The Ringer NBA Show - Midsummer Mailbag: Luka Doncic vs. Ben Simmons, Harden’s All-Time SG Rank, and 2019 Breakout Candidates | Group Chat

Episode Date: August 22, 2019

We open up the mailbag in the dog days of August and field questions about dark-horse MVP candidates, James Harden’s usage, the 2019 Sixers, future All-Stars about to make a breakout, and more. Hosts: Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. NFL preseason is in full swing and the Ringer NFL show is now airing four shows each week covering the latest news stories, training camp updates, fantasy football advice, and more. On the site, Robert Mays, Kevin Clark, and Danny Kelly offer up their insight on the 2019 season as we inch closer to kick off. You can read their pieces on the ringer.com and you can listen and subscribe to the Ringer NFL show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Basketball is very good. Kevin Loonie is a max player The Lakers should hire Ernie Grunfeld Kauai should sign with the Warriors Basketball is very good Hello and welcome to group chat on the Ringer NBA show My name is Chris Ryan

I am joined by a game time decision Justin Verrier Flu game baby So happy to be sharing a close Not quite ventilated room with you Bobby is on the decks today We're doing a mailbag why are we doing a mailbag?

Not a lot's happening. We need to stop leading off every podcast with saying we have nothing to talk about. No, it's not that. It's not that. There's not a lot of events, you know? Sure. Like we've got some Fiba.

Listen, we're the event. Yeah, that's right. This discussion right here. This union of minds. So basically we outsourced the intellectual work of this podcast. We asked you the dear listeners to send us some of your questions and you did. And we really appreciate it because there's some really good ones in here.

And Luther legend bats leadoff here, the Ricky Henderson spot. And Luther just really in tune with the trending topics asks, why is Dwight so hated? He's not talking about Dwight's Fruit. He's talking about Dwight Howard. Why is Dwight so hated? He averaged damn good numbers last year as a washed player, three question marks. Several questions marks.

Urgent cue from Luther. Justin, why is Dwight so hated? And is he at this point underrated? Luther, my friend, how much time do you have here? I mean, at this point... Technically, it's a podcast. If you were Dan Carlin, you could answer this question for like nine hours. Sure. Well, first off, last year, he was not very good.

He only played nine games. And he had career lows and rebounds in minutes. So, I also had, I believe, a glute injury that sidelined him for most of the season. So I believe our friend Luther is... You got a fire in the glutes, right? We need a fact check on Luther Legend. So in 2017, 18, though, he played his one season with the Charlotte Hornets. he was particularly good.

16.6 points, 12.5 rebounds, 1.6 blocks. The problem was the Hornets themselves. Not very good. 36 win team. And if you're a starter on that team, I think you share some blame in that factor. The other part of it is, as we've seen multiple times now,

as he left the Hornets, everyone had shit to say about how Dwight was outside the court. I looked this up, the Charlotte Observer of the day after he got traded to the Brooklyn Nets who ultimately waived, him, I believe, and that's how he ended up signing with D.C. This is from Rick Brunel. Howard simply wouldn't run the play that was called, sometimes in key last-minute situations.

His screens were terrible. That was a quote. He had one notable clash with Steve Clifford, who was once deemed the Howard Whisperer, and that's why he ended up going to Charlotte, and teammates would roll their eyes when he spoke. I mean, that's been the story on him since he joined the Lakers. That was the story when he refused and or could not execute a pick and roll with Steve Nash. Right. Possibly one of the great pick and roll players of all time in the history of the sport. Right.

And so now he's on his sixth team, seventh, including the Nets, over the past eight seasons. And every single one is cool guy walking away from explosion. It's like a guy leaving and everybody is just like giving him the middle finger and saying good riddins and like what can we do to get him out of here. I have no problem with Dwight as a player ultimately. He's obviously like got more in the 10. tank than like Greg Monroe, you know? I mean, he could offer a basketball team probably more than a lot of guys who have gigs right now. When healthy, which is a big part of it too.

But he's not going to be a focal point. He might not even be a starter at this point except on the Lakers who are in such a dire need of a big man, which is why Luther's asking this question. And he has basically a ticking clock coming along with him as soon as he hits a locker room. And by the time he gets excommunicated, nobody wants anything to do with him. So at this point, it's just almost entirely off the court. You know? Yeah, I mean, he's clashed with pretty much every star that he's been on. Hardin.

Kobe. Notoriously, easy guys to get along with. That's true. But there also was that situation with Stan Van Gundy where the infamous Diet Pepsi situation where he left him hanging. Well, actually Stan left Dwight hanging, but Dwight kind of set himself up for that.

There's the whole story about the candy and the plane and that's why he changed his mind in order to opt into his contract. Have you now heard this? This is the Skittles thing? Sort of. Dwight was on the verge of getting traded to the nets. It seemed like a done deal.

This is when Brooklyn was still trying to form itself. Oh, yeah. This is the Orlando thing, yeah. And he was on the plane, I believe, coming back from San Antonio. This is a JJ Reddick story. And everyone was basically saying the goodbyes and all this stuff. And he was basically like, you know what? I'm coming back.

