The Ringer NBA Show - Paolo Banchero and Coaching Young Players. Plus, Do We Believe Their Raps? | Real Ones

Episode Date: January 9, 2023

Logan and Raja discuss how coaching tactics are approached for younger teams and the importance of a strong relationship between the coaching staff and the rookies (5:00). Next, Raja explains why having a veteran in the locker room for a young team is invaluable (16:00). Later, the guys introduce a new segment called "Do We Believe Their Raps?" where they debate which of the league’s top teams are legit and which ones aren’t (32:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's a new year and I have a new podcast here at the Ringer, Offguard, hosted by me and my guide, Pasha Higigi. Austin and I go way back and talk so much hoop already that we figure it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on all of these conversations. Every week, Pasha and I will hit on the biggest stories happening in the league.

And get Austin's perspective of someone currently hooping in the NBA. Tap into Offguard every Friday on the Ringer NBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. What's popping? Logan Murdoch here, Rajabell. Fresh from San Antonio was back, baby. How you been, dog? Give us the rundown. How was it? What was San Antonio?

Like, how's our little homie doing? How's the real one nephew? How's he doing? All right. What's going on? First and foremost, let me just say that San Antonio and the Riverwalk in general, I never fully appreciated it when I was there as a player because I was there under different circumstances. You know, and as you're cruising the town, there's a slight bit of hospital. hostility towards you as a, you know what? Like, it's just a different vibe where you're an opposing player. Especially you as a son.

Yeah, right. You're there for a playoff series. Like the people were always great, but I never could really just soak it in and just vibe. Riverwalk was really nice, man. My son and I enjoyed that. We enjoyed our couple days there hanging out. The actual event was good. Like, like Dia did well.

He, according to a few people that I got feedback from, looked very good. The experience was dope. The All-American game was really cool because, he had two teammates and a head coach participating. His one teammate, Brandon, and has caught the first touchdown in the game. He's going to Ohio State. And his other teammate, Mark Fletcher, called like an 80-yard scene pass. He's going to Miami.

So that was really cool. We had a good father-son, quick little weekend. And he did his thing, which is always really cool for me to sit in the stands and watch. That's what's up, man. Wait, so I always thought, so this is the Army All-American game, I'm assuming, right? No, this was the All-American game. There's so many. There's like, there's the Under Armour.

There's the All-American Bowl on it. NBC, I guess, which this one was. And then there's the Army, which he was going to go to as well. But his team was playing for a state championship, so we couldn't make it to that one. Okay. So for this particular one, they had the game. And then I'm assuming, because just put everybody, all the real ones in the chat, Raja had sent us, as he does, we know that he's in a bag or he's on the road or something

when he just sends us a video without context, right? Yeah. And he sent us a video of D.E. just running a 40 like yo what's up so did he get to throw did he get to because this is this is the this is the there's an all-American game and i guess an all-american camp to go with this too is that what is that the yeah so so the seniors playing the all-american bowl and these were i mean these were pretty pretty accomplished high school football players they were going to any of your favorite bcs championship level teams they had a bunch of kids announced that they were going to like allberr or

georgia like during the game it was really cool but the day before that for the underclassmen they have a combine where they'll go through all their testing with Zybeck and then they will get on the field and do position drills right so they broke down like if you're at elite 11 and do some position drills and stuff like that and then they get together with the Y receivers running back dbs and linebackers and they get after it they do one-on-ones you know routes on air i mean it's you know you can't see anybody's real decision making against a cover three because there's no but but you know you see who could put the ball where and what kind of velocity they got on it and receivers and DBS get to show off.

So it was pretty cool. That's what's up, man. Shout out, Dia. We're not going to talk. We're not going to talk too much about this. Y'all, y'all see Dia for yourself. And he, you know, he'll be fine. He'll be good.

Yeah, check him out, though. I got a plug-in, bro, because it's really about to start happening because he takes the wheel this year. So add Diabelle 3, QB1 on Twitter. Go follow him, if you will, please. My young buck needs the support. If you want to see him and all, like, all the highlight portion of it, make sure you go just follow him on Twitter. But if you want to see the highlight portion of it,

Just see all of Rogers retweets on his Twitter page. That's my Twitter. Let me and his little brother. That's my job. Listen, that's what you do. Listen, bro. For anyone out there,

as we killed time on pot, I love this part about us, man. We're just really good at getting in a bag and taking 10, 12 minutes and just, we'll talk basketball on a minute, damn it. Hold tight. But for anybody out there, new father,

new mother, new uncle that's going to be really supportive or aunt, what have you? as they get older, you become a lot of things. You are not just like caretaker. I am a I'm an Uber driver. I am a therapist. No, Uber drivers get paid, Roger.

You're not an Uber driver. No, you're right. You're right. I am a therapist. I get paid in love, Logan. My wife and I, Uber drivers, therapists, massage therapist, PT, you name it. And one of my latest jobs has been to be a PR director. And that's what I do for my two sons that are in seventh, eighth and ninth grade, bro.

I just work on their PR. I work on their profiles and keep their head clean so they can just go out and do what they do. But I do their, you know, I try to help them with their thing, right? So, you know, I like them to control it. But I tell them, hey, we got to get, you got to be moving. Here's what we, you know, got to do this. Got to get, got to do that. Like, it's part of my job, bro.

