The Ringer NBA Show - NBA New Year’s Resolutions. Plus: Nikola Jokic Injury Update. | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 30, 2025

Logan Murdock and Howard Beck are back on another edition of Real Ones with some NBA resolutions as we head into the new year. But first, Nikola Jokic went down on Monday night with what is believed to be a hyperextension to the knee. He will be reevaluated in four weeks. How will this affect the MVP race and the Nuggets’ standings if he misses the 65-game requirement? (0:00:00) Intro (4:47) FanDuel ad break (0:21) Jokic’s injury (14:53) FanDuel ad break (16:14) Resolutions (59:31) Mailbag Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] Hosts: Logan Murdock and Howard BeckProducers: Victoria Valencia and Clifford AugustinAdditional Production Support: Ben Cruz and Conor Nevins The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out ⁠rg-help.com⁠ to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Howard. Mother Effing back there. We are talking Yokic and we are getting to New Year's resolutions and then we're getting the mailbag. First things first.

Some news that, man, I was really sad last night when I saw this. When I saw the clip of Yokch going down, he injured and he injured his left knee. It's officially a hyper extension after he injured it with three seconds left. Before intermission in Miami last night, Nugas coach David Adelman said after the game, immediately he knew something was wrong. Then he goes, hey, this is part of the NBA. Anybody who gets hurt in this game,

it's kind of gut-wrenching, especially somebody as special as he is. We'll find out more tomorrow. We'll move on as a team, obviously right now. I'm more concerned about him as a person and the disappointment of going through something like that. Yolkins was alone under the basket and appeared to step forward to help Denver Spencer Jones to defend the drive. as time was set to expire in the second quarter while backtracking,

Jokin's left foot, and it seemed that the center's knee buckled a little bit. It looked, what were your reaction when you first saw the injury, Howard, and what do the Nuggets do here? They are 22 at 10, and they have dealt with a rash of injuries, but Yokic is a top three player in the league. He is the glue that brings this whole organization together. Also, he is the monument of stability for this team through all of their injuries. He's out a month, but that month could feel longer than it actually is.

Where do the Nuggets do from here? And how do they just keep the ship afloat? Yeah, this is a massive, massive bummer. You know, with the thunder stumbling recently, you know, by which I mean getting beaten by the spurs repeatedly, there had actually been like a shift in, I think the discourse and a shift in like the betting markets or whatever stuff I don't pay attention to. But like Yokic was back in the lead for MVP, right? And here's a multiple time MVP and the consensus best player in the world. And the Nuggets still 22 and 10 as we speak, despite having Aaron Gordon out for weeks, Christian Brown out for weeks. Like they just been really great. And Yokic has been awesome. That alert came up on my phone. I was with my daughter at Nets Warriors last night here in Brooklyn.

enjoying another fun stuff performance and a really gutty Nets team. And it was a really good game. And then suddenly this popped up. And it was like, oh, shit. So we're watching my iPhone, like the replays. And my first thought was, okay, his reaction looked really bad. But amateur doctor hour here, I looked at it. And I went, that doesn't actually look like a knee blowout.

This looked like maybe hyper extension bone bruise kind of thing. And so look at me. me go. Send my medical degree, folks, anytime. I'll send, I'll send my address out. Hyper extension. Here's the thing. The Nuggets announced this as a left knee hyper extension re-evaluated in four weeks. So the nuggets are actually not being very transparent here. They're withholding a couple of things. One, as I've learned over the years in talking to Jeff Stotz, who does the in street clothes blog, in street clothes on all the social media platforms. Jeff Stott's has a great job with injury analysis in the NBA and other places. Hyper extension is not a diagnosis. It's a thing that

happens. It's like if you turned your ankle, the actual diagnosis is not turned ankle. It's a sprain or a break or whatever. Hyper extension, not a diagnosis. You can find this online, but Jeff Stotz wrote this a year ago. We're talking about a different player. The term hyper extension is more of a descriptor of what happened to the knee than an actual diagnosis. And, it can result in a wide variety of injuries, including bone bruises, ligament, sprains, or capsule injuries, and each injury has its own recovery time. Point being, the nuggets are not telling us what the actual injury is here. We don't know. As of this recording, they're just saying hyper extension. That's a thing that happened, not the diagnosis. So four weeks is the other piece they're not being

completely transparent about because reevaluated in four weeks doesn't mean back in four weeks. And the only way to know what's a reasonable time for him to return would be if they actually us what the injury was, which they haven't. I wish the NBA in cracking down on other aspects of injury reporting would force teams to tell us the truth and give us more information on these things. But that's a rant for another day. The Ringer MBA show is presented by Fandall. Fandall, Fandall, same game parlay's quick bets for jumping in live and your way so you could build the bet that fits your play. Plus, don't miss out on holiday offers and surprises all month long. Download the Fandall app or head to fandle.com slash ringer MBA to get started, 21 plus and

present in select states or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming, gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler, or visit RG-Helph.com. Call 1-88-789-7777 or visit cpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Four weeks, Logan, it's a long freaking time in the NBA. And in this case, there are, so minimum 16 games. Count from four weeks from today, minimum 16 games that they're without Yokic. That's a lot of games in a four-week span, by the way. So it's heavy on games, and it's also 10 of those 16 are on the road.

But it's kind of soft in terms of the opponents. So they are two games into a seven-game trip right now. They have Toronto, Cleveland, here in Brooklyn. I'll go see them. I think that's Sunday. Philly and Boston. So not a murderer's row on that road trip, but still, seven-game road trip. They're home for a couple of games against Atlanta, Milwaukee.

They're on the road again at New Orleans and Dallas. Again, not world beaters here. Home against Washington, Charlotte, and the Lakers. And then they're at Washington, Milwaukee, and Memphis. So, like, not a lot of brutal teams in there. A lot of, like, middling to bad teams in there. Like, they could stay afloat, potentially. But, like, you don't, Yokic isn't your typical, like, star player that you miss.

And you're like, oh, we'll just find scoring elsewhere. That dude is the hub of everything. So, look, the good news is, Aaron Gordon and Christian Brown, who've been out for quite a while here, are both potentially coming back somewhere during this road trip. David Adelman and the coach had said that the other day. So they may get at least two starters back soon. And the other good news is, like, they made a really great offseason move, one that I still don't understand from the king's side of it, where they traded Dario Sarich for Jonas Valanchunus. And Jonas Valenzhenius is a starting caliber center who was playing short minutes behind Yokic and he can handle a lot.

Gordon can play centered small ball lineups. He has done that a lot. I think they can weather this, Logan, and they're 22 and 10. They're in third in the West. The precarious part is that the West is the West, right? Like, they're only a game behind the Spurs for second, five and a half behind the Thunder for first. But they're only one game ahead of Houston and the Lakers. There are only three games up on the seventh spot, which is Phoenix right now.

Like, if things go badly without Yokic, they could be in playing range before he gets back. Yeah, that's true. I mean, but it's also, they also have Jamal Murray playing like an all-star right now, which is something that we should add to that point. He's average 25 a game, seven assists. He, it all goes right. If they just go, it's a little bit above average during that stretch, they can hold down the fort.

If they even, you know, maybe bump down to it, maybe a five seat and just hold the line there, they'll be in good shape. It'll be a relatively normal nugget season in terms of record by the time he gets back. and then they can go on a run. We don't know when he's going to come back. The other thing that is interesting here is, you say he's going to miss maybe, what, 16 games potentially? I mean, 16 is the minimum.

At least, right? That would put him out of the... No, but what I'm saying is that'll take him out of the award running. And if he's going for... Which means, you know, my MVP pick for Wembe is... Suddenly looking better again? I think Wembe's got a five-game buffer himself right now. variety way. Hey, hey, we're still here, though. We're still here, though. But I'm curious

what the Nuggets do here, right? Because it's frustrating because this was, in a lot of ways, the Revenge season, or maybe the reminder season that, that they wanted to have. Like, hey, we are the Nuggets and we are going to try and we are here. You guys forgot about us. We gave you a preview of this during our series against OKC. But we've retooled. We've gotten rid of Michael Porter, we flipped him for Cam Johnson. Cam also out, by the way. Cam also out. But I'm saying they're going into the season thinking, hey, we're going to be, this is the deepest team we've had in years since our championship run.

