The Ringer NBA Show - New York Knicks Talk With Jerry Ferrara | Weekends With Wos

Episode Date: March 10, 2023

Wos is back, and he sits down with Jerry Ferrara, an actor on the HBO comedy series ‘Entourage’ and Starz series ‘Power,’ to talk all things New York Knicks in the midst of their 10-game winning streak, including the team's run this season and where they see the Knicks in the upcoming playoffs. Host: Wosny Lambre Guest: Jerry Ferrara Producers: Brian Waters and Jade Whaley Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you're lost in the darkness, look for the pod. Specifically, the Prestige TV podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network, where we're breaking down every new episode of HBO's The Last of Us. On Sunday nights, grab your battery and join Van Lathen and Charles Holmes for an instant reaction to the latest episode. Then head back to the QZ on Tuesdays for a deep dive with Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin. From character arcs to video game adaptation choices, story themes to needle drops, we'll parse every inch of this cordyceps-coded universe.

Watch out for mouth tendrils and follow along on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, everybody, it's Was. I just wanted to say that we recorded this episode with Jerry Ferrarra on Tuesday, March the 7th. The Knicks had not yet lost

two in a row. They were riding high in a 10-game winning streak. He actually makes reference to possibly jinxing the Nick's streak on the pod. But yeah, if enthusiasm for the Knicks seems extremely high and exuberant on the episode.

It's because we did record this on Tuesday before they lost two straight. However, the episode touches on many other things. Just wanted to let you guys understand the timing of this interview. Please enjoy my interview with Jerry Ferrar. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the latest edition of weekends. I'm your host, Big Was, aka Wazin Landre. and I'm joined by a very special, illustrious guest. You've seen him on the entourage.

You've seen him on Power. You've seen him on Think Like a Man. I mean, this guy's work is everywhere. He's just one of the goats in the business. One of the biggest Nick fans that I know, and that's saying something because I'm from New York. Jerry Ferrarra, man. Welcome to the show, Big Dog.

Wise, this is long overdue. We spoke off the air. You and I go back to like 2015. We've been talking. Yes, sir. This might be all-time high as a Nick fan. I suffered through the Chris Duhon years, so I've learned every bit of this.

No disrespect. The Jerome James signing. I was there for all of it. The Steve Francis and Stefan Marbury backcourt. I was there for all of it. Listen, man, I just want to say this before we begin, because this is the ringer. And what you guys did and accomplished on entourage is so instrumental.

So it's been woven into so much of Bill's work. Obviously, Bill being the big dog over here, it's just amazing to have you on up here to talk Knicks. But we got to get into it, man. We're recording this on a Tuesday afternoon, just so you guys know if we don't talk about the win streak being at 11 or whatever. We're recording this on a Tuesday. The Knicks are 39 and 27. They're on pace to, you know, win close to damn there 50 games. Just to be clear, the Knicks have been on a 56 win pace since December 4th, which is, it's March.

So, like, it's not that they're on a hot streak. They've been playing well for a while. They've been playing quality defense, quality offense, all in a style of play that I tell everybody is extremely fun to watch. These guys play hard. They play pretty fast. They play for each other. which is really cool. It's not like, you know,

sometimes James Hardin could be the most efficient isolation score of his generation. That doesn't mean that it's necessarily great to watch to give a counter example from the Houston years. Like, this team just has immaculate vibes. I know that's a phrase we throw around a lot these days,

but it's just true with the Knicks right now. I just want you to just get it out, Jerry. How are you feeling right now, brother? Well, it's funny, too, when we lock down that we were going to record, and I texted you like a multiple choice. I'm like, these are the best Nick vibes since it was like A, Linsanity, B, 2013, C, to the COVID year, which with no fans, or D, like 1999 finals run as an eight seed.

And for me, it goes that far back. I think that is the last time the vibes were that good. I mean, two years ago it was amazing, but, you know, there was no fans and, you know, what we really saw play out, you know, Randall had one of the best years any Knicks ever had, but you just kind of knew there's no one there to back them up, you know. So, yeah, listen, I don't even know where to begin, but all I want to say is I've just enjoying this ride way more than I enjoyed two years ago or 2013 or any of it, because it just feels real. You're watching growth in front of your eyes.

So I want to talk about that 99 team, because that was absolutely the last team that, Nick team that I've personally felt invested in living in New York at the time of that playoff run was like absolutely nothing I've ever experienced. I remember when LJ made that four point play. I was in Flatbush, Brooklyn on New Kirk Avenue. There were multiple people watching on TVs outside and there was literally people were screaming, screaming when that shot went in. So yeah, that that is a Nick thing that will be.

with me till the day that I die. And the guys, and the reason why I bring that team up, like, the guys on that team were not just very likable, but they felt cool to me. You know, Larry Johnson was like a sort of pop cultural staple with his converse commercials going back to Charlotte Days. Of course, Spreewell was the reason why I became interested in the Knicks, full stop. You know, there was the ugly incident with PJ Carlissimo that allowed him to come to New York. Alan Houston was a relatively new Nick. It just felt like a new Nick thing. They had a mediocre season.