Speaking of developing prospects. Oh, you're getting so good. at this. Listen, you're getting really good at this. Like really, you've come a long way. Go back and listen to some of our old ones,

bro. Oh, man, I don't want to. But speaking of doing that, over the weekend, I saw Palo Benquetto from New Orlando Magic. And there's like certain teams

that when they come through or certain players that I just got to see, right? I got to go, I got to watch them, especially young guys. And he was on that list. First,

of all, first impressions, I got there pretty early. And as I was walking into the Chase Center media room, he was walking out, right? Like, walking out to do his pregame warmup. And you want to talk about a child in a man's body? It's, it's, it's, it's just, I wasn't around to, like, see Carmelo in 03, 04, like I saw him on television. Not like that. It wasn't like that. He wasn't like that. Well, he was, he was big, but not, not, you know, that kid's kind of sculpted big. Mello was just a large body. Okay. Well, all right. That's what I remembered, what I thought Mello was. But anyway, he's more of what you're saying. Like, he's just like, Palo's just a sculpted body. He's like, dog, he's not, he's how old? How old is he? You know, that's how I looked at him,

right? And he's just, you know, sing and break my soul, you know, while he's stretching and stuff. He's just really in a bag. But the thing that was, um, really just eye open. And he's just eye open. about this, the pregame workout. Not necessarily anything that he did or that what he was doing, but I saw Magic Coach Jamal Mosley just out there pregame, right? And not only was he out there pregame. He was, you know, when Paolo got out there, he was taking a more hands-on approach than what you see from a head coach in the league, right?

Because just full transparency, head coaches really don't go out that much pregame. They just, that's just not something they do. Some do, but by and large, most don't. They leave that to the developmental staff or the, maybe an assistant coach is out there. Usually it's like the coaches behind the bench that are out there, not usually the coaches that are in front of the bench that are out there. So, anyway, Coach Mosley was out there and he's giving them, you know,

this is how you, this is, this is the, your post tips, you know, this is how you, you know, go baseline when you got a guy behind you, This is how you feel somebody behind you, you know, how they're guarding you, you know, which dictates where you go in the post, right? And it was just really insightful because, like, I don't, I'm not yet at the point where I know the difference between what require, which team requires what. And I do know that the magic being a young team require a bit more than, say, the, you know, the warriors or, or, you know, the Grizzlies or the Nuggets or some of these, these upper echelon teams. But how do you know when you need to be on the, you know, the Nuggets developmental train or the magic developmental train where the head coach is actually, you know, help literally molding his star every single day? What is the difference? Well, I mean, that's really interesting because like you just said, I can't remember a single head coach at any level that I played at other than high school being on the floor.

with us in a pre-game capacity. Certainly not in the NBA. There's a lot of stuff going on in terms of dialing in and making sure that everybody's on the same page when the game starts. So I would never see a head coach. So that's really interesting. Now, the game, you know, we talk about this all the time, not just on the pod, but not only has the game changed, but the player has changed as well from an emotional standpoint, from a, you know, from a just, a connectivity standpoint from from player to coach like there's a different level of connection i guess that the kids need now there's an immediate feedback that they need in a way um that we didn't necessarily either either need or felt like we needed but maybe that's why he's on the floor right

developing a real relationship with his guy with his star because typically and jamal's a really good coach and i like jemal he's a good dude but typically you don't see that so i don't have a great answer as at any level why your head coach would be out there working with with with with a young player that would almost always 99.9% of the time fall to a trusted assistant you know most guys most assistants have a group of guys that are their guys on the team so like if they're 12 guys and they're four assistants each assistant really relates to three guys so those will be his guys that he works out and stuff like that but i that you just blew me away with that logan i'm i'm stuttering and stammering for a great answer because I don't know why Jamal Mosley

would feel the need other than, and I'm just speculating, it's a new generation of coach, a player of relationship between the two. And maybe in that world, as I haven't been around it for almost like nine or 10 years now, maybe in that world, that's the best way to start developing those relatable bonds that can prove dividends when you need them the most. But I think, I think in terms of good organizations, organizations that are always winning and traditionally looked upon as desirable locations, development never stops. It never stops. Now, players age out of certain levels of development as they move into playing more minutes and being more vital role players on your team and sometimes, in even some cases, stars, like their level of development and work that

they put in with a coach pregame, that will change as their career progresses. But the development never stops for the people that are coming into the building, for the young guys, for the ones that we need to get caught up to speed. You're like a sponge at that point. Man, you are, you are learning so much. Your head is, in some cases, spinning so fast that you're taking every second you can as a coach or as a developmental staff to really sit down or be on the court and teach because they're not enough hours in the day for them to get all this information. You know, there's a lot. And so you've got to get it to them in any way you can.

So development never stops, whether a team's at the Nuggets point or at the magic's point, you just might have more players from the magic's perspective that are in that early stage of development versus Denver being further down the line. And I wanted to see how the magic kind of did what they did. One, they're a young team. One, they got, you know, a guy like Paolo. And another thing, you know, they're just, they're Eastern Conference teams. So you only get to see them once a year out here on the West Coast.

So I really wanted to see how they kind of went about things. And you could tell, I mean, obviously you could tell it's a young team, but you could tell just by how they moved, how much of a young team it was. Like, you know, everyone is developing something, right? There's just a youthful energy that you could only get, where, you know, the youthful energy where you don't know what's next. You know, we're just working brick by brick every day.

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Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia. 1-800, next step, or text next step to 53344 in Arizona, 1-888-789-77-7-77, or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. 1-8009 with it in Indiana, 1-800-522-470470 or visit KSgamblinghelp.com in Kansas City. 1-877-770 stop in Louisiana. visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland or 18778 Hope N.Y or text Hope N.Y in New York, 1,800, 522, 470, 4700 in Wyoming or visit 1800 gambler.net in West Virginia. When you have a guy like Paolo or you have a guy, you know, that you know is going to be great,

or at least has the appearance that he's going to be great, it would seem like the support for him, needs to be paramount, even more so than a normal rookie. And it made me think about just the evolution of just how we, how we give support to our rookies in the NBA, where, you know, back in the day, you know, even somebody like you, every story you tell me, it feels like by and large, you are on your own.

Like, I'm going to Atlanta and I'm just going to do this fucking workout and we're going to see what happens. It seems like, like here or, you know, teams that I've been around. Like, I'll just take for the Warriors, for example, like for the area and guys, historically speaking, you know, guys, if they did have anybody, probably maybe somebody like a big homie from childhood that comes through, you know, that is just living with them or just around in the same market that they're in or somewhere close and then flies up and sees them periodically,

right? That's usually how it goes. That still exists. But I think about right now, like I see certain they'll have the guy that they grew up with or the person that they grew up with as a support system. But now the team has a liaison big homie that it works under the front office. And now that person is also in charge of just making sure, yo, does the little homie have like things to do that are constructive while he's not playing basketball, right?