We can make a real run out of it. And the other thing is you're not accounting for Yokic being out, not because you just don't want to do that for a superstar, not only because of that. But also, he doesn't miss time. Say what you want about big men and, you know, getting hurt. but he's not one of those people. This is probably going to be the longest absence that he's ever had in his career. And he's just been this pillar of consistency for this organization.

And this is a big moment for this organization to hold down the fort for him. And, you know, Adelman's doing a great job. I always compare the nuggets a little bit to the spurs, not necessarily in terms of wins, but in terms of stability over a long stretch, right? The stability around one guy and a guy that, No, they're always in the mix. No matter what their record is, no matter what they're doing in March, you can kind of pencil them into contention for the conference finals and beyond because of one guy.

And they just got to hold down the fort. And we'll see what this month is going to happen. That's a big ask. But what you said with the record and also, the people coming back in the lineup and also Jamal Murray playing well. Jamal Murray, if you want that All-Star, you better go on this heater for this next month. And that's going to be the recipe to stay afloat for this team. And thank God they're playing all those Eastern Conference teams.

Great call. Great call on Jamal Murray, who we shouted out last week for the season he's having anyway. This is a moment for him, right? Here's a guy who is the reigning title holder of Best Player Never to Be All-MBA or an All-Star. And he absolutely should get it this time. But also, yeah, these next few weeks, while balloting is still going on, are going to be really critical for that, because if he really steps into the void there and keeps the Nuggets afloat, wins some games, just, you know, becomes that leader that he needs

to be. That's only going to bolster his All-Star case, whether that's in the balloting by the fans and media and players, or whether that's in the reserve balloting by the coaches. He should get in there. You know, I think the Nuggets, we know if they're a whole in the play, as long as they still are in the play in the playoffs. So like no one's going to want to face them, right? No matter how far they slip, I think we can count on the idea that the nuggets are still going to be one of the best teams in the NBA when the spring arrives if Yokic is back fully healthy and everything else.

However far they slip in the standing is, they're like they're not going to fall out entirely, right? So there's that part. But man, I failed to do the math because I still don't accept in principle this stupid 65 game rule. And it's not stupid. like I get why they wanted to do it. But man, if Yokic is now going to potentially be ineligible to win MVP, when at the moment he went down, he was arguably the leader for MVP. And we've had multiple years here where it's either it's Yokach and Janus,

it's Yokachin Mb, it's Yokach and Shea, neck and it's just, sometimes it's a coin flip or it's a preference thing, or it's one little advanced stat that you chose this way versus that way. And now it's going to be, nope, he's not even on the ballot. he's off the board. The best player on the planet is good. And it may just be because he misses exactly 18 games or something. It is just over the threshold.

And I've always said the problem with the 65 game rule is some point, maybe as soon as this season, someone who's only played 64 games is going to have had a way better season than somebody who played 65 or 66, but we're going to have to give it to the other guy. So I don't know. It's a bummer all the way around. It's obviously a bummer for Yoko.

for Nuggets fans, everybody else, but let's hope he gets back sooner than later. I will just note one other quick tweet from Dr. Brian Souterer, who, again, somebody who chimes in a lot of sports injuries and, you know, the NBA in particular, he said that it suggests that there's some moderate bone bruising that needs time to heal. So that's when you say just hyper extension without telling us what the injury is and four weeks to be reevaluated. He's saying it suggests moderate bone bruising that needs time to heal, but great to hear. Ligaments are good, and this was best case scenario. So that's from Brian Suterer, MD.

I would just like to say really quickly, like, when we talk about injury reports, it's not just the accuracy of injury reports. It's not just for the media. Like, I mean, you don't have to care about us necessarily, but it's also your fan base, right? There's a lot of people in Denver right now who's like, when is my favorite player going to be back? We want to fucking strive for a title. can you give us some transparency here? Yeah. Who cares about it?

When they're traveling and you're looking down at the schedule like, oh, I bought tickets to see Yokic play the one time in my town. Is he going to make it or not? And also you've got all the gambling that goes on and all the fantasy sports and everything else that goes on. People deserve more transparency than what the NBA is giving them. It's not even just that. I think it's also, it's NBA, but it's also individual teams.

Because I don't want to blanket and say that all teams don't. aren't transparent with their injuries and re-evaluations and all these things. But it would just behoove you to be a little bit more transparent with yourself. Not even for us. Like, forget us in this context, for your fan base, for people that are buying tickets for your bottom line and your organizational bottom line. Let's take quick break. And we're going to go to New Year's Resolutions. That's for you, Connor.

I know you're seeing this recording. That's for you, man. Got it to a break. The Ring NBA show is brought to you by Fandu. This NBA season on Fandul, it's all about the boost. Because game days mean your chance to boost your bet and make every play pay off. That's right. All customers get a 25% same game parlay and parlay profit boost.

Let's take a look at the slate. Sixers, Grizzlies. I think I'm going to take the Grizzlies on this one just to make one particular person mad. For the Celtics Jazz, I think I'm going to take the over, and I think I'm going to take the Celtics in that matchup. Pistons Lakers, that looks interesting. LeBron's 41st birthday. I think of the over on points for LeBron, and I think the Pistons take it.

The game's never stopping with Fanduel. You've got more ways to make every win even bigger. So lock in on your bets, boost your eyes, and make every night count with Fandul. Official sports betting partner of the NBA. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states or 18 and older and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Opting required. Bonus issues, non-withterrable profit boost tokens.

Restrictions apply, including any token, aspiration, and max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook. Fandul.com. Gambling prom, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-888-8-9-77777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chat in Connecticut. And we are back. Okay. So yesterday, or in the weeks leading up to this podcast, I was just,

saying this is going to be a New Year's resolution episode. And, you know, Howard, as you guys can, you know, probably figure out, had a lot of questions for it. What kind of resolution? What are we doing? Who are the, what is this for? What subject matter can we get into? And I said there was no rules to this.

Literally to whatever you want, as long as it pertains to basketball, it's the only rule. And I'm even going to, I have ones that are set up in Victoria and Cliff are going to be very annoyed with me, but I'm adding a couple New Year's resolutions. And one of them came to mind when you were talking in the last segment. And that is doing away with this 65 game. Hallelujah. Threshold for awards, okay? Because like, perfect example, Yokic right now.

MVP is supposed to be the best, not only the best player of the season, but the player that really defined the season with his excellence, right? And if you put, not only for MVP, but if you put. if you put the 65 game rule in there, it takes away a lot of the nuance of what that is, right? The guy that defined it, the guy that has been the one, that's why I thought that Yokes should have won last year because I felt like when you go back and look at that year, you're going to think about all of the performances, the individual performances that Yokich had, right? And I know I've disagreed with a lot of people, but that's my critique of this,

or my criteria for it, excuse me. And I think that not only are you messing, with the awards and the history of your league, you're also trying to take money out of your players' pockets, right? Like, there's a lot of things that has to do, you know, with all NBA and things like that. And I know that this is a, the load management issue has been a problem, but there has to be another way because the 65 game rule,

if you have to look at it, hasn't really been fruitful for kind of anyone involved with it, right? Like, it hasn't necessarily, like, kept players on the floor. It hasn't, it hasn't, um, it hasn't done everything that you wanted it to do. I don't want to get a big word salad in here, but I don't think that it has really succeeded in the way that Adam Silver has wanted it to succeed.

And we're going to talk about other ideas that haven't succeeded later in the program, but this is one of them. Let's just do away with it, right? Let's do it. Fuck it. Listen, I... Or maybe push it down, right?

