The Ringer NBA Show - Preseason NBA Power Rankings, Part 3 | Group Chat

Episode Date: October 3, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos return with Part 3 of their annual preseason rankings, ranking teams 20-16. San Antonio Spurs (03:36) Los Angeles Clippers (27:48) Sacramento Kings (40:09) Golden State Warriors (51:48) New Orleans Pelicans (01:06:40) The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Jessie Lopez Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, except we did 120 songs. And now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts. 2000 to 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, Jalo, Kanye, sure. And now the show is called 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, colon the 2000s. Wow.

That's too long a title for me to say anything else right now. Just trust me. That's 60 songs that explain the 90s, colin the 90s, colonel in the 20s. in the 2000s, preferably on Spotify. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Barrier joining me, as always. Rob Mahoney, big Waz. I noticed you didn't go three-piece suit today like Mace,

even though we decided that was our new look for the podcast. I mean, I still got takes. I thought about rocking some funky colored glasses, too, even though I don't wear glasses or contacts. But, you know, I've decided to keep it traditional for group chatting. I would love the glasses look for you. Are you more of like a big round frame? Kind of like the Russell Westbrook Elton John's school of giant colored glasses?

Or what are you thinking? I've never tried to do colored glasses in that way. Like, remember when Quinn Snyder was rocking the red? Oh, sure. I just can't. Oh, no. I mean, the lenses, though. Oh, that's a good question.

Yeah, we need a Quinn Snyder update on the frame situation. if it's still red, maybe it's a new year, new color. We missed that in the Hawks preview. We really did. We really did. We really did. We really did. We really did.

Rob, you always have rose-colored glasses on. Oh, look at you. Look at you. Yeah. Yeah. I remember back in the day, like, I want to say middle school, I was doing the yellow tinted ones.

Like back in the day when, when like, Power Man 5,000 was popping off. I was going that route. Yeah. Wow. You've lived some lives. fashion, Justin. I have to say. I also remember

around that time wearing well, we can't call it a wife beater anymore. I believe we'll call it an A shirt. Yeah, a tank top open with a short sleeve button down. That was the vibe. It could still be the vibe. Did you have a gold chain on or were you not that Italian

yet? No, I probably had the half of a yin yang that my friend also had another half of. Okay. It was probably more of that five, which is a weird vibe in retrospect. Now I'm offended. You've never offered us some kind of friendship bracelet situation.

Can we get a peace sign where each of us three has a part of the circle and we put it together? 100%. If you guys want to do that, I am very much down. And we should expense that, I think. That is definitely true. All right. So today's docket, part three, preseason NBA power rankings. this is when it starts to get pretty interesting.

I feel like this is our third tier, third episode. All West teams today, surprisingly enough, which I think should probably indicate how the West is going to look this season, very compacted. Anything you guys want to say before we get in here? Should we just jump on in? I would say like we're in the range of uniformly good teams, except for the first team on our list,

which I don't know how they got here. Oh, come on. I genuinely don't know. Well, last time on group chat, if you'll remember, I brought up the fact that I had ranked the spurs above the rockets, and people were very mad. One Rob Mahoney in particular, we found out, unfortunately, Rob Woz had also done that. You perhaps didn't intend to, yeah. Just in case, just to take some of the listeners behind the curtain, I didn't go through my list with a fine-tooth comb.

In fact, I'm shocked. You don't need to say that. I think they expected that. looked at my last year list and basically went off of that. I was like, okay, let's move this year, that there. All right. Yeah. Okay.

This free agent. Okay. That trade. Okay. Nuggets still number one. Yeah. I didn't put the Nuggets number one of my list. I did not.

No, but just barely. We'll get to that eventually. But I had the Spurs. I specifically tried to plot out the West. And I have the Spurs as the 10th team in the Western Conference. So I think above the clippers and above the rockets, I see them as being right in the play-in mix at the very least. That doesn't feel all that bold.

Like I feel like I'm suppressing my urge to put them higher, and I feel like I'm being more measured, Rob. I felt like you would appreciate that more than everyone. Justin, a Western Conference team last season needed 46 wins to make the play-in. Yeah. There is no way on earth this team is winning 46 games. It's not happening. Well, if the whole West is as good as we think it is, if it is indeed 14 teams deep,

probably don't need that many. What did the Thunder get when they made the play in two years ago? It was around 500. If anything, I think it was like two games under. It was like 42 or something like that. 500. That seems reasonable to me. I know it's a big jump.

The Spurs won 22 games last year, but I just think Wembenyama, first and foremost, I think is going to be better. And last year was pretty fucking good. I don't know if you guys remember. So I expect him to be a top 10 player or thereabouts yet again if he is indeed healthy. I also look at the bench and just like the depth of actual NBA players. Like let's just be honest, the spurs were punting basically half of a season last year. They were trying things out just to see if guys can do certain things.

I don't think they'll do that this year. They bring in vets like Chris Ball at the end of his rope, Harrison Barnes, not a spring chicken himself. But these are like decent NBA players. think if you just have enough decent around Wembe. You see what they did last year without that. I think they could be pretty good this year. That's why I have them in the range of like 10th, 9th. I could see them falling in that range.

Wise doesn't agree. So when you say they're better than the Clippers, who like we can keep it a thousand, like the Clippers are going to be without Cowanard Leonard a lot of the year. But like James Harding was a borderline all-star player last year. It'll probably be close to borderline of an all-star level point guard this year. You know, Norm Powell, you can go down the list of like real NBA players. And that's when Kauai Leonard is not playing.

Victor Wimaniy. If this guy misses two weeks this year, somehow misses three weeks or a month, what is this team supposed to do or be ever? You're playing through Zach Collins. Yeah, I don't see an issue. David Duke, ring a bell? Not that David Duke, y'all. The other David Duke.

Like, this team is just so thin on impact players. Yeah, yeah. Right, like, even Harrison Barnes at his best is working off of very talented guys, making their job easier, balancing out a lineup. Like, that's what Harrison Barnes is good at. The second U.S. a 32-year-old Harrison, and Barnes to start dribbling a basketball, creating for himself and potentially, like, we've lost the plot already.

I mean, and I like Trey Jones. Like, this is a guy whose game that I enjoy, but, like, he's not a threat in any way, shape, or form, right? Like, some of the young guys, like Vassell, you know, he's a threat to get to the rack. I'll give him that. He's like a guy that's pretty good. Ish. It's, it's, at that.

And that's like, you know, I saw him doing that against, like, bench units last year. When Miyama was, had a fantastic rookie season. He looked incredible at times in the Olympics. There were times where he kind of struggled with the shot, but, like, specifically the gold medal game. Like, he looked like a freaking NBA star. There's no doubt about that. But outside of him, and we don't think he's going to play, like, y'all think he's going to play 68 games this year.

I have no clue. I'm just assuming something around that next year. Let's assume 70 games. That's a good outcome for a player. That's a great outcome. I just don't see how a 19-win team turns into a 43-win team this year. I just with the guys that I'm looking at.

They're going to be better for sure. I fully expect them to get into the 30s, maybe the mid-30s, maybe even the high 30s. They don't have the sort of high-impact guys you're talking about Wazby on Wemby, but overall, they brought in players who were going to have a stabilizing effect, particularly on the offense.

Like Chris Paul, if you liked what Trey Jones brought joining the lineup as a point guard, let me introduce you to Chris Paul. He's going to do that and more and that and better. And now having two of those point guards, I think is going to be a really productive thing. And whatever limitations Harrison Barnes has at this stage are much more palatable when you're the spurs than when you're the Kings. He's going to be a good counterpoint to, you know, even just comparing him to say Jeremy Sohan, a guy who is probably more dynamic, but ultimately much

weirder, a fit and a player to have to incorporate into a lineup, Harrison Barnes, incredibly straightforward. You put him out there, he spaces, he can move off of screens, he can kind of guard multiple positions at this point, although really he's just mostly guarding fours. He can do his job, and he can do an NBA job reliably. And you're right, Justin, they do have more guys who can do that. I just don't know if they have enough to kind of overtake and make the sort of huge jump that I think they would need to make to get into the real mix in the West.

Yeah, so the flip side of this is that they do have a bench, finally, which is basically the starters from last year. It's Trade Jones, Braem, Johnson, Sohan, and Collins are the projected bench. Combined 206 starts last year alone. So they're taking that shitty starting lineup, and they're going to go against second units. I think that will help. But my big concern is Visell has to be the second guy here.