Or does this is his house set up? Does he, does he have groceries? Do you have things to do? Like how much more support do, you know, these guys need now? and what were the lessons that were learned back in the day that probably helped heating this new generation of players? Well, it's a really interesting question. It's kind of a semi-deep conversation.

The league has gotten younger and younger, right? And so when I came into the league, and yeah, I went to Atlanta by myself, and I was out in San Antonio just trying to figure out where I was going to live and bought a car and then realize I was getting cut. And so not having someone with me that kind of knew the ropes and was connected to the organization, even though I wasn't a star, it could have got me in trouble had I bought a house or signed a lease or something like that.

I just thankfully didn't. So when I was cut, I could just get up and leave. But I was 23 years old, 22 years old. I had been to school for a long time. I was not an 18-year-old with one year of school experience, like very little life experience. I had been in Boston for two years. I had been on my own in Miami for three years. Like, I wasn't a baby.

Some of these kids are babies, essentially. They are really, really young men coming into the NBA. So it's imperative that you have structures in place that can help them not just grow on the court, but off the court. And in some instances, I'd go as far as to say protect them from some of the elements in whatever city they go to that would look to maybe pray on. a young, relatively inexperienced millionaire. And they're out there, right? So, like, it's really critical that those things are in place. But I think the genesis of it was the younger players coming into the league right at the transition point where you stopped having all those older minimum vets on the team.

Like, again, when I came into the league, I walked into a locker room, Logan. Now, granted, this was a win-now locker room. So the magic are at a point where it's not necessarily win now. So that roster is going to naturally look younger, right? It's organic. But I walked into a locker room. Everybody had three kids. You know what I mean?

These were grown adult men. This was not a, hey, yo, you want to grab a beer and play some PlayStation 5 type of locker room. These were grown men. And the next locker room I went to was even older. San Antonio was Terry Porter. and David Robinson and, you know, Jaron Jackson and the general, these were grown adult men and you don't have that in a way. And so as those dudes started to trickle out and those locker rooms started getting younger and younger and there's only one vet. Orlando's roster, Terrence Ross is the oldest dude on the roster.

He's 31. Yeah. Like that's not, that's not hell old. So like you have, people looked around and said, oh, we got to get some support. Like there's nothing in the locker room now that is going to grab a young Paulo Bankero. put him underwing, teach him the ropes in a way we need him to learn the ropes both on and off the court. And so they had to start employing those people. They had to start putting, you know, people, people in jobs and in positions that could help, you know, with that. It would have been

great for me, but I was still able to figure it out because I had some experience. A lot of these kids don't. And it's not, I mean, it's not a shot at all. Paloamankero is one year out of two years out of high school, man. Yeah. Now, and some people, you know, this, Logan, I don't mean to cut you off, but it's, it's a big picture. You know, Chappellabank Carroll strikes me watching him and his family as having a really good solid, um, you know, uh, well grounded background where, where he would kind of know how to conduct himself maybe and, and be responsible, responsibly and things like that in a way that maybe other people don't. And so you're, you're trying to protect people and you're trying to

protect your your uh your investment well it's interesting because you said something about just like how you know certain teams we're in the stage right now we're like the good teams are just these young young teams for by and large for the most part right i think about the grizzlies right where they're a really young team but don't have just the one vet that they need right they're a vet away and not even like and i always think about the grizzlies and what would have happened because you know and dracoa godala got traded to Memphis. And he never, he just, he never had plans to play there. But I always think of an alternate reality like when, if he did play there. And what that would have done to that locker room.

And just the lesson, the more lessons they would have learned there, you know, with just a guy like that in the locker room. I mean, I don't know how much trade he had on the tires. He played into Miami. He had one more stop after that, right? Like, he did have some tread on the tires. And I think now he'd probably be too old for that locker room. But just. like I just think about that and what that could have done for a team like the Grizzlies, right? Where you have that. What do you think about just them being a veteran?

Does that play a part in what they're doing right now? We'll talk about the Grizzlies next segment, but that does seem like a team that could have used or could use somebody that's like a, you know, an effective veteran. Yeah, I've long said that I believe the Grizz to be a piece like that away. you know, they have enough on-court talent. You know, Stephen Adams, I don't, Stephen Adams is a grizzled vet.

Like, he's been around a long time. But I do believe them to be an experienced, seasoned piece away. And that isn't really, let me rephrase that. That's not necessary through 97% of the season. it's not imperative that they have that. They have a lot of great young players that are hungry and they're out to prove, A, who they are individually in this league,

B, the Memphis Griversleys are a championship contending team, C, that Memphis, you know, the city is a basketball, like power. Like, there's a lot, and they're doing a good job of it. So through 97% of the season, like not having that on your roster isn't going to be an issue. it's the 3% of the time, you know, when, let's say something pops up and we have a decision to make as to whether or not we respond to it. And our response is going to get us in some hot water and it's going to be a bad look for you individually or the team or what have you. That guy say, hey, hey, hey, hey, let's not go there.

Let's not do that. Let's not do that. Let me just lay it out to you like that. Do with that what you will. that young fellow takes a step back. Maybe he thinks on it for a second before he fires out that tweet or what have you. And cooler heads prevail, right? That's not even touching.

That's off the court stuff. But then in the trenches, deep, late playoff runs, you know, when somebody, anybody of those six young players that are really good looks a little shaky and isn't really, you know, the moment got a little big for him. And these are fractional things. This isn't like over the course of a series. I'm talking about one game maybe where somebody doesn't look like themselves. And you have that guy who's just steady when who's been there. And he can be in that ear. And if that kid doesn't snap out of it, you can put him in and let him hold his weight.

You're just talking about people that can hold their weight while John Morant does what John Morant does. And Jaron Jackson Jr. does what, you know, cats that are solid in the foxhole. And so they're not missing him through 97% of it. But I do think there's 3% of the time where a guy like, that would be very, very, very valuable to a Memphis team. And I'll even take Orlando for Apollo. I looked at their roster again. Maybe Terrence Ross is that guy.

