The Ringer NBA Show - Preseason NBA Power Rankings, Part 4

Episode Date: October 13, 2022

Justin, Rob, and Wos wrap up their preseason power rankings by discussing the teams ranked 7-1. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, my name is Kevin Clark. I'm the host of a new football podcast called Slow Newsday. I want to tell you about it. On Mondays, Lindsay Jones and I will recap the weekend in football that was, as well as look ahead to what's next. On Wednesday, the normal Slow Newsday, the thing you've been watching for years, current players, current coaches, current analysts talking about the football world. And on Friday, it's a wild card.

Could be some college football. Could be more pro stuff. It's a video podcast so you can watch it on Spotify or listen to it wherever you get your podcasts. Follow on Spotify. It's Slow Newsday. Power rankings. Part 4 is here. I am Justin Barrier, joining me Big Was. And we've got bearded Rob Mahoney on deck here. He is ready. I just wanted to follow Tibbs's lead, you know? I feel like he's really coming in a little patchy, a little weird. And that's the energy I'm hoping to carry into this season with my beard, you know? Sure. So we've gone through three episodes now. We're at the final stage, the top 17s in the NBA.

was so far on this journey. Have you appreciated the feedback you've received the well-founded critiques of our rankings and our criticisms along the way from our fans? Yeah, honestly, I was expecting a little bit more pushback. The only people were complaining or the people who always complain

with your Raptors fans. So I think we've done a pretty good job of establishing what the, you know, assumed hierarchy of the league is this year. Sure. We made a lot of friends in the Great White North. And over these, over this last week in particular, but really we talk about Scotty Barnes

every week. So if you guys want to do like a quick five on him off the top, let's do it. Well, yeah, that's another thing. Oh my God. It was like three days of Scotty Barnes is going to be as good as Kauai Leonard, if not better, because at his age, Kauai was not as good as Scottie Barnes because that's how NBA development works. Any regrets, Rob, so far.

any because we did these rankings what three weeks ago now now that we've seen some things that we probably can't forget including ben simmons is a seen what you guys watch preseason some yeah i try to not indulge in preseason to save myself for the regular season but i watched enough i watched the clip of ben simmons shooting a jumper in a playground and missing so i can't say i'm feeling great about the nets rob anything on your end i think the only regrets I have or just like I might look at this differently or vote a little differently or rank a little differently are all going to be in this top section pretty much. And that starts right off the top of like perfect segue by you, Justin, into our into the first team on our list

if you want to walk us into it. Sure. Well, actually that was your perfect segue. So, so model. Do you want to go through, Rob, since you've already set us up here, the rules for this exercise, as I do typically at the top of every podcast. Look, anytime you want me to do your job, I'm happy to do it. You don't have to ask me twice. So we're ranking all 30 teams from 30 to 1. We've covered the vast majority of them already. We're going to pick up with number 7 this week. And basically the way we composited these rankings are we all voted independently, ranking 1 to 30.

We mash those together. Isaiah Blakely, our producer, broke any ties. And that brings us to our number 7 team in our preseason power rankings. The Phoenix Suns, yours and mine, and no longer Robert Sarvers, as of maybe a month or two. from now. It was beautiful. Thank you. Congratulations. I love it. All right. Yeah, let's start with the suns here. Number seven. Let's talk about them broadly because they have a lot going on in addition to Sarvers,

just what, decade plus to almost two decades of indiscretions and workplace, toxic environments. They also have a lot of stuff to figure out just on a team level. How are you feeling about them broadly going into the seasoner? Are you an optimist that they can overcome the many, many, many things? on their plate right now or are you a bit more pessimistic? I'm pessimistic because again, I was, I was wrong about the Aitin thing and the idea that they could just ignore the guy until they absolutely had to pay him. That's turned into a bit of a cluster fuck.

And, you know, their leader, their second best player is Chris Paul, whose body is, you know, it can't be relied upon to take them through four rounds of the playoffs. I think they're going to be a dope regular season team again. I just don't think they're in the top tier of team, especially when you consider what we watched them doing the playoffs last year. Where, yeah, Chris Paul was hurt. Jay Crowder fell on the guy's leg, and he had trouble accelerating after that.

But I think you, Chris Paul's age, I saw the other day on Twitter that DeAndre Aiton and Monty Williams haven't spoken in a year. I don't know how true that is. But like, you know, the idea being that their relationship is very frosty still, even after the deal. Yeah. And he's not some nothing throwaway part of their team.

He's integral to what they want to do. So if everything isn't right, I think it's a lot of obstacles to overcome for this team. Yeah, I think Aiton and Mani hadn't talked since they had that clash publicly in game seven, which then led to Aitin signing the offer sheet with Indiana and then coming back and holding a couple moreau's press conferences. I think they've since talked. But obviously it's not good there. Rob, of these things we're talking about Paul Aiton, Crowder, on the team level specifically, Chris, like, which one is most concerning to you? I mean, the Chris Paul one is the biggest, just because the reality is if they make a deep playoff run, he's going to be 38 years old by the

end of it. Like that, that seems at least somewhat worrisome, given his injury history. But the reality is, it's like all of this stuff in aggregate, right? Like, if it were just CP, or if it were just Jay Crowder wanting out, or if it were just DeAndre Aden being frosty, that's probably manageable. But all those things stacked on top of each other, that's really starting to feel like a lot, the cumulative effect of that. Do we think that Paul is going to be significantly a different player this season was because on the one hand, he did look shakier than probably we've ever seen before last postseason. Maybe that was just Jose Alvarado getting into his shorts a little bit more than he was comfortable with. Maybe that was this mysterious COVID breakout that we aren't

really sure what happened there toward the end of the Maverick series. Maybe he was hurt again. He was hurt toward the end of last regular season. But as Rob mentions, like, he's going to be 38. He's a small point guard at some point that's going to catch up to him. Like, Should he be playing maybe fewer games? Should he be on the Kauai rest management schedule or something in order to fix this? No, I think he's in the regular season where game plan and scheme can be enough combined with the talent level. Like, they're going to be good at what they're trying to do in the regular season. And Chris Paul has become really expert at knowing when and where to exert himself.

And so it's not like he's died. dominating possessions the way he used to back when he was a New Orleans. Were they still a Hornets? They were a Hornet. Yeah, back when he was still a New Orleans Hornet. He's not that guy anymore. He allows Booker and others to man the ship, if you will. So I think it'll be fine in the regular season.

