The Ringer NBA Show - No-Power Rankings | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 13, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos discuss Kawhi’s injury and how it could affect the panic meter for the Clippers (3:39). Then, they rank the teams with the worst outlooks going forward (8:17). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producers: Carlos Chiriboga, Chia Hao Tat, and Victoria Valencia Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every true football fan knows that the NFL season truly begins after the Super Bowl champion has been crowned, and the ringer NFL feed will keep you on top of all the news still happening around the league and heading into the 2024-25 season. I'm Sheila Capadia. And every Monday and Friday, Ben Solac and I deliver Sharp takes the debates on the draft, free agency, training camp, and beyond an extra point taken. And every Wednesday, it will have dual threat where Stephen Ruiz and yours truly, Nora Princeati, dive deep into all of the big offseason developments, with Ringer favorites, Austin Gale and Lindsay Jones, stopping by occasionally to share

their expert football analysis. Subscribe to the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to follow the Ringer NFL on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and X at Ringer NFL. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Varyer. Joining me, as always, Rob Mahoney, and here to sing the hit song from the movie Barbie. I'm just waz it's big waz

Yeah No I'm not here to sing that song But I'm glad everybody Seem to enjoy that Have you seen Barbie? I have not seen Barbie What?

We're in pink on set today too It's not for me The movie wasn't made for me And that's fine Like all things are not made for me I just know Just I just know I just from

What I can gather From the quote unquote discourse on the internet, it's just not something that was made for me to participate with. Is that how you decide your media consumption? Like what the right-wing theorists are saying about a particular movie? Like, okay, now I know whether to engage or not. Well, thankfully, I don't follow right-wingers anywhere.

I don't watch their TV. I don't follow them on the internet. So, thankfully, I don't have to engage with that. But, like, people who I like, hearing them talk about the movie taught me, yeah, you don't need to see that. I'm just Was Yeah, if you do want to do your musical number I'll be your Kingsley Benadier any day, Waz

Yeah, I am become death That's my musical For sure Tweeting at night about the Anjin I'm just Waz I saw that last night And I was like, what the fuck is going on?

You were talking about kaiju And I was like Am I missing something? I'm under attack? No, no. No, no, no, I was watching Showgun last night. Yeah. Episode 4, obviously Rob and Joanne are reviewing it for the company. I'm into the show.

I'm definitely into the freakier parts. There's some freaky parts. More so than, you know, some of the other stuff, but it's a cool show. Like, it's a dope little conceit. And I'm enjoying it. All right. Only thing I don't like, and, you know, whatever, this is dumb American of me. You can't look at your phone while you're watching that show.

Because a lot of videos are Japanese and you will miss the entire thing. You got to be locked in to that screen while you're watching this show. I prefer that's how people listen to Group Chad too, just in a dark room. Nothing else going on. Just listening to our voices. Yeah, just staring at photos of us individually laid out on the table. Whatever you want to do. So we're going to get into the No Power Rankings, a full circle from last week's power rankings, future Power Rankings.

But first, we actually have to do an addendum to the previous episode. We did our DefCon system for our panic meter teams. And last night on Tuesday night, Kwai Leonard just leaves the game in the first quarter, has back spasms to the point was where he couldn't even stay at the arena, goes home, presumably to watch the game on League Pass. He doesn't have clip revision at the crew? He might not.

But just like, how do you feel? feel now in light of that. We don't have the news yet, so about specifically how long he might be out, but just gut feeling how you feel? I don't want to panic because I think Kauai generally takes a highly cautious approach to his body

and injuries that he undergoes for better and for worse, honestly. And so that he left to go immediately get it treated at a hospital. Strikes me as a very Kauai thing. And until we get news that he's going to be out forever, I tend to just, you know, see Kauai.

injury management as the most cautious approach, probably in NBA history? I would panic a little more than that, I would say, just because not that I anticipate him being out for such a long time. But yeah, back injuries are persistent. And more importantly, the clippers really need Kauai more or less at full strength,

cutting against the grain of elite defense. They have stuff they can generate that's easy, but he generates all the stuff that's hard for them. And if he's not in a physical position to do that, I have some questions about their playoff outlook. Rob, I don't know if you saw Anthony Edwards post game last night where he basically like, yeah, because why is their best defender? And they just had no answers.

They kept sending two at me. They were just searching after that. I thought that was just cutting analysis about young Anthony Edwards. This is the darkest timeline, though, right? Well, not yet. Well, yeah, right. Paul George not being there hard and et cetera would be the worst case scenario. But like, this is what the fear was when Kauai was just powering through regular season games earlier in the season.

I think it's probably a bad sign that he was playing. He has played the most amount of games he's played for the Clippers, one over his previous high. And he's on the verge of passing that 60 game mark. But this is what you worry about that. Maybe he might be pushing a little too far, whereas like the load management issue at least maybe saved him down the road. They didn't even get that, but like maybe they get neither at this point. Yeah. And back spasms especially.

It compromises everything about your movement. And it's hard to come back from. It's hard to manage. It can flare up at virtually any time with any kind of tweak. It's a bit of an alarm going off. So even if we're not panicking yet, we're certainly like manning our battle stations, knowing where the emergency exits are.

I think we have to be more cautious with the clippers, even after something that seems like a one-game blip, even if Kauai returns in relatively short order. It's something to monitor in a pretty serious way. Yeah, and this is why I think the good. guys are in a damn if you do, damn if you don't situation. Guys like me complain about, you know, the way the regular season just gets treated as a glorified exhibition basically period, right, by a lot of, especially veteran groups and veteran coaches

where it's like, you know what, none of it matters, the seating doesn't matter. We pick and choose when we play our guys and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And honestly, I think a team like the Clippers could stand to use the regular season as a way to coalesce as an actual group. not a collection of individuals. And so, Kauai embracing that this year and then this happening, it just kind of sucks because it's like it's the double-edged sword. Do you just treat the regular season as a joke and sacrifice chemistry and cohesion?

