The Ringer NBA Show - Mirin Fader on Giannis Antetokounmpo’s Drive, Loyalty, and Hard Work. Plus: The Bucks Win the NBA Finals! | Real Ones

Episode Date: July 22, 2021

Logan and Raja talk all about Game 6 of the 2021 NBA Finals, which the Bucks took to win the whole darn thing (0:42), as well as what this loss means for Chris Paul (17:49). Then Mirin Fader joins the show to talk about her new book, 'Giannis: The Improbable Rise of an NBA MVP,' coming out August 10 (27:07). Then Logan and Raja make some way-too-early predictions about the 2021-22 NBA season (48:06) and Jomi joins to do his final pack watch of this season of basketball (51:04) Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guests: Mirin Fader and Jomi Adeniran Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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slash the ringer so you never miss an episode. What's popping? Logan Murdoch here. Sasha Mac on the boards. Jomey. Jomey in a bit.

We got Raja Bell. Second straight episode. Raja, are you in morning right now? How are you feeling? We are talking the morning after the bucks are the champs over beating

the Phoenix Suns in six games. Honestly, messing up both of our initial predictions for the series, because we both had the Sons and Six. I repositioned and said Bucks in Six after I went to Milwaukee and just drank the Kool-Aid and just fed into all the propaganda. But by and large, our pick were the Sons. How do you feel right now as a Sons fan, a Sons,

luminary? How do you feel right now on the other side of this before we get to the Bucks? I mean, it's tough. Logan, do you remember how much shit I caught when I said the Sons were pretenders? We? No, you mean we caught? We just knew, we caught. Yes, but the vitriol was more towards me. You got the headline.

You did get the headline. Having been a son. So it made it impossible then for me to pick against the sons ever, right? Like I was afraid to do that, keeping it a buck. I did think the sons were the hotter team coming in, though. They had played great. And I was disappointed they didn't win last night. There's a part of me that feels like getting to the finals this year was a win.

Whenever you get there, you want to win it. But, you know, if you started the season and said the sons were going to be in the finals, most people in Phoenix would be like, sign me up, you know what I mean? And so I got mixed emotions about that. I wanted to see them win. But I've also been a Bucks fan and I'm Janice fan for a long time. Like, they've been my team for the last couple of years. And so, you know, while the son's lost and that sucked, I was happy to see Janus put some of the naysayers, you know,

to rest, so to speak, by getting the chip. And they were great games, which as a fan, that's what I'm looking for. And as an analyst, I'm looking for good games with storylines and big point swings. And so I got all of that. So I'm cool. So we're going to talk about the Suns in a bit later. But we had to check out, we had our own Mirren Fader talk about Yonahna. So check out that on the next segment.

But I was, I watched the game last night. I was in Oakland watching the game. And it was a lot of Bucks fans, actually, at where we were at. And, but one of the things that I really just took away from that is just Janus is a champ. Janice Adetakumbo is a champ. And we already know the slander that he has gotten over the last few years. Some warranted, some not necessarily warranted. But let me put, let me give you, you're a numbers guy, rise.

Let me, let me throw some numbers your way for this. for his stats on the series, 35.2 points, 13.2 rebounds, 62% from the field. And he had 50 in a close-out game at home. And a game that was in the balance for most of the time. He was,

I know that the shack thing, the shack comparison is a bit, yeah, but the man was like carrying dudes on his back and still making shots. He was incredible last night. What did you see from Janice in the series and what did you see from him in game six? Well, in the series overall, I mean, he just, you know, he dominated on both sides of the ball.

You know, he did what top three players in the leagues are supposed to do. They're supposed to have, you know, that type of impact both offensively and defensively, right? Like, that game's not just played scoring the ball. I've had this conversation about other players before. Like, a lot of people can score. Can you hold it down, you know, in other areas of the game? to get your team over the hump. And I thought Janus, at times in the series,

was able to kind of chill offensively when other people were cooking and, you know, facilitate and just defend and bored and all of that. And then when the time called for it, like last night at third quarter, say, yo, get on my back. Here we go. And, you know, he just dominated like that.

Last night might have been his best performance. You know, admittedly, I haven't seen every Janus game. So I can't say unequivocally that it's this best. But in a game, that mattered the most on the biggest stage with the brightest lights, a 50 ball with 13 and 6, with 16 for 17 or whatever it was from the free throw? I mean, 17 of 19 from the free throw. Whatever it was.

I mean, it could have been his best performance. And you talk about just putting it all together, the defense, the shot making, the, you know, the different type of shots that he was able to finish around the room. Like, it was a lot of cool stuff to see from somebody who basically just told you. Like, you better consider me the best player in the game right now. Like, we can have a debate, but don't leave me out. Listen, this is how good Yanis was. Jew holiday was four of 19 from the field.

Right. Chris Middleton, as we texted back and forth, had his struggles in game six. It didn't fucking matter. Janus was at every loose ball. He had every, he made every single play down the stretch. they counted him down all playoffs long about his free throws. He said, don't even trip. I'm going to make 17 of 19, okay?

Shut up. Please shut up. I'm the man. And it was, I would agree with you in that it's his best performance, but you can make the argument might not be his best performance. It is the career defining performance of his, it's the defining performance of his career thus far. In the defining series of his career.

because he had this great game, then we're forgetting about the block in game, game three, right? You're thinking, like, he carried this team. The dunk in game five? The dunk in game five? Like, it's just, come on, man. It was just, and remember, this guy hurt his knee two weeks ago

in a way that we didn't think he was going to be back. That's the crazy thing, right? Like, this, that cat looked like he tore every ligament in his leg, two weeks ago, three weeks ago. Yeah. You know, I watch a lot of basketball. I've been a, you know, NBA fan from the time I was probably eight years old.

