The Ringer NBA Show - Media Day Highlights: The Houston Experiment, the Knicks’ Expectations, and the Pelicans’ Playoffs Excitement | The Mismatch

Episode Date: October 1, 2019

Basketball is (almost) back! The guys discuss the most intriguing quotes from all 30 NBA teams’ media days, on topics such as the James Harden–Russell Westbrook dynamic in Houston, the return of Kristaps Porzingis, the hype around Zion Williamson, LeBron’s late-career trajectory, and much more. Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Varnie. And joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'O. Bomber, aka Kevin O'Conflict, aka Kevin O'C., Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'C., Andyland. Kevin O'canceled. Kevin. Verdo. It's that time of year, baby. We got basketball.

We got Media Day. We did have Media Day. And we are going to go through 10 things that stood out from Media Day as these teams have collected and are now about to start training camp and then the preseason. In addition to that, we now know that there are three weeks until the regular season begins. But let's dive right into it. media day roundup, 10 things that I noticed from the media days that have taken place over the course of the last couple of days. Number one, Russell Westbrook has said Houston will be scary, not scary for them.

But then that got all the headlines, Kevin. But much more importantly, Tim McMahon from ESPN reported that he also said he has retired next question. And that he is in a new place in his life. Are we going to get the kinder, gentler changed Russell Westbrook this year? I mean, everything is relative, though, isn't it, Chris? A kinder Russell Westbrook still may be a meaner person to media members than 75% of everybody else. It's all relative. However, maybe he just hasn't yet found his new Barry Trammell in Houston to next question.

Maybe he's looking for that person and he's going to find them. I mean, look, I don't want to bust him up too bad, but Oklahoma City enabled that his entire career. And you can pull that off in a smaller market, right? Like when you're in a smaller market, you can pull off media rules different than you can when you are in a bigger market. And Houston's obviously a lot bigger market, a lot more tension than Oklahoma City. But in the end, it's like, all right, how many people and how many people on a big national level are we really upsetting if on a day-to-day basis, he just continues this act of next question and not being cooperative? And so this is going to be a little bit different, right? Like, I've always thought that stuff would not work.

I mean, listen, you can't pull that off in New York City. You can't pull it off in Boston. They'd kill you in Philly over it. and it would just be too hard on the management of the team and the public relations directors for that matter. But in Oklahoma City, the media does not have the same level of power there to affect public perception, right? And so this is going to be interesting to see how it plays out. And we'll see if he acts differently than he did during his time. Let's go back to the one that made the headlines, which is this is going to be scary. You and

I have both talked about this. I have said, I see very little in between on this. I think it's either going to work famously, and maybe not at the very beginning, but it's either going to work and it is going to be absolutely devastating and a real problem, as Darrell Morey suggests, for the Western Conference, or this isn't going to work and it's not going to mix. I mean, we have seen stars that have been put together, and it ends up working out great. We've seen stars that have been put together, and it doesn't work. These are both guys that are used to the ball in their hands, have exceptionally high usage rates,

and so how does it look when they are together? What is your inclination? Give me a percentage chance. It is as devastating as we could imagine with those two on the same team. Well, with Houston, I'm mostly interested in seeing how it develops over the course of the season. There's going to be an adjustment,

as you would expect, for any two-star players joining forces, especially when they play essentially the same position. So I think it's how it develops over the course of the season that we can make a fair playoff projection. And that's ultimately all that matters for this team is getting over that hump in the postseason. I do think what I'm going to be watching for once Russell Westbrook does play in the preseason is how does his game change?

Because I talked to Mike D'Antony a couple weeks ago for an article that we ended up pushing probably during the season. And I'm not sure if what he said by that point will be relevant. So, like, I guess I'll just say it now, but I asked them straight up with Russell Westberg. He's a guy that's jacked up deep mid-range jumpers early in the clock his entire career. Is there anything that you have to do with your preferred style of play to change his game? And what Dan Tony pretty much said to me is that you try to get him to the rim more often because of the way the rockets have the floor spaced. And that's something that Dan Tony said is on him to make happen, where those driving lanes are there,

where there's no reason for him to have to pull up from two. However, he doesn't, he doesn't and he won't try to drastically change Russell Westbrook's game. And I think that is unsurprising because it was similar with Chris Paul. With Chris Paul, another guy who took a ton of pull at mid-range jumpers. He took fewer of them with Houston and his two years there, but he still took more of them comparatively to other players on that team, including Hardin himself.

So with Westbrook, I'm just going to be curious. to know how many of those deep twos are coming with like 16 seconds left in the shot clock when it's obvious a three-pointer or layup is preferred whereas how many of them become late in the clock because that's the big difference with me with Russ evolving and not only that though Chris is with Russ he's not going to have the ball in his hands nearly as much as he did obviously playing alongside James Harden so I know it was reported by somebody over the weekend during a rocket's practice that Westbrook spent a lot of time a lot of time just practicing and taking corner threes.

So for Westbrook, I hope, and I have hope that this is finally the systematic change that he needs, whereas he does start taking less poor shots

early in the clock, and he finally just takes on an off ball roll. Because imagine Westbrook, Chris, where he can spot up, hit threes at an above average rate off the catch,

and then attack a rotating defense and just throw down for Ocho Stunks. It could be great. It could be great if these guys accept their roles. It is interesting too because what is the role? You know, Westbrook was the sidekick to Durant. And I mean, listen, Kevin won an MVP playing on the same team as Russell Westbrook and had a lot of unbelievable seasons.

