The Ringer NBA Show - Most Intriguing Teams After the Trade Deadline and Buyout Market Matchmaker | Group Chat

Episode Date: February 16, 2022

Verrier, Rob, and Wos discuss the most interesting teams—in a good and bad way—after the trade deadline, including the Celtics, Bucks, Jazz, and more (13:21). Then they play matchmaker and pick out where some of the top buyout-market guys would fit best (42:30). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The press box is here to catch you up on the latest media stories. Hosted by Brian Curtis and David Shoemaker, these guys have the insight on the biggest stories you care about. Check out the press box on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier. Joining, as always, Big Was, Rob Mahoney on this post-deadline week. Joel Embed is already taking shuffle three-pointers.

Ramona Shelburne is already reporting that the Lakers are holding the line like William Wallace against Aideon. What a time was. I mean, time is a flat circle. You know, the Lakers are in disarray. And, you know, James Hardin is still taking stepbacks. We are going to get into the most interesting storylines as a result of the deadlines. The next questions, if you will, as a result of a flurry activity last week.

We're going to get into some buyout matchmaker. We're going to get into some other stuff. Let's start with some news that we got. just coming across the wire today. Adam Silver made some comments that caught our eyes here. He commented on just the Simmons and Harden Trade and just the ripple effects across the league. But he also talked about the vaccination mandate in New York specifically,

basically alluding to the fact, not even necessarily alluding, basically outright saying that it doesn't make sense that unvaccinated players can play in Brooklyn, but Kyrie Irving, who is also unvaccinated, cannot. Was, what did you think about, this whole thing? Do you think this is like long time coming or where do you fall on it? I think it's Adam Silver sort of reading the tea. I don't want to say reading the tea leaves,

but the league over the years has decided that they wanted to align themselves with online discourse, if you will. And so with the vaccine, the people at the league whose approval they've been courting, have been very strict vaccine adherent online anyway. And the league, so the league has taken a while to come out and say, look, our unvaccinated guys should be able to play. And I think the only reason they're doing this right now is because those rules in New York are probably about to change. And Adam Silver basically wants to sod the ground and be like, look,

Kyrie, the unvaccinated man, is going to be allowed to play. And it makes all the freaking sense, which all of us have been saying forever, when we're packing stadiums with 15,000 people, we're letting road players play unvaccinated. Why can't this dude who? It doesn't make any sense. And I think Silver, because, again, they're just taking a long time to reverse the course of years of pandering to a certain online chatter and discourse.

finally just doing stuff that makes sense for the freaking business. Yeah, it just seems like there's like a general hypocrisy going on here where the rules just didn't make sense. It's not like we're saying that there shouldn't be rules in place for the safety of the players. It's just like there are different rules for different people, right? Rob, what do you make of this? I mean, I think the reason we're seeing some evolution and what the NBA's view on this is, is because when the rules came down from local municipalities, I think

there's an optics problem with the league saying, you know what, screw you city of New York, screw you city of San Francisco, we're going to do what we want, we're going to pay whatever fines are necessary. I think there's an optics problem with that. But as Waz is saying, now that we've reached this point where the arenas are full, there's no, there's no limitations in a lot of these buildings as to even, you know, vaccination, negative tests, a lot of these buildings are just letting people in the door. So there really is no harm in letting Kyrie play at this point. There really hasn't been harm in letting him play from the start other than the local mandate.

And so Silver is right to point out the hypocrisy of why are road players allowed to play unvaccinated but home players are not. We've been on this for months. This is not a new problem, but the timing certainly is interesting, isn't it? About now that Kyrie Irving and the Nets are relevant in a different way, now that some of these problems within these teams have been resolved. Now all of a sudden this is an issue. So are you suggesting a conspiracy theory, Rob Mahoney,

that perhaps now that, you know, the Nets have gotten rid of James Harden, they've cleared out this problem for the league of this big Mata ball hanging in the air, Ben Simmons not playing James Hardin being unhappy, that perhaps they want to do the Nets of favor? I would never do that. I would never say something so irresponsible at a podcast is that.

Yeah. I mean, it has been weird just watching games throughout the course of the season and seeing so many NBA players just like dapping up fans and giving out high fives. Like, that's literally the last thing I would want to do with my neighbors or anyone on this podcast, for instance. Like, I'm not touching just random people. So it does seem like a long time coming. Well, it would be weird if you were just walking around high-fiving your neighbors, to be fair. Yeah, that would be strange. And, you know, another thing, if you've been paying attention to any of the news, national, A lot of states are doing stuff like, yo, we're done with the mass mandate.

We're done with this. We're done with that. Like, these things are coming down the pike. Like, if you have eyes, you can see it. And so this makes sense. This isn't silver coming down and doing some grand proclamation. No, this is just something that was months in the making. It's been made sense to do this.

And I've already seen it on social where people are painting this as Kyrie gets his way Ben Simmons gets his way guys Kyrie Irvin put his money where his mouth is you can say he got his way or whatever he actually paid for

this out his own damn pocket I'm sorry like that's a whole different thing than stomping your feet and people giving you your way this man said I will sit out I will give away my game checks I don't care So, you know, like, I've already seen it.

Like, oh, I can't believe Kyrie's going to get what he wants. It's like, guys, this dude missed games, missed game checks, okay? How many of y'all are willing to go to work, stand to your ground at work for something? And then when they say, yo, on the first of 15th, you ain't going to get paid. How many of y'all are willing to stand up for it? Please. I think the difference there is, like, just the amount of zeros in Kyrie's bank account as opposed to someone like Andrew Wiggins, who has a lot of money.

let's be sure, but like maybe the future earnings isn't as high. And by the way, the past earnings isn't as hard with sneaker deals and all of that stuff. Carrier's a rich man for sure. Well, Ben Simmons also just raised his fist in the air in solidarity, giving up game checks for his very principled stand. A lot of freedom fighters here. I do want to talk about the other thing that Silver talked about briefly, which is just like whether or not fans are being turned off by the,

let's put in an air quotes, player empowerment era, his quotes just kind of boiling it down just to get through it quickly. It was basically like almost taking a victory lap for the shortened contracts that got instituted in years past and just how much that just changes things up in the league, keeps things fresh. But he also mentioned that guys asking out within those shorter contracts was not good for the league. Do you have any just feelings on that? I mean, I personally would agree.