This is your life. Yes. This is what I do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 50 balls in close-out games of the finals, I don't remember having seen one. I don't remember. I know they probably exist, but I don't remember seeing one.

Yeah. Yeah. Particularly, though, I think that for this team and this type of year, they needed this type of performance from Yonis, because even after this, and I obviously yield the floor to you, it did. didn't look like the two best teams in the league were playing, right? Like, as far as depth, we're playing against each other. As far as depth on the sons, we saw that with Aiden getting into foul trouble.

Also, shout out Frank Kaminsky for giving like real minutes in an NBA finals game. I wasn't expecting that. Our bad. Our bad. Yeah, yeah, you shut us the fuck up. But anyway, I didn't get the sense of that. And also the Bucks, I got the sense that Janus needed to be this for them to have a chance. He needed to take a next level approach.

I don't know if this is going to happen next year. I don't know if he could do this next year and beyond, or I don't know. But for this particular year and this particular series, they needed this Janus from, they needed this Janus in order to win a title. Why do you feel like he was so effective against this son's team, Rajah?

First of all, Janus is going to be doing this. Let's get that straight. He's not going anywhere. He's only going to give him. better. He's 26 years old. He's going to continue to, he's going to continue to add stuff to his bag. So let's get that straight. Why he was so dominant against the sons. Well, I mean, he dominated everybody. I mean, it's what he does. Logan, like he's a two-time MVP. It's what he does. But he was able to be as effective as he was against the sons because of their lack of size

and his ability to just will and bully his way to bucket. It's not to take. taking anything away from his brilliance offensively on the floor and the way he's able to assist. And he's great, but they just weren't big enough. They didn't have enough. And this is what I find interest in. And a day and age where we don't have any bigs and bigs don't want to be big and we're going to all shoot threes. Like, you know what the last three teams that won championships? You know what they were?

Who are they, Roger? Speak on it. Big as shit. They were big. They were bullies. Honestly? They were physical. Okay.

They get to the free throw line. There's a reason. That's tried and true shit. Let's run it down real quick. Because you're on to something. Who won it this year? The Bucks. Huge team.

Who won't it last year? The Lakers. Huge team, right? Before that, the Raptors. The Raptors. They're a big-ass team. Big team. Had Abaka, had Pascal Seacum.

Gasol. Gasol. Kawai. Just bully type of big people, man. Let's talk about the year before that. Who wanted? Who won the title? The Warriors, right?

Who do they have? They had Zazaa Pachulia. They had Zavelle McGee. They had, and then they had Kevin Durant, who was a seven-footer in Congar Biggs, right? You go throughout all that time, big, I think people get misconstrued when it comes to Biggs, because it's not like you, you don't need a big from 1995. You need an evolve big. It's basketball. You need these positions, okay?

and even in the life of like positionless basketball, that works in the regular season. In the postseason, you know what you need. But what I want to do, let's talk about the game a little bit. What did you see from the Phoenix Suns? Because this series has evolved so much from game one to game six. What did you see in game six that you didn't see in games one and two? Because it just seemed like they were a shell of themselves that the series wore on.

Yeah, I think the, effect of being the smaller team, like started to have a cumulative, like, effect on the suns, if that makes sense. I know there was a lot of effects in there. But, you know, they were fresh early in the series. They're a team that works on movement, player movement, ball movement. They shoot a lot of jumpers. And while those are going in, that's great.

And when you're fresh, they tend to do that more often. But as the series wears on and you're playing every other night and you're getting banged around by some of these bigger teams. especially when you've got a Drew Holiday they can go over there and put out of Chris Paul fire for a while hop over there on D-Book and make his life hard.

PJ Tucker is a menace defensively. Like that Milwaukee Bucks team is a hell of a defensive squad. And I think it started to kind of take its toll on the Sons. And the other part of the game that Milwaukee really dialed into that I thought the Sons had the advantage

in, at least in game one, was all the 50-50 loose ball, who does this mean more to type of plays? Right. And I'm not saying that Milwaukee won that over the course of the series every game, but they certainly didn't lose it like they lost it in game one. And so as soon as they got tuned into like,

hey, man, we can't let the suns just pounce on every loose ball and get offensive rebounds and come in here. And I think, you know, it just kind of wore on the suns. Their ability to get easy baskets like they got in games one and two started to dissipate, right? Like the bucks were challenging everything. And a challenge by Drew Holliday, who's a six-five point guard, is a real challenge.

Like it's affecting your vision as a shooter that started to have an effect. There were some plays. I mean, I know I said Drew Holiday's shooting percentage. Honestly, it didn't really matter. Like, Drew was there to be a pest on both guards and he did exactly that. There was a steal that he had on DeBook late in the game where it was just incredible, where he knew where book was going, beat him to the spot and then got a strip into an easy layup. And then we saw in game five where he got the, where Drew got the, it was a little like a hell ball, but he got the strip, the huge strip in game five.

I think the biggest thing that we saw to that, that changed the series, and you really saw it in game six was, I think the bucks just figured out like, yo, all we have to do is just beat the shit out of this team. And it's not that the sons aren't tough. I'm not saying that. It's that they just don't have depth and they don't, they only have one real true big. And they're not big enough. They're not big enough. And I think the Bucks finally realized that in the second half of game three, we're like, no, we can beat the shit out of them.

And once we put the gas on them and just go down and go to the cup and just be aggressive, we can overpower this team. And you saw that with the Aden had five fouls and really was out of his rhythm in game six. When did you see that the series started to shift? Game two. I told you game two. Game one, they were not tuned in to where their advantage was lying. like the Bucks that is.

They just were shooting jump shots. It was a pretty, if you will, quote unquote, pretty style of game. Like, we're going to play in all of this space. We're going to try to out shoot you. That plays squarely into the sun's hands. Like, that's what they needed to do to win this series. And they did it great in game one. I told you in game two, the Bucks had a different mindset.

