The Ringer NBA Show - Paul George Is Gone, What Happens to Russ? | The Ringer NBA Show

Episode Date: July 7, 2019

Now that Kawhi and Paul George have joined forces, what is the market for Russell Westbrook (0:57)? Then we discuss Kawhi Leonard’s savvy moves as a behind-the-scenes general manager, and the Clippers’ potential next season (18:10). Plus, a check in on the Lakers’ new roster (34:20). Hosts: Chris Ryan, Kevin O'Connor, Jonathan Tjarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. A rewatchable spin-off show on Luminary called Rewatchables 1999 is taking a little summer break, but we'll be back in the fall with more movies including eyes wide shut, never been kissed, and more. In the meantime, we're launching a new show on Luminary about another influential moment in 1999 called Breakstuff, the story of Woodstock 99. The pod will dive deep on the iconic music festival and how its success and failures left its mark on history. The series begins on Tuesday, July 9th, and will be coming to you every Tuesday for eight weeks. So make sure to check out Breakstuff, the story of Woodstock 99 on Luminary.

Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It is the day after pod. This is Chris Ryan. I'm joined by Kevin O'Connor. What up? Jonathan Charks. What's up guys? Producer Craig is here. We are in my hotel room in Las Vegas. It's not as weird as it sounds. It's weirder. It's weirder. We are talking about the day after the mega-Kawai Leonard Paul George acquisition by the Los Angeles Clippers. and the ripple effects are already starting to be felt. Kevin and I recorded last night at 11.30 p.m. when the deal first went down. We were reeling then.

I'm still reeling now. And build it a pod today with Chris Mannix. John and Kevin both wrote on the ringer. Kevin wrote about how Kauai Leonard pretty much just changed our definition of what is possible in the NBA and talked a little bit about the fits of what Kauai and Paul George might look like together, what this means for the Lakers, what it means for the Raptors, what it means for the thunder. and John wrote about player power and Kauai Lenter

basically using LeBron's playbook against him, more or less. So those are both really fascinating pieces you can check out on the ringer.com now. I wanted to talk to these guys because as I was getting into Vegas today, the Russell Westbrook stuff started to trickle out. So not only if there have been reports,

there was reports last night that Sam Presti went faced with the prospect of losing Paul George because Kauai Leonard had been heavily recruiting George over the course of the week to join him, Presti tried to make a counteroffer basically to Toronto to say Westbrook and George for a package that's centered around Pascal Seacom. Messiah, Jiri from Toronto, whether or not he thought that was

basically he was being used as leveraging its clippers. We don't know yet. That stuff will eventually come out and as told two sources say pieces. But this is the first time we've ever sort of seen the possibility that Russell Westbrook could leave the thunder. And then today, ESPN reporting that Westbrook and his agent are in talks with the thunder about what to do next. What's the next chapter?

And for the first time, it looks like that. 11-year relationship could be coming to an end and that Westbrook could be on the block, which would signal presumably a full rebuild in Oklahoma City. So, guys, let's start. Kevin, start with you. What's your initial sort of reaction of these reports about Westbrook? It makes total sense. It's the right move.

With that package you got for Paul George, you have now a foundation that is not yours that you can build upon from the clip. But with Westbrook, it's like, what is the realistic path to building a winning team around him? Are you getting Bradley Beale for some of the picks that you got? In addition to other assets? Unrealistic. Billy Donovan reunion.

Are you going for Kevin Love? Is he going to really elevate Russell Westbrook with the UCLA reunion? I don't think so. Also, if you weren't going to be able to afford George Adams and Westbrook, how are you going to afford to pay love? Maybe Blake Griffin, more L.A. guys meeting up. Oklahoma. Yeah, right. And like the pistons probably aren't dealing him.

So I think the reasonable thing to do is to at least explore the market for also Westbrook and see what you can get and then go full rebuild. Charks, there's a way that Oklahoma City can fashion a narrative out of this that sounds like, basically like we're going to do the best that we can to put Westbrook in a winning position. He's given so much to this organization. We're at a different place now. He still has a lot to give a team. We're going to try and send him somewhere where he can be valuable.

Do you think that that's what we're going to see in the coming weeks? I mean, whatever they can sell to the fans. I'm always been a big SGA guy the guy that got from the Clippers Shea Gilles Alexander I think he has legit all-star potential I love that trade just for that piece I think you give Shea the keys you start over

And that's a building block Could he still reaches potential playing in a back court With Westbrook He's a point guard No no no Not the best habits probably to learn either No definitely I think for you know Shea like you've loved him in the draft

And like he's somebody who in year one Improved constantly on the offensive And the floor making steady progress And his defense is already really, really good for a rookie. And that's something you can't say for it. And he's so smart for a rookie. He never makes mistakes. He takes her to the ball so well, takes good shots.