Then, of course, make this improbable finals run, right? Marcus Camby, who was, you know, like only a few years earlier. It was the second pick in the draft. Like, this was a pedigreed bunch, and they were fun as hell. And they made it all the way to the finals. End up losing, of course, to Tim Duncan and David Robinson. But I remember that team and that feeling. And so it's ill that you would say that that's the feeling that not that these guys are going to

We don't know about to do that right now. Right. Like, but that's the feeling. Yeah, like the things don't unpack with that. And, you know,

you mentioned the ringer's own Bill Simmons. Isn't that where the Ewing theory comes from? Right. Ewing gets hurt. You know, that's the creation of the, the Ewing theory was born from that team. Yeah.

And look, that was a different, like, yeah, that was an eight seed on a, on a lockout shortened season. They were better than an eight seed. Yeah,

yeah, they were better than that. A lot of injuries that year. Right. That was free world's first year. first year, it was really hard for him to get acclimated. Because if people don't remember, they went like 50-something games the year after. They were a legitimately good-ass team.

Yes. So, and I look at that, like, Larry Johnson is one of the examples of, like, you know, got him too late, like every other star player, the Knicks of, you can go down the list of players we got. Got him too late or let him go too early. Right. And, but he, you know, one of the most famous moments ever. Spreewell really, I mean, obviously, I don't look, mellow was a trade. and I don't remember how it worked with Spreewell,

but that was another version where we got a guy at the peak of his powers and came here and it showed. So, yeah, like I said, I don't think this team's going on a finals run. Now, would I be shocked? Nothing would shock me anymore, but yes, that would be utterly shocking. But either way, you know, for all my, I'm in a million Knicks threads and chats and all that. I can only imagine.

And the amount of heat that Leon Roe, I'm like a Leon Rose defender before this, which I hate to be. I don't ever want to, like, defend the organization. That's not who I am. You don't want to defend the man. Right. But I always just look at it. Like, look, I understand

the Mitchell thing, we could debate that. And look, we might very well see that play out in real time in round one. That could be a, who won the early part of that Donovan Mitchell saga in round one if the Knicks play the Cavs. But either way, I think it was more about not making

the awful move, not bringing the player for giving up all our assets for the player who maybe he's like a little unsure of where he is in his career. That's how it's the Leon Rose era has been for me. Not making the awful Phil Jackson type of mistakes via the draft and free agency. Look, hasn't been perfect? No.

Isaiah Thomas type of mistake. You know, he's made some mistakes, but what GM hasn't, but if you look at at least what he's done through the draft, you got to applaud Leon Rose so far. Not trying to, I mean, you got to applaud the players. But he hasn't made the terrible front office mistake. I want to talk about the surprises. You talk about surprises from this team. Because, again, like, the reason we're having you on, of course, the streak is fun.

We all love a good streak. But like I mentioned, they've been playing well since December, right? So this is three months and change of fantastic Nick basketball. I think the most surprising thing about that, especially with this group, is how effective they've been as an offensive team. They've been in and around the top 10 basically all season long, and they don't make threes like that. They're an average to below average three-point shooting team. However, you know, offensive, great offensive basketball doesn't just comprise of three-point shooting. They're incredible at getting to the line.

They never turned the ball over. And my favorite thing about this team, they're mauling the hell out of people on the offensive board. which to me is like the most demoralizing of all of that. You finally get a stop and then, you know, dudes are just their armpits are all up in your nose and bullying you for layups on the offensive glass. And so, like, I'm surprised at how effective the offense has been. And obviously, I think we know the two guys we can keep for that.

Yeah, and look, I had a lot of fun two years ago. That Randall year was amazing, but you kind of knew, all right, when this gets down to the playoffs, who else is going to create a shot? You know they're going to key on him, and he went cold at the wrong time. Like, it just happened. He was hitting all his shots,

pretty much the whole year, and it went cold toward the end of the season to carry. His fade away 19-footers didn't work in the playoffs, as they generally don't for most people. Everyone has taken a leap. Like, the players I'm most obviously impressed with, we could talk about quickly forever. You kind of saw it coming with him.

He had a good rookie year. Then last year, everyone took a step back. But another guy I'm really excited about, and I've been like hard on him and all my next group chats is like Mitchell Robinson because he's always getting hurt. He's always in foul trouble. And he went on the court now. Yeah, he's really been such a difference in playing so disciplined. But has there ever been a more Nixie player than Josh Hart? Is Josh Hart not like a guard version of like a Mason Oakley?

