The Ringer NBA Show - No-Loss November for the Suns, Knicks and Nets Rotation Changes, and How Does MPJ’s Injury Impact Denver? | Group Chat

Episode Date: December 1, 2021

Justin, Rob, and Wos start by discussing the Suns winning their 17th consecutive game last night against the Warriors (1:42). Then they discuss the Nets' close victory over the Knicks and some of the rotation changes that both teams have made (23:38). They wrap up by talking about some of this week's news including Michael Porter Jr. undergoing back surgery and the Bulls and Heat being punished for tampering (32:14). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Full Court Fits is the Ringer's new weekly NBA video series hosted by Big Was, Waz, aka Wosney-Lambre. Each week, we take you around the world of NBA fashion and share can't-miss style choices from your favorite players and keep you up to date on the latest news and releases in sneaker culture. Waz also talks to experts like Damian Lillard's personal stylists to give you behind-the-scenes looks at how the NBA's biggest stars choose their outfits. New episodes drop every Friday, so make sure you're subscribed to the Ringer's YouTube channel at YouTube.com slash the ringer so you never miss an episode. And welcome to group chat.

I am Justin Barrio, joining me, Big Wads, Rob Mahoney. Rob, I'm going to try to get through this podcast without calling you out for your Beatles documentary takes. I know you're a big fan, but I just watched last night after the basketball, man. I can't do it. I can't believe. Wait, you put it in eight hours after the games? Oh, no, I finished.

Yeah, it's been a slow drip. It's been a very, very long process. Oh, it was a fire hose over here. As soon as those episodes were up, I was diving in. Great post-Thanksgiving Digestief. You know what I mean? DeGestief, yeah, exactly. All right, we're going to get through a melange of things today.

We're going to get into the MPJ injury. We're going to get into the results of the tampering investigation into the Bulls and Heat. What a big result there. We're going to get into the Knicks. But let's first start with another barn burner coming out of the Tuesday night. The TNT broadcast pivoting to Tuesday night being their big matchup has been a real boon for this podcast, I have to say. So the Sons

were clash of the two best teams in the NBA, two best teams in the West. Suns had 16 wins, I believe, straight coming into the game, Warriors, 18 and 2. And then the Sons just kind of dominated, at least in the second half, and provide another statement when got win number 17

in a row. Let's start here. Let's start with the defense. Because I think that was probably the biggest story coming out of this one. The Sons were a pretty good defensive team last year, but I wouldn't call them necessarily a juggernaut. But here they are second in the league now in defense.

And what a statement holding Steph Curry to, I believe, is worst game ever where he shot more than 20 attempts in a game. So, Rob, are you surprised at, like, how good the Sons have been on defense, in particular, how good they were last night? Not terribly, just because even when they didn't seem like a juggernaut, they were always one of the most coordinated and organized defenses. And that's what you have to be to play the Warriors, right? Because at no point in this game did Steph seem comfortable? And at no point in this game did the suns seem panicky or flustered, which is, that's what the Warriors are banking on. Like, they trade in the idea that they can freak you out with the threat of Steph shooting.

And if you're not biting on that, because you're plugged in and you know your scouting report and you have all this length and you can rotate the way they do, you can make it work like they did. Yeah, coordinated is key. I remember listening to Chris Paul on JJ Redick's podcast, and he goes to JJ. He's like, what do you think about job coverage? Because I hate it. And he goes into a whole diatribe about like, your coverages need to be specific to who you're playing.

You need to keep the offenses off balance. The best players, if they know exactly how to attack a coverage every single time, it's not going to work again. And I'm watching the Suns last night. And that's a group who is custom fitting what they do on a possession by possession basis based on who's not only just the opponent, but who's on the freaking floor. Totally. You know, like it's matchup dependent. It's team specific.

It's, bro, the level of execution is crazy to watch it. Look, early on in the game, you know, Jordan Poole is getting free, right? Like those screens, they're getting planted on screens and he's getting those looks, those clean, sweet. sweet looks, and he is just splashing it because this dude has never seen a shot that he does it like. And, you know, the sons are like, all right, we have to be better at that, right? And you see it over the course of the game, Jordan Poole wasn't getting those clean looks. And the Warriors' office didn't look as precise as it did in the first quarter where they

dropped 35 and the rest of the game. They scored like 66. It was, that was impressive to watch. DeAndre ate enough of it all that he not only that he can quote unquote, stay on the floor against the wars. He looked good against him on defense. And then y'all saw what he was doing on the offensive end. Yeah, it's funny how we talked so much about the warriors being able to stay small with

Dremont and what an advantage that was in particular for the defense. And it still is. They still have the best defense in the NBA, even despite this most recent performance. But it felt like the playoffs again where like one team had a specific advantage, but the sons are just so versatile and flexible. they can do what they do with their base lineup. And a big part of that is Aitin being able to protect the rim. I mean, it really reminded me of just the combination of coordination and length on defense,

kind of what the Warriors ran up against in the 2016 West Finals against the Thunder. When Stephen Adams and Sergei Baca were switching, they were both really mobile at that point in time. Obviously, Kevin Durant, you know, Andre Robertson in the mix there as well. And there was just so much coming at step all the time. it had that bit of a vibe. And the fact that we got a playoff kind of atmosphere in game in November, we'll take it.

