The Ringer NBA Show - No One Wants to Play for Team USA. Plus: Rookie Survey Takeaways | The Mismatch

Episode Date: August 20, 2019

De’Aaron Fox joins the long list of Team USA dropouts for the upcoming FIBA World Cup, so how does the current team stack up against other countries’ squads (0:45)? Plus: The 2019-20 rookie class cast some surprising votes for superlatives among their peers (22:11). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to the Ringer podcast network. NFL preseason is in full swing and the Ringer NFL show is now airing four shows each week covering the latest news stories, training camp updates, fantasy football advice, and more. On the site, Robert Mays, Kevin Clark, and Danny Kelly offer up their insight on the 2019 season as we inch closer to kick off. You can read their pieces on the Ringer.com and you can listen and subscribe to the Ringer NFL show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.A. Kevin O'Connor

Kavanaugh! Verno! What's going on tonight, man? Well, we have had Team USA going on recently, and that has been the majority of the NBA news that has come out over the course of the past week since we have last spoken. Team USA is going on to the World Cup. I guess they are going to head to Australia first, and they are going to play a couple more exhibition games. But last week saw more reports of them getting beat by the select team, which is filled with a bunch of young players, and then getting beat by a collection of G-League standouts. And so everybody was a little bit nervous, but then they played an exhibition against Spain and handled Spain. And Spain had Marcus, Spain had Sergio Lull, Spain had Ricky Rubio,

the Hernon Gomez kids. I mean, there was guys on that Spain team for sure. And Team USA looked pretty good, but then the stories become more of the headlines are about who has pulled out of playing for this team USA and the World Cup. And the latest is, well, I guess let's track back.

We have PJ Tucker first. And then the latest is Deerran Fox, which, I mean, by all accounts, Fox has been one of the massive. massive standouts throughout this entire process. And I was really hoping to see him on the team when they get to the World Cup because I'll watch the World Cup just to see how they do. They've got USA across their chest.

And certainly with all the reports about Deerrin Fox, I wanted to see if he is really taking a big leap as many seem to believe how good he looked. And so it's kind of a shame, you know, this was not going to be star-studded, to say the least. but now some of the good young players and two of those kings, Bagley and Fox, have decided to go home. And I don't know, that's kind of the fun part to me, right, is these young guys playing on the team. For sure.

And I think from a scouting standpoint, it would have been great to see someone like De Aaron Fox. And I know everybody's talking about how weak this team USA roster is compared to past years. However, for Fox, how many minutes were there really for him when you're looking at fact that Kemba Walker is going to be the primary ball handle on that team. Donovan Mitchell will be getting a lot of playmaking opportunities. Then other than that, Derek White is a superior defensive player and a superior shooter. Marcus Smart is a more versatile superior defensive player as well. And then Chris Middleton playing wing and Joe Harris will be playing

a lot of because they need shooting and spacing. That's the one thing they don't have a lot of on this team is shooting. So for Darren Fox, to me it made sense for him. There's just a drop out and focus on the coming season. There's no reason to risk injury. And besides, considering the makeup of this guard-heavy roster, I'm not so sure it made a lot of sense for him to stick with the rest of the way. Kind of interesting, too. I do think we can draw from this.

And Brian Winhorse has done a very good job reporting on everything that's gone on with Team USA was that Tray Young, by all accounts, looked absolutely unbelievable while he was there. And in fact, that select team, which had handled the big team a couple of different times, that switched up once Trey Young was out. I mean, he was that good for that select team. And he had this eye infection that he dropped out for, right? But to read the Brian Winhorse reports, that was only after he found out that Derek White had been promoted to the senior team ahead of him. and Deerrin Fox in the game the other night, he only plays six minutes against Spain.

And again, it's Derek White. And so you do kind of wonder if these guys saw the writing on the wall and maybe there's a little preferential treatment going on. I mean, you'd love to believe that Greg Popovich is just going to take the best player no matter what. But to hear the stories, it was kind of as if, you know, Trey Young made that decision after he heard that Derek White had been promoted. and now we have the Fox thing

and Fox was playing less minutes and maybe he thought Derek White's going to get on that team or maybe, you know, look, if Aaron Fox plays 20 minutes in the Spain game, he probably doesn't go home. You know, I mean, these guys,

I think Bagley probably felt the same way. It's like, yeah, I could make the final roster. They're probably going to keep me. But, I mean, am I going to go over to China and just sit on the bench the entire time? I think these guys looked at it and said, if I'm going to be on this team, I want to play on this team. And if I'm not going to get to play, then I don't know if I want to spend the next month in Australia and then China after that to play for this team.

