The Ringer NBA Show - One-Dimensional DeRozan, Harden's Charges, and NBA E-sports With Jason Concepcion (Ep. 106)

Episode Date: May 4, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and Jason Concepcion discuss watching NBA games in L.A. (5:00), DeMar DeRozan's one-dimensional offense (14:00), Rockets-Spurs (24:00), James Harden's charging (29:00), ’90s basketball comparisons with Wizards-Celtics (35:00), and the NBA's investment in e-sports (44:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons. Very excited to announce the newest podcast to the Ringer Podcast Network family. It's against all odds with Cousin Sal. So this pot is gambling, gambling, gambling, and more gambling. Yes, I have a gambling problem. I want to share it with you. I want to make it your problem. And it's not just football. NHL playoffs, NBA playoffs, baseball, horse racing, there's boxing. UFC when we hit SummerSlam. Oh, all the wrestling when we hit July. We have a hot dog eating contest for Nathan's. And some surprise celebrity guests. Yeah. All right.

It's against all odds with Cousin Sal. Subscribe to it wherever you listen to your podcast. And we're thinking about once a week, right? Yeah, let's do it. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me today is Jason Concepcion, staff writer for The Ringer, aka at Network. Hello, Jason.

You know what I think the Rockets should do after last night's loss? I think they need to blow it up. I would blow it up. I feel like it's Tuesday. I think they should blow it up. I also think the, I think the raptors should blow it up. I would blow up. I think, you know, the wizard should maybe consider blowing it up.

Why are you trying to take Kevin O'Connor's, I mean, that's, that's his corner, man. Don't try to take it. My favorite. I just have to agree with him. Everybody knows how much I love Kevin. But that was one of my favorite playoff moments was last. Last night, Bill Simmons retweeting a conversation I was having with him. And then Kevin being like, I don't want to blow everybody up.

There's just a few teams. Oh, stop, Kevin. You want to blow every damn team up. Blow it up. Blow it up. It's blow it all up. I love it. All these bum teams, blow it up.

It's my favorite thing. All right, before we get into the playoffs and the games that took place last night and what we witnessed and the games that are going to resume tonight, you have moved out to California. So I want to hear as a, you've been, you're East Coast guy. Sure. I mean, this is like Biggie moving to L.A.

And so you've lost the rat battle, East Coast, West Coast, because you've now gone there. But I want to hear now, like, what is living like you have been a New York guy and now you're an L.A. guy? I'm not in LA guy I'm in well okay so what's it like

the other day in the morning walking the dog I saw a coyote eating someone's house cat that's legit I saw that it had the cat in its mouth and like looked at me and then went skulked down back into the canyon there's all these flyers up in the neighborhood about missing cats

listen I hate I hate to tell you this but there's some coyotes up in here and they've been killing cats that was like you know I'd never seen anything like that. I've never seen predators loose in the neighborhood eating cows pets. So that's a thing. What else?

Yeah, man. That is your first observation about moving from New York to Los Angeles? Well, I just saw it, though. I mean, if you see like an animal eating a pet 10 feet from you, you know, that sticks in your mind. I saw, you know, I saw a house cat eat a pigeon once on the street. What kind of neighborhood did you move to? I'm staying at my at a friend's house that's kind of like on the side of a hill. So it's like there's just a lot of brush.

And I guess there's these predatory animals, these coyotes are running around up in here. And they're eating your pets. They're eating your pets. So I think when people think of, you know, we see Beverly Hills or whatever on TV, you're on, you're in a different side of Los Angeles. Oh, no, I'm like, yeah, I'm on the east side. Just wild coyotes everywhere. I don't know about everywhere, but they're around here and I've been seeing them.

It was shocking. Let's see what else. Oh, you know, everybody kind of, it's funny because everybody looks like they might be in something. I was walking around Hollywood, just looking at apartments, like Beachwood Canyon area, which is kind of under the Hollywood sign. Within sight of the Hollywood sign, whatever. Everybody over there looks like the third. member in a CW show. Like you're not sure if they're in something, but they

look like they're in something. That's like a thing to get used to because you're just like, I'm wearing sweatpants. And you don't want to, you don't want to mistake them, right? You don't want to mistake. In the case that they are somebody famous, that would be very, it would be a big shot

to the ego for you to not to recognize them from their work on the CW show. Well, I did, I did, okay, so here's another thing. I was walking my dog in the park, in Alisian Park. And Brett Gelman, who's a comedian, used to do stuff for like adult swim and stuff, is walking his dog. And he walks up to me and he's like, the fox tails, you got to watch out for these foxtails, which is a grass, like a barbed grass. And I'm like, he's like, do you know about the fox tales?

I'm like, no. And he's like, you know, your dog can snort one of these up and then it gets stuck in his nose and you got to have, you got to go to the vet and it's like a thousand dollar surgery to get out. I was like, wow, thank you very much. He walks away and I turn to my wife, I go, that was the comedian. and Brett Gilman, who just lectured us about fox tales. How much were the apartments that you can see the Hollywood side from? You know, like the price is, it's funny. Okay, here's an interesting difference between New York and L.A.