They'll find games to actually just straight up not play him and rest him. I just think in the crucible in the postseason where you're complete. completely scouted and the best defenders, the most tenacious people in the NBA are going after you at 38 years old, night after night. That's when I think we'll see some problems for him. But in the regular season, he's kind of proven he knows how to shift gears. Yeah, it's one of those things where the exact thing we've been praising him for over the last two years in particular is now what feels like a bit of a problem, which is this guy was

already so good as you laid out was at modulating, at taking it easy, at knowing how to gear shift in that particular way. It's like you expect him to do that more effectively now at 38. Like I don't know how much more effectively he can do that considering he's already starting from 65 games played last season. It's playing 33 minutes a night last season, which yeah, you could go down into like the high 20s if you really want to do that. I think the sons will be a good enough regular season team that they can probably sustain something like that if they want to. but then you risk trying to ram him up too aggressively in the playoffs. And if he needs to play 38, is that going to wear on his body in a different way because

it's not used to it? There's no good answers with players that are of this age and especially at that size. And I think the fact that CP has already maximized everything he has at his height makes it hard to imagine him like really sustaining even what he's been in the last two years. Yeah. And I think one of the things he actually bristled against after that one year in Oklahoma was that San Presti wanted to put him on more. of a Kauai program in order to save him.

And I remember him specifically saying he did not want to do that. And so I can't see him actively opting out of games in the same way Kauai does. But I guess he could just be more deferential than he is, but he already is quite deferential. I guess the optimist view on this is that he kind of already started to hand the reins over to the younger generation at the very least during the regular season. And I think the core of Aitin Bridges Booker and now Cam Johnson kind of acquitted them. last season when he was her when he was out they all looked great booker looked like an all NBA player he got on the only NBA team I think in large part because of how we play during

that stretch I guess my question is one can they translate it to the postseason which is when it will matter at this point they seem to be a team that we have to wait until the postseason really know what their deal is and to like how much more untapped potential do some of these guys have because they are getting into the 25 26 range and typically I think in years past, I would be like, that's kind of the age where you kind of know what you are. But in today's NBA, I feel like guys just like add things every summer. And so I wouldn't be surprised to see McHale Bridges start taking like more confident step back off the dribble type of three-pointers or seeing Aiton, if the team will allow it, maybe like explore the wonders of everything that he

could do. To me, Aiton's the only guy that has room to become dramatically better than what he's shown. I don't think you know, as much as I love McKell Bridges, full core fits alum, by the way. As much as I love McHale Bridges, I think the things that he can add

will be on the margins. It would be like being more quick with the trigger on catch and shoots, being a guy who could come off the screens who can occupy the attention of the defense that way, being, you know, just up his volume of three-point shots. If

anything. But again, that's not dramatically different from what he does. Like the idea that eight, it might become a guy who consistently draws a double team, who's, you know, getting to the free throw line, who is, you know, even better of a defender than he's even showed at times. He's the guy that I point to that has a pathway,

not necessarily that he's going to take it, but has a pathway to getting way better than what he's shown already. And conveniently, I mean, wouldn't that be a hell of an olive branch to give him at this point in the game of, we're going to invest in you in this very different way, we're going to give you maybe a taste of what you were hoping to find in Indiana or with another team in terms of usage and opportunity?

And that just happens to be the most important thing for the suns at this juncture, because Justin, you outlined it like the young core of this team, it's very different if you're talking about Booker and Bridges and Johnson without Aiton. versus when you think about him as a centerpiece of that group. Like that is a radical transformation. So if you can't get Aitin back on board fully in terms of being a member of this franchise

for the next, you know, five or six years at least, they have to take some hard looks at kind of what the next stage of this team is going to be, especially with CP, you know, moving in the direction that he's going to. Yeah. Well, Moni let him do that. I guess now that they're talking, maybe they can have that conversation about allowing him to maybe take like a jumper or two. I think another concern I have with this team is also the depth behind all of those guys.

And I keep hearkening back to the ESPN story from late last season, which one of the weirdest ones in recent memory, our friend Kevin Arvitz wrote about how the sons basically are just ambivalent toward the draft. And it works until it doesn't because they had so much success, I guess, relatively with some of these picks. And now that they have this young core assembled, on the other hand, the bench, if they're, get rid of Crowder, I don't think has one surefire reserve player that you can count on. And that's tough because as we know, like as we just discussed, Paul might not be there for every game. If you lose one of these other guys, obviously it's going to be thinned out. But like even a guy like Dario Sarge, who I'm excited to see come back, hasn't played since the 2021 finals campaign is pretty much month to month at this point, if not year to year. And who else is left? He got Josh Okie on his second, like, go-around. Bismack Bianbo, who was even in the league before they picked him up midseason last year.

It's just, it's looking really thin really quickly. And I don't want to be the guy who's like, will the Bulls get good Bill Weddington minutes? Like, I realize they have something here. But I think it's a concern. I think it's something that could limit them in the regular season when last year they were such a good regular season team. well the concern is the j crowder spot in particular right like if they can't get a good reliable bench player back for him that's a huge problem because then all of a sudden you're throwing dari osarich into the fire for like 35 playoff minutes and again i'm with you love

dario sarich very excited to see him back but that's a lot that's a lot under these circumstances and the drafting is weird because this is where my instincts as a writer and a reporter are conflicting with common sense which is don't go on the record with media and tell them you don't give a shit about the draft. That's just kind of a weird move. But also do. I guess I want you to say those things. That's how you feel.

It has put them in this weird spot, though. And I will say in defense of this bench, those are fairly reliable players. There's just no guide that you would want as like your sixth man definitively. This is the easy guy we plug in when one of our starting lineup gets heard. And some of that is just like now Cam Johnson is thrust into being a starter, basically, I mean, by convenience, by circumstance, maybe Tori Craig will end up being in that spot

and Cam Johnson comes off the bench, whatever you want to do. There's just like one, too few guys here. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. I don't think the bench matters. I think the bench matters when you're the Knicks, right? When you are barely competent at the top, your bench will matter because if you completely fall off a cliff from, you know, your best players being a unit that kind of

competes and is kind of better than the Orlando Magic types, yeah, you got a problem when your bench is horrible. When you're going to be as dominant as their starting unit is going to be particularly in the regular season, I can't really get too worked up about the bench. I'm like, who are these great, dominant backup bigs that are just going to smoke bin-smacked Beyondbo? Like, I just don't, I don't see it, right?

And so I'm not, I can't, I think their starting unit is going to be a dominant one. Yeah. When they're locked in, like they're going to blow teams away with that unit. And so I can't get worked up on their bench. I would be more confident if they had a sixth and seventh guy. Like, it's fine if your 10th guy is Bismack Bianbo. But like, who is the guy who's going to actually spell anyone on this team in a high profile playoff series? That's my question.

Oh, yeah. That's the, that's the distant threshold, right? because I'm with Waz in the interim, which is to set the baseline for all this hand-wringing we're doing, this was a 64-win team that was top three on both sides of the ball. They're going to be really good.