He's the only guy with any actual pop outside of Wemby. And unfortunately, it looks like he is hurt. It's a result of a foot surgery over the offseason. It seems like he'll be reevaluated November 1st. So we're already starting from a point where that's not when he's coming back. That's when they're going to decide when he might come back. Exactly. So we're talking about maybe late November.

Then we're getting to December. And I do worry that a team like the Spurs that can go one way or another might slow play it as a result, maybe play Castle a little bit more who we should talk about. They're going to be playing through, I assume, a couple minutes of Castle on the ball. That's probably not going to be great to have a rookie handling things. But I just think Wemby plus depth is a good mix. I agree that there isn't a lot of margin for error here. But as long as he's healthy, I think they're going to be in the play-in discussion for a very long time this season. Well, so when you laid out the bench, Justin, are you operating under the assumption that Castle is going to start?

No, I think he's going to be second or third gar. I think they're going to get him into the mix. It depends on what they do at the wing positions. I don't know who they're going to, because the projected starters would have been Chris Ball, Vassell, Barnes, but I don't know who's going to be the four. Barnes will be at the four. Yeah, I think Justin Champany might be the guy.

Yeah. And not a bad fit, like a pretty respectable defender at this stage and his shot is coming along where it's just solid enough. and if you're looking to put dependable play around these guys, I think that makes a lot of sense. Where I get a little worried is if you're starting Chris Paul and Devin Vassell, as we said, like, was I think even saying he's getting to the rim

on any kind of consistent basis, may be generous for how Devin Vesel likes to play. He has one ball pop. He's got pop. He's a pull-up guy. He can work, pick, and roll. He can create, and he needs to create. Especially as like a second or third option. I think he's going to settle into something

a little more downshift than he was last. year, which is actually to his benefit. Yes. And by the end of the season, I actually would really like to see, and I kind of expect to see Castle maybe joined the starters as he gets a little more acclimated to the NBA game, just because he might be the only guy in that starting five that will get to the basket on a consistent basis, even if it's just as a cutter. And I know they want to see what he can do on ball, and we all do.

But that might be a nice place for him by the end of the year. And a nice kind of like benchmark as far as like, can he crack that group where he can play with the starters in addition to playing some backup. up guard responsibilities. So what this reminds me of, honestly, um, is when we were complain in back in the days about the non-Stef minutes in Golden State or the non-yokic minutes in Denver, right?

Where like when Steph or Yokch were on the floor, they had the point differential of a 60 win team, right? And then when they would leave the floor, like things would kind of fall apart, but whatever. The team would round itself into, you know, a nice 50-something, whatever, win team, great team, threat to win in the playoffs. I think when Wembe's on the floor, they might be a 42 win team, right? To what Justin is saying.

Like, they might have the point differential of a 42 win team. When he's not on the floor, they're going to get destroyed quite horrifically. I will say, like, I don't like Kelden Johnson is the go-to-scorer on a starting unit. on an NBA team. Why not? He's not that good. But I do like him as a bench score and maybe like your eighth guy. Like I remember when the Thunder were talking about pickups at the deadline last year,

they ultimately went Gordon Hayward. Like I thought Kelvin Johnson could have played some minutes for them as like a four, three, four off the bench who can give you a little punch when you need it. Like, that makes sense to me. And so I do think their depth and their bench, even without Wembee, is obviously not star-studded, but I think it's fine. I think it's a credible bench,

which is a big upgrade from what they had last year. Huge. And you could see them get better when they move Kelden Johnson to the bench already within last season. Coming into the season,

with that being the expectation, that's going to go even more smoothly. And frankly, from the time they moved Wemby to the five, they were pretty much a league average defense. And for a team that's as young as they are, that is pretty impressive.

And that's not just zooming in on his on-court minutes. That's the Spurs overall during that stretch. of time. This is a team that is a much easier route to being a steady defense than a steady offense. And the offensive part is where you're going to see

Chris Paul get tested a little bit. And where you're going to see if Paul can only play 45 to 50 games this season, that may really end up costing them. Because they're going to need what he can provide, maybe more than any of these other new additions on the roster, or even some of the guys who are coming into their own. Like, Wimby

can't do it all in terms of offensive creation clearly. But he's a just a sizzling defensive player in prospect. And for all the ways we talk about him kind of breaking new ground, to be second in defensive player of the year voting as a rookie is fucking preposterous.

And one of the things we need to throw on the board now as a possibility for his career is he could become the first player ever to win five defensive player of the year awards starting this season. He could very easily win this season right now. In a row? Well, if he's going to win it,

he might have to win in a row. You say these guys get him in a row. Yeah, you got to rattle off three or so in a row before the voting turns, and then maybe you come back to it and get some later. Ben Wallace, Dwight Howard, they got like a bunch in a row of those guys. So Ben Walsh is one of the only guys to win four, DeKimbe Matumbo, who we talked about earlier this week, won four. Rudy Gobert famously has won four.

No one's ever gotten five, but if you're... Famously. One of my favorite things over the offseason, though, was waiting for all the quotes to come out about Webenyama, because when he first joined the league, there was that typical backlash, first and foremost, from the Draymond Green types. But then over the Austin, it was like, oh, shit, this guy's good. Like, I went up against this guy, and he's legit.

And, like, he's kind of terrifying, just trying to navigate around his long limbs. So I think it's very legit. And I do, that's part of why I think you have to be encouraged about the Spurs. It's like, the defense can only be so bad with him warping the geometry of how basketball is played, right? we maybe didn't mention enough Devin Vassell if he is going to be a prominent part of this team

and he should be very talented, good creator, potential is a good two-way player, currently injured, said to be re-evaluated at the beginning of November with a stress reaction which those things can be kind of fidgety

as far as like the timetables go. I hope he's ready to go because just in all the depth you're talking about in terms of this being a competent bench looks very, very different if Devin Vasseh is not sopping up like 32 minutes a game.

What do you mean, Rob? we could just slot Sohan into point Sohan again. That would be great. Go back. That is a thing you could do. We have to go back. What are you guys most excited about seeing from Wembe this year? Is it like one part of his game, like maybe the offense was?

I think for me is even just in year two, how much ownership he takes of the club. Because he's, it's one thing for be a rookie to be clearly the franchise player, blah, blah, blah. Like, it's a little hard to come in at 20 years old, 19 years old, and start telling a roster full of grown men what to do and assume the leadership mantle. I think this year is going to be a little bit different, man. He's going to clearly be the guy that everybody is looking to to lead the club, even only in his second year,

even only as he's about to just turn legal drinking age. And that to me is really... Well, in France. Well, in France, yeah, they don't have an age for drinking wine, for sure. Yeah. I think that's what's most exciting to me because, again, and I think this bears repeating by all indications, this is a kid who, like, really is taking this very seriously and is a maniac about winning. And if that's the guy with this next level, alien-like... talent and he's a maniacal worker and leader and cares about the right things as it pertains to

winning basketball and he's leading y'all into the future at age 20 you know that to me is excited because again like you look around the league and you know we talked about tray young like it's been the opposite with trey young he hasn't been he's been handed the keys to the franchise but he hasn't been some great team galvanizer and leader right i think wemby what's exciting about him is that he is going to be that. And I would like to see him step into that direction this year. He's been about all the right things so far. And for someone who's coming in with the level of acclaim and hype that he did,

I think has just really pitched perfectly the balance between competitive pride and humility. Right. Like he wants to beat people. He wants to kill people on the court. He says all the right things. He defers to all the right people. And I think that's part of the reason what I'm looking. excited about Justin is seeing the Chris Paul collab with him of how those guys work together

in the pick and roll because look, if you're a veteran who's been in the league for 12 years and Chris Paul is chirping at you because you were six inches off and your pick and roll placement, I could see that getting a little tiring and maybe for Victor it will too, but he is a guy with a lot to learn and a lot to learn in terms of how he positions his body, where he goes on the floor, how to make best use of his skills. And I think Chris Paul can be a great, if not mentor, than at least someone who can work with him collaboratively on that stuff. Listen, people only want to collaborate

with Chris Paul for like two years, three tops. But you look at everyone he has collaborated with at the start and it has been to that player's benefit. Shea, even Blake Griffin starting there, James Harden entering a new phase of his career, Devin Booker and the Sons,

everywhere he's been David West on and on. He is the right player. Yeah. Right player to bring a younger player to the next level. My favorite thing with Wembe is just seeing the, not only the outrageous stats, but the outrageous numbers

about his body, and we already started getting some over training camp, which was that he apparently gained 26 pounds. And I have to say overall in the NBA, muscle watch is out of control where it used to be like 5 to 10. Now we're talking 20 to 30 to 40 pounds. I'm like, there's no way this is real.

