The Ringer NBA Show - Playoff Round 2 Check-in, Plus an Early Look at the Centers in the NBA Draft | The Corner 3

Episode Date: May 1, 2019

We check in with each of the four playoff series, including what the Celtics need from Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward, whether Brett Brown’s adjustments in the Sixers-Raptors series are here to stay, and whether Nikola Jokic has finally made the choice to be a dominant scorer for the rest of the playoffs (1:30). Then we give a quick preview of the big men in the upcoming NBA draft, theorizing about what roles they might fill and whether it’s worth using a high draft pick on any of them (43:23). Hosts: Kevin O’Connor, Jonathan Tjarks, Danny Chau Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. this is the Corner 3. My name's Kevin O'Connor. And back in Ringer Studios in Los Angeles. It's Ringer Associate Editor, Danny Chow. I'm here. Let's do this. Calling it from Dallas, Texas. It's Fringer Staffiter, Jonathan Jarks.

What's up, guys? I'm excited to talk a second round of the playoffs. Hell yeah, man. It's been good so far. We're recording this at 12.14 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. Last night or this morning, a new podcast went into your feed from John Gonzalez and Haley O'Shaughnessy, which was an instant reaction to last night's world. Warriors win over the Rockets. So we're going to get started with the Eastern Conference playoffs before heading over to

the West and then talking a little bit about the NBA draft at the end. Last night, the Bucks beat the Celtics 123 to 102 to tie the series one to one before the series returns to Boston on Friday for game three. Bucks were up three midway through the third quarter, up 74 to 71 before unleashing a 29 to two run to win the game. Yannis had 29 points. Middleton had 28. Bledso had 21 and played excellent defense, which was one of the big reasons Milwaukee had such a dominant performance charts.

On Monday and Tuesday, they talked about how they're not going to make any changes to their scheme, but you wrote on the ringer.com about how they should switch more, and that's exactly what they did when usually they have their big man dropping in the paint, but instead they started mixing up their coverages with drops and hedges and peelbacks and switchers, and that seemed to fluster the Celtics charts. Yeah, that was definitely a nice adjustment by Buttonholzer Just to say nothing and actually do it That was good I mean, which is that to me really

Galaxy brain level adjustments to say Oh, we're not going to do anything. Ah, no, we're not going to. Because his whole history in the past have been to like just stick with his plan no matter what But, you know, he realizes now he's got Janice on his team Kind of win a championship. He came messing around.

What jumped out to me in this, he only played Brooke Lopez 24 minutes. In those 24 minutes, Lopez was minus 12. and Milwaukee won by 21 points. So that just shows you like this slower big man in a series like this is just really hard to stay on the, keep on the floor. Well,

let's talk about that. So they made the change and it was effective. Why was it so effective? Well, I think they're just cutting off like driving lanes. Like if they're playing more mobile bigs. I mean, there was a couple times where Janus jumped out on Kyrie.

It's like, oh, it's a whole different ball game. When you're like, as opposed to like driving at Brooke Lopez with space. And then instead you got Janus at the three point line. The floor is just so different.

Like your defense is more versatile. You can rotate quicker. I mean, there's just more ways to move around. So like, well, the other thing was crazy. So in this series, when Lopez is on the floor, Kyrie is plus 21.9 in 49 minutes. When Lopez is off, Kyrie is minus 29 and 23 minutes.

Obviously, it's a very small sample size, but I think that's a real thing right there. Right. And when we're looking at this game and we're looking at the adjustments that the bucks made, I think Kyrie, obviously, having, you know, one of the worst games of his career as a Celtic really stands out because, you know, the Bucks really kind of keyed in on him and threw a lot of bodies at him, a lot of longer, bigger players forcing him left.

It was pretty much everything went according to plan for the Bucks. Speaking of Kairie, first of all, he had a horrible overall game, poor defense, inaccurate passes, and then scoring the ball, I thought he did a lot of settling. There was one play that comes to mind in the third quarter. when Milwaukee was in the middle of their run, where they did switch a screen and Kyrie Irving had Ersson Ilyossova on him one on one.

And you would think that is a complete advantage for Boston, and normally it should be. And yet what he did was he drove into maybe 12, 15 feet from the rim and took a fadeaway stepback jumper with Ilyosova and Brooke Lopez on him when he could have easily kicked out to Aaron

Baines or Gordon Hayward and they could have swung the ball around for an open three-pointer. I thought Milwaukee's switching scheme may put more pressure on Boston. Boston also didn't do themselves any favors of the amount of settling that they did. Well, swinging it back to Aaron Baines, I must try how valuable that's going to be.

I mean, to me, swing the Aaron Baines might not help you, but swing one more pass to Gordon Hayward could. Or could be fit to more drive and kick opportunities as well. You're seeing the value of Horford. When Horford's and when Horford's out, Boston's totally different team. I wonder how many minutes he can play in the series. Like, can he get to like 35,

40, 42 minutes, play end of the series? race. Yeah, Horford obviously is critical to what Boston does, even if he's not necessarily getting a touch, the spacing he provides is critical. One of the other things you mentioned in your article charts was using Janus more often at the five. They didn't really do that a whole lot more in game two compared to game one. In game one, the bucks, Janus played 18 minutes with Lopez, 17 minutes without him.

And then in game two, it was 16 minutes with Lopez, 16 minutes without him with Yonis at the five. And that had mixed results. I thought the switching overall was a positive, but there were a couple of times in the first half where with those switches, they could post a larger player on a smaller player. I think for the most part,

though, if you're looking towards game three, Boston just needs to do something different than they've done all season. Like Milwaukee all season, they drop their pick and roll coverages, and they abandoned that for the most part in game two by mixing it up. They went away from what they know.

And with Boston, all season long, they have shown a complete willingness to just settle for, for mid-range jumpers instead of forcing it inside, trying to get to the line, trying to get layups, or kicking out more off from the threes instead of taking mid-range jumpers.

Because as many threes as Boston takes, they can do more. They can still take more threes with that Irving shot that I mentioned earlier being a prime example. I think Danny heading into game three, that's one of the things Boston will have to do in order to help themselves against Milwaukee's different scheme.

