The Ringer NBA Show - Minnesota Timberwolves Observations, and Reactions to the Start of the Season | Weekends With Wos

Episode Date: December 2, 2022

Wos is back to sit down with Athletic writer Jon Krawczynski to discuss the Minnesota Timberwolves’ performance thus far, featuring highlights, injuries, and the overall status of the team. Host: Wosny Lambre Guest: Jon Krawczynski Producer: Jade Whaley Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The time has come to get ready for the 2022 World Cup. And what better way to prepare than by revisiting the World Cup's most amazing goals? I'm Brian Phillips. I'm making a podcast about the history of the men's World Cup, told through the stories of 22 iconic goals. The show's called 22 Goals. It's out now on the Ringer Podcast Network, and we're having so much fun. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the latest edition of weekends.

I'm your host, Big Waz, and I'm joined by the one and only. The great John Krasinski of the athletic was going on, brother. What's going on, Waz? There are two John Krasinski's. I'm not the one and only, but, you know, I'm trying to do the best I can with it. So I appreciate you having, man. You're the real John Krasinski. Remember when we first got on social?

Yeah. And somebody had our name, and we would just be like, the real. That's right. John Krasinski, so that's who you are, man. Thanks for coming on today. I had to have you on, man, because I feel the thing is, John, I couldn't remember if I had actually spoke to you for this podcast or I just listened to you on literally every podcast that I listened to talk about the Minnesota Timberwolves preseason. And there was so much optimism. I myself shared in that optimism.

New ownership group, which I heard is, might be in flux. New ownership, the Rudy trade, you know, improving upon impressive playoff showing. You know, Anthony Edwards literally probably, no, people were excited about Carl Towns. I shouldn't say that. But like, you know, since Kevin Garnett, it's Carl Towns, Anthony Edwards is exciting. Timberwolves, there was so much hope and optimism. And just a couple of the days ago, Carl Anthony Towns was diagnosed with a calf injury, I believe. Four to six weeks he's out.

They haven't exactly, you know, burst it off for the blocks to start the season. What in the hell is happening in Minnesota, John Kaczynski? The Timberwolves are happening, Waz. That's what's happening right now. Covered this team for a long time. seems like every time you think things could be going the right way, they go the wrong way. It has been really interesting. I, like you said, I was really optimistic.

You know, this is a team that had a great season last year. They're fun and exciting. They get to the playoffs and lose to Memphis in round one. And basically, they look at their team and they say, you know what? We're light on rim protection. We're light on rebounding. That's the key to making the next step. then they go out and they get the best rim protector and rebounder in the league and you figure,

okay, it's good to go here. This should be really successful, at least in the regular season. We knew there were going to be questions in the playoffs, but at least in the regular season, this should be a team that piles up wins and gets after it. Well, what we've seen is the transition to a Rudy Gobert-centric defense to an offense with towns and Gobert in as featured elements of it has been really clunky and it's taken a really long time for guys to figure it out and they haven't figured it out yet to be honest with you. And so not only have we seen this team struggle schematically, I think from a defensive

and an offensive standpoint, but you also can see that they are not connected as a group. I think that it's not that they don't like each other. it's not chemistry issues that way, it's that they are trying to play an unconventional style of basketball, and it takes a lot of thinking right now for them to do that. And so they're a step slow on everything, and they're not competing as hard. They had a really good win on Wednesday night against Memphis without towns, but by and large, they've just lacked that kind of fire and competitiveness because I think they're really tentative while they try to figure this whole thing out. Yeah, I want to get on to you.

each side of the ball for sure. But I do want to start on defense because you talk about the new style that they're playing, right? Rudy notoriously, obviously, probably damn near invented the drop coverage. Defense, right? It's just what he did in Utah where everything was,

the idea, especially in the regular season when you're not playing these great five-out, four-out lineups, funnel everything to the paint, funnel it to Rudy. Guys will either take a very highly contested shot or they won't shoot it at all. And that was good for top five defenses for years in Utah, right? Like that was to the point where when they played teams like Dallas and the Clippers before that in the playoffs, when they, you know, sort of had to match up against a five-outs

system, guys didn't know what to do. It was like, isn't my job to let guys just dribble past me? No, don't do that. Not against the five out. Rudy has to either contest a wide open layup or he's giving up a wide open

corner three the most efficient shot in the game. The two most efficient shots in the game, right? And we saw how that sort of played out in Utah, but that was the plan. It's like, we have this great rim protector. Some would argue one of the greatest of all times. And that's how we're going to orient our defense.

