The Ringer NBA Show - Michael Porter Jr.’s Injuries and Kevin Knox’s Rise. Plus: Ringer Fans on the Grizzlies, Magic, and Bulls | Draft Class (Ep. 290)

Episode Date: June 15, 2018

The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor, Jonathan Tjarks, and Danny Chau discuss the puzzling news surrounding Michael Porter Jr.’s injuries (1:08) and the potential rise of former Kentucky forward Kevin Knox (7:26). Then, they bring on resident Memphis Grizzlies fan Chris Vernon (15:31), resident Orlando Magic fan Kevin Clark (32:09), and resident Chicago Bulls fan Tommy Alter (43:43) to discuss their respective teams' draft possibilities. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Kevin O'Connor and this is Draft Class, calling in from Dallas, Texas, as he does every week. It's Ringer staff writer, Jonathan Charks. What's up, guys? It's almost here. I'm excited. Draft time. We're one week away. We're recording this on a Thursday. Y'all will hear it on a Friday. That's why I'm especially excited to welcome back from his one week hiatus. It's Ringer's popular writer Danny Chow. My voice is back, so let's go. I'm ready for this. Draft class is produced by Isaac Lee. As always, Isaac, we've got some special. Special guest lined up today, don't we? Yeah, we do. We have a Chicago Bulls fan, Tommy Alter, from the Ringer. We got Kevin Clark, Orlando Magic fan. Slow Newsday.

And The Ringer NBA show's very own, Chris Vernon. Yes, my best friend, Chris Vernon. Kevin's better half. Yeah, we sure do act like a married couple every Tuesday on the Ringerer MBA show. That's for sure. Anyway, guys, let's do it. So Michael Porter appears to be on the rise, even though last night I reported that he canceled his Friday workout in Chicago.

the sons, Knicks, Kings, Grizzlies, and maybe a couple other teams drafting in the lottery were supposed to attend that. But as draft expresses, Jonathan Gavoni reported this morning, that workout was actually canceled because Porter's hip is allegedly strained. So there's some type of issue that may have caused that workout to be canceled. But then Yahoo, Sham Sharania followed up that he went underwent an MRI and he's fine and that workout could be rescheduled.

But John, there's only a week to go until the draft, man. What do you make of Porter's rise despite this reported strained hip that he had that prevented him of getting out of bed? It's hard to know. It's just hard to know because there's so much noise right now. But if it is a smokescreen, saying the guy is hurt after back surgery is a pretty good smoke screen to get people off him. That's what's going on here.

I'm here for that. I'm also here to salute Mark Barbelstein Porter's agent right now. I feel like this is incredible. The guy's coming off of a serious back injury. now we're reporting that he has maybe a hip injury and simultaneously he's climbing the boards. This is legendary work right now. Bartolstein is one of the most active agents in the NBA

and probably one of the best for sure too considering the amount of money he's got for his players. So I think for him it's interesting because there is a report that Chandler Hutchinson from Boise State got promised. There's a report that Kevin Herder, his other client got promised. Jeremy Wu reported that yesterday from Sports Illustrated.

Also worth pointing out, Hutchson got promised apparently by the Bulls, we think. And so the Bulls also at 7 can get Porter. So maybe they bump both those guys. And the funny thing is, Charks, is that with the Porter connection, Sam Amick reported yesterday that he may have a strong connection with the Kings, which we've talked about on this podcast before. Maybe the Grizzlies where we have him going in the Ringers' updated mock drafts at four.

I don't know. I mean, it certainly does seem like he's rising. I think as we talked about last week, Jonathan, his go-to scoring ability certainly has appeal. I'm not quite as high on him for a number of reasons that we discussed before, but do you think that there is some logic to him being drafted second or fourth in this year's draft class? I mean, there's definitely some logic. If you look at the way the game is going, Porter's 6'10, he can shoot, he's got some handles, he can play on the perimeter, maybe even be a small five at some point.

And, I mean, it makes sense. He was considered the top prospect before he got injured. So if you think he's 100% healthy and you loved him before, I mean, there are obviously concerns either way, but people did like him a lot before he was hurt. So it doesn't, it isn't crazy he could go that high if people think he's 100% healthy. So I have a question. Considering his back injury, considering this potential hip injury, is this on par with the job Dion Waiters agent did in 2012, where basically they canceled an entire month's worth of workouts to allow Dionne Waiters to just eat chips for about a month while he was just raking.

in all of these promises from like every single lottery team imaginable. Where does this rank? I think it's pretty high up there because of the fact that as you mentioned earlier, he missed basically the entire season with the back injury, which is a serious thing. I mean, any back injury is serious, which is why the hip is interesting because the hip is connected to the back and oftentimes hip hip, hip injuries and back injuries are connected to each other. The hip bone is connected to the back bone. Yes. There you go. Yes. So it's certainly fascinating, but Putting aside, Bartolstein, I do think Michael Porter, the player, as Jonathan just mentioned, is intriguing because of the nature of today's game, because of the fact go-to-scoring is the

hardest skill to find. Like last year with Jason Tatum, that's why I think he was really hit early for Boston, never mind the situation. But with Michael Porter, he has that scoring skill. I'm not a sold on him. I'm not sure his ball handling is at the level that needs to be for him to be a great go-to-scorer, but he's still just a kid. He'll be a rookie this coming season.

and these teams that saw him in a workout, it's conceivable that in that workout behind closed doors, his ball handling looks significantly better and he might have been killing it. It doesn't matter if he's going against air, going against a chair, going against nobody. It doesn't make a difference. If the ball handling is tight,

that's what unleashes his scoring ability, which is there. It's real, Danny. I don't know, man. We've heard about the chair before. We know what the chair can do, you know? So I'm also not too sole. on it, but yeah, as we've been talking about, like, this guy was an elite talent coming out of high school.

And he had, I mean, he has some of the most tape you can get out of a guy who basically only has his high school as his resume. Yeah, he played in international tournaments. Like, he's been pretty, he was pretty well scattered before college. I can see from his point of view, too, why he'd want to go to Chicago. That's a nice situation for a young player. They got a good young core, big market, high-profile franchise. it would make sense to try to get him there if you were his age

and I could see that too. The question really is is if he makes it there though because of Sacramento at 2 and then Memphis at 4 I do wonder if he falls that far if I'm Sacramento like they are open or trading down

I do wonder this is a conspiracy theory that just came to mind but I'm here for it so if Sacramento if Sacramento had had planned to trade down to get Porter theoretically maybe you put

that out there that like work out It's canceled. You know, maybe there's some promise from Memphis or Dallas or whoever. I'm just saying because you want Sacramento to be forced to draft him in the second spot. Because of the financial implications of him earning less money if he's in the fifth or sixth spot getting drafted. It's similar to like Gordon Hayward last year with Bartlestein who would not take any little bit of a pay cut at all for Hayward, despite his deal being in a $200 million range because of the fact that he's going to get the most for his clients. That's what he's always done, and he probably always will do.

