The Ringer NBA Show - Personal Apologies to Anthony Davis, Trouble in Atlanta With Sam Amick | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

Logan and Raja discuss Anthony Davis’s historic stretch over the past 10 games and what it means for the Lakers’ title hopes (2:00). Later, Sam Amick, senior writer for The Athletic, joins the show to talk about his story on Trae Young’s decision to not play Friday after a disagreement with his head coach, Nate McMillan (30:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Sam Amick Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, this is Rob Harvilla from 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, the world's greatest loopy and perverse and inaccurately named music nostalgia podcast. We're doing 90 songs now because there's too many songs. Pearl Jam, JZ, Jewel, YouTube, Cher, Hootie. These are just some of the names people yell at me on the internet because we're back. More great songs, more rad special guests, more loopy perversity. Join us once more on 60 Songs That Explain the 90s every Wednesday on Spotify. What's popping?

Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bill here. We have a lot to talk about today. It's honestly, I think this might be one of our like, you know, action-packed pods of the early season. There's a lot going on after this Sunday. How you doing? I'm well, sir.

I'm well. I feel like I know where this is going. I feel like I should get out in front of this. But I'm going to let you go ahead and tee it up. And then I will have some apologies to make. We have some reassessments to look at. as I've always said, the beauty of an NBA season or any season where you're playing more than one damn game is shit changes, man.

And when shit changes, opinions can change. What's wrong with that? Are we hedging right now? Are we hedging? I mean, yeah, it's not a hedge. It is a, it is a, when you come on, right, like for all of the people, I love this. It doesn't, I don't, I'm not really in our comments a lot. although I did have a dude send me on,

and I don't know your name, sir, forgive me. He sent me a beautiful like montage of this two, they call the Charge King. He sent it to me on Instagram. I really appreciated that. So like I'll open a DM and stuff like that. I like interacting, but I ain't in the comments and stuff.

But I see a lot of people skewer, like NFL analysts and NBA analysts and stuff like that for having an opinion on something that like maybe three months from now doesn't really play itself out. And my thing is like when you come on and you ask an opinion, it's for that moment in time, right? Like, it's for what's happening now. And listen, all you could do if you're worth your salt is when things change, reassess and give another opinion. We ain't even got to the subject yet.

We didn't even got to the subject. Like I said, like I said, I could see this coming. I want to be out in front of it. All right. We do. Okay, let's just start it off right here. We put dirt on this man's name all to be. getting into the season. We were wondering if he would ever show up, if he would ever do his thing,

if he would ever come back. Anthony Davis, ladies and gentlemen. Okay, Anthony Davis, all right. Let me just, let me just, let me just, let me just throw some numbers. Fifty-five and seventeen against the Wizards, which was, we will get to that game in particular, but I want to give out some more numbers. Thirty-five points, Raja, 15.6 rebounds, two point seven-seven assist. That's Anthony Davis's line over the last nine games. The Lakers have won seven of those last nine games. The group chat is popping, okay? Figueroa is buzzing.

The Lakers are 10 and 12, but it doesn't matter because Anthony Davis is back and at a historic level. Let's go to, let's talk about the WIS game first. We got to talk about other games in this stretch, how this works, what this means for the Lakers, yada, yada, yada, yada. But when you saw this game against the Wizards

and however capacity you saw I know it was in NFL Sunday. What did you think and what did you see from Anthony Davis? We haven't seen pre this run. The numbers were staggering. 55 and 17.

That's in a league where big numbers get put out. Like that's a big boy stat line, man. That is the numbers are, those are popping off the page. So immediately, you know, I'll record a few games and then come back and try to check them out

as my Sundays are typically pretty busy. So, you know, if they're not worth their salt and there's not something like that happening, then I'm not checking that game out. I'm just keeping it a buck. But I had to check that out. The man was just assaulting them on, he was. I mean, it looked like a physical assault of a team.

And what I appreciated was how much of it was downhill, how much of it was going at the basket, like exerting physical will on that team. That's like, you know, far too often. And it's to be excused because these huge people have these great skill sets that allow them to be able to score in an easier way, like quote unquote easier way. Sometimes you're tired, dude. Like it's easier to shoot this three.

You know, like I make threes. I knock these down. But he was punishing them was the best way for me to put it. It was a punishing 55 and 17. It was brute force. I mean, he knocked down jumpers in the lane and hit his, you know, little short rolls on the pick and roll into these pop jump shots and all of that brilliant skill level that we all know he has,

but I just appreciated how it was downhill, you know, and what tone that sets as a ball club. There was a play in the third quarter, Raja, where AD, he threw up a shot and missed it. He was in the lane. He was just the most aggressive I've probably seen AD since the bubble probably, right? He throws up a shot, misses it, gets the rebound over two defenders, and then dunks it on Porzingis. And I forgot the other person he dunked on, but he, it was, I know you know the play that I'm talking about, because I think it was a signature play of the game.

Oh, yeah. Where he dunks over two people, and the entire bench goes berserk. And that is what you want out of your. your best players, because that was the biggest takeaway that I got from, and not specifically to dunk, which was great, but what this Lakers team is when he is aggressive. You are getting other, you are, you are making sure the energy, it is so infectious throughout the entire team when he's dunking the ball. And I don't care about him shooting threes. All like, I don't care about how many he shoots. I don't care about the fadeaways he shoots. As long as he's doing it with

aggression, and he was doing everything with aggression. And there's something about when a big man, it doesn't matter what area you're in, when a big man starts running the floor and he just dunks over three people, or when he's just aggressive, it just galvanizes the entire team, and it lifts them up. And that's what AD did on Sunday. Yeah. And, you know, I've said this before. It's, and with the Lakers right now, it's a really, really tough, it's really, really tough to figure out who is actually their, their best player in terms of, like, right now at this point in their career, which one of these two is going to give us the best chance to be one A, the other one being one B.

And LeBron is quite possibly arguably the best player of all time. So I want to be clear about that and still doing things at a super high level. But it seems to me that when AD, just watching this team, A, D is acting like he's won A and is aggressive in a way where it looks like he's saying, hey, look, I got this shit. You guys compliment me. Let's go. They respond differently.

And I want to give credit because we were on here and we talked, I think we talked about, and you asked me a lot of great questions, Logan, to your credit, about, you know, what sitting back and watching can do for a player midseason. and we talked about LeBron's hiatus there. And if the Lakers were to have a chance, what had to happen? And, you know, AD had to take control of that ship and start to figure out how to become, not the 55 and 17 AD, but the two nights before that, I see Janice and he's possibly the best player in the league. And Janus does what Janus does with 40 and change, but I 44 him.

Because, you know what I mean? Like, he's wearing those pants now. that was going to be critical for that Laker team as this iteration of their club unfolds. LeBron can still be brilliant, but I really do believe that AD projecting his like alpha if there is one, because I'm going to keep it a buck.