Yeah, and I've been thinking about, you know, the early minute of the game where Merytich was playing at the three and he kind of got roasted to start off. He got killed. He got killed. And by the end of the game,

we're looking at, you know, Mertich and Ilyosova, both, you know, plus 21, 22 in the game. How much longer can they sustain that against, you know, the Celtics' lineup of, you know, multifaceted wings? I'm not sure.

Isn't that the weird part? I thought Boston came out of the gates ready to attack Meritish. They went at him every single possession, got him into foul trouble immediately. And in a way, that almost turned out to be a blessing for Milwaukee. That Meritich did get into foul trouble

because any time he was back, Boston didn't seem to continue attacking him. Sort of like they forgot about their game plan heading in. Right. The two guys I'm watching in this series, I mean, one, Middleton we talked about earlier. And like the way Middleton plays is kind of the way Boston's wing should be playing.

Middelson attacks a three point line. He's just waiting for you to drop a foot off him. He's pulling up and pull up threes. And that's just so valuable, especially against the team when you have Yannis inside. Like, Boston's wings really should be doing more of that. Instead of pulling up for 18 feet, pulling up for three. And that would open up so much for their offense. And the guy I think for Boston on is Gordon Hayward.

Should he be starting? Like, it might be time to him to start playing big minutes because he's the guy who can really attack some of these lesser Milwaukee defenders, more than Marcus Morris. Hayward had a horrible game though. I think with Hayward, he was up towards the end of the season. He had some ups against Indiana. In game one was fine,

but in game two, he looked back to being his passive, timid selves on drives. He had one play that I remember where Chris Weber on the call was like Gordon Hayward and pick an roll, always special.

And then Eras on Ilyosovah took a charge where it was like so clear that's what was about to happen. Eliassova led the NBA in charges taken this season. He has proven to be a solid positional defender within the buck's scheme. But Hayward did not seem prepared for that. I thought Hayward had a passive game and it looked more like he did far too often this season. But to your point charts, I think with Boston shot selection, Hayward and Tatum specifically,

or the two guys who do a lot of settling when theoretically they are players that should be able to get to the bucket more. They're players that can pull up from three instead of mid-range. And both those guys have been very inefficient in those isolations this year, which they're going to I probably have a lot of moving forward in the series if Milwaukee continues doing switching. And with Tatum, like, you were someone prior to the draft who didn't love him. I'm someone who did love them. But what we've seen this series against Milwaukee are the flaws that you were extremely worried about and rightfully so. So far in the playoffs, Tatum is shooting one of six on layups from isolations, three of nine for midrange,

and only 0 of 3 from 3. And it's not as much the one for six on layups. And I'm worried about it's the shot distribution, the lack of threes. lack of ability to get to the basket that is concerning for him in the series. Yeah, I mean, I think for sure those two wings, Hayward and Tatum, and one are a small adjustment in Milwaukee made. In game one, they had a lot of Pat Conotton on Hayward, and Hayward's five for six against him in the series.

And game two, they played more of Middleton on him. Hayward's over four against Middleton. And I think if you start Hayward, it's easier to find easier matchups for him. Whereas if he's a second unit guy, Milwaukee can put their best defender on him. if you're starting Hayward instead of Morris, there's really nowhere to hide like Miratich or any, like whoever the bad defender from Milwaukee is. And I think that's what to watch too

is, does Malcolm Brogden come back? Because he could be a huge plus for Milwaukee if he comes back in game three. Brogden is somebody who would also better enable Milwaukee to play, however they want to play in terms of their lineup. So they want to put Yannis at the five. I think Brogden makes it quite a bit easier for you to do that.

Yeah, with the size, with the secondary playmaking ability. One thing that I'm worried about is, is, okay, what does this Bucks team look like in game three when and if Chris Middleton and Eric Bledso don't have incredible games? And when the Bucks don't end up, you know, setting a franchise record for threes made in the postseason?

Like, how much can Yonis affect, you know, the game when his outside shooters aren't quite there? Is it just me or can Yonis do even more if he needs to, right? I mean, like Middleton and Bledso, were great in game two. But I think Janus, there's still more to him that he can give in the series that he hasn't had to give, especially if they have to

run more pick and roll. They ran a little bit more in game two than in game one. But if you're using Janus, either as the ball handler or as the screener, the things that he can do as a role man, either scoring the ball with power or finesse or being able to play make off the short role. I think if the bucks need

more from Janus, they can get more from Janus. Well, I think that's where having Brockton would be huge. Because if Rogden's coming off that screen. You have to worry about the pull-up shot, whereas if it's bloods are coming off the screen, then whatever. And I mean, I talk about my article. Yannis has only played 32 minutes a game in the series right now.

Like, Janus should be playing 40, 45. There have been two blowouts, but that's how you can give more right there. Like, this man is going to playing on the floor all the time. He's just too valuable to ever be on the bench. Did game one or two change either of your thoughts about the series moving forward, or is this going to continue to be a series of adjustments where now we see Brad Stevens counterpunch in game three? I think so.

I think you'll see, so they moved off Lopez. And I think now we'll see, can they attack Meritich and Ilyosov? Can they find those new week spots from Milwaukee? I think that's the adjustment for Boston going forward. Game three for Boston, Milwaukee will be on Friday night. I'll be at that, based in Boston for the next couple weeks or months. Looking forward to that one. Moving on, we got the Sixers Raptors.

Game three on Thursday night. Toronto lost game two after Philadelphia made a number of different adjustments, putting Joel on bead on Pascal Seacum, Ben Simmons on Kauai Leonard. Danny, your Raptors lost game two. Are you losing hope for them this series? Oh, no. I think the adjustments they made are, I think the adjustments that Philly made in Game 2 were very sound.

I think obviously you needed to have Simmons on Kauai. Kauai is arguably, what, one of the two, three hottest players in the postseason right now. you need a guy who has the length, who has the athleticism, and the size to kind of just make life difficult for him. I thought the most intriguing, like, adjustment that the Sixers made was putting an beat on Siakum. It kind of reminded me of what the entire NBA was trying to do with Janus during the regular season towards the end of it

by putting a bigger athletic, big man on Janus to kind of close a little bit of the gaps and squeeze out a little bit of the air. in terms of what they were able to do out in space. But no, I think Nick Nurse has some adjustments up his sleeve, and I think Charks would very happily talk about them. Yeah, I feel like he does a really good job of adjusting quickly. He tried a few things in the start of the second half.

