The Ringer NBA Show - NBA Approval Ratings and the Making of ‘Sonic Boom’ | Group Chat

Episode Date: October 2, 2019

As training camps kick off, Chris and Justin evaluate their perception of some noteworthy teams (1:51). Then Ringer staff writer Jordan Ritter Conn comes on to talk about his new podcast, ‘Sonic Boom: How Seattle Lost Its Team’ (35:43). Hosts: Chris Ryan, Justin Verrier Guest: Jordan Ritter Conn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Basketball is very good. Markell Fultz will win most improved player. The only L.A. champions this year will be the Dodgers. The Knicks will play a five-power forward lineup. Basketball is very good. Hello, welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is group chat. My name is Chris Ryan, and I am joined by Justin Varyer.

On a Wednesday. On a Wednesday. So we're going to be doing this show on Wednesdays going forward into the season. You'll have your usual suite of Ringer NBA podcast products throughout the week. but we're going to do Wednesdays. Justin and I are here today talk a little bit about training camp stuff. And then the second half of the show,

Justin is going to be speaking with Jordan Kahn about his podcast. It's called Sonic Boom, How Seattle Lost Its Team. It's an incredible pod. Justin's going to chat with Jordan about the reporting of that and about what he learned in the process of making it.

Justin and I today, for your entertainment and your education, your edutainment, we're going to do preseason approval ratings. So obviously approval ratings with the presidential campaigns are in the air. Sure. And we're just sort of grabbing it out of the

ether and taking it for our own purposes. Justin and I wrote a piece on the ringer.com one of our rational conversations where we go back and forth. And we talked mostly about how we were feeling about everybody pressing Janus on the first day of school about where he's going to go to school in two years.

Basically the fact that we are back in the player movement whirlwind and that people are already asking Janus, like are you going to sign your extension next summer. And if you don't, what does that mean? And et cetera and et cetera. And whether or not he is now the new Durant, the new Anthony Davis, the new Kawhi Leonard, the new whatever. And how we feel about that, how we feel about, you know, rather than getting into the season, we're sort of already distracted by the possibilities of what can happen in 24 months. So in doing these approval ratings, we're just going to kind of give an

arbitrary number about how we're feeling about a team in their preseason. Let's start with the bucks. I think it is high in general. but relative where everyone else is on the bucks, I think I am low. Okay. I feel like there's this presumption that they could just roll everything back that they did last year.

And I think they're going to encounter some issues based on, well, for one, the personnel decisions that they made, primarily losing Malcolm Brogden or kind of letting him go to Indiana. And also this presumption that Janus can keep taking big leaps and we can get to this later.

But one of them is his shooting. and he was, I guess... He has a sensee now. Yes, he was practicing with Kyle Corver in order to help kind of rectify that. Yeah. I don't know what's going to happen there. Everybody thinks they could shoot threes now,

but the other big thing is the thing that you're talking about, which is his free agency. Yeah, so we were talking about this in our rational conversation, but I was just saying that... I don't know how much, like, responsibility, not you and I specifically, but we as media have to take, where, you know, if you just ask somebody something a hundred times, one of those answers, usually like in the 90s,

you're probably going to break the person. And they're going to say, you know what, if you don't think I want to stay in Milwaukee, maybe I just won't or something like that. I don't think Janus is just going to get prosecuted into leaving Milwaukee. But I do think that if this is a consistent question that he gets once a week, once a night, once every month, or whatever, for the next couple of months.

We've seen time and time again that most guys eventually, get pretty irritated about it and say something about it. And if you tie that kind of line of questioning in with any hiccups on the side of the bucks this season, any dip, any hangover from the Eastern Conference Finals last year, then the two are going to get tied together. The tour is going to become, oh, the bucks are only 11 and 10. Maybe Janus doesn't want to play here long term. Or am I reading way too much into it? No, I think you're exactly right. And you brought this up in the piece, this is just, they don't really, be honest, and star players don't really dictate the discussion about them. And if anything, we don't really have much more

to say or feel about the bucks except for disappointment for us to say that they just aren't meeting the expectations that they're just going to be, if not the best team in the East, perhaps one of the best teams in the NBA. And so this is really, this is going to keep coming up. And we're going to keep talking about it. And as we're, result, I wonder if this is going to just loom over their entire season. And maybe this is the type of thing that if things aren't going well starts to submarine some of their games. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, whether or not it could ever be such a big, Janus's impending free agency, not even as an impending free agency. We're talking about now is whether or not he'll sign,

what would be the richest extension, I think, in NBA history. It would be a five-year, $253 million, supermax extension, according to ESPN. Bobby Marks. It would be the largest in NBA history. And when they asked Giannis on the first day of camp about signing it, he said, I feel like if you have a great team and our goal is to win a championship and to be the last team standing and get better each day, I think it's disrespectful towards my teammates talking about my free agency and what I'm going through. Justin and I went back and forth about the different ways that different players have handled this. And we kind of came to the conclusion, or at least I did, that when we look back on how

