The Ringer NBA Show - One Thing for Every Team With Bill Simmons, Part 1 (Ep. 183)

Episode Date: December 27, 2017

HBO and The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor discuss one topic for each of the 30 teams in the NBA. In Part 1, they analyze teams with records under .500. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show and the Ringer podcast network is brought to you by Seekkeek. That is the presenting sponsor of the Bill Simmons podcast, my podcast, for $20 off your first Seekigig purchase for our NBA tickets. Use promo code BSMBA. You'll get $20 off. Download the Seek apical rate to seek geek.com. We're also brought to you by One Shining podcast hosted by Titus and Tate. I made an appearance on there this week. We talked about the 12 schools that should have better college basketball programs. It's two parts.

Kevin O'Connor's on the line. KOC. What would be your number one school that you think you can't believe they're not better at college basketball? I didn't hear your pod yet with them, but I wish there were a school, you know, growing up in the Boston area

that was actually competitive. We had like a little bit of a stretch in the mid-2000s with the Jared Dudley years, D. D.C. basketball. I wish there were a school in the Northeast that was great to get college basketball big up here. I think that's disappointing. I don't want to step on the podcast.

podcast, but two schools made the top 12 that, let's just say, are on the northeast. We address that issue. You could probably guess knowing where I went to college what one of those schools was. But yeah, when I was growing up, BC was way, way up there. And they had a little point-shaving scandal that knocked them back a little bit. And then Patrick Ewing, which we talked about in the podcast, Patrick Ewing picking Georgetown over BC. BC never really recovered from that. If he had gone there, they're in the finals every year, and it's a completely different story. Do you think from a college basketball standpoint, you think the Boston sports scene is just too cluttered? I don't even know if it would be a thing, even if, let's say if BC were a top 10 team every year.

I don't even know if they would really register on the radar in Boston sports just because of the amount of coverage other teams get. I don't think they would. Hey, we're not going to talk about Boston sports. That's what people expect from us. Although you're leaving Boston. You're doing the Goodwill hunting. You're getting the car. You're going to go see about a girl.

Only the girl is the ringer in this case. Yep, I've had it west. This is your last holidays? Did your mom get emotional at dinner? Any emotions in the holiday dinner at the O'Connor House? Yeah, yeah, there are some emotions there was. So I'm definitely looking forward to being out there, though, but there were some emotions yesterday. Well, I just wanted to know that we all walked our dogs yesterday during Christmas Day in shorts because it was like 70 degrees here.

So you're making the moment. I checked the weather on my phone, and I know it's the right move. I have a couple gimmicks I want to do for this podcast. It's an honor to be on The Ringer NBA show, by the way. I always enjoy being on here. I want to rip through every team from worst to first right now. And each of us are going to say one thing about them, the first thing that pops into our brain. I did not write any of mine down.

I'm just going to list each team in the record, and we'll each say one thing. Atlanta Hawks, 8 and 25, the worst team in the league right now, you're one thing. Dwayne Deadman can shoot threes, came out of number. No, shooting corner three. That's the first thing on my mind. Unbelievable to see him doing that. Wow. That is a dark assessment of the Hawks.

You had him, you wrote about trade candidates for the ringer today. Yeah. And Dwayne Dedman was on that list. I agree with you. He's a very intriguing second unit big guy for the right team. And we'll find out what that team is. But they are definitely a seller in the trade deadline. My one thing is Dennis Schroeder.

Schroeder, who you and I have argued about on my podcast and on this podcast, I never thought he was a, I thought he was either an average or below average point card. I was not a believer. I've been really impressed with him this year. One of the weird things about the NBA this season is that even the bad teams are kind of competent and fun to watch and against any team on the right night can hang. He's been somebody that I thought he made a leap this year. I think he's been really good and can kind of go toe to toe with people.

I have recalibrated my feelings about him. Interesting thing with him is his three-point shot hasn't even fallen yet this season, but he's definitely elevated his play, looking better in the pick and roll. He's a piece for Atlanta moving forward. Once they add their draft pick this year, he's a keeper. Young, too. All right, next team, Dallas, 9 and 25. I'll go first for this one.

My one thing is, this is sad. The Dirk thing's sad. I don't like it. I wish he wasn't on the team. They're in this weird no-man's land. where they're trying to turn the team over to Dennis Smith, who is Steve Francis 2.0 to the T. And it's just, it's the wrong group of guys.

Dirk should be playing 20 minutes a game. He definitely shouldn't be playing center. And I don't know, it hurts sometimes. But this has happened. Dirk's one of the 20 best players ever. And we saw it with Hakeem in Toronto. We saw it with Patrick Ewing in Seattle. This happens from time to time where you have this legend that's just,

there's that one last season. maybe they shouldn't have done. I don't begrudgeon for taking the money, but this is not the way I wanted to see Dirk go out. What's your one thing? You went old, I'm going young with Dennis Smith Jr. I think with him, he's interesting because, you know, you look at Lonzo Ball with the Lakers.

There's a lot of talk early in the season how he looks like a bust, but a lot of the young point guards, including Dennis Smith, have struggled in terms of numbers, but that's okay, right? You know, you look at the numbers with Dennis Smith. You see he's shooting 31% from 3, 44% from 2-point range, and you look at his assist numbers.

They're quite low at 4%. per game. You think he might be struggling, but he's been good when watching the games. He's developing as a young point card. And for, you know, granted, Dirk looks terrible at his old age now. Dennis Smith at 20 years old, I think he's had some encouraging play early this season. And I'd be feeling good about that if I'm a Mavericks fan. I agree. It'll be interesting to see if he's anything more than a good, stats, bad team guy. But again, he's 20 and he's half the age of Dirk Lewitsky. That was my concern with him in NC State. I had a seesaw experience with Dennis Smith, I liked him heading into the season, then kind of disliked him at one point, and then kind of

fell some more in the middle because he is the type of guy who could become that good stats, bad team player. But I do think that he's flashed the passing ability and the passing vision, and the effort's been better on defense for him to be more than just a good stats, bad team guy. I hate to go on a tangent. We're only two teams in out of 30, but, you know, there's more point guards coming in next year, and we're basically adding three a year every year. Now we have Trey Young, who not only is my favorite college basketball player this year, but when I saw his dad's Twitter feed, and the Twitter feed is a picture of like a 13-year-old Trey Young in an airport with Brad Stevens and Danny Ains.