Like, even if they take a pretty significant step back, they're going to be pretty good. Yeah, they're going to be a 54-win team, right? Like, they're going to be damn good, yeah. Yeah, I think the fear, and maybe it's something more for the distant future, is that by not caring as much about the stuff on the fringes, on the margins,

that stuff eventually builds up over time. And I think they're on the precipice of it becoming a problem. Because, yes, the starting five still looks pretty bulletproof. But we don't have anything after that. And if we don't have the actual pathways to improve those six, seventh, eighth, a spots, I don't see it becoming solved anytime soon. Like maybe they turn J. Crowder into another piece. But even the J. Crowder situation, to me, signals a kind of institutional problem

where I don't know why they sent him home to begin with and presumably just tanked his trade value. And two, you're now trying to trade J. Crowder for someone who is basically like J. Crowder because you need that spot again. And I don't see that happening. And so where's the solution here? Maybe Chris Paul calls up his friend,

is Jared Jack like still playing in the league? No. But I think it's the type of thing that won't really fell them, but it will kind of matter eventually, if not this season down there. Well, to clarify the Jay Crowder situation a bit, I think the reason they send him home is because there was reports that he wanted to be traded. And I think Jay Crowder basically straight up tweeted, I ain't showing up for camp. So maybe you rescind his invite. You know, that's what I'm saying. But they need them. Shouldn't someone be like doing player like management and reaching out

to him and being like, hey, you just like do your job? It's one of those things. We're, and we're going to talk about J. Mark Green, who was upset about not getting a deal situated before camp, where he might have an argument. And I think he does have a legitimate argument for being like, you guys should take care of me. I've, you know, I helped start this thing. We've got something special.

I should be compensated for that. What the hell does Jay Crowder think he's owed by anybody for, like, why? Why does he think he needs to get paid early? by the Phoenix Suns and because they're not willing to, he's like, well, you guys don't love me enough. So it's like, bro, get out of here. Show up to work. Get your ass on the court.

Play your 20 minutes. Stop complaining, bro. Like, I think he's going to come back and he's going to have to play. Because, like, various said they need him. I don't even understand why they even indulge this cat. Like, yeah, we're trying to find people for Jay Crows. Like, Jay Crowder, like, nobody cares with you. you want. You're Jay Crowder.

Can I play devil's advocate? Well, one, I seem like some of this was spurred by Cam Johnson being elevated into the starting lineup. And I assume that has something to do with him being on the verge of an extension before we get to the opening night. And so maybe that's part of it. Two, it seems like half of

the league could use Jay Crowder. Like just trying to find Jay Crowder landing spots, like I could probably plug him into most teams in the NBA. And so if I know that as Jay Crowder or more specifically as his agent, like I would be telling Jay Crowder that as well, that you are valuable enough to do this.

This is where it gets kind of funny, though, because if you look at the teams that have been rumored as Jay Crowder destination, so you got teams like the heat, the Celtics, the Bucks, the Grizzlies, the Mavs, the Hawks. Half of those teams are teams Jay Crowder's already played on. And the situations were as such that, like,

I'm going back through my notebook, like, didn't somebody tell me that, like, half the players on this team were mad at Jay Crowder? Like, weren't situations when he left Team X weird and kind of icy? Like, weren't their shots fired after the fact? And look, maybe all is forgiven when it's time to compete for a championship and you need a combo forward to come off the bench. Maybe it's that simple.

But Jay Crowder is a, he is a complicated personality to throw into a locker room sometimes. And maybe the best case scenarios for him are the teams he has not already played on and built up some baggage with. Jay Crowder has the single highest opinion of himself of any, on the planet, meaning there's nobody in the world who has a higher opinion of Jay Crowder than Jay Crowder does of himself. And I think that's what Rob is getting at. Like this guy really thinks he's headed to, I was about to say Canton. Now that is Springfield. Listen, Jay Crowder is not the marrying type, you know. He's the fling. You want one season,

two seasons, and you don't lock it down with him. All right. Let's now turn to another team with immaculate vibes heading into this season. This is number six, the Boston Celtics. Rob, where do you want to start here? I guess with the elephant in the room, which is a team that just went to the NBA finals is going to have a different first time inexperienced head coach. And like, I know we've been talking about every other aspect of the MAO doka story and rightly so. Like those are first and foremost. But this is a pretty big basketball story in the. the background on top of it. Yeah. So Joe Missoula was what, three or four on that bench. He is now going to be the head coach of the Boston Celtics. Well, Hardy, the guy who I think would have been presumed to take over that job, went and took over in Utah. And so I guess was the question becomes like how much did Imi Adoka kind of make sense of this team? He got a lot of credit for just drawing a hard line and holding everyone a

accountable and it worked out last season, but now we'll see them under the stewardship of somebody else. Do you think like that will have much of an effect on the bottom line here? Yeah, I think his coaching mattered. One, he instilled or installed the heavy switching scheme that they ended up mastering towards the middle of the year and carried them into the playoffs. He came up with the scheme or whoever on his staff, either him or somebody on his staff. that's another thing that's weird about coaching. We don't know what every assistant is doing on every single team,

but whatever. His staff came up with Rob Williams as like sort of a rover by the rim and just planting that guy there and him being behind Tatum and Brown and all of the switching that they were doing, Marcus Smart. Like they turned into one of the best defensive units I've literally ever seen before under that guy's tutelage. And I think he just made the important tweaks. I think establishing a hierarchy on offense was important where, you know,

Marcus Smart thinks he's freaking Michael Jordan. And it was just like, yo, how about, yeah, we'll call you the point guard. And it's your job to actually pass the ball and not be a shoot first, whatever the hell position you think you play. He did a good job of doing what coaches do. And, you know, now you're not. he's effectively fired, right? He's gone.

And it happened pretty suddenly. And now Joe Missoula, who leapfrog Damon Stademeyer, by the way, because he was not the first assistant. Like, it was Stademeyer who would have been the natural next guy up. And they put Joe Missoula in position, which means they saw something in the guy.

And so we'll see what he got. Joe Missoula, by the way, upset alert when I finally seen what the guy looked like. I was expecting like a feel of track suit and gold chain. And I was like, oh, snap. That's not what I thought Joe Missoula was going to look like. But shout to him.

And we'll see if he's up to the task, man. But Emeo Doka, he made a difference on his team last year. Yeah, Mazula, former mountaineer. I remember when he was playing in like the Biggie's tournament. It wasn't that long ago. He's definitely much younger. Somebody pointed out to me that he was on the pit snuggle.

