The Ringer NBA Show - NBA Draft Fits and Conference Finals Thoughts | The Corner 3

Episode Date: May 15, 2019

Now that we know the order of the NBA draft, we go over which teams might be the best fit for the non-Zion top talent: R.J. Barrett, Ja Morant, Darius Garland, Cam Reddish, and more (1:05). Then, we recap Game 1 of the Western Conference finals, in which Steph Curry was dominant and the Warriors of old routed the Trail Blazers (43:34). Finally, we wonder whether Toronto has run into LeBron 2.0 in Giannis Antetokounmpo (47:45). Hosts: Danny Chau, Jonathan Tjarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to the Ringer podcast network. Before you get to the show, make sure you check out the ringer.com for our extensive NBA playoff coverage leading up to the NBA finals. Also look out for a 2019 NBA draft guide, which now features 50 of Kevin O'Connor's scouting reports. The draft guide has a first round mock draft, big board rankings from our draft experts like Jonathan Charks and Danny Chow, and much more to come leading up to the draft itself on June 20th. Once again, check out the Ringer's 2019 NBA draft guide. and all of our NBA coverage over on the ringer.com. Welcome to the ringer NBA show. This is a long two edition of the Corner 3.

My name is Danny Chow. I'm an associate editor for the site. Joining me from Dallas is Ringer staff writer Jonathan Charks. How's it going, man? Good, man. I'm excited to talk draft. I think KOC is currently flying back from Chicago, right? Is that right?

He couldn't make it for the pod. He's flying back out of Chicago from the NBA draft lottery last night after being sequestered into a room with 11 other NBA writers without access to his cell phone for two hours. Sounds like my worst nightmare. Danny, his hand out with Zach Lowe now.

He doesn't have time for us to pot about. On our low-leaf cornered, now the long two pod. I think that's where we should start. Tuesday's NBA draft lottery was basically everything the NBA had hoped for with the flattened odds. It was chaos. There were so many fan bases calling it rigged. You know, it hurt me a little,

given how much I appreciate tanking and how much I think it's a necessary evil with the way the NBA system is run, but I can't really deny that last night was truly high drama. It was definitely dramatic for sure. Yeah, so I think we'll just kick this thing off with a deep dive of maybe the first six teams

picking in the draft lottery and kind of work from there. I think there's plenty of time to talk draft now, so we might as well go as deep as we can. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'm a conspiracy guy, but I will admit Zion going to the Pells, that's not, I mean, if they were ever going to fix a draft, this would be the draft to fix.

So I guess they don't do that anymore. I don't know. So are, now are you saying that this would be a fix? Like, the Pelicans getting Zion is kind of like a consolation. See, I feel like the NBA wouldn't want that really. Yeah, right? Because to me, that says like the NBA is not fixing these. Number two with Memphis, too, these are two teams that have been in the headlines about, you know, oh, are they going to stay in their team? Are they going to stay in their city? Are they going to stay, for the foreseeable future. So, like, I kind of don't really see it. But, you know, of these top six teams that are picking first in the lottery, there kind of seems to be a pattern that's merged, right, Charks,

in terms of how their teams are built? We were kind of game planning this. And it feels like this year, really the top four, all four are kind of this weird in-between stage, right? Between, like, they've got veterans and they bring in young guys, and how do you find that balance? and how do veterans deal with having younger guys in the team? So it's just hard at the top.

Anthony Davis, do you think he's going to stay in New Orleans? I think he wants to stay and play with Zion? Do I think he wants to stay? No, I don't think he wants to stay. But I think David Griffin kind of has all of... He has all of the cards now. It doesn't really matter at this point.

He can kind of wait this thing out as long as he wants to because he has the crown jewel of the draft. And he has the crown jewel of maybe the next... few drafts. I think Zion might be the best prospect we'll see in a while. I don't know. You're more on top of the 2020 and 2021 drafts. I don't know. Yeah, we're really looking at like Zion and maybe like Imani Bates in maybe three years. He's supposed to be like the next big thing. He's going to be good. But I think I think in terms of a guy who can kind of completely change the way the game is played, Jay Williams had kind of talked about this

yesterday during the draft broadcast. He went through the draft and kind of looked at all the players that really changed the way that we saw the league. And I think, yeah, no, he's right. Zion is one of those guys because we just haven't seen a guy with his unique skill set

kind of lead a team before. I mean, it'd be crazy to think him and AD together. And then there's like, it's like, could it be like Simmons and Embed though if they played together? Do they both want to attack the rim? Would it make sense? Or would it be like Randall and AD all over? again. Right. Yeah, it would really be contingent on, I guess, the rest of the roster being

ideal fits. You would need so much spacing for that to work. I mean, AD has gotten so much better, you know, pulling up off the dribble, shooting threes, and stuff like that, but it's still not necessarily what he wants to do the most. And at a certain point, if Zion can't hit his threes and you're asking AD to basically do what Joe L. Embed did all of this season, kind of hesitantly shooting those threes just because no one else could on the Sixers, then it might be a kind of a tricky fit. And at that point, you're like, well, okay, I get it. Ad. wants out. Like, there's no point in having them try to figure this out on the fly when he's a goner anyway. See, that's what I'm thinking. I think, like, you know, we all love Zion, but if you're

Anthony Davis, it's like, I've been losing for seven years. and I have to wait like, I don't know, three or four years for this guy to really figure it out to get into his own. Like, by the time AD's 30, Zion's 22. I don't really know they're going to want to wait for Zion to figure it out. Right. Oh, man, that is, that is impossible to think.

And yeah, but I was thinking about it. Time comes out you fast, Danny. I was like, if A.D. is like, I still want to play for the Lakers. I mean, between playing for, what, an 18-year-old Zion and a 34-year-old LeBron James. That's 16 years of difference. Yeah, it almost feels like it's like,

it was like too hot, too cold versus just right. Would you can get into a little later, like, Ward be the best spot for AD. But, I mean, I do get the appeal. I mean, right, AD, Zion, and Drew Holiday is, I mean, that's a pretty nasty big three, too. That, yeah, that, the defensive potential with those three would be off the charts.