Yes. And he's huge. And so for Oklahoma City, it's the type of thing where it's like, you have a point guard now that you can replace him and facilitate development of whatever other young players that you got in return for Russell Westbrook. So for them, I think you have a foundation to build upon now with the picks, with Gildes of Alexander. And then Gowanari as well, he's a veteran player on an expiring contract.

whether you keep him through the year or try to flip him, you'd have some solid players here. It's just not going to be like total garbage. I mean, Gallo's a guy on the right team make a huge difference. He'll probably get moved to. Gallup gets you something really nice for a turn. I mean, you could put together a package of Shay and Gallo, and it meets Beal's salary.

If the Thunder thought that they could still get in the mix and replace Beal with George, which I don't necessarily think takes them out of any of the luxury tax concerns that the team had, I guess the thing that's going to be interesting is whether or not they send up the white flag and say everything except for Shea is pretty much for sale here.

Or are they going to try and say, no, we want to maintain a competitive team. We want to try and be competitive. We maybe want to even try to entice Westbrook to stay. I mean, they got him for like, what, four or five more years? Not really much of a concern. No, I mean, but that,

but like, fuck, they had Paul George for two years and apparently all it took was one phone call for him and Aaron Mintz to convince Presti. He needed to be traded to the clippers. And also, by the way, it wouldn't be the first time there were rumblings, at least, that Russell Westbrook would potentially want out after Kevin Durant left that July in 2016, there was at least a little bit of quiet noise that maybe Russell Westbrook before signing that contract. He took the bag, though, right? He did take it. Exactly.

But now it's the type of thing where if there is no path to add a Bradley Beal and have a chance of, you know, making some noise in the postseason, maybe at that point, Russ is like, you know what? I do want to go somewhere else. The problem is, is, like, how many homes is there for Russell Westberg? So few teams need a point guard. So few teams have the assets or the salaries to put together a package for a $40 million point guard, who, by the way, you know, is like really, really good. Yeah. But Russell Westbrook has some serious flaws in his game.

I'm not sure he's the guy at his age when he's about to be the wrong side of 30 that you want to invest a whole bunch of assets. And so how much is really out there for Westbrook? Kevin, I'm glad you asked because that's the next topic I want to talk about is what the Westbrook market is. but John, did you have a point? I was going to say, like, what star is like, I got to call Russ? I got to get Ross on my team. Well, George was 18 months ago. Like, last year.

And that didn't last very long. There's got to be guys. Are there guys who think that one Westman's in? There's got to be guys. Russell Westbrook is a huge name. Yeah. And he's a really good player. It's like, that's the thing where like a lot of basketball media or basketball

Twitter is like, oh, it's so inefficient. He sucks. Like Westbrook's an icon. Like, I'm not even speaking as a valid Russ fan. And I could give a shit. He misses every shot he takes. I still like watching a play. Do you think Kauai would be like, man, I want to wrestle on my team to hold the ballroom?

Maybe not Kauai. No, but Kauai, we're going to get to Kauai, the GM because he might be like the second or third best GM in the NBA. No doubt. Kauai is a, oh my goodness. I just think that like Westbrook carries sway, and I think also Westbrook Carey sway with a younger generation of guys too. No doubt.

Who grew up watching him. We're entering league or have just entered the league. So it's something definitely to keep an eye on. There are a couple of places out there. And look, now we have to sort of change our thinking about transactions because I think what we've seen with Miami and Butler, what we've seen with the what the clippers were able to do here. You can't just look at it as like,

and I think you mentioned this last night, Kevin. You just don't think about cap space. Think about what you can do. Don't worry about the cap space. Because you can find cap space. You can clear cap space. You can get somebody to take your crap if you need to open up that space

if you're willing to sweeten the deal enough. Now, I think that the team that makes the most sense on a kind of personality basis, on like a soul recognizing its counterpoint way is Miami. I think that Westbrook as a warrior athlete who competes every single night, I think that he would fit in that culture, right? Now, I'm not saying he's necessarily their cup of tea

in terms of like his shot selection or, you know, some of the mistakes he makes towards the end of the game. But this is a guy who's played his entire professional career for the Thunder with two coaches with Billy Donovan and Scott Brooks. So we don't know what he would look like in a spolster system. And I think that that kind of player is the kind of player that Pat Riley would want to bring in. But see, Chris, here's my question.

Jimmy just forces his way out of Minnesota, forces way out of Philadelphia, gets to be the man, he gets to run point. Now he wants to bring another point guard to take the ball away from him. I feel like Jimmy wouldn't go for that. I think so, for sure. Jimmy wanted to live in Miami with his buddies.

But he also gets to be the man there instead of having Simmons and B. I think that's a little bit less. I think Jimmy just wanted to be in Miami. But like, yeah. And I think both of you could be right. at the same time. Like, Butler, Butler has shown himself

to be pre-McUrial when it comes to his mood. Like, he can be all in on a project and then lose interest in a project and make a lot of problems. That's probably what would end up happening. It's like he'd be super excited

with Russell Westbrook. I don't, I don't think there would be any doubt in his eyes about joining forces with Russ. For saying about that over time, then that would settle in where it's like, oh, this isn't going to work. It'd be a two alpha,

set of the three alphas. Yeah, right. Now, what could Miami put together? Well, a package of Drogich, James Johnson and Justice Winslow works. With a bunch of future picks. And yeah, I don't even know what Miami still has in the cupboard, but I think that you basically, I have the idea of like...

