The Ringer NBA Show - No More Nico in Dallas. Plus, Biggest Surprises So Far This Season. | Real Ones

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck discuss the Dallas Mavericks relieving GM Nico Harrison of his duties on Tuesday. The Mavs went from contending for a title in 2024 to trading their franchise player just months later, and they currently find themselves at the bottom of the Western Conference. How will the Mavericks clean up the mess that Harrison left behind? Plus, every team has now played at least 10 games this season. What have been the biggest surprises and disappointments, and who would you least like to be? 0:00:00 Intro 1:01 FanDuel ad break 2:00 Initial reaction to Nico’s firing 34:37 Biggest surprises 41:41 Biggest disappointment 48:06 Who Would You Least Like to Be Also, check out The Ringer's Michael Pina on Nico Harrison’s tenure as the Mavericks GM:https://www.theringer.com/2025/11/11/nba/nico-harrison-fired-dallas-mavericks. Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard BeckProducers: Victoria Valencia and Clifford AugustinAdditional Production Support: Ben Cruz and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Was popping, real ones. Logan Murdoch here, aka Logie Boone, the 2. Big news today with the firing of Nico Harrison by the Dallas Mavericks. Me, Roger Bell, and Howard Mother Beck. Get into it. All of the rumblings about the firing, including the statement by Patrick Dumont. Where do the Mavericks go from here? This is the question.

I have no idea. But I do think that personally that there is a path forward for the Maver's thinks it was the right thing to do. I think that just build around Cooper Flagg's. especially after that game last night against the bucks. I think the proof is in the pudding. Let me get into all of that. I just gave you my take there.

And then we got Cartier-Cliff coming in to give us a modified version of the show we were originally going to do, which is the first impressions of the first 10 games of the season. We get three questions of that. No mailbag today. I'm sorry, guys. The Nico Harrison stuff kind of messed up the show a little bit. But we will get to that next week. I think that's it.

Is there anything else? I don't know. Let's go. You're listening to The Ringer NBA show presented by Fandul. Fandul now displays your bet directly on your phone's lock screen. And with the latest updates to the live events and player pages, it's never been easier to be part of the game. And Missouri, get excited because Fandul's coming your way December 1st.

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Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell, there. Howard Beck and the motherfucking cut Cartier Cliff in a bit. All right, we got a little action-pack show for you guys today. We have our 10 game impressions. But first, we're going to talk about the long, long, path to the eventual firing that has happened today of Nico Harrison. Let's give some timeline before we get into what happened today.

2021, Nico Harrison is hired, set of basketball ops, succeeding Donnie Nelson, who left under some weird circumstances related to Luca Donchich and proceeds to, you know, build a contender, right? Builds a team that is primed to go to the 2024. NBA finals makes a few great trades to get Daniel Gafford drafts Derek lively and trades for Kyrie Irving seems that the Mavericks are on the up and up go to the finals and then he abruptly trades Luca Donchitz ahead of the trade deadline last year weeks ahead of the trade deadline didn't tell anyone didn't even do a bidding war this gives him away right for Anthony Davis says he wants

to have a defense-first mentality. And that seemed to start the clock on his eventual demise. The Mavericks inexplicably get the number one pick, Drake, Draft Cooper Flag. And the Fire Nico Chance still didn't subside. And that leads us to the beginning of this season where the Mavericks, everything that could go wrong, did go wrong.

Last year, Kyrie Irvin tears his ACL. And then Anthony Edwards, excuse me, then Anthony Davis gets, comes into camp out of shape. And Cooper Flag is thrusted into the point guard position where it does not go well. And now we are here a day after one of Cooper Flagg's best games of the season. Still fire Nico chance are permeating throughout American Airlines arena. And now Michael Finley. is going to lead the organization from a basketball office perspective. Howard, I'm going to start with you.

Where do the Maver's go from here? So the interim deal is actually Mike Finley and Matt Ricardy, who I just want to note here also because that front office, I don't know that had a lot of guys, once Dennis Lindsay left, who have a lot of front office experience. Matt Ricardy, Young, came from the Brooklyn Nets. so I know Matt a little bit. And so he and Finley, it sounds like it's going to be kind of the team approach in the interim.

Maybe they name one of those guys the permanent GM. Before we look back, I mean, you said, you know, like where they go from here? So yeah, let's look forward immediately. Give the Mavericks, I guess credit. Give Patrick Dumont credit, I guess, for realizing the mistake of the Luca trade, belatedly. You can't undo it. You can't fix anything. and you are where you are.

And so this would be a good time for whether it's listening to Mike Finley and Matt Ricardy. And, you know, Mike Finley, obviously great career in the league, most of it with the Mabs and smart, really smart basketball guy, Matt Ricardy, veteran of front offices. Like, listen to your front office guys who actually have a lot of NBA experience, unlike Nico who did not before taking that job. But also, you know, Dumas knew. So he doesn't know a lot of other people around the league. The hardest thing to do as an owner when you don't know anything about the NBA,

is figure out who to run your team because you don't know anything about the NBA. And sometimes it's just the closest person who you know or you trust and have some kind of NBA ties and then you appoint them. To be clear, Mark Cuban is the one who hired Nico before Dumont and his family took over. But still, you placed too much stock in his judgment in this case. So this is on you as the owner as much as it's on Nico Harrison. That's one. Two is as you move forward, you now have to figure out who do you trust? Who do you trust who actually knows the league? Because the next GM, whether it's Michael Finley, whether it's Matt Ricardy, whether it's a team approach, whether they're interim and you're hiring somebody else, whoever it is, however you do this,

you have to have a sober-minded view of where your team is right now. This is not a contender. This was not a contender from the moment you made the look at trade. I'm sorry, I don't care about defense wins championships. AD and Kyrie, if healthy, if, if, if, if. they were a non-contender the moment they made this trade. So realize where you are, you're a rebuild. You've got an incredible young prospect of Cooper Flagg. You've got some really nice young talent, including guys like Derek Lively, he's got to get healthy.