And you're basically asking for, you have three guys, across the positional spectrum that can create out of the pick and roll, who have good vision and who have good instincts creating for others. I mean, yeah, you basically surround them with big wings who could shoot threes, which, you know, it's not easy to find, but like if you can find those guys, you know, put Kenrich Williams out on the court a little bit longer and just have a bunch of big dudes. TCU.

You know, just have a bunch of big dudes on the floor and Drew. I don't know. it could work. It's crazy because like you have these two wild extremes, right? You could try to go like all in now with Zion, Drew, and AD, or you could like do a process times 10 and you could process AD and process Drew again and like try to get as many draft picks around Zion as you possibly could. Right.

Right. What if you put both those guys in the market? How many young guys could you bring in? You could have like 10. You know what I mean? Like it's crazy. I mean, so I mean, I guess at this point we would, we would have. have to start listing the possible Anthony Davis trades and kind of rank them by favorability.

I mean, where do they even start looking? I guess the Celtics one, right? Well, to me, there's four teams that jump out, right, that can make big offers. So Clippers, Lakers, Nick Celtics. They could all make, you know, just throw a huge amount of young guys and picks at them. And there's also like the Dark Horse possibilities, like the Nuggets maybe could get in on it or a number of teams. But, To me, like, I'm thinking about it right now. I think I'm like the clippers the most. Really?

If I can get SGA, Landry Shamit, Zubotch, and then like a bunch of picks, that's two for, that's a starting back court right there, SJ and Landry Shamit. And I think SJ could be an all-star point guard. Landry Shamit could be like next great, you know, catch and shoot two guard. Right.

With Zion, that'd be a pretty nasty top three. And so to balance out the money, would you need to include like Danila Gellonari? No, because the Clippers have a bunch of cap space. Oh, yeah, you're right. You're just trading Davis in the cap space.

Oh, that's interesting. And then if you get Davis in L.A., and then maybe you can pair him with Kauai Leonard instead of pairing up with LeBron or Zion. Right. And that's always kind of been my dream pairing.

Like put Kauai and 80 together two dudes who are just like real non-compelling personalities but who just really wants to play and who are just very good at what they do. That's a classic Danny Chow take. Let's put the two least compelling personalities together. And just like create a compelling product off of pure skill.

I don't know. Like that's my dream. Not a lot of passing though, if those are two top two players. Not like a, no elite playmaking there. Which I mean, whatever, though, I guess right at that point. You have Kauai and Davis. Kauai Davis and then you'd have Lou Williams off the bench. Here's my take.

Of all those teams, Clippers, Lakers, Knicks, Selt. I think I'll take SGA up any of them, all their young players on those four teams. That is a take. When you're looking at making these trades, really you're talking about can I get an all-star franchise young type player? So who's a centerpiece offer for each team? The Clippers is SGA. The Lakers, it's Brandon Ingram.

I like Ingram a lot, but with this whole blood clot thing, I mean, how can they even trade for him, right? Right. I mean, who knows at this point what's up with him? The Knicks, it's the centerpiece offer is... It's the third pick. It's the third pick. The third pick, yeah, right?

And, like, to me, if I was drafting SGA this year, to me, he's number two player in this draft easily. And then, of course, Celtics would be Tatum. Right. Although the Celtics offer would be interesting. I think it would be the most compelling just because I think the package that they would put out would immediately make the Pelicans, like,

a playoff-ready possible contender. Because I think they would have, have to include Horford in it. And you just kind of roll. So you're saying Horford, Tatum, Brown? Yeah. I mean, ideally, yes. I don't know if you get all of that, but yeah. That's a nasty team. But I think they're going to have to now. If the other teams are in the market and if AD's up for say, like they're going to have to ball in. But then what does Kyrie do, right? Right. What if Kyrie leaves, then it's Gordon Hayward and Anthony Davis and Terry Rozier? And then Davis is like, ah, what am I doing here? I mean, but think about it from the Pelicans for

perspective. That's Drew Holiday. That's Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, Zion, and Al Horford. That's pretty nice. Drew Holiday with those guys is nice. That's a pretty nice team. That's an extremely strong defensive team. And then you can kind of have... Forford, Zion, Tatum, Brown, Holiday. Yeah, that is nasty. Yeah. If they, see, if they can get that, that's a... And like, look, Al Horford probably leaves after one season, but like, you're fine with that. And the thing with Horford, though, so he has a player option for his last year, and that's due on June 29th before free agency starts. My guess is he's not going to pick it up because he's going to want to either way, and if he stayed in Boston, he's going to want to get a longer deal right now, right? Right, yeah.

He'll want to parlay that last year to get a longer, more secure contract. Exactly. And there have been reports that he would be willing to take on a team-friendly contract to stay in Boston. So, yeah, if they do trade him, I mean, it definitely wouldn't be, he wouldn't be happy about it. Okay, so yeah, let's take that off a table. I don't think Horford, I think if you're Boston, you're training for Davis, you're assuming Horford's player takes his player option, doesn't take it, Kerry doesn't take it, and train Davis into space.

Because at that point, Boston cleared $50 million. So it'll be looking at a Tatum Brown deal. So would you rather have Tatum and Brown or SGA and sham? I'm saying, I'm telling you, I think SJ is better than all of them. to me he's a 6-6-6-point guard, get his own shot wherever he wants, super high basketball cue, high IQ.