And I talked about this with Kristen Syrett on the answer last week. So I'm curious what you think. Of course, I agree. I think there's a way to exert leverage when you're one year out, year and a half out. Of course, you should be trying to exert your leverage at every single turn. But again, if you're four years out and you're asking out of your deal, it's just a bad message to be sending to the customers, man. Like, I don't care.

I don't live up to my agreements. I don't live up to my principles. I'm out of here. That's just a bad message. to be sending. And then again, for the league's partners, and again,

like, let's get some real talk, full disclosure here. I was at a company the athletic before I came here that is a subscription-based service. And internally, the subscriptions that are being driven

by the stories that are being putting out, it's very obvious what the goal is. Sub, sub, sub, sub, sub, subs. No. Yes, yes, yes. And guess what? And guess what? The stuff that drove a lot of subs

was the very stuff that Adam Silver is talking about. So I sympathize with my media colleagues who are like, yo, look, the pressure's on me to deliver for my employer. And guess what these crackheads want? More crack. So I'm going to give it to them. You know?

So I can't be mad at them. But at a certain point, we got to take a longer view of the league. we love, right? And what's best for that league, for us all to be participating in it in a more broader fashion. And a lot of it isn't a freaking tweet that says, discussions have been suspended, dun dun, that's ridiculous, you know? Or James Harder said this, it's like we shouldn't be covering our league that way.

And I think that's what Adam Silver is just trying to say. It's like, man, maybe we should be de-emphasizing some of this behind-the-scenes stuff. So what you're suggesting is that, you know, some party drugs are fine, but we need some federal intervention here if it gets the level of like, you need the hit. Exactly. Exactly. We need the war on player empowerment is what it sounds like. I guess.

Oh, God. Yeah, I mean, the one thing I think that's different with the hardened situation than in recent years is that a lot of those moves were made specifically to give the teams that they're going to the best chance at the title. Like the big three heat formed with designs of winning not one, not two, not three, right? Whereas it just seems like Hardin is bouncing around

just based on preference. I think that's a pretty huge distinction. I think it also rub people the wrong way when Katie left one of the best teams in modern basketball history and the Warriors to go hang out with Kyrie and do something different in Brooklyn. That was a little bit different there because it was like,

Maybe he just wants a chain of senioring. With Hardin, it's literally like, I'm leaving the Warriors to just not even play with a team that's like comparable. It's actually a lesser team, but that just fits my preference. And I think that's a major distinction that they have to kind of solve, honestly. Well, all of that said, in the James Hardin case, if the alternative is him kind of loafing around for a while until his friends get back on the court and then trying for a bit and then leaving as a free agent is, I don't know. know how you legislate around that possibility. You know, like he's going to do, he's going to play the way he wants to play, he's going to do

the things he wants to do. He could sign with any team he wants in a couple of months. Him applying some pressure on the Nets, I don't necessarily have a problem with because in this case, the Nets at least got stuff back for him in a way that if he just left, I don't know where

that leaves a team like Brooklyn. Here's a controversial take. I think it's on us to be killing guys who do shit like that, straight up and down. Oh, sure. Because I do think that when Hardin, remember when all of those highlight reels or low light reels of Hardin's defense being put out there, not that he started playing better

defense, but he would openly address it and try to defend himself. And it had an effect, you know. And so if Hardin was to come out and be a scrub purposely for months on end, he needs to get publicly chastised and disgraced for it. up and down. And, you know, I do think there's a sort of kid gloves factor about, oh, we need to be pro player. Nobody's more pro player to me. I'm damn sure not pro James Dolan or Tillman Fratta. You know what I mean? Like, I'm pro player. But at the same time, when guys are doing dumb shit, we need to be able to point that out as a media as a whole, you feel me? So,

yeah, James Harding could go out and do that, but he needs to be getting smoked for it in the public and being embarrassed for it straight up and down. The only problem is James Hardin doesn't have the internet. So how are we supposed to get to this guy? I forgot about that. I know. I guess this is just like a backdoor for Skip Bayless being speaker of the house, I guess, or whatever equivalent it is for the NBA.

No, it's a good point. Like when Anthony Davis gets criticized as we talked about, like he starts to give a little bit more effort, you know. All right. Let's move along here to some of our other questions that we have on our docket. Let's start with some positivity, all right? Positive guys on this podcast. Who's the most intriguing non-sixter non-net team?

Because Lord knows, we have all talked about these guys for way too much lately. Coming out of the deadline, but in a good way. Rob, do you want to start us off? Yeah, my pick is the Phoenix Suns, who, after another clutch win last night, I find myself wondering, is Phoenix just going to roll to the finals? Is anybody equipped to stand in their way? And I don't want to totally count out the Warriors yet. But at this point, they are a good team with theoretical elements.

It's if Draymond gets healthy. It's if Clay keeps building his way back. It's if these non-steff lineups can figure things out. I mean, while I look at the suns, I just see a freaking machine. I mean, do you see anybody standing up to them in a playoff setting right now? The answer is an emphatic yes. Okay. One, and we have a very recent example of this.

The team that set the freaking record for regular season wins, in the regular season. They damn, they got beaten the Western Conference Finals. Then they lost in the actual finals, right? And so in the playoff, like the regular season is everything can run nice and smoothly. The trains are always on time

when you have a team this dedicated to what their game plan is, their scheme is, this talented. In the regular season, the trains can run on time in the playoffs. That's when people start throwing snags in your plans. and it doesn't look this smoothly.