I remember when he got Joe Ingle's, what, $54 million by like waving Hayward in front of Utah? I mean, that guy is a good agent for sure. I mean, this is becoming like the Mark Bartlesy and praise podcast, but he gets his dudes paid. Very smart guy, and it's going to be very intriguing to see what happens with Michael Porter. And the other interesting guy on the rise is Kentucky forward Kevin Knox. Actually, fairly similar mold as Michael Porter, six foot eight, long arms, athletic, younger than Porter, about a year younger. And right now in the ringers updated 2018,

knock draft, we have him going seventh to the Bulls. And the reason why I put him there in the mock is because I would have had Porter there, but we have Porter going fourth to Memphis. And I've heard there's interest from Chicago at seven, Knicks at nine, and Kevin Knox. He seems to be on the rise at this point in the draft. Danny, you're not as high on him as I am. Charks, you have him at 15th.

What is it about Knox that has you holding back? because I'll explain why afterwards, but I'm starting to feel a lot better about him as the draft approaches. There isn't one skill that I'm like, okay, this guy can go in the NBA right away and he could provide this. I think he's an interesting prospect.

He has a lot of the same pros and cons as a guy like Michael Porter. He seems kind of more like a rhythm player with the ball in his hands. I wonder if situation is going to be key for him. He's going to need a spot that's going to give him the freedom to kind of do a little bit of

what he's been able to do in the past. I don't know if he's really that great of a spot-up shooter. You mentioned how he's not going to be able to contribute right away. When I first heard about him potentially rising into the mid-lottery, the person said to me, he's like, think about teams that don't need somebody to make an impact right away, where they can be patient. And Charks, you have him 15th, which was at the moment higher than both me and Danny. What is the appeal of Knox?

I mean, I think, A, he kind of fits the mold of like your small ball four. He's six, nine, kind of got a good frame, seven foot wingspan. The thing with him, with a lot of Kentucky guys, is you wonder, would he look better in a different situation? So I talked about before in this podcast. Kentucky was really put together poorly this season. And Knox was pretty much their only consistent three-point shooter on their entire roster. And so they pretty much use him as a shooting guard at six foot nine. So that was probably not the best use of his skills.

And so you wander in a more open NBA game, would he look better than he did in college? especially starting how young he still is. So we're looking at kind of like the Tray Lyle's conundrum of a guy playing kind of out of position. Yeah. Usually around this time of year, it's like I try to reset everything. Like all my draft takes, I try to reset and look back at guys. And with Harris, my thoughts are he's 18.

He's going to be one of the youngest guys in the draft. You mean Knox, right? Who's Harris? Who does I say? Harris. You said Harris. You said Harris in mind. Oh, okay.

Well, I mean, that brings us right into our next point. My original thought was he seems like a Tobias Harris type of player maybe at his best. But that's where I'm reconsidering where he is so young and he is so fluid as a score with his size at 6 foot 9 with a near 7 foot wingspan.

He's shown defensive ability. He's shown the ability to shoot off the dribble. I think that's one reason why his percentages are a little bit lower. His shot selection isn't great. It takes a lot of mid-range jumpers that really frustrate me

watching film of him. But maybe in the right system, similar to Tatum last year where maybe in one situation, Tatum's still jacking up all these mid-range jumpers, and like, we're looking at him, like, oh, he's just another de Rosen. But because he went to Boston, he's in a situation where, like,

no, you're not shooting mid-range jumpers. If Knox falls into a good situation, maybe he develops into that guy who is forced to take threes, gets the mid-range jumpers out of his diet, and so much of it has to do with situations. I can see it. Here's what I wonder about that. Like, with Knox.

So, like, if he goes to Chicago, would you put Lari at four and him at three? I'd be interesting to see how that would work. That's a really big front court where the way the league is moving. It's a lot of size, not a terrible amount of speed. It's big and you can do different things. You could put knocks at the four because he's a pretty solid rebounder. He's not great.

Lari Markner would need to carry a lot of the load, but you could do that for some stints during the game, I think. Like Lari at five, knocks at four. Yeah, why not? Yeah, I mean, it'd be interesting. Yeah, like, I wonder about his engagement on defense. Maybe that's just a college thing. We've seen that in the past with the guys like Ben Simmons who were just kind of like disengaged. And then they get into the league.

they find the right system and suddenly everything changes. Right now, while watching him, I see him have these off-scoring nights and I'm like, well, if he's not scoring, how is he going to help this team? How is he going to help his team? And he might not early on because again, like just a solid rebound or not a great one. It depends on how much he's buying into defense. It depends on the situation. That's why a team for like Chicago or a team like New York or even, you know, go down the line to a team that's not really pushing for the playoffs now, maybe you can deal with him not producing early. because you know the reward comes later.

That's always tough. Yeah, I think I'd want more in New York than Chicago if I was his agent. Like playing with KP to be really, because that would actually work long term. KP at the five, him at the four. That'd be pretty interesting front court. The Knicks are really interesting. I've heard a couple of contrasting things about them. There's been a lot of noise for weeks that they love Trey Young and Trey Young loves them.

But this week, I've heard some stuff about maybe they aren't drafting a point guard there. I'm not sure if they have other plans to get a point guard or maybe. Maybe they feel more comfortable with Frankie nicotine. Moody A. Maybe if it's Moody and Danny. I mean, I don't know. But it seems to me that they might be thinking about, you know, a Knox or Miles Bridges or Michael Porter, if he were to fall in line, which I don't think he is. It seems to me that they're thinking about a forward there more so than a guard, like a Sexton or a Young or whoever.

This goes back to kind of the theme of the past several months in that the way the league is going, you're obviously going to want these guys who can play. a perimeter offense, but also be guys who can guard on the inside and kind of be these combo forward. So obviously, you know, a guy like Kevin Knox, guy like Miles Bridgers, makes a lot of sense next to Chris Thompson, next to Tim Hardaway, Jr. And who else is on this roster? Frank, yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure how much is going to stick with this roster moving forward.

Right. Aside from Chris Daps and Frank. I mean, I think the big question is Frank. Like, can Frank be the point guard or is he better off the ball? That's kind of like the big question hanging out of this whole franchise right now. To me, it's like Frankie Nicotine is both. He can play off ball and he can play on ball. I think with today's offenses, you have multiple ball handlers and Nillikina would be one of them.

I'm not sure he's your primary guy. Maybe you need to find that guy. But he can be one of them, I think. I think he's a good pastor. Well, that's what I'm saying. Is he your primary guy or not? That's the question. I kind of want to see him actually have that chance, though, to start off.