Mike Gantsey, whatever team. I did not remember him for whatever reason. Joe Alexander, of when he was just a white guy who dunked. And everyone's like, let's draft him eighth. Yeah, I guess the question is, how much do we believe that there was an Adoka effect versus that this team was just very talented in that they were always going to figure it out? Or do we feel like maybe Adoka is still some sort of structure in place? that they can now take from that and just carry it forward and just be the team that they were going to be.

Yeah, the latter seems more realistic to me. I think we have enough evidence of this Celtics core to know that they weren't just going to figure it out on their own. They kept bumping up against the same walls over and over and over. And I do think Imao Doka helped them navigate those. Now, if that's already kind of asked and answered and they've kind of gotten past those problems, then maybe it is easier to install a first-time head coach and kind of roll through doing more or less the same thing. you are doing. Of course, with some tweaks along the way. But I don't know, that seems like assuming a lot for this team. This is a team that just seems to consistently find its way into

difficult spots and conversations, just in terms of like chemistry, locker room type stuff. Not to mention, it's just kind of a complicated and weird basketball roster when you have this many like-sized players and you're trying to make everything work and you're trying to maintain that pecking order that you've established. That's a lot. That's a lot to expect of a team in this position. Again, with a change this late in the game, coming into the year, we're going to see if they have it in them. I mean, it's a huge test for what is clearly one of the best and most talented teams in the league, but they still have a lot to prove.

And I mentioned they figured out something on defense last year that propelled them to damn their historic levels. Their offenses will fail them ultimately in the finals, in the playoffs generally. They just seem to be a mess. And that's not the kind of thing where you roll the balls out. And yeah, Tatum and Brown and smarter just going to figure out how to be effective in the half court office. Like, that's not a given. And so somebody's going to have to coach them up. Like, they're going to need to have answers.

And, you know, they made additions in the offseason of talented guys, right? I would say that is a player who I've liked since his rookie year, but nobody's called. calling him some playmaker table setting kind of guy. He's always been a sort of score first attack mentality kind of player. Not that they don't need that, but what they've been lacking is building some continuity based offense, get actions going that spring these guys in ways that isn't just dribble, dribble, dribble at the top of the key, be better than the guy in front of you. Well, dribbling is what they need the most help with last, postseason.

That would be nice. If Rodden can do that, that'd be cool. He can do that. But again, I will say the Milwaukee thing became complicated because the guy really thought he should be getting more shots. He thought he should be a bigger part of what they were doing in Milwaukee. And that's why they were like, yeah, it's kind of fine if we let him walk and not ruin what we got going on here chemistry-wise.

So I think they still got to figure stuff out. that's going to ultimately decide their destiny is what they do in half-court offense and how good, like, can Tatum take another step as a playmaker? Can Brown take, you know, just pass more? You know, like, can they figure out how to have more cohesion in the half-court against the best teams in the league? And so, you know, I hope Joe Missoula is some kind of, you know, wizard when it comes to that. well that's where you're hoping that yes i totally agree brogden is kind of more of a score first point guard but like maybe he can mellow you out just enough that you can run some stuff

in between having him and derrick white for a full season those are two guys with with caveats and asterisks but i think ideally they offset each other right where it's brogden's going to miss probably x number of games he has a pretty extensive injury history at this point but you have derrick white to kind of step in and fill some of that void when he's out and likewise when Derek White's offense just isn't there, which happens with some regularity. Malcolm Brogden can be a stabilizing force for you in those situations. And so like between those two guys, you have a combination of guards who can make an impact on a team that's already pretty rounded out in terms of its starting lineup.

And you just kind of need one more body in some of these games. And I think between those two guys, they should be able to provide it. Yeah. Brogden has, I guess, what we can call Miles Turner syndrome, where he probably wants to stretch out, but he's probably best suited for a role like the one he had with the bucks where he could just shoot 43% from three and just organize things

and just be like the fourth guy there to make everything work. And he's probably in the perfect role specifically for like you were saying, Rob, just he's not going to be available as often as he probably needs to be to be a critical, like essential player on this team. And so maybe there's like a marriage of convenience here

that would work for them. I guess the question is, is, is Brogden the guy to make sense of this team? Or, and I keep thinking about, like, the whole KD chase. And I guess, like, that was always kind of a fallacy. It was always a carrot that the Nets were going to pull away from them. But at the end of the day, I felt like KD or someone like him just makes sense of things and kind of, like, papers over any sort of, like, minor issues that a team would have.

Whereas now we're saying they need to do the hard work of making everything work. and now Tatum has to be a little bit better. Now Brown has to be a little bit better despite being involved in trade rumors for this year and probably every year previously. And so I'm not sure. I don't know. Does that make sense?

Makes sense to me. It's going to take creativity to make this into the kind of offense that gives people consistent problems. Because like what does it mean to give a defense problem? I think the first thing, I remember I heard Hugh B. Brown say this. He was like, why do we run pick and roll?

Because it makes the defense think. They have to make a decision. They have to commit to something. They have to be like, wait a second. How do I cover this? Do I drop? Do I hedge? Do I do this?

You want to keep defenses guessing. A lot of times there's so one note. Everybody kind of understands what they're going to do. So a defense knows where and when to load up on things. They know who to guard your guys with. Like, they don't want to. have a spontaneous read and react instinctual half-court offense and that's something that they need to get at defending because let's face it they barely beat the nets i get it was a sweep it was like

three points every single game the the freaking bucks gave them every single thing they can handle literally took these guys to seven games without their second best player the heat series wasn't walk in the park. And as good as they looked at moments against Golden State, those, the last basically two games were, you know, they got washed up.

They got beat up. And so, you know, this isn't some juggernaut who we're nitpicking at. Like, they got problems that were made obvious during the postseason last year. And, you know, let's see if they address them. Have you guys seen that Fred Armisen clip from,

I think it was Parks and Rec, where he's like a dictator or something? thing and everything he says, like, you go to jail. It's like you undercook the fish. You go to jail. That's kind of how I feel like the KD situation was like, oh, you can't dribble. Well, you have KD. Like, oh, you don't have Robert Williams there to anchor the defense.

Well, you have KD. They no longer have that magic eraser. And so, yeah, there are a lot of things that probably need actual answers to, including, I don't know if you want to, Rob, if you wanted to jump in here. But like, I think Robert Williams is a pretty big one. Well, I think that's kind of the tradeoff. for the whole KD situation and conversation, right? It's not necessarily that they would have had to include

Rob Williams in that deal, but they would have had to include enough of their fundamental core that you're giving up that historic defense. Like, you're compromising it in a pretty fundamental way. Even if it's just Jalen Brown and assorted guys, that's changing the texture of your team. Kevin Durant is, for all of his strengths as a player, is not flying around in quite the same way.

