The Ringer NBA Show - (Not) Jockeying for Playoff Matchups | The Mismatch

Episode Date: March 26, 2019

Jusuf Nurkic’s horrific leg injury takes the air out of the Portland Trail Blazers’ postseason ambitions (1:00), the variability of playoff seeding in the Western Conference makes matchup-jockeying impossible (20:15), and the NCAA's March Madness sheds more light on NBA draft prospects (46:55). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Liz Kelly. As we approach the final season of Game of Thrones on April 14th, the ringer is providing you with a deep dive on the show's first seven seasons and what to expect from season. Up on the website, staff writers like Alison Herman, Alyssa Bresnak, Zach Kramm, and many more are analyzing what loose ends the show needs to address in the last season. Up on the video side, our resident Game of Thrones experts, Mallory Rubin and Jason Concepcion are breaking down the show's top 25 moments in the 25 days leading up to the final. You can find each day's videos up on our social channels like Facebook and Twitter and the compilation videos on YouTube.com slash the ringer at the end of each week. And make sure to keep an eye out for even more Thrones coverage coming from us as we get closer to April 14th. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Join me as he does every Tuesday from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Conflict, aka Kevin O'Conflict, A.k.k.a. Kevin O'O. Conflict. Chris, what's going on? How are you doing today? I'm doing good, but unfortunately with this particular show, we have to start off with what was devastating news for the Portland Trailblazers last night. Late in the game, after having an unbelievable game, Yusuf Nurkich ended up having a compound fracture of his leg.

And so this is a very, very devastating injury, to say the least, especially for, for a big guy. Compound fractures in his tibia and fibula in what was a double overtime win against the Brooklyn Nets. But he jumped up for a rebound. He came down awkwardly in a tangle of bodies. And you could see everybody on the court knew what had happened immediately. Obviously, the guy was in total agony. Lillard and all the others were quoted as saying they were sick to their stomach.

you could see all the players. It was one of those where people knew immediately that this is very, very bad. And for a team that has been playing so incredibly well and certainly in very serious contention for home court advantage and to hold on to home court advantage as they hold on to the four spot right now, it was just so, so awful to see. and losing Nerkich is obviously going to change their prospects a great deal. It's awful, Chris. The first thing I saw when I woke up this morning, because I'm on the East Coast right now, I did not see the game live last night. And it's just especially sad for Nerkich because of his progress as a player.

This is the best season by far of his career. As somebody who, you know, going back to when he was playing overseas, he always struggled with inconsistencies and decision-making on the floor. And this was his best year. in terms of just bringing intensity every single possession. He improved as a passer and was so important to what Portland does.

And looking forward with this team, obviously, like, it goes without saying you hope for the best for Yusuf Nurkich and his recovery, and you hope he's able to get back, whether it's late next season or the following season. You hope he can get back. But for the Portland Trailblazers, I'm not sure how you can replace Nurkj.

He has become an irreplaceable player for this team with how important he is to their defense. He has been a really good room protector for them. And also on the offensive end of the floor, they've run so much pick and roll with Damian Lillard. And Nerkrich often is that screener for him, opening up shots for Lillard, but also being a guy who receives passes from Lillard

and then distributes to others on the short role. I don't know how you replace this guy. There's options with Enos Cantor and maybe Zach Collins steps up. But Nerkich has certainly elevated his play to becoming an irreplaceable player, which is a testament to his work ethic. and the player development in Portland.

Well, and when we're talking about the potential matchups for them, you mean, you've got Nurkich when you're going up against Yokic, when you're going up against Capello, when you're going up against Gobert, when you're going up against Stephen Adams. I mean, these teams now all have somebody banging and that have the potential to grab 15 rebounds. And so does he, right?

That's what he can bring to the table. And certainly a guy that can really punish you for going small. I just feel horrible for the Trailblazers and their fans today because it's this, this is obviously not the way you want to see it play out. And it does distort whatever kind of season, you know, it will always be the unknown. Whatever their ceiling was, we now know, unfortunately, they have virtually no chance of reaching said ceiling with him being out. No, exactly. I mean, you look at simply looking at the numbers, the Nerkich-Lillard-M.

McCollum trio when those three are on the floor in 1,654 minutes, which is a lot of minutes for this season, those guys outscore opponents by 10 points per 100 possessions. And when you simply pull off Nurkich from that lineup in 351 minutes, they get outscored by 6.1 points per 100 possessions. So there's a drastic difference when you're replacing Nurkich with either Cantor or Leonard or Collins. And moving forward, the way the Portland. Trillblazers to defend pick and rolls by dropping the big man to the paint.

Cantor obviously, infamously, Billy Dunneman saying can't play canter is going to hold true. Teams are going to attack Camembery possession. Myers-Lonard is not as poor of a defender as Cantor, but he's not a plus defender either. So I wonder if maybe the responsibility at some point will fall on Zach Collins, who is a good defender as a second-year player in the league drafted 10th in 2017 but he as you just said chris like with the true bigs in the west the sheer size a guy like yokech has or someone even like clintz capella strong and long and athletic uh a rudy gobert type i just think it's a lot to ask zach collins is a second year player who isn't fully physically developed yet to handle that responsibility but at some point they're going to have to

because you already know you're not going to get the defense you need from canter or leonard and may have to come from Zach Collins. And, I mean, we talk about what he can bring to the table defensively. I mean, offensively, we have talked about how they've had trouble. They've had trouble finding the third guy. Like, you know you've got two elite level scorers on that team. Who's the third guy you can really count on? Or if I lined them all up, who were you taken third?

And I have expressed questions about this when it comes playoff time because what we have seen from the Trailblazers is in one-off games, it is a different deal than when you are playing them in the playoffs and you can really hone in and just say, all right, if we don't let these guys get to 50 and 60 combined, they're going to have a really tough time putting up enough points to be able to beat us unless Nurkich kills us. Well, now that answer becomes, you know, Aminu, Evan Turner, Mo Harcliffe, I mean, it's just, it's guys that you have no idea or would be surprised if they have big playoff performances. For sure.

