The Ringer NBA Show - NBA Draft Lottery: Trade For a Vet or Keep the Pick? | Group Chat

Episode Date: June 23, 2022

Justin starts by giving his instant reaction to Jerami Grant being traded to the Portland Trail Blazers, which happened after we initially recorded the show. Then Justin, Rob, and Wos are joined by J. Kyle Mann to discuss teams 4 through 11 in the draft and whether they should keep their picks or trade for a vet (9:53). They wrap up with the latest on Kyrie Irving and whether he will stay in Brooklyn (1:04:15). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Guest: J. Kyle Mann Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Available on Spotify. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier. But first, we have a trade to discuss. We recorded an episode with Jay Kyle Mann earlier in the day going through some of the lottery teams, determining whether or not those teams should trade the pick that they have or what player they should choose. if they do stay in their draft slot. But just so happened that two of those teams swung a trade later in the day on Wednesday

after we recorded. The Detroit Pistons are sending Jeremy Grant to the Portland Trailblazers for a protected 2025 draft pick, first round pick. There are some second round picks in the mix there, but that's the basis of the trade here. So let's talk about the Trailblazers first. I think that's more interesting for them because they pretty much handled all family business at last year's trade deadline, jettisoning pretty much every player from the Neal Lashay era except for Damien Lillard.

And you would think based on that, that they would take kind of a slower approach and maybe like build through the draft. They have the number seven overall pick in this year's draft. They keep that pick in this trade, which is pretty important. But they deal a 2025 pick that they got from New Orleans that is now coming from Milwaukee in the trade for C.J. McCollum. So in a roundabout way, they pretty much traded C.J. McCollum for Grant and a bunch of other stuff, including Josh Hart. We'll see if he ends up with the team. He has a non-guaranteed contract coming up here.

So really what you have with the Trailblazers is Damien Lillard. You have Anthony Simons, who's a restricted free agent. You expect him to come back. You have Josh Hart, as you mentioned. Jeremy Grant, probably at the four, and we'll see what they do with the five with Yusuf Nurkich. And while I think they're probably going to be around the same team that they were, before. I don't know if they're appreciably better than the team that they gave up. And now we'll see what they do with the number seven overall pick. You could hear us talk about that later on here. But I don't know if I'm Damien Lillard, I'm looking at this team and I'm saying,

is this going to be enough in order to carry me through my prime years? He's 31 going on 32. Yeah, yeah, the injury last season, but he's still one of the best players in the NBA. And as we've seen in the past, a lot of guys in his position would probably ask out. It's really going to take Dame probably signing a very, very, very lucrative extension and embracing a role as Portland's Dirk Novitsky essentially in order to really ride this out. I like Jeremy Grant as a player. This is a trade that has, he's kind of been rumored to them since last trade deadline. I think they're better defensively, but I don't know. I don't really see them as an appreciably better team than they were in the Dame and CJ era.

The trade actually might be more interesting, though, for the Detroit Pistons. because they send out Jeremy Grant via trade exception. So they're not actually taking any money back here. And we'll see what ends up happening with the 2020 first round pick. It's kind of a short of the Milwaukee Bucks. And while the Bucks will have Janus

for the foreseeable, presumably, you never know there because they have kind of short-sighted some of his core around Janus. Obviously they didn't pay PJ Tucker last offseason. It looks like Bobby Portis will be heading. for free agency, and they gave up Dante DeVincenzo at last year's trade deadline.

So the supporting cast around Janice might not be as sound as we think, but I guess as long as Chris Middleton is there, Drew Holliday's there, they're going to be pretty good. So we'll see about that one. But I think it's more interesting because they open up gobs and gobs of cap space.

It looks like, according to Keith Smith MBA, a veteran capologist, let's just call him, the Pistons, if they've renounce all, their free agents, they can have as much as $56 million this off season that is almost a double the amount of the second place team here, Orlando at 27.9, Indiana has 25.6, San Antonio, 19.3. And you might be thinking, well, what the hell is Detroit market that really hasn't drawn in years past going to do with all that cap space. I think they could be very, very interesting

in the restrictive free agent market. DeAndre Eaton is a guy we talk about on the podcast. Castle, although maybe it doesn't end up in the final cut. But DeAndre Aiton could be a very interesting fit there giving a pick and roll partner with Kate Cunningham. There's also Jalen Brunson, a complimentary guy who could play alongside Cade, although we'll see if he has eyes for New York. And maybe a Miles Bridge is a guy in Charlotte who is expected to get paid a lot. And Charlotte, you're already hearing rumblings about maybe they won't be able to have enough money

to pay him. But that actually brings us to our next point is maybe Detroit just becomes the most interesting dumping ground for a lot of teams with a lot of money on their book. Speaking of Charlotte, they've been rumored to be shopping Gordon Hayward along with a draft pick. I think they have the 13th and the 15th overall pick in this year's draft. And so could Detroit theoretically jump over a team like Orlando and take Hayward into their space and add another lottery pick in this draft or maybe even more, maybe future draft facets could be there. So Detroit just became very, very interesting. I really like what

Detroit is done since they've changed the regime there in the front office with Troy Reaver taking over. They've taken a lot of smart bets. I thought Marvin Bagley was an interesting trade target they got last year at the deadline, basically seeing if there's something left in him and he did play reasonably well, at least enough to where you could consider bringing him back on a middle tier contract over this offseason and maybe rehab his value and get something out of a player who many really liked going into the draft where he was unfortunately drafted over Luca Dodgers. Don't think he'll ever get that good, but like, you know, another spry big man with some

stretch to him definitely can't hurt. So Detroit's going to be very interesting. Portland could still be very active. We'll see if they take a player with this number seven overall pick or they even trade that one and get even more veteran help. That would be interesting. And before I go, we should mention that Jeremy Grant is due. a pretty lucrative extension, his own self.

Bobby Mark pegs him as being able to sign a four-year, $112 million extension six months after the trade is finalized. So you would assume if the Trailblazers are giving up a first round pick in this deal, they intend to sign him for the long term. So that's the trade. Coming up, you'll hear us talk around some of these teams. We might even mention Jeremy Grant in some of these other scenarios. But for the most part, hopefully this holds up.

without further ado, here's group chat. The group chat, I am Justin Barrier, joining me as always, Rob Bihoney, Big Waze, and we've got a special guest. Although he's kind of like family here on the group chat. I kind of like to think of him as like a mailbox on Blues Clues. He's like one of the extended members of the show. So Jay Kyle, man, how are you? Man, that's very sweet.

I'm glad that you feel that way about me. I wanted to like say, I wanted to show this off. I'm wearing my Animal Kingdom. Oh, hell yeah. signature hoodie here. I meant that wear this to just mock Rob, but yeah, it's, it's excellent to be here. So you wanted to show that off on an audio podcast? Well, we could talk about it. I'll post a picture you can see. What is that? I actually don't know what that is. You don't know the show Animal Kingdom? Yeah, man. It's like a TBS drama. TNT. Look, they know drama over there.

Well, what's funny is they message me and they were like, we're so glad you've been a part of the conversation. I was like, well, you didn't read my tweets because I've just been making fun of the fact that I don't think the show actually exists because no one has ever talked about watching it. But anyway, I got a hoodie out of it. But anyway, I have to be here. Wow. Well, thank you for dropping that product placement. And you can go now, I guess. Okay.