Or do you take it seriously and put yourself at risk of a freaking flare-up of some back spasms? It's kind of tough, man. Rob, how's your back feeling? You feel like you can get through this pod? Carrying the load of group chat, man. Yeah, I got to say, lots of aches and pains, Justin. That's why we have these scheduled rest days around here. Waz and I are trying to load manage.

We're trying to get through the season. I don't know what you're doing. That's true. I am doing a scheduled off day coming up here. And as I told you guys before the show, good luck. We will try to soldier on. Justin trying to insinuate that we take his efforts for Greene is so hilarious. I'm looking at this dock and it is thorough as hell.

You guys want to go more off the cuff? support you, but good luck. That's all I'm saying. All right. So no power rankings. We do this pretty much every year at this point. I think we're on third annual with this one, maybe second annual with future power ranking. So the listeners should know at this point, the deal here.

Unlike last week where you guys forced us to put a win total on this, I don't think we should do that. Because with losers, I think it's less cut and dry. A team that is winning more games, for instance, that's stuck in the middle of the standings, I think is probably you could argue at a worse position than a team that is at the bottom right now.

Yeah. So are we good with that? Yeah. Wait, what did we force now? Just the, this is the amount of, the team with the most amount of wins in the next five year period. Sure.

It wasn't that explicit, honestly. Like, that was part of the metric, but in the same way that despair is part of the metric here. Yes. Okay. Well, then we're going to do our bottom five. So one would be the worst situation

in the league moving forward. Five would be fifth worst situation moving forward. Rob, do you want to start with your number five? Yeah, I think ultimately, I think we probably have the same six-ish teams, if I could guess. Six to seven teams that are kind of in the running here. Five for me is the only Western Conference team. And that's the Portland Trailblazers. I had the same.

Was, do you have Portland? Yeah, they're my fifth. And it's hard because I don't think they're... completely rudderless and hopeless, but they also don't possess the type of young guy that gets fanbases yelling at me in my mentions when I don't think that they're, you know,

world beating, you know, boy princes, right? And so the school thing has been gotten better as the season has progressed, but I don't think it's looked the way I think certain people

were anticipating that it would. dominating has been Dominan average Just watching the wheels Turned there That hasn't necessarily been a thing But at the same time they own all of their draft capital

They'll be able to add to this thing They'll trade some of their veterans Like Grant and get some other pieces in here I think Anthony Simons is a gem. I think the more they put the ball in his hands and allow him to sort of explore and learn who he is,

the better. He's a bona fide elite shooter already. I just think it's not completely hopeless, but I think there was more excitement for the quote-unquote young pieces on this team coming into the season than there is right now. Slightly cool, I would say. Yeah. And in fairness to them,

they've lost a bunch of games to injury. They've lost some guys to injury for more or less the majority of the season, like Robert Williams among them. And so there's the veteran side of things where they haven't really made the deals they can make yet. Malcolm Brogden, Jeremy Grant, as you mentioned, was. Maybe Robert Williams, if he comes back and shows enough

to prove it to some other team. But as far as the young guys, I just look at this young core. A core of players we genuinely like, I think, for the most part. Simons and Sharp, Tumani Kumar, even scoot, slow start, but there's some things to like about his game and his prospects there. It's just going to be a long arc before this is a good team again. And there are teams we're going to talk about that are in stages where they need to tear it down.

But for Portland, I think it's just going to be a very gradual, slow building of a team in a really tough conference. I agree with the conference part of that. I don't know if it will be as slow as we think, which probably hits on the main reason they're at number five for me, is that the guys you're expecting to be the superstars, the next dame, for instance, may not be there. I think they have a lot of good lottery tickets and a lot of guys who could step into that and be a good team. But I think the fact that they're so veteran-laden, we're talking like five, six guys who could be a starter on a lot of teams in this league making a lot of money, which is a whole other issue. I think they can hit the ground running. I also like how they've stocked up on big wing players.

And you can see the type of bets that they're going for out there. In addition to Grant, you have Kamara, Thibel, obviously. But it's Rupair. It's Murray. It's our guy, Delano Banton. I know he's a point guard, but that guy's as big as a power forward. So, like, they're learning the lessons from previous, I wouldn't say failures of the Blazers, but just like what they didn't have before they potentially could have down the road here.

Are they, though? Because, like, what is Matisse Thibol, if not New Age Al-Farukamino? That's a good point. But, like, some of the younger guys are the types of guys that they never had, where they may be able to home grow. I mean, Kamara is the prime example there. Now, he can't really shoot. So maybe he is the Mo Heartless.

Yeah, exactly. But those are the type of guys that you need in order to build, especially around these smaller guards. At the very least, they're going to have one, maybe two, after this thing is said and done between Simon Sharp, Scoot Henderson. Why I almost didn't put them on this list was was because they are at the very least farther along than some of these teams that have yet to bottom out.

Like, yes, maybe Scoot isn't the guy, but the fact that they have Scoot in-house already, they've gone through the process of drafting high. And so, like, they may ultimately be farther along in the process. I tend to agree with that. The teams that I have in front of them have way less going on in terms of promising young people already in-house. And so that to me is what separates the Blazers from the other four teams on the list. Some of them have all of their draft capital, notably with one of them, they don't.

