The Ringer NBA Show - Optimism for Completing the Season, the Jordan Documentary, Mailbag, and More | The Mismatch

Episode Date: March 31, 2020

We review comments by Mark Cuban and Adam Silver that make it seem like the NBA is still focused on finishing the 2019-20 season (3:52), before discussing the news that ESPN has decided to move up the release date of its much-anticipated 10-part Michael Jordan documentary (7:09). Then we open back up the Mismatch Mailbag to a whole new list of your questions (11:00). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Microsoft Teams. Hey, NBA show fans, we all know meetings. Struggling to pay attention, files seem impossible to find. Luckily, there's a solution for all the meeting-related issues that we constantly complain about. Welcome to the new slam dunk to work together, Microsoft Teams. Using Microsoft Teams is one play that's guaranteed to work every time. Chat with coworkers, so you're never out of the loop. Find all your files and even edit them in real time in one convenient place.

The greatest NBA teams have mastered the art of communication and organization. When you're ready to unleash the power of your team, open teams. Because meetings of the past are for rookies, right? Learn more about how to improve your work efficiency at Microsoft.com slash teams. That's Microsoft.com slash teams. To The Ringer NBA show, I'm Chris Vernon. Join the Me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Chammer, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Candiland.

Kevin. I'm in the zone, Verna. Oh, no. Oh, no. Sounds to me like someone might have watched White Men Can't Jump over the weekend. Finally, I did. It was great. You loved it. What took me so long? I have no idea. So, all right, let's get a quick review on a movie that came out over 20 years ago. I actually wrote a review that I'm going to put on letterbox because I've been reviewing movies every time I watch them and putting them on there. So this is my review that I've written up.

This is only a draft. So don't make fun of me. White Men Can't Jump Gets Labelled a great sports movie, but this is a great movie, period. Basketball might be played and the slow motion scenes are beautifully shot, but it's not even really about sports. It's really about the struggle of supporting a fight. family, the risks that often have to be taken and how sometimes when you win, you really lose.

And sometimes when you lose, you really win. I can't believe it took me 28 years since its release for me to actually watch this, but I'm glad I did, Chris. You loved Dwightman Gairjump. I did. And Wesley Snipes and Woody Harrelson, like, oh, my goodness, their chemistry was, like, LeBron Wade, like, at the peak of the hedels. It was awesome.

I love hearing that you watch it. I love hearing that you loved it. We do have a little bit of news just on the basketball front. There was more optimism that came out. You know, we haven't heard from a lot of voices within the NBA regarding when the season, you know, when they're thinking about the season could come back. We know that it's been reported that there's somewhat of a deadline. They want to make sure it's done by the end of August.

But the people we've heard from are Adam Silver, who continues to be, an optimistic voice when you hear from him about a conclusion for the season and that it's not a matter of if but when is their mindset towards this. Mark Cuban, the same thing. Again, we don't know what's going to go on with this COVID-19 and the coronavirus and whether the curve can be flattened and when the curve could be flattened. But we do know that there is optimism within the quarters of the NBA. And Mark Cuban was optimistic. And then Daryl, which was actually doing a Facebook chat. Oh, Facebook.

Yeah. Yeah, well, it was actually, I think it was, from what I gather it's like a documentary or something they did. They were chronicling the 20 plus game win streak that the Rockets had years ago. And Moray was doing like a Q&A. And then he talked about how they're already looking at preparing for the nuggets, because whether they go straight into the playoffs or they play an amount of games prior to, that it's very likely. that they would be facing Denver in the playoffs. And so I thought that was interesting, right? But it just seems like every time we hear anybody talk about it,

and I know they've been asked not to give, you know, deadlines or predict when the season would start again or anything. But every time they do speak, everybody speaks like it's not going to be a canceled season. It's a matter of when they are going to be able to conclude and then figuring out how they can do it. So at least, you know, again, you search for any kind of a voice that could make it sound like, you know, that they are going to finish a season. It does sound like they are going to whenever they can, you know, and whenever the doctor say it's okay, they will. Anytime there's good news, though, there's bad news because as Brian Windhorst reported this morning, that the Chinese government issued an order to delay the restart of the Chinese Basketball Association. and because of the fear of asymptomatic people carrying coronavirus and spreading it amongst players and other people, family, whoever it may be.

So that just happens today, according to Windhorst in the Chinese Basketball Association. And you think about what could happen here in the NBA. If things are similar here in the United States as they were in China or are in China, then it's very possible that we will see a situation in which the NBA, also needs the delay that restart because of asymptomatic people. So who knows?

The fact is that the NBA as many more resources it can build that bubble as they intend to possibly could build that bubble and that's what you're going to have to do with consistent testing of players, coaches,

referees, whoever it may be and regular taking temperatures and all that, it's not going to be easy to get games restarted. But it's their intentions. And I would bet on us seeing some type of basketball before the end of the year.

But who really knows? Right. Because the biggest disaster would be to start it back and then someone test positive and you got to shut it all down again. Yeah. I mean, if that were to happen, I mean, I wonder like if that player would have to just be like sent home for two or three weeks before coming back or something like that. You know, I mean.

Well, no, they'd shut the whole thing. They, no. Yeah. they did before, but like if you, if you catch it, could you theoretically just play and have that player be like DNP coronavirus? You know what I mean? No, I'm serious. I mean, if it's police that much, if it's police that much, maybe that's what you could end up doing. But look, there's a lot that would need to break right for this to ever work.

But we'll see. All right. And then the other news that has come out, which was very nice to see, was something that every NBA fan was looking forward to this Michael Jordan documentary, Andrew Marchand from the New York Post, reports last night that ABC and ESPN's highly anticipated 10-part Michael Jordan documentary, The Last Dance, has been moved up to April. And so as we sit here recording this today, it is the very end of March. So we've just got a couple of weeks. And as we have, you know, desperately wanted to be able to watch some type of sports and some kind, and that, this will be one of those communal events where everybody is going to be watching this that cares a great deal about basketball. And there's going to be a lot of people that don't care a great deal about basketball that are going to watch it simply because it is new programming that is coming out. But Sunday, April 19th is now the start date for that.