Like I see it, but you know that it's there. You know that I know that he can do that. The question is whether that can be done consistently on a team that is vying for a championship and whether or not it's sustainable in terms of health. All those things remain to be seen. Yeah. But right now, like, that's what they needed.

LeBron came back. LeBron said, okay, dog, I see what you're doing. Like, and I'm bright enough and skilled enough and a teammate enough to still get mine, but maybe just in a little, you know, maybe let you eat just a little bit more. And I can work around the edges. I got to give a lot of credit to Darvin Ham. You know, De Ham just team. He thinkered the storm.

He didn't panic. He kept consistent messaging. He tinkered with lineups. He sold Russ on coming off the bench. I see it to me, to the naked eye, I haven't dug into all their stats this morning. It looks like their tempo is a lot better. They're getting up and down.

There's a better pace. Russ has kind of taken over. If you look at their last, I don't know. It happened probably organically when LeBron went out, but it trickled into when LeBron came back. And he's been their assist leader in a lot of those games. Like LeBron will have a game or two. And, you know, I think Dennis Schroeder led him in a game.

And AD might lead him in a game. But he's figured out how to work Russ into the equation in a way that lets Russ contribute, which was huge to their success this year. So I got to give him a lot of credit too. Darbanham's been a star over the last, you know, month in terms of figuring this out on the fly in a way that, you know, they couldn't figure out last year. I, when I saw the Lakers, what about, was opening night, so about what, a month and a half ago, I say, that wasn't a team. You know what I'm saying? It was a lot of individuals.

And it's not even a, like, it's not even a diss because it's the first week of the season, you know? Like they, but it was a lot of, but it was very disjointed, very disjointed, a lot of individual play. just a lot of like uncertainty, especially during that season. When I, you know how we are, we look at numbers, Rob, but we most importantly look at vibes, right? We look at the vibes of a team.

When I saw the Milwaukee game, which was a huge win, which was a huge win that can, that can, you know, turn around your entire season. And then I just see how their tempo was to carry that over into the Wizards game. This team looks,

like they're going in the right direction. Also, another person I got another person I got to bring up Dennis Schrooter has been a really good piece to come back, you know. You don't really think about, you know, guys like that who can really put together, you know, who can really help a team. Obviously, he's had a great career. But like putting him into this mix has been really good, just giving them an extra ball handler, somebody that can, you know, run the floor with them.

Austin Reeves is playing really well. But you brought up a really good point, Rob, when you talked about AD's matchup with Janus. And that's one of those things where AD has the talent level to be a top five player, and he is in the conversation to play. He's in the conversation with the Embedes and the Janus's and the Yokichs and all those guys. He's in that conversation. That consistently is consistency is the frustrating part. But what is what is? it like? Because it seems like

almost like an old school 90s, 80s matchup where it's like, yo, bro, it's me versus you tonight. I don't care about anything else. I don't care about on a floor with LeBron. It's going to be, the big dog is me. What did you

see against AD, what did you see AD against Janus that made you be like, whoa, this is, this is different. He's back. And this could be something more than just like a game? I mean, it wasn't,

no, it's not a physical thing for me when I'm looking at that. When you're asking me that question, Logan, and I'm sorry if that's what you're looking for. But again, what I look for in a situation like that is, is I look for your mindset. Like I could go to the fact that like, you know, Yonnas at 40 on 23 AD, you know, had the 43, but it was, you know, AD had 10 boards, Giannis had seven. Like, you know,

we could get into those type of things with the physical, but it's not really about the physical. But I do like that he's playing more physical. I believe, I've said this about Embed in the past, too, like all of these big skilled bigs, I don't begrudge them shooting the threes and doing any of that. That's not, I'm not the old curmudgeon in that way, but I do like to see, I've said this to you before, I'm a believer in advantages. And wherever that advantage presents, itself. Let's try to maximize it. And sometimes that is closer to the rim. So I do appreciate that. And I think he's playing with more physicality and more downhill mentality. But what I'm looking for is the mentality. I'm looking for the mindset. I'm looking to see the look in your eye when you're

out there. I'm looking to see whether, you know, you're here to be the best player on the floor that night. Or if you've got a message to prove to the league that you're to, you are still a top, you know, seven talent in this league or whatever number you want to put on it. And does this particular matchup with Janice, who is arguably the best player in the league, mean enough to you for you to go after it and get it? And far too often, the answer's been no. I mean, I don't think I'm saying anything that a Laker fan

wouldn't be able to look back into the stats or into whether or not he played and agree with me, right? Like, I'm not trying to slander anybody. but the answer in a lot of instances over this time period has been no. And so in fairness to me, that's what I say. That's what I get on here and run my mouth about. But the other night, the answer was yes, you were ready for that. You took that challenge and you looked at the rest of your team and was like,

yo, let's go. We got this shit. I'm going to destroy this mofo. And again, I can only look through things genuinely and not speculate from a role players set of eyes and perspective because that's what I was. When that motherfucker looks over at me and I see him go out to eviscerate this dude and it's early and I'm looking, I look at my partner who's over there and I say, uh-oh, we got action, boss. Let's go.

And that's a different feeling. What does that do for your jumper or your rhythm when you see a guy like just fucking eviscerated dude like, oh? And you're just, I mean, you're in the corner. Like, Roger, if you were on the court. last night, right? And you're in the corner. You're waiting for your shot. You're waiting to come off a screen. But AD is like, uh-uh, this is me.

What does that do for your rhythm when you are seeing it that way and, like, you get that kick out? Does that make you a little bit more juice up to get a corner three? Does that make you a little bit more like, oh, okay, I'm just going to pass it to the big dog. Like, this is what, because it got to a point during Sunday's game where it was just, we're going to just, if I'm russ, I'm prodding to the, to the, to the paint. And then I'm just going to pass it to AD. I'm LeBron. I'm going and I'm just going to do this hook shot alley-oop

because I'm just going to throw it to the room because 80 going to go get it. What is it like when you were, not even a role player, but just an other player when somebody like that guy is cooking? Well, for me it's interesting because you know, there are different kind of guys

that support NAD or Yonis and the ones that you're talking about would be people in positions to make plays. And so I didn't play like that. I was a finisher. You know, I know how crazy that sounds, but that's what I did.

Like the ball found me when it was time to shoot it. So I didn't initiate the plays. I finished them by shooting. And so it wouldn't change my mindset because once it gets to me, that's after you guys have run all of that action and then it gets kicked out to the weak side and now it's a swing swing

and I'm open in the corner. I got to shoot it. Shot clock's running out. That's my job. So it really wouldn't change my mindset in terms of how I got him the ball or anything like that. And my job kind of remains the same. But I would just tell you this, like those shots, my shots become a little easier

and the basket looks a little bigger when I know we're getting 40 from the big dog. That's just what it is, right? Because, you know, my three for seven, let's say from three isn't as critical, right? I can be three for seven where I don't have to be five for seven to get the W because this man is cooking right now. So it just loosens you up a little bit. I think all teams take cues from a player on them. Sometimes it is not your best player. Sometimes it is your emotional leader.