And some of them haven't even found one very young guy on a rookie deal. that you're like, oh man, I bet you he's going to get close to a max extension when it's all set and done. And so I think the Blazers, man, you can see a scenario where Shaden Sharp gets paid because he's really good at the end of his rookie deal. You can even squint and see the scenario with Scoot right now at this given moment, right? And so that's why I think they're at the back of this list rather than the front like some of the teams we're going to talk about after.

Definitely. And a guy like Simons for as complex as he is in terms of figuring out what position he should play and what his responsibility should be really incredible offensive player. Like the kind of guy who you want those sorts of problems if you're going to be a team toward the bottom of the standings. But if anything was, I think you might have been too kind to DeAndre Aden, who I'm not sure if there's been a more joyless player in the league this season and one whose box score contributions, I trust less than him. Like he's still getting numbers, but he's going to average a double double and have basically no impact on this season.

Yeah, that's the one thing that I'm a turn a curious eye toward is that it feels like when Aiton's in the lineup, everything tilts toward making him happy in a way that maybe they think just down the road they can unlock him and if he's happily engaged in the situation, maybe they get the best version of Yandre Aiton. So I have him down as 14th in the league in terms of post-up frequency, which isn't too bad,

but it's not great, but he's doing it as successfully on a points-possession basis as Chris Middleton. I mean, Chris Milton is a good post-up player. That's a flattering comparison. Yeah, but what you're doing as often as A, and you would hope to be more in the elite-level territory. So it's like there are times, for instance,

I was watching the game against the Raptors last weekend where it feels like Scoot isn't driving as much of the action, even when he does have the ball, because he was trying to not clutter the lane in order to get Aiton on a post-up in order to win a mid-March game against another bad team. And it's like, that's the type of process thing that I don't love. I will say about Scoot, though,

I love the fact that he's hit a wall and he's trying to find other ways to contribute. Like it seems like he's taken it upon himself to try to be better on defense. And now I was pretty skeptical about his defense abilities coming into the league. He's small and you see at times how easily he is screened off of a ball handler

because of that. But he's trying his ass off and I appreciate that competitive spirit at the very least. Yeah, he's a hyper-competitive guy. And again, some of the, I think what people were excited about were his athleticism and explosion.

It just hasn't leapt off the page the way people anticipated that it would at this level. And, you know, again, some people might say, oh, you're damning with faint praise. Like, yo, becoming an NBA point guard is hard as hell. The idea that he's not immediately successful

being some huge damnation of his future potential, I don't tend to agree with. Even, you know, again, hopefully in the future he won't be playing with a guy like, who, you know, I grew up in the 90s where the term for him would have just been

big for nothing. We don't use that term anymore, but that used to be a common refrain for a lot of guys. I like it. We need to bring you back. Big for nothing. And Aitin sometimes seems like his size is so, like, not functional at all.

Nobody feels his presence on either end of the floor. You know, I got yelled at on the internet about how great it was that, but they were bringing him into their building. They were so excited. he's stunk up the joint. He really has stunk up the joint. What worries me about Scoot, though, Justin, as far as that piece of it goes, I agree,

finding other ways to contribute is a great thing for a young point guard. But one of the reasons I see this as a longer-term process for him is he hasn't been force-fed the kind of reps that other young guards are. In terms of the reeds of every play, every possession, you were the guy with the ball in your hands, you were the one dictating where it goes. That's a lot of responsibility, and it doesn't lead to winning for players in Scoot's position, but it does lead to development. And so it makes me think he's had this year

where he's sharing so much of those responsibilities and the floor has been shrunk and cluttered and it's hard to navigate, is he just due for one of those high volume but messy developmental years in years two or three. It has to come at some point if he's going to move along in terms of his reeds as a point guard. Yeah, which is particularly disappointing

because they moved Dame ostensibly to do that, right? To give their young guys room to grow. And it feels like oftentimes, he's playing deferentially two assignments, even to a sharp, some of these other guys. Even Joe Brogden. Yes. Yeah. Right.

So, Was, who do you have as your number five? Blazers are my number five. Okay, so we all have the same number five. Perfect alignment on group chat this morning. Yes. Love it. Who do you have at four, Rob? I went with the Chicago Bulls at four.

Okay. I had them at two. Wow. I get that. Are they on your list, Was? No, the Bulls aren't on my list. Not on my list. just at worst, they can be a 500 team.

Like, if they stood pat right now, it did nothing, just kept their team together. They could get to 44 wins next season. The four teams ahead of them, I think, have absolutely no shot of doing that. If they keep their rosters as they exist right now. And I'm talking about, yeah, like, I'm talking about, like, even if their best young guy takes a leap,

They're not going to be a 500 team next year. And so to me, the Bulls, they're very veteran-laden, and it's not fun because the ceiling is so clearly defined for them. But their floor is so much higher than the teams that I put on this list. And so they didn't rank for me because it's not completely hopeless. It's just like, wow, how can you get excited for a capped-out at 46-win team? I think 46 wins might be too much as the issue. I think they have it in them.

A healthy roster of these guys next year could win 46 games. We could see that as a possibility. A healthy, and we'll get back to Pistons next year, is not winning 46 games. No, no, they're not. No shot.

And the Bulls are going to be a play-in team. Like, they are basically a play-in lock at this point based on the way the East is set up. So all credit to them for that. I just think there's something especially bleak about a team that's in as bad a spot as them that hasn't fully accepted how bad a spot it is. I think there are teams where when you're winning

39 to 42 games a season, it's totally fine. And you have young players who are coming along or who are developing, who are coming into their own. And there are some of those bright spots with Chicago, but like, who are the keepers here? That's the question.

Kobe White. Kobe White. One of the best surprises of the season. Awesome story. Yep. And even then Chicago was like... Even Zach Levine. Did you see him?