And I think what they miss with Rob Williams is kind of the flip side of what you were talking about was. Like, if the point of running a pick and roll, role is to make defenses think. The point of Rob Williams on defense is to make offenses. Yeah. Right. Like you want them thinking in the back of their head.

Like, I don't know where this guy is. Is he going to swoop in and crowd me? Is he going to block my shot? Is he going to challenge this at the last second? Because he has that kind of explosion. And you're losing that not only with the time he's out, but when he comes back, if he's not fully himself. And I think, I think it's still the right bet to bank on him coming back and trying to be

the team you were ultimately in terms of form. in terms of how you played. I think that's still the right choice in the situation. But look, they're going to have to find ways to make do because right now their front court. I mean, there's options,

you know? You can throw Grant Williams in there. Al Horford's obviously going to play a lot of five this year and that's putting a lot of pressure on him. I guess Luke Cornett is going to play center a good amount for this team who's just coming back. Yeah, Blake Griffin's back. Yeah, Blake Griffin.

We got Noah Vonle making the roster. I'm curious to see if he can stick. That's, you know, blogger favorite Noah Vonley. Oh, my goodness. You know, it's really, every training camp team. He's the freaking Anthony Randolph of this generation. But also the anti- Anthony Randolph, right? Like he's the conservative stay in your role, Anthony Randolph.

Yeah. I mean, it's crazy how Robert Williams like pretty much hobbled through the entire postseason and yet managed to impact every single game he played in, including the finals. And so I don't know, man, even when they get him back, it's supposed to be eight to 12 weeks, was take it takes us to a round Thanksgiving. I would imagine it's probably going to be longer than that, considering this is the second surgery on the same knee in six months. And even if you get him, let's say, right before the postseason,

like how much is he going to be able to play? And then at that point, like, what does your defense look like? Do you have to just completely build it like differently? Do you have to focus more on, you have to change it to account for some of the more offensive players that you're bringing off the bench from the front court? Because I think they had hoped that. that they could get a little bit of juice in the front court with Gallinari playing maybe sort of like a stretch five.

But now like is that Blake Griffin, who we last saw trying to take charges because he couldn't play basketball anymore? It's bleak. There's also some low-hanging fruit here, which is the Celtics made it a point. And I think Rob Williams made it a point of saying during the playoffs that it's okay that I'm playing on this injured knee because it can't get worse. Guys, it got worse. I don't want to hear this.

Yes. Yes. Please. That's just factually not true. That's not a thing that you can't get more injured because you're already injured. That's not, you don't wear some like weird. You know how you get a ticket, you leave your ticket in the window so that the cop's like, all right, I already gave him a ticket.

That's not how injuries work. The rest of your body isn't like, oh, no, his knees already messed up. Like, he won't have an ankle or a calf or a hammy or a hip. Like, no, that's not going to happen because his knees messed up. He's good. We already injured him. Like, they need to stop saying that dumb shit. And yet, after everything that we've said, they still have the Celtics, the best

finals odds of any team. I'm really confused by that. I guess they're just assuming that Tatum is going to take a leap into MVP candidacy if he already wasn't there and that there's just so much collective talent here that they'll just blow pass whatever expectations already exist for them. but I don't know. I can see them figuring things up by the playoffs yet again, but even like a top two Eastern Conference seed seems tough for this team.

Finals probability as being like the most likely team to make the finals. That seems like a lot. That's a bit much for me because as you can tell from our rankings, there's definitively one team in the East that we think is more likely to make the finals. And there's another team that's at least has a good chance or maybe maybe slightly better given everything that's happened over the last couple weeks with Boston. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what Vegas is doing with those finals odds.

Maybe Boston people, you know, maybe Sully's, they're just way more confident about this team than we are. And it's just banging that futures pick. But I don't understand how that could be the case. There is a lot of firepower on this team. Like if they could put it together, Brown always manages to add something to his game. I would hope that he comes in being able to maybe like operate on the perimeter

a little bit more with ball in his hands. So we'll see. I mean, all of these guys are still young. Marcus Smart was the defensive player the year last year for some reason, but he still probably will be good. But speaking of MVP conversation with Jason Tatum, let's turn to our next team, the Philadelphia 76ers, who might very well have the MVP of the league next year,

if not the MVP favorite going into next season. That is the Philadelphia 76ers who, I wonder how much this is just Bill or if this is consensus, but there's some some, some finals buzz a brewing with the Sixers. I think the optimism is back here. Was, are you writing the hype train for the Sixers? Do you believe in our friend James Harden and Darry more yet again?

I'll give Darry this. Once he got to the team, he said about just making it a regular team, i.e. wing players who defend and can make an open jump shot, you know, a backup point guard, a backup center has been, you know, alluded to them, but like just a real team, complimentary pieces, not just that the pieces are complimentary, but they're complimentary to the skill set

that his best players possess. And so I think this is the best version of the Sixers since Darrell got there. And, you know, I like Montrez as a backup big. Obviously, I love PJ Tucker. I believe in what he adds to any team who has postseason aspirations and melting and house. And, like, they're shooting. There's wing depth.

There's, you know, there's a guy in Maxi who can, it's conceivable that is going to be much better than what he's already shown because he's such a young guy. And he's shown a decent amount. Like, this is a real team. you know, and I understand why there's finals buzz, but I'm not buying it. Like James Harden at 35 or whatever the hell he is now, he has to actually show and prove that when the going gets tough against real competition in the postseason

that he's going to deliver for his team in ways that we've, quite frankly, we've just never seen this dude do-do. When the chips were down, when they needed stuff. you know, say like, and I know this is unfair comparison. Steph Curry in the finals last year, you know, his team is down to one and is looking bleak and he just steps up. I've never seen James Harder do anything even close to that for his team. And maybe Joelle is good enough that it doesn't matter and he finally stays healthy enough

and he doesn't suffer some freak, you know, hang nail injury that keeps him out. But I can't buy the sixes if James Hardin is going to be an integral part of your point. old season? Come on. Those off season ab photos. Yeah, this is the classic

George Bush fool me once, shame more, fool me one, can't fool me again. Get out of here. I think what keeps us out of that territory a little bit

is just that he's going to be asked to do something pretty different than he has previously. Right? Like the line for James Hardin has noticeably shifted

from you need to be the best player, you need to be the be all and all of our offense to, I'm not even sure he needs to be great. he just needs to give them the things that the other guys on the team can't,

which is advanced playmaking, a little bit of shock creation, and be more of a stabilizer so that Tyrese and Maxie and Tobias Harris and those guys can ebb and flow a little bit more. Like, can he do those things? I think that's within his power to do. And then, as you mentioned,

was like the rest of the roster has been improved enough, maybe that's enough to get you to the finals. Maybe that's enough to make you a contender in a more serious way. Because even if your backup center is, you know, Mantras Harrell, who may or may not be able to play in the playoffs or PJ Tucker who's,

I don't know, going on 40 years old and playing out of position, that's still the best backup center rotation they've ever had. And there's versions of that all throughout this roster, like the best group of wings, the best backup centers. Like this feels like a pretty, a pretty fully fledged team in a way that most Joel and Bede teams just have not.