And like with Narkut especially, what made him so valuable as that third wheel, the third score for this Blazers team is because most of his points come from the pick and roll as a roller towards the rim. And that typically would also directly involve Damien Lode, who's your number one guy. So you have your first and third best scorers, best players involved in a single action,

which made that such a devastating combination. And again, I don't know how you replace that. I know you can't replace that. You can't replace Houston of Nerkut. You're going to have to change the way you play or just take what you can get from somebody else. But with Nerkich this year, according to Synergy Sports, he's logged 286 possessions in the pick and roll, finishing possessions in the pick and roll. That's fourth behind Miles Turner, Lamarcus Aldrich and Nicola Vucevic. Fourth most in the league, that's a lot to replace.

And they've run far more ball screens than that, of course. I believe there's a stat somewhere out there that's been floated around that that they've run more ball screens than any other combination in the league. Nurkich and Damien Lillard, that is. And by the way, Chris, C.J. McCollum also has not been that good the season either. So he's somebody who, if you're looking for production to help replace Nurkich on the offense end of the floor or help overcome the defense you're going to lose with more offense.

McCollum is somebody who's going to have to elevate his play to a level that we saw from him two years ago during the 16-17 season, which was his best overall. This year he's not been nearly as efficient as he was that year in terms of his volume. He needs to elevate his play to an even higher level. Where's Capella on that list? I know by virtue of missing so many games

that he would have to be farther down, but that would have been, off the top of my head, I would have said this whole finishing pick and rolls. When I think of that, I obviously go to him. And honestly, the second guy I thought of when you said that,

and you were reeling off the names, I would have been wrong on probably all of those. I would have said Capella, and I would have probably said Montres Harrell. Yeah, that's total possessions for what it's worth. Right. In terms of who's,

you want to know who's first on the list in terms of possessions per game? Yeah. Take a guess. Who's first in possessions per game? I would have said Capella. It was a player who was traded, mid-season.

Oh my goodness. It's Marcusol. Markosol was first with five, point one per game. Wow. With the Grizzlies, not post trade. Post trade, it's actually

quite interesting. Post trade, Marcusol would not be very high on the list at all. In fact, Marcusole with the Grizzlies logged a total of 269 possessions

as the pick and roll screen or either popping or roll into the room with the Vrapters, it's only been 34. And that's an 18 games, not many at all. So his style of play

has drastically changed in Toronto. Wow. Arcapella Harold on that list? Is that one of those things that your eyes? They're high up, yeah, in terms of possessions for a game, yes. Yeah, I got you.

All right, speaking of 18 games, how about this for a segue? So last night, I saw Oklahoma City in person, and they came to Memphis and they lost to a team that, I mean, the Grizzlies had like nobody. There's no Mike. Mike Conley didn't play. Jokie. No one didn't play. Obviously, no Kyle Anderson, no CJ Miles. No Avery Bradley, like seriously, eight of their top nine rotation guys were not in this game last night.

And they beat Oklahoma City, who now, as I mentioned, 18 games, they are 6 and 12 in their last 18 games. And that's not a small sample size. That's teetering towards a fourth of the season when you're talking about 6 and 12. You can say with some of these teams, especially that have some veterans on them, that you just kind of coast and these are the dog days. And so you're seeing some very strange outcomes night in, night out. Like last night we saw the magic just demolish the Philadelphia 76ers. I mean, there's some strange stuff that is happening on the scoreboard every night. But this is not a one-off.

This is now 18 games that they have logged 6 and 12. And I thought they were a mess. And the other thing is one of the benefits of getting to see a team in person that you can't necessarily pick up on television is how they interact with each other. And I have seen teams that have come through this year and whether it was the Nuggets or whether it was the Pacers or whether it was Brooklyn. There are teams that stand out to me. The Bucks certainly that they just appear to have very good chemistry on that team, enjoy playing with each other. it feels like they're always talking, communicating, dapping each other up, giving high fives and whatnot. This Oklahoma City team last night, I mean, it looked like five guys playing their own sport.

And obviously, Westbrook has not been the same guy at all. And when he's not making hard shots, and he's not making hard shots, it becomes a massive negative for them. But just beyond that, it just felt, I don't know. There was just something really off. And I didn't necessarily feel that way when I've seen them earlier in the season. And I don't know what happened with them. And maybe it's just they'll flip the switch when it comes playoff time. But I certainly think it's disconcerting to see them.

And just watching them interact with each other, there was so little communication and appeared to be so little chemistry with that team. And, I mean, they have no business losing like they did last night in the manner that they did. I mean, Tyler Dorsey was not playing for the Hawks and started at point guard last night and had big numbers. I mean, I don't know, man. The Oak City looked like a mess, Kev. You're burying the lead here, Chris. Bruno Cabockel scored a career high at 24 points, and he was in primarily by Paul George and Jeremy Grant.

How about that? No, you know he is famously the guy that Fran Fischella on draft night said he's two years away from being two years away. What a great line, by the way. Right away, that line was a hit. And so now everybody's like, hey, it's four years or what? It's been a while, but here it is, right? But yeah, it was a career high for him. But, I mean, obviously, the story is Oklahoma City.

And, like, you see a night, like last night, and it's not just last night. It's six and 12. This is a team that I thought could give the Warriors possibly the biggest problems. And I just do not feel that way. I know you have recounted George has not been the same player since he has come back from the shoulder injury. I will tell you that I was at the arena early yesterday. And he was laying on a table in the hallway. They were working on his shoulder for a long time.

So, I mean, it takes a lot of prep. Something's up. Yeah, it takes a lot of prep for him to even get out there. Yeah, there was one play in the third quarter in last night's game where Caboclo attacked a closeout, which was how he scored most of his points last night. It's not like he was isolating, like, the Brazilian Kevin Durant, as he was also called. He was attacking a lot of closeouts. But anyway, on attacking this closeout, he went past Paul George,

and George has had a couple moments over the past couple weeks where he just stops on the play. and he looked like he was in serious pain. He didn't grab his shoulder or anything like that. He might have, you know, got hit in the stomach or something, but still he clenched and was in pain. And I do wonder if that's still related to the shoulder injury. But something's clearly up with him.

He has not produced the same on the offensive end of the floor. Shooting numbers are down across the board. And defensively, he has not been quite the defensive player of the year candidate. The guy who possibly might have won it pre-injury. And as you said, Chris, this entire team has just been nothing. the same. Do you get the sense watching them live? You mentioned the chemistry, watching them

on the bench and everything and on the court. Does it feel like to you that they're more coasting or is there just something deeper that's wrong with this team right now? Well, I just think that they are, you know, we get to the dog days and some teams do look like this. So I am willing to set that aside. The other thing is that's what they look like. If Westbrook and George aren't cracking, that's what they look like. I mean, this guy came out last night. George, he's four for 17 in the first half. You know what I mean? Like they're going to look bad.

