The Ringer NBA Show - Playing Trade-Deadline Doctor and Going Deep on the Pelicans | Group Chat (Ep. 370)

Episode Date: January 17, 2019

We diagnose the problems that the Celtics, the Lakers, and the Grizzlies will have to address at the upcoming NBA trade deadline (1:10). Then, we call up Scott Kushner, the 'New Orleans Advocate' Pelicans beat reporter, to give us the Pelicans side of the Anthony Davis story and dish out his best DeMarcus Cousins stories (28:19). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Paolo Uggetti, Haley O’Shaughnessy Guest: Scott Kushner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Use promo code Yahoo 25 when you make your first deposit of $25 in free play. Basketball is very good. Jimmy Butler is actually a good teammate. Saabonis is the most important front court pacer. The air and Fox is better than Donovan Mitchell. Basketball is very good. Hello! And welcome to the Ringer MBA show.

This is the group chat. I'm still not comfortable doing it that way. You can always switch it, you know? Paulo Getty. You think you could do better? Probably not. Paulo needs to try next week. I'm going to pass.

We're going to get into some Hot Pelicans talk in the second half of the podcast. We're bringing on Scott Kushner from the New Orleans Advocate. But first, we're talking about deals. It's rumor monger season. We have a lot of this going on on the ringer.com. We have a live blog that we're going to pretty much be updating throughout the next month. Trade season is now a month, just in case you guys are wondering, just because we love it so much. There's going to be a lot going on there. Jonathan Charks also wrote a really good piece today about who says no between trade for C.J. McCollum for Aaron Gordon, which I thought was a particularly interesting one. But we are talking about some teams that need help.

Regardless of what's happening in the season, I think they're going to need something to happen. Let's start first with the Boston Celtics. Okay. Haley. This is the team I'm going to fix. You came locked and loaded with the trade. I did. Well, okay, so actually, this is funny. I woke up. You did not come locked and loaded with the train. I did. But it came to me in the middle of the night. I woke up and I know. And I had my first. phone and I looked at the trade machine just to see if it would work. And it did. And then I went to

sleep and then I got it this morning and I looked at it and I was like, oh, God. This is a little out there. So I feel like I need to explain first. Okay, this, there are so many things wrong with the Celtics. When I say that, I don't just mean on the court. I mean a lot of it is off the court. By proxy, that means that something's wrong with Brad Stevens too. Oof. Tough look for our guy. Not him as a person, but his coaching right. now. Because you have Kyrie, who just to recap, basically said, these guys don't know how to win a championship. I know how to win a championship. You have Jalen Brown, one of the young guys, coming back and saying, no, we shouldn't point fingers. There's bad things going on everywhere. And then so Kyrie tries to

fix it and says, I called LeBron and I apologize because it's really hard to, you know, develop young kids and be around these young kids and teach them how to win, which is basically like, if you call your mom and you're like, I'm so sorry for being a shithead. You're still calling your kid a shithead. Right. You know what I mean?

Like, it's kind of him saying sorry to his team, but not really. I thought it was like an interesting move. Not just the fact that he did it, but also that he felt that he needed to communicate it to the media that he did. It was interesting too, I thought.

Well, but nothing means anything if you don't communicate it to the media, right? True. No, no. But then we had the story this morning on the athletic that, you know, Kevin Love was with LeBron. when Kyrie called LeBron.

It all seems like, I don't know, I just... That's the issue with it. I mean, I think that's a little independent of it because you have a reporter in Cleveland who's like so clearly tied with or knows LeBron and Kevin Love's so well from his time with him that he was able to just like track down the details of the call. Are we going to conspiracy corner right now?

No, but no. I agree that like the biggest issue is that all of this has played out in the media. And it seemed like Kyrie was both acknowledging the flaws in that and yet still doing it through the media as if to like put a bookend on the entire Friasko. Hopefully from this point forward, he stops doing that and keeps it in-house.

But overall, I thought it was a good moment where he came to the realization that maybe his methods aren't like the best way of doing it. Well, a day or two after he originally said that first comment, he was talking to the media and he said, I should not talk about my teammates in public again. I'm paraphrasing, but he said that. And that kind of was enough to me.

But anyway, that's one problem, that they have this outside perception. going on. Inside, they have so many things wrong with their team. And last night, they won. Aaron Baines is back, which is far more important than I expected to be. He's kind of like a connector for a lot of the things that are going wrong on offense right now and on defense. Terry also played well last night, but he's been a huge problem. I call Terry's first name only now. It's only Paley. Terry. No, you know. Tito. It's a first name only guy. Yeah. We know each other. We don't, but I like to think we do. Okay, anyway, Marcus Marks been out.

Another huge problem. Gordon Hayward has been out in every single form except for his physical body. Yeah, right. This man is like, his vertical is completely gone. He looks gun-shy. He looks like he's trying to conserve things and hide other things.

Not the same player. When they played the Nets, when they lost the Nets, Gordon sat like the last eight minutes of the fourth. It was a close game. Forrethet sat the entire time. The hierarchy that we thought was going to exist does not exist. And that's Brad Stevens' problem. He needs to pick eight guys, ten guys, roll with them.

And it might not be your best eight or ten in that order. And he has to make that decision. And it seems so obvious if you look at Marcus Morris' season, he's been so important to them in ways that other more talented players should have been. Yeah, we were talking about this briefly in the office yesterday. I think that there's like a point where like the hottest stake is that none of these players are actually all that good or not as good as we thought they would be. Whereas you had Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown

kind of playing above their heads last year and maybe they're coming down to Earth. Al Horford is older. He's been hurt. Kyrie Irving has a metal rod in his leg. Gordon Hayward had one of the most gruesome injuries we've seen for a while. And so there's almost like this perfect storm element

where we thought that these players all together would be one of the most talented teams in the league. And in actuality, like all of the things that could go wrong seem to have gone wrong on an individual basis. Well, I think Orlando is a good example of why all of that is happening. Because in Orlando, basically, I mean, the last shot was dramatic. That's when Kyrie wanted the last shot, but it was given to Tatum.

