The Ringer NBA Show - Monica McNutt on Stanford’s NCAA Championship, the Knicks’ Success, the Upcoming WNBA Season, and More. Plus: 'Bridgerton' Season 2 Is Announced. | Real Ones

Episode Date: April 5, 2021

First things first, the Mad Hooper Talia Caldwell tells Logan and Raja why she’s so mad (0:25). After that, The Ringer’s Jomi Adeniran pops by to discuss his disappointment that Regé-Jean Page will not return to Season 2 of 'Bridgerton' (2:07). Then Monica McNutt joins Logan and Raja to talk about getting into journalism as a student athlete (8:22), Stanford’s win over Arizona to take the women’s NCAA championship (21:10), addressing disparities between how men and women basketball players are treated (29:16), how excited Knicks fans should be about this season (41:39), and who her favorite teams are for the upcoming WNBA season (44:49).  Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guests: Monica McNutt, Talia Caldwell, and Jomi Adeniran Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Head into the Ringiverse to stay up to date with all things superheroes and nerd culture entertainment. Hosted by a rotating lineup of superfans at The Ringer, including Mallory Rubin and Van Lathen, shows will provide instant reactions to blockbuster releases, insightful backstories on canon, and mind-bending theories, as well as fresh takes on the latest news and rumors. Check out The Ringerverse on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with another edition of Matt Hooper, and we have a returning guest, Taya Caldwell, And I'm just trying to figure out why she's so mad. Tell you, why are you so mad?

I am so mad at NBA nerd analytics Twitter because I had to watch the Sacramento Kings game. And everyone told me that it was okay for Buddy Heald to go one for nine and three. Buddy Healed. They told me that he's percentage-wise a better three-point shooter than Dame and Steph and all these people. And they brought up averages. And if you know any kind of base statistics, averages don't matter, right? There's something called mode. There's median.

There's standard deviation. There's variance, right? And he, for his career, shoots seven threes a game. Kobe shot four. So just throwing out, he shoots this much. This is what he does in his career.

It means nothing to me. And it just, watching Sacramento in general, the small ball, high scoring, low basketball IQ, no defense, I just can't.

And it's why they are going forever be in basketball purgatory. Tell him why you're mad, son. I love why you mad. It's, it's, I mean, I mean, Buddy Hill, people were arguing about why that's okay. Then they sent me pictures of him winning the three point contest. Like, I don't care about the All-Star weekend. I don't care.

So yes, I'm tired of this. You can't be able to shoot nine threes in a game and you only finish with seven points. If you have the green light to shoot nine threes, you should be able to make more than seven points. So that, that's why I'm at. That's why I'm at. Real ones up next. What's popping, real ones. Logan Murdoch here. I got Roger Bell and I got Jomey.

And we're here before we get to Monica McNutt to talk about one thing that's near and dear to a lot of our hearts, Bridgetton. We are all collectively very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very upset that the Duke is leaving us. The Duke, man. The Duke is leaving after season one. This is a greet us on many.

levels, instant reaction, Roger first, then show me. Roger, go ahead. Shanda. Like, that's my reaction. Like, Shonda, what are we doing? It's the Duke. I'm sick to my stomach to be quite honest with you guys. It hurts. It hurts.

I came to the show for him. He brought the energy. He brought the vibes. He brought the sauce. And he's just not going to come back. Man, I'm with that. He added an element, Logan, like real talk. I want you to go out.

I mean to cut you off, though, dog. But he did. You were typically in the houses, oh, you know, receiving courtships and all of that. And then you get to go to the gym with brother. Like, they're in their boxing. Like, there's a lot of stuff that comes with the Duke being a part of the show. No, I just, he said, I banned for you.

That should at least buy him at least two more seasons on the show. Okay? It should buy him at least two more seasons. I don't get why. My question, I'll lead this to gentleman to go to Raja. Does it make you give you more solace that this was planned all along? Does that does that help out with your grieving process, Jemey? Yes and no.

Like, I feel on the one hand, I feel, you know, good knowing like, okay, you know, maybe this gives him more opportunity to do some more stuff, you know, get some bigger properties, you know, get that coin. You know, but then again, like, I was excited to see him back for season two. You know what I'm saying? See him go around town with this girl. Just knowing he's not going to be back, you know, it's just, it's just, it's just not there. It's not there for me.

I can't co-sign. I can't co-sign. Oh, okay, go ahead. Go ahead. I do hope the brother gets like excellent roles in the future and becomes like a mega star dog. I've been hoodwink, bamboozled, let us straight. You hooked me in with that relationship, dog. That was the hook for me.

That's what kept me watching Bridgeton, like the sexual tension between them to the whole time and all it was going down. And now you're going to take it up. the equation and expect me to stick around, I don't know about that. You're going to watch the first episode to see what it's like. I'm going to watch the first episode, damn it. I was so invested at him as a character man. Is he going to stop drinking? Is he going to drink more? Is Daphne going to make him a better person? How does the kid look? Is he going to be a good dad? Is he going to be a good dad? Yeah. Is he going to be a good dad? And it's even worse now that Daphne is still in the picture. And we don't even see the Duke. We don't

even see the Duke. Are they going to kill him off? What's it going to be an absent father? Like, how's that working? I don't know. But I think, I don't, okay, there's some solace for me that maybe he'll come back in future seasons. They said he wasn't going to come back during the next season, okay?