Like, they had put the hard hat on. The lunch pails were out. Phoenix just really, really shot it well. I don't remember now how many threes they had, but they shot at a, like, at a super high clip. and Milwaukee wasn't able to overcome it. But in game two, I started to see them, you know, kind of change the momentum and switch the physicality of the game to more in their favor style of play.

You saw that manifest itself, Logan, or at least I did, in Phoenix's, what looked to be, like, complaining to the officials all night long? You didn't see the bucks complain at all. Is that a telltale sign when you see that, though? You didn't see the box. You didn't see the bucks crying at all. Like they were, that says like, yes, but I mean, we're getting the calls, but, but, you know, we're the more physical team out here.

And referees are human. The more physical, more aggressive team usually gets away with more. It's just the way it goes because they can't call all of it, right? So if you come out of the blocks, you know, hitting, grabbing, pushing, shoving, attacking, you know, they might call one or two, but eventually they got less some of that go. And if you're the team that's on your heels and you're not doing it early and then you try to turn it on like in the fourth quarter, the rest are like, oh, shit, you ain't been that foul. So, you know, you saw the sons, you know, for lack of better way to put it.

Like, there was a lot of, like, looking at the refs and wondering why we didn't get that foul. Like, oh, my God, I just got hit. Oh, is that. And, you know, that speaks to who was more aggressive, in my opinion. Yeah. One of the things in you, I think it was game, it was game five when you texted us, I don't have a good feeling about this with the sons when they were up. They were up big and you're like, I don't have a good feeling about this.

They also took a brief lead in the second quarter. They outscored the Bucks second quarter of game six, 31 to 13. Did you still have that sense that like it wasn't good that the sons weren't going to win this even when they had that lead? Were you like, oh, the sons might make this a game seven. How did you feel during that time? So my range of a, like I was sitting there, my wife was sitting with me and she looked at it. Did you have a cheering interest? Were you cheering for the sons?

in this one? Yeah, I was pulling this. My whole house was pulling for the Sons. You know, we were all sitting there. Like, we love Phoenix. But when Milwaukee went up, my wife was like,

oh, this is going to be whack. Because we want to see good games, too. Like, she was like, oh, this is going to be a blowout. And I said, no, it's not. Like, the Sons will be right back in it. And believe it or not, boom, the Sons were right back in the game.

Now, I didn't have the same sense that I had that it was going to be bad for the Bucks. I thought the Sons could, what I didn't know was going to happen, was what Yannis did in that third quarter. Yeah. It's what superstars have to do. When it's in doubt,

it's what the sons weren't able to do in the other game, which was that superstar stand up and say, I'm not letting us lose this. Don't worry. Generational superstars. There's difference right here. There's levels.

I'm going to put another level to the tier. There is. And I'm not, for sure. And I'm not throwing shade at anybody. I'm simply saying this is what Yonnas did. And I couldn't account for it in the second quarter last night.

I didn't know it was going to happen. He just literally. literally said, hey, man, give me the ball, and I'm going to, I'm going to will us to this. And when you, when you're a me, like a role player and you see Janus do that, man, it takes a load off, bro. It does because you're able to, like, I'm comfortable in my own skin. Like, he's doing what he's supposed to do. And now it frees me up to do what I'm supposed to do.

You know what I mean? And so, you know, that's what happened. Let's go to the other side of this. We talked about Yonis, but I do want to go to the other side of this and talk about, um the sons particularly chris paul now chris paul had a hell of a game chris paul 26 um 5 um 8 11 of 19 like he bawled he did what he had to do and but coming into the series we were saying like you know this is this is this is chris paul's probably last best shot or one of his last best shots we don't know what the future holds shit the sons might go to the finals again i doubt it but like they might um but you could see in the presser just how discharging He was. He wasn't saying, he wasn't given like the normal, you know, thought, not thoughtful answer, but he wasn't given a long, like, long answers. He was given more of like, you could tell

he was very somber and disappointed. Is this the last shot for Chris, man? Like, I think it, I don't know, man. As a finals at this step, I think it might be. Well, it could be. I think that depends on where Chris Paul winds up, Logan, if I'm keeping it a buck. I don't, Phoenix Nation is probably not going to love to hear this, but I don't know. Yeah, I don't know that they'll be back in the finals next year. I mean, I'm not saying that they won't, but if you made me pick today, there are probably other favorites in the Western Conference that I would, that I would pick to go before them next year. And, you know, the clock is ticking on what Chris Paul or opportunities that he

would have left at that. You know, I think you saw a player last night who realized, man, that was, that was the opportunity, right? Like, and you're not going to get many of those. That was his first finals. And Chris Paul has an appreciation because he's so, you know, he's been in the game so long for how hard it is to get there. I went to a finals in my first, I don't know, two months as an NBA player. When we lost that finals while it sucked, I thought I was going to go every year. So, so, you know, you're like, oh, fuck it. We'll be back next year.

And then you're after that. And then you didn't get to go back after that, right? 13 years go by and you ain't never been back to the finals again. But the perspective is what you saw in Chris Falls' face last night. It was like, damn, dog, like, I've never been here. We were up 2-0. I'm however old I am, and that shit got away from us. And that had to be tough.

Yo, we were watching this game. Me and a couple of homies went to go watch the game in Oakland. And there was, we were at this place called Matt Oak. We were at this, like, this bench seating, like picnic-style seating. So we were sitting with another party. And, you know, you ask who you want to win and things like that. And this lady, she was so awesome. She was like, who you want to win?