And so we'll have this 10-part documentary series on Jordan that's going to be going on. And then we, you know, the NFL draft is going on as planned. So we just got to make it a couple more weeks and there's going to be some great sports programming that's going to be going on, right? I'm so excited for that Jordan documentary. It's going to be dope, man. And like even before then, we do, we do have starting this Friday, according to Yahoo Sports is Chris Haynes, that the NBA is going to have a 16 player NBA 2K tournament. So for people who are gamers, that could be fun to watch. Seeing there's reported that Kevin Durant and Andre Drummond could be in that tournament.

That could be fun for people who love to play video games or are just so thirsty for NBA contents. So I look forward to that even, just to see how these players battle. One thing we did miss last week was Steve Balmer buying the forum in Los Angeles. So now he can build his own stadium and keep the Clippers in Los Angeles and do what he wants to do with building the stadium in Inglewood area. It's going to be great for that city, and it's great for Steve Balmer to

really put the money down and get this done so the clippers can separate from the Lakers, separate from Staples Center, and have their own home. I mean, Balmer, Balmer, Balmer, ever since he bought the team, it's been one of the best owners in sports, and then

this past week, donating $25 million for coronavirus relief efforts. Guys, awesome. You think, you know, there was thought that they were going to keep that as a concert venue. And it's got this incredible history there. I mean, it's rather unbelievable. The owner of the Clippers would then mow down, you know, this legendary venue that is associated with the Lakers.

Everybody thinks he's just going to replace that for him. I don't know. I mean, it's a historic building. I would be sort of surprised. And also, it's a good concert venue, man. Oh. It's a good, it's a really good concert venue. It's an older place, but that sort of adds to the aura being inside there, but the sound there is spectacular.

So maybe they will keep it as a concert venue, but who knows, what they say now could change five, ten years and now. And look, buildings fall, you know, fall all the time. You know, it's sad to say, but so often we see arenas around the world get rebuilt. And if that were to happen with the former, it would be no different than many other buildings we've seen across the world. That's for sure. All right, Bobby Wagner, our producer is here. He has pulled together the best of the mailbag. And thank you to all of our listeners from all over the world that sent in questions again,

some that we had not gotten to last week and then more that have been sent in over the course of the last, you know, three or four days. Bobby, we got some good ones today? We do. We always get some good ones. All right. This first one, now that Kevin has finally watched a movie that's 25 years old. Erim asks, which two current NBA players would you cast to play Wesley Snipes and Woody Harrison's roles in a white man can't jump remake?

All right. I'm going to let you answer this first, Kevin, because the movie is so fresh in your mind and those characters are so fresh in your mind. Obviously, look, finding the white guy is the role to play Billy Hoyle. The first one that came to, I'll let you answer first. well for wesley cites i was going to say jimmy butler and because i feel like jimmy butler probably has some acting prowess to him he has the trash talk i think jimmy butler's a natural choice um in that role and then replacing hooty harrelson that's difficult but you know what how about how about

nicola yokuch let's go with a big man no why it's his teammate tyler hero not only are they buddies. Oh, Butler's teammate. Ah. They've got this great chemistry anyway, between the two. they bust each other up on Instagram or whatnot all the time. And Harrow has got that, like, swag. Like, he is that kind of arrogant, swaggy guy. I mean, we actually, we just, we just took two guys from the frigging Miami Heat and made the movie again. That's good. That's really good. I think I was thinking like, you know, acting and sense of humor, but you're right, hero on Instagram does show that sense of humor. Who knows if he can act?

But this is just theoretical anyways. It makes sense to have those two, yeah. Well, because otherwise we're looking at like Delavadova, you know, hey, maybe our guy. Well, JJ Redick? No. How about this one? We already got him in L.A.

We could do Caruso. Because he looked, Caruso looks like the kind of guy that would show up at Venice. and they would think sucks. Well, LeBron is already acting. So LeBron could take on that role with Alex Caruso. I think we got something here, actually. Butler and Hero or LeBron and Caruso. Is LeBron not?

I think he's too good. You know, right? Well, I just think, you know, right, you want it to be believable, right? It's hard to believe LeBron playing streetball. I know. That's what I'm saying. So, look, Jimmy Butler, looks more normal than LeBron James.

You could feasibly go to a park and see a guy that is the stature of Jimmy Butler. It'd be odd, but you could. All right. And you would know he's awesome. You ain't, there ain't no park in, in the world you're going to and show up and a dude looks like LeBron James. You know what I mean? Well, I mean, how many people really even have LeBron's body type? No, I mean, like, they're all in the NFL.

Yeah, true. but even then six foot eight six foot nine it's i mean even then though there's not players that tall they're only miniature versions of lebron i think that i think the heat thing could work because they've already got the chemistry you know what i mean i think we got something here and you can see you could see jimmy butler being that bombastic type of guy and you could see uh you and you could see uh tyler hero being that kind of i'm awesome but i'm not i'm going to dress real goofy so that no one knows. You know what?

Tyler Hero is the kind of guy that could go to a park and trick people, right? And act like he's not good. And then just murder everybody. He is that kind of dude. To think our show is called The Mismatch when I throw a Butler and then screwed up the second one, but you come back with the perfect partner for the movie. Look at us. We just wrote the remake.

White Men Can't Jump 2. Oh my goodness. Somebody go remake it. All right, Bobby, what we got next? Griffin asks, who is one past NBA player you would want to plug into today's NBA besides Jordan? Because he says that's too easy. Oh, that's good. So someone you'd want to see now play from a different era.