So, no, I don't think they're going to roll through the playoffs because of that. But I do think, I agree with you, they look so impressive. That McHale Bridges 3, to put them up seven last night in that game against the Clippers, there was the dagger 3 and just watching the possession with Chris Paul actually, he actually had daylight for his own look. And at the very last second, he gave it to Mikhail Bridges in his corner pocket, in his spot, and that shit was splash.

I was like, damn, that's execution right there. And so, no, I'm equally as impressed with the Sons as Rob is, but no, I don't think they're just going to roll people over because that's generally not how things work for teams in the playoffs. Yeah, you got to give the Sons credit, because at the very least, they didn't shoot themselves at the foot at the trade deadline because when those rumors started to come out that DeAndre Aiton, was potentially maybe involved in a trade

or like maybe in the off season we considered it. I was like, oh, God, this could get really ugly, really fast. And they didn't do it. They made some moves on the fringes, and here they are just completely rolling over the entire league. Well, it has as much to do with what they did, which is, as you said, some moves on the fringes, punch up their bench as it does what the rest of the West didn't do.

Like, nobody else improved their chances to challenge the Suns and the West at the deadline. which if you're the resounding favorite, seems like a good place to be. Yeah, among the top six in the West right now, the biggest move was the Mavs getting Spencer Dinnwitty, which was functionally a step back

just to get rid of Chris Sperzzygis, like the Jazz getting to kill Alexander Walker, the Nuggets getting Bryn Forbes. Remember we talked about that? Major ripple effects on the West raise, my friends. What do you think about their moves just like briefly, the sons, Rob, Aaron Holiday, to shore up the backcourt spot.

Tori Craig coming back for a second tour of duty. Yeah, I'm super into it. Just from a depth standpoint, those are two guys who could be playoff performers for you. Aaron Holiday is the kind of player you could see plugging into like a random game three and going off on like a 12.3rd quarter or something. And Tori Craig,

really solid veteran defender on the wing, fills kind of the exact spots they need. So I'm into it. Yeah, I'm glad you brought the sons first because then I want to get to my team because I was looking at 538, and they're just projections and the chances of winning their finals is something I always like to keep tabs on, expecting the Sons to be there with a bullet at number one.

They have them projected at 64 and 18. The only team within like even close of 60 wins. I think the next highest team total is 56 with the Grizzlies. So by far and away projected to dominate the regular season. And yet the number one team in the chances of winning the finals according to 538, the Boston Sells, Celtics. The new look, dominant nine-game winning street, Boston Celtics, was, are you drinking that green-colored?

First of all, I just want to say, our great producer, Isaiah Blakely, he doesn't have his camera on right now. I wish I could see his face as Verrier read that stat off. Look, they've been playing with a lot more vigor recently, and of course it's easy to point that out on a nine-game. game streak. I kind of poo-pooed the Derek White acquisition last week. Early returns say that Waz doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about because he looks amazing right now, just sliding into what they've already got going on. It's nice to see that things have finally

falling into place and there's no more closed-door team players-only meetings where guys are very candid and real with each other. Like, it's nice to see we're We've moved past that part of the season. Championship, I mean, come on, man. Championship, number one, odds of winning the championship in a conference that, you know, has the Hardens and the Embedes and the Yonis's and the Middletons and even what's going on in Miami. No, I don't quite see that for them.

Sorry, boss man, Bill Simmons. Yeah, I kind of look at what they did at the deadline, almost like I did the Kings last week. We're on like a transactional basis on like based on the actual assets given out versus what return the accounting of it all. I don't think it looks great. And I have long term concerns about Brad Stephen, especially when one of his big moves is to just like complicate their luxury tax season just to roll back the 2018 team bringing

Daniel Tyson there. But Derek White just makes sense on this team. Like they are a defensive minded team that now share. the ball very willingly. And it's just like, they're just solid as hell. The defense is now creeping up on the Warriors for the number one spot in the NBA. And just like taking off some of the burden of the playmaking from Jalen Brown, from Jason Tatum, seems like a good move.

They didn't get like a primary ball handle. They're just going to take it out of their hands. Just taking a little bit off their play and like letting Derek White just do some of the stuff that maybe they don't want to do. And it just, it's working so far. Well, that five man combination, the small ball look that they can throw out. with Derek White now with smart with brown with Tatum with Rob Williams that looks like the best defensive lineup in the NBA like that is super switchable super flexible but you have the rim protection

you have the ability to cover so many guys with size that looks really good and there's enough juice with that lineup where they can really get some things going offensively can they mix and match the rest of the rotation we'll see we'll see how long you know once they're all fully healthy how long they keep kind of their previous starting lineup intact i think that's a question for them, but they've looked really impressive. And as far as an elite defensive team that now has a little more upside offensively with a ball mover like White, I think that's a formula that can work for them. Yeah, and as long as their guys are on the floor, long as Williams, Brown, Tatum, as long as

as all of their guys are on the floor, plus Derek White, I think they're going to be pretty good. And again, this is such an improvement from last season where it's just like the ancillary guys we're barely NBA level players. And now it feels like, man, like, okay, this is a team full of, you know, legitimate All-Stars, surrounded by legitimate rotational NBA players, and we're seeing the difference that that makes.

I know, you know, we tend to harp on, just in the meet, not on this podcast, because as long as Rob Mahoney's on this podcast, we are not going to harp on the stars. We're going to get to the ancillary cast. But like, we do, as a general media, we harp on the J-Satoms and the Browns and say, well, shoot, those guys are having a career year scoring, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Why aren't the Celtics winning? We're seeing what a difference it makes when the role guys are actually competent around those stars.

