The Ringer NBA Show - Nikola Jokic and Serbia Get Bounced From the World Cup. Plus: Western Conference Big 3 Picks. | The Mismatch

Episode Date: September 10, 2019

NBA All-Star Nikola Jokic and Serbia were upset by a scrappy Argentina team at the FIBA World Cup (3:00). Plus: We go through the Kevin Durant Wall Street Journal article (8:57) and share the ideal Big 3 players for every Western Conference team (34:52). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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NBA 2K20. Welcome to the next. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Join me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O'Bomber, A.K.A. Kevin O'Brien, A.K.A. Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O'O. PINNUnderndi, Kevin O'Connynyrd. After this opening weekend of NFL games, I feel like there's a strong, strong probability. Come February, we could have a Patriots, Cowboys, Super Bowl.

our teams could go head to head. That could very well happen. They both look extremely impressive over the weekend. We only have a few. It's got AB, baby, baby. Oh, my God. Unbelievable. How long does that last?

It's going to last, you know, at least the year. You think a year? Yeah, no doubt. Absolutely. 100%. It's going to be. You don't think he's going to Instagram or, you know, You make a YouTube video of Bill Belichick talking to?

Here's a thing. Patriots this season have their best defense on paper of the decade. They have weapons on offense. They have a good run game, good offensive line. Tom Brady is still Tom Brady. And then you add one of the best receivers ever on top of all that that you already had, one of your best teams on paper of the decade, a decade in which you've already won three Super Bowls.

This is a team that at least has the upside. The upside, especially with an easy early season schedule to be in the conversation for like a 16-0 season. It's unlikely. You need so much luck to go your way. But this is a loaded roster, and I'm excited if they can get through this easy, early stretch, you're going to see first take and all these morning shows talking about,

can they do it? Can they go undefeated? That talk could happen come late October. Sign him up, Kevin Clark and Robert Mays. It's Kevin O. Pigskin. Listen to him. I'm stoked, dude. With the fire NFL takes right off the bat.

I mean, look at the early season schedule. It's cake. Oh, hey. Are you trying to convince me that the Patriots are going to have a good season? No, but I'm saying like, it's not too early to be like, can this team go undefeated? That's all I'm saying. All right. We got to get to, we only have a couple weeks before training camps are going to open,

most of which are going to happen at the very end of September beginning of October for these different teams. There are a few things that are going on, including the World Cup right now. This morning, I got up and I was up early enough to watch Serbia versus Argentina. Serbia had been promoted as one of the teams that could knock off Team USA in this World Cup action because they have Bogdanovich, because they have Yokic. I mean, they got five guys that are NBA guys. And there was the Argentinians led by the second leading score in World Cup history, Louis Scola. they take down Serbia and not only they take them down, they beat him by double digits.

And you have Yokic who has five assists, five turnovers and is benched at the end of the game because he's eaten alive by the pick and roll of the Argentinians. And you have Bialita, who is five of 17 from the field in that game. I mean, it was a shocking result, to say the least. Argentina, that is a bunch of rough guys. I'll tell you that.

play tough basketball. And they took down Serbia. So that was a big upset today. Spain was able to hold off Poland. So they move on. And so I think it's maybe at the very beginning, kind of thought Greece or Spain or Serbia would be the ones. Australia's still right there.

And they got pros too. The United States is not going to have. They're going to be in some highly competitive games and very well still may get knocked off. But at least one of those teams that featured one of the, the best players in the NBA was ousted early this morning, which was very, very surprising, very surprising. I mean, Argentina is not that, it's not the team of, you know, Genoboli, and they used to have Andre's Nosioni and all these kind of guys.

They don't have a load of NBA players, but there they are. So congrats to Argentina and kind of stinks that Serbia with so many NBA guys are not there because I was looking forward to seeing them play against Team USA. But that's done. The United States plays tomorrow against France, and they really got to watch out for Nilakina, according to you. Yeah, in regards to the games today, I did not see them live, however, was watching highlights of Argentina, Serbia while we were getting set up here.

And my goodness, Argentina got to the basket at will. And I know there's some stuff on social about how Yolkich guys. eaten alive on defense, how he got benched the last three minutes. But it seems to me like everybody on this defense was just getting attacked at will. Argentina was getting everything at the basket. But in regards to Yokic though, it is, you know, one of his weaknesses that he's had in the past is his pick and roll defense. And for Denver this season, when you think about in this loaded Western Conference and the teams that they're going to face, they're going to have to beat to have a high high seed in the playoffs, to advance in the playoffs. That is an area

Yokich is going to have to improve significantly. And this stretch of games for him is just another sign that he's still not where he needs to be. Last week, we did go through the big three teams that we had put together for the Eastern Conference. This week, we'll do the Western Conference. But we'll go through the news and notes first. Other news items that have taken place since we last spoke, you had the Anthony Davis article that came out where he claimed he wanted to win defensive player of the year. Doable. He wanted him and LeBron to be on the all defense team.

and I think it stands to reason. Look, they need both of those guys to be all defensive teams because they don't have all that much else defensively on that Lakers team. And certainly Davis has the capability, but maybe a little early to start politicking, but at least he's planted the seed. And so everybody is going to be on high alert to see how effective Anthony Davis is on the defensive end of the course. Now that he has gotten on the team, he wants to play on. He knows, whatever. I mean, I guess he could win defensive player of the year.

It's like the same three guys we debate every year, right? It's like, Draymond, you know, Draymond Green. Pat Bev will get a little more love this year because he'll be on national TV all the time. But it's like, Draymond, Gobert, Kauai, who do you want to pick, right? Like, PJ Tucker will get some love. But, I mean, there's honestly, like, five or six we usually choose from every year. And so Anthony Davis wants his name in the mix. And it should be in the mix.