Shack. I mean, I know we sort of have a version of Shaq with Yon to Senta-a-Cumbo, but seeing Shaq that we know the bruiser he was inside in today's league, I would be fascinated to see what it would be like to see a player like him get plugged into today's league. to see how teams would have to build to stop a guy like that to see what type of defenses would they use? I mean, would the Houston Rockets really be able to use PJ Tucker at the 5 if they're facing Shaquille O'Neal? I don't know, but I would love to be able to see what that matchup would look like with a modern day shack.

Yeah, that's a great one because you don't know how much he would change the game, right? I mean, teams, you know that teams look out for who is. is the best team. And so they say, all right, this is what we're going to have to deal with if we're going to get out of our conference. You know, we talked about this with, you know, if anything could change in terms of the style of play. And one of the guys I brought up was Embed. If he dominates and they could win the Eastern Conference and that they're the team to beat, then you know you're going to have to deal with that guy.

The same thing goes with maybe Janus, right? If he gets on a run, if they come back and finish this thing out and obviously they were great this year, that teams look at him and go, all right, how are we going to deal with him when we get to the playoffs? And basketball changes because of that. It certainly changed because of the Warriors. You knew you could not just be trading threes for twos. And so teams then started to get equipped with them in mind. So a great, great big man, I would actually probably choose somebody from even further back than a shack.

The big men are the easy ones because you'd love to see what a Wilts Chamberlain or a Bill Russell or some of the greatest players, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Some of the-Elijon. Yeah, some of these that are considered the greatest players of all the time. But I would pull somebody from way, way back, you know, that is considered one of the great, like a Jerry West. Somebody perimeter like that from way, way back and just see what that would look like. because a Bob Coozy. Yeah, even when you see, well, like, I don't know. He'd get a DNP.

I mean, he's, Bob Cousy's dribbling around with one hand in that. I mean, they show that, they show him dribbling out the clock and he's drivel around with one hand everywhere. And it's like, okay. You'd be watching them on the bench. This probably, yeah, this probably doesn't translate. But somebody that could shoot the hell out of the ball, like a Jerry West.

Or even a, you know, look, I told you, I was watching that old Celtics Lakers thing, a week ago. And it was like, okay, you see Bird and there was like, there's just like a few three point tries. And I know he's got that. How about even like a Danny Age? Danny Angel is a great shooter for his time when he was taking like four or five three-pointers a game.

And that was a lot at that time in the 80s. Even somebody like him would be interesting to see in today's league. Would he be a guy, you know, as a near 40% three-point shooter that's taking 10, 11-3s a game? I don't know. Could be. I got a guy. I got a guy for us.

Who do you get, Bobby? How about in that same vein? What about Pistol Pete? What if we had a second step in the league? Oh, unbelievable. I would love to see it. Especially with the game as wide open as it is now, that would be fantastic.

But yeah, you're right about to say the Aang's thing, right? Think about this. Like, JJ Redick, who's still good and averaged like 17 points a game last year for the Sixers and was extremely valuable. And a starting player on an awesome team. He's 15 years in his career. and he's still so valuable and can be a starter on an outstanding team.

And look how deep he is into his career, you know, is a angel like that, right? Where it's just a different deal now. But yeah, like obviously the guys I grew up with like these 90s basketball players, there's a ton of them. I'd love to see how it all translates now. Because I've wondered a lot. You know, I see so many times. when we're watching the NBA now, and it's like, if you can't shoot the ball, you've been

relegated to being much less useful than you ever have been in the NBA's history. So what happens with the Ben Wallace's of the world, which dominated, you know, a league defensively, but was not an offensive player or a Dennis Rodman who wasn't, you know, are they still amazing role players and that still all works? the same way. Or are they now guys that, you know, they get played off the floor because you don't guard them. And everybody's going, you know, four or five out. I don't know.

I really don't. So the 90s guys are always good. But I would go back farther because we always wonder how the older generation would translate to the new generation. Like, is Will Chamberlain killing everybody if we throw them in today's NBA? I don't know. So those are the questions I would love to see answered, you know, somebody from way back when, because it's so hard to compare eras anyway. Chris, before we continue, I have to let the listeners know that today's mismatch is brought to you by Roe.

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What's next? All right, Thomas asks, what is the biggest market inefficiency in today's NBA? What tangible pieces of building and winning a championship do you think are undervalued? Player personality assessment,

I think that's sort of the challenge in building any team of people, like no matter what type of organization you have, matter what type of industry it is, you always want to put together the personalities that complement and enhance each other. And with NBA, there's multiple ways in which they assess personality, whether it's through testing or through intel, through interviews with the players, but finding out what makes a player tick will allow a team to best understand how to coach that player, you know, what type of feedback they respond to best, what type of learning they respond to

best and also allows a team to best figure out the way they can how that player is going to respond to this new lifestyle in the NBA. Are they going to continue to have that edge and continue working harder to maximize who they are? Or will they develop a sense of complacency? So, developing and finding a deeper understanding of player personality is really the next frontier and is currently what so many teams are trying to explore to have a better idea of how to bring in the right players through the draft. And that's going to, I think to me, that that's what's going to be next post as analytics get deeper and deeper with players and statistics.

It's going to, it's going to get even deeper with player personality. I would say like fierceness, like guys that are toughness, those guys that are, I don't want to mess with that guy. And I do think that these guys, these type of guys still matter and teams that are great teams usually have these kind of guys. I'm talking about the guys that I could throw into a, you know, a Knicks Pacers game from the 90s. They'd be okay.

Everybody's so nice. Everybody's so friendly. But I do think when it, when it matters most that when it comes playoff time, the guy that'll get in the mix and grab the huge rebound, like, you know, like when we, we saw at the end of games where, you know, the Marcus Smart types, you know, and because there aren't guys out there that can really team up as much, the high level of skill that most coaches demand a player has to be put out on the court. I would say toughness or like the intimidation factor that if you could find the guys that are those like when the going gets tough,

they will do anything it takes to win a game. I think that we look around and even if I said like I think even five years ago, you could make a list of 10 guys. that you would say I would not want to mess with that guy. And now I don't know how many you would get to, honestly, with the whole, I wouldn't want to mess with that guy. So the guys that you just would not want to mess around with, I think that those guys are now few and far between, right? Were you that type of player, Chris?