And, yeah, they look great right now. Well, while we're getting to the ancillary cats, let's give Marcus Smart his dude because he went down with this non-contact injury, turned his ankle really bad. it looked kind of scary at first. The fact that it's just an ankle, I think bodes well because he's become really important to their offense. And they've really kind of reorganized in a way where he's doing more playmaking. He's been empowered a little bit more over the last month or so

in a way that I think is really healthy for them and helped turn their season around in a way. Yeah, that is my big concern here, is that they don't have enough of those rotational guys in case one of those solid rotational guys gets hurt and Smart being one of the key ones there. I read something from John Hollinger the other day that all these trades that they made at the deadline dropped them to so few roster spots

that the immediately, based on the rules of the CBA, had to sign two more guys because they did not have enough. Like they were at 10, they had to get to 12. And so I am worried that if you were going to just like ride the lightning with nine, eight even got rotation guys, 10 guys, whatever it is, like that's going to come up and bite you. But like if they make it the playoffs fully healthy with those eight, nine, 10 guys, then maybe they can. be in the mix for, if not the Eastern Conference Finals, then at the very least, like, second round, push some of these other heat teams that we keep talking about.

Well, Was, who is your intriguing team in a good way? I mean, it's the same. It's the same freaking team. Because, like, you got to look at it. You have to look at what's happening, especially in the East, right? It's like, after the Celtics, she was like, okay, this is the team after the four teams we've been talking about. all year, can you go down and say, oh, who's intriguing me in the Eastern Conference?

Is it Franz Wagner and the Orlando Magic? Is that what you're intrigued by? We know nobody's intrigued by the Knicks. Like, what should I be intrigued by here? I hate being that person, but yeah, I am focused on the teams at the top. I just generally am. And I'm, look, I got to be honest with you guys. I am laser focused on that Philly situation.

I will be watching that thing like a hawk, okay? I'm ready. I am ready to watch that thing happen because there's been a lot of Philly people taking a victory lap in my mentions. And I'm like, okay, all right. I see you guys. You guys enjoying yourselves right now.

But I am really, truly, truly locked in on the Philly thing. Even more so than obviously Brooklyn, I want to see KD come back and all of that, but I think we kind of know what they're going to do, Brooklyn. It's kind of obvious what's going to happen once KD comes back. I'm focused on Philly, man. I really am. You're looking forward to Paul Reed getting increased minutes?

Yeah. I mean, well, I guess we should probably talk about the East in general now. That's one of our later questions just because, like, the Nets might be okay, but if they don't get Kyrie back soon, there's a chance that they might fall into the play in tournament. The East as a whole is kind of in a chaotic state, mostly for a good way, because there are just so much talent, so many big twos that are dotting the top of that conference right now.

But if the Nets can be reasonably healthy, you're talking about seven to eight teams that could realistically contend for an NBA final spot. Rob, is there anyone either teams that we talked about or teams that we haven't yet that you would put at the top of that list in the East? in terms of who's going to win it? Yeah. Oh, for me, it's still the Bucks. Okay.

Sorry. You want to talk about the Bucks quickly? Because I have them as my team that's intriguing in a bad way. So last night, Yannis drops a 50 piece. He's obviously incredible. And I get the move. I mean, this sounds pretty bad. This sounds bad.

Yeah, I know. All three Drew Holiday, Yannis, and Milton play together. They're incredible. Yeah, it's terrible. I get the Serger Baca move in theory. because they only had one other healthy big man in Bobby Portis and just getting someone who, just like a healthy body,

one would be great, but also who has some stretch, who could fill that Portis role with ostensibly like some more defensive heft to him, like is a perfect fit there. I guess I'm just concerned that they dealt their only young, tradable asset in Dante DiVincenzo for a guy with a back injury,

which could, in theory, give them two guys with back problems, and now they are perilously thin at the guard spot because now Pat Conantin is out, we'll see what they do on the buyout market, but like, I don't know, it's a lot of risk for a team that otherwise should be sailing here.

Well, that was the risk, as you were saying, in trading DiVincenzo, not just period, but specifically for someone who isn't a perimeter player. Like, let's go through that perilously thin guard rotation. So you've got Drew and Grayson Allen, you've got George Hill, you got Wesley Matthews, who has been fine, I guess.

Pat Connitton, who's now out with a medium-term injury. They just brought in DeAndre Bembri, who's a good pickup under these circumstances but got cut from the Nets for a reason. And someone named Lindell Wigington, who you cannot convince me as an NBA player. You got some minutes last night, baby.

Yeah. I mean, I'm a little nervous about that, for sure. But I think what reassures me is, again, as long as those three stars are healthy, no matter who the role. DeMarcus Cousins was filling minutes for them at one point this season and they were winning games. I'm not too worried about it.

The Lynchpin is that Drew can't go down, right? Because as much as I love what Middleton does on the ball at the end of games, he is a beautiful initiator in crunch time and, you know, initiating pick and roll with Janice and all of that stuff. Like, he is incredible at it. You can't ask him to do that over the course of a game, right? It has to be Drew. sharing those responsibilities with some other guard.

Now, if something happens to Drew where he's limited or he's not playing at all, and those other guys you mentioned are who's on the ball full-time, or what they do is they revert back to Kobe Janus, that's when I think things tend to fall apart. But so long as Drew can be there to be that linchpin, that bridge, for them to run competent offense until, you know, basically Middleton and Janus take them home at the end of games. I think they'll be fine.

I'm not really too worried about what Sergei Baca has to do or what Bobby Portis has to do. I mean, ultimately their third place in the East. They're 24 and 6 with those three guys in the lineup, as Justin alluded to. And they still have gears to go. They're not going all out in the way they did in previous seasons. They can turn it on when they need to.

They can button up the rotation to make shit happen when they have to. And I trust in those things, not just because they're a neat idea, but because we've seen it now. We have seen them do exactly that. So, Oz, if not the Bucks, who do you like in the East? To go to the championship?