This was too much fun. And he rationalized it later on, I believe, at a press conference saying, like, the organization just knows him. They know, like, what favorite. candies I have and they put them on the plane. Ultimately, he got traded a few months later to the Lakers, even though he opted in for another season. The funny thing is, is that, like, I wonder whether the guys on that plane had to, like,

call Rick Binell or whoever the Rick Binell was for Orlando at the time. I was like, hey, you know that, uh, tell all that I just gave you, like, about sources say Howard was, can we just dial that back a little bit, my man? Right. Make sure I get you on the flip side. I mean, he's basically like the mill house of the NBA. Everyone just like wants to kick at him. And I just get the sense that he's like a total dweeb

and just not the type of like good locker room presence as you want around. Let's talk a little bit about Brennan Morse's question, which is which non-all NBA players given a hardened 2018 Westbrook 2016 usage rate, do you think could possibly produce similar statistics? It's a good question. So the idea basically being

if you took player X, non-all NBA player X and gave them the kind of opportunities that Hardin had last season or two seasons ago with the Rockets and Westper clearly had when he went hero ball and the poster rant thunder who could produce similar statistical numbers and I've always kind of been fascinated with this idea

that like if you're in the NBA you're like in this upper upper upper upper upper echelon of basketball player on the planet and how much of it is based on context and opportunity, you know, and how much of it is based on, hey, this guy is number one draft pick or this guy's a lottery pick or this guy was somebody we traded for. So we're going to orient the offense around this person. And what changes from Bradley Beale being Bradley Beale versus being, I don't know, like Reggie Bullock, you know, like not

that they're like the same age or anything like that, but like how many more opportunities, what happened differently for Bradley Beal that didn't happen for. five or six or 20 other guys. Yeah, I think this is basically the previous generation, or perhaps the previous generation before that one, where it was like the Jerry Stackhouses of the world, would just go for 30 every game because they were given just this huge...

It's when basketball was basketball. Right. So now when Ivers enruiled the world. I misread this question. I thought it was just all players, not all of new players. Because I do think that something has changed significantly where, like, the emphasis on efficiency is just so widespread now. I don't know if someone as an inefficient could be a lot of that same opportunity.

Even Hardin, who isn't a particularly efficient player in a, like a vacuum, if you're just to look at his raw shooting numbers, he does a lot of different things that get easy buckets, the threes, the layoffs, which are effective field goal percentages, why it's so high. So if we're not including all NBA players, or if we are including all NBA players, if we're talking about 2018-19 Hardin, I said Steph. just because he's the guy who even when he won his second MVP and he led the league in scoring

still only had a 30 usage rate and Hardin and Russ are the two highest in NBA history they were in the 40s. So that's a guy who I think if he were to get all of KD shots, for instance, he could easily put up a, not easily, but he could put up a Hardin that season. I was trying to figure this out.

I mean, Clay didn't make an all-MBA team last year, I don't believe, and I was wondering whether or not if he was the magic's offense, you know, if he was some team like that, if he was like the king's offense, could he do that? But Clayson off the ball player, or at least a really capable one,

that you don't really think about him bringing the ball up and dominating a set the way Harden and Westbrook did. So it's a really kind of, it's kind of an interesting question in that regard. Right. I think the magic are a good example, though, if, like, this was possible, if you could just give any NBA player

just more shots, could they put up these numbers? At the expense of the entire team, sure, but like Terrence Ross, for instance, is a scorer, and yet he wouldn't put up those numbers even when given the opportunity. Yeah, it's an interesting question. So do you have, like, a final answer then? Well, I think the Russ one is easier to predict

just because we're saying triple doubles was the big factor with there, I guess high points in triple doubles. Katie and LeBron were the guys I came up with first of all, but again, all NBA guys. Yokic is the one I think could realistically do it Yeah he was all NBA last year

All NBA although I think it's significant Because his usage rate was 27.4 He was second in the league And triple doubles with 12 So I think that's a guy who could Like next year theoretically even just do this Without even doing much more Donchch is the guy

31 usage It would have been more fun if you'd been like Archie Goodwin Right I don't know where he is Like Jeremy Lamb Yeah I'm surprised you didn't say Jeremy Lamb.

Yeah, I don't think I would go that far. Andrew Roberts wants to know what do the wolves have to do to be a playoff team this year. I got this one actually. Oh, yeah. So one of the things I really like in European soccer is like in the league tables. You'll see these little mini leagues emerge. So especially in the relegation zone, you'll have like a league of five teams or something, six teams.

They're all fighting to avoid relegation out of the Premier League or what have you. And then there's a lot of competition usually, obviously, obviously in the top four or five to get into the Champions League places. And then there's this middle block that are usually either fighting to get into the Europa League or just stay out of the relegation zone. But these teams get grouped together and they have to win their mini league, especially meaning they have to take points off the teams that are right around them to get what they want in the season.