I'd say I was, I am the kind that it would take a lot to make me angry, but when I got angry, I snapped. You ever got a fight on the court? Oh, God. Yeah, you did? Yes. Wow. You threw hands.

Yes. Kevin, I've been in, I bet I bet I've been in, I don't know, 30 plus. What? 30 plus fights? Well, from the time I was 12 all the way through high school and then a little bit after college, I played hockey. Okay. So, I mean, that's like, that's not, we would fight for fun.

You know what I mean? Like, what we called helmet and gloves? Where you just get in a locker room? And I mean, God, I swear to God, all these, all these coaches I have would be in jail now for allowing this to happen. Kids are just getting, kids are getting knocked out all the time. We all probably got a bunch of concussions. You know what I mean? But like, back then, back then it was getting your bell wrong.

That's all you're on. Yeah, yeah. I got whiplashed. Yeah. Well, and I, now you got to remember. So I, just a couple things about me. I, when I moved, when I was eight years old, I moved into a neighborhood where I would say there were, in the widespread neighborhood, it was all like, you know, it was a real neighborhood, like where a drive-in and a drive-out, a neighborhood. And then all the houses were in the neighborhood.

And I would say there was probably 30 to 50 kids within three to four years of me. So we played something every day, every day. There was a game going on. You could play, you know, you could play street hockey or you could play baseball or we play football or we play basketball. So, I mean, kids were fighting with each other all the time, all the time. Like you didn't play without somebody getting into it. to it over something.

And so, and I'm not talking about like knock down dragouts. I would say once I got to be 18, 17, 18, probably not many times after that. Like maybe like once or twice. I probably, but as a kid, people were, kids were fighting all the time, all the time, all the time. Like, do you know, because you were all on the bus together and then you're coming home and you're around each other all time. And then everybody's playing. every single day together.

And so especially in high school, when everybody starts to get like testosterone or whatnot, it was, I mean, these aren't like great fights. I mean, I would say the worst I've been hurt was like, I got my eye broken.

I got my, like, you know, right above your eye. Goodness. Yeah, yeah. That was at school. Is that like the orbital bone or something? No, yeah.

That was at school. It was the most embarrassing thing ever. Because when your eye, not the, it didn't break. but like that skin that's on your eyebrow, if it breaks, you bleed out like, I mean, worse than you've ever bled in your life. And I, um, I had, I had a friggin no fear shirt on.

You remember no fear shirts? Are you too young for that? I don't remember. They were a big company. Everybody had like these no fear shirts. And I had a frigging no fear shirt on just covered in blood. It was embarrassing as hell. Yeah.

This kid hit me. Yeah, kid punched me. He was. Because what happened was he, he was sticking me with what happened was. Yeah. You know, actually, it was in a math class. He was a school bully anyway. But he was poking me with one of those like compasses.

You know, like the thing with the needle on the end? A compass? Yeah. And he was like poking me with it. That's a weird weapon. And I finally got up and I pushed him and then he just punched me right in my damn eye. Wow. The fight was over, by the way.

I've never, I've never been in a fight. I've been in like almost fights like two I've been in like two or three almost fights and I've been the one to be like dude stop let's chill out just relax I don't know I've always I've always been pretty chill I've never been in a fight I've never thrown a punch in another human being I got I got picked on a lot so that right like I mean that was I mean that's just par for the course if yeah I mean I people people picked on me in high school especially my freshman and sophomore year and and I talk about a lot of shit, you know what I mean? Like, if you talk a lot of shit, you better be able to defend yourself. I kept my shit talking to Xbox Live. I guess I was a keyboard. I was a keyboard warrior. I still am, really.

But I'd rather keep my fights and my arguments virtual, you know, with a headset on and argue with people online than confrontation in person. I mean, I think it's much healthier that way. I agree with you. It's much out here. No, I agree with you. I agree with you. I haven't done any, I haven't been, it's been years.

Oh, I say that. My buddies are going to call me out. It's probably like seven, eight years ago. I drug a guy out of a bar for like, wow. He was, he was, he was, he was out of pocket. Interesting. But that was it. All right.

What you got, Bobby? I like how we just found out that Chris was in like fight club for 25 years. It was like a question. about NBA inefficiency. It was a long time ago. I'm talking about dragging guys out of the bar. I love it. Let me explain that real quick.

We threw, we, every, there's a lot of media members that saw this. The NCAA tournament, Elite 8 was here in Memphis. And me and my buddy threw a big thing at one of the local bars for everybody, you know, all the media members are in town. We're all going to go to this bar. We rent out this place. And one of the guys came in there, a guy I'm friends with. mega hammered.

He was ruining the night for everybody, like literally ruining it. He was standing in front of the TV. It was a disaster. And so he said, and I told him very nicely, you know, you're ruining this for everybody.

Stop, man. And he got, he jumped up in my face. He's like, you're getting aggressive with me, bro. And I was like,

come here. And I just grabbed my bag of his neck and I drug him outside. Wow. Now, I hope there's, hope there's a Summerling. I want to witness some action. No,

it was embarrassing because there's a lot of people that saw it. Still to this day, they're like, if I see like Pat 40, he brings it up to me. He's like, you got in any, you got any fights?

Chris the bouncer Vernon. Yeah, I know. I was just real mad because I thought the guy was like embarrassing us, right, This is the kind of people we have. People that will just ruin your night and act all crazy. Learning something new about Chris Vernon.

I love it. All right. You guys ready for a few more? A lot of people ask specific questions about their team. So why don't we run through a few of these from fans of their teams? I guess people are really starting to yearn for their basketball teams back. So Aaron asks, I was wondering why the magic don't get much of a mention on your show and other shows in general.

