The Ringer NBA Show - NBA Cup Thunder Takeaways and New All-Star Format With Tyler Parker. Plus, Mac McClung on the G-League, ‘The Break,’ and His Dunk Contest Future. | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

Howard Beck is joined by The Ringer’s Tyler Parker to discuss the NBA Christmas Day schedule and why the Thunder are not playing that day (5:30). Then they discuss Tyler’s experience at the NBA Cup and whether he had any takeaways from the Thunder’s Finals loss against the Bucks. They wrap up by comparing this iteration of the Thunder to past teams (39:00) and quickly giving their thoughts on the new All-Star game format (1:06:10). Howard is then joined by two-time NBA dunk contest champion and reigning G-League MVP Mac McClung to get into his experiences as a two-way player on the Orlando Magic (1:17:24). They also talk about what it’s like to have that documented on “The Break”. Mac later touches on whether he’ll be defending his dunk contest title again. Host: Howard Beck Guests: Tyler Parker and Mac McClung Producer: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? Chris Vernon here and welcome to a new season of the NBA and the mismatch. And huge welcome as well to my new co-host, Dave Jacoby. I can't wait to link with you twice a week every Tuesday and Friday right here on the mismatch to break down everything that's happening in the league. Who's playing well, who we loved, who we loathed, trade rumors, team dysfunction. We've got you covered right here. So follow us, subscribe and hit us with those five-star ratings on Spotify or wherever you get your. your podcast. And also don't forget to follow us on social media. That's at Ringer NBA. And check out the full mismatch episodes with the two handsomest podcasters in the history

of podcasting right on the Ringer NBA YouTube channel. It's the real ones. Now we're back to senior writer at the Ringer. Happy holidays, everybody. Rajah is off doing dad things at a basketball tournament with his son. So hanging out with me today, one of my favorite Ringer people. You might know him as Parker Tau. Miles, vagabond journeyman Hooper. You might know him as the intrepid reporter who got the one and only exclusive interview with the bat who got swatted by Monogynobly years ago. You might know him as the world's foremost authority on arena toilets. Can't wait to get into that.

Or just as a super talented writer who always finds a unique angle on whatever he happens to be exploring that day. The pride of Oklahoma. Tyler Parker, welcome to the real ones, sir. dude Howard it's an honor what an intro i feel like i should just bow out now because stanza style but uh no i'm i'm stoked to be here thank you for having me i apologize to all the real ones listeners for not being raja um it's it's it's fine uh they get plenty of raja and um i don't know if they've had uh parker tiles or tyler parker yeah have you been on the real ones before No, never.

No, Logan's never had you on? No, I've screamed at him about that. I've called him names. But no, he, we do, we do, we do have something in the can where Logan might be making an appearance on the new Parker Tiles. But we, but that's, you know, we've, I've not had the pleasure of being on the real ones until today. So I'm welcome. Very excited. Thank you. Shame on us for not having you sooner.

It's okay. A quick programming note before Tyler and I dive into everything else. The G-League Winter Showcase, big event going on right now in Orlando. Lots of big NBA events this week. NBA Cup, Winter Showcase. That's going on in Orlando through the weekend. And among the players there is two-time NBA dunk champion Mack McClung, who had the chance to chat with for a bit.

That interview is at the end of today's episode. So stay tuned for that after Tyler and I are done. really fun catching up with Mac McClung, talked about just the G-League life and being on a two-way, trying still, of course, to find his footing in the NBA permanently. And is he going to defend his don't title again?

I might have asked. All right, we are recording on Friday the 20th. This is our last show before Christmas. We'll be back on next Friday, the 27th. Huge Christmas slate coming up. which just got me thinking, Parker. I don't know if, Tyler, I'm going to do them. I'm going to, I'm going to interchish, Parker,

and Tyler Parker just freely throughout this, by the way. I'm happy to just be him for the pot if you'd like. Did Parker tiles ever play on Christmas? Probably only in like some tiny town in the south of France or something. Yeah, no, and he was devastated by that. He was really, really frustrated that there wasn't more press coverage. Tyler, one of the big, any Christmas traditions in the, in the Parker household, I know we talked before we started recording, you're going to go back to Oklahoma, where you're from. We're going to talk a lot about Oklahoma City and the Thunder in this, in this show.

Are there, are there, what are the standing important, like traditions, either now or growing up? You know, we always used to go, we always used to drive into Muskogee and go to the Garden of Lights. that they have there at Honor Heights Park. And yeah, it's just kind of like you see in a lot of other gardens and stuff like that where they've got little light displays throughout. We used to always do that. Go get some ice cream at Brahms, things like that. Nothing too sexy, nothing too strange.

Sounds nice. Yeah, that's good. No, it was great. It was, you know, you turn your radio to a certain dial, They've got the songs already pre-programmed for you while you're going through there. So it's nice. Yeah, they do a lot of the work for you. Very cool.

Very nice. Huge slate of games. I don't know if you will just be parked with the family watching 15 straight hours of NBA games. Starting with Spurs Knicks, then Timberwolves Mavericks, Sixers, Celtics, Lakers, Warriors. Curry versus LeBron. Like, is this, I don't know if this is the last Christmas we'll get with them. We're getting close. And then Nuggett's suns capping off the whole night.

Notably absent from this slate of games are your Oklahoma City Thunder, Tyler. How are you feeling about the Christmas slate? And as an Oklahoman, what is your level of just absolute disgust grievance with the NBA for not putting the thunder on Christmas? It actually, it's on a serious note. Like it is it is kind of a thing. Like we are still in this mode where it feels like the NBA does not want to fully invest in certain small market teams on certain marquee occasions. They will be mad about me saying that. But, you know, we all knew this was going to be the best team in the West coming into the season.

I think that's the weirdest part is like it's not as if they were a surprise. It's not like when the, you know, a couple years ago when the Grizzlies all of a sudden are kind of, you know, dynamized. and up at the top of the West and people maybe didn't think that. Like it, they were the one seed in the West last year. Everybody knew they were going to be better. Everybody knew they'd added Caruso and Hartenstein and that they just projected to go up a notch.

You know what I mean? So, yeah, when the slate dropped, I was pretty, it's one of those things like you're surprised. And at the same time, you're like, well, of course, that's how they operate. I mean, it was, it was a minute, I think, before even those Russ KD teams. you know, and they had sort of more immediate wattage than this current Thunder team.

Like it was even a minute before they kind of started acknowledging them as like a thing. You know what I mean? So it's, I think it's stupid. I think it's not good for the league to not highlight the best teams that you have, the best talent and product that you have on the floor. I think that that's small market or not. I think it's just a little bit foolish. And yeah, they've kind of, they've done some strange stuff.

I mean, before the final of the in-season tournament, or the NBA Cup, rather, excuse me. Apologies to Emirates. And before that, like the NBA, like I saw in a tweet, I think, did like a little you know, get to know Shea kind of thing. And it's like, hey, y'all shouldn't really feel the need to do this. Like, this is an all NBA dude. Like, that you think that it's necessary is showing that y'all have not invested enough in making sure that the public is aware of this guy.

And, yeah, I think it's, I think it's ridiculous. But I also, it wasn't, um, You know, your jaw's not on the floor, right? Like, this is how the league operates. You know, it, it, uh, they're pushing Wimby, you know, they, they, I think they knew the spurs weren't going to be that good this year, but they're pushing Wimby hard. And so they're going to put them there. They're very invested in Anthony Edwards, like an American star on the come up.

So they're going to have them there, you know, the sons, the warriors, the Lakers, the Mavs, like these are all, you know, large market teams with some wattage behind them that is either still earning that wattage or is coasting off what they've done in the past. You know what I mean? But it wasn't something that blew me away, but it was definitely disappointing. I will say like in the league's like partial defense here. And I used to back when I had my podcast, the full 48 back at Bleacher Report, I started this tradition of every August, I would bring on Evan Washington, Tom Corelli, the schedule makers,

the schedule czars as I dubbed them. And we would deep dive on like how you built this. And I would tweak them on behalf of various fan bases. Why do you guys hate Toronto? You know, because Raptors fans were always been out of shape during those years that they weren't getting on Christmas. And we would go through it. And there's a little bit of both art and science to this whole thing. And in the NBA's defense, like there's a lot of considerations and so some of it is yes who do you want to promote some of it is like the nicks have just become a standard on christmas like that's just it's like you know the lions and and cowboys on uh thanksgiving in the NFL right right um and you know that the garden's always going to be a great atmosphere so there's that um the rest of it it's it's a lot of like you're

you're pretty much always going to have lebron in the lebron era right and you're always going to have step in the steff era and you're now they're playing each other and I don't blame them for that at all. Like wherever those teams happen to be right now, like, like, yes, by all means, these are these standard bearers of your league and have been for the last, you know, decade plus. Sure. I'm fine with that.

