The Ringer NBA Show - Playoff Jimmy, Giannis’s Postgame Comments, and the Early Success of Lower Seeds | Real Ones

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

Logan and Raja are back to discuss the Miami Heat making it to the Eastern Conference semifinals behind Jimmy Butler’s sensational play as well as the collapse of the Milwaukee Bucks (1:04). Next, the guys break down why many of the lower-seeded teams are finding early success in this year’s NBA playoffs, before previewing Thursday’s Celtics-Hawks matchup (30:45). Later, they look ahead at the upcoming closeout games (45:00). Finally, the guys close out with their Real Ones of the Week (53:55). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's a new year and I have a new podcast here at the Ringer, Offguard, hosted by me and my guy Pasha Higigi. Austin and I go way back and talk so much hoop already that we figure those time to fire up the mics and let you in on all of these conversations. Every week, Pasha and I will hit on the biggest stories happening in the league. And get Austin's perspective of someone currently hooping in the NBA. Tap into Offguard every Friday on the Ringer NBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. What is popping? Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Roger, I'm fresh off of the road.

I have just gotten back from Sacramento from a game that we will discuss later. But while I was at said game, all eyes were on Milwaukee and the out-of-town scoreboard at Golden One Center and just seeing the back and forth. I was sitting next to Ramona Shelburne yesterday, and we were just looking at the scoreboard

on the Golden One Center, right? We're seeing the bucks. We're going, we're going into the fourth quarter. See, the bucks are about 16. We're like, oh, this is good. This is cool. You know, there's going to be a series.

It's probably going to go seven games. You know, we're here. This is going to be a great series. The playoffs have been great. Let's fucking see a 3-1 deficit erased, right? And then we start seeing that lead trickle on down, or I was to just trickle on down. We had no idea of the grave mistakes

that the bucks were making down the stretch, just the insanity of how bad they were. And then also, just the play of Jimmy Butler. I saw the highlights this morning. I saw everything that we are going to discuss. But the first question is, does Jimmy Butler have mind control over the NBA, Raja? Does he have my control over the NBA?

Well, I think, I think when we were previewing the playoffs, and we were still in the playing. I referenced a series from a couple years ago with the bucks and the heat. And I thought the bucks were going to be too strong. I don't know that anyone saw this coming if you weren't a Miami Heat fan. But you had to acknowledge that the heat and Jimmy Butler are a problem in a way that it didn't really matter if they were an eight seed or whatever seed. They just, they played them tough in playoff series. They're not afraid of them.

They think that they have counters for what the bucks do. and Jimmy Butler, unlike really any other player, because I want to be fair to other players and Jimmy, like Jimmy's a great player. And other players certainly have had phenomenal playoffs series, right? Like in phenomenal playoffs and won championships. But Jimmy, unlike any of the rest of them, really does kind of turn into a different version of himself offensively.

And the playoffs, it's a really strange thing to watch. It's a, if more, people could do it. I'm sure they would. It's just, it's a Jimmy thing. And so he pops into this. And I love to watch him at press conferences say, no, man, I'd just be out here hooping. Like, it's not like that. Oh, it's like that. Like offensively, at least he turns into a different dude. And I can't imagine that Spowe and company is like, hey, man, now your role changed after 82 games. Okay, now we need you to do this. It's not like that. He just clicks into a different mode. I'm going to give you some stats, Roger. 42.7 points, 7.3 rebounds. 60% from

in the field, 45% from three point range. That is Jimmy Butler's stats. What was the last 45 from three? 45 from three, yes, 45.5 from three. So we can round that to 46. That is like Steph Curry numbers over the last three games. It started in game four where the bucks, and we're going to get into the buck side of this in a second, but where the bucks up double digits and Jimmy Butler says, no, I'm going to,

I'm going to put the whole city of Miami on my back. I'm going to do, I'm going to, I'm going to score every point down the stretch. I'm going to demoralize the opponent. I am going to win this game for us. And you saw a bit of that in game five, right? Where, you know, this is also a game where the heat could have just lost, right? Like, it wouldn't even be a bad, should have lost. They lost the game.

Should have lost. Wouldn't even be a big deal. Go back to Miami, wrap it up, similar to the Lakers in the Memphis Grizzly series that we're seeing, right? Maybe you could just say we don't have the legs. We exerted all the energy back in Miami. They were like, nah, we're going to close this shit out right now. So today, we're doing this right now. What does this say about both Jimmy Butler and also the Miami Heat going forward

where they have the Knicks and they have a legitimate shot at not just the Eastern Conference Finals? But if things go right, they could be representing the East and the finals as an eight seed. First of all, I want to give a lot. a lot of credit to the heat as an organization. This is what culture is about. And this is why it's important to find pieces that align with you culturally and fit into what you're trying to do, that their mentality is just not one that's going to allow them to go in there and say, hey, we just don't have it tonight.

And we're down nine in the fourth. So let's just pack it up and we'll get them at home. Like there's no, there's no part of the heat DNA that would allow that. And, you know, Jimmy is a prime example of that. Like, he embodies with that heat culture and what they stand for. And so there's no, there was no part of me that thought that they were going to fold the tent. I just felt like Milwaukee had it to some degree under control in a way that was going to allow them to get out of there no matter what the heat did. And I knew they weren't going to stop fighting.

