The Ringer NBA Show - NBA Awards and Free Agency (Ep. 129)

Episode Date: June 27, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor discuss the NBA Awards ceremony and some memorable moments (2:33). Then they take a hard look at upcoming free-agency moves (24:25). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Enter the promo code Ringer NBA. Seekek's going to send you $20 once you've made your first ticket purchase. Download the Seat Geek app and enter the promo code Ringer NBA today. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show, I'm Chris Vernon, and joining me as he has on Tuesday throughout the season. great Kevin O'Connor. Kevin! Chris, I'm happy to be with the great Chris Vernon. What's going on, man?

How was your trip to L.A.? I saw you. I watched your videos. Yeah, it was fun, man. The draft was a good time. I glad we got the Big Butler trade. It was fun. I enjoyed it. Yeah, and then I actually tweeted out. I watched your video.

You were very slanderous towards Lori marketing. I found that to be unbelievable. I think the quote was, He guards like he's six foot five and rebounds like a small guard. And I was like, wow. Congratulations to the Bulls. Bulls get an F plus for their draft grade.

F plus. How did you settle on F plus? You know, I've been told that F plus and F minus isn't a real grade. But, you know, whatever. I don't care. It wasn't quite an F, but it wasn't quite a D either. That's why we settled on an F plus. So what are we like?

It's like a 59. Yeah, exactly. It's been so long as I've been in school, is that right? Isn't it? Wouldn't it 60 a D? Wouldn't that like barely making it? You had to be below six.

Yes, exactly. If we were giving out grades on a 1 to 10 scale, I would have given up like a 5.8, so I gave it an F plus. That's my reasoning for giving what is apparently not a real grade. There you go. All right. Well, at the end of the week, free agency is going to start, and we're going to talk about that at the tail end of the podcast.

But we're going to start off with the award show was last night, the NBA Award show. and it was a show to announce everything, but what really comes out of it is who won all of the awards. Before I get into the actual show, it was mid-afternoon yesterday that it was announced that the all-defensive team included Draymond, Rudy Gobert, Kauai Leonard, Chris Paul, and Patrick Beverly.

That was the first team. And it seems as if the biggest source of controversy that came out of it was actually other players within the NBA outraged. I don't want, maybe outrage is a strong word. But they were very surprised to not see Avery Bradley's name on any of the all defensive teams. When you saw it was announced the all defensive teams, did it stand out to you before they all mentioned it? Did it stand out to you that Avery Bradley was a deserving player that was not on there, a glaring omission? Or were there any other omissions that stood out?

No, honestly, like Avery Bradley not being on there is okay with me. I think I'm a little bit surprised that he didn't get more votes, but he wasn't on my ballot for that, to be honest with you, and that's primarily just because of games played. The thing that really sticks out to me is the fact that, like, so many players just came out of nowhere just to say, this guy deserved to be there. And I think their voice matters. And I think it says something that so many of them really were putting their voice out there

in support of Ava Bradley. I thought so too, right? I mean, I take what they say very seriously, right? They know. They know who they don't want to faith. play the game. Yeah, well, they know who they don't want to face. They know who is a difficult player to go up against, right? And, and if Avery Bradley's, he certainly has gotten the respect around the league from other guys that when that list came out, enough people thought that

was goofy that he wasn't on it for me to at least think, hey, maybe you should have been on that thing. I'll tell you one thing, Chris. The fact, like only 100 media members aside all these awards that play so much into contracts and all that stuff is really disappointing. I think, I I think players deserve a voice and they deserve a vote. That's just my main thing. They at least deserve a percentage of the vote. Maybe it's only 25%. Maybe it's only 10%.

But I think the player vote deserves at least some say and what the vote actually is. And I think last night was a good example of that, which is how much people came out in support of Ava Bradley. In fairness, they gave the players a vote on the All-Star teams and many of them made a mockery of it. So yeah, they screw that up. Yep. They did. They made a mockery of it.

Yeah, they did. I mean, Tony Allen periscoped who he was voting for. He put like Luke Babbitt on the All-Star team. Like, you just made a mockery of the entire thing. And so it's like, all right, this is what. And I'm not saying they all treated it the same way. But it's not like many of the players during the course of the season. When the media relations people sit them down and say, hey, you have to do this,

it becomes like it doesn't become something that they want to take extremely seriously and research a lot they just go and like it's something they have to do before they go eat and do whatever they want to do and so they don't right i'm not i wish that there was a way to get the players to take something they voted on extremely seriously but i it might be far-fetched i think there is you just don't put every NBA player on the ballot i think maybe you have a small a smaller committee that decides a group of like, let's say, let's say it's for MVP. It'll be like eight players that can be voted on for MVP or for all defensive first team or both all defensive teams.

It can be a group of like 30 players that can be chosen from to choose the 10 players for both teams. Something like that where you're not having these random ass dudes getting chosen for the teams by the players. And you're also not having people select Isaiah Thomas for second team all defense or Cody Zeller or Damien Lillard. what I'm saying? That's what I think the solution is limit the amount of players

that can be voted on, which means that I think by default, the vote has to be taken more seriously since only good players, players who deserve to be chosen can be selected. The other thing is making public who they voted for. And I know that's a hard thing to do,

but that's what they do with the media, and that's what kind of keeps people in line. Because you know if you don't vote for a guy, let's just say you don't like a guy, guy, you know, Custy, out in the locker room or whatever, blew you off for an interview. Like, if you hold that grudge and don't vote for them, like, they're going to release who you voted for.