That being said, he moved on and Westbrook became the man and won the MVP himself playing for Oklahoma City. The one Hardin should have won if we're being totally real. But that's a debate for two years ago. Yeah, that's a debate for two years ago. We've already been through that. Here's the thing. They're down by one to the Portland Trailblazers with 14 seconds left to go

and they're inbounding it under their own basket and now they're about to walk up the court. That's the moment, right? And we'll see how it all flushes out, but there has been no question whose ball that is for Houston for the last several seasons, right? No question.

Yeah. That ball is in James Harden's. There has also been no question in Oklahoma City for the last few seasons. Even, I mean, I guess he conceded to Paul George some last year, but generally that's the Russell Westbrook moment. And so what happens now? What happens now when, you know, it's a game on the line stuff? Who's the guy?

And you know that they're, I mean, listen, Houston fans spent the last three years slandering Russell Westbrook. So, I mean, the first side that he is, you know, messing something up or that James Arden isn't having the same season as he has the last few years, they'll be ready to pounce him, right? Yeah. Because, yeah, no doubt about that. It's already deep in their souls.

They've made Russell Westbrook arguments for the last three years about how much better Arden is. Well, he is. He is better. He is better than Westbrook. But, like, that's what makes this so compelling, though, because Westbrook is not as good off ball as Hardin is. And yet, Chris Paul, who is better off ball than Russell Westbrook, he didn't have the ball on his hand.

It still wasn't the type of thing where those two seemed like they maximized each other when they were on the floor together. And they were still great individually. Hardin obviously put up historic numbers. Chris Paul put up good numbers without Hardin. But when they were together, they still produced. They still had a potent offense, obviously. But I felt like there was always something more for those teams to give. in terms of the creativity of their offense. I think one of the criticisms you've had,

and a lot of people have had of Houston, is they get stale sometimes, just running pick and roll and isolations over and over and over. I would love to see Mike D. and Tony start to integrate some more guard, guard actions, whether it's Westbrook as part of a double high screen screening for James Hardin or vice versa, just the amount of creative things you could have

with Westbrook rolling down the lane. You know what I mean? I think I want to see some stuff like that where Houston does a bit more other than what works because the pick and roll works, the isolations work. They have historic level offenses and a historic level star level player and James Hardin. But I think they need a bit more variety in their offense. And that's where Dan Tony has sort of evaded a bit of blame over the last two years. And I'm not sure how much blame he deserves because they lost to an incredible team twice.

but I would like to see a bit more variety develop over the course of the 10 months and we'll see. I mean, well, and you know what he'll probably do, which is James will go to the bench and Russ gets to go be Russ. Yeah, but when they're together though, you know, when they're together. No, no, no, but I'm saying when he's not on the court, the same way that you were calling out Chris Paul's numbers

without Harden on the floor. And of course, some of those are against second units. I mean, Russell Westbrook is going to destroy second units. Oh, yeah. All by his lonesome. You know what I mean? Watch that. One more thing about it's going to be.

Houston, though, when I did talk to Mike last month, he did say something which was interesting in the sense that for him, he says James and Russell Westbrook want to play together. It was something he reiterated a couple of times where that's sort of the difference here where these guys want to play together. And James Hardin and Chris Paul did not. He did not say that last part, but we know that Paul and Hardin did not want to play together. So the fact that these guys have a desire to play together and a desire to excel together, hopefully for Houston that bodes well. We got a bunch of these to get to number two.

Chris Stavs Porzengis. Oh, yeah. The expectations for himself are high, wants a defensive player of the year. He wants to win the MVP. He wants to be an all-star, on and on. He says all these type of things. Rick Carlisle said, if everything goes well,

we will see him in one of these first two preseason games. And to wit, Christas Porzengis says he feels better than he ever has. What are our expectations for Porzingis? I'm actually going to Dallas tomorrow for a Mavericks story. So I'm looking forward to my first Dallas trip. And I think my expectations for this team, Chris, are very, very, very high.

Will they be a playoff team in this loaded West? No, probably not. But I'm intrigued more than maybe not anything else in the league. But it's like in my top five things that I'm most intrigued by. moving forward, like, how do these guys enhance each other? We've never seen Chris Stapps play with a teammate like Luca Donchich, and we've now, obviously, in the last season, never seen Luca with somebody as skilled as Chris Staps.

And one of the problems Chris Taps had with New York, I remember a couple of weeks before he tore his ACL, I wrote an article about, can Chris Taps carry the nix on his shoulders or something like that was the headline? And it listed every single injury that he's had since before he was in the NBA. And with Chris Stapps, how much of that is due to wear and tear, where he did have a lot of burden on that offense and he did have to carry so much on both ends of the floor? And how much of that is that alleviated now, which does allow him to stay not only healthy, but potent

over the course of the season. Because every year he had a decline from the first 10 to 15 games over the next 20, and then he declined again over the next 20, and then he would undoubtedly get hurt at some point. So does that help him stay healthy? or is he just one of those guys who gets hurt? And for Dallas, hopefully it is the former where having a guy like Luca who can handle the ball more often

and create easier shots for Chris Staps not only makes poor things as a better player but allows him to stay healthy because these two guys together, their games complement each other perfectly, perfectly. If they're able to continue developing on the same upward trend they seemed to be the last time we saw them play.

So for them to be together now, this could be a team that maybe doesn't make the playoffs, but becomes a team that you're like, oh, they're next. They're the next team that's going to be a contingent for a long time. That's what they could become this year. Well, and the last time we saw him, he was playing 32 minutes a game, averaging 23 points and 6.6 rebounds along with an assist. And that was his third season.