But you got to give a lot of credit. obviously to Jimmy the Heat and Spoh and Company. But moving forward, I mean, anytime you extract the number one seed from the equation, you know, the number two seed is getting pushed a little bit in a way that we didn't see coming by Atlanta.

And then the number three seed is going to have a player playing at, I don't know, 70% with a knee brace and you don't know what that injury looks like. Anytime you tell me that, I mean, there's a shot. And we shouldn't really be surprised because the heat, You know, last year they were a shot away. You know, they represented the Eastern Conference a few years ago.

Now, here's why I didn't think the Heat were going to be able to do this. I mean, they hadn't played great offensively all year. And when you extract their second, you know, debatably their second option offensively, like I think Tyler Hero is their second best bucket getter. I don't know what the stats bear out with him and bam, but I think he's their second best bucket getter on an offense that wasn't very good in the regular season. I didn't think they could do that. I didn't think that they were going to be able to having a firepower to beat a team like Milwaukee. Now, I don't know, and I probably

shouldn't say this because it flies in the face of everything he just did. I don't know how sustainable it is for Jimmy to keep doing this. I'm not counting him out at all because I know better than that now. I got enough of a sample size, but man, that's a lot of heavy lifting offensively night in and night out. And I do think that there will be teams that do what Milwaukee he should have done, Logan, which is say, hey, fuck that. Anybody other than Jimmy. I think teams are going to do that.

Teams are going to do that. And when they do that, I don't know that the heat have enough to get all the way to the finals. I mean, you know, look, heat nicks, 90s basketball, throwback. That's like a rivalry game. Let's fucking go. So it's a rivalry series. Anything can happen.

But I do think that, you know, when you take away your second best offensive option and you're not a good offense to begin with. The chances of you navigating all the way through to the Eastern conference representative in the finals, I don't think that's likely. So that's interesting you say that, right? Because the biggest comp to this run that Jimmy is having is the bubble 2020 season, right? And there is a big difference in that. The big difference is Jimmy never had to travel. He never had to go through, you know, the rigors of that, right?

Like I just referenced, I just referenced Grizzlies Lakers, right? Correct. Not only was LeBron and AD tired after the game. They had to fly three and a half hours to go to Memphis, right? And that's what's going to be happening with the, with the heat for now on, right? They're going to, if Jimmy has a big game,

he's going to be tired, of course. I don't know what that means for anything, right? but like he's going to have to take flights and just do things that a normal NBA player is going to do. That's the one thing. Number two is, also to your point of just over-exertion and things like that, even if he gets to the finals and gets to the heat to the finals,

by that time, he's not going to have enough. It's just not going to happen. It can't work, especially if someone out of the east, say he plays a, They play the sons or they play the warriors or they play the nuggets or they play the Lakers. There's multiple scores on those other teams. There's multiple people that can get offense and sustain offense. I think it's possible.

But like I don't think that they won a title because that's just way too much to overcome for one guy. That's a lot. When's the last time in eight? I mean this because I don't have the answer. When's the last time in eight was their conference as representative in the finals? Do we have a stat on that? Hey, if we could get a stat on that guy. Search team. I appreciate that. We don't have a research team. But, Kai, it's highly unlikely. And I would just say this because I know what to pushback from a lot of people is going to be. And I respect the pushback because all of these guys in Tyler Hero's absence, Victor Olad Depot's absence had played great. Like Kevin Love playing great. Bam, stepped up. Like you've had Duncan Robinson, even though it wasn't last night, have moments. Gabe Vincent was great. Like you have people, Caleb Martin's been playing well. And that's all true. But none of those are, hey,

take this ball and get buckets to bring us home down the stretch of a playoff game type of player right now. Ben might turn into that. Kevin Love might have been that at one time. Like the other guys I don't think really fit into that mold. But the point is as teams start really locking in and getting the ball out of Jimmy's hands, which for whatever reason, Milwaukee decided it was better to let Jimmy cook them. And I don't have to understand that.

That was their decision. I think other teams are going to challenge those dudes to have to beat them. And even if Jimmy plays great, not give him the opportunity to have 56 and 42. Like maybe it's just 30 or 29 because we're limiting shot attempts by our defensive strategy. And then those other guys got to beat us over the course of seven. And I just don't see that playing out like that to the tune of a to an NBA finals appearance. And also playing against the Knicks, Jimmy's going to get his ass kicked. I mean, that's.

what it is. Tiv's going to put bodies on him and it's going to be a rough series for him. Even if he gets out of it, it's going to be tough. Like, the Knicks are a tough basketball team. What do you see in that matchup? Oh, man. Again, a lot of

the success or lack thereof for the heat is going to be predicated on how that supporting cast shoots the ball. You know what I mean? To keep New York honest. And conversely, a lot of the Knicks success is going to be based on whether or not they can figure out how to take Jimmy Butler's,

you know, ball dominant kind of playmaking, shot making style, limit its production. And at the same time, keep everybody else honest. We're not just giving you fucking freebies. Do you know what I mean? Like so, you know, that's the game, at least, you know, offensively for the heat and defensively for the Knicks. I think offensively for the Knicks, you know what they're going to do. Do you know what I'm saying?

difference between the heat, it wasn't defensively. That hasn't been the difference between them in the, in the, in the, uh, regular season and postseason. The difference has been their offense has come to life in a way that, again, if you saw I come in, hey, tap in. You know what I mean? Like even heat fans. Like I know fans are like, yo, we could win this series and kudos to you.

