The Ringer NBA Show - Murray Gets Hot, Kawhi Stays Hot, Curry Not Looking So Hot | Heat Check

Episode Date: May 6, 2019

An impressive scoring outburst from Jamal Murray helps the Denver Nuggets edge out the Portland Trail Blazers (3:45) while yet another dominant performance from Kawhi Leonard lifts the Toronto Raptors over a struggling Joel Embiid and the Philadelphia 76ers (16:28). A bizarre end-of-game sequence of events, including a missed Stephen Curry dunk, ensures the Houston Rockets an overtime victory over the Golden State Warriors (30:28) while the Milwaukee Bucks take back home-court advantage from the Boston Celtics by revving up their offense (42:50). Host: John Gonzalez Guests: Tate Frazier, Danny Chau Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Before we get to today's heat check, I just want to remind everyone to join our Ringer NBA community on social media. If you're looking for a place to share your hot playoff takes with other like-minded folks, search Ringer NBA on Facebook. And if you're in need of a hub for all things hoops related, make sure to follow at Ringer NBA on Twitter. And now, Heat Check. You know that was coming. It's heat check time. Welcome to Heat Check. I'm your host, John Gonzalez, joined as I am every week by my producer, Isaac Lee.

Hey, hey. Isaac, interesting Sunday here in the NBA world. It began Wompwomp with the Sixers, which we will get to in short order. But I want to just bring up some of the pregame stuff that happened in Philadelphia. Our guy Tyler Tynes went to the game in Philadelphia. And were you aware of the Mike Scott tattoo that one of the Sixers fans got on his rib? Not until Tynes tweeted about it.

So he tweeted about something else. This guy who listens to the rights to Ricky Sanchez podcast, shots to our guys, said if you got to a certain amount of followers, he'd get a Mike Scott tattoo on his ribs. Ah, okay. And then, and I was unaware of this, too, until Times tweeted it out. Times was in the parking lot at the Sixers game and somehow ran into another Sixers fan. And I don't know how this conversation ensued, but it did.

And it led to this guy pulling down part of his pants to show that this tattoo had been, the same tattoo that a different fan had gotten on his ribs. He got on his ash cheek. That's what's happening in Philadelphia. Incredible stuff. And I want to say, to He-Chek listeners, we had previously talked about, Isaac doing something for a GoFundMe for a haircut. But Isaac has generously volunteered to get the Mike Scott ass tattoo.

No, no, no, no, no. What's the price for this, Isaac? The price for this? Oh, man. In the million somewhere, like 50 maybe to $100 million. So we're almost there. We're going to raise the cap. Almost there.

We're pretty close. We're pretty close. I thought everything was going Philly's way, Isaac, between the ass tattoo. And then also your guy Boban was holding a Chihuahua pregame for reasons to impressingly understanding? Extremely here for Bobon holding very small objects and or animals. Very small objects. Ian Carmel said that that was actually a full-size golden retriever.

Not a Chihuahua, but it was a good side gag. I would have believed it. It was a good site gag. Check out all that stuff. And I want to thank all of you guys for listening. Please rate and review us and all of our fantastic Ringer MBA shows and pause. We have lots of great content on the ringer.com. Robert Mays, a football writer.

Went to Milwaukee, wrote about basketball in the box. That was a good story. You should read it. Palo and Haley have been all over the winners and losers. from every single game in the playoffs. I wrote about a non-playoff story. Ty Lou is evidently taking the Lakers gig. And I hope you read my story,

but the short of it is, Tyloo, what are you doing? Yeah. Tough stuff, Tyloo. I guess it's a gig, man. Good luck in it. This makes me so happy. Later on in the show, Danny Chow hasn't been here in a while.

He's going to join us to talk about Bucks and Celtics. And also he'll talk about the Rockets, climbing back into the series against the Warriors. but first there was basketball today on Sunday. I mentioned Wampwomp, my Philadelphia 76ers, we're going to get into that, and also just wrapped up the Portland and Denver game for, so we're going to talk about that right away.

And for that, you know what, this is a fun day. It's been a fun day of basketball. Sunday, Sunday. Sunday, we needed somebody interesting. Somebody who hasn't appeared on heat check in a while. I'm excited. Let's bring him in. All right, joining me in the studio.

He's co-host of one shining podcast. He's one half of the duffel bag boys. I see him on the lot right before we do the show. I say, hey, Tate, what's going on with you? He goes, I just watched Waterworld. It's Tate Frazier. Yes, happy to be here. On heat check, I feel very official because it's actually NBA playoff time.

At this point, I don't think my opinions would matter in the world of NBA, but I'm happy to be here instead of cross-frey because now I feel validated. If John Gonzalez has asked me questions about the NBA, then I feel good about myself. I love that you were watching the NBA. I said to you, bring Titus along, and you said, nah, But you were watching NBA, but before you watched the NBA, you were actually watching Waterworld, which I don't know what I'm more blown away by, your love of the NBA or your affinity for a movie that even Kevin Kossner doesn't like. He loves that movie deep down, I think. Basically, I was scheduled to watch Waterworld at 9.30 in the morning with a couple of friends this morning.

This was like a play date that you put together on purpose. This is something that I was doing today at 930. So I started my day watching Waterworld. As soon as the two hour and 15 minute experience was ended, then I got to the point where I was going to watch basketball, turned it on. and then of course, Raptor Sixers. Great game back and forth. Sir Jimbac scored more points than Joel and beat. I don't even know how to...

That's even more confounding than Waterworld. We're going to maybe skip that one. We'll start with the one that just wrapped that you and Isaac and I watch together. Nuggets and Blazers. $22 million, Kevin Koster spent on Waterworld books. Just remember that. Just remember that. Of his own money.

I think it was well spent. Nuggets and Blazers, the Nuggets tie up the series 2-2. Basically on the Jamal Murray game. Jamal Murray played out of his brain. 34 points in this game, 50% from the floor on 20 shots, made all 11 of his free throws, including several down the stretch when they were fouling and trying to get him to miss one. And there was a situation with C.J. McCollum where he took, well, look like a three in the corner that could have changed it as the seconds wound down.

It was called a three initially, and instead Scott Foster, Scott Foster, who's like the only ref that anybody in the NBA, who likes the NBA knows by name. He changes the call to a two. That changes things. And now the nuggets are tied to, too. it's crazy. And I know that, you know, it's been the Dame Lillard

playoffs. We keep talking about Dame Lillard doing everything. And in this game, we have to give our dude to Jamal Murray because down the stretch, I mean, he just steps up to the free throw line and makes every single free throw

in a moment where even the last, I think it ended up being 116, 112, the last time that Rodney Hood fouled him going down, you could tell Ronnie Hood gave him a little extra shove. Yeah. Just to maybe getting his head, he's like, look, you've made 10 out of 10

from the free throw line. Rodney hood tackled him. Yeah, he's like, maybe if I hit him hard, I'll get in his head and he can miss one of these free throws, but instead cold-blooded goes up in Portland, mixed the free throws. And I think that says a lot about Jamal Murray.