His jumper's getting better every game, it seems like. I mean, he had like 25 points against the Warriors in the playoffs in one of those games. Yeah. He's a three-position defender. I mean, to me,

I think he's the highest thing of all those guys. I wonder if his body can really develop to kind of withstand, you know, being a three-positioned, a three-position defender,

going forward. I don't know if he necessarily has the frame for that. I look at a guy like Frank Neil Aquino who is like nowhere near as good as SGA, but he does have the frame to actually develop into one despite being

labeled a point guard entering the draft. I wonder how his body develops, but yeah, no, you're right. His skill set is almost ideal for the type of point guard that that most teams are looking for these days.

And then if you look at it like, with Shamit, too. Like, shamit was probably, he was probably like the biggest surprise of his rookie class, right? Yeah.

Like, I imagine it's Shammit playing off Zion. How many open three she's going to get? Right. Yeah. And Shamit is like one of the plus minus net rating gods. Like,

whenever he's on the floor, he just makes the team better just because he knows exactly what he's doing. He's basically another JJ Redick on the floor. I don't know. That's what I'm, that's what I'm thinking if I'm the Pelicans. But I guess we should talk Lakers too, right?

Lakers and the mix would be in that mix also. Right. So Lakers, probably be Lanzo, Kuzma, Ingram, and the pick. Is their trade? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, with the Lakers, it really boils down to, like, okay, can the medicals, you know, clear Brandon Ingram completely?

Like, will there be a lingering scare? Will there always be a lingering scare that, you know, the blood clots can kind of resurface. I think he's still the biggest talent of the hall that they can get out of any of these teams. But yeah, I think that is such a...

You know, it's a factor that definitely kind of diminishes the Lakers deal or their offer. I mean, it almost got underplayed, I felt like, because someone else was going on when it happened. But that's like a franchise-changing diagnosis. I mean, obviously, life-taining diagnosis for him.

You don't want him to play that either. But to me, I just know how you can trade Anthony Davis for a guy who might never play again or who might always have him hanging over his career. Right. Look, do the Knicks have a credible offer, to be honest? I guess in comparison to the rest of these guys, I'm going to say no. So you have number three, Kevin Knox. You probably got to throw old Mitchell Robinson.

he had a really good rookie year. Yeah. So Knox Robinson number three pick, Dennis, Trier. They got a lot of young guys, but I don't know. They have a lot of young guys, but they... Russell Robinson's probably the best prospect, right? They all kind of feel like B-minus guys, like, at their very best, you know? Robinson, though.

Yeah. Yeah, a huge surprise. A true, like, shot-blocking savant, guy who can, like... I mean, with him and Zion together, like, how many threes are getting blocked? Yeah, though I guess you wonder if you're building around Zion, do you want a non-shooting big, no matter how good defensively he is? Right, yeah. And you'd kind of written about that earlier this season about how Zion can kind of be the next great playmaking five,

the next great playmaking center in the vein of Janus and the vein of LeBron. Or Draymond even, you know? Or Draymond, yeah. And right, it's like, when you have Draymond, you've got to go small at some point. You got to get that big off the floor so he has the open lane to the basket. So yeah, I think the Knicks would be the lowest of the sure of those four. Man, it's going to be crazy. I don't know.

Like, there's so many different options, so many possibilities. I think worth bringing up, too, like, if you were going to process the Pelicans, the lottery odds being changed make that less appealing. I think so. I mean. I mean, right? The suns are sitting at number six right now, and the Bulls are at seven. What a bummer for those teams.

Man, yeah, that's brutal. Yeah, like another team that will have to decide whether or not it's in full-scale rebuild or not is the Memphis Grizzlies who beat the odds to land the number two pick. This should be a huge deal, but the Grizzlies are kind of cursed. Like, they've had the number two pick in the legendary 2003 draft, which they had to convey to Detroit because of a trade that they made in 1997. Oh, yeah, that's right. So if they had number one, they would have kept the pick. If they had, that's number one. Yeah.

Yeah, for the Otis Thorpe trade. And they had the number two pick in 2009, the Blake Griffin year, which also could have landed them James Hardin or Steph Curry. Instead, they got Hashim the beat. And now, Zion. So where do we land with the Grizzlies at number two? It's between... I mean, it seems like they're looking at RJ and Jha, right? Those are the two guys that have kind of separated themselves after Zion a little bit.

And so then it feels like it's a pretty simple... like calculation. So if you draft John Moran, that you probably move Mike Connolly pretty soon. And then you're starting scratch with Jha and Jared Jackson. If you draft RJ, are you thinking, well, we're just going to try to win with Conley and you still have a younger team around him? I guess for me, it comes down to how fungible you think the positions are. Like I think if you think RJ has all of the requisite skills to be a two-way

versatile wing, a guy who can handle the ball, defend, eventually learn how to shoot, maybe even become like a small ball four down the road, then maybe that's more valuable than a skinny six-foot three point guard. Regardless of, you know,

how athletic, how, you know, mesmerizing John Morant is. I think with Jah, we talked about this during the draft, like, it's all about that pull-up jump shot. I think he's got by far the highest basketball IQ of all the guards in this draft. of like your garlands, your whites, all those guys.

Like, John Moran is the guy, like, you trust his read for the game, his feel for the game, understanding when to pass, one to shoot. And it's like, and he was a great athlete in college, but in the NBA, can he be a consistent pull-up three-point shooter? Because if he can be that player, that player in Jaron Jackson is a pretty interesting one too, right? Right. If Jha can be like your spread pick and roll point card,

who can pass out of it really easily, then he could be a franchise player. I mean, I can't imagine them sticking with Conley. like regardless of who they draft. I think they have to find a way to kind of offload that contract. This team is not built to contend. This team is like barely built to make the playoffs at this point. So I don't really see a reason why they would hold on to Conley

other than it being literally the last vestige of grid and grind. Yeah, I think so because to me, if you get RJ in here, it doesn't really change much about, like he's not going to be, I don't think an instant impact guy who's going to change a franchise. He's a long-term player. So yeah, at that point, can you get anything for Conley, right?