And like you said, he's played 72 games, 66 games. And then that last one, we only saw him in 48 games. it looked like a guy who was on a trajectory to, I mean, let's be on a superstardom, you know, like that this is, you know, he is on a trajectory to being a real superstar in this league. And because he was a great defender too. He was averaging, you know, two and a half blocks a game. And there was a real problem on that end. And so what did this lost year do?

He says he feels 100%. He looks great. He looks so good. I mean, he's obviously packed on a lot of muscle. He looks really good, man. We saw that he was on the way. When we last saw him, it's easy to forget about these guys, but when we last saw him, he was on the way to superstard him.

Now, I know he was playing for a very, very bad team putting up those numbers, but to your point, he's not playing with the best teammate he's ever played with. So this is going to be very, very interesting. And nice to hear that we are going to get to see him in one of the first two preseason games. Number three, speaking of. seeing him in the preseason. Marco Fultz says, yeah,

he is going to play in the preseason opener against San Antonio on Friday. At least that is his expectation. We know that in his few years in the NBA, we have only seen him in 33 games. He had the joint issue with the shoulder, and then he had another shoulder condition that is very hard to understand,

but it all ended when he was double. That's a really nice way to say that. Chris. Yeah, here's what we know. He was double clutching a free throw against, I think it was the heat. And it all looked a mess. There have been, there have been video surfacing of Fultz playing. There have been videos surfacing of his new shooting form.

And he is one that certainly will captivate us because it wasn't so long ago. He was drafted number one overall. It has been the most bizarre two years, mysterious two years, where You know, I always say this, like, the general order of things is a guy gets injured, a guy gets diagnosed, a guy rehabs the injury, the guy comes back from injury. None of those timelines have been applicable when it comes to Markle Fultz, right? Like, it's always like, like, we don't even get, like, the diagnosis part takes forever, and then you don't know what the rehab and recovery is. and then there is no like timeline on coming back. So at least we have some form of definite when he says,

hey, the expectation is that I'm going to be playing in this preseason game, this first preseason game. And so for the first time in a long time, we have a Mark L. Fultz is going to be playing basketball. And so hopefully it is the end of what has been just an incredibly mysterious first two seasons in the NBA that has shown us only 33 games of basketball. I have nothing to add other than that. I just hope he buys into with or without a jumper.

I hope he just buys into being like a Sean Livingston type because he still has the savvy in the pick and roll. He still has the defensive upside with his size and length and his rebounding ability to do all the things that gave Livingston a successful career despite not having a three-point shot. I hope Fultz is able to at least be a competent, above average mid-range shooter. Obviously, you hope for more than that,

but he's still going to be a success even without a reliable three-pointer. I'm hopeful for him in that sense. I'm excited to see him play. Yeah. I am. I hope it's not a disappointment, and it very well could be. Yep.

All right. Number four. Jim Boylan, the head coach of the Chicago Bulls says, quote, our goal is to make the playoffs every day we will prepare like we are a playoff team and work like we are a playoff team. Now, this could be just kind of, you know, whatever. There's going to be a bunch of coaches that say something similar.

But the reason it stood out to me is because, you know, the first thing that the coach says is we expect to be a playoff team or where our goal is to be a playoff team. What are the chances that Bulls are a playoff team this year? I mean, it feels funny to say, but they're in the Eastern Conference and they have some young talent. Like, what if Lowry Marketing makes a bit of a leap, right? What if Zach Levine is even better than last season? What if Otto Porter gets a little bit better? It's not impossible.

I don't think so either. I'm glad we're on the same page. Yeah, I don't think it's impossible that they, I like some of their, I like some of their offseason moves for sure. I did. I think they've got some good players that they have added to the mix. and who takes the leap, right? Does Lori Marketing become an all-star in the East? Zach Levine?

You know, does he take another step in the right direction? Otto Porter played great for them. At the end, we both loved Wendell Carter coming out of the draft, and his season was cut short last year. And so in the Eastern Conference, anybody that says, hey, we expect to be a playoff team? I don't know. I just don't roll my eyes at it,

except for the Hornets and calves. Oh, I roll my eyes at that for sure. Yeah, and Nick's probably too. But like then Bulls, hawks, magic,

that next group, that group really like is fighting for that eight seed, I think. Well, listen, I love Daddy is Young. I love Satteransky. I thought that was a really good signing.

Yeah. You got to have Satiransky. We both like Denzel Valentine. Got to, we're on the, what is it, the pebble. Yeah, the pebble. Hey, Kobe White and Daniel Gafford both looked really good in Summer League, if that means anything.

I'm not the biggest Kobe White fan. I like Kobe White. I'm rooting for him. He's a great kid. But I am just going to be interested to see how his raw skills develop. I liked Gafford. I thought he looked good. He certainly looked.

It just looked like people missed on him. You know what I mean? A lot of young guys, though. And that's ultimately where, you know, this team, maybe fight. for the eight seat in the east, but that would end up being like fighting for the 14 spot in the West. That's fair. And they've got,

you know, they've already got, they've already got health issues. Yeah. All right. Number five, the Knicks argued that their offseason was a success. Steve Mills had one of the weird quotes in Media Day.

Let me hear this out because he said, you'll have to talk to the decisions. And this is defending what they did. talking about, you know, free agency and how it was a fluid process and, you know, they got the guys they wanted to get and building the way they want to build. He said, you have to talk to all those players about why they made the decisions that they made, but there were a lot of max type players that we could have met with that were interested in coming here.