I guess, well, could they make, do they have any picks to trade? They already are giving out their 2021 and their 2023. So the soonest they could be able to pick is a pick swap in 2020. Okay, so if you were at the thunder, you basically get off Dragach and Johnson, I think next year, maybe Johnson's two years. And then you have Winslow who is, you know, a well-regarded player who you could put next to Gilgis Alexander.

Bam, at a bio in there too. You could get Bam and Winslow? That would be a great dress. And that way, it's like, you just strip it down. You're saying, like, we're starting over, we're getting money coming off the books. If you can hear sounds in the background. That's just the sounds of Vegas, man. Chris has a lot of fans who fall around.

I heard them at 3.30 a.m. Yeah. I'm not expected to sleep very well today. But here's, you know, and I think that, so there's Miami, right? And I think we all agree that Miami would culturally be a fit for Westbrook. I could seem really thriving in a heat uniform. I think that Miami Heat fans would love him.

There's another option here. And that's the Charlotte Hornet. Oh, my gosh. It's a franchise that's reeling with the loss of Kimball Walker, are tied up with a bunch of bad contracts, probably are not a free agent destination. Sell some tickets. Kind of stuck in neutral.

Needed to have some maybe some name value. They love it in Vegas. They love my fake trades. I'm saying that you can make this happen for Kid Gilchrist, Beambo, and Marvin Williams. And then you sweeten that pot with picks, if necessary. Malik Monk. Could you get like Miles Bridges for him?

I would probably do Malik or something like that if I was if I was Cupchack or whatever. But let's just say you'd send that package. They get the last shot at the Michael Kid Gilchrist Reclamation project. You get Beambo and Marvin coming off the books. And then you get Jump Man. I think that's the main thing, Jump Man, yeah. Getting one of their signature athletes playing for Michael Jordan's team. What's your reaction to that?

I mean, they can compete for the six, seven, eight seat again. Yeah. Sell some tickets, man. Heck yeah. Get those two playoff games of revenue. Maybe it might come to the games, watch for us. Yeah, I think for Charlotte it makes a ton of sense. You get off those contracts, bring in a new face of the franchise.

And like for Charlotte, had they re-signed Kimba Walker, there was a path for them to create cap space in 21 and 22. And maybe, like, you don't sign anybody because it's Charlotte. But with Russell Westbrook, maybe, you know, you're in a position where a guy wants to go play with him. I don't know. Like, having a star there, the hardest thing to find is a superstar. But he can lure a second star there. I love that for Charlotte.

That makes sense for them. Yeah. I mean, other than that, the deals are few and far between for someone with Westbrook's price tag. I mean, this is the same thing that we're talking about with Blake Griffin. If John Wall were even still at his, maybe not peak, but we're in like the end of his prime. and hadn't suffered some of catastrophic injuries. I still think that Wall would have come with the same difficulties of moving him because of his contract. Am I right?

Like, I think that that's sort of the big deal here with the Supermax guys. What about the Knicks, though? What about the Knicks? Like, who could the Knicks? What kind of package? They have plenty of cap space. No, they,

well, not now. It would be December 15th they could. Okay. So they would have to, that would have to wait. So if they wanted to, you mean if they were going to trade? For us. Yeah. Okay.

So, like, what would the package be? Something with all the guys. Bobby Portis and like Alonzo Treer. Pine Night Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox maybe, one pick, I don't know. They can make a package pretty easily. I think New York would be interesting. Right? I mean, you have Russ in a big market with a star.

Yeah, I mean, for them, like, I know they want to build for 2020-1. Maybe Russ can be part of that. But we've seen a star in hand as important for other stars to come. Yeah. You've got that first star there. Yeah. If I'm then on building slow, if I'm any team of building slow, not training for us. Well, I think it'd be good for your guy RJ to learn from Russ.

Really learn Russ's approach to the game. Oh, my gosh. The team that stand out to me is Minnesota. Their new general manager, Gerson Rossas, said in an interview somewhere today, how they're not done trying to build. They're going to continue to be aggressive. Wiggins. So after missing out on D'Angelo Russell, maybe you can find a new home for Andrew Wiggins with a whole bunch of draft picks. They have all of their future picks intact.

And like pairing Carl Anthony Towns maximizing his window, his incoming prime with Russell Westbrook. They're one of the teams where there's very few teams that if I'm the general manager, would want to trade for Russell Westbrook, but if I'm the Minnesota Timberwolves, when they're giving up Andrew Wiggins just as Albatross contract, with Russell Westbrook, at least you get a real shot with him in towns. Like that pick and roll combination could be deadly. I think worth pointing out, so Westbrook's never had a stretch five like that. Westbrook needs a stretch five.

That actually is super interesting. If you're the Timberwolves, though, if you're Gerson, do you, would you prefer Westbrook or DeAngelo or DeAngelo? I'd take DeAngelo. Yeah, it's all gone. And him and Cat are like really good friends, too, which is nice. It's all gone now. though.