We'll take it on these Tuesday night games for sure. Well, how much do we think McHale Bridges was what led to Steph's off game? Or do we think Steph just had an off game? I think Bridges matters because when he was guarding Steph by himself, because like oftentimes that's kind of the answer, right? It's like, all right, um, Steph beat us right now. Not the pick and roll with Draymond where he, you know, he gets two nice people on the short roll because people blitz Steph on the pick and roll.

Not the beautiful game stuff coming off the screens and you're fooling defenders off ball. Like, no, Steph, go ahead, here's the ball, beat us. And oftentimes, Steph will get a mismatch or he'll get somebody who can't stay in front of him and he's finishing over him at the rim or, you know, he's getting to the mid-rame. where he's very deadly. Whereas with Bridges is just like, Steph, go ahead, beat the guy. And Bridges was just on him.

He was white on rice. It was ridiculous to see. And, you know, even when he got switched off of Steph, he's doing help, defense stuff. It was crazy what he was doing out there. Yeah, that part of it was big because whenever Bridges got switched away, he made it so hard for Steph to pass it to whoever he was.

Like, if he was on Draymond or Looney or whoever it was that was trying to duck in, he was in those passes. lanes mucking everything up. He's a menace. Like he's so tough on the ball like Waz's saying and that he can still find ways to impact plays and contribute even when you switch him away from stuff,

that's huge in a game like this. Also, because we spent so much time talking about this early in the year, this was definitely a DeAndre Aiton. Give me my motherfucking money. Cut the check. Yeah. Cut the check. It's funny how he really

rises to the occasion in the playoffs and in the biggest game of the year. I don't remember this happening a couple games ago against the wolves, man. But yeah, no, I do want to talk about Bridges quickly because I think he's getting a lot of a lot more national attention. I think he definitely makes the rounds in the media, especially at the ringer wise.

But I definitely think like the cult of Bridges is starting to emerge a little bit here. How good of a defender is here? Like, are we talking best wing defender in the NBA? Are we talking best defender in the NBA, Rob? Like, I guess let's like apply some contacts of this. Yeah, best wing defender, I think he's got to be up there, especially in terms of versatility. The range of guys he can guard is incredible. Is he the best defender in the NBA? I mean,

I think that's going to be tough for any wing guide to do. But as we were talking about, if you can be the kind of wing guy who's impacting play is beyond being a stopper, that's where you start to get that kind of ground swell and appeal. But I think it's a matter of time before he's kind of an all defense team regular. You know, he's going to have that kind of reputation very soon. if he's not there already. Because, you know, I'm reminded to LeBron in the Miami years before he realized

that he was actually a big man, but yet was performing these big man tasks, right? Like when Bosch, because they were playing so aggressively in pick and roll defense, and they were blitzing dudes out to like 30 feet, the back line of defense was oftentimes LeBron and D. Wade, and those guys were meeting guys at the summit and getting blocks.

Like, we all remember Tiago Splitter getting his head split at the, rim by LeBron James, right? We saw Bridges do a little bit of that last night. I want to see sort of how he responds to the heftier guys, the LeBrons and the Kawhis, when they get in his chest and sort of back him up because he still seems like he's a little bit light in the shorts in that area, but that's picking nits.

Like this guy is phenomenal on the defensive end and definitely check him out on full-core fits with yours truly on the ring of YouTube. You just don't find many guys who have that. combination of, as was saying, big man ability to like chase down block, for example, and then also are lean enough and quick enough to slither around screens and stick with guys. I mean, there's a handful of players in the whole league

who can do both of those things. Is it sacrilegious to bring up Kauai? Like, are there Kauai vibes happening with McKell Bridges? Because on the one hand, he has a similar trajectory, which just seems like he's making his bones on the defensive end. And then the offense is coming along steadily. Unfortunately, the offense is coming along. really slowly. In this game, he only scored two points, but they didn't need it. And I think

he does more than I think he would expect from a typical three-and-d wing. Like, he could handle a little bit more, you could pass it a little bit more. Is there that, like, sealing to him ever? We're going to need a version of that clip where LeBron is looking over his shoulders, seeing Kauai check into the game and going, fuck, under his brother's shit or whatever he says. I don't think he's at that kind of fear factor, which is the big difference, right? There's like, can you defend? And are you when people, heads. I don't know that he's in people's heads just yet. So I put to me like, and again, I'm showing my age here, but Kauai is in the category of Scotty and Artest because they were

physically imposing. Like, these guys were made of granite. These guys were like, phis, like, waiting, you know what I mean? And so I don't know if I put bridges in that category quite yet, because just physically those guys had a heft and an imposing factor that I don't know that Bridges possesses yet. But, you know, the fact that we can't even talk about him in the terms of MetaWorld peace, Queensbridge finest, that's high praise. Yeah, if those guys are made of granite,