No, Kyle is here because it is draft week. This is your week, man. You're one of the internet's foremost draft officinados. And so we are here to blend you into our existing. lineup because we know nothing about the NBA draft. And so, let's call it what it is, which is Kyle bailing us out from knowing nothing about draft prospects.

Well, you see guys, every year new players enter the league and the teams get ordered based on how they do and they pick these players. And this is how it works. So these players are not, you don't know much about them, but they could be good. So that's kind of what the NBA draft is in a nutshell just to catch you guys up.

So we'll start from that. And then we'll start from that. That kind of forced labor. sound very American, though. I can't believe these guys aren't allowed to pick where they were. It's a whole other discussion. Rewarding rich people for failing is exactly how America works, I believe. Anyway, all right, so the stick for today is we're going to go through some of the teams in the lottery and determine whether or not those teams should trade out of the pick they're in and get veteran help, or they should keep the pick, and Kyle can probably help us determine who would be the

best fit there because basically the way things are shaping up is the top three in the draft are pretty much set. It seems like Bencherro, Jet Homgren, or Jabari Smith will go one, two, three. And you hear all the time that the draft starts at four. So we will start at four because that is when it gets more interesting. A lot of these teams seem like they're in a weird spot. And starting, we could probably just go to them. Number four with the Sacramento Kings, where do they really need another young player or are they better off adding a veteran to their mix, especially a team like the Kings who always wants to make the playoffs despite what it means for the future? So, was, I ask you first and foremost, if you were the Kings, are you thinking, let me draft a guy

like Jaden Ivy, who is who is the pick in Kevin O'Connor's ringer mock draft at four, or would you be trying to trade for a veteran and trade out of this pick? I mean, if, if, If I were in charge of the Kings, I wouldn't do 75% of the things that they've done in the last two years. But I would just make the draft pick. That's what I would do. They're not anywhere close to being like, okay, this is a damn good team, a absolute bona fide playoff team, particularly in a stacked West. I would just make the pick, right?

I don't know that my pick would be Jaden Ivy, another guard who can't shoot on the Kings. that seems like a redundancy that doesn't need to be replicated. But I would make the pick. But it seems like the Kings, if you are of the mindset of, oh, we want to make the playoffs, we want to be an eighth seed,

we want to get our butts kicked by Memphis, potentially in the first round of next year's playoffs, then they should trade it for a guy that can contribute next year. And maybe that's what they'll do. But yeah, I would just make the pick. I've probably picked a Canadian kid.

High upside guy. I don't know what happened to him in Kentucky. Like, I'm sure that'll come out. Shat and sharp. Yeah, in a 30 for 30 someday. But that's what I would do. I'd get the kid with the highest upside, roll the dice, and see what happens.

Well, not to invalidate the premise from literally the first team, but can the Kings do both? Because they seem like they're in a position where if they're not sold on Jaden Ivy. And a lot of the reporting around the Kings right now is basically who are the other teams who would want Ivy and working backwards from there. And if you start with that premise, then you see some outcomes that lead them to trade down to six or to seven to move down in the draft in a way where they could still get a high upside guy, maybe even Shaden Sharp still in that range, and get somebody else who could help them more immediately, maybe serving both masters at once in that regard. because I think like once you trade for Domas Sabonis,

your bet is kind of made in terms of what kind of team you're going to be in terms of the fact that you're playing for at least trying to make the playoffs. So I think their motivations are certainly there, at least in terms, at least relative to drafting some kind of longer term project type player. Well, Kyle, what do you think about Ivy? Is he worth sticking at four and making the pick?

Or if you're the Kings, could you trade down a couple spots? still get a good player and pick up a veteran. Also, can you explain to us why everybody is so convinced that he's the fourth guy, too? Because it seems like everybody's like, yeah, it's Ivy, obviously. He has some really alluring, like, superstar, like, aesthetic kind of qualities, like, to his game. A, for people that don't know much about him, played at Purdue, 6'4, very lean, muscular,

like, trying to think of a player. Like, if you think about the, like, the smoothness and the fluidity and experience, I mean, he's an elite athlete. He gets downhill on people. He gets under you easy. He is like, we talk about shin angle. He just gets really low to the ground and accelerates. And he did that in a really clogged Purdue offense this past year had some just crazy highlight plays. The question is, every draft is different. If we didn't, if we had more kind of high quality talent at the top, would we be like for sure he's number four? He has some caveats. I mean, it was nailed it

the dissonance between the idea of him and fox and davion together makes me like cease sick like I feel like I'm like oh like but it's a conversation but it's a conversation where if we're talking about like what are the

king's going to do a that's a tough position to just put yourself in to begin with I feel like and then but Rob was right they kind of have revealed what they want to do they couldn't and I think this kind of started with the Halliburton thing where ideally you keep Halliburton because you can build around him better because he's a he's a really guy that spreads

the wealth people want to play with him but I think that Fox kind of drove his value down in the way that he wants to play and they probably saw okay we can get more for Halliburton so they did that so all right here we are in the short term he doesn't fit with them in my opinion I think that they do make sense as a trade partner. I had one that I wanted to kind of propose to you guys. Sure. I'm ready to say I do. I think they would be an interesting trade partner with the Pelicans.

I don't know that the Pelicans would do this, but I was wondering, what if the Kings traded the four, well, what if the Pelicans got the fourth pick for Sean Holmes, and then the Kings got the eighth pick, and Jackson Hayes and Garrett Temple. Would that work on paper? You get, like, you get a player that kind of works for the Pelicans. I think that the Kings get somebody in the short term that could help them. That was just one idea. I don't know. Have you all heard any other, both react to that one first?

Were you that blown away by the Jackson Hayes experience last year? Because he came on at the end of the year playing some four and people like, okay, he's obviously not a center. He's got to do the fourth thing, but he's basically been horrible at every single other point of his career. Right. I don't know. I don't think Jackson would be enough for me to move down. You have to dig into some. The eighth pick there makes more sense for them with what they have. They obviously need to just take the best player available because as my, my thing is like if you suck, don't talk about fit to me. That's always been my thing. And they are not going to be able to vault. There's a bunch of teams like this in this draft that are like, okay.

we're going to add to our core. It's well, your core sucks. It's not good. So if you want to put some tape on a box that's already, you know, not doing, not doing the job, go ahead and do that. But I think the kings need to find a way to just like gather assets, gather talent as much as they can. Yeah, and that would kind of be where I would go. I think they're committed to Fox and Subonis at this point.

You don't trade Halliburton if you don't believe in those two as pillars of your franchise as far as those guys can take you. I'm a little confused how Davian Mitchell has wormed his way into core territory. Like, is he shown enough at this point to suggest that, like, he should be starting? Why'd they take him to begin with? I didn't understand that. Like, he was like 23 years old and he's like under six feet tall. I just don't, the precedent for those players succeeding. I was just like ablplectic when they made up.

What we're not going to do on this show is denigrate the talents of a full core fits alumni. Don't want Mitchell, okay. That guy is going places, all right? A man who knows where his bread is buttered. No, but seriously, you guys are right about that, though. It's like you have, especially when it's like, all right, we're a lottery team. You already have two guards who need the rock. And this dude is like undersized.