Well, there's always been jackedflation in the NBA. You know this. Like, it's it's always a little distorted. Nobody is putting on 20 pounds of muscle over a couple months. It's just not a thing that's realistically going to get up. Except for me. That's a work in progress. We don't want to let all the secrets out yet.

I've been wearing a lot of long sleeves to keep those under wraps. But realistically, yeah, it's good to get in the weight room. He's a guy who needs not just upper body strength, but honestly lower body strength, too. So anything he's putting on at this point, I think it's a net gain. It's just with players his size, even as they start adding, you worry about what that's going to do to his body, about what that's going to mean in terms of injury. So I think this gets us to our essential question,

which is what outfit do you guys want to wear when the spurs make the play in? Do we do it? Do you want to bet? The thing is, this is the thing. Like, for Rob, it will just be him wearing your school picture outfit from grade school, right? It's just going to be a big belt buckle,

bolotide, you know, Cowboy hat, maybe a mustache, fake mustache. It's too easy. That is very, look, that stuff's already in the closet. Let's be real. Yeah. But I would love, I would love to get some cowboy hat action in here, some Yehaw action in here, for sure.

I was thinking we could do the Tim Duncan MVP fit, which is just like a loose t-shirt and jorts. It's just like a punisher, button-down t-shirt. And when they don't, Rob, does Justin have to wear like a beret, like from France or whatever? I like this. like this. Should we lock it in then?

Let's lock it in. Lock it in. I want to see you with the side, B'Rei. We can negotiate the terms. I think Beret is a good start. I want to see the full, like, striped shirt.

Like, I want the complete cliche from you, Justin. That's all I'm saying. I'm down. I might just keep that look in perpetuity. Okay.

Going in solidarity with Wembe. That's right. Any other guys or things? We want to mention here. I mean, we haven't mentioned Castle. Yeah, enough, certainly. I don't, like, I feel like a lot of the draft guys that I sort of paid attention to,

nobody's really been that excited, particularly about, like, his fit next to Wembe. I think there's this idea that the Spurs look at it, like, look, we have a five who can, who's going to be able to shoot the hell out of the ball at some point in his career, so we can de-emphasize that in some of our wings. What do you guys think about that just as a concept? Obviously, the shooting at the five is most valuable when it's additive, right? When it's like building on other great shooters at other positions. I just don't think Castle should be the breaking point of that idea, right?

You can get good shooting out of the cell, potentially great shooting from other prospects or players you add down the line. Based on what I've seen of Castle, which admittedly is limited, like I'm not crunching the college tape on him that hard. But the feel for the game and the way he uses. space, that's the kind of player that I want with Victor Webb and Yama. There's going to be enough guys you can get who are shooters and spacers who can add in the way that you want to build your overall sort

of framing of the court. But who is cutting? Who knows how to navigate the floor in an intelligent way? Who can drive the ball aggressively on offense and has like a knack for not only just like finishing to the rim at full speed, but the little floater game and the kind of in between improvisational ability

that I think Castle has shown so far. So those are the kinds of things that I'm excited about Justin. I mean, I feel like he could be a really good fit with Wembe in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, the shooting is going to be a slow process. I'm not sure that he can't do that long term. The shot looked pretty good when we saw him at Summer

League. I think it's the other stuff that you have to be excited about. It's the size. It's the feel for the game, as Rob mentioned. And I also think the defensive shot... I think he immediately will probably be a pretty good defender. It's partly why I think the bench could be pretty good there. They have a lot of size and the type of switchability

that you want, especially next to Wemby long term. And so I also like the idea that they didn't go out and take a second pick. They traded that other draft pick to the Wolves and they picked Rob Dillingham. I know people were maybe excited that they can get both guys in there just to kind of really ratchet this up around Wembe. But like, to me that signaled there's a long term plan for Casson to perhaps be the ball handler. And if he's your main ball handler, like you're going to have a pretty good big switchable team around Wembe, which is what I think you should be doing. Well, it's speaking of guys that Chris Paul could have a really positive influence on.

Like, Waz, if you have Castle coming up a little more slowly rather than being handed a lot right out of the gate and can learn from a guy like CP, that position seemed pretty well to be that sort of lead ball handler. Yeah, I mean, for me, the reason why I ask is because I think one of Wemeyama's closest

comps is Porzingis, and he looked most unlocked ever in his career in Boston when they put him in a five-out lineup. He seemed completely, unguarded, unstoppable, unstoppable because he had

all this shooting around him. And I wonder if that should be the lane that the Spurs take, rather than just taking his shooting

for granted and being like, look, we could put a bunch of non-shooters around him and have a more versatile group, right? Yeah.

Any other guys? I feel like the Spurs is really where you shine in this category, Rob. Oh, wow. Well, look. Just naming guys.

Huge, huge off-season development. elements here. This has to be the first team in NBA history with two Malachi's on it. Can you point to another? And they got Malachi Flynn. They brought Nassafin' different spellings, admittedly.

Also on this front, and I have this one confirmed, they are the first team in NBA history with two Harrisons. Because these are the only two Harrisons in NBA history, Harrison Barnes and Harrison Ingram. Harrison Ingram? I don't know who that is. Do we think their families named them after Harrison Ford? you think Harrison Barnes is named after Harrison Ford? That's kind of the age, right?

Indiana Jones. I am not going to remove the possibility that literally any woman could give birth and say, I want to name my child after Harrison Ford. That is a good omen for your birth. Yeah. How did you look that up, by the way? Well, like, just look on basketball reference for Harrison. These are literally the only two guys.

The only two Harrisons in the history of life. Anyone else? You want to mention? Charles Bassi, perhaps, again. Sure. Sandrew Mamukalishvili. Like, there's guys. Um,

Muketish-Gilly. Uh, I think we've, I think we've touched on the important guys and the important Malachi's aside. I probably am just vamping because I don't want to get to the number 19 team on this list, which is the Los Angeles Clippers. Can we just like D&P this and just skip them entirely? What do you guys think? Let's do it.

Okay. Um, I'm so fucking sick of this whole thing. Like, the fact that. even started yet. The fact that Kauai, we got the update as soon as they hit the day as on Media Day, it's like, oh, I don't know, not doing X, Y, Z. It's just like, God damn, I can't do this again. My heart can't take this.

We as group chat are ramping up to get ready to potentially participate in previewing the Clippers season, and we will do it at a later date. What I am excited for, though, is the death of, the clippers might be the best team in any other. No, no, we're not doing it. Paging Michael Pina, paging Michael Pina to the courtesy phone. We are done.

You know, we've done this every single year since 2019, 2020 season, and it's officially over. We never have to pretend that the clippers will actually threaten for a championship for a long time, not as long as this is the nucleus of what the clippers.

are doing. And so I'm happy for that that I can just, you know, ignore these guys. Go check out the wall every now and again when I get bored. The wall does look sick. You know, just check out the new grub. Did you guys see the video for the new grub at the Intuit

Dome? I watched it. It might have been like a Bon Appetit episode of like the Clippers food director explaining all of the grub and how they kept the prices low. I'm excited about doing that in Intuit Dome. Watching James Hardin, do a Luca Donchich, aka, you know, Vintage James Hardin impersonation for 75 games?

No, thank you. I'm not excited for that. Well, to tie those two ideas together, I don't know if you guys saw that Gavin Newsom gave a special exception to the Intuit Dome. Specifically, the VIP lounge is the only place in California that's allowed to serve alcohol until 4 a.m. Oh, wow. I thought you were going to say they're going to serve French laundry.

Well, that would be nice too. But, you know, is that the James Harden rule, I think is ultimately what I'm asking. You know, are we, are we carving out some space for our guy to cook? The only place you could party late in L.A. is at the Intuit Dome. Apparently. I feel like this is your calling. We need boots on the ground reporting from that party scene at 2.30 a.m. I'll just say this.