Like there are guys that captivate locker rooms and have an edge about them where you're taking your emotional cues from them. but it's always a good sign for that big dog to be cooking and feeling like that and having that ooze from his pores. Everyone feels it and it just you up the level of belief in whatever it is going on that night. So the Lakers, like I said, are still 10 and 12. That just shows how bad they were to start the season, too. It's just even terrible to watch.

but what does this do for this team going forward right where are they at right now because i'm looking at their schedule you know they're going to cleveland Toronto Philly Detroit to end it out I got two questions for you I'm going to go with the first one first what does what does the road do for a team like this right when you you know you obviously have two great hall of fame level talents on the team one being arguably the greatest player of all time and they're shooting for a certain goal. They won a title. But what is, how does, how does, I always, the road I always heard was like the great

equalizer where, you know, that's either where you come, you come together because you ain't got shit else to do or you guys break apart because you all with each other so much. What is the road, what do you think the road can do for this Lakers team in a positive way, in a positive way? Like, because it seems like it's a positive road trips thus far. They've just won two great games. You kind of laid it out why it could, why it could, why it can. could be great for you or why it could why it could be a bad thing for a team. But let me just share

my experiences with LeBron-led teams because that's when leadership, you know, is critical. And you have to have someone who can kind of be the cruise director, if you will. Hey, man, this is what we got going on. I planned it. Like, or, you know, like, so for instance, the year I was in Cleveland, we were playing pretty poor. David Blatt was in question. LeBron had been slow out of the gates. And so when we left on the road trip, he didn't come with us. We left on this long West Coast road trip.

He went to Miami for a while and he met us there. So I was, we were in Phoenix and I had kind of been around the team. And the team was okay in an okay headspace. Nobody was fighting. It wasn't, it wasn't toxic, but it wasn't all kumbaya. It wasn't. And on the first leg of that road trip in Phoenix, I remember just seeing guys kind of moving around in packs of two or three and just, you know, kind of doing what they did,

meandering about. And, you know, that was fine. And so we went in, you know, I was playing golf the next morning. and I met the team over a Grand Canyon to see a practice. LeBron was coming back. And as soon as I got to the gym and open the door, I shit you not. I know this sounds hyperbolic because I'm on a pod and it's my job to kind of talk, but I promise you, when I got there and I opened the door,

the sounds of the gym were joyous. You could hear it. There was an energy in there. You could feel it. And so when I went in and watched, I remember David Griffin coming over to me and he said something to the effect

of like watch this shit. And LeBron was back. And LeBron looked good. I don't make this up, bro. Like LeBron looked good. Head back up by the rim. Yep. Burst in his step again.

I was like, oh, uh-oh. And the gym was acting accordingly. Everybody was just a little more hype, a little more chatty, a little more talkative. So boom, I think we played great. I don't remember. I don't know that we won that game in Phoenix, but then we go to L.A.

Because we're on this long road trip. And I remember because I'm walking the streets with David Griffin, and we're talking about David Blatt. And he doesn't really know if David Blatt is the guy. And so I say, hey, listen, let me grab LeBron. Let me talk to LeBron. Let me see if I could get LeBron to communicate to his teammates how important it is for us to get a good look at David to figure out if he's the guy or not.

and just make him feel secure in that if the fact that if David is really not the guy, that we will do what we need to do to help him win a championship. So I grabbed LeBron after a shoot-around, good, solid couple-minute conversation in regards to that, his legacy, like, helped us get a good look at him and so on and so forth. And that night we came out. LeBron did what LeBron did. And we beat the shit out of, I don't know if it was the Clippers or the Lakers, but we look good. And then I started to notice, like,

What I hadn't noticed in Phoenix was that the team was moving around in larger groups. They were moving around in packs of like seven and eight. Do you know what I'm saying? So like now I come back after dinner with my friends and I get to the lobby of the hotel and I see something going out on the back in the patio and like at the tables in the back. And it's our entire team sitting around with candlelights out in the dark drinking bottles of wine. Like the whole group minus maybe one or two. I don't know.

I couldn't count all the heads. But this was a large group. So that's how we started moving once LeBron came back. Do you know what I'm saying? So, you know, the next day, I get a call from Griff who's left the team. And I can't, I don't know whether LeBron did this or not. Kevin Love was still kind of out of the mix. He was still on the sidelines watching this camaraderie take place.

And so I get a call from Griff in the morning and he's like, hey, man, let's do some team building type of stuff today. I'm like, bad, what are we thinking? He's like, all right, we're going to run out this bowling alley over there on. and whatever, and let's take a couple buses and we'll go down. I'm like, oh, shit, okay. But Kevin Love's not on board. We need to get Kevin Love. You got it still in L.A. right now at this point?

We're still in L.A., right? And so in retrospect, I think LeBron probably had something to do with this communication with Griff, who was the big boss, and I'm getting the marching orders. Do you know what I mean? Like, here's how we're going to do it. But that's the brilliance of LeBron. So the problem with this trip is we're going to all do it, but Kevin Love is, still on the outside.

So, Raj, give Kevin love a call. Kev, what's up? What are we doing? Boom, we go through it with Kev. We get Kev on board. Kev's at the bowling alley, albeit begrudgingly, didn't want to be at the bowling alley. But guess what happens at the bowling alley?

What's that? Muffucker stop sulking and forget that we're like at odds. And we're having a good time. And boys are being boys and shit's getting talked. And now we're having a good time. And it happened just like that. After that trip, things were rolling.

And it happened just like that. And so it's important to have that cruise director type of, you know, leader, guy that has, guy that has winning DNA and culture, they typically are able to sit in a locker room and look around and say, hey, man, X, Y, and Z don't look included right now. I mean, we got to figure out how to connect with him. And they have their own ways of doing it, but they figure that out. And then road trips are the places where you can execute that because you don't have family pulling at you.

You ain't got to pick nobody up from school. There are no games of the kids you got to attend. There are no obligatory, like, you know, appearances typically for X, Y, and Z sponsor. So it's just you and the fellas. Yeah. No, first of all, it was a phenomenal story. Well, thank you, sir. I'm here to entertain.

That was great. That was great. And that makes total sense, right? And we don't know, like, we're very early into this Lakers. road trip. We don't know if that is happening. I'm sure that is happening on the back end. I can't wait to read the Dan Woikier, the Dan, or the Dave McMinneman piece in like four months about how this this this road trip came to be. But it's been great. Also another thing, LeBron's playing really well. LeBron is engaged right now. You know, and like I know AD got all the headlines,

but there were two dunks from LeBron last night that were fucking incredible, right? Where he gets a, there was one, I think he got a steal, or Russ got a steal, passes it to LeBron, and he face at the rim, old school, tomahawk dunk, right? And I don't know, it's really early, but you could see some spurts from this Lakers team that I don't know what the ceiling is for them. But, you know, the Lakers could be better than we think, if they keep this going, man, because there was just a vibe that I caught from them.