Whereas last year, when they found some level of mojo, it was this highly aggressive attack the ball handler, right? Put two on the ball on pick and roll. We call in the towns. And they had the athletes to scramble behind that play. This year, it feels like they're doing a sort of melange of both. What have you seen out there with the defense? defensive struggles. Yeah, so it's been a couple of things. And you're right that here, here's what

it, I think, boils down to, we'll go short and then we'll expand on it. But they are playing, the style of defense they're playing now with Rudy is basically the exact opposite of what they did last year. This isn't like a minor tweaks and adjustments to incorporate. This is an entirely different way of life as a defender when you're playing with Rudy Gobert versus what they did last. year. Last year you had Patrick Beverly, you had Jared Vanderbilt, you had guys who were mobile and kind of tenacious and just ran around with their hair on fire. And I think that what I understand about their reasoning about going this route is they figured, look, we can't sustain that over the course of several years. It takes a lot out of you to do it that way. But the good thing about that system was it did activate Anthony Edwards. It did activate. Jaden McDaniels. DiAngelo Russell was sort of able to play more of a free safety. So he wasn't kind of on an island with guys where he really struggles.

And so for that short period of time, it fit the way that that team was built. And they were successful. They were 13th in the league in defense last year. And in Minnesota, was that's worthy of raising a banner. Like they're always awful defensively. So that was a really good improvement. Well, now you bring in Rudy Gobert. and you are asking players who are used to playing more on instinct and kind of just running around

and using their athleticism to be more controlled and disciplined to kind of like hold the fort a little bit more and that's where it's not working as well. First of all, Carl Anthony Towns is just not a mobile power forward and he is having a hard time kind of chasing fours around screens and things like that. That creates problems. Anthony Edwards is really good on the ball. Like when he's right in front you and it's man on man, he can lock people up.

But he loses focus and concentration when he's off the ball. He gets backdoor it all the time. Any kind of ball movement and player movement really gives them problems. And now they don't really know when they're supposed to funnel, funnel guys right to Rudy and let him clean the way. it up and then they don't know when it's time for them to really stay home and engage on their defender on the guy that they're defending. And so what you see is a lot of layups, a lot of wide open threes. And the final piece of this was is they're a vastly better defense when

Rudy Gober is on the floor. Opponents shoot a much lower percentage at the rim and shoot far fewer shots at the rim. But Rudy has not been his dominant self there. He's averaging like, less than 1.4 blocks a game. And he's usually up around three or more. And so he has not been the overpowering, overwhelming rim protector shot blocker guy that he usually is. And whether that is a step slow coming off of Eurobasket, whether that is trying to learn these new players that he's playing with and being caught in no man's land, I think

there's a multitude of reasons for it. But all in all, you're just seeing a defense that really, really doesn't know what it's doing yet. And so anytime you pass it more than two or three, two or three times in a possession and you make one hard cut, you're getting a good shot. Like that's generally what it's been and that's been a huge struggle for them. Yeah. And man, because there's several levels and layers to competent, great, you know, if you're the Boston Celtics, damn they historically great defense, right? I think the symbols had gotten to a level where they had a scheme that everybody on the team understood, but it was very,

this is all we do. Yes. The best defenses are matchup specific and not just the team that we're playing. The pick and roll partners within that team, we have, we specify our coverage to who's in the pick and roll, right? So you might say, you know what, we're playing the Warriors tonight. We're not going to do job coverage. We're going to blitz every time no matter if it's Kevin Looney or Draymond Green playing.

Whereas the best defense is like, no, when Draymond sets the screen, we're going to cover it this way. When Kavanaughn comes, we're going to cover it this way. When Clay sets the screen, we're going to do a switch. Like, I feel like that's what the Timberwolves are trying to get to. And, you know, if there's anything to be hopeful of, it's early. early. Yes. Right?