I mean, I think in regards to, like, just the, you met, we were just talking about Yokic. I do think his flaws are real, but I think he's been underrated as a defender in his own regard. But I think in a way, Anthony Davis, this past season, has been sort of underrated overall. I think we quickly forgot how dominant of a player this game. I became in the 2017-18 season. So now surrounded by by far the best supporting cast that he's ever had. With LeBron James on the offensive end, with the guys that they have on that roster, AD certainly does have the upside of win defensive player of the year, especially considering

the fact that, I mean, I'm sure Draymond is going to be giving more effort over the course of the season unlike last year, but he still does coast a bit more over the duration of the season, as does Kauai. Kauai will have load management. I'm not sure a wing guy like Paul George will win over someone like AD. So the Lakers, ultimately though, do need Anthony Davis

to be at his peak levels on the defensive end of the floor over the full duration of the season. So I think he's right to put himself in that conversation already. Another star was in the news, and this was because an article that dropped this morning, the Wall Street Journal's magazine,

Kevin Durant. We've got another profile and he seems happy as ever. Some days I hate the players that let the NBA business, the fame that comes with the business, alter their minds about the game. Sometimes I don't like being around the executives and the politics that come with it. I hate that.

I mean, and then it talks about how, I mean, it's a deep dive to say the least, but what's going to happen is there's going to have, there's going to be. the quotes pulled from it, you know, most likely, I would imagine the one that'll be probably dispersed the most will be the one about Oklahoma City and, you know, feeling that that love

wasn't real and that he hasn't even talked to them, you know, and anybody from there anymore. And then you have, you know, I guess the, the Kerr quote might come out, you know, the motion offense that Kerr runs. It only works to a certain point. you know, and he had a little, you know, issue there. But, I mean, generally, I don't think, I mean, look, the article starts with some days I hate the NBA, and that's going to be the one that comes out. But, I mean, you know, it's kind of the same stuff you expected, right? He loves basketball.

He loves to play basketball. He loves to work hard. A lot of the stuff that goes along with being a professional basketball player, he really resents, right? And I think anything, anything that he probably said that was incredibly interesting was probably taken out by the agent. Yeah. I do think that Kerr quote about the motion offense did stick out to me, though, when reading through it this morning. You know, when you think about Brooklyn system versus Golden State, Golden State runs perhaps the fewest pick and rolls on ball screens over the duration of the season, while Brooklyn runs nearly the most. So I do think if KD is able to return the season or whether he doesn't return until next season, Kenny Atkinson's system does at least fit what Katie says he prefers.

you know, he himself said in the story. So now I had to dive into my bag deep to create stuff of my own off the dribble, ISO's pick and rolls, more so than let the offense create my points for me. So I do think Brooklyn's offense, maybe we will see Kyrie and Katie taking more turns running pick and roll, which for Katie, apparently, is exactly what he wants. Yeah, you have, like I said, some days I hate the NBA, you have the Warriors. I started to realize I'm just different from the rest of the guys on the Thunder. He doesn't trust anybody there.

I mean, that was interesting. Do you think him saying, like he said in here about, OK, see that at some point he wanted to come back to the community, to the organization, and then he got treated the way he said he got treated. And then now he's like, hell no, I'm never going back. Do you buy that? Like, he would have went back had he not, you know, been called a cupcake and everything else that came with it?

Or is he just trying to just pour salt in the wound here? I don't know. I think probably. I think probably he would. I mean, it is a weird, it's a weird deal there. You know, I mean,

I guess the only one that you could, well, no, it didn't even really, I guess a Kauai thing, but Kauai was, like he said, Durant was like the first,

like, totally beloved guy there in Oklahoma City. And, and that just wasn't so with Kauai. He was kind of the next group. because, you know, Parker, you know, he's playing. He was on a team with like bonafide Spurs legends that people loved and lived and died with for, you know, two decades, for God's sakes.

And so the Kauai thing is a little different. I mean, we don't have, geez, I mean, there's not that many that have left a place where you think, geez, they'd never be welcome back there. But the truth is, look, you'd be welcome back there one day. Same way, once upon a time, they burned everything, LeBron. in Cleveland. They weren't exactly closing the door in his face when he wanted to go back. I don't know. I mean,

I just feel like a lot of things have hurt Kevin Durant's feelings. You know? Yeah. Over the course of the last several years. For sure. And you saw the way, you know, it talks about how, you know, his new head space and, you know, people need to stop worrying about if I'm happy or whatever else. But I do think that people take a step back and they go, what, what is it? You know what I'm saying?

Like, why are you, why are you so, why are so irritated about everything all time, you know? I mean, Katie's an interesting guy. And I think for him, I understand why he doesn't want people to care about him, but people do care about you. A lot of people look up to you as a player and as a person, you know, the greatness he has achieved in his life. I think a lot of people do care that he's happy. I think for him, that's, I wish that were something that he were able to embrace, knowing that people care. It's a good feeling. It's a good feeling when people care.