Kauai has handled the last two seasons in terms of his exit from San Antonio, his arrival and playing season in Toronto, essentially single-handedly winning an NBA championship and then bouncing. And basically not never apologizing, because he doesn't really owe anybody an apology, but never getting really sucked into the saying things like making promises or indicating one way or another and then having to walk it back or, you know, riding high when the bandwax,

like the Kyrie thing of like when things are going, well. It's like bury me in Celtics Green. And as soon as things go wrong, it's just like, I don't get along with anybody and the world is flat. You know, Kauai didn't play any of those games. Kauai didn't do any of those, the same tricks that other free agents have done. And I wonder whether or not we'll look back and be like, that's the template. That's the template is just to treat it like a cold business decision. It seems to be Janice's approach. And I think there seem to be rumblings from like reporters. And you hear this, like if you listen to people talk about him that, that kind of knew him last season, that he was pretty standoffish with the media.

He just wasn't as gregarious and he just wasn't as available as perhaps he was when he was just this smoothie drinking, you know, just fun guy, just wanted to, you know, that everybody wanted to just turn into a cutesy little meat. I think his game kind of reflected at. Right. And so I think he will probably take that approach. But I think regardless of what approach he takes, I think we're just kind of cynical about the entire thing.

If he goes out there and says, I will resign with the Bucks, we'll just bring up Karee, and it just won't matter. So, like, at this point, perhaps being silent is the only approach because it doesn't matter what he's going to say. Having said that,

I do feel like whether or not he wants to admit it or not, this season will kind of be the perfect trial for the Bucks, because they had this off-season where they had to make, like, several key decisions, and if they don't pan out, that should signal to Janus that this is the team that you can grow with going forward. Yeah, I mean, the Brogden thing I think is personally, I think is an overrated loss, although I was pretty excited at the prospect of Philly may be getting involved in getting him.

Right. But this team is going to be as good as he is. And I don't think Brogden would have made the difference between, I mean, Wesley Matthews is obviously, I think, a step down from Malcolm Brogden, but I think that they will still be in and around where they were last year. Let's get on to another team. So you're feeling pretty good about Milwaukee's like preseason so far that your approval at a five

where would you put your reading? Three. Three? Okay. That's good. Yeah, they're going to be a good team but some of these things. It's like John Wick two. You know, three out of five? Sure. I like John week too. Let's do the Thunder. All right. Let's go to the other end. Another small market team

kind of grappling with their inability to, I guess, retain superstar talent. They've obviously had themselves quite a bit of Russell Westbrook, but broke that team up. Chris Paul comes in. Everybody assumes it's going to be like a way station and that he's going to get redirected or get bought out.

Nope. He's basically the Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce now. Royce Young was tweeting about how Chris Paul was dropping lots of really seasoned O'KC references in all of his like quotes. It's incredible. You know, he was actually nice to Barry Tremel. And he, is already getting everybody on a plant-based diet on the Thunder.

How long do you think before he takes over Kevin Durant's restaurant and he just puts beyond meat in there? Didn't he something else move in there? Didn't he shut that down? Oh, well, he just take that over. Okay. Corporate bio. So, C-P-3s? Yeah.

Roberson is back. So he has also changed to a plant-based diet. That's great. That's great. In fact, Stephen Adams seems to be the lone hold out there. Andrew Robertson also had, I wouldn't say it was a shot. but he was basically talking about what's been really difficult for him

over the last two seasons of missing essentially because of knee injuries and he was talking about how it was watching guys not get locked down and specifically mentioned Lillard last season and it was kind of a Paul George shot. Right. In any case,

you know, this is a team that's going to, in all likelihood, be pretty bad but better than maybe we expected. And I think that they are handling this about as well as they possibly could. Yeah, I don't know. I think this is the point in the season where guys just say things. I'm pointing this out in our little back and forth there, but we pretty much consider guys saying anything to be news.

They've had the entire off season in order to craft these sort of responses. So if they don't come saying the things that they should, I think it's a bad sign. But Chris Paul's too old to be like, to be pretending, right? He's very practiced. He was practiced when you wanted to ask him about like this small. small as things that were just completely inconsequential. For the clippers, you mean?

Just, yeah, throughout his entire career. So I'm not surprised that he was basically a politician to fit our theme here going on this. But I don't know. They're a weird team, and for that reason, I'm super intrigued. There was this one photo for Media Day in which

like three of their guards, it was Chris Paul, Shea, Gilchrist, Alexander, Terence Ferguson. I think it was Hamadu Diallo was the other one. And I'm just like, that could be a lineup and this could get like very weird and maybe that will be fun. You're in too deep. You're in way too deep. Yeah.