Like, so I will say in that sense, along with the media, though I don't think the media should necessarily be deciding this stuff, they do hold them accountable for it so that we can all point and laugh or say, what the hell is that guy thinking, voting for that guy. And speaking of that, can the NBA please release the executive of the year votes? because who voted for Gar Foreman as executive of the year? Are you kidding me? Come on. Well, unfortunately, it is post-trade, right?

It is post-trade, so I don't know. Oh, my goodness. He signed Rajan Rondo and Dwayne Wade. Come on. Was there any kind of deal that was made in the middle of the season that the opposing GM would have voted for him? I can't recall. They traded the Taj Gibson, the Doug McDermott trade. Okay, so Sam Presti voted for him.

Yes, Sam Presti. He's like, thanks, Gar. Yeah. Oh, it's the campaign deal, right? Yeah, yeah. That was part of the trade. He's like, okay, if we do this trade, I'll also vote for you as executive the year. Okay, deal.

That was part of the deal. I'll do it. All-Rookie team was Malcolm Brogden, Dario Sarich, Joe L. Embed, Buddy Healed, and Willie Hernan Gomez. Any problem with the starting all-rooky team? Nah, I had Jalen Brown over Hernan Gomez, but it's whatever. It was a toss-up between those guys. I don't feel strongly about it either way.

And I think it's fair to say, uninjured Mbid is certainly going to be the best of these. Like, right? And though he did not win. Brogden did win rookie of the year last night. And that was mostly, I mean, listen, I don't want to take anything away from Malcolm Brogden because he had an outstanding. It is very hard to have a good year as a rookie point guard. and he did.

So I don't want to take anything away from his season, but we know that Embed playing whatever it was, 30 games, is the reason. He just couldn't stay on the court this past year. If he had, if you extrapolate what he was doing, even in the limited minutes, he would have been the runaway rookie of the year, but that was a function of him.

He didn't play enough games, and I didn't think he played enough games. I didn't think, you know, when people were bringing that up, my opinion was you wouldn't vote for an MVP that only played this many games, he wouldn't vote for a defensive player of the year that played this many games, and he wouldn't vote for a coach that coach that many games. So, right?

Like, why are we, I get that we like him and he's hilarious on social media, but fair's fair. You can't give the award to a guy that played 30 games. Exactly. The best ability is availability, and that's where Embedd fell significantly short. And I think, I think, look, there's a case to be made that Abed should have won rookie of the year for the 31 games he played and the impact he made in those games. But I think Brogden was good enough over the full duration of the season.

season that he deserved to be the rookie of the year. The other ones that came out, Hustle Award, went to Pat Beverly. The performance of the year was Clay Thompson, 60 points in 29 minutes. I don't really have a problem with that. I mean, the kid hit 11 threes. That was like otherworldly. And Booker, who had 70, he lost in the game, right? How about Devin Booker?

Yeah, that was going to say, Devon Booker scoring 70. I know, but they lost. That came in garbage time, though. So I'm sure that's why Tom, yeah, exactly, because he lost and Thompson didn't get all the buckets in the garbage time either. The playoff moment went to Durant's pull up three in game three of the NBA finals. I was fine with that. I mean, that is one of those shots that we'll remember for maybe ever.

I mean, basketball fans will remember that for a long, long time. And I thought the other ones were really good moments, for sure. Isaiah Thomas with the 53 after the passing of his sister, John Wall's game winner. I mean, I honestly think I'll remember all of those things happening. Right? So I thought they did a pretty good job, at least whittling it down. to those playoff moments. Got no problem with the rant.

The sportsmanship award was Kimball Walker. I don't know. I mean, I guess great. I don't know. I don't know what a great sportsman is. And frankly, Kimball Walker, you know, one of the things, I don't even know if I've heard Kimball Walker. I couldn't tell you what his speaking voice sounds like until last night.

I mean he's just he's off the radar for the most part right but I was glad to see him get honored for being a great sportsman Kemba let's see what else we got all the other ones played the form didn't they Dan Tony knew he's going to get coach of the year uh rookie of the year brogden sixth man eric gordon most improved yonis defensive player of the year draymond MVP westbrook like there was no surprises from last night, would you say? Really no surprises at all. I had Igwadala over Gordon for six million of the year, but look, again, like it's the type of thing where between those guys, you could make a strong argument for Gordon, strong argument for Eagle Dalla. I wouldn't argue against the choice. It was right. You know, the one thing that I, the one award that they

gave out that I was like, oh, man, that's messed up, was they gave out the dunk of the year. And I love the Oladipo double pump from the baseline, right? the two-handed. I love it. But Larry Nance deserved that. Larry Nance straddling Brooke Lopez from like 20 feet away and then finishing that dunk. And Iron Eagle's call of it is unbelievable. Like Larry Nance, I thought, got robbed. That was like literally of the show last night, the only thing that I was like, oh, boo. That was the only award that was given out that I thought was a miscarriage of justice. I thought Larry Nance Jr.'s dunk should have been dunk in the year. I'm with you, Chris, totally. I mean, that tug was