They went away from late. But I like putting Siakum on Jimmy Butler, giving you even more size on Jimmy. Jimmy's kind of their primary creator right now, with Simmons being shut down a bit. And then you kind of just hide green on Tobias. I think with Embedon Seaccom, you've got to move Seaccom off the ball, have him cutting. Ambita's one chases around the floor at all.

And I think that is very exploitable. The thing that I'm looking at this series, like Toronto's bench has disappeared. Really, neither one of these teams' benches played well. And it feels like whoever can get good stuff from their sixth, seventh, eighth man can have a huge advantage going forward. And even in game two, Greg Monroe is the star off the bench from the Sixers. That's what it's come to. He's playing well. And he played for the three other team in the Eastern Conference final. And the Eastern Conference right now.

He played for Toronto, played for Milwaukee. Wow, that's right. Yeah. It's unbelievable. And he got hurt in that game. I haven't seen any word on his availability for game three. But it kind of matters right now. It does matter, which is saying a lot about both the benches for both of these teams.

And this is with Toronto, that was one of their strengths before. They are a team that now has a weak bench. Sergei Baca, the mid-range shot was so great for him all season long. has failed him. Norman Powell is fine. Jody Meeks, it's very odd how he gets that minute-long stint at the end of the first and third quarters. I do wonder if moving forward in the series, you mentioned the role of Pascal Seacom. Nick Nurse has still gone with that Seacom plus bench players unit for short stints during the game. I wonder if moving forward more than he already has, he further ramps up the minutes for Danny Green and Mark Asole to get a little bit closer to the

40 minutes that Seacum, Kauai, and Kyle Lari are all playing. It could be too early for that. We know with Gassol's age and green as well, all the miles on him. But I do wonder if moving forward with these weak benches, that's something that he just has to do. I mean, it was also just a rock fight in game two. Neither team could hit their threes. I think I trust the Raptors to hit their threes a little bit more than the Sixers. But yeah, like, when you're, you're shooting 27 percent and, you know,

Brett Brown was talking before game two about how, you know, the Raptors have been the hottest three-point shooting team in the league. Those probably a jinx right there. You know, it's something to look at. I think that's something where regression might favor the Raptors. But I don't know. If you play Marcosal Moore, do you see a way in which she can be, you know, an aggressor? Because I think with Tobias on him, he was, what he averaged, he took like one shot with Tobias on him. yeah, he took six shots total

was one for six. Yeah, it was only the one shot with Tobias, I think. But there were a couple other times I posted him up as a means for playmaking as well. It was interesting. They did try to attack that matchup a little bit, but didn't result in any production for Toronto. You know what I wonder?

So Van Vleet is one for four in like 45 minutes in this series. We might see some Jeremy Lynn. Yeah. I mean, there's room for him to hide him on defense in Philly, and he might give them some secondary. playmaking and shooting. Man, they just need... Some Jeremy Lynn

or some Malcolm Miller, Danny. Ooh, Malcolm Miller. Now we're talking quarter three language. Has, speaking of, like, these injuries that we don't really have

like any kind of information on, do we have any thoughts on OG and his comeback? Because... I think he was said Eastern Conference finals, right? Oh, okay. She was like an emergency appendack in me,

so it's like two to three week. I don't know. Oh, I'm seeing this. OG is not close. There was a report yesterday. Yep. Not close to a real. turn. That's not good.

According to Nick Nurse, yeah, long, long ways away is what Nick Nurse said yesterday speaking to theathletic.com. And that obviously would have given Toronto another versatile defender who can hit spot up threes for you at an average rate, which

OG is a good player right now. I wouldn't make a significant impact on this series, but having a guy with his defensive versatility would against a team like this with Tobias Harris, with Jimmy Butler, could even put him on JJ Redick at times too. Both these benches are depleted, but it's a top-heavy series. I do wonder with Toronto,

one of my concerns for them, whether against Philly or moving forward in the East and Commerce Finals, all season long, this offense has been so inconsistent, Danny. What is the reason for their ups and downs that you've seen? I mean, it's a lot of it's just, when you, when you rely on Kauai Leonard and you're relying on a player who, you know, doesn't have the elite playmaking instincts. You're running off of him. And it's a lot of him. It's a lot of Seacum. And it's a lot of Kyle Lowry doing their own thing for stretches. I would say Lowry is their best passer. I think one thing they could do is really try to use him to attack Embed and beat and Reddick. I think you'll see to all these series, I've never get deep in the second round. The benches are

going to shorten. The star is going to play more minutes. Everyone's seeing more hunting mismatches. like if you got a weak defender out there, attack him every single time. That's what's come to in all these series. Game three for Sixers, Raptors will be on Thursday night. I think one thing that might be a little overlooked in the series is the crowd in Philly.

That'll be nuts like it was in Toronto, both two great home court advantages. It would not surprise me if that's heading back to two when it gets back to Toronto. Philadelphia did figure out some good things. And it's going to be interesting to see what type of counter adjustments

Nick Nurse makes. Let's move on to the Western Conference. the Warriors won 115 to 109 to go up 2 O'Hawkins. As I said at the top of the show, John Gonzalez and Haley O'Shaughness, he had an instant reaction show that should be in your feed that went up either late last night or early this morning. Charks, this game to me felt sort of like a repeat of game one

minus all the complaining about the referees with Houston coming in with a good gameplay. They are fully prepared for Golden State. It's what they've built for. They just don't have enough juice. Yeah, I think the one that changed really was Austin Rivers coming back. He missed game one. And then you really could see... It's the Rivers hive almost.

Don't tell Isaac Lee. But, like, you really see the value of having more guys who can create offense against Golden State. Because Golden State is playing so many more faster wings against Hardin, he has less space to operate. He needs help. Rivers was big.