Kevin Durant is part of that generation too, like the guys who are starting to age out and who we may not have for much more than another year or two, three at most. I get all that. And to their credit, yes, Mavericks, Luca. Like perennial MVP candidate. He's on there. Celtics defending champs on there. Wembe, of course.

And the wolves, you mentioned at the Edwards. So like there's, there is some, there are small markets represented here. There are younger stars represented on this slate. But yes, it still feels like an oversight to not have the team that had the most wins in the West that was widely favored to win the West. And has the guy who finished what, second, I think, an MVP voting. voting last season in Shea. And was first, I mean, the first team all NBA. I think like it, I think the weird thing for me is like, if Shea was American, they'd be

playing on Christmas. That's kind of how I feel, honestly. That little, that little line we draw right at the top of the U.S. there between here and Canada. Like, it's, it's funny because he's the one guy of all the, like we keep talking about all the international players. If you didn't know that Shea was Canadian, you wouldn't know that Shea was Canadian. Totally, totally. Not in the same way you know that Yolkic and Donchich or Yonis are from somewhere else.

So this is not to dismiss any subtle differences between the U.S. and Canada or not so subtle differences. I don't want to piss off Canada. Oh, no, I love our neighbors to the north. Yeah, it's, I've thought before, and I'm sure other people have brought this up, but part of me thinks, like, in the way that, you know, NFL will kind of flex certain games and things like that. like I almost wonder if you can have a set sort of schedule like, okay, these teams are playing on Christmas. But hey, Sixers, if you're absolutely garbage, then you might not get to, like if it's not a Sixers home game or something like that.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Because sometimes when a team has just shit the bed, frankly, in a certain season and not wound up where everyone thought they were going to be like made total sense at the beginning of the year to have them in that slot. But now it's just a little anticlimactic there. You know what I mean? And so I, it, I'm sure that's not possible for the schedules are. I'm sure that there are a number of factors that I'm not considering. But you'd like to see them be able to be a little bit more adaptable to make sure

that all the games that they are going to be showing are games with like the potential to be compelling. You know what I mean? It, uh, yeah. They're making a bet in August, right? Like, the schedule is built and they actually, they work on this for, for months even preceding that. Like, it's a really complex process. And if there's arena availability issues and, of course, you have to balance the schedule with, you know, X number of games against all your opponents. And now you've got the NBA Cup, uh, which, which presents, you know, another set of variables and challenges. and they have to be flexible around the Cups of my finals and final because they don't know who's going to be in it, right? Totally.

Trying to flex games on Christmas, I think, would be incredibly difficult, if not impossible. So I get it. But yeah, the Thunder probably should have been there from the beginning. And the Sixers, who could have known that Joel and Beat and Ball George would get hurt? It really did come out of nowhere. Maybe that's just not a bet you should make. Maybe play the odds with certain stars. who are always injured and don't bank on them bringing in the eyeballs on Christmas.

I don't know. That feels like nitpicking to an extent. No, I hear you. But your thunder did get some shine this week. Yes. They were in the final of the NBA Cup, which they lost to the Milwaukee Bucks. And I don't want to dwell too much on the NBA Cup myself. People who are wonderful fans who listen to and our listeners who listen to this podcast

have heard me plenty on the NBA Cup. some of them are very supportive of my skeptical agnosticism, as I call it. Some of them are tired of hearing it. But Tyler, you were there. I was not. I watched from the couch. You were in Vegas. You wrote about it on the ringer.com.

People should go check that out. And you were just immersing yourself in the atmosphere of it all and just kind of try to take it in and assess like what, what, what is this thing? your main takeaway your impressions after what four or five days in Vegas from the semifinals through the final um what did you walk away feeling about the cup and the whole event i i would say i'm leaning towards your skeptical you know agnostic kind of vibe to be honest with you the it's the weird thing is that the basketball up until the final when the thunder just got roasted right but like the basketball up until then was very good.

And both semifinals were hotly contested, like teams actually guarding and really getting down and making things, you know, like the games were in question late, right? Like there were plenty of opportunities for the crowd to get into it. Because it's at a neutral court and because it's at a time where a lot of people are about to be traveling for the holidays and probably can't, you know, hop on another plane this quickly, sort of out of nowhere, or not out of nowhere, but you don't know if your team's going to make it or not, right? So it's kind of, you have, making people have to be flexible with their travel arrangements and things like that, plus it being at a neutral court, not as many fans of the teams are going to be there. And so there was just a lack of energy sometimes in the building that was at odds with what was happening on the court.

You know what I mean? Like, I, there would be a number of times when, you know, you're watching a game and you're feeling like a big play happens and you're sort of expecting a big pop from the crowd. And they're just, sometimes there just wouldn't, or it wouldn't be as much as you thought it would be, you know what I mean? it felt it felt um it almost felt like kind of an aAU sort of set up in a way where there's like there are these the fans or the the the teams do have fans there but not so many fans that there it's ever going to be like the roof's coming off the place yeah and that was kind of

the vibe that i had there it just was it never the atmosphere itself never uh got in concert with the product on the floor in the way that I think you would want if you're trying to make this tournament a big thing. Because the fans matter. Like you talked about the Knicks playing at MSG on Christmas. Like when there's a big time game happening in MSG and both teams are in it and it's like things are really cooking,

you feel that in the crowd and that elevates the viewing experience. It makes everything more intense and more intense. exciting and not having that for any of the three games there it just it it it made it feel like something was missing the whole time there was it just it was something was always felt like it was off by a half you know um it uh like i wonder if they part of the thing that i i think i mentioned in the piece or it might have got cut but like trying to experiment maybe with like maybe the semis are home games for whichever, you know, team has the better record or, you know,

it, to try to do something to, um, sort of gift the fans of these teams too. You know what I mean? Like, and, and to elevate the stakes a little bit.

It, uh, yeah, it just, there was something a little sleepy about the whole thing. Yeah. And that came across on TV. I'm watching from my couch and it was, some people compared it to,

to Summer League, but I would actually say a defensive summer league, like, especially the first weekend of Summer League, those crowds are freaking awesome. Now, credit, credit, it's a smaller arena. They're right on top of the court. And, and especially that first weekend, because that, Thomas and Mac is just packed, Cox Pavilion, of course, even more so because it's tiny. And those are people who don't get to see the NBA very much and they're, you know, getting in for pretty cheap. And it's a really raucous time at times of Summer League. I was thinking more, it was almost like kind of like the first COVID year where they came back, but arenas weren't allowed to have full capacity yet. And so it was a little sedate or more like an all-star crowd. Like when I go to

NBA All-Star weekend, All-Star crowds are pretty sedate, right? Like even with something exciting happens, it's kind of like golf collapse. So there's never really a roar. And I don't know. So that's what came across on TV to me. And it matters, right? Because like for somebody who has been in the skeptical camp with this, again, I'm not anti-cup. I'm just. not entirely sold. Enthusiasm is the thing that that counters whatever skepticism I have, right? If the players are enthused, Yadis certainly was. Like the box wanted this.

Yadis clearly freaking wanted this. Yeah. That matters a lot. And then the fans are the other part. So there has to be an emotional investment. It has to feel like the stakes are real. And the players showed that, but you didn't have the, you know, the proportional to your point, the reaction from the crowd, right?

And so that intensity, if the environment doesn't have it, then the whole thing feels a little less vital, I guess. And I don't know what you do about that because, again, in defense of the league, on the scheduling part of this, I don't know that you could just hold open all these dates and all these arenas. No, I get that. Yeah. Not knowing which two teams, which four teams are going to be in the final four, and which two teams are going to be in the final. that would be a lot of arena dates to just freeze in the hope of putting these in a home market.

But I think everybody could agree if that game had been in Milwaukee or Oklahoma, it's a much different atmosphere. And same for the two semis. A thousand percent. I mean, you talk about Summer League. When you go to Vegas for Summer League, you are hit over the head constantly with the fact that it exists. You know what I mean? It's the whole town. Tons of marketing. Just there.

And obviously there are a number of factors for that. All 30 teams are there. All their staff are there. All their fans are there. It's just naturally there's going to be more of a bustle in that sort of situation. But just from a from a vibes perspective, going there and it really feeling like just sort of another thing to do in Vegas. You know what I mean? That it was just, it was, it was another option for entertainment. It wasn't like the NBA didn't come there and take over in the way that I think

you would, uh, like it to feel like they keep they, I feel like they, I feel like they keep liking, likening it a little bit to like the Super Bowl, like a smaller version of that. Yeah. And when the Super Bowl comes to town, everybody knows it. And that was not the case with, with the, NBA Cup this year. It just, it, uh, it felt like it was whispering the whole time, to be honest with you. Like, hey, here's this, this secret fun thing. Come check it out. But there wasn't, um, it just wasn't blasting you. You know what I mean? There wasn't, uh, there wasn't constant ads. There weren't, uh, people walking around in their team's gear sort of, you know, reigniting all that stuff.