She was like, Chris Paul. And they were like, why? And she said, because he hella old. And he ain't going to get back to this point again. I was like, hell yeah. And then when the, because we have people in our party who are bucks fans. And she, shout out to her, man. But she, when they were, the people in our party were like,

cheer and she shot us a look and was like and she was great and then smiled her and she was great about it but yo man that that was a sentiment shout out to the to the homie and saying like it is like Chris's hell of old so and he's hell of good but he's just still

like that's one of those things you would really if say if he goes back you have to really be careful with him next year right you sign it and say if he stays with the sons that means low management I said this in the previous thing in a previous episode, if he has to score like 11, 12 points a game just to get him to the postseason, that's fine.

Like, it doesn't matter, but you have to really manage Chris Paul next year if he stays back. What do you, if he comes back, what do you think about the Sons next year and their prospects to think? I know they're a playoff team. They're a fringe contender, but I don't know if they get back. What do you think about the Sons for next season? All right. Let me answer to because I found something you said really interesting there in any of the one. The operative phrase was if, right?

And I'd like to touch on that. But let me answer your question first. They are squarely in the conversation for top four seed in the Western Conference next year. I got the Lakers, right? I think, I mean, I don't know what Kauai's health looks like, but I'm going to take, you know, Denver's going to be loaded again. Jamal Murray will be back. Dallas, you know, Luca and them aren't going anywhere. They're only going to get better.

Warriors fringe. The Warriors. I mean, so they're going to be in the mix. I just, if you made me pick them or the field, like I picked the field for going to the finals, right? In the Western Conference, so I can't say that they're my favorite to go back. You're going to, I told you, if Chris goes back and let's get to the if in a second, you've got to have, you know, either campaign or, you know, a really, really good can carry the mill type of backup PG because you do have to monitor him to some degree. Now, here's where I find it interesting, and I'm interested to hear your tape. If you're Chris Paul and you've said, hey, man, I have three more years, right?

This is what I got, I got three more years of juice. And I just tasted the finals. And it's finals are busts for me. Like, that's what I'm in it for. It's not about bread. I don't know how many much money is earned a boatload. But do the sons represent that? Right? I mean, I'm just asking. I mean, I'm not saying they don't. I'm asking.

I think that the sons, they can because they're so young. Finals are bust, Logan. Finals are busts. This is what I'm saying. Logan Murdoch next year, you have your pick of the litter of places to go. And you must get to the finals. Is it the sons? This is, okay, I think it could be. The reason why is because the Western Conference, there's so many question marks, right? The Lakers, can they say healthy enough? man. Like, can LeBron and AD stay healthy enough? The Clipper is out of there. They're not going to be there because Kauai's not going to, Kauai's not playing. Can Dallas take the next step? Can the nuggets be more than a, can the nuggets be more than a really good team? I don't know. Can they be more than a, can the warriors more than a friend? Can the warriors just turn it on, right? What's going to have? There's so many question marks that I don't think that there's a definitive team where you're like, okay, if I go here, there, I'm going to go. I'm going to go. go to the finals. I don't know. I can't answer that. Um, so I would honestly, I think if the sun's retool, and maybe I'm in the minority on this, but if the sun's retool, get a backup,

get a backup center. Like I said, I really like Dwight. If Dwight Howard comes on just to be a backup and just, I think he can play really well on that team. Um, if they could get that and then like secure campaign and say campaign just as like, yo, you are, are de facto starting regular season point guard, or you're the one that's going to get a line shared. minutes so we can get Chris Paul in. I think they have a chance, as good as a chance as anyone to get back to the finals. Okay.

Look, I hope they do. I'm just, I thought it was going to be welcome back in Phoenix, man. Is that what we saying right now? I didn't throw no shade at Phoenix. Like, I think they're going to be a really good team.

They're going to be really good team next year. You're going to have some hungry teams out in the West and some teams that are coming back retooled and reloaded. And I'm simply saying, I imagine that Chris Paul is going to wind up in Phoenix. I have no reason to believe that, but we're on here for fucking entertainment's sake. And so my question is, like, if you're putting a gun to somebody's head and saying, hey, throw nostalgia out the window, throw like good feelings and vibes out the window, like, what represents your best chance to get where you want to go next year? Yeah.

I don't know. I mean, I hear you. I'm not saying that I'm not giving you any different scenario. I just think that's an interesting question, right? Because we were talking about whether the sons bring him back. They kind of have to. I think they have to. Yeah, but what the flip side of it is.

Is that where you're going back? I don't know. I think so. And I think that they are contenders with that. Bucks, I don't know. I don't know. Wait a minute. Hold the fuck up.

You go to, wait. You're going to say to me. You're going to say to me on air with motherfuckers listening. Because now I'm all in my bag. I'm SEC and all that shit. You're going to say to me that the sons are final contenders. And then in the next breath, say Milwaukee, the team that just beat them, I don't know. Well, you better hide your damn face on that, man.

With the best, possibly the best player in the planet on the planet. Excuse me. You're right, you're right, you're right. You're right. You know how you was just trying to bring up bullshit with the CP thing? You know how you were trying to just bring up bullshit? Like, maybe he might leave. Maybe you might leave.

I was just, you know, I was just ruffling the feathers, man. I'm sorry. Yo, they'll be back. They might repeat. Fuck, I'm sorry. Okay. I was just trying to be a, what they, I don't know what it is. What they said, I don't know, man.

I was trying to be an asshole. Anyway, let's take a quick break. Speaking of Milwaukee, let's take a quick break. We're going to go talk to Mirren Fader about Janus has come up. This is a really, really dope conversation. Check that out. And we are back. Roger Bell here.

Logan Murdoch here. We have a special guest in the building, Roger. The author of the forthcoming book, Janice, The Improbable Run of an MBA MVP. We got Mirren Fader and the motherfucker built it. How are you doing? How are you? I'm chilling, man.