Like all those other guys are role players. Everybody else on their team is a role player. Which by the way, one of these role guys that came off the bench, what's the kids name that went to Iowa State that's their two-way guy? I liked him. He can play. God, he looks like frigging a mini PJ Tucker. I mean, he's a brick house.

And I was thinking to myself, I'll be damned, man. That Iowa State team, they had frigging Monta, Mosey. Morris and this guy, and this guy's a player. That's what I thought. That was my impression, because I was like, who is that? I was like, Iowa State. Geez, and to go back and look at that Iowa State roster from a couple of years ago, their back court was Monta Morris and this dude?

I mean, it feels like we're mentioning Iowa State all too much for guys that are either second rounds or undrafted right over the course of the last couple of years. They've had some good ones come through the league in recent years. It's a good run for them. and then Talen Horton Tucker may be coming either this coming draft or the draft after that. Nader is a backup on the thunder as well. Handful of guys. Here's what I'm saying.

If those guys look like crap, that team looks like crap. Because you know that that is going to be what they've got going. And with Westbrook having a season with such a low percentages and with George now appearing to be, you know, every couple of nights, Yeah, he can look like the best player on the floor, but he went through a three-week span there where he looked like the best player on the floor every single night. And he looks nothing like that right now. And so there's partly that, right?

Is it a malaise because of the end of the season? Sure. But I would also tell you that, you know, much like they once upon a time were so dependent upon Westbrook and Durant, they are so dependent upon those two that when those two are not playing well, that team looks really bad. And when those two are playing great,

that team can look really, really good. And all too often, those two have been playing really bad, certainly over the course of the last 20 games. For sure. And part of the component here with OKC struggles is this has been a really tough stretch of their schedule, facing a lot of playoff teams who are still fighting for spots or teams that are just flat out great.

That's been part of the reasons for their struggles. But with that said, these are the teams you want to see OKC, competing against at a high level and they've been blown out a couple of times. The Memphis loss is obviously inexcusable. And heading into the playoffs, these are the types of teams that are going to have to beat to advance when people early in the year when they were at their peak, when they had that winning streak, I believe in late January or into early February, where the conversation

was, can they beat Golden State leaning on their elite defense? Right now, the question is looking like a very clear no. And they may not even be able to beat other top teams in the West, like the Nuggets, the rockets and, you know, unfortunately with the Blazers with Nurkert, but they, it would have been a question if they could have even have beaten them too. It's going to be tough for O KC, especially if they land in that eight seed and face goal and say it's going to be an early exit for them. Disappointing. And it's a tough sell on their defense when I just watched players nine through 17 on the roster throw over a hundred on them. I mean, yeah, it's like you just

watched like the 400th best basketball player in the world. It's unbelievable. 20 plus points. Yeah. It's crazy. Oh, by the way, like Tyler Dorsey can get buckets. Like I'm happy to see him get an opportunity.

I'm just saying, I just want to throw that out there. Tyler Dorsey is a bucket getter. It's been a slow start for him in the NBA. But that dude at Oregon and college, he could get buckets. And I wouldn't rule him out becoming a player. He's a spark plug.

Oh, yeah. Listen, he, I don't know if he's ever like a rotation guy, but if he's your 12th guy, you're doing good. You know what I mean? if he's your 12th or 13 guy on your roster. He's certainly an NBA player.

Well, by virtue of Oklahoma City losing last night, as you mentioned, they are now currently in the 8th seat. There's only a game separating 5 through 8 in the Western Conference. And the good news for Portland last night is while they are devastated with the Nirkich injury, that win was huge for them because it is a two and a half game lead on the jazz. And with only nine games left, they may be able to. hold on to at least getting to host a playoff series and keeping that home court advantage.

Jazz Clippers Spurs Thunder, though, you know, we've got a very interesting thing going on here, Kev, because at the end of the season, you could have, theoretically, both the Warriors jockeying, you know, to figure out, hey, well, we just as soon play whoever, and the Nuggets, because the Warriors, trying to hold on to that number one seat for dear life. And they're only a half game up on the nuggets. But maybe, you know, as we get to the very end of the season, they, they may jockey. They may look and say, wow, well, hell, the spurs are at eight or Oklahoma City's at eight.

So we'd rather play, you know, the Clippers or whoever is sitting at seven than have to play Oklahoma City in the first round. So we'll just drop this game. But it's all so close. I think it's going to be hard to be able to jockey. It's almost like these teams are just going to have to play it out and whatever, however it falls, it falls, right? Yeah, I think so.

The question for these teams really is going to be about, is it worth resting these guys and meaning sacrificing a potential spot? Or do you just play the season out? Like for Golden State, the question is, do you rest people for the playoffs or do everything you can to hold on to that one seed? Obviously, for them, they still have one more game against Denver on April 2nd. That's a national TV game. that game could be the determining factor between Denver and Golden State getting that one seed.

What would you do, Chris? If you're a GM, what would you be pushing for at this point? Just trying to win games out? Are you resting for the playoffs right now? It depends on how I feel about Milwaukee, honestly. Because I do think you look and you say, all right, we're going to be able to keep home court advantage in the NBA finals. If we fancy ourselves as a team that's going to be going for the championship, I do think that that could matter by the time it gets there. Now, if you think it's going to be Milwaukee, then, listen, you're not getting

there. You've got five less wins than them. So you're not going to pass them. Right. But everybody else you can. You could have a better record than everybody else in the East. And so that would play into my decision because I do think that, you know, these teams, they're so close that it stands to reason we could easily. I mean, I think in the NBA final, I think, in the NBA final, you know, I'm not, you know, finals, I think I would be surprised if it does not go six or seven games, whoever it is. Seriously. I don't think they're going to wipe somebody out. If it goes seven, you want that on your home court.

Oh, 100%. Yeah, of course. That goes about saying that. That's a good point, though. I hadn't thought about that. I guess it depends on how you're feeling about Milwaukee. But, I mean, no matter who it is, Toronto still has one more win, the Golden State for that matter, too. I think you've got to play this out and try to get home court.