Bridges is like made of rubber or something. I don't know what texture he is exactly. Okay. Well, I mean, he's definitely getting a large dose of grit added to his game. And I think Chris Paul has been a big reason why. I almost wonder if the defense is better because the rules are now favoring defenders just slightly and Chris Paul is getting away with things more than usual. Is that anyone else seen that?

Yeah. Yeah. It seems like you could be a little bit more not dirty, but like not not dirty. Hansy. Yeah. Hansy. But like, I mean, you could also see it in just like the filter down effect to guys like Bridges, the guys like Aiton.

I mean, we talked about Aiton just like rising to the occasion on the national stage. age. I do think a big part of, and maybe this is just projecting and just knowing about Chris Paul, but like a big reason why they've been able to kind of basically ignore all this like major investigation going on to the organization, which is real off a franchise best 17 wins. I think you have to credit Paul. And like maybe you have to credit Monty Williams as well. But like everywhere Paul has gone, he's done this. Like he went to Lobb City and he organized a bunch of chuckleheads who were just like telling fart jokes to each other. He brought James Harden to, like the best level he's ever been at.

He went to the Thunder and made them a freaking playoff team when everyone was wondering like how they could even fit three guards into the lineup. And here we're just seeing like all of that kind of coming together just once again. And so I have to wonder like, is this not in large credit to Paul? Like if we were to take a MVP straw poll,

I don't think Paul would be in like the top five. But like I think these are the type of things that go and notice and like would really bolster his case. Well, this is the difference between a team. the sons and a team like the jazz. And a big like D'Andre Aiton and a big like Rudy Gobert is there is an organizational effort to get D'Andre Aiton the ball. And some of that is Chris Paul's level of precision and his ability to move guys around the

floor to create those angles. There's just a totally different like investment in those kinds of opportunities, especially in a game like this where that's the most important factor in this game is can D'Andre Aiton be a weapon on the floor, not just stay on it, but can he be a weapon on offense? he was the best player in this game DeAndre Aiton was. And a lot of that was because of the way Paul and his teammates were setting him up in a game where we haven't mentioned yet, they didn't have Devin Booker for the entire second half and still won.

To Justin's point, I think you got to give Chris Paul credit because of just what Rob just said, Booker doesn't play a single second in the second half. And look, when Chris Paul went off the floor and we had to watch, Alfred Payton and all this nonsense happening. It was like, woof. The minute he comes back in, it's organizational. Like, they're so professional, right?

Like, the possessions become professionalized because Chris Paul is orchestrating the whole thing. There was a, man, there's one possession that just illustrated everything. They're playing a bit of a, I don't know if it's the one-two-two or it's the boxing one, but there's kind of zoning up the suns, right? And Aitin is doing that dance

where he comes in the paint for three seconds, steps back out or whatever. And Chris Paul just times up a pass perfectly right past Draman, who was in front of Aton. Aiton catches it layup. It's like, bro, like this is why it's important to have somebody like this on your floor, right? The other day I tweeted like, man,

the Sixers and the freaking Lakers like, y'all should have went hard to get Kyle Lowry in your building because that's why. Like, this is what these dudes do. Like, they understand how to squeeze every single last ounce of what you guys can offer out of every single possession and they do it on a consistent basis. And Chris Paul in the second half was doing that in spades. He had that just on lock. Well, I want to talk about the flip side of that too because while the Warriors have had,

in the large part, a pretty charmed opening to the season, there's still 18 and 3. and do Clay with Thompson back, seems like in a couple weeks or just like, I don't know, it might even be sooner than that. The size is clearly an issue for the Warriors. They didn't really know how to combat that on the Suns. And I do wonder if long term that's going to be an issue.

On the one hand, they do have James Wiseman also waiting in the wings, but as we saw last year, he didn't provide much of a reprieve against teams with size. So, I mean, if we're looking for Achilles' heels, for a team that has been pretty much a juggernaut to start the season, is that one of them?

And how much of a concern is that? I think it's one of them. But in a playoff setting, too, while the Warriors, I think, do give up some in the playoffs, like their offense isn't quite as effective in the playoffs, just due the physicality of it, when they can scheme against someone like Aiton, they can do different things to him.

You even saw some in this game when Steph would get multiple pick and rolls in a row against Aidan. The first one he might get stopped. like Aiden blocked one of Steph Curry's stepback threes, which is wild. But you give him multiple cracks at that. He's going to figure some stuff out. And so that's where the question is, you know, if they're playing, if this is a playoff matchup by game four or five, what is DeAndre Aiton's status in this series?

