The Ringer NBA Show - Most Underrated Player in the NBA With Chris Mannix (Ep. 88)

Episode Date: March 23, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon is joined by The Vertical's Chris Mannix to discuss Avery Bradley's expanded game (5:00), Bradley Beal's scoring (12:00), contenders in the Eastern Conference (15:00), Isaiah Thomas's thoughts on the Celtics' top pick (22:00), Tony Parker's impact on the Spurs (28:00), and the top prospect in the 2017 draft (35:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Thanks for spreading the word. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me today is Chris Mannix from The Vertical. Forget my voice, Chris. It's allergy season. There's no DMP rests with the Ringer NBA show. So I'll power through.

Just put up with me. And I thought it was after a night on Beale Street. I'm disappointed in you, man. I wish. I wish. There's a million people in town because there is, you know, the Memphis Regional is going on with all these big-time teams. But I was a crushing blow this morning.

For people that listen to this podcast know, I was going to make it my life's mission. to hang out with Levar Ball, and I was told this morning not coming in town. Devastating. And then I like, then I turned on the TV and he's like on first take. It's a double-edged sword, though, with LeVar Ball, though. Like, do you want to give him, you know, at one hand he's entertaining? On the other hand, do you really want to give him more platforms to talk on?

He just continues to say things that are just, you know, ridiculous and shamelessly self-promoting. I don't know. Like I've never, you know, and maybe if Lonzo winds up somewhere and he winds up being a star and you've got to do a story of him, obviously you talk to LeBar Ball. But the idea of just, you know, giving him a platform to let him just bloviate about the ridiculous. It doesn't really appeal to me. All right. You're going to love this. So I said that to somebody.

I said, oh, I'm so disappointed. LeVar Ball is not going to be in town. And this is what their response was, yeah, probably after the LeBron stuff, he probably just wants to lay low. And I was like, oh, maybe so. I turned on the TV. He's on first take this morning. Yeah, I don't think there's, I don't think there's any laying low in LaVar Ball. I think we learned if he's not going to back down after comments made to Steph Curry about his son being better than him or saying he was better than Michael Jordan, there's nothing that LeVar Ball is going to back down to.

Yeah, he's really not coming to the regional because he wants to lay low. He's on first day. No, no chance. Yeah, bigger platform for him to talk on. All right, so I want to ask you about this article that you wrote this week about the most underrated player in the NBA. And you named that Avery Bradley. Before I get into Avery Bradley, when you're going to decide, all right, I'm going to write and I'm going to call somebody the most underrated player, you're clearly going to go through and you're going to say, all right, is there anybody I'm missing here? Right?

Because am I going to get blowback with people saying, Avery Bradley, he's not more underrated than, you know, fill in the blank. So who else did you consider before you wrote about Avery being, giving him this title? Well, look, I had thought about writing this column going back December, early January, but then Bradley wound up hurting his Achilles and that sidelined him for most of the next two months. And in considering, you know, other options, there really wasn't too many that crossed my mind. I mean, the closest comparison might be a Chris Middleton in Milwaukee, but he's been hurt, obviously, with injury for most of this season. Other than that, when you look at the criteria, which is, you know, some of it's kind of, some of it's directed to statistics, some of it's directed at salary, but a lot of it is just, is anybody paying attention to this guy? Avery just fit all the mold. I mean, I feel like most people that watch NBA games know Avery Bradley as.

a high-level defensive player. They think of him as kind of a, you know, Boston's version of Tony Allen. But the reality is Avery Bradley has evolved over the last two or three years into a really high-level offensive players. Three-point shot has come up to around 40 percent. He is an elite rebounder for his position, and he's a solid passer. And look, he's never going to get the notoriety that I say at Thomas Stets or even the ink that Al Orpard gets in Boston.

But every night, including Wednesday night against the Pacers, He just stops the stat sheet and does his job. And that, to me, is the type of player that, you know, again, with an $8 million per year salary, which is incredibly low for a player like him, that just makes him a rock-solid choice there. Okay, so when you're talking about the most underrated player, I think the first thing is it's like usually, it's somebody that hasn't gotten their just deserts. They have not been an all-star, right? And so you throw off a guy like Gordon Hayward.