unbelievable. That should have been a choice. I mean, everything from like the reaction, like you said, to the call, like, and that all plays a factor in like just how enjoyable it was. I'm surprised the Oladipo won out of those three choices. Even Levine's, I thought arguably could have been better than Oladipos, for that matter. Yeah, who's was Oladipo on? I can't remember. Who did he dunk on? I think it was Dwight. It was Dwight Howard, wasn't it? Yeah. It was on Dwight Howard, yeah. Okay. And Dwight is a good subject. There's no doubt about it, but I, I don't know, man. Brooke Lopez is a, he is a great dunk victim in my estimation, as is Alex Lynn. I mean, they're both big stiffs. I like the big stiffs getting dunked on the most because I think they take it the

worst, right? It's almost like Dwight, I don't know, it doesn't, I know he clearly gets dunked on, but I don't think he, I don't think it's as big of a massacre. And I don't believe it's his soul crushing as the other two. The other two would just be like, I mean, you just want to quit basketball when that crap happens to you. I think, I think part of it's just a lot of people just don't like Dwight Howard. So it made it more enjoyable for the fan side of things in some ways. That's fair. That's fair. All in all, I, I, will tell you that I was critical at first of the award show. I like the awards being announced during the course of the playoffs. You get all this extra motivation, the guys that feel snubbed.

There's the guy that won the MVP versus the guy that should have won the MVP, and then you get to watch them play each other in many cases. And so, but, and so it was going to be a couple weeks after the season ended. But there it was last night. Obviously, we've been doing the reads for it on this podcast. And so I went out of my way and I watched the thing last night. I settled in and watched it. And I will tell you, I thought it was much, much better than I thought it was going to be, much more entertaining than I thought it was going to be.

Drake is a really good host. I don't care what anybody says. The guy is a very good host. He's a very good entertainer. For a guy that's not his gig, he's great at delivering jokes. I kind of liked how they would throw it over to Ernie Kenny and Charles and Schack and those guys are always entertaining to me. The Nikki Minaj thing was weird just because, I mean, we got the Hardin meme out of it, right?

That was good because Hardin looked like he was willing to risk it all. It's like his eyes. He was in a trance. His eyes were popping out of his head. Nikki had that has that effect on him. But anyway, it's weird that they're set up. Like it's like a dinner theater. That's the effect on a lot of people.

Yeah. How about you? Are you a Nikki fan, Kev? Yeah, she's cool. Yeah? Would you risk it all, Kevin? What I give up that MVP award, though? It's weird to see Nikki Minaj perform, though, in front of like a dinner theater.

Like, that's how it feels with the tables that are all set up, and they're all just kind of drinking out of their glasses. It looks like they're all sitting down for dinner. And then here's Nikki Minaj performing on this stage. I'll tell you what, Chris. I didn't tune in until the end of the show, like when Russell Westbrook was having a speech because I was traveling home yesterday and I didn't get to watch it. So I've followed it through Twitter and I watched some YouTube highlights before doing the podcast today

just so I wouldn't be totally out of the loop. And like, I'm with you where like I didn't see it, but I get the vibe that a lot of people liked it. People seem pleasantly surprised. And I think that's a good thing going forward. The only issue people seem to have is the timing of it. Yeah. No, I was pleasantly surprised with the show. I thought the show was good.

And so there's a couple great moments in it. Obviously, the Hardin Minaj thing was great, just because that can become something that remains on the Internet. And that's what you need. You need those moments that will remain on the Internet. The other thing was they gave Bill Russell an award last night, and he went up there, and they've got five of the all-time great centers. They've got Alonzo Morning. They've got David Robinson.

they've got Kareembe Mutumbo. These guys are all up on the stage. And the first thing Russell does when he walks out. And we're going to make this the Captain Morgan moment of the week. Bill Russell last night walking up to the five great all-time centers that are up on stage to receive a legacy award walks up. And the first thing he says he gets into the microphone. First they give him his cane. And then he's, He leans into the microphone, and he points to each one of them, one at a time. And he said, I would kick your ass to all of them. And it was this.

And then he starts laughing. And it's this amazing moment. Like, he just totally won the award show. The place exploded. That's the Captain Morgan's moment of the week. No matter how you live like a captain, Captain Morgan reminds you to please drink responsibly, Captain's orders. I mean, listen, you know I can't get enough of Bill Russell.

I love Bill Russell and them with those big stars. And Kareem was the one that did most of the talking or almost all he did all the talking in giving him this award. And just seeing them being honored at like this whole NBA family thing they've got going. It was pretty special. And I love Bill. Bill Russell like for real thinks he could kick those guys' asses, which I love. I love that. My favorite moment of that was just Russell's laughter after saying that.

Like he knew he stole the show that that minute, that with that statement. And I honestly think if you could bottle up his laugh, like I feel like he could cure every disease. It is the best laugh in the world, man. It really is. And then so you have this funny moment that goes on. And then you have this insanely emotional moment, which is we've not heard much. There was a great Chris Ballard Sports Illustrated article written about Monty Williams, but you haven't heard much from Monty Williams since the tragic passing of his wife.

and then that unbelievable service that he did at the funeral. And so you have this moment last night where Craig Sager, they're giving away the Craig Sager Award last night, and they give it to Monty Williams, who goes up and he gives this. First, they honor Craig, and they show all kinds of different things about Craig's life. And they have done an amazing job with that. Like, they're not letting anyone forget about Craig Sager with this NBA family, with Turner, everybody.