And then his quote on the Twitter page is a quote from Kyrie Irving. So now that I know Trey Young's dad loves the Celtics, he's probably my favorite college player since Ben Simmons. But you have him coming in and Donkich, right? I'm saying that right? I think it's pronounced Donchich. That's the correct way I think. Well, I'm going to call him Docchish, because you know I screw this stuff up.

But we know we have at least two heavy hitter point guards coming. And Colin Sexton, too. Colin Sexton from Alabama. Oh. He was the one a couple weeks ago that was scoring three on five for Alabama. Titus said I would love him. I haven't seen him yet because he's a wave everybody off and go one on four type guy and then he scores. So he seems like a natural worst case scenario, like a Lou Williams 2.0, but maybe better

than that. But yeah, every year there's more point guards coming. and we already have too many point cards. How do you value that? Because if you have an overflow of a position, does that devalue it in some ways because it's easier to find a replacement? I don't really know the answer to that,

but I wonder if that's something perhaps that teams consider with what they're paying a player because there's a lot of point guards. You know, like that came in this year, we had seven or eight of them that are going to be productive players for a long time. Another two at least coming in this season. So I don't know.

I don't know if you're a veteran point guard, if you're going to get paid because it's so easy to find a young replacement. Well, look at this year. Mitchell's the best of all of them. Lonzo, who we'll get to in a second, has opened my eyes in the last week before he got hurt. Fox, so early. I think he's going to be good still. Smith is going to be good.

There's four. So we have four guys that we think, I don't know, out of those four, I would say Mitchell's the best bet to start an all-star game. I think Lonzo, it's conceivable. Fox, who knows, Smith, who knows. But, you know, it's a stack position. My guess and my prediction would be that I think there's going to be so many of them that teams are just going to play them two at a time. The dragage, Isaiah Thomas.

More multi-ball handler offenses. Yeah, just like, hey, we're going to spread the floor and we have two different guys who can beat anyone off the dribble. Good luck. And then we'll take our loves defensively. It's almost like the league is getting what it needs at the right time with more teams playing small ball, more spacing, more ball. more ball movement, they're getting the point guards that they need to play that style most effectively.

At the same time, I am getting a little, a tiny bit bored by the spread the floor offense, the what Houston does, what Cleveland was doing at the end during the Christmas games yesterday. I just like movement. I like cutting. I don't like the whole three guys are just going to stand in a spot and be ready to shoot. I'm getting a tiny bit bored of it. There's a difference, though, between like what Houston does or what some other teams do with their ball movement and body movement, too, with Houston.

then it's yeah it is a lot of standing around perimeter passes it's not as much driving and kicking out to three point range like you said with cleveland as well a lot of perimeter passing but i still think there's plenty of teams that still incorporate a mixture of both and and you know it's it's interesting because charles barclay last night on the broadcast is talking about how analytics is ruining the game and i disagree with that but i do wonder what is the threshold where like if you have 20 teams that play exactly like Houston. Maybe it's true that analytics ruin the game, but I don't think it's going to get to that point ever.

So I think Houston is just an outlier compared to everybody else. And maybe you end up with two or three other teams that play like that. But I think you're still going to have a lot of different teams playing different styles that continue to make it interesting. I think the annoying thing, though, is that bad teams are starting to play like that. Like, the Clippers aren't good.

There's a lot of just Austin Rivers or Lou Williams and Isaac's nodding over there. He knows. Austin Rivers or Lou Williams and everybody else standing around and DeAndre Jordan kind of waiting to get the rebound if it misses. It's like this different version of basketball that I think is cute, but I'm not sure I 100% like. But what's really annoying is that it's the most effective way to play and I totally get it. I'm not against the reasons behind it, but I wish there was incentive not to play that way. And Golden State has done, I think they've made the most concerted effort to just,

have everybody touch the ball. Boston's another one. They just want to have everybody kind of touch it and be moving. But then Boston last five minutes, especially the last couple weeks, we've just seen a lot of one-on-one at the end of games and a lot of guys just standing in the corner. And, you know, look, 15 years ago they were doing this too, and it was much worse to watch because the spacing wasn't as good. Post-ups. Maybe this is just, maybe these guys are too good. Let's go to the next one. Memphis, 10 and 23. My thing for them, the fact that the Celtics have their pick, I think is kind of an underrated NBA story right now. Top eight protected next year, top six in 2020, unprotected in 2021, and there is no roadmap for Memphis to get better.

They could try to do a Conley and or Gasol trades and totally blow it up and hope that, you know, they keep their pick this year. They would be a top three worst team a year from now. And then whoever they get in that draft would soften the blow for the year after. But the Parsons contract just completely murders them. There's no way to, there's no free agent way for them to get better. There's really no way for them to get better. And that pick is going to be an awesome pick. And by the way, Chicago could have had that pick for Jimmy Butler.

Indiana could have had that pick for Paul George, although they made out pretty well. But it's yet another chess piece for Danny. It's amazing. What's your thing for Memphis? It's what I wrote about today, leading my article. Tyreek Evans, just kind of his renaissance this season. He suddenly looks like the guy coming back from two knee injuries. that everybody expected his entire career after his rookie season.

It's been fun to watch Tyreek Evans. And granted, yes, he could be one of those good stats on a bad team guys. But he looks really good. He should be a top trade target. Put aside the star players that everybody talks about, the DeAndre Jordan types. Tyree Kevin should really be a top target for any team that needs scoring off the bench or maybe a secondary score in the starting unit.

Never mind his playmaking abilities as well. Evans has been really, really good. Yeah, I mean, even you look at a team like the, Celtics, who the bench scoring and kind of the second unit creator has just been one of the reasons that they've started a struggle. They don't have that second, when Kyrie's not on the four, they don't have that second person who can really create points. But I think there's a lot of teams like that. And those guys always go for a first round pick in February. I think he fetches that. I'm still not convinced on the three-point shooting yet. Me neither. I think with the NBA,

the one thing I've noticed, especially this year, because everybody is so desperate to just run with advanced stats on everything and offensive rating and five-man lineups, all this stuff. The sample sizes are so small. You know, you could be shooting 50% on threes after 30 games and you're 43 for 87. And if you miss like six, it's a wild swing. I just think three-point shooting especially makes me nervous to jump the conclusions. He's somebody that never really made them. So we'll see. I do think he's a trapeas. Chicago is next. They're 10 and 22. They're the feel-good story of the year. Meritich, who has had one of the roller coaster NBA careers of this decade, has been a gem at times, has been a trade contract, Albatross, other times, gets in a fight.