Maybe it's cost prohibitive. I don't know. I don't know the cap. I wasn't doing their numbers. But they are so young that it's almost, he, Jamal's almost got to raise Paulo Ben Carroll because ain't nobody else over there going to be able to raise him. Bro, I just like, it would just like a look like a whole bunch of kids over there, bro.

just a whole bunch of kids trying to figure it out, you know, in the abyss. And that's a difficult thing, man. It's a very difficult thing for, for, I mean, think about yourself when you first went away to college, man. If somebody had said to you in your freshman year, hey, listen, next year as a sophomore, you are going to lead all 17-year-olds. We're going to bring in a bunch of 17-year-olds. You're the oldest one now.

You've got one year of experience, and now you lead this shit and we need to win and the ball's yours. Like, you'd be like, yeah, shit, yeah, let me get it. But you weren't emotionally ready for that. Doc, I tell you what, man, like, I was in the abyss during, during college years, dog, like, where I just didn't even know, I didn't know shit. I'm still learning lessons that I didn't learn now. You know what I'm saying? Where you're just alone and college is just, especially when you know, that's weird of it. Bro, I was just talking about like the early 20s, because I'm my late one's not to age me too much, but just like how your early 20s literally is just

you trying not to be an idiot. You're just trying not to do it, right? Like, yeah, that's your stride. It's just the stride you're trying to get to because it's just you're your shitbird. You can be a shitbird, right? In your ways. And you're trying, like, the good ones you're trying to,

let me just not mess up today. Let me figure something out. today, right? That's, that's really what it is. And, um, and to like, get all the bread and like, get all these responsibility, man, like, it's tough. That's why it does, like, the first few years, it has a lot to do with basketball, but in a lot of ways, it don't got shit to do with basketball. You got to figure out a whole life life skills, man. I mean, we'll talk about, you know, with my kids, I had the conversation with Dia yesterday about time management. It is a critical component to being successful. You have to learn.

that now. You know, you are, you're 15 years old and it's important that you learn how to carve out the time that you need in your day. I was 21 years old. I ain't know how to manage my damn day. You know what I mean? Like I, I knew I wanted to get to the gym. I knew that. I knew, you know, there were things I knew I wanted to do. But in terms of putting the pieces together and making sure I had time allotted, I didn't, I didn't have those skills. And so, you know, again, I was 21-22. So a 17-year-old who's got the world at his fingertips, who's got everyone in any city pulling at him for attention

because of who he is and what he means to the NBA franchise to think that he's capable of doing that on his own. In some cases, he may be. Those are special individuals. In a lot of cases, they need a village around them to help get them right. And they also need like a sense of normalcy, right? And it's hard to have a sense of normalcy when you're such a big star and famous, right?

because, like, you know, you might want to go to publics and get some groceries. You can't do that. Like, I'll be seeing these super duper stars. They can't go out and do that. They can't, you know, like. Well, I stayed in the shop right in Philly City. Yeah. Stayed in.

Could Iverson go there, though? No, no, no, no. But listen, oh, you know what's funny? Because it was just stupid little. But I stayed in the shop right every whatever day, went in there, got my little groceries, He was bombed, went home, no problem. As soon as that game six and game seven happened, as soon as it happened. Like, my family came into town for game seven, so they were there.

The next day, or two days later, we went out to the King of Prussia Mall. And we were acting business as normal, man. We're going to go walk around the mall. It's halfway to my grandparents' house. We're in the King of Prussian Mall. The mall literally shut down. Like that? I was engulfed with hundreds, if not.

a thousand people in a matter of minutes. It was scary. I had no security because I never needed it. Like, you know, I was again, I'm in the shop. I'm in a shop right. Dolo. So me and my mom and my dad. And when they descended Logan, I got claustrophobic, bro. They were they were all around me. People were pushing and shoving and it happened just like that. So I couldn't even imagine being somebody like, no, Alan couldn't go nowhere. I was thinking about, uh, I mean, he was popping. You got a good, you had a good, you had a good little playoff run. Philly. You know how Philly is. That level of fame dissipated pretty quickly. It was for a hot second.

But I wouldn't know. I wouldn't have traded it, Logan. I wouldn't have my life as a kind of role guy, but getting to go about my daily life with my family and my kids and my wife versus superstardom and not ever being able to do anything, like just off the humble. Like, yo, do I want to go do that? I don't know that I would have traded that.

Oh, no, for sure. I mean, I think that like, I mean, when you're in it, though, it's tough, you know, when you're in it. When you're in it and you're just trying to have your family go to the mall like a normal thing, like you're not ready for what that. No one can prepare you for that. I was thinking about Jordan Poole, right? Like that's something that he's going through this year. Like he was really, really good last year. Now he's feeling the effects of his stardom and everything that it, you know, everything that he did last year, the stardom that comes with it.

Like, he was trying to go to art gallery the other day with, like, with his photographer, right? Show up to the dude that's been, that's been like holding him down for the last year. Jordan Jimenez, he goes for five minutes at his art gallery and gets swapped. It has to dip, right? Like, it's, it's tough when you try to have normalcy in your life at this age. And that's some of the stuff that they don't really teach you. And that's all the thoughts that I got when I was seeing, you know, Jamal,

coach up Palo, because there's this kid that's great as a hooper and it's about to be a star in all ways. But I'm thinking like, what does this dude have to deal with? I wonder what this guy is going through right now

because it's not just, it's more than just a workout and teaching post moves at the end of the day. Oh, you're teaching. He's teaching life. Yes, he's teaching life. He's making a connection to a kid that generationally there is a gap

and it's increasingly harder to figure out how to communicate with them. So I would imagine, again, this is just speculation that Jamal said, you know what language and connection people who hoop always have, Logan? So let me get out here on the court with you, bro, because that's always going to show you like I'm invested and I got love for you because I'm out here with you, you know? Yeah, man. Let's take a quick break.