And I love how they continue to honor him. And then you have this moment where Monty Williams gives up there, and he gives this speech about raising his kids after the passing of his wife. And he talks about the strength to go on or whatever. And so you have this moment with the Bill Russell. He makes me laugh. And then, like, it was almost impossible to keep a dry eye during this montage. of Monty Williams and you see all the other guys, like you see Durant crying about it and you see Popovich welling up with tears about it

and all these different, it was just, it was just this extremely heartfelt moment. And Monty Williams, by every account of everybody I know within the NBA, like people swear by him, Kevin. Like, you won't find anybody that will tell you Monty Williams is not a great guy. and so that whole thing playing out the way it did last night, I thought it was really special, and that doesn't happen unless you have a show like that last night.

Yeah, man, it was a beautiful moment, and it's always good to see things like that honored. You know, that show was strength, and just not only that, but the community of the NBA really coming together for someone going through a hard time. It was a really cool thing to say, see you in a really beautiful moment.

Yeah. So all in all, in between the moments that we got out of the show, and then I got to be honest, I thought Westbrook was great. I thought his speech was great last night. How his wife didn't cry was pretty unbelievable. I saw people applauding her females that I follow on Twitter for not allowing how strong she had to be not allowing her makeup to get messed up.

Right? She wasn't going to cry. And you get all dolled up for an event like that. You don't want to smear it everywhere just because your husband won the MVP. But in between him talking about his mother, his father. His brother. I mean, it was by far the realist Russell Westbrook has been. No question, right?

And I know a lot of people that have worked in Oklahoma City, and they swear by him. And we don't really get to see that, right, with the interactions with the media. He is not a media favorite by any means in terms of in the locker room. He's not the kind of guy that you go to to get a great quote. Most of it's, you know, the media feels like a nuisance to him, or that's how it comes off. But then last night when he gets this award, I thought to myself, you know what we should do, Kevin, in terms of media people wanting to get great quotes out of Russell Westbrook and have him, like somebody in the media should just hand him a trophy after every game and then let him talk.

He just hand the guy a trophy. He's unbelievable. Every time he gets a triple double after the game, he gets a trophy. Just hand him a trophy and then start asking him questions, Russell Westbrook. I thought he was good. I really did. I thought he was really good. By far, the most likable he has been in a talking setting. Yeah, it was like a nine-minute speech. So he made up for all the short answers he gave during the season in one moment. It was cool to see him get so real like that. Yeah. So that was good. So all in all, I thought the show was pretty good last night. We got to take a quick break to hear before one of our sponsor. When we come back,

Free Agency is kicking off this weekend. And we're going to talk about some of the big stories leading into free agency after these words. Today's podcast brought to you by Hotel Tonight. If you're like me, you're not so great of planning ahead, and I've got great news for you. There's an awesome app called Hotel Tonight that helps you find amazing hotel deals at the last minute. It sounds counterintuitive, but unlike flights, hotel rates usually get cheaper at the last minute. And Hotel Tonight helps hotels sell their unsold rooms, allowing them to pass those

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around the corner. I'm going to go through these guys one by one list of free agents, the big free agents, right? And we'll just try to burn through them and we'll talk about whether or not we think that they're going to go back to their team or we think they're going to end up somewhere else. And it gets dicey by the time I get to the third name. Okay. So top two are obviously Durant and Curry. I guess the big question with them is, do you think they one or both both take less than what they could get? Certainly they'll take less in years, but will they take less in terms of dollars in order to, it kind of felt like Iguadala was letting on that he was going to stay there and that there would be a press conference with all of them, which made me

think that they may sacrifice some money in order to try to keep their guys together and that that may be the play that Durant and Curry make. What do you think? I think Durant will. I mean, there's already been some rumblings about that anyway. And as for Stefan Curry, I haven't feeling he'll get the full max. Okay. So you think Curry's the one, well, his last contract, he's been the bargain in basketball by a very wide margin. Exactly. And they're going to make it up to him for Steve Kerr forgetting to mention him in their parade speech afterwards. He forgot to mention Steph Curry. Yeah, Steve Kerr forgot to mention Steph at the parade.

You didn't see that? Oh, no. Steve Kerr said he felt horrible about it. I missed that completely. So what better way to make it up than give him the full max? Yeah, right. All right. Now we get to the, now we're getting to the other names. Chris Paul. He was just named, right? President of the Players Association. He was the one that, you know, fought for that suit. There's so much going on here because there's a lot of people that think that he's got an interest in going somewhere else. I would be very shocked. I really would. After you fight for that deal that clearly benefits you, allowing, you know, to be an older age and still be eligible for a contract that runs longer.

I've got to believe that they would give him the full max. And so that being said, he'd be turning down a massive amount of money to go elsewhere. And being that he is the leader of the Players Association, I think I'd be very surprised that Paul's not a clipper. What say you? I have a hard time with this one, Chris. I really do because I wonder how much of his decision has to do with what Blake and and JJ Reddick do.

