The Ringer NBA Show - NBA Preseason Power Rankings, Part 2 | Group Chat

Episode Date: September 29, 2021

Jonathan Tjarks joins Justin and Wos for Part 2 of our NBA preseason power rankings. This week we count down from 22 to 16, starting with the Hornets (0:45) and moving on to the Wizards (11:25), Pelicans (23:50), Raptors (35:15), Knicks (44:30), Pacers (52:35), and Grizzlies (1:00:15). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Wosny Lambre, and Jonathan Tjarks Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? I'm JJ John D. Stramski. And I'm Jason Gough, and if you haven't heard, the ringer has gone local. I'm bringing the fire. I'm bringing the rain from the Big Apple with my show, New York, New York. And I'm reping Shy Town with my new show The Full Go on All Things Chicago. We've got episodes three nights a week with all the reaction to the local teams and guests. Plus bonus episodes around all the big games and storylines.

So whether you're uptown, downtown, downtown, in the burbs, or a transplant. Make sure you follow New York, New York, and the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. I am Justin Barrier, joining me Big Waz, or for at least as long as nobody checks his expense reports. He's still with us. And filling in on our power ranking journey. Jonathan Charks, what's up, my friend? I liked your Chet Holmgren Pete Davidson comp last week. That was pretty solid scouting right there, Justin.

See? Nobody believed me, but Charks is over here. He's a truther. What's funny is I've been thinking about this intro a lot because we've been switching up from the normal cadence. used to do a little, like, quote or something. And the other day, I had a dream about it where we were talking with Sasha, our producer, and for some reason she needed to go to her roof, which had a pool. And then all of a sudden, we all started singing a song with all of the people at the pool.

So what do you guys think about that as the new introduction? I like to swim. So, yeah, let's do it. Variers dreams. That could be a segment. You just break down your best dream of the week and we'll talk about it for a couple minutes. There you go. So today we are going to continue our journey on the power rankings.

We did, what did we do, 30 to 23 last time. Today we're going to hit 22 to 16, which means we're still in some of the smaller market teams that was, doesn't particularly love. But I will say that people responded, they loved the Spurs talk. it was contentious uh jorks you think the spurs are going to be good this year i just don't understand how that that happens no probably not there you go there's my contribution yeah there we go okay let's start uh with number 22 and again these are aggregate rankings from me rob and was uh Charks is probably align with us in spirit, right? You would, did you see anything in that first episode?

Yeah, go ahead. Hornets, I'd have them way higher. I'd have them at the top of this pod, if not the next pod. I'm surprised all are so low on them. Wow. Okay. Well, let's start right there because number 22 on our journey here are the Charlotte Hornets. We'll make the case, I guess, Charks, that the hornets should be higher.

Okay. One, I think Lamello really proved himself last year. He can kind of be the centerpiece of an offense. in terms of distributing the ball. He was great. I think, and then I think if you look at their wings, so they have Gordon Hayward,

Miles Bridges, I really like Kelly Ubre. I'm staying on the Ubre train if no one else is, him, PJ Washington, and then I'm forgetting someone. Hold on real quick.

Let me get a list. But the point is, they have like four or five, six, six, six, six, seven guys who are pretty good. Like, to me, this is a very deep team that can really win

multiple ways. And I think to me, they could kind of be like this year's hawks, where they've got a centerpiece point guard and they've got a lot of wings. So should be able to defend decently well. I could see this team making a run. I'm really excited for the Hornets.

Well, here is my question, because when we rank them, Rob and I both have them at 20 wise. You had them at 24. I'm high on certain players there. But this brings us to our existential question for the Charlotte Hornets. Do they acquire enough this office?

and do they have enough in-house to ensure that they can make it past the inevitable Gordon Hayward injury? Because that's the problem, right? He does fit what they want to do. It seems like they have multiple ball handlers. They're kind of this like low-rent Costco brand warriors sort of system where it's just like the ball moves. It's fun. It's fast.

But Hayward's an integral part of that. Why, do you think they have enough in order to make it pass like another, what, month-long, two-month-long, spat without a haired? I don't think so. And I think the problem is that the offense becomes too Lamello reliant when Hayward's not there. And I'm somebody who

like Jarks thinks the world of Lamello. I just don't think in year two he's going to be in a position to sort of, you know, just become this incredible heliocentric ball handling guy, right? I think he still he will still need to share those

playmaking and scoring obligations with Hayward, with Scary Terry, and the rest of the guys. That's why I think they can't withstand a Hayward injury. But, you know, if Hayward plays the whole year, which he hasn't done and God knows how long, they'll be really good. You know, I don't think there'll be like, you know, some 60 or something like that, but I think they're going to be a quality opponent where you have to play at least close to your best to beat them every single night, right?

So, yeah, I think a lot of this is hinging on Gordon Hayward. And to be honest, it should. The guy's getting paid 30 million a year. You know, like, he's getting paid like a true star. And so it should be relying upon him. I was going to say, I mean, Hayward for Hayward, I think, would have to be like an an all-star level player. And he does have to stay healthy.

But I think the other nice upgrade for them is Mason Plumley is not like the best player in the world or anything. No way. The upgrade from him from Bionbo and Cody Zelley. is pretty substantial. They're going from probably like maybe the worst centers in the league or bottom five centers to at least a pretty solid NBA level, 25, 30 minute, at night guy. Yeah, I'm somebody who's a bit of a, um, Cody Zeller-truther.

I actually think like when he's on the floor, he's generally pretty effective. I think his biggest problem is that he's never freaking available. And so when, you know, when Bismack Bianbo, uh, or. been smack beyond both. Shouts to the kid Merrill. It is like playing 30 minutes a game for you at center and the guys got hands made of stone and like basically no instincts on either end of the court. Yeah, that's a problem. But yeah, Plumley at least is going to play. And I will say that. And he won't be a complete horror show on that end. But I do think they're going to miss Cody Zeller.

Yeah, I don't think Plumley's going to hurt them. I guess the question is, did they need bigger upgrade there because you assume like, like Charks mentioned, they're going to play a little PJ Washington small ball. That's probably going to be their best lineup. But like after Plumlee, you get pretty thin pretty quickly. And then you're relying on small ball. Maybe you're relying on minutes from Kai Jones, your guy, Charks. It seems like they went as opposed to really loading up there and shoring up that position. They went the budget route and maybe kick the can down the road, maybe play through some of the young guys and develop them. And so that's my my concern. And I also think like a lot of the depth is young guys, right?

There's Ubre, there's Isthmus, uh, veteran hands who could steady what they have already, but you also have Boknight coming in there. I imagine he's going to have to play through some turnovers and whatnot. And Lamello, I mean, Lamello is another question mark. And I think this brings me back to the Hayward thing. I think Lamello is fantastic.

And I think he's particularly good when he has a lot of weapons around him. Is he the type of guy who's going to be a focal point? Is he going to be the type of guy, especially after his breakthrough rookie season, people are going to ask to do more and create more offense for himself. And like, is that really who he is? Like, I don't know.