So who knows, but good for Derek White, I guess, unless he gets cut. They still got to cut it down from 14 to 12. And it looks like it's going to come from White, Lopez, Jalen Brown. Marcus Smart didn't play any against Spain. So he was out with an injury. I think at the hamstring injury of him or correctly for that game. Do you do when it comes to the decision with this roster, can you really blame Popovich, though, if he's going with the guy that he knows that he can rely on in Derek White,

the guy that he has two years now of experience communicating with, that he knows he can plug and play him in certain roles. And oh, by the way, Derek White's a really good player, a reliable playmaker, a shot maker, and a really, really stellar defensive player. It's not like it's picking the coach's son. here who has no business being on the team. Derek White, considering the makeup of this roster, is very deserving of a spot on it.

Boy, is the opinion of Derek White shot up. You know? I always like Derek White. I mean, come on. He's not Deeran Fox. Jeff. Let's get serious. I mean, if you're talking about building out this roster, though, it's not always about who the best player is. And this is true for NBA roster building as well.

So for Team USA, in a vacuum, Darren Fox might be a better player than Derek White, but for Team USA for your fourth guard, maybe it's not the ball handling presence that you need a Fox. Maybe it's instead the higher-end defensive ability and versatility that Derek White provides in that player. Maybe so. Clearly, and listening to Bill talk about this over the course of the past couple of podcasts, he has talked about and has given tremendous evidence that this can really help guys. going forward, the experience of playing around other great players, drawing from them, the experience of hearing a different coach's voice can really have an impact on them going forward. And there's a lot of different cases of guys playing their best basketball after playing for Team USA.

And we think about Deerrin Fox. We think about Marvin Bagley, Sharon Jackson Jr., Trey Young. So many of these young guys that are not on the senior team. and yet got that experience of being there. And then you have a bunch of young guys still on the senior team, the Jailens and the Jason Tatum's, even the Kimball Walker. And there's some also players that don't play for the Celtics, too,

I think, on this. Dude, it's pretty weird how there's four of them. Right. So anyways, it can have an impact. And I will tell you that I watched the scrimmage between Team USA and that select team that they ran on NBA TV. And I mean, there's a couple of guys. And the biggest was Bagley.

When I was watching that, I thought to myself, my God, this guy looks ready for a breakout. And I would be so excited if I were a Sacramento Kings fan to have Deeran Fox and Marvin Bagley. Those two guys in back-to-back drafts, another pair of guys, you know, under the age of 23. and we've got these all across the league, these young duos. But those two, everybody was raving about Fox, but I'm telling you, Bagley was everywhere, Kevin. Like there was just no way you could watch the game and not notice him and his level of activity. And these guys start to really grow into their bodies. You know, you remember that they're only, you know, 19, 20 years old and that they're still becoming whoever they're going to become.

But I think Bagley's ready for a massive breakout. really do this upcoming year. And it may fall in line with a huge Fox breakout too. And so that was the one thing that really stood out from watching that to me and watching these young guys perform in that is like, my goodness, that duo with healed on the outside. I mean, they're going to have to screw that up for it to not end up being fantastic. And then the one guy that often gets overlooked is Bogdan Bogdanovich. For sure. Who just had a big game for the Serbian national team as well. Just the other night, I believe, scoring. scoring 27 points of whom I remember correctly in a win over Lithuania. And granted, it's just Lithuania, but Serbia is one of those teams. If you're looking past the USA for someone who can win this tournament, Serbia is often the second favorite.

You have U.S. On Bovada, for example, USA is minus 250. Serbia is second at plus 400. And you look at that team with Yokic on it, with Bogdanovich, they're a strong contender to actually make a run at those things. But to me, like, Chris, I think you've got to go with. the team with the best player on it with Janice, Ennaz Sainzano,

Kumpo. Greece, to me, with Yannis, is the real threat here to knock off. Interesting. Interesting, because it's not like, right, they've got that guy, but it's not like you look at the rest of their team and it's a who's who or that they're loaded,

but they've got possibly, I mean, they certainly they got the reigning MVP, right? Exactly. On their team. And so if you got, got the rating MVP and all his brothers his brothers are pretty good guys well players as well it's just all on to the coupos is that what it is when you

look at the when you look up and down the roster it's just yeah yeah exactly yonis and the honest hey nic calathe's i'm familiar with him papa gianus got a cup of coffee right didn't he didn't he well he need that guy that the king's drafted yeah popi annas uh yeah that was the shocking pick of the drafts yes nicolathes is good And Nicolaita's had a damn good career over in Greece. He was just playing for Rick Petino's team. So they got some players to go along with Janus. And Janus looks like, I mean, good grief.