Jamal Murray, these playoffs has been... Hot and cold. Hit or miss, hot and cold, good or bad. This was the best possible version that we could get of Jamal Murray in a game that was critical for Denver, because as Kevin Pelton pointed out, Kevin Pelton from ESPN, things really changed, the odds super change in these games.

If the higher seed ties it up in game for at 2-2, they go on to win the series almost 80% of the time, 79% of the time. If the higher seat falls behind 3-1, they win just 11% of the series. So this was a critical game for Denver, a critical game for Portland. And I thought it looked to me like for much of the second half, this was going to be a Blazers win. And then all of a sudden, as I said, Jamal Murray just goes lights out. And there were moments in the playoffs where he has disappeared. And then there are moments when he just looked like an absolute killer.

and this was the killer moment. And it was the killer mover from the free throw line. And I think that'll probably get lost in the shuffle because it's not pulling up and hitting a three in someone's face. But the guy that was doing that, Will Barton. I have to give Will Barton is doing. Will Barton hit two big threes. I'm a Will Barton stand.

I've always liked him. But to your point about free throws, Jamal Gamari goes and makes 11 of 11. Dame Lillard, who's usually like ice cold from the line, one of the best free throw shooters. Actually, ice cold this time, yeah. Yeah. Cold-blooded is what I meant.

One of the best free throw shooters in all of the NBA. Yeah. missed a couple of crucial free throws in the fourth quarter. So, I mean, this could have gone the other way, if not for a couple of breaks. You know, the three ball that ends up as a two. Dame missing a couple shots.

Denver steals one, and now all of a sudden they've got home court again. And it got to the point where we got the, it's almost been overused at this point. The refs you suck, the chant that Blake Griffin. So, you know, beautifully did early in the playoffs. And now Portland does that. And I think Dame has been so good in the third quarter. Tonight was in his night in the third quarter.

And I think one of the biggest moments in the game when I saw it sort of flip for the nuggets was Dame goes down and he tries to get a quarter. call makes a layup. He's yelling at Scott Foster about not getting the call. Yokech goes down. Yokage gets the call right after that. Terry Stotz is all upset. He's about to get a technical. He gets held back by C.J. McCollum. And as soon as that's happening, Zach Collins is now standing at the line. And who would have thought that Zach Collins would be the one to get a technical foul in this game? But he decides to let it be known how he feels about the foul call. And then he gets teed up.

And then from there, it's downhill. Yeah, started rolling for the nuggets. You know, Zach Collins, maybe a bad spot for you to get teed up there, guy. Nobody on the Blazers wanted to get teed up there, but for the young guy to do that in a spot where they can't be giving away points and opportunities, not the best look for Zach Collins. It's a real shame. I wanted this, like, after the quadruple overtime game, I was really feeling Sixers, Blazers, both going up 3-1, because as listeners of Heat Check, no, I obviously spent a good time of my career and my life watching the Sixers, but Portland is like my adopted West Coast

team. You love the city. You were like, I would like to go to Portland for the finals. I love the city. I love the aesthetic. I love the team. like the whole bed. It's a great place to raise a family.

Like if you want a nice, like, family, life, suburbia, run around with your kids, have a dog. Oh. How do you have this knowledge? You don't have any kids. You don't have any kids, do you? No. That we know about it. Let's hope anyone, if anyone on the airways knows anything, please don't let me know for right now.

But yeah, Portland's just, I've been, I went up there a couple times in the fall. I got a couple friends I work in Nike. I just, you know, Portland's a beautiful place. And while you were up there, you found out it was a great place to raise children. There were so many, like, people running around with their dogs, like in shape. You glean this on your. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're in their Nike stuff. And now Adidas is up there.

And I think it's a whole little moment for Portland. So I'm behind it as well. I'm enjoying Portland. I thought it was a moment for Portland, too. They had a moment in the first round. They were having a moment after this quad overtime victory the other night that was just a banana's game. Seth Curry had a moment in this game. Seth Curry had a moment.

Actually, so Seth Curry had 16 points the first time he's ever scored in double figures in the playoffs. He also made more three-pointers in the second quarter alone than his brother made in the whole of game three. So Seth Curry, you get bragging rights at dinner, but unfortunately for the Trailblazer still doesn't work out. And this was a game where, again, Jamal Murray was killer. Paul Millsap had a really good game. He had 21 points and 10 rebounds. Yokich was Yokch. There was a moment. Yolkich had a triple double. There was a moment late in the game where it looked like he was going to take a shot and he's steady through this beautiful no look past to Gary Harris, who was cutting to the basket and ended up with an hand one. So Yolkich was Yoguch. Yolk, by the way,

he deserves a little rest. He played 65 minutes in the quad overtime game. he played 39 minutes in this game. He's got to be tired as hell. And you mentioned that past to Gary Harris. That was a moment when it looked like he tweaked his knee. Like he came up limping right after that went right to the bench. And there was a, I guess if you were in the building, you were a little bit scared for Yokic, especially because I'll say this, going into the series, all I want.

And I know we can't have it because he's hurt. But I wanted Nurkich versus Yokic. Who is going to be the itch that, you know, that dominates and owns this, especially with the past, you know, being traded and all that sort of stuff. But we're missing out of that. So to see Yokic almost get injured, I was holding my. heart at that point because we'd never want to see that. Again, that was such a big play. And I mean, I know he's not the MVP, but he needs to be in the discussion as far as, like,

so far in the playoffs, Yokic, where he's been able to do another triple double in this game, right? So him being able to pass the ball out of the pain, kick it out to guys like Gary Harris, Will Barton, get those open threes, Tori Craig. Malik Beasley is probably one of my favorite players in the NBA. There's so many guards they have coming off the bench for Denver and Yokish finds him. And, you know, it's a nice little thing. They have had one of the deeper benches in the NBA all season. They've honored Morrison Beasley this season. It's been great for them.

And Yokic, as you mentioned, has been a killer all playoffs. I would say the two best players in the playoffs across the board have been Katie and Kauai and right behind them. If they're number one with a bullet, then Yokic is 1A. Like he's been so, so good and so fun to watch. I just didn't think that that would be enough in this game. It still felt like it was going to end up being Portland's game, especially because lost in all this was C.J. McCollum, just like Jamal.

just like Jamal Murray goes 10 for 20 from the floor. He made four of eight from three, made all but one of his free throws, had another really great game from C.J. McCollum. And again, if that three ball is a three ball instead of a two, now of a sudden the fouling situation gets different. Now of a sudden maybe Portland pulls it off. They go up three one maybe.