No, games one through three may be smooth sailing, but it's tough to stick with the Warriors game after game because they're super adaptable. They can really challenge you at every position whenever they want to. I think they still have a lot of, a lot of optionality. in terms of how to handle bigs to get them off the floor or to minimize their role. But if the other team's just going to stick with them flat, like the Suns probably would with Aiden,

I think it's going to make it tough for you, just like on the offensive glass and stuff like that. Yeah, and, you know, I mentioned this on Bill, not this part, but, like, the dirty little secret about the Warriors KD era is that they actually needed him. I think, like, if you talk to Steve Kerr or, you know, if you talk to management, they will say we needed that shot creation.

Steph couldn't, like, we couldn't reasonably ask Steph to be the hub of how we create shots on the ball, in the playoffs, in those tightest moments, just all by himself. They need that. To me, that's what I would be worried about the most as a Warriors fan. It's like, Jordan Poole is incredible as a shooter off the ball.

He ain't nobody's one-on-one, break you down. That's not what he's going to be doing to you. Clay Thompson is coming off for two major surgeries guys, major injuries. And even in the best of his days, you know, again, game six against O KC, notwithstanding, he hasn't been, he wasn't always dislike, oh, I'm this one-on-one assassin killer. Even that game, he was known for how little he dribbled. You know, that's like his trademark. Exactly. So like, you know, I don't, to me, that's what I would be worried about. But even this is a bit concerned trolley. The Warriors, like, Steph was horrible last night.

He's going to play way better than that in future instances. It's just like he's going to probably pay better than the worst game of his life, you know, in the future. So, like, we're being a little bit concerned trolley. But to me, that's always my biggest concern with the Warriors is like, all right, when teams have the personnel, the way Phoenix does, has you well scouted, has the defensive know-how, and they take away all of your easy, offensive flow buckets,

and they make you just beat them. Will the Warriors have it? We'll see. Yeah, I think the caveat is, as was kind of laid out, Steph played one of the worst games he's ever played, and this game was still right there for them with four minutes to go.

You know, like, I know the Booker thing is kind of its own complication, but the Warriors were right there in this one. Yeah. I know it's concerned trolley, but the fact that we can't come up with the answer does concern me, like, legitimately going forward. Like, yeah, Steph won't have a game like this going forward, but he will have bad games. And I do wonder, like, who is that guy to step up?

Like, my mind immediately goes to like, ooh, what star can they trade for? Because, like, I do wonder, like, they need that guy. Yeah. Look, in, you know, I don't want to offend Rob's sensibilities here. I know we shouldn't be doing fake trades and all of that. But that's why I personally was very intrigued by the idea of bringing Bradley Bill in there. Of pulling all the assets, getting Bill in there. Because he is so clearly that second ball handler with juice that in the clutch is like,

you got to defend the step back, you got to defend the drive, this guy will finish, this guy will shoot it. Like, you know, I was very intrigued by that idea of just being like, I don't care what the roster looks like outside. out of Clay, Draymond, Bradley Bill, and Steph,

I'm rolling. I'm out of here with that, with that level of talent on my team. So definitely, I think a Brad Beal's situation would work wonders

for this team in the play. I think they'd be clearly the best team in the NBA would have moved like that. But again, I'm somebody

who's playoff after playoff, right? Like, and we talk about styles and matchups making the fights and mattering the most.

I think what you saw from Milwaukee against the Sons and the playoffs was like, they couldn't do anything with Yonis. Whereas with Steph, it feels like they could do shit with Steph. Yeah. The Sons is like, no, we can do something with him. With Yonis, they could do nothing. And it's not that

Golden State is that much worse than Milwaukee. It's just that matchup-wise, the Sons, that's a bad matchup for them. Yonis presents some horrible problems for them in a way that Steph just doesn't. So I think that's what's interesting about all of this stuff. Well, that's to your point about Bridges, too,

with Janice, the question is, do we guard him with Jay Crowder or DeAndre Aten? Like, Bridges just doesn't have the strength to hang in that kind of matchup. Whoa, my friend, they have Javelle McGee now. Okay, sorry. Throw Javille into the mix, too. Well, like, how do we feel about the top

of the West now? And I guess like the top of the NBA because, Waz, if we're being honest, you were kind of a son's pessimist going into this season. Coming out of this game... For the championship I was. Okay, okay, that's fair. Are you feeling better about the Suns than you were the Warriors

or do you still feel like this is the Warriors Westalus? I mean, again, this matchup dependent, I think in a Warriors' sons matchup, again, with all this wing depth, that's been the best way to stop them, right? Like, in the past, that wing depth was like LeBron and Richard Jefferson and J.R. Smith. But guess what? Like, they did the job, though, right?