Gordon Hayward was kind of in the talk along with Mike Conley. and others as the best guy in the league that hasn't made an all-star team, right? And so you kind of look at that. When I went through and looked, the ones I wrote down were C.J. McCollum, right? Because he hasn't made an all-sart. I mean, I guess people have a higher opinion of McCollum than possibly Bradley. Danilo Gallinari, I thought was a decent one. Like, you go look at his numbers.

The guy's like almost 18 points a game, 45% from the field, 39% from three. and he's like perfect for the way that teams play nowadays. And the other one I wrote down, which is not unlike Bradley. And this one, because you want to talk about getting dwarfed by another guy on your team's pub, is Oladipo. Oladipo is averaging 16 points and 45% from the field and has become a 38% three point shooter. And also a guy that I like on defense, right? I think Oladipo and Bradley are kind of like each other. but in the sense...

They're comparable. Yeah, right? Nobody really pays that much attention, but it's not just... He's having a really good season playing alongside Russell Westbrook. Depot is. Yeah, he... The comparison is apt because, you know, of the player he's playing alongside,

getting most of the attention, you know, 90 plus percent of the attention. I do think that Bradley's a significantly better defensive player than Ola Depot is right now. Not to say Olipo is bad, but Avery Bradley's elite. I mean, you know, he is a weapon that Brad Stevens can deploy on anyone from a point guard to a three man. We saw him defending Paul George on Wednesday night. We've seen him, you know, on John Wall at times. Bradley Field had a really rough fourth quarter on Monday largely because, you know, Avery Bradley made his life a living hell.

And, you know, all the depots have those types of moments, but it's not there. Plus, you know, Bradley is not just a very good three-point shooter, but he's almost become, you know, a poor man's Ray Allen rubbing off screen and making mid-range jump shot. He is really good at doing that. And I asked him about this recently for that, my column. And, you know, I assumed it was the influence of Ray Allen, who, you know, Bradley played with for a couple of years while they were in Boston.

But, you know, he said, no, it wasn't. It was actually Jerome Allen, the assistant coach with the Celtics, who has really worked with him extensively over the last. two years and emphasize the need to be really good coming off screen. So, you know, Bradley, his level of improvement the last couple of years, his defensive intensity, the fact that he just makes shots consistently, I don't know, Chris. I mean, I think that he is, not only he the most underrated player, but I think there's a decent-sized gap between Bradley and everybody else.

Okay, so let me ask you about the whole story that he almost quit basketball at 15. What's that about? I mean, yeah, this stuff like that is, you know, he's talked about, extensively in the past. He's very hard on himself, but he was hard of himself early in his career, getting back to his high school days, you know, even to his time at college. And of course, the early years in Boston. I mean, I can't imagine how moralizing it must have been for a rookie to walk into that 2010 Celtic team, that 2010-11 Celtics team that was, I believe, just off that finals appearance and with still some veteran players like Garnett and Ray and Paul Pierce,

that, especially Garnett, that can make a rookie's life of living hell. And Bradley has talked about how difficult it was for him to fit into that team and how tough it was to gain confidence. He just did it. He did it in the most simple way possible. He just went to work and made his game better. And if you look at what he's done each and every year over the last four or five years, it's something new.

It's the mid-range jump shot. It's rebounding. This year and last year, it's been an increase in the number and the accuracy of his three-point shot. I mean, he is a true throwback at his position who has, you know, really worked himself at a relatively undersized for his position into becoming a terrific two-way player. It's always easy to say this like in retrospect, but it could very well be the best thing that ever happened to him. Because if you get drafted, you know, if you go high, you know, you played one year in Texas, you get drafted high on like some shit team and a lot's expected of you. and you don't like develop the same way that he did, which was, you know, D-League, then not a ton of minutes. And then by, you know, by year three, he's like a starter.