It's a little bit more fluid in basketball because obviously there's not, it's not like you just play. team twice the way you do in the Premier League. But I do think that if Minnesota wants to make the playoffs, they have to win a mini league between themselves, the Spurs, the Mavericks, and possibly the Lakers, but certainly themselves the Spurs and the Mavericks. Because the West playoffs are going to be the Clippers, the Jazz, the Blazers, the Nuggets, the Rockets, the Warriors, and I would say the Lakers. So then that leaves a spot, right, for San Antonio, Minnesota, or Dallas. And, you know, we don't know if they're

another team that could just somehow a Sacramento or Phoenix makes a run. But what do you think? So I don't think there is far off than people might think. So Kevin Pelton did his projections for the season, and he had him 10th with a 32% chance of making the playoffs, which is pretty healthy. And I think you hit there. I think there is a possibility where injuries happen,

and all of a sudden they vault over some of these teams that we expect to be there. I think two big factors need to happen, though. One, Robert Covington needs to be healthy. Yeah, I was going to say that, yeah. he only played 35 games last season and he seemed like he was hurt from the moment he got to Minnesota I think he's a big key there

especially considering how they're going to deploy towns because it seems like they brought in Jordan Bell so I wouldn't be surprised if they started towns at the four with Bell at the five but I think their most effective lineup is going to be Towns at the five Covington at the four and some of these younger wings that they're bringing in to fill around them

and then Towns needs to take a leap. Yeah, the leap he needs to take to is beyond the Kevin Lovian good stats, bad team, legacy that he's kind of inherited. And he needs to make the move. Obviously, he will not be Tim Duncan. But that kind of, what's important tonight is that we get the win on a boring night in November

and not like I get 25 and 15 and it goes towards some sort of like imaginary status that I have. I don't even think the Towns is like just like that. I don't think that he's like superficial in that sense, but he's in a weird position where power forwards or whatever he is, the stretch four that he is, they affect the game, but they don't necessarily decide it. And he needs to really like figure out a way for him

to ensure that they win these sort of games that wind up biting them in the ass when they're three games out with five games left, trying to get the eight seats so that they can get nuked by the clippers. You know, that's kind of where they want to get out of. They want to be the team that's like, we're coasting into the playoffs. We're playing our best basketball in the spring.

We know how to win a normal game on a Wednesday. And to do that, they need Towns to kind of emerge as not just like a really good stats all-star, but an all-star, all-star. Yeah, he needs to be the Jimmy. To his credit, he did play like a monster once they fired Tom Tibido and brought Ryan Saunderson. So, Dan Scha wrote about this on our site for our Are We Sure series, just about whether or not Towns is already the best big man in the game.

with Saunders in place, this is 37 games. Towns average 27 points on 54, 42, 84 shooting splits, 12.4 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 1.3 blocks per game, and he shot 42% from 3. And this is... It's insane. Yeah, and his numbers are unambiguously astonishing. It's just about whether or not they will translate into actual regular season success that ensures them a playoffs, but there's still a lot of,

of questions about this lineup, but I really, like, I'm excited to watch this team. They would be pretty high on my league pass team. I also think that it's kind of essential that guys like Akogi make a second year leap, not a leap, but like improve. And I think they kind of need a big season from Culver out of the gate. Even if he's not starting, I think they need him to be, that second unit of Shabazz, Culver, Lehman, it depends on whether you think they're starting bell or not. Gorgie. Culver needs to basically lead that second unit. Yeah, I wonder what they're going to do with Wiggins.

Like, Culver and Okoge are basically Wiggins insurance because they're stuck with Jeff Teague, presumably, for another season at the point guard, so they'll probably ride that out. I could see a situation where Wiggins' best, like, role on the team is as the six-man scorer for the second unit. Yeah.

And let, like, Okoge and Culver just be the defensive menaces and let, like, Teague and Towns and maybe, be like some other, like, stretched player get in there and run the offense. I mean, the other thing that they could do this season is they could trade for Chris Paul. That's the wild card. Yeah, that's interesting.

It's interesting as to whether or not Roses will do something like that or whether he sees. So what Towns is on a, he's got three years left, right? I think he might have four or five because he did sign the Supermax extension or the designated player extension.

Right, but he was one of the names that got tossed around when people were like, I think when people were really dizzy from July, it was like, these contracts don't matter. Like if Ben Simmons decides he wants out of Philly after this season, he will make it so that Philly has to trade him. If Carl Towns wants out of Minnesota in two seasons, he can make it so that Minnesota has to trade him. That this is the new way of the world. So Gerson and Saunders saying, hey, we have a four-year plan. we don't want to like sell the farm to get Chris Paul mid-season so that we can get into the seventh spot

and get beat by Houston or something. Although that would be pretty awesome. Pretty awesome playoff series. I don't know if he's necessarily going to have time for that. Well, this is an interesting question because we've seen pretty much the first wave of star players, the guys that have been in our lives for a couple years now. They've all exercised their player empowerment and all that other stuff and they've found their way to new teams, most of them. Towns is the next wave of guys.

Yeah. Towns, Giannis, Simmons. Yeah. They've been all stars, but they haven't had the opportunity. Their second contract really hasn't come up. Towns, I just looked this up, he has five years. So that means his extension that he signed. This is the first year of it. But I do wonder if these things start happening even earlier.

So, I mean, we were talking about Ben Simmons earlier this summer as a guy who literally just put the ink to the paper or maybe even hasn't done it officially yet. And we're already talking about what may happen after that happens. Well, you guys are talking about. about it. Everybody in my life that doesn't care about me is like, yeah, I don't know. I'm really concerned about Simmons and Bean, man. I don't know if you know this, but I don't think it will work out. That's you. I'm imitating you. Eric with a K. How many wins would the all green lineup get? This would be Gerald Green, Danny Green, Jeff Green, Draymond Green, and Jamichael Green.

I go 20. You go over or under. I think they might make the playoffs. Justin, what the fuck is wrong with you? Well, they obviously need a bench. So that's the question. Could the greens... What's the depth strategy for the Greens? Like, could they then draft another last name? Yeah, I think they deserve some league average bench.