In New York, it's like cutthroat. Either you have the money or don't even go and look at apartments. Like if you have money to put a deposit down and you're willing to like cut your arm open and sign in blood and like kill like, you know, a hobo with a broken beer bottle, they'll be like, okay. They'll tell you within the hour. You know what I mean? They'll tell you in five minutes. Okay, you're going to have this apartment. Here it's like, I like this apartment.

Can I like write you a deposit check? You know, we got a, well, it's like three other people that. He called me and I promised them they could see it. So it's like just as competitive, but it's like, and everybody's super, super polite, but it's like, they just drag you along. It's, oh, you know, well, you had to look at some things. Much more laissez-faire attitude towards things. Totally. Where in New York, it's like, I like this place.

Like, do you have money? Kind of, okay, get out. No. And if you say yes, then they're like, okay, then I'll look, I'll call your employer and make sure you have a job and then you can have it. Which is more expensive. New York is technically, I think, more expensive, but it's like not, it's comparable. It's like the same. It's about the same.

Yeah. Which is like way too expensive. Crazy expensive. But the weather's better, right? Well, it's not fair, though. It's totally not fair how much better the weather is. Yeah, it's like sunny all the time. We had winds.

That's the thing. There's like all those like random winds. 50 mile per hour winds will just like come up in the trio. fall down. And it'll be sunny out. Last thing about the move. You spend your, I mean, you spend so much time there getting used to a sports schedule. And that was the thing when I was out there for a week earlier this year, it was jarring. Now, I happened to be out there during, you know, as college bowl season was going on, the NBA was going on. Like, I remember we went and did that podcast at Jimmy Goldstein's

house. And I thought there was a replay, like on NBA TV of a game from the night. It was a live game. Like it was going on. It was like 4 o'clock in the afternoon. I'm like, good grief. I could not. It takes a lot to get used to. It's hard to wake up and be like, oh, my God, like, everybody's been doing stuff for three hours already.

You wake up at 6 o' the morning. You're like, man, I'm up early. Oh, wait, people have been doing stuff. Like, they're almost ready to, they're going to eat lunch in three hours. Have you figured out the sports, like, watching schedule? Not totally quite. It's hard to plan things. And it's like the way I would do things in New York is I do all my stuff during the day and then watch games and then just stay up to write afterwards.

And here it's like, I don't even know what's going on. Like it's just everything is all happens before like 10 o'clock between 4 and 10. It's, uh, I'm still getting used to it. I wake up at 6 in the morning. Good grief. Let's talk about what took place last night. And that was the Cavalier stomped. the Raptors. Is this one of those?

I would blow it up. Too late. O'Connor already dropped the TNT on them. You're late on this. Your take is not fresh. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, the calves just have too much talent, too much shooting, too much LeBron James. Did you see that DeRosen is like, yeah, if anybody can figure out how to stop LeBron

James, I'll give him $100 bucks? First of all, that's not enough money. If you can figure out how to stop LeBron James, then you should sell your skills to an NBA team and teach them how to do it, and you should get like six figures for that. And the second thing is, you know, Toronto just doesn't have enough.

LeBron, the Cavs have like, how many guys shooting like over 40%? Five guys shooting over 40% for three. And then LeBron James is like putting in his most efficient season since, like, peak Miami seasons. It's just they've got too much talent. De Rosen and Laueri are two guys that they're, you know, it's like their particular game styles just don't really translate to the playoffs where you play the same opponent for multiple games. It's just tough.

Well, and the other thing is right, you watched DeRosen last night, and this happened to him against the bucks where he had just the miserable night. It was over from the field. You saw last night, I mean, five points. This guy averaged 26 points a game. during the regular season, and they run two guys at him. And I don't, I mean, Derozen feels like the kind of guy whose career high and assist is probably like five assists. But he has to be a good passer out of that.

Like, that's the way things work. And if he is just this one-dimensional, either he scores or he doesn't, guy, you know, when they're running the two guys at him and making life miserable on him, he's got to chuck that ball to somebody quickly. I mean, hell, that's how LeBron does it. They run two guys at you and he just throws it to the open guy. De Rosen, he ain't much of a passer. And so they got a problem.

Outside of Lowry, there's not like a really dynamic ball mover on that team. And that's like, so I'm looking at it now. The calves are, they have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight guys shooting over 37 percent. Kyle Corver is shooting 38 percent. And there's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven dudes shooting better percentage. in him on this team. Duran Williams, 66%. Jetting Frye, 52%.

Richard Jefferson's only taken three, two, three-pointers, whatever. LeBron James, 48% from three. I mean, they'll cool off, but it's like they're just getting anything they want. And when you have LeBron James, like, in space, being able to take guys one-on-one, it's just, you know, there was a couple of plays

last night where it's like, P.J. Tucker is just bouncing off LeBron. It's, yeah, it's, it's, It's sad, but there's... And the other thing you come to realize is whether it is P.J. Tucker or Damare K.L. It doesn't matter. Yeah. No.