Like the fit might have actually been perfect for the kind of player he is development-wise. And that whole, you know that like they cared so deeply about defense on that team and that you kind of fall into the mold that, all right, I know I can get on the court if I really dee somebody up. I don't know. Like, does Avery Bradley develop into what he's developed into if he lands on a bad team? I don't know. Yeah, it's a good question. And, you know, I wonder if a bad team might have tried to force him into a position he wasn't comfortable at. Now, clearly, Avery Bradley is an established two guard in this league, but it wasn't long ago where people were wondering, could he evolve into a point guard?

and Boston, you know, had themselves a great point guard back then in Rajan Rondo. They had no need for a point guard. So they kind of allowed Avery to grow organically, like you said. They sentenced to D-League and, you know, progressively increased his minutes. And eventually, you know, I think his development was part of the reason that Ray Allen left after that 2012 season. And Bradley was able to step in to a starter's role. So, you know, he was allowed to develop on his own time. And that was important because another team might have force fed him point guard.

And I don't think Avery Bradley would be anywhere near as effective a player as a point guard as he developed into as a two-man. It's interesting what you said about the whole Wizards game too because that's another one that needs to be thrown in there who he has, you know, I think part of his underratedness or not being an all-star is simply because he hasn't been able to stay on the court. But Beal has turned into an amazing player. Like, he's an offensive. He's an offensive juggernaut, Chris. Yeah, there are a lot of people in the NBA that felt that Bradfield should have gotten that last all-star spot, not Carmelo Anthony, you know, based on the way he's played

and the fact the way the Wizards played up until this point in the season. I mean, he, you know, the key for Bradley Beale has been held. And I give Scott Brooks a ton of credit for, you know, finding something manageable with Bradley Beal, whether it comes to, you know, making sure the practice time isn't over-extended. one thing Scott told me is that he's talked to these guys about, you know, not being quite so, what's the word? Just putting quite so much effort in after practice. It's great to be, you know, be a workaholic.

But if you're a guy like Bradley Beal and you've been dealing with leg injuries, you want to give yourself as much rest as you possibly can. That's been something that's been emphasized by Scott Brooks with his team. So it's always been a question of health. His jump shot's always been there. He's just now been able to stay healthy. and truly evolve into the player we all thought he was going to be. So Cleveland's got two more games left than does Boston,

but Boston is one game back. What are the chances Boston's the number one seed? In your mind? I think there's a great chance. And putting the schedule aside, you know, you just look at the way these two teams are trending right now. And Cleveland's not playing great basketball. And Boston's playing its best of the season.

I mean, the Celtics right now, you know, they're experimenting and they're still winning. I mean, you're seeing big lineups tossed out there by Brad Stevens. the types of lineups he hasn't used for most of the year because he's recognizing that a first-round matchup with Miami or with Detroit is going to force him to play at Tyler Zeller or to play Olinick and Al-Horford extended minutes together in that front line. So he's experimenting and still winning. That says something about where Boston is, you know, basically one through ten right now with its roster. So I think there's a good chance. But, you know, when you talk to people in Cleveland, one of the things they tell you is that does it really matter all that much? this year with that top seat in the east because if they wind up winning their first round series,

whoever it may be. The first seed right now is facing a series against Toronto. And is Toronto a favorable opponent compared to Boston or Washington in that second round? Not if they're healthy, not of Kyle Lowry's back, not with the addition of Sergei Bocke to that team. So obviously not having home court for conference finals is an issue. But there are people in Cleveland that are looking at the playoff racket and saying, I'm not so sure that avoiding Toronto when that second round isn't a potentially good thing. How about before we even get to the second round, I'd much rather play Indiana than Miami right now.

Oh, yeah, I wouldn't want any part of Miami. Miami is, this is Eric Spolster's finest coaching job. I mean, it really is. I mean, you know, to go from 11.30 to right around 500 right now, to be able to put Dion Waiters in positions that make him a star. I mean, wherever Deon Waiter signs next season, and he has Sacramento Kings written all over him, but wherever he signs next season, he should send a portion of his check back to Eric Spolstra. I mean, Eric Spolstra has helped to unlock the three-point shooter and Dion Waiters and put him in positions where he's got the ball in the fourth quarter and he's allowed to make plays.