The bench basically lost that game. And Terry played really poorly. And that's an example of what's gone on with this whole team. Because Terry has not been able to adjust to coming off the bench. He's not been able to adjust to that role all season. It's the same thing when everywhere you look around. Jalen Brown has not been able to adjust the fact that Gordon Hayward is one and he's one A. It's like the season of more but after only one season.

Like everybody wants more, you know, touches and more and more playtime and more of that, you know. And it's like they're so unbalanced compared to imbalance, sorry, compared to how they were last season that it's almost like, how is this the same team? And granted it isn't, right? Because Carrie's fully back and Gordon Hayward's fully back. But I do find it kind of interesting that you mentioned Stevens, because I'm sort of developing this opinion that I feel like more, he deserves a little more criticism because I feel like part of being a coach isn't just, you know,

dexas and O's, but also like managing those egos and that situation. And I'm not sure it's been done the best way. Like you mentioned he should pick eight, nine guys and go with him. The problem is that's not how he operates. Like he uses everything he has, but that's in turn created this kind of weird version of this team that's not working most of the time.

Right, and he even came out after Kyrie's comments after the Orlando game, after Stevens didn't draw up the play for him. And Stevens said, yeah, I like player feedback. It's good. It's important. And I'm like, dude, you can't be the cool RA right now. You have to establish some kind of order. So anyway, onto my trade.

Okay, so this is the one that I woke up in the middle of the night and thought of. So just take it with a grain of I was passed out. Okay. So the Celtics don't want to make a trade. They don't want to get rid of one of their picks. Right? It's four huge picks because they probably want to save him up. And do you want to say it?

I know you want to say it. For any. For any need it. Yeah. Okay. But in the end, you could argue that the Celtics have already had enough change and they just kind of need to organize what's going on. Okay. My argument is that they need to fix the Hayward problem.

Mm-hmm. And originally in the middle of the night, I thought maybe they could do that by trading him for, Nicola Vouchovitch Okay Now that doesn't work straight up And so you're going to ask me What else would you pair onto that And I'm telling you

Moskav Oh good God You Wow this really was in the middle of that I was listening for a little bit But I think I'm out at Mazov Because he has another year on his deal He's one more year

Yeah They have enough They have enough to get rid of him Yeah Okay and then they have the space for AD And of course You have to take advantage of teams like the magic because they're never going to get free agents. So Vucchavich is on an expiring.

They want someone like Hayward that just has to be there. Okay, anyway, so I woke up, I realized that that probably was not going to happen in that. I'd get fired by Bill Simmons for saying that. Okay. So then I'm thinking, let's go Terry, right? Like, let's go Terry or like, let's get Terry out of here. Let's get Terry out of here. Yeah. Wow. I want him to have a new situation as well. He doesn't seem happy. He's a restricted free agent. They could also lose him as well. It seems like he's been on the table all season. after very ironically not being on the table for the other years of his career. I guess like, well, just on that point, like if you're worried about Kyrie, like, I understand holding onto him until now.

That's my only thing. Sure, exactly. I still think you make the trade for Vucovich, but with Rosier, because the magic could resign him, right? He's a restricted free agent. Then they have their point guard of the future. It's hard for them to bring anyone in. I think it's easy to pray on a team like The Magic. You'd still probably have to throw something in.

But Vujavich is on an expiring. I like the second one more than the first. Definitely. Just because Horford's back and healthy, and like you mentioned, I think Baines is a pretty critical part of what they're doing. If only because he just doesn't need to be fed, you could just kind of throw it in there and just do all the dirty work. I think if I'm Orlando,

I say to myself, why can't I just throw a big offer at Terry in the offseason? Because the Celtics are going to have so many divided options and things to take care of, including Anthony Davis. I wonder if you hit them at the right time with a rich enough offer. They already have Marcus Smart on the books. They already have Tatum to pay and think about years down the road. It's getting pretty pricey.

I'm like... Well, because they wouldn't be able to do it straight up. Terry's not paid enough. But also because the Celtics would have to throw in something. But you wouldn't have to throw in much. It doesn't have to be one of these four coveted picks, their own draft pick, the Kings pick, the Grizzlies pick, the Clippers pick. I think what's so weird about the Celtics is like we're creating a trade for them

out of the need to have a trade to shake things up but not because we're like you know it's not like another team or we're like oh they need a wing or they need a ball handler or they need a bait Celtics don't really like what's like something you can say that they need and it's like I don't know how I feel about just making a deal for the sake of making a deal I get that like

maybe you do need to move somebody who is perhaps not happy with a role and that's totally fine but that's why I have a hard time finding like a good deal for them that I'm going to that I like because I just don't know what they need it. They don't really need anything like out of the order. No, that's fair. And that's what Terry said.

They're just too talented. That's, I mean, that's what one player on your team is saying. So I agree. I'm saying I like this because I'm worried for the Celtics and he's on expiring. You don't really have a lot to lose. But at the same time, I think that if you're going to change anything, it just needs to be that you need to establish who your guys are and roll with them. and not decide that this is how it was supposed to be.

These two max guys, these three max guys, who it was supposed to be. Okay, we're going to go to our next team on our doctor sheet. What do doctors hold? Like a log line? Clipboards. Clipboard. Yeah, sure.

We're going to go on the clipboards to the Los Angeles Lakers. Paulo, give us your diagnosis. You know, that's pretty good. The Lakers are in a weird spot because, you know, you would think that there's got to be some desperate. I mean, they barely beat the bulls the other night. They have not looked good without LeBron. They don't look anything like a playoff team without LeBron.

And thus, they have fallen out of a playoff team without LeBron. And that's a combination of the decisions they made in the offseason to outfit that roster with a bunch of just a weird fit of players. And Rondo also being out doesn't help. So I'm very careful about kind of making the case that they should go and make a trade and be desperate. And I know that we have, you know, said, you know, the Lakers missed their chance with Paul George. You know, they missed their chance with Kauai, perhaps this summer. You know, I know we've said that because they haven't been as urgent. But I think this is this kind of scenario.