And there's this new generation, right? Remember it used to be with, you know, Ruben Patterson was the Kobe stopper, or Raja Bell, or whoever. And then these guys go out and get 40 points. We're like, all right. Maybe they're the Kobe slower downer, right? But, I mean, like, you can't be more efficient than LeBron was last night. He just murdered everybody.

It's ridiculous. And, you know, like, and the Raptors, are a defensive team and the league has really moved into an offensive era like you have to you know the Rockets are here because they're outscoring people and the Cavs are 100%

here because they outscored people during the regular season. They were terrible defensively. So the Raptors hashtag blow it up are kind of stuck between eras with the personality and with all those good teams right

whether it is whether it is the Golden State or it's Houston or it's Cleveland, these high-octane teams, and you even saw San Antonio last night, the way, grab every rebound, right? That's your chance, right? Try to get that game lower, try to play them in the 90s or the low hundreds, which is a super hard task to do. But then just destroy them on the boards and grab a ton of offensive rebounds and give yourself extra possessions. but if you can't do that, you're just, I mean, you're just going to get smashed. Spoken like a very grit and grind person.

This is like, that's exactly, I mean, that's basically Memphis for the past four years. Well, and that's why they were good, that's why they were competitive against the best teams. Right. You look at their differential. It's like they have like either a one or a slightly negative point differential over the course of the season. That's because they get, when they lose, they get freaking blown out. And when they win, they win by like one. but they do it because they just muddy up the game

and they attack those little spaces of handoffs and passes and say the thing is you've got to have the personnel do that. In fairness, that's how Oklahoma City got up 3-1 on the Warriors last year. You know, everybody forgets that series, but I mean, they just grabbed every damn, like if they shot the ball, they got it back

and if the warrior shot the ball, they got the rebound. The other thing is Kevin Durant took a defensive leap in that series too. He became another player. He became the type of player that we, you know, I wasn't sure that we'd ever see. Just the way he leveraged his length and the way he was able to just blot out the sun on like health defense. He became another guy and that was like a big part of it too. I wouldn't be surprised that Toronto could win a home game just because the cats are, you know, they could dick around.

The Pacers should have beaten them in the game three. Pacers were up by a thousand just because it looked like the calves were dicking around. And then, of course, Cleveland turned it on in that second half. What was it, like 27 points they came back from or something. So they are prone to maybe just, I don't want to say, take a night off, but it ain't the end of the world if we lose type of game. And the Pacers could have done it. So if Toronto won a game, it wouldn't be shocking to me.

What was the thing? What was the thing that LeBron said last year after, you know, they had to, they lost to the Raptors and it was like, going to be a six game series. It was like, you know, I've been in, I forget the exact word he used, but I've been in a tough situations and this is not a tough situation. They just don't, you know, like, I agree with you.

The Cavs are 100% of the Switch team and the Switche looks to be warmed up now. Like they're defensively, they've tightened up. But yeah, they can loosen up. And they have very little respect for the Raptors as a team. Well, the interesting thing is if it does play out, and I don't think the Wizards are dead yet, but if it does play out where you play against,

I'll be fascinated to see how those Cleveland guys shoot because what we have seen in many cases is teams, you know, they always say role players, periphery guys play a lot better on the road than they do at home. And that stands true, right? I mean, you saw something like the Spurs last night. They were bombing every shot. I mean, they were making all kinds of shots last night. And their role guys were making shots. It would be interesting to see, do the Channing Fries and the Darren Williams is and these guys, do they all just? just keep up these crazy percentages when, you know, there's 19,000 people booing you rather

than cheering you. And it does that. Just Channing Frye, just Channing Fry cool off from 52% three-point shooting to like 40? I mean, probably that's, I mean, but even so, you know, like, it's just way too much, it's just way too much shooting, you know, like the calves have, you know, kudos to them. They looked at how they could best ameliorate the kind of like LeBron's decline and they figured, okay, like we don't want him to have to go one versus two guys. Let's just surround him with shooters and have him attack people in space.

And it's, you know, they just have too many shooters. I will say this too. Given that they're not, the calves are not some kind of defensive juggernaut, we know. This DeRosen thing, this is going to stick, Jason. You can't have five frigging points. That is pathetic. Five. I mean, the same way people were killing Aldridge for having four in game one against the Rockets.

You're like a consistent All-Star average 26 points a game. How on earth can you have five points in a playoff game where your team, you need that game like blood? You know, going down O2 is a death now. So if you're going to have some kind of grand slam effort, this would be the one. Yeah, I mean, it's just he's. You know, there's just an obvious hole in his game where he is not a great shooter. Guys like that are extremely easy to defend, especially in the playoffs where now you're playing one team

and that team gets a chance to just game plan against you. You know, they just wall you off. They're letting him, you know, they're defending him well. Like, he's not getting to the line either. So it's just tough. It's tough. And it looks like it's in his head, too. All right, Jason, we got to talk about the Rockets and Spurs.

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And if you're going to play them in the 120s and 130s, then you're going to have a problem on your hand. Everybody was saying, this is Houston's pace. This is Houston's pace. this is their comfort zone. And then it kind of still felt that way through three quarters. Houston had cut into that lead. They were down by 10 at halftime. They're down by five at the end of the third quarter.