Yeah. Not necessarily the regular season, because that's more about just grinding out wins at this point. Miami, give me Miami. Give me Miami. I just, again, when it comes to

scheming up some stuff that's going to muck up the works for another team, nobody's better at it than Eric Spolstra. They're finally getting sort of all of their guys back into the fold. I just think what they're going to be able to do to people on defense come playoff time is going to be just nasty work.

And again, Jimmy's going to be able to do enough on the ball at the end of games to get them over. Give me the bucks. I just, you know, the Brooklyn thing is just so much in the air. as great as KD is another chunk of time that he's missing, right? How reliable will the health be? I've said it again, I'll say it a million times. Kyrie health-wise is not reliable. We're praying that this dude makes it to the end of the season.

And, you know, we've said enough about what their third best player does in playoff settings. So, yeah, no, give me Miami behind the bucks as the number two team. Because I think Brooklyn is the more talented. than the heat for sure. But all of the other stuff, man, when it comes to injury luck, when it comes to past performance in the postseason

by their most important players, that stuff makes me a little anxious. And so, yeah, give me Miami, please. Rob, where are you on Miami? They've kind of flown under the radar somehow, despite the fact that they are 37 and 21 here. I mean, they're awesome. And as Waz alluded to,

what Spow can do in a playoff series is incredibly dangerous, incredibly scary if you're one of these top teams. And the way Bam out of Bio has been playing, making a pretty strong stealth defensive player of the year case over the last couple weeks, he looks incredible. I mean, what they're able to do

in terms of the variety of schemes, the variety of approaches is unmatched anywhere in the NBA and they have exactly the coach you can trust to push the right buttons at the right time. They're going to be really good. They're going to be really tough for anyone to beat. What I'm hearing across this podcast is not a ton of Sixers optimism necessarily

in terms of their ability to compete with those top teams in the East. I don't want to say they can't compete. That's ridiculous. I think they're going to compete. But I think the offensive fit is going to be clunky than people realize, but it's going to be fine, right? But I just don't think it's going to be flying colors.

This thing makes all the sense in the world. The way people, it sounds like, believes it's going to be. And then defensively, I think they're going to have problems, man. I really do think they're going to have some problems defensively, even with Joelle and Bede in the fold, because Tybal is essentially their only perimeter defender at this point of any consequence whatsoever. And even Tybal, I think he's incredible in help defense.

He is amazing at getting blocks and steals. but just straight up, garden a guy one-on-one, he's not this, he ain't Lou Dort, let's put it like that, right? Like, he's not this incredible stopper defensively, and he's the best they got.

And so there's ways to make it so that Joe L. Embed has to be drawn away from the rim and emphasize what you're doing against the likes of James Hardin and Maxie and Tybal as elite perimeter threats come across their way. So I'm worried about what they're doing defensively. I'm unconvinced about them being a juggernaut on offense that can overcome those surecomings. I think they're going to be good offensively. Joe Ellen Bid has been incredible all season on that. And of course, you know what

Hardin does. Again, I'm skeptical of the level of offensive play that James Hardin can still be in and of himself from what we've seen this season. But yeah, it's not that don't think they could compete. I think they're a level below those teams at the top, though. I think there's no question that they've put themselves into a slightly elevated category from, this is not a championship level team to, okay,

they have a shot. Yep. And it's hard to move them up further than that sight unseen when we've seen how good the heat are. We've seen how good the bucks can be. And if you're on the Bulls bandwagon, if you want to cape for any of these other teams, that's fine too. until we see it on the court,

I hesitate to put them above those top two. They've just been so convincing in terms of what they've been able to do over the past season and playoff run in Milwaukee's case. Yeah, I want to see the interpersonal dynamics play out on the court

for at least a couple of weeks because Juel Embed has been fine without James Harden. He's, if not the MVP favorite, certainly right in the top three right now just by dominating every team in his path and just dominating the ball. at the same time. And so I wonder, is there going to be conflict over Harden thinking that he is

the savior for this team coming and giving them a late game closer, being the final piece of the title and Joel basically being like this team was going to potentially be a top four team in the East without you? And so I don't know. Like they don't have much of relationship that we know of. And as we've seen, it's a lot easier when these guys are friends, although like maybe it's actually not considering that Hardin and Durant were allegedly best of friends. And just to put a ball in X's so Sixers fans, I don't think I'm doing the whole Sixers hate thing. Again, I'm watching y'all.

It's not out of hate. I'm just curious to see how it works. I think, look, the thing that Joelle's going to do amazingly for James Hardin is that teams are going to have to actually play conventional pick-and-roll defense against them against James Harden because you can't just switch a small guy onto Joelle and Bede. that is near certain death for your defense when you do that. And I think Hardin's biggest weakness these days is that he can't beat switches anymore. So now that that's going to be the case,

I think that's going to be something that frees up James Hardin in a lot of ways in that playing conventional pick and roll defense against James Hardin has been death for defenses for years now, right? He's an expert at picking apart that type of defense. So I think Joelle is going to elevate what Hardin's able to do. I just don't know that it's going to be enough. That's all I'm willing to say. Just tactically, it's an improvement for Hardin that he's going to get to play next to Joel.

Even though all the stuff that people have mentioned elsewhere, right? Like, Joel is not this conventional dive hard to the rim pick and rolemate. He's not this vertical threat where you throw the lob to him that Hardin is used to doing. He's not all of those things, but he is going to free James up in other ways. I love this corner for you that I'm just the guy asking questions about the Sixers.