Way too early. I was just, they also have very nice uniforms. I don't know if you've seen the little treats they've made. I like the thunder. I'm in trans because they got this like nice little like yellow thing going on in there now. It just really pops. There was also along with the I could have locked down Lillard had I been healthy. There was a little bit of chit chat about the ball is going to really fly around.

We're going to move the ball. Gall and Ari talked about that. Right. Not that it was like, you know, peace out to Russ, but it's going to be almost psychedelic to see an Oklahoma City team that's not running through Russell Westbrook.

Yeah, it'll be fun for like the month that it happens. I mean, just look at the West. This team cannot compete, and thus the only like conclusion you can come to is that they're going to have to like tear it down. I believe Gallo is on an expiring contract and our guy Roberson, even though he is more sfelt

and perhaps looking to get retribution on the Blazers, or whatever he's trying to do these days. He's also on an expiring contract. So if he shows any sort of value, that's a guy who probably could be playing for the Sixers. I honestly don't feel like this is a tanking team right now. So they have to make some trades if that's what they want to do. No, they're too good to tank.

I guess with the new lottery odds, it doesn't matter. But it would make sense for them to kind of reboot. How long is Chris Paul going to want to say this? Like, there's only so long he could turn his comments into... $40 million. Like, this is not. a movable deal. Yeah.

And he's probably getting way more from these like veiled advertisements for beyond me. I don't think it's veiled. I think he's like a spokesperson but I'm just saying like this is not like a flippable deal.

Like it will be difficult. You think he, you think that he's gone by by the end of All Star. That would, yeah, that would be my expectation. Do you don't think this team

wants to win like 36 games? Maybe. What does that get them? I guess. I think it sustains the local connection to the franchise. I think a straight-up Philly-style tank is hard for them.

It's hard for them in that town. That's a good point. I do wonder because Oklahoma City is such a new fan base, perhaps they think like new fans, and thus they get tanking. I don't know. They're also in the deep south. I don't know, like, the rhythms of fanning.

Oklahoma is not in the deep south. Are you okay? Yeah. What, is Southwest? It's like the Great Plains, dude. All right, well, the Great Plains. The Deep South? Wait, let's do some geography

It's okay I've messed stuff up all the time like that But like I know Where do you think Oklahoma is Above Texas Why do you think that's the deep south I don't know

It's just the first thing that came to mine We are not editing this out No that's fine I also lived in the south So this is particularly bad I know So I think that On a sliding scale

Of what the thunder can be I'm gonna give them a four In approval rating I think that they came out and they said all the right things. Yeah. And I think that, like, this is the moment

where you blink twice and look at the depth chart and you'll be like, it's not that bad. It's not that bad. And this is the first time we're going to get to see Billy Donovan,

coach a non-Russelaweck team. I think they might be a little bit more modernized. And I think that they actually might be a little bit pesky this season. I can see them being the new Clippers, which is appropriate, considering Chris and Shay are there.

Yeah. There is a lot of stuff here. There's a lot of above-averageness, and that can get you, that can get you some wins. especially in the bold germs of March. Especially if guys are taking 22 games off this season for load management. Like, you never know.

You never know with the, like, the teams that were like, oh, well, the eight seat is a battle between these two or three teams. Like, I don't count Oklahoma City out if they keep this roster together. Yeah. There will be someone and everyone, and the sun's expected to be them, but it will not be the sons, everybody else. The sons expect to be in the playoff race? Yes.

With who? I don't know. With like what team that they think this every year. think Booker and Aiton and... Yeah, they're always building for... Well, not always, but the past two years, they've been building for the now. I think last year they made certain moves in order to take a run. I mean, they signed Trevor Reza for that very reason.

They signed Ricky Rubio to an absurd contract in order to take a leap this season. That's deranged. They got Cam Johnson, who says old as Devin Booker in the draft. I love draft and old guys, though. Do you? Yeah. Yeah. Vetter know-how?

Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to go, what did I say? Four for the Thunder. What do you give in them? I don't know. Two. All right.

The jerseys are nice. That's it. It's like Crossfire and CNN. Sure. Let's do the Lakers. KOC and Verno talked a lot about the Lakers yesterday on the mismatch. So I don't want to like belabor the point other than to say there's a lot of propaganda coming out of the Lakers camp right now. So I'm going to give the Lakers a five in terms of their ability to manage the sports information desk.

LeBron and AD's starting five along with KCP Dwight and Avery Bradley, which is some real Rip Van 2011 shit right there. LeBron, AD, KCP, Dwight, and Avery Bradley were apparently so good they got mercy ruled off the practice floor because they were just destroying everyone else. Practices have been physical, bodies flying all over the place. The Lakers are going to play smash-mouth defense first basketball. and Dwight Howard has been all business. Cool.