I agree with you. I also, for LeBron, who he even looks like he's headed downhill more. He looks like he's got a boost in his step again that I didn't see. It could be as simple as him saying, hey, man, I don't need to settle for as many threes. It could be as simple as that, right?

Like, he is as good as there is out there at kind of watching recalibrate and figuring out what he has to do. But he looks like he's going downhill more and he's got fresher legs again, which looks to be, that jumped up the screen at me when I watched the game. I think where you're at, and this was where I was going to try to go before, before you asked the question, but I think where the Lakers are at now is if you're, if you are a front office, there was nothing really to do while the shit show of the first iteration

of the Lakers was unfolding. There's nothing to do. I mean, I don't know where to go from here. I don't know what. move I can make. This is, this is crazy. Now you can start to see what this looks like. They're a piece away.

Yeah. No, they are. They're a piece. I don't know what piece, but they're a move away from being a team that I'll sit here and tell you, like, championship level team. Right now, I'm willing to say, like, though, while I couldn't see it a couple weeks ago, I see it now.

Competitive will be in the mix, will be, you know, I don't know if, where in the hierarchy of the Western Conference? What kind of move, though? Like, is it like a tweak move or is it a, is it a major move? What do you think? Like, what do you think that they need? No, I don't think, I don't think they need a major move necessarily.

It could be, it could be a veteran, um, Jay Crowder, wing, yeah, something. See, that name's come up multiple times, but a move like that, Logan, away from solidifying. and now I'm looking at your roster and saying, oh, yeah, okay, all right. All right, I can see that. If they continue on the trajectory. All right, man, we'll see what happens. Let's keep this in mind.

This team is 10 and 12, but, you know, everybody knows in the real one's pod. You can see it now, though, and that's important. You know what I'm saying? For, again, for a front office, you're sitting there with all of this shit on your table, and it just looks like a puzzle with all of these pieces all strewn across the table and they're upside down

and you're like, what the fuck is that? And now that thing's got, like you got a little, I don't know, a fifth of the puzzle's starting to take place and we flipped all the other pieces over so you can see the colors and you can try to man. And you're like, okay, I can try to figure out where to go from here.

You're in a bag with your analogies right now, sir. Speaking of all the puzzles are not together, we're going to talk about a player and a team on the other end of this break. And we are back. Rajah, I told you that there was some shit popping off

that we needed to talk about in regards to Atlanta. And I'm going to I'm going to, I'm going to get the story out. I'm going to paraphrase the story. But before I paraphrase the story,

I'm going to bring in the guy that wrote the story, Sam Amick, of the athletic. He's based, him and Shams wrote a story about the turmoil in Atlanta, where Tray Young, the gist of it is

Trey Young chose not to attend Friday's home win over Denver because of an incident that happened at shoot-around where he comes to shoot-around and he's hurt he has an injury

and Nate McMillan said, hey man, let's participate in the shoot-around. Come participate in a shoot-round and Trey Young's like, no, coach, I'm rehabbing. And then Nate McMillan according to Amich reporting, is like, oh, okay, well, in that case, you can either come off the bench tonight or not show up. And Trey Young decided not to show up to the game. One of the ramifications of this, Sam, and what the hell was going on in Atlanta?

First of all, Logan, that Nate McMillan impersonation, man, that was dead on. I'm sure that's how Nate sounds. I mean, yeah, I mean, the ramifications are this is one of those stories where we focused on what happened. Friday, the fallout that night. But this is absolutely, I think, a microcosm of bigger issues within the Hawk situation. So we can get to that in a second. But, you know, you broke it down pretty well. The one detail I would add is that my understanding, our understanding, is that the specifics about what options Trey had in front of him were relayed to him later in the day. Bottom line, for me, all that matters is that he made a choice to not come to the game

rather than come off the bench, you know, for a team that is pretty messed up with injuries right now, John Collins, Deontra Hunter. And then you've also got, you know, the name McMill component is that he's an old school coach who took that tact of its shoot around. I need you out here to talk about the game plan. Get off the stem machine or whatever you're doing right now and just take a moment. Or he was actually told, like, you can go ahead and keep, you know, take your portable treatment over here and just walk through real.

quick and didn't want to. Now, to be honest, when we first heard the story, and a lot of times this is how it goes, is that by the time it gets to us, it was a more dramatic version of ultimately what we were told happened. Like, they really got into it. People insisted. That's not how bad it was. But it was bad enough that teammates talk to agents, agents start spreading the world. You know, like this thing got out pretty quick. And you look at today, you know, Trey addresses the media, I don't know if you guys caught his video. And it's just like, man, like we just wrote this piece that made it very clear that beyond this event that Trey probably needs to look in the mirror when it comes to his leadership style and the way he's moving.

And then he was pretty combative with the media today. He kind of talked about how you guys are outsiders. And if you don't know the whole story, you should stay on the outside. And he had a real edge to him. So he's not exactly doing a mayor couple today. Yeah, that's really interesting. I didn't, I didn't, check that. I typically, I didn't see the, the Tray Young piece. And I typically will side with old school, like, I played against Nate. I know what Nate's about. I, the Jerry Sloan approach of like, hey, we need everybody out here. Right. Like the, you know, you can get the treatment, bring the treatment out here. I typically, but I do try to straddle, you know, and understand the newer player in his psyche

and the way they've been brought up to feel like the brand or their personal brand is as important as the team brand. And while that wouldn't fly 10, 11 years ago, it certainly is a landfill you have to navigate now as a coach, like a landmine. You got to navigate that shit. But my question to you is like, is there any sense of where the team falls on this?

Right? Because, I mean, I saw something similarly with the boy, who was a quarterback from the Jets? a couple weeks ago. Yeah, yeah, where he wouldn't take any. Yeah, and then he came out with the media and got, you know, kind of got really combative. And then you started to see when they put Mike White, the other kid in that the team kind of didn't have his back.

Right. You know, so like there are situations, I guess this is a long way to get to this. There are situations that I've been in where a player is stepping up and acting away towards the coach. And that is kind of reflection of the way the team feels about the coach. And then there are other situations where, a player will act like that. And the rest of his teammates are like,

now we don't fuck with buddy like that. Right. No, I love the question. And I think the answer is pretty clear that I think that players, if they were picking sides, to be honest with you, I think they'd be on Nate's side.

I do get the sense that like, you know, and it's nothing, you know, unfixable. You know, it's not maybe the toxic level, but it's not good.

Like the, Trey and the way that he, you know, handles his power, I guess I'll say, he's got a lot of juice in that franchise. And I think a lot of, people internally are trying to get the word out that he probably has a little too much juice.