And we're going to see who in the league is living a rap. in the next segment. Hello. This is your Real Ones podcast and I am Jade. I will be enhancing your listening experience with certain facts

about hosts Raja and Logan and producers Kai and Kerm. We hope that you find our presentation pristine, funny as fuck and educational. Rara and we are back. We've been trying to

get this segment right. We've been trying to do the names. we'll see if this sticks. And the question is, do we believe their wraps? Now, third Ikeye and OG Kerm have compiled a list of teams and given us great stats for each team. And we're just going to go down the line to see if we believe what they're cooking up. At this very moment, not like anything.

And at this very moment, do we believe them? And we're going to first go in the Memphis Grizzies, who are seven and three in their last 10 games. and they're on a six-game winning streak since the last time I saw them on Christmas Day. They've beaten the Raptors, Pelicans, Kings, Hornets, Magic and Jazz,

16 and 3 at home, 10 and 10 on the road. And before I get to, you know, the rest of their stats, this is something that's really important to Raja. They are first in defensive rating and 13th in offensive rating. So they are not in the top 10

in both offensive and defensive efficiency yet. I'm sure that they can get. get their offense cooking over the last part of the season. But after all that I have told you you right now, there is more. There's the big three of Jared Jackson and Desmond Bain and Jai. They haven't played 10 games yet together this season. Malika Andrews talked to Jail Morant earlier this season, and he told her, I'm fine in the West. I'm good. Do we believe their raps, Raj? I'll start with you.

Do we believe they're rap? I do believe their wraps. Yeah, I think they're living their wraps. I think they are in the area where I would have liked to have seen them be. I think we talked about them earlier in the year, maybe coming out without their eye necessarily on the prize or without being all the way dialed in. But I've also referenced how long an NBA season is. And if you come out of the gates too hot, too locked in, how hard that is to sustain. I think Memphis having the success that they had the last couple of years are right where they need to be.

I like that defensive number. Like that's always sustainable. Offense, you can be a great offensive team. And it's easier to be off on the offensive end that it is to be on the defensive end, if that makes sense. So on any given night, I might go into a gym and the shots go cold. When you're solid defensively, that's less likely to happen. So if you made me pick one to keep you afloat, I'm picking the defensive side of the ball to be more sustainable. I think offense, they'll get that figured out.

John Moran is still in a situation or situationally late in games, trying to figure out how to stop him from getting the necessary buckets when his team is locked down is as difficult to do as anyone in the league. Yeah, I believe they're raps. I think they're for real. I'm hesitant in believing their rabs at this point. And I think that's probably about just what I, like, what I saw in person. From what I saw in person, I am hesitant to believe their arrest because I saw them, the Christmas game against the Warriors was pretty disappointing to me in terms of, like, I know that they've played well since then. But there are games on the schedule where you just, you kind of, those are statement games, right? This team took your lunch in the postseason.

And back to your point, Rajah, of just, you know, the veteran leadership where was kind of non-existent last year for Memphis where they would just do things or they would tweet certain things. And they would kind of say certain things in the media their coach would, Tyler Jenkins, would kind of say things in the media that would suggest that they are just not at the maturity level of a team that is trying to win tight. titles, right? And I saw that, and I saw that the game against, in Christmas was the game where they could just rectify all of that shit. This is a game where John Morant is debuting his new shoe that we've been clamoring for on this program that he needs this new Nike shoe. I saw him. They were icy. But this is where, this is the game where they released the shoe, right? Or they, they at least, they show, they released like him actually playing in it. And they also, this is the biggest stage. This is the biggest stage of the NBA season, and they go out there and lay an egg. That was very disappointing, right? Because this is the game that you have to have in front of a national TV audience.

And when they laid the egg, they showed all the remnants of the team that didn't win the title last year, relying too much on John Morin for offensive scoring, right? Standing around a lot and just watching him cook. And also, like, just not meeting the moment. Right.

Overall. And that's something that I always fear with the Grizzlies, right? And I'm on the other side of that. If they, I feel like they're, they've been the Cinderella story for the last three years. I feel like this season is going to be the year where, hey, man, if they flame out like they did last year, they're going to be some real questions about what's going on in terms of, you know, who coaches this team or, you know, just the questions that you normally get when you have a team with promise and they're not, getting to those, they're not reaching those aspirational goals that they're set. So I think if they flame out in the Eastern Conference finals or semifinals,

I think there's going to be, it's no longer going to be the Cinderella story where you see like, oh yeah, the Grizzlies, they're all vibes. It's not going to no longer be that because they're here to win and they're here to win year and year out. And this is a really pivotal year for them. But from what I saw live and the game that I saw them in, I don't believe their wraps yet. Um, that, yeah, I mean, listen, when, when you're, when we're talking about believing their reps, I guess I should have clarified, like I always have to do when we do these is like, are we

talking about winning a chip? Are we talking about having legs to win a chip? Are we picking them as favorites? I could see everything that you're saying being reasons, reasons for hesitancy when you look at Memphis. That's very fair. Um, there are like with most teams, holes that I can poke in their their chances to win a championship. But I do think that they are right there, like, where they should be in terms of upper level of the Western Conference. If you had asked me coming into this season, whether they would be a favorite to win a championship, I would have told you flatly no.

So because they still aren't, that's not a reason for me necessarily to not believe their raps, if that makes sense. That's fair. And we haven't given the full list yet, but based on their expectations is where. I got you. And that's fair. I can buy that. I still believe them,

but I can see where you're coming from. Okay. And so another team. Let's go out. You know, we're in Memphis right now. We just, you know,

we just got our barbecue and stuff. But, you know, we're going to go down. We're going to take a flight down to New Orleans and see what's up with the Pelicans, you know. Friend of the show, David Griffin,

we see you out there, you know, Cafe Dumas. We out here. You know the vibes. The Pelicans, six and four in their last 10 games. They're currently on a two-game

losing streak. They lost the Nets and Mavs back to back. Great home team. 17 and 5 at home. Zion Williamson is currently out for at least three weeks with a hamstring injury. Ingram is hoping to return. They're third in the West. These are the numbers you really want, Ra.