Yeah, they almost hardened proof the roster in a lot of ways. So that if he's only just like an excellent playmaker, which he was to the most, like to a large degree last season. I think like this team still works. Because you have all of the shooting. You have all of these wing defenders.

And like worst case scenario, you just roll back the rockets from a couple of years ago. You stick PJ Tucker in a second unit with him as small ball five. And you basically just let Harden be hardened like used to be. It's such a weird kind of tradeoff though, because they almost solved all of their minor concerns here where it's like, oh, well, we don't have to trot out DeAndre Jordan, some of these retreads at at backup center anymore when Embed is out or in the playoffs.

Like we don't need a wing stopper because we got PJ Tucker who can also play at the five if we need them to. We have all of this wing depth with most teams actually struggle with. And the Sixers did last year, but now they have all these guys who are credible defenders. You know, to worry about Fibble being on the court who at this point can't really play offense. So like, and even like a Daniel House can hit a credible shot. And so they solved all of these, like, minor concerns.

The problem is they have all of these much bigger ones, such as can Hardin still be something beyond what we're talking about? Can he be great? Can Doc Rivers coach a team like this to the promised land? Can Embed stay healthy? And so I've never seen a team that's like so pulled in different extremes. I think I'm probably more bullish on a lot of those big questions is maybe where some of the disconnect is here.

like it was if we want to have the imbeed conversation i think now it's probably a good time to happen in terms of how you're feeling about him as a playoff performer because to me it feels like when he's healthy and that's a that's a big if he's been pretty dominant and if he can stay that way maybe that's enough like maybe but you know if he can not get sick at the wrong time if he can not have the wrong minor injury at the wrong time or break his face at the wrong time he seems like he's the kind of player who could take you three or four rounds into the playoffs. I've been converted to the Joel has had all the excuses in the world made for him can't. Like at a certain point bro, you got to do it. We get it. You're cute on social media.

You give the media a great quote in post game and everybody loves you. You're charming. We get it. But you're no longer this cute, cuddly young player. You are bona fide vet. people calling you an MVP, yeah, you got to put the team on your back now. Like, that's just what it is. And, you know, I'm not quite Ben Simmons, who's just like, but what about Toronto? You know, like, I'm not that.

I'm not that point on Joe, but I do think, like, the guy has had so many excuses made for why these people, his teams have come up short. And it's kind of tough for him to show and prove at this point because he's done a lot of, yapping and not a lot of getting it done when it matters the most. Not to be like talk radio like, do it in the playoffs.

But yeah. Do it in the playoffs. Yes, do it in the playoffs. What more does Embed need to do individually? I guess it would be my question. To me, score efficiently at volume. That's number one. It can't like, some people is just like, all right, you know,

we can't expect them to be individually the source of efficient. offense that's like reserved for the best players in the league but guess what that's what people call joel and bid so if you are one of the best players in the league you got to score efficiently at scale in the postseason and do what you're meant to do on defense that's to me that's the that's the that's the bar uh for joel and b be a complete dominant defensive play of the year type of player on one end and an efficient high volume score on the other and i think he's shown the capacity to do those things, right? When he's right in the playoffs.

And if they don't get absolutely slaughtered in the non-imbed minutes, which is just basically been the case for the last three or four runs, I think that goes a long way. That goes a long way and kind of like even further entrenching him in that category. Because if not, if the Sixers flame out again, I think this line of conversation is totally reasonable. This is what superstars go through. Like it's what Hardin has gone through.

It's what Chris Paul has gone through. Like you need to like provide a certain threshold of team success. If you're going to be regarded as one of those players, and this is an MVP candidate in the prime of his career, this is the expectation is that you can be one of those guys on one of those teams. So would you put him as MVP favorite, Rob? It feels that way, both based off of kind of the momentum of the last few seasons and the

opportunity here and now with Hardin both setting him up and not quite scoring in the way that James Hardin historically has. I think, I think that that makes a pretty compelling case for him in that slot. This is what Fanduil has for, for odds. So they have Luca first and Bede second. Janice KD at 4th. Yokic Curry Tatum. Who do you like, Wasp?

Janus, to be honest, um, did that, Ron? I, I like Janus. Because it's like, Janus to me, any MVP conversation, It's always about motivation and matched with your skill level and ability to achieve MVP level outcomes. To me, Yonis is just he's going to play hard.

He understands that people think all these other guys, these other teams have emerged and are better than him. He didn't win it last year. And he's going to go out and try to kill people. So for me, I don't like, Joel with his injury history and all of that, I can't pick a guy like that who's been that unreliable. as far as attendance-wise when it comes to his injury history.

So, like, no, I'm Janice. I can't pick Joelle over Janus. And Luca was just like, oh, he's not fat at camp this year. I can't get behind those MVP candidates. I am looking forward to a full season of Joelle and Bede talking about how he's over it and doesn't want the MVP anymore,

while everything he does suggests, oh, I really care about the MVP a lot. Yeah. I mean, he's in the campaign. in a situation where he just needs to play enough games. Like if he's in the 70s, I think he has a shot. If he's back into the 60s, it's not going to happen. Yannis, I'm a little less optimistic about just for his candidacy's sake,

if only because he's won so much already. And also, like, he played a lot of minutes over the summer in Euro Bastia. And, like, this team as a whole, we can get to the bucks later. But, like, they're probably going to be coasting for the foreseeable future in the regular season. So I would, I would think Luke is probably the best bet. If only because, like, it always comes down to the narrative. And so I'm betting on which player can help lift the team past their over, over their expectations the most and do so in a way that it doesn't conflict with another star player. And Luca kind of checks those boxes.

Does voter fatigue expire, though? Because, you know, Janus hasn't won in two seasons now. I wonder if I wonder if we're kind of going to come back to him in that capacity. He's back. And also, we don't do the Derek Rose shit anymore. Thank God. Thank God. We come up with statistics I've never heard of before

And then just use that to base our entire argument around Yeah What statistics are you talking about? I just remember like the numbers people were coming up with About Yokic I'm like I have never heard of this before I'm not saying that he wasn't deserving But we've gone the complete opposite direction Where we're just making up math

You come up with a number It's just like so great To the Yokish stuff There was so much Yokish skepticism like even me who I'm like, you know, I'm number one NBA hipster skeptic that exists. I was even like, guys, come on. Yokic is the MVP. Come on, guys.