We had a certain way we wanted to build this team, and this is how we chose to build it. What is he talking about? Who are the max type players that wanted to go there? is he talking about Chris Middleton, Tobias Harris? Yeah, might be those types. It could be. Really? But, but, but they'd rather be, wait, wait, wait,

they'd rather be with the Knicks than be with Philadelphia and Milwaukee? I don't know. I'm just saying like those might be the types he's talking about. But I do think ultimately, look, I feel like a fool defending the Nix. But the fact is, is that they were successful in that they signed short-term deals and they did not overpay for a big, name just to pay for a bigger name and to say they got somebody. In that sense, what was out of...

You buy this? No, no. I have like something afterwards, but like... Okay. What was out of their control was the choice of Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. That was their plan A. It didn't work out. That was something out of their control. And I think what they did is not bad because they retained flexibility moving forward. They have a lot of nice young players. We've been through this before. Go up and down the roster from Frank Nilakina to RJ Barrett to Kevin Knox to Mitchell Robinson. have some young talent that is also going to be cheap and appealing in 2021.

However, where they sort of messed up was I think some of those additional contracts like a Taj Gibson, where they could have absorbed money and got an asset instead. That was a mistake. But I think overall, if I'm a Knicks fan, I'm thinking, okay, right now at least they're taking a future forward look at this roster and trying to build for the future rather than just making a big move to get a positive headline or positive review. But ultimately, whether that matters or not, over these next two years, Chris, it comes down to, I think, James Dolan just taking a backseat here, just taking a back seat and really not making the calls, not really

trying to rush anything, allowing the front office to remain patient. I was at a show at Madison Square Garden on Saturday night. I saw Wolfpack. I bought a water bottle for like six bucks Chris, which is ridiculous. And they took the cap. I don't know why. Because they're afraid of someone throwing it on stage. I don't know. They took the cap.

And I asked why. And she said to me, you're going to have to talk to James Dolan. And ultimately, Dolan can't be the one. Every arena. I know, but ultimately, it can't be the one where Dolan's making decisions on this team or in the concessions.

It needs to be people who are making smarter choices. That's all I'm saying. She's joking. Every arena does that. Not every arena does. Yes, they do. They don't do it in your media seats. By the way, by the way, when I was there for Tame Impala, last month, the guy gave me the

cap. And he gave it to me, like, almost like he was getting smuggling drugs. He's like, here you go. He's like, take it, take it. So just saying. Look, here's what I know. I tip him a buck afterwards. You can be nice about this, but Steve Mills got up there and tried to sell everybody that they

didn't want game changing players. and that instead they wanted to sign a bunch of guys on short-term deals. Yeah, because they want the big fish in 2021. That is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard in my life. How? You're telling me that they had great players in the league, and they said, oh, you know what? I know we haven't signed a great player in forever,

but this time around, we wanted to just sign a bunch of guys on short-term deals. Yes. Because why would we want one of the great players in the league, who actually wanted to be here. Stop. Look, I don't know what player he's talking about, but I do know this, that if I'm building the Knicks,

I want to enter the 2021 summer with the following, R.J. Barrett, Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson, and the following first round picks, 2020, 2020, and the MAVs 2021, all still on their rookie deals. That's what I want to enter 2021 with.

And I want over these next two years for your image to be totally changed of what your team is with David Fisdala's head coach, with young players who are getting better, and two max slots. That's what I want to enter 20, 21 with, and that's what they can do.

It's just a matter of what else happens. Do they screw something up? Do they make a short-sighted decision? I don't know. Like, we'll find out. We'll find out. But I think what they did this summer as at least an indication

that they want to enter that summer as being the team, the team in a loaded free agent class that can sign two guys, to a team with a load of young players. Here's what I'm saying. That can be flipped. That can be flipped or kept.

Kevin, that's fine. But you cannot sell me that that was the plan. I was selling me. No. Plan A was Katie and Kyrie. It wasn't the plan. And that's not what he's saying. And that's not what he's saying. The truth is, of course, they wanted the great players to come there.

And so this was plan B. They had to settle. But don't sell me on this is what we wanted to do. Stop. it's fine and maybe this will end up being the better course maybe it will be right but you can't sell me that this is everybody always forgets this you do this everybody does this with new york every time around this is going to be the summer no this is going to be the summer no now it's twenty twenty one is going to be we've been doing this for two decades for god's sake and now you

and now oh what i want is to have max you wanted max money for This summer. That's what everything was leading towards. The big free agency, they're going to have the slots. They're going to go to New York. They're going to get K.D. and Kyrie. They're at least going to get one of them. Maybe they get Jimmy Butler.

Maybe they get DeAngelo Russell. Maybe they get Kimball Walker. Maybe they get whoever it may be, right? And then they end up with Bobby Portis and Julius Randall and Todd Gibson and these guys. That's fine. But to stand up there and act as if this is what we wanted to happen is goofy. That's goofy. I hope it works out for them.

Listen, I love Knicks fans. I really do. I love Knicks fans. They're long-suffering, and they deserve to have a great team. And I love it when there's a great team in New York. But everybody knows that it was a disappointment the way free agency went. You can't change that now. Well, you know what?

Like people say that all the time. People say the Clippers will never sign a superstar player. People said the Celtics have never signed a free agent until they do. And for New York, you could be damn right that 2021. When did they though? When did they, Kevin? But 2020. When did those teams sign them?