Fifth and defensive rating. Seventh and offensive rating. Do we believe the Pelicans wraps as a team on the rise right now? I'm not even going to say championship because I don't even think that's in, I don't even think they're ready for all of that yet. I'm not even going to qualify it with that. They haven't even gone through any growing pains whatsoever. Are the Pelicans, do you believe their wraps as an up-and-coming team

and a team that's going to be formidable for the next few years? I do. I do believe that. With the caveat of not really knowing, like Zion's a wild card for me. And he's just a wild card, whether he's available, whether he's injured, like I don't know. but they've proven to me without Zion last year and their body of work throughout that and even at times this year that they are going to be fine.

I believe them to be foundationally solid. They, their numbers support that. You know, you're a top 10 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. Like I told you, I believed in Memphis, and they were only top 10 in one. I regurgitate that all the time about championships being top 10 in both over the last, I don't know, go back and keep looking until your fingers. are numb and and they will have been both right top 10 in both so so um yeah i do believe they're for real and it goes deeper than that they're they're they're a hyper competitive bunch like

like david griffin i do have a little insight into this team just because that's my buddy they're hyper competitive um they are very very rangy and and and and long and versatile defensively they've got a lot of guys that buy into doing that they have a a three Three-headed bucket-getting monster when you have to step outside of the scope of your offense. Any three of the C.J. McCollums, Brandon, Brandon Ingram, or Zion, when healthy, can just get you a bucket. You don't have to run shit. The team could have scouted you up. They could be taken away all your actions. And you give them the ball and put their defender on an island and they will create. And so that is critical to a team that I believe in. And I do really believe in Willie Green.

I believe in his coaching. I believe in his connection. I believe in his messaging. And so, yes, I think they're for real. Now, do I think they will win a championship this year? Probably not. But do I think they will be in the conversation in the Western Conference playoffs? Yes.

And, you know, no one's going to want to play them. No. No, pelicans, no, absolutely not. They're going to be a hard out. They're going to be, I don't even know if I've, I don't even know if I've, I've said my prediction. I haven't even said if I believe them or not. But what I will go with, they're going to be,

and this is going to educate what I'm going to say. But like the pelicans are going to be one of those like 09, 10 Thunder teams. You know what I'm talking about? The team that played against the Lakers and took them to six games, right? They're going to be that team to. And it also depends on when they're seeding. Because if they keep this third seed, if they can keep up this dog, they're going to make a little run.

Because they're better than the teams that are in the bottom half of the Western Conference. And they're just going to play without expectation, which will be great. You know, they're still in that sweet spot where they might be a year ahead of schedule. You know, they're just in a really nice sweet spot. And I also just love, they're 17 and 5 at home. I love that they have made New Orleans a great place and a hard place to play for an opposing team. You're going into New Orleans, you're going to have to bring your lunch pail. You're going to have to earn a win out there in New Orleans because when they are turnt, they are turnt in that building.

And so I do believe the Pelicans wraps. I do think that they are going to be a hard out. In the years to come, I just want Zion to be healthy. We both love Brandon Ingram's game. We love Zion's game. They got a good program down there. I love watching the Pelicans play. We're getting on Rogers PJ.

We're going from New Orleans because there's no direct. There's no direct flights from New Orleans to this place. A place called Sacramento. Where the Kings are fifth in the west, 20 and 18. They have lost. They've been four and six in their last 10 games. Lost of the Hawks and the Lakers and back-to-back games. Lakers selling that narcotic again,

and people are buying it at this point. We'll see what happens. But they are fourth in offensive rating. 26th in defensive rating, which is pretty surprising considering Mike Brown as their coach. De Aaron Fox is averaging 24, 5, and 4. He's playing an all-star level. Would not be surprised if he got maybe an all-star,

he might get an all-star birth going into this. I would not be surprised, his first one. Sabonis is also balling. He's averaged to 19 and damn near 13 right now. And their third in the league in pace, which makes sense considering Deeran Fox is their point guard. I am going to say, And these are the expectations that I'm laying out for the Kings.

I think at their floor, they are a playing team, at their ceiling, they're probably where they are right now. So I do believe they're wraps. I do think that they are building something there. I've been around SAC and, you know, I actually started interning and SAC during the lockout year in 2011. So I've been able to see a lot of, I've been able to see a lot of SAC. for the last few years, right? Like, I've been able to see, you know, where they've gone. I, you know, I was interning and just kind of cutting my teeth out there

and was able to see a lot. And honestly, this seems like the most sustained, you know, revamp, if you want to call it, that the most sustained building block type team that they've ever had and error that they've ever had. And I respect their coaching staff. They have Mike Brown on there. they have Leandro Barbosa as an assistant friend of the show. And so they have a lot of guys there that have seen things.

So I'm going to say I do buy the Kings Raps at this point in time. What do you think, Rob? So you did a very good job of explaining what expectations were as it relates to whether you're buying the wraps or not, because I'm going to buy them also. But for different reasons than I bought the first two teams, which I did. believe to be further along in the process of getting closer and closer to a championship in Sacramento. But I'll give you, I'll give you three numbers. 31, 31 and 30. Do you know what those three numbers are? What are they? Those are win totals for the last three years for the Sacramento Kings.

31, 31 and 30. And right now they have 20 wins. And while I believe there are pieces, away from where they ultimately want to go. The fact that you are as high in the league as you are in pace of play and offensive efficiency, the fact that you've got at least two players that are building blocks of a franchise, you're playing as well as you are. There's excitement again. I am buying their wraps. They are even earlier in the process.