We talk about this a lot. But with me, it's like the type of thing with, like, my dad got diagnosed with cancer. Last night, this person, Paul said hi to me in the street. And he was like, I wanted to thank you for, you know, being so positive with everything after your dad got diagnosed. And it's like, it's easy for me to be positive when so many people have been positive to me, so many people have been kind. So it's the type of thing where, you know, I wish for Katie, it was the type of thing

where I know he gets so much hate. he gets so much hate but I wish the kindness was something that like he reached you know and grabbed hold of because that maybe that would help him you know in some way and I'm no and I'm and I know I'm no psychologist but I mean I saw I saw him and I told you many times I was around him during his time in Oklahoma City and he was one of the most beloved figures throughout the entire NBA I mean there there was nobody that had any reason oh yeah not like him and so he went from virtually universally beloved to universally hated. And I'm talking hate in the sports context, right? Like, people don't really hate him. But it probably does feel that way when you care so deeply about what strangers say on social media. And it's just, and that's the shame of it all because he was one of the most likable

people in the entire league. And now you see and it's like, okay, well, he doesn't like the fans. He doesn't like the media. He doesn't like the, you know, he doesn't like the guys in Golden State. He doesn't trust or like anybody in Oklahoma City. And it's like, bro, all you talk about is everything you don't like. Like, you know what I mean? Like, and everywhere you go, there's no like, like, what about?

Like, you know what I mean? Like, you can say, hey, we had some unbelievable times there. and, you know, one day my number is going to be hanging in those rafters. And, you know, maybe I, you know, maybe I wouldn't go back and change anything, but hopefully people understand or whatever. But instead, it was just this recoiling and then this resent towards everything. And I do think he thought he would be fulfilled. I mean, that's been chronicled a hundred times.

And Bill's talked about that. Yeah. And then it didn't. And so, but it's like, bro, why, how does he end up like hating everything? You know what I mean? Like he doesn't like his time in OKC. He wasn't like the guys in Golden State and he's not going to remember that all that finally. He doesn't like being around executives.

He doesn't like the media. He doesn't like fans. I mean, clearly he's going through something, you know, from within. I mean, it's easy for us to say like his life is fantastic and he should be happy. But like clearly there's something going on, you know, if someone isn't happy. You know, and I think Katie, I think the way he's perceived. I think from what I've heard, he's probably much happier than the perception of him. I just think Katie has other interests where he doesn't care about the stuff surrounding basketball,

as he's flat out said. I think for Katie, him and Rich Climman, his agent had a, I forget if it was early this year or last year, but Katie said he might want to retire at age 35 and then focus on his other interests. And even in this story towards the end, it said Katie decided to wear number seven because it stands for, quote, completion in the Bible because God rested in the seventh day after creating heaven and earth because completion of his career is on his mind. He's thinking about family, having children, doing his business interests and all that. So for KD, it's the type of thing here where this could be his last stop. This could be towards the end where he's at the point where he's just fed up

with everything else. All he wants to do is hoop and focus on the stuff he cares about. So I think it's the type of thing where I believe I've said on this pod before, but I've at least said it in conversation. I think for Katie, he's chasing something, you know, externally. He's looking for that external satisfaction, whether it's from a championship or, you know, there's something more that he desires than just success on the basketball court. And I hope he's able to find it. I do. Listen, the times I've been around him and everybody I know that's been around him likes the guy. Yeah, he's a good dude. And you'll find him to be a really good dude. I just don't understand all the interviews, like where he's always pissed.

It's always mad. You know what I mean? I found it interesting. Is it really that surprising, dude? I mean, people wake up a lot of times and go on social media being negative. That's the way a lot of people just are. I mean, it's okay. I guess.

I guess so. But I'm just saying that to me, all right, it would be if I was around you, Kev, if I was around you, I would expect you to be a positive person because that is what you portray. the majority of the time. And so either that is you or that's just an act. But I've been around you and it's not an act. Same way you've been around me. I'm generally laughing about stuff and I see the glass half full.

Whereas I'm saying that is different than anybody I know that has been around him. He's not, I don't know. Maybe he is. Maybe his teammates would tell you he's a dour and negative and not fun to be around. but all of my interactions with and the people that I have known that have interacted with him really like the guy and don't find him to be a grump all the time, you know? But he just comes off like a grump. Every time he talks to somebody. I don't know if it's to sound cool or to sound, I don't know.

I don't understand. I don't know, man. Him and Kyrie are a perfect match, though. That's all I know. Personality. They want to sit around and bitch about stuff. All right. A couple other headlines.

I'm excited to see how this season goes without Katie early on. And Kyrie is sort of establishing himself as the leader, if you will. Oh, really? You want to see how that goes? I want to just go watch tapes of Boston last year. It's not fun. Yeah, we'll see. I saw someone tweet this morning.

It's interesting. Kyrie hasn't put up a single Instagram or tweet or anything, a single social media post about the Nets. Oh, is that right? Yeah, it's very interesting. All right. Other thing that has happened, Adrian Wojianowski, had the story, big story, that Jimmy Butler and Drew Holiday and Montres Harrell and Carl Towns and Jared Allen

and all these guys that were wearing the ninja-style headwear, well, they can't do it anymore. Oh, geez. The NBA never had a formal process to approve the headgear, and they didn't want to cause a disruption by intervening last season, but they have notified teams. but they have notified teams that the headbands would not be part of this year's approved uniforms. It said some members of the competition committee expressed concerns on safety, including the looseness of the headware, which is, in my estimation, totally ridiculous. The looseness of that. Like, bro, just say you don't like how it looks.

Just say that. Just say you don't like how it looks and you don't want everybody looking like nins. out there. You know, like they don't want them wearing this ninja style headwear. Like, that you, you know what I mean?

Like that you don't like it, that you don't like it. And so, but the looseness, the safety concern. What? I don't, I don't get it.

Like, all right, so like the NFL says, hey, look, O'Dell Beckham Jr. You can't be wearing a frigging quarter of a million dollar watch. I could,

you know, they could get caught on something. You know what I mean? They could rip somebody's arm up in the bottom of a pile if everybody's, you know, piling on. But these ninja headbands, come on, man, the looseness of the headwear. Safety. Just them hiding behind safety concern is ridiculous.