And the fourth quarter, they just get bombed out, Jason. Well, they had that, you know, it's funny because everybody's like, why is Pop not going small in game one and they were just getting absolutely wrecked? And I think, you know, like, I don't want to ascribe too much genius to Pop since he is a genius. I would not, I would not deem to know his mind. But it's like when you do that, when you go with a certain style, that gives you like the credibility to go small in the second game ago. And I guess, you know, guys wouldn't feel bad about it because it's,

his guys wouldn't feel bad about it because it's, you know, you look at what happened in the game once. So he went small in the fourth quarter. He had managed it only playing like power forward. And against Houston's bench. And they just, you know, they right. They almost became Houston. like they led them in three-pointers at one time.

I thought it was really weird that Dantone kind of abandoned Nenei. Because I thought he was, I thought he was like the only tough guy. He was the only one pushing anybody around. I know his rebounding numbers weren't good. But against that San Antonio team, you know, I just covered them for a whole series. You can punk those guys out, Aldridge, Powell, David Lee. Wow. They're not there for a fight.

They're not. Those guys are not there for a fight. You can punk that we got to that's you can we they got to put that on a banner somewhere Well I mean are you gonna how are we gonna act like you want any You're getting in a you getting in a street fight tonight Go ahead and draft from those three you want Aldridge power David Lee Well I mean Aldridge I think first of all is hurt and I think pop kind of talked about it a little bit last night

He looks limited you know he had a good season and he's just not looked anything like the same guy. I mean, Ryan Anderson, like, blocked his shot in game one, which is, you know, that's shocking.

That was shocking. Ryan Anderson blocked his shot. That happened. That happened. I mean, Lou Williams blocked Tony Parker's shot, and he looked, you know, I hope Tony's okay.

It looks like he's going to miss the, an extended amount of time, but the, the improvement in his game from game one to two was like, whoa. Yeah.

Heart of a champion, as they said. I guess. Yeah, and, you know, Kauai Leonard, that dude is freaking amazing. 34 points on 13 of 16 from the field, 8 assists, 7 rebounds. I mean, he was by far the best player on the corner. He smothered Harden, like just all the other stuff that he wanted him to do. The amount of energy that he expends doing that. And I never in my, even last year, I was like, oh, yeah, he's a very good,

offensive player, I didn't think that he'd become like efficient Kobe, you know, like the kind of guy who's just, who you literally just give him the ball and go, okay, these next four possessions get something, you know, I never thought I'd see that. You also saw last night, you also saw last night, it's juxtaposed against Hardin who had the three of 17. I mean, he had a miserable night. He's three of 17, obviously got frustrated, and you could tell last night he was playing. playing for the foul and it just didn't work.

Oh, last night you could tell he was playing for them? No, I mean, like, but it's, but no, it's playing for the foul and then you see what it looks like when they won't call them. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, it's an important part of the Rockets total game plan. If they, if they're not getting calls, if they're not getting to that spot first, you can, that really hurts them, you know, and San Antonio is great at defending without fouling. So if they, it's, that's like a really interesting, like, second level.

chess match right there. Well, and there was this series. There was that series in the game that was so hysterical. All right. Patty Mills fell? No, but that's beforehand, okay? The best one, that one,

he's already mad prior to because he goes flying down. He grabs a ball and he's going flying down the court. He's doing his straight line stuff just past everybody, right? And they showed the replay on the whole, on the charge that got

called on him. Dude, Dwayne Deadman had been standing there for a half an hour. And he just trucked him. And then was like, what? What are you talking about? Fowl? I can't believe this. But Dwayne Devin literally had just been standing there, like whistling, waiting for him to just fly into him. And then, of course, the mill stuff, that was, I mean, that's an all-timer. That's an all-timer. That was tough. But I, you know, like, as an aside, I think one of my favorite subplots of this series is Spurs fans getting mad when hardened flops because it's like it's like this weird like years of karma like switching and all of a sudden turning on them because it's like, you know, come on.

Mano Genoobli Parker is good at selling it. You know, Manu made his made hay out of it. I'm not an anti-flop guy. I think if there's legitimate contact and you sell it a little bit to get to get the call, You know, that's just, that's kind of the way the game has played. But it's like, you know, that's, Mono invented this shit. I will, I will, I will freely admit I may have re-overreacted a little bit to game one.

But I still believe that Houston has the ability to create really bad matchups for San Antonio. San Antonio had to win that game. Like, that was a back against the wall must win. And psychologically, we've seen this with team. teams that win a game one on the road and the second game, the home team comes back and wins because, I mean, their season, I don't want to set your seasons on the line, but it feels that way. It becomes way bigger, whereas the road team can go, hey, we got accomplished what we wanted to accomplish here, right? Like, they're not my work is done, but it's just,

it's just not the same level of intensity. With Parker out, it's just, you know, what happens to the guard rotation now? It's Patty Mills is good. you would assume is going to play major minutes, and then who comes behind him? Is it Jonathan Simmons? Is it Kyle Anderson? Is it John DeMorreis? You saw Kauai running the show. You saw Kauai run in the show for a little portion there in that fourth quarter. You can do that, but I mean, you can't do that. How much can you really do that for? You can end quarters like that. It's just going to be tough. And yeah, they did have to win that game. It's like you're, Houston hit 11 threes and the Spurs hit nine. Like if the Spurs would love to have that kind of,