And, you know, and this is reflective in this moment when you look at the coach and say, no, I'm going to get my training and my rehab like I want to. I'm going to ignore the fact that you have this policy. So that is the way I think it's going. And it matters a lot because you go back to last summer. They do the Dejante Murray trade. They are now a couple games over 500. This is a team that when they gave up, when they give up everything that they did to get Dejante,

the expectation was Eastern Conference contention again, you know, damn near top two, top three in the conference because of the price that they had to pay. And so a couple games over 500, not good enough, not stepping up when the team is hurt and we could use who out there and play through a little something, not good enough, and then certainly choosing to not even be at the arena, not a good sign. So when I read your piece, and I saw a Tray Young thing, and I think I've gotten to the point with Tray Young that usually when I see his headline nowadays, it's not very good, right? It's he's playing really, he's a great score, but it's always seems to be the same type of things, right? And I think you guys did a great job of referencing this in your piece of this seems to be a cycle with Tray Young.

You know, he had issues with Lloyd Pierce. Got Nate McMillan. Nate McMillan wound up being the coach for that 2021 run, which was one of the best runs, I guess, during this era of the Hawks. But at what point, at what point is Trey, I don't know how to frame this. It just feels like Trey, there has to become a breaking point. Is that this, that breaking point where he has to look in the mirror? Or are we kind of far away from that?

where are we in the Tray Young Atlanta front office relationship? Is that, oh, we acknowledge that he has this power? We have to do something about it? Or where are we at right now with the relationship between Trey Young and the front office? I think it's well past the front office. It's part of it. It's ownership. I mean, Tony Ressler obviously owns that team.

Nick Ressler, his son, has a lot of power and is, you know, for obvious reasons. We know how this league works, but is very closely tied in. with Trey. And I think perception-wise, there are some folks who feel like, you know, that's part of the reason that Trey feels, you know, as empowered as he does is anytime, any job you have. If you're operating above your quote-unquote superiors and then, you know, and then going straight to, you know, the ownership side, you're going to move a little bit differently. This, I think, Logan was when people on the inside were hoping he would look in the mirror. And the early indications are that he's not. He's defensive. He's got excuses for what

happen. You know, he's combative. So, yeah, I think that it's not going to change anything in terms of Tray Young is not going to be available anytime soon in trade talks. He's not going anywhere. They are building around this dude. But, you know, it's a breaking point in terms of the dynamics. When we decided to go with this story, and this kind of gets to your question too, for me, that was one of those where you have times when people who you talk to, we talk to a lot of folks for this one, like you wonder, are they going to be? You know, are some of them going to be pissed that it got out? Are some of them going to be happy that it got out?

And this is one of those where I think some folks were probably happy that it got out because they're running out of other ways to send the message to Trey that could you please tweak your operation here? That's messy. That's messy. Go ahead. Go ahead. Question no for you, Roger. What?

Based on what we know right now, right? And the story that we know, you were in a locker room before. You know how this works. if this happens on a normal team with the star players like nah bro i'm not i'm not coming in like how important is that shoot around dynamic and what does this mean from a player locker room standpoint based on what we know right now um like how would you feel if if you were like going in a shoot around and just saw that from a star player like what do you think what is going what does that say about a team i've never experienced that like i've never i know i i myself have missed a shoot around um

and I've had teammates miss shootarounds for flus or for reasons of like, hey, don't, like, try to get yourself ready for tonight because you just can't get out of bed. I threw up all night in New Orleans. And I wasn't going to be a shootaround, but I'm going to be at that game. And you make everyone aware of that, you know, and that's an excuse type of situation. But to have someone refuse to come on to court when they're standing right there. And it's a simple, that's a relatively benign request. You have to realize that.

That's not, you're not asking anybody to, like, to drag themselves in. and they can barely, you know, stand up for two hours, right? So I'd be looking at him kind of sideways, dog. And then you're, you know, given the opportunity to still participate, you decide to just completely, you know, leave us out in the win like that as a teammate. I would definitely be looking at you sideways. And so this always takes me back, Logan, and I get here, Sam, I get here all the time with this and when Young Buck's like this, man,

and he is a talent. No, A, who's in your camp? Like, who are the people in your trusted group of friends and your circle? Do you have any elder statesman? Do you have good, solid, role model type of people in that? They can say to you, yo, yo, yo. This is a terrible look. Or do you got a bunch of dudes riding your coattails and following you?

Because you're a relatively young cat. And then secondly, talk about this shit all the time, Logan. Look at their roster. Look at it. There's nobody on that roster with the cachet or the experience to be able to grab his ass and say, yo, man, you are fucking up. What are you doing, dude? Like, clearly you're the best player, but there's responsibility that comes with that.

Kobe didn't come out to a lot of shootarounds. He didn't. I know for a fact. Like, I wasn't on the teams, but, you know, I know people. And Kobe began his massage and stuff like that and, you know, give him the game playing. Kobe won championships, dog. Right, right, right. You know what I'm saying?

Like you put in the cart before the horse. And that's what troubles me about that, man. So I would ask the question. I don't know him. I don't know the brother. Like, does he have people around him? I know, you know, I often said this about Kyrie. I know Kyrie's camp.

And a lot of times, Kyrie's can't look to me to be a relatively young and immature camp. So, you know, Kyrie's moves, there's no checks and balances for his moves. Those are his moves independently. So there's no elder statesman sitting there telling him, hey, young fellow, like that's not a good look. No, I agree. I mean, his dad, you know, Ray Young is pretty prominent publicly and outspoken, and everybody knows the part that Ray plays in his life. They don't have those vets on the roster.

I even look at a John Collins, and this, I think, in that same vein, Raja, is not a great sign for Tray. I tell people all the time, like, John Collins should, like, want to be there and be part of what they're doing. Now, granted, I don't blame John. The Hawks have repeatedly sent the message to John that they got him out there and trade talks. And so it's mutual. But like, it doesn't make a lot of sense in a vacuum that John Collins' situation in Atlanta's is not great and doesn't have a long future. And we wrote last season about some of the stuff that happened between John and Trey just in terms of on court, how they functioned. And Trey didn't get grave reviews on how he handled that type of stuff from a leadership standpoint. So I don't know who that person is. I think it'll take the team

not achieving what they wanted to achieve this year, which at this point, if you're predicting things, it's not looking great. And then you got the Dejante factor because all I've heard is that, you know, so far in Atlanta, people appreciate Dejante not only his game, but they like the way he's moving, and that he's kind of like that guy who's just reading the room right now,

deciding what he thinks of all of this. But I do think there is an unspoken sense that, like, could somebody step forward and get a, you know, better handle on this thing? Because it's not good right now. That's interesting to me, Logan. Allow me. I mean, that's really interesting to me, right? Because I want to be careful with this, but Trey obviously is a talent that is very, very rare. You know, but this happens sometimes where that talent is as rare as it is, it can't sit in the big seat. It's got to be in a talent lane.

Do you know what I mean? It can't be the pivotal thing that everything else orbits, around because it just won't lead. It doesn't have the, it doesn't have the, the willingness or the capability to, to be solid enough as an individual and care about enough people. Leading is caring, dude. You have to care about people. You know, it requires some compassion and a level of unselfishness that, that not everyone can display. And so I think it's interesting, though, because he mentioned DeJante Murray sitting there, read in the room. Like, there are situations where you could sit back and play your position and watch and say, you know what, I'll do it. Like, I'll step up and do it. And that could change the face of a franchise. I'm not calling for shit.