I think going back into game three, our guy Daniel House has to step up of this is going to be serious. But all he goes back to Daniel House. I'm laughing about the fact that a series involving Draymond Green, Kevin Durant, Stefan Curry, Clay Thompson, James Hardin, Chris Paul.

We're like, Austin Rivers and Daniel House. Every player matters. It's so great. I know, you're right. It's like you're not wrong. I mean, it's like, what more is there to be said about the key players in the series? It's the guys of the fringes who make a big difference.

So like, you're right, it's just funny. It's going to kick out of it. With so many, so many of these stars kind of getting dinged up, though. Like, I mean, KD fell on his tailbone. Steph, like, had a finger come, like, out of its socket. It fell off. Yeah, it basically fell off. That was pretty powerful.

James Hardens, I got fell out of its socket. Yeah. Because Draymond has his fingernail sharpened. You know, once, I mean, I don't know how, I don't purport to know how many games this is going to last. But, like, by the end of this, everyone is going to be banged up. Austin Rivers might be playing 45 minutes in game seven. For all we know at this rate, you got to have Austin Rivers. And by the way, we have a Ringer, a Rockets fan at the ringer, Sean Yu, who I remember

when Houston first got Austin Rivers, we were talking about it. I remember I was saying to him, I swear you're going to like Austin Rivers. He's going to be an important player off the bench. And Isaac's like, Austin Rivers sucks. And Sean, you, I remember after game one when Rivers didn't play, he's like, we got to get Austin Rivers back. Houston needs Austin Rivers. Because to your point, charts, just to circle back here, having more shot creators on the floor is pivotal for Houston in the series against Golden State, especially when in the starting unit, Chris Paul has struggled this series.

And James Harden, the floater has failed him in the playoffs after it was a very effective shot for him over the full regular season. It has failed him in the postseason against both Utah and Golden State, two teams trying to force him into that exact shot. And I think we can talk about Clint Capella too. That's someone else for Houston's giving them pretty much nothing. That's really hurt them. Clint Capella has had his up and downs, Danny, against Houston, but a lot of downs right now. Yeah, I mean, at this point, the reason why Clint Coppella was so important to the Rockets, obviously, is because Dan Tony really wanted to keep a center on the floor at all times, and yet he's had to go to PJ Tucker a lot more than, you know, what the game plan probably said.

in these past two games, he's just been an absolute zero. And like, what do you do with Capella now? Charks, I know your answer. It's going small, correct?

Well, because see, I'll circle back. So the reason they haven't done Tucker at the five more is because House has given them nothing. So right now when they go Tucker at the five, they're playing like Rivers, Gordon,

Paul. It's not small ball. It's tiny ball. Like, if you're playing Tucker at the five, you've got to have some wings with size around him to, like, cover up some weaknesses. And,

And our problem enough for Houston is Capella was bad against the Warriors last year, too. There's not really an answer for him in the series. He can't shoot. He can't create his own shot. He's not really a playmaker. There's just only so much he can do in his team. It's just small in this athletic. So to me,

it's finding more wings who can give you a chance to play in a medium series. Because I just don't see Capella really making an impact enough to make Golden State go bigger. I'm not sure I can play smaller either. Capella frustrates me so much. so much because on the 2014 draft, he was so raw at the hoop summit the year prior. He just got totally beat up. And entering the draft, he looks like a total project. And he's gotten so much better over the years, so much stronger.

His hands have gotten better. He's gotten so much more intelligent on the defensive end of the floor in terms of reading the game. But one of the things that hasn't changed, it seems like mostly against Golden State is my 2014 in my 2014 NBA draft got, I had one negative in there that says, quote, he plays small. in that he avoids contact and gets pushed around inside should be fine when he gets bulked up. Well, he's not fine after getting bulked up. He still gets pushed around against Golden State. For a guy who is often the biggest, strongest player on the floor, he does not often play like it.

And it's really frustrating how he doesn't, both on the boards and finishing. Is he bigger and stronger than Katie, though? Like, I feel when Katie rotates over, Katie is kind of bigger than him. Yeah, he's at least wider, not necessarily longer. I mean, he's certainly the biggest on the Rockets court, on the rocket side of the floor. Doesn't always box out either. It's just incredibly frustrating watching him against the Warriors. I'm thinking there's hope for our Daniel House.

You know, they're returning to Houston. He plays a little bit better at home. I mean, he plays a lot better because he doesn't play at all on the road. And I think with, you know, them going to Tucker at the Fivemore, that's where House kind of has to be in the... the game. He's played, I think, more than three-fourths of his minutes with Tucker. And so you're basically pairing those two because it's combining, you know, girth, length, size, and athleticism, you know, to mitigate the damage of not having, you know, someone extremely big in the front court.

You know what was interesting? What they tried the second half of that game, they actually played Hardin on KD a little bit. And like Hardin did okay when we did. when he didn't get switched off the screen. The numbers say, Katie is 4 of 12 and it's Hardin. And I kind of like that. Hardin's got size. He has to play defense

because they have not really many guys who can. And maybe him playing defense on some of these bigger wings for Golden State is something else Houston could try going forward. Can we talk about KD for a minute, just about how extraordinary he's been the last six games ever since he said, do you know who I am? I'm Kevin Durant.

He's been extraordinary and not just on the offensive end of the floor where he scored 38 points, 33, 43, 55, 50, 35, and then 29 last night. It's not just Offman's, but I thought in last night's game, he was just absolutely stunning on the defensive end of the floor, defending multiple positions, communicating, energy, rebounding. And he did everything on the defensive end of the floor on goal and saying,

and what was part of an overall great effort by that team, led by KD and Dremon Green. Yeah, they put him on Eric Gordon at the start of the first half. So Eric Gordon had a really big game, game one. So they were like, oh, let's put KD on him. It's like, oh, it was a seven-foot guy. you can defend all five positions. It's really incredible. We're at a point where KD kind of insulates the team from itself.

Like he can do everything on the court. And so he kind of becomes the white noise, even though he's averaging, you know, 34 points on 50, 40, 90 splits. But him being able to do everything on the floor allows everyone else to be the specialists that they are. Like they are hyper specialists, but they are, you know, they are specialists. Yeah, KD being well is really kind of covered. for Steph not being himself.