made three point or differential for the rest of the series if they can do that how many times how many times it's hard and going to score 13 it's just not yeah it's it's not gonna it's not gonna happen and the adjustments will be really really interesting with parker out um with with is danton tony going to figure out a way to draw uh gasol out of the paint which was like a thing that really affected them like you know hardin played badly uh he he missed a lot of layups that he usually would have made, but Powell was there for a lot of those too. So it's like, they really couldn't get him out of the rim area. So it'll be interesting to see what Dan Tony's, what Dan Tony's tweaks are. Usually his tweaks are just like, okay, more, more of what we are, more threes.

The weirdest thing, Jason, over the course of these last couple of years, we have seen so many ass king kings in the playoffs. And it's not always one-sided. It's like the other, the other team, like one team wins by 25 and then the next game, the other team wins by 25. Like there is a, and that's why I think this Washington, Boston series, let's get into that, stands out so much because those are like amazingly competitive games. And while a series might be competitive, it just seems over the course of the last couple of years, there have been so many blowouts in the playoffs, unlike any time I can remember in my lifetime, lack of competitive games, especially when you get down to this round, because there's only four teams left in each conference.

And you just see these ass kickings all the time. So anyways, Boston, Washington. I don't think Washington's dead yet. And I think, you know, they got up double digits in both of those games at Boston. And at home, when everybody's cheering for you, it's a lot easier to build on that momentum that you've got going. I mean, their bench still sucks. That ain't changing, even though they're playing. playing in D.C. tonight.

Well, you can't get, yeah, you can't get, you can't get 14 points in one of nine from three from Beal and with that bench. Also, they should have won that game. Also, I love this series because if, you know, people always say, or you hear, one thing you hear is, especially from like the old heads, it's like, oh, 90s basketball, you know, guys, it was tough. This is a series like 90s basketball only it's with modern style players. Dudes are getting their teeth knocked, teeth flying.

Hey, teeth knocked out, pushed into the stands. Yeah. How about at the beginning of that game, Markief Morris, going up to Al Horford talking all that shit? What was it, Mark Keefe Moore? This is my favorite. Oh, here we go. How do we really know, though? Shouldn't he have to, shouldn't Marcus have to Snapchat or like Periscope at the exact same time that his brother is playing in those circumstances?

Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something crazy. We have the technology to do it. No, let me tell you something crazy because the market is so much smaller, it would never draw nearly enough attention. And many people don't even know. I swear to you. So I was working that Grizzly Spur series, right?

And in the game four, which was the epic game where Gasol hit the game winner. Right. The game winning play was Andrew Harrison tracked down Patty Mills and packed him against her. It was a chased down block, right? that took place in that game. Before the game, for the first time ever, out by our TV truck, I saw Aaron Harrison walking into the game. I'd never seen Aaron Harrison.

Hey, I swear to you. And so when everybody was saying all that Marcus Morqueef, I'm like, holy shit. I'm like, what if Aaron Harrison made that block? What if he played and we just didn't even notice? What if he was the guy that played for the Grizzlies in game? four against a spur. But how would you actually

my, like I love the part where you know, like where Horford came up and was like apologizing for undercutting Markief. And I was like, man, it would be great if Marcus was like, what? What are you talking about? Oh yeah, that's right. That's the thing that. Okay. The identical tattoos thing is just bizarre. They,

they took pay cuts to play together. And they the same bank account. I mean, it's wild. And how honestly, who's going to say... Wait, wait, wait, hold on now. Hold on. They use the same bank account? It's my understanding that when all that stuff went down previously in Phoenix, that they

draw off the same bank account. This is weird. It's crazy. And honestly, listen, I'm just asking questions. I think it's important these days and these times. Just ask questions about things. who if who's going to say something who would be the person that would be like hey you know go ask him if he's Marcus just make sure you know did you I don't know if you saw this last night but and I retweeted it Marcus Morris retweeted Bill Simmons yeah the story ESPN and TNT won't touch and then like did like the little crying laughing emoji and then said would be a great story like that doesn't that's not that's not a denial shouts to Roger Sherman who kind of roasts him a little bit in there.

Like, what if? Honestly, who's going to stop it? Who's going to say anything? This is one of the conspiracy theories I think is possible. They look exactly alike. Exactly. And have the same tattoos. And have the same tattoos.

They could pull it off. They could. And the only reason I could tell them apart in Phoenix was the jersey numbers. No one guy's better offender. Who do you believe? And this is a story that has not been covered even nearly as much as the twins. I don't know if anybody's covered it. Who has been a more in the last decade or maybe even a few decades?

Who do you think has been more important to short men than Isaiah Thomas? Oh, right. In like centuries, Napoleon? He conquered like, you know. You don't want to be him. But you don't want to be hit, like, you don't grow up. Like, if you're going to be, if it is going to be fell you that you are not going to be six foot tall, okay? Then you have to have to have somebody to, no pun intended, look up to, right?