You know, he doesn't be the primary guy? Yeah. When you say primary, do you mean a guy that's like bringing the ball up to court every time? Because I look at it sometimes like you have multiple guys bring their ball up. Multiple guys initiating the offense. Well, it's just like if he's playing with Trey or Sexton, he's not the primary ball handler. Those guys are primary ball handlers, right? Right.

So if he's playing with like Knox and K.P, he's the primary ball handler. Or so what you're saying is they should actually get his doppelganger in Shy Gilders-Alexander and have both of them. Oh, my guy. Yeah, bring the ball up the floor. I would be totally down for that. I love that guy. But even, and I know this is going to sound really dumb, but is Stefan Curry even the primary ball handler of Golden State?

You have Kevin Durant initiating offense a lot. Draymond Green does it a ton bringing the ball up in transition. Sean Livingston oftentimes. Okay, but who on the Knicks are you trusting to do that? Yeah, none of those guys are on the Knicks. So maybe it was. Maybe it's just like a semantics argument about who the quote-unquote primary ball handler is. But I guess to answer your original question charts,

I don't know if Frankie Nicotine is the primary guy I would lean towards no that you need more of a dominant force but Nilakina can certainly do it in spurts if you get a versatile guy like a Tray Young type who can play off ball I think that's a really really strong fit on the offensive on the floor because of Malikina's ability

I remember thinking he's like a better version of George Hill last year I feel like he's like a plus George Hill I feel like that's probably but maybe he's better than that I don't know now we have from the rear NBA show but best friends Chris Vernon, aka Chris Verne O'Donis. How you doing, Chris?

Oh, this is so amazing. I am a loyal listener to draft class, and so to be able to be a guest on this show. We are KOC's better half, so we're happy to have you on. We are like a married couple, aren't we, Chris? That is exactly what it's like. Can you ever find anything that agree on, especially this year?

It's been Marvin Bagley, the guy that you love on the draft, the guy I'm not quite as high on, even though I have him ranks six. He's good. Seems to be that he could be going number two to Sacramento, Chris, which could mean that he won't be on the board for you. Number four for the Memphis Grizzlies. How are you feeling with that pick right now?

Well, obviously, it bothers me. I think that I think he could probably go two or three. And for the first time last week, someone brought up to me when I said, you know, it was somebody within the league and I said, God, I hope Bagley is at four. But I think Sacramento is going to take him. And they said, are you sure Porter won't go to? And I was like, what? And then, of course, you saw over the course of the last week his name really pick

steam, I suppose, until today when he canceled his workout that the Grizzlies and many other teams were, I believe, was only going to be lottery teams, were going to be involved in, which was going to be this, quote, physically taxing workout that he was going to do. And so Porter is such a wild card here that I'm not so sure. I mean, I don't think as of today, and we are now a week away from the draft, I don't think that if you said, write down the top five picks in order how it will be selected, I would not feel confident in anything past number one. I think it's going to be that type of year where all these mock drafts that everybody's consuming,

eating them up. People love mock drafts. But on draft night, this could one trade, just one trade in the top five could shake up everything. It could start the domino effects. And you also see, and you know that I've been, I've been attempting, I'm putting together this list of guys that I'm not saying they're going to be the best guys, but what I am saying is guys that I believe are 100

percent. When's that list dropping? Just so like we know, I'm looking for it. Chris, I look for it every day. It will be completed this weekend, so hopefully early next week. Hell yes. And hopefully, I have petitioned, I told Chris Ryan, I am no writer, but I'll give

you this, and if you can edit it enough, feel free, run it on the ring or wherever you want to. Yeah, we'll totally put it on the draft guide. Yes, absolutely. Okay, so. The fans have been clamoring for that. So I'm putting together these guys, and what I'm going to do is I'm just going to put together the will not fail list, right? I love it. And the hardest part of that is dealing with these last couple of weeks and attempting to cancel out the noise.

Because what happens, and we're in it right now, and you guys are obviously doing a show talking about the draft every week, all the news, for the most part, is positive. You hear about Jared Jackson, he killed this workout in Phoenix and Wendell Carter's now working. out for the Kings and people are really high on Michael Porter. Now, so that's a perfect example, right? Michael Porter and what's happened over the course of the last, I don't know, two weeks. Okay, so I said this long ago on our NBA show, Kevin, that I start with the draft, no disrespect to the ringers mock draft or anybody that does mock drafts. I start with those and then I say, okay, my starting point is this is wrong.

we're going to go look back and it's going to look silly. I mean, you're absolutely right. That's exactly what my drafts are. Almost every year. Yes. But I also know I'm not standing on some kind of high mountain saying, and I'm the only one that knows. Virno Damos knows.

But what I am saying is I am only attempting to find sure things because what we're going to do is we're going to look back at those. We're going to go, that pick was stupid, that pick was stupid. And the hardest part of all of this is, is for me to remember that, remember that while I'm hearing good things about this guy, bad things about this guy, but honestly, mostly good things. You can't find anybody that will say anything bad about the top six or seven guys in this draft.

And yet we know one of them's going to suck. One of them might be a journey man. One of them, you never know. And so like, let's just say the Porter thing, okay? all the group think told us across the board he's eight around there everybody had him in the back half of the top ten right okay well now as of last week someone said to me are you sure he couldn't go to and you have seen in virtually every mock draft he has moved way up again no disrespect to mock draft everybody's doing the same i don't know if that's totally true though but kevin nothing has happened with michael porter but like week of the lottery I heard that the Kings had interest in Porter. Maybe not too, but maybe in a trade down. Yeah, maybe in a trade down.

But what I'm saying is, if we're looking at these mocks, we're already arguing. We're already arguing. Michael Porter is moving up in all of the mocks. He hadn't done, he's done nothing except for one workout where he shot the ball and another that he was going to be a little, it was going to be more physically taxing, even though it was going to be against, I suppose, a very formidable check. of which he has canceled. Just one quick note, Chris, actually while recording Jonathan Gavoni of Draft Express

reported that their camp set out an update to teams that were supposed to attend that tomorrow and said, quote, Porter will be evaluated again tonight as on Thursday. So by the time you hear this on Friday, we'll know more. And if the doctor feels Michael is moving well enough to go through the medical evaluation tomorrow, then we are going to proceed with the evaluation at 3 p.m. Central Standard Time tomorrow. Okay, but here is the thing that I'm saying. And he's the back half of the top 10 on almost.

every list you could find. And now he's moved way up, which makes me go, geez, man, maybe he has been too low this whole time. And I have to keep in my head. The way that happens is because people talk to people, as do I, people they trust, of which they think that, like, you're hearing the high opinion. You're hearing the good things about the guy from whoever you may be talking to. And people are well-sourcedful at the league. And what I have to have in my head is these people are always wrong. Always. They're always wrong. So there is no difference between what Michael Porter was two weeks ago and what he is today. None. Absolutely none. No difference. And so have teams gotten his medical reports? Last week he took the physical

with the Chicago Bulls and they were going to distribute that out to certain teams. Yeah. From what I was told there is, there was more to come on. the medicals, that it was kind of like so far, so good, but whatever. But he's actually a good one because he's obviously been a huge topic recently because I live in a city where there's a ton of people that want Michael Porter to be the pick. You know, never had a super star. Yeah, never had a superstar really need a superstar. I will tell you, I would not do it.