Like they dug in, they played defense in the biggest possessions. Like they got stops, right, when it mattered. That's been the best way to stop this team. And when I look at the wing depth on the suns, I got to tip my cap to them. Like, Cam Johnson and all of these guys, these guys are menaces. And freaking, of course we know Chris Paul has been an excellent defender. Damn there, his whole career. Devin Booker, the strides that he's made on defense,

where he went from just a complete non-entering. to Tia Siv to like he tries his ass off now and you can't just take his defensive possessions for granted as an offensive player who's trying to attack him. You know, yeah, they got the pieces to make it very hard for Golden State. So in that matchup, I'm leaning towards the Sons.

What do you think, Rob? I mean, I picked the Sons to win the Champions or to win the West Dillies. Oh, God, here we go with the batting itself on the back. Here we go. I'm just sitting back checking my nails over here. Yeah, I don't know, man. The season seems a little bit more topsy-servy than I think I even expected.

Like, I think going into this, I was like, oh, man, this is when the Nets really assert themselves and just start a dynasty akin to what the Warriors were a couple of years ago. And now it's like, eh, jazz, maybe? Like, the Lakers are barely 500. Like, I didn't expect them to struggle this much. It's pretty confusing. And I guess that leads us more into our second game of the evening than the, Nets and the Nix here. We don't have to talk about this one too much just because we talked a lot

about the Nix and the Nets last week. But I did want to talk briefly about the Nix's decision to bench our friend Kemble Walker, which really hurts me as a Yukon alumnus who watched all games going into that title run. But I think everyone saw this coming. I did not see Alec Burks as starting point guard and air quotes. While I was just from like one of the first looks at the new look, Nickerbockers. They lost by two points, but they made it a game at the end there. Does this seem like the best path going forward and you think like this new starting lineup with basically the four guys from a four in Burks is the way to make change here? Look, based off of the game against the Hawks and the game against the Nets, two teams that I think

are way more talented than the Knicks and better, it's obvious this is the right decision. They just got, I don't know, there's something about Burks being in there. just feel like they have more juice, more pop while he's in there, you know. And he's doing shit with the ball. He's knocking down spot-ups. Like, he's pushing the base. And then, of course, that opens it up for IQ and D-Rose off the bench to do what they do. Again, I know the numbers don't bear it out.

It's just what I'm watching with Topping I'm really into. Just the way this guy, he really. runs his ass off on every single possession. He's crashing the boards. He's a lob threat all the time. So that vertical spacing where defenses have to suck in and, you know, understand that he's a lob threat, it's, you know, it's better.

They just, they look way better. And the numbers were there. Like, they were like minus 17 with Kimmel Walker on the floor. Like, at a certain point, the numbers are too obvious and objective to argue with. And they played the nets toe to toe. They beat the shit out of the Hawks. What do you want me to say?

Like, they look way better without Kimball Walker. Yeah, the new starters in this game weren't even a positive. Like, I think they were just barely outscored. But just by not getting massively outscored, that's what they need. Because the bench is that good. The energy that they get from guys like topping in quickly is that important and can lift them in that way. The reality is just that I don't know that there's many things on a basketball. ball court that Kemba Walker does better

than Alec Berks right now. And I, that's kind of a damning state of affairs for Kemba's career, I think. And hold on, can we take the audience behind the curtains real quick because the callous, Justin Verrier, the name of this segment in our notes,

mind you, he's talking about he's talking about the Yukon King, cardiac Kemper Walker, Kemba's career on cardiac arrest. Spot the line. Wow. cold-blooded. My God. I know. It's sad for me to say, man, but it's just like, it just seemed like his knee is, I don't know if it's ever going to be better, especially considering his size and what he does. It's just, it's brutal. But props to Tibado for actually making the decision. I mean, he had mounds of evidence as was mentioned to make this decision. But like, he wasn't the type of coach you would expect to do so. And to do, to go with Burks is a little bit more of a curveball than I expected. I guess you could say that.

like he also didn't want to mess with his beautiful second unit and like rose and quickly is working and I personally would have liked to see Rose be elevated to the starting units but I guess that's like asking a little bit too much from him but it seemed like they are also leaning a bit more into like a Julius Randall centric sort of world and I wonder if that's going to pay dividends at the end like just like empowering him to be more of the guy and funneling things more through him in that first unit won't just make them better overall. Yeah, I agree. I just, you know, it was such a feel-good story when it happened in the off-season.