Every time I see a highlight come across, I haven't watched Dries yet, but I see those highlights that get posted on social media. And I'm like, don't get on everybody. The dunk he had in transition, or it looked like it was impossible for him to dunk, and then he somehow managed to stretch his arm out. Yes.

that's why he has a nickname Greek freak it's plays like that and it's so abnormal I mean for so many years we've seen these great athletic players in transition throw down loud dunks but it's not often you see someone like Yanis who can do it

the way he does where he can do it with power but he can also do it when his foot is pretty much just touching the ground and he reaches out and dunks with power it's really weird well and there's no doubt he is the best guy right like he's the best one playing in all of this by a pretty wide margin?

I mean, if we're looking up and down and we're thinking about who, is he the only of guys that we would consider like top 10, 20 players in the NBA? I would say so. Is the only one that is playing in this? Because if you were trying to,

I don't want to leave anybody out, I mean, I might be because I'm just doing this off the cuff. But if we are just coming- Spain doesn't have anybody anymore. Marcus Sol is no longer a top 25, 30 guy. United States, Kemba is borderline, but I wouldn't guarantee

that he's a top 25 guy by any means. He would be the argument. The Canadian team is depleted, so it's nobody from them. Maybe Donovan, and he's supposed to be the best player on the team USA.

This is the summer of Donovan Mitchell by all counts. And I'm going to tell you, like, we were on him early after Summer League. He clearly had a great rookie season, was asked to carry a load in his second year on what was a very good team last year.

I had a chance to be around him during Summer League. And everybody had always told me that he is just, I mean, he's just an absolutely great guy. Like it is not, it's not an act. It's not fake. And then like when the cameras are off, he's a different guy. But by all accounts, he's a great guy.

And I got a chance to be around him. And I experienced that during Summer League. and then just watching him and the way he handles himself in all of these media settings as kind of the guy. It's great to see because, you know, he got his own signature shoe from Adidas this summer. You got a pair, didn't you? I saw you on Instagram. Dude, they're like, are they good? You know, my whole life, and I, Fort Usworth, let me preface this.

I still really like Nike. But all my whole life, I've always worn Nike and never wore Adidas. But those are really, really comfortable. Is that right? Yeah, they're really comfortable. I have two pairs of Adidas, and both of them are some of those comfortable sneakers that I've ever worn.

I never really wore Adidas much when I was a kid. It was typically Nike. How about that? Yeah, dude. Maybe I'm going to convert. Who knows? But I'm not like married to any one sneaker brand. You get those sneaker heads who are like only Nike.

Yeah, right. Well, you got those spider ones. But I mean, the kids got his own signature shoot. They've got, they've built a, great team around him for this upcoming season. Are you a speakerhead, Chris? I am. You are?

I am. My whole life I never was. I just wore like plain black Nike sneakers and nobody ever complimented my sneakers until I started wearing, I don't know, like basketball sneakers. And now it's like all the time we're like, nice sneakers. And I'm like, this is weird. Nobody ever said this before my whole life. This is embarrassing.

But I think on. What was this? This past weekend, I had to clean up my closet. And I probably threw away, not threw away. I took them to Goodwill. I don't, 30, 40 pairs. Wow. So, yeah.

Wow. And I didn't realize. I probably got 50. Wow. 50 in there. Still? Still? Oh, my God.

Probably. Probably. Damn. I never realized. I mean, we've talked about a lot of stuff over. the years, Chris. Well, I wasn't when I was young. You know? I wasn't when I was young. This is midlife crisis stuff. Maybe that's what it'll be like for me. It's because I love wearing them. They're

comfortable and they look good. No, this is a true story about, I don't know, maybe four or five years ago. I got into the air maxes and the Jordans and then I got into the Yeezys and I got into the Stock X stuff. And so, yeah, I was. big on shoes. I just started buying and then I, but now I've spent so much money on golf, I've chilled out on the shoes. This is stuff that happens as you get older, right? I mean, you just got to, you find something that you get interested in and I was always a big collector of things. And so I guess I just, I don't know, my attention went towards that for a time. And here, all right, just on a side note, here's the thing that happened to me, okay? I started following those,

Twitter accounts, sneaker steel and kicks deal and like these sneaker accounts. And so they flash up like what they do is they like, they flash up any kind of sale that's going on, right? So there'll be some website that's selling like air maxes and it'll be like 5999 free shipping, you know, normally 120. And I just click on it and I, I can't help myself.