I wonder if like the second year is when we start to heap on the expectations. I wonder if he's like the type of player who can live up to that sort of billing. I'm looking at the numbers. Like, I would, he averaged 16 last year. I don't think he gets like 20, maybe like 17 or 18. I think if like you're expecting a big lamello jump,

it's that he makes PJ and Miles a little better as a passer. So those guys are both at 13. I think they could both be at like 15 or 16. They're both playing for new contracts. And I expect both those guys to take a pretty big step forward, which be year three and year four for them. Yeah, you know, I think what in the future will make Lamello

and a crazy special player is that he becomes a scoring threat, right? It's that he hunts out mismatches on switches and he uses his huge frame. the guy's a legitimate six foot seven, right, with that level of handle. So if he's using his frame to score against little guys, beat people up, get to the line, those type of things in the future, yeah, that will make him, you know, one of the Luka's and, you know, one of the special young talents if he ever becomes an elite score, right? But for now, especially on this team with their modest expectations, you know, like playing game, Tensey, like that.

Like, if that's your goal, I think he's good enough to facilitate those outcomes because of what Jarks mentioned. As a playmaker, and you said it, Justin, they're going to be able to play in space. They're going to be incredible in transition because Lamello's already not even just with hit-aheads, but just literally pushing. You know, he's just, he's already elite at that. And they do have the wing depth with guys that, even if they're not knocked down, they're not guys you can just play around with and just leave. completely wide open. Even Kelly Ubre, who started like 6% from three last year. He even turned that thing around as the season progressed more and more.

So I think his assist total is going to be up because, you know, with the departure of Graham, he's going to have more usage, more opportunities. But yeah, I think we can chill on him, like, straight up becoming this dope store, like being like a Chris Paul year two type of guy. I don't think that's in the cards for. him, but he's going to be really good, I think. Yeah, 35% from three last year, which was way better than I think pretty much anybody, even like the optimist had for him shooting.

But I think as all of the wolves fan would tell me toward the end of last year, when Rookie of the Year was becoming a bit more of a race, he definitely fell off toward the end of last year shooting. It was only 51 games. So I think there's still an open question about what type of offensive player, like, he will ultimately become like, what's the ceiling, I guess? I guess we know he's going to do all of the, the, magic with the ball and get guys involved.

We know what he's not, Ben Simmons. And a good way or a bad way. Man, the straits are coming today. Wow. Simmons can't get out of here. But the Hornets play in, potentially playoff team, which is something that, like, I don't think we would have said at the start of last season. So mildly optimistic outlook for our guys here. All right, let's move along here.

21, the Washington Wizards. The question was, is Spencer Dinwiddie a better point guard for Bradley Beal than Russell Westbrook? Of course he is. Of course he is. Wow. Okay. And the reason why is because Bradley Beal is a pretty ball dominant two guard, right?

He's not Clay Thompson, who like takes one dribble, takes a shot, or is just catch and shoot, right? Like, this guy's initiating offense. He's initiating off a pick and roll. He pounds the rock, right? So a guy like Westbrook is not ideal. deal in those situations, especially, you know, when Bradley Bill's like, you know, he likes scoring titles. He complains when he doesn't make All-Star games. Like, we know what type of player this guy's becoming. Didn't we? I just think people who haven't really gotten a chance

to pay attention to what he did in Brooklyn, like he's so versatile from the position. He can play off the ball. When Bradley Bill's tired of pounding the rock, he can initiate offense. I just think he's a better fit next to Brad Bill because he's just more versatile in his approach. He doesn't, it's not a one-size-fits-all with him. He's a little bit more deferential. So to me, he's a better fit for sure. I'm a big Dinwiddie guy.

Yeah, that was a guy I would have loved in Dallas with Luca Dinwiddie, but they didn't really do that direction. that would have been cool. I think I'm looking at this Wizards team, and I think kind of this is the first time in the couple of years where the pieces seem to be more or less their good pieces around Beal.

So the question becomes less, how can we make this team decent to how good can you be if Beal's your best player, right? If Beal's like going to be an all-MBA first or second team guy, they should probably be a five seed. If Beal can really lift his teammates

who fit around him now, but if he's just going to, to get buckets and not really make anyone else better. I'm not sure this team is out of the playing range, where you all have him at 20. I think it's come down to how good can he be as the guy. This is probably his first year where it's his team now. No Westbrook, no wall. Do you think he can be that guy?

Because you're one of the few people who would point out, like, two years ago, that his numbers and like his approach before Westbrook were becoming more hardened nest. Like, can he fill that role where he is the center of the universe there on offense? And then everybody just kind of plays off of them. I'm a little skeptical. I think you'll have it right at 20. I'm not sure that he can get to like that four or five range. But I think the middle of the east will be pretty interesting.

There's a lot of teams who could get there. But like the racing is pretty tight for that four or five seed for the first time. Maybe like forever. Yeah. The wizards definitely have stuff, you know? Like they go like pretty much two or three deep at every position now. Like that was the benefit of the Westbrook trade, not only just getting off the contract, but like they just have capable hands like all over the place.

Like Catavia's called well pop is on this team. Montres Harris, Harry. like there's just veterans who will soak up minutes and just not be negatives on the court, which I think is a huge thing because there were a whole lot of Raulam Netto like minutes last year, like those type of guys, they were like rotating the center rotation depending on like who it was coming in. Robin Lopez all of a sudden was like Will Chamberlain with his hook shot and like he became an integral part there and now he's like the third string center on the magic or second string,

who knows. But I think I think ultimately come down to like if Beal isn't that guy and I tend to agree with sharks. Maybe he's like a notch below. he's like an all-star, but not necessarily a first-team all-MBA guy. Like, who's going to provide all the other stuff?

And I wonder if Dinwiddie can be there. I'm a little torn here. If he's healthy, man, and, you know, again, he had the partial ACL tier, which I know people are going to roll their eyes, like, it's a fucking ATL tier, but it's not as bad as the worst ATL ACL tiers can get.

If he can come back and be pretty close to the guy that he's been in Brooklyn, Brooklyn the previous two years like, look, pick and roll offense with KCP, Davis Bertans, and Bradley Bill spreading out. Like, that's a nice start to a freaking offense right there, especially with somebody like Dinwiddie, who does have the moxie and the know-how, right? Like, he does have good feel off of pick and roll.

Like that's, or vice versa, you put Brad Bill in that position with those kind of guys spreading. That's a nice foundation to start. an offense on. So I do think they're going to be able to put some buckets up. I don't know that they'll do much running in transition because I don't think they're going to stop people. They felt the way at the end of the season to actually get stops for the first time in like a decade, which was nice.

Not a thing. I shouldn't say that. Big John Wall Wizards, they used to stop people. But I'm just saying, like, it had been a long time since the Wizards weren't a complete sieve on defense, which is really how they got into the playoff mix last year down the stretch. Like they finally started stopping people. Look, I don't know that they're going to stop people

be able to play in transition, but I love the foundation of their offense. One thing interesting was you said, and you talked about Bertans and KCP spreading the floor. They played a ton of Hachamura and Denny last year, I think because, oh, we drafted these guys high. There's not high expectations. Let's develop them, whatever.