You will not catch me partying in Englewood. past 10 p.m. ever in my life. What do you think about that, Justin? Great Jamaican in Englewood, though. I'll see that. I will. Yeah, I don't know about it was, but I actually love Englewood after 10. Well, why don't we get into the essential question, which is that one person on the Clippers thinks there's still hope, and that's one Norm Powell, because he had a pretty infamous now quote at Media Day saying, perhaps this is addition by subtraction, meaning Paul George. So I'm curious, is there any way that that could be true, Rob? No.

Yeah. No. No, no, no, absolutely not. But to the extent that it is true for anyone, Norm Powell is that guy. In fairness to him, he has a player who I think can fairly look at the construction of the team last season and say he was not doing as much as he could do. Norm can go off for like 18 to 20 points a game on average if you let him do that. will that make you a like supremely competitive team?

I think it depends on your defense ultimately. Like if you can build something competent around that and he's cooking and Kauai's cooking to the extent that Kauai's healthy and James Hardin's dishing, maybe there's something to that idea for Norm Powell because it is Norm Powell time perpetually. Who is the other player on this roster, if anyone, that you're looking at and saying

they will really benefit from the additional airspace of Paul George not being here. The touches, the usage, the points. Is there anyone you're excited about doing more? Excited about no. But I think Kevin Porter can. If Kevin Porter is not being a complete psychopath. Well, I got bad news for you.

For the first time in his life, for long stretches at a time, right? Like, he's shown that he can be a guy that can create, fill it up, do all those kinds of things. He's just been the most unreliable, irresponsible, toxic NBA player of what, the last... I don't even know. Like, I can't even remember a guy who's been this poisonous, man, in terms of what he's doing off the court and just never really becoming... Like, obviously he's got all of these gifts. But it's never really translated into...

competent team winning basketball, not for long stretches ever in his career, but he's such an obviously talented guy with the ball in his hands. I guess you could say like, yeah, potentially Kevin Porter Jr. could be a guy that could give the clippers some shot creation, but let's be real, like to get back to what Norm Powell said,

like, this is a blessing in disguise or addition by subtraction. When Paul George didn't play last year, the lineups went off a cliff. They couldn't muster competence without Paul George last year. Just the fact. You can look at any metric you want. That's just what it was.

Like this guy was legitimately second team, third team, all NBA level guy when he played for the clippers. Like the idea that he's going to be gone and it's going to be better is insane. So here's devil's advocate. Okay, I don't agree that the clippers

will be better as a result. I think they need Kauai, first and foremost. And if he's not going to be there, this team isn't going to be very good. I think we all agree about that. If he was in there, you could see where they wouldn't be as good, but they could at least be competitive. First and foremost, getting Derek Jones Jr. in there as a clear, like, defender, wing defender that you can turn to.

And it doesn't have to worry as much about the offensive side. They were a middle tier defense last year. If they could be better on defense and Harden Leonard do enough offensively, then there's like a pathway for that. Sure. I'm going to give you three stats here. The two best player in isolation last year on a points per possession basis.

Quiet Leonard, James Harder. Pretty good, right? Good starting point. Number two player in post-up, points per possession, Avisa Subotch. Yes. The best corner three-point shooter

in the NBA last year, Norm Powell. So it's like there's stuff here, but obviously needs Leonard to be the driving force that if he's not there, it doesn't matter. Yeah, there's stuff there. There's just no safety net without Paul George. That's kind of the issue.

It's not just the injuries, but it's the lineup stuff that we've been talking about. When Kauai was on the floor as a solo star last season, the Klippers lost those minutes. When Kauai and Hardin played together without Paul George, the Clippers lost those minutes. When Hardin played without Paul George or Kauai, it was even worse.

And so what are we expecting to happen here? Because this is just life now. And Kevin Porter Jr. is not going to save you. But look, if you have the chance to sign an inconsistent player with losing habits, clearly you have to do it. And if that player also assaulted and strangled his girlfriend and pled guilty this year, clearly you have to do it and give him a player option.

Like, what other choice do you have? Not good. No. So what else are we looking forward to here? Is it more man? This is the thing is like, the clippers have a lot of players I like, but not necessarily a lot of players I like doing more. And Terence Mann is one of these guys.

So I really like as a role player, I really like as a supporting part. I just don't necessarily want to see his game stretch to the limit. I think he's best in energy, in doses, in a contained role. Same thing for Derek Jones Jr., who's going to have to do more than he did in Dallas. I don't think that's going to go super well. One piece of good business for them, they brought in Chris Dunn as a backup guard. Chris Dunn was just straight up better than Russell Westbrook last year.

And Justin, as you're outlining the sort of, okay, if they can get the James Harden offense stuff rolling, if Kauai's healthy and they build this competent defense, Chris Dunn is going to be a part of that competent defense. Really good in your Jersey defender, who I think can help them with that part of things. Yeah, but Tomb 2, right? There was a logic to the follow-ups to getting rid of George. I still don't totally understand getting rid of George

after you committed to Leonard and then Harden. But at the very least, the follow-ups are like, oh, these are interesting guys. Even like a Mo-Bamba, like, we'll see. Can he be a backup center? I don't know, but might as well give him a shot at it. I don't know if you guys, you guys don't watch college football. Mo'bomba, the song, is just like a total job.

jock jam now. Really? Mm-hmm. Which I kind of like, so, like, maybe there's some synergy there. Maybe it bumps a little bit more than Intuit dome, and you hear that a couple times? The wall gets a little going. I don't know. The song has been a banger

since 2019, which is approximately how long Moabamba has been a bit of disappointment. So, I don't think it's resurgence is going to help him out. But I would say to,

Bones Highland is somebody I still have a soft spot for when I'm not watching him play defense. So, you know, I'll still be interested to see what he's able to do if he's able to, like, revive his career in any meaningful way because there's going to be opportunities on this team. I think Amir coffee is an underrated guy as well. Was. You're speaking my language.

Let's fucking go. I think he's a player, man. I think on a real team, like, he could get, like, He could get, like, legitimate playoff minutes. Like, he's got size. He shoots it. Like, I like a mirror. Like, like, Rob said, like, I like the guys on the team.

It's just, this is done. This is over. And I thought Bill, um, on the pod that you guys did recently, Rob made a good point. And, like, the idea of, like, why did they let Paul George go? Because it's over. Even if they brought him back. Kauilandar has a degenerative knee. It's not getting better.

It's getting worse. There's no way for this to actually be a serious. championship thing. But you know what? We can roll out some Hall of Fame, future Hall of Fame, LA natives that got a little bit

of tanking the gas. We can be respectable on night to week. I'm sure, like, O.K., a roll in here one night and the Clippers will give them a hard time. You know, Denver,

they'll give them some problems or whatever. Boston, they'll give them a game one of these days this season. But in terms of, are they going to fight for, like, the five

or the six seed in the West? No, they're not. Of course not. They're done. The jerseys are nicer. That's kind of cool. We'll take it. We'll take it. Dude, I'm on ESPN.com trying to find like,

you know, like you click on the teams and like all of the teams in the NBA go up. And I'm like trying to find the logo. I'm like, where is this thing? I don't see it. Yeah, it's nautical now. Their semen. They had to get it right. They had to go back to their semen days.

It's very important. I'm honestly very, I can't wait to check out the new building. I do think it's going to be dope. As far as like state of art, new arenas go, genuinely looks very exciting. I just wish that the basketball product befitted that in literally any way.

I went to a MLS game last night and they had the same sort of deal. It was the Timbers Army. Pretty cool. You're so Portland already that it's genuinely sickening. Did you go to a single MLS match while you lived in L.A.?

No, of course not. But the timbers are a way of life up there, though. It's a whole thing. I know. I also have the LAFC hat, which I always wear, but I intended to be a fan. So you just was able to wrap. You was able to wrap it without going. I feel you.

That's right. LAFC till I die, except for. Except for now. Yeah. Timbers games. It's pretty cool. Shouts of the Timbers. Number 18 on our list, Sacramento Kings, who've had a very active off season.

Yeah. Very active off season. I think a lot of people are talking about what's happening. happening in Sacramento. Wait, they actually did. They traded for Demar de Rosen. Is that not active enough? I was talking about something else that we're talking about before the show.

We don't have to get into that. Right into the essential question, perhaps, who's the fifth starter? Should I say it like the Hogan at the Bash at the Beast? Who's the third man? Who's the fifth starter? This is lost on me. I got no clue what you're talking about.