There was some hope that maybe Kimba's knee could get back to being semi-functional, and it's just been a train wreck. And, you know, the guy who refused to sit Alfred Payton last year, okay, has declared that he's benching you basically a month or so, and change into the season. That's heart-wrenching stuff, man. Yeah. On the upswing, what a year of personal growth for Tom Tibido

to get to the point where he's willing to do that. Having said that, Burke's played 39 minutes last night. You don't grow all at once, you know? It's only a matter of time before his knee is shot. Do we going to talk about the Nets really quickly? Like, I don't know if I have a ton to say here, but they too went through a bit of a roster reshuffle. Like Blake Griffin is out of the rotation

in favor of Lamarcus Aldridge, who looks like five years ago, Lamarcus Aldridge. It also helps that there are like four good players on this entire roster, especially now that Joe Harris is out. I mean, they pulled it out. Hardin looked way better than he had in recent weeks.

But I guess how concerned, if we're just making this the concern troll podcast, was like, are you more concerned about the Nets than you were, like even last week and you were pretty concerned? Definitely. Because, you know, part of Hardin being back,

so to speak, this game was some of them, you know what I mean? Tax evasion foul calls that he was doing, right? Like, you know, he got some of the three-point fouls going. He got some of the arm rip. Oh, he got me on the elbow, headed to the hoop. And I probably wasn't going to finish the layup if I didn't get this call. He got a bunch of those, this game. So, no, I'm not as encouraged.

That's not the type of thing I think you can lean on in the playoffs. I'm still worried about this team. And, man, I'm not going to lie. I went into the season dismissing the idea that they needed Kyrie Irving in some, like, you know, emergency type of way. Like, oh, Kyrie Irvin is going to be the only thing that unlocks this. I was skeptical of that. I feel way differently now. I think they need Kyrie Irvin to make this thing right to make themselves the juggernaut that they're supposed to be.

Even though, again, like, they're like, what, 14 and 5 and 15 and 5 of what it is? That's a great record. Right. 15 and 6. But yeah. Rob, where are you on the concern of meter? I think it's mostly the rotation stuff. They just depend a lot on Deontre Bembury, on Paul Millsap. And like that's, I've been beating the Blake Griffin drum over the course of the season as far as how bad he's been for them. But the problem with pulling Griffin entirely from the rotation is, I think Paul Millsap is pretty much cooked at this point. And I say that as someone with great admiration for his.

career, but I don't think I've seen him make a shot this season. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's the problem with these like veteran like ring chasers and midseason buyout candidates. It's, I can't remember the last one that actually made a difference. And it seems like a lot of the top heavy teams, the teams that we're counting on to be at the top of the standings, the Lakers, among them are all going to be vying for all of the has beens that actually get cut loose to begin with. And so I don't know. It just seems like there aren't clear solutions. A lot of the teams are so asses. poor that they can't really trade their way

to it. So like... It works out some of the times, though, J.V. Like, think about Batum last year. Think about what Otto Porter's doing right now. PJ Tucker. Think about what... Yeah, Keith Morris was did for the Lakers in the play. Like, it

can happen. It just 90% of the time does it. I mean, one case is the first month of Lamarcus Aldridge. But what happens when Lamarcus Aldridge isn't awesome for a month? I don't think most people are going to be near death with heart failure. So I would say it's an extreme case.

But I get your point. But yeah, no, it just seems like Blake Griffin, Andre Drummond, how many like weeks and months did we spend over like where those guys were going to end up? And it just seems like I guess Blake did have quite a playoff run and Drummond is is getting a lot of rebounds in Philly again. But like, yeah, I just can we get those anonymous GMs to show themselves? Those anonymous GMs who were crying about all the buyout. is it fair, the buyout,

a buyout. Small markets don't get buyouts. Show yourselves, cowards. James Johnson drilled those free throws at the end, and they wouldn't have won that game without him. All right, let's flip now to a little bit of a news brief that just came across right before we started recording, the long-awaited decision in the tampering investigation

into both the heat and the Chicago Bulls that everyone was waiting for. this entire season has come down and it is a tantamount to a slap on the wrist. They both lost second round picks as a result of this. I don't think this matters all that much. Although I will say the heat, like I think they have like one second round pick over the next seven years. So maybe this matters a little bit much.

But considering that they just find guys off the scrap heap and turn them into the best shooters of all time, like I'd maybe it doesn't actually matter. Rob, I guess like are you surprised that this is what ended up happening? Do you think it's like a fair punishment for the crime? No and no, but this is where we live, you know? I will say, I mean, I don't really understand the difference between the buck situation with the sign and trade for Bogdan Bogdanovich in which they were basically prevented from completing it and punished versus this one where, like, is it worth it to the heat to give up

a second round pick to get Kyle Lowry? Yeah. I think, I think they're fine with that ultimately. So why these deals were allowed to be completed and then get this slap on the wrist. I just don't understand what the difference is between those things. I'm old enough to remember when Joe Smith, Joe fucking Smith, Joe Smith, y'all,

got the Timberwolves, like, sanctioned for damn near a decade, okay? Yep. You know, all it says to me is, like, this is the type of stuff that Adam Silver doesn't give a shit about. And, you know, I'm not going to lie, I'm starting to sour on the Adam Silver

of it all. in the league, man. I just think there's a lot of times there's not a lot of rhyme or reason to a lot of shit that he's on. And, you know, this, like, either, just don't do nothing. We did an investigation.