I mean, this team is so vastly under-talented. They've got two guys that are borderline all-stars, and the rest of the team, you know, they're okay, but they're not great by any stretch. I mean, this to me is their exposure's greatest effort. And a team like that, I wouldn't want to touch if I was in the first round. They just find ways to win, and that's not the type of first round opponent you want. Well, and hell, they could move up. We could look up and they could be the six seed for going to sakes,

because they're only one game back from Milwaukee and the Pacers. Yeah, and they've got a couple of tough games coming up. Miami will be in Boston on Sunday, so that'll be a good litmus test for where they are. But you're right. I mean, there still is a lot of fluidity in these Eastern Conference standings. I mean, Toronto is going to get Lowry back at some point. They could make a run. Washington is not playing well right now at all.

So they could flip when I'm slipping to that number four seed. It's very tough to kind of project and prepare for any prospective opponents, given where we are with this bracket. I don't think anybody thought in the Eastern Conference that once you got past those top four teams, and it may just shake out that way, where we end up seeing Cleveland, Boston, in Washington and Toronto playing each other in the semis. But I don't think anybody really respected five through eight as teams that really had a chance. Atlanta, Milwaukee, Indiana, Miami for a time Chicago or Detroit or Charlotte was kind of in the mix.

Whereas now Milwaukee's won eight of their last 10. We just talked about Miami. They've been scolding hot. Like it kind of feels like some of the teams that are five through eight could be really dangerous now in the first round of the Eastern Conference playoffs. and I don't think any of us thought that was possible a month ago. Yeah, they could be, Chris, but I don't know. I mean, you know, Milwaukee okay, but without Jabari, they don't scare me quite as much.

They've been better without him, though. They've been better. They've been better. They've been better. But in the playoffs, being down a score like that, I don't know. I mean, it's a different game in the postseason when the defense is ratchet up. And you need, this is why Boston is so desperate to find other scores outside of Isaiah, which is why they're doing cartwheels when Bradley and Jalen Brown have big nights.

I just don't have the confidence that Milwaukee in a postseason series of one of those top four teams is going to find ways to score enough to win four out of seven. Detroit's had all year long get the rack together. They're not going to do it at this point. And as much as Miami scares me, talent does usually win out in the end. So I still think we're barreling towards those four teams facing off in the second round. Look, I'm loving that because there is real animosity amongst those teams in the second round. Toronto does not like Cleveland.

Boston hates Miami, Washington hates Boston, and vice versa. I mean, there is going to be some real personal series taking place when these two teams start to meet in that second round. All right. I know the whole, you know, the whole funeral thing, wearing all black, all that stuff that's going on with the Celtics and the Wizards. But what I've lost on is where that all originated. What was the first thing that really like caused? Because it wasn't like some monster playoff battles that are in the, in the memory of every NBA fan's minds,

which is typically where those things start, right? You have these wars in the playoffs, and then these teams end up really hating each other, right? Where did the Boston-Washington thing start? Oh, you trace is back to last season. And if you remember, Jay Crowder and Randy Whitman going at it in a game last year, and they played some very close games against the Wizards last year. They got pretty physical.

And now this year, with Washington on the rise and then becoming natural rivals, that sort of bubbling animosity was just naturally taken to another level. And look, you know, Isaiah and John Wall are pretty tight, so they're not going to have, you know, too much of an angry rival. But Jay Crowder's like anybody on that team. And Jay Crowder and John Wall have bumped heads. And it's happened a couple of times over the course of this season. So it's really centered in a lot of ways on him and what happened with him and Whitman last year.

And it's been taken to another level by the fact that both these teams are fighting for that same spot this year. All right. Before we get back into Avery Bradley, a quick word from our sponsor. Today's episode is brought to you by The Ringer NFL show. That's where the Ringer's Mike Lombardi and Tate Fraser host GM Street. After years of working in the league with football grades like Al Davis, Bill Walsh, and Bill Belichick, Mike Lombardi gives his insider perspective on everything happening this offseason. You can subscribe to the Ringer NFL show on iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud, or wherever you get podcast.