This is the year where it's like, okay, we're trying to win. Are those guys going to be able to earn roles? Are we going to like minimize our lottery picks for guys like Kuzma, a little more reliable older players? That'll be huge. And that might be this new coach. I mean, they've had five years of Scott Brooks as the coach. It'll be kind of nice to watch a different philosophy. Damn, five years. We'll see it Wes Encel Jr. is how he does is the main guy. But losing Brooks could help them as well. I mean, let's be honest. Sure. Sure. I mean, well, that's a good question.

Which of these young guys charts are you most excited about? Is it Rui? Is it Denny? And I guess we can throw in Kispert there as well. See, that's why I'm not as high in the Wizards, because I don't love, I like, I like, I like the Hornets wings a lot more than the Wizards wings. Like, I was never really huge in any of these guys. So I wonder if that's going to limit there, if they felt they have to play them. I'm not, I'm just not, big. Rui got better last year, but I'm still not big on him compared to a guy like Kuzma.

I think Kuzma's probably a better player still. You know, the thing about Rui, his rookie year, I saw him when he came to Staples a couple of times. And, you know, what I was struck by was like, even as a rookie at like 20, 21 years old, like, he looked apart. Like, he physically, he's right there. And I remember after the game, Kauai and Paul George talking about him and being like, yo, like, he's got something. He's obviously got to work at a lot of things to get better. But he has the tools to be a dude in this league.

Who knows? I don't know what his work habits are in the offseason. Who knows? But he's always been. something of intrigue to me because physically he should be able to do it defensively against any wing in the NBA, right?

As far as his quick twit stuff, moving his feet, and just the strength straight up. Like he's strong as hell. Even at a young 23, right? Like you contrast that to somebody who obviously isn't in the class of player. But like Jason Tatum, we're like,

we're still waiting on him to develop like some more strength to his build to take his game to another level where he just bullying people, right? Ruy's already there. You know, it's the other stuff that Tatum hasn't spayed, the tricks of the trade that he hasn't acquired.

Who knows if he'll be able to show that this season? Do we have any hope that Davos Bertans comes back to life? Because last year was not good. It's tough after you get a deal like that. It's like, now I can breathe again. I don't know. Maybe he'll come back, you know,

more inspired. And it might come with a new coach, like John said, with new principles, new philosophies about how they want to use the guy. I think shoot is shoot. I don't think he can be like, there's sort of a baseline level of competence that you're going to get from the guy because he's such a dangerous shooter. Yeah, for him, it's hard because he really does absolutely nothing else. So he has to be like literally the best shooter in the league.

Because he doesn't feel like is 5%, 10% worse at shooting. There's nothing else to compensate. It's just it's all or nothing with him in terms of what he's producing. Incredible contract year. For sure. Who's his agent? That guy's, I don't know.

But he just made generational wealth off of one season of shooting, which I believe was the season that got cut before COVID. Oh, yeah. He was like, I'm not going back to the bubble. For what? Yeah, my numbers are so high. I'm not going to do that mess up my numbers. That was really smart.

54 games of 42% shooting from 3. I mean, if they get that again, that's incredible, but I guess we'll see what happens. I mean, I guess we should talk briefly about Beal. I mean, I really don't know what to say about this anymore. It really comes down to personal choice with him because everything for the past couple years has been pointing him out the door. Like, Charks, do you have any sense of like the Beal situation? Like, if you were him, would you be asking out? Or is there any reason why he should stay?

I guess is the better question. I think this is the one spot where everything he wants gets done, right? If he gets traded somewhere else, he has to share responsibility again with another star. If he stays here, he's the man. Whatever he wants kind of happen, especially with a new coach.

So I think in his mind, it's like I'm a top five, top 10 player. If I'm the franchise, we'll be pretty competitive. And now he just got to produce the results if that's going to back it up. Doesn't have to get vaccinated? Yeah.

I think one thing that, we've learned in the last few years about Bradley Beal is he's he's a different kind of guy. He's a different dude. I don't think he's moved by the typical stuff that NBA stars of his caliber are moved and driven by. So, you know, whereas it seemed like a no brain, it's like, well, you've been wasting away languishing on this team. Incompetent ownership, management, horrible.

wouldn't you just be in a hurry to get out of town? That's proven to not be the case. He's proven to have told he did the extension, which everybody was like, huh? What was that for? Why do you do that? And then, you know, even as the extension is winding down, he's not telling him to move him.

He's like, just straight up like, I'm fine being there. And, you know, he has some other quirks that we don't need to get into. But like, yeah, it's obvious that he's just a different type of dude. and he's completely fine with the circumstances in D.C. I think worth like remembering. So Dame is 31. Beal is only 27. They're often kind of seen.

Beal's gotten more time to kind of be the guy. I think in four years, if they've not really won a lot, then we're talking about I want to win now in my early 30s. He's just now 27. He's still, he came into the league so young, but even though he's year nine, he's still a fairly young guy. Yeah.

I mean, he seems like a pretty, clear case of someone who could be following this trend. I think that's getting a little momentum here of guys signing the extensions with the team that they're currently on and then eventually asking out, although I guess the past couple of years might say that he's the opposite where he's just like decided to stay. So I don't know. There's still a big or extension that could get potentially really big if he makes all NBA, not this coming off season, but the following off season. So he's going to be there a while. He kind of strikes me as someone who like, like their partner convinced them to move to the burbs and then like he realized how much extra money he has and

he's just like oh i could i could do this you know like i couldn't afford a bmw in l-a-i but like i'll just drive around and just kind of be just talking about himself right now he's just he's dreaming of the l-a-subberts in a g-wagon there is that is that what's in in the cards for you listen i wish i could move to the burbs man i would i would love to uh pay some lower property tax out in like portland or something right now. So we'll see. We'll see. All right, let's move along here. Number 20, a team that has been much discussed and unfortunately, Media Day was no different because we found out that our friend Zion Williamson has a broken foot or at least a broken bone in his foot that happened, I think two months ago. It was a pretty vague comment made by David Griffin at Media Day.

he said that he suffered the foot fracture before Summer League, but I'm still not clear on when he actually had surgery. And this is a long way of saying, basically, that the Pelicans might not have Zion to start the season. It's a little unclear. Typically, according to industry close, the type of foot fracture that he had takes six to eight weeks or eight to ten, most likely.

Players who have it have surgery in the offseason, typically miss an average of 15 games, but some are available for opening night. But obviously the season is a little bit more accelerated this offseason. And so we'll see with Zion, I guess is a long way of saying that. Was, the Pelicans survive considering the offseason that they had a couple of days, weeks, maybe even longer without Zion and still have a chance to make the playoffs this year? It seems unlikely, mainly because it's not as if Zion,

is going to come back as this radically different player than he was last year. He's clearly been rehabbing this foot. How much work could he have put in towards becoming a better guy for the season with a broken foot to heal? That seems out of the cards. And I'm sorry, they weren't this juggernaut with the guy last year. I don't think the roster's improvement to such a degree that they're just going to be so great now. I don't like the roster and the clunky fits of it. And I hate the juju around the team.