It's great stuff. Here's what I want to know. Who are the Gibronies that were on the other side of this starting five? Because, well, we can do it by, those players are not very good. And the Russo? The Lakers are so thin that they're probably throwing out some lineup of like Jared Dudley and Costas and Teddicumpo out there.

It was, well, Dudd got hurt. I think it was Troy Daniels, Alex Caruso, Danny Green, I assume. Rondo? Rondo and Javelle? So do they just run post-ups for Anthony Davis and Dwight Howard? But that's a really good point. It's like the message that got out was like AD and LeBron were so good. They had to like close the gym and hose it down.

But it's like, oh, but you guys were playing against some dudes off of like the Venice Pier. Also, maybe LeBron just knew that like if he played really well that they would let him coast for the rest of the practice. at this point LeBron does not need to practice so maybe they were just going to shut them down anyway but they kind of do need to practice they kind of do

I mean like this is a new team again they do need to get used to each other I mean there is a bunch of new guys on this team Anthony Davis and LeBron James need to get some like chemistry going on basketball wise don't they? Apparently and they were shooting together I guess the other day

they were shooting threes and it's great because the video that came out was LeBron James missing corner threes like four in a row and I think the object was to show like yeah look at the these guys shooting threes now. This is all going to work out. It was just like, oh, God. So in terms of, in terms of, like, propaganda, I'm going to go five for the Lakers. But in terms of

real approval, what are you giving them? One, I'm really sick of the circus of this team already. Like, I just don't want to hear from any of them ever. You're so ready for the Joker movie. You're like, I'm sick of this. Like, disgusting propaganda. I feel like this is the entire summer. I just want to see them. play. I think they'll be incredible AD and LeBron together, but in terms of just like everything else is going on, it's just like completely I have no bandwidth for it.

From your least favorite L.A. team to possibly your least favorite team in the NBA and the 76ers. Okay, I'm going to surprise you here. Okay. I'm kind of high on them. Yes. I don't know, man. You look at the east, as I was just saying, it's pretty thin. There aren't many good teams. There's like two good teams. You know what else is thin?

Joe L.M.B., baby, because he lost 20 pounds through the power of concentration. Did you hear about this? He wasn't doing crossfit? No, he's just like, I lost 20 pounds. People were like, well, what did you? Paleo, Kettoe, CrossFit, like cut out carbs, cut out sugar.

He was just like, no, I'm just focused on what I need to do. Wow. Mind literally overmatter. So, I mean, you know, that this was a lingering thing coming into the season was the lack of dependability on Embed's knees and stomach throughout the playoffs. And he seemed pretty, like, pretty aware of that. You know, he did not duck that. He was like, I really feel like I let the guys down in the end of the season,

and I need to do everything for my body to make sure that doesn't happen. And along with those lines, it'll be very interesting to see this because I feel like, and many Sixers fans do, that they were basically trying to, like, win an MVP for him in the first half of the season, and that they were playing him the kind of minutes you play when you're trying to rack up stats. Right. minutes left. He's still in there getting rebounds and stuff like that. And I think that they're going to try and manage his minutes a lot better. And then the next question is obviously always can Ben shoot and how well does he have to shoot for this team to be any better than they were

last year? He could shoot step back turnarounds on some guy in the New York, like Chris Berkeley gym. Yes. Yeah. I don't know about real games. Right. But I guess we'll see. It sounds like from the quotes that are coming out of training camp that they're just going to give him a green light when it's available? I think he, they need him to be a willing participant. Yeah, even if he takes two a game just to keep defense as honest, that's going to create a lot of gravity and open things up for everyone else, which is what they need. I mean, we're talking about this all summer. They're going to need shooting in order to make this work. Yeah, and they, everybody's saying the right things. The Horford Lovin is in full effect. Josh Richardson seems very happy to be there. I still think

that they're thin in the back court, but maybe Trey Burke is the answer because dudes were flipping out about Trey Burke. Ben Simmons is like, Treyberg. was God in practice yesterday. Brett Brown was like Troy Burke had a really good in and out handle. Like you had it on a string. So Sixers, give me an approval rating. I'm pretty high.

I think the longer things go on and as you start to see these guys come into camp, I don't know, it makes it more real and it sort of affects your outlook as a result and I look at them all stacked together and they are fucking huge. And I don't know how anybody guards them.

Like, who has the proper combination in order to guard Embed... They have also talked about their ability to play smashmouth basketball. The return of smashmouth basketball is the funniest plot twist of the NBA season so far. The East is going to be like a monster truck rally.