It just, yeah, it just, it didn't feel as big as I thought it was going to feel. I got there thinking that the energy was going to be kind of intense. And last year, in the final it was, but that was because the Lakers were there. And Lakers fans travel well in L.A. super close to Vegas, a lot of LeBron, a lot of reasons for that, right? So I kind of thought like, okay, like the energy, it won't hit that, but it'll be similar. And yeah, it just, it never did. And you wind up feeling, feeling for the players, because you see how hard they're going. Yes.

And it feels like it's happening almost in a vacuum. Your point about it feeling like when, you know, a certain. number of fans were allowed back in the arenas, but you know, you can't pack them yet post-COVID. It was, I mean, it was louder than that, but it was that sort of thing where the arena never felt full, really. It felt close to it sometimes, but you could always see empty seats. You know what I mean? And it just wasn't, even in the concourse when you're walking around, like, Like there's not that feeling when you're at a big game and you're walking around and you feel everybody excited and tense.

And they're worried, but they're also just like so happy to be there and they're locked in in that way. It didn't feel like that. It was sort of, yeah. Did it's a line in your story. Did this, did the MC on Saturday during the semifinals actually referred to it as the quote, infamous NBA Cup? semifinals? Unless my ears are totally out of whack, yes. Oh, boy. That's, yeah. I mean, it's, you know, like

when I think I put this in the piece too where, you know, they're doing like the game ball presentation. The, the Emirates cabin crew is coming out there and delivering the game ball. And after that, right before the tip off, I'm pretty sure, like the PA announcer said, you are cleared for takeoff. I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure. Okay. And that's one of those things where it's like,

did you have to give Emirates that too? Like, you had to do that too? They probably would have given you all the money without doing that. Like, you know, it's, uh, but yeah, there were just and I mean and I don't mean to like shit on the emcees at all like they're doing yeoman's work trying to get people pumped up for these things and

trying to get people excited and so it's but yeah you'd like to see them be given a script that isn't quite as eyebrow raising as something that has existed for one year all of a sudden being infamous here's yeah infamous

somebody just needed to like consult the dictionary. It's not even famous. You know what I mean? It can't like you got it's in famous. No. There were some nice touches though. Like first of all like the enthusiasm as I've said of Janus and the Bucks clearly wanting this like that is a great endorsement of the cup and of the players belief in

this as being really important. It's interesting too like Janus. I couldn't help but think like as a guy who's who grew up in Greece who, you know, is steeped in soccer culture where this is such a bigger thing overseas where there are multiple championships you can win. I was having this conversation with Jose Calderon the other day. He's now working for the Cavs, but obviously a longtime player in the NBA, Jose's from Spain. And he was talking about the number of different ways, you know, different titles and cups and things you can win playing in the leagues abroad, soccer or basketball and how like coaches get fired for losing

something like the NBA. That's not going to happen here. It will never be that level. But I did, it did strike me as like for Janus, who grew up more in that soccer culture, is this easier to just embrace and think, now this matters, all of these things matter. Because he's a guy who's won the Larry O'Brien trophy. He's won the big championship. And the thing that I always wondered was if your Steph or LeBron or any of these guys who have won the big one in June, will it matter to win one in December? And yeah, clearly it did.

That's good. That's great. I liked the touch of the, they brought in the kids. I can't remember if it was like Boys and Girls Club or whatever. to give them all the metals, whatever, so that they all got there. Oh, yeah. I'd see, I didn't even, I think I'd turn the TV off at that point. That was, that was nice.

By the way, did you, did you at any point buy a bottle of water while you were in the arena? And did they put a cap on it? Or did they take your cap away? No, I got to keep my cap. But actually, now that you say that, I don't think I bought a bottle of water. I think I was just skimming from the press room. And those had caps. Did they take caps off at Summerlee?

I just, I thought of this because during the course of this week, among the things that happened to the NBA, Matt Ishbia, the Phoenix Sun's owner announced they was slashing all the concessions prices, all these things, $9 popcorn, now $2, $9 bottles of water now $2. Everything's $2. Cool, awesome. As some people rightly pointed out, we shouldn't necessarily be praising billionaires for just cutting things to the prices that they should have been in the first place instead of gouging us. Fair, fine.

I'm still going to say as I did on Blue Sky, kudos to him for doing it because he didn't have to. And none of the other owners, to my knowledge, or the other teams are, but they all should. And yeah, it's kind of a duh, you know, kind of gesture. Like, yeah, of course, you could be a little kinder to your, you know, to your fans who are paying a shit ton of money just to come to the game in the first place. So I don't want to overpraise him. But it did got the tangents that spun off on Blue Sky were just, you know, among other things, the fact that they take your cap away because we cannot be, we the public,

we cannot be the one washed masses trusted with a water bottle with a cap on it because it could become a projectile. So they have to take the cap. It is the, might be the single most insulting thing at an arena, the most subtly insulting thing. It's, it is absolutely,

um, kid gloves in every way. It's, it's asking, it's asking, it's asking the server for a plastic cup for your kid because they you don't trust them with handling glass. Yeah. I mean, it just, yeah.

We're all children at a sports event. We cannot be trusted. Speaking of beverages, the Bucks did not partake of their champagne. Yes. Or their NBA sponsored beer. I guess Darvinham or Doc Rivers or the staff decided like we're just not doing that. And I thought the company, it was an interesting message. here suddenly because again my agnostic skepticism had on i have said like the problem i have

had this conceptually is like does it matter does it really matter it's it's a title one in december and then we immediately go back to like is jimby butler going to get traded and you know who's who's who's going to challenge the celtics in the east and is anybody going to be able to knock out the thunder in the west and whatever like we talk about all these other things but then the players play like it matters and then afterward yanna says dropping from the Kobe Bryant script, the job's not finished because what he really means is I want to win the championship. And then the bucks decide not to celebrate, which again, that's fine. Like psychologically, competitively, cool.

Like, you have a bigger goal, but it does subtly diminish and telegraphs the idea that, yeah, this isn't as important. It's just not. And again, that's an obvious thing, right? And it's an unfair standard for me or anybody else to apply to make this as big as Larry O'Brien trophy in June. But the muted celebration does, I think, convey something that maybe is not ideal. No. I mean, it's certainly not good for the cup. You know what I mean? You can argue how bad it is for it. but it doesn't

it doesn't make it look as important as the NBA wants it to look it it loses some sheen you know what I mean having all those completely full Mick Ultras there

it's you know that's just it did make me sad I want to know where those went who got to drink those ultimately did they did they go to like some charitable cause yeah I mean hopefully they gave it to just people that are working in the arena having to have to have to deal with all that.

The I also, I mean, the, the, uh, skeptic in me, uh, also started thinking like, wait, they're in Vegas. They probably just went to celebrate somewhere else. Yeah. Like, they probably found a way to, uh, enjoy that accomplishment. Uh, I don't know, or places are open that late? Could you, did you find an alcoholic drink at that hour? Yeah, that's a great point, great point. No, it, it's, yeah, I was, I thought it was kind of silly, you know, like when I saw it, it was sort of like, um, uh, it's like that guy when, you know, you're, there's five seconds left in the game and you just hit a shot to go up one and you're, and the other team calls the time out and you're coming back to the bench and some guy

on the bench comes out and he's saying like we just need one stop and it's like well yeah duh we let this is sort of like this is performative seriousness here like we know that we just need ones you know like the the kind of uh it felt like a little it almost felt like more of a show to not celebrate than it would have you know like it I don't think anybody watched the Lakers celebrate last year and thought like, oh, this is silly. When they put up the banner, yes, very silly. The banner is

infinitely silly and will be silly forever. Yes. But especially in LA. Like guys celebrating a tournament that was just made up, like, sure, what do I care? They're going to go do it afterwards anyways. If they want to do it in the locker room, that's fine. So I kind of thought it was silly. I think it's very funny if Darvin Ham did have a big say in this, as if them celebrating hard when they won the NBA Cup last year is the reason that they didn't have a great second half of the season. It's just sort of, you know, I find all that to be a little much. But yeah, like, I don't know, you win a wildcard game in baseball.

you celebrate like crazy. Like, who cares? Nobody has a problem with that. Yeah, which is also a little silly, frankly, baseball, but it's fine. We accept it. Yeah, I'm one of the, like, celebrate your victories. Like, have a good time.