I'm not saying anything. Clearly, Trey Young is Atlanta right now. But keep an eye on that shit, man, because all it takes is for someone to step up and lead and that team to win because there's talent there. Right. Two things, though, on that, though. There's, and I'll get to you right after I say this, Sam, I think that there's two things to this. One, yeah, DeJante Murray is looking and watching. He's also looking and watching and saying, and I'm paraphrasing, I'm not locked into Sammas, but if you're a guy that just came in to a franchise with the Trey Young,

you're also watching the scene like, oh, this is how this shit is run right now? Like, this is what's going on when you see the, and I'm looking at, and I'm looking at DeJante's contract, he has one more year on his deal left after this. So the Hawks have, the time is ticking on the Hawks to figure this shit, out too, right? Like, it's not just a

Trey Young thing. This is an overall organizational thing. Where do we go from here? Is that kind of the sense right now in Atlanta? Sam? I think so. I think, and Trey's been fighting this narrative damn near back to his high school days that guys didn't want to play with them. You know, and that was mostly a

basketball thing, but now you add in the personality stuff, you add in the power dynamics. Yeah, I think he's in danger of, you know, he's going to be fine either way, have a good career, but like, yeah, to your point, Raja, could it alter the direction that the hawks take this thing, I think it could. And within that, like I look at the coaching front.

And Nate, you know, you said earlier, old school can be hard. I think there's people in this situation who might feel like, you know, Nate could have been a little bit less black and white in that shootaround, you know, and handled it a little bit differently. Sure. But because of the way the Lord Pierce thing went down, I definitely get the sense that they're just not in the mood to, you know, have it be like, that again. Now, Nate, at the end of the year, if this team underperforms, could Nate be in trouble?

Absolutely. Do I think Nate is going to get fired midseason? I really don't, unless they lose 10, 20 in a row. That's our understanding is that the organization is not looking at Nate here. The organization is looking at tray. That's interesting. I just want to, first of all, you touched on Logan DeJante getting somewhere and saying, oh, shit, that's how it's run here. Look where he came from before that. It's the Antichesis of that. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like that's class personified, dude. That is the gold standard for how some stuff is supposed to be run. There are two things the NBA players care about. Two things. This is it. Winning and they're bread. Yep. That's what they care about, dog.

Like winning. Moves are made for one of two reasons, dog. Like, I'm either getting the bag and the bread. If you got traded there to win. That's what he got traded there. I want to now win. And so if you're telling me that the person, if I'm in that franchise and the person who has all the juice in this franchise is standing in the way of me getting my bread because he's hard to play with and he won't give me the fucking ball, right? Well, that's tough for me to swallow.

But if we're winning, maybe I can, maybe I can forgive that. But if he's standing in the way of both of those things and then he's being, and I'm this. Look, this is, I don't know that this is fact. I'm just, this is me looking at it. If you're standing in a way of both of these things for me as a player, right? And there's no accountability and you're always going to be, you know, kind of coddled by ownership because you have this relationship. And so now you're kind of emboldened and empowered to act this way. Like, while Atlanta has kind of gotten it right and you could see the city, like we had DA on saying these particular cities, if they ever get it right, they're sleeping giants in the NBA.

Right, right. And Atlanta was one of the ones that he said is kind of on track. But what I'm telling you is if that is allowed defester and people look at that situation and say, hey, can't play with them because I'm not going to get my bread and we ain't going win because they allow him to run roughshod over the franchise. That could derail that shit too. So, Roger. This doesn't help either.

Real. Go ahead. Let me just add this on because you hit on it like Dejante's mentality and his perspective here, right? we've kind of skipped over part of the story from Friday. Not only does Trey not show up, what did they go out and do? They went out and beat a good Denver Nuggets team. And Mr. Murray finished with 34 points, eight assists, plus three, 22 shots, four of seven from three and 35 minutes. You know, when he got traded there, all accounts were that he was excited and he was ready to share the ball with Trey.

Because you look at that right out the gate and you say, damn, like great players, but that's that's one ball, two guys who need it. Then you have some of the drama, the acrimony leading up to Trey, not being at the game Friday. And then if, you know, and again, not speaking for DeJante, I'm just, you know, reading his room. You know, you look at that. Like, where's his head at as Friday night comes to a close?

I just had a great night. We beat Denver. You know, Trey was at home. Connect those dots. Yeah. Hey, listen, I'll tell you what. You come back in that locker room the next day. It's going to be a couple chairs slid just a little closer to DeJante's locker room.

Right. Just a little close to the Janté's locker, bro. I mean, like, the circle's going to start forming over there. Right. We haven't seen it yet, but I do, I mean, like, I believe it, like Sam saw it, the presser today this morning. And just the defiance just speaks on a lot of things. But one of the biggest things, to your point, Raja, and what I'm really going to be looking to out of Tray in the next couple of weeks, I'm just going to flat out say it.

Trey Young is just not liked very much throughout the league. Like it's very known. Any person you talk to about Trey Young or Scout, anybody that is an observer, always has like some type of critique of Trey Young, right? Or whether like it's either something along the lines of does anyone want to play with, just anything that you want to think about with Trey Young, you hear about that. You hear it's always something like it's a great player, but it's something negative on the back end.

I'm curious to see what he does over the next few months, right? Or how he, if he's, it could only go one or two ways. You could be contrite. You can just look yourself in the mirror or you can continue to do what, what Sam described is just being just defying in the press. And here's another thing. We saw this with the chiri stuff. Other guys in the locker room see that shit.

And they're like, yo, bro, we saw what you did in that, in that shooting run. You're not taking accountability for that? Right. How bad could this get saying? Logan, a couple years ago, I did a story with Trey. He was on a heater and just wanted to talk about how well he was playing. And we sat down in a lobby of a hotel in Phoenix, downtown Phoenix. And the story ended up, you know, based on our conversation,

talking about how every time somebody publicly shared some of that skepticism that you're hitting on, you know, Trey's not going to get it done because of this. Trey's not going to get it done because of that. he's not, I just don't think he's, he's not a look in the mirror, dude, because what he would do is screenshot every tweet, record every video, they'll probably have this podcast playing in the background at his house, like, and then decide that he's going to use all that energy to go give everybody the middle finger on the court. And there's, you know, you know, the best players in the history of the game, they all have some of that. So I don't know if, is there ever going to

be a gray area? Or, I mean, the way he looked this morning, and, you know, on you guys got me thinking back on that video like yeah like yeah he's just he's kind of living in it like that's fine keep coming at me and and i'm going to be who i and be edgy but you know the one guy asked him i don't know who was local reporter when he pushed back on the idea that this was a big deal he said you know if this was private it wouldn't have been a big deal and the reporter essentially said but tray could you see uh the perception of you not being at the game and from a leadership standpoint what that looks like and he looks at the dude and says no i can see that you're an outsider who should stay on the outside.