You think so? I mean, Janice is going to be out there. Brooke Lopez is going to be out there. Turner and Sabonis versus Horford and Embed. Yeah, I mean, I wrote about this this summer. I think there's like a possibility that we start pivoting to big. Now you have to match that with shooters

and that's the essential question for the Sixers, especially because you look at their bench And I'm just like, where is the auxiliary, like kind of the backup shooting coming from? Yeah. Let's say El Horford isn't playing or the spacing just isn't working. Like, teams are going to go super small. And like, maybe Tobias Harris has to, like, not play or play the four as opposed to three.

And you have guys like Thibel. You have guys like Zaire Smith. I don't know, but there's a lot of talent. And it's going to be a cakewalk probably to the Eastern Conference finals, unless some team in the East, like, really pops off. and in a playoff series, I don't know, against the bucks, I think I would give the Sixers the edge at this point. Really? Is that crazy?

The assumption is going to be that those two teams are going to be at the top of that conference. The one thing that I've learned over the last couple of seasons, especially last season in the Western Conference, is just simple twist of fate of seating. And it would be fascinating if one of those two teams basically was like, you know what, like we're going to make sure our guys are healthy throughout the season. So two or three or four even is not that big of a deal.

We saw what happened with Portland last season. And the inevitability of Philly and Milwaukee playing in the Eastern Conference finals, I don't know. I don't know. I think there's a possibility that this team has a Raptors-like season where... Philly does. Yeah. Yeah.

That they just have... Which just wire to wire. Right. Like that they do well in the regular season, but it isn't just like just... completely glittering. But the confidence that ever wavered in the team is what I mean by Wired right. Not necessarily they led Wired to Warr.

It seems like they have a clear identity and they have talent. The really unknown is Josh Richardson. And it seems like even if he's just like a spot-up shooter, he plays a little defense, it will work. I think there's a possibility that this is the best defensive team in the league. And even if they don't rank that in the regular season, put them in a playoff series and they could just lock people down, especially if Ben Simmons becomes a defender, we all think he should be.

Yes. and which he seems to be focused on becoming. The only thing he talks about right now is, like, I just want to be the best possible defender, which is, like, startling, it's, like, terrifying. It should be terrifying to people. Because if Ben Simmons is Ben Simmons, and he's just, like, absolutely obsessed with defense,

you're talking about one of the best two-way players in the league. Yeah, he's in... Everybody else can eat shit. He's not in a contract year. He's in a trade-me year. Because he's just signed... He's just signed an extension, and he's going to want out eventually, you presume.

and so he's doing everything. I dare you. Stop trying to see. You know what you want is Ben Simmons in some backwater city, whether it's the deep south of Nebraska or whatever you think it is. You just want him on some shit team

with four shooters so you could see your dream of Ben Simmons come true. What would you think about Chris Paul, Philadelphia 76er? You know that that would make it, like, that would basically be a perfect basketball team, right?

It would be pretty good. You won't hurt your defense. Ice. Yeah. CP3 76 or, like, I just, as a guy who spent a lot of time watching Chris Paul. Uh-huh. Chris Paul, Josh Richardson, Tobias Harris, Al Horford, Joel, NB, starting five. Oh, my God.

Now, that team is winning, what, 68 games? Are you trolling me right now? No, I'm dead serious. If Chris Paul can conjure up any of his former glory? 80% of Chris Paul. 80% of Chris Paul. That's like a mid-60 win team. And they would probably get like, like,

three of those first round picks they got from the clippers in order to make that work. And like maybe Gallo or, no, the salary wouldn't match at that point. That's like $100 million coming the other way. It's like Gallo and CP3. Yeah. Or like the gross national product of Argentina. Maybe you could get Abdul-Mater. Okay.

I'm not saying I like that. I'm just saying I acknowledge that I like your, I want to talk a little bit more about this idea of it's not a contractor, it's a trade mirror. Is there anybody else you think is in that camp? Towns? Yeah. I know. I know. That's exactly what I was thinking. I feel by December, January, as teams that are hopeful that things will work out but probably won't, I think we're going to start to see the next wave of guys who want out. I mean, we talked about this.

Let's outline this for me. So you're saying that this is a situation where a player who's on an extension, but in relation to Blake Griffin and John Wall, like a relatively reasonable extension. and they're in a kind of like a weird situation in terms of where the team is going. But they don't dog it. Like they're actually like putting up numbers and trying because they're like, this is what you get if you trade for me. Right. They're at the point in their careers where they've established themselves individually,

but they still have question marks, whether it's they don't win enough, they don't help their team win enough. They don't play the certain way in order to be a winning player. or they're just like not doing what they need to do to fit into the team. I think there are guys like towns. I think DeAndrelle Russell is another perfect case here where the Warriors ostensibly traded for him in order to trade him again.