Now him and Bobby Portis, they make plays, they're high-fiving. I've never been more confused by a team. He is an interesting trade piece because his contract's not guaranteed for next year. I'm not even sure they would trade him. But what's really jumped out at me with them is that Chris Dunn might be salvageable. I think he's 25. I think he might actually be older than Stephen Adams. But he's actually 23. So he is older for a second year. Oh, he's 23. Okay. I thought he was old. I thought he was older. 23, yeah. My bad. Stephen Adams, I think is like 15. But Chris Dunn, who seemed like a bust and seemed like he can't shoot, he's showing a little something, something. And if he turns into anything and they re-signed Zach Levine for a relatively reasonable contract and then

Marking in, not the worst haul in the world for Jimmy Butler. I still don't like it, but at least not it's not a disaster. What's your thing for Chicago? Fred Hoyberg. Hoyberg, I mean, you give him pieces that kind of fit what he wants to do. They've played better. I mean, granted, they had a horrific record before that six-game, seven-game win-streek, or six-game win-streek.

I think Hoyberg deserves some credit for getting Meritich and Portis to play effectively together. Yeah. To be able to just move on from that instant. Yeah, yeah, exactly, not punch each other again. Correct, they're going to have a bad record, right? They're going to finish the season near the bottom of the standings, but the record isn't what's important. It's about the development of the individual players.

Larry Marketer and continuing to, you know, battle through the struggles he's had recently and get back to what he was early in the season. Denzel Valentine continuing to make progress. You mentioned Chris Dunn. Hoyberg was very important with Dunn improving his three-point shooting, and we'll see how that sustains. But Hoyberg is getting an opportunity to coach a younger team and really, I think, lay a foundation for the type of system he wants, rather than having players like Wade and Rondo,

who granted they can still contribute in their own way and their new situations weren't fits for that type of style. So I think Hoyberg deserves credit, never mind in the front office for acquiring some of the players that they have, like David Nawaba off the bench. Bulls aren't necessarily in great shape. The Jimmy Butler trade still wasn't perfect, but it looks a little bit better now than it did then. Orlando is 11 and 23. This will be their sixth straight year as a Mount tank more entry in Tankapalooza, which is more important than ever because it really does seem like we might have four blue trippers in this in this draft, Trey Young, who I don't know when I want to talk to you about Trey Young. I don't even want to, I might save that for my podcast.

I don't even want to have this on this podcast. It doesn't, it's, I'm too excited for it. But Orlando, I guess you could say Aaron Gordon is a potential all-star. I've liked what I've seen from Jonathan Isaac, but to tank for six straight years and the best things you have to show for it are Aaron Gordon and the hope of Jonathan Isaac is pretty rough. Did they even really tank, though? I mean, would that ebacetry that they made? They were trying to make a push. They were trying to push. I mean, if anything, maybe they should have tried to tank harder than they actually did. We need a different word for tank when you're unintentionally tanking. It's like incompetent tank. Yeah. You're just terrible at this. I think they tried to tank for a couple of.

years, but you're right. They definitely didn't try to think that. And this year, I even think they probably had hopes going into it. But I don't know if Aaron Gordon's an all-star this year. I was looking at it. And I wrote down who I thought the East All-Stars could be. So I had LeBron, Giannis, Cairozen, Olad, Ola-Dipo, Embed, Porzingis, Bradley Beal, Drummond, Kevin Love, Ben Simmons, Al-Horford, and Gordon. Gordon's missed some time, too. Well, he's missed some time, so I don't think he makes it. Is there any other All-Star? I listed 12 guys.

Is there anyone else you could see in there? Like, Kemba, the Hornets are 12 and 21. I don't see how he makes it. Not off the top of my head, but that Orlando team, Gordon's really the only bright spot on that team. Even Hizonia having a great shooting game the other night, you're still feeling kind of worried moving forward because of the fact that he's just hitting three. I mean, you want to see him develop more of a diverse game. With Orlando, it's just worrisome. They have a lot of holes on that roster.

What's your one thing for them? It's Zonia. He's a guy that I was extremely high on in the draft, and I was dead wrong about him. And at the same time, I'm still not totally giving up. I'm still holding on a little bit. So it's been nice seeing that from him lately. But at the same time, I'm feeling like I just got it dead wrong with him. I think at best, maybe he turns into a J.R. Smith late in his career.

You know, an inconsistent guy off your bench. And maybe that wouldn't be such a bad, result for him, but I'm not too confident about that at this point either. Feels like he's this decade's Rudy Fernandez. It seems like he should be good, but he's really not. Now, here's where the Blazer friends, Rudy was really good in 2008. No, Rudy was tantalizing and never put it together, and it feels like Hazonia's going to be a little like that too.

Sacramento's 11 and 21. We didn't really understand what they were doing this summer with a combination of throwing money around, but then also building around youth. it certainly wouldn't have been my choice for a game plan. My one thing for them, the boogie trade... You don't like Buddy? They get Buddy Healed, who I think he's a bench guy. He's a second unit shooter.

Possibly in the right team, maybe he's in the corner in a J.R. Smith role, if he's playing with like LeBron, something like that. And then they ended up getting the 10th pick in that trade, which they flipped into the 15th and 20th picks, and Boogie Cousins has been one of the eight best players in the league this season. So once again, the lesson, as always, don't trade a blue chip, A. Lister. Just don't. Just don't do it under any circumstances. What's your one thing for Sacramento?

It revolves around Costas Cufus playing around 17, 18 minutes per game. It's a kind of just a, I don't understand the lack of Scalibisia. I don't understand playing a veteran, you know, who you know who he is over developing a young player like Scal. Yeah. That part is just disappointing to me where Scal is not getting consistent run 20, 25 minutes or rather even more like even closer to 30 minutes every single night. I think you're in a position where if you're the Kings that you have a chance to develop these guys, these young players who do have talent. It's not like they have nothing on their team. They have some good young players.