And I get that. Maybe he comes back in future seasons. I don't know. I mean, we're going to see because when they get the viewers of season two and it's less because the brother ain't in it, you know what I'm saying? They got to bring the brother back. And he's going to have to get that bag, too, they can have to pay him. So it's a win-win for everybody.

All right. What do we think about the next season being about the older brother? Daphne's older brother and his and his quest for love, right? Now, we did talk about this the last, a couple episodes ago, Roger, real quick. We did talk about this and said that I thought it was scantless that the woman didn't take him back and just play with my guy's emotions like that. I have revamped my stance. if that if if if if if little mama had better was better with other dude that I'm all for it but I am curious to see how that love story interacts does she actually say oh man he has changed

I'm going with him or does she be like nah fam this is the Keisha Cole song I've changed my mind what do you think Jomey ultimately I've it's that's a tough question Logan that's a tough question because I mean for me emotionally I just I don't really vibe with that whole relationship with that whole conversation to be real with you. Like I was, my main focus was on the brother and what he was up to, you know? So I was annoyed by like his antics,

you know, trying to break him up, trying to get the whole thing going on. I do like the actress, though. Simone Ashley is going to play the brother's love interest in season two. That's interesting because Simone Ashley is a great actress. I've seen her before. She's great.

So I'm excited to see her in that. role. But as for the brother himself, man, I'm not really vibing with him at all. I didn't love him either, Joe. Me, I liked the younger brother better and what he had going on. Yes. Yeah, I mean? Like, he was getting with the dress maker, like that was his little thing. Nobody knew what was going on. Like, I found him a little bit more interesting than the older brother. Absolutely. Does Whistle Down get exposed? Does she get exposed? Lady Whistledown. She does get exposed, but to us. Yeah. Does she get exposed to the rest of the

the kingdom. I can't imagine you extract like that's like that's part of the hook too, right? Is the anonymity of whistle down? Like if that ex, I mean, I don't know anything could happen. I guess Shonda,

you're going to take the brother out to show. I mean, I got to do it. I mean, Sean, I don't care about what we expect, right? Nah, I watch six seasons of how to go over murder, man. Like, Shonda gonna do what Shonda

going do. Shonda is great show. We go, we go see. We go see. Yeah. I just want to say, we'll just, before we get to Monica, I am heartbroken,

but I am not leaving just yet. I'm the same, Roger. I'm the same, Logan. Like, I'm not, I'm a test it out. I'm a C, you know, and hey, brother can always come back. So I'm going to keep my eyes open. I'm signing a 10 day. All right, man.

World ones up next. What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bell. We have a really special guest in the building, Roger. Around the horn panelist. MSG panelist,

DMV legend. Monica McNutt is in the building. What's happening in Monica? Oh my gosh, Logan legend. Wow. The older I get, the further I get away from actually playing ball, I've become so much better.

This is the secret. So is it the secret for Logan Murdoch. Who really thinks he is nice, apparently, Monica. Like, have you seen him who? I have not. I've not had the privilege. All right. I need to find out.

That's a good thing, y'all ain't seen me. It keeps up with the mystique that I'm like kind of okay. Okay. Okay. So, Roger, she is a Georgetown alum. I know this. She has some, and I know you were good with John Thompson. She was good with John Thompson.

Quick, we need a John Thompson story to kick us off right now, Monica. What's up with the John Thompson? How did you guys meet? And how did your relationship just blossom into what it was? Okay, so actually I met John Thompson on my recruiting visit to Georgetown. And I grew up watching Georgetown. My dad was a huge Georgetown fan. I kind of vaguely remember when he stepped down.

But I remember being on my visit, you go into his office. It's on the first floor of McDonald or it was. He's got this great window, and he's as a giant oak chair. And he was like, so who else is recruiting you? And you don't mean. Like, I'm excited rattling off these other schools. and he's like, can any of those degrees do what a Georgetown degree can do for you?

What schools are you doing? What schools is you putting out there? What schools is you putting out there? So places I had actually visited I had gone to James Madison and Richmond. I had gotten letters from Maryland, West Virginia, Princeton, and I'm trying to think what was else like in my top schools

that I was really considering. That's probably it. Because honestly, y'all, I landed on Georgetown really quick in my process. And so I remember being like, Princeton, and he was like, your mama wants you to go there, don't you? You don't want to.

And my mom wanted me to go to Princeton, and I did it. So he was just, even then, like, he didn't know me from Adam. But he was like, you know, you really want to get what you can get out of the game. And he's like, just Georgetown plays is special. And that certainly panned out. I would have landed on Georgetown real quick in my process, too, because that was my dream school. Oh, wow. Real quick, though, like, this transcends, like, basketball.

Was he a draw for, like, a lot of? athletes coming into Georgetown just because of who he was? Was that a normal stop? Or was that something that they knew in your background would impress you? Or do they take a lot of different athletes in his office? I think a lot of athletes went to his office because, I mean, he is Georgetown, right? And like, and if you don't know him, your parents know him. And so this is all cachet in the recruiting process. I do think for me personally being a kid from the DMV, my dad was a high school referee since I was born, like being out in gyms and occasionally seeing him recruiting and knowing the lore of John Thompson from even when he was an athlete because, you know, like some of his teammates, Stacy Robinson comes to mind

are like dudes that I used to see in a gym all the time and would talk trash. For me, it definitely held additional weight because not just because he was Georgetown, but also him being a black man and all that he represented, right? Like the DMV is still a predominantly black area, in particular PG County. DC has since changed technically, demographically by percentage, but he just represented success and successful black people. So it definitely held a different wait with me over the course of our time there. I think my teammates grew to love and respect him as well. But personally, that was a big deal. That's what so. So we talked about your time with Georgetown and John Thompson. Roger, can you tell everybody your experience with

Georgetown and John Thompson, please? Please. You'd like me to relive this? You'd like me to go ahead. Yeah. I told it on the last part. Just so we can know. Because Logan knows it already. I was okay as a high school player. Kind of came into my own as a senior. So, So I was like a mid-major guy, my junior going to senior year, and then my senior year I blossomed. So bigger school started to come in. Georgetown was one of them that came down to watch me play. And I played phenomenal that day.