Like, all right, short guys get the short end of the stick, as they say. And so these are the things you can't do, right? I've never seen, I've never seen, you know, it's Iversonian, but much much, but like so, efficient. Yeah. But like, so Iverson was probably like what, 5-9, 5-10?

He was tall. And Isaiah is like probably 5-8, maybe. Yeah, Iverson is closer to 6 foot, way closer to 6 foot than Thomas is. Still, the style of play was somewhat similar.

Isaiah's a better shooter. And he's just got like these, he had this move where he drove in and he shows the ball, like that kind of hardened thing where you take the ball with two hands and you kind of put it out there. to try and bait somebody into getting the foul.

And then when guys reach for it, it's just not there. Like he's so deceptive with his footwork and his ability to, when he turns the corner, how he kind of lays on the guy. Like he doesn't always go for the separation. He'll kind of like slow it down. So there's body contacts. So guys can't really leap and get up over him.

And then he just manages to squirt the ball up in there somehow. He's freaking amazing. It's weird because there's been Spud, right? There's been like Spud Webb and he was a big deal when we were kids. Mugsy Boggs is the superior player but didn't catch on right in the same way that Spud did because of the dunk contest. Earl Boykins, but, you know. He had, Earl had some moments like with the really bad warriors, with the Bobby Surah era warriors. But it's kind of like a novelty.

I mean, I don't want to take away from what he was. He was an outstanding player. but it wasn't like everybody looked at Earl Boykins as somebody that like, I don't know, was very meaningful towards the short man. And I believe that, I believe that Isaiah Thomas is very significant because he, it's almost like, I was trying to think of somebody else like in another realm that was short, right? That commands that much respect. Sure.

Well, I mean, Messi is, you know, messy in soccer. He's like five. Oh, that's good. Five. But at the same time, like, it doesn't matter because it's a ground bound game. Yeah. What I was trying to think about. You know, like, Tom Cruise is like super small, right?

But, like, imagine if, like, it would be like if Tom Cruise was in these action movies. And, of course, they cast, like, imagine if, like, all the bad guys that Tom Cruise ever fought were, like, normal size people, right? Like, they were just six three and six, four. Like, you can't be the action hero and be five foot whatever, right? What Tom Cruise is. Well, you know, Cruz plays Jack Reacher, who in the books is like a six-five military policeman, like, who fights four guys at once because they, like, punch him in the head and their hands break. That's what I'm saying. We create, even Tom Cruise, we say, nah, he can't be, you know, five, six or whatever he is.

Like, that can't be. I mean, Isaiah is just amazing because I honestly do not. I'm not sure how he does it, you know. Like he just has a his bag of tricks is endless. And to an extent, I think this is how, you know, this is why teams keep kept letting him go. You know, I mean, the kings are just a mess, but you think it's fluky the way he can score in traffic against guys who are a foot taller than him. He's got super long arms. And if you watch, he's really good with his off arm in creating space.

Both hands. Yeah. Yeah, and he's masterful of like at that jujitsu stuff where he can use contact to like to make guys slow down and not be able to leap up over him. He gets the way you get separation, he wronged foot skies. He just has an endless bag of tricks. And he's a good shooter, which that gives you an extra half a step. You know how mad I'd be if I was John Wall, by the way. I'd have gone home that night and I'd been like, dude, this is some bullshit.

Like I just. This is a great duel. Right. Oh, because he played out of his mind. He's been playing out of his mind. John Wall is incredible. Yeah, but it was like the first game he had like whatever, 12, 14 assist. And then he, and same way in that Atlanta series where he, you know, they did the for the culture, goofy press conference after.

He said, I said I'm going to go score 35. And you could tell coming right out the gate in that game too, it was like, all right, I scored my 20 points or whatever it was. in game one. I'm getting buckets tonight. End of story. And he just goes and he doesn't. Yeah. He's incredible.

He's 40 points 13 assists. He runs out of gas at the end. I mean, that's the tough thing with, he played 47 minutes. Jesus. Plus the overtime, but I mean, it's like, you know, who do they, let's see, they have Marquiv Morris. Hashtag was it?

Markiev Morris played 26 minutes, Uber 8, 27, and then the rest of them, it's like, Adoporter, 38 minutes. Cortat, 41 minutes. Beal, 47 minutes. John Wall, 47 minutes. It's just, you know, William Bogdanovich with that eight-minute stretch.

It's just tough. It's going to be tough as the series extends towards the end of games for these. All right, so we're on the same page. If that ends up after the Washington home games two to two, you would not be surprised at all, right? No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't.

I wouldn't either. I feel like it's still going to be a long series. I do, especially with those. way games won a game two played out um all right next one is utah and golden state which will resume um is there any chance here this one we're down to no blow it up can you can you tall win a game uh yeah sure you you can get a game you know they're at altitude uh maybe golden state lets off a little bit they can't get two games they just can't i'm telling you that That series is totally freaking me out now because for anybody that listened to the Ringer NBA show on Tuesday, I did it with Kevin O'Connor.