It's not even like he can play next to them. size up, right? Like, where it's like, oh, I can throw him on three men's. Like, no, he's six foot tall. He's basically guarding your ones and moving on with his life. I didn't see the logic in that. At first, even though I like his game, you know, just as a guy who gets after it on defense and has shown so much improvement at different

stages, drastic improvements at different stages in his career, it never made sense. But it's like, yeah, let's do that again. With Jaden Ivy, let's do, you know, third time's a charm, guys. You build your roster for the last day of the season, like the last possible game that you could play. And imagine a player of that type with those questions playing in like a finals. What are the teams going to do? They're going to pick on him.

They're going to try to get him in switches. I don't think players for finals, though. I know, but I'm just saying that's how I think about it. You're trying to avoid the caveats and the conditions, and he's heavy in that area. Yeah. I actually don't think of Foxx. the bonus, like foundation is all that bad. I think you need to play a specific way.

I think you need to play more like an Alvin Gentry team and you need to get up and down and prioritize your offense. But I don't know. Like Davian Mitchell probably wouldn't like make decisions based off of that. But one guy who has been talked about as a potential trade partner as someone the Kings could target is John Collins. Like I wonder if there's something to work if you're the Hawks. Like could you send Collins for four plus stuff?

Rob, what do you think about the idea of Collins? and Subonis in the front court together. I don't mind the fit. I just wonder, is John Collins worth a, like, a top four pick? Even in a draft like this, even with all the questions we've raised, like John Collins is a guy who comes with a lot of questions himself in terms of how he fits into lineups in terms of what his best position is. I think he and Sabonis could work pretty well together offensively,

but what are you doing on D? Like, he can, he can rim protect in a way Subonis can't, which is nice, at least a little bit. But I would worry long term about that kind of foundation. If those are the guys you're kind of saying we're building around Fox and Sabonis and Collins, where does that get you in the West, you know? I'm with John Collins. I love John Collins a lot, just his theoretical versatility, right?

As being a guy who plays the four but can switch out onto wing players credibly. He could be a rim runner. He's definitely got that part where he could be a vertical spacing type of guy. he's shown some decent picking pop ability. He's shown like a physicality against smaller guys when he has to take him to the pole. Like he's shown all of it in spurts. However, the Hawks defense last year, man, while he was a part of it, is just an indictment of all of those John Collins as potential X, Y, and Z guy,

specifically as a quality defender. I think the tape on what the Hawks did. And, you know, there's a myriad of things that go into what the Hawks were, why the Hawks were so horrible on that end last year. But John Collins was there, and he was a part of just an embarrassing defensive unit. Not like average. Not like, oh, they showed glimpses of being really good.

They were embarrassing last year. So it's hard to talk to yourself into being like, all right, I have to place a bonus. at center and he sucks and you know he sucks at what? He sucks at defense I mean as a center. Yeah, he's not good at defense.

That's what I'm saying. And so the guy you put next to him has to theoretically at least be good. Not you don't even say great. Like theoretically it has to be good. Man, I don't know if you could say John Hollins is good at defense based on what he did last year. Kyle, I guess the other option they can go to

if they wanted someone in the front court was to just draft Kagan Murray? Like, what do you think about Murray and specifically Murray at 4? Oh, no way. I mean, I kind of like, that's one that I'm not with people on the Keegan Murray thing. In terms of, there's a difference between,

and when I like talk about how I feel about players, it all is very much through the prism of where they're taken and what is expected from them. When I talk about Davion, if you're talking about taking him in the top 10 and playing him in your starting lineup full time, I might have some problems with that. If you're talking about taking him later in the first round

and him being in your rotation, sure. Jose Alvarado is a smaller guy. He was a menace in the playoffs. I mean, that may come to a head at some point. It's all about where they are and where they're taken. So we're talking value as opposed to player. Kegan in the top four, too many problems. Too many developmental things for him.

He doesn't really dribble the basketball at all. I don't know if you guys know much about Kegan Murray. You want me to elevate a pitch to you real quick. Yeah, download us. The bio blast, yeah. Late bloomer, six foot eight, you know, sort of a medium definition player, if we're talking about it on like 2K, not like a ripped guy, but he's a clever player. Like Rob. Wow.

I'll take me. Yeah, sort of like Rob. I was just to say, Rob, I'll take that. Probably more on the rip side, right? Let's it rip. No, Keegan, though, really clever kind of, Charks and I compared him to like the way T.J. Warren was really clever about like accumulver. accumulating buckets without being a downhill, like, creator. He's really smart about, like, attacking quick post-mishmatches and things like that.

But if you're depending on him to, like, dribble the basketball, don't do it. He can shoot, though. He's somebody in an existing offense with flow, he would score if he's playing with a clever point guard. I'm not taking that guy four, though, because he's also older. He's 22 years old. So for the Kings, I don't think so. I think they need spacing if they can get it. And there are some shooters in the top 10 here that would work on that front.

But talking about Collins, like I always call him a 4.5 who can also, he could shoot threes basically from the beginning and be a lob threat. There's nobody else really in this draft that from day one is going to do that. So, I mean, every draft's different. For this one, I think at 4 he would maybe be worth it, honestly. Okay. But we're getting into the heart of it for the Kings, which is this is a team where it's tough to locate precisely what they need to get into,

a playoff level, right? Like, we know they probably, they need more shooting, clearly, but where do you put it? Like, how many better wing players are you going to get who are from day one better than Harrison Barnes or Justin Holliday or these guys who are like proven NBA veterans who are fine players? They need next level talent. And I don't know how they get that in this spot. If they're, like, unless you're really sold on Ivy, in which case we've already talked about

all the problems with the fit potentially with that. It's just hard to conceive of an outcome where they find. that this season in a way that's also going to get them into the playoffs. And they don't even have the cap potential to like, you know, throw something crazy at a younger guy, right? Like a restricted guy and just be like, hey, let's just throw an insane contract in front of Cam Johnson and just be like, hey, you know, what's up? You know, type of thing.

Like they can't even do that kind of stuff because the way their cap works. So it's like, I, you know, I would be into the John Collins thing because like I said, I like John Collins. But again, at the same time, I think part of the problem in Atlanta was that he wasn't getting touches. And like, is he going to get touches when the offense has to revolve around Fox and, like, it has to if we're going to make them the focal points? Like, John, you're going to be an ancillary part. So, like, is he going to just be happy about? moving to Northern California. Like, he's just going to be so happy

that he plays to the best of his abilities. You know, I don't know. But again, I like John Collins. I loved what he did in the playoffs last year, just shown what he could do defensively as a versatile guy. But, you know, the King situation just doesn't feel like one that just unlocks

somebody's potential. Sure. Well, you would think if any situation did, it would be Atlanta. But it's just there's so many other variables. You know, there's so many other variables with how a team works. While you were talking about him defensively stinking, it's amazing how different defensively a team can look when their accountability and continuity just like flips a switch.

And the Celtics are a great example of that. If the player, and that's like a, that's almost just like an interpersonal thing that you can't evaluate because a guy can look totally different. And it's in a situation with great culture. Andrew Wiggins, incredible example. He goes somewhere. The accountability is at this level. He comes in.

He lives up to it. I don't know that that's going to be the case. All that said, I don't know that that's going to be the case with Sacramento. Yeah. All right. Let's move along here. Detroit Pistons at number five. Rob, it doesn't seem like they're going to get Zach Levine.