I don't know what happened, but it just clicked. And I remember coming off the court. And I think, I want to say it was Greg Asherom, or I don't remember his name. But anyway, I was so excited to have this convo about what my future could hold, maybe. And he just kind of bluntly said to me, yeah, you played great. We just thought you were bigger. And then he left. That was my Jewish sound.

Well, we appreciate not wasting your time. No, I had to be yours in it. It actually worked out because it's solidified for me where I needed to be. It was confirmation. There you go. That's a good way to look at it. Turned out, man. It worked out.

Yeah, I can't be mad. It worked out. So, Monica, how's this last year ever been for you? You were around the horn panelists. It seems like a whirlwind just looking at this rise. How has it been from the other side of it where you out here killing it? and we're now seeing how dope you are. Logan, it has been absolutely insane, dog.

What were we standing out on the court in Vegas? What was that two summers ago now, I guess? Yeah, right. You, Malika, Swin, Amina, everybody was kicking it. And at that point, I was there for MSG on my own dime on the low key and happened to hit MSG like, yo, I'm going to be in Vegas. Like, can I do some work? You know how to hustle goes when you're trying to come up.

I already know. Like, first of all, I'm super thankful and blessed that my family. has largely been untouched by the virus itself, but I honestly have increased my workload because everything's from home. Like the commute is one zoom to the other, you know what I mean? And so it's been insane. And I'm really thankful for the people that were willing. And I say this like to bet on me, but I've been working at this since I graduated college at the same time. You know what I mean? So very humbly, I'm like, thank you. I'm super grateful. And I mean that, but also welcome to the party.

Like, I've been here. I've been working. Like, you know what I mean? So I think for me, the part that I'm most proud of is the visibility for other black girls. And when I go to a show like Around the Horn, sure, I can talk basketball because it is basketball. But the root of how I got into this space was covering women's basketball.

And so to me, it's a validation that, oh, you cover women's basketball, oh, you cover the NBA, oh, you cover football, oh, you're an Olympic guy. like we all can still have conversations about sports at large and so I'm very proud of that. What did you do in school? Well, when I came out, I didn't know I wanted to be in the media business, right? Like I didn't prepare myself for that. I didn't take many courses that would prep me for that. It was something I realized once I was in locker rooms and took opportunities to be in front of a microphone.

Was that, were you prepping for that in school or was that something that through the course of a career, you said, I kind of dig that. So all the way up to my junior year, I loved at the weight room and like, food and fitness, and I was going to go into sports science. And then our SID actually said to me, Hey, Ma, you're really good when we do interviews and stuff. Like, you should look into this. And I happened to take a journalism course that year as well. And so it just kind of clicked. But, Roger, when I graduated, I had an English degree and play basketball. And, you know, being naive can be a blessing and a curse. I remember very vividly being like, oh, I'm about to get the NBC4 sports anchor job because I hooped in this area. I know sports in this area. Like,

here I go. Didn't quite pan out. out that way. But after playing ball, I was sitting at an event for the Washington Post, and George Solomon was at my table. And the one thing that I have learned through sports is you got to advocate for yourself, right? Like, and now in the sports space, you do that by busting somebody else's ass on the court, right? Like, but you got to be able to put yourself out there. And so I was sitting at this table at this event and I said, you know, my career is over. I actually did this in my last press conference too. My career is over. I'm looking to get into sports media. If anybody has any tips, please let me know. Like, I'm happy to connect.

And it just so happened that at the time George Solomon was taking over the University of Maryland's Shirley Povich Center or, yeah, for sports journalism. And he was like, why don't you come check out our program? Fast forward, ultimately end up becoming a fellow through that program. And so I get the actual skill set of journalism so that I can show up with a camera, a notepad, and not just be coined an analyst. And so that's kind of how I went about it. How was it for you when you are, it's one thing to say, I don't be a journalist. where you, how did you feel when the work came in when you were like, okay, this is how you do it, this is how you write, this is how you structure stuff? What was that? What was that process like?

So, I always loved writing. Like, being English major was partly because I didn't have to write a thesis, but I also enjoy writing. And so I remember saying of my graduate experience, it was the most meaningful classroom time I had ever spent because it was directly applicable to what I wanted to do. Now, did I enjoy the two weeks I had to stay in Annapolis and cover Maryland State Senate stuff? No. but I can feel those skills would directly apply and that in conjunction with like internships and stuff, you know, writing digital content figuring out how to do slideshows, whatever, whatever.

I was really proud of it and I think it was aligned with like natural gifts and abilities for me. So it wasn't too wild. I'm not an investigative reporter, which I think used to scare me. Like I still foias. Like that class was tough.