Like if they had a baby, it would be Josh Hart as a guard. He is the guard version of. Charles Smith. He is Derek Harper personified. He is all of those things. He's, he's Greg Anthony. He is all of these quintessential legendary New York Knicks role plays. Legendary in New York City anyway for just the toughness and the grit. Like, nobody could tell me what like Derek Harper was incredible at, right? Ask Jojo English about Derek Harper. All right? Ask Jojo English about Derek Harper. And people remember his contributions for the team because I think it's a mindset and an attitude that this guy brought. And, you know, I think people like Hart and Mitchell Robinson are Tibbs guys, right?

But, you know, Jalen Brunson, it's just... We got to get to that. It's just crazy. Like, somebody said to me that Jalen Brunson might be the best free agent to change teams since Kauai Leonard. Like because all of the last few All-Star level guys to change have been on these trade demands or to blow the team up or whatever the case may be. Jalen Brunson has just been incredible. I talk about the Knicks' offense.

They are one of the best teams in half court in the NBA, which I did not think was possible. No, and he's a big reason for that. 100%. I just, I did not understand everyone when that's scientific. went down of like, oh, so much money for the 20th best point guard league. Is everyone watching the same game? Now, if you watched him in Villanova, like I did, he was a winner and a floor general.

And what he did against Utah, I think it was that game six that Luca was out to force the game seven or maybe I got it twisted. Whatever he dropped was the first two games too. The first two game, like he just was, like right then and there, it's like playoff proven. This guy was coming off the bench. still being a major asset and closing games. I just didn't think that, like, if you're the Knicks, how you could even be questioning that move?

We haven't had a point guard since, do we even know? When, no, I can't even try. Right, and what was that for 12 games? That was 12 games of a point guard. And then he sat the playoffs, Insanity, because he was going to get paid. So, you know, you mentioned the half-court offense. Look, at times it certainly is ugly.

Tibbs definitely does not call great offensive sets. it is a lot of ISO ball, which is the league, right? It's a lot. We see that all over. But now it's Randall, it's Brunson. They're great ISO scorers quickly in that Celtics game from the first minute set a tempo that I don't think anyone was ready for. So there's just a lot of options now.

There's, it's not like Randall has to score 35 for you to win. I always say like a good team is a team that could win a game with their B game. And what we saw in that Celtic game and even in that heat game, that was both of those teams B games. So I'm like, shit, this is where it's going to happen. We're going to lose to better teams with their B game. And no, we held up. And I think the Knicks have won a lot of games with their B game this year,

not even playing as well as they could. But that's the sign of a good team. Yeah. And here's the thing about Jalen Brunson, why I think he's a borderline all-MBA guy, even if he didn't make the All-Star team, because he's played damn near every single game this year. Just to throw out some numbers, He's averaging 28 points per game on 50, 40, 83% from the line.

And he's in the mid-40s from 3, all right? 83% from the line. This is the last two months and change. Okay, damn there 30 on insanely great efficiency. Like, that is a great player. There's no two ways about it. I think even with Julius Randall, like we talk about some of the isolation stuff that ends up happening with this particular Knicks group.

Even he's better than he was. Making quicker decisions, whether it be to either shoot it, put it up, quicker instead of dribble, dribble, dribble, or, you know, and I want to give a big shout out to my man, Fred Katz, over at The Athletic. He wrote a piece about how he's better with the double teams. He's beating the double team with the past now, which is not something you could say about this dude previous times in his career. And again, people who listen to this show, listen to Group Chat, know that I've been a Julius Randall skeptic from Genesis.

Yes. I have been. This is the book of Genesis. But you got to give credit where it's due. He's playing incredibly well. He deserved his All-Star bid, if not the three-point contest. But I got to say, like, he's made measurable improvements. And, you know, the Jalen Brunson thing, like, I'm sorry if you watch what he did straight up head up against Donovan Mitchell.

Yeah. The guy who they were trying to trade for last year in the playoffs, the most consequential of situations and moments. He was his equal oftentimes, you know. And a lot of times he was better than him, just straight up cooking this guy in the playoffs. And so, you know, I have nothing but the utmost respect. I was positive on the trade. I'm like, this guy's clearly going to be worth the money. It's not a value deal.

Right. Right. And now he's underpaid. But he's not. He is by no means an overplayed. He was never going to be overpaid at $26 million per year. That's absurd. That's ridiculous.

Right. And the position the organization hasn't had in since I can remember. But we do got to talk about some of the young guys, man. Well, yeah, because I can throw some cold water on this conversation real quick. Yeah, go ahead. Do it, please. I'm with you on everything. Now, I think we could say, Randall,

I know, we have to see it in the playoffs, God willing, you know, but Randall is someone we can count on, Brunson's someone we can count on. Yeah. The guy I'm looking at now, it's just like, look, and I'm a fan. I've been in from the beginning, but the guy I'm looking at who is the most inconsistent player on the team,

who when he's, when the shots on and he's engaged on defense, it's another level that this team could be. if they want to get to the second round and even threaten maybe in the second round, we need more consistency at a R.J. Barrett. And that's just how it goes. Because he's just the most inconsistent player on the team. When it's good, it's great.