Maybe like 55 games. The difficulty, Logan, is we are in a time of load management, player rest. And medical staffs control most of this stuff. It's usually not the players who are opting to not play, right? Most players would just say, screw it. I want to go out there. It's the medical staffs who are erring on the side of caution

because these guys make a gazillion dollars now and they are a really massive investment. And you are also trying to look out for their longevity and for the team success in the postseason and all these other factors. And so the league is trying to incentivize the players and the teams to play as much as possible, right? That's the point of the 65 game rule.

If you go through the history of awards, I don't recommend anybody to do this. You might be bored very quickly. But we, the media, who vote on most of these awards, have not generally rewarded a lot of guys who come in under that 65 game mark anyway. This is kind of an unofficial standard that we've all collectively employed over decades. It's always mattered, just unofficially. We didn't need a rule. But they needed a – so the rule wasn't for us.

The rule was for the players. They needed to give them a hard and fast barrier there where it's like, do not drop below this. Or you're missing out on awards. You're missing out on some legacy items. You're missing out potentially on bonuses, whatever it may be. But I don't think it has changed a lot of behavior, frankly. The NBA is going to immediately push back and hopefully they don't like, you know, slam me in a tweet like they did the Athletic a week ago. But maybe they have data that says this has changed.

behavior, I don't know that we have seen a major impact of the 65 game rule in the way that they had hoped. If you've got the date of the NBA, I'm sure you'll reach out and let me know kindly, diplomatically. Well, they can ask you on Twitter. You ain't never going to see it. And I won't because I'm not on Twitter. Ha ha. Hit me on Blue Sky NBA. Actually, they're there too, just not the PR account. Yeah, anyway, enough on the 65 game rule. But like, I'm with you on that one. We should just note, by the way, real quick, because yes, we did have a text back and forth where I was saying, well, what do we mean my resolutions?

Because this is the way my brain functions. Like, these are our resolutions, but not for ourselves. We don't need to improve ourselves. We're great. We're fine. It's the NBA that needs approving. So these are our resolutions. We're kind of like putting this in their head.

Like we would like the league to make the resolution to get rid of the 65 game rule along with some other things here. But so that's that's kind of the exercise. It's almost a wish list as much as it. Okay. Yeah. Look at Howard pandering to the audience. I'm just letting them know what we're doing here. I just don't want to be all right.

They're listening. They're like, okay, let's get to the next resolution. Okay, what is your resolution? I have a couple others, but it's your turn now. Number one also at the league level. This one's for Adam Silver. Stick with an all-star game format, Adam. Bro.

Just pick one and stick with it. It doesn't, if it doesn't immediately click with fans, it's okay. Give it time. Because the lurching from one thing to the next and this now what looks like in retrospect, just desperate throwing shit against the wall every year, trying to revive it, it looks worse when you're constantly changing. If you stuck with one thing, maybe people would eventually kind of like accept that, oh, this is actually an improvement over the past. Here's a quick review, folks. 2018, they first bring in the playground draft kind of thing, but they didn't do it out in front of everybody. They did it in private.

So Steph and LeBron were the captains that year They drafted their teams out of the All Star pool Missed out on a ratings bonanza But they fixed that the next year 2019 Janice and LeBron were the captains And they drafted live on TNT And it was fucking great

It was awesome We had a blast That same year though The game was kind of a dud Adam and Chris Paul who at that time was president of the Players Association Had a conversation said you know what We need to fix this we need to do something

We need to incentivize players more So they brought in a bunch of different ideas including playing for charity and some other mechanisms. And then they did the ELEM ending, which was the target score in the fourth quarter thing. The game was great in 2020 in part because of the ELEM ending. It charged it up. It worked. It was great.

A couple more cycles. And the ELEMending wasn't making the game any better. And the game was a dud again. So in 2024, out of the blue, they killed the ELEM ending. But they also killed the playground style draft. They scrapped the live draft, which had been everybody loved it. loved it. Media loved it. Some players It's content for your league.

Yeah, like it was uncomfortable for some players. There were some moments, but it were like man up, tough shit. It was fine. It was fun for everybody else. Adam never should have killed that one. He never adequately explained why they did. 2025 this past February, they go to the tournament style with two semis and a final. I will tell you from my vantage point in the arena that night, especially the two earlier games, the two semis, right? They were actually good because it was...

The games weren't the problem, though. The games were the problem. It was the 35 minute toast to T&T. That was the problem. We had two problems. One was T&T's self-indulgence, and I say this with all respect. We're both been employees of Turner.

We both employees of Turner. I love all those people. We all love Chuck and Shaq and Ernie and Kenny, and they deserved their moment. It was too long of a moment, and it shouldn't have been in the middle of the fucking game. Like, this was just bad, programming. It was not, the problem wasn't the game itself or the, the series of games.

And the other problem, by the way, Kevin Hart. So like, they didn't give that enough of a chance on its own. And now they changed it again. It's still a tournament, but now we're doing world versus US with a confusing process where we're still voting east and west. We're not voting world and US players. We're voting east and west. And then the league has to figure out, do we have enough international guys for the eight-man international team, and then two eight-man squads of U.S.-born players. And if there's not enough of one or the other, then they're going to add, and there will be more than 24 all-stars so that they can get this right. Like, there's just too many variables now. It's made it more confusing again. They're still doing a tournament. So, like, I guess to the extent

that I thought it sort of worked last year, minus Kevin Hart, minus TNT's, you know, halftime, you know, thing. They're still trying the tournament thing. And I still think that's good because putting a time limit on these games that is shorter, I think these are 12-minute games, that's the right idea. It needs to be short and sweet and with an intensity that that, that, that, uh, ratchets up because we don't have four quarters of just throwing al-a-oops and dicking around. We have to actually play. If you want to win this thing, you got a really short span. Let's go. So anyway, uh, I'm good with the new thing. thing. The voting process and everything else and how they're going to get the roster is done.

It's still annoying. It's too many steps. But the tournament itself, I think, shows promise. It's better than the old All-Star game. I'm good with that. I would still rather have the live draft that we had. But whatever happens, whatever happens, however this goes, however much Kevin Hart tries to screw the whole thing up, just stick with this NBA. If it doesn't work, if the fans, if there's backlash, fine, fuck it. Do it again next year until it sticks. Just stop. lurching for one thing to the next okay uh resolution and sermon hey man let k hart get his checks bro let him get his checks man hey if he if not for the NBA would kevin hart still the NBA and whatever the commercials he's in uh doing the home alone uh Kevin thing like I without that what is I don't know

Kevin Hart I don't know Kevin Hart all I do know is he has never turned down he don't turn down checks he's doing everything he's going to be everywhere everywhere all at once what was the movie he's that movie I don't blame Kevin Hart I blame I blame I blame I blame Turner and the NBA for constantly involving him and everything inexplicably. Yes, we know he's from Philly, Cliff. We understand. Cliff is a couple, a couple, couple, couple, couple points to that. One, this is the thing I think about the, the All-Star game in general.

Like, fans, when they come, they don't want a homework assignment going into this. They don't want, and I said this last year in the live show, like, they don't want a homework assignment. They don't want to be like, oh, they want to copy and paste. they know that this is going to be, they know that this is going to be not necessarily as competitive as it should be. The people that are

watching, they are watching to see the spectacle of their favorite players playing basketball. Now, and the thing that is been a criticism of Adam Silver throughout a lot of people in the league is that he's a terminally online commissioner that wants to please

everyone. That is always the critique if you go down sidelines, pregame, everywhere. That is everything that you hear about him. And this constant push and pull and always trying to crowdsource and get all of these opinions in a room, that's what you get. You get one year where you're doing a player draft. Then someone gets in your ear about, you know, this isn't that good, right? You know, or you read all the tweets, and then you go and you pivot and you pivot and you pivot.

I think out of silver honestly just needs a little bit. bit of constructive F you in him. Like, he needs to, it's a little inner David Stern. Just a little bit, right? Like, stop listening to so many people. Listen to your gut. Listen, right here. Right here.