He's like, yeah. I didn't see that coming. Oh, that's crazy. How could you? That's crazy. He turned into a totally different player, but the Bull's circumstances, well, also true. But this situation is depressing enough to even blot out how pleasant of a surprise Kobe White has been. Yes.

So White is a keeper. Unfortunately, two more years after this one at a bargain contract. I'm sure he's going to be Jocelyn for an extension very quickly. Alex Caruso, a guy we all love. Great player. Every contender needs a player like Alex Carrey's. His contract is up. Expiring contracts.

Demardarosen, their best player. Expiring contract this year has to be brought back. He's unrestricted free agent. Patrick Williams, not a good player who is now out with the stress reaction in his foot. He's a restricted free agent this year. What do you do at this point? Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd just cut bait. Damn.

Not even a qualifying offer. Yeah. I just like, what else do we got here? Lonzo's deal is still on the books actually he has a player option for next season I'm sure he picks that up yeah uh Vooch is here I want to talk about Vooge but and then Zach Levine not finishing the season

so the guys that are healthy you don't want and the guys that you do want aren't healthy well and shout out to Ayodosumu who I think fits into their plans and is a good young player and they're going to end up with probably what amounts like the 12th pick in the draft and we'll see what that gets them but look I want to put it this way

because I think the state of the Bulls is depressing But the spirit of that team, I think, is really admirable. Like, these guys play hard. DeRosen, Caruso, White. Even, like, Andre Drummond has given them, like, really good, hard-playing minutes to the point that they win games that they probably shouldn't win. And I mean that by, like, talent level.

Like, they're out-playing teams to get wins. And it kind of makes the situation all the more tragic in some ways, because these guys are really fighting for it. And yet, the construction of the team is just not conducive to building anything right now. Because this was the year they would have had to, to bottom out because they do owe a 2025 first to San Antonio as a result of the Demarderosen

sign and trade, which is top 10, 8, 8 protected. So if they just bring back a decent team, presumably they're giving that up next season. And so, like, you got to go and do the same thing over again next year, including our guy Vucci man, which, let me just

read these stats off for you. So Vooch is, in addition to everything we've said about him on this podcast for the past two years, now the worst three-point shooter in the NBA who qualifies for the three-point leaderboard. He's taking 4.2 a game shooting 28.5% from three. Good God. Over the past five seasons, that's fourth worst over that stretch with a minimum of four

a game over a third of a season played. Above him, rookie Poku, rookie Jordan Poole, rookie Jalen sucks. So if you think it's bad, just based on where he is in the leaderboard this season, it's actually much worse. Yeah, Vucovich shouldn't be shooting as much. But again, like, I think the problem with Chicago is not so much their roster. For me, although their roster, obviously,

as for all the reasons you guys just mentioned, isn't ideal, it's their ownership situation and management seems to be so stuck in the mud and just apathetic. Like, they just don't care about the direction of the team. It feels like they're so indecisive at times about what they want to do and how they should be carrying out their business.

And that's the saddest part to me. But like you guys said, they've played at basically a 500 stretch over the last 20 games. This is a, you know, it's a 500 team. I think if they got off of Zach Levine and got some decent players in return, they could be a 500 team again next year.

And again, that's not fun. But again, it's, there are worse situations out there to me. Sure. Well, the fly in the ointment of the... They don't employ Ben Simmons, you know, just to tease some of the rest of my list. But here's the thing about wanting to continue to be that sort of competent or mediocre or however you want to categorize it. Damar is a free agent, as you said, Justin.

What if Damar de Rosen doesn't want to come back to this? And if I were him, I don't know that I would. Like, where does that leave? If it's Zach Levine coming back from injury and, more or less this same team, plus the 12th pick in the draft, plus some standard issue offseason additions, where is that getting the Chicago Bulls? I don't know that that might be more toward the back end

of the play-in group, to the point where you're scrapping for just like every win you can get for even less. Going into a season, knowing that you're bad and there's nothing you can do about it is as bad as they can get as a fan base. And so that's why I have them at two. There's nothing the Bulls can do about it? I mean, other than bring de Rosen back, which... I mean, I'm saying couldn't they, like, do the opposite of what they've been doing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they have chosen this path. Okay, got you, got you, got you. I mean, I would get rid of most people there. Justin, just firing everybody. So that was my number two, Rob's number four. You didn't have them. So who do you was have it for?

My number four is the Pistons. Okay. I had them at three. They're number two for me. Okay. And the Pistons because, look, I know, Never gave up my Cade stock. He's looked pretty damn good for like a solid six to eight weeks now, where this guy

looks like a guy now. And just knowing that to be a truth is important. He's finally making his shots. The turnovers are still a thing. But I think somebody whose usage is as high as he is. And with a roster that's as discombobulated as this one is. and a coach who's been as stubborn about playing these weird lineup configurations. All things considered, man, it's a minor miracle that he's turned his individual season around.

And by all accounts, he's got the right temperament. He's got the right attitude about the work that he wants to do to make himself into an incredible player. And so I'm excited that the K-A thing is turned around so obviously and dramatically. Now the next part is building a real NBA team. And you wonder if Troy Weaver, who is threatening to whoop people's asses in the stands, is the guy to take them there? And I get it. The Ivy thing can be clunky at times. The two bigs that they insist them on playing all the time doesn't make that much sense when guys can't shoot like that.

But Cade individually gives me so much hope that I put them at the best. back of this list. I thought you were going to say I get it when you want to threaten to whip somebody's ass. No. Because let me tell you. Sometimes you just got to call

an asshole on Twitter a bitch and you just have to keep it moving. I don't employ that tactic. I've wanted to plenty of times. But half the times it's like, yo, it's a guy with some anime cartoon that I've never even heard of

as his avatar. It seems like I shouldn't be engaged in a public spat with this person. But yeah, no, I think the Pistons have more hope than we would have thought when they're losing 26 games in a row. That's 28. 28, excuse me.