Yeah. And the other thing is, in terms of determining your matchup, I just think it's too hard. You know, every single day, it changes. There's no real way to be able to jockey for the matchup that you want in the first round. You can't. You can't. Like the last day of the regular season, OKC faces Milwaukee.

Milwaukee could be wrestling everybody that game. Yep. That could determine where OcC goes, you know. That can be said for so many of the other matchups in the final day of the regular season, regardless of the conference. It's too tough to determine. Well, and I know that when you are talking about Golden State, if I'm them,

I got to get starting to feel good about myself. Because, yeah, I get it. It's another season where they're having to, you know, obviously the record is very good. There's a lot of teams that would love to have that record. But if you have watched them, they haven't been all there. And I'd want to start feeling like I'm playing good.

basketball and that I've got things going well heading into the playoffs rather than it be as disjointed as it has been over the course of the last 10-15 games. I'm in agreement with you there, for sure. Okay, let me get a few other things real quickly before we hit our break. Jason Kidd, what is this, Kevin? And like the name is out there. It's a headline yesterday. People are talking about Jason Kidd in the Lakers, and I'm like, what in the head?

hell? Like, is anybody watching the bucks? Like, is anybody watching the bucks? Is anybody watching the bucks? Jason, kid? Oh, boy. You'd rather have my kid. I don't understand, man.

I do not understand how this is happening. I don't know what to say, other than my reaction was pretty similar to yours. It's like, how can you look at what the Milwaukee bucks have done this season? obviously they had important personnel changing adding brookelopez he has been one of the more important additions of this last summer right adding brick lopez has changed everything for that team ursson a lia sova

for them as well never mind the player development from someone like malcolm brogden continue to get better that's all important but the coaching changes with budenholzer taking this just awful old school system that jason kid had implemented there for years and overhauling it on both ends of the floor how can you look at Jason Kidd and be like, we're going to hire this guy to fix the Lakers. I don't think it's going to happen. Stephen A. Smith, who has a direct line to Magic Johnson, said yesterday that it is not happening. He's not in consideration.

I would tend to buy that. But I'm sure Jason Kidd will receive some consideration somewhere, whether it's in the college basketball world or somewhere else in the NBA future. Because just because you failed the first time, it doesn't mean you couldn't have learned something from that going into your second head coaching gig. He was an incredibly smart player and he can be a good coach. but if you're the Lakers, he would not be the guy I would hire considering your situation.

You're going to have to find somebody else. Yeah, my first reaction was, is he a clutch client? Why is this even happening? Is he about to be on LeBron's HBO show like next week or something? Like I don't understand. What's happening here?

But whatever, hopefully that will blow over. I mean, if I'm Luke Walton, I'm like, oh, for God's sakes, really? Like this, I'm fine. If you're going to fire me, fire me, but don't do this. I mean, that is, go on. It's interesting.

Jason Kidd was on the jump yesterday, too. Oh, he was? Yeah, he was. I missed it. I missed yesterday. I guess getting the name back out there. With Rachel Nichols, Brian Windhorst, and Scotty Pippen. He was back in the mix, huh?

So he's getting his name. Back in the mix. Doing some media while looking for gigs. It's, I hope he gets an opportunity. Jason Kidd was a great player. Jason Kidd should be a great coach, by the way, right? Like he should be a great coach. I hope he gets an opportunity and has successful with it.

Even if it's going to college and then someday getting a NBA coaching gig, I want to see Jason Kidd to be a good coach. But right now, not looking good after that Bucks gig and the Nets gig for that matter too. You know, well, listen, I do not want to get people out there. You know, inevitably every week we do a show and they say, I'll get somebody on Twitter, say, how could you not mention blank, right? So here's me saying big congratulations to Devin Booker for scoring over 50 points and a 33 point loss. Very impressive.

Oh, that was wonderful. It is the perfect Devin Booker game, 59 points and a 33 point loss. Congratulations. It's always interesting. With Devin Booker, there's the talk about as he like a good stats on a bad team player. And maybe he is, but I don't think so. I think you look at Booker some of the things that he was doing last night, but not just last night, this entire season. There just aren't many guys that have put up the numbers that he has at his age historically.

And I don't want to go too down the Devon Booker path here. But I do think when Booker's surrounded by better teammates who can feed him the ball, he'll become a more efficient player because he's a great spot-up shooter, a great shooter off-scrower off-screens. And with his development off-the-dribble, he can be somebody who's a dynamic scoring option and off-ball actions. So I think overtime Devin Booker will prove to be much, much more than a good stats on a bad team player. I promise you by 2030, your bright future sons are going to fulfill your prophecy. So hopefully we're still doing this show in 12 years. My prophecy? You say my prophecy?

Your prophecy. Kevin O'Ponon. Oh, geez. Kevin O'Prompecise. I'm not sure my prophecy was other than like they're going to. They're going to be a contender at some point. That's my prophecy that the bright future sons will be a contender by 2030. Now, that's a hot take, right?

Yeah, they are by 2030. They have been a contender for the number one pick for the last decade. Oh, boy. All right, Kevin. We'll get right back to it. First, we want to talk about the NBA Watch of the Night. Well, we've been talking about the Western Conference. Coming up, we're going to be talking about the Eastern Conference.

and a huge battle between two of the elite teams from the respective conferences tonight. Houston at Millie Wauke, Algonquin for the Good Land on TNT 8 p.m. Eastern time. These two teams right now, obviously Milwaukee has got a good little lead for the number one seed in the Eastern Conference, and we will see if they are able to hold on to the overall best record. It appears nobody's going to be able to catch them. They're 7 to 3 in their last 10. They have won two games in a row heading into tonight, whereas Houston is 8 and 2 and their last 10, and they've won 2 in a row. They are three games back from the 2C, but because Portland won last night in that double overtime game against Brooklyn, they only hold a half game lead over the Portland Trailblazers.

So they are trying to hold on to that particular seed because obviously it stands to reason if you're four, you're going to feed into, at least as it stands right now, you're going to feed into the Warriors. So you know the Rockets desperately would like to hold on to the three spot at worst in the West. So the game certainly matter to them. And Milwaukee obviously wants to keep their grasp on that number one seed. Milwaukee is 30 and 6 at home this year. They've only lost six home games all season long. And so James Harden now gets his turn at Milwaukee tonight.