And he will have to do a lot in order to fit in next to step in order to make that defense even competent. And so I wonder if he's the type of guy who plays nice, plays off the ball, defers. I can't believe he's in such a great environment learning from such great players. Best shape of his life. Dremont is taking him under his wing. And then all of a sudden at the trade deadline or next summer, it's like, oh, hey, he's on the Hawks.

I think it's more like not to take this full circle and be exactly what we were just lampooning in the beginning of this podcast. But I think it's more like next summer to the bucks. Hmm. For Middleton? I don't know. No, not Middleton. Oh, you mean for Janice? Wow.

Okay. We're going nuclear here. Don't you think? This is the thing is that even if Janus doesn't want to talk about it, well, people will talk about is other teams making the two-year plan. Don't you think? Yeah, no. I think teams, especially the teams that don't have much to look forward to this year are

already planning on. It's going to be like Pat Riley hooked up to a blood boy, you know, like in Fury Road, just waiting for the possibility of Janus coming to Florida. Yeah. It's going to be exactly like that. Yeah, I could see that. I mean, the Warriors thirst after everybody. Like when they were riding high and winning 60 games and just bled,

blowing everybody out in the playoffs, losing one game in the playoffs. Everyone's like, Anthony Davis is coming. They're setting themselves up for the Anthony Davis trade. Right. And didn't happen, but like they still do have, they have some assets. They don't have draft picks anymore. But Russell, I guess, if that's... When did the draft picks start repopulating?

Or are they just all such so bad that they're like, it doesn't really matter. They're like lead first rounders. I think they're at a point considering what they traded this offseason where they only have one to trade. Did they trade when to get rid of Igwadala? Oh, yeah. So they've done a lot of that, and I think they've probably traded draft picks in the past. I would have to look it up, but I think they have, like, one at their disposal. And that's just like, if they're planning on trading for Yannis, it's going to be the 30th pick in draft.

So it doesn't have much value. I have no idea how it happens. I'm just saying that there's a bunch of teams that are going to be when they make a move and you're like, why are they doing that? It's like, oh, they think they have a shot at him. The Hawks, the Hawks are going to get Yannis. Why do you keep saying that? The second time you said that. You think that's true?

I think the Hawks are probably the team with one of the best... asset like packages and they're at the point where they have guys that if they just traded for an established star then all of a sudden they have something to hit the ground running with as opposed to a team like the thunder who if they traded whatever they have for yannis right now that's not a team like they just wouldn't have much left no i mean i think also presumably the issue here is if yannis feels hemmedian at all in milwaukee i mean i yonis is definitely one of these guys now is he's on like six different commercials so it's hard for me to imagine like how much bigger he could be in Los Angeles or New York.

I think he would be a god in either one of those places. But he seems to be the next face of the league. That's an interesting question. I do wonder how much that matters to him. Like just from a personality standpoint and also in terms of marketability. Like, do we need our star in one of these markets? Or at least just not Milwaukee, because Milwaukee is a little bit sleepier even than some of these more attractive.

Yeah, I mean, he could go 90 minutes down the road and be in Chicago and probably have like two times the exposure. Yeah, I mean, there's a reason why he's able to duck the media as much as he reportedly has because there's just there isn't a big throng there and there just isn't as much of a media crush. I want to let you get to your interview with Jordan. Is there any other team that you wanted to do an approval rating on? I put down the Bulls here just because Boylan gave like a really like heartfelt yet like kind of low-key funny speech about how he's like, it's all sinking in that he's the coach of the Bulls

and he wants to win one for the Reinsdorf and John Paxson. which is like, I'm with you. I can't wait to see the Bulls this season, but I keep forgetting that he's the coach. Yeah, I think they're going to be competent. I think they, I would expect them to make the playoffs. Okay. The one...

You would expect the Chicago Bulls to make the playoffs this season. Yeah, they just have a lot of guys. A great pod from you. Yeah. A lot of good takes. A lot of takes. Yeah. CP3 for Ben Simmons and the Bulls are going to the playoffs?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, here, I'll pivot to something that nobody cares about. Willie Collie Stein is injured. Uh-huh. And I'm looking at the Warriors' depth chart, and I'm like, who the hell plays now?

Like, yeah, Kavan Looney is still there, but after that, there's just, like, kind of a barren wasteland. Okay. They're just counting on a lot of guys who should not be playing heavy minutes. You're just pivoting away from Boylan on me. Yeah, yeah, I don't want to talk about that.