But for what I do, I really enjoyed it. Yeah, that's what's up. You know what? You know what I just took away from that. Go ahead, Roger. I am in no way, shape, or form a journalist. Like, I am fully, like, there's so much, and real talk, like a lot of, like a lot of former, you know, NBA players, like we hop into this, you know, and some of us are good on microphones and people put, but we're not journalists. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's, that's an in-depth breakdown of

what it takes to be an actual journalist. Like, we get on microphones and talk. So, Roger, that's loaded. And I think last year, because 2021 just started. our boy, Kofi, Kofi Aboa, actually put this on Twitter. We love those. And I'm not going to lie, I felt a little seen or unseen or needed to recalibrate my identity. I don't, because I carry so much respect for journalists, you know what I'm saying? Logan's out here writing features, like getting nuggets using their connections. I don't know that I would label myself a journalist either at this point in my career.

Because a lot, part of the reason that 2020 and 2021 has been such a whirlwind for me is that I have not had to have boots on the ground, right? I'm able to watch games astutely, find out a clip, find some clips, explain why this happened, give you my takes, hopefully based in reason and logic. But I don't necessarily have, I'm not writing anymore, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not looking for sources. And I have tremendous respect for folks that out here breaking news and all of that. So I agree with you, Roger. Like, I probably would consider myself a basketball analyst and media personality before journalists.

No, I got you. But you have more, fair. I'm simply saying you got way more background in journalism than, you know, You know what I mean? But you got all this life experience, though. Like, I never. I could never. Yeah.

I know. Monica, let him be self-aware because a lot of athletes aren't self-aware. That's true. Because I always see that athletes, especially like Raja, they'll just say, oh, I could do what Monica does. No problem. I could do what Logan does, no problem. And they fail to realize it gives the respect that it takes work to get to where we're at.

And also, like, we feel the same way, Raja, that you feel. feel when we say, hey, bro, I could hoop and I could beat Roger. I'm sure. What you mean? I'm sure. What you did on Twitter the other day as a matter of fact. I just, you know, I was throwing an alley-up to myself so I could be drunk on you right now. That's all I was doing.

No, but that's a, I feel you, bro. I feel you. That's a competitive, competitive industry. People have rinded for lifetimes trying to get to where they're at to be diminished for someone to hop out there and think, hey, man, this is cake. I feel you. I can't lie. It do be hell of funny when, when.

an athlete or somebody say, I could do what you do, I can write what you do, and then just, like, bomb because they don't have no idea what they're getting themselves into. Like, absolutely, don't even put in work to say, on the first take, I could do it, and they're just, oh, blah, blah, duh. Yeah, it's a lot.

It's a lot. And I think, especially now, because responses can be instantaneous. So-and-so said, XYZ on first take, sports, and whatever show you was watching, hop on Twitter, responses are out, like, it becomes a whole thing.

The respect is blurred, because it seems like, oh, you're just up there spilling your opinion. But those opinions are rooted in usually, not in all cases, but usually in years of covering a sport, of being in locker rooms, of building relationships. So, you know, a healthy respect is always a good thing. Yeah, yeah. Wow. That was beautiful. That was a beautiful moment, man.

Respect. Thank you. Word. All right, man. Let's get to the shits. Okay. Last, yesterday. Sunday,

women's national championship game. Arizona or Stanford, Adia Barnes, I hate she had to go out that way for Arizona to lose in the final minutes. What was your overall impression

of that game and how it ended? Because the referee was refereeing was a bit suspect as it has been all tournament, but I do want to get your take on

how Sunday played out. I had two thoughts the entire course of that ball game. if Ari McDonald had a single knockdown shooter with her just a single cold chick, don't leave her open from three just to give her a little bit more space,

give her somebody to kick it to on the penetration. Literally, that's the one thing that team needed, I think, to change the formula of that game. Second, I really hoped, I hope, still, that this isn't a flash in the pan for Arizona and that Ari McDonald is one of those once, not once in a lifetime, but once every, what, five, ten years type players?

I would love to see Adia Barnes to be in the class with Don Staley and those guys in terms of sustainability at Arizona. Last time I checked there was a Jordan school, like that's a good look. She seems like she really connects with her players. I hope that more and more young women are willing to continue to disperse their talent, which I think we have seen, and it's part of the reason that we had upsets in the final four. The officiating, my girl Andrea Carter put out a great tweet over the weekend, and hers was actually during the South Carolina-Stanford game.

That was awful, by the way. That was awful, by the way. I'm sorry. I agree with you, Roger. And she made the point that officials should have to do post-game press conferences. Like, she said, give them, you know, we can pick the amount of time. But she's like, this idea that they don't have to be accountable is ridiculous. And I was like, no, like, this is, I'm with it.

I'm 100% with it. And so, listen, my dad is an official. I have a healthy respect for officials. But I think the accountability is real. You not being able to call this game next year does nothing. for the team that you just screwed. Correct. And if that is your consequence.

You know what I mean? Correct. So I just, I am very weary of putting game-altering decisions in the hands of officials anyway. But if we rewind this thing back to Bill or Yukon, let's be honest, Yukon wasn't supposed to advance. Like how you get wapped in the face and on the arm and nobody. All right, all right, all right, all right, all right. I didn't think that.

All right, no? I thought that while it was a foul, while it was a foul, they're not going to call that at that point. that time in the game. They're not, bro. That is a second quarter foul. That is not a fourth quarter foul. Monica, may I? May I?

May I real quick? Please, Robyn. That's absurd on a lot of different. First of all, a foul is a foul. There's no foul that should be called in a second that shouldn't be called in the fourth. I'll start there.

Secondly, if you're going to make the argument that there is a difference between the two, she got hit up top and then in the face. Like, she was fouled twice on the play, bro. Like, there's no way. According to Carolyn Pack. Three times.