NWO talk. Come on. There you go. But you assume it's, it's Sabonis, Fox, Murray, who am I missing? Damar.

Damar. And then who? I think it should be Keon Ellis. Oh, okay. Just throw away offense at that position? Well, let's be honest about what the alternatives are at that position. Really, the only viable alternative as it looks right now is Malik Munk.

And then it's just a question of how you want to stagger your scores from starters to bench. I like Monk coming off. the bench. If we're going to talk about Kevin Herder, which I think we should, he's still rehabbing a shoulder injury. The shot was not there last year. And that's not a permanent state, but it's something to monitor

even when he comes back. And so I look at what Keon Ellis brought to that starting group, and he was a huge part of their defensive surge late in the season. And if the Kings are going to be better, it's going to be merging the offensive team they were two seasons ago and the defensive team they were over the back half of last year. He feels like a good way to try to do some of that.

Yeah, I tend to agree with Rob because, like, even doing something like Tray Lows, who I think has made himself into like a just solid professional NBA player. Like, if you're like, well, we want to start a real power forward, um, Trey Lows don't really play defense like that. So you're, you're just doing all offense at that point. And I don't know. I think you do need some resistance, man. at least if you're not going to do it on the interior, at least be doing something on the perimeter in terms of not giving people an easy pass lane to the rack. So I tend to agree with Rob, man. Like, there needs to be some like patina of like, yo, we believe in defense. And

like, we get it. We're starting DeMar de Rosen and DeMontis bonus. But we're still going to try. Yeah. You know, we're. Keegan can get after it. And Deer and Fox, I think, can be a little bit spotty, but a really good pressure defender when he wants to be, a steals demon when he wants to be. He has a lot on his shoulders in a way that you can't expect your superstars to be awesome defenders all the time.

But he's a good one, especially among stars. Yeah, I would probably lean more toward Hurtr to take the first crack at it because he probably blends the two things you're looking for a little bit better, whereas I feel like Ellis is the defensive option. Monk is the offensive option. Ellis shot well from three last year, but I think we would agree that he's not getting guarded all that much out there. Also very low volume too, we should say. 100%. Yeah, he's like three a game. Herder did not shoot well last year. Didn't have a good season overall last year. But he is a good shooter. Like I don't think anyone would disagree with like his

ability to shoot. I mean, the year before last, Justin, they were using him like he was Reggie Miller. He was basically like coming off. He was like the come catch and shoot movement off ball. Like, that's what he was doing. Like, it's not like he was some spot-up little bullshit three-point shooter. They were diversifying his attempts and, like, building their offense around the idea that this guy was a major threat. And then last year, he turned into, you know, Tony Allen, which I believe that he's closer to Reggie Miller than he is Tony Allen. That is true. Late career, Tony Allen?

Cooking on podcast, Tony Allen. That's what he's doing. We can get that later. Yeah, but if the laborum tear is still lingering, like, you don't really have much of an option because I do think Monk closes for this team, right? I think a lot of cases. But it's really a matter, again, of like how you want to stretch out the creative resources that you have. And in thinking about the Kings and projecting their season, I feel like collectively as a media body, we are probably underestimating how important and

how valuable it's going to be to have three creators to stagger in the way that DeRosen and Fox and Subonis are going to be staggered throughout the lineup, throughout the night. And Monk is kind of, you know, chipping in in that regard too. Just because the Kings were so weirdly inconsistent. They were so flighty. They blew so many games. They crashed and burned in so many games against bad teams. That stuff is not going to happen with Demarder Rosen coming in and playing a ton of

minutes and giving you a lot of creation. And like or don't like his game to whatever extent you imagine him to be or understand him to be. But he stabilizes teams. He did it for the Bulls. He won them a lot of games that they shouldn't have. I think the combination of him and Fox and crunch time is going to be huge. Those are two great late game performers.

I just think overall there's more stability here than there was last year. And that could get them, if not into the top six, then knocking on the door on that mark in a way where they may not just be in the mix. They may be the best of the play-in teams. Look, a closing lineup with Sabonis at the 5 and Murray at the 4, and then you basically have Damar, Monk, and Deerrin Fox. That's a lineup. I would pay money to watch, like literally, in person.

On offense, for sure. I would pay money to watch. The thing is, when you're closing with that defensively, it just seems like such, like you're plugging up so many leaks. But in the regular season, we've seen teams be able to paper over those kinds of defensive problems by just being mega committed to a defensive philosophy and being consistent, you know,

consistency and just like busting your hump can go a long way in the regular season. I've seen it before, you know, particularly with some of these Tom Tibuto teams. But I just, I don't know, man. Like, I still worry about what these guys can do ultimately on defensive. And if, you know, just wanting to when caring

is going to be able to muster up, like, league average defense. Yeah. This is team high floor. This is team Saturday night in a game that they shouldn't probably win. They win because DeMargarozen willed them, took them by the scruff, and won that game because that's what he does. And that's what

Simonus does. That's what Fox does. I worry, like, where is their ceiling? Is it just the plan? Is it just making the playoffs? But this is still a team without much of a history of making the playoffs. And so I'm sure they'll be fine with that. That's more of a two to three years down the road sort of problem. Yeah.

Obviously, given their trajectory and the fact that they had the breakthrough and then a little bit of a setback, you would love to see them take some big surge forward. But look at the West. OKC, Minnesota, Denver, Dallas, Memphis. I'm going to put Phoenix as a team that I expect to be at least a really good regular season team. That's six. Like, that could be the top six right there. And if you don't feel like you can be competitive or overwhelmingly better than those teams,

then you're fighting for one of those last two spots. I think this is the kind of season where winning, like, Like getting a play-in spot and getting in the eight that actually go to the playoffs is an achievement. And if that's where the- I wouldn't say that, but like the beam, you know? Like we can take a little bit of a victory lap for a job well done by delivering on the promise of like, look, you beat Steph Curry and LeBron James and Dionne Williamson to get here potentially.

Like, that's a huge thing. So you guys don't think that the ball handling stuff will cause any overlap or issues. we're seeing it more as an advantage that they have so many guys that can do it? I think so. I mean, how do you feel about that, Waz? It becomes a problem a little bit when DeRosen doesn't have the rock.

I mean, we've seen him, like, try to get up more threes and try to be more conscious of the fact that he has to take spot-ups. But when DeRosen does have the ball, like Fox can shoot, man, like an open spot-up three. Like, that's not an issue for him. We know Malik Monk

can shoot the freaking leather off Rock. Kagan Murray, same thing. Like, I think it only becomes a little bit clunky when Damar is off the ball. And maybe you put him in the corner and be like, yo, Demar, we need you to make corner threes. You know, perhaps he becomes a guy that can make, you know, the most simplified three-point shot. But I'm not too worried about it, man, because these are like elite on ball guys. And nobody is horrific in terms of just taking a shot. Yeah. No ball dominant, like, pounders.

who are going to demand it. Yeah. Yeah. I think if anything, the Fox Monk stuff worked fairly seamlessly late in games where they were pretty nails.

And so I imagine the synergy of it all will work its way out. I also think this is setting itself up to be a pretty important King and Mern season because it seems like he's going to be the guy that you want playing off of all of these guys,

the release foul, the guy you want to take a step forward defensively. I think we were all high on him going into last season, Rob, but had kind of more of a mixed season, but then he shows up as Summer League and he's like not only too good for Summer League,

like he shouldn't even been thought up to even play in those games. That's insane that he was even there. There was never a question. Yeah, like not the most inspiring season from him last year, but I think I really like him and believe in him as a prospect. And he's big. He showed last year, even amongst, like, offensive struggles relatively to what he can do,

that he can really guard. And so if he's as big as he is and mobile as he is and can guard that way, you either believe in his shot or you don't, and I believe in it. And so I'm just kind of waiting for everything to coalesce for him, but it feels like it could be a huge Kagan-Murie season. Yeah.

Any more guys for things? For me, it's just Scalabia. Obviously, my bias is known, fellow Haitian brother. Let's go. Has he been in the league since 1920, but if just so folks can remember. 1920? Since the roaring 20s? Yes.