And if the Grizzlies took him and, all right, let me do the three things. first of all, if they passed on him and he became a star, I would forgive them. If they took him and he got injured, I would never, ever forgive them for that, ever. And if... You're talking about a specific back injury that reaggravates his current injury. Yes. Like, not a freak injury. Oh, no, something that would be connected to.

Listen, Tiger Woods in 2014 had this same thing done. And there have been Steve Kerr had it done. I mean, there have been, now those guys had complications. That's not super super encouraging. Those guys are like their 40s. But it is what, but it is what, it is what Steve Kerr had done. It is what Tiger Woods had done. Dwight Howard had it before the 12, 13 season where he had his lowest rebounding total up to that point in his career.

I mean, I just. He was really bad when he came back. That's tough. Yeah, I'm petrified. Absolutely petrified. And for a team that cannot get it wrong. You can't get this wrong. And so to me, he is just not worth the risk.

The only thing that would be worth the risk would be somebody that I thought could end up being possibly a Hall of Famer if they reach their ceiling. And I don't really see that. It's actually a good parallel to the Embed thing, isn't it? My friend Gary Parrish from CBS wrote about this, and I had not thought about it before. The reason Joel Embed moved down on draft boards or didn't get drafted, number one, but it's because of injury concerns. And some people thought, at least Michael Porter going into the college season, most people thought he was going to be the number one pick in the draft.

He had won all of the high school accolades. You know, he had all the stuff going for. McDonald's All-American MVP, Gatorade player of the year, the whole nine. And so the injury concerns is why he is where he is on the board. So in retrospect, I mean, obviously the Embed thing has worked out. I just look at it. And we say it's worked out. he's played less than 100 games still.

I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I would forgive a franchise for passing on him, but if he got injured again, I would deem that unforgivable. And then if you took him and he become a big star, then I'd just say I was wrong. We're not doctors, though.

If we had the medical on our hands, we might not be able to even decipher what's actually happening. If the Grizzlies or any other team perceive that, you know what, this back injury is not going to be concerned over the rest of the players. bro, they signed Chandler Parsons, Kevin. Oh, I know.

So, don't play this card with me. Don't play this card with me. But maybe for Memphis. Hey, I know this. They ain't doctors. I mean, it might be bad doctors. Chris, I got a question for you. Yeah.

Do you care about fit with Gasol and Connolly? Do you describe the best player at four? Does it matter at all? I do in the sense, and I think this is actually the way they're going to go, is this is, this is, really a bigs and a guards top 10, right? There's very few in between. I think that's why you're seeing Knox move up these boards.

It's because he's a wing. But there's not that many guys. Like, in terms of fitting with, I think that they want somebody that is going to help them win games next year. That would be the hope. And if that can't be achieved, if you can't get,

like I think Bagley would help you win games next year. Jaron Jackson might not very much. I don't think he does. I mean, he plays Gasol's position, so it's tough. Yeah, it might be two years. Well, I mean, they'd play him at four. That's what they do. Should it be a factor, Chris?

A guy who can help immediately, or are you more worried about, you know, three years from now with Marcus Saul when he retires and Mike Conley is towards the end of his contract? Oh, no, I just want the best player. End of story. So regardless of he helps now or later? Yeah, I'm, yes, I am get the best guy. It's funny. My wife said to me this morning, I was telling her about some draft stuff. she couldn't care less, right?

And I said, you know, the draft's only a week away. And I said, you know, we got the number four pick. And she said, I know what pick. I was watching the lottery, blah, blah, blah, right? And she's like, I know all about the lottery. I said, oh, yeah. I said, well, who should they take? And their answer was they should take somebody good.

And that's a great answer. Hey, it's as simple as it gets. Take somebody good. I'm not so worried about it all the minutia and the discussion of how he fits and whatever. I want somebody good. And history will tell us that ain't as easy as you think it is. Very basic. Take somebody that's good.

And so that's what I hope they do. Chris, one other thing I wanted to ask you about, would you be open a train down from that spot of Bagley's not there and you don't perceive Porter as the guy, Jackson's too young? Would you be open to trading down and getting more assets, like going to eight or going to like 12 or 13 even from the Clippers? Yeah, it always depends on what you get, right? What did we talk about a couple of weeks ago? It was like, is it the Tobias?

12 and 13 and just let's just say the sweeteners, Patrick Beverly or something. You talk about grit and grind Patrick Beverly. And I'm giving up and I'm giving up four in Parsons. Yeah, sure, four in Parsons. Yeah, dump that contract to LA. I think I'd have to make sure I get who I want at 12 and 13. That's what I'd say. Do you have people on your radar at 12 and 13?

If you're giving me Beverly, I don't need his clone, Colin Sexton. But I am in love with Colin Sexton. So I would give anything to get in. He is one of those that I think this process. I just don't get it. I don't get it. Got to prove you can shoot. Yeah, listen, you know how many times I've covered guards that can't shoot

that have become all-star caliber level players? I mean, we just talked about this the other day on the NBA show. Shooting you can fix. And when you are now able to get into the gym, what I need is a hard worker. That kid is a hard worker. He's not smart. He's brilliant. It's like a constant 4.0 kid.

He plays every game like it's his last. He can jump out of the building. So he's got all the athleticism in the world. I mean, we just got to slow him down, learn how to play the NBA game. And then obviously you can go practice your shots, but does he have the kind of wherewithal that he's going to be in the gym all the time, you know, practicing and getting better. And he, to me, is wired exactly like that type of a kid.

And so I just, I don't get it. I don't get what people don't love about him, honestly. Verdo, I hope all your dreams come true on draft night. And I hope either Bagley at four, I hope they trade down and get Sexton and Miles Bridges type at 13. I know you guys just updated it last night. You have Jackson going three? We have Luca Donchrist going three right now. Oh, he ain't going on.