What do they say? And your finger could get caught in the headband or something? Yeah. You know, it's odd. I will say this. There's a couple things in life that I love most. I love listening to Pink Floyd. I love eating spoon by H.

And I also love scrolling down and reading Woj's mentions. And in response to this tweet, there were some really good ones. And one of my favorite ones was from Pinwheel Empire. And it was a photo of Zach Randolph as a ninja turtle with this ninja style headband with the eye holes cut out. And it's like, damn, I wish a player would just kind of. come out like opening night like a ninja turtle. Here's the, here's the truth.

They probably, you know, they, you know, they make the NBA headbands. The truth is they probably have it figured out a way to make those headbands and make money off of it. That's the truth.

If they want to sit around to be honest, that that's what they should be talking about. Yeah, it's about money. They want to, yeah, everybody's wearing these head on it or something. We ain't, and we ain't got time.

We don't have time to put to get, you know, make a bunch of NBA uniform headbands. Everybody wears generally the NBA, the NBA, you know, sanctioned headbands if they wear headbands. But they're not making any money off this thing. And so now it's like, oh, they're so loose that it could be a safety concern. It doesn't make any sense.

It really doesn't. So that one happened. And then another big NBA reporter, Sham Sarania, he reports yesterday in this is a big one. This is just unbelievable. And I'm going to read it. And I will, I will let you. comment because you did comment yesterday. Sources, colon.

Memphis wants three-time champion Andre and Guadala to report to training camp and is refusing right now to engage in buyout, which would prevent Iguodala from finishing a Hall of Fame career on his terms because this may be his final NBA season. Iguodala is the vice president of the MBPA, one of the league's most respected and desires a contender at this stage. young rebuilding grizzlies received a valuable 2024 first from Golden State in the Iguodala trade and after the Dwight Howard buyout

were expected to eventually have the same talks with Iguodala I'll just read my tweet the Grizzlies would be foolish to buy out Andre Aguadala now and they won't do it after free agents this summer are eligible to be dealt on December 15th the trade market could be quite strong for Iguodala I understand why Iguodala wants out but he'll have to wait to join a contender and here's the

the grisleys were never buying an Andre Godala. They were never buying him out. It was never a conversation. It's not something that's going to happen. Even if Andre Godala goes full Antonio Brown, full Antonio Brown, punting the basketball, yelling at

the front office, telling the new coach that he looks like Tyler Park from the ringer. Even if he does all this, they're just going to send him home, Keith Bogan's style. Like the Celtics did. back in I believe the 13 season. They would buy him out

if he wants to give back a massive amount of his contract. Does he want to do that? I would assume that if he wants to give back a massive amount of his contract as to free up that space, then so be it.

I mean, Dwight Howard just did. He gave up a pretty good sum. I don't know. I don't know. Are you sure you would? Are you sure you would? If you're Eagle Dalla, though, are you sure? Sure, like if you're the Grizzlies, you would still buy him out. Or are you better off waiting until December 15th? No, of course, you're better off.

I'm saying if he wants to give back a massive amount of his contract, what amount do you think he's willing to not make of that $18 million? You know what I mean? And here's the thing. This is what bothers me. Bro, blame Golden State. Blame them if you want to blame somebody. Don't frame this like the Grizzlies are the bad guy.

You know what the Grizzlies did? the Grizzlies sent Mark Asaul to Toronto. The grizzlies sent Mike Conley to Utah. Golden State sent Ecuador to Memphis. So don't blame the Grizzlies. Blame the Warriors

for him being in the situation that he's in. But I mean, he got traded to the team. And so now he is an asset with value. And I do think, I have said this to you, I do think he could change the trajectory of

team, especially if you're talking about, say, the Lakers, you know, all these big market teams think that the small market teams should just be a farm team for them. And generally, it's because they can get their way, right? You know, because Kauai signs in L.A. and that Anthony Davis just wanted to get to the Lakers, despite the fact they weren't even a winning team last year. But they think that that's how these other teams should function to just do what's best for them. Why on earth would the Grizzlies pay? $18 million for Andre Aguadala to play for the Lakers of the Rockets. I mean, that is just insane.

What are we talking about here? Why would they do that? That's what's projected out there by Shams, by putting out this tweet, which might as well have been written by an agent. You know, like the Grizzies are refusing to engage in a buyout. Like, you could frame it. Andre Aguadala is refusing to show up to training camp to play for the. the team that's about to pay him 18 million bucks.

He's not refusing to show up the training camp. That's not a scoop, is it? He is going to show up? I'm sure that he is not going to be a trading camp, I would imagine. Interesting. You think he's going to show up? I mean, he should. I guess he should.

He should. I think he should show up. I don't know. If you really want him there, all pissed off? Yeah. I mean, I don't know if he's going to be pissed off. He might not be pissed off. He might just show up.

And this may simply. be, you know, just putting it out there, you know, through Shams that, hey, you know, Iguadolla wants out. But it's like, and here's the other thing. It's just kind of a last to the Dwight Howard deal. Nobody wanted Dwight Howard. Like, there wasn't a trade market for Dwight Howard. Whereas if you and Iguidala, he could, I mean, especially when you're talking about like

the clippers are the favorite. And they got these, you don't think somebody having Igwe dollar would be beneficial when you're having a guy. to face Paul George and Kauai Leonard? Yeah, of course. Like it goes without saying, and that's exactly why the Grizzlies wouldn't buy him out because it would be stupid to buy him out, considering the fact that come December 15th,

when all free agents that were signed this summer are eligible to be traded, you're going to see two types of teams pop up on the potential trademark of Higua Dala. A, contending teams that have a salary that could work with Eagle Dalla's $18 million deal, teams that could immediately add Igudala and would need him to advance in the playoffs to bolster their chances of a finals run. Or B, you're going to see teams that have a longer-term salary to dump that are willing to put a first-round draft pick, a future pick, you know, a young player along with that salary. And then the Grizzlies would take on that salary while the other team would take on Iguadala and likely cut him or flip him. And in that case, Iguodala either way, at some point this season, is probably going to get what he wants with landing on a contender.