But if you saw this offensive like, uh, awakening coming, like tap in. I'd like to hear about it and tell me why. So what's South Florida feeling like right now, Ron? What's the energy down there? What's going on? How's it? We're on fire, man. We're on fire.

I was listening to some sports talk radio yesterday, taking my kids to school. And it was all about, like, yo, we could come in here tomorrow and it could be Nick's heat. You know, those were in my wheelhouse in terms of being a young basketball player. Like, I'm all for it. And I'm, you know, kudos to the heat. But I could have seen you playing in the heat in the heat, Nick's rivalry.

I could totally see you playing in. that fucking rivalry, bro. Like 95, 96, that's your bag. That's your fucking bag. That is my bag. And a lot of those dudes, like that heat team, those are cats that raised me, you know, in these Miami gyms when it was, you know, pros versus college players and pick up. And I was one of the young, really good high school players around here.

They would bring me in, let me get in games with them and, you know, mentor me a little bit and, you know, beat me up in a way that was, that was, going to be beneficial for me down the line, even though I didn't understand it at the time. So, yeah, I'm always in love with those series. And so it'll be fun to watch. I do think the game is played in the space of what is Miami able to do offensively coming off of a series like that, Jimmy Butler specifically, and what the next game plan and strategy is going to be to kind of limit that. Yeah. And, you know, fortunately, I got it done in five because they can get a little bit of rest, you know, going into the next series.

I imagine it might start Sunday. So you get a couple of days, maybe get to get some legs back. That's a good thing about winning in five. I do want to get to the Milwaukee point of view of this, man. Just, I was talking to Kai in the prepot, just perpetual bag droppers. All right? Like, I just, like, they deserve to lose a series. There's no way, there's no way at all that they, like, they never had a chance considering

the mistakes that they made, the egregious mistakes that they made, man. And I'm just going to go to game to game five at this point, right? The throwaway, the unexplicable throwaway from Janus, right? All the jump balls. After you catch the jump ball, you throw the ball out of bounds. You literally catch the jump ball, just dribble a little bit, get fouled, fucking shoot free throws. Win the game, right?

Right there. That's one thing. Then the grace at Allen was just, my goodness. my goodness, Russia. Yeah. What is that stem from? And does there need to be a change in Milwaukee? Because that's all the talk.

You talk about sports radio. All the talk of sports radio in Milwaukee and beyond is going to be talking about as coach Bud going to be, they're going to need to be a change at their coaching position. And honestly, after what we saw over the last two games from a strategic standpoint, it's looking grim. Okay, first of all, this series as a whole was fumbled by Milwaukee as an organization. Their approach to this series was so, we take this shit for granted lackadaisical.

It was comedic. Like, they were acting as if there was no possibility at all that Miami was going to beat them in this series. You could see it in the way they approached, you know, game one, albeit minus, Janus, right? Again, I don't know Janus's health, but you could see it in the way they kind of managed Janus in game three, you know, basically saying, hey, we're not going to roll him out. You know, we'll take care of this on the back end. We'll give him an extra day arrest. And I understand it. And I'm not a medical professional, but I tend to think he was a decent percentage of himself. And they just said, hey, if we can get him one more day,

we're going to handle this on the back end. So let's just let's get him the day. And then will take care of it. But all of that speaks to you just taking for granted what you're playing against. You know what I mean? So, like, I think they approached it like that. I think you saw it in the last game in Miami when everyone watching that game. I mean, everyone watching that game was like, you know, this shit's a rap. And Milwaukee just started to use a Loganism.

They just started fumbling the bag, just left and right, just giving it away. Now, I'll say this. So their whole approach from the organization. to the players to maybe even the coaches, it just seemed really, really loose for a, for a playoff, you know, championship level team, right? Does Bud and staff have some culpability in some of the shit?

Absolutely. But I tell you this, like Bud wasn't the one handing in Miami the ball back. He wasn't the one throwing the ball out of bounds and shit like that. Bud didn't miss, you know, Bud didn't miss all of them free throws last night. I'm trying to look up the free throws that Yannis missed

and as a team. 10 of 23. Yeah. Like Bud did it. Donis himself was like 10 of 23 from the field. You make those free throws that, you know, or half of the ones that you missed and the game is over. We're not in this situation. So while, yes, the coaching, you know, a lot of things down the stretch, especially the last play out of bounds where Jimmy Butler's got to basically pull a rabbit out of his ass to send you into overtime. Like strategically, you got Janus not on Jimmy.

you don't have, you know, big Brooke all over, I mean, all over the ball. Like there are some things I would have wanted them to do better. But that's not just the coaches. That's the players. That's the organization. And I think their whole approach to this was, we're nice. We got, this is about finals and they overlooked their opponent in a way that bit them squarely in the ass. Now, the honest injury was a tough one, right?

Because when you're overlooking a team and you're coming out on some bullshit, you could still beat them, but you couldn't afford for Janus to be out for basically three games and expect to win. Because you give them, like, the heat go up to one, they're ready to go. You just, when you do something like that, the other team builds confidence. They build confidence and they continue. And then, especially a team like the heat, which is a proud organization, we talk about heat culture, like basically once a month on this podcast. And you, it's one thing to do that against a lesser team. that you don't even want to say the name of teams that we could do.