If we're all big boys and girls here, then obviously we all know that there's something more out there and that we can't rest on our laurels and we got to get locked in for the second half. You know what I mean? Like, it just sort of, yeah. The flip side of this, of course, is that if it, If it is a thrill to win, then it's supposed to hurt to lose.

And I don't know that I saw or perceived much of a, oh, man, this is devastating by the part of, like, you're a Thunder fan, right? Like, that's a fair assessment. You've got multiple Russell Westbrook pictures behind you. Absolutely. Yes. The office there. Well, you can never have too many, you know. For sure.

But, like, I don't know. Did you and anybody else in your life who are Thunder fans feel like, oh, my God, like, we lost the cut. Like, did it? Now. So there's, that's back. to my point about it doesn't matter or not. I'll leave it there because the people are tired of hearing me make this point. But yeah, like it's, yeah, they lost and they moved on.

Part of it's like the way that they lost where just like a historically bad shooting night, you know what I mean? It just sort of feels like it's a variance sort of thing. And that was a night where they just didn't have it and they didn't have it so much that it could only be that, you know? Yeah. I like, yes, I think the, it would be great if the thunder added another knockdown shooter. Those, those sorts of, you know, questions that arise from performance like that. Sometimes I think they're silly. Sometimes I think they're fine. You know, if you have really the only knock down dead eye, they got a fly at them kind of guy the Thunder have right now is Isaiah Joe. They have other guys that can shoot well within the system and sometimes have great shooting games. But, you're not necessarily guarding them like, oh, no, that guy's open. We have to change the way that we're guarding. You know what I mean?

So I think that those are fair things to bring up. But all in all, like, they still guarded very, very well. Yes. It just sort of- As well as you can against Janus. Right, right. Yeah, I mean, they didn't guard Janus well, but everything else they kind of kept a check.

sure the um and uh i think it's also with sort of throughout this season during the times when he's been out like anytime anything kind of goes wrong you do at least i do in the back of my head think like well yeah chet's out like he's he's coming back like that would have chet's not going to be able to like deal any blows back to yonis physically but he's going to be another deterrent in there that makes things harder, that makes rebounding easier, having him and Hartensstein on the floor together, I think, could do some stuff where Chet's able to, you know, come over and help and things like that, just, you know, make Yon to see a few more arms, stuff like that. So it, at least from a Thunderfan perspective,

those are things that are always kind of in your head, you know, you're just sort of thinking like, Well, this isn't actually what it'll look like later on in the season whenever it's, you know. Well, and Chet's not going to answer all the shooting woes or not shooting woes, but he's not going to change the fact that they need more shooting. But as a big who can shoot threes, him being on the court changes things too. And on a night where they really struggled offensively, having that much more spacing and a guy who can knock down threes who happens to be seven feet something kind of matters. right?

Yeah. This is the thing. Let's talk about your thunder here. I mean, they've been the consensus favorite to win the West since the summer, rightly. They're 21 and 5 right now, as we record, best in the Western Conference, second only to the Cavaliers overall. They are weirdly, if you look at the standings, do you realize they're writing a six-game winning streak? I did see that to this morning? It's jarring, right?

Wait, didn't they just lose the other night? Oh, yeah, that's right. The NBA Cup final doesn't count. it's just a marat it's it's yes i get which i think is another aspect of why it why the loss doesn't hurt quite as much you know what i mean it's just like well none of these stats matter the the game disappears from existence you know what i mean so it just yeah later this season they'll have a bad shooting night in a low scoring game and we'll say it was the lowest scoring game of the season and people say no no what about the NBA count nope doesn't

doesn't count it's you're exactly right it's going to be very confusing just in the discourse when they have one of those nights that we're trying to say it's the worst shooting aside from the cup which doesn't count like we're going to have to put that in parentheticals every time very strange um but you have uh lived through i imagine cheered through various versions of the thunder over the last um 10 15 years um this is a different version of a thunder potential powerhouse than the Durant Westbrook or Durant Westbrook I or Durant Westbrook-Ibac-Harden version. I'm curious, just kind of actually just big picture perspective here, just almost like vibe-wise, too. Like among Thunder fans, what's like the affinity for and belief in this team compared to like those early years of the early years in Oklahoma, period of Durant Westbrook?

That's a good question. I haven't actually thought about sort of weighing one era against the other in that way. I mean, those early Durant-Westbrook teams, they were so exciting because of the just sheer force that they would play with. You know what I mean? There was like there was an avalanche kind of vibe to them whenever they got going. they guarded well for the most part those defenses were always pretty highly ranked but it was kind of what they could do on offense that was um would kind of take the ceiling off you know what I mean um and they were I mean they were they were also just wildly athletic I mean young I Baca

was bananas and you add him in there with if it's like a small ball lineup which they didn't play enough in those days but if you've got Ibaka at the five whatever they had around him, they could really get up and go. And the vibes were really good at that time. I would say, though, that there was always this kind of like, well, will it work? Like, is the fit too wonky for the team to get over the hump? There was also a lot of noise from the outside from, you know, national media and even local media right, where you're sort of like, well, should Russ be given up more shots than he's given up

to Durant? Like, you know, that sort of stuff. There was, there was a lot of, um, it, the fit did not feel seamless in any way. Um, so there was, um, it was, it would be a little tenuous sometimes. You know what I mean? There were, more doubt would creep into your fan head than you would like it to. Um, I think it's almost like, like, tell me if this is, wrong, but like it's almost like emotionally, it's like higher highs and lower lows, right? Or or bigger higher highs and bigger doubts or concerns, right? Like this team is very steady and almost sedate this thunder group. Because Shea, you know, Shea is not Russ. No. Jaylor-Libbys is not Kevin Durant. Like, there's no analogy here at all. Incredibly talent, very deep, very well-constructed.

They don't have the explosiveness of either game or personality that the Durant-Westbrook era had. right? And so, but at the same time, this, this group feels in some ways more predictable, solid. I don't know what the right word is. And I mean it in a positive way. Like, they seem more reliable in some ways because you're not worried about the thing you just mentioned, which was always the tension is Westbrook taking too many bad shots that are now detracting from Durant being clearly the better player and the more efficient score. Right. No, I think I think the foundation is way more solid with this crew. And I think that all the pieces make sense. And I think that when you combine that stuff with the level that Shea has gotten to and that Degnault is such a good coach,

and not just such a good coach, but a good coach for this particular group, and that he has been fine-tuning and implementing this, like, offense and this defense. throughout these rough tanking years that happened before, you know, the last couple, it, uh, when you look at everything, it all feels of a piece. You know what I mean? There doesn't feel like something that sticks out as, well, this isn't quite in line with everything else, or this is the big, big weak spot. You know, like, yes, they could use more shooting, but you wouldn't say that it's like a glaring issue. You know what I mean? Like, there's a, yeah, there's just, there's just more, I think there are more assets this time around.

And more depth, like, in ways that I, like, can't even be, like, computed compared to what it used to be. You know, they would have Derek Fisher closing, like, important playoff games. you know, Randy Foy, you know, I remember thinking that Dayquan Cook was the missing piece for those teams. You know, you're just, you're begging them to find a fifth guy. Reggie Jackson, Eric Maynard. Yes. Oh, God. I mean, remember the.

Tomo Cephalosha. Remember the month where everybody was like trade Westbrook, Eric Maynors ready? You know what I mean? It's just like some of that stuff. Everything was just so chariote. charged up at that point and they just could never quite find that fifth dude. Here, there's just, Dagnall is not afraid to play a lot of guys. All those guys know that even if they've gotten DnPs for four straight games,

there's absolutely a good chance that they'll all of a sudden play 15 that night, you know? It, uh, they've just, um, they've developed a team that feels very mature for how young they are very just professional. You know what I mean? Like it's just like this is a, this is a group where every guy does their job and make sure that they're ready. And there's not a lot of complaint.

I mean, Caruso and Hartenstein have fit perfectly. Yes. Because you can play them as much or as little as you feel like and no one's going to get too pissy about it. And it, I think that because the defense in particular is so strong, and because Shea is such an unbelievable closer and scorer, they feel more ready for extended playoff runs than some of those Thunder teams did.

For as good as Durant was and for as good as Westbrook was, Scott Brooks was probably never going to draw up something or have some game plan where, and there were exceptions, but on the whole, there was something missing from the bench, I think, on those teams. It doesn't feel like that here. This is a team that puts their guys in the best positions to be successful in the way that all good teams do. And yeah, like you say, everything just feels a lot more stable.

All the guys like each other, like the bench vibes are great. There's not a lot of finger pointing. Yeah, I just, the water's, feel a lot calmer with this one. Not for nothing, maybe too calm in that. Right? Like, I mean, we're, there's been a lot of all the hand-wringing recently right about ratings and why is the NBA not feel as exciting right now and all that.