Order for Jackson five. You know what somebody brought up to me today for the first time? Was the Grizzlies trading up? Sonny Vakero brought this up to me. out of nowhere and said... Oh, nice name. Sunny Vicaro. I like it. Well, listen, I'm not just name-dropping like I was just talking. He was on my show. So I do know that Chris Wallace and Vladi Devach have a long relationship, right?

I don't know if Dave Yeager would threaten to run out into traffic if they traded two for four. But let's just say that they like Donchich, right? And the Grizzlies could get Bagley, but they need to get to two to get Bagley because if Bagley's there at three, at least. Atlanta's going to take him. So could you trade up to get to two while Sacramento still gets their guy, let's say it's Donchich, at four? And I was like, and that would be able, that's obviously how the Grizzlies could get up

to get a guy that they like in Bagley. It certainly seems like it's going to be active on draft night, Chris. You know what I said? You know what I said, Kev? I said, we'll give him Macklemore back. Hopefully one of these things happened for you, Chris, on draft night. Next Thursday night. Looking forward to it.

We'll be talking again. Chris, good talking you, man. Thank you for joining Draft Class. Thanks, guys. Next up, we're going to bring in our resident magic fan at the ringer.com, Kevin Clark, but first we're going to hear from our sponsors. Today's Ringer NBA show, Draft Class is brought to you by Sonos. I love My Sonos so much.

I have listened to Licky Lee's new album, So Sad, So Sexy. About probably 50 times already. And about 40 of those times has been on My Sonos Playbase, Home Theater, because I can do whatever I want in my room. I can watch TV while I'm listening to music. I can be cooking in the kitchen while listening to music. It has changed my music listening experience, my TV viewing experience because I can alternate between music and TV.

You can listen in different rooms in my apartment. I love it so much. It's my favorite thing. And Father's Day is coming up. And Sonos and Spotify have you covered? Go to fathersday.sonos.com and get a code for 15% off when you create a custom Spotify place. You can send to Dad.

Simply select your favorite artists in the year you were born, then do the same for your dad. And bam, Spotify will generate the perfect playlist to bridge the generation gap. Go to Fathersday.sonos.com and get 15% off when you create your playlist. The playlist generator expires June 17th in terms and conditions apply. Now back to draft class. We're back. We got Kevin Clark in studio, host of Slow News Day, NFL writer at the ringer.com, and the biggest magic fan that I know.

How deep is that list? It's one. So right now in the ringer's mock draft that was updated last night, Kevin, we have Mo Bamba going to the Magic with the six pick in the drafts. Right now the Magic are paying Bismagmiyamo $17 million. Vucevich 12.75. Got a couple other big men in their history. You know a guy by name Dwight Howard.

You feel good about drafting a big man. No. So I didn't think he was a fit for the magic until I read the draft guide on the ringer. dot com and it says here under minuses that he's only a theoretical shooter and i thought that this is a fit i've watched six years of the rebuild and it's just nothing but theoretical shooters that is a culture fit normally is there is there a guy that does stand out to you that's an actual fit though not just a theoretical fit besides bomba so there's a couple of things so first all broadly i just want to talk about how i view prospects because when the when the when the rebate

be able to first start it. And we knew we were going to mean the lottery. I was so excited that I would start scouting these prospects a year out. You would sort of look at the high school seniors because you know they'd be won and done. So you're looking at Nerlin's Noel. I remember even, you know, the Wiggins year, watching on a Wiggins tape because you didn't know what I was going to be, Carlin Anthony Towns. And now I just have disdain. It is beating me down. The draft process is beaten me down to where now I just hate all prospects because the magic have just drafted so many guys who haven't panned out that I am now his own yeah extremely negative about the entire draft process having said that if there's someone I'm talking myself into at six

it would probably be and I know this is controversial especially in this pod try you um because I think he's oh interesting I think he's exciting he's he feels a need I feel like exactly what you said we have say what you will about Bionbo who is absolutely a waste of space and a bad contract, but we have a lot of bigger bodies on the team to where maybe we start building up the back court. That's the way I would go. When we drafted Isaac last year, he's sort of a general forward. We have a lot of tweeners there. So I feel like if we're going to start building from somewhere, I'd love to see us start building the back court up a little bit. Yeah, Kevin, I'm curious. How do you feel about Isaac right now? Obviously, he was hurt most of the year.

So we played 30 games last year. Hard to get a gauge on it. He, you know, it was funny because as a journalist, when I view sort of off-season puff pieces, oh, the dolphins are going to get a lot from Devante Parker type thing. I'm always like, why is anybody writing this? This is terrible. Who does this serve? This is obviously not true. And then the other day, the Orlando Sentinel had a Jonathan Isaac as gaining muscle story.

Oh, yes. And I was just like, oh, hell yes. Just as a non-journalist, I was just like, oh, my God, yes. This story fucking rules. And so that's where I am with Jonathan Isaac now. I've just read one story that says he's getting beefy. He's putting on muscle. And now I'm just beside myself with excitement.

But I mean, his rookie year was a write-off, basically. Funny thing is, is like me, Danny and John, we each respectively like some of the guys on the Magic's roster. I loved His own. I love His own. You loved His own. You loved John loved Isaac. I thought they had a really good draft last year.

I really loved Isaac. I love a Wundoo. I think that's a very good kind of, modern way to build, you know, your wing, your forward depth. And yeah, I kind of agree. I think the magic are kind of faded to draft Tray Young. Well, it feels like they need a point card. They need a point guard, but also they need some excitement.

I know you're not supposed to draft for that kind of stuff, but like... They need to start. Just, can we please just score the basketball? Can we get some shooting? Not theoretical shooting? You're talking about actual shooting. A culture of theoretical shooters. You get a guy who's actually one of the three best shooters in the draft.

And I honestly don't care about defense as much because we got Cliffie coaching him up. That's what I was going to say. It sounds to me that you're not as worried about defense. You just want add some scoring, somebody who can help now and actually put this team in a position to where they can do something. One thing Orlando has is athletes. And I think that if you have a really, really good defensive coach, which I believe Steve Clifford to be, that you can take athletes and make them good defensively. And I feel like if Tray Young's liability, that's fine because we're going to be able to turn some of those guys into defensive stars. Isaac, Gordon, guys around.

Isaac, if Isaac showed anything last year was perimeter defense. Right. And so I feel like we can do that. By the way, I was just talking to Justin Barrier. No one calls Steve Clifford Cliffy, and I feel like that's a mistake. Did they call him Cliffy at Orlando?

No, no, no, no, no. I just started calling him Cliffy as soon as he was hired. Well, you might be a trendsetter. This is the ringer NBA show. I think they call him Cliff. I didn't call him Cliff. Which is kind of like, you know, the pop bud kind of thing. No, let's not do that.

Cliffy. Let's go Cliffy. I love Cliffy. I'm in. If he was a hockey player, it'd be Cliffy. Are you in, John? It sounds like Coach Nick saying, are you in? That's a deep cut for...