And people like, I don't know, this Cade guy, is he ever going to figure it? Sure. Well, he's figured it out. Yeah. And so I think things are less bleak for them. Cade is definitely something. And Cade and Jalen Duren and Asar Thompson and Jaden Ivy, that's also something.

But I don't know what it is or what it amounts to and it definitely doesn't fit. That's what worries me about them. I think Caden Duren makes sense together in a lot of ways. But when you're also fitting in Ivy and also fitting in a SAR,

their best young players just don't have an easy way to play together. And I think it's going to take them time to try that for a while and then they're going to try to entangle it and all of those things take time. And that's what I worry about with them

is you kind of need to move quickly during this stage to get more shooting on the floor. The offense has been such a disaster. The spacing has been so bad. Can you get any sort of relief for someone who's as talented as Cade to have some room to actually operate in there? Yeah, and they acknowledge that partly

at the trade deadline, getting big tech in there, getting grimes, young guys that can grow around this core. But you're right, that's kind of the sticking point for me. I liked what Cade has done here, 21.6 points, 8 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 46, 39, 87, 23 games post the 28 game losing streak.

They're 5 and 18 in those games. But like, it has to be him and Ivy together, and that's the big sticking point for me. I never really, I liked Ivy as a prospect and he's electric at times. He'll just do things,

almost like a young Westbrook where you're like, holy shit, like where did that come from? But getting in a downhill attacking guard to play on a team with a lack of spacing is already tough

because he can't space. and then to do it alongside Kate, who's had his own issue shooting the ball. I'm just like, how does this fit together long term? It's just like that type just feels a little antiquated, especially when the spacing is already kind of mushed together.

That's the thing for me is like, I like the fire and ice Ivy Cade thing. If Cade is going to be more methodical, get an explosive guard. But if you're going to do that, your five's got to be able to shoot. Yes. Jailant Duren ain't shooting.

Jailen Duren ain't shooting. Assartan. might as well be shooting like Chris Dudley. 18.6. Like it's better than a men though, I should say. Just slightly. That's crazy. And to Troy Weaver's defense,

I understand the idea that I want to get these explosive guys who actually also possess a high level of skill that might not be shooting, right? These aren't just, you know, athletes that you just throw out there who don't understand Hoop, like, I think Assar Thompson has actual feel for the game.

Oh, yeah. Jaden Ivy, too, I think he has feel for the game. I don't think these are just mega athletes who just show up and just run and jump, right? But at the same time, there is just no infrastructure that is complementary to those skills at all right now, and so it looks messy. But, again, I just think when you have somebody like Cade who can be a possessions eater, and can do it quite efficiently and is showing you a scoring punch now,

it clarifies the logic of your team so much better than what we might have thought was this team before. Here's a little bit of information, and you can do with this what you will. Those four core young guys, plus big tech, has actually been like a modest,

that positive lineup. Now, that's almost all on defense. the offense is still a disaster, even with him out there. And I have a little trivia for you guys. So the Pistons won the title in 2004. That team unraveled in 2008. Mutiny, in fact. Some mutiny in there.

Light to medium mutiny. That's 16 seasons since 2008. How many times in those 16 seasons do you think the Pistons have ranked in the top half of the league on offense? Top 15? Top 15 offense in 16 seasons. Maybe the Greg Monroe years, the peak Greg Monroe. So maybe like... Charlie V.

and Ben Gordon years. Yeah, I would say two. We got one time in 16 years. The 2016 Pistons. Yeah, one time. That was the Stan Van Gundy team with Reggie Jackson, Andre Drum and KCP, Tobias Harris. That was the only above average,

or at least above average by median offense in the league. that the pistons have had. Robney's stuck. He never got them. Never quite. To the top half of the league? That's insane. Brandon Knight didn't.

This new Austin Day was going to take this thing to the next level. Just name and pacers now. Here's my question with Cade because I think we're all relatively high on him. I'm bought in. I'm born in. Here's my thing.

I love Cade and I just love just the kind of sense of pace that he brings to an offense, just very measured and controlled and all that. It does feel like more of an orchestrator who needs more guys around him, so I'm not surprised that he's been better as more talent gets into the starting lineup. I'm a little concerned, though,

that he wasn't able to make a meal out of what was in the fridge earlier in the season. Like, if I'm talking number one draft pick, superstar, regular All-Star, that's kind of what I want from that. And I know that's, like, maybe a little bit unreasonable, but that's kind of what you need from him rather than just, oh, I'm going to,

I'm going to hit everybody and we're going to do this family style. I guess if I want to torture this metaphor. I don't think Cade is going to ultimately be a contextless superstar. I don't believe that. I think he's going to need pieces that are complimentary around him to do what he does. Now, you know, the guy that comes to mind for me is Jamal Murray, who everybody understands is great. But nobody thinks that he would go in any context and just start. killing people. Now I'm not saying

Cade needs Yokic who like to me is like he's walking next to Giants. I'm talking about LeBron and Jordan and like some of the best guys to me. I thought you're going to say Jesus. I thought John the Baptist was coming out for sure. He's walking on water. And Jordan and Jesus

is crazy. I'm not saying he needs that but I think he needs compliments for sure. I don't think he's just this bona fide, give him the ball, elevate every single thing, whether it makes sense around him no matter what. I don't think so. The pieces have to be complimentary.

But I think, man, he's going to be damn good when they figure out a proper roster around this guy. Well, will they figure out a proper way to manage that roster and to play? Because, look, we've had a lot of goodwill for Monty Williams on this podcast over the last few years when he was in Phoenix in particular. Justin didn't when he was in New Orleans. No, not so much. But whatever goodwill he had has been squandered and the public confidence has been squandered. He came after me and the New York media.