We think they should have blah, blah, blah. We're going to find him some arbitrary amount of bread because this was ugly. And they should be cleaner about this kind of stuff. And we're moving on with our lives because ultimately, this shit don't actually matter. Like, taking away the second round pick it's like a feign, you know, they're fainting.

You know, this is like shadow boxing damn near. Like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're going to hurt them. We want this to matter. It's like, stop, man. Like, you don't really care about this shit. And just send that actual message. Yeah, it's just a show of good faith to the owners because I think it's important to remember that Adam Silver's boss is the owners of this, of this league.

And, like, I think this is just a way of preventing more stories coming out over the summer about like phone tapping and like phone cloning and getting like PIs involved to make sure that people didn't send a text message like five minutes too early. I guess the thing that really kind of irks me about this one. NBA got to hire the KGB.

Right. Is that the Pelicans and the Raptors participated in these. Like these were sign in trades. They negotiated deals in order to get these guys on their team. So I don't understand how the teams that were ostensibly like victims in this situation got off Scott free, you know?

It's absurd. Yeah. So, all right. Well, I'm glad we settled that and now we can move on with our life. Another bit of news that came up earlier this week. Our guy, MPJ, in particular, Rob's guy, Michael Porter, Jr., had his third back surgery. Not good. Obviously, the nuggets are already ailing.

They don't have Jamal Murray. They've also went through a spat of injuries right before we recorded. I think Austin Rivers and our guy Bones Highland also went into COVID protocols. They've lost a bunch of games recently. It's kind of a mess down there. Rob, what's just like, I guess, the takeaway here? Well, here's actually a better question. Like, do you think this is like a short-term issue that they can overcome because of like the

organizational depth and like the talent they have on this team? Or is this like a much, much bigger concern? is this something that could potentially topple, you know, a finals contended that we were expecting for the next couple of years? Yeah, back injuries are not short-term issues. Never, you know. And Porter's career is a testament to that. This is his third surgery.

It may not be his last. That's the reality of the situation. And it hurts because, you know, last season, after they traded for Aaron Gordon, that was Denver's moment. They really had a window there before Murray got hurt. This season was going to be Porter's moment to really step up and have a chance to lead in a different way,

to produce in a different way. Now he's gotten hurt. And that's not to say there won't be more opportunities for this team and this core. I mean, God knows the nuggets are now financially committed to the lot of them, but your window in the NBA can fly by when you have these kinds of complications,

when you're waiting on multiple guys, on multiple timelines to get healthy. And that's even assuming they could be the team we thought they could be. So it can get late fast, is what I'm saying, for Cores in the NBA. You know, I think there's some silver linings here, right?

I think about somebody like Dwight Howard whose late prime was kind of robbed from him by back injuries when it came to the Rockets and the Lakers. But guess what? Like, he's in year like 17, and he's still a reliable player. Not that MPJ wants to be like Dwight Howard is right now. It's just the idea that the back didn't completely screw him

out of his career, right? And MPJ is young enough and he's athletic enough in other ways that maybe he could come back to this and be like a fringe all-star type of guy because he's still so damn young, right? Again, Dwight Howard is,

he's come back from that back situation, you know, and he's contributing at a crazy old age. And so a guy who's way younger, they said they're taking the long view. Maybe he can come back with a great plan and a great medical staff and be the type of guy that we expected.

However, the bottom line is, you know, you talk to people who saw this dude at Nike Hoops Summit who saw him growing up. Everybody agreed, like, this is can't miss. This is going to happen. This is guaranteed, right? Like, he's the best guy in his class. He was basically rubber stamp, number one pick.

He fell to number 10 solely because of his back. Nothing else, right? like teams were just like, yeah, we can't even justify this shit until the Nuggets were just like at number 10, a number one pick talent, we can't pass this up. And so it's not like any of this is surprising. It's sad. It sucks. And hopefully, I hope, because I want to see him reach his full potential,

I hope he's able to overcome this in some way and we get to watch some version of the player that we all thought he might be. Well, and the reason the Nuggets couldn't pass him up, I think is instructive. And it's because they were already a really good team. he was potentially the piece that could take them over the top. And so if Murray comes back and is more or less the same player we've seen him be previously,

this is still going to be a really good playoff team down the line. Just can they get to that championship kind of level, that contending kind of level, maybe in a West that's as wide open as this one, they can sneak in there. But it's going to take a lot of proving for them to kind of get back onto that stage. Knowing that Porter probably going to be out for the rest of the season, I think there's a little bit of doubt there. It seems like they're being a little coy with like when he's ultimately going to return or when the timeline is. Murray could be back later this season.