But like a team, you could do that with any other team, but the Miami Heat, right? Because they start to get confidence. They start to grow. They start to see. And then they see the light of the end of the tunnel. Like, oh, fuck. Yeah, we're going to win the series. Then you have the Jimmy Butler games of like, oh, we see food when we see them play.

That's what happened in game five. I try to say it to the teams I coach. I don't know who agrees or disagree or would disagree with this. but is what I say to my teams. You can't give anyone hope. You can't give anyone hope. Now, if they have hope, because that's how they're built

and they ain't afraid and in the face of insurmountable odds, they still believe, and they've been conditioned to do that, then good for them. But we ain't going to give you hope by fumbling the bag and taking our foot off the pedal

when we have you down. When we have you down and we have you doubtful, and we can, and we dictate what that looks like, you got to stomp them out, foot on neck, no breath.

Do you understand what I'm saying? Like from a metaphorical type of like, that's our job as a competitor. Like I give you no hope that you can survive this situation. So if there's anything in you that says, hey, let's go home,

that part of you takes over. Because when you look over at me and the way I'm executing and the way I'm acting and the way I'm physical, you just say, hey, bro, it don't even make no sense to keep fighting.

We're done. But that's in any, competitive environment. So I sent you a clip, pre-pod. I'm not even sure if you looked at it. I didn't even, I didn't see it. But Janus says he got into it with a reporter. And he goes and he says, this season is not a failure.

It's just a step. What do you think this is for Janus going into next season? What is this season for them? Because I mean, it damn sure wasn't his success. Like, I don't know what middle ground you want to call it. it, but it was not a success. So what would you call this season for the bucks?

And what does Janus need to do going in the next season? What kind of mindset does he have to? Does he need some Ben Affleck time? Does he need to run some fucking hills? Does he need to go look in the beach out into the abyss and just wonder what's going on? Like what is the, what is the mindset? What is the summer like for Janus

that did a cumbo going into the next season? I mean, I don't know. Janus's game, save for the Frithos, look pretty good. I mean, in game, what was it for? I found myself sitting there watching Janus distribute the ball and make no look passes out of pick and roll. I said it out loud. I was like, damn, bro, he's just getting better and better.

Like, you know, he was out there looking like magic and Yokic with the ball in his hands. So, like, I think he continues to improve. I don't know from a physical, you know, obviously he missed free throws and stuff like that. You can always get better at stuff like that. let me just touch on the reporter side of it. I mean, look, again, you're getting athletes up there at very emotional times.

There's a lot of stuff coursing through somebody's body at that point when the bag is fumbled and you're up there asking them questions. I didn't think it was an awful question. I thought the wording that he should have used was it a disappointment because of failure, you know, to Janice's point, that brings in a whole lot of stuff. failing. No one's failing. They're professional athletes. Now, it was a disappointment in that our goal was to win a championship,

and we definitely fell short of that. A failure in that, you know, I mean, a disappointment in that one lost to an eight, but not a failure. Like a failure is a very, it's a very strong word. And I didn't, and this, I'd be interested to hear your take on this. I didn't have a problem with Yon is saying,

that's not a good question. People were all up in arms about that this morning, like reporters and stuff like that. I don't have a problem with that. I don't think it was a great wording of a question. And, you know, to some degree, why, you know, look, this is my interathlete coming out to defend, but why can you write an article saying that my decision, you know, down the last two minutes of a game, was a bad decision?

And that's your job, and you're allowed to do that. And if you ask a question that I deem not to be a good question, I tell you that. I don't understand. I don't have a problem with the exchange at all. Like, I don't. I mean, Eric is the guy from the athletic, Eric Nell, great reporter. Also great, like, with Yannis. Like, one of the, like, like, if you want to hear Yonnas' story, you go and read Eric, right?

Right. And I will say this. Like, after, I don't know the context. I don't think Eric has asked him the similar question, like, last year, too, like, was this a failure? I think that when wording is important, especially like during those times, right? Because you can get, you can get a similar answer no matter to the wording. Like if you said disappointment, you might get a better answer instead of like, what do you mean? And you get a better answer.

But I think one thing that, you know, like how you guys are after a game, especially a playoff game up and arms. And I don't want to speak necessarily for Eric because I don't really know him like that. And I don't know his process. but I'm just speaking from like a personal standpoint. When you get to these press conferences, it's tough because you're going to be on television. Like no matter what, you're,

like everything is recorded. So like how you guys might have trepidation and like have just like, you know, we don't know what we're going to say. We have that too. Like it's a fear there. Like, okay.

I guess we're going to have to say this and we're going to, and then we're going to get put, we might get put on the summer game screen. It just might happen. and just for Eric, it wound up happening. Like, it was just his turn. But I don't know, I don't think it affects the relationship. I think it was just like, okay, you know, I could have worded that better.