Have you ever been introed like that, Marin? I was going to say, I was going to say, like, I need you to just be with me everywhere, Logan, so we could just introduce me like that because nobody has ever said it like that. We locked in. I know you did another podcast

that we're not going to speak on right now, but I bet they didn't introduce you like this. You know they didn't. Raja, I wanted to get her on because I believe that she is about to release the definitive book on Yonnas Andetakumba. And I wanted to get her on the morning after he wins his first title because she just dropped an excerpt, Raja, on the ringer.com, which you guys can all check out. Basically, there's a part in there where it talks about something that I know is near and dear to your heart, Raja, the Batman and Robin argument. And there is a part in there where someone says,

Raja, hold tight because I know you're going to be fuming when you hear this anecdote. When he was younger, when he was getting into the league, I think they were pairing him with a younger star that was Brandon Knight. And somebody suggested that they could be the Batman and Robin together. And then Janus would be the Robin to Brandon Knight's Batman. that was a thing that happened and Yannis said what the f and no

and just paraphrasing it here he's like what the fuck what? I'm about to be Batman here where how do you feel about hearing that Raja and then I'm going to go to Mirian to see where that comes from do you feel him on that rock

well first of all let's just take a step back when he's coming into the league I think that could be fair to say that because no one really knew and he didn't look the way he looks now and his game wasn't as well-rounded as it was. So I will forgive whoever said that at the time. I fully understand where Janus was coming from. Like, that's why he is who he is. I don't, don't paint me into a corner or put me into a box. Don't label it. Like, my ceiling is whatever I say

it is. That approach is what's allowing him to continue to prove naysayers wrong, you know, time after time. So, like, I'm going to forgive that one, Logan. Anyone who says it now, I've already done this on a pot. I've ranted and I've raved. I don't want to hear that. But at the time, to sweat now. There's a little forgiveness. Yeah. Yeah.

I want to go to you, Mirren, on top of that, as we talk about in your excerpt, which you can read on the ringer.com right now, about his legendary work ethic.

Do you think that when that comment was made, him saying, no, I'm going to be Batman. Do you feel like that has more to do with, man,

I worked for this. I wanted this. And this is where I'm going to, um, this is what I belong at at, and this status because, I worked for it. Do you think of that that had a play to part or was there more to it than that?

I mean, it played a big part. First of all, like, not only did he work his ass off during a 15-win season, he literally was the only one who came in and gave flashes of something, you know, like that was a horrible team. He came in there and he had energy. He had defense. He at times looked like the best player that they had. but compared to, you know, where he is now, as Rajah said, he was nowhere near close, but he always had this confidence, like, okay, I know my body's not there yet. I know I literally look like a toothpick, but I believe in myself. And he would tell people like, I'm going to be good next year. Oh, I'm going to average 15 and 10.

And you could look at that and you could say arrogance, or you could say that's somebody that's being very intentional about who he is and what he wants because he knows he works. he would be in the gym until like 1 a.m. just very early in the morning. He knew what he was capable of. Even if he hadn't reached it yet, he was going to get there. Real quick story, Logan, I don't mean to hijack you. I know you have more questions. But I've touched on this before.

When I spent that first year in Cleveland, my job was to walk around pregame, you know, talk to people on other teams, get a feel for their players. And whatever they would divulge, you know, that kind of goes into the file. So I was chopping up with my buddy Robert Hackett at the time. Rob Hackett had been this train. and conditioning coach in Dallas when I was with the Mavs, and he was with Milwaukee at the time. And I asked him about Janus, who was like all of, I don't know, 207 pounds at the time, just gangly and long. And he told me, he said, look, man, this kid is going to be something special.

He says, and he's been around Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzky, Michael Finley, like really, really good players. You? He said, yeah, well, I mean, I was a hard worker too, but he said this kid works like very few people work. And, you know, I asked him a few questions and he said, dude, he's in the gym, you know, when no one else is there? Like, he is addicted to the work? And I asked him, I said, is he a good kid? Is he humble? Like, is his head down? He said, Ra, he's got everything it takes to be a superstar in this league. And this was prior to him really, you know, becoming the Janus that we know now. So people around him knew that. So it's interesting to hear Mirren, like, actually, you know, have the background and do the homework to find those stories because I had one, you know, similarly back in the day.

Well, and here's the thing. Robert Hackett. First of all, great guy, love talking to him. He said that when Janice came there, he didn't even know how to waitlift. Robert Hackett is teaching an NBA player to waitlift for the first time. That's insane. And he was saying the bar, the bar would just tremble. But Janus was like, we're going to stay until I get it right. We're going to stay.

And he became obsessed. You know, any other person might feel ashamed like I'm so behind. Janice was like, no, teach me. I want to learn. There was no ego. You could mold him because he was a great listener. Yeah, that's great. That actually transitions well into my next question because last night in the press conference,

he says eight years ago when I came into the league, I didn't know where my next meal was coming from. My mom was still selling stuff in the street. Now I'm sitting here at the top of the top. When you were reporting out this book, how much of his background being, you know, coming to a new country and coming to these new places, how much did that shape how his work ethic was? Because in a lot of ways, when you read his story, there was no going back. There was, I can't go back. I am going to figure this out.

And he has a whole family to take care of. And you see the, as soon as he won the title, he went to, he went and he searched out his family last night. What, how much of his beginning shaped where he is right now and that work ethic that where I'm not going to quit. I'm going to keep doing this. We're going to figure it out. I mean, it shaped everything. You know, first of all, Janus began playing basketball at age 13, but he didn't actually like really start playing regularly until age 16 because he had to go sell with his family. So I think a lot of people don't realize that is like he is still so young in his basketball days because he spent so much time working off the floor.