And that's the thing I think going forward for Golden State to watch out for, because obviously it's Steph and Katie together to make them unstoppable. And Seth's been good in the playoffs, but he hasn't been kind of the offensive takeover guy that we are just in seeing. Yeah, on April 26th, the Warriors' final game against the Clippers. That's when Curry turned his

ankle and threw two games against Houston. I thought he's been really competitive defensively. I thought he's been great on that under the floor, but his offense has not been there necessarily. He had that one dunk last night, which came out of nowhere. But doesn't seem like he's trusting his ankle. And maybe that's partially he's just, you know,

taking a little bit easy for now as he gets himself fully back. But this is the third year in a row now that he's been hurt in the postseason. And if you're imagining a world where, where Katie leaves, it's going to be interesting to see what happens with Stefan Curry when he becomes the central focal point of a warrior's offense without Katie, more similar to what James Hardin and Chris Paul have to do with the Houston Rockets.

I wonder how much he can handle that load moving forward. But that's a conversation for another day. It's just something in the back of my mind watching these post seasons where Steph just continues to get hurt. Yeah, the other guy, we got to talk about it is Clay Thompson. So the reason Chris Paul has not played well in the series is Clay Thompson is totally shut him down. And like Clayman is such a monster because he got hurt too, but like he doesn't seem to matter with Clay Thompson. That dude is just a freaking machine. He's hurt.

He's injured. He's going to play 40 minutes, shoot threes, D-Up your best player. He's just real. He's truly an incredible player. I think he is one of the guys. I just love watching him play. he's awesome. Yeah, the conversation will,

if this series continues to go poorly for Houston, we'll be about how it's another choke job for Chris Paul. But I think Clay Thompson deserves a lot of credit for that and making life difficult for Chris Paul with his size, as you said, Charx just to be able to, you wrote something about Paul either earlier this season or last season, about Paul's lack of size being one of his limiting factors in the postseason.

I mean, his limiting factor. I mean, he's just like DJ Augustine. Speaking of Chris Paul, we had a great article that went up on the ringer yesterday. Oh, yeah. Shut up Jordan Khan. Yeah, Jordan, Jordan Khan on Chris Paul and Paul's will to win and, you know, the pros and cons of that. And, you know, we see both sides. I think last night, I hated that play when Draymond Green had a dunk and Paul got pissed off and almost tried pushing Draymond's legs as he was hanging from the rim.

Little moments like that. That doesn't help the perception of Houston. And never mind, the leaking of their internal report about the officiating in last year's possees. Enough of the referees, though. Last night the officiating was great. I don't want to talk about the officials. Do you have any thoughts on the referees?

I don't. I think we've established on the corner three in past episodes that we are firmly ambivalent. Is there anything else that comes to mind that Houston can do this series? We talked about what they can do on the fringes with Daniel House. with Austin Rivers being a playmaker. It seems to me that one of the things Dantonie is trying to figure out is who's that eighth guy.

It's very rare that he plays 11 guys like he did last night. Shumpert played five minutes. Oh my God. Worse minutes ever. Shumperts are four threes and five minutes. It was incredible. It's awful.

Farid played five minutes. House played five minutes. It seems like Dan Tony is searching for that eighth guy and he just doesn't seem to have him. And this sort of goes back to one of the things we talked about during the regular season with the unwillingness to go into

the luxury tax charks in order to get that guy who could help swing a series who could be that four or five or six point difference in a game and Houston doesn't seem to have that guy that Dan Tony can trust.

Yeah, I mean, they're playing two guys they bought out on minimum contracts in Rivers and Freed, a guy that's not at the G League in House. They're just working with a lot of scraps. It's hard when you're paying your best three players like a trillion dollars

and you're saying luxury tax, they're just don't want to make room the rest of your roster. Not to go full big picture with them. I think the series will still go deep, but it could go south quite quickly, depending on what happens moving forward, but with their changes to this offsy.

They have no cap flexibility. Chris Paul will be paid $44 million in the final year of his contract when he is steadily declining. With the rest of the NBA, closing the gap with their shot distribution, shooting more threes, getting more layups with Houston, this could go bad quite quickly. I don't think it will because you have James Hardin, but there's a road where it does.

I just wonder if they move off Capella or Paul at some point next year or two. Because like you got Hardin and you had how many other pieces to move. Could either one of those guys, I think Capella could get something interesting in a trade. I wonder. I don't know. The one thing with Capella, though, is the market was not strong for him in free agency,

which is why he got the deal that he did. I wonder if there wouldn't be a significant amount of interest in him. And with Chris Paul as well, I can't foresee a lot of teams lining up around the corner for his services either. Maybe a team like the Lakers, if they have nobody else they can turn to. It's hard to find many trades as there, Danny. I was just fiddling around with the trade machine and I'm extremely bad at this. But the first thought that came to mind was, okay, who's a bad contract for a guy who's pretty young, who might be able to turn into like a weird Dan Tony like four?

and I was like Andrew Wiggins. Oh, wow. Oh, my goodness. That's interesting. Look, you do like Chris Paul and like Nene or something for Andrew Wiggins and like Gorgie Jang. Would you do that? As Minnesota I would.

I mean, no, I wouldn't, but I would love to see Andrew Wiggins have to adapt to Mike D'Anne's offense. The king of the new king of the mid or maybe the gesture of the range. Yeah, don't give him the king title.

He's not a yeah, the mid-range jester and Andrew Wiggins. I would love to see him try to adapt to Mike Dentone's

offense. Who knows, maybe it would help him. I do not see in making a significant difference for Andrew Wiggins.

But that's a topic for another day of this series goes poorly for Houston. Are you feeling any less confident in Houston than we

may have heading into the series for the chances of battling back and at least stealing one of these or do they need to win both going back home

to Houston? I think they got it one both for sure And I mean, to me, I feel like It's just house. It's just weird to talk about this guy this much But he's the key for them If he plays well at home, they have a chance. If he doesn't, I don't see much of a series.