Wouldn't Conley be one of the better players in the market if you put him out there? Right. In my dreams, the Mark Gassal trade that Toronto pulled off would have included Conley as well. I think I would have, like, shipped Kyle Lowry over to Memphis. But, yeah, I think,

think he still has value. He put up, you know, one of his best statistical, at least raw statistical seasons in his career last season after coming back from that kind of weird Achilles bone spur injury that he had that that sidelined him during the Grizzlies's like worst season in forever. I mean, the one that got them JJJ. So yeah, I think he still has value. I think all of his skills are still translate. He's he's not too old. He's, he's, he's, on the wrong side of 30, sure, but I think he has a game that can age pretty gracefully.

Yeah, it seems like he might try him to like even Utah or Indiana, one of these teams with Cap Space that doesn't get a big prospect or doesn't get a big star and then maybe get some young guys for him. I think to me, I would just go with J. over RJ, but I really could jog

Dillon Wright backward. That's pretty fun. Do you have anything else to say about the Grizzlies? No, let's keep moving. All right. So the number three pick goes to the Knicks. I'm actually wearing a fun shirt by an artist named Andrew Quo. You may know him as Earl Boykins on social media. It's a mock jersey that has the 2016-17 Knicks as the world champions of basketball.

Who was on that team? Derek Rose, Kuzminskis. Oh, the original super team. Yeah, Porzingis, Courtney Lee, Ron Baker, and Carmelo Anthony. Dream Team. It was another classic Danny moment in the middle of post-lottery.

Let me tell you about a shirt I'm wearing four years ago. Shout out of Andrew Quo, though. That's cool. Yeah, shout them out. I don't know what to make of what the Knicks are supposed to do here. I mean, I think, like, if you're of them,

you have to know, right? Are you getting KED and Kyrie, or are you not? Yeah. Like, I mean, everyone thinks they are, but are they? If they're coming, it really changes the dynamic. I was just talking about that. Can you imagine Kyrie with a number three pick and him like telling RJ about how he has to spot up off the ball and sacrifice?

Yeah, and that's literally RJ's worst skill. He has never had to play off the ball. Like, to me, if you're bringing those two guys in, you really can't draft RJ. And I'm not sure you can draft anyone. I don't know that any young guy playing with KD and Kairi is really going to be good for their careers. Right. I mean, at that point, you're like, I mean, if you're drafting for fit because you know that Kyrie and Katie are coming, then it's like, okay, what kind of player do we, would we really

like to have? And then it becomes what, DeAndre Hunter, guy who could switch, a guy who can play a couple positions? Like, what's the move here? I don't think you can draft for fit in the top three. Yeah, exactly. I want to get a role player, not knowing that that role player to even. make sense or even that will be acceptable for Katie and Kyrie.

Like, even 3-&D guys on elite teams are generally older players. That would be the best case scenario in which it's kind of, okay, we have our two superstars. Whatever we do here is just kind of house money. What happens if they don't get either guy, if they don't get anything? I mean, if they're trying to build it on RJ and Dennis Smith, that's like the darkest timeline, right? R.J. Dennis Smith, Kevin Knox just the true like inefficiency all-stars.

Alonzo Trier, I mean, you got a lot of guys who want to take shots, that's for sure. I mean, to me, like, all these young guys are going to have to go from New York because all these guys are ball-dominant guys who don't want to play off anyone. Yeah, and so basically the Knicks are kind of stuck in like a weird,

I mean, it's a worse situation than the Lakers. even if they... No, I can't say that. No, yeah. Yeah, it's definitely not because... Yeah, you would have KD. And that changes literally everything. I will say this.

There's one guy in this draft who you could draft right now at three and who would make the Knicks a lot better team no matter who is around him. And that's our guy, Brandon Clark. Yeah. Chart, you have him ranked number two?

Yeah. I mean, to me, he's like... I think he's got some Sean Marion in his game. That's what I was thinking, putting him there. Yeah. To me, he's like a multi-picion defender. I mean, probably other than Zion, the best athlete in draft, high basketball IQ. His jump shot has really developed.

Like, I think he'd be great at like playing off KD, running around, cutting to the rim, defending, doing garbage man stuff. But I mean, like, I wonder at what point do you say forget draft ranges and draft the best player, right? We get so caught in these boxes, oh, well, John R.J. are the number two and three players. And there's the Culver, Garland, Hunter range. Right, but it's like everyone says this draft is weak,

so why I get locked into these ranges that don't mean anything anyways. Right. Yeah, I've kind of been in that same mode all season. I thought the reason why this draft is so compelling is not because of necessarily the talent, but because the teams that are looking in these ranges will have such different priorities from one another.

And that is going to shake up the draft. I think it'll shake up the draft in ways that we haven't seen since like maybe 2016, but even 2016, it was because the kings were doing some wild, wild stuff that was just like, what is going on? Like, Thauntmaker went 10 and then Papayanas went, what, 11 or 12, something like that? Yeah, yeah. It was just like, random stuff started happening. Whereas here, I think it's really like, okay, each team has their own set of priorities and there

just aren't that many guys that have the talent level that would kind of override, you know, a team's general game plan. I think it's going to be pretty interesting. Yeah, it's crazy. Like, even in any most drafts, like, you're like, okay, who's the third best player? Who's the fourth best player? Let's, let's debate RJ and job. But you look at these teams, it's really about fit in the NBA, their picture, their place in the league, their free agency status. Like, I'm looking at, at this, like, I feel like there's almost no chance the Knicks and the Lakers make these picks, right? Like, I mean, realistically,

if RJ's the guy at three for whoever is going to take him, that's a trade, that's going to be traded. There's just no way you can bring RG into play with LeBron or Katie. It doesn't make any sense. But man, it's like, what exactly is the trade value for these picks

when all we're saying is just like a bunch of nays saying about, you know, oh, these guys aren't great, oh, blah, blah, blah. Like, what That's the other question too, right? Who's trading up into this draft? Yeah. I mean, I think COC had a good point in his little breakdown.