We'll see what kind of numbers he puts up against them. Two great teams. This is a great game. This is a great game. TNT 8 o'clock Eastern tonight. And remember, if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA League Pass on NBA. NBA.com or from your preferred video provider.

All right, kid, we've got to talk about the Easter conference, but first, I want to remind everybody, today's episode of The Mismatch is brought to you by the Microsoft Surface. The new Microsoft Surface Pro 6 can help you get things done, whether you're on the field or running a business. Take Brian Arakpo and Michael Griffin, two former NFL teammates who have opened up a cupcake shop with the Surface Pro, they can do everything they need, from setting schedules to creating promotions for social media and designing new flavors. Plus, it's light, super fast, and has a great battery life.

Brian and Michael are proving you can tackle all your passions with the power and speed of the new Surface Pro 6. We do need to mention the Eastern Conference. You know, let me give a quick shout out. This is a serious one to the Indiana Pacers. To lose Oladipo, and still now, they are 16 games over 500. They only got, whatever, I guess eight games left to play in the season. and they've got a two-game lead over the Boston Celtics holding on to home court advantage. Boston, who by the way has lost four in a row.

They just can't figure them out to say the least. But Indiana holding on to home court advantage a 28 and 9 record at home. And while losing their best player has been an unbelievable story that because they're not on TV a lot, because they are in a smaller market, because they do not have a bunch of huge names, I do not think has gotten the credit that it deserves. But they have been one of the great stories in the NBA. They are the one that is crashing the party in that Eastern Conference amongst we all expected at the beginning of the year. And this may end up being true that after they play seven game series, that it's going to be the Bucks, the Raptors, the Celtics, and the 76ers.

that those are going to be the last four teams in the Eastern Conference. And all year long, Indiana has been busting that up. And so I did want to give them some praise because every day I look at those standings and I'm like, damn, man, that is crazy. They are still a home court advantage team. And I think we all thought it's going to go the wrong way after you lose one of the best shooting guards in the NBA. But they've been very, very good, very good. a couple weeks ago, or maybe last month, I figured out when it was exactly,

but I got a handful of tweets that are like, why do you and Chris never discuss the Pacers? And like, I think we discussed them for like only four minutes on the podcast, something like that. It's like you got to discuss them more. To me, it's like with this Indiana team,

the amount that we've talked about them post-injury, I'm almost not sure what else there is to say about this team other than like it is remarkable what they've done with Bogdanovich stepping up on the offensive of the floor. taking on more ball handling opportunities on top of everything he already did impressively off the ball as a shooter coming off screens and handoffs. Like his development has really taken him to operational on entering his free agency this summer.

Miles Turner looking like a defensive player of the year candidate. DeMontasabonis, a sixth man of the year. The amount of gritty, hardworking smart defenders on this team. And then the job Nate McMillan has done for this roster as well, whether it's on the court or in the locker and post-Victor Oladipo injury. With this team, I'm not sure what else there is to say it,

except for like they have like a ton of good players who are elevating their play post-Olo-Dipo. It's just impressive and it's fun to watch. And for me at this stage, Chris, more than anything else, I'm just looking forward to seeing how this translates to the playoffs for them, right? Because the Celtics right now are reeling.

And if I'm Indiana, I'm looking at this Celtics team that cannot figure themselves out. And I'm looking in the mirror at myself at the Pacers and thinking, we know who we are. We are a gritty defensive team that plays smart offense and has Bogdanovich who is turned into a really good player. And I'm thinking, we can beat the Celtics and get a second round matchup without Victor Oladipo.

Indiana has a chance to win around the playoffs, especially if they get that first round series against the Celtics or if they even move up past Philadelphia. They're only two games back from them as well. Indiana could win a round of the playoffs. And I'm just looking forward to seeing how this team performs on a bigger stage at this point. Because we already know who they are in the regular season. They are a really good team with or without Victor Olipo. I just want to see how it translates at the next stage.

And I also want to thank Bogdanovich for his part in helping me learn about cultures. When I found out, and I guess this was last year, that the Bogdanovichs were not related. I was like, what in the hell? I was always, I just figured, right? I was like, what are you going to tell me? The dragages aren't related or the Morris twins aren't. Like, I mean, I just figured like, oh, there's two Bogdanovich's and, you know, I don't know. And then as I understand it, Bogdanovich is an extremely common name.

You know, somebody at one point was like, it'd just be like if there were two Smiths on a team in America. And I was like, really? Like, there's that many people named Bogdanovich? But anyways, yeah. And by the way, I love the one on Sacramento, too. both the Bogdanovich. Me too. Me too. Yeah. You know, Bogdan Bogdanovich's development as well over in Sacramento has been highly

impressive. It's cool to see him hitting game winning shots and clutch shots just like he did overseas. And then with Bogdanovich with the Nianna Pacers, man, like the funny thing is the manna heading into the summer is Bogdanovich has probably earned himself a lot more money just with his performance over the past two months because he's doing it all on the offensive end of the floor, averaging over 20 points per game since Ola Dipo. went down and doing it with great efficiency as well. That has not slipped for him at all like it does for other guys who get more shots and more touches. For Bogdanovich, it has not changed one bit. He's doing everything he did well before at the same level,

shooting off screens and doing off ball actions, but on the ball, taking on more pick and roll opportunities, he's been very, very productive. And if I'm a team looking for a, like a third tier free agent or second tier free agent in the Tobias Harris, Chris Middleton class, I'd be looking at Bogdanovich as well for someone who could be expensive, but a little bit, cost a little bit less than some of those other guys with bigger names and a longer history of success. Speaking of making themselves a lot of money, we mentioned the Celtics. Obviously, the Pistons have been a great story.