Do you think most people consider them irrelevant? And if so, why? Oh, that's a good question. because I actually talked to my producer and buddies around here. When they, as the last game I saw was the magic. And we did a trivia contest on my show of guessing who their starting five was the night before. And it was,

did you get it? No, it was a disaster. You should have seen the guys they had started. I promise you, you would not know. Were they players like on, on a different team?

Hold on. I am going to, no, I'm going to go to, let me go back to their schedule. Okay. So their last game they, they played was at Memphis.

Okay, so the night before they had played at the Rockets. Now, I'm not doing this to crap on the magic and I'm not doing this. I'm just doing this as an exercise. And I won't even embarrass you with this, Kevin, because you would- This exercise is crapping on the magic. No, I would just, all right, you, I would people be able to get this? I got Markell Fultz, I got Vuch, and I got Gordon. I would not have told.

Those are the three easy ones. And I would not have been able to tell you who the two others. Because they change their starting lineup, obviously. They're bringing guys off the bench now. They're bringing Augustine, Carter Williams, Terrance, Ross. Those guys are coming off the bench for them. And Mo Bamba. The other guys that started were James Ennis and Wesleya Windu.

Yeah, I would not have gotten those. I wouldn't have got it. I mean, okay, here's the thing. If you don't have a megastar player and you aren't on TV, so I don't see you virally, and I don't see you on TV unless I'm seeking you out, it is very hard to be relevant. And I'm telling you this from someone who's covered a team for a long, long time, and all of a sudden, the team has gotten infinitely more attention than it has ever gotten simply because of John Morant.

The magic don't have that guy. They don't have somebody that people seek out. They don't have somebody that is regularly on viral videos, especially when you've had a struggling Aaron Gordon season. He would be your highlight real guy, but he hadn't done much of anything this year. And so people, that's what's hard. If you're in a smaller market and you're not on TV a lot

and you don't have a star player, yes, it is very, very difficult to get relevant And even with Markell Fultz, it's like great, like nice story that he's having, you know, his career best season in Orlando, but he's still posting only an Evan Turner style stat line. Right. You know, 12 points, three rebounds, five assists, 25% from three. I mean, like, great. It's an improvement. But it's still not a guy that you're really seeking out. And with Orlando, magic, you know, to get back to Aaron's original question, I think people do overlook them for all the reasons that you.

you stated, but also they've had guys like a Jonathan Isaac who have made progress, but they got hurt. They dropped out. Right. And even Isaac himself still falls into the category that you're mentioning, Chris, where he's still not like that player that you're seeking out to watch unless you love defense. Like, you just can't get enough switchable defenders. You've got to have that in your life. You've got to have a guy that's been guards and bigs. I mean, then like you're not seeking out Jonathan Isaac. And look, man, like it's okay. Like you said, Chris, you've covered her team

like that for many, many years now. And for Orlando, there are still positive things happening there. And it's unfortunate people aren't watching it and are talking about it all the time. But it's still a good thing that you're seeing Markle Foltz get better. It's great that you're seeing Isaac become one of the best defenders

in basketball while making progress on offense. It's great to see Mo Bamba making some progress as a three-point shooter, getting better playing with better effort on the defensive end of the floor, these are all good, positive things that you want to see. And just because people aren't talking about it, it's okay, because eventually they will.

And you're going to be one of those people as a hardcore fan that was there and watching that develop before anybody else is really paying attention. So be happy about that, not disappointed. Yeah, the only way when you're 29 and 35 that people are going to seek you out is if you have a star rookie or a all-star level player. Other than that, you know what I mean? Like you've got Trey Young. So people, a lot of people are much more aware of the Atlanta Hawks than they are the Orlando Magic.

Simply because they've gone out of their way to find Trey Young and to watch Trey Young. The same thing goes with, so it's the difference between, so the records are virtually the same between them and the Pelicans. But we've seen the pelicans on TV 500,000 times. and Zion's only played 10 or whatever, 20 games. 19 to be to be exact. Yeah, so I mean, that's the thing. That's how, you know, that's the difference in, unless you are doing something incredible,

like if you are the magic and you're, you know, 40 and 20. And then we're like, wait, what the hell's going on there? People will start paying attention to you, but it's typically star players or it's you doing something, that nobody expected you to do. What do we get next, Bobby? Next up we got Sam. He says, how about 30 seconds of optimism for a Wizards fan?

I'm aware of all the reasons we're a shit show, but how about a reason why Beale might say or Wall might get healthy? Even Wizards fans could use a little optimism these days. Can I set a literal timer for 30 seconds? Sure. I'm going to do that. I have I pulled up a timer, a stopwatch on Google. I'm going to do it.

Okay. Three, two, one. Look, man, Bradley Bale has developed into a 30 point per game score, and he's a legit all-star even though he didn't get named, and that's still unforgivable. But what's happened behind closed doors, you got Bradley Beale and John Wall working with each other. Wall has helped Beal become a better on-ball presence.

Beal can help Wall become a better off-ball presence. More cutting, more spot-up shooting. These guys, when they're back together, will be one of the best back courts in basketball. Why wouldn't they want to stay together with Bert Tans and guys like that by their side? 30 seconds up. All right. I'm going to tell you this and I'll put my stopwatch on

but I'm going to tell you that I'm going to give you the optimism you need as a wizard's fan three, two, one. They fired Ernie Grunfeld. It took 2.8 seconds. That's pretty good actually. Pretty good.

And Tommy Shepard is a guy with highly respected across the league. Players really love him. And he's running the shift there now in Washington. And look, you know, we'll see how guys like Rui Hachymour develop. We'll see if Bertons becomes a guy who stays in Washington, which he likely will. And we'll see how John Wall looks when he actually gets back from a pretty major injury. But I think you look at Washington right now, you think about the type of player that they could take in this year's draft, which is littered with good roleplay.

they could soon be building something that looks pretty good with two star players and Wall and Beal. So right now things are tough, but I think there's actually quite a lot to be optimistic about right now. All right. I only took 2.8 seconds. I mean, I'm just giving them a little bit more to feel good about, but your 2.8 seconds was right.