You said that New Orleans is in this sweet spot. the Sacramento Kings are just starting to get approach a spot if they can continue on the trajectory of adding pieces, making sure they're stable at the coaching position. Like Mike Brown's a great higher. Obviously, I love LB. But making sure that that's foundationally correct. And then continuing to build off of what you're doing right now, obviously sustaining it or some momentum through this season's really important. But I believe they'll do that. So I do by their wraps because of where they are coming from and what that's looked like in Sacramento from an organizational standpoint for the last three to five years, I think that if we, if we are basing it off of what reasonable

expectations were, yeah, absolutely, I'm buying their wraps. Roger, you know, we have to do this. You know, we criticize people on this podcast. But, you know, what we also do? Yeah, we give flowers. We apologize, too. We give flowers, but we also, But I have to apologize while giving flowers. I have to actually apologize because when the kings made the trade to trade Tyrese Halliburton to Indiana, I was on the king's head. Why would you do this? What is your problem? And honestly, it wasn't even the deal.

It was more so the reputation that the king's. had of just, you know, trading away guys, right? Even the guys that they have that are building blocks. And both can be true. I do think that Tyrese Halliburton is a building block type player. He is. You see what he's doing in Indiana right now. He's being great for them.

Sure. But I was, I was in my emotional bag. I was, I was, you guys can go listen and check on it. But I, I criticize this deal a lot, basically centered around the reputation. And I want to say, I apologize. of the King's staff, ref, good label, and a crew. And specifically one Monty McNair, who has been a great general manager so far during his tenure with Sacramento Kings.

Now, you know, there's been some extension talks from him and the Kings. They need to get that figured out because Monty McNair's been doing a great job. Also, like, I'm looking at what else the Kings have, man. They also have, like, Alvin Gentry in the front office as an advisor. You know, they just, they just have guys that, you know, they just have guys that, you just know have been in the league and have been successful in the league in their roles. And this is like, yo, man, I like what they got cooking right now. I do.

I think that they're on the right path. Now, they haven't earned like the year-long thing. They haven't earned the benefit of the doubt. But, you know, they're on, they're playing with house money at this point. So it's very, I like what I see. Very mature of you to come on here and apologize. I love that we both can do that. Right.

Like, I mean, look. It's just hoop, bro. We're not yet. we're not getting them all right. Let me just say this because I had a chuckle while you were talking. I know. I didn't like that chuckle. I didn't know what it was.

It was not. No, I want to clarify. I was not at all. I had nothing to do. I was actually proud of you for the apology. I looked up Monti McNair because I don't know what he looks like, right? Okay. I don't know what he looks like.

Okay. So I looked him up. And the reason I had to chuckle is because of the first picture that came up is one of those posed, like you know when you played like CYO basketball like in the third. grade and they put a ball like on your thigh and they had you put both hands on it and tilt your head and smile at the camera. The first picture that came up with Monty McNair was that pose. So I'm not. It's mad swaggerless. I'm not going to hold you. And that could have been anyone. If you put Raja like this with the ball, it's hell of it's swaggerless. It's just the pose. Yeah, it's

got nothing to do with this. So I had a shuffle because of the pose. I was like, I remember doing that and being like, yo, my man, I do not want to take this picture like this, bro. It's whack. You know why those pictures are white. And it has nothing to do with Monty McNair at all. It's whack because those ones exactly, bro, you can't wear like logos and shit. Only team logos. You have to put on like a suit with the, it looks just, it looks hell of swaggerless. It's just, there's nothing else I can say.

I get it. Okay. Yeah. But well done, no. Hey, you're doing your thing out there, brother. And so like for that, cool. And you got to take it. Like there's no avoid in it.

You're like, yo, I don't want to take the picture like that. They're like, you're going to take the picture like that. You're like, I had to do that when I was working at a, I was working before. I got to the ring. I was working at NBC Sports Bay Area Covenant Warriors, right? And like they had, we had to take the stock pictures, bro. And it just, it just looks so vanilla and whack. Like, I just, there's no way to, it's no one's fault. It is just what has to be done. And it's just, for those 45 minutes, it just looks, wow. It looks whack. So people who worked with me in NBA, like, media relations department, usually were really cool with me because I often went out of my way

to do everything I could. Like, and I was, like, and I was. really good with everybody and I'd sign whatever, go to signings or do the little commercials, whatever. But they knew that the one day of the year that I hated was Media Day because I was anti-jumbo-tron cornball guy. So I hated that shit with the passion, bro. They would bring you in there and you'd be like, they'd be like, okay, now everybody get loud. You know, when you see your favorite player up there talking about now everybody gets up and make some noise. It all happens during Media Day. It all happens all during media day. And everybody, you guys are, just paint the picture.

Because you guys are always just annoyed to be there. It's okay. It's fine because you guys are going to take all the pictures and do all the shit and then deal with us asking you questions. And you're like, dog, I just want to get this over with because there's no practice day. You guys are not getting any work done. There's no work done. But like, so to put it in perspective, dealing with the media that day for me was the best part. It was all the bullshit jumbotron, fake green screen, get the crowd.

Come on, get up. Defense, defense. It felt so fabricated and, like, I hated it. And so people who normally loved me, I'd leave there that day. And I know they were like, that guy's a fucking dick. Yeah. He's a dick. Yeah, yeah.

Because they don't realize, like, in March when they see Roger Bell in the Jumbotron and he's like, everybody get loud. Yay. Why is he not engaged? Why does he care of fuck? But there's also on the other side of that, there's motherfuckers like Kevin Garnett, who's like locked the fuck in on that shit. He was like, everybody get the, get up.

Everybody get up. Yes. Yes. It was not my bag. I was not great at that. Shout out, Monty McNair. We know you had to do that on that media day. Sorry, but let's round this out, which is with the team that is honestly relevant in the news right now.

We haven't talked about a lot during this season for obvious reasons. But let's talk about the Brooklyn Nets who are 9-1 in their last 10 games, one of the hottest teams in the league. but Kevin Durant just sprained his MCL and we'd be re-evaluated in two weeks, right? That's tough. Before we get into the KD and whatever that, let me just bring some stats to you real quick. Pre-KD injury.

They were on a nine-game winning streak that was just recently ended by the Bulls. And, you know, they have their fifth and offensive rating, also eighth and defensive rating. Everything that we talked about last year, if they can do all these things, if Ben Simmons can figure it out, if they can figure their defense out,

if they can do all these, if they can, some people would say, if they could find a new coach. You know, we got respect for everybody. We're not saying, we're not talking about that.