Let's just assume. Okay. It's not going to be five guys. Let's just say that this is their starting five for the Greens. So I would actually say, why don't we do this? The Greens and the Turner's. Okay. Okay. So Gerald, Danny, Jeff Draymond, Jim Michael, and then they have a bench of Miles Turner, Evan Turner. Is there any other Turner's?

Turner Sports Network? Turner's, and the entirety of the Turner Sports Network behind them. So this team is on national television every night. I would quit. It's pretty good. You get a TNT Rondo situation. You're in the money, baby. No, but well, okay. And I'll give you Rondo because Rondo loves playing on Turner. How about that? Sure. So that's your eight. It's pretty good. They don't have a point card stuff. I think they win 20 games.

Well, here's the thing. No, they have Rondo. Because Rondo gets to play on Turner. I even think the Green only lineup has enough playmaking in order to get by. So you have Dremont basically as the point center. Jamichael, Jeff Green, Danny Green all shoot. Well, Jeff Green doesn't shoot that well, but he couldn't be like another auxiliary playmaker. Jamichael shoots 37% from three.

Danny Green shoots 40. for Gerald Green Shorts, shoots 36. Pretty good. Draymond, Joe Michael Green, pick and roll, spread out with some shooters. Let's go. I want to see, so the best way to cheat here

would be to pick somebody, it's like you pick the last name, Davis or James, so that you could have, like, LeBron or Anthony. So let's see. You're not in on the greens, as currently constructed? What about Collins or White?

Well, those are good. Collins, you get John Collins and Zach Collins. She's got a lot of big men. That's already you have. Yeah, we need a point guard here. We need to get like Torre and Green out from cryogenic. James doesn't really work. Let me see.

I hope you guys are enjoying this. If you do white, you can get Derek White. He's on the come up. I don't know if you guys have heard. Maybe pull Royce Wade out of the big three. Yeah, no. Royce White just for locker room chemistry? All right, I think they win 20 games.

You think they are a playoff team? They'll start with the playoffs. Yeah. Do you think this team would get into the Western Conference playoffs before the Minnesota Timberwolves? No, no, no. This would have to be the Eastern Conference playoffs. But they're already like better than the wizards.

Eric with a K also says, or is this your joke? Put them in Boston for the green jerseys and playoff team in the East, or is that Eric's joke? Or is that Bobby's joke? That's Eric's joke. Okay. Shout out to Eric. That's a good joke. Joe Corcoran.

Joe wants to know, and we touched on this a little bit, should Steph be the favorite entering the season to win MVP? He's up there. Probably? I have a counter question for you. here. How many games does Kauai need to play to win?

Because I think Kauai is going to be the best player on the best team. So how many games do you think he needs to rack up so that the guys who are like, I just can't vote for somebody

who's only played 64 games? I think any time you dip below 70, you're going to get... So if he hit 70, I think he's the favorite. Is Steph going... Is Steph going like Donkey Kong on people

all season long but winning 49 games? Like, coming in like And the Warriors are like the four seed. Is that enough? Historically, the MVP has favored guys like that over guys like Kauai, an established player who is just doing what everybody expected.

Like, Steph jumped over a bar each time he won MVP before the first time we just didn't expect it. The second time he had one of the best seasons in NBA history. I think you need to do something that takes, like, that people take note of. And for that reason, I do think Steph is in probably the driver's seat. My concern is more with the games played. He's only played 59 games two seasons ago and 61 last season. Like around December, November, we were saying maybe this is Steph's year. But he ended up getting hurt again and all of a sudden everything Thales meant.

So I want to just skip down the list here a little bit to take NBA Nomads question and add it to this, which is who is your Dark Horse MVP candidate heading into the season? Damien Liller. Okay. Because I don't think it's going to be someone we don't expect. I think that rarely happens. I think Steph is probably the only case in recent history. I'd have to wreck my brain about it.

Maybe Derek Rose was a little bit more left field. But even that one, that was like a close race and he probably shouldn't have won it. Liller is the type of guy who's been in our lives for so long. He's proved himself. And I think if the Blazers have a season like the Nuggets did last year, where they end up leading the West or win the West. Because their consistency brings them, like, certain results

that other teams are still trying to, like, kind of figure it out as they're going along. and the next thing we know, the Blazers are the first or second team in the conference. You're saying, yeah. Yeah, and also, I don't think he's ever far exceeded our expectations. So if the Blazers play extremely well and he's the reason why, I think we'll all give him credit and we'll start leaning toward his way. I don't know if this is a dark horse, but I have Davis. I have Anthony Davis.