You know, I think I've said enough about what I think about the offseason that they had. But I just don't like the vibes in the field. Like, you know, that Nola.com story that came out last week that I had to pay a dollar to read. It was, you know. It's a poor local journalism. You know, I did my part in six months. They said a dollar a month. I said, I'll get you $6.

I'll get you that. You can expense that. But yeah, I just don't, I'm not in love with the juju around the team. And, you know, we'll see. I feel like Brandon Ingram has taken steps basically every single year that he's been in the NBA. I wish he could become the sort of elite defender that his God-given talents and skills would lend itself to if he ever, like, put his mind to it. The offensive stuff has been great to watch over the years, but I think that's the stuff that takes this team to another level.

Like a guy like Brandon Ingram becoming an elite defender, both help and on the ball and just being a versatile, switchable type of guy, you know? Look, the Devonte Graham signing, we've huffed and puffed about that enough. You know, people talk about him like he's freaking Steph Curry and Dame off the dribble, and it's like, look, the guy's a decent shooter, but he wasn't some dead eye from pull-up, you know? Again, he provides a different look for them

that they didn't have with, say, and Eric Bledso, but I don't know, man, I'm just getting bad vibes from this team. Yeah, cursed, one might say. Charks, what do you think? Yeah, it's hard because the optimism, the optimistic case for New Orleans is you have to hope Zion and Ingram got much better, and then you have to hope that addition by subtraction.

They're essentially saying, we did everything so wrong last year in our moves. Now that we've gotten rid of those bad moves will be a lot better, right? Like they're hoping, because not having Bledsoe, not having Adams, not having Stan Van Gundy,

they're essentially saying, okay, that was so awful. Once we get those guys out of here, we'll be a good team again. And so then it's like, okay, now we have these two young guys. I feel like if New Orleans is going to be a top eight team, it's because Zion and Ingram both take steps forward.

And now kind of like what Was said, Zion's been hurt all summer. And now without him, it's pretty much just Ingram. Ingram's just going to have to absolutely carry them for, I guess, a month or so. Yeah. I mean, the excuse keeps changing over the past, like, couple months. And one might argue over the past couple years, where it's like, at first they get rid of the contracts of Bledsoe and Adams. And they give up picks to do it, which was weird at the time. But then they're like, oh, well, caps space.

So we got caps a. pursue someone. Then they didn't do anything with that cap space. In fact, they didn't get Lowry. They ended up paying another draft pick in order to bring back Devante Graham. And then it's like, oh, Ingram and Zion. They still have two of the young pillars of the league. They'll be fine as long as those guys improve. And now it's like, well, Zion might not be available. And the margins were already thin to getting into a play in with the West, which is going to be deep just like it is every year. And now I'm just like, if they don't have that, they're really counting on Ingram. and like,

Nikkeel and Alexander Walker and some of these younger guys to really take us that forward. And like, maybe that happens, but even if that does happen, you're just giving yourself a chance. I don't know if that necessarily ensures

that they're going to be a playoff team if all that happened. So it's a lot of just like blind hope and like a lot of lack of insurance. And I'm just like, this is tough, especially considering the stakes for both Griffin and Zion coming up

on this extension offer this offseason. And it's like, you got your lottery pick Jackson Hayes, who allegedly, you believe in, but you bring in Jonas Valanchunus, Willie Ernan Gomez, like those guys are better than him and should be playing over him, right?

So it's like, I just don't understand. They just feel so rudderless. Like, God bless Garrett Temple, but he's 35 now. I like Tomas Satteransky, but like, these are your saviors? It's tough, man. It's just tough. And the Zion foot thing just takes this

to a whole other level of panic for me where it's just like, what is going on here? Also, it's a foot for a giant human. It's crazy. And also, Varian, we talked about this when the news of Griff and Zion not seeing eye to eye all the time

first came out, I was like, if I'm New Orleans, why am I making panic moves for a kid who's always hurt? If I offer you to max extension, bro, you better run and grab that thing. Are you out of you'd be crazy not to do that. To play on a qualifying offer with that body, you know?

So it's like the way they've played the panic game with this kid, and he's still constantly hurt, and he's still never done a single thing for the franchise. You know, it's interesting, man. It's really interesting what's going on over there. And I would not be surprised if Griffin is gone next season. like that would not shock me if he's out. So if I'm him and it's a trade deadline

and I have all those like first round picks down the road, I might just go ahead and turn those in. Like if you're a GM and you trade Drew Holiday for nothing but picks, that's a tough move because you've really hurt your team and got nothing but quote unquote future assets for. Like if I'm Griffin and the deadline, if I have to package two or three first round picks for a player, I'm probably going to do it.

Griff Krause, you mean? See, he was referred to in that story. Yeah, I mean, In a sick way, I wonder if this actually helps them keep Zion. Because to Waz's point, if he keeps getting injured, he's more likely to accept as much money on the table, as much long-term money on the table, and then he's going to figure it out later, right? And so, I don't know, man. But at the same time, it just locks you in to the wonders of his body and him, like, exploring

what he can and can't do. And, like, I think it's an open question now, considering this is what is third or fourth major injury? and he's only played like a full seasons, one full season's worth of games over two years. Like, this is really tough. Like, it's a foot for a large man. And I got to say, not to fat shame anyone, he was looking particularly meaty on that day as in New Orleans. Yeah. They were photoshopping them in the mechanics uniform on the internet.

I was just like, okay, this is, this is not ideal. This is not ideal. Yeah. It's tough, man. I think Waz is right, man. There's something with this franchise that nothing seems to go well for them. Yeah. And look, everybody was really happy when they brought Griff aboard, right?

It's like, all right, you got a real basketball guy in there. It seemed like the owner was giving him autonomy to make all the right decisions because God knows the Benson's don't give a damn about that team anyway, you know. And so they let Griff go in there and do his thing. He got a great haul for Anthony Davis or as great as could be reasonably expected considering the leverage that Davis and Clutch had. And they, you know, they win the lottery. They get Zionists.

Like, wow, this New Orleans thing is going to happen. And, you know, ever since they came into that season, Zion's rookie year, everybody was convinced that there was some like borderline playoff team. And I was like, why? Like, they kind of put this two tracks sort of philosophy from the beginning, like, oh, we're rebuilding, but we're also playing for now, which I think is always kind of a mistake to do, right?

Unless, like, you know, you have a surprise like Boston did that year was like, man, our young guys are already really freaking good. We, you know, we went pretty far in a terrible Eastern conference. But whatever, like, it happened. The proof was there. Like, they actually achieved those things. And they said, you know what? Our young guys are kind of ready. Let's go out and do some things and make that a thing.

New Orleans did that without any of the proof. Right? Like, they didn't even, they didn't go full rebrand. They were like, oh, no, we're going to be a real team right away, even though our best players are super young guys. And it's just been a mess. It's just seen super rudderless. So we'll see. Yeah.