And we got into discussion about the line of that game and that it was 14. And I start talking about it. And I said, you know the way this plays out. They're going to be up by like 19 or 22. He's going to pull the guys out. And then people that bet on Golden State are just going to be begging for James McAdoo to make a shot. and Utah is going to end up going on a late run, and they're going to end up losing by 13.

And I'll be damned. They ended up, the game played out literally. Like I was sitting there. It was freaky, man. It literally played out that way. And at the last possession, James McAdoo had a three. And if he makes it, they win by 15. And if he misses it, they win by 12.

And sure enough, he missed it. And Utah ended up covering. But that was a joke because we knew they were even, Utah got a little close. I think it was like maybe 11 going into the fourth quarter. They started off with that 80 run to start the fourth quarter and it was like, all right, we're done here, right? Like the only thing matters is if they cover the points spread or not because it just was not competitive, you know?

It's not going to be. I mean, it's, I really like the jazz. They should blow it up, but I still like them. I think the gold say is just you know they're the best the best defensive team in the playoffs

they're the best among the best offensive teams still in the playoffs they have four of the best 20 players in the NBA it's they're not the jazz are not going to take

more than a game off of them the goal to say it's not going to lose four games maybe game three maybe game three that you talk and pull off sure that's usually the one right even in the even in a series that's dominated you know it's first home game all jacked outitude you're not yeah teams already up to one so it ain't it ain't that big of a deal if all of Utah's upset about the about people you know criticizing their nightlife which I think is fantastic which even even Utah people are like yes the nightlife's not great it's not great

beautiful state though it's gorgeous I love to look at it yeah been there one time and I thought it was outstanding the air is crisp yeah yeah need a lot need to drink a lot of water you have to because you're right out a lot of blonde people

if you're you know if you're a fan of blonde people blonde human beings there's a lot of blonde people there last thing your idea on how we could make the in a fantasy world how interesting we could make um how interesting we could make these playoffs going forward if we allowed teams to once they defeated the team they could pluck a player do i have this right you this is yes i call it it's the playoff snake snake playoffs the

team that wins the series can take one play they have to drop a player but they can take one player from the team they beat and then they and each time they win they get to take it a player. They choose not to take a player, but yeah, they can take a player. Off the team they beat. Off the team they beat. So this, hey, this, I've got it. I've got a name for this, Jason. Yeah. You want a name for it? Sure. Tell me. It's called the Kevin Durant game. Yeah, they did it. This is exactly what they did. So let's give all the other teams a chance for this. Now there are wrinkles. First of all, you create an incentive in those middle seeds. Like, you know, like the two seat all of a sudden becomes great because, you know, you're avoiding,

you don't have to play the one seed until, essentially like the final, the conference finals, and you've picked up two players by the time you get there. And also, first of all, I think it'd be extremely exciting. And don't forget that you're adding a player who has never practiced with your team, doesn't really know anybody, doesn't know any of the plays. it would be chaotic and I think it would be fantastic. So think about, okay, so. Yeah, let's just play it out.

The two seed, right, would be Cleveland in the east. Oh, it's Cleveland with Paul George, right? You take Paul George. Right. And who would they take from Toronto, assuming they win. I guess Lowry and just make him Kyrie's backup, right? I mean it's better than Durand. And so Boston would have Jimmy Butler and they would take Wall.

So you'd have Boston with Jimmy Butler and Wall versus Cleveland with Paul George and Lowry. Utah with Chris Paul would be kind of fun. Dude, I'm telling you, that would, now they have a chance. Now they can say, you can say, okay, they can get two games off of Golden State. They'll still lose. That's the scary thing. It's still lose.

But now it's. And I guess, well, the Spurs would have taken Conley off the Grizzlies. Right. They have to. I mean, and that, yeah, they would have to. And now, now all of a sudden, you look at them as maybe, probably a favorite to even with Parker out to be Houston. You know what? This is, this is something like that, you know where you're not, you're never going to be able to pitch this into the, the real NBA. But I don't, I got a press, I got a press release from the NBA this morning. Have you seen this about the, and I know you're a big gamer, but they have announced a, 2K E Sports League and there is going to be 17 of these teams that are going to participate. And I know about this because the Grizzlies are one of those teams that are like and so it goes. Like these NBA teams like just like you so many are now owning and operating their D League now called the G League team. Right.

They are going to own and operate an e-sports team that plays out a season on 2K. Like, this is real. Like, and it's not like, like, they're going to, like, they got to go and, like, find guys that are gamers. And I suppose there's going to be some kind of gamer draft. I don't even, I don't even totally understand the way it works. But it ain't like some kind of fly-by-night or a goof. Like, they are dead serious about getting into this realm. And at least for the first season, 17 NBA teams are going to.

own and operate these esports teams. Have you seen this? I have seen it. I was at the All-Star game, but I watched kind of like the, I watched the beginning of, they had like a little tournament sponsored by 2K and like Aaron Gordon,

Durant played against the guys. And when they, when the one team won, I think they won like $100,000 that they split five ways. One of the guys, one of the players' mom, like just ran into the street, weeping with joy.