And so he was the number two, if not number one, recruit coming into Kentucky, he had a basically so-so season first-round pick. He showed flashes in the early portions of his career. Flashes of what? Like, you know, he's a guy with size who moves his feet, slightly skilled. Like, he's shown

some potential. I want to see on his return to league if he can have anything at age 28, man. Sometimes you got to get jettison from the league to realize you need to embrace a role and bust your hump to stay in the league. We would all love to see it. I don't

that we're going to see it. But the Kentucky Mafia is very strong out in Sacramento. It's thriving out there, that's for sure. I'll just note Devin Carter, 13th pick in the draft. Absolute menace. I think he's like 35. He might qualify for ARP

in the middle of the season. I think one of the oldest rookies in recent years, frankly, got hurt, wasn't at Summer League, but that's the type of guy that everyone's going to love as soon as they see him be able to defend on the ball, I think. He also just feels like even age considerations aside,

just like the style of play of a rookie that will actually get minutes and will actually be a factor in this rotation. So I think there should be a spot for him here. Yeah. All right. Let's flip across the bay to number 17, the Golden State Warriors tied with our number 16 team who we'll get to later on.

Isaiah Blakely, our usual producer, broke those ties, believed in the other team and not this team as a result. I'm going to start with this Steph Curry quote coming out of training camp. Okay. I think we're in a position where we can be a relevant team early

and give ourselves a chance to compete. Then assess where we are. Your 20, 24, 25, Golden State Warriors, they might be relevant. Put it on a poster, baby. Let's go. Let's see where we are. Let's see it.

We might be good. Is that going to be on the like seasonal guide, the pamphlets they hand out? at Chase Center this year where people get to know the players and the stats and it's like might be relevant. I know you guys paid

hundreds of thousands of dollars for these season tickets and I know it's like literally the most expensive ticket in all of NBA basketball but they might be relevant. That's what you're paying for guys. I just want the shirt, big text we believe,

small text that we might be irrelevant team. That's a free idea. Go make your billion dollars. We believe we might be relevant. Let's go. I think we all feel the same about the Warriors. I think we're optimistic that maybe some of the guys they brought in this off season will be better than the names on paper.

But I think we also agree with Steph Curry and that they probably need something a little bit more dramatic to take a dramatic leap in the West. But I think they're going to be above average, probably on both sides of the ball. I think they're just going to be a pretty stout, pretty competitive. competitive team. Steph is obviously awesome. I actually do like the guys they brought in. It's not Paul George or Lowry Markinen, but given what the Warriors had to work with,

I think they did a pretty decent bit of business here. Look, I'm, you know, I'll always have a soft spot for the Warriors. And, you know, if you talk to some Warriors, sympathetic guys, like, Drayman missed the gang of games. And, like, if he would have played all of those, we would have played closer.

Why did he miss those, though? Like, what happened? If we wouldn't have missed those, we could have played closer to a 50 win pace and blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, I'm sympathetic to those ideas that if Draymond and Steph are pretty healthy, if they have good injury luck this year and the young guys, not just comminga, but Pajemski and the like, just improve where they, you know, they didn't bring in better players, but they have internal improvement,

that this could be a better team than we're expecting them to be. be. It's just one of those things, man, where if Steph or Draymond don't play for any reason whatsoever, this team is cooked. They're not going to be good. And so that's where I'm at with these guys. But, you know, I found myself during the Olympics, watching Steph with the magical run and, you know, in the semis and then in the gold medal game and all the interviews and the hugs and the crying and just being emotional about, you know, watching Steph play for the rest of the,

of his career. So I'll still be excited to watch these guys hoop. It's just hard for me to think that they'll be a meaningful playoff team. And if they do get into the playoffs, make any kind of like noise for real. This team is incredibly small to the point where Draymon had a quote in training camp where he apparently told Kyle Anderson, welcome to being a center in the NBA, which is a little startling. So the starting lineup is projected to be Steph. We'll talk about who starts at the two, Wiggins, Cominga Dremond, which that's smaller than the death lineup,

which was also going small in contrast to the way the NBA was at that time. Yeah, but I think it points to some of the weirdness and the tensions that exist within this roster, because if you start Dremont at the four, it becomes much harder to put Cuminga into that lineup. You almost have to put Wiggins in there for the spacing. And so it's like, I like the Dremont, like Trace Jackson Davis is a really,

really good player who fits the way that the Warriors play who can play well next to Draymond. But both of those guys as non-shooters plus the Cumminga like up and down shooting out there just like does not work. Well, Coming is a small forward. I don't know if you knew that. He says that he's a small forward, but he's willing to play a different position for now.

I support him in all of his endeavors. I just think there's a lot of those sorts of calls where it's like a lot of if-then ripple effects. Or if you start Pajemski, what does that do for your second unit? If you start Dremont at the five, how long for one can he even sustain that? And what does that mean for your depth chart? There's, there's a lot of that kind of stuff happening. So why don't we get into the question here, which I think kind of circles around what we're talking about, which is which are the new additions, specifically,

the Anthony Melton, Buddy Heald, Kyle Anderson will have the biggest impact on Golden States, bottom line. I think it's also dovetails with like what they do at that final fifth star position, because I think Melton's an option, I think Heald's an option. I think Bejomsey's an option-wise. So do you think any of those guys, the veterans are a better approach that? To me it's Melton, because I think when he plays, when he's not injured, he's going to give them quiet as kept about 70 to 5 to 80% of what Clay Thompson was doing. And much better defense than this era of Clay Thompson. Much better defense.

And one of the high maintenance, oh, I've won the four rings, give me all the shots and minutes that I deserve and blah, blah, blah. Like, I think Melton is going to be a revelation for a Warriors fan, specifically when he's playing next to Steph. it's going to be, you know, I think that's the direction they need to go. And if they're not going that direction, it's because Pajemski is just making it impossible for them not to play him, which is a great problem to have.

It's like, all right, this guy's improved so much. He's so freaking good. We have to play them. But I think they should be going definitely in the Melton direction to start off the season. Just based off what he did last year. Completely. He would be my pick too. Melton has always been like an if you know, you know kind of guy.

star role player when healthy, huge when healthy, asterisks, italics, underlying. That's always the issue with him. Can he stay on the floor? Pajemski might make more sense coming off the bench just because he's one of the Warriors' best creators at this point, who is not Steph Curry. So spacing those guys out, I think, could have some tangible benefits.

I really want to like Kyle Anderson with his team. And I think he fits the way the Warriors play in some senses. But the fact that he is like the seventh non-shooter in the lineup makes it a little harder to place him. New Dario Sarge. Yeah. I mean, Dario can at least fake it. He's a great Draymond facsimile on offense, for sure.

It's just he doesn't bring any of the defensive interior intensity that Dremont brings. He's more of like a- He's a good defender, though. He's a good defender. He's a good defender. He's getting posted up to death by anybody who plays credible center in our league. right? And so I think that's the clunkiness of it. It's like him and Jemar can't play together. So he has to replace him. But then like, are you playing them with a big who actually does give you good

defense on the interior? It just becomes a little clunky. Yeah. I agree with you guys. I think Melton is definitely the one to watch their 38 games last year. Unfortunately, and it was a back issue, which is something you always have to keep an eye on. The fact that he only signed a one-year deal is like good piece of business. On the other hand, like maybe there's a reason he signed a one-year deal that he wanted to prove it contract before he went somewhere else. I worried that because of the defensive issues overall,

that they'll probably have to be playing healed more because they're going to have to shoot their way into victories. I think it's like this type of thing where they come into the season talking about defense and then all of a sudden you find yourself needing to make up grounds where it's like throw in buddy healed. Let's just try to

shoot the lights out and win games that way. Pajemski is interesting though where he's such a good connection. and he got a lot of heat this offseason, Rob, because he was in trade talks, specifically in marketing reportedly. And it seemed like the Warriors were reticent to trade him. I don't know if that's just marketing

or just like putting it out there to make it seem like his values more than it is. But like, there seems to be a lot of like, what's Brandon Prasemski's deal now? Is he like, how good is he? I think he's already really good. And I think he's the kind of really good that's going to play well with almost anybody.