I can't. I can't help myself. Like I got to unfollow those because every time. they put something up, I'm like, damn, I want those or that's a great deal. And next thing I know, I got 3,000 pairs of shoes. But I really blame Twitter. I really blame Twitter for that. But yeah, I am a, I probably got, jeez, I don't know. I mean, that's just tennis shoes, Kev. That's just tennis shoes. Because I've got dress shoes and, you know, you get a pair of the, the Yonis signatures that came out. Those look really nice, man. And they're cheap, too. They're like,

they're cheap for signature shoes, too. Are you talking about the freak one? Yeah, yeah, those. Oh, come on, man. What, those aren't cool? No, no, no. I said, look, look, I bought them, I'm not kidding, for my son. Oh, you already got those? No, my son's got them.

The day they came out. Oh, hell yeah. The day they came out. Well, because I happened to be at a Nike outlet, and for whatever reason, they had them. So I got them for like, you know, 40, 50 bucks. And I was like, all right. And, of course. I love the way the swoop is on the shoes.

Yeah, the backwards one. Yeah, it looks so. dope, man. Yep. Anyways, all right, back to Donovan Mitchell. Donovan Mitchell, we talked about some of the younger guys that can have a breakout year coming up this year. Mitchell is one that it's not fair to say like a breakout year, but could he become

one of the best players in the NBA this year? That's the question. Probably not, but you don't think so? I do think some of his weaknesses and can be enhanced by Mike Conley. I mean, we've talked about this before. What Conley could do for Mitchell and we could see a pre- you have this in Team USA when he's surrounded by more playmakers. But what Mike Conley can do for Mitchell during the regular season is minimize some of those poor shots that Mitchell had to create

for himself at the end of games in situations where they needed a bucket. Now you have Mike Conley who can do that and generate shots for you. So I think in that case, Mitchell's going to get a lot more easier shots. He's going to be able to cut more, something that he did at Louisville in college at a high level was cutting off ball. So we're going to see Mitchell. Mitchell cutting more. We're going to see him shooting off ball more. And we're just going to see him with less pressure and less responsibility on his young shoulders. He's still going to be only 23 years old this coming season. And he's already had significant success. So for Mitchell, I think the emphasis and the real focus will be for scoring the ball for him, which is only going to elevate that area of

his game, as well as others like his already productive defense. So Conley, Conley, I don't think makes Mitchell one of the best players in the league, but he certainly helps elevate him in the hierarchy of the league. I think he will be in the conversation as, you know, get in that top 20 players in the league conversation. And I do think he'll make his first all-star game appearance. That's fair. I wouldn't disagree with a top 20, 25 guy. I think that's fair. When you said one of the best players at the game, I thought you meant like top 10. Well, I mean, even, I mean, you know, with the rant out, there's going to be a spot open probably. You know, I mean, I think,

Mitchell's going to be absolutely great. And I think he's going to be the leading scorer on what is a great team this year. And so he'll probably get more shine than ever upcoming this year. We're going to take a quick break when we come back, the Kia rookie of the year, as well as every other award and superlative was picked in the rookie survey that was conducted by John Schumann for NBA.com. So we'll discuss what the other rookies. think is going to happen with their particular class this upcoming season. We'll do that after

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That's fI.gov.com. Switch to GoogleFi, a phone plan by Google. All right, Kev. So we mentioned that the NBA rookie survey came out. Shout out to John Schumann, who puts this out every year and asks the rookies, a series of questions to find out what they think is going to happen with their peers. And here's how it went this year. Who will win the rookie of the year award?

35% of the rookies voted for Zion Williamson, 27% from, John Morant, 5% for RJ Barrett, 5% for Cam Reddish. And then there was a bunch of guys in the others receiving votes categories. Do you agree with the rookies that Zion Williamson will be the rookie of the year? I would 100% agree. However, it is fascinating that John's been doing this survey since 2007, or at least NBA.com, has been doing the survey since 2007. and that was the only year, 07, when the rookies got it right.

They picked Kevin Durant to win the rookie of the year, and that's the last time. They got it wrong every other year since then. Well, in an attempt to not be a total homer, you know that going into the draft, I love John Morant, going into the lottery, I love John Morant, and then he ended up in Memphis. I do think when you're playing over whatever, 30 minutes a game, and you've got the ball in, you're, your hands all the time, you're just going to have so much opportunity. I mean, that is, that is the advantage is when you have the ball in your hands, you get to decide what happens. Zion, for the most part, is going to have to have somebody pass him the ball in order

to get it. So you wonder, I mean, where does Zion fall in terms of shot attempts on the Pelicans team? You think he is? Yeah, that's a good point. There's a lot of guys. Is he third? feed on that team. Yeah.