He would have to leave for like two weeks at a time. His family would travel to these upscale beaches to sell things. And, you know, basketball was just an afterthought. He's like, why would I put into this when I have so many. pressing concerns outside of basketball. So you look at that and you're like, if I literally don't sell these items, we're not eating tonight or looking at your dad, you know, his dad, Charles, will go without for two days if it meant that Janus and his brothers would eat. So, you know, basketball, the work ethic that you see, it is informed by every single thing that happens

off the floor. You know, and Janus would pretend that he had eaten so that he could give his portion to his brothers. So that's a different type. of work ethic and survival tactic that he learned so young. And so when you look at what we just talked about like, man, I'm not as strong as the people in the league. Man, like, Zach Randolph is, is having his way with me. Okay, but I know what it's like to not have a meal. So it doesn't compare as far as like the work ethic required and what what difficult really is. Hunger is a true motivator, right? Like when you, you want something. I want to ask you, I have a lot of questions I'd like to ask. But I mean,

Let me start here. In his earlier days, when he was the guy struggling to lift the bar, there's perspective clearly from where he comes from and understanding that this is still a great opportunity. But was there ever, it didn't click right away. Was there ever any pressure that almost derailed it from a family feeding standpoint? From I've got a lot of people dependent on me to get this done. Did he ever talk about that? Yeah, he felt a lot of pressure because even though Thanasis was the oldest, even though obviously

his dad was still alive then, Janus became the breadwinner. So he was the man now. Everything that happened went through him. Bills paid through him. Everything through him. There was one staffer I talked to that randomly went to Janus's apartment to pick him up and he sees a bunch of envelopes in a suitcase. And he's like, what are you doing with all these envelopes and they're filled with money? And that's, that's his per diem for every day. And the guy was like, why do you have all these? And Janice is like, oh, I'm not spending them. Like, they're for my family.

And so, you know, you look at a guy who's like sole purpose, like tunnel vision is like, I have to perform because I have to feed my family. One of the most probably intense anecdotes that I found during my reporting and this subject matter is that Janice was the only player on the bucks to not set up direct deposit because he had to feel the money in his hands and send it manually because he could. couldn't trust it. So, you know, so relatable. But like, you know, I just, I feel like it's just, the pressure that was on him was so much more than like, can you morph into a two-way player that is dominant. It was just like, how can I take care of my family? And keep in mind, they weren't

able to come to America until midway through the season. So, you know, a big part of the book was Janus's just true feelings of loneliness and feeling lost because his parents got denied visas twice. So, you know, had the Bucks not had a senator owner in Earp Cole, I don't know if the family would have came there and I don't know if Janus would have stayed. What were the, what were the difficulties for them to get that visa? Or why didn't they? Why do they need something that drastic for them to get to America? So in Greece, even if you're born there, you don't get birthright citizenship. So even though Janus and the NASA's got their citizenship right at the last moment, like two months before Janus,

was drafted because the Greek government realized that he was going to be in the NBA and the NASA's potentially could as well. But they didn't give it to his mom, Veronica. They didn't give it to his dad, Charles. They didn't give it to Alex or Costa see other brothers. So again, they're only giving it to them because they think that they can make Greece look good and he could be in the NBA and be a star. So the family is still undocumented. And so they're filling out so much paperwork. Like Alex, the youngest brother was telling me, we just be filling out paperwork over and over. And the way that Greece works is just, it is so hard for black migrants, even those that, like, were born in Greece and therefore should have citizenship like we do in America,

they'll take you to the place to get papers. And then they'll be like, oh, you don't have this document. They'll come back. Oh, you don't have this document. You know, it's just an insanely difficult process. And so the family got denied their visas twice. And, you know, one of the the biggest reveals in the book, I think is that Janus told his brothers and his agents, if you guys can't come here, I'm going back to Greece. So imagine if they didn't get citizenship, like, Greek freak would not be a thing. Yeah. It's funny because it's like, you know, there's a complicated relationship with Janus and Greece, and I'm sure that you're going to touch on it in the book. Just moving along real quick, you guys should read her book when it comes out.

What's the date on that, Mary? August 10th. August 10th, go check that out. But there was also an excerpt, something in the excerpt that I really did find interesting, as you put out on the ringer.com that you guys need to go check out. But his relationship with Jason Kidd, which is really interesting to me because, and it's kind of pertinent because he is now a head coach again. But a lot of people are divided on Jason Kidd, the head coach, right? And also divided by extension, Jason Kidd, the man and the person for all.

the reasons that are already out there. But why did his methods against his mind games that he would play with players? I think there was one in a note you put out where he, did he suspend someone? He suspended Don Maker or reprimanded Don Maker because he didn't have an iPhone and that was messing up the flow and it did not make him a good teammate because he was the one that was messing up the team group chat. That's one thing that happened.

but to paint that picture, what that being said, he was very hard and manipulative towards his players in Milwaukee. What made that effective for Janus? So Jason Kidd did not treat Janus in the same way he went at other players. So if he's, you know, berating one guy, he's not berating Janus,

but he did want Janus to speak up. And Janus is that guy in the back of the class that's like, please don't call me, please don't call me, please don't call me. And Kid was like, I'm calling on you. And so he would make Janus speak up in the film room and just say, like, what were you thinking here? What were you doing? And it's humiliating to get called out like that. It's almost like a college thing, you know?

And like running sprints, it's almost like being in college again, you know? So Jason was able to get the best out of Janus because he treated him a bit differently. But he also challenged him. I mean, he sat Janus because Janus was not bringing the intensity he needed. in a practice. Again, I don't, you know, Raja, you can speak on this. He sat up for a game. Yes, Roger, you can speak on this more than I can. That is to do that to one of your best players in the NBA is something, right? Yeah, that's a rare. I would say that's a rare thing. That's a rare thing. So, you know, but Jason was just so, it would be easy if Jason was a loud yeller, right, if he just tries to like tear your heart out.

But he wasn't like that. It was so much more manipulative. And, you know, as much as, uh, those are that there are in this chapter. There are so many that were just completely off the record that people were like, I'm afraid I don't want you to put this because I don't want it to look like it's coming from me. So like just a very, very divisive person. But I will say, he put the ball in Janus's hands and he said, I think you can be point guard. Nobody can stop you downhill. Go to the basket. I think he was instrumental in Janus's development. I think Janus would have excelled no matter who was coach. But I do give Jason Christ. it for all his good and bad for believing in Janus and believing that he had that potential.