Does it change your approach in Denver, especially considering how much they've struggled recently? Like, do you play now for the draft pick or, I mean, they probably won't do it this soon, but like, let's say this is still a struggle going into February and March. Do you scale it back a little bit, try to get some more talent in there? Or is this the type of team that can't tank really because you have a lot of? Nicola Yokic, who's playing at an MVP level. I don't think you can tank because you have Yokic and because if you're talking about dropping in the Western conference standings,

you got to do some work. Good luck. You really got to take your legs out from under you to drop past the Kings and the Spurs and those teams. Because the reality is the Nuggets right now, as we're speaking, are 10th place in the West. They're a half game out of fourth. Like, that's where the West is right now.

And they're not going to make up that ground with, you know, basically a fourth of their guard rotation. active right now. Like they are, it's slim pickings in terms of the, the infrastructure there. But I just don't see them having even the ability or the want to free fall in any way that would help them in terms of draft equity. And to me, just culturally, man, if Jamar Murray can come back this year, bring him back. Bring him back.

We want to see that. Like culturally, like, get those, get him and Yokic back on the court. Because what they got going as far as chemistry-wise and just a sort of mind-mell of two teammates who understand exactly what each other is trying to do at all times. Like, you got to bring that back and, you know, scare some people in the damn Western conference this postseason. Yeah, getting Murray looking like Murray again is so much more valuable than moving up four spots in the draft or whatever.

Right. And I mean, after we said the Rockets could be the worst team in the league, they think they've won every game since. We did it. It's crazy. It's amazing the Rockets. Are coming up. I mean, no, I agree with you guys.

I think it's going to be tough to just really bottom out here. But I do think this brings us to the conversation that we ultimately always have with the Nuggets, which is luxury tax. And how do they fit all of these guys into the same roster? Because Yokic is due a supermax by the end of the year. And now if you give him that contract, you're already over the tax line.

And there are some cuts that they can make. Like, Will Barton is probably a movable piece. There's probably a couple other guys on the fringes. But then you're also hoping that you could, put more talent at the pipeline and build around these guys and that porter will be back in time that murray will be the same player i don't know man it's just getting really complicated really quickly and i i i would hate for this to be a contender that never was you know that this would be like not even like a grit and grind level team because i don't even know if the nuggets have ever gotten

to that level of consistent uh competition but like i think there's a timeline a very realistic timeline where that happens listen they're getting the the cronkeys are getting that sweet, sweet L.A. Rams money. Okay? They can afford to pay this damn luxury tax. They got Walmart money. These people need to pay the damn tax. I'm sorry.

Like, yeah, you did what you. And first of all, the Yolkich part of this is like the, that's the most baked-in part of all of the moves that they made. They had to see this tax situation coming. Obviously, they knew they were going to pay Nikola Yokic. They went out and gave the extension to MPJ. Like, they had to see this coming. And like, come on, man, pay the damn tax.

I guess my question is, why give Porter considering his injury history, this extension in the fall, as opposed to waiting until the summer? Because the only real boogeyman waiting for you is that he'll sign an offer sheet to another team with unfavorable terms. But if I'm calculating the risk here, like, I don't know if that tradeoff is really worth it, considering he's already had two back surgeries. And Rob, you even had a piece going into this summer how he didn't seem quite right last year, one of his teammates saying that. So you had to know in some level that he could like encounter certain things

in the near future, if not in the long-term future. So I'm a little confused by that decision. Well, I think there is one other risk, which is you invoke a little bit of frustration on the players part, as we've seen in the past, if you don't give them that early extension. And I don't know if that's the motivation for this or not, but the Nuggets systematically are a day one,

extend our guys kind of organization. Like that's what they did with Murray. They threw tons of money at Jamal Murray more than people thought, earlier than people thought. That one worked out for them. It's not always going to work out. And this is the flip side of that committing early is you may have your guys, but if your guys have injury histories,

and the reporting as of now is that the Nuggets cleared him before the extension, they didn't see anything that would suggest this when they extended him. But you're going to get burned with some of this stuff if those guys have serious long-term injuries and you're on the hook for these massive contracts. So it's how they've chosen to operate as an organization is the short answer. And the payoff for that is the kind of good vibes, small market. We take care of our own mentality. And the downside is sometimes you're on the hook for massive contracts for guys with three back

surgeries already on the docket. Yeah, it just seems like the small market theme really just coming into play here. It's why Deer & Fox makes the max while he's averaging like 19 points a game right now. All right, let's cut it there, unless, Waz, you want to get in your commentary about the Beatles documentary? I don't have Disney Plus, and so I won't be watching. And yes, people, dorks at home. No, I don't do the Marvel. None of that shit.

I don't need Disney Plus, and I never will. Thank you. Don't get fired, please. Don't get fired. All right, let's cut it there. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. We'll be back next week. We'll see it.