I mean, how many shots does he get as compared? Does he take more shots than Drew Holiday? Does he take more shots than Brandon Ingram? Does he take more shots than JJ Reddick? I do think Zion is going to get his, though, from transition, though. We're going to see a lot of situations where Zion rips down a defensive rebound, takes the ball himself, and goes coast to coast or makes a play for another person or draws a foul and gets to the free throw line.

So I think Zion is going to get plenty of shots, at least in the open. floor. In the half court, though, that is a good point, though, where maybe a lot of his buckets do from cleaning up around the rim with dump-offs and the pick and roll, rim running, cuts. He's going to get buckets, but he's not going to do a lot of creating for himself necessarily in half-court situations. Yeah. And the other, the advantage for Zion is that he should be on the best team of these guys. Yes, that's the big part. So that, that is an advantage. They could be. But clearly the advantage for Morant and Barrett is that they are going to play a position where they have the ball a lot.

And so they're going to get to control their outcome in many cases. Morant, more than likely as more of a passer, Barrett as more of a playmaker slash scorer. And it wouldn't surprise me if Barrett has some really big scoring nights in the NBA this year. If you told me Barrett ends up having several 30-point nights, it would not shock me. I mean, he's a great score. He is. He's a great score.

And so that's possible. You hope he'll become a great score. No, he is a great scorer. That's the one thing I am confident he can do. He can put the ball in the basket. The one interesting thing, you know, to hit on your point, Chris, I do think if you were betting on rookie of the year, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to look at somebody like a Darius Garland on Cleveland who will also get opportunities to score the ball on a young. team that's not going to be good, but he'll put up numbers. It's just, it's just, it's hard to win that award when you're 15 and 67.

But how about even someone like Rui Hatchamora on Washington? I'm talking about these guys that are going to get opportunities to put up volume numbers as a score. If you're placing a bet on somebody else other than the favorite in Zion or the number two in Jabbaran's, I do think you get a look at a Darius Garland or Rui Hachamor, somebody like that that's going to get opportunity to score. and can put up big volume numbers. They're the guys that make sense to me.

I tell you, the other one then would be Kobe White in Chicago. Very fair. They'll have the ball in his hand. Same way. You just have such an advantage. You know what I mean? If nobody has to pass you the ball and like you are not, so many rookies, they're just scared to,

they're scared to take shots and they just want to fit in because they're scared if they make a mistake, their coach is going to pull them out. But the guys that get drafted very highly that are going to have the ball in their hands, they've got so much opportunity to put up numbers. And in the event that there's a majority of the voters that are not going to see you play an excessive amount of games and are going to be looking at your numbers in order to decide who they think deserves the award, it's just such an advantage. One of the things from that particular question was it was a sign of

things to come in terms of the rookies and that they have a very high opinion of one of their peers, and that is Cam Reddish, because Cam Reddish fell in that third place voting for rookie of the year. And then in the next question, which rookie will have the best career? Cam Reddish, 19 percent, got the most votes. He was followed by John Morant, DeAndre Hunter, and then there was a group of guys that got votes, R.J. Barry, Jackson, Hayes, Kobe White, Zion Williamson. This is just absolutely goofy to me. seriously i don't get it at all but i wasn't a reddish fan and you were we broke ways on that but i am very shocked that the rookies voted him as having the best career of anybody in this

rookie class what do you make of it it feels like kind of a hipster take doesn't it i mean it's like NBA draft hipsters like yeah actually camera it's just going to be the best player in this drafts it's like you're just having a take just to have a take But with that said, if you look at past year's votes, rookies, you know, last season they voted Wendell Carter is the rookie that's going to have the best career, despite voting D'Andre Aiton and Colin Sexton is the guys who would win rookie the year.

To be honest with you, man, like, it's pretty clear. Rookies, like all of us, like you and me and general managers, aren't always the best at predicting the future. All right. Well, they say Cam Reddish. It is interesting, though, that they did give that award. or wherever you want to call it to Cam Reddish. Because I do think Cam, through this whole process from his struggles at Duke,

playing alongside RJ Barrett and Zion Williamson, to slipping a little bit in the draft, I do think people have soured maybe a bit too much on him. And when you consider what Cam, and this is where you and I kind of disagreed, Chris, but I think he does have a foundation of skills to be a success, especially in that Atlanta system, where Tray Young is going to be the primary ball handler there. and at least early in Camerich's career, his responsibility is so simple. It's spot up, hit threes,

attack closeouts, make smart plays off the dribble, which he can do as a passer, and then just really grind on the defensive end of the floor. He can be three and D, and then over time, grow. Grind on the defensive end of the floor is where you lose.