You know, I think it, I think just not even on like a attack. I just think like if you would have usually just learned from those things. It is what it is. Like, it's just, it's not even that big of a deal, honestly. I think him and Yannis and Eric is still going to write baller-ass stories about Yannis. And Yonis was just mad at this point, is what it is. It didn't seem like it was hell up. aggressive. There seemed, at least

from the exchange, it would suggest that there was a relationship there prior to that. And, you know, I just, I just saw some people this morning that were, you know, kind of upset about the way Janus approached that. And I found that interesting. I don't have a problem with the way. I don't have a problem with the way that he approached it, though, because like, yo,

it's in the moment he's pissed. Like, his season just ended also, like, Yonis is one of those players where his legacy is tied to every single playoff loss. It's not just a regular loss. So I get it. Like, I don't, I'm not mad at it, it shit happens. No, that's what's up. And I mean, it was a catastrophic loss. But here's why I think, like, disappointment versus, and this happens a lot. Like, we dehumanize kind of like our athletes and our stars and stuff like

that. Like a failure, there were so many positives behind the scenes in the Milwaukee organization this year. And I wasn't even there. But I'm talking about, you know, lessons learned, relationships made that may last a lifetime, personal issues overcome with the help of your quote unquote family in that locker room. Dude's dealing with stuff and coming in and not knowing how they're going to get from point A to point B or even if they're going to be able to continue to do it the way they thought they could do it in the support of that locker room and that team helped them navigate through that. These are things that

you can never say a season is a failure. Because of the things that human, you know, as human beings transpired there throughout the course of that season. Like that is a year of people's lives questing for

something together and the stories and the relationships and all of the connectivity that comes with that can never be classified as a failure. It wasn't like they got in trouble or anything. It wasn't like they, it wasn't like they did anything right lost the playoff series like it wasn't like they you know there's been some seasons from teams where shit is fucked failure just is a very very strong word it's almost like you know

it's not like it but it's almost like never when you say never you're you're now bringing into like brother never like you're gonna say tell me never that can never happen like that's a it's a big word and so that's why i think that and this is probably silly that i'm still on it but that's why i think that disappointment because certainly catastrophic disappointment huge disappointment But a failure would discount everything that happened there, you know, this year and, and, and what that's done to people's lives and the trajectory of their lives. And, and I don't think, you know, that's fair. Yeah, that's a fair point. Again, don't have a problem with the exchange on either side.

Like, yo, you made, you didn't get the answer that you wanted to. You know, shit happens. Like, this is, this is the NBA. I'm going to take a quick break. And let's preview some of the games tonight. And beyond. The NBA playoffs are here and you can turn crossovers into cash with Fanduel. Just visit Fandul.com slash Ringer MBA right now and place a $5 bet and you'll get an instant

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1-8009 with it in Indiana. 1-800-522-470 or visit KSgamblinghelp.com in Kansas. 1-877770 stop in Louisiana or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. 1-800-5-22-470-0 in Wyoming or visit www.1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia. And we are back. Roger, one question that I wanted to ask you in the last segment, but we kind of carried it over to this segment. The lower seats, the success of the lower seats in the NBA postseason, talking about the Warriors, I'm talking about the Lakers,

I'm talking about the heat, talking about shit, might be talking about, about the Atlanta Hawks somehow. We'll see. What is it about this season with lower seeds and their success? Why have they had success this season? And a way that I don't think I've ever seen a lower seed have just like down the line, lower seeds have just been really, really good. What does it change this season?

I don't have a great answer for that, Logan. I mean, I'll attempt to answer it. I mean, you know, there have been different situations where injuries, obviously, Janice, you know, that changes stuff. I don't know. I don't want to be an old curmudgeon and be sitting here and saying the style of play, but, you know, you had some, this is just, I think it's an anomaly of a year. Like, again, one of these lower seeds is a Laker team. You got LeBron and AD on it, right? that couldn't figure out how to stay healthy.

And it was more than half of a year with Russ that was a bad fit. And so the chemistry was all crazy. And then there's this move made. So they're playing great as a playing team coming down the stretch. Right. If this current Lakers team started the season, they'd probably win like 55, 56 games. It's not even question. And so then your other team, right?

Another one that you referenced is, you know, Golden State. and they're a multi multiple championship team coming off of maybe their best one of all last year there's a little bit of a hangover it's a little sleepy the Draymond stuff at the beginning of the season

and then we're going to be without Andrew Wiggins for a huge chunk of the season you know what I mean and then they catch a team that's probably a year ahead of schedule in Sacramento right so like these are all circumstances that I don't think you

that you duplicate from year to year. Like, so, you know, those are, those are two tough teams to pull if you're the higher seed. And then obviously, you know, Janus, you know, in the injury and then Milwaukee just fumbling the bag. I don't have a great excuse for that other than fucking playoff Jimmy showed up. Jesus. Let's go to the first game of this game tonight. Goodness.

Hawks, Celtics, in Atlanta for game six? I let's talk through this man I'm gonna be honest with you man I'm gonna know West Coast I just I haven't watched much of this series just for the simple fact that I expected the Boston Celtics to sweep this team I mean I don't know the Hawks we've talked about we have never talked about the Hawks this season

and glowing terms because of all the dysfunction that has happened apparently when here's the thing this is not even a joke because it's facts apparently when Tray Young has a dysfunctional situation with his coach

midseason and that said coach gets fired apparently that just sparks Trey Young to do great in the postseason. We saw it when Lloyd Pierce got canned and then Nate McMillan just brings them to the Eastern Conference

finals, right? And then up, Nick McMillan's time is over. It's getting Quinn Snyder. It's this fucking go. They get through the play in and then now Roger, we were talking about

the Celtics being a fucking chewing to go to the finals. Now they're going in and this might be a seven game series. Like there's a legitimate possibility that this is going back to Boston 3-3. What the hell is going on in this series, Rob?

Well, I mean, I've obviously don't watch the entirety of every game but I've been in on some of these games and I mean, Logan, when I watch it, I still feel like Boston's a better team. And that's not throwing any shade at Atlanta. They're playing great.