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Obie Toppin will still be on the board in all likelihood. There may be better pedigree guys there, but how could they pass him up? He's perfect to step into a win now team. So what do you think, Obie Topin on the Warriors? Is that a championship team? I think with Obie Toppin, you look at him on the offensive end of the floor and you're drafting what could be like an Amare Stademeyer type of player with his bounce, with his ability to shoot from the perimeter. Amari was more of a mid-range shooter, but in today's league, he would be like a top and will be as a good three-point shooter at the big man position. The question is, with Golden State, would they feel confident that they can turn him into a competent enough of a defender to survive next to,

in the playoff setting. I don't know because right now you look at him in college. He's horrific on the defensive end of the floor. He has no idea how to defend picking roles. He plays with such a high center of gravity that's hard for him to move laterally and stay with quicker players. So what happens when you put him in a playoff situation

and he needs to stop James Harden or he needs to start, stop Russell Westbrook or Damien Lillard and so on? That's a scary thought. But if your goal in state or another team and you feel like Topin has the length and verticality do at least be a shoplocker with time, then maybe you take him and he can be your weak defender,

but he's not bad enough that he's getting picked on. But I personally think for Golden State, I'd want to look for more of a wing type of player, regardless of where their pick lands. But Topin does make some sense as another option for sure. I have made my thoughts abundantly clear about Wiseman many times, the kid from Memphis. I think Wiseman would be an absolute perfect fit with them.

He would be the guy. If I'm going to say he runs the floor like a deer and he'll do all that extra stuff. And you've got, you've got scoring and you've got shooting. And if you had that kid and you had his defensive presence down low and he can still finish on the break. And he's a really good high character kid. Wiseman could be, I've thought about that a lot. Like, oh my God, they might end up getting the number one pick. And if they do, I could see him being a perfect fit there.

Do you see as something, you've been around, you know, that college and wise man, you've heard more about him than many other people have. Do you feel like some of the knocks on him and the concerns people have about him have been a bit overblown? Because I've seen some people have Wiseman ranked outside their top five or even outside their top 10. Why is that a bit much in your view of him as a player? I'm telling you this. If that kid would have played college basketball this year, because I watched a lot of college basketball the last month before it obviously got postponed,

canceled, whatever, he would have dominated college basketball, and it would be a different, it would be a different story completely. With the way he runs the court, there's nobody that could have dealt with him. Nobody. Nobody. If he would have gotten the games under his belt, I don't think that this would have been much of a question. He would have blocked a million shots, grabbed a million rebounds,

and finished a million alley-oops. He is like a, he's perfect for modern day. If you, if you need somebody 7-1 that could fly up and down the court, and I mean, I'm not telling you he's going to be,

you know, check or change the game, but could you be a super Capella? And people love Clint Capella now. Like, he's just, he's got the stuff that could, as long as you're not counting on him to be,

you know, he ain't going to be Joel Embed. He's not going to be, he's not that, right? He's not this transcendent talent. But I don't think that this draft is filled with a lot of obvious, you know, I could see that guy becoming a Hall of Fame level player one day. Or I could see this, you know, the way people thought that that could be true of Embed or Ben Simmons or Carl Towns or Anthony Davis or whatever.

He's not that. But in terms of like the type of role play. to elite level center who can play in this type of game now that can really flap and down the court and switch and block some shots. And I think I think the kid fits the bill. Yeah, especially in this draft. Like Kevin, I don't know. I know you've probably started to deep dive more into it now.

It's hard to find. It's hard to find guys that you fall in love with in this one. It really is. You know, I think we've hit on this a couple times recently. This year's draft, as you just said, doesn't have that clear superstar talent. The guy that you feel confident is going to be one of the real cornerstones of your franchise. But it does have a lot of guys that, you know, in my view, that are going to be good role players. I think there's a lot of talent in this year's draft class that are going to be able to fit into a team and help, you know, help a roster, help a team build around their stars.

Like I think, I think, let's say if goal and say it were to draft a, a Devin Vassal, the wing out of Florida State who we hit earlier in their week, or even like a Josh Green from Arizona and Isaac O'Coro from Arbor. And one of those types of wings, that guy can play immediately and help out Golden State. Those guys can help out a number of different teams across the league. There's those guys in this year's draft class. And that's why for me, when I think about Golden State, I would rather, and look, a lot depends on where they pick land.

but I would rather, if it were possible, to trade down and take a guy in that six to 12 range, then spend $10 million on James Wiseman annually, over $10 million annually on Wiseman with the first pick, when I would probably rather try to get a discount big man in the $5 to $8 million range off a free agency or in a trade, and then draft a wing towards the middle of the lottery. That would be my goal. and like here's the thing though. Here's the thing about this year's draft though. You might not be able to trade down

because other teams are thinking the same damn thing. Well, and I've always, and I've kind of thought about this in fairness from the Wiseman perspective. We always talk about opportunity and fit. There'll be no greater place to develop. Like if you're taking that kid very high, if you're taking that kid very high in the draft,

like he ain't got to be your guy, right? If he goes to a crap team and he's expected to be the franchise changer and I think it's a tough spot, you know, to be dependent upon him to be a big time offensive force immediately. And if he's going out and losing 70 games, like they should be good. And so him being able to develop in that where, you know, that team's going to be Curry and Clay and Draymond. That would just be ideal. Absolutely ideal.

It's ideal in the sense that Wiseman, one of his big weaknesses now, his shot selection, he's turnover prone, slow to make decisions on the court. If you're able to remove that from him right now and make it so he has to make quick and easy decisions as more of a rim runner, like that Javille McGee that you type saw with Golden State, then maybe that can work in the short term.