And that's my, that's my critique of Adam Silver. And that's the reason why, like, All Star Weeket has been just so many data points and bro, we just want to watch hoop. We really just want to watch hoop. Like, dog, and here's the other thing. Before all of these changes, and you know this because you've been covering the league a long time, the All-Star game would just go in ebbs and flows, right? Like whether it'd be the dunk contest being in vogue or whether it be the three-point

contest being in vogue. And then whether it's built on moments, in my opinion, more than it's built on structure, right? Like the O3 All-Star game was great because it was Mike's last one, right? The 92 one was great because it was Magic's last one, right? And one of the things I think with all these data points and all these things that are going on, and I don't even know how they're going to get him into the All-Star game. But, like, how are we going to give LeBron his true moment when it's in a tournament fashion, right? Like, and especially other guys like that, I'm more of a traditionalist in this sense.

I didn't even really see nothing really wrong with the game, right? Like, I did like the additive of the picks and, like, the playground structure. But I like a game. Like, some years it's more the competitiveness comes from the players. not necessarily the format. The reason why, hold on one second, I know you got a long-winded thing. Hold on one second.

I'm going to land the plane. 01, which is generally considered the greatest All-Star game of the 2000s, the reason why that was so competitive was because of the players. It was because you had Kevin Garnett saying, we're going to fucking play hard. It's because you had Allen Ivers

and saying we're going to play hard. Because you had Kobe and Shaq saying, okay, we're going to turn it on when it's time, we're going to give them a show. the reason why it's not as competitive is because you don't have the guys that are or the guys that would say it's competitive or want to get it's competitive or either aging out or they're just not there like jalen brown and jason tatum aren't saying let's go guys let's kick their ass right you know who is though wimby wimby is like yo we are going to make this i am competitive at all times and that and i think that that was part of the ebb and flow but i don't think that the format honestly is going to make that it's going to be right here it's going to be right here it's going to to be the players that are involved because you could have all the formats that you want to have. But if somebody's in the corner like, I don't go fuck about this game, then you're still even in a

tournament, even in a tournament format, you're still going to have non-competitive basketball. So it has to be the, it's on the players in this instance, in my opinion. All true. It's always been on the players. But the trick of the All-Star game is everybody knows going in. This is just a silly exhibition at the end of a long. weekend where they put these guys through the grinder. They've had to do a gazillion appearances.

I want to say had to do. A lot of these are also optional. It's like the players doing their own. Their capital is here. Yeah, but by Sunday evening of All Star Weekend, everybody just wants to go home. So that's part of this too. And All Star Weekend wasn't quite as packed or chaotic or insane or as corporatized back in the day.

So guys, we're thinking a little fresher by Sunday. Now they're just burned out and want to. And by the way, because. Maybe a little fresher. Maybe, you know, depending on the city. You know, All-Star break used to just be basically like everybody stopped playing on like Thursday or maybe stop playing on Wednesday. They had a travel day. Friday, Saturday, Sunday was All-Star. And then everybody had to be back for practice by like Monday afternoon.

Adam was the one who decided to make this a full week. So the other thing is like everybody else who's not in part of All-Star weekend, then it's like full week off or not maybe entirely because like they, you know, at some point later in the week during the All-Star break, they have to report back for practice. But the All-Stars themselves are, like, sitting around going, like, okay, it's an honor to be here. It's great. But, like, damn, my teammates are on an island somewhere. But here's the other thing, no. They still get that. Also, I've covered teams with multiple All-Stars.

They get their two days in Cabo, too. They still get their two days on the beach. But their teammates got five days in Cabo, and the All-Stars had to wait until Sunday until this stupid all-star game is over, basically. Like, I don't mean to say it stupid. That's how I think some of them feel about it. They're just trying to get through it. without being injured and to get on a plane to a tropical island somewhere. So I think that that's been the problem, though, with not only in an NBA,

but I think sports in general, as I think that from a player standpoint, there is a, at least been a stagnation in the mindset of we need each other to grow this game. Like, if you go look at, if you talk to stars of today versus you talk about the stars of yesteryear, magic Johnson is always like, yo, we're trying to grow this league. We're trying to grow this league. We're trying to do this. Now it's like these stars are like, oh, I don't really need any of this. I got my money.

I'm good. I don't really. Like there's a difference in mindset on how to grow the league. And I feel like there's a stagnation there. I think NBA is the poster child for that right now because I think MLB is, if you look at MLB, they're growing at a rapid pace. NFL is just a machine. But the NBA in particular, the players and the people involved are like, it feels like

growing the game is beneath them. And I think you see that in the All-Star format right now in terms of the, in terms of the mindset going into the weekend. Because this is how you sell your league with these types of events. Yeah. So let me wrap up this item this way. One, I agree with all of that. I have a longer version of that that I will save for another day or for some offline conversations with people. But like, I absolutely believe that that's a thing.

I don't think that they have quite as much of a sense of duty to the game. and promoting and growing the game because the game is now such a juggernaut. The league is such a juggernaut. And they are making such incredible money just a ridiculous proportion more than what their predecessors did. So there's less of a sense of needing to do that. And I kind of get that. So when it comes to the All Star game, the fact is like the league is committed to this, right? This is an old construct.

Maybe it should just be done away with, but they're never going to do away with it. It's a corporate event. It's the sponsors event and all this stuff. So you have to trick yourself into thinking it matters. And the reason that I liked the tournament style and the reason I liked some of the other features that they had applied in previous versions of changing it up was if you make the game shorter. If you put other stakes in line like with the charities, you're trying to give them something else to grasp on to so you can forget for a moment that this is ultimately a meaningless exhibition. And when younger people especially push back and say like, hey, old man, why are you even care about this? we just like seeing all the dunks and like, you know, half court threes and shit.

If you go back and it's older players feel the same as some of us older media, like that 2001 game Logan was referring to, like the Iverson and Marbury ended up in this amazing duel. Guys tried hard. And usually it was the fourth quarter where it amped up. But even from get, even from jump, like if you look at those games, did they feel like a regular season game with real stakes or a playoff game? No, of course not. And no one is asking for that. but there was a little bit more attempt to actually stop each other.

And if you don't play any defense at all, then none of it really, like any, you know, these are world class basketball players. Of course, they can get off shots from anywhere at any time and throw alley-ups and stuff. We already know they can do that. The trick of the game and why the NBA is fun is, can you do it when someone's trying to stop you?

So anyway, I do think that shorter games and other measures that you could, where you amp up the stakes from minute to minute, it can trick the your the psyche of the player into trying harder. So yes, Logan, you're right. It's on the players. But I think format does matter and can cater to that. So anyway, what's your second resolution? My second resolution is, and this is not going to be a surprise to you,

but we need to embrace the youth movement that's going on in the NBA at this moment. And I say that not only just as like from a consumer standpoint, but from a league standpoint, I think that right now we are caught in the middle of two, two generations. Obviously, there's the Kevin Durant, the LeBron James, the Steph Curry of it all. And then that brings at this question of, what is it going to be like when these people are gone? Right. We continue to see this.

It's been a storyline over the last couple of seasons, right? But in the midst of that, I think we're missing the point here where we have so many young, exciting superstars right now. And I think we're starting to see that this season, the gravitational pull to them. but I think we need to instead of yearning for yesteryear and yearning for the nostalgia and like what is going to happen when you know all these people leave

are we going to have a league I think we need to transition that into thinking yo man the league is in good hands with all of these different people and I think even just how we see the game and how we look at the game because we're at a point right now

in this season and I think the divide is very striking like the team's led by step by, well, there's not a team led by LeBron at this point, right? But the teams led by Steph and the teams led by KD, who was kind of like a, he's, he's the, I don't know if he's the best player yet on that team. Maybe he is somebody's probably going to yell at me, but he isn't the priority of that organization's, priority of that organization's future.