That's your future. It's not Anthony Davis and it's not Kyrie Irving. And it may not be PGA Washington and Daniel Gafford and whoever else and DeAnglo Russell. I would trade everybody but Cooper Flagg, or I'd be open to trading at least, everybody but Cooper Flag and Derek Lively. You are not a contender. You are not going to be a contender anytime soon. And you have some aging, injury-prone stars who if you can still get value for them, you should. Because you're not winning anything anytime soon on a Kyrie Irving Anthony Davis timeline. That's where the Mavericks

realistically are. And now that you've changed up your front office, fired Nico Harrison and are going to make a new hire, you have the opportunity to grapple with reality and choose a wiser pass forward. Yeah, I mean, I'm not mad at any of that. I came up here last pot talking about that timeline saying that I would not give up on it for next year if it were Kyrie, AD, Koup, Derek Lively Company. I still kind of maintain that, but if you were to say to me, hey, this is a fresh start and we'd like to make it because this front office isn't tied to this roster any longer and we see the need. I'm good with that. I'm okay with that too. It's weird.

I feel like the job itself is like a lot of these college football jobs where I might take a look at someone who's been there, done that. You know, a retread, if you will, Howard and Logan, somebody who just, they might not be, they might not have the top end potential as one of these young, like, masterminds. But I know they can get me to a certain level. Do you know what I mean? They can execute enough trades to get me violent. solid and on the right pass. And maybe he's not the guy that takes me to a championship, but he's the one that gets us back in solid good graces of the fan base,

playing good basketball, and then maybe the next higher wins the chip. I don't know. I was just thinking about it as you guys, as you were saying, you know, Dumont family doesn't have a great feel for the landscape of the NBA. And then who do you then trust if you don't know anybody in the league? And I'm like, man, maybe you just go out and get one of those retread guys.

the ceiling might not be as high as as as another one but you know the floor is really really high i understand that it's really hard for me to go against you ra but i think that like if you watch last night's game against um against the bucks you see everything that the mavericks should be doing right like anthony davis was out lively was out this was cooper flagged show and it was it was every he was everything raja that you love in him right he was he was running the floor, he was figuring stuff out, he was getting the ball around, he was throwing, making exciting plays. But more importantly, you could see him developing in real time, right? And I think that might be the best path forward here because it's going to be

really hard to, to your point. And I see where you're coming from on this, because it's going to be really hard to get off of Anthony Davis's contract. I think he has a player option. His contract goes until 28 is a player option for the 2728 season and I think he's making something like 62 million dollars bro and the anthony is not los angeles lakers anthony davis this is dallas mavericks anthony davis coming in out of shape looking about 10 pounds overweight looking like in your eyes russia someone who doesn't necessarily like care about the game and care about what he his role on the team as the best player um and so with that That being said, man, I'm down to just cut bait and be like, okay, AD, collect your checks.

This is all about the development of Cooper Flag because this is our only pathway out of this, right? Because there's so many uncertainties when you talk about Kyrie, who even at his best felt like more of a hired gun instead of like a number one option. He's a guy that can support and get you 40 points, but he's not necessarily somebody that you want to be leading a team. same with Anthony Davis, right? They were kind of two pieces in a pod when it comes to that. But I do think that this is a, this is a, an opportunity in an out for Dallas to be like, oh, we're just going to put all our ships on a table, Cooper flag, you can play all the point guards you want, you can develop, you can figure it out. We don't care about the wind total right now. We just care about methodically building a team around you. And they do have, like,

even if they get rid of, in a perfect world, if they get rid of Kyrie Irving, they get rid of Anthony Davis, they still have a really good roster around Cooper flag, right? When you talk about lively and when you talk about Gafford and you talk about PJ, who had a really good game last night until, you know, he missed them free throws, but like, what can you do? Right. He's not usually the guy you wanted to free throw line down the stretch. It just happened.

But I think they do have a really good group around him. One thing that I will say, though, about the Nico Harrison thing is I feel like when he got the job, there were necessary guardrails around. his crazy-ass ideas like trading Luca Donchitz, right? And methodically, you started to see those guardrails be taken out of place. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that, like, he was the face of, yeah, we drafted lively. We traded for Kyrie.

That was a really good move. But then, you know, the ownership change. Then Lindsay goes is not in the picture anymore, right? And then you start having, and then you have new ownership who was like. who doesn't really know about basketball. This literally was a land grab. And then he starts giving these ideas. And they're like, okay, whatever, do what you got to do.

We're trying to build a casino right now. And then you start seeing this. And then they start smart. The ownership starts smartening up and being like, hey, man, how are we going to sell this casino dream? We don't have like a generational face of the franchise. And then after the trade. And then it's like, oh, shit.

Now we've got to manage a team too. and I feel like when those I feel like it was a confluence of things that the guard rolls got taken off and the ownership got finally hip to a we actually have to run a business and by running a business is running a basketball team with competent people that's where I think that's where we we sit here Howard where do you stand on who they can hire right now right because do they do a search firm like how do you this is clearly an organization structure that doesn't know basketball. How do they go, how do they get from point A to point B? Because Finley always, and Finley always seemed like somebody that supported the front office and kind of just brought

that ethos similar to, I guess, uh, Udana's Haslam, right? He's a figurehead of like, what's the pulse of what a Dallas Maverick player is or not necessarily going out and getting guys. Where does the path forward here? I say this all the time. And the example, the best example I can always give is that when Vivek Grenadivei took over the kings, he hired Blade Divots, right? Vlade beloved former Sacramento King, good local ties, you know, admired in the community, and Vivek knew him. He was somebody he knew who happened to have played in the NBA and had a really good career. That's not enough. And this is the problem because these people come in, owners, they're all billionaires these days. They've had great success elsewhere. Some of them even think they know the NBA.

Hey, hello Matt Ishbia. Most of them don't know anything about the NBA or don't know enough or just think they know way more than they do. And so they make a bad hire. They might trust the wrong people or they themselves are not enough of a guardrail to use the term that you were using, Logan. So that's where Patrick Dumont and the Adelson family find themselves now. They inherited Nico, but they over-empowered Nico and didn't have enough guardrails around

or the know-how themselves to stop what became an absolutely. catastrophic trade. And that is why they are where they are right now. How do you fix that? So there is a search firm out there. I can't remember the headhunter firm, but that does these searches for you. And they know NBA people. And they will make the rounds and they will vet all these people and they'll try to find whether it's a, you know, somebody who's got experience, like Raja was alluding to, maybe David Griffin, who Raja worked with in Cleveland, you know, now, now free. Like, I think Griff would be really good for this job. If you want somebody new, you know, somebody's, you know, top lieutenant, a number two with a successful franchise, right?