The thunder are super good and like the defending champion Celtics, a little dry, right? Sure. And that doesn't mean that they don't sometimes play exciting basketball, although, you know, Shea does not have the, the explosiveness right? of West, like there's not, there's a thrill watching Westbrook. Love him or hate him, be frustrated by him. There's a thrill watching Russell Westbrook in his prime. There's a thrill watching Kevin Durant.

I don't know that you get that same like charge as whether you're a Thunder fan or just a general NBA fan from this team. And again, to the point of them not being playing on Christmas or small market woes and all this other stuff of, you know, lack of promotion interest. Like, Shea is still almost a complete unknown to the public. Yeah. a lot of that's by design, by him. And I think Shay, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think she is naturally the way that he is, but I think that, that he also enjoys leaving a little off the table. Yeah.

For the, for the, for public consumption. I think he enjoys the mystery. Well, Russ wasn't exactly the most, uh, giving of himself to the media of the public either, but he's so, but he, but even the snarliness was part of the appeal. He made, he made himself known in other ways. In other ways, right. He's not going to sit down and have a half hour thoughtful conversation with the local beat writers. Right. But he's going to convey a lot in a very short amount of time on to court it off.

And this group is very restrained. And I think, I think that that, I think that's fair. I think the one thing I would push back on is I think that Russ and Durant were loud about, loud when they played. They're playing styles. I mean, Durant, a little bit quieter sometimes, but definitely had the ability to like, you know, push it up a few octaves. Obviously, Russ is one of the just loudest players ever in terms of play style, in terms of personality on the court, whatever, confrontations, all that sort of stuff. Like, it was just, it was, you were standing right by the amp the whole time. You know what I mean with that team.

And this, but I would say that Shea, She does just as much wild. I can't believe he did that shit type of stuff as the other two. It's just, he's not as over the top about it, if that makes sense. There's, like, some of the stuff that Shea does, like, ball handling-wise is absolutely, like other than Kyrie you're not probably not going to see anything better in the league right now just in terms of like handle, wiggle, shiftyness with the ball, the way he can slide through space and time and just kind of flow.

He is, I find him very, very, very, very exciting and very rewarding to watch. and a guy that invites you to go look at his highlights and kind of look a little bit closer. Like, wait, what did he do that? Like how that looked weird for some reason, but it went in and it also looked kind of smooth. Like, but I didn't, it was so subtle. I didn't catch it on the first go round.

You know what I mean? I think that there's something to, like he has gotten, like, I mean, he's a leopard out there. Like there's just so much grace and fluidity. and strength now that to me he's really, really exciting to watch just because he's one of the few guys now

where I feel like I might see a finish that I haven't seen before or at least not seen a lot of both going to the rim and like the fadeaways, the turnarounds, these things that he's getting better and better at. Like it, like, he's,

He's reclining on some of these fadeaways and still making them over like good contests. And so it's, I think he's, I think he's a guy that deserves just as much shine as Russ and, at least as much as Russ got. Durant is a freak of nature score, the likes of which we will probably never see again, or at least not for a long time. But Shea is also a singular scorer, I think. You know what I mean? Like it, there are

a much different way, yeah. Yeah, there are fathers to his game, right? Like you can see Kobe in there. You can see different like little Steve Nash kind of things or whatever. but there's not he's not doing a karaoke version of anybody. You know what I mean? Like he's very much himself and in that way I think

he is truly special just because he leaves open the possibility for so many things that you never even knew you wanted to see. But that, you know, I'm also a massive homer and can't be trusted. So it, but yeah, that's that's, that's how I feel about that.

Chet, Chet is quiet. I'll be interested to see how Chet evolves, like, not just on the court, but, you know, in his person. Like, it just, how expressive he gets, because he can be kind of loud sometimes on some of these finishes and everything. So I, it, and defensively, he's just so stellar at the rim. Like there's going to be opportunities for kind of explosive plays from him on that end, too. So I'm interested to see that, where that goes in the next few years. But yeah, I think I, it's a, it's a, it's a very different type of Thunder team than existed before. ESPN's Tim Bonteps did his first MVP straw poll, which came out, I think, this morning.

Yokic is the pretty safe leader right now, 57 first place votes and H.H. 827 points. That makes sense. She was second again. 24 first place votes, 678 points. So clear distance behind him with a lot of season yet to go, and Janus was third. I bring this up because I was one of the 24 people who put She at the top of my back. ballot. No guarantee that that's where I'll end up, folks, when all of a sudden done it a few months, but I had Shea first. And a lot of that is that because, like, for me, and this, this framework has

shifted for a lot of people over time as the voting pool has changed. But I am still of the belief that the wins have to matter a lot. It is not simply a statistical race. It's not simply, with this guy, won every stat category and every advanced stat category, ergo, they're the winner. If that were the case, we wouldn't need to vote. You could just plug it in. to, you know, a spreadsheet. The fact that the Thunder are also the best team in the West by a good margin, and he's putting up the numbers he is, like, that the results matter to me at Denver's, you know, kind of depressed win total right now is factoring in for me. But again, a lot of season left to go. I just want to quickly footnote here, because we were

talking about the history of the Thunder and like this version of them that has the best chance to go and win at all or at least get back to the finals since the peak, West Durant years. I think this is one of the best quickest, maybe the best quickest rebuild I've seen in the 28 seasons that I've covered the NBA. Quick review. 2016, they win 55 games, lose to the Warriors, Durant leaves, as we know. The next three seasons with Russ as their centerpiece, they win 47, 48, 49.

They never win a playoff series. 2019 they trade Paul George and Westbrook just pull the plug entirely but they end up with Chris Paul who gets them to 44 wins right in the COVID season so that's a that's a 50 that's actually a 50 win equivalent which is a damn good season 50 is is really good in this league 20 20 20 they trade Paul George to Phoenix uh Paul George Chris Paul to Phoenix I hope I said Chris Paul the first time with Chris Paul they won the 44 games I'm like, I've got too many notes in front of me. You did say, you did say Chris Paul the first time.

You're good. Okay, good. Great. 2020, they trade Chris Paul to Phoenix to really start the rebuild, right? Yeah. So they've not really had a down year yet. No. They've been petering out.

Durant's gone. It's just Westbrook. That's Westbrook and Paul George. Now they get rid of both of them. They win 22 games in a 72 game season in 2020, 2021. 22 wins, the 24 wins. Yeah. Then 40 wins.

It's like just shy of getting to 500 in 2022, 23. They had only three losing seasons after that. And only two that were truly awful, right? Because 40 and 42 is, you know, at least competitive. And they go from 40 wins to 57 last season. Now here they are on pace for 66. Yeah. Despite not having Chet and Hartenstein play together yet,

only 11 games from Hartnstein, only 10 from Holmgren. Like, this is just a absolutely fucking masterful. rebuild. And I know Presti gets praised plenty. He doesn't need more. But they've done all this and they still have like 800 draft picks to deal and plenty of flexibility, optionality, however you want to refer to it. You know, they, Caruso and Hartnstein were incredible offseason pickups.

And yet we're still sitting here going, they could use more shooting. Well, guess what? They're in position to be able to go do that because this has been one of the most masterful rebuilds with the ability to keep adding. that I think we've ever seen. I'm with you. I think the, a crazy underrated aspect of this is that they did it with only one top five pick.

They didn't, they, I mean, they, they never got the number one overall pick during any of this time. They have hit big on Jalen Williams, who went 12th, right?

Like they've gotten, Kason, who went, um, uh, 10th, I'm pretty sure. They've just, they pick up Isaiah Joe off the Sixers

scrap heap after they drop him. They've just been very opportunistic with dudes like that. And yeah, the scouting's just been very, very on point with a couple of these. I mean, like, you know, there are misses, right?

RIP to Poku. But that was like, he was like the 17th pick, right? Like, you're, you're, You're not there. You're allowed to take a little bit of a swing where you don't know how it's going to turn out. And everyone has their misses. Exactly. Yeah. And so it, I think the turnaround is nuts.

During some of that time, I know there would be some fans who would be like, God, they've been tanking forever. And it's like, well, no, COVID happened. And so that, that season is weird and is longer in your memory than, a season actually is. Also, before that season, there was all that talk of like, well, maybe they'll just ship Chris Paul out immediately and start the tank then. And so everyone was, and they had Gallo at that point, same thing. They were like, maybe we'll ship him out. There was a lot of discussion about the possibility of the thunderbottoming out at that point. And so it was kind of already in

the water. And then when it did happen, I think people kind of acted like it had all, it had been happening before that, which wasn't, like you say, like that, that Chris Paul team with, with, uh, him, Truder and Shea as kind of a three-headed monster there. Like that, that, they were very, very effective. Um, Stephen Adams was still doing some stuff. Like that was a, you know, Gallo couldn't move at all, but he could still shoot. And so it was, that was a good, a good team considering what they had. had just sort of come from. This team now, I mean, their point differential is 11.9, and we're still way early

in the season, that's third all time. The only two teams that have a better point differential than that are the 96 bulls and the 97 bulls. This 11.9 is above the 11.6.6 that those 2017 Warriors the first year of Duran. Like it's, they're in rarefied air right now. Anything can happen. You know, they have, they have not, the injury bug has not left them alone this year in the way that it did last year. So obviously all those caveats need caveats need caveats.