You just don't get it. You just don't get it. There are some dudes that just don't like get it. Now, it could be just you don't get it in that moment. But from what you guys are telling me, because I don't know him, sounds like he just don't get it. And that's unfortunate. And it plays itself, look.

But it's lovable, Raja. Like, it's lovable when he's like when he's got the garden pissed off because he's taken it to him. But it's not lovable, Sam, when the best you can do in your career is to go to the second round. That's the thing. That's that it. That is fine if you are winning chips. You become this lovable, like-

Conference finals, though. You've got to give him love for that. Conference finals. You're right. You're right. You're right. But, you know, I mean, we need to, I mean, that agitator role, that chip on the shoulder, abrasive personality, which people have had.

I mean, it's okay. Sure. It's got to be, you know, it's got to be. And again, Sam, you know this. Logan, you know this in the locker. I talk about this all the time. When I played, I was essentially in character. I was in character.

No, I was. I am not to do, like people who know me, they say it all to time. Like, man, you know, if I'd get to their team where they, we'd go out and I'd meet them, they'd be like, bro, I thought you were a real asshole, man. You are not anything. I still get it when people meet me. They're like, you are not who I thought you were because I was in character. So point being, you can turn that shit off.

You can be the agitator. You know, you can be out there and wear every insult on your sleeve and, hey, F, the world, I'm giving the guard in the middle finger and we're doing all that. And people can love you in Atlanta for that. But then when it's time to really take responsibility and hold your teammates down and shield them from some of the criticism that your shoulders are broad enough to take, like, you've got to be able to do that. So you got to play the role.

Don't live the role, my dog. Roger, the Kobe example you mentioned earlier, like him not going to shoot-arounds, right? but then that was earned, you know, through those titles. You know, I'm, to be honest, the more I think about it, it does drive me nuts with some of the young dudes who, and even Kyrie comes to mind, like, all right, Kyrie got his ship hit one of the biggest shots in the history of the finals, so that's on a different level.

But there is this sense that in this, you know, in this post-Cobie Bryan era where he has influenced so many guys, I do think too many young stars are quick to lean into, no, this is how we do it. Because I covered Kobe's whole career, And I struggled to figure out how to, you know, tell his stories when it comes to his leadership. Because you know how, like, you couldn't go five feet without running into a negative Kobe Bryant story when it comes to his leadership. Like in some of his career.

Like, but the dude would get the results. And then he would, you know, he would convince you that, no, it's tough love. It's this, it's that. But Kobe's blueprint is not one that all these other guys can just adopt and decide that that that. they can roll that way. This dude, I mean, he was great, and he got better from a leadership standpoint over time, and, and these other guys haven't earned it. That's a, that's a fantastic point, man.

I'm glad you touched on that. Like, Kobe earned that. Yeah. And it's more the exception than the rule. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's, that's a proprietary, unique kind of way. I mean, him and maybe MJ that handled it like that. And, and the other thing is, Kobe was fucking, Kobe was.

16 years in the league. You know what I mean? Like towards the end of a career when you're seeing that, this man is, his body won't function tonight unless he uses this morning to piece it back together.

Like, bro, you are in your seventh year, six year, like get your ass out there. And he was always, I know it's all, these are tall tales that mostly are true, but like he was the dude getting up at four in the morning to work out.

He was like, if you gave him a chance to come off the bench or stay home, I don't think he's staying home. Right. You know, um, so,

Yeah, it's a lot, man. I want to switch really quickly before we get you out of here. We talked about the Lakers and Anthony Davis in our first segment. And they were on a roll seven of nine. And our friend, Yovonne Baha, from the Athletic, put out a piece last week talking about how just the scenarios and what the Lakers could do in terms of trading people out.

And is that still on the table right now? considering what they're doing and it seems like they're jelling right now, what are the Lakers looking for in terms of movement throughout the league? Are they still looking to make moves? Are they still trying to figure themselves out? Where are they at right now? Because on the surface that everything looks great, we just gushed over to Lakers in the first second.

But there is the other thing on the other side of that where this might not be a fully formed team. And even Rogers said there might be a move away from being what they want to be. Yeah, and I feel like your editor today, Logan, but 8 of 10, and not even 7 of 9, 8 of 10, they are on a roll. I actually texted Yovan last night. He's going to be on my pod later in the day to talk Lakers. And first thing I texted was, Yovan, could the team you cover actually be good?

Like, what is happening here? This is crazy, you know. I watched them. And because I knew we were going to be talking on the pod today, I even pulled up Darwin, Amth post-game press conference, took that all in, took in AD's press conference. So I was, you're getting me on the right day here. Like, but I don't have the goods on the trade front because I don't know what they're thinking today. I think it has to evolve.

You know, one thought that crossed my mind is that Russ, obviously they've already come close to trading him multiple times. You know, we all know that story, but he's playing well. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, do you really want to touch that now? So the three options that Yovon kind of broke down. I would assume that if this kind of play continues. Can we break down those options real quick, those trade options? As of December 1st, our guy Yovon on the Lakers had mapped it out like this.

Path one is to trade Russell Westbrook plus a first round pick or two for a star or a multiplayer trade. Path number two would be to trade some combination of Patrick Beverly, Kendrick Nunn, and picks, either one first or multiple, I'm sorry, one first possibly with seconds for role players. to better address needs and upgrade the rotation. Path three would be two separate trades, one with Westbrook and a first, another using Beverly and none with a pick.

So, I mean, that's a fancy way of saying that you're talking, shoot, you know, just swing for the fences, go big, Russ and multiple first for, you know, insert high-level player name here. I don't know who that dude is. I don't think he exists right now. Or work around the edges.

I think what I learned from his report was that for one, you know, Patrick Beverly, you know, he came in like always, you know, talking a lot early this preseason. And so if you just judged it based on, like, you know, volume level, you think he was like a long-tenured member of the Lakers. You know, he has not played very well. So I think, you know, they look at that and they know that there's some good teams elsewhere that would see Pat and say, okay, if we need a little defensive intensity in Jews, maybe they do something. I have a hard time thinking, that even just to start from the top of the Lakers organization,

considering what I know about how Jeannie Bus has viewed the Westbrook situation, I think she'd be extremely reluctant to part ways with Russ right now because going into the season, she set the tone when it came to telling the fans, the media, the public, to have patience with the Darwin Ham component. Her whole point was, why did we change coaches? hire Darvin and listen to his pitch about how he could use Russ if we were going to give up before the regular season even began. And so I think as they got close to camp and they did almost

make that trade with Indiana from Miles Turner and Buddy Heald, you know, I think that tone that she said at the top was still prominent and played a big part. So I don't see, I mean, come on, the other not against New Orleans, they got that one play that Darwin talked about at length where Russ is diving on the floor. You know, I think he kicks it to, to LeBron. LeBron finds AD. You had your big three that we thought was going to, you know, do some things much, much earlier, finally playing at a high level.