Willi Cahilley Stine, Buddy Healed. Scalibisier. I don't like Malachi Richardson, but some might. I think playing those young guys would be a little bit more preferable over playing these older veterans, like the George Hill, Zach Randolph, Costa Cufus types. It seems like the better strategy for them would have been to go all young and keep a ton of cap space and be the cap facilitator, a little like what Sean Marks did with Brooklyn with some of the guys he was able to land over just spending on George Hill and Zach Randolph. I did not understand that strategy. Before we talk about the Lakers, I know America is waiting for that conversation.

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Go to audible.com slash NBA or text NBA to 500-500 to get started today. Lakers, 11 and 21. A couple things to mention with them. I've been so encouraged with what I saw from Lonzo the last week. I know I hate the Lakers with every fiber in my body, but I also love basketball. And it's much more fun if Lonzo's good. The aggressiveness that he showed in a couple of those games the last couple weeks

and how hard he was attacking and just trying to do stuff, I thought it was super encouraging. But that's not my thing. I'm just really impressed by Kuzma as an offense of basketball player. He's really, really advanced. and polished at a position that it's hard to find guys who have the array of skills that he has. I think we were all kind of waiting and see if this was going to be a flash in the pan or the summer league carried into the first couple weeks and then he was going to fade off.

And I just don't think he's fading off. I think this is who he is. I'm really, really, really impressed by him. I think he's an excellent player on offense. I don't know about the defense part yet, but I think he's really good. They got a gym at 27. Congrats. Mine's Kuzma too.

I want to see them feed him the ball more. I want to see what he's really capable of. Like I said, with the Kings, I want to see those young guys play more. If you're the Lakers, Kuzma's already playing it plenty. What I want to see is get him more shots, feed him more opportunity, put him in positions where you're leaning on him to score. I mean, the last couple of games, 18 shots, 19 shots, 15 shots, 17, 16. That's more like around the range that I would like to see him, even more so the rest of the

season because I want to see what this guy is really capable of. 22-year-old rookie 27 of the pick in the drafts already averaging 18. It's not inconceivable that if this is for real, he's a guy that can average in the low 20s for you, the rest of the season if you're feeding him the opportunity. I mean, his footwork for his age and his really experience level was outstanding. I think I think Kuzman deserves a lot of credit for transforming his game over this summer because he's a different guy. I mean, people can say that the NBA missed on Kuzma, but Kuzma deserves credit for transforming his game. I mean, he's elevated his game to another level. So it's not necessarily the teams missed.

It's that I think Cousa really helped set himself apart from what he once was. I read an interesting quote from Donovan Mitchell when somebody asked him, why is he doing this? Why is he playing so well? Why is he better in the pros than he was in college? And he was good in college. And he said, when I was in college, I was taking five classes a semester and doing all these other things. Now my whole job is to play basketball. Of course I should be better at it.

It kind of made sense. It was a weird quote that made me think. And I'm thinking, like, yeah, this is all these guys do is play basketball. And in some cases, that's actually worse for them, that they lose their structure and, you know, they're on their own a lot and stuff like that. In other ways, in a case with somebody who's a really hard worker, like Mitchell or Kuzma, who this is all they're doing, you know, you see some benefits. Phoenix, 12 and 23. I think they win the weirdo roster of the year award. they're a weirder roster? Can you name a weirder roster?

I think the kings are kind of weird with their old vets, Vince Carter on that team, but Phoenix is up there. They have three centers. They have four power forwards. They had a starting point guard who was on a two-way contract that they then signed for a full contract. Then they waived them. They have Greg Monroe who's just dying to be bought out. And we should mention, this would be my one thing for them with Greg Monroe. I think they're going to buy them out. Now, the Celtics could either wink, wink, or they could actually just have a conversation with either Monroe's agent

or they probably would have to do from a fake, from a burner account. But Phoenix could just buy Monroe out for the second half of this season, which I think is $17 million for $0. Just be like, we're letting you out, we don't owe you anything. And the Celtics could then immediately give him $8.4 million from the Gordon Hayward injury exception and make up the money and pay it to them, you know, the rest of the way they can even do something where it's like $8.4 million this year and then next year, $8.4 million,

but they can buy him out for $2 million and they could get him $10 million basically for this year. There's ways to rig the finances so that he loses no money. And I think he's somebody that they need. I think he could make a difference for them in the playoffs. I think they're actively looking to figure out how to get better. And I would keep an eye on that one. What's your one thing for Phoenix? Monroe's good.

The one guy that comes to mind for me is Marquis, Chris, and he is not good. Yeah, he is not good. Chris, he is a guy when they drafted him, he was something that you know, you know was going to take a while to develop. You knew he's raw, and he's going to take years to become the player that you hope he does. But granted, he's only 20. Granted, it's only his second season. I mean, he looks worse than last season.

And that's a scary part for me. There's still bad habits on defense, still falling way too much. hasn't improved his three-point shot at all. He just might be another one of those theoretical players. One of those guys you look at, you know, an incredible athlete. The potential is obvious, but he just doesn't put it together. And there's still a lot of time, but, man, I'm worried with him. And that was a home run swing pick for the Phoenix Suns.

It was a calculated risk, but it could be a swing and a miss. It was a weird point of the draft, right? It was right when the draft dropped off and nobody kind of knew who to take next, and they traded up and took a swing, as you said, but who did they miss out on? I don't even remember. Well, I think with that pick, they traded, I believe, 13 and 28, so I want to say, 13 and 28 plus Bogdanovich. Right.

And between that 8 and 13, it was Pertil, Thonmaker, Sabonis, Turin Prince, and then Papianus went there. So they didn't miss out on a lot of guys in that range. And even going down the line, Denzel, Juan Hernan Gomez, Gerchran Yebyssela, Wade Baldwin, and so on. There wasn't really somebody that they missed. That's why it was a good point for that swing. I would have done the trade again. I think that's a risk you take, considering the spot Phoenix was in. They had to consolidate picks.

I thought it was a good trade for both teams, but it just might not work out. I liked what you said in your piece today about Yaviseli. I totally agree. I actually wish the Celtics would play him more. I like every moment that he's had in a Celtic game this year. I've been fascinated by him and excited to watch him. And he brings a collection of skills to the table that are just unique. He's built like a brick shit house.

He looks like a left tackle. And he can shoot threes and he jumps and he plays with a lot of passion. I just like him. I wish they would play him. And he's in limbo too. He's one of those guys. Every time he's in the G league, he dominates, right? But then he's not quite good enough to get playing time on the Celtics roster.