You can take the kid out of Oklahoma. But the, you know what I mean? Like you can, there are plenty of ways you can hedge your bets here. but right now the combination of this defense and just how hard driving the offense is, how hard they are to guard and how many different ways they can come at you, it's historic stuff right now. It doesn't mean it's going to stay that way. But if they had had a little bit more success last year,

if they had got to the Western Conference finals, you know what I mean, or even the finals or something like that, I think that people would be doing a better job of putting in proper context just how nuts they are right now. I mean, they're first, as far as this season goes, the next closest to them point differential wise is the calves that like, I think it's like 10.6 or something. And so it's, they are way above the crowd on that. And that doesn't mean everything obviously. but it is a this is a very very scary team that has a very very high floor because of how hard they play defense and it's just it's hard to catch them on a night where you're not going to see them sleepy

in the way that you would see some of those Paul George Carmelow Rust teams where they would show up and you just be like, you all know the game started like five minutes ago, right? I just forgot. I had forgotten until you just said it, that Carmelow was there. Like I, I know this. I know Carmelow was there. Like, I remember this. I do have a, I, it just, it had slipped my mind that there was a, that there was a, that there was a Carmello era in Oklahoma. He is, he, his, his, uh, it's, it's always, you always, I mean, I will forget it too sometimes because it was, I mean, it was just for a year. And there were so many other, uh, issues.

who's going on with that. You know, you don't. Yeah. And I mean, there's, you know, Andre Robertson got hurt that year in a game in, uh, in Detroit. I think he broke,

he either broke his leg or something with his knee or something like that. I think it was on like December 17th. And up till that point, like the thunder were rolling. And then after that, just, it shouldn't have been the case, but Roberson, was holding up the defense in ways that nobody understood at that point. And so, you know, the ground falls out.

And there's also a problem if Andre Robertson goes out and everything goes to shit, right? Like you have deeper issues if that's the case. I love them to death, but that just feels like a fact. But yeah, this is, it's kind of bonkers what they're doing right now. and if it continues like post All Star, we've got, we've got some, we've got something pretty historic on our hands. I hope Thunder fans realize, and I'm sure they do and appreciate just how good they've had it, right? Since the moment they, almost since the moment they arrived, right?

Like there was a couple bad seasons there as they're kind of ramping up with the young guys with a young Durant in Westbrook. But like most rebuilds take much longer. most tank jobs take much longer a couple of 20-ish win seasons followed by an immediate leap to 40 and then 50. Like it just doesn't happen very often unless you just stole LeBron James or somebody of that of that caliber from somewhere. Like it doesn't it doesn't normally go this way. You don't normally just have like a couple of bad seasons. And I do. I remember during that time there was a lot of hand ringing about like, oh my God, how long is this going to take?

It took nothing at all. Like you blinked and they were. we're back. And obviously, you know, the Paul George Shea deal has a lot to do with that. For sure. I mean, getting to start your rebuild with somebody like that, who has just improved every single year. Like, he just keeps showing you can't really put a ceiling on what he's going to be because just every year he gets better. But yeah, I mean, I think that I think that pick and right coach-wise with Dagnall is huge. That was, you know, like,

Degnall had been in the Thunder system since he arrived in the league from Florida whenever Presti picked him, sort of plucked him out of there. And, you know, he had been the Thunder G league coach for a little while. It wasn't some splashy, you know, let's go get somebody who knows how to win kind of thing. You know what I mean? Like they, they, to their credit, they knew what they had and, and it's, it's paid off. Before we go, we're running a little long here, but this is all great. And I don't, I don't want to stop.

I'm just having too much fun. Okay. Tyler. We'll get to the Mac McClough interview in a minute. But before we wrap, I actually did want to just quickly, because it was unveiled this week, All-Star voting just began and the All-Star game itself has been remixed once more. I waited on this very briefly, I think, when it was just a quote-unquote report as opposed to the actuality of it a couple weeks ago. Still 24 All-Stars, now divided into three teams of eight.

Right. There'll be a fourth team that will be the winner of the Rising Stars game on Friday night. That's the rookie sophomore game. So we will have a tournament on Sunday. Instead of an All-Star game East versus West or Team LeBron versus Team whoever, we will have four teams. of three of eight players each. I don't, I guess it's, I guess it's eight teams for the rookie sophomores as well.

The two teams will play each other. The other two teams will play each other, the two teams that win will be in the final. And potentially we'll have an eight all-stars versus eight rookie sophomores with a veteran pride on the line, I suppose. Sure. And they're playing to 40 points. It's not a clock.

So this thing could be over very quickly, unless they actually decide to play some defense, which is really the question and which is really how we got here in the first place. So I am on record as saying, and I believe this truly, I like this. If you're going to try to fix the thing,

if we're going to acknowledge that it's broken, this is as good a fix as I could see, partially because it will be shorter. If it's going to be just a crappy exhibition, at least get it over with quickly, no clock. Right. First team to 40 points,

which could happen very fast in an All-Star setting. And I do like the idea that the vets against the young guys might bring out a little bit more of a pride factor. Sure. I don't know. People's reactions this week have been all over the map. I am too jaded to have a proper assessment of these things usually. I have been to 20 All-Star games and they've been getting progressively worse. But I am actually an optimist on this one.

I am bullish on this proposal. I think I might be in the minority based on what I've seen on social media. are you on this. Cautious optimist. There is a strong part of me, Howard, that's like very thinking about this in the way that Durant is thinking about this, which is, can we just go back to East West? Like, what is, why do I got to learn all these? No, I know.

I know. It still sucked. It did. And it did. But sometimes I do think, like, can we quit with the tinkering? In this case, the reason that I am cautiously optimistic. is a play into 40. I think that's really smart because

teams will know where they stand the whole time. They can't wait until the fourth to like, you know, maybe start trying. There's incentive for them to be locked in and locked in early. I think the young kids playing the old guys thing is smart because I do think there will be, this is a way for the young kids to show out a little bit and kind of explore the space with these older dudes. And I think the older dudes are not going to want to get shown up by them.

I think that will definitely bump up the competition. So because of those two things, I am, I'll definitely be watching. You know what I mean? Like there are some years where you turn it on and the first quarter goes the way it goes and you're just kind of like, all right, like, what's on, what's on HBO right now? This is enough. But it, uh, the, that play in a 40th thing, I think is smart. Having a target score like that, I think will, um,

you're not going to let a guy just, I mean, maybe you do, maybe they will. I don't know, but it, it, they, it feels like they would be less likely to let some guy dribble into a three just easily. three times in a row. They, you know, there's going to be less kind of, uh, runways for dunks, right? Trying to like, because some, every now and again, they're just given up entirely on, I mean, pretty much the whole game, right? They're just, transition defense is not a thing.

Guys are just going to the rim and players are giving them the opportunity to do the coolest thing they can possibly do. There is a part of me that likes that, but more of me likes, likes, that we might actually see some collisions at the rim now. You know what I mean? Like I like that. I like that. And I like there being not just two teams,

you know what I mean? Like that there's going to be able to be, that allows for more alphas, you know, kind of, I think. And yeah, I just think you'll get a better sense for how guys play. together in those sorts of situations. You know what I mean? Like there's so much just individual play in these All-Star games. It's, you know, if they're assists, it's one pat.

It's, you know, they're not as, it doesn't feel like that you're experiencing an entity moving as one. You know what I mean? I mean, no one's asking for these guys to play like Dean Smith's offense or like Michael Jackson's triangle. But I mean, yeah, a little bit of kind of, kind of course. nation that implies that is a five-man team as opposed to just like let's just take turns like making fancy moves and and throwing up you know 40 footers or lobs to to to to wemby or durant or whoever like have it at least it's supposed it's a it's a it's a basketball exhibition but it should still look like

basketball and if you don't have the offensive players actually trying to run a little bit of stuff with each other just basic stuff if you don't have your defenders actually trying to defend yeah it's no longer a basketball game. It is just some weird exhibition where we just like throw lobs and shoot deep threes. And like, I know there are some fans who are fine with that, but I just don't think it's interesting enough for a full

48 minute game that sometimes lasts three hours as an event. Even the fans that are fine with that with those lobs and threes and everything, like it's not as if they're not going to be more fine with highly competitive basketball. You know what I mean? The people that like that stuff and enjoy it, they will also be enjoying.