Oh, let's see. Like the Thunder have had great success. Can we grab one of their guys or the spurs or the warriors or the heat, you know, look to the organizations that have had great success recently? But Patrick Dumas doesn't know that and he doesn't know these people and he doesn't know how to tell them apart. So the search firm would be one way. The other way would be if you're not going to elevate Michael Finley or Matt Ricardy, then then you've had enough time now to establish a relationship with them since you've been owner. Talk to them, trust them. Say, guys, we want to go outside the franchise. We think we need new leadership. You tell me, you guys work the phones every day. You are traveling all the time.

You are talking to other GMs and assistant GMs and personnel directors and others. Who out there's really sharp? You know, who's the next Sam Presti? Who's the next Messiah Ujiri? You know, like, that's how you do this. And if you're not, networked as the owner yourself, you're at a disadvantage. And he won't be. There's no way Patrick Jamont knows all these names, past or present, or certainly anybody's number twos. He probably can't name all 30 GMs. He certainly can't name their number twos. So that's where the search firm comes in or that's where you do rely on the guys you do have in your front office right now to give you the landscape. Roger, do players know like shit is hitting the fan?

What is the player dynamic right now throughout this season? I'm thinking about, I'm going to ask you two different types of questions. There's the player that is the Derek lively and, you know, the Anthony Davis who was invested in the long-term success of this team, right? And then there's also the newer guys or the younger guys that are, don't really know any better or other guys that are trying to just get a check and trying to, you know, provide. Put us in the mind of those three different types of players at this very moment.

What are they thinking, what is going on, and how do they salvage this or at this point? Yeah, well, yeah, that's a tough one. I would guess that you're older, longer in the tooth player that, you know, looking for championships supposed to be a part of a championship contending window that that Nico thought was open. That player is probably kind of nervous about what's going on right now. that player is understanding the situation that we're that we're talking about which is you know the guy that brought me here to do this fired fresh blood coming in and all the shakeup that could come with that uh you know timelines reset we know we got cooper flag obviously this is not it does

not played out the way anyone thought it would would play out and what does that mean for me moving forward um the guy just trying to provide for his family i don't think you're affected by this at all like it wouldn't have affected me. As I got older and I was more of a real, I want to be careful with my words here, I was more of an integral piece to the winning that we were doing as an organization. I would have had more going on with the general manager. There would have been more interaction. I would have had more of a personal relationship with them.

But when I was younger just trying to feed the family, get my next contract, put some good film out there. I didn't really care who the general manager was, nor did I see him or speak to him very often. It might have just been a hello in passing in the offices, but like that wasn't my focus. My focus was on the things that I just, you know, kind of said that it was on.

So for the young superstar in Cooper Flagg and, you know, the young pieces, the Derek Lively's and the Gaffords, like that, that is an interesting question. I've never been one of those guys. I think you're stable. I think it's not affecting your day-to-day that much, but there are going to be questions that you want answered through your agent, when this guy takes a seat, maybe at the end of this season,

in terms of the vision for what this is going to look like. You see this all the time with quarterbacks in the NFL. They are a general manager's guy. And when that general manager is no longer they, the next GM wants their guy. I don't think Coop fits into that. I think it's a little unique to quarterbacks in that way. I don't see it as a basketball.

Coup is a number one pick regardless of who the GM is. But there are other guys in there that you might want to know and you might want reassurances from the new guy that you're a part of the plan moving forward. Right? So like that locker room could be all over the place. But I talk about this all the time. At the end of the day,

no matter where I fall on that list, whether I'm an older guy of championships or I'm a young guy trying to feed the family or I'm a focal point of the organization moving forward. We're all pros. And we've all got to keep going out there every other night just about and continue to be pros and put the best product out on the floor.

Not just for the organization, but for ourselves. So, you know, they're All-Star Games. There's all rookies. There's rookie of the year. There are things that we all want to attain outside of the team success that clearly we're not going to have this year that we have to be focused on, you know, put in the best product out there to have the opportunity to do that.

And so that's got to be your focus in the short term. Like you really got to compartmentalize it and just go about your business as a pro. Yeah. Howard, I think, you know, it's funny. I think that one of the things that we're not talking about enough is the influence of Mark Cuban and all of this, right? And I know that he kind of puts on a face of like, well, what's me? This shouldn't have happened.

But all of this stuff directly goes back to Mark Cuban, and selling the team, right? Like, I know why he did it. I could see, you know, you see the check right in front of you. But I feel like there's a responsibility, especially somebody who is entrenched in Dallas, entrenched in Dallas lore in the way that he is, not only as an owner, but also as a figure there, right?

I feel like there is a responsibility for him. And maybe he got assurances, but they weren't in writing. But to vet the ownership group that's coming in, so shit like this doesn't happen. Right. And not only did he, you know, sell it to this, this new ownership, he also, you know, put, had this BS title of whatever he is and he couldn't stop the worst decision in franchise history. And I always going to put a face on it. But like, there has to be a responsibility in transferring of ownerships for shit like this not to happen, man. Right. If you're going to sell to a team, at least to sell is somebody responsible. I'm struggling with this one, Logan, honestly, because like, you know, owners are just stewards of these franchises, right? You don't actually own it. You're borrowing it.

You get it for a time and then either pass it on to your kids or you sell it or whatever. You're a steward. You're there for a time. And your job is to do the best you can and keep faith with the fans for the time that you have that team. Right. And, you know, Cuban's record is all over the map. But there's a championship in there. There's a lot of really competitive years in there.