It might not be the Lakers. It might not be the Clippers where he would rather sign after a buyout. But there is a possibility, though, if it ends up being that a team trades him within a salary situation, you know, salary dump and they buy him out, Iguodala come March could get his wish going to one of the L.A. teams, assuming that that is where he wants to go. And you know what would be a real trip is if somebody like, you know, say like a Minnesota, Minnesota says, you know what, we'll just give up, you know, Gorgie Jeng, we'll give you a pick too, right? Because we want to make the playoffs.

We want to be a playoff team. That's a possibility too. And then you're in Minnesota, but let me just make this clear. Bro, it's, it's annoying when stuff is reported with such opinion involved in this. It is not the Grizzlies preventing Andre Aguadala from finishing his career in a great situation. It is the warriors that prevented him. I mean, well, technically it is Memphis. It's just, it just doesn't.

The only reason he's on the Grizzlies is because the Warriors trained. I know, I know, but like, it doesn't, to me, it's, it's just, it's true. Like, the Grizzlies are preventing him. It just doesn't matter to me that they're preventing them. They have the right to prevent him from playing for a team that he wants to play for. They have him under contract because they acquired him via trade. I mean, they're within their full rights to do that. We live in a different world now, though, where people can suddenly feel bad for somebody

that is getting paid $18 million. It's like, you know what? He is so respected and so beloved that the Grizzlies should be willing to pay him $18 million to play for the Lakers. I mean, that is so dumb. It is unbelievable. It sort of surprised me the amount of support for Ego Dala in this case following the report from Shams. Because the way it's framed.

Well, no, it's not, I don't know if it's just the way it's frame. Most people don't realize what the buyout means. And like that basically they, they don't, if you sat down and explained to most of the people that see that, you understand what that mean. Yeah, that's, they were going to pay him $18 million to go. go play for another team. Most people would be like, wait, what?

Like, imagine if Shams framed it like that. Iguidala wants to negotiate a buyout, but does not want to give up much of that salary, meaning the Grizzlies would have to pay him $18 million to play for another team. How many people you think are supporting that? Oh, that makes all the sense in the world. They should do that. Hey, man.

That's part of the game. That's part of the game. That's one of the reasons why Shams is one of the best and only getting better at his young age in the reporting game. That is for sure. So we will see the way that one all plays out. But I agree with you. It'll probably be later in December. And he is certainly something worth trading for.

I think, you know, when it comes playoff time, one, that he is a player because of his championship pedigree and because of his still. his defensive ability and his ability to step up in the playoffs and in big games, he is still somebody that could dip the scales. He really could, especially when you're talking about the best players being wings on a couple of these teams that we think are the favorites. People will want him. He is a desirable commodity. It's not like, you know, the Dwight Howard thing or some other players that get moved or moved or get bought out.

The reason they get bought out is because you want. want the roster spot and nobody's willing to give up anything for them, you know. And so you just got to try to find, you got to figure out a way to, you know, not have them on your team. All right. Last week, we did the Eastern Conference Big Three, in honor of the Big Three and Iso Joe, the league's MVP, uh, winning, we put together big three teams for every Eastern conference team.

We're going to take a quick break on the other side. We will go through the Western Conference. do that after these words. All right, we'll get right back to it. I want to remind everybody, today's episode is brought to you by Floor and Decor. Don't miss out. Floor and Decor is the only one-stop flooring shop that keeps general contractors, flooring specialists, and renovation experts ahead of the game.

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And score savings and service you won't find anywhere else. That's floor and decor.com. All right, Kevin. So last week we came up with our big three teams that we would put together. If NBA teams had a big three tournament, who would they send to represent them? And we did the Eastern Conference, which wasn't all that hard, but a couple of them got a little bit dice here.

we at least had to make decisions. The Western Conference, I mean, this was an exercise that when you think about who the three guys are, like, we even debated, say Milwaukee is the favorite and we debated who their third guy would be, right? Yeah. It just shows you the strength of the Western Conference when you go through these teams and you're like, my God. Their third best player is good on virtually every single team. The third best player is a really good. player. It's the type of thing where last night after I watched Bachelor in Paradise, I had a

pull an all-nighter figuring out these teams is pretty stressful, man, especially after that episode of Bachelor in Paradise. Good stuff last night. Dean coming back. Pretty good drama. We'll go an alphabetical order in the Western Connoisse. We will start with Dallas. So Luca Porzingis, who are we going with the third?

Are we going with Tim Hardaway, Jr.? Are we going with Dilan Wright? I'm going with Seth Curry. Seth Curry. Seth Curry. That's my pick. Can space the floor when Luca has the ball. He can run, pick and roll with Luca or KP.

I mean, what a dynamic trio that would be. I mean, I look forward to seeing those three sharing the floor at the same time this regular season. I mean, like we talked about Dallas recently, Chris. And I think this seemed to be really good. Really, really good. They need Luca to take a leap. And they need KP to be the KP we saw for the. the first 10 games of whatever season it was.

Yeah, I'm excited about Dallas. I'm excited. I know you are. You're excited about everybody. There's a lot of teams to be excited about, Chris. I know. We yelled about this last week. Yokic, who got benched for Serbia against Argentina.