The way I feel about the Lakers right now is that this is not an important year. Like this is very much a – and I think that LeBron's injury kind of points to that as well. You know, the latest news was that he'll start practicing next week. And then after that he'll start coming back, which is going to have silent him for at least six. weeks, I think. And that's like, in total or around there, you know, that that's kind of what the reported timeline was. Remember when he was only supposed to be out like a couple days? Yeah, I mean, I don't know what happened with that.

But like, there doesn't seem to be a huge sense of urgency. And what, how worse does it have to get for there to be that kind of sense of urgency? Because they have not looked great without him. So it's clear that they need him. And, you know, people are saying, you know, if they were in the playoffs, the problem to play. So then what does that say about how he kind of perceives the season? Maybe it's just a feel-it-out season, you know, kind of grab, get his bearings in L.A. and just get a sense of the place and get, I mean, because he did sign a three-year deal with an option.

So I don't think they need to go out and make some huge deal to try to win this year or really make a run. You know, I don't. It kind of speaks to their entire situation where it's like they're probably playing for next season, yet they still want to make a good show of things. They want to develop their guys and they probably want to appease LeBron. Exactly. And I just think that this has been a small. but significant indictment of their lack

of maybe total development with the young guys and granted it's hard it's tough to ask them to spend half the season trying to fit in with LeBron and the second half of the first half trying to then be as productive as they need to be without LeBron there so I do like the idea and you know we were we're to talk to Voochovich I do like the idea of him

on the Lakers a lot of Vooch is a lot of Vooge talk yeah I mean I just think he would be really exactly what they need like Luke Wollin made a lineup change the other day because he felt he had to. And it was essentially swapping out to Ville McGee for Tyson Chandler. And it's like, that's all you need to know about their bigger rotation. There are the guys, Subotch, who is

very young, very inexperienced, very raw. And I think if they were somehow able to get Vooch, like, that would be a very nice second half ad. Are we out on Jonathan Williams? He's gone? You know, I think they should give him another run, but he's just in the G-League right now, so. It's tough, tough for him.

We were really hype on him early in the seasons. Yeah, we really were. We read a blog on Jonathan Williams. I just love how he fell his name. It is a great spelling, yeah. So I don't know, Vooch and KCP, maybe, you know, like that. So Vooch for KCP? Yeah, just something like that. I think KCP is like, actually like...

Why would the magic do that? No, I think for the magic you'd probably have to throw in a sweet. Yeah, no, yeah, you would definitely have to throw in something else. But I'm just saying, like, he seems a little... Crenton. He's been very important lately because Josh Hart is not as good on the floor without LeBron there. So KCP's been a better option because he's a little more of a self-starter. but I think eventually

KCP feels kind of like the the guy you need to get rid of Yeah exactly Yeah no I don't I don't hate that I think for the magic I think if you could pretend As if you're still going for that eighth seed In some regard it's like a good thing to sell to your fans

While simultaneously taking a step back I think DJ Foster wrote about this for the ringer About some potential Vucevic trades And I think he focused on the Clippers and the Lakers And he had a similar setup to you Where I forgot who was coming back to Orlando to make the salaries matches. But he tacked on a first round pick

because they already have enough young guys and I do wonder if LeBron wants another young guy on that core. And also our guy, Mo Wagner. Yeah. I think he would be the... Like, he would make sense as to Theron for sure. He's the type of guy that the Lakers probably aren't going to use going forward, but he's the type of stretch big that the magic

would be losing in Vouch and wouldn't have amongst their crew of 30 long athletic big men. And then they can kind of establish himself as like, okay, we're building around Bamba and Isaac and kind of moving forward as a young team. Though I don't know how Steve Clifford would necessarily feel about that. Can I throw one out there? Let's go.

Because I was thinking about the Lakers last night a little bit. I feel like, to your point, I think that they're in a position where they can try a bunch of stuff. Sure. This year is kind of found money. They have LeBron. I bet you they're like just raking it in at the gates and just in terms of revenue and all that.

I feel like they're the type of team that can maybe take a chance on one Markell Fultz. This is terrible. So the Sixers need a shooter, and it does feel like Josh Hart, although we love him, seems like he's kind of on the outskirts at this point. I feel like...

He plays really, really well when LeBron is on the court with him. He's one of the few guys who has made it work when LeBron's on the court. I would 100% do it if I'm the Sixers. Are you kidding me? I would do it in a heartbeat. So basically, straight up, Josh Hart for Markell. No.

No. No, what's he, what's he sex? What do the Lakers have to get out of this? That they could potentially get one of the, like, the best prospects in the 2007 draft class for like nothing. They have enough, quote, unquote, top prospects that they're waiting and trying to develop into these superstars. I don't, I don't know if you can sell me on this one because like, Hart is way better, obviously. Yes. He's actually an NBA player playing an NBA games.

But I just feel like it's a type of risk or reward. move that you can afford when you have a LeBron, when you have so much of like, in terms of like, they're like the Celtics in terms of assets, but in actual raw young players, not just draft picks. I would,

I think this would make a lot more sense if it was like for KCP. Because I think he would help the Sixers right now. Yeah, no, that's a good point. I didn't think about that. I don't even want this for Markell because it's just you're taking it to the biggest market.

A bigger spotlight. With the biggest superstar. Yeah, the spotlight grows like a hundred times. He already has such a large one on him. It would be pretty cool to see him get back to, like, top pick talent that he had in L.A. Imagine Markell, Lanzo, LeBron, Ingram. Your Los Angeles Lakers. I would go and see that.

I mean, worst case, he's in the South Bay and he's playing on the South Bay later. Hey, that would be great. I would love to go watch him. Watching Markell and just like a, isn't it still the Lakers practice facility? They play at the Lucas Practice Society. That's a good vibe. I want to see that. Yeah, it is.

That food trucks? It's a great vibe. Yeah, the Lakers are still going to be interesting here. We'll see what they're going to do without LeBron. It seems like there's still going to be a lot of Lanzo time, going to be some Ingram time in there. They're playing the Thunder tonight. I think that's always going to be an interesting game

just because Paul George is facing off against the team that he could have been on the other side of his life that he just didn't. The road not taken. That's what I'm going for. There you go. I'm really good at this guys, I promise. That game is on T&T.