So would you prioritize the pick in this scenario or are you trading out for a vet? So Cade is so good already. I would love to see them add some veteran help. But I think they're at that. that point where that formula would run them into a wall. I think they still need one more young guy. And maybe I would feel differently if Sadiq Bay had shown more star kind of potential or if Isaiah Stewart had been killing it or Killian Hayes had shown us a little bit more. But none of those things have really happened or panned out as we might have liked. And so I don't want to get too

far ahead of things too quickly. I want to get Kate Cunningham's like a real running mate. You know, with Sadiq Bay obviously a part of that, whichever other young guys can keep up can are more I'm more than happy to have them come along, but they need to make this pick. Or if they're not going to make it, they need to be in the market for a young player. We're not looking for more Jeremy Grants on this team. Yeah, I think it seems obvious that they need to make this pick. And I think the Memphis model is an instructive one. You have your future star already.

Pick young guys that can develop next to him and just wait for him to have his job season and moment. and you'll have your young pieces and you'll be that young, exciting team. I don't see the point in jumping the gun here. Like, I'm a big, big, big believer in Cade Cunningham. And just watching the playoffs, like Cade's ability to be improvisational and be a guy that plays off a feel

and imagination and creativity where teams can't just game playing against you a la, you know, maybe Jason Tatum. You know what I'm saying? Like he's just so creative. And John Moran too. Like these creative sort of, you know, just the way they see and feel the game is just different. And so once he gets even better at, you know, the sort of nipping at the ends, like getting

those cheap free throws and getting those beautiful hit-aheads in transition and getting those easy baskets to add to what he can already do in the half court. He's going to be something crazy. So it's like he just came off his rookie year. And he's obviously the future of the team. I don't know why you would try to sacrifice that future just to do something for the now. Yeah. Kyle, who do you think would fit if they're going to make the pick? I agree with you guys. I think in terms of the short term, the thing that Cade that's so great is that like the creates Yeah. I think more it's just like his role Malubility, his ability to go on and off the ball. I think if he

continues to make a leap, like in terms of his middle game, his foul drawing like you said was, his pull up three points shooting like as a three level score, the Pistons become a team with a lot of options because he is somebody that you can that is just malleable to play with a lot of people. And that's what you want in the playoffs. You want to be flexible. In the short term, though, I think if you want to go with the rim runner thing, which I think would make his life a lot easier, like a serious lob threat, a serious defensive anchor.

Jalen Duren is 18 years old. I don't know if he actually turned 19 yet. I don't have that in front of me. He's very young. He's like, he's super, super young. Everybody's talking about Duke. Duke's big guy, Mark Williams. Duren is like an Adonis. You guys should see this dude. He is like just this rippling like Bamadabio type explosive athlete, seven foot six wingspan. He does some insane stuff like on the defensive end. If you want, want to go that route, I think that he would be a good bit for them at five with the upside, because we saw what the value of like a fly-around switchable three-level defensive guy like Rob Williams was in the playoffs, and he wasn't even healthy. So you think about that,

if you want to go with the spacer, hard to do worse or hard to do better than A.J. Griffin. AJ Griffin was like a crazy at-volume shooter, six-foot-five, seven-foot wingspan. has had some injury history if he's going to be healthy. But I mean, those are two guys just off the top of my head that would be good for the short term

and you don't have to kind of go and make a big swing for a veteran. I think those two guys would be fun in the short term. All right. Let's go to Indiana now at 6. Rob, you're Mr. Pacer.

What are you doing here? Because the Pacer is probably more than any other team we're going to talk about. Yeah, that's what they call me. You love the heartland. Yeah. it's you, Reggie Miller. I think I'm out of flanked in terms of America's heartland

now the way of Kyle on the pod. I think he might be closer to geographically to Mr. Pacer than I am. Okay. How dare you? Do you know how serious of an insult that is to call a Kentucky person a Hoosier? My God.

Yeah, Rob, didn't you know that? Wow. Yeah. All right. So we're going to Rob today's pod. Yeah, right. So the Pacers. I know you care.

In the midst of a rebuild, but it doesn't seem like we know which way they're going to go. They still have veterans. like Miles Turner, Malcolm Brogden, both of whom are in literally every trade rumor you could look up at this point. But they also have this young core building behind them, Tyrese Halliburton, Chris DeWarte, etc, et cetera, et cetera. So like, what are you doing? Are you staying at six? You continue on with the rebuild. Are you moving back? You trying to move up. What do you think is the player?

Yeah. Do we not know which direction they're going? I feel like they've been, I mean, you trade Domana's a bonus for Tyrese Halliburton. Your head coach has to go on record insisting that he's not going to quit because the team is now rebuilding. I think. we can confidently say they're rebuilding. Well, they also have a lot of older young guys too because Halliburton is what, like 21 at this point? Like Duarte is what, 35 at this point?

That's how much is old. Buddy healed is literally 29. I looked this up before because I could never get his age, right? So it's not like they have they have to have a long runway. It seems like they could kind of turn this over pretty quickly. And as you know, like in a market like Indiana, you actually don't want to be

rebuilding for multiple years. I don't know if they can considering the owner's, there. I think that part is true. Just in terms of how that team has operated historically, it's not really the way they run things. But this is a crucial pick. Like, they need to nail a selection here, whether it's at six, whether it's moving up. I would be reluctant to move down. Because like similar to some of these other teams we've talked about, like Detroit, I feel like they still need more difference making young talent before they want to start turning the page and bringing in veterans or bringing older guys of any kind. And it's interesting,

to hear about who might be available there. There's already some rumors about Chris Duarte. There's obviously a lot of rumors about Malcolm Brogden, who it sounds like from Woj's reporting is all but gone, essentially. They're just like waiting to rehome him with somebody. I would imagine Miles Turner, his role there, is going to be tenuous if he's not traded in short order. It's going to be interesting.

But I think they are on a relatively longer runway by Pacer's standards, right? Like that seems like where we're headed. Yeah, they feel like Heartland, Sacramento Kings, which is kind of funny because they made the big trade with each other. It's like, and I've said this before, I don't know whether they're coming or going. Because why do you keep Miles Turner around? Why do you keep Malcolm Brogden around, especially at the money Brogden is making on a team that's not going to do anything as far as contending for playoffs and stuff like that? So until they get rid of their good players, They're good, but clearly not great.

And again, this is a Miles Turner pod. But he's not a great player, right? Like, until they figure out what they want to do with their good guys, I don't understand what Phoenix is doing. I mean, excuse me, what the Pacers are doing here. It feels like they're, you know, sort of running in place. I don't understand what Phoenix is doing, though. It's just like an evergreen thought we can plug into these spots.

Is that investigation still pending? Yes. By the way, the Sarve it one? About a year now, yeah. Oh, okay. Damn. Must be really thorough. Yeah.

Interviewing people four times. It's like a long for an article. Kyle, what are you thinking about the pastures these days? Well, when you don't know if you're coming or going, you don't know what's nailed down, you're probably into the position where, okay, we're not thinking about fit here at all. So you're just going to kind of maybe, if you're going to keep it and you're going to go for the best available, you're talking about the guys with the highest upside. You would think that offensively that would be Shaden Sharp,

but I don't know if you guys saw the Shaden Sharp interview with the Pacers. It was just like unbelievably bad. Wait, so I heard a Zoom interview came out or something like that. What happened on this interview? Well, the book on Sharp. A lot of people are, you know. Yeah, you're on the ground, Kyle. Give us some insight on what happened with him in Kentucky and what the book is.