I don't know. I mean, get some good players and don't worry about the coach. What do you think about... What do you think about Aaron Gordon's contract? Kevin Max him out? Kevin looks very unhappy with him, John. Do I think he'll Mac... No, they're going to match anything that he gets.

Will someone go out and offer him the max? Probably, and then the magical match. I'm okay with that. I mean, at this point, we are so desperate for... Like, what's the difference? Keep a good player kind of thing. Any good player we just need to keep. We can't let the only player who's shown himself to be...

Can we agree that Aaron Gordon could be the fifth best player on a contender, fourth best player? I think he could be better than the fourth or fifth best. He's still only 22 years old. Yeah, I mean, Fornier is probably a bench shooter on a good team after that. Forney and Vouch could both play in the rotation for a championship team. But $30 million committed to both of them. I don't know. The large chunk of the cap, too, though.

I totally agree. And I think the biggest problem right now for the magic is that all of their contracts, we are locked in to a lot of those guys. Now, a lot of them aren't horrendous. Vouch is two more years at 12 each. Fornier is, I think he signed through 2020. And so, I mean, we, it's not like we've got these guys coming off the books anytime soon. Beambos signed for two more years. I wonder if he's going to pick up that 2020 option. I don't know.

That's 17 million. Next year around this time, that's going to be the conversation. Will Bismet be able to pick up a $17 million. $40.A is signed through 2021 at 17 per. With an option. Vouch is only signed through next year. And so we're going to have to start making tough decisions on who we want to be in our future.

Now, the good news is the magic have shown no upward mobility. So it's going to be very, very easy on some of these guys. Vouch does not make... If Vouch makes teams better than God help us. He won 25 games last year. As did Aaron Gordon.

Yes. And we won 25 games. The funny thing is Thank God They had those three pointers Otherwise what the hell would have happened last year The funny thing is Kevin is All these big contracts we're talking about

Come from that summer of 2016 For a couple of years It seemed like Orlando was on the rebuilding path Taking it slow And then suddenly They're like we gotta try to make a push for the playoffs They were pushing for mediocrity And that's what I'm going to happen

And you see all the signings that they made And you're just like Oh okay so they're gunning for the eight spot They were nowhere close to the eight spot No where close You know they had a guy who was pretty good in Victor Olipo and traded him away. That trade often gets overlooked.

Everybody talks about OKC, trading him in Indiana, but it's like, well, what about Orlando trading them to OKC? Well, what about beyond that, which is basically the assets that we gave up in that trade and also became Paul George. So we could have had, theoretically, obviously it's very different because George wouldn't have come. There's no reason to trade for him. It's a different timeline.

But there were different trades here. One of them involves keeping Victor Oladipa, one of them involves sending the assets we have and getting Paul George. We ended up with Surge. Baca, who then became Terrence Ross, who then became Terrence Ross and the 25th pick, which we then traded for a 2020 conditional pick to the Sixers. That is a protected first rounder and a second rounder, I believe. Now, Victor Ladevo was an all-MBA player.

Kevin, one thing I wonder, with a team like Orlando, would you rather take a guy who's more of a sure thing or you still want to take home run swings after being the lottery so long? Do you want boom-buss guys or like safer picks? I think the only way to change the culture at this point is land an absolute superstar, like a Donovan Mitchell type where we go, okay, we know what we are, we know who our guy is, let's start building. I think the more low-ceiling guys we get, the more we stay in this holding pattern. I just, we need something.

I mean, every time, so you have to think about the history of the magic, okay, John. So we're absolute dog shit expansion team, and then we get shack, and then we build it with Penny and then everybody else. And then we're an absolute dog shit, not a dog shit, but a fairly mediocre team, and then we get Team Mac and then we're back. Then we're absolutely terrible at the end of Doc Rivers tenure and then we hit on Dwight Howard and we built. Every single ebb and flow with Orlando

has started with the drafting or the acquisition of a superstar. Of a big superstar. Of a big man. Yeah, that's why it was so bad they didn't get the lottery this year. There's something the perfect year to move up to the top three. That was very unfortunate timing. I think with Mo Bamba, just to circle back to him, Kevin. Yes, he's just a theoretical shooter,

but he doesn't need the shooting to be an impact player in the NBA with his room protection ability, with his rim running potential, his mobility, potentially, as a defender. He's somebody who can anchor a defense long term. I do think that there is a boom upside with him if that shot comes, though. It's like he has a foundation, he has a floor, but then he has that ceiling if the shot develops, if he continues improving his footwork.

I think at number six, if he gets there, he should probably be at top of the list for Orlando, more so than Trey Young. Either, Trey Young, you know more about this than I do. either Trey Young or Bamba have a capability to be the best player on a contender in four years. I don't think either of them are the best player on a contender now.

I don't, but just from everything you've talked about in getting the magic out of this, I don't know, stasis that they're in. Trey Young is a guy... Yeah, Purgatory. Trey Young is a guy who, you put him on a team, you instantly have to reorient your team around him, and that in itself is kind of something that's interesting to me.

Kevin, last question for you. Let's say it's not Trey Young. Okay. Mo Baba's the pick. Yeah? Are you okay with it? Can you talk yourself at the Mo Baba? Well, at this point,

I've been so ludicrously wrong on everything. I mean, so was Rob Hennigan. But every time I'm excited. Hey, that's the director of insight and foresight. Director of Insight and Forsight. So I was more excited about Alfred Payton. than I was about Aaron Gordon. I was through the roof about

Mario Hosonia. Me too. Same. Yeah. Dead wrong. All of us. I mean, am I okay with it? Yeah. I truly believe that this front office,

Hammond and Weldman are much better basketball guys than Rob Hennigan. So I trust them to make a good pick. I think Steve Clifford will at least impart some defensive identity into the team. So I just, I do believe there's going to be an uphill climb here. And I think it starts this year. I'm happy we're going on on a positive note, Kevin.

Thank you for joining the show, man. Thanks for having me. Now we'll get Tommy Alter from the ringer.com in studio. Look at this. What's going on, Tommy? Can't believe I was finally invited on the show. Legend of the Flesh. Wow.

Took long enough. So you're from New York, you became a Bulls fan. How did that happen, Tommy? So I've been a fan of all Chicago sports teams since I was a kid. My family is all from Chicago. So I grew up going to Cubs games, Bears' games, Bulls games. And the Bulls have weirdly,

like obviously the Jordan years were a fun team to root for, but for most of my life have been a fun team to root for because they've always been sort of like an overachieving spunky team. The Lou All Dang.