I think Houston had a split. I picked Golden State heading into the playoffs And then I switched to Houston after the first round, which was probably silly in hindsight. Yeah, the pick is going to stay. I think they had a split. I think they had a split. It looks more like,

like a six game series to me moving forward. Moving on to the Nuggets and Blazers, Charks, you wrote about the mighty Nicola Yokic today on the ringer.com, Yokic in game two, and as part of these entire playoffs, has just been absolutely, unbelievable, man. Transcendant.

He had 37 points in game two against, game one against Portland. Game two will be tonight. Charks, can you fill us in a little bit on what your article was about regarding Yokch? Well, I think the main thing with Yokch, So game one against the Spurs.

He kind of came out and played the usual Yokic game. He made the extra pass. He had 14 rebounds, 14 assists, but only took nine shots and Denver lost. And that's when I was like, oh, wait a minute. Yokic, he's such a good pass where people forget. He can score a will, basically, which he's been doing the last week and a half. Like, Yoke is 7 foot 250. He can post up anyone.

He can shoot over anyone. He's got great handles, great passing. When he wants to look for his shot, there are not many guys who can guard him. And certainly not in the first time it was Alders and Purdle. And round two, it's been Canter and Leonard. None of those guys are the chance of guarding Yokic, and he seems to realize it. He's averaging 27 points a game over the last seven games on 50% shooting. And he's just been an absolutely dominant offensive player.

Like, he's doing things we have never really seen in the playoffs before. So there's a bunch of numbers you can look at. The one that, like, blew my mind. So right now in these playoffs, Yokich is averaging more than four threes a game, more than eight assists a game, and fewer than two turnovers a game. nobody in NBA history has ever done that before at any size, at any position. So you've got a center who's just shooting threes,

controlling the whole game on offense, never turning it over, and scoring almost 30 points a game efficiently. That's a special, special player. And it's been so much fun to watch. Yeah, and Charks, one of the, like, strong, strong points in your piece was just that, look, we're not comparing him to other centers.

We're comparing him, we're comparing his impact on the game to James Harden and Steph Curry. Like at this point, that's where he is aligned. Because there aren't any big men in the game who has his skill set and has been able to actually, you know, leverage that over the league like he has. Well, he's a seven-foot, 275-pound playmaker, essentially. I mean, we're talking about he is one of the faces of positionalist basketball. If you just stand him up, he looks like he's going to be a traditional plotting center. But he is not that one bit.

He is somebody, as you said, we're comparing him to the James Hardens of the world, the Steph Curry's of the world, with his overall impact. And Charks, you mentioned some of the playoff numbers. You had a stat in your article about how he's posting numbers that few have ever done before. I looked at, looked this up this morning in terms of a per possession basis, only LeBron, James, and Nicola Yokic have ever averaged over 30 points per 100 possessions with over 10 assist and 10 rebounds per 100 possessions while while playing.

past the first round. There's players who have done that in a single round like Grant Hill and Russell Westbrook, but never has a player done this into the second round. And he has a lot of cushion for those numbers to drop a little bit moving forward to. His overall impact, I think all season long, he was a top 10 player. He was a top five MVP candidate. And it's really no surprise that a lot of these things have translated to the postseason for him. It's just encouraging that they have, but not that they have, but that they've gotten better.

or two sharks. And the thing about it is, like the way he's playing, it just makes life easy for someone else. That's a unique player. So what killed him in game one was that

Murray Yokich pick and roll, that murdered Portland. And the thing is like, you can't switch that pick and roll. Because if you put a smaller guy in Yokic, forget it. It's over.

That's two points. Or three points. So all of a sudden, Murray is coming off that screen. Either they're dropping back, he's getting space. They're doubling him and he's dumping it off to Yokh.

Like, there's not an easy answer for that pick and roll. It's like the reverse of the Harden Capella pick and roll. So normally it's like, okay, we can't switch a screen because we don't have a slow guy on Hardin. But against Denver, it's the opposite. We can't switch a screen because you can't put a small guy on Yokuch.

And it just like there's not many inches for porn in this series on defense. I feel like this is going to be a shootout. Yeah, with that pick and roll all season long with Murray or sometimes Gary Harris as the screener for Yokish, but usually Murray, that two-man combination has been one of the most potent across the league. And as you said, Charks, you can't switch it. Because even if you do and Yokch is a smaller guy on him, you probably have to double, which is opening up an easy kickout opportunity for Yokic from the post or either face-up opportunity from the elbow area. Yokic is his ability to beat you every single way on the offensive of the end of the floor is unlike so many players because you could use him everywhere.

Use him as a high pick and roll ball handler at seven feet tall. Use him as a low post presence. Use him running off screens even. They use him off screens and dribble handoffs. He's used all over the floor. And I think Michael Malone deserves a lot of credit for empowering him within his role and pushing the limits of how some other coaches might restrict a seven footer. I think Yokic has just constantly grown as a player and we've seen a steady progress from him in the postseason. And really in conjunction with Jamal Maury, his teammate who also started off poorly, defending against Derek White, who locked him up early in that Nugget Spurs series.

Jamal Mari has continually gotten better, I think, with his shot creation and his playmaking. he's a guy who entering the NBA with somebody who was a scorer or shooter, but over time Danny, I think he's become somebody who can make players around him better as well, like Yokic does. I, well, I'm not like a huge Jammari

fan. I mean, either, but he's gotten better, though, I think. Yeah, I mean, they're hiding him on D which helps. That was a big adjustment in that San Antonio series. They started putting Murray on, like, Bryn Forbes, and they've kept that over against Portland. They're hiding Murray on, like, I think it's like Harkless, and they're putting Craig and Harris on the two guards.

which, and we should talk about too, for much as we're going to praise Yokic, he got freaking murdered on defense too. It wasn't like they stopped Portland at all. That was a freaking shootout. Damien Lillard, yeah, you're right. Damien Ler at 39 points, 12 of 21 from the floor, and N.S. Cantor as well.

He was killed. Yeah, he was great. Canter was great. And that's why when it comes to adjustments that Portland can make, I sort of wonder if Cantor's the guy that you just have to stick with in the series because Zach Collins and Myers-Lennard cannot affect.

affect Yokich when he's on defense, like Cantor can with his ability to roll to the rim. I know we've talked about Collins a lot on this pod, but in this series, is that something you tend to agree with, Charles, or are you going to Leonard or Collins? See,

I think either one of those guys can't guard canter, so at least those two guys can shooting. To me, the guy for Portland is Rodney Hood. Like, I'm looking at this series for Portland. I'm saying they're going to probably score on 20 points, or 25 points.