And I think, too, if the Griffin era like dens up bad, I would say the Drew Holiday trade, like turning an All Star into two actively bad players and Adams and Bledsoe, this is hard to come back from that. That's just, that's just an epically bad move. If those first-on picks don't come in at some point. Yeah, I mean, I think that's where you go back to ownership. there. I think anyone who was going to get that job, but Griff did sell them on this idea that they could rebuild, but still be competitive because that's what they still want in order to gain traction in that market. Like, anything you heard from him from the moment they got Zion was, oh, we could still be competitive, we could still be competitive. And maybe that was for an audience

of one. Maybe that was for Gail Benson, the owner to hear. And like, realistically, he knew it was going to take time. But like, you're right. I mean, it got to the point where he really had to make good on what he's been saying. like this is the season and all of a sudden it's it's it's it's getting pretty tough to do both and I don't know if they're ever going to satisfy that so we'll see here let's move along here number 19 the Toronto Raptors a team that I have been particularly high on my friends was and Rob have not um I think because I look at this roster and I just see a lot of competence I just see a lot of quality players like I know they're younger than they have been in a very

long time. But it just seems like there's too much here. Institutional knowledge. Nick Nurse, former coach of the year, for them to be particularly bad. And so I had them pretty high here. I had them as high as 15. Both Rob and Waz have them at 22nd. The big question, I think, Charks, and I'm curious what you think here,

Pascal Seacum, now being talked about as the guy there, he's definitely making the media tour in which he is saying he is the guy. do you think his fate is ultimately as an all-MBA player, an all-star player, or neither? It's interesting. I remember I saw your question, and it's kind of like, it depends who his peers are. So I think Julius Randall is a good instructive comparison. If Pascal's going to reach those levels, he has to be better than Julius Randall. And he wasn't last year, obviously.

I think coming into the season, no one would have said Randall is better than him. and they kind of need Pascal to play, like, to be as good as Julius Randall, I'm not sure. I'm not sure that he can. Like, maybe he's better as a second or third guy than being the primary. All-Star is, like, you know, to me, when I think of, is he an all-star? I'm like, well, is DeAngelo Russell? You know, that's what I think when I hear, is he an all-star?

So in that sense, yeah, he could probably sneak into an all-star game as a reserve, you know, at some point or injury alternate, I should say. But is he all-N-BA? No, I don't think so. And I think for Siakum, what it comes down to is like, what's his jump shot like? There's been a couple of seasons where he's come out like gangbusters from three. And then as the season progressed, it's just gotten worse and worse and worse. If he's making his above-the-break threes, he's shown an aptitude to make corner three.

He's at a decent clip. But if he's making his above-the-break threes, that opens up everything else from those unorthodox drives to the rim. Obviously, he's one of the best transition players in the NBA when he gets going downhill. To me, it's all about his jumper. That's what's going to be. And that was the case for Julius Randall, who you guys brought up. It's not that, you know, he was making jumpers at a level that is close to like Dirk or Prime Lamarcus Aldridge from mid-range. But he was making a decent amount of tough shots, right?

Until it's a while. Well, yeah. Until it actually counted. And that'll get you into All-Star games. But yeah, like, you got to make shots in order to be an all-star. And who knows if Pascal's ever going to get to that level, you know, we got here that he's, he's injured. The guy's not even started in the season, which again, it's like, if you're injured in the

off season, it's tough. Yeah, torn laborum in July. He had surgery on it. So he's expected to miss the first month of the season. So I guess the case for Seacom, if he does come back. reasonably healthy and everything's fine there is that the team seems a little bit tailored more toward him being the guy and he's been talking about this a lot in the media media day he did a whole new york times q and a um where he's basically saying i wasn't comfortable

like and to a certain extent you understand that they were playing in tampa he was in the bubble apparently he didn't feel comfortable there but he was also talking about how he got the max extension from the raptors for your max which i believe he's on the second year of that already so the clock is already ticking, but, like, he just didn't feel like the organization, like, empowered him to be that guy because they were still Lowry and there's all this other stuff going on. I don't really buy that as much. Like, I don't really care as much about whether or not, like, he feels at ease making all of his money. But this year, you would argue, is set up to make him, to empower him to be the best that he can. I guess, Charks, the question is, like, do you think the guys around him can optimize him to be that guy?

Well, I mean, yeah, no Kyle Lowry. I do think they have a lot of good complimentary players with OG. I like Gary Trent. I'm a big Gary Trent fan and Van Vleet. And it's, yeah, it's like he's the guy. I think they have a good supporting cast. But if they're going to go from like the 7, 8 play in range to actually being a playoff team, it is on Pascal to maximize the supporting guys.

I'm just not sure it's going to happen. These are just, these guys are just, it's a team full of low spades, man. Like, as my man, Beaumani would say, it's just like, these guys are good players. Like, there is no bigger Fred Van Vleet fan than I am. I love what O.G. And Anobie does, right? As a wing straight, like, we call people wing stoppers when they're just like, all right, they can sometimes stay in front of people. O.G. and Anobie is a wing stopper. This guy is elite wing defender.

He's incredible. But, like, he's just a guy. you know, Fred Van Vleet is like, look, no-brainer NBA starter at Point Guard. He's a gamer. He plays super hard. I love what he brings to the table. But there's a cap on the amount of, you know, production that you're going to get out of a guy like Fred Van Vleet, who's 5'11. You know what I'm saying?

Like, they're just, I like Chris Boucher, but, like, is he some difference maker for a team that just doesn't have any stars? I like, if you put a team with like one megastar, two bona fide stars next to all of these guys, that's a championship team, right? Like, that's a team that can win the championship. But just this collection of dudes, they're a nice, they're like the Nate Robinson Bulls, right? Where Tim was like running those guys into the ground and they would make the playoffs. And they were, you know, they were beating the heat in regular season games and all of that. because they were playing balls on the wall every single game. But like, this is not like a serious team that's going to do anything to you.

To go to Waz's point, it's interesting to think about that championship team. So they've lost Kauai, Kyle Lowry, Norm Powell, Serge Abaka, and Mark Asall. And they've added since then, the added guy since that team is Gary Trent, Goran Dragach, and Boucher. Like, that's just a massive talent drop off on. Hold on, my friend. You're forgetting Ken Birch. He's better at Aaron Baines. That's, I mean, sure.

Well, they also got precious Chua in the trade for Kyle Lowry. He could potentially fill the center void if our guy, Birch doesn't make an all-star game this year. Well, Scottie Barnes, I guess, is the unknown. Right. He's a rookie, so he probably won't help too much this year. I'm curious, Charks, like, what is his upside? Because the way people talk about him,

it sounds like he is something of a Seacom type, where he's this big hustle guy who doesn't really shoot right now, but can play defense and maybe just, like, do a bunch of stuff just based off of pure activity. Is that right? I hate to do this because the Raptors have drafted so well. So I always hate to, like, go against a size young man just drafting game. But I was lower on Barnes and almost anyone,

so I'm probably not the best person. I feel like he's probably more like a Kyle Anderson guy. I might really regret that in a couple years saying that, but I'm just not a huge barn. I think he's good, but I don't see him as like a franchise changing kind of talent or anything like that. Do you see Suggs as that type of guy? Yeah, I would have definitely drafted Suggs. I would shock they didn't do that.