That's at 6.30 p.m. Pacific. We do Pacific time here. We don't do Eastern Time. I'm done pan to an East Coast market. And remember, if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA Leaguepasser on MBA.com, Amazon or your local cable or satellite provider.

All right, you guys took all the big markets and all the splashy kind of trade talk here. I'm going to go on the other side of things. I'm going to go with the Memphis Grizzlies. I feel like the writing is on the wall with this team. It just feels like they made a push for it. They were in discussions for Kelly Ubre, which I think would have ended up like pretty much doing exactly what they need,

which is a guy who could play on this team and maybe be a piece going forward. Fortunately, they ended up with Justin Holiday. I don't think he's made much of a difference there. They are one in nine, I believe, in their past 10 games. They're already seventh worst in the NBA. I feel like it's time to tank. Marcus Saul is saying that potentially, well, this is a Mark Stein report that he might not opt into his last year of his contract. And all of a sudden, he's a guy that I think you could jettison here

and turn toward the future. RIP, Grinand Grind, RIP Grin' Grind 2.0, which we tried for a month, but wasn't all that interesting. So all of my trades, I have three for you guys, because I was on the trade machine

all night pretty much. I was having a lot of fun just in my apartment alone on my couch, just with house hunters on in the background. I love it. Just throw in there. First trade. This is for your guy, Gordon Hayward.

So Marcus Saul and Garrett Temple, who you need to throw in there, I think, to make the money match. for Gordon Hayward. I think it's interesting because for the Grizzlies, you're not going to get a lot of free agents down there. So if you want to reboot, but don't want a hard reboot and go back to where you're pretty much in the tank for another couple of years, and I think considering that ownership there just paid to buy out his other minority owners, I think they can't really bottom out. I think that market is one that kind of waxes and wanes depending on how good the team is. So you really want to sell an

attract a product. I think Gordon's the type of guy you buy low on and hope that maybe next year he becomes the guy he used to be. And all of a sudden, you have a nice core of Conley, Jaron Jackson Jr., who we all love, and Gordon Hayward. I would take that risk only because not a lot of free agents are going to come to Memphis. Right. And I think the Gasol time seems all but done. You know, I think the report was that he was going to test for agency, you know, the subcommittee. So it makes sense, if you can get a player like Hayward, like, I don't know how how the Celtics would feel about that. I think it would have liked to have Gasol maybe two years ago,

but not anymore, and that's the tough part. It may be kind of an indictment on the Grizzlies for not going this route earlier. But I don't, I think that could be interesting if both teams feel like that would help them right away. Yeah, it's a little awkward fit with the Celtics just because of you mentioned with Vucevich. They do have a lot of big men. But I do think he's the type of guy who, like Baines last year, I think you could start him next to El Horford, move Al-Forford, to more of a four-spot, which is what he started his career with next to

where's their center in Palmissa? Yeah. Pomosa. Yeah. There you go back. It's been a while. And then they're playing bigger up front and as opposed to what they are now, which is a little bit more stretchy

with Gordon kind of flashing to the forest at certain times. I think it could be interesting. Definitely makes trading for AD a little more difficult because if they saw ops back into that last year of his deal, Horford also has an option going into next year. So I think like maybe he would be put off and look elsewhere sort of thing.

So it's a little bit. dicey, but I think it might be interesting for this year. Gassal's also somebody that you could trade again. Yeah, that's another good point. If he does opt in, you can just kind of send him to San Antonio to hang out with Paul. All right, next one. This is the least interesting one, so we can go quickly on this. But it's two our New Orleans Pelicans. Gassal. Your New Orleans Pelicans. You'll come around eventually.

Gassal and Temple for Julius Randall, Solomon Hill, West Johnson, and a top three protected first round pick. It's good for Pelicans I don't know I don't like the Gasol fit that much But it's interesting He's pretty boogie-like In terms of his skill set

Right And less aggressive I just think he would bog them down a lot And I think they're their best I mean I don't know Maybe the best way to counter the warrior's style Is to go a little slower You know there's always that right

I mean we last season like you said The Boogie AD combo We thought that was going to give the Warriors some trouble So maybe that's That's kind of the better way to go I do like adding temple, I guess, you know, in some way because they do kind of need just more serviceable players. It is concerning, though, to trade away that many assets for the Pelicans because they already seem kind of short-handed. Yes.

And you're not really replacing things that you are getting back. Right. That's why I throw Temple in there just because, as we are going to get into later in the show, like, it does seem like they need a small forward. They haven't had one in a really long time. It's basically a salary dump and you're getting a first back. for Memphis, which feels pretty disappointing just because you've gone this far and all of a sudden, you know, Marcusol is just a salary dump.

I'm really intrigued by the fit with AD just because I do think, to Powell's point, like while they have been at their best with AD playing more center, I think their way to raise their ceiling a little bit would be to go back to big ball. This last one is my favorite one. Also, not all that sexy, but I think it makes a lot of sense for both ones.

and if Flottie DeVec wants to give me a call and give me an assistant jam job, I totally understand it. Gassal and Shelvin Mack for Zach Randolph's expiring, Costa Cufels expiring, Harry Giles, and one of the more confusing

second round pick protections I've ever seen in my life where it's the, I think the second most favorable of Cleveland, Orlando, and Houston next year. Wow. Essentially, this is

the Kings filling out their lineup and just becoming, like the EuroLeague All-Star team. They're five, who I love this team just on paper, is Fox, Buddy, Bogdan, Bellanelli, not Bellinelli, Bielitsa, and Marcus Saul.

How do we feel about this? This is interesting, but again, it's the same concept. The kings are at their best when they're running, and Gasol would throw a wrench in that. That's a great point. And I don't know if they're ready to give up on Jalzi. I mean, he's been looking pretty, like,

service boy. I think it's just another year. The kings are looking ahead. Right. If Gassal ops in, then that could bog them down. But then again, you could trade him again. Sure. But it is interesting to think about what their priorities are.