We're talking about trading down. That might be the way to do it. Like, you trade three spots back and get a veteran. I don't know, like Phoenix at 6. If they're going to offer T.J. Warren and their pick, I wouldn't mind T.J. Warren. Now they can shoot threes in a lot of these teams. Then you kind of run into the wizard's trap of trading, what,

the fifth pick and Mike Miller for Randy Ford. You know? No, it was the fifth pick for Miller and Foy. Oh, Miller and Foy, okay. Yeah. Well, which either way, it doesn't really matter. That's the thing, too. Maybe the guys in these ranges aren't the best players, but the third, fourth, and fifth best player in this draft,

they might get taken in the 20s. And that player is probably going to be worth a really good piece in a trade. So it's hard to trade a guy for a mediocre veteran. Like, I'm going to league, like, who would be makes sense besides, like, Bradley Beale? who would make sense to be traded for a top pick? Justice Winslow? Like if Miami wants to rebuild?

I guess. His contract isn't too exorbitant, is it? Like, he's still on... Yeah, but it's not very long either. Yeah. I think it's only two more years left. Right. Yeah, that's the thing.

Like, I'm looking at these teams, and obviously the next pick is the Lakers. It's like, all these teams are clamoring to trade for AD. But in terms of, oh, the Lakers became winners because they got this fourth pick. Yeah, sure. but like, where exactly is it going? What exactly can they do with it?

I mean, you can always trade for Kevin Love. You know, run the cows back again. Oh, my God. Right. I'm sure I'm sure Los Angeles would love that. Bring back their old Bruin? Couldn't they sign Kyrie and train for Kevin Love? Let's bring back the calves.

I don't even know if I'm being facetious right now. Like, I'm pretty sure Lakers' fans would actually hate it. Yeah, but I mean, with LeBron, that maybe would make sense. I don't know. Give up on a stretch 5 again. I mean, there have been, there have been, like, murmurs that, like, Kyrie would be down to go to L.A.

So, Mamba mentality and whatnot. Maybe, like, if you're looking at guys, how about someone like Tori and Prince? KOC was saying he was available at the deadline. Right. Like, a younger veteran who wants to get paid soon. Maybe that's the kind of play.

I mean, Torian Prince would be help a lot of these teams in the top five. Like, he'd be great in New York or L.A. He kind of got lost in the shuffle and the Hawks. He had a pretty down season. And his numbers were basically still all there, but his efficiency dropped, and there just felt like a little bit of stagnation. But yeah, he's one of those guys

who you can kind of envision on any team, just because he has a size, he has the defensive prowess, and he has, you know, theoretical ability to be like a secondary, tertiary ball handler. I mean, he's got way more skills than most 3MD wings for sure.

Oh, yeah. In terms of ball handling, passing and creating his own shot. Like, you think about... me, that's the kind of guy you would want more than a veteran, like a young veteran who's already done his first three years, but is still growing as a player for a top five pick. I thought about him when I thought about, oh, imagine, you know, the Sixers having him instead of, you know, James Ennis.

James Ennis had a pretty good series, like, against the Raptors, but, you know, let's be real, like, he's, he has a pretty low ceiling, or imagine, you know, the Rockets with him, having a guy who is 6'8 and who can kind of create off the dribble, create his own shot. who has the body type of like a power forward, a modern power forward. It would have been really interesting. So, yeah, no, Torin Prince is definitely a guy

who would be worth targeting. Sure. I've got a name for you. How about DeBontas, the bonus? Hmm. Right. Are the pay, you're going to pay this guy and have two centers?

Probably not. Right. Maybe to get like a three-team trade going. Like, go out for someone. And like, you put some bonus with KD, it'd be kind of interesting. Because KED could kind of cover from as a shot blocker,

great space for him in the rim. I mean, I was thinking, like, when you were mentioning, like, Mike Conley trades and trading him into the Pacers, I was thinking, I mean, maybe DeMontes could work for Memphis. Oh, my God. If you could trade Sabonis for Conno's for Conley, that'd be incredible. Sabonis and Jackson be perfect together. Right.

But I think that's the kind of guy if, like, if you go, once you go past Mike Conley, Bradley Beale, I'm thinking the kind of guys you get into trade are those kind of young guys coming up for their first big contract. That kind of player might make sense for a top five pick. also is Andrew Wiggins he's probably out there I got some I got some

some flack for suggesting the the Wiggins for Chris Paul trade a few weeks ago but I I stand by it I think that's a pretty funny trade I think Minnesota would deal him

for a pick though yeah you know let's talk about the Lakers it's the number four pick they moved up they should be happy should they be happy what can they really do with here?

Well, the first thing I thought when I saw the pick was like, how much authority does LeBron have in the organization? He's got two club sports guys who could be there and Cam Reddish and Darius Garland. Like, is he making this pick or are the Lakers making this pick?

If they keep it. Garland doesn't really make sense with the way their team works. Doesn't it, though? Think about it. If you have Garland, you can play Lonzo at 2. Garland could be like an elite Mario Chalmers, which sounds bad, but he could score a lot of buckets.

And if you have Lonzo playing defense in the back court and Garland's space in the floor, it wouldn't be crazy. And he could play off LeBron easy. Yeah, no, that's true. And I think one thing with Garland that you can definitely count on is, look, LeBron has been clamoring for having guys who can create their own shot for years. And whether or not that's actually what his teams need is up for debate. but Garland can absolutely create his own shot.

He's so crafty, has very, very good range from NBA 3. Can develop a little bit more of a flurry game, but he's definitely got the requisite skill set to be a high-level offensive player in the NBA. And then I'm thinking also, I feel like this is a kind of team. If players are running it,

they're going to believe in Cam Reddish. I remember I was reading something like in the athletic and they were talking to players at the start of the season, And they are all saying they thought Reddish was better than a Zion or RJ. And like if you're a player, you look at Cam, look at his size, shooting abilities, fluidity. I can totally see LeBron watching Cam going to work out and fall in love with him, right? Right. And be like, oh, this is a big wing I always needed.