And Messiah's smarter than me, though, so maybe knows what he's doing. We'll see. I mean, how does this team score in the half court? Right? Like, again, I love Fred Van Ville. When he goes to the rack, every big man's like, this is getting swallowed up old. You know? And he's going to be counted upon to be a main source of.

generating offense in the half court for this team. Again, Pascal has to make jump shots in the half court for this team the matter. Like, I just, I just don't see how they get buckets. Of course, I could see how they become, you know, one of these vice grip type of defensive teams. They have a ton of defensive talent and they'll probably be able to play in the transition as a result of that. But man, it's going to be a slog offensively for this team. Yeah, I think that is their way to win here. I don't think they're going to be anything special. Like, I definitely think they're in the mix with some of the teams.

They're going to be plucky. Yes. They're going to be quite plucky. Yes. Like the Hornets, the wizards, the Raptors. We're going to talk about the Knicks and the Pacers next year. Like, all those teams seem like all the same type. Like, a couple wins here and there.

Like, that's probably what's going to decide it. I think the Raptors, though, are squarely in that mix. I don't know if they're like necessarily a tank team play for next year type of team right away. Maybe if this Yakub injury ends up being worse than we think. But like, they just have enough stuff here that I think they're going to be, as was said, quite plucky. The New York Knickerbockers. Go to New York.

Go, New York. Is that originally a Ninja Turtles thing? That's where I remember hearing it. You guys know what I'm talking about? I don't. That's right. Yeah, I was a turtles guy. You're right.

You've got that right. There we go. See? Here's my question, because they made a couple of movies. moves here, but they largely brought the guys back from last year. The gang is all back here. De Rose, Tibbs. It's all great.

New Orleans, Noel, still making enough money to get by, not enough that he thought he was going to make. Are the Knicks better than last year's team? Because they are slightly different, but I'm concerned that they're not necessarily better than the product that we left off with from the playoffs. What do you think? I think they're way better. Interesting.

I think they're way. better, but I don't think they're going to sniff a four seed, right? Like, I think the ceiling on this team is probably like a six seed-ish. Like, there's no way they're going to get home court in next year's playoffs. But I just think they're way better, right? Like, I just think the 48 minutes, the Kemba minutes, supplemented by D. Rose minutes. And then you talk about Emmanuel quickly, like, is going to be better in his minutes.

RJ Barrett should be better in his minutes. They're just better. Like all across the board at the positions that really, really matter, they've improved, right? You know, look, Alec Burke's another guy who I love, right? Those are like quality rotational guys. And I think if Kemper Walker is just moderately healthy, they are just so much better, specifically on offense and generating half-court looks. will they be able to stop people at the rates that they did last season?

I think, you know, the ways in which that they did it with, you know, people have talked about the three-point defense luck ad nauseum. I don't know that that's sort of replicable season over season. But I just think the team is much better. This is a way more legitimate team than the one I went against the Hawks where I told you I were going to get swept at losing five games. Because it's just Julius Randall, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, fade away.

Like, that's not this thing. team anymore. Well, I think you brought up the key point there is that they were a team that won on defense and they have sacrificed some of that defense in order to make an upgrade on offense. I'm just not convinced that they've taken enough of a leap offensively with Kemba and Fornier that the sacrifice on defense makes up for it. Like, I think they're going to be a worst defensive team and maybe marginally better on offense. And I don't know where that gets you. Maybe they gets you back to where you were last year, but like, I don't know. Charks, what do you think? Yeah, I think you've kind of got to run faster to stay in place.

Just because what Julius Reynolds did last year is I just don't really see him doing that again. I was never a huge, I mean, I never thought he'd be a 40% three-point shoot at any number of volume. And then I don't know, like those playoffs were so bad. That's kind of what I was expecting more over the course of the season was he'd play more like that. So to get, expect that again from Julius was probably, would have been a mistake. So they upgraded the shooting around him to ask less of him, which was small. smart, but that also hurts. It's kind of a chain reaction thing where it hurts your defense.

And so then it becomes like, how much can Kemba give them? I'm a little worried about Kemba. I mean, he's an older guy. His knees are shot. Like, it could start really declining fast. I mean, he already kind of has. He's got to be better than he was last year. Fournier's never been on a good team.

So we'll see what he does. And those guys have to produce a little bit. Or then it becomes like quickly in RJ Barrett. Can they, I think losing Mitch Robinson for a while, he's not back yet. That could hurt them. First center is really bad last year and he was out. I mean, NERLIN is okay, I guess, but it's not great center play. Well, I mean, RJ is the question here, I think.

Like, he's the big swing piece. Maybe quickly he does too, but he's the guy they're probably counting on to take a giant leap forward because this is year three now. And I kind of don't really know what to make of him. He's definitely a much better player than he was in his rookie year when he, as a sophomore, but like, is he going to be the type of guy? Perhaps we thought about him going into college? Like, can he ever be the face of the franchise type good?

because I agree. I think Randall's a good player, but I don't know if he's ever going to reach the heights that he had last season. Yeah, and you got to figure, man, like there were points last year where they just gave quickly a rookie,

the keys to the show, right? And God bless him. I enjoy watching him play. Like, I love his poise with the rock when he's operating and picking roll. I love that he's willing to fire out of picking roll off

for the dribble, like with no fear. I love what he brings to the table. But the guy, was a freaking rookie and they were letting him man the show as if he was freaking John Stockton. You know what I'm saying? Like at a certain point, that's not... He had a green light for sure. He was just, they was launching.

And again, I think they will be better for the fact that veterans, proven guys, really smart players, will now be manning the ship and quickly he can come in when he has to and flash any improvements that he's made. Yeah, RJ's definitely the biggest X factor. Because he's the only person on his team, aside from Randall, I guess, who can reasonably expect it. Or your mileage may vary on how reasonable it is, but to like make an all-star team. Right. Like Nick fans are looking at him to be like, yo, look, you're our wing all-star type of guy.

It's going to be you. You know, so we got to see what he brings to the table this year. And props to him for by the end of last season, teams knew they had the guard him. from three point range, which was not the freaking case super early on in his career. So props him for making himself into a more quality, reliable shooter. Hopefully he's still building upon that

and he'll be a threat from there this year too. Yeah, I think y'all hit on it. RJ could be, like, he's one of the big figures in the NBA this season in terms of his development. When you play for the Knicks and you're an all-star, you become a face of the league right away. So it's all on the table for him what he wants to do. Do you guys not remember that first half of the season?

when Amari signed with the Knicks. They were like playing out of everywhere. They were playing at like a seventh seed rate. But because somebody on the Knicks looks phenomenal, it was one of the biggest stories in the NBA. He was the MVP of the league based on what New York was saying. Right. Exactly.

Oh, man. Well, I mean, if they get even half a season of that Amari from RJ, like that's pretty big. I don't know. It just seems like he's better. I just haven't like, I can't remember a single moment where he's just been like, oh, yeah, he's a future All-Star. He's going to be like the face of this team type of good.