When they're good. Yes. That's when they sign them. Yeah. But what I'm saying is, the lesson is great players don't sign with bad teams unless it's LeBron who needs to go make space jam. Yeah. Or a player going to a big market, which New York is.

And the point is, is that they could be, they could be an appealing team in two years if they don't fuck it up over the next two years. It's on the Knicks not to screw this up because they do have what could theoretically be appealing on an appealing roster with two max slots and loads of flexibility in 2021, which has a loaded freaking class. It could be one of the best classes ever in free agency. And so the point is that all you can do is control what you can control. That's true in life. that's true when you run a sports team. And for the Knicks, as long as they don't screw it up over the next two years, they can enter that summer and hopefully for their own sake be appealing.

I don't know if they will be. Maybe RJ Barrett stinks. Maybe Kevin Knox doesn't get better. Maybe they screw up on those picks. I don't know. But the fact is, is that on paper, they could be one of the most appealing destinations in 2021. That's all. All they have to do is win games.

That's it. It's not about hope. It's not about, oh, By the way, like, dude, they're going to compete, man. They're not going to win a lot of games, but they have a lot of competitive players on this roster. Guys who play hard. And so, like, in a sense, they're doing what you're saying they need to do is compete and win. I mean, Julius Randall, guys like that and Bobby Portis and Marcus Morris and Taj Gibson,

a lot of guys who grind and play hard. RJ Barrett, like, I don't know if these guys are going to be good, but they're going to compete at least. No, that's where players want to go because it is the lesson of last year's Clippers, where people would say, oh, they should just tank and oh, they should just try to get a high draft pick. What's the ceiling on this team? But there were superstar players that looked at that place and they said, geez, if I went there, I could really vault them into something better. And then it came up, you know, all aces.

Because not only did they land one superstar player, they landed two. I think Knicks are trying to follow the same game plan. It's just a matter if they screw it up or not. We'll see. Hey, and you know what? In fairness, it's what the Clippers had. They had a bunch of dogs on that team.

They had a bunch of dogs. Stars know you get on a team like that, those guys will do the dirty work. And those guys are willing to be role players, right? When you get a bunch of bulldogs, it's perfect to surround yourself with. And so the Knicks just need, you know, four or five of those guys to come through and be that way.

All right, let's move on to number six. Jimmy Butler, I'm not the asshole. Everybody thinks I am. I'm hearing that one for the first time. You know, I think Jimmy Butler, maybe I'm a load of this. I love Jimmy Butler. Me too. I think he is a absolute bonafide winner.

and I want that guy on my team. And when push comes to shove and it matters most, that guy is there. At the end of those playoff games, when Ben Simmons is, you know, when witness protection and Joe L. Embed is not the guy that you're just throwing the ball to and getting a bucket, though we did have some big playoff buckets. Jimmy Butler, it felt in many of those games, it was Jimmy Butler versus the Raptors for the last two, three minutes of the game, and he damn near beat him.

And so I'm super high on Jimmy Butler. I'd want him on my team, no matter the team. And I don't know, it's not like things went great in Minnesota once the guy left and things certainly went well in Philadelphia. They were a miracle shot away from maybe being in the finals, maybe even winning a title this year, certainly given, you know, what, you know, you never know how it's all played. out, but given the injuries that the Warriors had, they might have had a crack at it last year

at winning the title. Same way Toronto went and won the title. And so anyways, I don't know. I know he says that. And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe most people think he's an A-hole. But I don't think he's an A-hole. I don't.

He hasn't struck me as that. Like, I think I'd have fun hanging out with Jimmy Butler. Yeah, definitely. I mean, unless he wants to get out of Minnesota, you know, that's maybe the only situation. but with Butler also like, who cares? Who cares if you're an A-Hill? I think he's a hard-nosed, tough player. And like, I want, sometimes I want an A-Hole on my team when you're trying to beat an opponent in the playoffs.

I think it's okay to be an A-hole if you're Jimmy Butler. I think teammates like him. I think he was talking about as a person. And Bede went up. Embed at his media day called him a brother. He loves Jimmy Butler. teammates love Jimmy Butler. He's a good teammate.

He's a guy that you can win with. Yeah, the only ones at that, don't like him or Towns and Wiggins, so you tell me. I love Cat. I'm rooting for him. I know you do. I do. Number seven, David Griffin.

We're trying to win basketball games and beat people's asses. But we are young enough that we might not be able to deliver every day. But we do need to be getting better every day. They didn't put us on national TV 30 times so that we could take a beating. Very interesting. I think, you know, they've made it clear. The Pelicans keep on saying that they want to win now, right? I think if teams are on different trajectories,

and you would think for a team that made the move that they made moving off of Anthony Davis, and they got Zion Williamson, number one, they had a great draft, Zion Williamson, Nikiel Alexander Walker, Jackson Hayes looked much farther along. When it came to Summer League, they went and signed some vets, and then they made the deal, and they got Ingram and Lonzo and Josh Hart, etc. But I think that it's like, is the expectation to win a lot now. And I thought it was fascinating that he brought up. We know they are national TV, not because of the amount of success that they have had,

but because they've got Zion Williamson. Zion Williamson is now a big ticket draw and a big television draw. But they want to win right now. What are the chances that they win a lot now? I could see this team being pretty damn good this year. I do. I look up and down their roster. You know, I always say, like, line up all their guys on the roster and who do you want?

I'll be damned if I don't want, like, almost all of them. You know what I mean? On my team. Like, I don't know how many guys are on that Pelicans team that you don't think are good. And, you know, I always say, how many guys on your team do you think suck? and how many minutes do those guys that suck get? And it's hard to envision that there's anybody that sucks that's getting minutes for the Pelicans.