So he's hidden. I think if I'm another organization, I'm thinking we want at Yibu Selle in any deal that we do with you, he would be the guy I would target. I wouldn't trade him. I would keep them and play him. I think there's minutes to be had in the way that Rozier and Smart have been shooting. Both of them are like 30. I think Rozier is 37%.

Smart's 33% in having one of the worst shooting seasons in recent NBA history. I would start throwing shit to the wall. We'll talk about the Celtics later, but opportunities on the second unit, it's hard to say that they have a good bench right now. So I would like to see, I'd like to see him play. It's shaky. Charlotte, 12 and 21. Just kind of one of those snake bit,

years for them. It's a team that feels like they need to make a three for one, but I don't know who the one is and I don't know which three they'd give up. They've had injuries. They're not terrible. Like they're 12 and 21, but their point differential is only minus 1.9, which I think is interesting. I don't know what I do if I'm them. I don't know what they are and this is my one thing for them. I'm worried about Monk. I really liked him and I might have just been wrong. What do you see with Monk so far? It's so early and he hasn't gotten nearly enough time that I don't even know it's fair to make an assessment on his game. Like there just hasn't been enough time to really say a lot about him.

I think in his minutes, he still needs to get better defensively, still needs to improve his ball handling. Some of the flaws that were there in Kentucky are still there. And he's shooting 34% from three. That's a small sample. I think I think Monk will be fine. Okay. But the sample so far is just too small to overreact either way. Can I overreact with this at least?

Feel free. Everyone who passed on Donovan Mitchell after, part of me wants to say pick six, but let's say pick nine to be safe. That's a disaster. Mitchell's a star. That guy, that would keep me awake at night if I was like, I don't know, Stan Van Gundy.

And I took Luke Conard over him. And by the way, I like Luke Conard. I think he's going to be, he'll be a really good third guard at some point in his life. But, man, to pass on Mitchell, that's just you don't sleep. at night after that happens. In the Ringer NBA draft guide, I had Mitchell go in eighth, and I had heard some noise

close to the draft that there was, there was possibility that he might get drafted in that late seven to nine range. I didn't know which team, so I just put him at eight. It just felt right. And I do wonder how much of that, you know, may have been the case where these teams, you knew he's good. You know he's good. I mean, there was a story years ago I've heard where the Timberwolves really, really

liked Paul George in his draft, but they ended up taking Wesley Johnson. They didn't go with their instincts. And I do wonder if there was a little bit of that, um, with the picks teams made in that range with guys like Jonathan Isaac, Markanin, Nili Kina, Smith Jr. where it's like, you want to take Mitchell. And that's what your instincts are telling you to do, but you just can't pull the trigger. Um, for whatever reason. Um, I think, I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of group think still. I mean, when nobody has Mitchell ranked top five, if you're the one guy that has them ranked fourth, you're thinking, am I missing something? I think that's only natural.

That's been one thing with the Celtics that they really stick to their guns with stuff like that. You know, when they just like somebody, they don't really, I don't think they look at the list. I think some teams, I'm sure they're not the only team, but I think it's dangerous sometime to look at the list. If you have your rankings, why do you care what Jonathan Givini thinks? Or what do we think what Kevin O'Connor and Bill Simmons thinks?

Like, your whole job is to scout these guys. you should stick to your guns, you know? I wonder with the Knicks, you read all these stories about how dysfunctional they were this summer. And, you know, Ian Begley wrote on ESPN this week, he wrote yet another, like, well-sourced, Mello Phil Jackson thing. And it really does seem like Phil wanted to trade Porzingus and that there was real movement in the building for that to happen.

And you think, like, they basically had this basketball senile guy running the operations who was ready to, trade Porzingis, which is insane, and who is in charge of this really valuable pick, the eighth pick. I still like Frankie Nicotine, but, you know, if you put Mitchell on that next team, holy shit, it's probably a four seed. So, I don't know, I feel bad. Yet again, the Knicks fans get screwed.

What was your one thing for Charlotte? Did you have one? Kenbo Walker. Yeah. I forget who tweeted this out the other night, but someone put up the stats with the Hornets on-off net rating with Kembo on the floor versus when he's off. They outscore teams by five points per 100 possession when Kemba is on the floor. That's really good.

But when he's off the floor, they get outscored by 15 points per 100 possessions, which is just bottom of the barrel, just terrible. So with Kemba Walker, they are drastically different teams when he's on the floor compared to when he's not on the floor. And those on-off stats are noisy. There's a lot of variables that go into those. But the point is that they're not bad with Kemba, but they're pretty terrible. terrible without him. I think Kemba's a guy where he's a good example of one of those point

guards. You know, we talked earlier with Lonzo, with Frankie Nicotine, with all these young guys. It takes years for them to develop and Kemba has continuously gotten better over the years into the player that he is now. Yeah. I don't love those on-off stats because in my opinion, you should be better when your best parts of the floor, you know? But 20 points better is a significant difference. Well, but that's the thing. When the number gets that high, then you have to really start looking at that and being like, wow, what are we doing? What are we doing wrong? How is there a 20-point swing when Kimball Walker's not on the floor?

Next one. The feel good story of the year, the Brooklyn Nets. Brooklyn. They just keep plugging away. 12 and 20. They are really hard to put in any tanking stuff because they have no incentive of the tank because they don't have their first round pick. The Kuzman trade hurts.

It seemed like an awesome trade at the time, but now like to give up Lopez as an expiring, but then more importantly, Kuzma, to get Russell back and the terrible Moskhov contract back, somehow they didn't get the best player in the deal, and they thought they did. And I like Russell, he's been hurt. And I defend the trade, I think it was great. It just hurts that, of all people to be in that trade,

Kuzma is the one that ends up, the one they give up, who would have been the lottery pick that they didn't have the last three years. But I like what I see from that team. This goes back to the point I made before. It's just, you know, even the bad teams or the teams that don't have a lot of hope are really kind of fun to watch this year. The NFL's not like that.