And when it's bad, we're going to see a lot of Josh Hart closing minutes, I think. Yeah, and I think in the last few games, you've seen that. His minutes are a bit down. It's not like he's not playing. He's still playing about 30 minutes a game. It's just he's not been in the closing lineup.

It's been EQ. It's been Josh Hart. Of course, it's been J.L. Brunson. And, you know, I'm a bit of an R.J. Barrett apologist. I'm actually, I remain super high on his gifts and his ability to improve upon what he's shown. But, yeah, the consistency has got to get better. And I think having a wing, or, you know, for lack of a better term, a guy who's six, six and up, who handles the ball and scores a fit.

efficiently on the ball is the most valuable commodity in the league. And because he's the only person on the team that fits that profile as far as both physically and his potential, I understand the tendency to look at him and be like, when are you going to be our guy, right, that does that? And he hasn't delivered that on a consistent basis. I just had, I'm just somebody who's never going to be completely down or off of RJ because I've seen him. even if he hasn't delivered it as consistently as I've liked, play great perimeter defense. I'm good to great.

I shouldn't say great. Good to great perimeter defense. I've seen him be pretty decent on pick and roll as the primary ball handler. I've seen him get downhill and draw contact, draw fouls. All of these things you want to see from your wing player, I've seen him do if not as consistently as I would like. But again, I'm not somebody who's like, I'll give you a counter example to this, Jerry.

I remember like year three of the Ben Simmons situation. I was like, this ain't going to happen. I've been saying it. I knew I was right. I was just like, he just like, he doesn't show improvements upon the things that they're going to need him to improve upon in his game in order for them to take that next step, right? Like, I was out on him for so long, right? And I'm just saying that.

I'm not just saying that because I'm right. I'm just as an example of somebody that I stayed on was him. Somebody who I stayed on in the RJ way for similar reasons is my man, De Aaron Fox. I always want to call him DeAnthony. Similarly, somebody who had, you know, shown signs and flash potential. I remember watching him Swiss cheese the Clippers. The first year, Kauai and Paul George came together. And that was De Aaron Fox.

and people would be like, is he ever going to figure out in the clutch? Is this shot ever going to be consistent? We get that he's really fast and sometimes he gets down here. When is he going to be a quality half court player? All of these things and he's showing this now. I think a lot of times these guys don't reach it, but I think there are times that patience can be rewarded with these young guys. And I happen to think RJ is one of those guys.

I don't think he's going to be maybe as good or as consistent. Instantly delivering in clutch situations, one-on-one is Deerrin Fox's this year. But I think similar, I bring Fox up because similarly to him, I think we need to give him the benefit of the doubt that he can put this thing together. Yeah, you know, the Fox call is so interesting

because he was like, wasn't he on the market or we thought he was on the market? Of course. Are they going to keep him or Halliburton? They can't really play together. At the time of the Halliburton trade, a lot of people, smart people whose opinion, eye values like, man,

they traded the wrong dude. listen, I know a lot of people have said the same thing. And now, look, what happened? They're both great players. And they're both fitting in really well with those teams. Yeah, I'm with you on the RJ. I feel like RJ is the most polarizing Nick in the sense. I mean, you could say it's Randall when like last year,

but RJ is the most polarizing when it comes to, like you said, when's this guy going to do it consistently all that stuff? But I brought him up to say I'm looking at him because I do think for me, hopefully they stay the course where they are and they are a four or a five seed that would be thrilling. I'll take six or seven. I just get it, get in.

Just get it. Stay out of the play in, be in the playoffs. I think to have any sort of playoff success, we need to see the good version of RJ. And I know that's like a simple thing to say, but I mean, I think we could really shock some people

if it's the good version of RJ. Yeah. And look, and again, hold on, Before we, because I don't want to get negative Nancy because I want to say that. But what's, where are you with Thibado? Because again, when the Knicks were struggling to start the season and at moments, I'm just like, God, this is so dry and so stale. And they need to figure out a way to get Randall out of there to let my man Obie Topping do his thing, too.

You know, because I'm a big OB guy too. I just love all of the Knicks young guys. I love Grimes. I like quickly. I love Obie. Like, I'm just in the tank for all of their young guys. But I was just like, look, Tibbs is going to play grown men at every single turn. That's just what he is.

That's why he refuses to stop signing Todd Gibson's to whatever team he's coaching. Like, he's going to, he has a pattern. He's been consistent. We know what he's going to do. He's not going to allow this team to embrace some youth movement and let the young guys sort of find themselves. And Randall, if he's on the team, he's too good not to play, right? And so they need to find a way to get rid of them. I put Randall and Timbs.

To me, they were married as far as what was ailing the Knicks, in my opinion, early on in the season and keeping them back. Where are you at with Tibbs nowadays, man? Listen, I mean, we're talking about a coach who, after, you know, last year was not playing Emanuel quickly and was playing Alec Burks at point guard. Now, I think Alex Burks has been the most mistreated player. Quickly 50 straight minutes in a game. That was my tweet.