He had a big game one. I think, like, this is going to be a shootout, a meeting with Harklist or water pistols. Like, they can't score. And, like, if you're going to have Jamal Murray out there, you've got to attack him on defense. And I think if I was Portland, I'd probably start Hood. I might just play Dame, CJ, Seth Curry, and Hood together and say, let's call 150. Yes.

Because you want to guard, I think one way to guard Denver is to double Yokich make those bad guys, make guys like Craig shoot jumpers. So we're doubling the pay anyways, whatever. Let's see you can hit more threes. My guys are your guys. Right. Because, like, when you look at the Nuggets roster up and down the, up and down the roster, there are a bunch of guys who aren't necessarily consistent three-point shooters. I think their most consistent three-point shooters, probably Malik Beasley.

But, you know, Gary Harris, Tori Craig, all the guys along the line are just like, yeah, Wolbarten, they're just not very consistent. And they showed signs of just like being a bad three-point shooting team towards the end of the regular season. So, yeah, no, I think that's sound. And I think the best way to, you know, combat Yokic is just try to run him off the floor. get them tired. Yeah. Keep them, keep attacking

as much you can. In terms of Denver's inconsistent shooting, one of their best shooters, but also one of their inconsistent shooters is Jamal Murray. I do wonder if in game two tonight,

one of the adjustments Portland could make is putting Aminu and pulling him from Paul Millsap and putting him on to Jamal Murray. Maybe some more length bothers Murray. Maybe you're better able to switch that pick and roll. If Amino is starting out on Murray,

maybe Aminu is somebody you can trust on Yokich because of his size and length, is that something that you think is worth trying sharks? I know you mentioned it said going to Roddy Hood, but with Amino's going to play. So, like, based of the amount of opportunity that's getting on the floor, is that something that you think they should try?

It's worth trying. And I think, as we were talking about, the big thing is, like, make these guys shoot, like, Tori Craig. If this man can make, like, six threes, tip your hat to him. I'm not sure that he can.

Yeah, and I think putting a guy with size and length on Jamal-Marie's, is something that's, you know, been an option and been a good option for a lot of teams ever since college, you know. One of the things that I remember talking about the draft 2016 with Charks, one of the, like, key moments we keyed in on all the time was O.G. Anirnobe over Jamal Murray, who made, you know, Murray's life a living hell. So, yeah, that's always going to be an option for a guy who doesn't quite have, you know,

a great first step, doesn't really have the blow byability. if you can kind of shroud him, then I think that's a great option. Let's move on and talk a little bit of NBA draft to close out this podcast. With Nicola Yokic, he's one of the rare constructs that we haven't seen much in league history.

We've seen a number of different centers. We have the rim runner in Clint Capello. We have the offensive center in Ennis Cantor, who has limitations on defense. We have the playmaking center, a guy like Mark Gassol, and we have the two-way center in Al Horford.

and depending on what the game demands, you could have a superstar who's just not healthy in Joe L&B, but depending on what the game demands, the traditional center is sort of, you know, passing, you know, it's fading away quickly. The role of the center isn't quite as important in today's league unless you're somebody like a yokech, or unless you're somebody that reaches a star level.

But there are a number of big men in this year's draft class. Obviously, there's Zion Williamson up top, who we've talked about a lot in this podcast. one of the centers that I really like in this draft class is Goga Badazi. Oh, here we go. Goga talk from Georgia, 6 foot 11 with a 7 foot two wingspan. And for what it's worth, he is not Nicola Yokich. He is not going to be a player like that.

But I do think there's a lane for him long term as a player in this league who can be like a Nurkich type or in the draft guide we have a shades of comparison as a shot blocking and his canter for him. I think with Bidazzi, he has a very, very skilled offensive player who can pass the ball, who can space the floor, who's a good screener, who's a smart player. And one thing that he does that reminds me of watching Yokic when he was a prospect as well was he competes on defense. I think over time, he's somebody that can be a player that is going to give you a lot on the offensive end of the floor and somebody who's going to be

able to at least hang around on the defensive end. And Charks, I know this past week you've watched a lot of film on him as well. Do you view Bidotzi with the current state of the league as like top 10 pick like I do. I have him ranked ninth or is he somebody that you're looking more towards in the middle first round, late first round. I think he's really good. I saw you have him as the top big in the draft and whenever I do my thing. I think I'll probably have him up there too. So like watching Goga, to me like he's like a weird blend of Vucevich and Nerkich. Like he's a very smooth offensive player. His shot looks pretty good. He knows how he gets to where he wants to go on the floor. And he has surprising ups. Like he blocks shots. He moves

where you think based off his like physical profile. I like him a lot as a player. I really wonder, I think he's going to be a really good player. I think maybe like 10 years ago, you might have been a top five pick. I just wonder, like, I feel like he's ultimately a platoon center in the playoffs, and how valuable is that? I don't know. I don't see him in this kind of series we're talking about today as more than a 25-minute-night player. So how high do you want to draft the player like that in the lottery? I don't know. Yeah, that's, that was exactly my concern. Like, is he good enough at, you know, being that kind of drop-back defender that you're comfortable with him playing in a game for 30 plus minutes.

But circling back, I mean, the reason why, at least one of the reasons why he probably reminded you of Yokic a little bit is because he came from the same school or he came from the same team, Megabasket, Megalax, you know, the colorful pajama uniforms that go back like probably a decade now, a true like farmhouse for, you know, international NBA talent. Yeah, I'm kind of more interested in him defensively and seeing how he develops in the NBA because he's really, really slow in space,

but he moves really, really well in tight quarters. And so, like, when you combine that with, like, his shot blocking ability, there's definitely a lane for him to be a really good, kind of like, you know, a classic dropback defender in the vein of Brooke Lopez. But, you know, how important is that going forward? And this year's draft class, I think it's partially just the nature of the class.