If you watch a Browns game, the Browns suck. If you know, if you watch the Cardinals or the Texans without Deshaun Watson, there's 12 NFL teams that it's just a bad time to watch them. And Brooklyn, a team that has no really identifiable stars at all, you watch them play. And it's, they're just entertaining to watch. They play basketball well. And I don't know, kudos to them. What do you have for them? And the reason why they're fun is, you know, the first thing I think of with that team,

it's Kenny Atkinson, the system he's installed. Yeah. A lot of ball movement, a lot of three-point shooting, a lot of body movement as well, off the ball. I really like what Kenny Atkinson has done with that team. I think they're going to be really good once they plug in the right guys, if they plug in the right guys over the next couple seasons when they're putting that roster together. They're fun. I think they're laying a really strong foundation.

I think you're seeing guys kind of grow into their roles with that team. Karis Levert has kind of taken some steps forward this season. DeAngelo Russell early in the year looked better offensively. Ronday Hollis Jefferson has continuously gotten better. Even a guy, Nick Stouskas, has looked pretty solid since they got him, despite not playing at all for Philly this year. Brooklyn has a really nice system, and Kenny Atkinson's right at the center at that. Clippers, 13 and 19.

Hold on. I'm going to give Isaac some liquor. Isaac, take a shot. I'll say this. The bad times are back. I'm kind of enjoying it. It's really hard to sell tickets on any sort of outlet. It's hard to give them away.

You have this Kings Clipper game tonight. I think there might be 9,000 people there. Everybody's hurt. The Gallinari signing looks like the worst signing of the season. And not a lot of hope. And yet they still have Blake Griffin. They're probably going to flip blue wool. Williams into something. But the thing that jumps out to me out of everything is Austin Rivers.

And he has the highest ceiling, lowest basement of any part in the league, game to game. He scored 38 the other night. 38 after a 36 point game. Scorching hot. And then he'll have nights like the one I went to two weeks ago or three weeks ago with you at the Timberwolves game when everyone in our section was just laughing at him because he just like the all-time irrational confident with no real reason to be confident guy. but then he'll have 38 and 36 and back-to-back nights. What a roller coaster ride.

And on top of that, he's related to the coach who just wants to get bought out. Incredible. Classic Clippers. The best. What do you have? My first thought is not any singular player or anything. It's, if anything, maybe they should just keep Blue Williams and just stay with this team and maybe make a late season push and try to sneak in as a six, seven or eight steed.

You woke up by Isaac. I mean, why blow it up? I mean, they were a team that they looked good early in the season when they were healthy. They were a team that I liked a lot before the season when I completely ignored their injury concerns or didn't factor in it enough. Maybe, maybe what if they stay healthy in the second half of the season? I think maybe that's a gamble you take because, look, is a late first round pick or like a second round pick really going to move the needle much for you to get that for Lou Williams? Maybe you're better off just rolling the dice and hoping these guys stay healthy once, gets back once Gallinari gets back rather than blowing it up and trade in DJ.

Unless it's an overwhelming offer, maybe you just keep pushing and see what this team could turn into if they're healthy. Well, I have a fun little exercise for you. I actually think you're right. I think they are not going to trade Lou Ames, but I have a different reason. Go through all the contenders that would trade for him. Golden State's not trading for him. Celtics aren't trading for him.

Houston, I don't think has a first round pick. I don't think they're legally allowed to trade for him. Cleveland doesn't have They're not giving up the Brooklyn pick for them Right? And they don't have... They have their own pick though. So you think Channing Frye?

Well, they have Isaiah coming back. They're not trading for Lou Williams. I'm crossing them off. Yeah, I agree. Toronto's not trading for him. San Antonio's not trading for him. Minnesota? I don't see it.

Indiana, I think, is interesting. That would be the one team. Just keep going though. Washington, Oklahoma City is not adding money. Detroit already has a backup point card. Denver's 18 and 15. They're not giving up their first rounder. Really the only team that would even really consider trading for Lou Williams,

who might actually add something to them is Indiana. And we should mention Indiana has the eighth best record in basketball right now and is pretty much either going to be a four or five seed would be my guess. And they have Darren Collison as their point card. Corey Joseph is the backup. And I don't think they would try. for them either. So I think the quippers are going to be stuck with the win so they like it or not. What about DJ though? I mean, would you move him or would you continue to stick it out and perhaps

or or maybe you move him anyway. Maybe it's not a draft pick you move him for. Maybe it's another player you trade DJ for. I don't see who's the player who wants a $22 million center who could opt out of his contract at the end of the year. The only trade I could really see was that Tristan Thompson combo. But yeah, I think I think the move for them is to give this another month and kind of wait to see what happens. 13 and 19 is not undoable. Like they could sneak into a seven or eight. But I also think it would be really hard to trade anybody.

The thing that really kills them is that Gallo contract. Because even if they just had not done that and they had the cap space, they would have so much more flexibility with whatever they want to do. And we saw him in person and the eye test did not back it up either with him. He looks slow. I think he's still hurt. And it's been kind of a nightmare signing. That was his first game back, though.

I know, but he just, I watched him. I saw him in the first two weeks. He looked bad. Yeah. And he's missed time, I think. I think he played one more game after that one that we saw. And he has missed every game since then again with the partial tear in his glute. Dude's always hurt.

I wonder what is the future of those kind of six nine, six, ten. shooter guys who can't, you can't be the five in a small ball team, but yet if you play them with a center, it's too easy for the other team to go small and attack them. And they can't really post up. Like, I think about this with Sarge, too, who you wrote about in the ringer piece today. I like Sarge.

I'm not sure what the right situation is for him. I don't feel like he's in the right situation right now with the team he's on. But what is the right situation for these 6-10 kind of playmaker? but if he's the number one playmaker, you're not really going anywhere. What do we do with those guys? It's an interesting point because I was thinking along the similar lines with the Sarich article.

I wrote that and then I'm kind of looking back at him. I'm like, well, what if this is actually just who he is in today's NBA, where he's actually, he's a good playmaker. He's a great passer, but he's not good enough in this category or that category to warrant him getting the opportunity. And Gallinari, Sarich, you know, guys in that type of mold, maybe they are kind of the new tweener. Yeah.

Where, yeah, maybe that's the new type of tweener in today's league. But at the same time, I still think put Sarich in a position where he's essentially not, maybe not running the bench unit, but he's getting the primary playmaking on a bench unit. I still think he can be supremely effective in that role for whatever team Sarich were to land on. And maybe Gallinari, if healthy, I mean, look, let's not forget, this guy has been really, really good when healthy the past three, four seasons in Denver. He's turned into a really good player. I think with these guys, you talk about position, it almost doesn't matter what position they are offensively. It's the position that they defend defensively on that end of the floor. They need to be able to defend.