I'll rattle this off quickly, and if you want more details, I made like a 13 minute video about and watched every Shade and Sharp video. I watched it all. I suffered for you. You everyone out there. Anyway, I died for your sins. No, I, I, sharp is six foot five and a half super explosive. Like he's built like he's built like a prototypical scoring wing. He gets crazy elevation on his jump shot. He's a good shooter. Shoots a good percentage even on tough shot. The problem is he's kind of a sleepy personality. He has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. And in ways that aren't entirely his fault, there's a lot of documentation on this. One of my buddies for the Athletic wrote about this extensively, the people who have kind of run his draft candidacy pissed off a lot of people.

They basically pushed him to not play at Kentucky. So he reclassified. And he's just a guy who very confident in himself. And that's what you want from your stars. But I think if you're going to draft him, you're kind of just wondering, what are you going to get? Are you going to get a guy that's going to fit into your culture, or is it going to be a guy who's going to be strongly wanting to do his thing?

But he's as like a shot creator, like a face-up shot creator, he's the most talented shot creator in this draft. And he's a guy who like, you know, 45-inch vertical, he's got like a 6-11 wingspan. I mean, he has the makings of a star. It's just, will he be one? A lot of people are skeptical. You know who comes to mind Kevin Porter, right?

Where it's like, wow, what a personality. You know, like, is it on that level or is it just a lot of miscommunication or whatever type of things? That's kind of what I've tried to be the detective and figure out because he's so quiet. He's a Canadian guy. He changed schools like three times in like a very short amount of time. During the pandemic and you think about if you get uprooted and brought down, When I was trying to talk myself into it, I was like, okay, imagine you're like a very laid-back, shy, introverted person. You go from Canada at some high school where you don't know anybody.

It doesn't go super well. You change schools again. And then there's the pandemic. And it's just like, you could imagine where maybe there would be some room for error there where we would misinterpret what happened and he gets in a good situation. We've seen guys do this before and slip. Mitchell Robinson, weird tape. Didn't play in the traditional places. Came in, good player.

Anthony Simons didn't play college basketball. It was a weird situation. Sharp is similar in that way. I think that his value is going to make more sense in like that 9, 10, 11, maybe even 12. I know Tyler Parker's hoping desperately he falls to 12. I don't know if that's going to happen. But that's the thing. Yeah, he makes the most sense, but I don't think Indian is going to take him.

They're probably going to take Keegan Murray or something like that. Something really safe. Wait, what happened with the Pacers Zoom interview? Yeah, what happened with the Zoom? Yeah. I saw, I saw an interview where a Pacer's reporter was asking him, like, why, if you love, because he just was saying, I love to, he's basically really robotically just saying, I love to play. I love to play.

This is like, dude, you didn't play intentionally for like two years, like, or a long time. Because even the tape, I was evaluating, I was like, okay, this is kind of who he is. And I was looking at the dates on there. I was like, this stuff was over a year ago. I'm judging who he was over a year ago. And he's, you know, 19 years old. He's the toughest call. one of the toughest players I've ever had to like make a judgment call on honestly really really tough yeah so anything else on the pacer's here i mean i agree with what rob was saying i think what everyone's kind of saying like they seem like they need more young blood in here and if you have enough competency as this franchise has shown over the past 10 20 30 years uh it does seem like it's going to be tough to get back up to even six over the

next couple of years. So I would probably just take the talent. If anything, I wonder if they should try to be trading up. Is there any way you can get Miles Turner plus the six to go up to four? And maybe just take a Jaden Ivy, take the most talented guy on your board and then just stick him with Halliburton, who, as we said, like, Halliburton can basically play with everyone, which is like the advantage that the Pacers now have that the Kings probably should have had. Yeah, I think that's the question, right? It's like, how do they get someone who has a little bit more creative pop? Where Halliburton playing a role, being a flow guy can be exactly what you need from him.

And maybe Ivy is that answer. Like maybe that really is the solution here. And that's the question. Like, is it really worth it to them to give up Duarte and or Brogden? I don't really know what would entice the Kings at this point in terms of moving down from four to six. But like, is Ivy that good of a conceptual fit alongside Halliburton where something like that could make sense?

Kyle, what do you think about that? Yeah. That fits. Yeah, well, you said it. I mean, Halliburton's a lot like Cade. They have like that role malleability. That's why all the nerds got really excited when those two guys played on the

U19 team together a few years ago. Anyway, but moving up makes sense. I could see those two playing together. But if they stay, Rob, you nailed it. Like the creative pop is what you're looking for here.

And this just isn't one of those drafts. Like some people are betting on the creative pop of like Mathrin. I'm way softer on that. I don't see that. You need to. And your two guys that you're leaning on in Duarte and Halliburton are both, skinny dudes. And defensively, I think they need somebody that can really switch up or down in the lineup that might be Sohan that Jeremy's Sohan from Baylor, six-foot-nine, you know, really, really

versatile defender, kind of offensively challenged. But he fits them. If you can't find the creative pop, he makes sense on that front for them. Gotcha. All right, let's, let's pivot now to the Portland Trail Blazers. Wise, where are you in the Blazers right now? Because they have the seventh pick and Damien Lillard and Anthony Simons and then I'm not sure what else. Yeah, I think the Blazers, you've heard them, they're in on the DeAndre Aiton Watch as well, who I think would just work wonders next to Dame Lillard. I'm a big, big, big, Anthony Simons fan. He came in here.

He came to Staples like two years ago and was just cooking. looking Paul George and Kauai Leonard just stunk it up for the rest of the year. Then finally, last year, he kind of put it together and showed like, wow, this guy's like a really dynamic guy with the ball in his hands. So he's like CJ McCollum. Yes, that's what I was just about to say. As much as I love him, he's like pretty small guy. It's still a small defensive back court.

And save for getting a really good, either some really good wing defenders next to him and Dane or are. are really just really great basket protecting big. I don't know. You know what I mean? In Portland, another team that could go in either direction. Like they have this pick. They have a couple of guys that they could swing

and try to get some veteran helping there. And again, maybe they could be in and on a signing trade for a restricted free agent like DeAndre 8 and if Phoenix so chooses so. But I think they should make the pick. that's just my opinion. Unless you get somebody who is obviously a difference-making playoff type of performer,

you should just make the pick and just get the best guy possible because it's not like they're just dripping with talent up and down the roster. I would just make the pick unless, again, like a guy who has shown in the postseason that he can be an impact player so that you can pair him next to Dame Lillard, I don't see the point in not picking here. I feel like making the pick is probably the right team building decision for where Dame is and where the Blazers are. Making the pick is the right decision.

But my question is which of the options on the table benefits Portland's pretty tenuous ownership situation. And I think that's what they're going to do. And it's, you know, Jody Allen is in charge of the Blazers right now. She is legally obligated to sell the team at some point in the near future because of Paul Allen's trust. And so the question becomes, to me, which is better for the bottom line of that sale price? Is it a young rebuilding team with this pick and other young players?

Is it a team that's more expensive with Damien Lillard and veterans on longer term and bigger contracts? Is it somewhere in the middle? I think it's probably the team with Dame on it and maybe some veteran guys. And some of that is because if you look at the recent sales of NBA franchises, there's just no precedent for a pure rebuilding team being sold right now. Everyone is a little further along than where Portland would be if they really pulled the plug on this. And that leads me to believe that they're going to be, if not moving, if not moving this pick for an expensive veteran, at least moving it for some kind of composite help, some group of role players, something that could make sense for them to be more competitive, if only so that they can eventually sell this thing. Yeah, I also wonder what is Dame want?