Let me circle back and ask you one more question about the Avery Bradley thing. One of the things you mentioned is he does have this amazing contract on the Celtic side, not on his side. But he's going to be coming up for a contract at the same time as, Isaiah Thomas. And are we barreling towards a maxing both? And the other thing, and see if you can answer both of these, is I was talking to somebody today, and I was talking to him about the NBA draft, Markell Fultz and Lanzo Ball and all this.

And they said, what's going to be interesting is if Boston gets the number one pick in the draft, which is certainly a possibility, right? and the best players in this draft by by and large are point guards. Would they then take a point guard? Are they going to pay Isaiah Thomas $30 million was the question asked to me? And my immediate answer was probably, yeah. And they said, what did they get the number one pick? And so now I pose it to you.

You're way more tapped into that situation than I would be. In two years, what happens if you had to guess right now with Thomas and Bradley and would that change dramatically given Boston's draft pick and the elite players that are in this draft? Yeah, let me answer that question in a couple of ways. You know, take the draft pick off the table right now. And if you're just looking at Thomas and Bradley entering this off season, and Boston has the opportunity to open up those contracts and extend them this summer. I think Isaiah Thomas is far more likely than not to find some kind of common ground,

with the Celtics and agreed to a long-term contract extension there. Isaiah does not want to go into next year just making $6 million. It's far too big a risk. So I think he'll find some kind of middle ground. It's not going to be $30 million. But maybe it's in that $20 to $25 million per year type of range that makes sure he gets paid right away. But it gives the Celtics a little bit of cap relief in getting this deal done.

Now, as far as Avery Bradley goes, that's when you have to start lumping him back in with the draft pick and trades that Boston could make. make with that draft pick coming up. I mean, I don't think Boston is inclined to open up Bradley's contract and destroy the rest of their cap space in making a new deal with him. They're just, my lay of the land is that they're not all that motivated to do that right now. But that mid-May night, Chris, when at that lottery, that's going to determine a lot about the future of the Celtics. If they get one, they could go in one direction. They get four. They can go in another direction. They are committed at some point, I believe, to going back to that well and talking the Bulls about Jimmy Butler, who I think is going to get moved this summer and talking to the patience about Paul George who will have to decide if he's going to sign a long-term extension this summer.

So there's a lot of pieces in play. One thing I do know, and it's a nebulous statement, but I'll kind of put it out there, that Isaiah Thomas is not going to be at all happy if they wind up drafting Markle-Foltz-Lonzo ball. Now, that may be an obvious statement. I know he hasn't said anything publicly, but my understanding of all this is that Thomas is not at all in favor of Boston drafting one of those two guys. For obvious reason, their point guards, their young players. Thomas wants to get veterans like a Butler or George that can help this team win right away if he heads towards 30. It's going to be a very complicated and a very interesting next two months as we go through the lottery

and the draft in early July because it's a lot of ways that Danny Age can go with this team. Well, and it would be super interesting if, like, say they got the number one pick, they did get it, and then you've got the Lakers there with, like, three or four, and they're going, hey, we'll trade up to get that so they can take their, you know, their future guy in Lanzo Ball, and maybe you trade down, get an extra piece, and you take Jason Tatum or somebody that would be a better fit, right, for what Boston's got going already.

Yeah, they could do that. No question. But I do think their priorities are going to be veterans. You know, look, I don't blame Danny Aange for not mortgaging the future to get a guy like Jimmy Butler, nor do I blame him for not doing it even more to get Paul George. You got to understand with – and this is the case, not just now, but with teams in the past, it's a very tough to get teams to give away or trade away guys that they're homegrown. And Paul George and Jimmy Butler, neither one of these guys was blue chip talent, you know, you know, sure-fire NBA

draft pick. They were groomed by their teams and by these executives and these coaches with these teams. It's really tough to get them to move off those types of players. And this summer could be a perfect storm for Boston because, you know, look, Chicago's got to do something,

whether it's front office coach or roster. They've got to shake things up. That opens an opportunity for Butler once again. And if Paul George, like we know, if he turns down that extension from Indiana, Larry Byrd's going to have a very tough decision to make, and he might have to move on for him for the best possible deal. So I think Boston's priority is going to be getting better right away.