Justin, you'd have a case if he didn't also lead the league in all the numbers you have heard of. It was just, you know, just icing on the cake. Here's some new stuff. There's nothing against Yokic. It's more against, I guess, math. I can't wait for the new stats to drop, though. Yeah, exactly. All right.

let's speaking of yokech let's go to number four the Denver nugget to good lord if we're talking about a team with some dark horse finals contender hype uh i guess our friend wosny here is the president vice president and treasurer i am uh you rank the nuggets number one in our individual ballots so i guess the floor is yours to make the case that they are the best team in the mb yeah i think to me they have the best unit in the league the their offense is going to solve every defensive problem that can be thrown at them. And how I know this is they're getting their asses handed to them in the first round. Where the warriors who, bro, they know what they're doing on that end of the floor.

Like sneakily defenses their identity. Jiamon is the best defensive player of this generation. I'm telling you, he's better than Kauai Leonard. He is the best defender that we've seen. And they couldn't do anything with Yokic. and they knew he was getting the ball. They knew what he was trying to do, and they couldn't do anything with him,

and he didn't have Jamal Murray, didn't have Michael Porter, Jr. And I think just their offense is going to, when they are clicking, is going to be insane. They're going to be the best offense in the league. They're going to create a ton of threes. They're going to create a bunch of, you know,

great looks in the paint with Yokic's passing off of doubles and stuff like that. And just Yokic by himself, just backing guys in when he's single covered. I just think they're going to be the most incredible offense in the league. And defensively, they've addressed enough that they can paper over some of their stuff. And this is the hugest caveat. Assuming that Michael Porter, Jr. can be something approaching passable. Oh, right?

Like passable on defense. It's not great, not some, you know, some lioness on deep. Like, no, just be like some resistance to the worst guys on the other team. Like, if you can do that, I think they're going to do it. And what I mean by they've addressed their weaknesses, I love what KCP brings to them. As far as he can guard the point guard types when they need him to, he can guard. Normal-sized wings like the Devin Bookers or whatever. Like he's not going to be able to deal with Kauai Leonard and Paul George.

They're too big for him. But normal-sized wings and the great point guard types, the Steph Curry running off-of-screen types, like nobody locks in trails the way KCP does. And he adds the shooting component to what? Michael Porter Jr. and Murray and freaking, like, bro, it's crazy. You're selling this vision. I love it.

way he's unlocking what they do. And Bruce Brown, quite frankly, is a beautiful match for Yokic, for MPJ minutes when he's on the bench. I just think his instincts for the game, his feel for the game, he already flashed an ability to attack four on threes when inevitably guys like Yokic draw two on the ball or Murray draw two in the ball. I just think they got what it takes. I feel like I'm on Shark Tank

to win the championship Yeah man I'm ready to buy in man Let's go run through a wall for you I'm nugget top And again Their MPJ could He could not play

And this thing kind of goes In certain directions And yes I get it We're on a You know Sort of razor's edge With this team

Health-wise But when their guys are right To me they are as good As everybody in the league And this is the best Nuggets team of my life. Can we just pause for a second? Because I think one thing we need to point out as media members is that in the

take economy, I think you kind of want to make your bets with good odds, right? You want to put your money on a team that, like, has a chance to blow past expectations so that when it happens, you could say, oh, I was first on then. And so what I'm hearing from you, Wads, correct me if I'm wrong, is this is your calculated take bet on a team that if they do end up being in the finals, you could look back and say this. But if they aren't, you could be like, oh, injuries, no, it's fine. I'm so early on the Nuggets, I was on them two years ago, okay?

Excuse me. I was on them before Jamar Murray blew his knee out. But, and again, and we should talk about, like, the problems that they have. Like, the bench is a problem. They traded away, you know, a decent amount of their debt to get KCP in here. Bones Highland isn't some playmaker type of guy. He's a score. I think he's got the ability to be a capable backup point guard,

but that's not really what his bag is. So he's going to have to do some adjustments. You know, we ask it a lot from a Zeke Najee type of guy. You know, outside of the starting unit shooting is going to be a thing. Mike Malone has a history. of not liking the stagger units and when you have a shit bench, you need the stagger units,

you need to stop doing this bench mob shit. So there's a lot of drawbacks even outside of the injuries. But the high-end version of the nuggets I will put against anybody in the NBA. This is the problem with making the case against, though, is like, you expect me and Justin to argue against the nuggets?

Like, we're so entrenched in this camp at this point. Well, speak to yourself. Oh, you're out on the Nuggets? Justin already called on the Nuggets. He said on the sheet they're a bit overrated. That's what he says. Look, I was expecting we would have to have like a fourth person call in to be the hater extraordinaire on the Nuggets.

I didn't see this for you. Rob, can you talk about why you also love the Nuggets? Make me look smart? Go ahead. I think you articulate it pretty well. I will say I'm not I'm not number one team in the league high on the Nuggets. I am. That's next level shit.

Rob and I both rank them seven, I believe. That's good. And Waz's number one ranking just average them out to we're at the point with Ford. No, like I believe everything that you're saying to, but the problem is Michael Porter Jr. Like we're betting on someone who has played in total 3,000 minutes over five years. A team that we have ahead of them is the Los Angeles Clippers. Sure. I would say their injury problems are way bigger than the Nuggets.

The difference is that Kauai has been managing this over the past. couple years and has proven that he can get past that to excel in the playoffs. Yeah, but Michael Porter Jr. came in. Well, I think he's an integral part of this team. I think you need him if you want to be number one. Your best player hasn't finished two of the last three post seasons. Michael Porter, Jr. came into the league and missed the first season with a back problem. Like, if he's been a finals MVP before, like I'm willing to give him a little benefit of the doubt. But like, yeah, this.

This has been pretty persistent. And we probably haven't talked enough about Jamal Murray coming back for major injury and having to duck out of the preseason because of a hamstring tweak. It's just like if it were one of those guys, I think they make a pretty interesting conversation with the clippers. When you have both of them against Kauai, which I think is a compelling argument, the difference is like we know Kauai and what he can do on the absolute highest levels. We know what Jamal Murray can do in the first and second rounds. You know, we've seen him at that threshold and he's really,

really good. It's just, again, there's a certainty with who Kauai is when he plays that's a little more comforting than if Michael Porter Jr. can be passable on defense. If Jamal Murray can be what he's been and even better and basically have an all-star level season. And if we see that, you know, we've only seen 15-ish games of this lineup as fully constructed. And that's, you know, at least the core of four. Now we're, now we're plugging in our guy Kenny in the Will Barton spot. I like it. We love the contours. of it. I think we just need to see a little bit more to be on the fully, the fully on board number one team in the league bandwagon. You guys will rue the day that you downloaded the Denver

Nuggets. And just circling back to our son's conversation though, I do think guys like Bones and Naji are the difference when you get to this point in the power rankings where it's like it also afforded them the option to trade two good role players in Barton. and Monty Morris for one guy in KCP who probably... That's a better fit. What they do, exactly. And so now, like, the defense looks good. I'm not sure if we're going to get top five.