You don't think that they can get back in a DeAngelo trade auction if they... Maybe if they had like Kohl for a Kogi and some picks. Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? Fascinating.

Okay. So the Westbrook market, it remains to be seen how real it is or how Oklahoma, frankly, is going to react. They haven't come out and said, okay, we're like, this is the deal for our fans who bought season tickets.

Expect some hard times in the coming years. There are one team town in pro sports. They'll come to the games. So I think I agree with you, but it is interesting. to consider the fact that this has been a pretty much since what 2010 they've been really competitive you know they've been in and around they've had some huge names in town they've lost three of them now and they are on the verge of possibly losing the fourth and probably the most iconic player in franchise history

do you feel like that shakes this franchise at all i mean what do you do with a market like oklahoma actually i have some takes about this is a texas guy so oklahoma there's kind of a victim mentality they have Like people, oh, they're not giving us enough credit. They're always hating on UT. And it's like, you know what? They'll probably like, you know what? No one's giving us credit. The stars don't like us.

We have chip on our shoulder. Let's get in like T.J. McConnell. They would love that in Oklahoma. They'll be fine. Yeah, I mean, you think about this last year and a half. Last two seasons, definitely this last season, though, for the Clippers. I think this is one of the best years for a Clippers fan in quite a while. I know, like, from talking to Isaac Lee and other people I know who like the Clippers,

it's like this gritty team that was fun to watch that had hope. what's really fun in the NBA is like having hope to root for. Like you can have star players, but sometimes you can have star players and you can have no hope moving forward, whether it's for a championship, whatever your goals are. But with a young team, Oklahoma City could still put fans in the seats with Chegillis Alexander

and whatever they were to get for Ross and whatever. Draft picks they make and all the possibilities that they would have with their picks, that is something to root for and something to get excited about. What they have now with Westbrook is a team that's going to continue to flame out. And then, by the way, this team might not even make the postseason. season. The team has currently constantly with Gall and Ari and everybody. No doubt. So it's like this team was

barely made the postseason last year. And now they lost their best player in Paul George. Right now this is a team that doesn't have a lot of paths to having a fun times or any success or whatever you want to call it. Gallo could give them some interesting. Until it gets hurt 40 games

in. Okay, fair enough. I mean, I love Gallo. He had a good year last year. I know, but he's still only played like 60-ish games. I love Gallo and I I mean, it's just a shame. He's gotten her because he's been so good ever since he was with Denver. He had a great year last year for... There's so few guys who were six foot 10

who can run pick and roll and... See, I'm saying to me, like, you send Gallo to, like, Portland or something like that. That's really interesting. I think Gallo could really actually shake the balance of power more than one of us. He's one of those pieces. Really? Because he can help a good team. He's one of those pieces.

He fits in her anywhere. Bradley Beal, Danilo Gallinari, Kevin Love, one of these guys that a team in this wide open league is going to be like, he's the piece. Yeah, he's like the piece. Yeah, he's like the good version of mirror titch. Yeah, exactly. He's the, like, the cockier, more athletic, better. Did get him in Milwaukee? He'd be killing it. And he's on expiring contracts and no long-term commitment. Right.

So there's the bonus there in that. You mentioned the clippers and the high life that they're living. Apparently, as I mentioned, Kauai essentially conducted an orchestra while we weren't looking. While we had no idea. What a gangster, man. Basically, after taking some calls from magic, asking some questions about Polinka. This is all in reports and various places from Ramona Shelburne, L.A. Times. A bunch of people have been talking about this over the last 24 hours. Well, really only 12 hours because we did the podcast last night. It feels like it's been like three days. It's like a week.

But, you know, basically that Kauai was running like almost a counterintelligence operation against the Lakers where he was moving meetings from El Sagano to Westlake. And first it was just going to be Jeannie. But then it was Jeannie and Rob Polinka and that it was a respectful two-hour meeting. but that Kauai barely talked. And all the while, he's meeting with Paul George and some other location to sort of orchestrate this whole thing. And Aaron Mintz then goes to San Presti and says,

this is what we want to do. Can you make it happen? He's a Kauai Sosei right there, man. Making all the moves. I mean, I'm blown away by the precision. And, you know, as I was going to sleep last night, I was just sort of thinking about how the, like, the Clippers, I think I underrated the Clippers last night when we did the podcast.

I think I was like, I had not yet considered the fact that they've got basically two guys at every position. Yeah. Yeah. I think for them, it's the type of thing. Like last night, I mentioned the depth early on the podcast. And you're like, no, it's about the stars here. But it's also about the depth. It's like what they built, the infrastructure that they had, the Clippers had a team that could be good for a long time without Coislander.

If he goes to Toronto, stays in Toronto or goes to the Lakers, Clippers are going to be a nice team for quite a while. But adding the two stars to that core, they gave up everything. in their future with all their picks. But all the present stuff, yeah. They already have so much with their mixture of youth, shamit, Jerome Robinson, and Montres Harrell, who has one year left on his deal, with the veterans that they have on team-friendly contracts.