Also, like, okay, so like I've been on this Jared, Jared Culver height, truthing thing for a bit. But yesterday, they were sitting next to each other. Cam Rudish is so much bigger than Jared Culver. He is enormous. He is enormous. Clover's like 6-566. Yeah.

Cam Reddish is built already like an NBA level, like vet power forward. He's huge. And the fact that he can combine that with a little bit of fluidity with a little bit of ball handling ability, theoretical, you know, three-point shooting ability. Everything we've seen from him at Duke is just very kind of theoretical other than the actual misses that he made. The defense wasn't bad, though. Yeah, the defense... He had a really high steel rate.

He kind of guarded pretty well. So, yeah, I can totally see teams talking themselves into him during the combine process, because this is exactly the time where you start... You kind of reset your evaluations. Yeah, and the things that he's bad at aren't really, like, work out things. It's like reading the floor, making layups and traffic, like that kind of stuff, kind of slides to the background, whereas the things he does well, translate really well to a workout to a one-on-one situation.

But I still think right now, even if we talk about, like, LeBron is, the only thing really is if the Lakers, like, you know what, LeBron, we're drafting for the long term, come build this thing we're building, and we're not really worrying about your timetable right now. Maybe that's what they would think. But if LeBron's making decisions, I feel like he's going to have to get moved. Because he's just not going to deal with a 19-year-old. You've seen that over his career. Like, Kyrie, to all these guys, like, trying to win now, it's hard with 19-year-old.

year olds. Almost impossible. And now we transition to LeBron's former team. The Cleveland Cavaliers who are stuck with, what is this, the fifth pick? Yeah. They were clearly pining for Zion, clearly pining for a superstar.

You get to the fifth pick, and what you're looking at is another kind of supporting player, maybe someone to pair with Colin Sexton, but is that even a viable team-building strategy? I mean, I think, you're seeing with the calves at five, like how these lottery odds are getting changed.

It is tough to start from scratch and then be like drafting five, six, seven for, you know, five years. You could go absolutely nowhere, right? Yeah, as the magic can attest for years. Right. Sexton was the eighth pick last year. Yep. Or, I think, yeah, he was the eighth or seventh. And just like the odds of getting an all-star at that point are pretty low.

So to me, like, I don't even know. I guess you built around Colin Sexton, right? We weren't either one else really a big Sexton guy. Yeah, I was just scoring guard. Pretty low on him. I mean, he shot the three very well, and he shot the mid-range fairly well. I just don't trust his instincts in the pick-and-roll,

and I don't know how a guard his size can kind of really fair if you can't really navigate the pick-and-roll well. So I'm not bullish on building around him as, like, a corner-stress. Stone, but at this point, like, what, what else are you really doing? What else can you really do? Yeah, it's tough because, and not only that, if you have Sexton running, like, holding the ball most of the game, you'd better have a guy who can shoot around him because he's not going to get a very much chance to hold the ball beyond spot-up threes. So that's what I worry about with, like, a Jared Culver. Yeah. If he goes to Cleveland and he's spotting up off Sexton, is he really going

a chance to show his game or is he really going to stagnate? Right. And, and with Culver, it's a lot of, again, theoretical three-point shooting ability. His stroke isn't beautiful. It's definitely not a consistent three-point shot yet. And so you're asking him to play off the ball when he's a kind of guy who can really kind of emerge and develop as a lead facilitator if a team wanted him in that role. I think he certainly has the craftiness.

He certainly has the poise and the patience to do it. But yeah, it just kind of seems like in, unlikely fit. But then what else can you do? Because you're probably not going to drafts another combo guard, right? So like Kobe White, there, Darry Scarlin, if they're there, are not going to be drafted. So then it's like DeAndre Hunter. Do you go for a bigger player? Do you go for like a spot-up wing like Hunter? You go for a Jackson Hayes even to pair with... Oh, to give them a better lob target. Yeah.

This kind of like early mid-lotto, like literally anything after the kind of Zion jaw race just gets kind of sad. It gets kind of really disappointing. Like, you really have to kind of dig to find out what you want from these prospects. And then suddenly, it goes back to everything that we've been talking about for this entire podcast. It's like you have to find the right fit because the talent's not going to override a lot of it. Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, it's just like you've got to be really aggressive building out your roster. Like, you've really got to hope Chetty Osmond

becomes a long-term piece if you're Cleveland's. Because you're going to have to have multiple young guys if you're not going to have a star. So you start from scratch. Maybe you can, can you trade love for anything

at this point, you think? Yes. I mean, you can trade anyone, but are they getting... To get value back, though. Yeah, are they getting value back? I don't think so. It definitely wouldn't be the hall

that they would hope for out of, you know, a guy they're paying 30 plus mill. Yeah, I feel like if you're the Cavs, you better be drafting. I mean, I guess it's obvious, but like, I think once you're at five,

I wouldn't even worry about these ranges. Like, you just draft the player you think is the best and the best fit for your franchise and just, you know, that's why you're there. That's why you make the big bucks to make these decisions. Don't let people like us determine it by saying, oh, this is the draft range.

You have to draft DeAndre Hunter here because this is the spot. It makes sense. To me, that's where you get really get in trouble. Yeah, and a similar team that's kind of facing the same kind of, you know, identity crisis going forward. It's the sons, you know, they've kind of worked Booker into this lead guard role. But is that necessarily sustainable, given his injury history?

Do they want to have another, you know, primary guy to kind of offload his responsibilities? Do they draft a point guard, or do they not? I feel like this one makes sense for Garland. I don't know, but then you're so bad on defense if you have Garland, Booker, and Aiton. But if you have gone and Booker, you're shooting a lot of threes, right? Couldn't that be like a Dame CJ thing eventually at the worst? Not at the worst, but like as a possible outcome. Right.