They've been a lot of fun for the most part during his time. And when he decides that, time is over and it's time to sell, like how much can you account for what the person after you does with the franchise? Well, he seemed to be really invested in it as a person, right? No, listen, you're right. This is why I said I struggled with it, Logan. I'm not just missing your premise outright, but I'm just saying like, you know, look, Cuban's the one who did the whole Mavs fan for life thing. MFFL, hashtag MFFL, T-shirts, MFFL. You know, Mark Cuban was the first owner, I think, ever in the NBA, and certainly of my time covering this.

league for the last almost three decades to be like almost a mascot for the franchise. Like you, like you might not be able to name most of the owners in any given time, but you always knew who Mark Cuban was. You knew what he looked like, what he sounded like. You knew his t-shirts. You know he wasn't going to be wearing suits on the sideline. You knew that he was going to be long before Steve Balmer ever arrived, Cuban was going to be courtside with in every camera shot cheering on his team or screaming at the refs on occasion and doing other stuff. He brought that passion to it. And I think that that was largely a good thing, all other mistakes aside. And so when you do that, when you decide to identify yourself that closely with the franchise that you own, you run the risk of

Logan's position, which is you have a responsibility beyond as a businessman to look out for the best interest of the franchise even after it's not yours. And that's where I struggle because I think, like, No, during the period of time that he's the majority owner, everything is on him. He is identified with the franchise, good, bad, and otherwise. The moment you decide to sell, yeah, he should have got more assurance. He should have got it writing. He should have done more to convince the league office. Cuban claims he did do all these things.

But you lost control in a way that you were not anticipating or expecting or planning for when you made the sale. So you left the Mavericks vulnerable then. You left them vulnerable to a new ownership group that didn't know Jack about the NBA. In his defense, most new ownership groups don't know Jack about the NBA, as I was saying. They just want to be in the club. They just want to be in the club. Or they, in this case, you know, what a foothold for a casino in Dallas or whatever it may be. I just, I don't know that you can hang Patrick Dumont's mistakes on Cuban.

I do think if I'm going to blame Cuban for anything, it's that he, I think it was misplaced faith in Nico Harrison as a GM who had zero experience in an NBA front office. I thought it was a reach at the time. All due respect to Nico, who I've known a long time, I like Nico, but like, I thought it was a reach. There have been a lot of reaches, and sometimes they work out. Leon Rose was a reach, and it's worked out pretty well for the Knicks. And, you know, there have been any number of unconventional GMs who have been hired in the last 10, 15 years. Some have worked out, some haven't. This one did not.

I can appreciate where logo was coming from and Howard, what you're saying about Cubes. I live that with him. He was awesome, at least for a year I did. When I choose to downsize and all the kids are gone, and I'm ready to cash out, okay? And the new owner takes this house and paints it purple. Don't fucking call me. What if you have a 27%?

It's not my bank in the house. The HOA better enough me. They will paint it purple. That's Miami. You never know. They love the pastels, though. I hear you, Logan. But like at that point, I mean, you're saying, yeah, I mean, I've been in this

community since it was developed. What you're saying is I probably owe it to my neighbors to hold on to like some control so they don't do that. But like I, how would I know they would do that? I appreciate what you're saying. But I'm going to say this though. You can't have it both ways where you're not you specifically because I know what you. I hear you. You wouldn't have you wouldn't have kept you wouldn't have like sold 70% of the house. You would have been like bye I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. So Mark Cuban didn't sell 100% of the house. house is what I'm saying. Like if either you're going to be in it or you're not, that's what I'm saying, right? Oh, I feel you. And he chose, and he chose to have both his cake and eat it too. And I think

it blew up his face. And he's been, I mean, I think if I'm not mistaken, you guys could correct me. Like, he has had some critiques of what's going on and some frustrations about it, right? Like, and so they're in, yeah, I totally understand what you're making a joke, but like, yeah, he's distanced himself from it. And he has said that if he were still in charge, basically, the Luca trade would have never happened. And I believe him. I don't believe, I don't think Mark's talking out of his ass on that one. I think, I think that's true. I don't think in a gazillion years, Mark Cuban would have ever traded Luca Donchage. And he would have told Nico, hell no. I believe that. Um, irrelevant because you sold the team and the new guy didn't consult you on

this. And he should have. But again, I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm not holding Mark Cuban responsible for, uh, DeMont painting the Mavericks Arena purple. fair. Two, all right. I have a two for one question before we get to Cartier-A. Cliff. What is the lasting legacy of Nico Harrison? Oh, geez. And yeah, you too, Raz.

You got to answer this. I'm my answer last. And how confident are you in this mavericks, whatever it's situated as today going forward? Yeah, Nico's legacy will always be the guy, who gave away, you know, Luca Dantzic and set the franchise back, however many years it takes him to dig out of this hole, which brings me to the second part of that question, which, and my answer is I have zero, I have zero faith. And maybe that answer will change once they get

someone in place and I can go over his resume and, and his successes and be able to see the, the clearer path towards it. But until then, you know, you've got some nice pieces. I shouldn't say zero faith. There are some nice pieces in the cupboard, but like, I, The jury is out is a better way for me to answer that. I have no idea where you're going. To the case that Howard's been making this pretty much whole pod about, you know, Dumont and the family, like they don't know the NBA circles in that way. So I'd have to then have faith in them making the right higher.

There's a lot that has to go right for me to see you guys getting out of this in a relatively quick time frame. And so for that reason, yeah, I don't think I have a ton of faith in it until I see otherwise or that you give me reason. to feel otherwise. The problem when you make a trade that was as ill-considered and as catastrophic as the Luca trade is that it will be the only thing you're ever known for ever. And that's it like, you know, Nico's, you know, in his maybe mid-late 40s, he's been around the league a long time previously as a Nike executive and he had great relationships with Kobe and a bunch of other people. And like, that was what he was known for if you knew his name at all. Most NBA fans probably

didn't even know who he was until this job. None of that's going to matter. Like, It's unfortunate. I'm sorry. Like, you know, unless in his, you know, next iteration of his career, he like, you know, solves world hunger or something. It's going to be really hard to knock the Luca trade to the second line of his resume and his Wikipedia page. That's it's just, that's what he stuck with forever in NBA circles. And there's no way around that. He was the executive when they got to the NBA finals. and he and his front office made some really great moves that got them there,

but none that's going to matter. It's the Luca trade. And it's not just that he traded Luca. It's that you shouldn't have traded him. You shouldn't have traded him only to one team or had talked only with one team. You should have got more back. It's every single piece of it. And so, yeah, that's it.