I know that they want to make the playoffs, but like heading forward, do they want to exchange some of these young assets they have for somebody like a song? You know, I don't know, it's kind of unclear to me. I think, I mean, Giles and Triple J and Memphis would be pretty fun if Giles pans out. That would be really, that would be a really fun to watch. Something that the Kings do need is rebounding in rim protection.

Desperally. I think it makes sense for both. Grizzlies get a nice young big there. I think I'm curious to see if Giles and in Triple J, I guess is what we're calling him now, would be able to play together. They get a good second round pick. It's probably going to be one of the top couple in that second round. And then Zibo gets to retire a grizzly. That's the best part about this deal. That's a, yeah, it's an emotional journey for him. So I like that. All right, that's enough from the doctor's office. We're going to take a quick break and talk some Pelicans.

This episode is brought to you by the Showtime original comedy series Black Monday from executive producers Seth Rogan and Evan Goldberg. It's 1986 Wall Street, bad fashion, big hair, and bigger egos abound. The Old Boys Club has all the power until an unruly group of underdog traders decide. It's their turn to be on top and accidentally caused the biggest stock market crash in history, starring Don Cheitel, Andrew Rennals, and Regina Hall. Black Monday premieres this Sunday at 10 p.m. only on Showtime. To try a free month of Showtime, go to Showtime.com and enter code Ringer.

This offers for first-time subscribers only and expires February 24th. And we're back talking about teams at the trade deadline, some of the more interesting ones. We talked about the Kings last week with Riley McAtee. I thought at the time they're probably the most interesting team, but the Pelicans, our New Orleans Pelicans are in a pretty similar situation. They're 21-24 right now, clinging to. the playoff race. They're probably one of the more active teams going into the trade deadline and to talk about them. We brought on a expert live from New Orleans, the New Orleans Advocates

Own, Scott Kushner. How's it going, buddy? I'm good, Justin. Still missing my ESPN partner from back in the day. I know. We were only together on the beat for about a year and a half, but I feel like it stretched about a decade of my life. It felt like a decade. It was a traumatic 18 months. How have you compensated without me? You know, just written more horrible things about a horrible team. Yeah, that's honestly what my main takeaway when I watch a lot of these games are, that everything seems to have changed and yet at the same time nothing has changed.

Because here we are in the middle of the season. When they're at their best, they seem like they can hang with most teams in the league. And I think you saw that last night with the way they kind of push the Warriors. and then they beat the clippers the game before. But then other times, it seems like they're a completely different team. The injuries stack up, and I don't really know what to make of them. I think probably the best place to start here is, does that feel same to you? Does it just feel like kind of history repeating itself?

Yeah, I think I'm writing a column today, and the only word that kept popping into my head, which I don't think I should use the new favorite column, is like it's Sisyphus-like. Oh, wow. They continue to just like push and they're not going anywhere. Like it's the same story over and over again. And it's like, I don't know. They scored 140 points and 48 minutes last night. It lost.

Yeah. That's crazy. And it's crazy. It's just like opportunity and luck that just never work at the same time together. And they just like work against them constantly. And it's like there's always, it feels like every franchise has like this. this chance and they kind of make it, you know, like the sliver of opportunity comes up and they find a way to pounce on it. And this team, every time that sliver of opportunity comes up,

they find a way to completely fail. And it's so strange as to why that continues to happen. And this season in particular, I think, is the most disappointing for a lot of people just because it looked like finally things that kind of come together last year. And there were so many good vibes entering this off season. And then, you know, the thing with the Marcus happens, but it looked like they had compensated for it fairly well. There was a ton of optimism when they started 4-0. And then, like, everything that has ever gone wrong for this team,

like it was just rinse repeat. We've seen all this 100 times before. Right. Yeah. Even just from, like, a statistical standpoint, their third on offense, 25th in defense, that was always the thing that struck me the most is that somehow with Anthony Davis probably the best two-way player in the league. they still can't find that correct balance where they're good on both ends.

It really kind of came down to that stretch last season after they lost boogie, where they were able to kind of meld the two with Nico playing off of AD. Do you think a lot of the fact that they're back and they're reverting back to that sort of flawed structure, I guess, or however you want to say it, do you think that's because Nico has been hurt so much this year? It hasn't helped, but he hasn't gained something like that. I just, I don't know exactly what the reason is. at the drop off is so drastic defensively, because they were like a top five defense

in the second half last season. And that's without DeMarcus. And, you know, it's just like you mentioned there. Drew Holliday and Anthony Davis, our first team, all-NBA, all defense. I mean, that is crazy to have a team that's 25th in defense with two guys like that. Two very high-plus guys.

Alfred Payton is not a bad defender. Julius Randall is not a good defender at all. I do think that has hurt them more than they probably anticipated. But it shouldn't account for this much for a problem. The fact they don't have a traditional three, I think hurts them from time to time defensively, particularly in certain matchups like against the Warriors, for example. But there's really not a huge explanation other than they have been banged up,

and they just haven't played very hard defensively a lot of times. And I think it's really hurt them this year. Scott, I don't know if you've heard this before, but they haven't had a true three since Quincy Pondacks there. I'm going to go back to Trevor Reeser, quite frankly. Yes, seriously. In this day and age, if you don't have those type of players up and down your roster, you're going to struggle.

And for them, they've had to kind of piece together different lineups going with three guards at times, playing more big guys. They're doing a little bit of the Nico Randall AD lineup, right? Yeah, it's a lot of – they're doing some of that. It's not a ton. I mean, Nadeco just got back a few games ago. it's really more that every time Drew Holiday or Anthony Davis, but mostly every time for holiday steps off the court, it's a dumpster fire on defense.

It is a complete disaster. I think he's got to have one of the biggest spreads of plus minus, you know, on and off the court in the league. I think it's like 21 points based on and off, and he hasn't missed a game this season. So it's not as if that's being, you know, issued by sample size or, you know, it's just bad. they really don't have anyone else who can do anything like he does. And it's in one half because Durali is an excellent player. He's definitely a huge contributor to them both ends.