And if they leave, will he be more likely to leave? Or if they leave, will the clippers be more willing to be like, hey, we'll give you a no trade clause. Please stay. Please stay. I don't know. I don't know which way I lean with Chris Paul. Part of me thinks he's just going to end up staying. Just going to stay in L.A.

and then try to make their push for LeBron next year. So I would lean towards him staying. But at the same time, like I think Spurs Rockets, both of them will come hard. And you know he's got so much going on right there. He's like to face of state farm. And he's got real endorsing. Paul does. And the other thing is Jerry West is now a consultant. I cannot fathom a scenario where Jerry West thinks we don't need that guy, right? Of all the guys that you don't need there,

like if you have, if Blake goes somewhere else, I kind of think Blake might go somewhere else. And that, because he's been injured the last couple of years. I mean, they've clearly gotten by without him. Yet they have had a very difficult time getting by as a very good team without Chris Paul. So I think the value there is we just bring back Chris Paul and then if Blake goes, he goes. And then they can amp up for maybe next offseason. I'm with you.

I think Paul is one of those top 50 all-time players that you don't want to let go of. My concern would be is if he does demand a no trade clause, do you really want to give that to him with a five-year full max deal? That gets difficult. I don't know if he will demand the no-trade clause, but at the same time, it would make sense for him to do it, considering the clippers are kind of in a potential transition phase. And if you really do want

to stay there, then you want the no trade. I just don't know if I'd feel comfortable giving that if I'm the clippers. Yeah, it would be just so much more money. That's why I don't think he's going to go anywhere. But, because you've got to take that into consideration when you're talking about a lot of these things. The next guy we're going to

talk about, it's not that much more money if he stays where he is. And that's Gordon Hayward. And we talk about this a couple of weeks ago, if Hayward goes elsewhere and does the short contract and then re-ups, it is a minimal difference between the maximum amount of money he could make over the course of the next eight years. I can't act like I can get inside Gordon Hayward's mind. People that cover that team and know that team say that, you know, the guys he rolls with are like George Hill and Joe English,

which they're both free agents too, you know, in terms of like guys that would be able to recruit him back. You know, like, you know, because that matters. You do need guys that can recruit you back to say like, hey, you know, we want to build this together. We really want you back. I know they're doing the campaign and they really want him back and they're trying to make him feel loved in Utah.

But I think he may go somewhere. What do you think? Hayward. I think he'll probably leave. Yeah. But at the same time, at the same time, I wouldn't be surprised that he signed like a one-in-one to go back to Utah for a year and try to get on the all NBA team so he can get the Supermax. That wouldn't stun me either. But I ultimately think he'll leave Miami, Boston, those two

destinations. He can compete for a title and still get paid big money. All right. What I'm going to do is go through these 10 biggest names that are entering free agency or free agents this offseason. And then we'll talk about some guys that are a little off the radar that I'm interested in seeing what they're going to do. Millsap, this one's interesting, right? I don't think Atlanta's going to give him the four. full max. What do you think? Atlanta should have blown it up. Miss their chance. Blow it up.

Blow it up. All right. So you think Millsaps going to get big money, but it's not going to be at Atlanta. I just don't think he's going to, I don't know. I think the time there's done. I don't think they're going to max him out. And if given a choice, if you're Paul Millsap, again, are you making a money decision and are you leaving a lot on the table to go elsewhere? I don't know. I don't think he's going to have to leave a lot on the table to go elsewhere and to go to possibly a better situation, right? I like Denver for Millsap.

There was the report the other day that the Nuggets will chase Paul Millsap and Blake Griffin. I don't really see Blake going to Denver, but Millsap would make a lot of sense for their roster. It would make a hell of a lot more sense than trading a bunch of good assets for Kevin Love. That's her damn sure. I don't get that. I wouldn't get trading for Kevin Love when signing Paul Millsap could be an option. You have been very hard, I don't want to say hard, maybe hard stretching it, but you have been, I think you've been hesitant to buy into future Blake Griffin, right? You have chronicled his many, many injuries, many of them different over the course of the past several years. Many people have brought up Amari Stottomire when it comes to Blake, that you're just looking at the new Stadamire and it's not going to be, he's not going to be able to hold up for an extended amount of time.

his best days are behind him. But those guys are both right there entering free agency in Blake Griffin and Paul Millsap. Which would you rather have? Blake. I'd rather have Blake. And I am just completely fascinated to see what he gets to summer, Chris, because I've talked to a lot of different people just to try to figure out like what the sense is Blake could receive this summer.

And a lot of people don't think he's going to get the full max. So they don't think the clippers will offer the full five-year max. They don't think some opponent teams will offer, even the full four-year max, which would be around, I think, I believe, up the top of my head, maybe $128 million, $127 million, something like that. So maybe Blake ends up getting like four years 110 or four years 100, something like that instead, less than the max. So look, I think Blake is a better player than Milt Sap. He's a better player than Gordon Hayward. The only thing holding Blake back is the injuries. And that's why, like, I'm so interested to see if a team.

team takes that gamble on him because he provides higher upside for your team. And despite the injury risk, I don't know. Like, you could end up screwing yourself. You mentioned Amari Stodomeyer, and it's certainly possible that he is the next Amari. But at the same time, man, like, if he has a healthy year, maybe he's what gets you over the edge and gives you actually a chance at the Warriors. Well, the other thing is he's younger, right? I mean, though he is at the injuries, he's younger than Millsap, right? Yeah, he is younger. Blake's 28 right now.