Like he kind of just like fades into the background, unfortunately. You know the thing about RJ, I think that has impressed me, it's like really subtle things. It's like when they let him initiate offense, him finding the open corner three guy on the weak side with the one-handed pass. Like, it's not like he's doing it on a possession of position. possession basis, but it's like, damn, he's got that? You know, so he's always flashing these little things where you're like, wow, like,

he could go downhill and draw contact and maybe be somebody who gets to the free throw line a ton. Like, he's shown flashes of all these small things that if he was able to pull them all together, that's a hell of a freaking player. But he's never wowed you with anything, you know? Well, RJ's kind of like Tatum and that, like, they're a game. games where he can get like five, six assists and you're, oh, yeah, he's only moving the ball. And sometimes he kind of just gets into his head. I got to get up 20 shots. So that kind of

balance for a player like that is huge. I just love talking about New York because then Waz starts using his hands more. Like, he's definitely like, he flashes back, man. He puts the Tim's on and he's giving us the port machine. I love it. You got me. You got me. All right. Let's move along here. The Pacers at 17. I got a say this team is sad as shit. Like, I feel like every time I look up, there's something going on with them. The T.J. Warren injury apparently is going to take longer, uh, it's going to be a longer recovery than he had expected. And then like, I think it was yesterday or maybe the day before

Lavert apparently is now out indefinitely with a stress fracture in his back. I did not know that that was possible. And it sounds incredibly bad. There was within the report, it was like, oh, they're hopeful that he can come back from the start of the season. which I think people just say now, like everybody is expected to come back from the start of the season, even if you, like, get your arm chopped off

in like a garbage disposal. Like, it's just like, I don't think he's going to be back from the start of the season with a stress fracture in your back. But am I missing something here, Charks? Should I be more optimistic about the Pacers than I am?

Or is this quietly becoming a stealth tank candidate? Well, I think for one, it's good to be hopeful, Justin. I should remember. I mean, it's just the first week of the training camp. be hopeful. Let's hope for the best for all these guys. This is why I need you back in my life, man.

Yeah, I mean, it's tough. I think they really needed to expect a lot from Levert and T.J. Warren. That was going to be a big part of their team. And those guys being out is just like, now what's the same group of guys you had the last couple years where they didn't really get anywhere? And now you really got to figure out the Sabonis Turner thing without those two. It's a concern. Please. Please. Subpoena's turn. Hasn worked.

Free Miles Turner. Please. Please. You know, that's a good, everyone always thinks like Sabonis needs to play without Turner, but Turner's pretty good if he could play without Subonis, maybe. That's what I wonder. I would just like to see him get a change

of environment. But back to the point that you were making Jarks, where it's like, all right, the two people that were really supposed to give this offense juice are Lavert and Warren, right? Like, that's the juice here.

All respect due to Malcolm I'm Brogden, but a bunch of DHS with him and Sabonis, and offense can't subsist on that. That's not, you know, that's not NBA offense. And I'm a Brogden guy, especially when you put in next to other high usage guys and you let him pick his spots to attack and, you know, the guy can shoot. And every now and again, he can be the guy who's initiating offense and setting people up.

I love Brogden as a complimentary piece. As the focal point of what you're doing, on the offensive end, he ain't that. And neither is Sabonis. You know, as much as he's, I remember my man, Nate Duncan spent like three days

getting killed by Indiana people when he said, Sabonis might have been the worst all-star selection of his life. I'm not quite there with Sabonis. Jamal McGlor was an all-star. Jamal McGlor was the number one. Yeah, that's the one standard for bad all-stars.

Yeah. But, like, I just don't, I don't see how the juice is supposed to come in. I know Carlisle is a genius. He is a genius at manufacturing offense. But even him, I don't see how he's supposed to overcome the loss of, you know, the two most dynamic offensive players on this roster. That's the question, right? I think you, if you were hopeful about the Pacers going into the season,

you would say maybe Carlisle sees something in this crew of pretty good veterans. Like, before the Lavert injury, I mean, Brogden, Lavert, subonis Turner. That's a good start to any starting five. And like maybe just play someone in their Justin Holiday until you get worn back into the flow of things. But now it's like, can Carlisle Charks, you know him probably better than most people, like can he make something out of chicken, let's just be honest. I wouldn't say chicken shit, but like, or perhaps lamb? Yeah. Like is Carlisle enough? Can he bring something to this team that wasn't there with

Bjorkren. The one thing that's tough is Carlisle's always been a guy who's like penetrating point guards in terms of like, quite a lot of saying about juice. He's always like to spread the floor for a guy who gets to the rim and can pass. There's not a lot of penetrating point guards on this roster, right? Like there's nobody who can like run a pick and roll, get to the rim with a lot of speed. They're a very slow, deliberate team. And that doesn't, I'm sure Kyle is a pretty flexible coach, but he loved in Dallas like the Baraya lineups, the Monti Ellis lineups. He'd get a really fast guy in space and make it work. And there's just not a lot of speed on this team.

It's a pretty slow team. He's really going to have to grind out possessions, which he can do. Yeah, without Leverton Warren playing well, there just doesn't seem to, as that kind of what was saying, there's not even so much Carlisle can do about that. Yeah. It's sad. I mean, that's why I wonder, like,

if their inevitable future for this season is just to end up in the Teng category, just like get another guy there. But I don't know, it just seems like completely against everything they do there. Like, yeah, they'll squeeze out 30 wins. They're not going to tank. They don't take. They don't take.

They don't take. This is not a tank. This is not a tank organization. Which I respect, by the way. I'm not one of these dorks who's just like, well, you know, you need the max, might as lottery balls and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, it's something to constantly being competent. Like, I think that's important.

But it's, man, this roster is confusing. Right. Well, this is a good question because we talked about a couple East teams in the mix here. The Hornets, the Wizards. the Raptors, the Knicks, Charks for you, like, who are you most excited about? Who do you think ends up at the top of the standing

amongst this group of Eastern teams? Hornets. Just because of the upside of Lamello and Hayward? Yeah, kind of we talked about it. I like Charlotte way more than the other team we just talked about. I think Charlotte's pretty good. Man, I agree that, like, the Hornets seem exciting. I just don't know if I don't think of this bunch, though.

What do you say was? Of this bunch. I think of this bunch. Because we haven't talked to we're saving Memphis for last. I really think the Knicks are the best. Like, and I know, and I know that's going to sound Homer or whatever, but I really think like so long as Kemper because even in Boston when he played last year, he didn't suck.

He just wasn't clearly the all-star player we've known him to be. Like, he was damn good. If he could be like just slightly better what he was like super hobbled in Boston last year, man, I think they're going to be better than the, like, again, Toronto, New Orleans, Washington, and Charlotte. I think they're going to be better than those guys. And another thing is, like, we know Tibbs is going to, like, play his best guys all the minutes. You know, like, their incentives are so much different.

You know, Charlotte's, like, they want to win, but, like, they understand what time it is. They got their second-year guys, their most important person on the team. Like there's an understanding of they have their eye on the prize. The Knicks, there is no eye for any prizes. Every game is game seven for these people. The Knicks have the highest floor, I think, of all of these teams. Like they're going to be competent.

Tibbs is going to grind them into dust in order to be competent. And so like there's some sense of like, I don't know, confidence you could have in that alone. So yeah, I would put the Knicks probably at the top of this tier, especially after the Pacers' injuries. I don't know, man. even like the Wizards, like there's enough there. You know you're going to get all-star level performance from Bradley Beal, right? Like, whereas like the Hornets, you're still hoping for things to happen.