I think like in addition to ownership, like, does Dame see himself as the Dirk Novitsky of this franchise? And if so, is he going to be more willing to accept a younger guy who will need two to three years? Or if you have a guy like Sharp who's like super young, like maybe even longer in order to be at the caliber where they can make the playoffs alongside each other? Or is he saying, get me help now? I want to take advantage of my years. Or is he even saying like I don't see either of those being. viable option, get me out of here. Like, personally, if I was him, I think that last option is what I would ultimately get

to because I don't see how at 31 coming off a major injury, you can get anything to where I'm, like, back competing for the Western Conference Finals again. But, like, I do think this is like whatever he, whatever influence he implies here is probably going to dictate the outcome of this and like probably the future of his career. Well, you would say that because historically you hate the city of Portland, as we all know. I'm a white guy with a beer, man. I love Portland. Same.

But also, let's correct it on Dame, like 31 years old, but basically 32 at this point. What is the timeline on waiting for rookie guy coming in to finally click in year three as a 6-2 guard going to be 32 years old this season? And, you know, maybe Dame is, look, because it feels like Dame is doing the good soldier, like you said, Dirk Novitsky thing. He's involved with the team. He's showing up to workouts. He's doing all kinds of things to show I'm Mr. Team guy.

I'm Mr. Franchise guy. And maybe he's just like, look, you know, you guys give me that fat deal. I'll stick around and do whatever you want. You know, like, you guys give me that big old contract. I'll play ball in a numerous amount of ways. And so I think he's looking at it like if you can make a swing for a guy who's actually going to matter here. then we should absolutely be doing that. I'm Dane Lillard.

I want to compete at the highest level. If you don't, I like Simons. You know, we can bring in another young guy who I like. And I don't think they're going to completely suck so long as Dane Lillard is not injured. So, you know, I think the opportunity to do both things are there for them. Kyle, do any of the picks that we've talked about

or maybe someone we haven't talked about or any of the guys we've talked about is rumor trade targets, Jeremy Grant, John Collins, any of those guys. like do any of those get you excited as a future running mate for damien aller no no i mean the detroit it's really fun to think about detroit having five and seven that's very fun for me is just a hypo loving lover of hypothetical young basketball teams uh which is kind of my whole brand i think honestly uh but the portland thing i've written thousands of words about less uh no the portland thing is like, I was asking KOC this the other day. I was like, let's say they made the best

possible move that they could make. Like we're just saying they make a thousand times they make a move. We pick the one that the doctor strange, the one that is the perfect bullseye one. Where do they go? It's nowhere significant. I just don't, they're in this, they're in a position where the roster doesn't make enough sense. And, and Rob talking about like selling the team, it's like, okay, we're not going to get to a point. You're hopefully selling the team on the basis of like as good a vibe as possible, I guess. So in the short term, is that Jeremy Grant, no. I mean, let's say they draft the best available young guy and it's Sharp,

like, like, Dame saying he loves Sharp's game. I, like, laughed out loud when I saw that because it was just like, okay, the three of them together is like, like talk about dissonance. That's the most, it just doesn't, I, Portland should probably just draft the best young player, like, go to the team building route, in my opinion. but those things are so conflicting. Like you're all were saying,

it doesn't seem like they're going to do that. Me personally, I would just try to build the best team possible and just draft the best player available. Just to zoom out completely, what do we think the odds are that Portland makes the playoffs next year? Because I've been looking at this for the Kings, for all these teams that obviously the Lakers are going to try to improve. Do we think that they're a play-in kind of team?

Do we think that they even have that? I wouldn't be shocked if they were just out of the play-in. entirely next season, given what they have, unless they hit the Dr. Strange level outcome, and even that might just get them to seventh place, you know? Yeah, I think every team that tries is technically in the play-in, which is an unfortunate ripple effect of how the play-in works, but you're right. Like, I think barring injury, you wouldn't expect them to be in the mix there, especially with, like, teams like the Spurs or the Pelicans and the Lakers and maybe the Kings.

Like, they're all going to be in the mix there. So, all right. We already talked about the Pelicans, uh, briefly. And we're going to skip the spurs and the wizards just for time here. Uh, in order to get to number 11, the New York Knickerbockers. Uh, was, do you want to, uh, report from the streets of, of the Bronx here? Oh, the Knicks. The Knicks.

Um, you know, they're, there again in some type of purgatory. I think people applauded the. of like, all right, can you guys, can we just get to respectability and have teams and have potential new players that want to come in, look at the situation to say Worldwide West and crew and Steve Stout and crew are, you know, they're competent and they're the type of management that you can trust the Stair of ship. And I think they've mostly done that. but, you know, there's always a drawback to any plan that you go with, right?

The drawback of quote unquote respectability, they're picking 11th in this draft for a team that had no chance of doing anything of any significance last year, right? And so you wonder how much they can even improve the roster for real from the 11th pick in the draft. You go look at the history of 11 picks. It's not some like murderous role of great. value. It's just not. And, you know, you hear about the things that the Knicks have been rumored to be trying to do, which is like, we're in on Kyrie if he's available. Obviously, we really want Donovan Mitchell. I just don't know how that, those moves in and of themselves

make the Knicks this great situation. And I really think outside of R.J. Barrett, there's nothing on this roster that you think to yourself, like, wow, we can probably get something really great if we wanted to move off of it and bring in some great players instead of whatever this guy's potential is in the future. So I think they're in purgatory. They got to pray for something like an AD type of guy basically forcing his way over there. And then them getting a bona fide superstar with their space. And that's the only thing that they can hope for right now, you know, basically being like,

all right, we'll package the OBs, the quicklies, a bunch of future first. for a guy who's dying to get here. And we do that. And then, you know, we move off of money to bring in a guy with just space. And I don't see, I don't know about you guys. I don't see these avenues immediately presenting themselves. And so, yeah, the Knicks are, they're in purgatory.

They're in a holding pattern right now. And the 11th pick is the perfect holding pattern pick. It's like, it's like really late lottery. Obviously not in the 20s. a playoff team, but really late lottery with the team that didn't really have the makings or the bones of a bono five playoff team last year. Well, about that space just quickly. No pun intended.

I just, I'd love how everyone, I think including us, including me, said how brilliant the Knicks were for signing these like short-term middle-tier contracts and just adding veterans because they could then trade those contracts for guys if they want to. to swing a Damian Miller trade or wanted to aggregate the money in order to get the next disgruntled star. And now here we are basically saying like, oh, can the Knicks get off of Evan Fornier in order to open up enough cap space in order to sign another bad contract or overpay Jalen Brunson? I'm just like, where there's a will, there's no way, right? Where does it? Well, there's a way. I'm sure Sam Presti would love to have 30 picks.

And so they could probably figure out how to trade some of their guys into maybe Oklahoma City's cap space and would have to come off of future assets to do so. But if they were motivated enough, they could do it. It's just, you know, who's the guy? Who's the guy that they're doing this for? The thinking is also contingent upon them being good enough that a guy like Lillard would want to join them in the first place. And so they're like they've lost all of their batch. They've hedged a lot and they've lost all of them.