Like right after that game, you know, you can't say Tibbs doesn't play the young guys. And to Emmanuel Quickly's credit, wasn't even sweating in the post-game conference. Like, he could have played Lord. But I'm like,

this guy, he's going to kill this guy. But, yeah, last year in crunch time, I think Berks was the most disrespected player. Like, if I'm his agent, I'm,

I'm, like, we got to get Alec Berks another contract for what the Knicks did to him last year. But yeah, it's super frustrating. I get concerned with the offense because it is a lot of Randall and now Brunson bailing them out of some really ugly possessions. Offensively, I still worry.

Even though all the numbers back up that they are an efficient, good offensive team. Yeah. You know, two guys are having career years, I guess. So, you know, that's what I worry about most in the playoffs. Look, I was terrified with what was going on with Tibbs, but I give him a lot of credit because the balls it took for him, who D. Rose is also his guy. And to say,

Derek, you're just a team leader. Not just. I mean, you are a very valuable team leader. We're going to play Miles McBride. Heavy minutes and shorten the rotation down to eight people when Obie was hurt. And the things he did with Jericho Sims, when Hartinstein was starting to, he was a little out of sorts.

He really like basically grabbed his balls and said, I'm going down in the blaze of glory. This is my last year. I'm going to, I'm just, I'm doing everything I need to do. I'm a Jericho Sims guy too, by the way. Me too. I mean, you know, don't contest aside.

I love that. I love that. I love that dude. Another great pick potentially. But yeah, like he made a lot of balls he calls right around, like you said, they've been playing great since December. This is like right around November when he shortened the rotation. And he unlocked quickly and he turned it over to people like McBride.

And then we finally got a healthy Grimes. Grimes' start of the year was bad. He was just hurt and couldn't find his rhythm. Look, I was in Las Vegas for Summer League where he was essentially Michael Jordan. And so I was like, I'm sorry. Quentin Grimes is like a real freaking NBA player. And you want to see the second year guys

dominate in Summer League. It's a great indication of the kind of guys they are. And I was like, yo, this dude is clearly a high-level rotation piece. I don't know that he's your savior at two guard or whatever. I'm not saying all of that, but watching him play, he's clearly a rotational guy.

And, you know, he's shown it this year, in my opinion. Yeah, he's even made plays off the bounce, which I was most, like, curious about. Yeah. Like, the jumper is pure, especially from the corner. And that's where he's going to make his money, right?

Quentin Grimes, he's going to make a lot of money by shooting, you know, 40-something percent from corner three and being a really good defender. But off the bounce, he's show, like, he's the, only one really that hits Mitchell Robinson on like the back door when the rotation's late.

I still think the Knicks, and you mentioned Obie, let's get to Obie in a minute. I still think the most missed person on backdoor lobs is Obie Toppin. It's there. I know like RJ tries to throw it, quickly throws it really well. I think it's there all day. It was there. I noticed it in the Hawk series, not that anything was going well, but I was screed. And Obie had a great series.

Only player maybe that had a great series. So I do wish that, like, it does feel like Tibbs doesn't quite know how to, I just don't like seeing Obie stand a three point line catch and shoot. But I just don't think that's his, that's him. It's crazy because I'm in the tank for OB Top. And even though the things that we know to be important for a guy with his profile, i.e. defends a position well. Right. Right. Not multiple, like, defend one position well, you know, so we have a guy we can throw you on. in every single lineup.

He doesn't do that. His three-point shot, because he's not some one-on-one force, he needs a semi, at least semi-consistent three-point shot, which just, it comes, it goes. I admire his willingness to take it. For me, I don't know,

I just love his activity. I love that he vertically spaces, even though people miss him on the lob every single time. All the time. And yeah, he's just an incredible transition player. I just really, I'm still enamored of,

Obie Topman, I hope that we can find a way for him to get a minutes on a Tibbs team and he can develop into the type of quality, you know, NBA player. Because again, in order to play the four or the five in, you know, or the five in small man units, again, defensively, it can't just, like, this guy can't be your backstop. Like, he just, he just can't. It's not what he does. And so it's, it's hard for him to find minutes. I think Josh, Hart will be good for Oby pushing the ball. That's where I think that he, that lob in that Celtics game where the ball didn't touch the floor basically was beautiful. And I think that's the skill set. You know, and I think Hart, who's really good in transition, I think will help Obey. Just let them get out.

And yeah, I'm with you. I love Obey. And I think, I'm worried that Oby, you know, he got drafted almost as like Randall Insurance, right? Like, this is if Randall's short stint in New York, we have the next point. point guard and waiting, I'm worried they're going to have to get off him at some point, and he'll go to Sacramento or Orlando or Charlotte and just ball out. That's my fear with Obi. Get off the bench and bet the NBA with Fandul, America's number one sports book. Because right now, Fandul is giving new customers 10 times your first bet and bonus bets. It doesn't matter if your first bet is an air ball.