In terms of where they're going from here, like, I think, I think Mavericks fans should feel good that in the near term, Michael Finley and Matt Cardi and whoever else is remaining in that front office are there. And I think that there are some smart basketball people there. I think they'll be fine. I think you have hope in the fact that the lottery gods, for whatever reason, decided to take you from 11th to one and get Cooper flag back in the spring. Like, you're not, this is not a barren situation. But it does take smart leadership to build around a Cooper flag and to do this right. And again, in my view, I don't think this is controversial at all, that's where you should be looking right now. That's where you should be

leaning. Lean into your future. The president is toast. If you can get anything at all for Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving in their oft injured states, you do it. Trade Clay Thompson, trade whoever, and just look to the future. I'll give Patrick Dumont credit for this much. The letter he put out to his fans a short time ago, which Mark Stein put out on social media a little bit ago, I think it's the right notes. It does not mention Luke and Dodgich's name. It does mention that the future had been bright and it isn't anymore. And quote, I understand the profound impact these difficult last several months have had. Please know that I'm fully committed to the success of the Mavericks. Thank you for your support for holding us accountable. Like those are the right notes to hit. Says you deserve transparency. The team that reflects your spirit. He's hitting the right notes. He's saying the right things. But, you know, actions not words. And let's see who they hire and where they go. First bit of advice for Nico. Go to the beach.

Go to an island. Get far, far away from here. No internet. Get a tan. Get some Plinicaladas, you know. No internet, no sales service. Just, you know, be like Raja, how he is every spring on this podcast. You know, just beautiful beaches and just some coffee, you know, just get out of Dodge.

And also not responding to text. Throw away your phone. Throw it in the ocean. It's okay. Get a paper ticket and just hold that in your luggage and just have your identification. Yeah, man, he's going to be, this is what he's going to be known for forever and ever and ever and ever. And, you know, it's hard to be like, man, I can't let this define you, man. Don't let this break.

It is going to define you no matter what. So just get out of Dodge. It just be with your family. I think, I'm a little optimistic, though, about the Mavericks, though. Like, everything you saw last night should give you optimism going forward about what you should. It's very cut and paste what you should do, bro. Just build around Cooper Flag. Like, that's really all it is.

Have him develop. The wins don't matter this season. Be patient. Pick the right person. Really do your due diligence. This season was a wash anyway, right? Like, I think that's something that we talked about in the beginning of the season with this podcast, which is the only person I really had expectations was Nico Harrison.

And if you looked at the roster, you were like, nah, bro. Like, this is for Cooper Flag to develop. Everybody get the hell out of the way. And now they have the perfect opportunity to do that, right? Just start from scratch. I think the Mavericks will be okay. The path is right there and it's right there forward and it's clear as day. I think they will be okay if they don't try to do stupid trades to build a contender tomorrow.

Just methodically build a contender around Cooper Flagg because he is the dude. and the gravitational pull is there. Mavericks would be okay. They finally made the move they should have been made. Provided, provided they get the right person in that seat. Because all you're talking about and all Howard and I are talking about like that, that's not just a foregone conclusion. Like you have to have someone that knows how to execute and, you know,

maneuver in those circles. So that hire is going to tell you, the hire is going to tell you what you need to know. Yep. Let's take a quick break. Cardi A Cliff on the other side. And we are back. Cardi Cliff is in the building. What we got, Cartier Cliff? Fellas, fellas, fellas, what's good? Howard Beck was good. Raj was good. Lolo was good, man. So far, we've seen every team play 10 games this season, some surprises, some disappointments. Logan's an MVP pick for Victor Wimba Yama's looking pretty good. So we got a couple categories. You got to speed through here, you know, as Beck likes to do. You know what I'm saying? So let's get through the first category here. Who has been the biggest surprised in the first 10 games of the season?

I want to go to Raj on this. Rajah, I want to hear you. The biggest surprise. Are we talking about player, team? It was open to interpretation. Open to interpretation. It was open to interpretation. It's an open book.

Ah, man, tough. I think player for me might be Josh Giddy. They just looked really, really good. and with a bigger role and more freedom in Chicago. He didn't play last night. They looked good. I liked him. I ultimately went with the Detroit Pistons.

You know, obviously Cades playing great, Jalen Duren. Their defense is just fantastic, good pickups in the offseason. Duncan and Kairis Lever. I think, you know, them setting the pace in the Eastern Conference, although I thought it would be just kind of open at the upper tier of the Eastern Conference, them coming out of the gates and setting the pace right now for me is the biggest surprise, I think, in a good way.

Lo, who's your biggest surprise so far? I think my biggest surprise right now is, it's not really a surprise, to be honest. I had the Pistons, but Roger took my shit. I'm going to have a whole thing for the Pistons. Detroit Basketball. I'll add on to what I think for the Pistons. I think they're doing really good.

I think Cade is kind of coming into his own. But when you think about it, though, like this is kind of what you want to see right out of a team yeah no doubt like so on one hand it is a surprise at their top of the eastern conference but on the other hand it's like yo if kate is that dude and finally coming into his own this is what you want to see this is what the pistons are is what you wanted to see out of the magic right just an organic um ascension into uh the conference but you know for i could say the bulls because you know like they've done good and joss giddy has done good but like I'm not going to get into the rigmarole of what we do

because I feel what we tend to do at the ringer and what we tend to do as a NBA media apparatus at this time of the season when it's about to be the dog days. But like anoint teams and I feel like the Bulls are the team that is getting anointed at this point. And same with Josh Giddy. And I'm like, they're still hovering around 500 at this point, you know, especially after they lost.

And Josh Giddy looks good at the contract that he's in, but do you want to give him 35? million dollars or 45 million dollars or whatever he could command if he continues to this happen it's the same austin reeves question so that's me doing the poo-poo on the on the Chicago Bulls after watching them last night um but what I will say is what I I'm gonna I just want to bring this team up the Houston Rockets um and I know they're not they were expected to be good this season but after what we saw after the Van Blit injury the big question that me Howard and raja had after the opening week was how are they going to find

offense without the point guard, even if it's at the expense of KD playing a lot of point guard and Shangoon playing a lot of point guard. Guess what? They just did it. They're like, fuck it. We're going to play Shangoon and point guard, put his back to the basket. We're going to do the same thing we did in the playoffs last year. KD, you're going to get the ball down the stretch. You're going to play some point guard. I'm in. You're going to figure it out too. Reed Shepard, you're going to come along. You have had some good games and some games, but we're just going to figure it out and we'll see if we trade for a point guard down the stretch, but they have the best offense in the league despite not having that point

guard. It speaks to how great of a coaching job, MAU doca has, MAU doca has done. It speaks to the buying of Kevin Durant, who's been playing really well. It speaks to Shangoon. And I've been pleasantly surprised at what I've seen with the Rockets. And I hope that they, you know, continue to ascend. And I, you know, if they get a, they do get a point guard. I don't know who that is. Is that Kobe White, do they take a chance on Tray Young? Do they, I hope they don't take John Morant, but did they get John Morant? Who knows? But I think they, it doesn't have to be a star point guard.