It will still be there. Yes. Just a little less of it and maybe contested. The reason we love the game, the real game, is because when you see a spectacular dunk or a spectacular play of any kind, why is it spectacular? Because it's like, how did he get that shot off with the defender in his face? Or how did he split that double team?

Or, you know, how did he, you know, that backdoor cut? None of that means anything if you weren't trying to stop it. And I always have to say this. I can't believe I have to always give this disclaimer. No one is asking for game seven level intensity or even playoff level intensity, even game one of the first round intensity. I'm not even asking for NBA Cup level intensity. We're just asking for them to try enough to make it look like a game where you're trying

to stop the other team. And when people say, but oh, injuries, folks, there have been all-star games for literally decades where nobody got hurt. And they played and they played harder than this. This is my 28th season. I have seen this thing erode over time. The players themselves. So Durant and Booker and Anthony Davis all bemoaned this new format or pooped on it and said like,

what about the east west of my youth? Guys, you killed that. You're the ones who are part of the era that killed it with your indifference. You don't get to now complain about and nitpick about the way the NBA is trying to manipulate it to make it more interesting again when you're the ones who put them in this position. and I should also note in this rant, it was Adam Silver and Chris Paul when Chris was still president of the Players Association

who had a phone call after one of these shitty games like seven, eight years ago, and talked about it and said, you know what, we got to do something. We got to find another way. And after that, they tried the Elimending. And they did the player draft and various other tweaks. And there were some short-term little bumps, some, some, you know, some nice effect initially and then it fell off a clip again. Yeah, that first year with the Elam ending and when it was, you know, LeBron, what was it,

LeBron's team versus Janus's team that first year. Like that was, I think, I think like that fourth quarter, whenever they were playing, because they were playing for the two different charities too. Like it was like if LeBron's team won. And I like that part too. And they had the kids there from the respective charities like that. I thought that game was very intense. That was like one of Embed's finest moments that game, if I recall. Like, guys went hard. And then like you say, it just, it did fall off a cliff. Again, we're just asking them to try a little harder.

Play as if this is a competition. Not when that means a ton, not that there's major stakes on the line. And I get it. It's a long weekend. The NBA puts these guys through the ringer. They've got all these appearances and all these events. Plus, they're, you know, partying their butts off too. and there's like a lot going on by time you get to sunday night you just want to like wrap it up and go home

i get it but this is part of the NBA schedule and part of making good with your fans and your corporate partners and everybody else you got to put on a better show and i i'm glad we share this optimism that this might actually be the thing that makes that sunday event interesting again i don't care if it looks if it doesn't look like all-star games of the past that thing is already dead. The players killed it. If there's a way to at least make the finale of All Star Weekend interesting, this little tournament, cool. So, you know, kudos to the NBA and the players association for coming together and finding something that's, it's different. And I don't know, we'll see how people greet it when it happens in February in San Francisco. But I think,

I think this is a good attempt. So I'm with you. We should, we should wrap it up there. Folks, make sure to stay tuned for my interview with Mac McLung, which is coming up next. And again, The Real Ones is off on Tuesday, Christmas Eve, but we are back on Friday, December 27th. Tyler Parker. Parker Tiles,

that whisperer. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining the Real Ones. This has been a blast. Oh, dude, had a great, great time. I appreciate you having me. Thank you. Happy holidays to you and the family.

Happy holidays to our producer, Isaiah, thank you all for hanging in. Happy holidays. Merry Christmas to everybody else and stay tuned for my interview with Mack McClung. Now very pleased to be joined by the two-time NBA slam dunk champion and recent G-League MVP. Mac Mac Mac, how are you, ma'clock? Mack, how are you, man? I'm great, man. How are you doing great? I'm doing great. You are among the stars of a new docu-series about the G-League, the break presented by the general. Very cool. We get to see a little glimpse of life in the G. Can I say that? That sounds like I'm trying to be too cool. It sounds like I'm trying to be one of the life. You sound great. It's not great. No, it's not good. Do guys in the

G league call it the G? I think that's the most common term. I think you hit it. I think you get it. I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm on safe ground. You're on a two-way deal this season, so that's new for you. How is it different now? This is year four for you in the G-League. year four trying to navigate just this whole, this whole scenario of the G League trying to make it to the NBA. You've bounced a little bit back and forth. What's different about where you are now on a two-way deal and back with the same team? You're with the Orlando Magic slash Osceola Magic. How is that different for you than the first couple of years of doing this? Yeah, I mean, I've been on a couple different two-way. So I've kind of used to this a little bit. but I think also this is the first year I've started somewhere on a contract.

And, you know, just the balancing, speaking of the break and the general, like being able to follow this schedule, you know, you balance being ready for the NBA when you get your opportunity, but also trying to be successful in the G League while you're there. So that's why, like, I'm super excited about these series and these episodes coming out because people can see, you know, how, you know, sometimes difficult and exciting this lifestyle is, man. And so, yeah, being my first time starting out on an NBA contract, it's, you know, an honor and really cool. Does it give you a little bit different perspective going into this season where, okay, I'm starting on the two-way as opposed to like picking it up midway through? So there's actually, it seems like the fact that you have that, that the magic extended that also that they brought you back, that's kind of like a vote of confidence, right? Like, you know, we've seen something and you obviously, you had a phenomenal year last season that maybe they've seen something where now you come into this season. with maybe a little bit different expectation? And do they convey that at all?

Do they say, look, we're going to need you at, you know, certain junctures during the NBA season with the Orlando Magic as opposed to the G League team. Is there a different framework? And how does that change the way you're, you know, kind of approaching the season? Yeah, I think that when you're not on a two-way, you want a two-way. And then when you're on the two-way, you want to protect the two-way. So it's a double-edged sword there. but I think also Orlando is so good with communicating with everybody.

They are, I trust this organization when they tell they want to see certain things out of me. So I'm really just trying to do what they need from me. And, you know, when the time's right, if there is time, I'll be ready, you know. And yeah, I can only say great things about this organization and how they've really treated me and been open with me. I mentioned the, you winning MVP last season. It was really a breakout year and just started. statistically you were off the charts. What do you think clicked or clicked differently?

Like, I know it's a little hard, like with the G league because like day to day, month to month, the roster changes all the time, right? It's like there's a lot more volatility in the G league in general. But was there something in particular that kind of, you know, you allowed you to make kind of that, that leap last season? What did that mean to you? Yeah, I mean, like you said, it's tough. Rosters changed everything.

I think I was putting a really good situation by my coach and teammates. And I felt like I've had strong years in the G. And it kind of just worked out time and place. But I think really what helped me is each year I don't focus on certain goals. But the only one thing is like how do I get better? My goals are taking my weaknesses each year and becoming more each year. How can I be better than I was last year? And that's really my only mindset.

And I feel like that kind of helps me from thinking of distractions or wanting certain things that maybe aren't right for me. So shout out to the development team with the G League and the front office. They all helped me grow and gave me some pointers they wanted me to work on. And my game was flowing near the end of the season. And I was really honored to get that award. That word had been a lot to me and made me feel really good. Do you have a sense of like, you know, all right, I've accomplished this much, right? And the scoring really came around last year. Is there, when the coaches from the Orlando Magic are talking to you,

is there a sense of like, you know what, we're going to need you to do X, Y, Z, or we need to see a little bit more on the playmaking side, or maybe defensively, are there, you know, is there a kind of an outline there of, like, kind of boxes you need to check, perhaps, to get on the NBA roster permanently or just on a more regular basis. I know a lot of that's just opportunity, right?

You know, sometimes, like, no one's rooting for anybody to get hurt. but sometimes it's just a matter of how a season unfolds. But do you have a sense of what it might take to get that foothold and keep it? A lot of it's timing, you know, and you don't wish anything bad upon anybody. And I think my goal for this year is really just to be, you know, I've shown a lot in the G league of scoring and, you know, won a championship and those things.

And I think this year is about managing the game, being a point guard, really showing that I can dominate off not scoring. and passing and being a leader, that's important for me this year. And, you know, I think a lot of it is God's timing and it be in the right situation for you. But I don't look at it like that. You know what I mean? I'm going to apply pressure as much as possible. That's important for me to apply pressure each year.

You're at the winner showcase, which is going on this week and through the weekend. Do players in the G-League see that as an important time to shine? Like, this is a tent-pull event for the league in that, all the GMs, all the scouts, like everybody's gathered in Orlando to see all of you guys play. And, you know, we've just entered the unofficial trade season in the NBA. Like, there's going to be a lot more movement transactions coming up over the next couple of months. Are you guys conscious of that as players? Like, these guys are all here to see us.