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Yeah, so I want to get out of here by talking about the playoffs, of course, course because, you know, we got to talk playoffs. We got to talk Nick's future because I think the results from the playoffs are going to shade how people feel about the team going forward, right? Right now, they're the fifth seed. They're only a game and a half behind Phoenix, but they're four games behind the Sixers who had three. The nets are only two games behind them, but we all know the nets are trending downward and whatever. There's no shame. I like what they did in the after in the aftermath of the debacle, the heat are four games behind the Knicks.

So it feels like they're going to be locked into a four or five matchup with the Cavs. They might be able to get home court, but either way they're going to play the Cavs. And I have a hard time believing that they'll, that game, that series will go more than five games. Honestly, my pick would be the Cavs in five. Whoa. Yeah, definitely.

Okay, let's unpack that for a second. Yeah, yeah, the Cabs and five. On what? Based on the Cavs just have... Donovan Mitchell's playoff success? Okay, that's not what I was going to say. The young, like Jared Allen and Mowbron being great, but younger than even some of the Knicks young guys?

What is that based on? The Cavs have two elite, elite defensive players in their front court. So I don't think they're going to have a hard time dealing with what Randall presents. I don't think they're going to have a hard time dealing with what the Nick present in that capacity. And I think in the half court between what Garland can do in pick and roll, we know he is an elite pick and roll initiator. I love God.

One of my favorite players to watch. He's in my top five favorite players to watch right now. Yeah, same. He's amazing. And Donovan Mitchell has been proven to be a capable playoff performer score. And he's not going to be asked. Because back in the days in Utah, this was the thing that when we talk about the Mitchell trade, the fit is just way better.

Cleveland. Agree. Getting Rudy Gold, people like Rudy Gil bear the ball was his job, but he was

never good at it. Okay? And they have Garland to do that. And then his defensive shortcomings can be masked by the two

great big men. Like, they just have the pieces in place to mask Donovan Mitchell's weaknesses. And I think overall, they're just more

top heavy. This is a much better team than the Knicks in my opinion. That's just my opinion. You know, we've been to like,

buddy, buddy on the same page this whole time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't even necessarily have a hard time of what you said with the Cavs winning that series. What I have a hard time with is five games or less. Five. I think for one second. I think it'd be five games.

I think they win a game at home and then that's it. They'd win one in the garden. I know you can't talk like regular season is regular season. Nix have matched up very well. Easily should be three and O versus the Cavs this year. They're two and one. They should be three and oh. So you like the Cavs match up for the Nix is what you're saying.

I like it better than, look, here's who I don't, I don't want to play Milwaukee, I don't want to play Philly. I would take my chances with Boston or the Cavs. I don't want, honestly, I'd rather play the cabs than the heat. Wow, okay. Because look what the heat did in that game a few games back, right? That's why I was impressed with that win, even though Julius Randall hit a lucky three, I get it.

But the Knicks wire to wire were in control of that game. And Spow was throwing a playoff type defense at the Knicks, doubling Brunson and Randall five feet past the three-point line making them give the ball up in the Knicks found ways. But let's go back to your Cavs. My cat's. I'm in Cleveland. I married a girl from Cleveland, okay?

Let the record show. That's my team-in-law. I call them my team-in-law, the Cleveland Cavaliers. I would certainly say the Cavs will be the favorites, but I just don't see the match. Who's coming off that Cavs bench?

And I get playoffs. The bench is shortened in the playoffs. I get it. completely and you could stagger it maybe so either Mitchell Garland's always on the floor but that's not the deepest team in the league and I think that's where yeah maybe they have an advantage with the starters but I think what the Knicks could bring second unit wise could absolutely destroy what the Cavs are throwing second unit wise yeah I hear you I just I just don't think this is going to be great shakes because even like even the stuff like the offensive rebounds

the getting to the like offensive rebounds, getting to the free throw line consistently, I don't think they're going to be able to do that. You mean the Knicks won't be able to do that? Yes, against the Cavs consistently in a playoff series and we know they can't shoot. And so like the thing, some of the things that they are excelling at

that's propping up the efficiency of their offense, I think will be mitigated greatly in a series against Cleveland. And so therefore, I really do think they would use that in five. You think Alan and Mobley just control the boards, even though one of the best rebounders in the league is on the Knicks who is a better rebounder

than both those guys. Absolutely. And Randall's one of the better rebounders in the NBA. So you don't think it's like a wash on the boards, really? You think that it's almost advantage calves? It's not advantage calves. It's like if you're not winning the offensive rebound battle, not that it's coming to a draw.