The Clippers are one of the most enviable franchises the league before getting Kawhiwai Ler. I think they're the favorites now. I think they're the favorites. I mean, looking at that roster, I was just stunned. And I thought about what a, just what a gut punch it must have been for so many GM, so many franchises out there, not just the Lakers who were apparently were blindsided by,

obviously the not necessarily even the move to the clippers as much as the orchestration of bringing George to the clippers with him. Apparently, according to the Los Angeles Times, according to one person familiar with their thinking there being the Lakers, they had no idea that the Clippers and Raptors were attempting to trade for George to give Leonard his desired teammate. That's a really tough beat. You also look at teams like Utah, Denver, the Lakers, you know, teams that must have been feeling pretty good about themselves heading into next season.

Houston, maybe even Dallas in some extent, like teams that were like, but I mean, teams that were probably fired up for the season to begin and we're feeling really good about a wide open league, especially if Kauai stayed in Toronto and Paul George was on the thunder and they were looking at a world where maybe two stars was enough in the Western Conference or a really

good, deep, well-rounded team was enough. And now, you know, I think that the clippers have to be considered the prohibitive favorites. And because of that depth, what we were talking about last night was like the Lakers wanted to add that third star because they need to distribute the load among LeBron and Anthony Davis

because otherwise you're going to be asking for so much from these two guys. Well, they did get Alex Caruso. Oh, that's right. They've got a lot of star in there. We're going to book the parade for L.A. no matter what. We just don't know what colors it's going to be in.

But what do you guys think about the state of the Western Conference in general now after having some time to digest the clips? I go back to. I'm looking at big picture. You're in a playoff series. Who can guard Kauai and Paul George? You could like Denver, Utah, Houston.

There's no big wings in those teams. They got two of those guys. then for the clippers, they can play multiple ways. You can play with your traditional big with Zubots against the yokichs of the world. You can have your rim running guy who's a little bit more switchable on Harold. If they re-signed Jim Michael Green, they can play small if they want to. The Clippers can play any single way that they want to. Lou Williams, third option.

The Clippers are one of those teams that can dictate the way in which the opponent puts lineups on the floor, or they can react accordingly to whatever another team is doing. I don't even see a thing they need on this roster. Like, what's the missing piece they even need to bring in? There's not much. It's ridiculous. Yeah, it's hard to imagine unless some sort of like catastrophic front line injury rash hits them or something like that. And as we've seen, like those guys like Greg Monroe's of the world are around.

Like they could probably go find somebody like that at some point during the season and bring in a veteran. I guess, you know, I'm just blown away by the precision with which they were able to move in such a short period of time. But I'm still trying to wrap my head around how. and how did this Paul George trade specifically happen? What was the, I know that it's basically, it almost reminds me of the Darren Williams trade when the jazz traded Darren Williams out of nowhere to Brooklyn or New Jersey at the time,

I believe to, and it was basically like out of nowhere, middle of the night, and it was like Utah was never going to have as much leverage as they did at that point before the story got out that Darren Williams wanted to leave Utah. So they struck when no one else, was out there saying like, oh, well, this guy wants to leave anyway, so I'll give you like 50 cents on the dollar for him. So Oklahoma City took advantage of that same kind of trying to turn a crisis into an opportunity situation.

But at the same time, I'm just not sure I understand what was like, what was the motivation to do this deal and and help Leonard set up his super team in the same conference. What I'm thinking is, OKC and Lugge retaxed the last two years has paid like incredible amounts of money. In the 40s, right? No owner for the next five years going to pay that much luxury tax for a first round loss team. It's just not practical. At some point, you've got to cut the budget.

I think they're like, okay, we've got to start over because it's too expensive for an average team. It's pretty obvious for them. It's like, yeah, this is a team that has a ceiling with Russell Westbrook as the best player on the team or one of the two best players in the team. So I think the incentive was this just massive haul that they got.

Giljust Alexander is a really, really bright end point guard who's already good on defense and getting better on offense. then we talked about Gallinari who they can flip already and all the picks. I think it was reported last night that they had no choice. They had a choice and they chose

to take the asset. They chose the path where they can rebuild, cut costs, and play this out slow and build something up again. It's almost like they got a way out of this team. This whole situation gave them a way out. Yeah, I think that they have

traditionally had a different kind of kind of vibe to that franchise where I think that that you thought, like, even though they did do a lot of moves and make a lot of moves and had a lot of roster turnover, there was a sort of an assumption. I think I kind of blindly assumed that they were just going to keep running into the wall with Westbrook until Westbrook retired. You know what I mean? So it's sort of crazy to imagine them having like a long look in the mirror and be like, this is it. This is as good as we're going to be with this roster. And when we say

this roster, we know we mean Westbrook. And obviously Westbrook and his agent see that too. Well, remember who processed first. It was Sam Presti in Seattle. He dumped Richard Lewis and Ray Allen and went ground zero, got four five picks. He's done it before. Yeah, it's different now in today's league with the new lottery odds. So granted they didn't have a number one pick, you know, besides KD going second. For them, yeah, it just makes total sense to me.