Yeah, the man, they get a fun team. They get a really fun team. And I think the people that put together the schedule at the NBA offices did an amazing job putting Pelicans on national TV for two reasons. First, everything you said that this team is going to be competitive. And I think they're going to be a fun team to watch with their fast, high-paced style of play under Elfell. and Gentry with Zion and Ingram and Lonzo, this is going to be a fun competitive team.

But not only that, to the NBA, it's time to start pushing some of these young guys who are going to be the faces of the league in a post-Lebron world. And Zion, I mean, we'll see if he's able to reach those heights as a player, but he's a guy that at least has the lane to get there just because of already the following that he has on the internet, the amount of respect there is for him as a young player in the league. and the amount of potential that he has is like a really good player and a good person off the court too. I think Zion is somebody that the league should be pushing moving forward. And a lot of those national TV games are early in the season as well when maybe at some point they'll be out of the playoff race late in March and April.

But early on, they're going to be a really, really tough out, I think. And I'm excited to watch New Orleans. What do you think? Do you think it's holiday Reddick, Ingram, Zion, favors. Starting five? Yeah, something like that. All right.

Well, I mean, look, if that's your starting five, you're bringing off the bench, Lonzo Ball, you're bringing off the bench, Josh Hart, Nikil Alexander Walker, Etouan Moore, Etouin, Moore, Ocalfour. Or Jackson Hayes, I mean, like they have Kenrich Williams, who was really productive for them last season, just a good all-around guy.

Like, they have a lot of talent, dude. I'm not sure they're a postseason team in the West, but only because it's the West. And the East, we're talking about them as like a three, four, five seed in the East. There's certainly one of those that we could look up and we could say, hey, the Kings look like they're onto something. You know what I mean? Last year where it's like, that's the season that you're on the cusp of breaking through. And then you are a playoff team for five to ten years.

You know what I mean? Like you're a team that we just pencil in every year. It may not be this year and then it may be next year that they take the leap. but Lord knows we're going to see them on TV quite a bit. There's actually another Pelicans one because they had such a funny one. Is this Reddick? Is this Reddick? J.J. Reddick.

Look, man, don't F this up for me. It's what he said. Do Zion Williamson because I did not realize this. I had forgotten this interesting stat. J.J. Redick 13 for 13. Unbelievable. In his career in making the playoffs. Zion Williamson, don't F this up for me.

So that moves He at least gets a mark on the list That's something that particularly stood out But I will include that in number seven Because number eight I will make the injuries Okay so We have Clay Thompson

At least till the All-Star break We have John Wall It did not sound like The expectation was to see him this season Same goes with Kevin Durant Paul George said a November return target And then the most interesting

of all of these was Ola Depot, who said when I say I'm coming back better than ever, I'm not just saying it because it sounds good. I truly believe it. And Nate McMillan, when asked about Ola Depot and his return, said he will be out

a while. There's no timetable. So I don't even know what that means. What does a while mean? It's weird because the other day there was some report, or I think a quote from somebody. It might have been McMillan who said it looks like he never left when he's practicing

on the court. So it's confusing here. A lot of mixed messaging on when exactly he'll be back, how healthy he is right now. I think Sabonis called him 80%. It was Subonis. That's where it was. Sabonis said it looked like he never left. Sorry, not McMillan.

So Sabonis said that. So I think it's understandable that the coach is going to downplay it and that the players are going to talk it up. I'm just hoping that he gets back and he's able to stay healthy because what we last saw man was a guy who was still getting better. And for Indiana, they're one of those kind of sleeper teams in the Eastern Conference that if Oladipo does get back and he gets better,

if Miles Turner makes a leap like we talked about last week, maybe this team, you know, they enter that conversation in the Eastern Conference. I don't know. I hope O'ODepo can get back. You and me, too. But anyways, yeah,

That was an interesting one because we'll just have to wait and see when Ola Depot gets back. Number nine, this was an interesting one because this was a great team last year, the Nuggets. We know that they are pretty well set at their starting lineup, at least according to Mike Malone, their coach, Jamal Murray and Gary Harris in the back court, Paul Millsap and Nicolioch in the front court, and Malone said there will be an open competition for the small forward position. Will Barton, Tori Craig, Michael Porter Jr., Wancho Hernan Gomez, four names that he mentioned as who could be the starting small forward for the Denver Nuggets. Who comes out on top in that?

I mean, I think I say Barton, right? Will Barton is going to get minutes. I think it's just a matter of who the other guys are. Is it possible that Michael Porter Jr. could be starting for the Nuggets? look man Michael Porter if you're talking about we didn't mention him last week in regards to swing players in the NBA

Michael Porter if he's able to become the guy that can at least hit spot up threes for you and attack closeouts and defend multiple positions as a rookie if he can at least do that never mind like go to scoring ability Nuggets suddenly I think become a team more probable to come out of the West because just having that guy at 610

with that versatility changes their whole dynamic and gives them so many more things that they can do in the court. Because like right now, so much of their offense is Yokic and Murray, either Yokch running a pick and roll with Murray screening or somebody else screening or Murray running a pick and roll with Yokic screening. And that works and it's great. But imagine that if you can have a six foot 10 guy in addition to Yokic, another big

guy who can screen and pop for threes or roll or handle the ball, that makes them more and more dynamic. So I hope it's Porter. I do. I'm not confident because of his health issues, but I hope it's broader. That would be crazy because, I mean, it's actually a great spot. It is. Because you don't have to be anything but a role player within that context, right? I mean, you're getting points and you'll get your rebounds, but like,

those other four guys, they got to take care of with Murray and Harris and Millsap and Yolkich. So you just got to fit in at the beginning. Right? You just got to fit in. You're not expected to go out there. You don't need to be the Starix ball forward and be getting me 15 points a game. You don't have to,

which may be why Torrey Craig ends up winning it, because Barton is a bucket off the bench. Yeah. We know that. And so it's nice to have him, especially when they throw him and Beasley at you. Oh, boy. Coming off the bench,