Yeah. Yes. Kirk Heinrich coming back. I mean, Heinrich sort of became a joke. The great Eddie Curry. Yeah. No, but like obviously Derek, obviously Derek, but like Joaquin,

Nate Robinson, they were always the team that basically, Basically, they were sort of embodied by Tibido, and no matter what the talent was on the roster, they would always make the playoffs, and they would always lose to LeBron like everybody else, but they would make a run and they would make it interesting. They'd win like a couple games against LeBron. And now they're embodied by Fred Hoyberg. How are you feeling as a bull's fan, Tommy? It all went south.

I'll tell you exactly when it went south. Derek's last series in Chicago, where they lost to the Cavs in six games. Oh, yeah. The David Blatt series where I didn't draw the play up. The David Blatt series. And they went up in the series 2-1. Derek had a hit a buzzer-beater three. It was sort of like his last hurrah as a bull.

He hit this great sort of dramatic three to put them up two-one. Game four of that series. 2015, by the way. 2015. Game four of that series. They have LeBron on the ropes. A little bit similar, actually, to the Pacers series this year where he's on the ropes. You can see him sort of cracking a little bit.

And then he pulls a win in game four in Chicago sort of out of his ass where he gets this crazy buzzer-beater from the corner. And then the calves just take, like, that's it. They're broken. And they end up blowing the bulls out in game six in Chicago. And everyone's saying, okay, like, this is it for Tibido. There's been rumors. Tibado's been on the rocks with Foreman and Paxon.

And it's always been unclear, like, the power structure in Chicago, who's actually the boss. My sense is it's Paxon. And Foreman is just a, isn't sort of a nice patsy for them that kind of pin stuff on. but after that happened, Tibado, I think, lasted two more days and they fired him. And Hoyberg, who they've been rumored about hiring that entire season, there was sort of whispers about it,

they bring him on, and immediately everything goes to shit. The team goes to shit. Like, it just was everything that... Jimmy Ballard gets traded a year later. Jimmy Baller gets traded a year later, but that year was just miserable. No one's happy. The fans aren't happy. The team doesn't play hard. Everything that, like, Bulls fans got spoiled by,

which was like, maybe we won't win a championship, but they're going to be fun to watch, and they're at the very least going to sort of like try and give you bang for your buck. That all went away. And now we're here. And now we're here. Three years later after the Tom Tibido error,

42 wins, 41 wins, 27 wins, and they have Laurie Mark and as a centerpiece and the seventh pick in the draft. And a team that all they've been talking about us, like, you know what? We're going to be really bad, and then we're going to get a top three pick. And they can't even do that right.

Not bad enough. Can we bring up the Jordan Bell thing for a second? Absolutely. It's the floor is yours. Okay, can what do you guys explain? Is there any defense of this? No. So I want money, right?

Yeah, for the front office there is because it comes from ownership. If you're going to trade a pick and a draft that's the years. It's just like you're defending your own job. So you have to do with what your owner tells you. I would say that's the case for Gar-Pax in the front office. But to me, is that any, it's one of the more egregiously bad moves of the NBA over the last five years. My case, like, Jordan Bell is not a superstar. I mean trading a second round pick?

I don't know if it's top five. But this is my argument for it. I think that... You just sound miserable, Tommy. Well, this is... But everybody knew, everybody knew at the time because they traded, they sold him. Right. They traded him for cast.

There was no... Even the Isaiah, the Kyrie Isaiah trade, there was an argument in theory that this was like a good deal. It just ended up being a disaster. There was no argument for this being a good... Well, I remember that night, like, so when Jordan Bell was drafted by the Bulls, I was like, awesome. I'm like, they made a great pick.

And then, like, two minutes later, Woj or Shams or somebody reported that they dealt the pick for those maxed on 3.5 millions. To the Gold State Warriors of all teams. Selling it to the Warriors, yeah, like, no one do this anymore. The Warriors have enough good players. Like, let's just stop selling pitch the Warriors. I think this is going to happen with the Warriors again this year. They're going to buy another pick.

I don't know if it's going to be as good as Jordan, but that's their whole strategy. I heard, like, maybe another late first, but even, like, not even just a second. Yeah, they're going to buy some wing. They're going to buy some wing in, like, the end of the first round. And it's probably going to end up being really good. Seriously, PSA, the rest of the league, stop doing this. What are you doing?

Please. Don't help him out. Don't help him up. But Tommy, both have the seventh pick in the draft, and they failed at tanking, as you mentioned. But the seventh pick,

they're still in a position where they can get a quality player. Is there anybody who sticks out to you that's like a best fit next to Larry Market or a guy that you have a preference for? I think, I mean, I don't know whether he will be there. It sounds like he won't be.

I would love for them to pick Porter, even with the injury stuff. If he somehow ends up there, because that to me, with him, you're rolling the dice, and if the dice rolls in the right way, you get the guy that you tanked for, which is like the superstar game-changing talent who comes in and all of a sudden is.

Because in a perfect world, Lowry is like the second best player on a championship team. He's not the guy that's going to be, everyone loves doing the sort of baby dirt comparison, but that's sort of a pipe dream. Like he's the guy that if he's your, he can give you 24, 25 points a game, potentially down the road.

but you need someone else there who's creating their own shot at the end of the game. And Porter, I think, could be that guy. Realistically, they're going to end up with Wendell Carter. I don't see how they're just, it's just the perfect bull's sort of safe pick.

Tommy, I'm curious, what do you feel about Zavine and Dunn? How do you feel about those guys as your back court going forward? I mean, Levine's shooting numbers are a lot better than it gets credit for. And even in that trade, like, it's very clear Minnesota traded the wrong guy.

They should have traded Wiggins over Levine in the same deal. And they would have gotten, like, the deal would have happened. Yeah. And Levine would have been a much better fit on that team. That back court together is, I just think it's like a very clear work in progress. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if, like, Chris Dunn isn't even on the Bulls next year. Nothing at this point is just besides Lowry being there.

I think everything else is sort of up in the air. And the tough part for them at the seventh pick this year is, like, yeah, you can make an argument for Tray Young. I was going to ask you guys, what do you think about the Trey? Because there's been a lot of whispers about that. For the Bulls? about the balls and Trey Young. I mean, he can score, right, Danny?

Yeah, it's really just, like you were saying with Porter, the reason why you want to take a swing at 7 is because you want to get the guy who can be that type of star presence for the team. And so, Trey Young at his best,

that's kind of what you can see. You know, that first half of his college career was just like incredible. Yeah. But I don't know how they kind of make that fit. I mean, Dunn's big enough to guard.

two. So he's big enough to be a two. The guy's huge. But having the pieces kind of fit around that. And what's tricky about Dunn is he actually showed a lot of flashes last year, but I still don't think he has... Still in defense. Yeah, I don't think he has any trade value. So you're still selling super low on him. Right. And you'd want to give him like at least another year or so to... You mentioned two of the guys from the Jimmy Butler trade, Zach Levine and Chris Dunn. It's been a year now. Yeah. About since that happened. How are you feeling about that trade at this point? Can I bring up a worse trade than that trade? Because that trade was, that trade was, is, I love Jimmy.