Okay. I think that he already is numeric, like statistically year on year, usually like an MVP. I think being in Los Angeles, I think being on national television a lot, I think playing with James, and I think if he stays healthy, he's going to put up absurd numbers. And if the Lakers can figure out some of their depth issues

and they wind up as a top four seed, I think Davis is like really, really nailed on there. Yeah, I'm writing about this for next week. I think the fact that Cousins is gone now opens the door for him to have all the opportunities he perhaps wouldn't have had when Cousins was there. He has to play more five. which you didn't expect him to do based on what he was saying

and historically how he's gone about these things. So I would say if he's not the favorite, he's probably second. I would throw out another guy here, and that's Yokic. I think there's, as I referenced earlier, I think there's just like a lot more that he could do for that offense for a team that's already good and is being projected to be good again. And I think if you just gave him or he occupied like a few more possessions and he just didn't follow as much

and he kind of proved himself in the playoffs that he can be when locked in a better defensive player, I think all of a sudden, like, the Nuggets win the West, he's the guy. So I guess the, and also the, another thing in favor of Yokic, in favor of Hardin, in favor of Yonis,

and in favor of Steph, is we have not had an MVP who's playing on a new team since the 93 Barclay season. Yep. So that's quite a bit of history. So that would rule out Kauai, Paul George,

Westbrook, obviously. Duran's not going to play. Kyrie and Brooklyn. Davis. So that's why Yokic makes a lot of sense. I haven't looked at the betting odds, but I would put a lot of money. It's also, I mean, I guess it's kind of absurd

we haven't mentioned LeBron. Because hypothetically, LeBron might be looking at this as, I have Anthony Davis, this is my, I can't afford to say, in two years I'll be good because I just don't know

what my body's going to do. And he's probably feeling like people were getting their free shots on him last season. So if he were to do it, he would tie Carl Malone for the oldest MVP in NBA history. Okay. So at 35. So I think that's against him, but I agree.

All right. So like preseason MVP, who do you think it's going to be Steph? Or you think it's going to be Lillard? I think it's going to be Steph if he plays enough games. I know that's annoying caveat. But I would put my money on Yokich because the odds are probably really good. And I think there's a good chance he does it. I think it's going to be Kauai if he plays more than 70.

because I just think also the narrative after the finals is this is the best player in the NBA so we just have to like find somebody he already has it it's his to lose by not playing enough games all right let's go to Donald Monaghan who asks favorite non-finals NBA playoff game the stakes of the game if any

and why I don't know if this was a historical question or was this from last season I would probably say as boring as this is OKC Golden State Western Conference Finals games is my favorite. Didn't love the result, but I thought that was the most entertaining game

I've seen in probably this decade. Thank you to Donald for his question. We're going to take a quick break to him from our sponsors and we'll be right back. Today's episode of group chat is brought to you by NHTSA. Everyone knows about the risks of driving drunk. You could get in a crash. People could get hurt or killed.

But here are some surprising statistics. Almost 29 people in the United States die every day in alcohol-impaired vehicle crashes. That's one every first. 50 minutes, even though drunk driving fatalities have fallen by a third in the last three decades, drunk driving crashes still claim more than 10,000 lives each year. Drunk driving can have a big impact on your wallet, too. You could get arrested and incur huge legal expenses.

You could possibly even lose your job. So what can you do to prevent drunk driving? Plan a safe ride home before you start drinking. Designate a sober driver or call a taxi. If someone you know has been drinking, take their keys and arrange for them to get a sober ride home. We all know the consequences of driving drunk, but one thing's for sure. You're wrong if you think it's no big deal. Drive sober or get pulled over. All right, we're back. Let's talk about Mr. Wilson's question.

Who's Mr. Wilson? Well, he's the guy who's obsessed with power forward. Because he asked, is the power forward position making a comeback with new young talent like Jared Jackson Jr., Marvin Bagley, Lori Markinen, John Collins, Zach Collins, Jonathan Isaac, and Amanus a bonus. I think we're on the way back to the golden era of Power Forward from the aughts with KG, Rashid, Duncan Weber, Dirk, Jermaine O'Neill, and Amari. in O'Neill. He was pretty good. He was fine. Mr. Wilson, I would just say that the guys that you mentioned from the aughts are, many of them

are champions. Many of them are all NBA players. None of the guys you have mentioned so far are that. And the power forward position is probably the position that is most in jeopardy, I think, because of this post-position basketball we play. only in so much is like, I don't know what the position is anymore. These guys that you're mentioning

are not the same player, right? Like you've got a silky smooth score like Bagley who can go outside in. You've got Markinan who we associate being a sharpshooter. Jonathan Isaac, who's kind of like this wild jump out of the gym guy but can also shoot a little bit.

What do you think of Mr. Wilson's question, Justin? Didn't we just come from the golden age of power forwards? Aren't we already in the golden age of power forwards where a guy like Janus is winning him? VP. Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah, KD can play the four. Yeah, Anthony Davis is a power forward. DeMarcus cousins was a power forward.

Andy Davis is definitely a power forward. Right. Yeah, I would argue that like that generation of unicorns is the era of point power forwards. Okay. And I think what's interesting is those guys, for the most part, are

two-way guys. The guys that have excelled beyond just big men who can shoot ended up having an impact on both then to the court, I think the thing with the guys that are listed here, the Jarron Jackson's, the Bagley's, a lot of these guys are one-way players, except for Jaron Jackson, probably. The other thing that's interesting is Mr. Wilson has identified a group of guys who play largely from bad teams.

So I don't know what that means. I mean, they're all young guys. Yeah, but I guess those are the guys much like it. Jared Jackson on the Gris, Bargley on the Kings, Marketing on the Bulls, Collins on the Hawks, Johnson and Isaac on the Magic. Sabonis is on the Pacers who are good, and Zach Collins is on the Blazers who are good. but it'll be interesting to see if any of these guys can drag their teams into relevance

by the product of being power forwards, or are they just along for the ride with the Trey Youngs and whoever else? I think there's two like ancillary things that are interesting about this question. The Jom-Mrant train goes one way, and it's leaving power forwardville. You know what I mean?