And, you know, we haven't brought up Aiden yet. Aiden had, you know, a very efficient, you know, offensive season for the Suns, one of the most offensive seasons of Rookie's ever had. They've clearly established a core that they like. Yeah, I think that's kind of the move, right? want to surround Aiton with as many three-point shooters as possible, and as many guys who can kind of create off the dribble as possible. But if Garland's gone, and then do you go Kobe White,

he's pretty erratic right now. He's a good shooter. He's got size, at least. Like, as I'm doing this, as we're doing this exercise, I kind of get the feeling the top five picks are going to be Zion, RJ, jaw, Garland, and Reddish in some order. That's how I, that's what my feel right now in terms of skill. sets and what is going to track teams.

That's my suspicion right now, is those are top five picks. So at six, what do you do then? Yeah, I think, I mean, right after that, I think the Bulls and Sons are definitely most needy of just having someone who can play the point. So I think either of them would be fine

with Garland or Kobe White. I actually like Kobe White for the Sons. He just gives them a little bit more size, a little bit more leeway in terms of defense. than Garland does. So I think you're fine with that. The one thing like Kobe White, he's kind of erratic right now.

Right. Do you really want to deal with him growing into being a player? That's like a long-term play. I like Kobe White a lot. I think he's a top five overall talent, but you draft Kobe White and it's not going to be like, we're going to be good tomorrow.

Right. You're thinking when he's, at the end of his drinking content in three seasons, maybe he's got to figure out. Hey, have you heard about Turo? So Turo is a pure, It appears car sharing marketplace where you can basically book any car you want, wherever you want it from a community of different hosts. It's available for cities across the country, cities across the world, U.S., Canada, UK, Germany.

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or Google Play, or visit Turo.com. Get $25 off your first trip. when you sign up for Turro and use the promo code Ringer 25 at checkout. Terms apply. I think it's time to get into a little bit of playoff news. I think we kind of have to, you know? Like these conference finals series...

Unfortunately, I want to talk the Wolves at 11. We'll get back to that later. So I think we'll start off with the Western Conference Finals game one played yesterday. It was... It went about as well as I thought it would. The Warriors won. I can't believe they played Ennis Canter, what, 35 minutes or something? Hey, at least he had 16 rebounds, you know?

Yeah, it's like, you don't even have to watch the game. Oh, Ennis Canter played 3-5 minutes against the Warriors. I can't tell you the result. Like, do you see how often they were dropping screens on Steph? Like, that's going to work. It was ridiculous. Like, Ennis Canter at any given moment was basically way deep in the paint. Like, he was behind the free throw line on any of these, on any of these Steph screens.

And Steph was just shooting pull-ups with. impunity. It was, it was incredible. The worst part about it, at the end of the first half, there was like three possessions, like 10 seconds left. It's like, at that point, make a substitution for a smaller player. It's the end of the game anyways, end of the half, except for like 10 points in last minute.

Right. After the game, reporters were questioning Terry Stott's about, you know, his game plan. And they were like, oh, shouldn't you be, you know, trapping these guys a little bit more? You know, it seemed to help with the rockets. And he kind of like sniped back at

them being like, oh, well, you know, Curry went off for like 33 in the second half against the Rockets. So like, why? And just like, well, you know, because this has kind of been proven to work from time to time and because you can't really gauge how well a defense is playing off of just one game, especially in a seven game series. So I'm, I don't know. I'm thinking a lot more Zach Collins.

We've been saying this for the entire season. More Zach Collins, I guess more Meno at the five, more. like we're just running the hits right now with the right you know not even the hits like the really mediocre like back of the album cuts this is a class yeah classic charks uh charksisms okay so i guess but big picture though as i'm watching this it does make you appreciate what the warriors did by playing draymond at the five right i feel like there's so many teams who would never have done it who would never have said you know what draymond is best with a spread floor playing four on threes,

shooters around him, will trust in the guard bigger players. There are so many teams who won't downsize against Dremont, right? They're playing Dremont and Kavanaugh at center. What is the harm in playing a smaller player at that point? Right, right. And there's so many coaches who are still afraid of downsize.

Well, in that situation, that means if Dremont goes to Portland, he has three in Portland if he goes there and never it plays, it becomes like Alf Rukamino. You know what I mean? Like, so much is about like having that player in that right role. I don't know.

If Portland's not going to play Al Farouk at the four and the five, what's the point? You know, it's even crazier. They're playing Al-Fruke and Harkless, and they still had C.J. Garden Clay Thompson. Yeah. Like, why are you playing these two wings so they can match up with Dremont and Iguodala? How much does that make? Like, there's a lot of talk about how these warriors without Katie has kind of looked a little bit more like, you know, the Warriors of Old. It kind of has a little bit more of a, I don't know, a third.

thrilling atmosphere to their games. But part of that is just these Blazers kind of look like, you know, a team from 2015 that has no idea how to how to defend this. And they're kind of playing it in such a conservative style that you're like, okay, yeah, we're just watching a retro series from 2016. Well, I mean, it feels like they're going to make the move probably game three in Portland. Right? That'd be my guess.

Like they'll run it out here in Golden State, lose twice, and then go smaller. and it's like you're the underdog. You can't afford to waste time with stuff that you know is not going to work. Right. Like, do you really think Canner has a chance of staying on the floor in the series

if you're the coach? How can you think that? Like, just how? But, you know, either way, I don't know, they have much of a chance, to be honest. All right. Next series, Rafters bucks?

I mean, that's really it. That's really it. Rafters bucks, game one, Wednesday, tonight. You wrote a Pee's, piece about how the Raptors have kind of exercised their demons a little bit in terms of leaving LeBron.