I mean, you know Danny Ames and Wick Grousebeck, the group there, they're aggressive. I mean, they're not looking to build slowly. They want to win right now, and I see them taking a risk dealing one of those top two picks to get an established player. That being said, why didn't they make a deal at the trade deadline? Just couldn't, you know, because it feels like, you know, probably if they were that some of the, these teams probably wanted a King's ransom for guys, but I think everybody keeps waiting for Danny Ains to pull the trigger on something, and he hasn't. You know, I think that the deal that they kicked themselves for not being able to finalize

isn't George, isn't Butler, it's Nerlin's the Well. I mean, they chased Nerland's a well for about six months. They badly wanted to extract him and put him on that front line because they know that Al Horford both hates being a center and isn't very good rebounding at that position. So they wanted Noel to pair next to Horford. They were willing to pay him when he became a free agent the following this upcoming summer. That's the one that bothered them.

They tried on Butler. They tried on George. They made competitive offers with those nets picks on the table, but they just couldn't get a deal done that wouldn't have given away the store for those types of guys. So the only deal that I know that I really think that they bought them was disappointed they couldn't get done is what they went from Philadelphia, because Philadelphia didn't get a heck of a lot from Dallas in that deal.

Yeah, isn't that a pretty easy one to say in retrospect but call BS on? Like, how are you going to tell me that you went hard after Nerlands Noel? Like, it's not like, it's not like some kind of, they got some kind of great return on Noel. Like, you didn't go that hard, I don't think. Yeah, I mean, look, I do know that, you know, Philadelphia had, you know, Wade offers from Boston, which were pretty significant. I don't know the specifics of all of them. But I just, at Boston's front office, which, you know, wishes that they went back

and probably wishes that they were a little more aggressive towards the end after seeing that it's basically two second round pick and Justin Anderson to get Noel out of Philadelphia. I just think that's one they're probably kicking themselves for. There's probably 15 teams around the league that are, too. I think everybody saw that deal and was like, what the hell? Like, we would have given up to that to get Nerlands, Noel? Stunning. And look, Noel, you know, not to get off track here, but, you know, it's a great move to, you know,

both help Dirk Novitsky now, maybe get into the playoffs and, you know, give him an opportunity to make one more, one more mini run, and also for the future. Because Noel, with the right guys around him, he can be a long-time starter in this league. All right, Chris, let me move to the Western Conference real quick. what are you thinking on the Durant situation? You know, they're doing this whole cautious optimism. He could come back by the end of the regular season. Level of concern that Durant is not Kevin Durant come playoff time.

You know, I don't think there's a high level of concern right now in Golden State. From everything I'm hearing, it's optimism right now for how Kevin Durant is coming along for where he's at right now. in his recovery. It's very much on track, and their hope is still that a week to 10 days, maybe even earlier, before the start of the playoffs, they get Kevin Durant back and allow him to kind of work his way back into shape before the start of the postseason. So, you know, it's not, they're not all that concerned right now out in Golden State. Certainly they're more worried at the moment about the shooting of Curry and Thompson. That's been uneven over these last couple of weeks and obviously the importance of Durant has never been more clear than how been the result

of how they've played in Golden State. But they're feeling pretty confident right now, I think, that Durant comes back and that he's able to get himself back into a rhythm before at least the start of the second round when things are going to get interesting in Golden State. As everything is playing out, do you view there to be a huge gap between Golden State and everybody else in the West, or do you put San Antonio in Houston in a group with them? Oh, no. I don't think there's that big a gap between Golden State San Antonio. That's for sure. I mean, Houston, you know, they just don't play enough defense yet to make me think they're real scary in a game in a series like that. They're great offensively. But, you know, they're about, I think, 13th in defensive efficiency, I want to say, somewhere between 10 and 15. If they were inside that top 10, I think they'd be a little bit more of a threat. But, you know, defensively, I just don't see them getting enough stops. That's not a problem in San Antonio. San Antonio is one. once again, an elite defensive team.