Sure. Two things here, if I can. I think it's interesting that even in this era, a lot of some of the more intriguing guys in the league right now, some of the intriguing young guys are all big men. I think it speaks to how valuable

it is to have a big man who could shoot right now, which is probably why, even though in the playoffs we see guys who look mostly like wings, these guys still end up getting drafted pretty highly over the past few drafts. I think the other thing is, I wonder if there's kind of a dearth of guards

that nobody's really paying attention to. We really haven't, besides a few, like Luca, Trey, maybe Morant. There's kind of been a drop-off, and I think you're starting to see it even in Team USA where there aren't as many frontline guys as we're used to seeing in that archetypical wing score Paul George mold.

Sure. So you specifically mean like threes like Paul George, or do you mean even like... Like a two. Like the guys like Malik Munk who haven't popped the way that maybe we thought they would. Even like a, yeah, like a one or a two or some of these scoring threes.

Yeah, like Mitchell's the last really good, I think Mitchell is the last great guard to be drafted. I mean, you have guys like Murray. You have guys. I mean, Deerun Fox is a point guard. Yeah. There are guys, but I just don't, I think for a while,

the NBA was dominated by a lot of garb play. And I think all of a sudden, it seems like it's swinging more toward Bigman. Dylan Ellen asks, if you could pick one big man in NBA history to switch onto regular season James Hardin in isolation and shut him down without fouling, who would you pick and why?

So my joke answer is Kevin Love, just because he shut down Steph Curry in the finals in that one play. I don't have a big man answer. I do have like a historical answer, which is I would love to see Pippin do it. Yeah. Because I think Pippin's length and savvy would be a really interesting matchup against Hardin. I do think that pretty much at a certain point, nobody from the past could play with the handcheck rules. Yeah, that's part of it. So I don't understand how Rodman would Dia would D-Up Hardin.

See, Rodman was the one I thought of after Pippin, specifically because he moved more like a bigger wing. He just had a lot of good side-to-side mobility. And that's basically what you need because you're trying to stay in front of Hardin without following. Yeah. But on the other hand, he was also prone to following. He was also prone to getting technical foul. So I don't know how that would end up. What do you think about, like, do you think that,

I was going to say like KG. Yeah, that's not bad. Like, PKG could maybe get out there on him. But even these guys are just like, they would struggle on the perimeter right now. Yeah. I think, yeah, peak KG, young KG definitely would. But you're really looking for like hip mobility. Sure.

And being able to move side to side and being able to drop back and just like stay with him. So I don't know. It's a tough question. Like a guy like Duncan, one of the best defenders in NBA history. But not exactly the guy you would never, you wouldn't really think of Duncan getting left out on an island 30 feet from the hoop and thinking this guy's going to pull up

here, which is the reality that we're talking about. Lakers fan till death, Justin's Burner. Which players make their first all-star games this year? I think Donovan Mitchell definitely has the narrative going behind it, coming out of Fiba, coming out of everybody

being like, yeah, Donovan Mitchell looks great. Yeah, he looks great. And he's going to be playing with the best guy. parties ever played within his life with Conley. A lot of people expect a lot of things from Utah. So that's my pick for the West. It's going to be a crowded Western Conference All-Star ballot,

but I think that that one makes sense. What about you? I think it would be interesting, too, because Conley, the guy who's never made the All-Star team, would essentially be setting that up for him. Yeah. Yeah, so I wonder if they would split the ballot. The guy I picked out was Pascal Seagum.

He's just going to be so, like, barren. Because you think his numbers are so gaudy? Yeah. I mean, he had a case for last year. when he was playing in Kauai's Shadow. I do think everything is set up to be there. A couple other guys I wrote down here, Luca, even though the West is crowded,

I think he has a really good shot. Tobias Harris, a guy who has all the opportunity in the world, even though he's playing with like two or three potential candidates. Yeah, I was wondering how many, I don't mean this in the way it's going to sound, but I wonder how many Sixers can go.

It's possible. So like Simmons and Bidhorford and Harris would all be candidates to go to the All-Star game. Maybe even Richardson, if he has an incredible year. And yeah, I mean, it's not out of the question. Yeah. So maybe Harris gets lost in the shuffle,

but I also think he's the guy... Maybe we go hawk style, you know. And they run up play in their first opportunity on the court. Jason Tatum, a guy who could pop after Team USA to earn Fox. I'm a break. I also wonder if, like, John Collins, his numbers were incredible last year. You think Trey goes first, though?

Do you think Trey makes the All-Star team before John Collins? I wonder if Trey would get the fan vote, Collins would put up good enough numbers. Coach numbers? Interesting. Offseason asks, if James Hardin wins X championships, any day now, he will be considered better than Kobe and Wade. X equals what?

So a little math here from off season. I like this question. It's a tough one. I think the Wade one is easier than the Kobe one. I don't think that this is that hard. Like, people already think that Hardin's better than Wade. like most i think there's like a huge school of thoughts just like just so we're clear like Hardin is like what the second or third best shooting guard of all time yeah and he's representing an era of basketball

right now yeah and we're we're we're we're I don't know if we're I guess we're post rings we're post rings right on this pot are we post rings we are definitely not you and I yeah you and I are not well I would say that general the conventional wisdom that I hear from people is that Hardin is the second or third best shooting guard of all time. So I don't, to ask that he wins more rings than Kobe to be considered better than Kobe,

I don't know if that's really like the kind of discourse that we're having right now. That's a really interesting question. I think he might have to win five titles in order to best Kobe. I guarantee you with my actual life that James Hardin will not win five titles. No, I know that. I know that's what's going to take.