Brooklyn, Miami, those are the teams right now that are in the playoff race. Right behind them are the Magic, who got a very good win last night. And then, you know, two games back from that eight seed is, is the Hornets who have now won three games in a row, including one of the greatest buzzer beaters I've ever seen in my life from Jeremy Lamb. Oh, my goodness. That was the craziest. But they have won three games in a row,

obviously trying to get up there. They're two games back from Miami right now, and they have got nine games left to play in the season. Their star player and the guy that represented them in Charlotte on the All-Star team, is Kemba Walker, who for a good portion of the season, was playing absolutely out of his mind, looked like a guy that could, in fact, possibly make an all NBA team even. And I know that you've got an article up on the ringer.com

where you kind of looked at this end of the Charlotte season, what it means regarding the future of their franchise. And obviously, very importantly, Kemba's future, and what kind of paycheck he could be getting going into this offseason. Yeah, with Kimball Walker, obviously with the Hornets, you know, making the eight seat is not the greatest accomplishment in the Eastern Conference, but there are so many implications moving forward with whether they make it or not. For one, I think if you're looking at the all-NBA race for those last two guard spots,

it's pretty safe to say that Westbrook, Lillard, Curry, and Hardin, or Garniget voted in. It's about those last two spots, whether it's Clay Thompson, Bradley Beal, Ben Simmons, who will be eligible as a guard or Kemba Walker as well. If Kemba does get that nomination from voters, he will be able to earn about $30 million more dollars because of the Supermax. The question will be, I think, will voters put him in? Personally, I do think, just from the handful of reporters I've talked to before writing this article, I do think if Kemba leads the Hornets to the playoffs, it's more likely that he would get to vote in because you're dragging it. team that's like closing fourth quarters of Frank Kaminsky and you know that has Jeremy Lamb on the court at the end of games it's it's not a lot of talent around him if he's able to put the Hornets since the playoffs he's going to have more potential earnings which could directly

help Charlotte's chances of resigning kemba but hurt their flexibility moving forward but also there's the fact that if they don't make the playoffs or even if they do kemba is somebody who's heading into the summer he is not a guy like kawai leonard or Kevin Durant or even someone on the trade block like Anthony Davis, who was going to be a singular franchise changing player. But as we saw this past season with LeBron going to the Lakers, one of those guys on a team isn't enough. Katie going to the Knicks is not enough.

He needs Kyrie to go with him or Kemba to go with him. Kemba to me is one of the more interesting players from here to the summer because of the fact that he holds so much power in the sense that he can either stay in Charlotte and continue building his legacy there, and try to build something moving forward when they can eventually get cap space in 2021 or 2022. Or he's going to be somebody who is going to decide who the next contender is, whether it's joining LeBron on the Lakers, whether it's going to the Knicks, maybe with Kevin Durant or somebody else, or even going to a team like the Clippers

and sharing the backcourt with somebody like Cheyieldis Alexander and Kauai if he were to go there or somebody else. Kemba is the player who is not the top tier free agent, but he is the next level down and he can be that Robin to another star player's Batman in order to determine who the next contending team is in the NBA. And so much of it could have to do with what happens from here to the end of the regular season with whether or not Charlotte can make the playoffs, whether Kemba does enough to earn himself the All-MBA vote and whether he stays or goes.

It's going to be fascinating to see what happens with Kembo. Yeah, whether or not they can bring somebody in there, like you say, they can be the Batman in Charlotte or whether he goes and join somebody else. I mean, the thing you love about him is there's so many of these games that are close games that come down to the last three minutes of the game. And do you have a guy that can create his own shot and get you home? And he's going to be valuable for wherever he plays.

That is for certain because you love having a guy like Campbell Walker when it comes down to the end of the games. And you see, you know, I watch that Isaac's Clippers team, and they get down to so many close games. got Lou Williams. You're right? And they've got Gallo. The question is those kind of guys, they're not getting paid, certainly in the case of Lou, they ain't getting paid $30 million to do it. For sure. That's kind of, that's what the, that's what the check's going to be for Kimball Walker. I really don't know. I don't have a good read on that. And I have not talked to anybody that would be in the know about whether or not they feel certain Kemper Walker will play it out there. It might determine his decision too, Kev, whether or not he's, wants to stay there if they make the playoffs or not. Definitely. I mean, he, the word on the street, the past year plus, I mean, I remember Adrian Wurgenowski reported before the 2018 deadline that Charlotte was at least listening to offers for

Kemba Walker. This is before the 18 deadline. But what I've heard is like Michael Jordan from the start has been a firm no on any Kamba deal. And that was true also prior to this year's deadline when the Hornets didn't shop Kamba, but they could have. but they didn't because MJ just doesn't want to trade him. MJ, from what I've heard, loves Kemba Walker as a person as a player,

and he wants to keep him moving forward. Because with this Hornets team, if they lose Kemba, they don't have a choice. They don't even have a choice to tank. They're just going to be bad. They're just going to be really bad for quite a long time until they draft the next guy. They have no other choice but to be bad.

So like keeping Kemba at least gives them a star player that maybe, maybe in 2021 when they can open up cap space, maybe someone wants to tag along with him at that point. Maybe Charlotte at that point can offer more than other teams can. So I think keeping Kemba, there's really not much of a choice. You have to do it. But on the other hand, like you look at him and it's like he's somebody who's had three knee surgeries. He's somebody who is about to be on the wrong side of 30 in a couple years.

He's somebody who is a smaller point guard heavily reliant on his speed, agility, and explosiveness and athleticism in order to do what he does best as an on-ball presence. He's a limited defender. And if he does regress offensively in terms of his athleticism, he's always going to be an offensive player because he's so good off ball, it's so good off the catch, so good off screens and hand-offs that he's always going to be a presence on offense. But it's his on-ball playmaking that makes him such a tremendous player. And if you're the Hornets, there's also risk for them and investing that much money in somebody who is about to turn 30, smaller who has his injury history and you're going to give him essentially

John Wall money and as we saw with John Wall before the injury before the injury John Wall was considered an albatross contract even before it and moving forward with with Kemba with that money he would earn at the Supermax Chris he would earn 50.4 million dollars at age 33 for the 23 24 season and if it's not the supermax it would be 43.2 million that season at age 33. If you resign Kemba, you are probably stuck with him.

And maybe that's not a bad thing. If he stays healthy and continues producing the way he is, but it could be a very bad thing for your franchise if he regresses at all. So there's risk for Kemba and resigning with Charlotte, when there could be contenders out there that are knocking on his door trying to sign him. But there's also a risk for the Hornets as well and giving him the money, whether it's the supermax at the $220 million or at the regular max at the $1,000. I'm just so excited to see what happens, what he decides, what Charlotte decides, and so much

of it's going to have to do with whether or not he makes all NBA, which could be determined by Charlotte making the playoffs or not. Everybody's going to be looking forward to what happens with Kemba and those awards, and then a massive offseason for him. He does have a boatload of money on the line in these last nine games to say the least. All right, Kiv, I do got to ask you about the NCAA tournament and, most importantly, draft prospects. Oh, yeah.