We need to get you on a Twitter detox, man. There's some bad things going on out there. What about the Nets? Just briefly. Any hope that maybe not in the regular season, but playoff-wise, they put it together? Like, I kind of default to the Nets when I get this question,

if only because best player wins the series typically, right? Like they almost beat the box last year with James Harden having one hamstring and without Kyrie Irving. Like if they have just like some Kyrie and Ben Simmons, is that enough? Well, I'd like to have a sense if any of their three best players are going to be on the floor and in what context and how good they look. So we'll see. Call me back in six weeks, I guess.

And by the best three, you mean Patty Mill, Seth Curry, Joe Harris. Actually, Andre Drummond is the third, but yes. Yeah. All right, let's move along here. So I brought up the bucks as my team almost intrigued in the bad way. Rob, who do you have? So mine, this is going to sound weird because it's a weird way to classify a team that is on a six-game winning streak,

playing some of the best basketball in the league right now. But my pick is the Utah Jazz, because I'm just kind of surprised to see them on this side of the deadline without any significant changes whatsoever. They didn't add another defender. They didn't trade Jordan Clarkson or Boyan Bogdanovich or any healthy player they had to trade. They didn't really get much deeper. They just brought in Nikiel Alexander Walker.

And so I guess they're just going to cross their fingers and hope that's good enough to get to the Western Conference finals, which maybe it is. They've looked good since Donovan Mitchell's been back in the lineup. I just don't, I can't look at this roster and this team and see anything but the same old story with them. You know, Ben, and I talked to Sarah Todd the other day on weekends with Waz. Every single Sunday, check that out. What feet is that on? That's on the ring of NBA feed. And, you know, she did mention, like, look, there is, there has been some extra friction.

We covered the sort of Rudy Gobert comments in public, all of that stuff. I see where it's at. And various saying that I'm too online, he's right because the other day I saw a tweet where somebody was mentioning that Rudy's significant other sat next to Donovan Mitchell's significant other, which means it was kumbaya. I was like, oh, I was like, I hey, come on. What are we doing right now in Utah? We need the All-Star break.

Yeah. But no, I share your concerns, Rob, to be honest. They've looked a little bit better recently. And it seems to be like an enthusiasm for. with like internally for the improvements, the incremental as they may have been, there seems to be some enthusiasm like, all right, maybe we're turning in a corner

and doing something well over here. My team that I'm like, all right, I'm looking at them in a sort of bad way. It's just Chicago, man. I just think the, this, there's a, how much can you rely on Demart de Rosen to just literally be Superman all year? long. And then, you know, Zach Levine

is missing more games. Is Lanzo coming back this season? Yeah, I mean, the question of how much you can depend on Demar, I think, is related to, well, how many guys are going to be out of the lineup for the foreseeable future? Like, is Lanzo even coming back? The AC thing, still,

again, up in the air, the last game, which they won again, they played without Zach Levine. And it's just like, man, as fun and as amazing as this season has been to watch to unfold in Chicago, everybody's been so pleasantly surprised by it. I wonder if, you know, the wind is going to leave their sales pretty soon here because

of the injury question. So I'm really worried about the bulls in that way. Like, if they had all their guys, man, I'd be excited to see what they could pull off against the four top guys in the east, those four, you know, Star Wars up there and just see what kind of noise Chicago could make in the playoffs if they had every single guy available to them. but that's not been the case and it doesn't seem like it's going to be the case.

A counterpoint for you. Nikola Vucovich, starting to look pretty good. Starting to play pretty well. Yeah, I'm done counting the Bulls out. Every time we're like, oh, I don't, this doesn't make any sense as a roster. It's like, oh, they go on on 10 game winning street.

And it's like, oh, they don't have X guy. It's just like they've won four straight. And like A. Oden Sumu, like, originally looked like just like a spark plug energy guy who could be fun for a couple of minutes. and all of a sudden is starting a point guard and looks like an all-rook guy who might be a valuable contributor down the stretch.

Patrick Williams might be back soon. So yes, I agree. I share your concerns. And like even at full strength, I wonder if they could defend well enough in order to stop some of these like high caliber offenses, especially now that there are more of them in Philly and Brooklyn seems to be sorting itself out.

But like, man, they just figure this shit out. Like I wouldn't be surprised if they make a second round this postseason. It's tough though, just because for everything we've said about the West, I never thought I'd see, the day, but the East is actually so

tough right now, so difficult, where the Bulls are having an incredible season. They're tied for first place in the East right now. And in terms of championship equity might be like the fourth most likely Eastern Conference team to make the finals, it's just brutal for as good as they've been.

Yeah, I wouldn't even put them at fourth, honestly. Like, I would put heat, sixers, nets, Celtics? Bucks. Yeah, I forgot the bucks. I might even put the Celtics ahead of them, just because at the very least you have two stars in Taterman Brown.

I don't know. You in 538, my friend. Yeah. I just believe in the math, you know, believe in the science. Let's pivot now to our last segment, which I'm calling buyout matchmaker. I really wanted to record a drop for this segment in which Rob Mahoney sang the first few bars of let the bodies hit the floor but change bodies for buyouts. He unfortunately refused, which is why you do not have that ensuring this section right now.

Well, we're just saving that. It's a great tease, Justin, from our upcoming podcast here at the ringer, 60 new metal songs to explain the NBA. If you've ever wanted to know how Papa Roach's last resort predicted this season of jazz basketball, please tune in next week.

We'll have that up for you. I thought you were going to say our new buyout market podcast, which considering the amount of time we spend talking about these guys, I wouldn't be surprised if it deserves a new podcast. Unfortunately, none of these guys will probably even be in a playoff rotation. And yet, let's talk about some buyout guys.

So I have a list here. I'm going to read off some names. And you guys tell me what team would be the best fit for them. Let's talk about a guy who is very much in the news right now being linked to a lot of the best contenders in the league. Gorin Drogich was. Gorin Drogich was. Goren Drogh just left San Antonio. Let's play a little matchmaker.