Okay. Let's talk about the Warriors game. Okay. I don't know. I was hopeful that he could be kind of, like, this defensive menace and would allow Draymond to just, like, kind of ease into, like, the back end of the regular season,

like he had last year. Yeah. the 20 pounds at the All-Star break. Yeah, right. And so I do wonder, they're going to ask a lot of Stefan Dremont and all of a sudden guys who were able to take a couple games off in the regular season every year, and we didn't really even care or notice because they were just so top-heavy,

that that's going to start to matter more. And the other bit of news that came out was that Clay's out until the All-Star Break. And so if things aren't going gangbusters... Do you really bring them back? Right. I have high hopes for the Warriors. actually could bring him back if he wants to get into shape play for Team USA. Yeah, he could do that.

I don't know what he said about that, but a lot of guys are coming in. I think everybody is like, I would love to represent my country again. And they're, you know, they're putting it in just the right way. It's becoming a pissing contest, I think, at this point. And Draymond said that he's planning his wedding around it, so he hopes he makes the team. What a, what a passive aggressive move. I wonder how his wife feels about that. I'm sure that's really like keeping Jerry Colangelo up in night.

Right. is where Draymond's registered. Yeah, I think he has other parts. Whether he not got, whether or not he was able to get that rustic barn in upstate New York. So on the one hand, I think the... Farm to table, just like community seating,

past dishes, you know, it's really, the centerpiece is just like really natural from local greens. Yeah. The Warriors. The Warriors I'm going to give three and a half. I'm going to go to,

I think, well, okay, I'll say in terms of their title process, I'll go a two. I mean, I am starting to reconsider that. In terms of how fun they could be as a result, I think they could be a five because this means Steph is going to have to be in fuego. I'm going three and a half because I think for a couple of seasons, they've had to imagine a chip on their shoulder and imagine disrespect.

And now they actually are being disrespected. Right. And they can actually legitimately have bulletin board material now, of people being like, they're not going to make the playoffs, they're trash, whatever. Like, I think that Iguidala and Livingston, while essential to their success, their absence is not going to crater their team. I think Steph is going to be super fun this year. I think DeAngel's really good. I think Kerr's very smart.

And I think that they'll be better than people think. And I think that they get to play pissed off for the first time and a long time. It's better than introducing to Marcus Cousins. It's actually something. Good point. Let's wrap it up there. Justin's going to talk to Jordan Kahn about Sonic Boom, the Luminary podcast. that Jordan did. It's a fantastic achievement. I can't wait to hear their interview.

We will be back next Wednesday and every Wednesday with group chat. We're back. It's Justin taking over for Chris, who has left us. But in his place, we've got, dare I say a ringer. It is Jordan Khan, staff writer at the ringer, here to talk about his new podcast, Sonic Boom, how Seattle lost its team on Luminary Jordan. How's it going, man? Good, Justin. How are you? I am doing great. I am also, writing a high because I just listened to the first episode of your incredible new podcast, and I can't wait to hear the rest of it. Tell us a little bit about the project. How did you get started on it? How did it come about? Yeah. So I think about a year ago,

some ideas were being kicked around here at the ringer for a narrative documentary podcast in sports. And I think in telling a story in this medium, what I found myself drawn to is stories that felt kind of vast and sprawling. And that's how this story felt. It's a story that unfolds in two different cities, both vastly different in Seattle and Oklahoma City. It's a story that involves a lot of people who we all remember very well and know very well,

like Gary Payton, Sean Kemp, Delaf Shremf, but also a lot of people who are every bit as critical to the story who so many fans and people in each of those cities, much less beyond, have ever heard of. And it just felt like there was so much there to explore. It's a story that is very much a basketball story, but also equally a political story and equally a business story.

And it just felt like it would lend itself to this kind of multi-episode, kind of narrative documentary style. So we decided to go for it. Yeah, just personally, I grew up in Connecticut and the Sonics were my favorite team. like Sean Kemp, Gary Payton, this was the most exciting team in basketball. And so as just a fan of that team and kind of wanting to recreate some of those memories, I'm definitely interested. But at the same time, if you look at the past couple decades of the league,

you could argue that this is one of the most important events, if only because it kind of spawned this team in Oklahoma City. And then they obviously aggregated this, like these collection of stars who were now probably, you know, five best players in the league. dictating the fate of the league and all that. But the Sonics themselves, like, had a moment, and I wonder how much younger fans kind of realize that or appreciate that. Did you have any kind of connection to the team when you first started this?

You know, it's funny. You mentioned growing up in Connecticut and falling in love with this team. I had an experience of growing up equally far away in suburban Atlanta, and I just absolutely love the Sonics as a kid. I mean, you couldn't not love them. where there was an edge to them, a swagger to them. The way they played was just so intense and in your face that there was just something magnetic. And even, you know, it's one of the, we talked to a number of people who played for the franchise,

but one of them was Desmond Mason, who told a story of growing up in Texas and kind of having the exact same relationship with this team. They represented something in the 90s that felt kind of synonymous with Seattle or at least with an idea that people from other parts of the country had about Seattle. And yeah, so I think particularly in the first episode, what we wanted to do is kind of establish for perhaps some younger fans who maybe don't remember watching the Sonics play, or at least not watching that era of the Sonics play, showing what they once meant and what they once represented. Not only the team itself, but also the fan base, the home court advantage that they had in the 90s was among the very best in the league.