And like, this is, you know, whether it's to be called it by the magic or whether it's another team that might be interested via trade or other avenues. Do you see this as like, this is the stage? Like this is the time to make the impression. Most definitely. I think, you know, teams do the research and they know players. And I think, and if, you know, you have a horrible game, I don't think it represents you for the rest of the year or anything. But I think I've seen players change their lives off of this showcase.

You know, I've seen players get a call up and be on that team for two years, you know. And like, obviously, this, so many call-ups come from this showcase right here. I know everyone feels. that moment. But I think it's also important to be yourself. You know, play the right way. You play the room. But like, be yourself. Don't put too much pressure on it. You know, we work too hard for too long to, you know, put too much pressure on this weekend, you know, just be yourself and play the right way. Yeah. When the crowds get bigger, do you feel that we talked about this when you and I sat down, chatted a year and a half ago? But like in moments like this,

is there more pressure to dunk? Like, I know, like, the slam dunk competition is its own thing. The games and the competition and basketball is a different thing in some sense. But when you walk onto the court every day as the two-time slam dunk champion, how do you balance the putting on a show or trying to put on a show and do something splashy versus just trying to make winning plays? I mean, I kind of like it because I can, you know, people come, you know, I hear people in the crowd, dunk, dunk. But like, it's like a chance to have like me to show you like, yo, I can hoop.

I can't wait to show you guys, like, I'm a lot more than a dunker. And, you know, I can dominate the game in different ways. And that's something always excites me almost like as like a challenge. So I don't ever feel pressure to dunk. I feel like it's like an opportunity to show people like other exciting points in my game and, you know, how I play basketball. When we talked in 2023, this was like just, I think a few weeks or maybe a month or two after you'd won the first slam dunk title. And one of the things I was curious about was like, how does this change your life, right? You went from being, you know, certainly not anonymous.

You were a viral sensation and an Instagram star before winning the slam dunk competition, but you put yourself on a lot more people's radars that weekend. And a lot came with that. There was a lot more people just recognizing you, asking for autographs, you know, crowding you at airports and all restaurants, whatever, all these things. Also great sponsorship opportunities. There was just a lot that came with it. And it seemed like at the time you were really trying to figure,

route just as an individual, like, how do I, how do I manage all of this, this instant fame? And then things, I imagine, calm down a little bit and then you go and you win it again. Was it different the second time? Are you, and are you, did you, was it a whole new deluge of attention, opportunities and all that comes with it? Like, is, are you, are you handling it differently now? Yeah, I think the first time when we met and, you know, you asking that question, I, I was so loss because I think that weekend I remember I had like 10 interviews and 10 hours, you know, straight. And it was all the biggest ones. And I was like, man, this is incredible, blah, blah, but like there was so much going on. Like you said, like when I go to the airport, you know,

right after obviously the tension is higher than ever. And I was so overwhelmed. I wouldn't say lost. Let me read. I was so overwhelmed and trying to adjust to all of it. Come into it last year, I had a little bit more comfortability knowing what was going to happen. I do feel like, you know, it was, you know, made people that didn't watch the year before, watched that way. I felt like it built it up more. And I felt, you know, more than I have when I first started the G League people noticing me and, you know, coming up to me. And, you know, I think those contests have definitely changed my life in that aspect.

But it has also brought really cool partnerships, cool people, and great relationships. into my life as well. So there's definitely positive more than negative. Yeah. What's the best thing to come out of it? Really just, I think just my boys being able to be a part of it, man. I can't explain how much, like, I have such cool best friends, you know, and they always come and us just being able to live that life together.

I'll never forget those memories, us just being there and feeling like, you know, the world was watching for, you know, that first time. That's how it felt, you know. and it was so cool to be from such a small town and then be able to experience that with my best friends. Like, I'll never take that for granted. You dunked over a couple of them, if I recall, correct? Yeah, I had to have them a part of it, for sure.

I love that. This is going to sound a little bit like a stretch, but bear with me because I think this works. So this weekend, your team's going to be playing the South Bay Lakers and Bronny James Jr. you and Brunney probably have almost nothing in common, except both of you kind of became viral sensations or Instagram stars, social media sensations before you were actually in the league, NBA or G League.

And it's different. Obviously, Brony grew up as the son of LeBron James. So I don't want to stretch the analogy too far. But can you relate a little bit, you think, to, I don't know, the spotlight and the pressure and just the kind of the unique lens that we're viewing him through because we knew who Brunney was long before this. And now he, like you, is just trying to carve out a career, right? He's just trying to establish who he is. He's got to get out of his dad's shadow. You, I don't know say you have to get out of the shadow of the slam dunk titles, but there

is a little bit of that tension, right, of wanting to be seen as a player and not just a showman. Do you think there's a little bit of a, you know, could you relate a little bit maybe to what he's going through right now? Yeah, I don't think I can relate to. the level of attention. I don't think I'm, I have to deal with as near as much attention as he does. And I can't relate to that. I think, um, you know, it's, it must be incredibly hard for something to go well one day and everyone celebrates you. And I'll stop myself, I heard a quote once, you know, people will say, um, you're the best thing that ever happened. And then they'll say you're the worst thing that ever happened, and you're neither of those things. And I think,

you know, I think Ronnie's on God's plans for him, and I'm wishing him the absolute best. I think he's doing a great job. I think none of us in the G league have had to deal with the pressure he has right now. But, you know, I believe in him. And I think the best is he had to come for him. Have you seen much of him just in terms of play? And I assume you guys going to be checking each other this weekend that you have a sense of what that matchup will be like. Yeah, I mean, how could you not? I think he's all over. the internet and I've seen him play. I think he's a good player, man. I think we all go through growing pains, good and bad. And I think he's doing a great job. I would be remiss if I didn't

at least ask whether you have any thoughts about defending your back-to-back dunk titles. That process, I think, will be starting pretty soon if it hasn't already with the league reaching out to folks and seeing who wants to get in there. Are you planning to defend the title? I always joke and say you're the first person to ask me that. No, but I think it's funny. Sorry to ask the most obvious question possible, but I felt like I had to check the box. No, it's funny.

No, I understand. I think the most funny of all this is like every time it's over with, you want to be like, man, like, I won the dunk contest. You know, that's it. You know, then the first question, like, you're going to do it again next year? And every time that's the first question. And then those questions just keep remling in. but I think I'm really thinking and praying on it.

I think that if I do it, I really want to be prepared and I want to put a lot of effort into it. So I'm just seeing if it's right for me right now and I'm really thinking on it. I mean, every year we think that, oh, not every year. A lot of years we think maybe the dunk contest is just over because it feels like it's gotten stale. There's nothing new. And then you come along and you lift a place up in Utah and then you did it again in

Indianapolis. And I think it restores belief in the competition itself. but as you just alluded to, it takes a ton of preparation and to try to do something that is either new or just spectacular in a way that we had seen before. Like the bars really high and it's tough because people like me, the media, the fans, we are expecting or hoping for every slam dunk contest

to blow us away. And so, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of thought that has to go into that and just the creative process too of thinking, well, if you're going to do it a third time, you know, what can you do now that you haven't already tried, right? Yeah, that's very tough. I'll start off by saying, yeah, it's extremely tough to think of more things, but it being the NBA dunk contest, it deserves that pressure. It's such an amazing contest that, yeah, it deserves that pressure. It should be. It's such a special stage that I like that

pressure. You know what I mean? I'm going to, if I do it, I'm going to work my tail off. You know, each year I've worked so hard to try to make great dunks and think of new things, but yes, it is extremely challenging on your mind and body and stressful because you want the fans to love what you do and you want you want them to see the hard work you put in. So yeah, I'm just going to pray on the thing if it's right for me. And I probably won't do it if I feel like I haven't, you know, put enough time in or and have something that the people will like. All right. Well, selfishly, and on behalf of a lot of fans out there, I hope you do it again because we've really enjoyed you so far. I will leave on this note, one of the things you mentioned in the docu-series, the break,

you're reading a book. There's a quote in there about happiness that is something to the effect of that you're no longer trying to find happiness, that you're just going to appreciate where you are and the happiness will find you. So on that note, what is happiness for you now at this moment? For me now, yeah, I think gratitude is always the key to happiness and for me. And I think just enjoy becoming. Each year I'm trying to become more. And it's so important for me this year, my monitor just to be to enjoy becoming i don't know what's going to happen in my life but i'm trying to become more as a person as a player every day and i enjoy the process of that and that brings that makes me happy absolutely uh folks catch him on the break presented by the general and uh probably

this weekend i think those games are either streamed or or shown on tv get to see uh you take on brunny james and uh good luck in the rest of the winter showcase and with the magic appreciate it thanks mac i appreciate you howard good seeing you man Thank you.