And instead it's two, two. And it's so difficult, as we mentioned, with the Kevin Peltin stat, for the lower seed to come back from two, too. It generally doesn't go their way. And it's for Denver to be able to get home. quarterback. Obviously, that's a big thing for them.

You talk about the confidence being that two-seat. I feel like, I mean, and I'm not around the NBA talk as much as you are. You're in this whole world. But from the outside looking in, I hear more people talk about, it seems like Denver has to prove that they're the two-seed to everyone, that they belong to be the two-seed. And everyone has sort of coordinated Portland at one point, you know what I mean, after they knock out OKC. And now this is a nice game, I think, to say, wait a second, Denver is the number two seed in

the West for a reason. And, you know, now they're going back home. For a reason. And, like, I have been, as listeners to heat-checked, no, skeptical of Denver. I've liked watching them all season. I've enjoyed the Nicoliochich experience. I'm a big Will Barton guy,

although he hasn't looked as good coming back from his injury. Jamal Murray obviously has had a breakout sort of season. And yet, my thing with them was I thought it was going to be difficult for them in the playoffs, depending on the matchup. Spurs took him to seven games. And then now all of a sudden they're sort of locked in this pitched battle with the Blazers because after Yokach, I wanted to see who's going to be their guy? because obviously they're going to key on Yokic.

Yokic is going to do his Yokish thing, but somebody else needs to step up. We've gotten the answer. It's Jamal Murray. He has been, when he's been off, yes, he's had some bad games. There's no doubt about it. But when he's been on, he's been a killer. And this game four was the best he's been, maybe ever. This was a seminal game for him.

Where were you on him coming out of college? What did you think he would be? Because I wasn't sold on him. And it was a weird thing with him coming out, because I kind of compared him to Devin Booker in the sense where he's not a point card per se, but he's going to bring the ball up. He's going to take a lot of shots. He's going to have an offense that's going to be dedicated to him.

Are we sure that Jamal, you know, the classic, are we sure Jamal Murray is going to be able to carry that load and be that guy? But I think he has the perfect situation with the Yokage type, who is going to be the number one option. So now I think the worst shot he took in that game was late in the game when he drives all the way through and he takes that little turnaround and end up being an airball. And that's sort of the Jamal Murray that you worry about because you're like, he is sort of a playground kind of style guy where he's like,

I have to take this shot and I'm going to jump up in the air and conunders. toured and do whatever I need to do to make it happen. And it was a bad idea. It was a bad idea. You know, and sometimes that confidence, yeah, that can come with some problems. But I think in this game, and I think Malone's been great with him getting on him. You know, when he has played bad, Malone's like, I told Jamal he played bad. He knows he played bad.

He's going to bounce back. And I think what you take away from a lot of stuff watching a play is that he has confidence, he can bounce back. And I like that in a superstar because obviously we have our good days, our bad days. And Jamal Murray, this was a great day for him. Like you said, Seminole moment. I think this is the best I've ever seen him play. as far as, like, it means a lot, it matters,

and he steps up to the free-thil line, and he makes these shots and moves on. He's way, way better now than I ever anticipated he would be, and remember there was a time when, like, he was sort of, as you said, sort of a combo guard, they weren't sure to do with him. Like, maybe he would be better as a shooting guard or whatever. Having him as the point guard with this team with Yokic,

it's unlocked something. I mean, when he's on, he's been really good. Before we move on reluctantly to the next series, I don't want to do it to you. It's 2-2 right now with Nuggets and Blazers. Who do you think's going to win the series? I think I'm still going to stick with, as much as I was impressed with the Nuggets, this is a nice road win.

I like to see guys like, like you said, Will Barton step up and make some big shots. I do think that the Trailblazers, I like continuity, and I think that they have a team, that they understand each other. They know what they're looking for in the moments, and I think that they have the ultimate killer left in the playoffs as far as I want to take that shot and I want to knock you out, and we know who that is. That's Dame Lillard. I think it's going to go seven games, though.

Need more Dame time. Yeah, we need more Dame time, and I think we're going to get that in the series. And I think Portland is almost better sometimes when they're backs against the wall. So I would take Portland in seven. I would love for to go seven because I like basketball and this has been really fun. This series has been really fun. Let's go seven games. And I would also like to see Portland win, so we'll go with that.

Don't you think the four overtime game just endeared themselves to America? Yes. It's so much fun. And in this series, you know, everyone's talking about every other series, all the major storylines of bigger players, but this has been probably one of the best series in the second round. Let's keep it going. A series that I'm less enthusiastic about that I was previously very enthusiastic about

the Raptors and the Sixers. I really believe, see, this is my problem. As a Philadelphia, and just when you start, like, you're conditioned as you're growing up to not believe in things. Yes. Right? Like, just don't believe. It's way easier that way. Hate, expect the worst.

Like, that's kind of our comfort zone, misery. And then you start to believe and shit goes sideways. Kauai Leonard is an absolute killer. They started off super slow. They weren't shooting well. And they were only down two at the half. And I'm like, this doesn't make any sense. The 76ers are going to win this game.

And instead, they do not for a number of different reasons, not the same. the least of which is Kauai Leonard, who ends up helping the Raptors tie the series at 2-2. Kauai goes for 39 points. I mean, he was just unbelievable. Like, he's impossible to stop. He had 14 rebounds and five assists, and he played amazing defense. And once again, if not for Kauai, this series is all sixers all the time. He's been incredible.

Yeah, and you talked about it, it basically is the Kauai Leonard show. And I think in this game, I like what Nick Nurse said, where he has basically decided, I don't need to find a backup point guard because Kauai Leonard is. is our backup point guard. Kaui Lernard is going to play at the two for us. We're going to go big. I like that they went big and put Gassal with the Baca. I saw that a little bit during the season,

but not as much as I thought after the trade, you know, with those two guys. And Gassal was great in this game. He had 16 points. He was sort of getting things rolling a little bit. That little pick and pop with him has been nice and it's kind of kept in beat at a certain level, you know, having to pull him out a little bit,

which I think, you know, says a lot. And then you talk about Kauai Leonard being the difference. I mean, it's as simple as he has the ball at the top of the key. There's really nothing going on. Ben Simmons is having to fight over a screen and Bede's coming out and he hits that three to get a four point lead with 101 left on the clock in the fourth quarter and cold-blooded Kauai answers the bell and that's pretty much what it is. I mean, for the Raptors. It's unbelievable because, like, Seacom obviously wasn't right. He didn't make his first field goal until less than five minutes left in the third quarter. But he was great on JJ. Like, he was chasing JJ all over the place. And as much as, you know, we can talk about JJ and how what he may do when he's limited and he's not making shots, he's so important to helping, you know, obviously stretch out that sickers off. And so if you're a guy like Siakam, who's athletic, falling and running around, just tires him out.