They're a hand check. According to Carolyn Pack. And I messed with Carolyn. My sister played at Florida, so I know Carolyn Peck pretty well. Like, yeah, dude, I'm with that 100%. So I disagree with you, Logan, on all accounts. All accounts. And the other part that I think we want to jump to,

a rough's not going to call that call because it's a game winning call. I can't remember how much time was on the clock, but she still would have had to make the free throws. You kind of, in theory, still, I think, would have had an opportunity. So it wasn't quite the end or be-all that people kind of think it is now as we revisit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So I was watching the Baylor, not Baylor, I'm sorry, it was the Stanford, South Carolina. Yeah. And the kick was, I mean, the missed kick ball, like down the stretch on the crossover was tough. And then there was a play. I don't know. This young lady stole the ball and the girl from Stanford just kind of shoved her in the back, like right out in the open court. Like those are things that if you are reffing at the highest level. And my dad was a ref too.

My sister is now a ref. Like, so I have an appreciation as well, Monica. But like, you don't miss those if you've made it to that level. of officiating too often. So to have them keep popping up in like 20 second increments, like there's something wrong with that. And I've been on record, like I'm tough on refs. I think there should be some accountability for having to answer to what just happened.

Like just give us, walk us through it. Like I'm with you 100% on that. Who won this? We know Stanford won the whole thing. But who won this? One individual player or entity. Who won this tournament, Monica? Arizona and Ariy McDonald's to me,

and Adia Barnes. Like, I think we forget when we go back to the disparities that kicked off the whole tournament, NCAA, please do better. But Adia Barnes was one of the first coaches to voice support in regards to that, too. You know what I mean? So she's had this steady rise. This year, her time at Arizona, I mean, her first year, I think they finished above 500. Her second year, they won the NIT, then last year happened, and now she was in a national

championship game. So I definitely think Arizona, her program, her as a personality, because she's a second. even if people wanted to get upset about her double bird moment and her huddle. That was fire. That was hard. Also, as a woman, like, the sports was the one place. My mouth was super foul. Like, I didn't have to worry about being ladylike.

I was aggressive. I was screaming. I'm doing all these things that you're going to tell me are not acceptable. So now you're about to parse this to the umpteenth degree while she was in her huddle with her team? Like, what are we doing here? So I'm like, in my mind, this is a non-story unless you're laughing at it. Because that's the coach bonding with their team in the biggest moment of their season. Get the camera out of there if you don't want to see that, right?

100%. That's private. I want to go back to the Arizona thing. And you just asked questions. So it just brought me back to it naturally, right? But I think Arizona, first of all, facilities and infrastructure there for sports to be successful or phenomenal. And as I watched her coach, I just found myself being like, man, she looks mad cool. Like just her affect on the sidelines when things were going on.

And I coached. So I'm guilty of just wearing emotion on my face. And if you looked over at me when you made a mistake, just feeling like you might have let me down. And she doesn't wear any of that on her face. You could tell her players, love her. I do think she's going to be able to recruit the hell out of that. And I think they'll be around.

That's sustainable. I hope so. It's great for the game. I hope so. My favorite part of that double bird moment, well, my second favorite part of the, the double bird moment. My first part was seeing the double bird on national television. The second part was she didn't apologize for it. And I think there's a, there's always, there's some world where

people feel like they would have to apologize for being themselves and being for something that they wouldn't ordinary apologize for. And I was really happy that she was like, I did it. Yeah. I was, I was talking to my team. So that was a great moment. And I think that that's what made me a huge fan of hers was the double bird moment. Among other. things, right? Logan, like, there was so much to love. But I think the other part that was the first time we had two black women in the Final Four, which I think is incredible. They are both living examples. And I appreciate that Don is this Hall of Famer Olympian and Adia had, didn't quite have the same caliber of career, although she was a WMBA champ. They both represent,

the game doesn't have to stop when your body stops, especially for women. Like whether it's music, movies, entertainment, sports, like black women's bodies, we love them, whatever. there's sometimes lines that get crossed. But I think them showing that their minds are just as powerful in positions of leadership, literally being examples so that young women can see them and look to be them was incredibly powerful. And I'm with you, Logan. I was glad she didn't apologize either. Yeah.

Don Staley has been a ruin of the week so far already on the real ones pod, especially after she did the most gangster shit I've ever seen, which is do a statement condemning the NCAA through the school. South Carolina is their name going to be on this. That was hard. All right, time to get to the baggage claim. We'll be right back. What do you think about, I think that this tournament brought both the best out of women's college basketball and also the worst out of the NCAA in terms of when you talk about the disparity in resources and things like that.

What was something that you saw? because I think that everything that we see out of these two things that I just mentioned brings out unfair perceptions on the game and unfair takes on the game. What was the most egregious unfair take that you saw during this time? I definitely think it's the weight room controversy. And I think what makes me more upset as we've all more details of comes to light. When it first hit, even when I was asked to do SportsCenter to discuss it, I did not know that there was a memo that stated the wait room wouldn't be available until the 316 for the women's program or for the women's tournament.

Exactly, Roger, right? And so I think it's twofold. I remember asking when we had our internal meeting as we were preparing to cover the tournament, did anybody bristle at that from the jump without seeing what the men had? And we couldn't quite get clear answers. But I think not only did it reveal the NCAA's small-mindedness when it comes to. what their women athletes deserve. It also showed that if we're not mindful,

we continue to move in the way that we've been conditioned. Because for as big of a thing that it became, to me, somebody should have said, wait, why don't we have this at the beginning anyway? You know? And so when the picture surfaced, my initial thought was, what in the world elite athletes did you think are training here?