And you don't think that they could. You think there's zero chance that the Knicks can. win an offensive rebound battle against Allen and Mobley. I would bet that they didn't have some significant offensive rebound advantage in that series and therefore one of the best ways for them to score would be taken away. I don't think they're going to live at the free throw line because people don't notice, but Knicks get to the free throw line at the top 10 rate right now.

Yeah. I don't think they're going to live at the free throw line. And so therefore, like, and they're not going to shoot it. You know, the Brunson's going to get the calls, but is Mitchell going to get the calls? Listen, I don't think so. I really don't think so. I don't see it for them. I would book that bet.

That one's going seven. I think it no matter what, that's going seven. Wow. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Look, I respect the calves. I've been the five Cavs games in person this year. I've watched them up and close.

The first game I saw Mitchell was when they played the Knicks and the Knicks were on the road. And I watched and I literally called on my friends and said, we fucked up. That guy. And this is without Garland. Garland had the eye injury. He was in such control of the game. I call all my friends. I'm like, we fucked up.

Yeah. But something's happening. I had to throw some cold water on this next stuff. I love you guys. But I had to. And then, yeah, I just do want to talk about the future because I think it's important. I think they got a lot of great young guys. I think as much, again, like you, I've been very critical of Leon Rose.

I think he can be proud of the fact that they still own so much of their future draft capital, when and if they need to make a move for an actual substantive difference maker, they have plenty of shit to do it with. And I think that bodes well for the future. Who that person may be, I couldn't say, I would be skeptical of a deal for a guy like, say, a Zach Levine who in the past I really liked this year. I'm just like, eh, I don't know. Can do it.

Cherry Ferrar is too good for Zach Levine. Can't do it. I don't know who that person would be in the future, but they have plenty of stuff to package to go. And again, maybe some of their competition would be in O.K.C. Who has more shit, right? And I wonder how long we're going to play

this stupid draft pick shell game. I wonder how long that's going to last. It's a Ponzi scheme. And I really need to say this. I just wish we could live in an NBA reality. where OKC had to take, had to use every single one of those draft picks. Like the league decided collectively to shut them out and be like, no, we're not trading for it. We don't want you.

We want you to take every single pick that you own right now. It's not going to happen, obviously. People love draft picks too much. GMs is good for job security, all of that shit. But I would really love to see it. But I just think the Knicks are very well positioned to do so. And it's something that Nick fans should be very happy about. Yeah, like I said, when we were talking earlier about, yeah, we know there's some things that we could blame Leon Rose for maybe, but also there's the things that we could give him credit for besides like some of the good draft picks is, you know, we do have a war chest of assets to throw.

Now, again, I'm with you. Mitchell really felt like it just felt so lined up and perfect to do that deal. I don't know who the next place. is. And now I start getting worried because Mitchell you knew was safe and he's young. He's not in this, he's not 32. He's 27. So even if by like the third or fourth year, it was not a great deal. You knew you were going to get three years of like top of the line,

top 10, 15 player for sure. I don't know who that player is. Look, I'm not trying to hate on Levine. I worry about the knee. Yeah, that's my thing. If he didn't have these injury concerns. What is, I don't know, what is he won. He's never won

anything besides the dunk contest. Maybe that's harsh, but, like, I don't think his game translates to, like, dominant winning basketball. I think he's a really fun player to watch. I think he's a game-changing shooter. When his knee is right, he gets to the cup. He's a horrible defender.

But offensively, I think when his knee's right, he's a game changer. I don't know who that player is. To where, like, the defensive problems can be mitigated. He can be He's so good on offense at times. And so I like Levine more than most, but I'm with you.

I share your concerns. He's never played defense. His knee, he's got a bum knee. It's one of those things that's tough. Yeah, like I remember a lot of my friends talking about maybe there's a way they get Beal. I love Beal too, but I just don't do. I'm talking about Mitchell could have maybe swung this thing. If you go back in history, if we could have kept IQ, right?

And if it would have been RJ or an OB or RJ and Grimes even, which I hate to give up Grimes and the picks, like if you put Donovan Mitchell in that RJ or Grimes spot, holy shit, right? Like then you're really talking with grease, yeah. A problem. So I just don't know who that player is. I don't want the risk fat.

I don't want anything risky. I'd rather stay the course with this team the way it is than go with a risky, flashy name that used to be a star and maybe he's trying to hold on to being a star. Who's the name, Waz? Do you have one? You know what? You're connected.

You talk ball all day. I mean, all I'll say this, I know for a fact. Okay. And whatever. Aggregators do whatever y'all want. I know for a fact that Dame Lillard would not force his way out of Portland to go play in Indiana or Milwaukee. Right. I'm with it.

If you get my drift. I do. He would do that to do something like the Knicks. Right. Now, as far as how it works with the personnel and what the pieces would be and all of that, like, I can't say. It's not clean. It's not clean.

But, like, you know, as much as we love Brunson, he ain't no Dame Lillard. No. No. Dame Lippered is, look, man, I have the utmost respect for what, Yokic, Janice, uh, Steph, and Bede, Kauai when he's at his. his very tippy top best does. To me, Dame Lillard slides directly in the tier underneath that.