But all of those guys and all those teams that they reside on aren't, on paper at least, beating the Oklahoma City Thunder in a seven-game series, not beating the Spurs in a seven-game series, not beating the Nuggets necessarily in the seven-game series if they were fully healthy. And I think now, like, and we saw it a little bit last year with the Pacers in Oklahoma City Thunder,

but we just need to embrace this new movement and get to know these young guys because I really think the league is in such good hands with these young players from a marketing standpoint, from a game standpoint, and from an entertainment standpoint. and I don't want us to be stuck in the past. And that doesn't mean that we're not celebrating our legends because I absolutely think

there's going to be a time and a place for that. But I think that we need to look at the Anthony Edwards and look at all these guys and look at them on that level of they are ready to take that mantle because it feels like right now we are in, we are approaching that 1998, 1998, 1999 like Jordan, feels like post-apocalyptic, where we're like, well, we're all these players, we're all these things. And you blind yourselves and you don't see the Tim Duncan's coming down the pike, right? You don't see Kobe and Shaq that are coming down to pike these superstars, these generational talents. And I think we can do a better job of just embracing this new culture.

Then that's what I want to see. That's my vibes resolution for the league. Yeah. I mean, I think the NBA has done what they can to lean into those guys. But there's certainly still right. Like Katie, LeBron and Steph, we're all on on Christmas for a reason, right? Yeah. And granted, LeBron's on Christmas in part because Luke is on on Christmas or vice versa.

Both of them would have been on. If Luca were still a Maverick, which he should be, I think the Mavericks and Lakers would have both been on and LeBron still would have been on. So I don't mean to diminish that. But there's a reason that LeBron and Steph and KD are still in all these marquee games and tentpole nights of the NBA calendar. But they've, you know, look, they're certainly doing their best to make sure that people know who Victor Webbenyama is. and Anthony Edwards has been, you know, he's had his moment in the spotlight quite a bit in the last few years. The issue becomes, because we're always chasing Jordan, right? Everything becomes a Jordan construct.

You can't just be a great young player. You can't just be talented. You also got to win. You got to win a lot. And you got to win spectacularly. And you got to have a little bit of charisma to you, too. Tim Duncan was one of the best players of all time. certainly one of the dominant players of his era.

He was never the quote unquote face of the league, whatever the phrase means, because he was Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan didn't want to be face of the league. Tim Duncan just wanted to like clock in, clock out, win some games, win some championships, hang some banners, and then go like work on some cars somewhere. Like he was not interested. And occasionally do a real ones interview that you guys can go check out. How many, how much armed?

twisting did that take um he did one with with uh with richard jefferson too within the last year um but like he wasn't doing that stuff like podcast didn't exist during his time but he was certainly wasn't doing that stuff during his own time like he didn't want anything to do with interviews or or or peeling back the curtain letting anybody anybody in on who tim duncan was that was not his his deal so it takes everything so i like your point is is is i think correct i agree but like it has to happen organically And I think these guys have to seize it and they have to want it. I think so. Yeah.

And that is a really good point. I think also like one thing that I have been impressed with is like the apparatus around these young guys now. And I'm talking about this season. When you talk about the new league partners and like their investment in storytelling about the league. And that's something that I've complained about in years past where it felt like we weren't at least. And I know that it's it's winning. It's it's it's charisma. It's a whole thing.

but I don't know up until like this season how good of a job the league was actually doing to promote its young guys and like telling their stories and like having it. It felt like for a long time they were just like banking on the fact like, oh yeah, we got stuff for, you know, 10 more years.

We'll just bargain him. But it's like there's other guys here that we can, that we can market, that we can push the, you know, push the agenda, if you will. I don't have a better word to say that. But I just, I think we should have more of that because at this point, the difference between a couple years ago and now is those stars are actually fading. And now that they are actually fading, it's time to like that. That OKC San Antonio like stretch was fucking awesome.

Awesome. It was like a mini playoff stretched over the course of like. I don't want. It made me think like, yo, Steph, yo, chill out. Yo, yo, just go sit right here. Watch with us. LeBron. Just come watch with us. Like, chill out. But it was great. And it was that, that was that was that is what made me promise. this thought. It's like there's, there's a new era upon us. So, um, just invest in the youth is, is, uh, the good news. The good news is like, Wambi's going to be around for quite a while. And so are Shea and Chet and J-dub and, you know, like, Wambi's got this great supporting cast growing around him with Castle and Dylan Harper and Deere and Fox. Like, these teams are going to be around for a while. They're going to play, like, it's going to be awesome. Like, we have not had a lot of true rivalries. And they don't last long because the turner. over is so fast in today's NBA. So like here's hoping look two small market teams. I don't care

where teams are located like as long as the players are great and they can get a direct flight to okay. I hope that they can give us a direct flight now they're good again. You know what? If we get if they're in the finals enough years in a row maybe eventually the airlines will start flying their dream. We get one at like fucking six a.m. or something like that. Thank you. Oklahoma hates when we talk about this. Let's just shove that. I was it. Okay. My bad. My bad. San Antonio. Let me look. look right now is a San Antonio

you can get to a little bit easier although San Antonio Miami those two finals were tough to bounce back and forth between anyway

no look there are some great young players in this league the league is going to be fine leagues in great hands

it'll be great my next resolution Logan this one's kind of like for more than one party here this is for Yannas and the Bucks

together I just want them to find happiness in 2026 with or with out each other, whatever it means. You know, like, it can just be like Janus in the box, look at each other and saying, you know what?

I still love you, but I'm not in love with you. You know? Wow. It'd be fine. It was a good run. Yeah. We had a good run, you know? Right.

Like, they'll always love each other. They'll always be each other's first. They won a championship together. They had some great memories. It ain't valentized debt, Beck. It ain't valetized day, get back. Relax. But it, like, sometimes these things just run their course.

And by the way, if it hasn't run its course and you actually decide to like, you know, renew your vows and stay together for the rest of time, I'm fine with that too, but fucking figure it out. Like, and I know. They're not one couple in the corner that we're just like rolling our eyes that like, y'all, what the fuck, bro? Like, we're trying to have a good night here at this very beautiful Brooklyn restaurant and you over here tripping right now.

Like, come on. Figure it out. We love you both, but figure it out. I know the bucks and yonnas are still love each other. I just think they've got a lot of issues to work out. There's a lot of passive aggressiveness going on. A lot of double dutching, a lot of in and out. Because here's the other thing.

There's another thing that is like really truly been fascinating to like to see. It's not only it's the reporting aspect, right? Like it's the, you know, Yonnas is talking to this person, but something is leaking to this person. Right. And that information isn't coming from anywhere is all I'm going to say. Right. Yeah. Like it feels like a person that is speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

It's, you know, is what it is. Yeah. Let's let's be clear. The backdrop to all this, of course, is that, you know, whichever starting point you want to look at. But let's go to August of 2023 when Tanya Ganguly from the New York Times had the interview and the extensive story with Janus in which he said, quote, winning a championship comes first. I don't want to be 20 years on the same team and don't win another championship. And he said versions of that at other points that year. And he has said versions of that since, including in the last couple of months. And as recently as last week, when he got testy with a reporter, post game after his windmill dunk during garbage time.

And then somebody asked, by the way, you still see yourself here or whatever for long term. And he said it was a disrespectful question, blah, blah, blah. I mean, he could have just said, I'm going to be here for the rest of my career. We're going to figure this out. I'm not going anywhere. And he didn't say that. He just said, I'm here now. I'm here now.

I'm wearing this jersey. I'm often fascinated about that, though, Howard. I'm fascinated by a player, not just Janus, but like the player that is looking for greener pastures, right? But it's fair for stars of his caliber, Logan, to want to be on contending teams. And the point of this whole thing right now, from his standpoint and frankly from ours as the viewers, they're not a contending team. They are nowhere near being a contending team. and they do not have the supporting cast for them to be a contending team.