Dude, I mean, look. He was a good defender at Duke, though. Look, we've been doing this show for three years. That kid, he's got a motor problem, and I got no time. He's not. He's not Jeff Green, though. He's not Jeff Green.

No time for motor problems. No time. No time for him. You can have them. I don't know if I necessarily call it motor problems as much as just sometimes he fades. I know this. I know he told Duke that he walked in the locker room 45 minutes before a tournament game and said, I can't play.

And they were like, why? And he was like, I'm hurt. Come on. I don't trust it. I don't trust it. Look, there's questions that are very fair about RJ's upside, and that's why he slipped. That's why I soured on him a bit.

But I do think it's gone a bit too far. So it is interesting to see a lot of rookies who played high school with him, who played AEU with him, giving him that vote because they saw what he could do before. No, you know what this means? It means Cam Reddish is probably an awesome kid that everybody likes. He is a good kid.

I guarantee you that's what that means, right? that like he's probably everybody's buddy. They probably all love Cam Riddish. That's what I'd guess. He's a good kid. I think with Cam, he's quiet, but he's a good kid.

Yeah, Kevin O. Cameron crazy. I forgot. One thing to note, one thing to note, though, I just want to say this before we move on. Rookies voted in 2014,

the guy who would have the best career, Jabari Parker. And then in 2015, they voted Jaliel Okah for. That's all I wanted to say. That's all. Okay. Wow.

All Duke. And they also did vote Braynon Ingram in 2016, which I also would have voted. What the hell? Is it every year at Duke guy? And then the following year, Jason Tatum,

alongside Long as a Wall. I think John Schumann. And then Wendell Carter and then Cam Rudish. Oh, for God. It really is. Oh, my God.

In 14, 15, 16, 17, tie. Then 18, 19. Wow. The vote's rigged. It's rigged. Chris? I don't think this isn't a rookie survey.

This is a Coach K survey. Well, Coach K wouldn't have voted for Rettish, but the other ones he would have. Oh, no. That's crazy. Really? It's every year has been a Duke player every year. A lot of Duke kids. You know, I didn't even realize that until I said Okafor and then you're like, wait a minute here.

All right. Next one was which rookie was the biggest steal where they were selected in the draft. Bull Bowl at 44th to Denver and Kevin Porter Jr. at 30th to Cleveland tied for the most amount of votes. I think this is totally reasonable. The Bull Bull Bull thing, as we know, is total, you know, try to hit a grand slam and it's either a grand slam or an out probably. Like it's very hard to imagine him just being okay, you know,

just being an average player in the NBA. Like it kind of feels with him. It's either going to hit or it's not. But there's a chance. And you and I have talked about it. I mean, the skill level is just crazy for a guy his size. And I know all the knocks on Bowl Bowl, but getting him at 44 is 100% worth the risk to me. And he goes to a really good team where he doesn't have to be good immediately.

And the other one, Kevin Porter, you know from the very first minute I saw him. And most everything with Porter that I heard. heard that talked me out of him was off the court. None of it was on the court. And I do worry about him going to Cleveland and winning, you know, 15 games and being on a team. Hopefully John B-line and the rest of the guys can keep everything in order, but it's not going to be an extremely healthy environment because excessive losing is never healthy for any of these young guys. But Porter is a extremely skilled basketball player who jumps off the I mean, he jumps off the screen at you when you go through and watch some of his highlights.

And so I buy it. I buy this. Carson Edwards, Nassir Little, Isaiah Roby, Kobe White, Grant Williams, all got votes. But Bull Bowl at 44, Kevin Porter at 30. I think this is totally fair, don't you? Yeah, it's fair. I'm a bit surprised we didn't see more votes for Brennan Clark going to Memphis with the 21st pick or Nikiel Alexander Walker going to New Orleans with a 17th pick.

But this is the type of thing that it'll figure itself out over time. I wouldn't have voted Bull Bull. I think considering the element of risk with him off the court, but also on the court with his injury proneness, I think falling to 44 might have been a bit too far. But I do think there was other guys who were greater steals at this point when assessing the draft. Yeah. There's just, I mean, if it hits, there's, you know, there's very few guys that you can say there's nothing like him, but there's really nothing like him in the league.