But it's also really exposes their depth and exposes just how few options that Alvin Gentry has that are actually reliable. I mean, he's playing Tim Frazier, at least in the last couple of games, he's playing Tim Frazier a ton of minutes. And it's just because he has no other offers. Tim Frazier got cut by Milwaukee. in October. And he got added in the day the season started. It's not, I mean, these are bad option. That he's having to run out in the back court.

And it's clearly a huge problem. And it does hold them back. And it's a reason that they keep losing all these close games is that they lose so, they lose just tons of ground, all these games in the middle of them. I know we mentioned there. So people have mentioned this before, kind of the switch from last season going from Rondo to Alfred Payton,

but I'm wondering, you know, up close how, I know Payton's been a little injured, but has he been that much of a drop off from Rondo that that's also hurting them? Because I guess when I look at the team, I'm also thinking like where else are they going to, like you said, the three position is a problem and it's always been. But if they don't make a move, like where else should they demand more from? Is it from Peyton? Yeah, I think Peyton is not the issue. The issue is Peyton missed 30 games.

And that really hurt them. their record with Alfred is, you know, winning at the clip that a 50-win team or 55-win team, he is not, you know, he's not the answer, I think, at point card. I don't think he's quite as good as Rondo, but he fills most of the role that Rondo does on the floor. I think he's probably runs a little bit better than him as far as getting up and down and being able to actually stop people and get in front of them. It's, you know, he does not have that leadership. He doesn't exude those type of qualities that I think this team misses a lot, especially in close games.

Even though Ronner didn't play a lot in those close games, he did provide them some confidence. He provided them some intangibles that I'm not sure they totally realized how much they would miss when he was gone. I think there was a lot of expectation that Holiday and Davis were ready to kind of carry that leadership role by themselves. And that might have been a bit premature or just a bit asking too much at a guys who are not those types of personalities. And so Rondo, that is an interesting situation because there's a lot of stuff there that doesn't necessarily have to do with, you know, what you can look at a stat, what you can look at an on-off. And even what you can see is replaced by Alfred Payton, who's a really quiet guy and someone who's well-liked. But if not, does not carry the command and the respect that Rondo does. Yeah, that was my only reason why I was critical of losing Rondo.

I definitely recognize all of his flaws, especially on the defensive end, and it seems like he's hurt every year now. He misses 20 or so games. But it just seemed like in this critical of a season where AD was obviously going to go into the summer and make a pretty big decision in terms of his long-term status there, like why you would rock the boat there. I guess ultimately they didn't have a decision to make because the Lakers offered Rondo such a huge contract. But it was disappointing in that the one time that they seemed to have something going for them

it just kind of got disrupted, especially with the way Boogie kind of just left in the middle of the summer. It really bothered a lot of people in the Pelicans, too, the way that it happened with Rondo. I think the coaching staff

really wanted him back. That was a huge point of contention. And I don't think it's so much Dell's fault. I think he probably could have played it more aggressively. Del Demp's the general manager. He's not a household name.

I would think of this stuff like that. Trader Dell. We know all about him. Dealer Dell, yeah. Dealer's, sorry. We're working for alliteration. It's been a while. You know, I think he probably, and Rondo's come out and bet as much, you know, which is that he felt the pelicans could have been more aggressive at the onset of all this.

But when it came down to it, that Lakers offer, I think was going to be his best offer regardless. Now, he might say that he might say that he. he would take less money or whatever it was. Maybe there were more years from the Pelicans, but they really were not in position to offer really any more than what they did. And quite frankly, they needed to fill the role that DeMarcus cousins left behind, and that was the

Julius Randall signing. So in a lot of ways, it all made sense. But it is the problem you have when everything you do is based on these one-year contracts. Right. That you run into this every single year, that they're constantly trying to figure out how to plug holes. And if they turn this around and have a great second half of the season again, and they roll into the playoffs and everything looks good,

you're still going to figure out a way to try to sign. E.comerittich, try to sign Alfred Payton, and try to sign Julius Randall. And it's pretty much impossible, not to mention bringing Anthony Davis back. So, you know, I mean, I know he's guaranteed, but I've got to try to find, you know, to sign an extension, just, you know, FYI. So it's just like there's a million balls in the air. all the time, and it just doesn't feel like there's much of a long-term plan when it comes to how this is going to look going forward.

Yeah, and I guess the one flip side of that is their aggressiveness, how bold they've been the past two deadlines has really paid off from them. Obviously, Boogie two years ago, we saw that one firsthand. And then last year, it seemed like Nico Militrisch was probably one of the better trades that was executed at the deadline, considering what they paid up for him. They also got off of Omer Oshik's contract, which was pretty helpful going forward. Do you see that same thing happening going into this deadline, that they're going to be aggressive and try to make something happen?

They've been very aggressive over the past, you know, a few months. They want to make something happen. They want to improve the team. Any idea that they're going to trade AD at the deadline and start over anything that is wrong. I mean, something could drastically change, I suppose, the next few weeks, but their focus is entirely on getting the team better and trying to get into position where they can make a run, under the postseason and, you know, make some noise and think that that is going to be the

thing that triggers enough optimism in Anthony Davis that, you know, he'll sign to be the richest player in the history of basketball. That seems far-fetched at the moment, but it is possible if you make the right move. And yeah, the NICO deal was great. I think that worked out perfectly for them. But again, you know, you sacrifice the first-round pick, and now you have a free agent on your hand coming up this summer. And it's just kind of the continuation of a cycle that you're always losing these picks and you're always getting kind of a good player in the short term. But it's hard to make to, you know, keep that guy going forward. And you never really have quality players on cheap deals, which has been their biggest flaw. And it's why their

depth is always so limited. Yeah. But having said that, you know, I've been telling these guys the past two weeks, believe it or not, I've been a big optimist. Just because they're back at full strength. They look good when they have all of their starters in there. It makes a lot of sense. It reminds me much more of last year than earlier in the season. I don't know. I mean, at the end of the day, they still have two top 25 players. And I do wonder if they get into the mix here, if they find that wing or maybe like another plus ball handler who's like a pretty big upgrade from Peyton, who can play off a Drew really well. I do wonder kind of like how much they can climb here. Do you think like, I guess, first of all, what do you think they're

going to focus on, and if so, do you think that they could get into the mix for the top four in the West? I think top four seems like a stretch, but just because of the teams that are in front of them. You're such a hater, Scott. Why are you such a significant? I think they're in the playoffs. There's a lot of really good teams in there that are really are. The problem, and you're right, I completely agree with you that when they're healthy, that they can be really good. And that's what they've all kind of said the whole year is like, look, we haven't been healthy, and so we don't know what we are and all this kind of stuff. And it's like, not a lot of teams are healthy. it's really hard to be healthy the whole year.