And look, they've done this before. They've been the Dragon Slayer before. They're the ones that broke up the Miami Heat back in 2014. They're completely comfortable playing against Golden State, as we've seen in the games they've played against them this season. I like them. I mean, if they wind up with that first overall seed, which I know is getting a little bit more difficult by the day,

I would make them the favorite in a series like that. And, you know, look, if Tony Parker, who I think is the linchpin to all this, If he's able to give you 75% of what Golden State's getting from Steph Curry, I think San Antonio wins that series. That is a really, really tough series for Golden State. A seven-game series is a team that's done this for. And you can certainly argue with Paul Gasol now coming off the bench, they might be a little bit better team-wise than what they were last year with Tim Duncan.

Did you say Tony Parker giving you 75% of what Steph Curry can? If he can. You want me to answer that for you? I mean, look, I mean, Steph's an MVP, but, you know, Parker, Tony Parker. I don't have his numbers off. Yeah, he's not, he's not good anymore. Oh, yeah, but he is still the head of the snake with that team.

Now, look, you ask any scout to watch these guys play, you know, he's got to play well. He has got to play really well. And Pops done a good job of managing his minutes this season, but the way. way the Western Conference shapes up, it's not just Steph Curry, whether he has to play against Westbrook or Chris Paul, whoever these alphas are in the Western Conference at the point guard position, he's

got to be that guy. He has got to, he is he is the wild card in what San Antonio can do. If he plays well, the Spurs can win a championship. If he doesn't, they might knock you out of the second round. Yeah, Mills is, you know, Mills is having a good season again, right? But it just feels like Tony Parker

used to just be able to destroy your defense, just get in the lane, all the time and he doesn't he doesn't do that nearly like he used to um it would be he had his moments though chris he has his moments man i've watched a few games i'm trying to think up the top of my head where he has had some brilliant performances late in game he's not what he used to be don't get me wrong he's not and he's not capable of probably playing more than 30 to 32 minutes a night in a postseason game but if he can just be a 13 14 point per game score and be a threat from beyond the three point line, that's a huge, huge plus for the spurs.

Well, the interesting thing would be the two big guys and how well do Aldridge and Gasol play? Can you play them together against the Warriors with a lot of success, right? Because there's going to be that ying and yang where it's like, all right, now they're going big. Do the warriors just totally expose that by going small or does it create you a real advantage against them? where there's only one Draymond, right? And so you really have to make them pay for not being big. We haven't seen a lot of that death line up this year, have we? I mean, they're playing their centers, you know, 45, 48 minutes a night with McGee and Petulia

and Plugged David West into that mix as well. You're not seeing it. I don't know what the exact numbers are, but you're not seeing a lot of that Draymond Green lead death line. Now, I don't know if that's because Steve Kerr intentionally, isn't as big a fan of it as it used to be, or P's just trying to save up that lineup for the postseason. But what you're talking about, just based on the regular season alone, maybe it's not a big variable.

Maybe we will see Aldridge and Gassau going up against McGee slash Petulia and Draymond Green. So, you know, this has been one of those years where that lineup has just not been as big a factor as it's been in the past for this team. Wow. So you are a big San Antonio fan, Mannix. You really think to think. I'm huge. I am all.

and Kauai Leonard is my MVP, San Antonio, Alderman. I mean, look, even Dwayne Dedman. I mean, I think it's been great that Pop has moved Paul Gasol basically to that second unit for much of the last few weeks because, you know, I think he's better there. I think you have a guy now that can anchor that second unit. And, you know, you get an extra score with that group. I think Deadman, he's not at all good by any stretch,

but he can defend a little bit, he'll rebound a little bit. And that's really all you need with that starting lineup. If you move Gassau and play him with the second unit guys, all of a sudden, I think you've given yourself a weapon that they didn't have in the first half of the season. You're seeing that a lot around the league, right? Especially with those, the more back-to-the-basket guys or the guys you can throw it in the post

that are having better chances against second units, whether it's Zach Randolph or whether it's Enis Cantor or Greg Monroe or whoever it may be, right? And now, Powell, in San Antonio. but the idea that these guys, especially with so many teams flying up and down the court and playing stretch fours, that these guys can lay waste to the backups. And so now you're just, there's a place for those kind of guys in the league still, but that's kind of become their role.