He's like a worst version of Chris Stapps, maybe. That's a possibility or a thawn maker, someone like that. Yeah, but he's even bigger. Yeah, he's bigger. And he's also in thinner too. He's got twigs for legs. Yeah, I'm with it. I mean, he might get just thrown around and it might just work out terribly,

but I'm rooting for the kid. That was so hard to watch. Because, I mean, God, he, like, he only played X, number of games at Oregon and he was freaking awesome. I mean, it's not like you played in college games. It was crap. He played in college games and was awesome. I wouldn't go as far as awesome.

Yeah, he was. He was not. Yes, he was. He was really, he was pretty horrific on defense. Oh, stop. He was not horrific. He was, that's a good. That's a goofy take.

Horrific. Stop. It's college basketball for God'sakes. I mean, that's what we're talking about. He was not horrific in college. I mean, if you want to project him to the NBA as a terrible defender, but he was not a horrific defender at Oregon. His point of us fine.

His effort was horrific. That's fair. Your effort's horrific. Thank you, Chris. All right. Good rebuttal. The rookie, the rookie who is most athletic. Unbelievably,

Zion Williamson, number one, followed by Brandon Clark, also got some votes, both super athletic guys. The rookie is the best shooter, Tyler Hero. I got no problem with that. God, he looked awesome at Summer League. He really did.

Now, that's going to be one of those. Did Summer League foretell what was to come or was that Summer League? I don't know. I don't know. But I'll tell you this. That kid, he's got some onions and he is not scared and he can shoot the shit out of the ball.

Yeah. There's a strong possibility that us boys at the at the ringer got it wrong with with hero i had him ranked 27th the deanie and sharks both had him 30th i think there's a strong possibility that we all three of us got it wrong with him i think with hero it's it's fascinating to me that he has been very open about the fact that devon booker is his favorite player and he's entering the NBA with sort of similar pluses and minuses if you're assessing his game out of college out of kentucky coincidentally same school Devin Booker went to, there is a possibility that we do see more elements that he flashed in

Summer League on the ball, passing, making smart plays off the dribble. If his ball handling continues to develop, and if he really maxes out his athleticism, getting a bit quicker with his first step, he can do a bit more than just be a shooter off the catch, which he was rightfully praised for by his peers. Which rookie is the best defender? Matisse Thibel from Philadelphia. went to Washington. I love Sibel. Yeah, I mean, there was one knock.

What did I? The offense has obviously got a long way to go. But the other thing was that he was playing, he had all these crazy blocks and steals numbers, and some discounted them a bit because he was playing, you know, in his own primarily from that old Syracuse assistant that's now at Washington. DeAndre Hunter got a lot of votes.

And then, of course, Brandon Clark Jackson-Hays, Nassir Little all on that. list also receiving votes bull bowl just wanted to pass that on to you just I just want to pass that on to you that bowl bowl also by his peers got votes as the best defender

rookie's voted Josh Jackson two years ago I love looking at the past votes like where they get it right and where they got it why are you bringing a bull crad why are you bringing a bull cram I mean you can bring up the stuff I got wrong too I'd be happy to discuss It's interesting to see where people got it wrong.

That's what I mean. It's interesting to look at where I got it wrong in the past. It's like back in 2014, Marcus Smart and K.J. McDaniels were tied as best defender. Marcus Smart has panned out completely. KJ. McDaniels, who I also loved in the draft, has been an utter failure. All right. What about Thibel? Do you agree with the rookies?

I think he's going to be tremendous in Philadelphia. I think he's a better shooter than he got credit for coming out of school. So that's number one. And I think with his defense very clearly is going to be a multi-positional defender. And at every level, high school and then in college, he has been max effort guy, a smart defender. He's one of those players who will sacrifice for his team, diving on the floor for loose balls, taking a charge, making the rotation that other guys may not because they're tired. Thibel makes all of those plays. And for Philadelphia, he's one of those pieces that can just fit in and enhance or compliments some of the stars and more ball dominant players on that team.

It's a great fit for the Sixers. This has not been, it's not been great to win this award, clearly, because it was Michael Kid, Gilchrist, Ola Depot, who's turned out to be an all-star, McDaniel, smart, Ronday Hollis Jefferson, Chris Dunn, Josh Jackson. last year, Javon Carter this year, Thiable. Rookie playmaker, John Morant, got the majority of the votes. He is followed by Darius Garland, and then Ty Jerome and Kobe White.

Darius Garland is easily the biggest wild card of any of the rookies to me. I do wish that I could have gotten to see him at Summer League. I wasn't paying attention to Vandy at the very beginning of the season, and you really had to have been if you wanted to see that kid play at all.