I think, you know, we can use the Milwaukee Bucks as a great example where they get rid of Jason kid, Bud comes in there, and Bud's like, look, all we're doing is drop coverage. We're going to cover the pick and roll the same every single time, but we're going to master that. And, you know, it doesn't matter when we get to the playoffs and we're playing Kyrie Irving and we're playing these guys who are amazing pull-up jump shooters on pick and roll. We're going to stick to it. And then, you know, years into the system, they're like, no, let's add tweaks.

No, let's put Janice at center. Yo, let's switch. Yo, let's meet them at the level. Yo, let's, you know, they slowly but surely added it, but they had the personnel to be elite at, you know, this rigid way of doing it. And then they slowly add it. I feel like that's the portion of the program that the Timberwolves are at, the beginning portion.

It's just the results are not Janus and Brooke Lopez. and Chris Middleton and Drew Holiday levels with their base and they're trying to figure it all out, you know? Yeah, it's a great point. There are two things on that. One is, yes, like, we are still only a quarter of the way into their first season playing together. And I talked to Eric Spolsor about this when the heat were in town. And, you know, we all know that they were nine and eight when LeBron and Bosch and Wade and the house was burning. and they had to kind of bat down the hatches.

Well, no, yeah. What I don't want to do is say that, that we're going to be not one, not two, not three, not four. We're not going there. But what I'm saying is, like, even teams with much greater talent, with much greater combinations of players. A much higher floor.

Exactly. Often take a little while to figure all of this out, Boston Celtics last year. Where were they in middle of the season? You know? So I'm not saying that the wolves are going in that direction, but what I am saying is that we have seen better teams with better collections of talent take a while to figure things out.

So we can't automatically just say 20 games into this, 22 games into this that it's never going to work. I think it's way too early to say that. Definitely too early to that. And that they do need time to play. together. But I do think one of the things that is hampering them right now is they do not play very intelligent basketball a lot of times. And so, you know, when you have really smart guys who are in a system, you kind of have the faith in them that the learning curve is going to be

rather short, that they're going to figure this out and that eventually things iron out and they get going forward. I think one of the things that Chris Finch is working, with this group of players is, you know, game recognition, film study, opponent, scouting reports. These guys aren't exactly on the top of things a lot of times. And I think that that does hurt. You see them make a lot of mental errors that are basic, basic things. And so the basketball IQ point of things has really struggled for this team early. And I think that's contributed to why we haven't seen this thing take hold.

because I do think they have talent. It's just that the puzzle pieces are not fitting together great right now. So we talked about the defense because I think for me that's been the focal point. But I think there's calls for concern. I don't want to ring any alarm bells. But I think there's calls for concerns on the offense as well. And the main reason is that I think DeAngelo Russell is never going to be another person. He is who he's going to be for his NBA career.

I think the same is true of Carl Towns on offense. He's an offensive specialist, but like his game is, I don't see it maturing past, drastically past the point that it is now. Obviously, we know that's true of Rudy Gobert, right? However, Anthony Edwards is in a developmental stage of his game on all. offense. And I think the complexities of what's being asked of this group has really had an effect on his output this year, his season. We saw, you know, he came out and said, yeah, man, you know, I'm not getting to the rack as much because there's always people down here.

You know, he even came out and said, like, he's playing in ways that he might not prefer to play. I think even anecdotally, I was watching, you know, a Timberwolves game recently with my brother while I was in Georgia for Thanksgiving. He was like, man, this dude don't go to the rack no more. You know, all he do is shoot jumpers now, which feels way. And I think the numbers even bear that out. He's taking more jumpers this year. Like, is this concern, Charlie? Is this guy, you know, a 21-year-old guy and, you know, these are sort of the growing pains?

or, you know, do you think there's legitimate reason to be concerned about the roster construction and how it might develop how this guy is crafting his game? Well, yeah, I do think when you look at it, it's clear that in this roster construction, the one player who has been adversely affected the most is Anthony Edwards. And in many ways, he's their most important player. And so that is a concern when you look at and you say, gosh, this is the guy that we think eventually can develop into the guy, like the number one star leader of a team, you know, can strike fear into the hearts of teams in the playoffs,

can really take a team and put it on his back like he did against Memphis on Wednesday night, but he seems stifled a little bit. Now, what I have seen from the Timberwolves is that they believe that he just needs time to figure it out. Like he has not really ever run pick and roll. with a big like Rudy Gobert. He said before the, before the season started, he's never thrown lobs like in a half court setting, ever, like ever.