That's when he was done. He's paid so much money. It's hard to imagine the piss in just parting ways with him. And so whatever you think about the job Monty has done this season, that's the job more or less he's going to be doing, I would imagine. Like you want to factor in some capacity for change

and adjustment on his part, but this is who he is. is. And he's going to continue to make more or less similar types of decisions. And those decisions have been a big problem for Detroit this year, if we're being honest. Troy Weaver, also in his fourth season, going to be presumably going

into his fifth season next year. That's a recruiting class. Like, I think that is the length of time where, like, you should be able to show something. He's the Ron Zuck of NBA GMing. That's a college football reference. Yeah, I got nothing on that one. It's a good one.

Yeah. Unfortunately, here he is. just trying to fight people in the stands, which again, who among us? Bet the NBA with a no-sweet same-game parley from Fandul every Thursday with TNT Thursdays. It doesn't matter if you're new to Fandle or already have an account. You'll get bonus bets back if your same-game parley doesn't win on any NBA on TNT game. NBA same-game parlays are the perfect way to combine your bets for a chance to score a bigger payday. So we're looking at Wednesday in the NBA. let's do Lakers

minus three against the Kings. I know the Kings had that comeback against them the other night, but I like the Lakers out for revenge on the road and give me D-Lo 20-plus points at plus-130. I think we tried this a few weeks ago, but we're doing it again because pretty much every other game D-Lo's

in the range for 20 points. So Lakers minus 3, D-Lo, 20-plus points. However, you want to play, just head to Fandul.com slash Ringer MBA to bet the NBA with a no-swet same game parlay with TNT Thursdays. That's Fandul.com slash Ringer MBA.

Make every moment more with Fandul, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem, call 1,800 gambler or visit the ringer.com slash RG. Minimum three-leg parlay required. Refund issued as non-witrable bonus batch which expire seven days after receipt.

Max refund $5 unless otherwise specified. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook. fandal.com. All right, so my number four is the Brooklyn Nets, unfortunately. And here's what keyed them over a team like, for instance, the Atlanta Hawks

who I do not have on my list. Hawks not on my list. No, me either. Because they're in similar situations where it's like, oh, we have something, but maybe we don't have it. They're not in similar positions. Trey is a different caliber of player. Well, here's the main

distinction probably. The next have nothing, Justin. Well, hold on. The Nets have the Sun's draft picks, which at the very least could be traded for something else. They're very far off in the future. They don't start until 2025 and stretch into 2029. But like, you could just scale back and wait for that window or trade those in order to accelerate this window. So there's like, there's a possibility there.

The problem is Bridges is the guy there. And unfortunately, he's only on two years after this season. And we've all come to the agreement. he's probably a two, worst case, most pessimistically, a three on a very good team. He's a three.

I think he could be a two. But other than that, there's not much there. And if he isn't even locked in, I'm just kind of startled that they didn't trade him at the deadline. We heard reports that like maybe it was Jalen Green

plus all of their picks back. Like, had they gone that route, they wouldn't be on this list for me. But right now, I'm just like, it seems like they're going to have to reboot soon unless this Brooklyn market

attracts two superstars, and free agency like they did a few years ago, which doesn't seem like it's going to happen. I don't see the logic of this crew. So where are they for you? Number two. They're the number two most hopeless for me. I haven't met three.

Three. Okay. They're number two because it's, what, like, Michael Bridges is a nice player. I think that end of season outbursts got us hyped, you know, six-foot-eight guy, handling the ball,

taking over games. They're like, oh, The Nets, they have an all-star type of guy in their midst. You know, they just kind of fell into this after the KD deal. He's not that. He's a high-quality player. I think he's finally realized that his actual bread and butter is stopping people on defense, and he should probably concentrate his energies on being the best versions of himself,

which is a defensive stopper who can plug certain holes on offense. you know, not to, like, I don't want to denigrate the guy's offensive game. He's a good player on offense. He's just not a driver of quality offense. And then what? And then what? And, like, what is there on this team to be excited about? There's nothing.

And so to me, this is the most hopeless crew. And I don't know what evidence of documentation that Sean Marks got on Joe's side. But he continues to steer the ship. And these crazy directions in my opinion. And so I don't know, man. I don't see how you can be excited at all for what the Nets might do in the future. They feel pretty rudderless.

And a lot of that is just when you're in this position where you've traded away your own draft future and you've inherited the Sons, you don't have any control over your timeline anymore. Like you could package some of those picks into a trade to try to accelerate things. But for the most part, you're dependent on when things take a turn for Phoenix.

And I'm assuming Devin Booker is going to be a part of that team for a minute, and that is quite a floor to have as far as a franchise goes. As the Nets are experiencing right now, like when you don't have a player like that, this is where you end up languishing in the middle, uncertain of how to get the star guy that will give your team hierarchy, and staring down some free agent decisions on guys like Nick Claxton, for example, who's going to be unrestricted, going to demand some money. And if you pay him, you're not really going to be a Capspace player.

Right. And if you don't, you don't own your own picks. Yep. It's like every year it's out. Very complex janga situation there. I guess the one reason why I have them at four as opposed to higher on this list is just the possibility that they could go for the now swing a star player and then all of a sudden it's bridges start player and then stuff, which is like fine. And then you build from there. But I agree with you guys overall. It's just it's bridges and what else.

And the what else includes Ben Simmons. It technically does. I guess on the bright side, he only has one more year left on his year, but to suffer through another Ben Simmons news cycle, I don't think any of us even has the heart for it, let alone Sean marks. Another Ben Simmons summer of sizzle wheels coming up. Justin, what's the state of things on Ben Simmons Island? Have people started eating each other yet?