You got to put him on the team. And I'd assume, Jamal Murray. And then are we doing Gary Harris? Yeah. I thought about this. Denver's one of those teams where they have so many options. They have a lot of depth, man. I love Beasley.

Now, that is a good, by the way, that's a good contract to your guy right now. Milly Beasley's going to get paid a lot. I love Beasley. I love him. I love him. I love him since Florida State. He's, he's turned into a good player. Will Barton would be good in a big three type setting, too.

You know what I mean? Yeah. That's another guy. Yeah, but I think we got to go with, I think we got, Harris, especially, you know, because of the defender that he is, we've got to throw him on that team. Golden State, it's Curry, Clay, and Dremont. I mean, that's the most natural. Last week we kind of did guys who were hurt. So it can't be Clay, right?

Can't be Clay. So I guess we're throwing Russell instead of Clay. Yeah, I guess we're throwing Russell on there. All right, DeAngelo Russell. Do you think DeAngelo Russell has a better season this year than he had last year? I mean, probably not with raw numbers, like, such as points per game, which, who cares? I do think he'll be more efficient. I think we're going to see more of his offball prowess that we haven't seen since Ohio State.

And that's exciting to me. So I do think overall he'll be better. To me, one of the things I'll be watching for is like how much more effort is he giving in the defensive end of the floor? Hopefully quite a lot more. All right. With Houston, we are going Westbrook Hardin. And do we want Tucker or Capella? Tucker.

Tucker. Tucker for Big three. I think for Big Three, we have to have Tucker. I agree with you. Speaking of that, do we take another bulldog on, well, I guess we got our choices on the next team, which is the Clippers, because they have got tons of bulldogs. We've got Kauai and Paul George, but if we're not using Paul George because he's hurt, right? I mean, I think he counts. Okay.

All right, then we'll count it. When I said on this pot a couple weeks ago that he could miss the first six weeks of the season, that's just with some talk this summer that he could miss six weeks. I mean, I don't know the latest. I did see a report that he was shooting around, which is a good sign. Hopefully he is ready for opening night. But we'll see. I think if you lined them up all on a wall and you said, all right, take your pick, you'd pick Lou Williams. But is it Lou Williams?

Is it Montres Harold? Is it Pat Bev? I think I would go with Lou Will here. Really? Yeah, I would. Bucket getter. Yeah, bucket getter. And the other two, right?

Right? You got Kauai and Paul George they both rebound really well. Boardman gets paid. Kauai can do that if he needs to. Bordman gets paid. I think that's fair. The Lakers, we have LeBron,

we have Anthony Davis. I feel like we need to put Jared Dudley just because of that pitcher he had earlier. With the big three. That was so damn funny. Shout out to Danny Green. But Jared, I would, no, I would take Danny Green in all seriousness.

Really? Yeah, no doubt. Would you rather Danny Green than Kyle Kuzma? Yeah. Unless Kyle Kuzma's shot has actually improved, which we'll see in preseason

and regular season. But I take... What is Kyle Kuzma's ceiling? In your opinion? So Kyle Kuzma was a guy I didn't love in the drafts. I missed on him. I was wrong.

But I think the evaluation was sound in the sense that he doesn't do a lot else other than score. He's a theoretically versatile defender. When you look at his body and his size, but he doesn't,

he doesn't produce in the defensive end. I would love to see Kuzma become a plus defender consistently. To me, if he's able to do that, that raises his ceiling as a two-way player. Because the scoring is already there in a volume sense. So if he can improve his efficiency as a score in regards to improving his three-point shooting consistency, as well as becoming a plus defender, then his ceiling is, you know, I mean, what is that? Like a top 45 guy in the league?

Something like that? He's already a good player. is it a do you think that there's a reasonable chance he's the third best player on the lakers yeah i i would say it's there's a reasonable chance he should be the third leading scorer wouldn't you imagine should be the third league score yeah um but but third best player is a different conversation that's fair yeah um all right speaking of the next team the minnesota timber wolves towns and wiggins i guess we'll throw them with covington isn't we need a if we're going Alphabetical

If we're going Is it Memphis? Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I missed the Grizzlies. All right. Memphis, Memphis would be probably John Morant,

Jay Crowder, Jaron, J. Crowder, Jaron Jackson, Jr., no, I got Jammar and Jaron Jackson, Jr. And Andre Guitala. I love it. Perfect. Perfect.

Andre Gwada. That's my team. It's got to be Iguidal over Jay freaking Crowder. Come on, Crystal. I love Jay Crowder. Oh, he's fine. Wait, hold on now. Let's act like prior to the playoffs,

which by the way, Crowder ended up starting in the playoffs. Crowder was way better than Iguodala over the course of 82 games. You know, Andre Aguadala averaged like six points a game last year, right? I don't care about his averages. I didn't even play. Forget about the raw numbers.

it's about the player's capabilities. Jay Crowder, I mean, is a good player. Jay Crowder is not the caliber of decision maker, passer that Iguodala is, and Iguodal is a far better defender when he's playing at peak levels. Iguada is a more clutch player.

Iguada has head and shoulders better than Jay Crowder. I don't think right now he is. Jay Crowder had like a one really good season with Boston, and other than that, he's been nothing but inconsistent. I think you're thinking about Andre Aguadala. as it was years ago and the one game winning shot because he made that game winning shot

or the game tying shot in that playoffs and then he was like one for his next 50. You for real? I mean like yeah he's an inconsistent shooter. You're right. So wasn't Jay Crowder

but Eagle Dahl is better at everything else. Everything else. I don't agree. Absolutely everything else. How are we arguing about Jay Crowder versus Andreguidala? Because Andrego Dada is old now.