And so he threw, you know, he threw one to Rudy on Wednesday night. And it was just like seeing the Mona Lisa for the first time. It's like, okay, like this is what is possible. But he needs to learn how to play this way. And I do think that in the long term it can be really effective for him. but he is going through major growing pains with it right now. I think over the last week to 10 days, they had a five-game winning streak,

and then even in these last couple of games where they hadn't played well before Memphis, you started to see him be a little more assertive and just say, look, I'm going to the rack, and I'm going to figure this out, and I'm going to force you to make calls or do something like that. And so that's more of the aggressiveness they want to see.

But there's no question that he has had a hard time figuring out, how to operate in an offense where there are two big dudes to work around. Can that happen over the long term and get figured out? I think it could, absolutely. But it's been a struggle right now. And one of the reasons that it has been a struggle is that they have gone from the most prolific three-point shooting team in the league. They shot more threes than anyone last year.

They're taking like 11 less three-pointers a game this year. and they're making almost, they're shooting like the Lakers. Like they're terrible from there. And so that is really messed with the spacing as well. DeAngelo Russell, super inconsistent. Even Towns before he got hurt was shooting 32% and he's usually a 40% three point shooter. When they traded Malik Beasley in that Gobert deal, they didn't get a three point gunner specialist to fill his role.

Bryn Forbes has not been that guy. Jalen Noelle's been up and down with the three. point shot. So they have, there's just a lot, the pain is packed right now because there's not a lot of respect for the outside shooters. I watched the game against Memphis. They were like at one point two for eight from the corner, like from corner threes. That's Edwards. That's Russell. That's Kyle Anderson. That's guys who they're just not making those gimmee shots. And so when that happens, it just shrinks the floor so much. And that hurts Anthony Edwards as much as the two bigs is everyone can just pack in and not let him get to the rack, which is where he can do so much damage.

Yeah, you talk about his chemistry or lack thereof with Rudy right now. You know, a lot of times I am watching the game. And it's so fascinating, especially when you're watching a new group and you mentioned the IQ thing, there are guys who, you know, they are so high level in terms of their understanding of what defenses and offenses are trying to do against them. They can go into a new system and not even just executed, but like understanding what your teammates are about to do, you know, at every single turn.

And, you know, the Timberwolves have none of that right now. But the thing about Rudy that I think guys are also getting used to, especially is that he actually screens people. Yes. Like, every time. Yep. You know what I mean? Yes.

Like Rudy actually plants your guy and you're supposed to do your move or action based on the fact that your guy's actually being screened, right? When you're picking role partners called Towns where the idea is like, you know, I'm sort of feigning it so I could get out to the three point line or this or that. It's just a completely different proposition and no, Rudy's going to hit the guy and then he's going to roll. And I should be looking for him because... the sort of chain reactions that happens when a defender gets solidly screened, and the people behind the play have to react to that. And what that means for the guy that set the screen, I think Aunt is learning what that scenario means, right?

How that unfolds. And yes, it's only 20 games in with a new teammate. But I'm watching it sometimes like, yo, Rudy's open. Yeah. You know? And Rudy actually is in a point of his career where he might get the ball on a pick and roll and make a pass to the corner. He's not super one-dimensional.

And, you know, it's crazy hearing myself say this because I've been one of the most critical Rudy Gobert people ever. But I don't think he's unworkable in what the wolves have. And so that's why I'm a little bit bullish about what the future may hold. But, man, it's hard to watch this team

and not think about Utah. And I watch Beasley and Vanderbilt, like, damn, the wolves can really use these two dudes. right now. It's kind of crazy. But where do you see the sort of, I don't want to say ray of hope, but like, you know, actual gains being made and improvements being like, all right, these are things that these guys are building on. Yeah, I think like your point about the screening is totally right because you can see that aunt doesn't know how to use that screen yet. And he is used to playing with towns who, look, there's no bigger fan of an offensive play.

of his capabilities than I am just in watching the way that he can shoot it, he can go to the basket, he can pass it, he's super efficient, super reliable. I love Towns's offensive game. But one of the things that he is terrible at is setting screens. And he was always picking up offensive fouls because he's always moving. He never made full contact with the player that he was screening. And so Aunt, I don't think ever got used to playing like that where if I am coming off of a Rudy Gobert screen, the whole thing is going to open up both for me and for him.