And those are the players you should be loath to give up unless you get something pretty overwhelming in return. So, like, yeah, trading him for potentially someone like Lowry Markinen, who would make the Warriors a better team today, but not good enough to actually contend, I don't know that that should move you. I think you should probably bet on Brandon Pajemski's future and the idea of what he can be,

not only for this version of the Warriors, but the next version of them, too. He's an incredibly dynamic player who is absolutely a Steve Kerr guy. And I think the other highlight of this summer, in addition to the trade talks, is coming out of Team USA, like pre-camp, was one of the stars for the select team and the guy that Cooper Flagg said that was the guy I love playing with right like that's like if you're a high level

basketball player he said that about Brandon Benjamin Benjamin he said who did you enjoy playing with the team USA a team that I mean obviously I think he's referring more to who he was playing with on his team yeah yeah yeah yeah but he picked Brandon Pajmsky that's amazing my boy summer there you go

hey listen man solidarity We need more white solidarity in this country. You already hear on group chat. So for the 90th time, Andrew Wiggins is going to be a big part of this team. I'm sure. I honestly think he's the swing guy if we want to nominate someone. Kerr's talking about him taking more threes.

I was startled to find out that he's only taking about four threes a game. Kerr was like, oh, he needs to be six and seven, which I think speaks to the overall shooting concerns that they have with this team. But like, if Wiggins good, this team is probably going to be pretty good. if he's not, they're probably in this 10th play in Marass that we've been talking about. Yeah, I got to say something, man, because Draymond got into it with one of the local reporters where the reporter was like, look, fans are worried about you.

And Draymond got really defensive. And I got to say, like, the reporter was right, but so was Dremont, in the sense that Dremont, is like, yo, I'm a guy from Saginaw, Michigan, who grew up with nothing. And this problematic attitude that you're ascribing to me made me and my family into $300 million in career earnings. Like, $300 million?

Like, he's got him into the Hall of Fame. Like, he's going to be a Hall of Fame player. Like, somebody who's achieved, that it's kind of hard to explain to them, you know, what they're doing is wrong. And he's never going to change. And he's a maniac enough that it's like, you can't count on Dremont not being a dickhead.

Like, I think he's wrong in what he's saying. Like, no, Dremont, you're wrong. Like, you need to kind of change your approach and how you do some of this stuff. But I understand what he's saying. That being said, all of that psycho behavior that Dremont displays in terms of his approach to basketball, Andrew Wiggins has none of it, which is why we can't count on him, which is why we know he's not going to do anything. this year. And I think fans get it fucked up when they're like, yo, you know, a player, if he's

having some mental health issues, should be able to never come back to work in perpetuity. It's like, guys, I'm sorry. These are the highest level athletes on planet Earth. Some of it takes having a couple of screws lose and ignoring your mental health and getting back and being a killer. I'm sorry. Like, Andrew Wiggins just doesn't have this, man. He's just showing. own it. And like the idea that like if Wiggins could just get back to 2022, the Warriors will be viable again. Newsflash, y'all, it ain't going to happen. It's not happening. I'm sorry. Being a high-level athlete and being a perfectly balanced human being are not usually compatible states. I will say that. All of that said, I'm going to take Waz's general perspective on mental

health. I'm going to put it in a bucket and I'm going to, I'm going to lock it in a closet somewhere. I don't want to touch any of that. Yeah. Remember when Andrew Wiggins and Carl Anthony Towns were not only teammates, but the foundation for the Minnesota Timberwolves? Along with Zach Levine. What a fucking era. We need the oral history documentary on that.

Bro, they try. So like the beautiful thing about the baby Timberwolves was like, yo, they were like, you know what? We did the kid gloves coddling towns and all of these guys and, you know, We coddled them. Like, all right. Fuck it. We're done with that.

We're bringing in Tibido, who is the hardest ass in the history of asses. Tibado's like, yo, I got to get Jimmy Butler in here, who was another hard ass famously. And we're going to toughen these guys up. They tried the tough love thing. It didn't work. It didn't work so well. But look out for our new book coming out this summer, next summer. It's the history of asses.

Wow. Wise has the forward. From hard to soft. Yeah. From hard to soft. All types. Respect all asses is what we say. Anything else, Rob?

Moses Moody. I still have not given up on my Moses Moody stock. Or should you? The kind of guy who can have a 10 to 12 year career being a high level role player type, for whatever reason Steve Kerr decided he needed to yank him around on his minutes last year. I still believe in what Moses Moody

could do in this league, so I'll be paying attention to what he's doing this season. I still believe in Moses Moody. I definitely believe in Trace Jackson Davis and I hope that we don't get so much Draymond at the 5 or as you alluded to to Justin so much Kyle Anderson at the 5 that Trace falls out of the mix in some way.

Kyle Anderson is the perfect expert Steve Kerr played him way too many minutes like And he is the classic curb player. You can see it. Moses Moody somehow finds himself behind even more players this year. So that would be fun. Yeah.

Tough. All right. Number 16. Last one on today's docket. It's the New Orleans Pelicans, who if you haven't watched the clip of Tony Allen talking about the pelicans, I highly recommend it. I can't confirm or deny. That's what I wanted to ask. You were there on every day.

You actually can't confirm or deny. Without talking about Alvin Gentry specifically and what he did as a coach, because from what I remember, you weren't like completely nice to the guy in your writing about what was happening. I was nice to his writing.

I think he wasn't fond of me. I'll say that. And I think I'm one of the only people he wasn't fond of in the NBA media. Famously, like, one of the most genial people in the league. So you weren't that nice to him. Okay. Specifically because I think I was,

I didn't go along with just like, nice guy, Al, and just pat him on the bat. But that's all the thing. Got you. But when you were covering the pelicans, did they feel like a second-rate organization? Did it feel like, yo, we're not, they're not serious about being top flight in this league?

So I think Allen would have been the season after I last covered them, so I never ran into him. I think some of the things he was bringing up were criticisms that you heard from other people at the time. I would say that. I think the overlap with the Saints organization

was something that people would often point to. I think some of it he was playing up for effect because he knew that those were typical things that the Pelicans used to be dinged for. But like, you know, I think they had to accept the fact that that was the perception of them in order to change things to where they are now, where it's like they're kind of somewhere in the middle of, I would assume.

And they have changed a lot of those things. I think on an organizational level, the pelicans are a much more successful and I would say just like sorted outlet right like they have their shit together a little bit more yeah there are some issues there are some questions there are the lingering concerns over like whether Zion can go through full seasons

we should say coming off of the healthiest season of his career that that should be a great point of momentum and a great omen in terms of what he could potentially be I think they've done a lot to change their perception and some of that starts with winning 49 games last season for as much as we will I'm sure sort of poo-poo their chances here and have our caveats about what this team is,

they won games, they showed up, they did their job, and until the bottom fell out in terms of Zion getting hurt, we're really sticking it to a very competitive Lakers team and Zion was going toe to toe with some of the best players in the league. So I think there's a lot there to cling on to. I just don't know if it's going to be enough in a very, very competitive Western Conference. So this was the widest range.

I think of any team, or certainly among the widest ranges, for us. I had them at 20th overall. Was had them 12th. Rob had them 16th. And I think that is kind of like it suggests the possible outcomes for them. Because I think if Zion's right and healthy

and utilized... They're definitely in the top 12 in the NBA. He should be on the MVP ballot. If he's playing and playing well and utilized well, he should be on the MVP ballot. If not, if things don't go right, if Brandon Ingram isn't locked in given his contract situation, which I think might get messier of Tray Murphy

lands a rookie extension here coming up. if they don't land another center because they're still talking about Daniel Tice being like the guy for now. You mean A center? A center. Well, I mean, Eve's Missy.

I don't know if you've been clocking his program. Eve. Eve, Misi. Eve, Misi. Yes, there you go. How sure are you about that one? I'm pretty sure.

That's how they pronounce it in French. It's the French. Yeah, yeah, right. Creole. That's what they do. He's not, he's not Creole. Oh, well, Louisiana is what I was referring to. Oh, I said, I was like, isn't he from Belgium?

I was trying to put together the pieces there. Creole, Belgium, same thing. I think it could get pretty messy pretty quickly, which is what tends to happen with Pelican season. It's like, they have so much talent on paper, like, Zion, yada, yada, yada. And then it's just like, oh, something isn't quite right and things don't work out as well as they should.

I think they could get weird, but was like, this team is so talented. I almost think they cannot help but be solid. They have so many guys. Yeah. Like, first of all, the Trey Murphy and, you know, Herb Jones, Zion, like, I start with that as three guys, right? In terms of power forward, two wings. And I can now start phasing the CJ shit out because I have DeJante Murray.