But like, they were saying that, and all those things are kind of coming true, you know, those are, which is why it's tough to see Katie get injured at this point. But I will say this,

before the KD injury, and to answer everyone's question about this segment, I don't really believe their wraps based on what their expectations are. Their expectations right now are a title. And I don't think at this very point they can get there. This was pre-KD injury and now post-KD injury. It kind of, it sucks.

He's getting re-evaluated in two weeks. He had this, I think, believe this exact same injury last year. And they, it was tough for the nets to find footing because of the Kyrie stuff. And also they just didn't have as much of a well-rounded team. team at that point. This time, I think they could write the ship, but when you're talking about playing deep into the postseason and playing against teams like Boston and Milwaukee, I don't know if Brooklyn can get past those two teams. And they haven't proven that they can get past those team teams. So at this point, even with Katie, I think he'll be fine coming off of this injury.

And I think they will continue to roll in the regular season. But when it comes to the postseason, I don't believe them to be a championship contender at this point. What do you think, Raja? this is a tough one for me because I mean I want to give them a lot of credit for the way this ship's been righted I do believe that there was a checkout at the end of the day on Steve and I believe privately people probably wanted him gone and therefore you know we're all pros and we say we're out there giving it our best shot but all right this is just me I don't I don't think they were playing as hard as they could for them at the end of the day so obviously I'm biased but that's what it is. But that takes nothing away from what they've been able to do under

Jacques Vaughn, though. They've been fantastic, especially on the defensive end for me. They made huge strides. I mean, they're a top 10 team numbers wise in the NBA right now. They were bottom third, you know, before the move. So I give them, them being the team and, and, sorry, Jacques, huge amount of credit. I do think they're playing, you know, with the more, with a more more freedom offensively it looks like for whatever reason. Their guys getting involved

and people getting touches. The thing about that though is like you know, integrating some of those pieces like the Royce O'Neils and stuff like that, that wasn't an overnight thing. Those are things that take a little bit of time to develop the chemistry

and start to feel the flow and figure guys out and that's starting to happen too. So they are really, really good. And so while I want to say, because I've said for every other team, that I'm buying their wraps. And like, but because expectations for them, I will just regurgitate everything you just said.

I, I don't see them beating Brooklyn and or Milwaukee. You don't see them beating Boston and or Milwaukee. I'm sorry. And Boston and or Milwaukee. Boston and or Milwaukee, absolutely. So for that reason, it's going to force my hand to say I don't buy their wraps. But I don't want to say that because I do.

And so I'm not going to say it. Let's do this. Let me backtrack. Let me back off that. I buy their wraps because coming in coming into this season, while I did think championships were could be expected if you were playing and being the best version of yourselves, that quickly was met with like reality, which was this is a dumpster fire. And so the fact that they've been able to like regroup, get themselves pointed in the right direction, guys figure each other out, defensive schemes and philosophies, implement. on the fly and adhered to on the fly, which is a very hard thing to do. I am going to buy their wraps. I just don't believe that they are going to win the Eastern Conference. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that coming from where you came from. Now, at the start of this experiment, had you told me, had you told me they weren't going to be in a championship, I would have said failure. But where this thing ended last year and where it started this year to where it's at now, I'll buy the wraps.

Yeah. And it's just, every time I see the Brooklyn Nets, I think of like, I always, think about what could have been just overall, right? Because it's, it's kind of hard and it sucks to just see that this is the team that could make a finals run when they had so much talent and they had so many things that could have gone their way, right? This should have been a perennial Eastern conference team every single year. And like this year, let's say they do make a deep playoff run. There's so much uncertainty going beyond this season, right? Like just in general. And with the, with the two stars. I don't think, um, like, Kevin is given some interviews, but like, does he,

does he revamp his trade request next, next summer? Who knows? He hasn't said anything either way. We don't know if Kyrie is going to be back based on everything that's, that's transpired over the last summer, right? There's just, it seems like we're in a very calm phase of a big storm, right? We're just, we just, it's subsided, we're chilling, we're having a great few months, but we don't know what's on the horizon with this team. And I think that's also what's tough for me to kind of gauge with them because they're a great team. They have a lot of great players. And Katie's been playing really, really good this year. And so is Kyrie, right? And they've been a little bit under the radar because let's be frank. No one wants to talk about them because they have to talk

about the things that happened in the preseason and all those things, right? And so they haven't been talked about, but it's been a really good team overall. I just don't have a good gauge on what they could be because this is a small sample size and we don't know what is to come. There always seems like a shoe to drop with this team. But we're just in a calm period right now. So you're saying eye of the hurricane right now. And I can't be mad at you for saying that. Like, you know, they are, they've given us all the reason to believe that we are waiting for something else to happen.

Like, it's just, you got enough sample size now. It's always something. So until it's not, I mean, it'd be prudent to keep an eye on that. Like, oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see what happens. Well, in the meantime, we've given you guys a lot of content today.

I've got to get ready for this TCU, Georgia game, which third Ikeye is attending alumni of TCU. He's in L.A. right now. He got tickets. So if you see Third I Kai as SOFi, make sure you tap in, man. Go frogs, baby. Yeah, go frogs. Go frogs. So that's who I'm going for.

I'm going for TCU, man. I'm sorry, just because Third I Kai is on the call. I'm rocking with TCU and the orange frogs. Who you got tonight? I'm going to remain neutral because just because I think it's prudent for me to remain neutral at this point. I want to see a good football game, bro. Wow. Wow.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. This man out here is, and somehow he got corporate and diplomatic. Ain't that? That's wild. All right, man.

All right, guys. All right. We will see you guys Thursday. We might have some really big cooked up for you guys on Thursday pod. But in the meantime, make sure you enjoy this and make sure you tap in all our older episodes. You know, give us some feedback, man. Make sure you tap into the really's episode. That was hell of fun.

We gave you guys a whole recap of all the 2022. All right. Make sure you tap into our previous episodes. And we'll see you guys on Thursday, man. Talk soon. Howell.