I listened to the podcast that you did with Danny Chow and Jonathan Charks last weekend, talking about draft prospects. And this was after the first round games. And you guys led with John Morant. And I'm listening to this. And my God, I mean, like, for whatever, I don't know, for the first part of that podcast, you guys are picking apart John Morant, right? Like, he never plays defense and is he going to be able to shoot?

He's going, I'm sitting there listening to this and I'm like, what in the hell? Dude, John Morant is like, there ain't many sure things in this draft, but you watch that guy for five minutes. And yeah, maybe he doesn't play all that much defense, but I mean, he's got the ball in his hands, 40 friggin minutes a game. He's like the only guy, you know what I mean? This guy, he jumped up in. His whole damn neck is above the rim. He's got crazy vision. he's so far better than everybody.

I'm like, what the hell are these guys talking about John Morant picking him apart? Like, of all the guys that pick apart, he to me, like you got Zion and you got him. RJ, I will listen to being picked apart or reddish or whatever. But I ain't trying to hear no John Morant like in all the problems with him. John Morant is freaking unbelievable. Unbelievable, Kev. Y'all got to chill on that one. Here's the thing.

Every player should be picked apart. every player, whether it's their strengths or weaknesses, everything matters. And with John Morant, as you're saying, Chris, he is a tremendous prospect. He's, to me, the second best prospect in the draft. Whenever we start doing our rankings in the draft guide, I'm going to have him ranked second behind Zion Williamson. And like this weekend, he showed off that dynamic ability. Granted Murray State lost to Florida State.

Overall, John Morant showed off everything you wanted to see in terms of his passing ability and his playmaking and he had some sloppy turnovers and obviously he doesn't play a lick of defense, but it's okay. You know, it's okay if a player has weaknesses. I don't think, I don't have an issue with picking his weaknesses apart because those weaknesses matter because it's, the question would be is if his offense doesn't reach the level that you're hoping for. It's him being just this dynamic playmaking threat, scoring off the dribble, then how does he overcome that? He can do that with his passing and he could do that with his defense because he's somebody at six foot three with a six seven six eight wingspan you would hope that he can be better defensively uh he has similar body

to someone like dearon fox who is a good defender but even de aaron fox with his lean frame and thin body he's not somebody who can switch onto bigger guys and so for john morant you would hope at least he develops into a guy who can be a plus defender against point guards even if he's never going to be somebody who he can rely on switching against bigger players it's not a bad thing that's not a bad thing necessarily. It's just currently a weakness for him that he was just, I was having, I was having, I was having Bagley flashbacks with that. I'm like, we these guys stop already with the friggin Marvin Badley doesn't defend anybody. I'm like, what the, what are they talking about? Like, stop it already. All right, like, look up and down the league. We're not, listen, do you think

Damien Lillard's okay? Is anybody sitting there putting him on an all defensive team this year? I mean, the majority. Lillard has his own issues too. Lillard does. Yeah, I get it. Kyrie Irving. I mean, listen, almost every awesome player in the league. there's very few that are the Jimmy Butler's or the Kauai Lennards or the amazing two-way players, right? But the idea that, you know, it's a big knock. If you are, it's not a big knock. To be clear, it's not a big knock. You guys spent 15 minutes talking about everything wrong with John Morant.

That's what you did. I mean, I think we talked a lot about what's right with him too. No, you didn't. Which is shot creation, his athleticism, his touch, and his ability to, I mean, the big question with Jod's like forget the defense it's going to be the development of his jumper and what he showed over the weekend hitting some some three point shots off the dribble his shot creation ability is not a question at all he's going to enter the league and immediately be one of the best ball handlers in the NBA he's already at the college level one of the best ball handlers in the

world so that there's no question about that it's just about how does his shot develop he obviously has touch whether it's around the rim whether it's from the free throw line and when he has space on spot up jumpers It's about what level does he reach as a shooter? Can he become a great shooter, a good shooter, or is he going to continue to be an average shooter off the dribble? The shot, to me, is the biggest question with him. But there's no question he's going to be a good point guard with his passing ability and his athleticism. It's just a matter of can he be a great or an elite point guard.

And that's why I think those issues are being nitpicked, because that's the amount of potential he has that it warrants putting him under a microscope. He will be a huge star, huge. star. That is my opinion. I'm curious. If the Memphis Grizzlies don't get the number one pick, he would be the guy you would want with the number two pick is someone to learn. To me, there is like a gulf between him and whoever would be next. I think that's very fair. A huge gulf. I feel that, I feel that strongly about him. I do want to tell you about a couple other things real quick, draft-wise. So I'm going to give you guys a lot of credit at the ringer. I don't know who comes up

with all of these comps and everything. On the draft guide? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, me. Okay, you do. Well, I mean, yeah, so the way the draft guide works is, you know, it's designed and everything else by a team of people, but I write the Skydair reports and Danny Chow edits me. Okay.

So, yeah. Yeah. Perfect. So, Jared Culver is very fascinating to me. That Texas Tech team is awesome. And that Michigan game is going to be very, very good. But Culver is a very highly regarded draft prospect. And I don't know what the CIS.

is going to be on him. But yesterday, one of my old buddies, Glenn Cyprian, is an assistant coach with Texas Tech. And I was talking to him about their team and about Culver asking him about the draft and whatnot. And he knows I'm big on the, this guy is not going to, like, this guy's not going to suck, right? At the very worst. And he said, listen, I'm telling you, he said, this kid is here this morning and he is

shooting around, has already gotten all of his shots up and done all his work. His dad is our team chaplain, and I go to his church. His mom is like the head of the Boys and Girls Club. This kid is like a plus kid, like awesome kid. No one is going to outwork him. And here's where I'm going to give you the kicker, and you're going to love this. And he said, Chris, you know who he reminds me of? Because we've had a lot of NBA guys come down here, the talent evaluators, GMs, etc.

to check him out. And he said, and I tell him all the same thing. He reminds me of a kid I had at A&M named Chris Middleton. Because SIP was a coach at A&M at the time. And there I am reading the Ringer draft guide. And sure enough, the first name that's mentioned is Shades of Chris Middleton. Now, he's obviously not as tall and not as good a shooter. And he said, but Chris was this insanely hard worker who was whatever his ceiling is, he's going to be able to reach it because he worked so hard and he's such a good kid and he's got such a good support system, et cetera, et cetera. But one of the assistants for Texas Tech, Glenn Cyprian, who I've known forever,

that was the first name that he mentioned. And obviously, listen, Middleton made an All-Star team this year and as part of a, you know, a team that's going to win possibly 60 games or more this year. So people can say, oh, well, do you want to take Chris Middleton with the number four pick? I mean, I can hear people saying that, but you might this year. You know, you might. This year you do. Middleton was a late edition, I think we had as a comparison.