I assume somebody on Twitter is going to take me up on that and be like, you said I could kill you. It just creates this interesting discussion because the one knock against Kobe is as we found out more about efficiency, it just didn't seem like Kobe was who we thought he was or at the very least you could poke holes in the way he was successful.

When Hardin has warped it so that that's his advantage, that he just jacks. Right. And yet it's the best shot in basketball. Sure. So you really can't use that in the discourse. And so you're left with just like plot

it's in a common. And Kobe, it's unbelievable how many, like, accomplishments he had in his career. He made the All-Star team 18 fucking times. And although he only had the one MVP, so that match is Hardin. I think it's quite obvious that Kobe and Wade are better than Hardin. I understand the numbers are different. But, like, in terms of, like, what you're supposed to do on a basketball team, Dwayne Wade won three titles, right?

Right. And Kobe has five. So that's a lot. I think if Hardin had one title, it would alleviate him from that, like, tidal ring comparison thing. Yes. I'm sure the Houston Rockets' Twitter account will take us to task on this.

Trust the Praxis asks, would you rather be in the Celtics or Nets situation right now? Which one would you be on? I think that I would rather be a Celtics fan than a Nets fan. Okay. I think the Nets will be better

over the next four years. Yeah, it's the burden hand. Yeah. They have two superstars. The Celtics are counting on Tatum or Walker. to emerge as a superstar, even though Campbell won or was named all NBA,

I think there's still a lot of guards I would pick over him, which means me to say. Like, Katie coming back to 85% probably makes the Nets the favorite in the East in 2021. Yeah, the Nets could theoretically win two titles over the next three years. Yes.

So I don't think the Celtics are even close to that. I do think what's interesting is the Celtics still loom as a team that could swing a trade. They're like one of the last team, that has the assets and the motivation in order to get a Bradley Beal. Or, like, I don't know if Towns comes up or some of these other young guys. Jerf, J-E-R-F, asks which third-year player makes the biggest leap this season?

Interesting question. So these are the guys from the 17 draft? Right. Right. So I think a guy like Fox could ultimately be the best player next season among that draft class. I think Isaac, Jonathan Isaac, might make the biggest leap. from where he was last season. He's kind of been up and down

the past two seasons. He had the injury, I believe, was an ankle injury. His first season that really derailed that. But last year, the Magic's defense ended up being first over the last 30 games of the season. I think he was a big part of that.

If he just kind of brings more on the offensive end, shows a little bit of stretch, a little bit more creativity with the ball, I think he could easily be like the two to Aaron Gordon. That's basically the case that Jonathan Charks made on her site on Wednesday for his art. Are we sure?

I'm going to go Fox. Fox is good. I mean, other guys I mentioned, Derek White, in honor of Bobby. Yeah. Who seems to be getting the leg up in June USA, because he knows Bobbich. That brings us up to Trash Buton's question. If the over-under for how many more years Popovich coaches the Spurs is 2.5, do you take the over or the under? Going under.

Me too. So this season, next season, that's two, Olympics. and I think next season he announces it's his last NBA season and that he's going to go out win the gold in 2020. I think there are already signs. Right, wait, no, so it would be this season. And then the Olympics are next summer. Oh, this season, Olympics and then one last spur season, you think?

Or do you think he announces in the middle of this season, this will be allowed by last spur season? I coached the Olympics and I'm done. I could see him do two more. Didn't he sign a contract? I believe it was three years and I believe it happened in April? Yeah. And he like, do you think he's like the, I never,

I always see out my contract? contract guy? He could be. At the very least, this was signaled as this is probably my last contract. Right. When it happened, I think there are already things in the air, though, that things are changing within the Spurs. Recently, R.C. Buford got promoted to some nebulous title. I believe it was like CEO. It's a little bit more overarching than over basketball operations. Brian Wright is now the GM there. Tim Duncan is in as an assistant coach. I think there's a lot of these like legacy things that are happening right now. Maybe setting up the next generation. He's also seven years. years old. And to put into context, Jerry Sloan was 68 when he stepped away in the middle of that season.

Right. Now, that was because he was sick of Daron Williams' shit. Daron Williams made Jerry Sloan retired. What a time. Jake asks, Jake Maz asked, if you were starting a franchise, what under 25 point guard would you want? So I start this with a caveat. Is Luka a point card? Yeah, is Simmons a point card? I think Simmons is a point guard because he says he's a point card, although now he might be a shooting guard. So would you want Luca or Ben?

I got that, by the way. You want Luca over, Ben? Do you? It's okay. Oh, no, I want Luca, but do you want to talk about Benson's shooting videos? No, I don't. I don't. I don't acknowledge basketball that doesn't take place during the NBA regular season or the NBA playoffs.

Sure. Prove it on the real hard word. No, I'm not going to get excited about, I'm not going to have like a nine-hour conversation about whether Devin Booker should get doubled or not. I don't know. We're so fucking bored. No, we're not. I refuse to treat that as important. And then you know what happens is then we get to the regular season and we're so tired of talking about basketball.