I love Jimmy. I love Jimmy. Jimmy is like the ultimate, what I was talking about, guy that always balls out, always play hard. Yeah. I love Jimmy, but obviously Lowry's turned into a nice player and making the move to sort of blow it up, as Kevin loves to talk about. Blow it up! It makes sense. And it made sense for them because they were trending towards the four seed every year.

And that's just where they were going to be. The trade, 2014, do you guys know what I'm talking about? No. Doug McDermott Doug McDermott Doug McDermott to the Bulls. Oh, that was brutal, man. Doug McDermott to the Bulls for

pick 16 and 19, which turned into Yusuf Nerkich and Gary Harris. Yep. Now, you tell me if Yusuf Nurtich and Gary Harris would be like nice fits on the Bulls right now,

for Doug McDermott, who I don't even think should be in the NBA if it wasn't such a good college player. Can you name what team he's on currently? McDermott? Yes.

I mean, I would say the NICs, but is that wrong? I don't have no... It's wrong. You're wrong. Who is it? He plays from my Dallas Mavericks. Did not do much either.

He got traded to the Mavericks? Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. He shouldn't be in the NBA. Doug Mendermott's career, 2014-15 with the Bulls, 2015 with the Bulls. 2016, 17. Bulls, O.K.C.

2017-18. Nicks. And this is what... And this is what infuriates Bulls fans is, Gar-Forman has like these weird Iowa connections. He's from Iowa or something. I don't know what it is. The Iowa...

From Iowa. Doug McDermott. It's like they're like the Iowa They're like the Iowa team. And it's like if you have any connection, I'm amazed they didn't somehow end up with like Barnes. Like they just get these random... I mean, they could.

They could. They just get these random guys from Iowa. None of whom have like worked out at all. And everyone else, if you're not in this mold of like good college player like... Upper classmen. Yeah, upperclassman, quote unquote, like, nice kid or whatever. You're like dead to them. Which is just crazy because it's,

is not how you build a team in any sport. You don't do it based on weird like friendships and geographical location. You just take the best person. So it kind of sounds like the bulls are getting Mikhail Bridges from what you're saying. Probably the only have a precaution. I wouldn't be stunned.

I wouldn't be stunned. I just think Carter fits more with the Horford comparisons. I love the fitness of Lari with Carter. Yeah. But I also like Carter a lot more than... To be honest, I haven't watched enough Carter to really know. I just read the Horford things. and I'm like, well, Horford's pretty good.

That's a good way to do it, I think. Yeah, but if that ends up being the pick, like, people that I trust that have watched enough Carter think that it's safe and it's a, I'm not going to, I'm not going to go nuts. No, I don't. That's why I want Porter. Even if Porter is a bad back.

I think that the whole point of this draft was not to be safe. The whole point was to be sexy. To be sexy. Tommy, last question for you. Yeah. Porter's off the board at seven. Carter's off the board.

Right now we have Kevin Knox going seventh to the Bulls in our mock draft on the ringer's 2018 NBA draft guide. If that's what happens next Thursday night. If they get Kevin Knox. If they get Kevin Knox with a seventh pick in the drafts, what's your reaction?

I'm not going to be happy. You're reaching for a guy that you don't know. Michael Porter Jr. Might be, but he's also, you know he know nothing about. And the whole, I guess the whole point of going out of your way to take a year off,

was that you were just taking, you were going to be getting an impact player in the draft. And, like, Knox, to me, feels like, there's a guy like this from Kentucky every year who's like, he's like, oh, he's super, super highly rated recruit. He's talking about a fairly like a Tre Liles type.

He's like crazy athletic, da, da, da, da, and he doesn't do that much in college, but like he may be good, may not be good. I'd rather try young than Knox. Get a tank harder, Tommy. Got a tank harder. They do. You know what killed?

A couple things killed the Bulls. There was that weird stretch when Myrottich got back where they became the best team. And it was terrible. Oh, that was actually a good move they made, though. They got a second first round pick this year. For Nico.

They did some good stuff. That was a good pick. And I have a question for you guys before I go. For the Bulls, not this upcoming summer. What's the free agency thing that makes sense? Because they still are an attractive. The Bulls are, Chicago is an attractive place to play. The management system in place is not great.

But the city is an attractive place to play. And if Lowry keeps growing, you're going to have a good young play. or the team with. Like, I heard from somebody, I said this to you, Kevin. It's not going to happen, obviously. It's not realistic. But, like, Chicago is from all accounts

is maybe LeBron's favorite city to play in just as a purely as a city. And so, like, the Bulls are, they've tried and failed, and they're not getting LeBron this summer. It's not even... Yeah, Triedville twice. But they came close.

And part of that's because it's an attractive option for guys like that. And so, like, what's the 2020 plan for them? I mean, they're going to have a ton of cap space. That's right now they only have 8 million guaranteed money for the 2020 summer. That's a long ways away. But I do wonder if maybe you're Chicago, by that point, you're like,

Hey, think about-Chicago native, Anthony Davis. I think you got to go for AD. Go for Davis. Just go sell out for them. You got to think ahead. And if they were able to build an appealing franchise, a appealing roster by then, where if you're like AD or you're Janus and you're like,

huh, you add me to this team and like we make this one other move, suddenly the Chicago Bulls are contenders again. Are Janus and AD free agents the same year? I think AD is free in two years. Janus is in three, I think. Yeah. I have to double check. I got marketing Janus Davis.

That's the world. Quite a team. I'm going out on a high, Tommy. Space job, true young. Tommy, thank you so much for joining the show today. Thank you guys for having me. Well, that was fun, guys. Jonathan, thank you for joining the show.

As always, I'll see y'all in L.A. next week. It's draft season, baby. Yes. Come in here. We're going to do it in person with me, you think. Isaac. Thank you guys. Looking forward to next week.

All right, y'all. From here in beautiful, Los Angeles, thank you so much for this thing, the draft class. Please write the Ringer NBA show five stars on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcast. For extra credit, go check out the Ringer's 2018 NBA draft guide at NBADraft.com. We just updated the mock draft. Our rankings are going to be updated over the coming days. So check that out, please. Special shout-out to my friend Elon Musk, opening a new tunnel in Chicago,

so Michael Porter can get from the airport to the Bulls Arena very easily. Looking forward to him using that. that. Thank you so much for listening. Have a great weekend. Have fun. Peace out.