This is for him. He's not the same player. He was. You got, you're thinking of Andre Aguadala five years ago. Go look at the, go look at what he did. I guess if you don't want to act like, if you want to act like the numbers don't exist, we can. It's not about the,

then I'm going to bring this up every time you bring up somebody's numbers. Don't look at their numbers, Kevin. No, you're, I'm talking, but I'm saying you can't look at Andrea Aguadala's numbers and make the case for him. Yeah, he averaged, he averaged 4.4 shots per game and 5.7 points per game. So what? He's playing on a team with a bunch of,

bunch of superstars that are taking all those shots. It's the type of thing where if I go Dahl is getting 10 shots per game, he's going to score more points per game. Raw numbers are not the number one thing with it. And also like, that's not the key reason why you have Ego Dahl on your team. It's not for points. It's for defense. It's for passing.

It's for facilitating. So all of the other stuff that you would have him on your team other than scoring. It's great for Golden State. That's for sure. Great. Great for Memphis. So he'll be a great, great player. for a couple months with the grizzlies.

I bet he won't even show up. I hope he does because I'd like to play golf with him. Is that a scoop? Is that a scoop, Chris? Do you know something we don't know? I don't know. Is he going to show up? Do you think you send Shams out there to report that if you want to show up?

He doesn't want to be in Memphis. Maybe that's the next step. Pull on Eric Bledso. Send out the I don't want to be here tweet. Oh, I was just out of hair salon. He already has. He already has. No, he tweeted out new slaves, the Kanye West song.

That's what he tweeted out. Ah, I didn't see that. Well, that was a couple months ago. Interesting. Yeah. That was after the trade? Yeah, after the trade. I didn't see that.

Minnesota, Carl Towns, Andrew Wiggins, Robert Covington? You're putting Wiggins on that team? Are you sure you want to put Wiggins on that? Yeah. You know what? I was thinking about this the other day. I think he's gotten shit on two.

much. He's way overpaid. But he's not like, I mean, I think it's gone a little far. Like he is the bum of all bums. He's not the bum of all bums. Come on now. I mean, he's, look, he's way overpaid, right? Way overpaid. I think we all can agree on that. But I don't know. It's gone a little far, I think. Little far.

All right, you pick the player that you'd rather have than him. Well, Towns in Covington for sure. I think you have to go with Jeff Teague in that case for the, for ball handling. Jeff Teague, wow. Yeah. Wow. All right. Let's get to the New Orleans Pelicans.

I wish they were able to get to Angel Russell. Thinking about stuff that didn't happen. Oh, that would have been fun for them. Yeah, I wish they had been able to. Pelicans are a tough one. We're throwing Zion on there. I think you want Ingram on there. Holiday.

And holiday? Yeah, not even a question. Okay. I think JJ would get a look. Yeah, I think JJ would get a look over at Ingram. That's possible. Shout out with JJ Redick. Getting off social media.

Did he? Yeah, he's been off for like a year now. No more social. Boy, I really noticed. Oklahoma City. Wow. Chris Paul, Stephen Adams, Denilo Galanari?

I have Chris Paul SGA Gallo. That's my team. They're going small ball here. No, I can't get a rebound. That's fine. I understand. You can't get a rebound with that team.

All right. All right. Now, this one, I think we're going to break ways. Phoenix. Oh, yeah.

I have, Oh, yeah. I have Aaron Baines, Cam Johnson, and tied Jerome. Because they're the only ones that haven't lost a thousand dollars.

They're not used to the losing yet. Oh, you're ridiculous. They haven't lost. They haven't gotten used to losing yet. I'm going. Booker, Sarich, Eton, three winners. Three winning players.

Their first round loss in our big three tournament. Portland. I look forward to seeing Dario with Phoenix. Of course you do. There could be some ball handler opportunities there finally. You know what? I was just thinking the same thing. I can't wait to watch Dario and Phoenix.

I've been waiting for years. I've been waiting years, Chris, for Dario Sarat to get opportunity as a ball handler on the brinking. I thought that would happen in Minnesota. You understand why it didn't happen in Philly because Ben Simmons is there and the transcendent player that he is. But here in Phoenix, that opportunity could potentially be there. Maybe he just got way overrated playing in Philly. No, Sarge.

Sarge is good. Sarge is a fine player. Portland, I think we know the two in Lillard and McCallum, but who are we putting with them if we're assuming we cannot do Nerkich? Are we going Zach Collins? Are we going Hassan Whiteside? Rodney Hood? I think Collins. Yeah, we need somebody that can rebound.

I think Collins. All right. I'm fine with that. Do you think White Side? Do you think White Side has a chance to have a bounce back here in Portland? Yes. Just because he's such a dud. So, like, of course, you can bounce back on that.

The opinion could not be lower. What I mean is not. So if he does well. I don't mean like, I don't mean tiptoeing over this low bar. I mean getting back to the guy a couple of years. back when he was actually a really good player. Is there a chance of him reaching that level? That's what I mean.

Probably not. I would say probably not too. Because that's kind of a fire in the belly thing. And I think he got that massive contract. What if the fire is in the belly right now? Because it is a year for him where he can become a free agent next summer. He will be a free agent next summer, I should say. This is a contract year.

It seems like a classic case of a guy who's going to give maximum effort and see if next year he gets paid again and that would be an ultimate risk for our team I think he has to give it this year otherwise he won't get paid at all. So he doesn't have a choice. He fools everybody one last time. Well I don't know if he's going to fool anybody but gets one more

contract. I don't think anybody's going to get fooled but I do think it's possible but I do think that he's going to at least try to fool everybody. Okay. If your question is do I think he could fool somebody by playing awesome for a season.