So you're just going off of high school tapes and then the word of many NBA scouts and GMs that I trust in talent evaluation. And I couldn't find anybody that didn't think Garland was going to be awesome. I mean, it was unanimous, unanimous that they thought Garland's going to be awesome. I just haven't seen the kid play against great competition. So I don't know. I'm very excited to watch him play this upcoming season and wished I could have gotten to see him at least against the level of competition that there was at Summer League just to see how he looks amongst those guys like we got to see Kobe White and some others and Harrow and some of the other guys

we've mentioned. Where are you at on Garland? It's like I said earlier. I think to me if you're looking for a sleeper for rookie of the year, he makes a lot of sense for a lot of the same reasons you just said. Yeah, outside of Morant, you know, I'm I'm in love with that Nikiel Alexander Walker got to see him in Summer League and everything about him was awesome everything. He was just tremendous and I could see him have an outstanding rookie year

and he's a great playmaker too. I mean he was all around outstanding defender. I mean they nailed the draft they really did. The Pelicans friggin nailed it. I mean because Hayes looked so much better than anybody thought already and they got Zion that kid and Hayes.

She's. super exciting stuff going to be having in New Orleans over the course the next couple of years and then yeah that was all of the player ones their favorite player in the league

was LeBron James followed by Kevin Durant what was funny was that Kevin Garnett got a vote for their favorite player in the league so and Steve Nash Steve Nash and Kevin Garnett got both as well and Jamal Crawford

interesting to see Devin Booker on there as well it's like a lot of superstar players here like lebron katee kawai lillard hardin devon booker i figured they figured they gave you a vote i mean i i would happily vote for devon book right i know you would most one of the most underrated players in the league most unfairly slandered players in basketball unfairly slander great he's true well he his team has won like 30 games in his whole career Congratulations. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I know exactly what you mean. All right. Hey, hey. Hey, look. We've been talking about it for years. This has got to be the year, right? This has got to be the year.

The bright future sun's thing's going to come through for you, right? Kemp. This is the year. You playoff, right? I don't know. They're definitely not in the playoffs. What do you mean? What are you talking about?

They're not going to make the playoffs. They got a tank again. No, God, no. It's the eternal, what is it? Eternal Sunshine of the spotless mind. It's them, huh? They're just the eternal bright future. They're just going to be eternal.

What they got to do is tank and get another high pick for the rest of time. Yes, Chris. Lose 60 games again. Get a high pick. Yeah, go for, go for James Wiseman. that you could have a James Wiseman DeAndre 8 in the front court Maybe

maybe at RJ Hampton have a jumbo size back court That could be cool with Booker and Hampton You don't think that Cam Johnson was the answer, huh? I don't think so. No, I don't. They got Ricky Rubio now. Didn't you see that? They got Ricky Rubio.

No? No? No, I don't know, dude. They do. They have some pieces. When is the future, break, Keth. I mean, I'm, I have moved on to the Grizzlies and Pelicans.

However, I think with Devin Booker, though, I mean what I said. I think he is the most unfairly slandered player in league. And we've talked about it plenty of times before. I'm sure we'll talk about it many times again. But Devin Booker in this league is star. I just hope happens to be surrounded by a bunch of crap. Crap, how dare you? Dragon Bender?

Don't you still believe? You don't believe anymore? All right. Hey, listen, free Ty Jerome. I was so mad when he got trapped in there. I was like, no. No.

I got high hopes for Todd Jerome. Kevin, it is always a pleasure. Enjoy your week and we'll catch up again next Tuesday. Absolutely, Chris, looking forward to what we're recording. I don't know if you said this to the top of the show, but recording on Monday night. I'm looking forward to watching a Bachelor in Paradise. Oh, my God.

Of course you are. Oh, by the way, next week we're doing a mailbag. Oh, yeah, we are doing a mailbag. So give them the address. Yeah, people, if they want to submit questions, can email NBA mailbag at gmail.com. So next week we'll answer some questions, talk about whatever we want. You know, ask us about life, you know, movies, food, and basketball, of course, too. I'm glad you're using a different email.

I figured you were going to use your personal one. Bright Future Sun fan at GM. It'll be like an at Hotmail or something like that. You go, you go watch Bachelor in Paradise. I'm going to go like, I don't know, chop wood or something like super, super masculine. While I'll work wearing one of your old Nike sneakers. Yeah, I'm going to throw on.

Collectors, right? Yeah, I'm going to throw on some Jordans and go like, I don't know, weld something. I'm not sitting and watch Bachelor of Paradise with my mom. All right, Kevin, I'll catch up with you next week. Thanks to everybody for listening to another episode of The Mismatch. If you dig what you're here and go give us a rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars.

It really helps. And we will talk to you next week.