What's Millsap? 32, I believe. 32, yeah. All right, so you've got four years, difference. So you'd rather have Blake, I would to. I kind of think he may be on a different team. I think Paul will be with the Clippers, and I think because they have been able to win without Blake,

that, again, we're talking about the money decisions, and you said you don't think he's going to get the full max. So at that point, right, We know the hometown teams that that's the punitive measure, that you have to turn down a lot of money to go play somewhere else if they're going to throw a max deal at you. You have to leave a lot of money on the table, and 99% of these guys are unwilling to do that.

And in these two cases that we just spoke of, I don't think Millsap, I don't think Atlanta will offer him the full, therefore making the decision may not be, you may not have a big money decision to make. And I think the same could absolutely be true with Blake. And then at that point, you are, if you're taking that out of the equation, and that usually is the biggest priority for these guys, because it's very hard to look at one contract that pays you $50 million more dollars than the other one, or even $25 more million than the other one,

if the numbers are going to be close, and it seems like in a lot of these scenarios, the numbers can be close, that's where I can see these guys switching teams. But, again, I don't know them personally. I don't know what motivates them the most. I don't know in somebody like Blake Griffin's case if he just really wants to stay in Los Angeles.

I'm just saying it feels like these two big-time players, money is not going to be a massive factor, right? It's possible. You know what thoughts on mind, Chris? This is what I'm writing about for tomorrow with the Spurs is. Wouldn't Blake be interested for San Antonio? Like in an offense where the ball moves side to side, where he could get more ball handling opportunities.

Like if they were to trade Aldridge and then fill the Aldridge cap space with Blake Griffin, I mean, doesn't that make some sense? Like he could play that point role for them with Tony Parker out. I just think Blake would be really, really cool in San Antonio. I think Popovich could maybe unlock him. And you talk about him next to Kauai. You want to talk about athletic. Those two.

Unbelievable. Yeah. One of the biggest disappointments in recent league history is Doc Rivers is just misuse of Blake Giffin. I would love to see him in San Antonio. Charks wrote about it being a point guard today. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, me and Charks are really on the same page with Blake. I don't know about full-time point guard, but like I wrote a thing last year for like Doc Rivers he could use. Blake more, you know, stagger his minutes with Chris Paul and use him more as a point when Paul's off the floor and like run more pick and roll with DeAndre Jordan. That's like exactly what Charks was getting at. Like with today's article, it's just like he's capable of more as a point guard, more as a ball handler. So make him a power guard. Make him a point forward. Put the ball in his hands and let him do what he does best. And I think he could do that in San Antonio. I think he could

do that in Boston. And that's what I, I can't get that thought out of my mind with Blake Griffin that he could be even better than he's been with the clippers that he he has another level that the clippers really didn't let him reach and it's not really doc's fault or anything else it's the fact that he played with one of the greatest point guards of all time and chris paul so in another another situation he could reach that next level i i just feel like it's there i could be wrong but i would love to see love to see a team try it out at least yeah for anybody that wants to go check that out jonathan charles wrote it on the ringer dot com today seriously let blake griffin play garden. He said if you're going to give Griffin a contract north of 100 million, why keep him

trapped in the box that has limited him for years? So you and you and Charks obviously preaching the same gospel on under thoughts on Griffin. The next guy that we need to talk about is very fascinating and that is Kyle Lowry. Now the rumors were all that Kyle doesn't want to go back and that he's going to go somewhere else. He kind of shot them down via Twitter and said I didn't say that stuff. And so we will find out. Now, you were, and this is where this all started with the Toronto, blow it up. This is where you became Kevin Obama wanting to get rid of the, you wanted to bomb out the Toronto Raptors. That being said, and I posted this, I don't know, it was a couple weeks ago when Bruce Arthur, the outstanding column is out of Toronto, put a column up about everything going on with Lowry.

It coincided with Griffin getting ousted in Cleveland, and a lot of people around the league think that LeBron could go elsewhere. Now, do you then, Kevin, change your opinion a little bit if we think that there is a good possibility that LeBron James is not wearing a Cleveland jersey and that the prospective destinations for him seem to be Western Conference teams that maybe your window extends if you are someone like Toronto. And so don't blow it up because your year to be able to get to the NBA finals might just be a year away once LeBron is no longer in the Eastern Conference. What do you think?

It might change a little bit there, but the blow it up plan for me, like with the Raptors would be you bring back Kyle Lowry, you see how the season goes and maybe you trade them in February. I mean, you don't want to lose them for nothing. right? I'd rather have Laueri than DeRosen. I would. I would, too.

Derosin's the one I'd trade. I'm with you. I think DeRosen, like, there's always a chance. He extends his range to three. And if he does, he's going to be unbelievable. But he has yet to prove, like, eight, nine years in his career that he can. So I think until he does that, it's going to be problematic for him to score efficiently in the playoffs.

And you're not going to win in the playoffs unless you score efficiently in the half court. And the thing for Lowry, Chris, is like, where is he going to go? Like, what team actually needs a point guard and what team needs a max point guard and that's 32 years old? That's where I have a hard time finding another spot for Kyle Lowry. Like, who would need him? Well, he would just be taking less money to go elsewhere, right? When you're talking about the San Antonio's of the world.

I mean, Tony Parker's not getting any younger. Patty Mills will probably get a lot of money. Or if Chris Paul leaves, then the Clippers need a point guard. Right? I mean, I don't. Yeah, there's not. Not a lot of spots. Minnesota maybe if they trade Rubio and open up some cap space.