And almost didn't go. Almost didn't go because he was doubtful with a calf contusion. Like Sixers' conspiracy Twitter was convinced that he got to hurt, tripping and bead in game three. And he wasn't moving well. He started out at 0 for eight offensively. See, that's why I love Philadelphia. It's incredible. Because you guys always across the board, I mean, and I talk about coming from the Eagles fans.

Yeah. There's another layer to everything, which I really appreciate. Never take everything as it is. You know what I mean? The universe is always conspiring against Philadelphia, as we know. But again, Kauai sort of like even without Siakamu, who's been his running made in this series, sort of puts them on his back. Yes, Gassal played better.

Yes, Kyle Lowry played better. They had a pretty good game from Abaka off the bench. About the bench thing, like all season long, I have been lauding the Raptors for being super deep. And at some point along the way in the playoffs, the Raptors bench went to shit. They've got nobody on their bench. They got 32 minutes out of Serge Abaka on their bench. He was the only person off the bench to score. 12 points from him and that was it

and still the Raptors end up beating the Sixers which makes my head hurt It's kind of interesting to me because Van Vleet's been playing Right and I think that they're deciding that Van Vleet's probably not going to be right for this series So now Pat McCall is playing if you don't Pat McCall got minutes Exactly Pat McCall got like five minutes or so in this game Yeah he got five minutes and they're like nod lineup

And I like Norm Powell too so it's like I could see Norm Powell getting more PT in the series But I think it's pretty much what it is like you said It's a one-man band at this point It is Swiss Beets and Kauai Leonard. It is what it is. You know what I mean? You're saying this is the best player on our team.

We know that we're going to run through him. He plays 43 minutes in this game. This is our team. And it works when Embedit is battling these weird sicknesses, I guess. It's the word that's coming out. Because game three, that was probably the most dominant performance. It was a killer. In the playoffs.

Embed looked incredible in that game. And in game four, he almost didn't go. So as it turns out, Embed did not have a good game in game for 11 points. only made two of seven field goals. He just looked off all day. And later on, Brett Brown said he got a text from Embed at like 620 in the morning and said, I don't feel good. I haven't slept all night.

I might not play. Now, he ended up playing, and Brett Brown was excited that he did play. And he apparently got an IV, right, in the morning. So that was one other report I saw that he actually had someone come give him an IV that early in the morning. Yeah, but see, here's the other thing. Like when Ambid is off, obviously it's going to throw everything off from the Sixers. But there is moments with Embed, and we saw this in the playoffs last year, and I was hoping that he had graduated past it this season, especially because, as you mentioned, he played so well in game three.

But in this game four, down the stretch, we saw that Embed where in critical moments in the fourth quarter, he makes bad decisions and either like fumbles it out of bounds, turns it over, misses a shot. Like crunch time critical Mbid in these crucial playoff games is still not the Mbid I need him to be. And maybe that's a product of he's sick again or he's just not right physically with. with his knee or his back. There's a dunk earlier in the game where he landed and he grimaced. But when he's like not taking over these games, he's almost, not almost, he's hurting them in some situations.

He didn't help in this game. I was going to say, Embedd is, I love watching Joelle Mb played basketball. Yeah. That is 100%. And when we see something in game three and you see that big dunk that he threw down. And then he's going to the crowd and he's telling the crowd to raise up. You're like, this is the Joel Embed that we want. This is the leader of the six years.

And you got AI sitting on the sideline with Michael Roo. Rubin. There are like, you know, meek Mill, everyone's high-fiving each other. It's all happening. It's a crazy in-game experience. It's just like a beautiful thing when it's at that moment. You're like, oh, this is Philadelphia. This is what the process was for. And you get that game three hype and you get Embed at that height. And then the other side of that, I mean, it's such a pendulum. The highs and lows. Yes. I was there. Which is frustrating because I think Embed is the best. I mean, he could be the best player in the playoffs talent-wise because we talked about Kauai KD. Embedd could be in that class. It could be those three guys as far as supreme talent.

When he's on, he's amazing. And when he's off, like, in game four, it's less amazing. Jimmy Butler was really the story for the second. I mean, JJ had a really nice game for JJ. I had four threes. But pretty much, like Ben Simmons, once again, offensively sort of disappeared. They've moved to him sort of out of the point guard duties

and into you're going to be a screen and roll man. You're going to be in the dunker spot on the baseline. You're going to help with floor spacing. But mostly in this series, he's been deployed as a primary stopper, and I'm using that in quotes because nobody's stopped Kauai, but he's been their main guy defensively. Like, you're going to draw the most difficult defensive assignment.

Fine. Jimmy Butler has really reemerged in this series. Like, I was sort of lukewarm on the idea of them retaining Jimmy Butler. And now all of a sudden I'm back to going, shit. I think you've got to give him the max. He was really good. 29 points, 11 rebounds. If not for him in this game,

I wonder how bad that score looks because he came to play and the rest of the team was sort of hit or mess. And that's sort of Jimmy's whole thing is that Jimmy's always going to come to play. He hit that big bank shot where he just like turns around and throws it up and it goes... And that is what Jimmy Butler has always been.

He's been a bulldog. I remember he told the story when he got traded to the Sixers. He's like, AI used to always tell me that I should be in Philadelphia just the way mentally I made up where I can shrug off whatever sort of criticism is coming

and usually it's coming from a place of love as we know from Philadelphia fans. And then you can shrug that off and then move on and keep things going. And I think that is why he's been fine in these playoffs has been the up and downs because Jimmy understands that and has been there. And I think he has that mentality where he's kind of just a bulldog. It is what it is. And he's been able to score. But every single time Jimmy Butler is like when he has his 35 point

game, it usually means the Sixers loss because he's having to do too much. He's not supposed to be the primary guy. And when Embed is not there, you know, offensively to be able to score and shoulder that burden at some level. And Ben is like you said, doing the thing with Kauai where he's doing everything on defense and expending so much energy on defense or trying to. That sets them in a situation where where Serge Abaka is guarding Tobias Harris and Tobias Harris is going seven for 23. So let's talk about this for a second because

so you've got Jimmy Butler who played well. You've got JJ Radick who played well. Embed and Simmons did not play well and they're going to take a lot of the heat for this. But Tobias Harris is on this team where they traded a shit ton to get Tobias Harris. They expect to retain him and sign him because he fits in with their timeline and he feels like a good complimentary piece for them. Tobias Harris in a game where they absolutely needed to win

because we mentioned the Kevin Peltin stats, how this is sort of a critical game for both teams, especially the underdog seed. Now all of a sudden Toronto's got home quarter bandage back and the Sixers have to figure out a way to win one game up in Toronto and then also win game six in Philadelphia, which is going to be difficult. Tobias Harris took 23 shots in this game.