And I'm talking about on the court. I'm talking about temperamentally as a leader. As a, like, to me, that's what Dame Lillard is. And so that's the name for me, for me. Dame Lillard and Madison Square Garden and those 35-foot moon shots. And like, bruh, that's. The garden would go, the garden would lose their mind.

That's giving me goosebumps just thinking about it right now. So, yeah, I know for a fact, he wouldn't force his way out of Portland for some small potato shit. And I know he would embrace all of the things that come with playing in New York, like wholeheartedly. Yeah. And he'd be a model citizen at that. And so I'm a dame guy, for sure.

I'll give you my 30 seconds on that. Damien Lillard is the player I dream about as a Knicks man. Like, that's the swing you got to. take, I'm not worried. I'm just saying like, we only got a few more. Like, I know he'll hopefully he plays to least 42 or whatever, but. Yeah, he's got about two, three years of elite, elite. But I will say, right, I respect not like all the on the court stuff and off the courts

stuff, but what he's doing with Portland and like staying there and wanting to win there. We might not ever see anyone say that again, ever publicly. So to me, I think the only way to sort of make that right is like if Portland can't put the team around him to really get him back to the competition. conference finals. Yeah. You want them to go to a team. Yeah.

I always say, look, one championship with the Knicks is worth two anywhere else. I mean, that's just a fact. This is a fact. This is not even, it's, it's, and again, for people who don't have to spend a lot of time in New York, don't know many Nick fans, it's a disease. It's a sickness these people are afflicted with. They love this team so freaking much. They care so much.

Like, you can't, I can't put it into words. what this team means to these folks, you know, folks like Jerry and people in my family. And this is the time of year that we're at, we're typically with the Knicks, how it's been, I'm starting to lock into the Yankees right now. This is usually the time. Oh, opening day is around the corner.

Thank the Lord. Opening day is around the corner because can't watch this shit no more. Yeah, yeah. And no one's going to watch a Yankee game till June. Yeah. Big time. That's big facts. I don't know.

The cabs in five, though. Why did you ruin my damn day? I just got to give my At least give me six Can you give me six? I got to give my unbiased analysis man Can you give me cabs in six You give me cabs in five?

Cabs and five Cabs in five Caves in five Because I think they're a better team than that Atlanta team That bounced y'all Like a much better team That bounced y'all in five

Obviously the Knicks are much better Hell yeah That the Hawks team was on fucking fire Okay Deandre Hunter is drop a 25 I've tried every, but Donovan, they were on fire.

Again, they were on fire. They're just not a better team. Like, DeAndre Hunter. They were on a better run. They were on a better run at that moment. If you asked the Hawks, they're like,

why the hell did we trade Kevin Herder and keep DeAndre Hunter on the price tag that we did? Like, these are the guys we're talking about who were worse at that time. I mean, they broke the Hawks broke

Julian, Julius Randle, and then they ended Ben Simmons's career. Yeah, they were a nice story. I like that Hawks team. I think this. Cavs team is better. I still am scared of the Hawks from that series.

That's amazing. So you're in Cleveland, want to get you out of here. Talk about the time you're spending in Cleveland and anything you want to share with the people of the Ringer NBA audience, brother. Listen, I know there's a New York show. Of course. Of course. Shout to JJ. Of course.

Yeah, JJ's my guy. I played golf with JJ in Arizona at the Super Bowl. You know, I know there's a Philly-South. special. I don't know if Cleveland has their own show yet. So, but I will say this, okay? And like I said, my wife's here. We've been between here in New York and we got two little kids, but I will say Cleveland is one of the best sports towns I have ever seen. And I am worried, and I've been to Cleveland playoff great games in the LeBron era too, about the Knicks rolling through Rocket Mortgage. Oh, there goes my mic, rolling through Rocket Mortgage in a playoff game.

That crowd's going to be crazy. And a great sports city. I've had a black I really, I really enjoy it. I love it. Man, I can't wait. We're definitely going to talk to you in the playoffs. If the Knicks somehow find a way to win, you will absolutely, or make it competitive, you will absolutely be invited back on to gloat all of that stuff. I just got to give the people my run-and-cut-outist opinion.

I can't have one of the world's biggest Nick fans up here and a lot of the man's face, especially since he's been my dog for damn there eight years now. Come back. I want to host the whole show. If the Knicks beat the Caz in the playoffs, I want a whole show to myself. I want a mic and I want the whole, I want the whole weekend show.

Ah, man, I love it. Thank you for coming on, Jerry, man. This was incredible fun. This Knicks ride has been a great amount of fun to watch. I'm happy for you. I'm happy for all my Nick fans. It's finally time that y'all could be, you know, optimistic and see some brightness in the future.

I had a blast. Hopefully I'll be back. All right, brother. Thank you.