I mean, that can be super devastating. I love Bullick Beasley. I love that. You might just want a role player, even though you might just want, you know, Tori Craig to be the fit there because you just want somebody that's not going to take a lot of shots to keep the ball moving,

play defense hustle, you know, all that crap. Everybody needs role players in their lineups. I'm excited to see Porter Jr. I was so excited to see him that first night at Summer League and then the night before he got injured. Hopefully he was ridiculous. That was ridiculous.

All right, number 10, and we are going to get to do this one and then play off it on an article that you have out at the ringer.com. If we aren't playing through Anthony Davis while he is on the floor, then it makes no sense because he's that great. That is LeBron James talking about passing the torch and being, you know, that Anthony Davis is the guy. And we should be playing through Anthony Davis.

What are the chances that the Lakers. actually are playing through Anthony Davis. Anthony Davis leads them in shot attempts. Anthony Davis is the guy. I mean, I could see it happening. But LeBron, you're going to play through LeBron and Anthony Davis. I think when it comes to AD, I said this last week or some other week, but I think he's weirdly been underrated entering this season.

He was not last year, but the year before that, a legitimate MVP candidate on what was not a great, team and Anthony Davis now will have LeBron James by his side and a really good supporting cast. So for AD, the one element of his game that really manifested recently was the playmaking ability. And I think he's a good passer. I think he makes good decisions on the floor. And so it makes sense that you're going to play through him more often. And I think that skill is going to be actually recognized more nationally now that perhaps it was

before when he was just in New Orleans. Pelicans fans know how good he was. as a playmaker. So maybe we will get to see that more often with LeBron James, AD pick and rolls, or maybe the inverted version of that with AD handling and LeBron setting a screen. I think it makes sense to do some of that within their offense. But ultimately, though, Chris, you know this.

Everybody knows this. LeBron knows this. He's still the guy running the offense. All right. Well, now let's get into what you wrote about LeBron coming into this season, you know, setting the table for the next three years. with AD and how LeBron can change his legacy while playing alongside Anthony Davis for the next couple of years.

Yeah. So I wrote an article about how after Michael Jordan retired in 1993 and then he came back, he had his first playoff embarrassment, losing to the magic. People were saying it looked like he lost the step. There was a lot of people saying Hakeem was now the best player in the league. and then Jordan, of course, went on a revenge tour with three straight titles, two more MVPs,

and became the greatest player, undisputedly of all time. And that summer before that run started, he worked his ass off and he filmed Space Jam. And LeBron, similar. You know, he did not retire, but he had his most disappointing season last year with the Lakers. There's talk now that he is not the best player in the league.

He was not ranked number one for the first time on ESPN or Sports Illustrated player rankings entering the year. He suffered his first major injury last season, and there's actually for the first time, like there was for Jordan, doubt about whether LeBron is the best player in the league, doubt about whether he can now lead a finals contender at his age. And it just so happened that he spent the summer working hard,

recharging his body, and filming Space Jam 2. So the parallels for Michael Jordan at a time in his career when he faced doubt, he rose to the occasion above and beyond when he didn't have to finding new reasons for motivation and winning three more titles and getting two more MVP's. We're at the point now where with LeBron, we're about to find out.

We're going to find out if this guy is going to have another run late in his career now with, in my opinion, the best player he's ever played with, at least at this point of their career, and Anthony Davis, with a good supporting cast. the upside is there for the Lakers to do some really incredible things over the next couple seasons. And if LeBron does, then that Jordan-Lebron conversation, even for the people who say it's Jordan,

it's going to change, it's going to shift. But we don't know because the reasons for doubt are real with his age, with the injuries. So I'm just fascinated by the idea that there are all those parallels at this point in their careers and that now LeBron has a chance to do what Jordan did and have more. success in his mid-30s. We'll see. Well, it's interesting because if we have seen LeBron play in and win his last finals, it is of no consequence.

I mean, the conversation doesn't exist. But if he does, and him and AD run off some, then, yeah, maybe you would have a different deal. I will tell you that over the course of the next several months, though, that Jordan stuff's going to come back full steam. because that, what is it, 20 part, 10 part, whatever, 10 part documentary. Oh, yeah. The 30 for 30 that they're doing.

And so you are going to have Jordan exposed and all those old films and all those old highlights and the whole basketball world is going to be tuned into that. And you are going to get for, you know, that is usually a younger man's argument, right? Because LeBron's their guy, just like Jordan was my age group's guy. And so we scoff at anybody talking about. But for a younger generation, that thing's going to come back full steam with that documentary. Because everybody's going to watch that and they're going to see those games and they're going to witness those accomplishments and hear people talk about him. And he will be back on center stage as he has not been in many, many, many, many years.

No doubt about it. And by the way, I'm looking forward to that doc series. Oh, it's going to be the best. It's going to be great. And you're right, though. it is really going to inspire people to have this debate more often, especially if the Lakers are awesome. And they will be awesome if AD and LeBron stay healthy.