This has to be a point guard to kind of just manage the floor. But I think they'll be fine. I've been pleasantly surprised with their offense because I thought there was going to be a lot more growing pains and they just said, fuck it, we're just going to do whatever the best offensive players can do, we're just going to let them be them and we'll figure out the rest. And I think that MAs done a great job with that group. Beck? My first impulse here was going to be like bulls and giddy, which you guys both kind of alluded to. And I do think, look, just to touch on them real quick before I give a different answer,

like the bulls have cooled off after that five and oh start. I think they're coming back to Earth in a way that that makes sense. I think they're settling in where we thought they'd be, which is probably going to be hovering around 500. I don't, you know, nobody I don't think thought they were going to actually be leading the east or be, you know, top four in the east when all is said and done. But they did find something in Josh Giddy. That Caruso Giddy swap looks a lot better now than it did at the time. And the deeper that Giddy goes, being able to shoot threes at a decent rate, shooting 38.5% now, career high, it looks pretty good. He's nearly averaging a triple double, 21 points, 9.5 rebounds, 9.3 assists. Like all that bodes well for the Bulls because

you can't really build a sustainable upper playoff team until you've got guys you know you can build around and Giddy's looking like a fundamental piece. That's great. But my answer for this one's going to be the Bucks. I like a lot of people, not that I was down on the Bucks, I didn't think they were going to fall out of the playoffs or anything. As long as you've got Janus, you're going to be a force. But, you know, Ryan Rollins has popped. And some other young guys have kind of like shown some good signs. And this is like not a great roster. And Miles Turner's not even playing all that well. but Janus is kicking everybody's ass and there's seven and four in a three-way tie as we as we record this in a three-way tie with Cleveland and Miami for third best record in the east like they're

right there and I'm not I'm not shocked and I'm not even all that surprised but a little bit because after Janus it's a pretty steep drop off there in talent level and there's a good reason why we were all spending the summer speculating about Janus's future he has he has shoved that to the back burner with his play and his teammates are helping him out in that regard. Like Kyle Kuzma looks like an NBA player again. Hallelujah. You know, A.J. Green's looking good. Ryan Rawls looking great. Like, it's an impressive start with a pretty unspectacular supporting cast. Hey, I got to say this though real quick. This is this roster, aside from Janus, is kind of Doc Rivers' bag.

Right. Like, you think about the 2018-2019 Clippers where, like, who are? are these guys over here who are who are these players why are they playing so well out of nowhere this is what this is kind of where doc reverts flourishes where he has where he has to develop guys and he overachieves he is he is a great overachieving coach i think um with some with some championship pedigree but like i think when he's in this type of predicament this is when he thrives the most so i just want to give doc a shout out as well what's the who what's the next segment cliff next category is biggest Raj again. Gotta toss it to you, buddy.

Do you think it's the biggest disappointment so far? His biggest disappointment is that Nico got fired and he had to talk sign. Yeah, like the Nico's my guy. Shit. Yeah, Nico used to look me out when nobody would look me out. Do you have friends, Howard? Do you defend those friends? Damn right.

Yeah. Let's see. Biggest disappointment. Player team, probably the LA Clippers. Probably the Clippers. They've, they, they, I mean, I don't know where I had them falling in the Western Conference, but they just look, they look old. They don't look like, they do, right?

Like, they look old. I mean, they are old. What are they, what are they in the league? They got to be a top five. They're the oldest team in the league. Yeah, I think before the season they were the oldest team. They're old. They look old.

I mean, yeah, they're terrible defensively. That used to be what they were kind of about. I mean, they had obviously, you know, Kauai and Zubach and Hardin that were good offensive players. But I think Norman Powell, the Norman Powell thing hurt them. Yeah, be the clippers, dude. Like, I'm not going to get all long-winded and shit. They just look old.

They don't defend. I love T. Liu, man, but, you know, I talk about it sometimes when you're looking around and you're wondering if the messaging is still hitting the same way, you know, like, that's, I hate to say that, but they'd be my biggest disappointment. Lolo, biggest disappointment so far. I was going to go with the Pelicans, but I mean, did we really, you know, I know I thought just because I picked him to be my sleeper and Howard also picked him to pick them to be his sleeper, I guess we kind of have to say to Pelicans.

But like in the back of our minds, you guys ask sleeper in the back of our minds, we knew what it was, right? We kind of like. It was a little bit of wishcasting. It was a little wish casting, right? Then we saw the first couple of games who were like, what the fuck? And also the real ones,

the one thing I love about the real ones, they always call us out. They were like, are you serious about this Pelicans pick? Every time we dropped a podcast, they've been saying that. But no, I'm not going to go with the Pelicans because it's kind of expected.

I'm going to go with the Hawks, right? And more specifically, I think. And they're doing good. So we're doing good or better now. But of all of the expectations, that we had, particularly in this Western conference. And we just talked about the Bucks and how they're overachieving. And this conference, if you don't overachieve and how barren and weak this conference is,

something is wrong with your team, right? And I think that we've seen that with the Hawks. I think the Trey Young situation is kind of probably hit his seen us. And I think we, in a good way, we know that the Hawks know who they are at this. point and kind of have a similar to what we talked about with the Maver's kind of know what the path forward is here. I think the writing is kind of on the wall with with Trey. And, you know, next year, you know, they got the Pelicans pick. So they could build around, they could build around what they have without Trey Young. I mean, he's probably going to play because of his

player option. But like, they can either trade him, get him out and just start fresh with a new friend office. I think they're doing good. But in terms of this season, I think the Hawks have been a big disappointment. And, you know, this kind of is what it is. We had real high expectations. You can also, I don't know who Howard's pick is, so I'm just going to not just take everything, but I would say the Hawks for me. Yeah, the two top teams on my list of the two of you guys just named, but just to add on both. So the Clippers, look, I said they were a 50 win team because they were a 50 win team last year, and I thought, I thought they only got better. Like they did trade Norm Powell. It's now I'm wondering how that was a mistake, if not even just for production purposes,

has been phenomenal in Miami. I missed a few games, but he's been great. Was it a chemistry thing, too, right? Was there just something about Norm Powell being like a consummate kind of glue guy who can also like do more than just be a glue guy? I also put up some points and run the offense at times. But they won 50 plus or they won 50 games with Kauai missing almost the, you know, whatever, two thirds of the season.