Yeah, because I could, Kevin, I could see him. If he got drafted to a team that lost 55, 65 games, you could mess it up. You can mess it up with him. But if he played for like, if he could be as lucky enough to play for a good team, you know, that's well coached right off the bat and not has a lot of chaos. Like, Wiseman goes to the Knicks, it's a problem.

It just is. Now maybe they'll be able to put together a different roster and they'll be, you know, and now we'll see what Leon Rose and Worldwide West can pull together there. But I do think he is the type of kid that would really be, especially with missing a year of college basketball, he'd really be set up by not being expected to be the man. I don't know if he's equipped for that, you know, right off the bat. And, you know, there's a lot of responsibility comes with being very high drafted in most cases.

And you're usually going to a crap team. There's is such a, I envy any of the rookies that are going to be able to get drafted by Golden State because this is just such a very strange year where that would be an opportunity for them. What else we got, Bobby? what a pros pro segue because I'm going to go to the last team specific question that we got here and it's Spencer who asks

is there a foreseeable future in the next three years in which Leon Rose turns the Knicks into a respectable franchise. Yes, I agree. It's a great market. This guy has been recruiting players

for the last 30 years as has Worldwide West. These guys, they get players, man. They get players. They have been involved with kids going to different schools over the years all the way. I mean, like, they're good at what they do. They have assets to trade, too.

They have their own first round draft picks. They have the two first from Dallas. They have young players, you know, they have assets as well. And depending on what the cap looks like moving forward. And who knows with everything happening now. But they should and could have money to spend it for agencies. as well. Yeah, you got R.J. Bairdon and a couple other guys, whoever you draft and you get a couple other guys who might want to build around. Those guys are not, and they're not dead players,

right, where you can't move them. You know, I know they signed all these power forwards and everything else, but I mean, you could still get something for several guys on the Knicks roster. You could get returned, putting them in a deal, especially, you know, to fill up if you made a deal with a, with the draft pick and then one of those contracts along with something. And then obviously you hope to get within the next three years, the free agency. And if you're well coached and you're on the, you know, you build the new culture there, may be very difficult with James Dolan. But it has, it's been a long, long time.

But, you know, once upon a time, Glenn Granwald and those guys built a 50-something win team there. And so you've got a lot of advantages in New York if you're not mismanaged. I mean, hell, if they still had poor Zingis, if they had to F that up, if they still have Porzingis, the future would be bright right now. I mean, they had an amazing player. And that one, obviously, that whole situation went to hell. So, yes, it's possible. You've got picks.

You've got new management. And you've got guys that I think if you were banking on guys to be able to recruit somebody to come play in New York, you know, that they built trust. amongst a lot of NBA players over the years, and they know a lot of NBA players. I could see it. As long as James Dolan, you know, stands out of the way,

they might have a chance. All right, let's do a few fun ones here at the end. Chuck asks, which podcasts do you enjoy that aren't your own? I like how Chuck posits the idea that you guys just would answer the mismatch if he asked which podcast.

Yeah, right. Like, yeah, I like ours. Actually, it's the only one I listen to. All right, so I will tell you, this is interesting because I am a, I don't know if you are or not, Kevin, And I'm a massive podcast guy. Shout out to Dysect.

I love the Dysect podcast. And he was nice enough last night. Shout us out as his favorite NBA podcast. And so mutual fans, I love the work he does. I listen to all Bill's episodes. I listen to Zach. I listen to Woge. So the NBA ones, I listen to him.

Skeets and those guys, I'll listen to them. NFL show. I like all the draft ones, like the NFL draft ones. So the one they've got with Kuiper and McShay and Chris Sproul. I listen to that. I listen to all the, I listen to cereal.

I listened to those Jeffrey Epstein ones that came out when that whole story was going on. Stanford, Steve, and the Bear. I'm scrolling through these. Dr. Death, I listen to. I listen to podcasts all the time. I do. I listen to them in my car.

Rissillo. I recently listened to a podcast for the first time that's a very popular podcast, Reply All. Okay. And it was the episode called The Case of the Missing Hit. That's like the most viral podcast episode of all time. I cannot go five minutes without hearing someone talk about it. It's a great episode though.

Yeah. It's great. All right. I'm going to write this down. I don't know. I mean, it is. I know. Why did that go so viral for some reason?

I mean, it's all right there hasn't been great podcast episodes before Bobby. Yeah. Shout out to our new co-workers over there at Kimlet. That's sort of escape me for a moment. Yeah, I almost forgot and reply all those gimlet. I do. So, yeah, saying that I listened to all the ones from the ringer.

I listen to that Spotify special one they did on the rapper, Takashi 6-9, that Angie Martinez did. That was mega fascinating. I listen to that. So, I mean, I'm a bad person to ask this because I listen to a podcast all the time. I think I shouted out enough that I listened to. Oh, I love Gladwells. I listened to all those seasons.

Revisionist history. Do you listen to any interview shows like Mark Marin, Joe Rogan, like those popular interview style shows? If they've got somebody that I like. So I would tell you, I've got, I've got Rogan on here. I've got that guy that does the business one, Tim Ferriss. I've listened to some of his. I've got on here. The Michael Lewis one that he put out against the rules, or against the rules, he put out.

Obviously, Cousin Sal and those guys. I mean, I'm scrolling through. I got a thousand on here, so it's ridiculous. Gambling podcast, I listen to those. I don't know. I mean, I was trying to find one that's not like sports or anything related. The music ones, you know, like I just said, that Takashi one I'll listen to or something with a new season. I'm constant.