When Danny and I were chatting about the comparisons to have on there, we had, I forget who we replaced Middleton with, but Brogden, Lamb, I forget the other one off the top of my head we had for him, a lower end comp, I think, and we put Middleton up top. Sim was saying the kid is a great defender and his teammates love him. Like everything about him. Yeah. And this is not, I would tell you, this is not the kind of guy. that would just be blowing smoke. He has been an NBA player personnel guy. He has been, like, he's not going to,

he's not going to lie to me about what the kid is, but so many of the, so many of the traits about him, like that he is a sure thing to become a rotation player in the NBA, and then we'll see what the ceiling is. Yeah, I mean, I think you look at Culver's game. He's somebody who, he makes so many tough mid-range jump shots. Like, he is heavily reliant on the mid-range right now

at the college level. and you look at his potential in the NBA and you're like, well, the nature of today's league, of course you want him shooting more threes off the dribble. Extending his range is going to take time. Has tweaked his shooting form in the past, which has helped his jumper dramatically. The next step for him is going to be extending his range.

But I will say this about him, his ability to hit those tough shots is both a good and a bad thing. It's bad in the sense that it's like he would like to see him be able to generate more space off the dribble, so he's not taking tough shots. the fact is that he can't hit those and he does hit those and he's somebody who is at least good enough as a ball handler to create that space. So I think over the course of time, if he's able to

successfully extend his range and continue improving as a ball handler, he's easily somebody to me that could fit into that Chris Middleton mold where he's not going to be your number one guy, but he's going to be an insanely valuable second score on your team, somebody who can occasionally pop for you for 30 plus points. Culver is one of those guys on this draft, Chris. Like you said, he's not going to suck. He's going to be a quality player. It's just a matter of what level he reaches if he can continue making those

improvements to reach a higher level and to be a good or maybe a great player. But he's got to be at least solid. Two other guys that are projected lottery picks are Cam Reddish, who obviously has had a spotlight on him all year. But you saw he got in foul trouble, but there were real glimpses of that talent. the people that do love him, you could see what they love. He had that big tree at the end of the game. Yeah, in their game.

And the same goes with Nasir Little, who we talked about briefly last week, who, I mean, he really showed up to play. And there was about a five-minute span where, I mean, he looked like the best player on the floor by a wide mark. I mean, he was dominating the game, both ends. And I was like, okay, I see it now. Like, I see how he was ranked third in the class once upon a time by the recruiting rank. I mean, you saw, there is about a, if you just clipped out that five minutes and you sent that to anybody and you said, do you like him? I mean, he'd be falling all over yourselves. Unfortunately, he's played a lot more than five minutes throughout the year.

But there was a five minutes span in a very high leverage game where, God, dog, he looked amazing. I mean, he really did. Yeah. You know, it's interesting with Little this weekend. He obviously had the big raw numbers, I think 39 total points over the weekend for North Carolina. Carolina. And most of those points were scored from like attacking the offensive boards, they face his own defenses over the weekend, and he had some transition buckets as well. And with little, with him, you would like to see more of it and a half court, better ball handling

ability. And that's something that he has not shown all season long. He's been very stiff with the ball in his hands. He's not a good decision maker. It often looks like he doesn't know what he's doing on the court. So those questions persist with him. But I do wonder, with UNC, there's not a lot of spacing there. And I do wonder maybe at the NBA level, even if he's not that dynamic on-ball presence that maybe you would have hoped for, I do wonder maybe is he somebody who can develop

into somebody who is a killer attacking and straight line drives with more NBA spacing. And would we see more of that with him if he were in a different system where Biggs were not clogging the lane at UNC? Would we view him differently if there were more spacing? But he definitely helped himself for the weekend, but he still needs to show more.

in the half court with the ball on his hands and continue improving a decision maker and bring it more consistently on the defensive end of the floor because with his body Chris 6-6 thick frame long ass arms a 7-1 wingspan he should be a great defender at the college level and definitely should develop into one at the NBA level at some point but he has not been what you would expect this season on either end I'll give you one other little tip of something I heard because I started working on a bunch of draft stuff and there were two different guys independent that I talked to about the Kentucky kids, because this is not your vintage Kentucky team.

This is not one that is loaded with lottery picks. But I think you will find this interesting. I had two different guys tell me that the guy on that team that they think is going to be the one that ends up flying up the boards and that when he gets into these workouts, that he is going to shoot the ever-loving shit out of the ball and they're all going to love him is the Harrow kid. I was very surprised by that.

But, you know, probably pull a Stouskas, right? Remember when Stauskis, like, went to these teams? And they just said, like, dude, we put him on the three-point line. He hit, like, 24 or 25-3s, you know? Or even last year, Kevin Herder was a guy who people talked about as a mid-second round draft pick. And then, you know, through workouts, worked himself up to be the 19th pick in the draft by Atlanta. And there was even talk about him, maybe even going into the late lottery. So it's definitely a possibility with his shooting ability, no doubt.

Yeah, well, by virtue of all these good teams winning, I, I love, we got a lot of the draft prospects left, and I love the matchups. We're good to see the Gonzaga kids against some serious athletes of Florida State. Oh, that's a big one. All of them. They're all good. These are good setups. I'm excited to see the Kentucky kids up against, you know, Houston, who's been very good all year.

The Carson Edwards kid who went off in week one. Now he plays against Tennessee. It sets up well for being able to analyze the draft by watching these incredibly high-leverage college basketball games to kind of see. who shows up when it matters most. So while it was not super exciting, upset-wise, it does set up an amazing talent level, the best we could have, at least for the Sweet 16 teams. Kevin, it is always a pleasure.

I always love Tuesdays. Everybody out there, if you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps. We will talk to you next week.