And Sarich has been relatively average on that end, and Gallinari is maybe above average on the defensive end. So I think with those guys, they need to be able to defend, and you need to be able to hold your own against guards because the amount of the frequency teams are switching. I'm not worried about Gallinari's offense, though. I think that guy can play on that end of the floor. He's a really good offensive player. Yeah, but you left out two things.

One is he never stays on the floor. He always misses 20 games a year or more. Two, I wondered about this when they signed him, and then when I actually saw them in person, it was confirmed. just in 2017, to throw out a front line of Gallinari, Griffin, and Jordan makes no sense. It has nothing in common with anything else that's happening in basketball.

And defensively, they're really challenged. And then offensively, I just think that arguably Griffin should be a five at this point in his career on the right team, almost like Janice, where the highest ceiling of how to use it might be as a center, yeah, or Draymond. DeAndre is clearly a five. And I think Gallo, in the way we play basketball now, he's four at least.

So I don't know what made them think all three of them would play together. It seemed weird at the time. And then you watch it. It seems even we're even weirder. That's what I was getting at with flipping DJ for another player. Maybe if you're able to find a wing and those guys aren't easy to find, but maybe you're reconstruct your roster a little bit where Blake is playing more five gallows at the four and you're playing more small ball.

You have your center, a lower cost alternative coming off the bench or starting and playing fewer minutes. I'm not saying like the Houston format. I'm not even saying like a guy like Capella, but have a guy that can get you 15, 20 minutes per game, more so than the 25, 30 minutes per game at the traditional center spot. Their dream trade, which Milwaukee, I don't think would do, would be Middleton for DeAndre.

Yes, something along those lines where you get a wing and you're playing Blake at the five to start games, or you're starting like Montres, Harold. for three minutes and then you pull him and he only plays like 15 minutes the entire game because you're playing primarily small ball because they have a lot of ball handlers. They have a lot of players in their back court with Tia Dosech, Lou Williams, even Joanne Evans, Austin Rivers. They have a lot of ball handlers where maybe that type of style would be better for them

where you're just going all in on the offensive end and really not worrying a little bit about what you lose with the rebounding and defense from D'Andre. Well, Kevin, when you move to L.A., I don't think you're buying a car right away. I think it's a smart move. Why would you? You got Uber. Uber's a safe and comfortable way to get where you need to be. For sporting events, you don't have to pay for parking or spend time looking for a spot.

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Utah. My biggest disappointment this year, it's not their fault. They just seemed snake bit with the Go Bear thing. I don't think they expected the Rubio slash Mitchell thing. And my one thought for them is they're clearly a Derek Favors trade

waiting to happen. He's an expiring contract. The mechanics of that trade, whether Rubio is involved in it, what they get back. In my mind, they are a top three most likely team

to make a trade over the next seven weeks. And I'll be interested to see who is their partner and what they get back. What's your thing? We mentioned Mitchell earlier. He would be the guy,

but besides him, Roddy Hood. He's an interesting player. It'll be a free agent next summer. Has developed well. The problem is he hasn't been healthy. And that's continuously been the issue for him over his entire career, even going back to college for that matter.

He just doesn't stay healthy. He always has nagging leg injuries. So with Rodney Hood, he's been good. And he's developed. He's looking like the diverse score that I think they would have liked to have seen. I think he's probably, in a way, been what they expected minus the health. So I've been impressed by Rodney Hood, but he needs to stay healthy. And that's the big thing.

And I'm looking forward to seeing what he gets paid this next summer, too. One thing with Utah, I do kind of enjoy the point differential stats, primitive. You know I love primitive advanced metrics. Utah is plus one for the season right now, 15 and 19. So I was actually, I was on 82games.com. Old school site. Yeah, old school. But they had this stat about 10 point leads, 10.

deficit, close games, all this stuff, but like teams' records once they fall behind by 10 points at any point during a game. So I was interested. The reason I was looking for this was because the Celtics have been behind by 10 points and it seemed like an inordinate amount of times for a good team. And it was actually 14 times they've been down by 10. Can you guess what their record is in those 14 games after they fall behind by 10? 9 and 5?

7 and 7. Only Golden State is 7 and 3 when they fall behind by 10. Houston is 5 and 5 when they fall behind by 10. Everybody else is under 500. So anyway, I was looking at I wanted to find the close game stuff for a couple of teams. Utah is 3 and 7 in close games. So I don't know. As the year goes long, could they swing that?

I think so. I think they got off to a kind of a shaky start with health last year as well. And then they did kind of figure things out as the team got healthy. We could see a repeat of that this season. Quinn Snyder's a great coach. I think he puts guys in positions to succeed. Our last under 500 team, Philadelphia, 15 and 18, and easily could have lost last night and been 14 and 19,

which could potentially have been, I don't know. They're in a danger zone here if Embed misses another two-week stretch because you got Miami at 17 and 16, and Knicks at 17 and 16. It's a three-way battle for that eighth playoff spot, assuming they want it. But my thing for Philly, I want to say this cautiously because the Sixers fans have replaced Portland Trailblazer fans as the biggest psychos in the league. I think Embed is like-

No comment. I think Embed is like weirdly overrated. He's putting up stats. But when I watch him play, I think there's so much room for him to be better. And I think that's the tantalizing part of it. that the half court plays they run with him, he's so sloppy with the ball. And it seems like he can barely dribble.

Like Kyle O'Quinn in the Christmas game yesterday was kind of attacking him when he had the ball from 20 feet. And it's like, Embed barely knows how to dribble. And I just wonder as the year goes along, our team's going to become, teams are going to up the ante with how they defend him. And whether it's an offensive, whatever they're doing, like with play calling and spacing,

and all that stuff or whatever. I don't like how they use him. And I think it's actually a disservice to him. I don't understand why he has the ball 20 feet from the basket. I would have him posting up seven feet from the basket because all he does is take two steps and he's at the rim and he's unstoppable. I don't like when he's 20 feet for the basket. And I'm not positive he knows what he's doing in any remote way yet.