Well, yeah, and by the way, Kyle Lowry is awesome. You know what I mean? Yeah, he's awesome. He's awesome. He's awesome. And I think he's a bulldog and you can win with the guy like that. So DeRosa would be the guy. Also, the next name I'm going to get to, I would not pay Ibaka a lot of money.

I know you traded for him, but if I'm Toronto, I'd let him walk. I don't, I don't, I would not spend a ton of money. on Serge Abaka. I've never been a huge fan. All of my media friends always loved Serge Abaka, talked about him being the third guy in Oklahoma City. I've always thought he was overrated, and the defensive numbers didn't even hold up last year when he's playing in Orlando or Toronto. He is not the, quote, defensive force he used to be. I just, I mean, I would not spend a lot of money on Sergei Baca. What about you? I wouldn't either. I have a feeling he's somebody that a team out there will overpay though.

It just seems like that type of guy. We're like, oh yeah, maybe we can turn him into what he used to be in Oklahoma City five years ago when really it's like, no, chances are he is who he is now. Defense has regressed, rebounding has regressed. Scoring has improved from three-point range, but at the same time, he's still not a knockdown guy. I think he Baca is a good player, but he doesn't deserve to be paid like a great player, which he could be.

Well, and imagine how many, you know how many open shows? shots guys get when they're playing with great players, right? When you're playing with John Wall or you're playing with Russell Westbrook or whatever. Abaka was in a situation for the first whole part of his career. He was playing with two of the best players ever, literally ever in Westbrook and Durant. And at some point he had Hardin on his team. And other points, they always had another third guy, third guard, whether it was, you know, Kevin Martin or whether it was Reggie Jackson or whoever it was, right, another perimeter guy. Dionne waiters for a spell there.

And so I just think that he was always, the more attention you give Serge Baca is the less good he is going to be. And I felt like he thrived because of the situation he was in. That was my opinion. He's not a great rebounder either, right? I mean, I need a guy that's going to go in there like, you know, snatch me rebounds. He might also not be 27 years old. So you need to factor that into the equation, too.

Just saying. Fair enough. All right, we got two more to get to. Big free agent names. George Hill. Where are we at on George Hill? I like George Hill. Do you like George Hill?

I think he's middle of the pack, right? Starter. Yeah. Yeah. Do I feel good with George Hill going up again? Right. You got to think when it comes to big playoff series, how far down the list do I have to get to before I feel like I have an advantage at point guard?

It's pretty far, dude. You know what I mean? It's probably not playoff teams. The question I always ask myself for the guy like George Hill is, who is going to be the team that overpays? Like, who is it going to be? Right?

Because there always seems to be one of those teams out there that has cap space. They want to make a push for the playoffs. And they just overpay like crazy for one of these guys. And I just wonder, who will that be for George Hill? Because like we said with Lowry, there's not a lot of teams that need a point guard.

So I don't know. know. I mean, there was a report earlier this week, or last week, rather, that George Hill and the Spurs have mutual interest in a reunion. Maybe the Spurs could get him for a fair price, and he could kind of be a stop gap until Derek White and DeJante Murray are ready. That's always a possibility. I would like him with San Antonio. But will a team just overwhelm him with a ridiculous offer somewhere out there on the market? I don't know. But there always seems to be a guy that does get that type of money. Would you rather have, and this is the last name, would you rather have George Hill? or Drew Holiday. I think this is a good argument. Do I have a third option? I'm looking for a way out, Chris. All right, here.

I'm going to give you, let's just say they'd both take the same contract, and I'm going to give you whatever, $80 million. And you can give it to one or the other one. Who would you give it to? Oh, man. I think both of them, I mean, they're so similar in the sense that they both suffered, like, injuries over the, their career too. I know it. I think I'd go with Drew Holiday because he's younger. Four years younger.

Maybe he theoretically has some room to improve, whereas George Hill is a little bit closer to the wall for a point guard at 31 years old. So Drew Holiday, because of the youth factor, four years younger, might have a little bit more room to grow. All right, let's get the four other names that I jotted down that I'm super interested to see where they end up. Two of them are Spurs. Patty Mills and Jonathan Simmons. Patty Mills is not going to be a starter, right? Like, I don't think, I don't think, I think it'd be miscast for somebody to take Patty Mills and try to make him their starter. But he is the best backup there is outside. I mean, maybe if you want to argue Sean Livingston and Golden State, but he's up there. In a league

that is not filled with great backup point guards. Patty Mills is a great change of pace player to bring off your bench and has been very good for the Spurs for a long, long time. This might be a good payday for him. You think he makes a ton? Do you think he gets a big contract? I do. But here's the thing. If I'm one of the 29 other teams in the league, I'm thinking to myself, like, when is

the last time a spur left the spurs and been good somewhere else? I mean, look at their free agents. Maybe Corey Joseph. Cory Joseph. Yeah, Corey Joseph has been solid, but he hasn't really necessarily elevated his game. Stephen Jackson way back in 2003. It was better when he left. But you look at other guys like Gary Nail, DeWan Blair, Ian Mahoney, Aaron Baines, Boban.

It's like they have a long list of guys who have left through free agency and they haven't really panned out elsewhere. Remember the Splitter deal? Remember the Splitter deal? People thought that that was a good deal for Atlanta. You haven't heard Tiago Splitter's name in three years. Splitter got hurt, but even him, like, even with opportunity, you're right. Like he hasn't even been quite the same either.