That's the only difference I would make. But we should wrap this up with the last team on our list here, the Memphis Grizzlies, number 16 on the preseason group chat power rankings, sirens all over the place. Here's the question. So obviously quite the playoff performance from one Jean Moran. But it hasn't really trickled in to the full season, regular season.

I don't know if he's really broken through in the way that I think a lot of people had anticipated and expect at this point. So, Wise, what does Jha have to do this season to reach the next level in the regular season? To me, he's got to be a high free throw rate guy because, you know, people always talk about the shooting

and the shooting would be nice, right? Like shooting over 30% on three would be nice. It'd be nice if, you know, if his pull-ups were at like 33 and his catch and shoot was at like 36. Like that would be nice. But I think where he's really got to make hay is getting to the line. You know, if he's able to get to the free throw line and make that a staple of his game,

I think the threes and all of that stuff will be, will take care of itself and it won't be the end of the world. But he's got to be a guy who's consistently getting there seven, eight, nine times a game. Because that's going to give the offense, the extra efficiency that it needs. because, you know, they still don't have, like, shooting on this team. It's, like, we're going into his third. This is going to be his third season? Yeah. We're going into his third season.

It's not like they, like, have tried to maximize him with all of this shooting. But I think, you know, with Jared Jackson being a guy that's willing to fire all the time and being the center, like, that opens stuff up in such a way. And I think to me it's like, get to the line, do what you've been doing in transition. and that's who's going to take his efficiency to that next level. Yeah, to Waz's point, so Trey Young is 9.1 free throw attempts per game. Jaws at 5.9. That's a pretty big gap right there. Yeah, that's huge.

Yeah, I mean, Jod definitely has it. Like, that playoff series against Utah was incredible. 30 points, eight assists, five rebounds. Like, there are just few guys that can really do that. That was Trey Young level offensive performance. And just like, I guess my question, with him is like, is he the type of guy who needs the stage in order to play at that level? I know Jackson wasn't around for most of the season.

He got them back. So maybe things were just easier for him. But I also wonder if like with him it's just more about consistency. Maybe it's a couple of things on the fringes, it's maturity, whatever you want to call it. And he just needs to go into like most regular season games with that sort of approach. Justin, you say stage. Maybe it was playing the jazz in the playoffs, defense. Like these guys gave up 40 points to Terrence man.

and a close-out game. It's true. Their playoff D is not exactly locking people up. I mean, Morant hitting those pull-ups from, like, what, like five feet or whatever it was in front of the basket, those little, like, pop-up shots he has, those Westbrook-esque, like, little floaters.

Like, it seemed like Gobert was just flummoxed by those. Like, he couldn't imagine someone just stops and shoot before he gets to the rim. In game two, where he dropped 47, he got to the line 20 times, right? Against the Jazz. Like, that's what's going to turn him into that otherworldly player is not being afraid to draw the contact and living at the free throw line because nobody can stay in front of this kid. You know, and when you do have a pick and roll tandem partner like Jaron Jackson, that makes, it puts defenses on their heels with a guy who's willing to fire.

Janky has his jump shot looks. He's taking it at volume his whole career and he's knocked it down. So, you know, to me, that's where he gets into the next level is just living at the free throw line. But that's for a lot of these guys. That's for Donovan Mitchell as well, right? Like, that's what's going to turn you into this next level player. Although Donovan Mitchell has supplemented, you know, all right, I'm not getting to the line like Pride Prime D-Wave, but I'm making threes at a rate that D-Wade has never even sniffed, right? So he's found a way to get his efficiency to where it needs to be by jacking up three.

and making them all the time. Now let's see what Jock can do because he has to be that level of player to take this Memphis group to the next step. Yeah, and it does seem like part of it to be seen a certain way it's team success, right? Trey elevated himself

because the Hawks went to the conference finals. It does seem like Grizzlies are trying to take a step back this season. I think trading Balanchun is for Stephen Adams. That said to me, we don't really care about maximizing our wins now. That's a pretty big drop-off to get a better draft.

pick. And I could see this team taking a slight step back unless Jared Jackson really gets a go on this season. I mean, yeah, they're definitely an interesting comparison to the Pelicans for a lot of reasons, market size, the fact that they went two in that draft and Zion went one, but also because of that trade. I mean, I mean, I look at it the opposite way where it's like, is the drop off from Adams from Valanchunis all that much if you assume that Adams can stay healthy and do be closer to what he was in Oklahoma City than what he was in New Orleans.

Like, I don't know. There are like a close enough approximation and like I think picking up a higher draft picks Iyer Williams who I don't have much of an opinion on but like he seems like a younger guy who has a lot of upside. Like I think it makes more sense to take the step back and count on internal improvement with Jha and Jaron, especially with Jaron getting an obstinstably healthy season and counting on that rather than what the Pelicans are doing. Yeah, it's the anti-Pelicans.

They've gotten success unexpectedly when it was like, all right, this team's supposed to be bad. They're young. They're rebuilding. They're developing talent. They've gotten success and said, no, we're not going to get higher of our own supply. Like, we're going to stay the course and chart a path forward based around the timelines of our most important players, which are Jiamer Jackson. Like, we're charting that. We're charting a path forward based on their timelines.

based on the timeline of some moderate amount of success that we did, you know, and play in playing games and bubbles and, you know, first round flame outs against the jazz. Like, I love how they're handling their young guys, right? It is a stark difference from what's happening in Detroit. And again, it just shows you, like, you have to build on one track and not two. You can't be doing, the left hand has to know what the right hand is doing at all times, you know, so that they could wash the face, Justin. That's the saying, yeah.

Gotta watch that face with the hands. Yeah, I think for sure. I mean, one thing, if you're competing on two tracks and other teams are on one track, they have an inherent advantage because they can all push in the same direction. I would just push back on the Valanchina

Stephen Adams thing. Valchuna's averaged 17 points per game last year. Adams averts seven points per game. Like Adams is really not an offensive threat anymore unless he's like directly in the pick and roll. If he's doing anything else, he's just taking up space, basically. I think that's a huge loss for the team.

I'm not a big Adams guy. I think he's kind of running towards the end of his career at this point. Yeah. Valentuna's definitely better. Yeah, he's certainly better. I don't know, though. Like, do you need Stephen Adams to be a dynamic offensive force when you have all of these other guys? I mean, if he's going to be out there, he has to be a threat to score.

He's just kind of out there a lot of times. He's a great screen setter. Yeah, I know. I think a lot of it is also just injuries, which, like, that comes with the territory. Stephen Adams is twice. 28 years old somehow. I know. He plays like he's 35.

That's crazy. His body has broken down. I don't know. I just think the trade-off of getting a higher draft pick was worth it for a team, and I just think it's an interesting decision. I think the trade-off is for sure worth it, but it's going to have an impact this season, that drop-off. But the long term, I think, is worth it.

Okay. We shall see. All right, that's it for the second edition of the group chat preseason power rankings. Thank you to Waz and Charks for joining me. Thank you to Sasha Ashall on production. We'll be back with part three. And let me tell you, the Mavs are in this tier. We'll see you next time.