They've started a cult. Like, what you call it? What's the freaking Showtime show? Oh, what is that called? You're talking about yellow jackets? Yeah, they started a cult like yellow jackets on Ben Simmons Island. I think I need multiple medical degrees in order to give you a proper assessment of Ben Simmons because I don't know.

It seems like he just comes up with different nerve issues, back issues, etc. Every four to six months at this point? he's played 57 games since the 2021 playoffs. Good Lord. It's 2024. It is 2024. It's three years ago. Well, even when you were laying out the timeline, Justin, for like what the

sons picks are, and you're talking about picks going to 2029. It's like the Nets could go to 2027 or 28 and still be in more or less this position. We're not going to be alive. That's a cold comfort, but it's a comfort. Aaron Rogers is going to. to have the nuclear codes. We're just going to be doing this pod

from Ben Simmons Island. All right, so they're my number four. So you guys have picked off five, four, three for me. Oh,

and two. So I'm down to my number one. Rob, what's your highest left? My highest left is also my number one team, which I have to imagine we're in alignment.

Do you have anyone other than one? Yeah, I have two. No, no, I have one other than one. Yeah. Okay. So we all have the Washington Wizards then.

Washington Wizards is number one with a bullet. Number one with a bullet. Number one with a bullet. Do we want to start? Well, can I start you with this? So they got absolutely blitzed last night by not only the Grizzlies G team, but probably like an overseas team. I don't know what's below G.

X team. I guess that would have been the way to go there for the joke. But anyway. Beijing? I think they scored 93 points in that game. After it, the quote is, we disrespected the game, we disrespected ourselves.

I don't disagree. You got rocked by Trey Jemison. Yeah. It's crazy. Speaking of like, what do they have here with some of these other teams? Kisbert. Yeah, who's the best player on the winners?

Avdia? Who's the best player in the ladies? Carl Kuzma. far. It's not even close. It's Kuzma by far. But you could make the argument that in some of the games of season, Marvin Bagley was one of their better players. And that's, I don't mean that as any kind of compliment.

It's not Avdia? He's been honestly really solid. I know we gave him some shit in the preseason, but he could play, but Kuzma's their best player. Sure. The bright spots are, Balaulal Kulabali, a solid season from Denny Advia, and whatever

Kyle Kuzma's future is, I would imagine, be a trade. Although, do you guys remember when he said he wanted to stay in Washington at the deadline to try to build something? Yeah. Instead of going to Dallas. Like, whatever you think about playing around Luca,

like, that must have been better. I don't think, I don't think that was candor on Kuzma's part. I think that was just professionalism on a guy who's an ultimate pro and a gamer. And it's just like, I know I was on the block. I'm back. I'm happy to be here. I'm going to do my best to make things work.

I don't think that was, this is great. I can't wait to be in D.C. or Northern Virginia for the rest of my career. That is, it's just bleak, man. And even if you like Kula Bali, I think we need to see a lot more from him. It's early days. We haven't even mentioned Jordan Poole, and I think that's for a reason. There were people who thought, sorry, Zach Harper, that he would win the scoring title this year.

It's just bad. I just, and of course. you know, they have notoriously some of the worst ownership in the league. And it's important that we bring that up. Like, there's a reason why Ted Leonis' team is always at the bottom of the standings.

He's poor at managing the operation. He sucks at it, actually. He's one of the worst that we've ever seen. And so, yeah, it's bleak because ownership can't get displaced. Their incompetence doesn't get displaced. In fact, it gets rewarded with

massive profits year after year. And so this is what Wizards fans have to look forward to. If I want to play Optimus, which, let me just say here, I have met number one. So I'm really digging. Yeah. I mean, it's cherry blossom season in D.C. You know, it's great. Oh, good for them.

Those jerseys pretty cool, you know? Love their jerseys. The anthracite ones where it's like orange and like teal. Like, what the fuck are y'all doing? Anyway, I will say they ripped the Band-Aid. and I think a lot of the consternation is deserved but on the other hand it's kind of expected

and we do this typical thing with teams that bottom out where it's like going into the preseason we're like oh they needed to tear this down to the studs and rebuild that was in their best interest to do so and then by the end of the season we're like this is an abomination how could they do that

and then the offseason's like oh they need to bottom out for another year or two and then we just go through the cycle where it's like once we see it play out we have a different reaction than what we think in a broad sense. So, like, at the very least, I give them credit for moving on

for Bradley Biel. Didn't get much, but, you know, oh, well. I get the logic of taking a flyer on Jordan Pool. Didn't work out, but, oh, well.

I mean, it's been one of the most cursed transactions we've seen in a long time. He looks depressed. I, like, he, like, this is the thing. Like, I know you say

that we're complaining about them being an abomination, but they're an abomination. Like, there are lots of awful teams, but never do I, I feel the cold group of despair, like when it comes time for me to watch

the Wizards play basketball. I will say Kulabali, though, like, yes, incredibly young. He doesn't even turn 20 until July. That's like, if you're looking for hope, he's going to be legit. Yeah, it's like the type of move where, like, oh, you saw something in this guy and drafted him a little higher than was expected,

and it turns out it might be right. And, like, that's the type of guy and the type of draft picks that you need to get to line up, especially after years and years of bad draft picks that Kisper. that Johnny Davis is, etc. To go through, I've said this a bunch. The hardest thing in the NBA...