To me, it's like, it's not even a conversation. It's like, yes, you should explore rebuilding by trading Russell Westberg. The question is going to be what is actually out there for him? Yes. Is there something that is worth. blowing it up here. There may not be. They may find that there's not a market for Westbrook. Because as you mentioned earlier, even if John Wall were healthy, it's the salary that makes him hard to move. It's the same as that conversation now with Westbrook. Is there a team out

there that isn't a position where they need a point card? There's not a lot of teams to do. Is there a team that is desperate enough to trade for a guy that's his age, making the money that he does and that has shown that his runway runs out at some point in the postseason? Is there a team out there? Minnesota may be sharp. Charlotte, Miami. There's not many. The danger of trading for Russell, trading Russell Westbrook to Miami is if you make Miami good for the next

four years, that impacts your pick value that you got from L.A. because a couple of those picks belong to Miami, right? And that's the thing is, like, I hear what you're saying about you had to do it because this is such an incredible hall and it kind of eclipses what the Lakers gave

the Pelicans for Anthony Davis. But on the other hand, those picks could be in the 15 to 20s to 25 range in the next few years. And I know that we're going to get a double draft. We're going to start seeing more kids coming into the league in the years to come. And these picks extend all the way to like, what, 2026 or whatever. So by that point, presumably the Clippers will have probably slowed down their machine a little bit. But what happens to your franchise, though, if Paul George is like hell bent to Sam Amick's original report that he wanted LA,

if Paul George is hell bent on going to the Clippers, what happens to your franchise? when you're like, no, we're not trading you. And then him and Russell Westbrook are having conversations. Do they just, you know, get past this? Maybe they do. And maybe you go into the season and you flame out in the first round again. And everything's fine. You're selling playoff tickets and fans are filling seats.

But maybe not. Maybe there's an issue that arises here from Paul George one year after committing to Oklahoma City wanting to bounce. And maybe you're running into an issue here where the closer his free agency comes. He can become a free agent in 2021. His value diminishes. in this trade, which is just outrageous. It's the biggest return ever for a superstar ever. That's not going to be there.

So I think they had to do it now. And it was the right choice to make. I think the other thing, if you're trying to move around on this team, you can't move Stephen Adams, really. I mean, you can't move Dennis Schrooter. There's not many movable contracts. 52 million for the next two years for Adams.

Nobody wants Schrooter for 17 million million. They were really boxed in. I think with George, so after his first series, like, okay, we had Melo, didn't work, year two. My shoulder. Yeah, he's like, And in year two, he's like, ah, this team isn't going to get it done. Like, I feel like...

I don't even know if it was bad. Charks, I think it was also like Kauai called. Yeah, when Kauai called, you got to listen. This is one thing that, one of the things that we need to, like, really get accustomed to. And I think even the finals, and this is maybe more of a statement about how we can sometimes be distracted more by the off court stuff than the on court stuff. But whatever you, if you didn't learn in the finals that Kauai Leonard is the best player in the league, you're learning it now that he's one of the most powerful.

Because this is a guy who got his way. out of San Antonio with what two seasons left on his deal or a full season left on his deal and sat for most of the season before that. And then was traded out of San Antonio to Toronto. Won a frigging NBA title in Toronto. Took his free agency, sign with the Clippers and orchestrated a deal for another guy who had two years left on his deal. Who seemed happy as a clam a couple weeks ago and was like, I love Russ.

Everything's fine. We're going to give it another shot. I was injured. Tough break. And last summer was smoking cigars in Oklahoma City, and it was Paul George Day, and he was, he was Jack to be there. Kauai was able to pry that guy loose. The Clippers could have signed Paul George last summer, you know, to say nothing of the Lakers could have signed Paul George last summer. I can't get over the fact that, like, we're now in a world where, like, two years left on a deal is essentially a pre-free agency.

Yeah, we're never, you're never pre or post-free agency. You're always in flux now. That's just the way where we live in. And you said in your piece, John, like you were like, oh, the playboy. The playbook, it's LeBron's playbook from 2014. Man, I think we should start calling it the Kauai Playbook. He did it better. You know, I mean, the Kauai playbook is, if you don't like your situation, there's

always something you can do about it. It's basically the player version of what we were saying about it. If you don't like your cap space, there's always something you can do about it. Sure. I mean, there's always ways to create cap space by trading assets in order to create it. It's like, it's just not easy all the time. It's like you want to be flexible and have tradable salaries. You don't want to have albatrosses that you want to flip.

But if you have them, you can. And, like, that's what we might find out with a team like the Minnesota Timberwolves. You have Andrew Wiggins. It was a mistake signing in for the money you did. But an opportunity arises and maybe you're able to get Russell Westbrook. Who knows? I think, if you talk about the playbook, the next guy I read is that Janus. Like, who does Janus want to play with?