They're one game away from being dead. Yeah, they bring back everybody except Norm Powell. They add John Collins. They had Brooke Lopez. They had, you know, the ghost of Bradley Beal and, you know, Chris Paul. And Chris Paul, like, none of those guys needed to do big things for them. They just needed to, like, make them that much deeper and more versatile. I thought for sure, 50 plus wins is back on the table.

I had Ty Lewis by preseason coach of the year. So, like, by far considering my own projections, the clippers are the biggest disappointment sitting here at three and seven right now tied with the jazz and the kings. Ugh. But yeah, shout out to the Pelicans in this, too. because, yeah, you look at it. Like, they're going to end up being one of those consummate, like, look back years from now and go, like, I don't get it.

I look down on paper and I'm like, Zion Williamson, that guy was super talent. And Trey Murphy is really good. Herb Jones. Like, there's all this, like, there's decent talent there. And it's just like, they're just like less than the sum of their parts. There's just something amiss. Oh, speaking, back to the Clippers, speaking of something amiss. So I talked to somebody recently who had some insights there, who basically said, like,

he does think the aspiration stuff is really hanging over that team. Like I thought that would be more of a front office thing, right? If the, if the Kauai aspiration cap circumvention scandal was anything, it would be something for the front office to deal with. I didn't think that would like leach into the locker room. But it's been suggested to me that that is in fact having an impact on just kind of the spirit of the team. Not to mention like, yeah, there's been like lawyers going through the offices, like, you know,

going through whatever, I guess laptops and text messages, whatever, whatever the the uh walk tell lipton search entails it's involving some you know some uh you know guys having their stuff gone through not the players obviously the front office but yeah uh or as as the person put to me it's not a serene place at the moment so maybe that's all seeping in um and maybe once again this is just karma taking its course interesting stuff there however there's always one with the information i love it uh let's get to the final category here who would you least like to be at this point of the season. Approximately 10 games in, who would you least like to be?

Raj, would you least like to be, man. Hey, my man. Yeah, I don't know, dude. I passed. Nah, I mean, there's some pretty bad records out there with, to be some miserable kind of locker rooms to be in at one and nine. But ultimately, I think I'm going to take the team that we talked about last pod, Logan, and say just the Memphis Grizzlies

because of the dissension between their head coach and their franchise player and just the mess that that seems to be. Yeah, I mean, do I need to elaborate on it? I mean, when you have a role player or somebody that's less meaningful to your organization sideways with a coach, And the organization, that's one thing.

When it's the face of the franchise, a guy like Jha, and then, you know, this is a new hire type of situation. This is immediate and it's sideways like that already. It's fundamental. It's at its core. I just think that's messy and it makes for a bad locker room more than anything, right? Like you could be a bad team record wise and it would be counterintuitive, but you might still have good vibes. Like cats are playing hard. You're young.

You haven't figured out how to win yet. Like you could, from the outside, you might look at that and be like, oh, that's a shit show. And if you ask guys inside, they'd be like, no, we're good. Like, we don't know how to win, but we're fine. Like, we got guys that are developing on the fly show and promises young players. Like, but when that locker room is shitty, that's a, that's not a cool place to be. So for those reasons, I'd say, I'd say, I'd Memphis. Well, who you got?

I mean, it's pretty simple here. Steve Balmer. I hate to be Steve Palmer right now. That would suck. You bought this team, right? Very clearly, like, no matter how much money you pump into it, no matter how many things that you do that you think are innovative, no matter how much you grandstand about how innovative you are,

you know, the shit just starts fucking up for you. Every time, right? You get Kauai Leonard, you get Paul George, the team that you traded with. wins a title off of all of your picks, right? Then, you know, you have the, um, aspire situation, right? Which, I,

what's also, Howard, I'm not really, um, surprised that it's seeped into the locker room, considering the team's best player is involved, is involved in it, allegedly,

or is definitely somebody, that dude, that dude's an android. Like, he doesn't have any, like, when did you not see Kauai actually have any feelings or express, like, concern or something?

No, but here's the thing, though, that's what he expresses to us. We don't know him. And the locker, he's like, guys, I'm really worried about this thing. No, no, no, we just don't know what's going on in his head. We just don't know what's going on in his head, right?

Like, and so, like, I'm not surprised that it's steeped into the locker room, but then you have that. And then they don't own their, I mean, I know this, but they don't own their own first-round pick until 2030? Or no. And I think 20-29 is top three protected. So their 20-28 pick is to Philly. geez, Cliff is out here just smiling so so much right now, right? But like on top of that, you have this, this Experian case all over you. And then you're going to have even more eyes on the incompetence of the organization.

This in February, when the All-Star game, all people are going to be talking about during the All-Star weekend is what's going on with the Clippers. And all we talk about when it comes to the Clippers is how bad things have gone for them. And for all of the resources and all the things and everything that Steve Balmer has hit us over the head with, they've only done it for to be average. And, you know, I would hate to be that. That would suck. I'm surprised Howard or in Ronson, nobody picked the magic. And maybe that's because Desmond Bay hit a three last night to win the game. But the magic have been very, very disappointing.

Howard didn't go yet. No, no, that was the last one. Biggest disappointment. Oh, I got you. I got you. I got you. Biggest disappointment. So the magic should be in there.