And so I think as that chemistry builds, there is a ray of hope there. As Aunt learns how to use that screen, learns how to find Rudy on the role and things like that, there's going to be a whole other world that does open up for the wolves that way. I will say too, the one thing that Rudy has to work on that is a problem right now, and it was a problem in Utah, is he does not catch the ball, man. You know, there's been Dilo's thrown some great lobs to him, and has thrown some passes in traffic that slip through his fingers, or he fumbles or one way or another,

and that reduces the confidence that his teammates have in him to engage him more in the offense. Like you said, he, he does. does have capabilities of being a passer of facilitating a little bit more. We saw that in Eurobasket with France. But right now I think that there is a hesitation on some players' parts because they've tried that. And Rudy is turning the ball over.

And so if they can get that kind of stuff down and shored up a little bit, then I do think things are going to open up here. And it is going to be interesting to watch them over these next four to six weeks while Kat is out because they are going from playing. and very unconventionally to now very conventionally. You have a big and a wing, attacking off spread, pick, and roll. And that might just be a more natural fit right now for them. And then they can kind of layer on top of that if they can start to kind of simplify

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We've been really diligent and responsible talking about nuts and bolts, timber wolf stuff, but I want to get a little spicy. Yeah. And aggregators, relax. This is all speculation, conjecture, things that I heard through the grapevine. but I heard John Krasinski and you know you're on the ground so please let me know if you've heard anything similar or whatever

I heard Alex Rodriguez in his group missed the deadline for a payment involved in the transition of this team's ownership is that true is A Rada broke boy is this thing not going to happen that is not true was the deadline for the next payment that they have is December 31st So I will tell you that there are people around the league that have their doubts about Alex Rodriguez and Mark Lorry being able to come up with the money that they need to complete the transaction. That's been a real sort of point of speculation since they came on. So you're not inaccurate in terms of hearing questions about their ability to close the deal. I can tell you that boots on the ground here speaking to Glenn. who is the man in charge of this whole thing, he does not have doubts yet about that.

He believes in these guys. He has a good relationship with them. He thinks that all of this is going to go through from everything I've heard from the A-Rod and Lorry side of things. They maintain they're on track and that things are in control. Now, we will see. I mean, there are deadlines that come. And so sooner or later, the rubber is going to meet the road there.

But everybody internally right here in Minnesota is very confident that it's all going to work out, that everything is in place and going forward very smoothly. But there is a lot of speculation swirling outside of Minnesota about the ability of this group to close that deal. But so far from everyone that I've talked to directly involved, they maintain that everything is good. We will see how that all works out. but I'm going to just kind of believe that until I have evidence of otherwise. And Alex Rodriguez and Lori are still at all of these games. They're very much involved. They're trying to plan for the future.

They were huge in hiring Tim Connolly away from Denver. And so they remain huge fixtures here and they're fully confident they're going to do it. So we'll see. But that's the feeling on the ground here. Well, yeah. And the reason I say that is because like if there's any truth to the idea that these guys, might not be able to afford the team, even at a discount because Glenn Taylor

fucking loves A-Rod for whatever reason. That's a disaster, right? Like, they spearheaded this Rudy deal, gave up all of these assets to do so. They are, for all intents and purposes, sort of steering this ship and made decisions that have very long-term ramifications. And if that doesn't happen,

then, you know, I think that'll be highly problematic. and just one more spicy thing. If this thing, I don't think so, and I honestly want to see it work, but if this thing keeps going in a direction where it feels like it's not going to work as optimally as people like me and you thought that it would when the deal went down,

why isn't Carl Towns the odd man out here? I don't know that he isn't, to be honest with you. Now, I think that obviously, So we watched the game last night against Memphis. They play well defensively. They win the game without Carl Anthony Towns. There's an immediate jump to, oh, okay, trade him. Do you make this Ants team?