Janus, come play with Luca and Dallas. It'd be perfect. Yeah, it's, you know, it's... We got your brother on the team. It's funny with Janus, it's like the decisions that they made this summer. They're sort of locked into this now. It's like they box themselves into this team. That felt very LeBron-ish.

the way that Janice was like, I want this team to come back. You know, he let it be known. Maybe that was like his public stance and maybe his private stance was a little bit more malleable, but he let it be known that he wanted to run it back.

He couldn't be happy about losing Brogden. Which, I mean, you wrote about him as one of the biggest signings of the summer with Indiana. Like that bad court with Victor Olatipo, that's Milwaukee's lost now. And Brogden was maybe the second best player on that team for large portions of the season

and definitely during the playoffs. You know what it kind of feels like? Kind of feels like Kauai's LeBron and Janice is KD. How so? So Janice just lost as big players, his Hardin and Brogden.

Kauai went to the super team in L.A. instead of Miami. Now Yonah's got to beat Kauai in the finals. In two years, maybe lose to Kauai two times in the early.

He's like, I got to get another asset. Well, I mean, like, you better, if I were the Milwaukee Bucks, I would really hope to at least get to the finals

next year. Because if you lose to a Sixers or Celtics or somehow a Brooklyn or somebody in the playoffs, and you have another really good regular season under Buttonholzer

that everybody feels good about, you lose again in the playoffs. That, look, like, you might say that we're being alarmist. What's alarmist in the NBA? See, I think they're the favorite someone that East, Milwaukee, right now.

I'd pick Philly. Really? Simmons over Yannis. And not Simmons over Yannis. I think it would have to be. And, you know, Al Horford and so on and so forth. I feel like it's going to be Simmons. I don't know.

Did you see Zeyer Smith today? I'm running on him soon, Chris. I have some Zeyer Smith takes for you. Yeah, I mean, we got Thuybal and Smith. You get to just bring us the rings. Philly has both. I mean, I really. like Thibel. I think they have...

I'm like, trust me. I'm getting a thibble tattoo on my face. Philly has a star power and the depth. Milwaukee has Janus and pretty deaf. I mean, who's in a close gangster Philly though when it comes down to it? We'll find out over time. When you think the vibe is in the east, we talked about how the Western Conference and maybe a team like Utah, maybe team like Denver was like, we felt

so good about ourselves a week ago. They should feel good though. Like the Clippers are the favorite, but you mentioned that they're prohibited of favorite. I don't, I wouldn't go that far. They're the favorite in my eyes. And, you know, I'd pick them to win the finals today. But the margin is not so significant whether this is like Hampton's Five Warriors or Hedels. Like they are favorites, but not so far away that the gap is so significant that you need two injuries to have any hope.

To me, with the matchups for Houston and Utah, typically, it really hurts them because they're such small perimeter teams. Houston starts PJ Tucker at the four, hardened to the three, Eric Goren to two. They're tiny competitors. Is it too early for matchups? It's all about matchups, it's a playoffs. I know, but they're not done building. It's only in July. And Houston and guys can do.

What could Houston do to get? I think for them, like, they've already shown that they want another star. Yeah. So it's like if Bradley Beale is somebody who somehow becomes available, you're going to try to go for him. You're going to try to go for the next guy. Do you think Beale's available? No, he's not. I don't understand that.

They just need to give Tommy Shep for the job. I thought he had it. I mean, he's the interim. Yeah. I mean, if you're in the Eastern Conference right now, yeah, like I think that there's a, there's an air of excitement. I think that there was the idea that the East could be the New West. It was the new power conference. It had all this interesting star power.

Durant's going to be there next year. He's going to be hanging out in Brooklyn this year getting better. Got Kyrie back in Brooklyn, Kemba in Boston, Philly retooled, Milwaukee looks. I just think Milwaukee Philly is going to be an awesome driver. That's exciting. I'm psyched to watch it. I just think I'm just kind of like wondering whether or not we've got ourselves.

A new dominant force. But KOC is talking me down off the ledge a little bit here. I mean, they're going to be great. Great. Yeah. They're really awesome. They're probably going to be the one seed. But I don't think they're so far removed from Utah, another team that has star power,

but also has, like, really strong depth, too. Well, one of the- things I wanted to end on before I let you guys go is, like, let's talk a little bit about the Lakers who, who signed KCP late last night, re-uped Rondo today. The band is back together. And brought in, oh, re-uped Alex Caruso. Shosh-Cruz. And then finally brought in DeMarcus cousins, who apparently was,

garnering interest from Miami, but Anthony Davis recruited to cousins to come to Los Angeles. Interesting. So the Lakers remain super talented. They have two of the best six players in the league.

So do the Clippers. It makes Los Angeles pretty much the center of the basketball university. Maybe Paul George is top 10. How about that? Two of the best two-way players. For the Lakers,

does this deal somehow, does the George Leonard deal somehow signal the like truly the last act of LeBron's career that he wasn't able to get either of these guys. I don't think so. He's still got Anthony Davis. Yeah, you got Anthony Davis. Like you said, they have two of the top players in the game. I think for the Lakers, that's one of the reasons why I'm not saying the Clippers are prohibited favors. That's true. That's a fair point. That's a fair point. That's a fair point. Anthony Davis here. A.D., like forget about last season. He was a legitimate MVP caliber candidate the year before.