I did this quickly earlier. Just look at the Ringer 100 list. Go to the top 10, top 15, top 20. Aside from maybe Devin Booker, and even there, I'm not sure. Find me a star of Janus. By the way, Janus is a caliber above Devin Booker. But find me a top 10 player or a top 15 player who has a worse supporting cast than Janus on a cunbo. We're going to talk about it.

We're going to talk about it really quickly right after we get down with this subject, actually. So that's, you're going to be wrong. But I'm just saying, like, there's a reason. And by the way, he's still in his prime. He's 31. That matters here too. He still has a lot of runway left. But that runway don't last forever.

So it's fair for Janus to be antsy about where things are. It's fair for him to potentially want out. But they do have to figure this out. It is just torturous for Bucks fans. I hear from them plenty. I'm sorry, Bucks fans that we're talking about this again. It's a thing. This is going to be resolved sometime this year.

Either they trade him by the trade deadline or they don't. They trade him in the offseason or they don't. Or he signs an extension or he doesn't. But if he doesn't sign an extension, then the trade is almost automatic at that point because it means he's not committed long term. And I'm fascinated to see what the Bucks do between now and the trade deadline because they're sending signals across the league. We are trying to build around him,

trade him. And if that's the case, I can't wait to see what they can pull off because they don't have allowed tools to work with. But hey, like, they may shock us all. I'm completely open to that possibility. I hope it happens. The last time they put it up the hat, sometime in 2026, this is going to have to resolve. The last time they pulled a rabbit out the hat, they took, they traded for Damien Liller, which was a complete surprise because the whole summer we were basically thinking that Dame was going to go to Miami. Remember that? Like we, we, that was like, that was like, basically I never thought it was going to end up with Miami just because I thought that the Blazers were so dug in. But the Bucks was still a bit of a surprise.

Yeah, I think the other thing that I've, that is just so fascinating to me for stars in, Janice's position is, okay, you want to go win a title. And I completely agree with that because, you know, you guys are competitive beings. You want that, that, you want that accomplishment. It's a very rare one. But also, like, it ain't, say you go to the Knicks. it's never going to be the same as when you went to when you were in Milwaukee. So you're weighing that, especially a guy like Janice, who continues to throw signals that he might want to go to New York.

And also, we don't know what the return is going to be if he goes to New York. They might get the Knicks and might get fleeced in this way, right? Like, I don't know. I just don't know how it's going to happen. So they're thinking about that. And like, on one hand, you're going to be a god if you stay your whole career in this other place. which you're not going to win the titles. And then if you do trade away,

you're going to probably win a title, but it ain't going to hit the same as if you want a title where you were from, especially when I'm talking about a player like Yaz. So I'm always fascinated by that. And I'm also, that leads to our next player, Mr. Steph Curry, which goes to my resolution, which is, let's treat the ledgers better on their way out.

My goodness. You saw, this is on the backdrop of the Warriors winning three of their last. last four games, but it's from all intensive purposes, and you saw them last night. I haven't seen them about a month, but the vibes are not great here. And a lot of it has to do with the roster construction around Steph Curry and the back nine of his career, pun intended, because he is a golfer. But they trade for Jimmy Butler, which honestly, it worked out for the backstretch of last season.

I don't think in the all, I don't think in the totality of it, this deal has never been. necessarily worked out. They, the Warriors front office, tried to win a negotiation with Jonathan Kaminga at all costs, even if it costed them the rest of their roster building opportunities. They have pushed away trades to get Lori marketing to keep Moses Moody and Brandon Prasimski on the roster.

Brandon Pazipsky has been a very divisive figure, both in Chase Center and outside of Chase Center. Same with Jonathan Kaminga. it seems that's where we haven't even talked about Steve Kerr and the troubles that he has had in the Bay Area, both the criticism of his coaching and just overall like Draymond quitting in the middle of a game, just all these things that are that are happening right now. And it doesn't seem that Steph Curry, the face of their franchise is a priority on the back nine of his career.

And that just sucks, right? I don't have an answer for this. but I think we need to treat our star players a lot better on their way out. Chris Paul came up, came to mind on this one. We need to, I get you want to preserve and you're running a business. But the reason why Chase Center is rocking the way it is is because of one person, one person. And there's no guarantee that you are going to draft another person like that and have the generational shifts.

So you need to put all, especially for an organization like the Warriors, you put all your, if you want to be the Lakers of your generation and change how we look at Bay Area basketball long term, you put all your chips into your best player that's ever laced them up and you figure out the rest later. And the Warriors have fumbled the bag on that. I think this was just a rant. Your thoughts, Howard Beck. I had deeper on my list of resolutions.

for just the worries to do whatever it takes to make sure that Steph's twilight is meaningful. I've said similar things about LeBron in recent years when the Lakers were screwing up left and right about his supporting cast. I can't fault the worries in the way I fault of the Lakers because the worries have tried. You can say that the Jimmy Butler thing hasn't paid off to the degree you wanted it to, but they went out and got an all-star player. They went out and got a great dude. Like to the point of what I said a few minutes ago, but you're going to be wrong,

Jimmy Butler's better than anybody on the freaking Bucks roster. By the way, Draymond Green is too, still at this stage. The Warriors have two players who are better than anybody. Yonis would kill to have Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green around him right now. That's all I'm saying. You don't need to rebut. It's just true. Okay, but I'm saying who else though?

Who else on the roster is good? No, it's a fucking drop off after that. But like, you know, like they made their mistakes, right? I've said it a thousand times. I never thought they should have used the picks that became Weissman, Moody, comminga because when they had the unfortunate benefit of being bad for a couple of years after being a championship team for years when they you know the two timelines as as zach always says it was an accident you but the point of the exercise should not have been draft young players because

we're going to have the post curry group the core no well they wanted to be the spars they thought they should have traded those picks before they ever became those players i thought that in real time at the time. I have thought that ever since. And you can also make the argument that they should have traded Draymond Green a couple years ago. There's a reason why he's still there. We all, we all know what it is. There's a reason why Clay was there as long as he was. There's a reason why the warriors have functioned the way they have the last several years, because the priority has been twofold. Try to do everything you can around Steph, but also give Steph what he needs and also what he wants. He wanted those guys around.

I think that's to an extent, I think those are red herrings. I think if you have the right roster construction and made better decisions along the way, and if ownership hadn't gotten in the way of insisting on these young guys who you believe were going to be the future in the next era, they would have made different decisions. They could have gotten better players along the way. That's all water under the bridge. What they need to do between now and the trade deadline is get whatever they can out of a coming a deal, and if that requires also putting Moody or pods or picks in it, I'm not saying

mortgage the entire future. I said this on Zach's pod yesterday. It doesn't mean mortgage the future. It doesn't mean, you know, foolishly believe that if we just make enough splashy moves, we're going to be in title contention and we can knock out the thunder. It just means don't allow yourself to be a play-in team or first round and out team if you can find a way to build at least a slightly better version of this team around Stefan Draymond and Jimmy Butler as it stands right now. It's a really hard thing to do, but I want to see a team around Steph that at least is capable

of winning a series or two. They did get to the second round last spring, and if Steph doesn't get hurt, they damn well might have made the conference finals. So is there enough work to be done around the margins to put them in the thick of things? I don't know, but they're obligated to try. And that's the thing. I don't know what the move is, but they are obligated to keep trying. And they did when they went out and got Jimmy Butler. And they, you know, you're not going to find another trade of that level,

especially with how cheaply they were able to get him. But find something, do something. Yeah, we'll see. Joe Lakeb is the de facto GM at this point. I don't care what anybody says in that organization. We all know the truth. Do you have one more where we go to mailbox? I mean, I could just like tick off a handful.

of others here that we're just having fun with. Like, resolution for the Chicago Bulls. Do something to commit to something. To do something. That is not commit to something, anything that is not mediocrity. Because the conclusion of the last 10 years is that you are committed to something. You do have goals. The goal is to win 39 to 43 games every year, be in the play in and get bounced in the

play in or the first round of the playoffs. Like, cool, great. Way to accomplish your goals. Commit to something other than mediocrity, Chicago Bulls. next resolution Trey young Lamele ball John Morant I just want them all to get traded

They can all get traded for each other Get traded somewhere else whatever Can they get trained on the same team Sure why not I don't know if that's not technically possible But like if it were Can we let's all let's all them go to Charlotte I would like the universe to resolve

To not create Achilles Rupsters in star NBA players anymore I want to see Jason Tatum, Tyrese Halliburton, Dame Lillard, all back sooner than later. Fred Ben Bleet in there, too. Kyrie Irving in his ACL. Like, just let's just get all these stars back on the court. Again, this is more wish-less than resolution.