It's really kind of incredible, isn't it? Like, those plans being predicated on being good enough, that hasn't worked out. They haven't developed their young guys. I think maybe Barrett accepted. Barrett has done, I think I'm really, I'm really bullish on where he is as a player. But so many of these other young guys. Yes, please. Like on Barrett, apparently Barrett, if he signs an extension this offseason, would be the first

Nick's first rounder to sign an extension since Charlie Ward in 1994. Are you kidding me? No. Is that true? I saw it on Reddit, so it has to be true. It must be true. And we'll see on any of these other young guys if they're going to be in the next future or not because

that's kind of the question with you use this pick or not is even if you have, even if you have the best scouting department in the world, even if you're completely sold on one specific guy and you're going to get him in your building, will Tom Tibido play him or will he put him in what is known as the Emmanuel Quickly zone? in which you're going to like, is he going to play Alec Burks over my guy, you know, whoever it is that is my guy.

And it sucks that the Knicks are in that place when they're also not a very good team because you really would hope one or the other would be true. Either the young players would be fully invested in by now or your team would be good. Nope. Kyle, where are you on the Knicks these days? And do you think there's anybody in the draft that like makes obvious sense for them? it's just like it's just a series of sequences where we just repeat ourselves you know in the in the micro uh we've talked about the all these teams like the the purgatory of the NBA is so difficult to to

get out of and the strategies to get out of the purgatory look differently obviously for the pacer's the nicks in sacramento it's just like uh it can be it's such a desolate set of problems to look at and try to solve um and then you compound it with with the fact that that the Knicks are kind of like the Pacers coaching situation where it's like Tibbs just doesn't have much tolerance for throwing guys out there with a lot of runway to get the what I described on our show as like the X-Men Danger Room reps. Like you kind of like live with the like the no consequence. Like we'll just live with that so you get better type thing, which is kind of the the quickly

zone. I just imagine like a doodoo doodoo the thing like that. Yeah. They need it. And this is the other way. we're repeating ourselves. The Knicks need playmaking and creation. They tried to play both last year when they drafted Quentin Grimes,

who was like a two-way guy who could run some pick and roll. Okay, that's sort of a band-aid to solve the problem. They need to lean on somebody who's creative that maybe needs to come along defensively. The problem is this draft doesn't really have guys even like tie-tie, the guy from Kentucky, but are you drafting a quickly clone who is going to be in the same kind of situation. He has some upside there. Johnny Davis is a guy that people believe as like a two-way guy who could become a creator. Dyson Daniels. I don't think that he'll be there. The Australian guy six foot eight. I don't know, man. I really just, uh, Jaden Hardy is a swing that they could take,

but that'd be too high for him. I don't know if you guys know much about Jaden Hardy. He was a guy who played G League Ignite. Big time erratic scorer. Um, had a rough year. His, his value kind of went now. To me. It sounds like a guy the Knicks are going to trade for in a couple of years. Yeah, I mean, Brunson is the guy

is a guy that kind of makes sense for them, but it just feels like it feels like a swing at something that won't ultimately even solve their problems really for me. So I think same thing.

Same thing again here. Since the creator's not really there, might as well just draft somebody with offensive upside. Malachi Brainer might be a guy that could work for them, a dribble pull-up shooter. Yeah,

that's that's kind of where I am with that. Yeah. It's just interesting that a lot of teams over the past couple of years have shown that like you don't need to fully bottom out in order to successfully execute a rebuild. Like the only team that's really doing so and going the extreme route these days is Oklahoma City. Like there's been plenty of like the Clippers, prime example of a team that just like took what they could for the Chris Paul trade and turn that into something successful.

But as we're seeing with the Kings, the Pacers and the Knicks, like maybe it's actually a little bit more difficult if you're not going to like put the hard work into like mining guys from the end of the draft or the middle of the draft and like striking gold that way. Although I will say like it should be easier for the Knicks because they have every advantage possible. They're born on third base, et cetera. And so that's why it's probably more disappointing for them. That's the difference though. You just named it. You named teams that have desirable cultures and for something like that the Pacers, the Kings and the Knicks have that common where it's just like, well, we got to get guys that guys aren't going to come there.

It's just not going to happen. And what's weird is like, you were talking about thread and the needle the way OKC has. It's crazy how many reports are coming out about these guys like, we like OKC. We want to go to OKC. And it's like the culture and things like that. It seems like it's a huge difference if you're trying to get out of the out of the middle. Guys like playing there because they develop. And that's that's kind of the mindset that OKC takes when they have young players. Well, OKC, the way they handle their young players is like treating them like toddlers. It's like, no, we'll do everything perfect for you. We'll shield you from our homer-ass media.

We will just make everything as cushy and perfect and hold your hand and kiss your ass as possible. But that's appealing to players, you know? Like, that's smart to press that kind of advantage when, you know, you're in the freaking prairie. Like, it's smart to make your organization, like, no, we make your life as a player as cushy as possible with the outside stuff. And yeah, of course, player development, which is important to get people paid on their second deal. But, like, yeah, the stuff that they do when it comes to like, no, we protect our players. We treat our players like, you know, like their princes. It's a nice sell to young guys.

All right. Before we go here, I want to talk briefly. Wait, wait, wait. Can we at least circle back to do like a one-sentence hit on these teams that you just unceremoniously glossed over? There's only so much time here. All right, go ahead. Tweet it, Justin. Well, can we at least answer the question?

Like the Pelicans, should they use their pick at number eight or should they trade it? They should take the pick because I didn't like them trading down last year, although it seemed to be fine, ultimately. Okay. And so for the Spurs, I think them trading the pick also makes sense. They're probably in like the market for one of those like middle-aged 24 to 28-year-old NBA players, someone along to Jonté Murray's timeline a little more. So you can get some kind of core. Again, I don't know where it goes. Spurs. Just draft a guy, trade these other dudes, finally rebuild your team. This whole like, you know, doggy paddling, you know, basically keeping yourself afloat in the middle of the

freaking ocean with no lifeguard in sight to save you. Like eventually you're just going to have to admit that it's not going to happen for you this way. This like, oh, we want to just be competent. Do whatever it takes to just be, even if it's only slightly competent. Like, how are you just going to keep doing this? They're going to keep having Greg Popovich as their head coach until he decides not to be. And then maybe they'll do something different. All right. What's the last one, the Wizards?

Kyle, you want to take the Wizards? The Wizards are super in flux, obviously. They could have major upheaval. They could have young guys coming in based on the trade talks that we've heard. Say they did a deal with the Sixers. Say they did a deal with the heat. They just need to take the best player available. It's the same thing.

I think that they need to take a guy who could fit into a logical kind of team rebuild situation, and whether or not that's, I don't know, I would lean towards a big. I would lean towards like a rim protecting big there if it's there at 10. Mark Williams is a guy who's there. Yeah, I mean, or Sohan, if he's still available there too, just get better defensively too.

Because the guys that are coming in that I've heard about are kind of offensive upside guys. I just draft defense if I were the Wizards. Thank you all for it. It does. Thank you for indulging me. I'm here for the people, you know? Yeah, Isaiah, when we put the timestamps in, just put in, like, Rob satisfies the heartland as this last five minutes.

Washington, D.C. is not the heartland. Sounds like a high channels, a cable show that I'm not going to watch. It's close to the Mason Dyson makes a lot of sense for the Pelicans. Like, I really, if they can get a hold of him, because he seems like a guy who could bolster their offense so that they're not so ISO to, dependent. I'm pitching him to you very. Dyson Daniels is a guy that I really think could work.