Like, I can, like, spot minutes for him. I don't want to say spot minutes, but, like, he doesn't have to be as emphasized as he used to have to be. He should be a six man at the same. And to his credit, it sounds like he's open to doing that based on what he was saying on Media Day, if not exactly pushing for it himself. But if they can move in that direction, there's no question. That's what best suits the Pelicans. You know, like, they have the pieces of a team that's just like, we have our bona fide superstar. We have a secondary star in Ingram.

They're not very complimentary, but whatever. They're still hyper talented. And we're like so defensively versatile when our guys are all. trying, you know, like, this is a team that should be able to go out and get rack up wins this year. It's just the only drawback I have for them is just a horrible juju with the guy in Ingram who won. It's not just that your team doesn't want to give you an extension. They put you on a trade block and everybody passed. And, you know, some people might be like, well, his mental makeup is such that he's going to come in and try to prove to everybody that he's

one of the guys, but do we really want Brandon Inger doing that? No. Brandon Ingram trying to prove he's one of the guys, I think, would be a big problem for the Pelicans. You want him creating and being dynamic and being versatile, but not overstepping, especially on a team where you're bringing in DeJante Murray

and trying to find his place in all this. And that's where, offensively, it could get a little stilted and a little awkward at times. I think there's just going to be some triangulation they have to figure out between Ingram and Zion and how those guys play off each other. They're all pretty good playmakers, but none are great.

And maybe between them, they can kind of manage an offense and find some sort of workable relationship. We'll see. But defensively, if Dejante Murray can get into the spirit of what the Pelicans are doing, and I know that's a big if we've talked about a lot as far as guys who become stars and what their defensive roles tend to be after that point. But if he can do that, I think the Pelicans can be like the most disruptive perimeter defense in the league.

Like him, Herb Jones, like all of the steals that this team generates and the way they get out on the break, Dejante Murray could be an awesome part of that

if he cares to be. Yeah, it sounds all good on paper. I just, I think the Ingram part of it is just going to be so disruptive. They don't solve that. I think he ultimately needs to be traded,

and they probably have to accept a lower return that they're probably hoping for because as we're seeing guys like Carleton towns aren't going for what you expected two to three years ago, right? I think that,

part of it is complicated in a way that I don't see going well for them. On the flip side, I agree, like the perimeter players are really the core of this team outside of Zion. I'm very high on Trey Murphy and Herb Jones and what they could do, especially with Murray kind of being in the midst there. I think it all makes sense. But like, so we're doing the small ball thing. This is the essential question that we're going for. So Zion's going to be point center, which I agree works tremendously in bursts, but how much are we going to do a bit? A? How much is that going to

add too much load on Zion on both ends? How much is that going to affect ultimately their defense expecting him to bang with Biggs? Because they're talking about like, oh, he's not going to be playing with Biggs, but it's like, who is? Like, if you're going to play the three wings, Ingram, Murphy,

Jones, like, who's going to do it? Trey Murphy, I guess? Yeah. I mean, Murphy's really long, but he can get by. Even for a wing light. He's slight, but like has enough build to him that he could hold up in some, some, some matchups. Yeah.

It would have to be very selective. And I think honestly, with Zion, I'm with you, like the overall minutes load of that small ball look is something I'm worried about. But I kind of fully expect Daniel Tice to start. That seems like where this team is headed. Also, like, how many different versions of utilizing Zion have we gotten at this point?

Like, does this phase four or five? I feel like he's a point guard one minute. He's a big one minute. He's a point big one minute. He's like, he's playing the four or one minute. It's like I get you could do a lot of different things, but it seems like their identity is shifting year to year. And that is best represented in how like they're viewing Zion and just like jerking them around all this much. I'm just like, that's not what I want for a guy that I just want to be playing consistent high level NBA basketball in general, right?

Yeah. Well, Zion can, if Zion plays more consistent. guys, he'll be less jerked. Do you mean like, like, gets in the game more consistently? Or like plays performance more consistently? Yes, that's the reason why they haven't been able to find like this is what you do. Right. Like this is we, they haven't been able to define anything because he's missed so much time.

I think that's just what it is. Yeah, we lost him. Wait, why, we lost you there on your, on your Zion bid. So what I'm saying about Zion is the reason why. in year six or whatever the hell it is with Zion that he doesn't have a defined role. It's because he's missed so much time. If he's able to play more consistent time,

his role will be more defined. I think the issue of some of this stuff, and I agree with you, Wise. It's hard to know how much of your offense to invest in a guy when he can't be on the floor every night because the more important you make him,

the more painful it's going to be when he's out. That was a huge part of, I think, why the Pelicans were as good as they were last year, was he's on the floor more consistently. He's willing to do whatever is out. of him, at least, at least I think to a certain degree. I thought he was a pretty good sport about being jerked around and the way you're describing Justin.

And really, it's just like trying to problem solve. It's trying to make all the pieces of this lineup and this team fit together. And that has changed. Like the problems, the fundamental questions, are shifting. The Pelicans were not scrapping for center minutes last season. They had very traditional bigs. And if anything, I'm a little worried about the fact that part of the reason

the Pelicans won 49 games was because they were really solid on defense. And part of the reason they were really solid on defense was because they were a really good defensive rebounding team. And they lost every one of their good defensive rebounders. Valchunis, Cody's Deller, Larry Nance, Nassi Marshall. Those were the guys who were pulling down boards. Zion's really, really good and an awesome creator. Not a high volume rebounder per se or even like a really skilled boxout guy. And so if he's going to be your five, I mean, why couldn't Zion do literally anything he wants?

He can be any kind of player he wants to be. And I think the pelicans are going to need him to be, even now, a lot of different kinds of players to make these sorts of lineup stick. I think they are just counting on the fact that they could be electric offensively, right? They're just going to do the small ball thing for as long as they need to just hope that they could blow teams off the floor. And quite frankly, I think they can with the amount of firepower they had. The fact that CJ is coming off the bench for this team is kind of remarkable. The fact that Jordan Hawkins, who could shoot the lights out, doesn't really get steady minutes because they just can't find the minutes for him because they have so many good wings on that team. is something.

I just, I don't know. Zion looked like a top five player in that Lakers game in the play-in. Unfortunately, didn't finish it, and that's the Zion experience. Like, even we're talking about this breakthrough Zion year last year, it was half a season.

Like, it took him a while to get into shape, to buy in after he got, frankly, publicly shamed from the playing tournament, and then he turned it on. And so, I don't know, I want to like him. I want to like everything that they do. I think if he's right, again, I think he could be a top five MVP guy,

but just there's not enough here for me to feel like that's going to happen. And if that's not going to happen, I think it goes the other way. I think they actually maybe finished outside the plan. Anything else? You guys? Any other guys? Any other things? Shout out to Alfred Payton, a Louisiana guy back in the league.

Back in the league with the Pelicans played in the G League last year. I can't say they really need him. We've already talked about how perimeter heavy this team is. And they also still have Jose Alvarado, who's a menace. It seems like an Elvis. and tight. Completely. And just better

at being Alfred Payton than Elford Payton has historically been. I will say on the Alvarado front,

the Pelican signed him to a two-year $9 million extension total. That was interesting. I never seen that before.

A no-brainer for the Pelicans. I don't really see why Jose Alvarado didn't defer that. There's a player option involved, so maybe he can hit

the market a little sooner, but feels very team-friendly for a guy who is a cool part of their identity and the pressure defense that they like to play

with, I'm glad to see... One of my favorite players in the league. Brightly so. I'm glad to see them investing in him in a way and making him like a part of of this. Saw Alfred Payton in New Orleans once at a taco place. Seems cool. What was the order?

What was he rolling with? Is he an assada guy? I think he's on the way out. Yeah, as I was going in. How's the New Orleans taco scene? Not good. In fact, I remember I brought up this anecdote years ago on a show and I kind of ding the taco place for that. I forgot what the name is it now. And they DM mean, like, actually, we love

Alfred Payton or something like that. I was like, oh, my God. Wow. Yeah, let's get Spotify legal in here. Just to clarify all of the Taco Establishments in New Orleans, love Alfred Payton. They love Alfred Payton and they do great work. Yeah. A lot of other good food in New Orleans. I don't know if I'm going there for

Mexican food, unfortunately. All right. One of the wrap it there. Thank you to Jesse Lopez pitching in on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back next Monday with the next part of power rankings, we will see you then.