There's a lot of guards that can't shoot, a lot of wings that can't offend. I just think if you're taking a quote unquote best player available, I think he presents good value for you in the middle of that lottery range. I have him ninth now, but would not surprise me if he moved up at some point. Yeah, I think he could start 35 minutes at night in the regular season for a good team. He's a really good player. And to me, he's probably the safest of all the centers in this draft. Right.

Yeah, I'm actually surprised that he didn't declare last. year helped himself out by not i suppose yeah he's still really young so one guy who does get compared to yokic and will inevitably heading into the draft is jontay porter oh i'm so sad about this yeah porter i know you're a huge fan of porter he is somebody who unbelievable passer has just tremendous vision he's not quite an all-time level passer like yokitch who is yokch who is the most talented passer i've ever seen and he has a chance to be the greatest passer at the big man position ever. Porter is not that, but he's a great

passer for his position, who can also space the floor from three is a solid positional defender as well. Porter, but he did tear both, he tore his ACL twice in the last two years. With Porter, he's somebody that I think you had ranked lottery, if I remember correctly, charts last year. Did you as well, Danny?

Uh, yeah, fringe lotto, I believe. With his injuries in the nature of this class, with a lot, not a lot of certainty, are you still viewing him as a first-round draft prospect without us knowing the full extent of his medical? Or does that just knock him down a long way on your board, much like Harry Giles had experience with his amount of injuries in high school and college?

I mean, doesn't it kind of have to? Have you ever remembered a guy tearing his ACL twice in two years? Like, that doesn't happen. Yeah, and it was partially because he basically rushed back onto the court to get his reps in for shooting and all that

and it just his knee just wasn't structurally sound at the time it's really unfortunate he tore his right ACL on a scrimmage in October last year and then re-tore this March and as Danny said

he admitted that he rushed back to the court which is unfortunate I think Porter has a chance to be a really good NBA player I'm not sure if he's quite athletic enough to be a great player now he's not he's not torn his knee twice, you know, athletes will begin with. Yeah. I mean, I am

like kind of here for this next wave of NBA stars being like doughy, unathletic big man who are just supremely skilled guards. Like, that would be really, really funny to me, but yeah, it's a lot of uncertainty. I don't think I would take a risk with him in like

the first 20 picks, but like look, if a team really falls in love with his skill set, I can totally see him in the late, late first round. just to wrap this up with a couple of other big men prospects. Not everybody's doughy. Not in this year's class.

Not everybody's like Padatsy reporter. There are a number of more traditional rim running centers, namely Jackson Hayes from Texas, who's the big name. I believe we've talked about him on this podcast before. He fits more the Clint Capello roll charks, except you saw him at Texas this year. He's extremely raw on both ends of the floor.

Yeah, he's like not very strong. He doesn't have much perimeter game. I think he'll be a good NBA player, but I'm a little surprised at how much hype he's getting. I feel like Daniel Gafford is maybe not as good, but I don't think he's that much worse and he's considered a late first round pick. So I feel like those kind of players are available.

I don't know if I've taken a rim running start of top 10 anymore. Yeah, and even besides Daniel Gafford, one guy that we don't have currently in the draft guide, what will be there in the update is Nemeas Keta from Utah State. To me, I like him more than Gafford. I think he's a better, more reliable defensive player, a better rebounder. He's not quite as bouncy as Gafford, who fits that that Clint Capeller mold, as you just said. Kata is more like a traditional type of center, but I think his defensive prowess bodes well for him in the NBA coming out as a freshman.

He reminds me a little bit of a best case scenario, maybe a Stephen Adams or Jacob Pertl type. I see that type of lane for Kata. And in the late first round, I think that presents better value for you rather than some of the lottery hype that Jackson Hayes is getting. And then the other guy is bowl bowl, which who knows, right? Who knows? That's another guy. So he, what, played nine games and broke his foot? Shot 50% from three. Yeah, Danny, I was about to say, what did he shoot from three?

Shot 50% from three. He is truly a unique prospect in his high center of gravity and his three-point shooting ability. And, you know, just the sheer size, the sheer length that he has will, create problems for other teams, but it's like, will his body hold up? Is the biggest question. And one last thing on the draft. Obviously, we have a lot of time to talk about Zion,

but I think watching Draymond Green in this postseason, the lane is there for Zion long term. He's not there yet, but the lane is there for him to be an impactful defender, not at the all-time level like Draymond, but a notch or two below that who can just affect the game, even if he's not scoring the ball. And that's partially what makes him so enticing as a prospect. It's a future potential face of league at 6, 7, 285 pounds with his mobility laterally and his verticality to block shots and alter shots.

Zion Williamson has the physical ingredients, but he also brings the effort as well. The final hole for him to fill is the intelligence on the defensive end of the floor. And at 18 years old, this past season, it's no surprise. he made a lot of mistakes and rotations, but long-term charks, I think the lane is there for Zion, for his calling card, not just to be his offense

and his dunking as everybody talks about his playmaking, but for it to be his defense. Well, and the thing that I was noticing watching these playoffs was Zion, it's like if you can pair him with a pick and roll guard

and he's said with the Draymond Steph thing, like, because if you've got like Tre Young and Zion, you can't switch that screen, and Zion's going to go crazy. Like, to me, that is what Duke didn't have last year. Imagine Zyman.

Zion setting a screen, the guard coming around it can pull up from 30 feet. All of a sudden, Zion's getting free runs to the basket. I think that's going to be a lane for him right away where you get him the right team and the right system. He's going to be great almost immediately, I think. I can't wait. May 14th, draft lottery. We'll be talking more about the draft in the coming weeks and months as well as the NBA playoffs. But it's all we have time for today, guys.

Thanks, Charks. Thanks, Dan. Absolutely. Good one. Thank you for listening to the Ringer NBA show. Please give us a five-star rating on iTunes and share the first. podcast with your friends. Be sure to check out the ringer.com as well. We have loads and loads of NBA content. We have Dan Devine on last night's Celtics Bucks game and Charks on the

greatness of Nicola Yokic. We'll have group chat that'll be in your feed late Thursday night or early Friday morning for your commute. Thank you for listening. Special shout out to Bobby Wagner for producing the podcast. Thanks again for listening. Peace out.