I just want to acknowledge that as such. But yeah, that's what I would least like to be. The magic are mostly a disappointment to our colleague Michael Pina, who overestimated. Bo, I've got to say real quick, hold on real quick. I hate the fact that every time we bring up Michael Pina on this podcast is because of a take that didn't go his way. When the last time he got a take right? Because he keeps, he keeps putting his, when Michael Pina picks something, I get scared. He picked the clippers the last two years

I've legitimately scared And then this clipper shit happens right He's picked them right Then he picks the magic His pick is like the kiss of death Pena you know I love you bro But Jesus Pina's my guy

I like to tweak him over this stuff I'm shout out to Michael Pina I know I got some bad takes But damn Pina I have always been a bit of a magic skeptic And Pina has long been a Magic Optimist So we're just on opposite sides

of how we view the build of that team. But yeah, like they've definitely been a disappointment. Who would I at least like to be at this point other than, I don't know, anybody associated with the Mavericks or Nico Harrison himself or anybody involved in the gambling saga, anybody involved in the cap circumvention saga. I wouldn't want to be Adam Silver, who now has to deal with two major scandals, one cap circumvention, one gambling. But team-wise, I'd least like to be the Sacramento Kings.

Let's go! Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry, my bad. You're a little too excited about that, Logan. Hater. They're three and seven. One of their only wins is against the Jazz. They did beat Milwaukee.

They did beat the Warriors. 23rd in offensive rating. 27th in defensive rating. 26th in net. They got this wonky-ass roster of mostly like older past their prime vets. DeRose and Levine. Westbrook. They got too many guys

need the ball in their hands. Sabona, Shrewd or Monk, in addition to DeRosen, Levine and Westbrook. One of their more promising young players, Keegan Murray, give him a huge extension. He gets hurt. He's not playing. They're not a playoff team,

but they're also not a team with a bunch of great young prospects that you can, like, build around. There's no franchise star here. Sabonis is a good co-star, but he's not a number one. They don't have cap room until probably 2027. I just don't even know where you go from here if you're the Sacramento Kings. I feel bad for Kings fans.

They got the tease of the one breakthrough season. And then everybody's gone who had anything to do with it, almost everybody. Deerrin Fox, Mike Brown, front office. It's just, it's sad. Kings are depressing. I'm sorry. That brought us all down. Except for Logan who's giddy about this.

I went to the game on Friday, bro. No, it's just, it's laughing to keep from crying because I went to the game on Friday against OKC. And this was a, this was a lineup that the Kings tried it out. Demarta Rosen, Russell Westbrook, Eubanks, Zach Levine and Dennis Schroeder, which is something that I never thought I would see in 2025. And that happened. But, but real quick, though, because I'm glad that you guys are both on the line here, because Raja on Friday, he was flying high, baby. It was right after that Warriors game, and Russ had that triple double, and he balled out, and he was ready to gloat. I want to give you the opportunity to gloat again, Roger.

But Russ in 16 minutes, his last game against the Timberwolves two nights ago, six points, two of seven shooting, two of five from the field, one assist, zero rebounds, one still in a block. Yeah. What? How many minutes? 16 minutes. Yeah, bro, what you want to be doing 16 minutes? Don't what you're like, he's 40 some years old, bro. I'm like, yes, that's what's going to happen sometime, right?

I'm not telling you he's MVP Russ. Okay, do you want to gloat for Howard right now because Russ is, you know, letting Russ cook or like? Nah, I'm not, this isn't a gloating campaign for me, man. I'm just, just happy my dogs in the league right now, Dodd. Like, yeah, come on, man. For a dude, like, can we, can we agree that, like, for at least a while there,

what he, what he meant to the NBA and what he was doing at the NBA was, like, right? Like, he should be in the league. finish his career, I am happy for Russ. I'm just sad that it got to be a Sacramento, but also like, you know, hey, Sacramento did him a solid. That's a bet. Sack did him a solid. They did him a solid.

And like, you know, if recent history, you know, with Russ and teams, and the words coming out of those locker rooms suggest like anything, he might have had something to do why a team like Sacramento is where he is going to be. But like,

I'm just happy he's there. Rustin at King's Jersey is Patrick U.S. in a Sonics jersey. It's just fucking weird. And like Ewing had not been anywhere else before he started bouncing around after the next trade him. But like Russ has been a bunch of places. It's just never looked as weird as Russ and the Kings.

Yeah. It's like a graveyard for players, bro. Especially, yeah, especially this version of the Kings, right? Like a couple years ago, you would have, it would have been like, oh, this is like the fun Kings. But like it's one of the many, many sad versions of the Kings. So of all the places to finish. Jersey at this time.

Just top to bottom, but it's just a bottom. I think it's the worst organization in the league right now. I'd rather be in the nursing home than not in the nursing home, if you can dig what I'm saying. Okay. Like, you know what I mean? Like progressions of like going from home to the nursing home to the next stop,

I'd rather be in a nursing home. I just feel for Russ. I just feel for Russ because in his first presser with the Kings, they asked him like, yo, man, or alluded to this probably being his last season and he said,

I got more seasons to go and I just want to go. Oh. So when I put my arm on the shoulder, there's still time for him to play for the pelicans. That would be the only other team that will take him after this, bro.

Remember, Raja, remember when Russ declined his option and he were like, oh yeah, there's something back on here and I was trying to tell you like, yo,

this might be it for Russ. And if the Kings didn't show up, this probably was it for Russ. that was all the way off the mark on that Russ yeah Russ you hey in this one yeah brother enjoy this one and let's go out let's go let's say Blades of glory baby

Let's go out on our own bro let's go out on our own I'm not gonna lie on on Friday on Friday though He hit four threes and it was like And he was just talking shit and I was like there he is Yes there he is yes We're tired the next day Cliff how you feeling man are you good Are you okay?

Yeah everything's good Everything's good Yeah, you're good. Okay. Big win for the Eagles last night. You know, Sixers split against Detroit or split against Detroit and Toronto. So, you know, things are going well in Philly, man. Okay.

All right. All right. I just want to have some optimism after that Russ conversation because, God, that was sad. All right. That has been another addition of Roe ones. I promise we had a whole other show for you guys. But then Nico Harrison news just came and we had to pivot. So, you know, maybe 20 games in.

We'll have our 20 game impressions and we'll do a full show about our impressions. with all the similar categories. And a mailbag, which we also had to scrap today. Sorry to our friends who send us thoughtful emails. Yeah, yeah, that only Howard reads. Okay, see you guys on Friday. Me and Rajabel there. Thank you to Howard motherfucking back.

We'll see you guys on Friday with me, Raja, Cliff, Victoria, Big BV. I'm Logie Boo, not the two. See you on Friday, all the shits. Bye. What's the 21 years older and present in select states for Kansas An affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit RGELP.com.

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