He made seven. He took 13 three pointers. 13. He made two. Let's bring in resident Tobias Harris expert, Isaac Lee. Isaac Lee, what say you, your guy Tobias Harris.

I've been saying this all season. Tobias Harris will play well for you right up until it actually counts and then he'll disappear. This is what he does. He is so passive to a point where if there's any stakes then he will fail. It's just how he's been. He wasn't passive today. He was taking the shots.

He just wasn't making them. I mean, they went out and they bolstered this lineup, right? And supposedly they have the best lineup east of San Francisco, best starting five. That's what we've heard so many times. But if Embed and Simmons aren't going to be there for you, you're getting something out of Butler, you're getting something out of Reddick,

you absolutely have to get something more out of Tobias Harris. He just, he doesn't have it. He doesn't have it. He does not have it in him to step up in big moments and actually make big plays. You can't let Serge Abaka come off the bench and shut you down. You know what I mean? That's pretty much where we're at. I always go to Isaac on Tobias Harris.

You wind him in, you wind him up, you put the quarter, and off he goes. It really triggers him for some reason. I enjoy it. I enjoy that you can throw that. I enjoy that there's someone that. deems himself a Tobias Harris expert. I think that's actually good news for Tobias Harris. As much as he may not be able to step up in these big moments,

at least he has an expert. People are talking about him enough for that. I mean, Stockholm syndrome more than anything else. So we talked about this at the top of the show, but Isaac has graciously agreed to get a Mike Scott hive tattoo on his cheek. So maybe on his other cheek he gets the Tobias Harris hive. Oh, there you go. We'll see how it goes.

Matching tattoos. Nope. You need to wear the headband. With the headband, it's on the tattoo. Okay, there is happening. Yeah, Ninja Turtle mode. It's going to look good. We'll make sure we put that on the ringer Instagram

when it happens when Isaac gets up. You have a lot of things to do. We're going to bring in Danny Chow in a second. I want the 76ers to pull off the series for all my friends and family. Yes. I thought it was going to happen. As I said, I was starting to believe.

No, I'm back to not believing. I had the Raptors in six games before the series starts. I think it might go seven, but I'm not feeling good about the Sixers' upset chances here. You figure it out for me. Who's going to win? I will say this. I believed going into both these six.

series, and I thought that there was a chance that Kauai Leonard could be, I guess, great enough to ascend a certain level to be able to beat the Sixers. But the Sixers are a better team, I think. And I believe in a seven-game series, the Sixers should win. But I think that they weren't a better team during the regular season. Exactly, exactly. But I'm talking about like playoff time, I thought that, you know, Ben's going to be playing better defense. He's going to buy all the way. There's so many ways. Offensively, he's a zero right now. It's the problem with, I don't know what Joel and Beat, I'm going to get in day-to-day. Or if you're going to get them at all. Yeah, the consistency is a,

a factor that plays in all this. And I keep talking myself in circles here with both these series, really, even though I feel better about picking the Blazers. I think Kauai Leonard is a man on a mission in some weird world where he believes that he is the best player in the world, and he is not getting his due for that.

And I think that he is singularly going to be able to take the Raptors to the next round. He has right now. So far, everything that they've achieved in this series has been because of Kauai Lennard. There's been some Pascal Seacum, no doubt about it. Not in game four, but in the first three games, he was really good.

But mostly it's just Kauai's got this. And until the Sixers figure out a way to not stop him but slow him even a little bit, I think it's going to be difficult. And it's one of those things too where it's like if Danny Green has a game where he just happens to start hitting these open threes that he's getting. And it starts to fall. Then, you know, it's just one of those nights where you just kind of get knocked out by the percentages. And I can see that happening. I just really want the real Joelle Embed to be here, to stay here.

Give us the full MB. Come on. We need it. Get us the full MBED. Make sure you listen to him. He's one half of the One Shining podcast. You're going to be doing football stuff. Football will be back eventually.

Football will be back. I do against all odds with Cousin'Sau. And then I'm just the rent. We're both living on the west side of Los Angeles. So we're going to figure, you know, we're just going to hang out on our side. We're going to hang out on the west side. We're going to hang out on the west side. Tate Frazier, you're the best.

Thanks for doing this. Appreciate you. All right, we thank Tate Frazier before we bring in Danny Chow, a quick word from our sponsors. Today's episode of Heech is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Hiring used to be hard, multiple job sites, stacks of resumes a confusing review process, but today hiring can be easy and you only have to go to one place to get it done. It's ziprecruiter.com slash ringer NBA. ZipRecruiter sends your job to over 100 of the web's leading job boards, but they don't stop there. With their powerful matching technology,

ZipRecruiter scounds thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invites them to apply for your job. As applications come in, ZipRecruiter analyzes each one in spotlights the top candidates so you never miss a great match. ZipRecruiter is effective that four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quad a candidate through the site within the first day. And right now our listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address. It's ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer NBA. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash R-I-N-G-E-R-N-B-A. ZipRecruiter.com slash Ringer NBA, ZipRecruiter, it's the smartest way to hire. And now back to He Check.

All right, joining me in the studio. He's an editor. He's a writer, extraordinaire. one third of the corner three, you hear him on House of Carves, he's everywhere at Stanley Chow. Hello. It's been a while. It has been a while. I'm glad to have you back. There were many things that I wanted to discuss with you. First, we'll start with Rockets Warriors.

Rockets get back into the series at two, one, overtime win in game three. Not a good look for Steph Curry. Steph Curry at the back end of the game, like completely decomposed. I don't think there's anything left. It was like an end game or no, I guess it would be Infinity War where like all of a sudden he just

disappeared on everybody. You could honestly make any Marvel reference, and I would just be like, yeah. Yeah, no, that sounds right. Are you not a Marvel person? Just the ringer brass know about this? I don't watch Game of Thrones either. Holy shit, how do you work here? This is incredible.

I've kind of skated by for the past six years working on those same people. It's amazing. Do other people know about this, or are we breaking news on He-check? No, they all know about this. All right, so no MCU, no Game of Thrones. This is all of a sudden not a basketball podcast. Have you seen a star as born? No.