But then there's another LeBron right on the horizon, right there in front of them. And you don't see this as a very good series. Oh, I was really impressed watching that Buck Celtic series. I feel like everyone was talking about how the Seleks imploded. But the Bucks really pushed them to that point. Like, they were playing like those fever ballouts I've always wanted. Yannis at the 5. and they're running Janice the 5 with like Bledso as a screener

and the pick and roll and they're playing four shooters. Like how do you defend that? Right. With any amount of personnel, honestly. Yeah. And I think you made a great point. They're basically LeBron's Cavs, but with the best defense in the league.

So to me, I just look at like Toronto, maybe I'm looking at being a prisoner of the moment and looking too much at Philadelphia series, but Toronto just looked so punchless after Kauai. It's just hard for me since scoring enough points to keep up. But what do they have to do to stay in the series? I mean, they need Pascal Seacom to be healthy. I think the calf injury or whatever it was

kind of slowed him down and kind of eroded at his confidence. That game seven was just like a really tough, tough go. He was so passive. He wasn't looking to attack the ball. And that's kind of his, that is his biggest purpose on the team. You know, as a four, as a five, being able to just, drive from anywhere out on the court and really create a lot of pressure on the defense and he just wasn't able to do that. If they can't get 100% out of him, it's going to be a rough series because

they just don't have the depth. They don't have the size in their bench to really like counter a lot of the kind of waves of long athletic guys that the bucks have. And like, look, when Eric Bledso has a bad game, they have a George Hill. I don't think the Raptors necessarily have. that kind of next man up. Yeah, that's one of the big surprise. I may not a surprise, but like, their bench this year. After they tried Dilan Wright with O.G. being out. Really, Van Vleet's struggling, is really surprised me.

I thought he'd have a really good second year, but he really took a step back. Yeah, and it's just rough for a guy like Van Vleet to really take over in a playoff series. I mean, look, game seven against the Sixers, the two-point guard lineup, Kyle Lowry, Fred Van Vandleet was incredible, and they really kind of gout. Alvinized the team and served as a catalyst for that win and kind of allowed Kauai to take them home. But yeah, this is another series in which Kauai is going to have to take them home. And, you know, when he gets matched up with Janus and at first he's going to get matched up with Chris Middleton, these two are great defenders. And I just don't know if the Raptors have the counters, but I, as a Raptors fan, I can say that now, I want to believe.

Yeah, Danny is on the voice of the Raptors for sure. I want to believe, you know? I don't think it does as dunzo as you do. Just put it there. I think as you were talking, like with Seyakum, he's got to be aggressive because Janus loves to freelance off guys. Yeah. Like, Janus is kind of like Draymond.

If you can play a non-shooter, it's over because you can play like 5-1-4 on defense. He can block shots anywhere on the floor. He can get back to his man really fast. He's got to be engaged on defense. So if I'm trying to think of the Raptors, I probably need Kowai, Domit, Middleton, to the point where Janus is to grow. guard Kauai. That's step one.

Like if Kauai let's a Middleton guard, I think they have no chance. So step one is going to get Ghani. And then if you have Middleton on Siakum, maybe you get Siakum going. And then, you know, it always goes back to OG in Toronto. I need my T-800 lineup. I need it in this series. OG. I think they're going to play off Gasol and Abaka so bad. They're going to attack them on offense and play off them on defense. No, absolutely. And I think for the Raptors to have a legitimate shot against

this team. They need OG back, but it's not looking good. He's, I think, limited in practices right now. I think they're going to like reevaluate where he is in a week. That's just not enough time. It's not enough time for him to kind of get back into the game flow and to have to play, you know, however many games it ends up being against the best regular season in the NBA with one of the best players in the NBA. That's a lot to ask. They need a size, though. This is the last stand of Gassal and Lowry. I'm not sure those guys going down with pop guns blazing is going to do. This is a terrible way to end the podcast.

Hey, we should talk about Yoniski stuff before we get out of here. That was awesome. We should talk about that. Yeah, thank you. I just, the first thing that popped in my head during the regular season was just like, man, this guy's like the son of refugees. And Milwaukee's refugee community isn't very big, but it's unique.

I think they have the biggest population of Rohingya, which is... That was fast. Yeah, they are an ethnic religious minority based in Myanmar, which is facing, you know, obviously a huge refugee crisis. And they are some of the most persecuted people in the world. And they, the lucky ones get to arrive in America, and it's just such a struggle for them to kind of adjust to life. but they've managed in Milwaukee in there

and they're trying to build for a future. And I think Janus being the kind of, you know, player he is, but also with the background that he's coming from, can serve as a really strong, you know, example, a really strong symbol for refugees moving forward. How long were you out there? I was out there for a week.

I talked to, you know, members of the Rohingya community, and members of the Syrian community, two of the biggest refugee crises in the world exist, you know, in Syria, exist in Myanmar. So it was just a nice way to kind of put things in perspective and the kind of impact that sports kind of has outside of just being entertainment, you know. Yeah, I mean, for sure. And with Janus, it's like, that's part of his story. That's the reason no one knew who he was until the draft. Absolutely.

He couldn't play. Yeah, I think in your article, you were saying he had a passport, right? they had the draft? Yeah, like he couldn't play for professional teams out in Greece. He couldn't play, you know, how they get discovered a lot of these international guys is, you know, through Hoops Summit, through, you know, these international tournaments. He couldn't travel outside of the country because he was undocumented. There was just no way for him to do it. And the Greek government only gave him a passport a month before the NBA draft because he was going to kind of paint them in, you know, a favorable.

light. But like, there is definitely opposition in the government that completely hate his guts. And it's like, that's something that he'll have to deal with for, you know, the rest of his life. Yeah, man, it's definitely bigger than basketball. That was an awesome story. Check it out in the ringer today. Or it'll be up there for a while, obviously. That was really cool. Yeah. That's all the time we have for today. Thanks for listening. Thanks to Bobby Wagner for producing. Until next week.