Yes, I think that's a possibility. Forlund's interesting if he does manage to fool everybody. They're interesting anyway. They're always better than we think they're going to be. Seriously, they are. Like, we go into the season, and they're better than we think they're going to be. And that team's coming off a, it will be a little bit different because it is different for teams that are coming off of their best season ever, right?

And that was, they finally broke through and got to the Western Conference finals. And so it will be a little bit different this year than it has been in the past year. They've kind of been the team that, you know, nobody, nobody, okay, they win some regular season games, but so what? They get bounced in the first round of the playoffs, right? But now they'll have a different target on their back than maybe before. Sacramento, Bagley, Fox. Are we going healed on the wing? Boy, I wish we could just go with Fox healed Bogdanovich.

I wish we could. That'd be fun. What is your problem with Marvin Bagley? I mean, don't die on this hill. I'm just saying, I love Bogdanovich. That's all I'm saying. It's nothing against Bagdanovich.

Well, Bagley's going to have a monster season this season. Watch. Watch what I say. Watch what I say. Yeah. Just like, watch what I say. Watch. Just like.

He will. Just like you said, Marshawn Brooks. It was going to be better than Trayong. No, better numbers. Got thrown out of the league, kicked out of the league. He's gone forever. I'm only kidding. Bagley's good.

Bagley's good. He's the choice here. I'm just saying I wish we could go super small with Fox healed, Bogdanovich for this exercise we're going through. Lamarcus Aldridge, DeMarter Rosen. Derek White. I think I got to take Patty Mills after this Australian performance. Oh, yeah.

You know. He has been so good. Yeah. Where are we on Dejante Murray? I'd go Derek White because of the defensive ability and the more potent offense than Murray, even though Murray, he probably has higher long-term upside. I'd go with Derek White here. Who are you higher on?

Murray or White? Today, White. You know what's crazy? Just looking at this as I'm looking at the roster, which I didn't necessarily realize. You know, depending upon how long guys are in. college but White is three years older than Murray. That's crazy. He's old.

Yeah, no, he is old. No wonder he's good. He's old. He spent, played division two before transferring to Colorado, Division I. I mean, it's quite a story for him. One team left, the Utah Jazz. And I, this is an interesting one if we're putting together the big three.

Because do you want to go with two or their best players with Conley and Donovan Mitchell, or do we want to spread it out more so that you've got, like a Joe Engels with a Conley or Donovan and then Gobert have a big guy with him. Conley's on there for sure. And I think you've got to put Gobert. No doubt about that because of his defense. Okay. How about this?

Boyan Bogdanovitch or Joe Ingalls? We're talking over Mitchell here for a big three team. Yeah. if we took a wing instead. Which wing would you rather have anyway? I think I would go with Joe Ingalls in this case. Over Bogdanov? I'd go with Conley, Ingalls, Gobert.

And that's a strong big three here. I mean, Jazz are loaded, man. This can be a really great team. What about for the season? Would you rather have Bogdanovich or Ingalls? Ingalls, probably because the playmaking and he's better on defense than Bogdanovich is. They're different players, man.

Like those guys, you know, when you really think about it, they compliment each other pretty nicely. Bogdanovich being more of the score in Ingalls can do the facilitating. I like this team a lot, man. Just look at the roster. Royce, O'Neill. You can even mention Royce O'Neill in there as a three-in-year player. This is the thing that happened with the jazz. Their stuff happened early.

So we talked it up early, right? And then the Clippers crap happened and then the Lakers stuff happened. And that happened like later down. the road and so they got talked up and they all got elevated and so but i i mean i think you and i were both very high on the jazz after they made their free agency moves and i still remain that it just kind of got they would have been they would have continued to be a big talk about a team that uh was a good team that even improved more and made some really good moves except for the fact that such superstar stuff took place but um i like them you know i like them at ed david

I like them at in Bogdanovich. I was not crazy. I'm obviously not crazy about the Jeff Green thing or the Moodye A thing. You're a big Jeff Green fan. Let's not hide it here. You love Jeff Green. How many Jeff Green jerseys do you have? None.

I don't know about that. I might send you one. Get like a Jeff Green, Jeff Green, Utah Jazz T-shirt. No, you won't. You sent me a Rashon home six or something. This will be the 18th coach to love how it looks in practice. and then put him in the game and be like, oh, no.

But I will give him this. He played good for the Cavs. He's had some 30-point games. Here's what I know. I know Tony Allen, you know, tore up his hamstring and they proceeded to get, put Jeff Green in the lineup instead of Tony Allen. They got beat by 1,000.

You got Tuesdays of Tony today on your local show, right? I don't. I don't. It's going to be Wednesdays. He's actually, you know what? You should call him up, Kevin. He's out there with you. Really?

He's doing a rehab thing in, uh, in, in L.A. Maybe you guys should get together. wait for real he's in l a yeah he goes out there his agent's out there paul pierce is out there a bunch of guys are out i thought you had him in studio last week unless he just flew out okay he comes back he goes back and forth so you are gonna still have tuesdays of tony

tomorrow it's just wednesday okay so it's just this week though because yeah you can't change tuesdays of tony to wednesday i know we can do whatever we have to do unfortunately uh kevin it is always a pleasure we only have a few more weeks until training camp is going to open. I want you to caress your Devin Booker bobblehead until we speak again. I'll be watching Bachelor in Paradise, watching Feeba, watching football,

WNBA playoffs. We have a lot coming up before September 30th, which is, I think, media day for most, if not all teams. So that's exciting, man. Coming really soon. I'll talk to you next week. Thanks, Kev.

See you, Chris. Thanks to everybody. listening to another edition of the Ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes. Five stars, five stars. It really helps. And we will talk to you next week.