Oh, my God. God. I've heard the song. I can probably sing the entire song, but like I don't... This is incredible. I'm blown away. You are a ringer unicorn. I've gotten that a lot. Shots out to Sean Fantasy. For a lot of reasons, you're a ringer unicorn, but I think if we pulled every single person at the ringer, I don't think anybody else would be O for three in those categories. You're just shaking your head at me. I'm here. This is incredible. Incredible heat check on heat check by Danny Chale.

Steph Curry, who absolutely disappeared. He misses a layup in overtime. Hardin hits a step back three. And then Steph had a wide open. look at the rim, drove the lane, and this has happened to him before, where he has fucked up dunks. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, the first one I felt was more memeable, where he was, like, literally trying to go up for it, and he just slipped so hard and just skidded out of bounds. I think this was, like, a regular season game a few months ago.

Yeah, this one, he just got rejected by the rim. I mean, it wasn't good. It wasn't good for him. It wasn't good for the Warriors. I thought the Warriors were going to end up winning that game and go up 3-0. Instead, the Rockets climbed back into it. The series has been kind of weird because it felt like the Rockets could have stolen in game one. I didn't feel like that

in game two. Harden went out with the eye laceration or injury or whatever you want to call it where he had to go back and get the old eye drops out. And CP sort of vanished in multiple games. Like in game three CP had what? 14 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists. You look at his line and you go

that's not terrible. It's pretty good. It's a Kyle Lowry line. It's kind of a C. It's kind of a CP line. And yet, I didn't feel like he was influential in any of these games. Well, the final four minutes I was watching him specifically I'm just like, wow, this guy is completely out of the loop, out of, like, out of his comfort zone. He was passing up on strange plays.

He was driving into traffic expecting, he was being guarded by Clay, who's guarded him very, very well, the entire series. Yeah. And somehow expected things to go way different in the final seconds of the game where refs are not going to be calling fouls. That final regulation play was just like, why did you not give this to Hardin? What is going on here? Yeah, I mean, there was a number of moments in game three that I was sort of, curious about, but the Rockets win, and I'm still not entirely sure where they fit in this series. Like, initially I thought, oh, yeah, they're in this series. This is good. And then I thought,

not that in Game 2. And now in Game 3, after game 3, I'm just sort of shoulder shrugging my way through this. How do you feel about the Rockets? What did they do better in Game 3? Do you think that they're back in the series now? I think the biggest key for them in Game 3 was just how dominant they were on the rebounding totals. They were just atrocious in the first two games. Crushed the Warriors on the glass by 20. By 20. And then half of that, 10 of those rebounds were offensive rebounds that they had. They had 10 more offensive rebounds than the Warriors did.

And that was just the big key right there. Capello has been bad. He has been bad. Although they got 35 minutes out of him in game three. He had another double double, which I mentioned after game two and Haley blew it off. She said it doesn't count for big guys. But, but, and this is a low bar. Game three was his best game.

Right. And basically what you need from him is extending those possessions. He had five offensive rebounds. When he was on the court, he got enough buckets to remain viable. But you still look at his plus minus and now he's like minus like 40 something, 60 on the series. It's like not good. He still has the worst plus minus of anyone on that team. But if he can extend these possessions, if he could get these tapouts, secure offensive rebounds, defensive rebounds, and give the rockets enough opportunity. to let harden Chris Paul, Austin Rivers. I can't believe I'm listing Austin Rivers as one of these guys, but he's been amazing in this series. 1,000%, man. We've talked about it multiple times on He-check. We talked about it on the emergency post-game Warriors, Rockets Pod that we had with Haley the other night,

where they need Austin Rivers. I mean, and I think that this is universal for playoff teams at this point, where the rotation is shortened to the point where you can only play a certain number of players. And you look at what the Rockets have on that bench, Guys who saw action in game three, Neney got nine minutes. Amazing nine minutes, by the way. Incredible nine minutes.

The best nine minutes he's played in a while. Green had seven minutes. Shumpert, they had to run Shumperd out there. You want to talk about somebody who hasn't been good and that you don't want to play. Shumper has been terrible. And then suddenly he hit like three threes. He did. He hit three threes, which back from the dead.

But Austin Rivers has plainly been their best bench player. Yeah. There is a great stat out there. So when he's on the floor in the series, 52 minutes on the floor, the Rockets are outscoring the Warriors by 18.5 points per 100 possessions. It's an 18.5 net rating. When he's off the floor,

they're getting outscored by 13.1 per 100. That's like a, what, I can't do math, like a 30 plus point swing per 100 possessions. That's why we have you on, so I don't have to do math, so that's good. But after game one, with Rivers being out, we talked about this, and I thought, I can't believe we're actually saying this,

but they really missed him in game. game one. And having him back matters because to the same reason why they've got to squeeze minutes out of Capella, you don't have other options. I mean, somebody has to play. You can't go with just your five starters and then that's it. So you've got Austin Rivers coming off the bench and he's been great. Isaac, I want to bring you in here. As somebody who has watched and really loves Austin Rivers, he's been your favorite player for a lot while. As we said on Hecheck, you have the Austin Rivers. Footy pajamas, you've got the fat head over your bed. What do you think about the Austin Rivers resurrection? I think,

It's a fraud. I think that people should be very wary of trusting in him and piling on the praise that people have been giving him. He's just a warm body who's out there. He's a professional basketball player who is out there and is a present on the court and that's about it. You need the warm body though right now. You really know. Absolutely need the warm body. For putting out Shumpert out there, yeah, Austin Rivers will be better and or about the equivalent of Imman Schumper. 28 minutes out of Austin Rivers. He was there. Like we said, they squeezed some time out of Capella. I want to talk about your guy, though. Another reason. why I brought you on. PJ Tucker. Yeah. Like his defense has been fantastic. He's all over the boards.

End of game three, they put him on KD. In the final 15 minutes with Tucker as the primary defender, KD, who has been lights out all playoffs. I would say it's him and Kauai for the best players in the playoffs by a wide margin. KD goes two for seven from the field in the final 15 minutes with Tucker as the primary defender. You guys are very close. You have sleepovers, you broken bread together. I haven't made him breakfast. but we almost did.