Who is his best fit for the rest of the season? You can always come home, baby. come home to the heat. At first I thought home was Toronto for a second. Oh, I thought you were going to say, Slovenia. No, but come home to the heat. Like, he already knows their offense to a T. He feels a need for them as far as an on-ball initiator

where it can't always be just Tyler Hero doing this all day whenever Lowry's not. I just think that would just round out their ball handling rotation so beautifully. And again, his relationship with Spow and Jimmy and all of the guys is as solid as can be. The heat to me is the

obvious no-brainer and makes the most sense to me. I think that's a very natural dot to connect. For me, given their needs that we talked about earlier, why not Milwaukee? Why can't he be the guard to plug into the rotation? Play for a championship team. Give them minutes. Give them

something they need. That seems like a pretty clean fit too. Yeah, he seems like hope he used a lot in Milwaukee. The other obvious one, which I eventually, we'll mention for all of these guys, the Los Angeles Lakers, probably just walks in and starts for them at this point. Yes. Yes. That's every single person. That's every single player on this list, by the way. So to replace Norm Powell, you're saying? I mean, just to give them a little bit more ball handling, a little bit more of a presence there. And if, I mean, if we wanted to go a little further down the list, if it was more important to Goran to play versus to compete for a time,

title. I think Denver could be really good. I think there's a lot of opportunity to play there, and he could actually improve them in a pretty significant way. Their guard minutes have just been pretty dire. And him and Yokic in a two-man game would just be, whoo. That'd be nice. That'd be nice. Gary Harris, soon to be, we assume late of the Orlando Magic, all star of the buyout market posts that are going around right now, potential three and D wing. Rod. Where do you think he would fit the best? Maybe future Cleveland Cavalier. Interesting.

That's a zag. Is it? I mean, they need shooting. They need a guy who they can get a little bit more offense from the Isaac Acoro spot situationally. You know, if you want to have the stopper out there, that's great. If you want to have another shooter to give more room to Leverd and Garland, then you have this option.

I think he could be, he could, he fills a really natural void in that roster in terms of a guy who's shot is finally coming back. to him after all this time and could just knock down some threes for them. By the way, point of attack defense isn't as important when you have Mowgli and Jared Allen back there. Like, you can de-emphasize that, which, look, as much as I love Garland, Lavert, you know, does what it, that's not what they're here to do. That's not what they get paid to do, right? And so Gary Harris would be an amazing anecdote to that, or antidote. I don't know why I said anecdote.

But I would like to see Gary Harris in Utah for basically the same reasons. Look, I think ideally they would have guys who were a little less light in the shorts as perimeter defenders, right? Like, Gary Harris isn't really the most stout when it comes to the bigger wings. But when it comes to just some level

of on-the-ball resistance at all, please, for the love of God, get somebody in Utah who can perform that task. I would love to see Gary Harris over there. You know what team could use some defense and probably a little bit more shooting? Los Angeles Lakers. So are this your answer for every player? Oh, we'll see here. So let's move on to Dennis Schrooter.

Former Los Angeles Laker late now of the Boston Celtics will presumably be let go by the Houston Rockets unless they want to experiment with some three-guard lineups between him and Kevin Porter Jr. and Jalen Green. But if he does shake-free Rob, do you see a natural fit for our guy, Dennis Schrooter? Well, how about to another of his former teams, back to Atlanta with Dennis Schroeder, a team that is perpetually in need of somebody to come in and play behind Trey Young and run an offense? Even for as many guys as they have, as many mounted feed in that offense as they have, I could see it. I could see some improved point guard play.

If Dennis Schroeder is again willing to play a backup role, again, willing to play nice with others. We'll have to see on that. But I like the fit. Yeah, it's just the right minutes and the Lou Will minutes when they're trying to anchor the offense, when Tray's not on the floor, it's just always doesn't look right. I think Schrooter would be amazing at that for them. I wouldn't mind seeing him in Charlotte as well, because again, when it's not Lonzo, then

it's not scary Terry. Lamello. Excuse me. Lamello. Sorry. Sorry to the ball brothers. I just did what my mom does to me and my brother all the time and call us by the wrong name. I think it's Charlotte.

There would be a fit there too because, again, it's really from the guard positions as far as, you know, offensive initiation, it's scary Terry and it's Lamello and it's just basically that's that's the, that's it. So he would be a great third ball. handler over in Charlotte. I like the Hornets pickup of Montres Harrell, kind of on the low there. I mean, he got let go for a very, very low price, which makes me think that maybe things weren't going well for him chemistry-wise in the wizard's locker room.

But, like, he fits a lot of what the Hornets want to do, just get up and down. Well, not a low price to the Hornets, though, for exactly what Woz is circling here, which is they gave up Ish Smith, who they had really come to rely on. Now we can plug that hole with a buyout guy like Dennis Schrooter. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So for Schroeder, I'm going to say of the Los Angeles Lakers yet again, but I actually mean it this time just because like I know maybe the situation might not be a happy one there. But in terms of like fit and need, I can't see a clear just just fit. It just seems like they need someone to basically be what they wanted Schroeder to be when they traded for him last season. Just being able to drive the offense, being able to like handle the ball when they.

LeBron is not on the court. I guess that means relegating Russell Westbrook to a bench roll, but it already sounds like they're toying with that idea, or at the very least, Frank Vogel is in fucking mode to the point where he just doesn't care anymore. But I do think they kind of need that. Benching. No, no, I agree that they need that.