The Super Sixth Man isn't necessarily a perimeter guy anymore. It may be a big plotter who can go and just kill it like they used to when they're playing against second units every night. Yeah, it's a great point. And, you know, you're seeing it in Memphis where Zach Randolph's career, you know, that may extend his career by a few years. I mean, he's been a good soldier, but you know better than I do that he hates being on that second unit. He walks to be a starter. He craves, you know, proving that the Gasol Randolph front line can once again kind of ride high and win a championship out there. But, you know, Zach Randolph at 35 years old with a second unit, the way he plays his ground game, he could play to his 38, 39 years old.

if he plays it right. Same thing with Gassal now, who's 36. I mean, the second unit might be the best place for him because he can put up numbers like he had. I'm looking at his stat line, Chris, you know, 22 against Sacramento, 11 on 57% shooting against Minnesota. This is just this past week. He's putting up decent numbers on that second unit, and most importantly, the Spurs are getting some wins. All right, let me ask you one last thing. We talked, we touched a little bit on the draft. Obviously, we've got all these Sweet 16 games that are going to be going to be. going on this weekend. Is there any prospect that Chris Mannix loves? I mean, I do love Jason Tatum, and I was disappointed that Duke bowed out because I would have

liked to have seen him go a little bit deeper and see him play on a bigger stage against better competition. But I watched a lot of Tatum in the ACC tournament. He was the one guy that of the top five to ten prospects that, for whatever reason, I didn't get a good look at during the regular season. I saw a lot of Fultz, saw a lot of ball, I saw a lot of Josh Jackson, I like all three of those guys. But Jason Tatea and me in the ACC tournament, I swear, I'm watching him. And it feels like I'm seeing a mini Carmelo Anthony from back in his early days with the way he plays his game. I love the physicality, the way he scores, the mid-range type of game.

I think he has great potential to be an elite small forward and be an impact player very quickly in this league. So, you know, it's going to be interesting to see which one of the two swing men, whether it's Tatum or Jackson goes first after Fulton. I'll go there one, too. That, to me, is going to be real compelling. It'll be based a lot on the combine and how they test, and, of course, some of these individual workouts. Yeah, and you also wonder if one of them's going to, you could foresee if Lonzo Ball or

Josh Jackson just goes crazy over these next couple of weekends that everybody just totally falls in love with them, right? Because it's the whole. I'd be surprised, though, like, I mean, yeah, I mean, you, you know, Fultz to me is pretty entrenched at number one. I mean, I've had this conversation with so many NBA guys. They're all these college tournaments now. And I've asked him, like, repeatedly, like, is there anything Lonzo Ball can do to get number one?

And, you know, I mean, I would probably say five or six that I've talked to, most of which have been from lottery teams, they consistently say they think Fultz just because of his scoring ability is number one. But ball, I mean, look, these are can't miss types of guys. And I hate to say that because I always wind up, they always wind up biting me in the ass a little bit later on. but, you know, football, it's hard to see both these guys not panning out and turning into all-star-level players. I agree with you. He is Chris Mannix from the vertical. Chris, you're the best. Thanks, buddy.

Anytime, pal. Thanks for listening to another Ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, and we will talk to you tomorrow. March Madness is finally underway and there's no better place to bet on games than bet DSI. Their live in-game wagering lets you make plays throughout entire games at home or online. the go. You get a free $25 credit just for registering as well as a 200% bonus on your first deposits when you use the promo code NBA 25.