Fantastic. I imagine he texted you right afterwards to tell you how he felt after the game. What do you make of your guy, PJ? He has obviously been kind of the pivot point

of this series. His performance in game three was just nothing short of phenomenal on really both ends of floor. He made like a soft touch like floater hook shot in the game and I was just like, oh, okay, yeah,

the Rockets are winning this if he's going to be making these shots. Yeah, there are moments when he falls apart offensively. like it disappears, that game one wasn't a good one for him. But defensively, he gives you, and effort-wise and on the glass,

he's switchable on defense. The one thing with him, especially on KD, is that KD has kind of had a history throughout his career of underperforming against these certain types of defenders, like Tony Allen or on our test,

guys who are just really strongly built, have low leverage, you know, low centers of gravity, who can kind of get underneath KD without, and having the long, arms to kind of contest him up top, but really being able to control him from the base level down and directing where he can get to on the floor. I think PJ Hooker is like an ideal player

that you can kind of put on to KD in certain situations. I think Hardin's done actually a fine job as a similar type of player on defense. You're not going to stop KD. And so the only thing you can really do is just like, you know, yeah. Frustrate him. Yeah. Frustrating him is good. He's done that certainly. I've always liked PJ Tucker. I like him a lot because you did a fun piece with him where you guys ate food and talked about basketball and it was great. Also, he's an excellent game day dresser. Like, just a killer outfit guy. Like always comes up with something good. It's not like, you know, like with Westbrook, he's known for fashion, but there are frequently misfires in his game where he like tries to pull off something crazy that nobody would do. P.J. Tucker always kills it. Savant. Excellent. All right. For the Warriors. Steph has not scored over 20 points yet in this series. KD. is large. Carrey's in pretty much every game in the playoffs, are you at all worried about Steph Curry? Absolutely.

I mean, he's shooting 25% from three. Yes, it's not good. It's serious. It's awful. It probably has something to do with the nagging ankle, the nagging finger injuries. The thing about Steph is when he is fully healthy, there is nothing you can really do to stop him

because he has just the utmost confidence. But he's the type of star who loses his edge with those knick-knack injuries because he's such a when he shoots, it's his entire body that's kind of working in tandem in unison to get his shot up. And so little, like, kinks in the machinery kind of throw off his flow, throw off his rhythm.

And that's kind of the story we've seen over the past, you know, four years. When Steph has bad playoff games, they're really, really bad. It was incredibly bad. After game three, hilarious, he goes, it wasn't my night. Yeah, no shit.

In addition to having the rim block you, he went seven for 23 from the floor. only made two of his nine-threes. As you mentioned, he's shooting 25% from three. I just expect him to get hot at some point. Yeah. He'll go supernova and I'll go, of course, it's Seth Curry. But at the moment, if not for KD,

I think the series is two-won the other way, easily. Right. And look, if the Rockets had Austin Rivers in game one, like Austin Rivers the difference maker, who knows where this series is? I'm most concerned about where this goes in game four in terms of, look, the Rockets had a very interesting lineup that they put out. It was basically their five smalls. Right. It was Chris Paul, James Hardin, Austin Rivers, Eric Gordon, PJ, P.J. Tucker.

No one taller than 6-6. Which is interesting. Who the hell is the power forward there? I don't know. I think it's Austin Rivers. Who's anything? I don't know. If they can capitalize on those minutes and they have, like that's basically their death lineup.

You have four guys who can adequately, if not very profoundly, create for themselves off the dribble. And then you have one just like utilitarian defender. That's the best way that they're going to like get as. many points as possible on the Warriors, but you just can't use that lineup for that long. All right, before we go to the next series here that I want to talk to you about, make a prediction here. Are the Rockets back in it? What chance do you give them of not just making this a series, but winning this series? How about a 35% chance? That's better than I would give them. Yeah. I would give them maybe one and four. I still

think it's the Warriors. Again, if you get anything more than what you've already gotten out of stuff, then I think all of a sudden this becomes considerably more difficult for them. I mean, the Splash Brothers shot, like, Steph shot 30%, I think Clay shot like 37% in game three. That's not happening again. You're not getting those two having like that kind of off shooting night in consecutive games. Yeah, that's, I feel that way too. And like, and with Durant carrying them right now, like if all of a sudden one of those guys gets to even average, then it becomes a way tougher slide for Houston. But I would like them to get back in because I like basketball.

All right, the other series that we want to talk about here to the Eastern Conference, Bucks and Celtics, Bucks go up 2-1. Game three was very interesting. I feel like the Bucks had the control for most of it. Celtics fans were super quiet. There was sort of like a late game run where it looked like maybe Boston will get back into it. But by that time, and I love this, the arena, like a lot of people left in Boston.

And I love when Boston is quiet. It's like my favorite sound. It's really amazing. I have a lot of friends. We have a lot of people in Boston in our lives at work here. But personally, I have a lot of people from Boston in my life. And they love to text me when things are going well, when Kyrie is playing well, when the Celtics are winning. Oh, all of a sudden, Gordon Hayward, I got a lot of Gordon Hayward texts from them late in the regular season in the playoffs.

All of a sudden, my phone goes silent. Didn't hear from them in game three. I personally don't have too many Boston connections, and I personally don't have that many texts firing off on my phone. So, you know, that's just a normal Friday night for me. It was great. Yannis looked excellent, 32 points, 13 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals, 3. He was all over the place. Your guy, George Hill.

Talk about resurrections and needing somebody off the bench. George Hill's a thing again. He's a dependable guy. He is dependable as opposed to Eric Bledsoe, who has been by turns invisible and then useful and then invisible again. Right. That's exactly why they got George Hill. They saw last year Bledsoe was prone to playoff postseason slippage.

Little disappearance. George Hill has been through it all. He's gone to the finals now with the Cavs last year. He obviously wasn't great. there, but he's just a guy who will hit his shot. He's a calming presence on the floor. Doesn't make a lot of mistakes. Willing defender? Willing defender. Super long arms, super broad shoulders. He has the frame to defend multiple positions, which is exactly what you need in, you know, a switch-heavy defense against the Celtics. You need guys like that. Good weekend for guys that you like. Between Tucker and George Hill,

like, that's like really your wheelhouse. Right. Between George Hill and Pat Conaton, The buck's got 36 points off their bench from those two guys alone. Ilyossova scored five and Tony Snow had two. Tony Snow, by the way, completely fell off. There was a moment in time where Tony Snow was a useful player. Not anymore. He's played in the series? There you go.

He played six. Truly completely forgot. I forgot about Tony Snell and I looked at the game and then the box score and I was like, oh shit, remember when Tony Snow used to play? And now they don't play him. He got his money. He got his money. But Pat Conantin is all of a sudden in the rotation.

when you're talking about needing guys off the bench, Hill and Conitin were very useful for the bucks. But this was very much like when Yannis is having a game like that when he's going downhill, when he's getting to the rim, he's nigh unstoppable. And this was something that actually really frustrated the Boston Celtics. Yonis shot 22 free throws and Kyrie bitched about it afterwards and complained about sending Yannis to the line that much. Kyrie shot 12 free throws himself. I mean, now I get 22 as an outsized number. But what are the refs supposed to do and what are the Celtics supposed to do when a guy that large is coming at you full steam? He's getting contact on every single one of these plays.