I think he is getting to 25 and 12 a night or 22 and 12, whatever he gets every night, just because he has so much raw talent. My point is, I don't think he has any idea what he's doing it. That's my Joe Al-M-Bid point. You are up KS-C. That's why M-Bid is so exciting, though, because he's so raw, and he's already so amazing, considering the fact he's so raw and experienced. I think that's what makes him such really, like you said, tantalizing talent.

I think with Embed, I don't know if he's overrated at all. I think, I think of anything, I said a couple of weeks ago, you think I'm crazy for saying it. He has greatest big man, big man of all time upside. He's probably not going to get there. But there's at least a little bit of a tiny chance for him to reach that level because of how good he already is and because of his upside once he does learn the little

intricacies of the game. I think with him, obviously that question is health, but it's also technique and proving is a three-point shooter. It's stamina. There's so many things that he needs to get better at. And that's what I mean with the over. overrated thing. Obviously, he's an incredibly talented player would be one of the six or seven guys

you'd want to start a team with right now, though I do worry about the injury stuff. But when I watch him, I see just an unpolished gym and a guy who really has no idea what he's doing yet. And a guy who turns the ball over a lot, who on defense gets lost, and is just kind of learning how to play basketball, but has so much natural talent that he's putting up these huge stats. And I think people are making the mistake of thinking, you know, I think people are going to vote for him for first team O MBA, which is crazy because I don't, I'm not positive he knows what he's doing yet. And he's going to take a while. I really wish that they would help him out in a couple different ways, the way they use him. I don't know. I get frustrated watching him because there's some

common sense test stuff that just they seem to be feeling with how they use him. We're on the same page, though. I think he's incredibly talented. But I also think against the right team, he'd be really easy to stop. So I talked to an assistant coach a couple weeks back about Embed. And his comment was along the lines of what you're saying. He basically said something along the lines of where he thinks Embedd is incredibly overrated in the sense that they're not worried about him when he's out at three-point range because he's a 28% three-point shooter. They're not worried about him out there. But they're also not over worried about him in the post either because he's not exactly the most efficient player from there. He's not the best passer from there.

Unless he's drawing fouls and getting to the free throw line, which he does quite a lot. He's not the most significant threat, not the most significant threat as a passer. And he made the point off defensively. You know, you bring him out to the perimeter. He's really not as good as his reputation makes him out to be on that end of the floor either. So his point was that And Bid has the potential to be great, but right now he's not as great as everybody makes him out to be. And I've been thinking a lot about that since then. I don't necessarily agree to the extent that, you know, the point he was making where he's not worried about Joel Mbitt. I think that at the same time, I do think that perhaps maybe we have jumped the gun a little bit with where Mbid is right now.

But at the same time, it's like, it's only a second year. Right. It's only a second year. He hasn't even played basketball in his life for 10 years. I think with Embed, we're not even close to what his upside could be. And that's, I mean, you can say he's overrated right now, but his upside certainly isn't at all overrated. I mean, he is an incredible talent.

Yeah, I don't think it's his fault that is overrated. I'm just saying people are discussing him like he's this finished product that he's, on the list, like they'll throw his name in with all the other greats. And, you know, the fact that Janus versus Ambid is even in argument anywhere is insane to me. is flat out incredible in having one of the great seasons and is just an absolute machine. Embed is shooting 49% and 7 foot 3. It's like he's turning the ball over four times a game. And when I watch him, it really seems like it's pretty easy to stop him if you have the right people.

And there's a lot of room for him to grow. And I guess my point is when we talk about Embed, we should be talking about this guy who is just has a ton of raw, untapped talent. but is putting up stats anyway, which kind of, there's really no parallel for him, you know? Like, a young Hakeem was a little bit like this, but Hakeem had spent a few years in college and could also really dominate on the other end. And that's why when I hear people compare and B to Hakeem, I get frustrated because it's same thing with like Kid and Lanzo.

Like you can't compare anyone to kid and Hakeem when they're not as dominant on both ends as those guys were. Kid was immediately an awesome defensive player. You can compare the upside though. You can compare their upside though. On offense. I mean, like a best case scenario. But Embed will never be the two-way player Hakeem was. Hakeem was great defensively immediately. He came in and he was a destructive force on both ends.

And I just haven't seen that from Embed. I think he gets lost. I don't. How much of that is the style of play, though, today where Hakeem didn't need to go roam out on the perimeter and do everything out on the perimeter like he does it does on the interior. If Embeded had to just play interior defense like Hakeem did, perhaps things would be a little bit different for him there, but there's so many responsibilities that the big man has to take care of nowadays that it can be really, really hard for young guys to really pick up on everything they have to

do on that ends. Look, Hakeem and David Robinson, from the moment they got into the league, where A-list defensive players, Hakeem was his second year in Houston. He was 3.4 blocks in two steals a game. That guy was like a wrecking ball and it got better and better as it went along. I just haven't seen it from Embed. I think he's a rim protector, but would you say he's a, would you say he's been even dominant and stretches defensively this season from what you've seen? He's, he's had some stretches. Stretches, okay. But overall, overall hasn't been dominant. But I think considering his experience level, considering the fact that it's only a second season,

I think it's been impressive. I think he's got a hell of a long way to go on both ends of the floor, but that's what makes him such a special player. How old is he now? He is 23, I want to say? He turns 24 in March. 24 in March, yes. The thing that's tough with him is how much time he's missed.

Just an incredible amount of missed games, you know? You think like he played 26 games in three seasons, And now he's in a situation where he can't even really play seven or eight games in a row. And I just wonder, at some point, are you who you are? Is this going to be fixed? Is he eventually going to be somebody that you can rely on for seven months a year? Or is this just who you are? Are you somebody that you're going to miss some games?

And you're going to get to 60 to 65. I asked Danny Chow in the Ringer NBA show if you would bet his life, if he'd be able to, Bede would ever play more than 65 games. And if he did, Danny got $500,000. And if he didn't, he immediately died. And he took the bet, but he thought about it. Do you think there's any situation where he plays 66 games? Would you bet your life on this?

I wouldn't bet my life, but there's a price where I would bet my life. Okay. But it's not 500,000. There's always a number. All right. So it'd be seven figures for you to bet your life. All right, we covered all the under 500 teams. We're going to take this to a part two.

Don't forget about SeaGeek. BSMBA, $20 off, first timers on Seatheek. We're taking this to a part two. We're going to tackle the over 500 teams with KFC. Until then.