And LeBron James, like, I think some of the talk about him, like, being, declining significantly is ridiculous. He's still in an unbelievable season playing 50-ish games. LeBron James in the postseason is ultimately all that matters. For the Lakers, getting into the playoffs, great. They're going to be a postseason team with these two stars. It's about what are these guys doing the playoffs? And when you're trimming the rotation to six, seven, eight guys,

you have two of the best players in the world on their team. And we'll see what they add over the course of the year. If they're able to add other guys who are ring chasing over the course of the year, to get waived. What happens, the Eguodala? Is Memphis unable to trade him? And at some point,

are they forced to wave him? Who really knows how the year develops? These teams are incomplete right now. So it's hard to talk about what's going to happen in the playoffs and how matchups are because these teams are going to change. Injuries are going to happen. Guys are going to force their way out of a new team. So for the Lakers, though, what they do have is two of the top guys in the game.

And, like, they are still a championship contending team. It doesn't matter what the Clippers did. The West and the entire league is going to be just an insane dog fight. And I'm stoked. To me, I'm more excited for the NBA season than I was yesterday morning. Yeah, of course. I mean, like, it's going to be just absolutely awesome. Because you still have, I mean, you have a, while the Clippers are maybe in the lead now,

you still have the Lakers, you still have a Blazers team that must be feeling good about themselves. You have a Utah team that, well, two weeks ago, we were like Utah might be the favorite for the Western Conference right now, a Denver team that has to be feeling good about themselves. A Houston team that has James Hardin, who's come in, whatever, top two of the last, last three MVP's and won once. You know, I feel like we have such an incredible embarrassment of riches and this is the great thing about, like,

just a little bit of league parity. I'm so glad not against the Lakers, but I'm just really excited that he didn't go to the Lakers, the Kaua didn't go to Lakers, and kind of make the regular season into a dress rehearsal. Even the perception of that potential super team, even if they had a weaker bench,

weaker core, alongside their big three, the perception of them having those three stars would have just changed the way we view this season. Yeah. And the one thing I dealt back on, talking about Anthony Davis, his playoff numbers are insane.

He's only played in the playoffs twice, played the Warriors both times. And the one non-warriors series, he absolutely demolished the Blazers. Really? Yeah. I mean, he just destroyed them. And like,

you think about the Clippers, like, who's going to guard Anthony Davis? No one guards Anthony Davis. That's the great thing. It's going to be awesome. All these questions answered. I was going to ask maybe about some of these teams that are so far removed from, from this conversation,

a team like the Spurs kind of making some marginal moves today. Davos Burthans being shipped to Washington. Marcus Morris. And they signed Marcus Morris and reworked DeMari Carroll's deal so that it's now a three or $21 million deal. So the Spurs seem like a pretty good team in 2009 now,

I guess. I mean, they need more guys who can shoot mid-range jumpers. They've got to double down on that. And the Spurs are another team that's interesting to me because we're talking about like guys of Gallinari and Beal, these players, Kevin Love. if the spurs are like the nine or 10 seed in February,

do they think about trading Aldridge or De Rosen? Like those are other guys who could become available. I mean, would they think about trading Alder's and DeRosen on Monday. Yeah. That's what I mean. It's like these teams, like the Lakers could always flip some of the guys are signing now down the line.

The rockets are going to have options. Like these teams are going to change continuously. Portland, it's like you have Hassan White, White Sides, 20 plus million dollar contracts that can be used for Kevin Love or whoever comes available. So there's going to be another big move that happens during the course of the year. It's just a matter of when and to which team.

Any closing thoughts, jerks on the studio things? I'm excited, man. L.A. versus L.A., Milwaukee versus Philly? It's going to be awesome. Who's the one guy you guys can't wait to watch in Summer League right now? Zaire Smith excluded. I watched a little bit of them today, Taco Fall. He was awesome, man.

The crowd was going crazy. It was fantastic. He's just so damn big. Ziland Cheatim from the New Orleans Pelicans as well. last night. I love me some Zion, Cheatham. Okay.

What about you, Sharks? I'm going to give a shout out of Kosses out of Akumpo. He had a really impressive first game. Okay. And he's part of the

Mads recruiting pitch, 2021, baby. Yeah, I mean, they tried it with Boogie's brother. Jilal cousins, yeah. Brother or cousin?

Brother. Like that. Cousin cousins? Yeah, Jaliel cousins. They tried with him. Didn't work out. But I think Kosses can actually

play, though. So you can have Anza de Kupa brothers in Dallas. Yonis and Luca, baby. It starts here. Okay. Thanks for joining us for this incredibly intimate podcast in my hotel room.

Thanks to Craig. Thanks to Kevin. Thanks to Charks. You can read these guys and listen to these guys throughout the next couple of weeks as we continue to sort of take a temperature of the league. And we'll be back with you guys real soon on the random podcast network.