So I don't know. There's a long list of spurs that have left and they haven't been able to produce at the same level and other destinations. So if I'm a team looking at Dwayne Deadbin or Patty Mills or Jonathan Simmons, I'm thinking about that a little bit. Obviously, these guys are independent players and history necessarily doesn't matter for them. But at the same time, I do think it is a thought that has to run through your mind at least a little bit. Because when you're evaluating the spurs, you're evaluating these guys in the best possible situation they can be in. So it's just something to think about Super interesting on somebody like Simmons Because he was a big breakout in the playoffs

I mean he was great Great He came out of nowhere Yeah for sure He's old too He'll be 28 next season What? It's not like he's only 24 years old

Yeah he'll be 28 next year I had no idea that Jonathan Simmons was 28 Here's the other thing with Simmons man He's really good Yeah he'll be 28 next year He came out of nowhere. The other thing with Simmons, man, is like, as good as he was in the playoffs, he's still not like a great shooter.

I mean, you look at his numbers with the Spurs. You look at his numbers prior to his time with the Spurs. He's never been really a knockdown three-point shooter, whether it's in the D-League or in college basketball or that with the Spurs. It's like, I don't know. I mean, maybe you're paying for something that you're not actually going to get. Next guy, do you think Dionne Waiters is wearing a heat jersey next year? Do you think Dion Waders gets a massive deal from somebody?

Give him the max. Give him the max. Do it, Brooklyn. Do it. Give him the max. They say, listen, we tried this crap with Tyler Johnson last year and you matched. Watch this. And they throw it at Dion Waders.

Let it be the king of Brooklyn. That would be fun. That would be terrific. Give him like 20 shots a game. You think he gets a big? deal. I think there's an argument to be made that he deserves one. And here's why, Chris, because we have this perception of him as just this like terrible bust, you know, that was in Cleveland and Oklahoma City. But maybe he actually did breakthrough last year at Miami. What if that

was a breakthrough season and that he's still capable of replicating that with an even larger role? What if he is? Then what does he deserve? You know, if that's the truth. Because he could have just been a late bloomer in the NBA. And at 25, 26 years old now, he's about to enter his prime. You're paying for future production. And maybe Dion Waiters could be the guy that we saw last year in Miami. He's got 40% from three at a pretty good volume. He was in his clutch, clutchless player in basketball, according to himself, at least.

He was really good. He was really good. Last one was another name that I like, which is that Toronto guy. I don't know why. I've always just had a soft spot. and I know he stunk in the playoffs, but Patrick Patterson, I think that's a good value for somebody. Patterson, I think he's a good rotation guy to have.

It feels like his value got really dinged. I thought he was a guy that was going to be headed to making a lot of money this particular offseason, and then he just did not have the season that you want for a contract year or a playoffs that you want for a contract year. But I could see him getting in really good shape and being a really good value for somebody. That's what I think.

Would you rather have him back than Sergei Baca if you're the Raptors? Yes. I think I would too. For the price? For the price. For the price too. Yep. Yeah.

He's really, really good. I like Patterson a lot. Yeah. And I don't think he had a big enough year that he's going to get, that people are going to have to shell out for him. And so I think he was one of the names. I wrote that Dion Waders, Patty Mills, Jonathan Simmons, Patrick Patterson,

some interesting names. Like those are guys, all four of them. I think could be really good rotation guys for teams and could really help the cause. We see so many, because it's so hard to like whittle through. And there's a lot, as we know, there's going to be a lot of bums, get money, a lot of money,

thinking from these teams that think they can really be helped. I actually think those are four free agents that, like they could actually change things for a team, change the trajectory of whatever the team would be. because in Patterson and I'm sorry, Patterson and Mills case, those guys like, they can win on a second unit for you, right? They can, like, so many of these teams, we saw it. You're having to spend so much on your starting lineups

that your bench just sucks, but those guys can, you know, really, they can give you something between those two. And I think Patterson is a bad spot. Remember you gave that stat out about Toronto having, like, the least assist in the history of the war? world throughout the season. A guy was give Toronto players a pass. Wasn't that the stat?

The least assist ever? Yeah, it was some assist-related stat. I forget. The season was a blur, Chris. Well, let's just say that. It's serious hyperbole, but I'm just going to stick with that. Kevin O'Connor said that Toronto had the least assist of in the history of the world. in soccer too in every sport not just basketball is Kevin O'Connor for the ringer.com

What'd you say you're going to be writing this week? I'm writing something about the spurs, what they might do, what they should do, why they should go for Blake Griffin. That's kind of going to be the focus. All right. So you think that all these reports about them going or that may be mutual interest with one clipper, you're going to swerve and say the other one is. the one to get. Yeah. What I'm proposing is like just go you're going for the wrong

clipper. Don't pay Chris Paul 34 million. Pay Blake like 25 instead. Trade with Marcus Aldridge and shuffle the deck. That's my proposal. I'll be reading it. I think the spurs should blow it up personally. But that's neat. Blow it up there. Blow it up, Bob. Blow it up, Barcy. He is Kevin O'Connor from the ringer.com. If you dig what you're hearing, that's going to do it for another ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, give us a rating and review on iTunes and we will talk to you next week. Thanks, Kev. Thanks, Chris. See you.