Like, that doesn't happen very often where you're not having 10 to 12 games stretches without your guys. Now, they've had it worse than some other teams, like because Peyton has missed so much time and Baird has so much time. Drew Holliday has played every single game. You know, Anthony Davis missed four. So it's not as if they're this, you know,

their superstars are getting hurt. It's not like losing Chris Paul like Houston has. It is, you know, they're healthy right now. So we'll kind of see what that. they have. And I think that'll give them a good idea of what they need at the trade deadline. But there's no guarantee that stays together. I mean, someone's going to get hurt in the next 40-something games or 38 games.

It just doesn't seem like a feasible plan to say, okay, as long as everyone stays healthy, I think we're going to be pretty good because it just has never happened in the history of this team. And to think that it's going to happen now is a little unrealistic. Yeah, I guess my reason for optimism is just that it feels like they just need depth. If they just had two or three guys to line the back end of their roster, then all of a sudden, if you lose a Niko for a couple games, if you lose a pain, it won't matter as much. And so I do wonder if their answer isn't, you know, a superstar, isn't a Kevin Love type,

obviously he's hurt, but he's not going to, so he's not going to be in the mix, or like a Marcus Saul type. It's actually getting a Baysmore plus like a D'Andre Bembert or some of these other guys in the mix. there. Yeah, I mean, there's a ton of options when you start, especially if you start to see some of these teams sure a little bit. And they're, you know, the Pelicans, I would be shocked if they don't trade their first round pick this year, regardless of what happens over the next two weeks. It just seems like that's something that that is going to be their best asset that they can give up. And yeah, there's, I mean, there's enough guys out there and it's hard to know exactly what direction they're going to go in. But the idea of them bringing Eden either. a ball handler who can help out Peyton and Holiday off the bench. And that seems like it would not be a terribly expensive thing to get. Somebody like that who would eliminate you having to play Tim Frazier and those type of guys. And then if they can, the shot at the moon that they want to take that they're trying to take is to go get Bradley Beale. I don't think it's realistic.

It seems really hard for them to be able to pull that off. but that's the kind of move that is a game changer that can really make them and a team that can keep Anthony Davis here in their eyes. So, I mean, they went after Jimmy Butler really hard. That was a very real thing that happened. It's not as if they're sitting on their hands trying to do nothing and see what happens in May. They're going after talent. I don't know what they can get. They don't have a ton of assets that anybody really wants, except for,

that first round pick and some bad contracts that will eventually expire. Bradley Beale. Frank Jackson. I'm, like, weirdly into Frank Jackson as, like, a bench option that brings a lot of energy. Maybe I'm a little biased because I watched him work out a little bit this summer with the holidays. And he was, like, extremely athletic to the point where, like, even, like, Drew and Justin were, like, in awe of how athletic he could be. So I'm glad he's getting more minutes, though. So it is. And so guys have helped them a lot off the bench that they can, guys they can turn to that aren't just retreads in the league and have, you know, like are just floating around for that, you know, last couple years or whatever before they fall off.

Like Frank Jackson is someone who has a huge potential. I mean, he was as close as you get to a first round pick. They traded up to pick him at 31. He's incredibly athletic, like you said, he can shoot. He's still obviously raw just because he's a rookie. And then he had really. local for who is playing a lot better offensively than I ever expected and looks a lot more like the guy who came in as a top 10 pick. You know, still obviously is slow and those kinds of things. But you have guys with some talent back there who can do some stuff, it's just limited. And you can't rely on it too much. And it's why Holiday Davis played more minutes than anybody else in the league is because they just don't have a whole lot of guys back there you can trust for long stretches.

Dialo. That's our guy. Yeah, it's been rough. Yeah. He was Waconda saluting last year. He was in such a good mood and now he's just buried. It's incredible how he's never put weight on. He just seems like the same weight that he started, like, as a rookie three years ago. He can, he plays very hard. And that's the one thing that he really gets from him. He plays very hard. Let's talk about a boogie quickly. He's coming back on Friday. I know that's kind of something we're all excited about. You spent what, about two years with him. Yeah, about a year. Yeah, season and a half. It was eventful. To San Luis, yeah. I was only there for his first half after he got traded there at the deadline. What was your, what's your best boogie story, Scott? That you could tell on air. He's unbelievable, man. It's really hard. Like, in a league full of a lot of boring guys, and this team has had a lot of boring guys.

That's not necessarily in a bad way. Like, they have kind of good citizens, but like the boring. Yeah. He was just the best because he is insane. And I mean, he literally, he was in the locker room after the, so he's a big Alabama football fan. And during the National Championship game, I mean, he was like cursing out, he was in the line, he cleared out the entire locker. No one else was in there except the media and him.

And he did not stop cursing and yelling at the TV for like two full hours, watching the game. He was just screaming it, dude, the entire time. He is, she doesn't care when anybody really thinks of him. He is always out there. I mean,

I've heard stories of then just kind of driving through neighborhoods to Orleans handing out cash to people who they saw it were down on their lot. What? Just a weird situation. Like, just not at all what you would think with him.