I mean, I don't know if Janus has ever addressed this. I mean, clearly, there are different motivating factors for different people. You know, Janus, family securities first and foremost. But now, you know, that's happened in your multiple time MVP and you've got the bag secured. Motivation now, clearly championships are one of them. But does Janus, I mean, he does a great job at press conferences. Like, he really does, for a guy who, who there can be a bit of a language barrier at times, like, you know, he is phenomenal in expressing himself and keeping humble and just really self-deprecating in some of those interviews.

Is he on a quest to be? Like, does he ever acknowledge he wants to be one of the greatest of all times? Like, I don't know if he's ever said that publicly. Is that something that he, that he quests to do? Like, is that on his mind? It is, but I think his goal is bigger than that. it was Costa who told me like one of the main things we want as a family is to all do it together on one team. And he's like, we don't really talk about that often, but that's a dream that we have.

So I think although yes, Yonis wants to be one of the greatest ever do it, his goals are more about his brothers and wants them to succeed. One quote that really stood out to me in my research on this topic was from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. And Yonis was telling them this was like two years ago, maybe three years ago. Yonis was saying that like, everyone around me is telling me I could be the face of the league. But then I hear things like I don't have enough American slagger or, you know, I can't be the face of the league because I don't talk like an American. I still have my accent. I still, I'm this way.

I'm different. But then he said, if I can't be the face of the league, then being, if I'm not myself, then I don't want to be the face of the league. And I thought that was such a profound quote because to me it's like, yeah, you want to be one of the grades, but you also want to be yourself. And he's maintained that authenticity. And what he's found is that you can be great and still be yourself. He's just very different. He's not into social media. He doesn't care about making a fashion statement in the tunnel.

I think he very much just like also just wants to do this exactly as himself. That was a call last night from him about super teams and his importance of the importance to him of trying to win it in Milwaukee. And me and you talked about this about, I think about a year ago when I found out you were doing a book. And you told me, obviously the question was, is Gianna's going to leave? Is he going to go anywhere? Is he going to go to the war? Is he going to go to the heat? He's going to go to the Raptors?

Like, where is he going to go? And you said, I think he's going to, you said I think he's going to stay put. Why did you? It makes sense now. But why is his loyalty to Milwaukee so deep? and do you think that he finishes his career out there? The loyalty is so deep because this is a franchise that he believes took a risk by drafting him. Like he was the gamble.

This is an organization that treated him almost like a son. They gave every family member a key to the gym. I mean, there's one staffer I talked to when the parents' his car broke down. The staffer came and jumped started the car. This is an organization that taught him how to drive, taught him. him how to have proper nutrition, called him every night, texted him, are you okay? Like, this is just a different level of loyalty. You know, they were there for him in his darkest moments when he wasn't Janus, when he was somebody that nobody thought would be anything. So when we talk about

loyalty, it's not just how much Janus loves Milwaukee, it's how much Milwaukee has loved Janus. There was a Twitter account called Greek Freak Alert, 25, his rookie year. And they would tweet when he just subbed in. They just like, Janus is in. Oh my God. You know, it's just the cutest thing. And so it's like, they just loved him when he wasn't even dominant. So he doesn't forget little things like that. He doesn't forget the name of the guy that taped his knees, you know, his second year. He's just like, I want that guy. He has it by name. So when I think of all these anecdotes, I'm like, yeah, it makes so much sense to me that he would want to repay the people that believed in him. And Do I think he's going to say, I don't know.

I hate reporters that pretend they're clairvoyant. I don't know. But I know that it is hard to understate how just unfathomable this is. I mean, I went to Milwaukee right before the world shut down, and I asked Janice, when you were winning 15 games in that polar vortex season in 2013 to 14, did you ever think that you would be a playoff franchise like this? was just like, no, you know, like absolutely not. So, you know, I'm just like, you had to remember, like, the Bucks almost left the city of Milwaukee.

They literally almost left Milwaukee. Yannis saved the franchise from leaving. So why would he leave? Yeah, that's real. It's funny because I just got back from Milwaukee. And I'm very happy for that city. You could just tell how much they love him and how much he loves the city. Thanks so much for coming on, Miriam.

Make sure you guys go pick up her book on Amazon. I'm waiting for my copyright now. Janice, the improbable rise of an NBA MVP. We've got to have you on again, man. Thank you so much for coming on. We'll talk to you soon. Oh, my God. I'd love to.

Thank you guys for having me. Great conversation with Mirian. I want to get into, I want to just be real messy right now, Rajal. Let's get into way too early predictions. We have no context. We don't even know what's going to happen. We have a free agency hasn't happened.

The draft hasn't even happened. Let's go into next year. Who is your next year's MVP Right too early We don't even know what's going to happen Who's going to win the MVP next year? Way too early Just firing shots

Luca Dodges Yeah Luca, I'm going with the Luca Magic, man I don't know why I just been knocking on the door A couple years now I mean,

the usual suspects are going to be there I'm just going to say Luca I'm going to get some shit right now And I'm going to say Kevin Durant He's going to be the MVP next year I think he's going to be the MVP And that's probably

Yeah, you know I think that's going to I know. I know. I know. That's cool. Who's your finals matchup next year? Man.

Yeah, that's it. Man. We don't have it to have free agency. I'm just being real mad. This is way too early. We don't even know what's. Trains happen right now. So I'm going to take the Lakers.