Yeah. Assist usage. Really good. I like it. All right. Before we go here, I did want to touch on the Kyrie Irving situation. Just because I don't know if all of us have given our opinions and Lord knows the world needs more Kyrie Irving opinions. But I do actually want to hear what Was has to say about this. I actually look forward to hearing Waz on certain topics and this is definitely one of them. And so was, I'm sure everyone knows the basic details at this point. So why don't you just take it away and give us your take here? Again, this is, this is more like in a logical world, the Nets would not, no team would offer Kyrie Irvin more than two years guaranteed

on a deal for a dude who refused to get vaccinated because he believes in voodoo medicine. and the year before that was taking PTOs, just left and right on his birthday, on January 6th or like, like, or on, in other times it was like, yo, you try to trade me, I'll retire. Like, when he wanted to leave Cleveland,

yo, you try to move me to a team that I don't like, I'll get a knee surgery, right? Like, this is the dude we're dealing with. So in a normal world, most teams would be like, yo, I get you a two plus one. If you want it, take it and I'll bring you in. Or if we have you on a contract that's longer than that, it's going to be tied to minutes and games played. Because you have proven to be unreliable in times when you're not injured,

when you're not physically messed up and can't play, right? Like you've proven to be a guy who doesn't show up. So we got to tie all these incentives to it. However, because this is the NBA, and because of the way they structure, they've ownership basically, has made it so that these deals are structured, it doesn't make sense to do anything

but bring Kyrie back on a five-year or five-year deal and just basically worry about getting rid of him or doing something else whenever that time comes. Because, like, not signing him and letting him go for nothing is suicide because it's not like they could just, oh, we have $45 million to play with and just bring in people for $45 million.

That's not how their cap situation is structured, so they can't do that. And so the only thing that makes sense, like I see them playing chicken in public where Kyrie's like, I'm brother Mazone and the Nets and Sean Marks are like, we want guys that are going to play. Like, everybody's talking tough.

But they're each other. his best options. And Kyrie does and another thing is Kyrie does have other options. Like I think the Knicks

might actually be like, yo, we'll find a way to make the room to bring you in and be completely happy about it. Right?

So he does have other avenues to get a deal that is way more than just two years guaranteed. So he's going back there. Like they're doing

this whole song and dance. KD is his man is basically his rabbi over there. and you can't piss off KD if you're the Nets. What, like, what are we doing with this public posturing? And I will say this after this long soliloquy. We've had basically 10 years of this stupid rumor speculation, newsbreaker, bullshit.

We know when Wode posts something is, he's been carrying Sean Mark's water for like two fucking years now. That's all he does. So you know when Wode's post something related to the Nets is coming from ownership. You know when Shams does it is coming from the players camp, Kyrie and them. We know the angles, but I really think we've turned a corner where people just roll their eyes and just like, we know this bullshit. This would have generated like days of content. What would he look like with the Lakers and oh my God, with him and Kawhi

and this? And now we know it's just cat. It's BS. And he's going back to Brooklyn, bro. He's going back and he's going back and he's going to get his money because there's no other better option for anybody and all of that. I know that was long-winded, but like, this shit is ridiculous now, man. Like, it just is. I just love that the Kyrie Irving bit started with the phrase, in a logical world.

Dot, dot, dot. That's where we jumped off from. But, Was, would you take Kyrie on a 2 plus one to join our podcast? Oh, of course. Of course. Just just so he could explain to us why he went to games

with walking sticks. for like two weeks, that one season. What happened to that? Is he still doing it? Yeah, what happened to the walking stick? Yeah, I've got so many questions for that, homie. But, and, you know, and again, full core fit interview.

I will say this. I will say this. That would be incredible, by the way. Like, a lot of people who have worked with Kyrie seem to really love him. You know, like multiple people that I've talked to, like directly, who had to work with him, on a day-to-day basis on the team side.

We're like, nah, I love him. Like, he doesn't fuck with everybody. But when he does, he's incredible. You know, so, you know, there's that part of it. Well, I think the weird thing that's happening now is how this is becoming warped. So the nets are the sympathetic figure in all of this. Which is ridiculous.

Yeah, like, on the one hand, I don't think anyone saw this coming for Kyrie, like to the extent where he's just like a part-time player making gobs of money and just like showing up when he wants to. On the other hand, the Nets consciously sacrificed all that work they put into and all those interviews and all those stories and all this other bullshit into like building this culture.

Nets culture. And gave it away in a second because they had Kyrie and Katie on the table. And I don't know if any other 29 franchise is going to do anything differently. So I'm not saying like the Nets are morally bankrupt or anything like that. But like you, I just don't feel sad for them because they made the decision to throw all of that away

and put everything into the Kady and Kyrie basket. And so, like, if he's, like, going off the reserves and leaving you with all these bad options, like, I'm sorry, but that's, like, kind of the bargain that you made. There would be a snake-bitten kind of charm to him saying he's going to stay with the Celtics and leaving, him making this big show after the season about how he's never going to leave his man seven

hanging in Brooklyn. then he just gets the hell out of there basically at first opportunity. I'm not going to lie. I would enjoy just watching it from afar a little bit. You talk about punning the culture for stars. It kind of reminded me of that thing in Wet Hot American Summer where he has like great chemistry with that girl. And he's like, yeah, we're in love, right?

And she's like, no, Paul Rudd's character's really hot. She just like punts all of that just because I don't know. It's just got how the NBA could be sometimes. It just makes you wonder like, Kyrie's what was said was really interesting about him on a day to day like you're doing one thing but then your actions in a broader sense or like telling me another thing and it's like the commonality between the teams that have been lasting in the playoffs lately you know well last year the nets almost did it with this with this formation I don't know at some point you kind of I think

about the like what what do we owe to each other kind of a kind of a mentality and within a franchise guys and people gave, you know, Steph a lot of credit for being selfish, selfless. I don't know. Is Kyrie's thing going to hit a point where it's like, our guy's really going to go all out for him? Is he really going to be like a positive culture presence on a good team ever again? That's kind of, that's kind of where I'm, my head is when I'm looking at this. And this coming year going to be fascinating to see. I don't know. Hard to predict Kyrie, though. I mean, you know. Having said all that, I do think if Kyrie comes. back and plays, let's say

75% of the games in every playoff games and they just like have enough that in order to put out a competent lineup, I still might pick them in the east. He's so good. This is all very rich coming from the guy who picked the net to every chance.

I just, like I love talking about the culture and all this other stuff. But like, man, like talent wins out every single time. And like this is a bottom line business. And I still think the net's really fucking good. They are. And we wouldn't put up with any of this if he wasn't one of the most talented players, like skilled basketball players ever. He's, he's unbelievable.

Yeah. It's going to be Clippers Nets in the finals. And we'll all look back on this, like, touting culture above all is like just complete bullshit. Fuck culture, man. Yeah. All right. Thank you, Kyle. Thank you, Blue's Clues, Mailbox for, for jumping in yet again here. It's such an honor to be here. Yes. We are the ones who are honored. Thank you to Kyle. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. I believe we'll be back next week on Wednesday and then we'll be flipping to free agency where a lot of different pairings across the ringer universe will be coming together to join forces to talk about a lot of transactions. So stay tuned for that. But we'll be back same time, same please. Next week. We'll see you.