Take the injury tagging. Just like no more injury. Exactly. There you go. And last one, one more resolution for the NBA. Just please reject expansion. We don't need a water down. Wait, hold on.

There are not shitty teams as it is. What about relocation? What about relocation? I'm trying to go to Seattle. I'm going to say this in two parts, and I'm not going to elaborate. I support relocation instead of expansion to get the NBA back to Seattle. And no, I will not say which teams on the record I think should be relocated, but I think people can figure it out.

No matter. Yo, I don't know. I think if they put a team in Seattle, me and Howard are going to be fighting to see who is going to do the first Seattle feature. Everybody's going to be clamoring to go. Seattle deserves to have a team back. Let me be very, very clear. Seattle never should have lost the same.

Sonics. They deserve to have a team again. Shout out to George and the Climate Pleasure. And his Sonic Boom podcast series, everybody should go listen if you haven't before. But no, I don't believe expansion is necessary, warranted, or wise. Have you been to Climate Pledge yet? It's great. I was in August. No. I went for a storm game. The sight lines are great. The arena is great.

I haven't been to Seattle since the Sonics left. That's a, I guess, you're East Coast. I understand. I was going to say that's kind of, that's out of pocket. I understand. East Coast Bias Speaking of East Coast Bias Let's take a quick break And Cliff is going to join us from Mailbag

And we are back Cliffy Boone at the 2 is in the building It's good to see you Cliff What's going on buddy? Lo Lo! How we're back, man Happy New Year's to you guys, man It's been a fun 2025 hanging out with y'all But I can't wait to celebrate

On this side and go out and have A festive festive New Year's But let's go out with one final mailbag of 2025. This is from Kevin Ellis, Tigers who changed their stripes. I'm curious if you guys can come up with four or five star NBA players

in NBA history who changed the most dramatically in terms of what they did for their teams. I'm not talking about improvement, but rather going from one skill set or play style to another. I'd just like to see if you could come up with some tigers who really did change their stripes mid-career. Thanks, Kevin.

I got a couple. Howard? You know, it's funny. Howard threw me these questions beforehand. It was like, you need these. And I was like, huh, I think this is a write-up-my-well house, especially off a memory. So I think I'm going to throw it. I think Will Chamberlain is probably the gold standard of this, right,

where he goes into the Lakers in the backstretch of his career. He's scoring a lot of points, you know, with the Sixers and the Warriors. And he has to change because, you know, one, he's getting older, playing on the roster with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. And they need him to get assists. and they need him get rebounds, and that's exactly what he does. I think he leaves the league and assists one of those years, and they go on a 33-game winning streak,

and they win the 72 title. I think that's one guy. Vince Carter, I think, of the modern NBA as a poster child for this, where he just gracefully goes into being a role player, a three-point shooter, who gets great dunks off during warm-ups that go viral. I remember those years. I saw him a couple years when he was playing for the Kings, and I was like, damn, you old, but you know, you still got it.

Still got more athleticism than everyone in this building combined. I think he is a poster child for this. If LeBron played it right, he would just, he's a reluctant poster child for this, just to do it, just be a hub for 20 minutes a game. But those are the ones that come to mind is the ones that I think, I don't know if I get to four or five because, you know, stars have egos and stuff, you know. It's a great question from Kevin here.

the difficulty is, I don't think a lot of stars, because stars do certain things really great to make them stars. So you're never going to, if you're like a great three-point shooter, or you're a great post-player back in the day when post-play was a bigger thing, you're not going to abandon it to go do something else unless you got old or got hurt or both. And so when I was thinking about this question, most of the guys who came to mind, it was because of one or the other, age, injury, sometimes both. I think the gold standard, to some extent, maybe is Kareem.

And I wrote about this a few weeks ago, analogizing Kareem late in his career to LeBron now, where Kareem one year, it just became apparent. It was time to pass the torch. And you just saw the roles flip. Magic became the hub of that offense. Kareem played a supporting role, sometimes even was like the third option after Magic and Worthy. And that's what I thought LeBron needed to do now on a team with Luca.

And so that was the column I wrote on the ringer.com, few weeks back. But again, that's like, that's age influence, right? Tim Duncan making way for Kauai Leonard and, and then enabling Tim to, to win his final ring, too. Yeah, Logan. I have one. Bill Walton.

Yeah. Bill Walton. Starts his career. I mean, injuries played a part in this, but starts this, I'd also recommend everybody who watch the ESPN doc on Bill Walton. It's amazing. It's like yearly programming for me. But starts off with the, with the Portland Trail Blazers, just,

injury history has got so bad to the point where he had to leave Portland because he just didn't trust the doctors anymore. Goes to San Diego, plays for the Clippers. Isn't injuries do him in again. He's out of the league to the point where he gets a call from Boston. I think he's out of the league for like a year or two. And Boston calls him like, hey, do you want to play with us? He winds up being an important cog on the 86 Celtics because he's just a role player happy to be there. Right. I think that is if you are injured and have to change your strikes, or I think he is the the player that you have to look towards to do that. Bill Walton, I think is the greatest, probably the greatest example, to be honest with you.

Could be. There are a few others that came to mind, and like one of them kind of fits that bill too. Like, Grant Hill. Grand Hill was going to be the next MJ of some sort, right? He was on that list of guys who were supposed to be next Jordan. Grant Hill was a freaking awesome player, hadle the ankle issues first in Detroit and then in Orlando. And so Grant Hill was never able to reach those highs again. So when you say like a star who changed their game, he was a star who could no longer be a star.

But Grant Hill was an awesome freaking role player and a great leader and really critical to some Sun's teams. And like he bounced around a bit at the end. But like Grant Hill adapted his game. As Vince Carter did, Logan mentioned earlier, as Paul Pierce actually did a little bit with the Nets and the Wizards and Clippers, guys do it in various levels of effectiveness and some are not as thrilled to play more of the supporting role or a bench role. Andrew Godala?

It Godala is another great example, for sure, for sure. Like, Igadala was, you know, there was, for a while there were two AIs in Philly, right? You know, Iverson and Igadala. And then he was a different player in Denver and then a different player still with the Warriors and became finals MVP by just being the best version of a role player that you could possibly be.

I'll say another one, no. It's probably not going to get as much acclaim or it's probably not, you're probably going to like roll your eyes at this, but Chris Bosch is another one that had to change. Oh, that's actually, you know what? That's actually a great career. That's a great.

Kevin Love is someone, you know, that had to change his career mid-strike as he was... You had to fit in or fit out. Fit in or fit out. Exactly, right? But like, they don't get that because it's like, you know, the shadow of LeBron cast, but those guys had to adjust.

Dwayne Wade as well And that as well Like he literally in the midway Between the midway of the first season I believe it was the first season Or might have been the second season To Big Three where he literally had to have a conversation With LeBron saying like you are the one

And I'm going to be a number two guy And that's a big deal because Dwayne Wade Going into that was considered a top five guard of all time And conceivably be that as well right now But Yeah I think those guys need that as well Need that attention as well

Yeah Those are all great calls. Joel M. B. is actually in the midst of something like that right now, right? Like if he never gets back to who he was, he's very groundbound, but he can still score a lot of points. Like he's more jump shooter now than inside score because he just doesn't have the same level of bounce and physicality in the paint. So he's in the middle of some sort of, you know, just change here. I don't know.