And they're doing what they need to do. And they don't go anywhere. Like, they just keep hooping and keep coming at you. And but, I mean, it's hard not to look at Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown and, you know, Derek White, Malcolm Brogden. Like, they just, they look like the better team. When you're watching them out there, you're like, okay. And they should. Al Horford.

Al Horford. This series should have been done. Marcus Smart fouled. I forget who we fouled. Probably Trey Young. At half court the other night with, with, I don't know how much time. It was one of the dumbest plays.

Marcus Smart is a great defender, but it was one of the dumbest plays. That's basically the game. You just gave them life in a way that they weren't going to have it. And you gifted them free throws and stopped the clock. And so, you know, that was just a huge, a huge mistake. And then Trey does what Trey does and they're breathing. And so like shout out to all of Atlanta's team for and Quinn for doing what they're doing.

But I think this boils down to Logan and, you know, Jay, your stars have to be stars in a playoffs. They got they have to be stars. This isn't this isn't the time for, you know, on the 06 sons teams. Like for example, 06 sons teams, right? Like our stars were stars and I scored 20. we win in playoff games. Now, in regular season games, I might be able to have 27, 28, and lead us in scoring, and we win, and we win, you know, a few of those games.

But it really happens like that in playoffs. So, like, in playoff games, I remember my career high was 33 in the Clippers. I think it was game six in L.A. in a really big series. But my stars weren't their normal selves that night. Our legs were beat up. We had gone seven with the Lakers. and I was the only one that kind of had it rolling. So I took the lion's share of the offense on

and chimed in with 33, and guess what? Take that L. We lost because it's not my time. You need your stars to be stars in the playoffs. And they got to kick in like that. You saw it last night with Memphis and L.A. And LeBron even said it. Like, I wasn't very good. Still, still a great player.

But like, if they're not going to produce to at least an average level, for their stardom. Like, we're, we're in, we're in a, we're in a bind. And so,

you know, Jason Tatum, I believe, and, and Jalen Brown, I think, we'll, we'll do that in a way

that we'll let them get out of here tonight with the win. I think. That's my prediction, but I don't know. Here's the thing, and listen,

in a closeout game, Jason Tatum, we need more than 19 points, eight for 21 from the field, but we just need that. Like, when you're closing out of, How do you not close out a series at home like this, Roger?

Like, De Jonte Murray's not playing. This is another thing real quick. And this is an observation that I've had with the Boston Celtics, right? Very deep team. Got dogs on the team. But every once in a while, they'll do some shit as like, what? Or they'll fold and you'll be like, how did you, why did you do that?

Like, how did that happen? Right. Finals is a perfect example of that, right? Like I saw, you know, and you can chalk that up to, I guess, experience from the Warriors over the Celtics. But they would do stuff throughout this season that would be like, it would be curious, right? Where they would have like a stretch of games where they look amazing. And like there was a case when I guess it all goes with the Warriors because that's where I watch the majority of my games, right?

So like I was at chase for that that game in a early December game against the Celtics. And they were fucking rolling. They were rolling. And they were coming in a chase. and they this is a team that beat them in the finals and this is a this is in the you know the warriors were not good to start the season and the Celtics got the brakes beat off of them and they just looked like a team that was just not ready for the moment

and the Celtics that's one thing that I always have paused because occasionally they'll have these moments where it's like but what are you guys doing you guys are number one season you guys are number two scenes but you guys should be going to the finals like this should You guys not only should be going to the finals, you guys are title contenders. Why do they have, I just don't get why they have these occasional brain farts.

Like, I just don't. They're clear, we just talked about this. They're clearly a better team winning the Hawks. Just go ahead, fucking winning five, get your rest. Go on to the next round.

I just don't get it. This always happens every couple of months for the Celtics with this group. Yeah, well, you know, that's interesting. I don't have a great answer as to why that happens, but, you know, teams that are trying to win championships and consider themselves right on the verge of that.

And I would have put Boston in that category. That typically doesn't happen. Now, maybe this probably isn't fair to their coach. But, you know, there was a change at the helm. And sometimes that doesn't rear its head in terms of whether one is better than the other or not. And I'm not saying Masula's not a great coach. But like sometimes that doesn't rear its head in on, court production.

It might be in times like that where like, hey, we're going to keep you focused. We're going to keep everybody understanding what's at stake here in a way that that allows us not to have those lulls and brain farts. And so because they came out in that game again, like I told you, Milwaukee looked like they took something for granted. If you watch Boston at home, they thought that shit was just over. Their whole, everything about their body language was like, yo, we're good. We're going to handle this.

not a problem. You know what I mean? And like so Jason Tatum, here's the deal with the 19 points, Logan. Here's the deal with the 19 on 8 for 21. Here's my problem. Real talk. Because this is this is where someone has to,

someone, and again, maybe this goes back to coaching. And I'm just kind of fleshing through this as I talk it out myself. You're 8 for 21, one for 10. 19, off night. You know how many free throws Jason Tatum shot that night? As a star in the lead. Do you know how many free throws he shot? How many?