To me, it's that simple. I think their supporting cast has been a bit underrated. I think they got enough good shooters on this roster to surround LeBron and AD. I think they have good veterans like a Jared Dudley, the shooters, Danny Green, Avery Bradley, who is a better shooter than he gets credit for. Quinn Cook, they have the young guy and Kyle Kuzmo. who can maybe take a leap. They have a really good supporting castes around AD and LeBron.

It's up to those guys. If LeBron stays healthy, if 80 stays healthy, how awesome this team could be. They could be by mid-year when that doc drops the finals favorite. All right. A couple very quick hits, just the things that I did not mention through the course of our 10 things that we noticed from Media Day.

Joel M.B. says he lost 20 pounds. So Mike get the best in shape, Indeed we've had Jalen Brown chopped off the flat top. You know, that was kind of synonymous with him. I think he looks sharp. He was the only one, though, that had that big flat top. And that's gone. And we got the new Jalen Brown.

Shaquille O'Neill, at the time of recording, we have not heard the response from Damien Lillard. I know. But Shaquille O'Neill, he had a disc track for Damian Lillard amongst the lines taking on the young cats. He said some of my baby mamas make more than you. He also said, you don't have to hurry. You will never be Westbrook.

You will never be Curry. I like the students always talk about they better than the professor. I'm an expensive Lamborghini. You are barely charged Tesla. I also loved when he said the, you know, holler at me when you get it back to back to back. Why would I want to be a rapper when rappers want to be Shaq? It was great. Listen,

Demi Lillard is, we will see how much he impresses, but you're in a very, very dicey situation here. It is always dicey to get into a rap battle, even if you are the better rapper with somebody that is more successful,

has more money, has more championships, and is funnier than you. Right? Like you are, I mean, amongst the guys that you don't want to do it, because it's very hard

if you take the, like, push a tea and I'm going to say the meanest things I could possibly say route, then everybody's not going to like you because it's like, dude, you take yourself way too seriously. If you try to go the accomplishments route, you can't win that one, right?

Because you're battling with the guy that's got MVP's and titles and money and all kinds. I mean, I think you're in a dicey spot. Even if you are a great rapper or lyricist, it's very, very difficult for you to fight uphill. And when you've got somebody that is such a good entertainer, that's funny, that's got the money, that's got the, you know,

he's got the accomplishments on you. You know, you take so much off the table that you can brag about in disc tracks, you know? And he kind of unloaded all of them. And his whole putting that video out with the puppet, he's been a great entertainer for over 20 years now. So good.

And also, like, he produces and, is Diesel. Yes. Electronics. He's live. He has like a serious following at festivals and everything. Yes.

And he's just fun. He's fun. He's always been fun. And so I think you're in a dicey spot. I know that Dames taking this very seriously. I saw his responses to people on Twitter. So we will see what the response is. I can't wait to hear it either.

I love, I love that Shaq and Damien Lillard are in the rap battle. It's the best thing ever. the best thing ever. Well, we only have three weeks until the season is, the regular season is going to be upon us. Appreciate everybody for listening to another edition of The Mismatch. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes. Five stars, five stars.

It really helps. Kevin, I will talk to you next week. Hey, Chris, I'm looking forward to it, man. Every Tuesday's fun with you. And one last note, I just wanted to also wish my parents a happy 30th wedding anniversary. It takes a special day for us, so we're looking forward to celebrating that together. Happy anniversary to your parents. I also, we do have one more thing real quick.

You're in New York City. I told you you had to go see Dear Evan Hansen. I got you a ticket for Dear Evan Hansen so that you could go. Don't mention it. I wanted my friend to be able to go see this. You had not been to a Broadway show before. I had the opportunity to go see it a year ago. on Broadway.

And I saw Hamilton actually that same weekend. I do, I love musicals. I love Broadway shows. But I have thought about Dear Evan Hanson probably more than any movie I have seen in years. Like it just has stuck with me in a way that a lot of media that I take in has not. And I thought it was absolutely fantastic. I did talk to you after you went to see it. You loved it too, right?

Yeah, thank you, Chris, for not only, you know, getting me the ticket, but for giving me the nudge to go because I was looking for something to do in the afternoon, but after my meeting in the morning. And with that show, man, it's not only funny and entertaining, and it's the type of thing that, like, you might leave that theater with, like, crying, but it's also the type of play experience that is emotionally complex and tugs you in different directions at once. and it's really hard to pull off the story that they pulled off, which is really deep, but also really entertaining at the same time. And that's something that if you're in New York, go see Deere Evan Hanson. It's a really great show.

You know what? There's probably a lot of people that are listening to us. I bet they didn't expect a musical review or recommendation, but there are a lot of people that are listening to us that it's touring in their cities. because I know it's coming to Memphis like in maybe next week. I mean, it's touring everywhere. People can go see it in Chicago.

They can see it. You don't have to be in New York anymore. I mean, it won the Tony for Best Musical a year ago. And so now it is touring all over the country. So if you see it coming to your city, you should check it out for sure. Oh, and one last thing. Speaking of Memphis, guess who's coming here at the beginning of the week? Who we got?

And you said you're going to Dallas? how is Jonathan Charks coming to visit me before you? Wow. Me and Charks are going to go have a great time. Enjoy Dallas. We'll be hanging out with Jared Jackson and John Moran. You hang out with Chris Daps and Luca. All right.

Kevin, I'll talk to you next week. Thanks, brother. Have a good one, Chris.