How about Patrick Ewing in a 99 season? Would that count as a guy as a tiger champion? changing his stripes because, you know, he's Pat, you win, but then he winds up being like a role player, a really good role player down the stretch, but he wasn't the guy that he was. And again, another one, another one influenced by, um, by injury and by limitations and age and by, you know, Spreewell and Houston being the, the, the better hub for the offense there. There's a few other quick ones here. Um, I'll go ahead. Go ahead. No, just, um, Jason Kidd. Um, this is, this is a deep cut early in his career and he was always awesome but early in his career they sometimes called

him asin because he had no jay and jason kid became a really great three-point shooter um so that's adding a skill set i think that's outside of what the the emailer kevin was asking about but i think i think about jason kid adding the three-point shot becoming a great three-point shooter i think about a marie stoutemeyer who was just you know a jumping jack who then developed a mid-range game and how that expanded his game. Carmelo adding the three as a really reliable three-point shooter in the back stretch of his career, or maybe midway through. I don't know Carmelo counts though. I don't know Carmelo counts though because he wasn't able to like, I mean, he was a good player, but he wasn't able to buy into being a fully buying. He was always going to be a score who didn't do a lot else.

He was never going to be a great playmaker. He was never going to be a great defender. And those are the things that everybody was always asking for that he never kind of got around to. But, so yeah, that's fair. I just thought about, Because he's another guy who developed a three later in his career. We talked about the 99 finals with Pat Ewing, but we didn't talk about the other side of that, which was David Robinson, who had to adjust his game for Tim Duncan and realize that, I'm not the best player on this team. And he was the face-up. So we'll see. I really just talked through all of that because I don't have any idea about this next question.

And this is all Howard's question. I literally have nothing. But if I had to, I had to give a look at a couple of quick alerts because I'm like, dude, you're not going to want to try to answer these off the top of your head. I answer the first one off the top of my head. I'm really proud of that.

But it's not the top of your head because I spoiled it and told you 40 minutes ago. I could have got it though. Because when you did it, you were like, no, in the conversation really quickly, when Howard was like, I don't know if you're going to get this. And you're like, I don't know how to do research. I sprouted off like five names. Like, oh, Will, this guy, this guy, this guy.

I could have did it. I could have fucking did it. Absolutely. Fine. Also, just for Kott... Cliff, what we got? Also, just for context, please never refer to Audrey Yodal as AI.

No disrespect. No disrespect. Is that as bad as saying that Oklahoma, you can't get direct flights there and the downtown is only a mile wide? It's bad as saying, calling San Francisco San Fran. Oh, that one kills me.

That one kills me. Then Frisco, do not say Frisco. Frisco's in Texas people. That's a different divide. Because I'm going to... a matter of fact before we get to clip's question there's a there's a dregs one a legendary uh san francisco a luminary um who gives you the actual history of san francisco and frisco and its relationship to texas so anyway i will send that offline go to cliff for the last question because i'm like

because all right this is from john majuski uh diehard mba analogs in the spirit of christmas who is the john of current NBA players. I'm thinking somebody tough, gritty, and perpetually underrated, but very, very good in the clutch. Also needs to be funny and charismatic. Draymond, question mark, he comes closest for me, but he doesn't seem quite right. Historically, Leibird fits in some way, but he's too big of a star by the time he was a pro. What about Robert Ory? How about Hans Gruber? Somebody immensely skilled and talented, but can't help but get in their own way during the biggest moments. James Harden, question mark? Eager to hear your thoughts. Professor John Majuse,

and Meridis, Department of History, UC Santa Barbara. Shout to John Majuski. I asked a fun time you. You see Santa Barbara. That's my contribution to this question. Shout out Isla Vista. If you know, you know. Shout out to Santa Barbara.

Shout to the gouchos. My wife is a goucho. So always love to answer questions from UCSB alums. This is a great question. This is, turns out Logan's only seen diehard like once. Me being the age I am, have seen it approximately 5,732 times, give or take. I love this question.

Ellis from Diehard is, in fact, my avatar every December on social media and is on blue sky right now. John McLean, I'd like the description. I like the outline we're drawing here trying to find an NBA player. And I think you're right that Draymond is not quite the right fit there. And I thought about this. It turns out actually it's the guy playing right next to him. him. I think Jimmy Butler is John McLean. Like, think about what McLean at one point calls himself,

when he's talking to Hans and he's saying, who are you? And he says, just a fly in the ointment, a pain in the ass. That's Jimmy. He's, he's a fly in the ointment. He's a pain in the ass. He's, but in the best way possible, sometimes not the best way possible. I think that he would say. But Jimmy Butler definitely underrated for the totality of his career. He's had some honors, but he's not your classic NBA superstar who's dropped in 20. He just does a lot of little things along the way, but he can score in the clutch. He's definitely a guy you want to go to in clutch time as a defender as well, as a playmaker as well.

And he's got the charisma. Like you said, like, again, the right call, John McLean, funny, little quippy, some charisma. That's Jimmy Butler. So I think Jimmy Butler is our John McLean of the NBA. Hans Gruber was a little harder. Like Hans is super smart. he's a criminal mastermind right up to the point where he falls like 35 stories to his death while trying to hang on to Holly's Rolex watch um it's it's a it's a tough call here i settled on

rudy gobert hans has got the german accent going got that cool european vibe rudy's bringing the french vibe um rudy sometimes clever but like like hans kind of like maybe fatally flawed a little too sure of himself, maybe tries a little too hard, specifically on offense, because you're not an offensive player, Rudy Gobert, I'm sorry. So I think Gobert is where I've settled on this.

But for sheer casting purposes, like, Yokich would be just such a great movie villain and talk about, like, the accent that goes with it, too. So I kind of like Yokic there. Hans was supposed to be German in this movie. Apparently, the German was not quite accurate, or was not quite grammatical. So maybe we need a real German.

Maybe it's Dirk Novitsky, but that's past NBA. So our listener did not ask for an Ellis standing, but because Ellis might be my favorite character in the movie and is my avatar, I'm just going to say that I would describe Ellis as the kind of like self-impressed shit talker who thinks he's a lot more clever than he actually is. And that would be Dylan Brooks. So there you go. There's your diehard NBA comps for.

the day. So you're saying you love Dylan Brooks. I do. I think Dylan Brooks is awesome. He's fun. Steve Kerr may disagree. Steve Kerr got his own problem. But I just love seeing the compilations of like Dylan Brooks fucking LeBron.

I love it. I love it. It's funny. You know, the hand slaps all that. That's my, again, I don't know shit about Dior. Those are my contribution. Dylan Brooks. And I liveista.

Real quick, by the way, to our listener, Harry Liggins, the AI stepover email is still in the archive. It's still in the can. It's the top shelf. We're going to get to it as soon as Roger gets back on this podcast for a Tuesday pod when we do the mailbag. So who knows, maybe we'll break it out on Friday when it's just me and Roger. We'll get to it, but we've got to do that one when Roger's on the pod. All right. Miss everybody.

Miss you, Roger. We will see everyone next year. first of foremost, I will be back next Tuesday. Howard will be back, presumably with Rajabelle. And that's been another addition of Real Ones. Happy holidays. We gave you an hour, 20 minutes. You know how we do on these Howard, Logan ones.

It was very long-winded. We got a lot to say. Real Onesmailbag at gmail.com. Real onesmail back at gmail.com. Real ones, mailbag at gmail.com. Tap in with us every Tuesday. We will do our best to get to your questions. We will see you next year.

All the shits. Happy holidays. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas And affiliation with the Kansas Star Casino Or 18 and older and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-Gambler or visit RGELP.com.

Call 1-88-7-8-9-777-7 or visit ccpg.org Backslash chat in Connecticut or visit MDGamblinghelp.org and Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gamblinghelpline, MA.org or call 1-800-327-50-50 for 244. or seven support in Massachusetts or call 18778-8 Hope N.Y or text Hope N.Y in New York.