And that was only exacerbated by the comparison to what the men had. But it reveals how much work we have to continue to do as women, as allies, whatever you, whatever word you want to use to acknowledge that we deserve better and we don't just have to show up and be grateful. And then, of course, the system has to address the way that they just treat. For an organization is supposed to serve all 26 sports, whatever, however many thousand athletes, and has plenty of commercials of people going pro in something other than sport, they need to do better. Yeah. Yeah, that's really bugged out on a lot of levels, though. Like, you know, the fact that all athletes share weight rooms. Do you know what I mean?

Like, we share a right room at Georgetown University most of the time or at FIU. Like to think that one athlete would be able to train as effectively on much less equipment than another is that's just all the way bugged out. And food as well. Like you're fueling a body. It's a human body. Right. Like, Monica, I'm going to be fully transparent here. Like we've had conversations, Logan and I, about, you know,

what as an entertainment value one would like to watch versus the other, okay? Like that's another conversation. But purely in the realm of what people need to be fueled, to be proficient in their sport, to train for their sport. It's bugged out to think that you could take human beings and treat them differently and expect them to be able to get out of their body what they would need for the event that they're trying to put on. That's crazy. Yep, yep.

Now, I will say to that one, but again, it was weird, y'all, because you want to give this, you do want to give some grace because putting on a tournament in a single site location, it's the first time it's been done, right? So you want to give a little bit of grace. And I think one of the things that came out in regard to the food piece, Roger was like a lot of that was disparities in hotels, and hotel chefs did immediately get with team nutritionists

to address that stuff as rapidly as possible. Okay, fine, let's buy that, right? but I do think just in general to me it showed that the NCAA doesn't appreciate the process of its student athletes, of his coaches, all that athletes go to be the best

version of themselves. Because there was just too many things that were not thought through in advance. And to be fair, like, we probably won't ever have to do a single site in this way again. Hopefully, you know, whatever, take care of yourself, knock on all the word, right, I'm looking for something. But it just And I think COVID put pressure and exposed mindsets that needed to be exposed.

And for that, I think I'm thankful. Well, what do you, how do you feel self-reported allies or allies in general should act towards women's basketball? Because you see everybody got to take, especially men, talking about the, the WMBA and college basketball saying what women should do. And I don't know if it's necessarily there's any education behind it. how should allies act when it comes to talking about the WMBA and college of his basketball? You see how I did that? That was so eloquent. You know, and I actually was, I was actually asked about a piece the other day in terms of using pronouns when we call WMBA games, right?

And so this is my own philosophy. This is the philosophy I would encourage anyone that uses the term ally. You got to listen more than you talk. You got to listen and you got to take action. and I think on a base level, watch the women's games, buy women's products. If you have a, and I don't know if anyone that we may or may not be referencing does have this, but if you have a production company, hire some women. Like, do some things in tandem.

Put your money where your mouth is in terms of your resources. Like, I was in a conversation yesterday, and while I understood where the gentleman in the conversation was coming from, he was making a point about mentality where I had some former WMBA athletes who were talking about, the opportunities that may not exist for former athletes because people aren't banging down your door as a WMBA player the way they might be as an NFL or NBA player. And I think his point was there's opportunities everywhere. And their point was you can say that with confidence as a man. And he was kind of like, what the mentality is you got to make your opportunities. And I was sitting in the middle as I'm supposed to be moderating this thing. Like, you don't think that they understand that?

Like two things can be true. Opportunities are not served up on a platter for women as much as they are as former male professional athletes. But you can be creative and create opportunities. But I think to think that women have not already been exhausting every resource that they can think of to improve their game and improve their resources and improve the future of the game is naive and insulting. It's interesting. So I had this conversation on, was it Saturday, with one of my best friends whose daughter

I referenced before. She's a freshman in New Jersey, like really a stud. And her mom was saying from the grass. grassroots level, like, that there needs to be more resources allocated, you know, for, for, for women's basketball. Like, it starts there. So I want to ask you, because you come from an area, you know, PG County, which is like for, for, for, for men's basketball. And that's full, I don't know. Like, it is a women's. It is also for women's. Go ahead. Could you feel the disparity between the, the, the, the, the, the resources that were poured into the men versus the women in your hometown? Um, now that I reflect back on it, Raja, yes, but far less than I've seen now that I'm older and going to different AAU tournaments, right? Like, PG County in particular is very unique. Like, I'm used to black people in two, three bedroom or three garage homes, you know, six bedrooms, whatever. Like, so now I have had a very unique experience probably compared to the average black American, right? Like success is like, okay, yeah, we do that. We got degrees, whatever. We drive bins. It's no big deal. Um, and so that also seeped into our basketball. And so that also seeped into our basketball.

basketball experience. Yes, the boys were more hyped. But as I was playing, I never felt like I didn't have the support or the tournaments weren't available. Our coaches was looking for gyms and had the hookups with the janitors the same way some of my guy friends as coaches did. You know what I mean? And then there was like the DC assault back in the day. But then Bambas was legit. Like all McDonald's, all Americans that went on to be pros. So like you get it, right? But I never felt like I didn't have support as an athlete. Shout out to my parents. Shout out to the teams and the teammates that I had. So here, no. But I understand that here is more of an outlier than a norm because girls basketball is a thing and it is celebrated here. Do you feel like males and self-reported allies should just be cool with just saying, I don't know, and asking questions? A hundred percent. The other day in the Team USA pressers, Christina Pink posted a clip from Nekha Agumake. And Nek is like, obviously she went to Stanford, but she's brilliant. And 30, 30 under 30, shout up Christina.