It's basically, you know, a modern iteration of what Shaq had to deal with every single play down the possession. It's like these refs are going to have to call something because there's just so much contact being thrown around. And Yanis got the benefit of the call in game three. So it's just something that you have to deal with with Janus as this unique specimen of a player. But in terms of how the Bucks are doing this, I feel like it's kind of a mutually beneficial relationship that he is getting from his supporting cast. The Bucks have shot 42 threes in the past two games on average,

and they've shot those 42-3s 42%. Yeah. I mean, it's been the story for them all season. All season. They're just fucking jacking threes. And when they make them, they're really good because you've always got Yannis. And when they don't, all of a sudden, they're beatable.

and, you know, they made their threes in game three. There was also a subhead on one of our stories. Haley did the winners and losers. And I wanted to run this past you. The subhead for the story, you know, obviously the story was about Janus, but the subhead was MVP favorite Janus. And I'm genuinely asking this. Is he?

I think so. You think he's going to win it? I think he's going to win it. I went back and forth. I don't have a vote. I think I probably would have gone with Hardin. I just was like struck by the favorite label there because I think like it's a toss-up between them for me.

Would it have changed anything if we went with Frontrunner? You know, the parsing of the language I think is slightly better. I just, it never occurred to me that this was like, going to be a coronation. Yeah, it's definitely not like

he's heads and tails above the rest. The Hardin case is so strong. Yeah. It's historically strong. I could go with either one of them and it wouldn't surprise me of either one of them won, but I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe it is Janus by a lot. All right, so how do we feel about the Celtics now? because I've said, I've made this point, I'm going to keep making this point. After the entire regular season, after a first round playoff series, and now after three games in the second round, ask me what the Boston Celtics are. I have no idea. Right. I want to see what they look like in game four if Mark is smart plays.

Yeah. Because he adds an element that there is no Celtic that can offer what he offers. When the Celtics play without him, they are very much a jump shooting team. And they're a jump shooting team with him. but when the Celtics play with Marcus Marta smart and they're missing their shots, they still have their defense and they still have a lot,

this edge that they can hang with. That could change the tenor of the game. If the Celtics can hang tough, even when they're missing shots, that'll be a big factor going forward. That would be helpful. It would also be helpful if they keep the ball moving, if they share the ball, pass the ball,

shots to our guy Paul Flannery from SB Nation, he tweeted about this. When things go bad for them, when shots aren't falling, when they start to fall behind in the game, they go ISO and they don't move the ball, and that's not really their game. I mean, it's Kyrie's game, but it's not really the Celtics game.

They are a much better team when they are sharing the ball. The ball is moving. When it sticks, all of a sudden, the wheels come off. And you saw that a little bit in game three. And I thought, man, like, the Celtics just in game two were fantastic. And then all of a sudden, not so much. You've got Kyrie. Jalen Brown has emerged as, I don't know, arguably their second best player all of a sudden.

Like, yes, I know that Tatum outscored him in game three. But I don't know that Tatum has been a better player than him this postseason. Jayon Brown has been good. Tatum offers one to be. mention. Yeah. If he's not scoring, then he's really not capable. Which I wouldn't have expected because I love Jason Tatum.

I mean, like, if you asked me about these two guys, not just for this season or this series, but for their entire careers, I'm taking Jason Tatum. But Jalen Brown has really emerged for them. They need them. Yeah. One, he's a more physically mature player. He's too. He's just older, more mature player.

And I think when the Celtics are at their best, and this is kind of why I was kind of downplaying all of the concerns during the regular season. They're a team that's built for the playoffs. They're a team that's built to kind of take advantage of matchups and dictate matchups because of all of the players they have in their disposal, have multiple skills and can defend multiple positions. I feel like they're most themselves when they kind of take on the identity of like an Al Horford or when a Jalen Brown ends up kind of becoming an unlikely hero,

Kyrie doing the ISO, as you said, is not necessarily their game. Yeah. So when they have to resort to that. It's such a weird thing. Yeah. Like they need him to sometimes, but they also need to play within the confines of like the system and helping each other. And like, it's a weird dichotomy. Yes, absolutely.

They needed it in their back pocket. But for it to be the featured thing and for him to, you know, I heard, I think it was Jeff Goodman who was like, oh, I talk to a Bucks player who will remain unnamed saying that, oh, Kyrie was basically just shouting at his teammates the entire second half of the game. I love it. So I love Bad Celtics. I love Bad Kiree. It's wonderful. The Bucks are up to one. We are all Milwaukee Bucks fans to an extent.

This is the part, the caveat, the two extent part. I think as people at the Ringer have mentioned, you might be, you and Sharks might be the only people who are really excited about the potential for a Toronto-Mawaukee Eastern Conference Finals. Like, I just have a bunch of Zs above my head in a thought bubble right now. Not for me?

The two best players in the East go at it. In theory, you're right. In theory, you should look at it. And ABC executives and ESPN executives should look at it and go, this should be good for us. I don't think it will be. Oh, absolutely not. It's a series devoid of drama.

It's a series devoid of like very clear storylines. You're really just looking at excellence versus excellence. And it's boring. The two best guys in the Eastern Conference, two of the best players in the league period, one of whom could be the MVP. The other guy is, as I mentioned, probably playing along with KD, the best basketball in the playoffs.

He's playing for the best player in the world title right now. The two best teams in the Easter conference all season. And yet, I go, can't we just get Philly in Boston? Wouldn't that be way more dramatic? That's a wrench being thrown in. Yeah, I like to. And it's intrigue. But no, look, throw some wrenches.

I need that excellent. You want it. Yeah, I know you do. So you're going with the bucks in this series. Yeah. I am too. I want the Celtics to be gone and then we'll figure out what happens with the sixers. I've still got my fingers crossed for them. Danny Chow.

Make sure to read him on the ringer.com. Make sure to check him out on Corner 3. now on Wednesdays. Yep. Moved up in the lineup. It's been fantastic. He does excellent work. Danny, thanks for doing this.

Absolutely. All right, we thank Danny Chow. We thank Tate Frazier. As always, I thank my guy, Isaac Lee. Want to remind all of you, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Read all of our content on the ringer.com. Don't forget mismatches coming out you on Tuesday,

corner three on Wednesday, group chat on Thursday. And we're going to have these periodic post-game micropods on your feed. So check out those as well as they hit you. Isaac and I will definitely be. back with Heat Check next Sunday night from Monday morning. Thanks for listening, everybody. Bye.