But the idea that, you know, you're benching Russell Westbrook to bring back Dennis Schrooter, that is just, who, that is poetic in ways that, We don't even have the time to explain right here. But yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing Dennis back here in L.A. That would be a great fit for them because, again, they haven't had a guy who can do anything with the ball who's not LeBron. It's one guy, the whole damn season. Another just wrinkle to the Lakers just slow descent into oblivion, into out of even the play-in range,

is apparently they didn't even bother to clear a roster space at the trade deadline. So whatever they do, they're going to have to waive someone, which will only add to their luxury tax bill. So it just keeps getting worse there. Like, I don't know what's going on. I don't know if we want to wait into the muddy waters of like what's being reported about them lately where it's like on the one hand they were holding the line against LeBron and AD and telling them, no, you made this mess. Now you have to deal with it. But on the other hand, like basically conceding that they did whatever they wanted, which shows them to be kind of just like, I don't know, just like minor players in this grand scheme of thing. It's really ugly.

And it's gotten to the point where like even reporters in the same staff are putting out conflicting messages. I'll just, I'll just say that. Well, it's a noisy organization in general. But I love this world that you've created where they're going to cut like three guys making $2 million a piece to sign three buyout players in a world where those buyout players want to play for the Lakers this season. God bless everybody.

Let me ask you this, though. Are they not better with those three players than whatever three guys we can clear out of that roster? I mean, you're not wrong. Yeah. All right. Last couple here. Eric Woodsoe.

How about Chicago? Hmm. Love that fit. You know, not the shooter they need, but in terms of the energy, in terms of the defense, you can see him kind of like revving up their fast break engine once they get Caruso and Lonzo and those guys back.

Maybe he doesn't play a ton because I would assume who's been so good, but, you know, you can have alternative. You can have a more veteran option. Also, him and L. not, him and AC are like similar players in that their value is mostly based on the defensive end. And anything that they do on offense becomes just like, all right, all right, thank you.

All right, that was nice, a nice little extra. You know, I really do think they mirror each other in those ways. And, yeah, that would be a pretty nice, nice move for those guys. When did Alex Caruso become blessed to only be AC, no even first reference? Or the first reference is AC. Yeah. Well, he is Waz's all-time favorite player. Yeah.

So I'm always going to call him by the nickname. We don't even need to say his whole. When we say AC, there's no other ACs out there. You know, people watch as me might think of Slater, but that's about it. Or green. Yeah. Yeah. But other than that, it's AC, baby.

Okay. Anyone for Bledso that you like, was? It's tough, man. Especially when you think about this stretch playoff run and Bledso has had so many playoff flameouts at this point. But again, defensively, I do think he would make sense for the jazz. They need perimeter defense. They need wing defense.

And at this point in Eric Bledsoe's career, it's so obviously his number one strength by far, particularly when he's engaged, right? We've seen it sometimes where he gets to a situation with a team where he's less engaged. But I think as a perimeter defender, I think he would make sense with Utah, for sure. And the last guys, I have my list,

a combo of centers. Robin Lopez, Tristan Thompson. Rob, any team mean to center out there? The Philadelphia 76ers do. Let me tell you. Don't you dare relegate Paul Reed to the third team.

Don't do it. I'm going to take Tristan Thompson there in the case that the Pacers buy him out at all because they kind of need him to play minutes. The Pacers don't have any bigs. Goga Patase accepted. I don't know what the Pacers are doing.

Like, they're probably going to be good to even get a top five pick, which seemed to be the entire theory behind what they're doing. They're not going to be that good. There are a lot of bad teams. Let me just tell you. Well, we'll see. Things can always get weird. But if Tristan Thompson is bought out, I think Philly is a natural fit.

That was kind of the unseen cost of doing the Ben Simmons-Simmons-hardt deals. Drummond was probably the best backup Joel Embed has ever had. He's actually played pretty well this season. And in a way, is a model for guys like Bledso, these quote-unquote stars of a certain age who are now just like role guys basically. And the fact that they're going to be missing that, I think is substantial. They need an actual five to back up and beat. I think

Tristan Thompson could be that guy. Lopez, maybe the Warriors, hmm. I just think they need a little more size through the stretch. Especially, the absolute last thing I want to do at this point is overtaxed Raymond when he comes back. So anything that can help me avoid

that is my top priority in the buyout market. And by the way, I love the idea of Steve Kerr getting Tristan Thompson because he's the exact type of player that he would play way too many minutes and pissed the hell out of Warriors fans everywhere.

So that I love as an idea. Also, what about a homecoming? Tristan Thompson, go home, Toronto. I know that, I know. I'm not going to say Cleveland. No, no. This actual ancestral home. I know that the Raptors are kind of like

we don't really need a center. They kind of feel like they're too hipster for centers. But I think Tristan Thompson still has a little bit of his athleticism left to execute what Coach Nurse wants to do on defense, which is a really chaotic defense. And I just think, you know, as a guy who could actually be a center with some heft to not get pushed around by 9 out of 10 NBA centers, unlike a lot of the guys that Toronto now employees. I would like to see Tristan in Toronto

going back to Scarborough. Is he from Mississauga? He's from one of those Toronto suburbs. Well, especially if you're in the East playoff picture this season, you have to at least at the back of your mind say, who is not going to get

thrown around like a ragdoll when Joelle Embed or Janice Hunter de Kumbo or even like the Cavs Bigs come into our building? I think it has to be on your mind. Producer Isaiah says Brampton. It's Brampton. It's Brampton. My bad.

Yeah. Don't kill me, T. Dot. Yeah. I was going to say the Mavericks, just to get a senator in there, like basically do the new age Bobon and just have Robin Lopez shoot hooks

for 15 minutes a game. It's like, do that. Right now, you're missing some size. I don't know if Dallas Bertans is even a rotation player for them. So there you go. Well, he was last night. Let me tell you.

Probably his best game in two years all of a sudden. sudden. Great. Great. I'm happy for them. All right. Let's wrap it there. Enjoy your All-Star break. We'll be back next week. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Be on the lookout for our new buyout podcast starting next week where Rob drops that new metal riff. Rob, you want to do it? You want to hit it one time? I think we're going to save it. I think we're going to save for next week. All right. We'll see you next time.