So I don't know what's coming. You know, we know Rob Polenka got an extension not too long ago. So I don't think you have that like desperate front office component where the GM might be doing things just to, you know, justify his existence. Rob's not going to do that. You know, LeBron's voice, like always. is going to matter. I think it'll matter a ton at the deadline because he has been

so patient, I think, when it comes to these dynamics. Like, you know, Rajah, you talk about Dejante Murray studying the organization, right? Like, how much would you pay to be flying the wall for LeBron when he's telling the truth about how like, damn, came to L.A., and then

Magic Johnson was here, and then Magic quit, and then, like, he has mostly stayed quiet on all the chaos with the Lakers. But I think this trade deadline, as he's there's here midway through year number 20, he knows like, if we're playing okay, like, let's do something to get us up to a higher level. Yeah.

No, I think you're right. And I mean, I wasn't posed the question. Logan, I would, maybe, maybe you were, man. I'm not giving you enough credit, but I think you were going to take me, hopefully you were going to take me here. I said it earlier. I think the fact that they have hit a stride and are playing well now, it gives you a little bit more clarity on.

what you could be, right? Like, you didn't have any idea what you were while it was just a mess. So now you could start to see, you know, a picture form. And I, again, I don't think it's a major move. You would then be saying, hey, man, we're willing to take these, this step back theoretically, to try to take two steps forward and put faith in that. And you just came off of that. Like, you just came off of that.

And I don't think in LeBron's window, you have time for that. So I don't think you can disrupt. There's just me looking at it. If I was advising Rob, if I was in his camp, I don't think we can do that in this window with LeBron. I think what you do is you go out shopping around the fringes with pieces that don't severely change the makeup of your team, but add depth, add character, add experience.

And those three, like if AD is doing what he's doing and LeBron is healthy and you found a way to integrate and use Russ, you're fine. Now you need the supplemental pieces around those edges to fortify. I don't think it's going to happen, Raja, just because, like, we talked about this in the, in the first segment, Jake Crowder would be perfect for this team.

But it's not going to happen because they're in division. And I just don't see that happening. But we'll see. What do you think, Sam? What is a guy that you think that might be where we get you out of here? We're taking all of your saying, all the shit from you. We're taking everything from you right now. I hear you, brother.

I don't have any good. Jay Crowder is a good name. The division thing does matter. And, man, James Jones has just been extremely patient on that front. And I feel like, Like he's got a lot in front of him. You know what I mean in terms of options? He's probably got six, seven different teams where he could just make the phone call and get something done.

So the odds of the Lakers being that team do seem pretty slim. And I'm drawing a blank on like a good name in that genre because, you know, my mind goes to, even if it's unlikely at this point, the star player trade, months ago there was this kind of pie in the sky since from the Lakers that, well, if, Oklahoma City just, you know, completely tanks. Let's go get Shea. Like, I heard Shea's name coming out of that Lakers camp. Like, but it's just a dream. You know what I mean? Like, and, but I should say because the Thunder will be calling it quickly.

Hey, hey, hey, Sam, you got, you got two Laker fans on with Third Ikeye and O.G. Kerm that are just like crying right now. Right, right. They're just crying. Well, don't get too excited. It's not happening. The Thunder. I wrote some about it a couple of weeks.

ago, and boy did I hear from the thunder. Like Shea has said publicly that he's good, and they've been a little better than we thought they would be. The point is that Lakers, they had been kind of dreaming of like, who's going to shake free? DeMarie Rosen comes to mind. You know, Zach Levine, I just saw Chicago and Sacramento last night there yesterday afternoon. They didn't look too good. You do, you know, who knows where that's all going.

But there is no tangible evidence that I'm aware of right now to indicate that any of those level of players are going to be available. And so I think the more reasonable thing is to shop around the entire league for good fits and to elevate this trio that all of a sudden is looking pretty good. These, I mean, look, I'm not, this is vacuum stuff, dude. I haven't broken it down. And I know these pieces are important to teams that they're on, but names that make, like the type of player that, like, you're talking about like a Malcolm Brognan type of player,

right? Like something like that, like a Caleb Martin, who's a little younger down in Miami. like you're talking about these are the type of moves that I think and if you could swing a deal and get a couple pieces like that I think you're I think you're sitting right provided I mean just shooting wise like what about Duncan Robinson like his thing has gone so sideways in Miami yeah you know so pretty heavy though isn't it his bag he Yeah, that's right. They did kill them from a tax standpoint. That's the other problem. I'm glad you mentioned that, Roger, because they are, this is one of the most unique situations I've ever seen from a team planning standpoint because you got the spotlight of Lakerland,

all the pressure that comes with this season, year number 20 for LeBron, you got to win right now. But this summer, they get all that money back from Russ's contract coming off the books. they get access to a third first round pick that, you know, you combine, you know, that with cap room that is essentially at max salary space. And so you're playing this, you're doing this dance where you don't want to offend LeBron and act like you're going to punt on this season. But they have been somewhat excited internally about the fact that at least this summer, we have some tools in the tool belt again.

But the whole question was, okay, but what about now? And so, yeah, I mentioned Duncan's name. You can't do Duncan because it jacks up your space going forward. So they're restricted, but we'll see what they do. Sam, you just basically made the Lakers Free Agency meme that comes out every time where every one of your favorite players is in a Lakers uniform. You basically just did that for Kai and Kerm. Engagement.

Thank you so much for coming on. And on very last minute, I hit Sam like two minutes before the pod. Like, you, Sam, I'm trying to come on real quick. Trying to roll on. Roger, he calls me, this dude used to be humble. He calls me twice. Like, he calls me twice, and I'm on a call. I can't get off.

And then was just like, damn, what's trying to get you on the pot? I'm like, I got 30 seconds notice? Like, what are you doing here? Yeah, he's coming a long way, Sam. I guess. We are out here. Keep taking care of him, man. I love what you guys are doing.

Appreciate you having me on. Hey, appreciate him. That's a pleasure. Thanks so much. That has been our Monday edition of Real Ones. Make sure you check us out Mondays and Thursday. Thursdays, you can check Sam's workout on the athletic. What's the pod you're doing? What's the pod you're doing with Yovant? The tampering pod, part of the athletic NBA show network. Yeah, the tampering pod. Rajah, I saw your face. My favorite moment when we drop the name of the pod is when we have like executives and owners on and they don't know the name of the podcast. And then you say it and they go, what did I come on here? What's what's happened?

What are you talking about? What are you talking about? You know tampering doesn't exist in the NBA anymore. It doesn't. It shouldn't. They should just give up and fight. Right. All right. Make sure check that on on Tuesdays? Tuesdays, yeah? Yeah, Tuesdays morning. Yep, absolutely.

All right. We'll see, uh, we'll bring Sam on again at some point. Uh, but make sure you guys check us out on Mondays and Thursday. See you guys. Thursday. Might have another special guest. You never know. Anyway, tap in.

Talk to you guys soon. Holler.