Okay. You're not going to let me throw any caveats in this, right? Like, there's not going to be if if it was a fifth type of conversation. Like, I don't get to say if anything is healthy. Whatever. Fuck it. fucking, I mean, this is,

this is a vacuum. Everyone's healthy. Everyone's healthy. Everyone's healthy. All right. LeBron is healthy. A.D. is healthy. Then I take the Lakers.

I want to say, I want to say the Bucks, but I got to say Brooklyn if everybody's healthy. So, Lakers, Brooklyn. That's corny as shit. I should not do that. No.

Fuck it. Brooklyn, the Bucks and the Lakers. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to say Warriors Nets. Because I'm just saying, fucking warriors nets. All right. Next year.

If only because I just, want to be at home and then go to Brooklyn. I just want to go back and forth. This is very selfish. It's fine. It'll be fun. Warriors Nets. Let's get it.

Who is the, out of that, who is the champion? Who's your champion next year? That's hungry. That's hungry. That's a crown. There's a crown at stake there, sir. There is. There's a crown at stake in the series that I propose.

Because that's basically, I mean, we already, LeBron's not the best player in the league anymore. I'm sorry. But it would be, I mean, He could be next year. I mean, you know, he even, there's a crown mistake. But, but Janus could take that motherfucker in the finals. Just be like, thank you.

I'll take this. This is my, this is my league now. I'll take it. I made it a point not to bet against LeBron. But I'm a bet against LeBron right now. Bucks back to back? Yeah, because it's not happening. Like, it's not.

But I like, I like, I like, you give me, you say Janus or AD to me, bro. You already know where I'm at. I know. I know. So because I proposed the. bucks in the Lakers, I'm going to say the buck. I'm going to go with the Nets then because I think they beat the Warriors

pretty handily. It's not even close. But well, there we go. On that note, we have a special, special, special, special, special, special, special, special segment. Our last of the year. I don't know where he was. We just found him. He hasn't been on the show for a long time.

And I don't know if he, I don't know what's going on, but he made a special appearance. We got. Joe Me! Our C. GMO is back. He has the Nigerian flag behind him. It's time, baby, for Pac-Watch. Jomi, you have a minute to put the Sons on Packwatch. Fuck Roger Bell's feelings. We need to get this off. What do you feel? What do you have to say about the Phoenix Sons on their way out? Well, here's the thing about the Phoenix Sons. I want to say, I want to give my sincere congratulations to them, Monty Williams, Devin Bucker, DeAndre Aden, They played hard.

They fought hard, but it just wasn't their time. So I honestly would feel bad to pack them up. However, I will send a pack to American basketball. It's Nigeria's time. You see in the Olympics, the trials, Nigeria came and beat America. Now, a Nigerian is the finals MVP. Let's get. Nigeria is not your

Israeli is not your sport any more. Madhiyo, Jesu, Ibite Ula, Nigeria is coming for you, America, it's not your sport anymore. It's Nigeria Sparks,

and we will see you at the Olympics. Listen, listen, if Nigeria wins gold at the Olympics, don't, I'm hosting the show that week. Hosting the show. Don't let it happen. By yourself.

By myself. I got the energy. Hey, Sasha, Sasha, Sasha, Sasha, Sasha, flex bombs right now. Flex bombs. Oh, that's called. That's called by Boars. You know nothing about that. But in all seriousness, it's really, I'm really happy to see Janice at the top.

You know, I'm not going to lie. Last year in the playoffs, I was going my jokes out there. You know, I had an agenda. You know, he beat LeBron for the MVP. He beat Anthony Davis for the DPO. You know what I'm saying? I was mad. but you see where he's come from his background, just how nice a guy is.

And to see him at the top is just, it's really beautiful. It's really beautiful scene. You can't hate on that. And it's honestly really, I'm really happy to see him at the top. Thank you, Jomey. You're sweating right now, so you put in a great performance. Good job. Good job, man.

Now, to ruin of the week. I'm going to start this off, man. It's going to just be a theme of this. I'm going to go Yonis Rowan of the week. Rewanis. I'm going to go with him. Nothing further. We've talked about him a lot during this thing.

Rewan of the week. Rewaned this season. Yonis, I did a cumbo. Yeah, I mean, I don't know where you go from there. I'm just double down on that. But you know what? I'm going to go real one of the week, Milwaukee. Like the city, Wisconsin.

You know what I mean? Like keeping the bucks in town. Making sure you lock down. Yeah. Holding down the Greek freak. Now you just need to lock down Aeron. You get Aeron back in the building. You might have two.

championships in the 2021 season. Shout out to Milwaukee, real ones. Shout out to Milwaukee. Thanks to everybody. Shout out to everybody. Thanks for everybody throughout the season, man. Real bout of applause. Shout out to everybody.

Put the clap track on. It's been a pleasure, guys. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks to all the real ones out there. You guys would be great. Thank you guys. You guys show love on the street when I see you, man. Shout out to everybody.

Real one, Sasha Mack, for holding it down. Out out to everybody. Shout out to the peeps. Make sure that you check out our whole feed on the ringer NBA. Make sure you follow along everywhere. Make sure you check out real ones. Mondays, make sure you check out the answer. Make sure you check out group chat.

Make sure you check out mismatch. Make sure that you check out R2C2 with who, Rajah, Bam. Vallejo legend, aka the Creside Clown, C.C. Sabathia. Make sure you check out Black Girl's songbook with who. Rajah. That's the Homegirl. The Home Girl. The Home Girl, Town Legend,

Danielle Smith. Make sure you check out Baccari Sellers podcast. I've been enjoying that a lot. Make sure you check out the press box. I really like that podcast, man. Shout out to them, man. The press box is really good. Make sure you check out Ring or Verse with Jomey, who was on there along with Mal. all the whole gang.

Make sure you check out Charles Holmes on the Ringer music show. You can listen to me talk about Space Jam. You can also everywhere, all the pods on the Ringer NBA feed. We will see you guys on Monday. Thank you for everything. Bye!