Yeah, I mean, even I'll do until this year. But, like, the hardest thing in the NBA to do is to screw up a rebuild and then say we need to do it again because that's when people just aspire to the middle and the fact that they're actually tearing it down and trying again deserves some credit. Having said that, you're still the worst situation

in the league, good luck. Yeah. The worst defense in the league by a wide margin, the worst vibes in the league by a mile. It's tough. Yeah, there's nothing to recommend about this team. That you guys are still chugging along on league pass with these guys. God bless you.

The early 4 p.m. Pacific Time. It's usually pretty barren. It's either that or the Hornets, and I've watched too many Hornets games at this point. We've had some real, like, worst game of the year candidates recently, but this one with the Grizz, this is really something else. So, Wizards is all of our number ones. Did you guys have Charlotte on your list? I did not.

Charlotte's on my list. I had him last cut. Yeah. They're number three because one, as much as I've been a lamello ball apologist, he still basically hasn't played. And now he's on a max extension.

He's not being paid not to play. So that is troublesome and worrisome. They are tied at the hip, apparently to Miles Bridges, who has looked like a Hooper. Like, nobody's ever denied that the guy can't play, but obviously there's some toxicity around all of that. And they've decided that they are married to whatever his future in the league is.

And the one bright spot, Brandon Miller. Pretty good. I was right about Brandon Miller. I watched two SEC tournament games last year. Foster Domus really coming in big. Lamar Odom, Paul George, hybrid, whatever. And they have new ownership, which is great because, again, and I have to bring this up,

the reason why Mike's teams fucking sucked because he stunk as an owner. He was terrible. He's gotten rid of the team. Maybe this new ownership group will be more competent. Maybe they won't just hire all of their college buddies and golf buddies to run the team, right? They won't hire. The assistant coaches, pennies on the dollar. Or, like, won't have rehire a coach like two years after you fired.

guy for incompetent. Like, whatever. Whatever. There's reasons for optimism, but, man, I don't know, man. Like, Lamello was a fun, exciting guy, but he has to play. He's too young to have missed all of these games, man. And so that's why, to me, it feels very troublesome what they're doing up there in Charlotte. So by net rating, worst team in the league, minus 10 and a half. And actually, that's the worst since OKC in 2020, 2020. So the actual team has not been good.

As was mentioned, Lamello, 22 games played this year. That's crazy. Seems like he was going to come back at a certain point, but hasn't played now since late January. I assume he's just done for the season. And so that is a big honking issue. And so if you can't get around that, I understand it. But I think just the logic, one of at the trade deadline, taking a step back as opposed to some of these other teams, pearl clutching and not doing anything, actually selling on Washington

etc to get assets back. Very smart. Gives me hope for the future for this organization. And then just the core of Miller, LaMello, and Bridges, who good player, bad human, like, that makes a lot of sense to me. And that is pretty fucking good, yes.

And so if we're moving forward with that in mind, I'm like, okay, two years from now, I could see it. I think the combination of those things, the ownership change, the front office change, clearing the decks, with guys like Rozier and Gordon Hayward and really ushering in a new era

for the organization, that's what kept them just out for me. But if we're going to be honest, like I have Portland at five, it's a pretty flimsy line between Portland and Charlotte. But one has Mietch, and the other does not. It certainly does.

Have you seen Meechus lately starting, passing it? Somebody's looking completely baffled on defense whenever he has to move his feet. But like, so, so, because, you know, some of my worst tendencies

thinking about this stuff is just around the assholes on the internet like that's Yoavich for me where I'm like, see this motherfucker can play! Pat Riley was right. We got a Yoavit Shruther,

we got a Mietzschuthr. I've never been more proud of group chat than today. Do you guys have anybody else you considered? I had the Hawks on the short list. I think the hawks are cut above,

to be honest with you. They have more talent. It's just a matter of picking a path. The only thing that I'm concerned about is that unlike the Nets, for instance, they don't have another team's future to supplement their lack of a future. And so they could be giving

some pretty juicy picks to the Spurs here. They only have the Sacramento pick coming down the road. So they're pretty much boxed into whatever they have. Luckily, they do have young guys to believe in Jalen Johnson. And the only team you could consider as well as the Raptors,

but even them, I'm like, at least they stop getting high on their own supply, right? At least they've decided like, all right, it's time to do something different finally instead of smelling our own farts every single day. And so I'm proud of them for doing that. But you could look at what they're doing and say, hey, man, this isn't all that exciting.

But, you know, they've clearly changed course, and I have confidence that they could get things right. Yeah. And it landed to be even a cut above a team like Brooklyn in the standings with the kind of season that they've had, And I agree that they don't have a lot of extra draft capital from other teams necessarily. But if it ever came time to trade, Tray Young, they would. They would get that.

So, like, they can go to Brooklyn's place whenever they want to, I would say. But what they have right now is a star who's far and away better than anyone that the Nets have or that the Raptors have. Like, they have a different kind of talent. And what they do with that is up for discussion. Like, we argue about the Hawks all the time and what they need to do and what their deficits are. But I just don't see them as being in quite as depressing a place. as some of these other teams. All right, let's wrap it there.

Thank you to Carlos Chiraboga for filling in on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to our team on the video side of things. We'll be back on Sunday. We'll see you then. Must be 21 plus and present

in select states, Fanduel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC gambling problem. Call 1,800 gambler, or visit Fanduel.com RG in Colorado, Iowa,

Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and Vermont. Call 1-800 Next Step or text Next Step to 533-4-2 in Arizona. 1-88-789-77-7-7 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. 1-8009 with it in Indiana, 1-800-522-470470 or visit KSgamblinghelp.com in Kansas, 1877-770 stop in Louisiana. Visit MD gamblinghelp.org in Maryland.

visit 1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia or call 1-800-522-470470 in Wyoming. Hope is here. Visit Gambling helpline, MA.org, or call 800-327-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 187-8 Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.