Shout up Christina. She, NEC is just so great as a leader of the WMBAPA. And she said this and it kind of hit me like a rock. Like, it's just kind of been sitting with me. She was like, we have this negative connotation about ignorance. She's like, I think we're raised that way. But sometimes people legit just don't know. And then I think the layers of that would then become willful ignorance.

But I think she's right. Like there are some things that if you don't know, baby, it's okay. shut up and just listen. Like, it's totally okay. Real quick, before we can move on. Who's your way too early pick to win a Natty next year? Ooh, way too early picked to win a Natty next year. Let me think of my teams that are what they got, South Carolina.

Okay. That's my girl, Leah Boston. Ah, I got a question, right? Leah's from the Virgin Islands, though, by way of Boston, right? Like, I two of them from the Virgin Islands, right? She's from St. Thomas. But one of my childhood friends, the whole family, is from, they're in the Hampton, Virginia area. But Tajma, Abraham, is the head coach at GW now.

You familiar with her? I'm not, but I just see that she just got that position. Where's she come from? So she came from St. Croix, and then they moved back up to the Hampton, Virginia area. So their whole family's like in the Hampton VA area. And she's been coached. I think she was like an ODU as an assistant and some other places. and then she got the head gig.

So I didn't know if you were familiar or not. That's all. I'm not super familiar, but just based on that geography that you gave me, I would definitely give her a chance. Like, GW's a very attractive spot. Like it's in the A10. I remember when they were there, it was four years ago,

I think they were at the top of that conference. And if she's connected to that 7-5-7 Hampton area, they got Hoopers down there. So she should be straight. So basically, Rogers' pick for the nattie is George Washington. Wow. That's why I'm a ride. Are you tripping?

We're going to get a Lee of Boston up out of Dawn Staley, too, coming home. Come on, now. We got that. Yo, man, is it wild to pick Stanford? Because Haley Jones is only a sophomore. It's not wild to pick Stanford, but I'm pretty sure if Keanu comes back, I'm pretty sure she's a senior, though.

And Anna's a senior. Now, they do get this year. Yeah, true. From COVID. And if they wanted to, they could have stayed for their grad year anyway. That's not wild. Cameron brings only a sophomore. I mean, only a freshman. Like, that's not wild.

What's the young girl growing to Connecticut, though? I'm not a Connecticut fan, but what they got a younger. No, no, no, page is there. Wait for it. Page's there. Are you right, Raja. AZ Fudd, who I know, her mom actually went to Georgetown. I know her mom and her family.

Okay, that's especially crazy. You might be right, Roger. Do I need to go, Yukon? I think I'm going to South Carolina because they were spring. I don't want to pick Yukon, man. Like, they're too, but they have too much. I don't like Yukon historically because I'm a Tennessee fan. However, however, it's just so many characters on that team.

I love that team, man. What's my girl Williams? Who had the Kirk Frank? Kristen Williams, who had the Kirk Frank, the TikTok? Yes, Kristen Williams, yes. Now, the thing about Azee is I remember, and now that, you know, that team has played a year with Gino. This may not be as applicable. But when I called the South Carolina Yukon game, Gino said he could see where Paige gets frustrated

because she thinks the game at such a high level and her teammates had not yet caught up. Because they were all still new, right? Paige and AZ, not only are they best friends, like, away from basketball, they've played together. So you're talking about being in sync, like, before we even get to the tip of the first regular season game in terms of college basketball, AZ's a beast. Like, that is actually very scary. You've got to pick up again, man. I'm not changing from South Carolina, though, but that's very scary. Listen, the Pac-12 just got a chip.

We just got a chip on the West Coast for the first time, which is 92, man. Let us, let us eat. All right. Now, you do, you are with the MSG Networks. You have covered in Knicks. Is it time? Be nice, Logan. Is it, is it time to put, to clap our Tims in the air right now?

Or do the Knicks fans need to relax? I can't tell my Knicks fans to relax. Since I've joined MSG, this is Year 3, I love Knicks fans so much. They are, they're like great people. Might be a little insane, but they're great people. No, I think it, I think it is time to get excited. Remember, we got a new playoff format. You're telling me the Knicks can't finish 10th?

Like, I'm asking you. I'm not saying that, Monica. What I'm saying is just still building you would have thought that the Knicks won a title. We talked about this earlier in the season. You're looking for trajectory right now, bro. You're bugging, man. You're looking for trajectory, Logan. Okay?

You're looking for a change of the tides, bro. You're not looking for a chip right now. The tides are changing, man. Thank you, Roger, because I wasn't sure where you was going, Logan. You didn't answer my question. You don't think they can finish 10th, at least? I do. I do.

I do. Changing of the guard, the trajectory, the foundation is late. I have maintained, and even before I hooked up with MSG, I have maintained that today's generation of athlete, there's no way with branding, right, like being completely aware of their brand. There's no way that some elite do is not going to be willing to tackle the Knicks. As a brand in New York, like, there's just no way that that's not going to happen. Like, it's, it's bound to happen.