We're like, ah, the Timberwolves lost like now today. Who gives you shit? But in August, you wanted to talk about Devin Booker getting doubled all day long. Yeah. So forget that. I'm having a good time. I'm changing the rules of debate. So it's Luca, and if it's not Luca, I would say Fox.

Over Ben Simmons. Yeah. Okay. Because he could shoot a basketball. He could step out away from the hoop and it can make it go in. This is, we got like, the clock is ticking on us. and our relationship. AZ said we need group chat's answers

to the NBA rookie survey. Dog, I don't know. So let's do this together. Rookie of the year, Zion. Or Morant. I can see if Zion gets hurt. Justin, come the fuck on, man. Well, Anthony Davis didn't win

Rookie of the Year. Yeah, Zion William Wilson will. Because he got hurt. Okay. And Damien Lillard stepped in. I think there's like a whole thing. But any of them can get hurt. I mean, like we can't predict

he's going to get hurt or not. I don't know if you know this, but Anthony Davis also used to play for the Pelicans. The parallels, man. The parallels. They got the new medical. staff, dude. Yeah, that's true.

They're going to get those glutes just firing. Rookie of the year is Zion Williamson. I'm not encouraged that he couldn't play Summer League. The official group chat rookie of the year candidate,

we are endorsing Zion. Morant. Farnant also didn't play Summer League, so I should imagine that. We have no idea how good he is. Best career. Zion. Okay, Zion.

Biggest steal in the draft, I'm going Brandon Clark. Oh, that's a really good one. Thanks, man. Not that I watch non- NBA regular season or Playoff Basel, I'm just saying. I split it.

I said Cam Reddish or Seku Duyemboa. Most athletic, Jackson Hayes. That guy can fucking jam. That's a really good one. Bobby, am I cursing too much? No, you're cursing the perfect amount for a minute 50 of the pod. Jackson Hayes,

really good. Yeah. Also makes me think of Jackson Maine from Star is born. Best shooter, I have no idea. Cam Johnson, he's 30 years old and shoots 46% from the three. Best defender.

Thyble? Oh, that's a really good one. I said Hunter. DeAndre. Best playmaker. Probably Morant. Okay. Last year, Pascal Seacom, this comes from Michael Nass, was relatively unknown. Do you see any player making a similar kind of jump this year?

I mean, it's a pretty incredible jump that he made. I think it's, if we look at even just the scope of all of NBA history, I think it's an outlier situation. DJ Foster wrote about the next Seacombs for us a couple weeks ago. and he did it by using a benchmark in terms of, I think it was playing time. And he listed Zach Collins, the Anthony Milton, the guy that the Grizzlies traded for from the Sons in that weird trade with Jared Jackson, or excuse me, Josh Jackson, Harry Giles, Mitchell Robinson, O.G. I think those are all good candidates. If we really want to step outside of that and include guys that are a little bit more known, so we're already kind of like divorcing ourselves from the question a little bit, I think Miles Bridges makes sense of all the opportunity in the world.

the Hornets and if we're saying it's opportunity, he could step forward and become an offensive factor there. Some league monk's not going to get that then. I don't think so, man. It's not a good sign when you're behind Dwayne Bacon on the depth chart. Jalen Brown, another guy who's interesting. Rondea Hollis Jefferson, who's on kind of his second leg of his career

trying to make something himself in Toronto. I think he does enough on the defensive end. He's switching if he could just like put it together on the offensive end. The big wild card I have here is Davas Bertans. So he gets traded. to DC in that weird deal. And it'll have like a lot of usage there. There you go.

Right. I had a slightly less scientific criteria here. It was either sneaky second best player on a title team, which I think is very hard to predict. And of all the title contenders, I think it's not like there's no ambiguity about who the second best player is going to be on that team. Or a late round pick emerging in his third year. And if it was the latter, I kind of can't tell because, We're in L.A., so we watch the Clippers all the time,

but I feel like Montrez Harrell could be, he could have Draymondian potential in terms of being this kind of like athletic big man focal point for a championship caliber team. And that's a good one, because he's a guy who had a very specific role, and then he could ultimately just put everything else on top of that, which is basically what Siakum was.

He was just this perfect, like he had the perfect body to be a good defender in guard the LeBron's, but for a while he was really just playoff. chum as teams just ripped through the raptors, ultimately put everything else together and all of a sudden he's one of the best young players in the NBA. Chris Haynes, not that Chris Haynes, this is our last question.

Since the Lakers are going all fours this year, if you've constructed a team of all one position, which position group would win out point guards versus centers, etc. So I took him a step further. I'm going point guards just because that's who I care about is point guards. And my all PG team, if I was actually trying to field a team of point guards, I'm going Curry Lillard, Drew Holiday, Westbrook and Simmons. Interesting.

Yeah. Simmons plays five finally. Wow. Yeah. I love it. What do you got? I mean, we see this every time the Rockets play the Warriors in the playoffs. It's all threes.

Yeah. It's all wing types. You could just do everything else. That's the NBA right now. So threes. Threes. Okay. Great.

Group chat. That's the mailbag. This was a lot of fun. I'm sorry for using the F word so many times. Bobby, thank you for recording us. We will be back next Thursday to talk about. all the hot headlines in the NBA. Basketball is very good.

Basketball is very good.