Let's go. And it's just like slow down here for that because I will tell you that one of Anthony Edwards, big things so far has been inconsistency. Like he will play great one night and he will play poorly. and detached the next night. And that is a 21-year-old. That's just what they do while they're figuring things out. It's nothing against him.

He's just trying to figure out how to be consistent. So we will see how he plays against OKC on Saturday and see if that's different. But there's going to be some knee-jerk reaction early if they play decently and like, okay, this is it. I believe that Carl Anthony Towns is a big part of their plans going forward. They very much want him and Rudy to play together. They believe it can work. And so all of the plans are to go forward with this group.

That said, if we get to the end of the season and they're in the lottery and you are looking at a season long sample of this roster construction just not working, well, they gave up a ton of picks and assets for Rudy Gobert. How would you recoup those assets the quickest, right? you're not trading Anthony Edwards. That's not an option. So maybe it is. You look at finding a better fit for Carl somewhere else

and recouping some of those draft picks, getting some different kind of players in a package that fit better around, you know, Aunt and Jaden McDaniels and Rudy, because Jaden McDaniels, I think, is going to be a really, really good player in this league for a long time. So there is that option available to them. Again, I will stress, stress, stress.

They don't want to do that. They don't plan to do that. But it's not like they are stuck in a corner if this doesn't work. Like there's a lot of doom and gloom out there right now of like they've lost everything. There's nothing. They have no outs here. No, they have a big out if they really have to do it in a way of resetting a little bit. So I don't anticipate that to happen.

I know they don't want that to happen. But if for whatever reason, this thing really collapses, and there's just no hope that this group is going to work together, they have other options going for that being the big bullet to fire, to kind of have another significant recasting of what they're going to do here. Yeah, I think the hard truth and reality of sports is that it's a results-based business. And with Carl Towns, if this just straight up does not work, the cold reality is that the best you've ever done for us amidst an innumerable amount of roster

construction types is six games in the first round my brother at a certain point it's not me it's you you know how when you break up with a chick you say it's not you to me yeah it's not me it's not me it's you Carl Towns, you're the issue. We got you everything. And it's never worked. And the bottom line is, John, I've seen second round teams, first seeds in the West,

all kinds of success based around teams that were built around Rudy Gobert. What the hell has Carl Towns yielded for his franchise with teams built around him? And now with this latest, where it's like we literally get a guy that covers all of your deficiencies and it still don't work. It becomes an obvious truth. Like, you know, if we want to reset or change things up around

here, it's got to be called towns and for all the reasons you just so perfectly laid out. But yeah, I think the Timberwolves remain a fascinating team from ownership to management to roster construction, to play style to all of that. And I'll definitely be watching them this year. Obviously, I love reading your coverage and paying attention to what you're doing with the team. John, obviously, these people know where to find you. But please tell the people where they could find you and your incredible work. I appreciate it.

Was, last thing on Towns before we go, a reminder for everyone who likes to blame him. He has had seven GMs and five head coaches in eight years. That's tough. And so it is when, if that preparing were to happen, or partying were to happen and the wolves tried to play that it's not me, it's you card. Towns could play that right back in their face pretty easily. Not exactly a model NBA franchise. Not exactly.

But yeah, so I just wanted to say that. But yes, thanks for having me. You know I love you. And yeah, you can find me on Twitter at John Krasinski, J-O-N-K-R-A-W-C-Z-Y-N-S-K-I. You can find me at The Athletic.com for Timberwolves and NBA cover. sprinkling the little Vikings here and there as well. Trying to get my Instagram game going a little bit if Twitter falls apart. So you can find me on there as well.

But I appreciate it let me on here. It's always great chopping it up with you. Of course, John. And obviously, you know, I love you right back. That's our show for today. Make sure you're checking out all of the other offerings on the Ringer NBA feed, group chat, the answer, real ones. You know what we do over here.

We'll see you guys next week. Weekends with Waz. We're out of here. here peace