It's like a, it's an interesting thing because, you know, pro gaming, now I'm going to put it on my gaming hat. Pro gaming has a lot more impact than you think. You know, it's like the League of Legends finals last year. More people watched it than the NBA finals like by a lot. The thing is it's diffuse. You know, it's like they don't all watch it at the same time. Some people watch it on the stream. Some people watch it on a different platform.

Some people watch it the next day. I don't think that ESports, NBA, ESports, 2K ESports are. going to have like the same cultural impact as league of legends and Overwatch on the e-sports scene but but it's clearly a way that the NBA is trying to draw in a new generation of a fan that are more enmeshed in I will tell you listen I would not I am now I am a totally different person in regards to this stuff because of the age of my child my my older son who is He is seven years old, Jason.

The idea that this kind of stuff, if you would have asked me three years ago, the idea that somebody, like that this could ever be broadcasted, two people playing a video game against each other would have been insane. And yet, what I have learned, and this is true, there's going to be a lot of parents out there that are listening to this podcast that know exactly what I'm talking about. These kids, they watch other kids playing video games. That's what they do.

They would rather, my son would rather watch kids play video games than play the video game himself. It's the damnedest thing, and I don't really understand. And there's this like, there's this subculture, even amongst like his age, right? There's a kid named Evan Tube HD, and there's another, there's a family called, there's a, there's a family called FGTV. And all they do is like try out these games and play these games. Yeah. And he watches them all the time. And so, yes, there's going to come a time.

That's not going to be abnormal to him. In fact, what is normal to him is to watch people play video games. And he don't watch anything on TV. Outside of like NBA games with me or wrestling, nothing else. Like he doesn't. This is why you're seeing, this is why you're seeing, you know, soccer teams are doing this. Soccer, European soccer clubs are buying e-sports teams, even if they don't necessarily play the digital. version of their own, you know, real-life sport. You're seeing, you know, Peter Gruber was involved

in an ownership group that bought an e-sports team that plays League of Legends and Overwatch and a couple of other things. The reason they're doing this is because, one, just the numbers are so big that you can't really ignore it. Now, they have, nobody's really figured out the exact formula for getting the money out of their, you know, like 36 million people watch the League of Legends final last year. That's a lot. But when you compare it to the amount of monetization, it's not there yet, but people are trying to figure out how to monetize it. And the other thing is like that audience, like your son, you'll find out, is they're just really, it's more interactive. Like you can, you know, there's a chat window. You can send little

icons and bits and stuff to whoever you're watching. And it's almost like a talk show that you can interact with. It's not even necessarily about the game. when you watch a lot of these, it's just, it's, it's a lot like a talk show with video games as part of the medium. So, yeah, like, these traditional sports are going to, the reason they're getting involved in this is because they want to know how to co-opt this. So you don't look at this announcement and roll your eyes about it. No, I mean, it's smart. It's smart. You are way more in tune with the gaming side of this.

And I don't know, like, I don't know if it transcends to, okay, it's one thing for League of Legends or some of the fantasy games or the strategy games. and I know there was this you know there was that Madden thing that they ran on ESPN for quite some time but I do wonder right I think that's not the thing is like the interesting thing about e-sports is people like back in the in the aughts when it was you know early counterstrike and Halo and some console games no one could figure out how how would you get the audience then streaming came up now streaming's here and you don't have to worry about broadcast rights and all that stuff. It happened organically. People just can create their own channels and it just happens. And all the tournaments have grown up around that. So I think it's smart because

it's not that the digital versions of these NBA teams, then their e-sports teams are going to really have that much of a cultural impact. I don't think people are going to be, oh, man, I got to watch the digital Grizzlies play the digital Knicks or whatever. But what it's about, what it's about is reaching a subset of plugged in future consumers in a way that you wouldn't be able to reach them normally in a way that they understand in an interactive way. And then I think you'll see, I think you'll see over the course of the next decade, certainly, some of kind of like the broadcast language of some of these streams kind of like infiltrate into traditional sports. Like the thing about

e-sports, when you watch it, it's interactive, but it's also e-commerce. They make it really easy for you buy stuff when you watch a stream. So that's, you know, that's a thing that, like, Sports League would love that. Especially as you see subscriptions, cable subscriptions

decline, a way to sell stuff directly to people, like through broadcasts would, you know, that's appealing, right? And that's the other thing, right? That I have learned a lot about. There's not a week that goes by where five times I am not asked, can I buy this on my iPad? See?

There you go, right? Because it's add-ons, right? That's it, right? So if your traditional bat and ball sports can figure out how to co-opped that kind of mechanic into their own, how to take the stuff that e-sports does really well, even though I haven't figured out fully how to make money, how to monetize it. But the stuff that they do that really connects with the generation of consumer that they're talking to, you know, the NBA would love to figure out how to do that stuff. They would love that, right?

Super, super fascinating. He is Jason Concepcion. You can follow him on Twitter at Network N-E-T-W-3R-K. Jason, you're the man. Thanks for joining me today, man. Blow it up! Blow it up! Blow it up!

Thanks for listening to another Ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on. iTunes, and we will talk to you on Tuesday.