And then some things that you would totally expect with him, where he's just like screaming a guy. guys on the practice court who definitely didn't do anything wrong to him and like almost getting in fights for no reason. I mean, he is this dichotomy that is very interesting to be around, but is also exhausting at the same time. Yeah, that's a really good way of putting it. I found him to be among the most charismatic people like I've ever been around. And like, we're around a lot of NBA players like LeBron's the world. There's something about him. I think part of it is because you want him to like you so much because if he doesn't like you, he will hate you.

Oh, yeah. He's got the scowl that, you know, is you can see from 100 miles away if he doesn't like somebody. Yeah, and so there's just that in and out quality with him. I just remember at one point, I have two things, which are one, he really liked my Jordans when I bought them and was probably who was a highlight of my reporting career just being validated by DeMarcus Cousins on my fashion. and the other one was him just randomly wanting to talk about Lonzo Ball. He just was really he was just really

curious why people liked Lonzo and I remember when I asked him who he thought was a good draft prospect because he was leading into that draft. He was like Bam, at a bio who's like his best friend from Kentucky and I was like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. There are a lot of other boogie stories like that but I'm not sure

a lot of them are good for him. When he wrote in that Mardi Gras parade and wore the panties on his head, I think that was like that was he was straight out of the bottle Hennessy and had panties on his head and was just riding down Canal Street

and full of glory in a lot of... In a lot of ways I think he took like he represented the city in a way that AD couldn't just from a personality standpoint obviously I think AD

like he clearly is done right by the city and it has been a great player for them and probably one of the best attractions they'll have in that basketball stadium it's just there's something about Boogie that is personality just jived with it. I mean, he's from nearby. And so I don't know if it's a southern thing or just like that kind of good nature, like southern hospitality sort of thing,

but there's just something about him that he immediately blended in. Yeah, he didn't sure it, man. There's really, and I mean, there were, were you still there when they played Sacramento for the first time? He literally wouldn't start the interview until like two TV reporters from Sacramento left the locker room. He was like, I'm not talking until these two guys leave. Yeah, I do remember. I think leading into that game, he wore a hat. from his own clothing brand that said loyalty. And also on his hoodie, there was a signal said loyalty. And he pretended because probably someone told him to like tread carefully about what you say about him.

He just like he would not answer the question. He just kept repeating, I'm going to play hard. And we're going to go out there and get that win with the biggest telling smile I've ever seen on his face. It was incredible. He's out there, man. I don't know how that's going to work in Gold Day, but I know it will be entertaining. about his divorce from New Orleans, though, quickly, has everything kind of repaired there? I mean, what is the status of, like, him and the organization that you can get a sense of?

He is fine. It sounds like, based on everybody I've talked to from his side, which is, you know, limited interaction, everybody that from the Pelican side seems to be fine with him, with the exception of the front office. And he seems to be fine with everyone except the front office. there was a very clear delineation in what they thought of each other entering free agency this year. He famously told Mark Spears that he never got an offer from the Pelicans, which is technically true, but isn't really true. I mean, they had come to an agreement of what the contract they were going to offer him was, but they didn't call him on the first day. And they kind of let it linger there, and they kind of tried to see what the market was going to be like for DeMarcus. he found that certainly insulting.

And then he went and kind of made the move on his own to go to Golden State. So he felt disrespected by the front office for sure, which he thought he still deserved to be a max player because they told him when they traded for him and everything afterward that he was going to be a max guy, he was the future of the team, all this kind of stuff. And then the second he got hurt, they probably smartly changed their calculus on it.

But I think that bothered him. and I think the way that he handled it then, basically telling, you know, ESPN, which ran it just unfiltered from DeMarcus, that he never got an offer, which made Dell look kind of dumb, but wasn't really true. And so I think there's definitely some mixed messaging there, and there's some hard feelings between those two. But Alvin Gentry always stands up for DeMarcus and always has. Anthony Davis still really likes DeMarcus and always. They know who he is. They know kind of the insane parts of him. But I would not say the divorce was ugly.

I think there's still a section of the fan base. It's still mad at him. But it's pretty small. And it's, you know, I don't think it's a particularly relevant storyline to most people anymore. Yeah. Well, it is here because we love the Pelicans. Yeah, yeah. Actually, what's funny is that you do something for so long, you almost can't divorce yourself from it.

And I get shit from people here because all I want to talk about is the Pelicans because I'm like the only person interested in them. I think they're fascinating. I think like, I've always said this. If they played in a bigger market, their palace intrigue is just as interesting as like the Lakers or some of these other teams.

It is. And it is totally different that like, we're the 50 second biggest market. And then the third biggest team in the 52nd. Breathless cover. It's called Juncture and this unbelievable, you know, inflection point in the history of this franchise.

And like, no one is paying attention because the saints are really, really good. this weird, like, they're going to pay attention. I know, like, the second the Saints season is over, it's going to be a really big deal, but it's really hard to gain attention from the league because the people here don't seem to be totally worried about.

I mean, the Anthony Davis thing has been covered all from the angle of, is he going to L.A. or is he going to Boston? And not from the angle of, is what are the Pelicans going to be able to get in return? Will they be able to rebuild this team? Will they be able to keep him? like it doesn't ever feel like New Orleans even matters in that conversation. It's all about kind of what the other side is going to get. Well, to be fair, they've had how many years to make it matter?

Totally. Yeah. I mean, it's completely their fault. I mean, that's why this season was so important to be like, okay, last year you made yourself relevant, can you make yourself relevant going forward? And they haven't so far. So, you know, it's totally earned. It's just that they do feel like a totally irrelevant piece of the league sometimes. Hey, what's second in the sports hierarchy?

Is it LSU gymnastics? LSU. LSU baseball, LSU gymnastics. We'll just loop the entire LSU sports arena into there. All right, I think that's a good place to stop. It's dark place to stop. Anytime you can drive LSU gymnastics on the record, you've got to, you know. It's great.

It's time to wrap it up. You guys wouldn't believe it, but LSU gymnastics, Tulane and LSU baseball is just huge down there, and I don't understand it. They are not bigger than the Pelican, LSU footballers in the Belkin. Okay, okay, yeah, I guess so. All right, that's it for us, for Haley, for Paulo,

for Scott, for Bobby Wagner, and for me. We'll see you next time. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.