And I've got a ton of the ringer ones on here. We got a bunch of good ones. I'm not surprised it sold for a billion dollars. Song Exploder. Song Exploder is a really good. music one. Oh, Conan O'Brien's is funny. I listen to that. Conan O'Brien needs a friend and he gets great guests. Chris, you ever listen to American Fiasco? No, uh-uh. It was a short season WNYC thing that the co-host of Men and Blazers, which is a soccer podcast. He teamed up with them and they

talked about the 94 World Cup, the U.S. men's team and how it was just a total disaster called American Fiasco. That would be one of my recommendations. And my other recommendation would be if you're looking for something that's not sports related this podcast called 99% Invisible. It's probably one of the only podcasts that I've ever listened to that's actually changed the way that I see the world around me. So big shout out to them. What's it called?

99% invisible. I'll look it up. But Lord knows, I mean, I rattled off like a thousand of them. I have listened to, there's a bunch of them over the years. And I pretty well download something new every day. and I'm subscribed to a ton of stuff. Like, if there's something going on, I'll find out podcasts that are talking about it,

and I'll go look those up so I can try to learn about it or some kind of news story that's come out. All right. Next up, Matthew wants to know. So, Chris, you mentioned this up top, the MJ doc. Matthew wants to know what you're most excited for about it. Oh, to see the behind the scenes. No question. The fly on the wall stuff.

And if we truly, you know, I don't know. I haven't read a lot about this in what level of involvement he had. I'd imagine if you're going to get him to agree to it. You know, like sometimes these guys, they have like oversight in it. And so how much are we going to get into the stuff that's not just lionizing him and ultra positive? That's the thing that I'm interested the most. Is this a full character reveal of everything? thing with the good and the bad or is this just hey look people have forgotten how amazing he is

yeah he was kind of tough on teammates sometimes but you know what i mean do we get it all do we get the whole story about him because if you're doing 10 parts it ain't just all basketball and so how much of the real michael jordan and that real story do we get how many dimensions is it put on him because even if you go and look like old sit downs he's always doing it with his buddy, Amad Rashad, right? So we don't have a lot of like, you know, hard hitting interview questions that have been asked of him and, you know, I typically try to stay away from anything negative

regarding Jordan or any of our favorite former athletes. So that's the thing. That's the thing. Do we get the other side of what he would, do we walk away from it knowing what he truly like outside of being an intense competitor who could be hard on teammates. I'm with you 100% on all that. And I'm looking forward to talking about it with you. I think this should be something we talk about every Tuesday on the show after it airs on Sundays.

Oh, there's no way around it. I mean, I'm looking forward to that. Last one. Make it good, Bobby. All right. Let's do last one. Mike wants to know, this is a show specific one. So it'll be a good one to end on. Mike wants to know Chris has rat team and good grief and Kevin has blow it up and don't take LeBron James for granted. What is the mismatches catchphrase as an entire show?

Maybe we should ask for submissions. What do you guys think? I know. Yeah. Yeah. What do you guys think? I mean, for the listeners, I'm not sure. Do we have one, Chris?

No. I mean, I guess we have things that we say often. Yeah. But in terms of what we, uh, good grief. Yeah, if there's like a catchphrase. Rap team. Maybe like your thing, right? What's the,

oh God, what do you say when you're so excited about something? Jacked and pumped. There you go. No, no, no, pumped and jacked. I'm pumped and jacked. Yeah, I guess that, there you go. I'm pumped and jack for this Jordan doc.

I am. I am. Usually, usually I say that like in tweets. I don't think I've ever said it on the show. Yeah, you have? I don't know. Usually that comes out of my fingertips. I'll give you one that you say, this one I know that I've like super irritated you.

You'll, you, you use dead ass. Dead ass. I'm dead ass. I'm dead ass. I'm dead ass. You know what I mean?

Like I'll be flippant about something serious, you said. And you say, I'm dead. So there's our phrase. I'm dead ass. Yeah. You know.

I saw some people were tweeting about that a couple of weeks ago. And I remember there's a clip. I'm going to send this to you, Bobby. I wonder if we can plug it in here. There's a clip of me interviewing Joe Al-Lambi during the 16-17 season. And I used dead ass.

And he says it back to me. He's like, he's like dead ass. And it's funny. So, yeah. You mentioned the other day that you want to be a point guard by the end of your career. And I know you're dead-ass serious about that. But I have to ask anyway,

are you serious about wanting to be point card by the end of your career. Yeah, dead ass. I'm really serious. You know, I think. So there's your phrase. That's when you know I've made Kevin mad. That's your trigger.

That's like, you know what I mean? We ain't like we're playing around that it's all lighthearted. But the second he goes to dead ass, I know I'm under his skin. I don't know about that. I've been using dead ass serious since I was in junior high. That's nothing new for me. I've used that since I was like 11, 12, 13 years old. And it's always when you're irritated.

No. Not always dead ass serious. When you've been pressed about something. That's when you'll let me know. Oh, no. This is not the normal argument, Chris. I'm dead ass. Look, I'm under your skin right now.

I'm dead ass serious. I know. So when I say dead ass. serious. It doesn't mean that I'm getting irritated right now. He's getting irritated with me. All right. Thanks as always for you can continue to.

I might get a 1-0 record if we continue this conversation. There you go. Oh, you want to get another fight. Or your first career fight. Yeah. Your first career fight. I've been training for this. Maybe we could hook you up with like Logan Paul.

He's always looking for somebody to fight, right? That would be fun. Keep continued, continue to send in your mailbag questions while the NBA is on hiatus. Giving that email address again. NBA Mailbag at gmail.com. So send those questions in if you've listened to the episode and you've thought, hey, I want to ask a question that I think is a good one. Send that in.

We'll review them and hopefully you'll make another episode very soon. We will be back on Friday. Bobby Wagner, thanks as always for producing the show. Kevin, I'll talk to you on Friday. Looking forward to Chris. Have a great week, everybody. Thanks to everybody for listening to another episode of The Mismatch. Stay inside and stay safe.

And the sooner we can get this all over with, the better. Go give us a rating and review on iTunes. Five stars, five stars really helps. And we will talk to you on Friday.