It's always been that way, Monica. The Knicks have just been fumbling the bag. It's always been, the Knicks have always been there as an entity, for sure. And so, to Raj's point in terms of trajectory, I think Tibbs being there has made that organization a lot more attractive. There have been some changes in the front office, as we all know. I still think it's a matter of time. Okay.

Here's my concern. And, like, it's probably not fair to Tibbs. The dude you're talking about Monica and I have no insight into whether or not Tibbs has kind of evolved as a coach. But the knock on Tibbs when I played was he is going to run you into the ground. Like you're going to get beat up. So like the question for me, just playing devil's advocate was like, let's say I'm that guy. Right?

And I'm like, all right, I'm going to the Knicks. Can we coexist? Like, because Tibbs, I know he could take a group like he's got now. Like we're going to buy in. We're going to be chemistry oriented. We're going to be tough his nails defensively. He wins like with that recipe. But if that dude goes there, can he,

put all those pieces together. I don't know. I'm not saying he can. I'm asking. And Roger, that's a fair point. I think, what's today? Monday? Saturday they walked the pistons.

But the prior two games, they dropped to Minnesota and to Dallas. And that was, you know, a lot of our post game dealt with that. You know, the starters played too many minutes. And it looked like it. You could see it. I would like to believe that Tibbs is more like Bill Belichick,

who everybody was like up in arms about his movements in the off season so far, but it's either adapt or die. You know what I mean? Yeah. to believe that he, at least according to Taj, who's his boy and been with him in multiple spots, he's doing far more listening now, more smiling, and that'll come to bear in the minutes that the starters continue to play down the stretch.

All right. Wrap it around real quick. We're going to do some WMBA talk real quick. Let's do it. Who is a team to beat this year? Seattle looks a little bit different, but I automatically kind of go back to Seattle. The loss of Alicia Clark is a big deal. but I still think Seattle's probably a favorite.

I'm going with Seattle so far. Who is the team on the rise that we need to be looking at right now? Okay, let me think of some free agency moves before I shake this up. Chicago comes to mind immediately because anywhere Candace Parker is, needs to be looked out for. The Mystics, I remember both Tina Charles and Elena Deladon didn't play last year, and that was a COVID thing. And that was a team that made it interesting in the playoffs without their premier players.

I think Ariel Atkins got shipped away, though, but they brought, Alicia Clark is not playing this year because she had injury. So yeah, I'm gonna go Chicago and D.C. as my top two. Also would throw Connecticut in there, though. Okay, so I have team on the rise.

No one's talking about this, and you didn't even bring it up, and I'm surprised. Dallas Wings. Liz didn't play last year. They have two draft picks. They have two first-run draft picks, and they also have Saba.

Yeah. And they also have Saba. We got time, but like, If you have a quick thing, then cool, but we have one more. And I got something else to ask. That's not, this is what I would say. That's not a bad choice, but there have been, like, underlying currents that everything may not be copesthetic in that organization. That kind of, you know what I mean?

Like, I need them to make sure that they're good and cohesive, not just the basketball part. And then I can get on that bandwagon. All right. You named them, and I'm going to call them the last one as the sleeper team. And I have Chicago as my sleeper. It's weird that you said to him on the rise. I have them as my sleeper contender. How you got a sleep contender with CP3, though, Logan?

Like, Candace Park is on the team. I have not heard anybody talk about Chicago as a contender every time that I've looked. And for someone, for such a monumental move, I just haven't heard enough for them to be a contender right now. So I'm just saying to a sleeper. Oh, okay. Okay, my sleeper, do do do do do. Actually, I tell you what, my sleeper is actually going to be L.A., the Sparks. Because, now check it out.

Chenet didn't play last year. right she's going back neck is still there neck is still incredible i believe they've got um what's that child do what dwight i hate doing this by by naming her tay cooper i didn't even have to go to her fiancee first anyway tay cooper i thought had a great rookie season um neck is still a beast like i think simona gustus is still out there i don't know if um my head coach whose name i'm blanking on whose face i can see eric fisher there you go i want him to get it all over together but if i had to go sleeper I think I'm leaning Sparks as a sleeper. Get your shit together, Derek Fisher.

You got it. And I don't know how you define sleeper in terms of Chicago. I think I did a better definition of a sleeper. If you sleep on Chicago, I think you're stupid. Okay, all right. See, I'm kind of out on the Sparks right now. Full disclosure, I've been a Sparks fan for years now, but I just don't like how they treated CP3 on the way out.

And you talk about another team that needs to get his shit together in-house, L.A. Sparks. And okay, and so for all those reasons, that's why they're my sleeper. Because if they can and they just left, and you know what I'm saying? Candace just left. Like that's the organization for however many years has been. You don't bitch your player, your franchise, and elimination game. You don't do it. You don't.

With the game on the line, you don't do that. All right. Nope. All right. That was Monica McNutt, friend of the show, man. Come back anytime. I'm sorry, I'm just vexed right now, man. I was just, oh, I shouldn't be cheering.

For CP in Chicago, right? I shouldn't be doing that. I don't deserve that. I don't deserve that. I mean, just think about her going home and the full circle nature of the moment for her. Like, less about the sparks and more about her as a person. He can't do that, though.

He can't separate it to. He has no ability to do that, Monica. It's okay, Logan. Yeah, he has no ability. We've done with this before. All right. All right. All right.

Monica, thank you so much for coming on. Friend of the show. We've got to have you some time during the WNBA season. This was really fun. Thanks for coming on. I enjoyed. Great questions, guys. Good thoughtful conversation.

Thanks for having me. Yes, Lord. We will see y'all on Thursday. Holla.