George Carl told us a story of a playoff game against the jazz where for hours and hours, afterward he couldn't hear anything because the crowd noise had been so loud. So we wanted to kind of really capture the sense of what they once meant to, to Seattle and to the league as a whole before kind of telling the story of how they were taken away. Yeah, and one of the faces or names that current day fans will probably know is Indiana Pacers head coach Nate McMillan, who I don't think it gives too much a way to say is one of the first voices you hear. And before he was the Pacers coach, he was Mr. Sonic.

in addition to Nate, who else did you talk to and kind of get perspective from for this project? Yeah. So of the kind of bigger NBA-centric names, Nate, Gary Payton, Lenny Wilkins, Detleff Shremf,

but then it goes kind of so far beyond just the players we talk to. We talked to a U.S. Senator. We talked to the former city attorney for Seattle and people who were involved in litigation that kind of led to the team ultimately getting out of town. We went to both Seattle and to Oklahoma City and talked to people who were very involved in kind of all aspects of the sale and to people who were very involved in kind of the political environment in Seattle being such that it kind of paved the way for the team to be vulnerable and people who were involved in the political kind of situation in Oklahoma City that helped that city become kind of a fertile market for a team to come there.

And the thing that kind of stands out to me as I think back on it is how all. All of these voices felt equally important. Like Gary Payton's voice in this podcast is no more important than the voice of the left-wing activist who is fighting against stadium funding in Seattle or the diehard Sonics fan who was fighting so hard to do anything he could to keep the team in town. The politicians, the players, the business people, they all kind of carry equal weight in the story of how this all happened. What is an interview with Gary Payton like?

Gary Payton was the very last person we interviewed for the podcast. And I interviewed him in Miami where he was for a big three events, where he's now a coach. And I'd been given a few minutes of a heads up. He knocked on my hotel door, hotel room door, came in, and we sat on the couch for about 20 minutes. And he just, it was like the moment. moment the moment the mics were on and we started talking, he just completely came alive. And you just so immediately see why he is such a legendary talker. He held, held nothing back when it came to Howard Schultz, who obviously figures very prominently in all of this. And he held

nothing back in kind of talking about his own sense of himself and his place in the league. You just kind of want to listen to him talk forever. I mean, he still has the same kind of raspy voice that he's always had, that just kind of draws you in. And it's absolutely over the moon that we got that interview and are able to have his voice in the pod. Yeah, I was always a Kemp guy, but as I've gotten older, Peyton has definitely been just a fascination of mine. I remember reading Black Planet, the David Shields book,

and he's just obsessed with Gary Payton. And it goes into detail about how this, like, middle age, just professional just, like, wants to behave, like, Peyton on the basketball court. And I feel like I can kind of connect with that a little bit more as I get older. Yeah, he's like, he's, I think if you have a certain kind of personality, he's like what you wish you could be. Like everyone would like to imagine themselves being able to be that brash, that self-assured,

and that talented, frankly. He, you know, one of the anecdote that is mentioned in the pod that and that I mentioned to Gary when I spoke with him is, I have a younger sister who. who's never been a big basketball fan, but for a very brief period of time when we were kids, she went through a phase where she tried to get really into the sport. And her immediate favorite player, whose jersey she had to have was Gary Payton

because you can watch him for five minutes and you're immediately just completely drawn to him. And there's just something so magnetic about him, both on and off the court. All right. So how many episodes are in the series in total? There are eight episodes. So it'll be once a week every Thursday on Luminary for eight weeks. And do you have a particular favorite or maybe a favorite moment that you can kind of divulge?

I don't know. I don't want to give it too much away. You know, I will say my favorite episodes are in the back half. Episode six is probably the episode with the wildest turns. A lot of good work has been done on this story in years past, the documentary science. Sonic Skate did a very thorough job and other journalists have told the story. But we uncovered some things, some elements of the story that have never been told before. And a lot of that happens in episode six and then episode eight as well. For sure. Well, I can't wait to listen to the rest of it. Like I said, I've listened to the first one. I have the second one waiting for me and I'll probably

kind of binge that one right after work. So everybody else can start listening, starting tomorrow. And you could find Sonic Boom on Luminary. And you could use our boss, Bill Simmons. promo code. Thanks, Bill. That's Luminary.com slash Simmons to get two free months of Luminary. Definitely sign up and take a listen. That's it for this episode of MBA group chat. Thanks to Jordan for coming on. And for me and for Chris, we will see you next Wednesday. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.