Two. He shot. two free throws. That's unconscious. That cannot happen. Someone has to say to him, hey, bro, look, the stakes are too big tonight. If you're one of 10 from three point range, I'm inclined to believe that you're not going to the cup. You're not being aggressive. You're settling for a lot of threes. Correct. And that's okay if you're cooking. But one of the biggest areas of improvement for Jason Tatum this year, at least earlier when we talked about it in an episode, I don't know how long

ago was his physicality, you know, and his understanding that in moments like that, you know, that can get you over the hump, that ability to get to the rim and put pressure on a defense. And now give Atlanta credit in their interior defenders for sure. But I'm certainly not going to just go one for 10, 19, you know, and only get to the line twice. If I can help it. And I think someone, you know, that part of his maturity, but someone there as a staff or a teammate or someone has to impress upon him, hey, man, we got to be a little bit more aggressive. We have to make these refs make decisions.

Like we have to put the onus on them. We've got to attack the bucket. The coach thing is very interesting, Roger, because you go down the line on that team, especially with that group. I mean, they're still kind of reconciling the departure of M.A. Udoka as a coach. Like, this is a guy that they really, you know, they see him as a guy that got them in line

and held them accountable and got them to the, finals, right? And then to suddenly say, oh, he's not our coach anymore, obviously we know, you know, what happened or we, you know, we're getting, we, we saw, we saw all the things that happened. But from a coaching standpoint, he was the one that was able to get them to another level, at least in their eyes. And they were, they are, were and are still filling the effects of that. They really loved him as a coach. You could tell, you could tell. Even after all this has happened, all the main guys in that locker room have talked about how much he's helped them and how much they were trying to, you know, get back to this level.

And from a coaching standpoint, it's hard to change coaches that suddenly and try to build another relationship. Now, I know Missoula has been there for years, right, as an assistant. But still, man, like, it's really hard to have that. change and I still think that those Celtics players are filling the ramifications of that. Now, I'm not in Boston like that. I'm not. I was, I was there for an extended period of time, but from that time, you could see, that was back in January, you could still see that they're reeling from those effects to that, that departure still. Yeah, and understandably so. That's,

that's a, that's a very difficult thing to navigate. And not just for the players, but, but for coach as well. And, you know, I think he's done a really good job. job and we'll continue to do so. But just the slight change in, it could be preparation, it could be messaging, it could be in being proactive when you see situations like this that could arise, hey, we're up, we're up like this, understanding of your team. Do you know what I mean? Like just, just any, any little variance in that could lead to some of the things that you're talking about. And, you know, I tend to think that they'll be good tonight. And I think stars will be stars tonight. And I think they'll handle their business. But certainly asleep at the wheel a little bit

the last time, you know, they were at home and had a chance to close it out. For sure. Let's talk about some of the closeout games really quickly. Tomorrow will be the Warriors Kings, which is going to be, I'm going to go to that game. I'm going to be at Chase Center. We don't have to speak too much on this series, but I think the Warriors wrapped that up. Last night was, they were in control. I don't know how much you watched that game, but they were in control the Warriors pretty much the entire game.

They had it on lock. Even whenever the Kings made a run, it didn't matter. No one was phased. I knew it was over when you saw Draymond hitting corner threes and Dirk stepbacks. Motherfucker had 21 points. It was like the best scoring output he's had like four years, bro.

Like it was vintage Dremont. And coming off the bench for him, And we'll talk about this probably in future episodes. He sees the game in a different way now, right? Like he gets to, I was asking him after the game, and what's the biggest difference, right? Like, what's the biggest difference coming off the bench versus like seeing the game? He was like, I can see the game the first six minutes and just effortlessly go into it because I can already see what the matchups are going to be, how the flow is. It's so much easy.

It's really easy for me to get into the game. So it's going to be curious to see how long he comes off the bench. but it's been great for the Warriors and I think they're going to wrap this up against the Kings tomorrow night and chase. They executed a game plan in terms of kind of season control and keeping that crowd.

They can be incredible, keeping them as much out of the game as you could. Yeah, yeah, I mean, but look, you know, I had laid out a script for staying close and being within strike and distance and letting the pressure mount. The only thing that's better than that is going in there and getting on top of them first. Well, the thing was, though, it actually, I was thinking about you, Roger,

because it actually went exactly how you said it was going to go. The Kings came out bonkers. They hit a whole bunch of threes. They were up, I think, nine in the first quarter. And then the Warriors just went on a run and got it to within three to close out the quarter. And then it was just, it was on and cracking from there. It was done. Yeah, that's essentially what you want to do, right?

is be in an area where that crowd doesn't feel comfortable enough to be going crazy and celebrating and getting vibes to a point where it lifts your home players to another level. And Golden State executed that script perfectly. I would say, though, as crazy as the Chase Center is going to be, and as much as I like them, and I think that, you know, I would favor them. I don't see Sacramento going anywhere. I think they're built. I think they're built for it.

I've seen enough of it now. Now, if it's close and Sacramento isn't, you know, seven to ten points better, I'm going with, I'm going with Golden State. But I think sack will come to play. They just better, they just better hit them with something that they don't have an answer for. And quite frankly, I don't see that happening. But they'll come to play. They'll fight, but they'll get beat. They got some real ones on Sacramento.

They do. I think he's going to be a dude. I think he's just going to be a dude. Deeree Muleke in the fourth quarter, like down nine or what? whatever it was. And at that point, Darren Fox wasn't cooking. And Malik was like, yo, I got it. I just start running up people's chest. Big Bobby Jackson vibes from Malik Monk. Like, just from the simple fact of like, can get you buckets when you need to and also as a guy, remember Bobby Jackson used to just feed off the crowd? He would just get that crowd going.

Remember back that back in the day? Bobby Jackson's out. I think he's a good day. Yeah, it was a deep cut. Child to the guy, Bobby Jackson. But Bleak Monk has a lot of that in him. But I just think that they're at this point right now where, and you could see it in game five, where the warriors know the assignment and the kings just aren't there yet. They don't have that experience. They can come out with guns of blazing at Chase Center, but they just don't know. They're not in a position where they didn't even know how to finish at that level yet. And it'll happen. They showed me a lot this season.

They'll be fun next year. I'm excited to watch them. So next game, Friday night, is Lakers Grizzlies. game six. Now, I'm thinking that the Lakers are going to close this out. I don't know. I can't, I can't,

in theory, the Lakers should close this out. But in practice, I'm not so sure, Rara. I just, I don't know. I don't really know either. I tend to think that the Lakers will. This I know definitively. LeBron will be better at home.

They better finish this. They better get it done in six because the energy and the output that he's going to have to put forth to be to be what they need him to be in game six coming off of a subpar game five is going to have him in a place physically where game seven he's not going to be able to probably replicate that also another thing bro they need to wrap this shit up you know why because if they wrap it up it's brown versus step bro what the fuck we need this happen bro let's let's let's come on let's figure the shit out let's get it going let's get it going

win your games lakers win your games warriors like the streets need brown versus step i'm sorry it just is what it is that's what the streets need they do i'm with that but i'm I'm telling you now, they better clean, like when LeBron plays well, you better get that dub. If LeBron comes out and he's gassed, AD,

you better get the dub at home. AD, AD. It comes down to AD. AD plays like how he played last game. They'll be fine. They'll be good. We need 20, the Lakers need 28 at least from AD

and 15 boards, at least. That's what they need from them. I'm going to pick the Lakers, but I'm, I'm going to take the Lakers. I'm going to take the Lakers. I'm going to take the Lakers. Wait, wait, what?

What did you say, Kai? Oh, we have a voicemail from a friend of the show, best friend of the show. Because it's our first fucking Pac Watch of the year. Jolie, what's going on? What we got? Hey, Roger. Hey, Logan. Really, really happy you back for another postseason edition of Packwatch.

Really looking forward to it. So let's just dive right in. You know, I could talk about Brooklyn, but they've been through enough already. The Cavs having this sad since LeBron left the second time. And you already know how I feel about it. Mall of America in the metal core and Louvre Langley, right? But I think I got another team I'm gonna Hold on what I'm getting a call. It's a fraud. Hold on, let me see. Hello? Oh the Clippers what's going on? Every year, every year we sit down at this time in here.

like man how about those clippers oh my gosh guys guys enough is enough it's the same thing every year we come in in October and we're like the clippers are western conference contenders they got it it's time this is their year they play 10 games like yeah this is it guys they've solved it then Then somebody gets hurt. Then it's load management. Then it's, ah, you know, don't worry. The post season, they're gonna get it scared than the post season. The post season comes around and they disappoint.

Like clockwork, you can set your schedules to it. I'm sure if the Greeks still exists, this is how they would set their calendars by Clipper time. Oh, it's May? There are no Clipper games around. It's just, we gotta stop. Society has advanced past the Los Angeles Clippers. It's time for all of us to move on.

And I know that's harder for some of y'all. I know it's tough to let it go. I've got something for you. Just dial 1-800 quick clips and we'll get that mental block right out of your system because it's done. Ladies and gentlemen, everybody under the sound of my voice, The Clippers are done so. Are you not tired of being embarrassed?

Are you not tired of being ashamed? Every year you come in, and y'all know what I'm talking about. Y'all know exactly what I'm talking about. Every year, the Clippers, they're gonna do it. This is their year, man. Like, are you not, are you not embarrassed? Four years in a row, you've been wrong.

Tighten up. Be better. Again, 1,800 quick clips will go. get that out of you. All right. Logan, Roger. I'm happy to be here. Love you guys.

Talk to you soon. Wow. Shout to the God. Shout to the God. You know, he's in rare form. It's only first round. All right. Time to go to a little segment

we'd like to call it our Thursday edition of We're one of the week. Roger, I'm going to go first. I'm probably going to take yours. Go with Jimmy Butler. you don't fucking go on Jimmy Butler you don't fucking go with Jimmy Butler the God

he's gonna do like come on man we already talked about why it's Jimmy Butler who's your who's your ruin of the week Roger I mean it's not me because I just took your whole shit

I know that's some bullshit I'll go with Pat Riley I'll go with the godfather I go with the godfather of the whole heat culture and for for piggybacking off of the Jimmy Butler for finding

the pieces that make sense for the heat. And some of them aren't always the shiny, uh, cool toy that every other team in the league wants to play with. These are pieces that they got to kind of, you know, polish up and kind of knock some of the dust off. And, you know, they got a lot of pieces over there on that bench that other teams were like, no, we're good on.

And Pat finds them and his staff, they bring them in and they fit and they work and they identify what it is that they're looking for. a franchise and so you wind up in situations like that obviously jimmy is a real one but i give pat real one since you stole jimmy keep it in miami i love it man all right that was our thursday edition of real ones we will see you guys on monday man it's gonna be a popping second round i can't fucking wait let's do it tap in all the shits ah boom boom boom bye