Like, our friend Michael Malone... Is that what he said? He said that... Does the defense look good, though? It's been kind of messy. In preseason, it's been pretty messy. But I think what... I have some optimism because the results aren't as bad in recent years

as I think a lot of people would lead them to believe. Like, 15th, 11th, 16th, 10th. over the past four years. And now you're adding more credible defenders to that. Aaron Gordon gets to play more of like a roving four sort of situation, ideally if Porter's healthy. So it makes more sense to me. And you're taking probably less pressure off of Yokic.

But yeah, no, five is, seems unlikely. It feels like the kind of thing where you aim for five and you wind up 12th. And that's probably good. And that's probably good enough with the way that offense is. Sure. All right. let's move along here. Number three, the Milwaukee Bucks, who, if I remember correctly, we all had at three, no, I had them at two and you guys had them at three. It seems like the same old thing

with the Bucks. It's so funny that for so long, the Bucks' narrative was like, man, do we really know what this team is? Like, can they really overcome it into the playoffs? And now we've come completely full circle to where I can't think of a team that I'm more confident in will be there when it matters. And it's just such a, just a whiplash situation here. The point where like, I think the bucks have some really big concerns, like with their benching going forward,

which we could talk about. But like, yeah, I would be surprised if this team wasn't in the Eastern Conference finals, at the very least again, this season. Yeah, I mean, the questions are going forward, right? As far as what they're going to be this season, I think, you know, but first, they're going to be amazing, right? Like, they're going to be a really good team this season.

They're hopefully going to have Brooke Lopez back for the full, the full slate of it, which is going to help their defense a lot. And I think the reason we trust them in that capacity is because we trust Janus probably as much as any star in the league right now. Yeah, I think outside of Golden State, they're the most known quantity that we have in the NBA.

And so, you know, they have the championship equity. They have the continuity in staff and even, you know, the core of the roster of guys that went really far in the playoffs, you know, and went decently far with what they had last year. years before that, they're doing conference finals type of stuff. Like they have all of that equity. And so, you know, it's like the Bucks, what is there to say?

Like, they have Janus. They have the scheme. They're going to be a good team. It's just about what they can do on the margins to improve what they've got around Yonis and Middleton and the rest that could possibly take them to another, you know, slightly elevated level. But, yeah, I think the Bucks are going to be. going to be as good as anybody and i understand why there are a lot of people's pick to win the

championship this year well if we're going to concern troll just a little bit just to play devil's advocate middleton out with an mcel uh joe ingles their their big free agent get is out even though he hasn't played a game for them yet uh defense was not their forte last regular season for the first time in many years when they were a borderline historic defense uh lopez comes back of course but he is older and you wonder if they have to change anything schematically, Bud has already talked about a little bit of playing up more on three-point shooters and actually defending the three-point shot this year. So we might see a little bit of a change there.

But do any of these things jump out to you, Rob, is like a major concern. Not really. And I think some of it is last season felt like an acclamation to me. It was a team that had not played very small, very often being thrown into the deep end of, oh, Janus or Bobby Portis are basically your fives at almost all times. Now, you're going to sink or swim with that. And I think mostly they treaded water and sometimes they sank. And it wasn't great all the time defensively until Lopez got back and they started showing the shape of their previous selves.

But the difference between the Bucks having to play small versus having the option of playing small, I think is pretty dramatic. Right. Like as a change of pace tactic, that's very effective. It's just not where the rest of the team has been in terms of knowing those habits and how to play that way. So I'm pretty optimistic they're going to bounce back on that side of thing. things. And I guess if I'm reading their pick allotman correctly, they do now have the ability to trade one first round pick in 2029 if they do so choose. And it does feel like this team is set up more likely than most to make a trade for somebody to to kind of plug some of the rotational minutes. Let's talk about some of their options just quickly because I do think they're going to have some options here. So we have the jazz guys, Jordan Clark, or Mike Conley, you have the Miles Turner, Buddy Healed poo-poo platter. I can't imagine they get both, but maybe they get one.

Jay Crowder, our friend, who is trapped in Eric Bledso's salon and Phoenix, maybe like a Lou Dort, who just got paid, wants to go play for a better team. Maybe the Thunder just, like, roll them into more of draft picks, because as we've discussed, they love those. Like a Yakup hurdle as Lopez insurance, even though that they re-signed Sergei Baca for some reason. like maybe he wants out. Denny of these wise, like, jump out to you is, like, what they need on this team.

I'd like to see them get some shooting, man. Like, always, always, always shooting to optimize Janus being the most unstoppable paint presence, you know, since Prime LeBron. Like, I would like to see them get some shooting. But Buddy Heald is so, he's such a non-entity on defense. Like he's so bad at it. And like for a team that's going to be playing crucial games,

that becomes a major problem where it's like, you know, Jordan Clarkson sucks at defense, but he like gives you on ball juice and shooting, right? Whereas Buddy Heald is like, yeah, I shoot it. Nothing else. Like I don't do anything else. So Buddy Heel doesn't, I'd almost rather Jay Crowder, who has a, you know, adventurous jump shot.

but, you know, he's pretty versatile in the kind of guys he can defend from fours to threes. He can be switchable. He can get hot. And so that, like, you know, people do have to guard him, you know. So I would say Crowder of that group excites me the most because he shoots it and it's credible on the other end. Yeah, I mean, not to just like chase after the glory days here,

but PJ Tucker was another guy with a pretty adventurous jump shot. And we saw how that could work out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's so true. Jay isn't that level of defender, but we know what that kind of player plugs into with this team. Yeah.

I keep looking at Jordan Clarkson, which surprises me because I've never been a big Jordan Clarkson fan. One, because he's on the younger end. I do think if you're going for a Crowder, you're going for a Conley, you're doubling down on the now, which makes sense.

This team is built to win the title immediately, but there are, as we kind of alluded to you, longer-term concerns with a lot of this roster, age, Chris Middleton being on a player option, etc. There's just like not a lot going forward here. If anything, it's a lot of the guys that they overpaid this offseason just to bring back what they had in the Bobby Portis, a Conantin, Grayson Allen, those type of guys. And so you want someone who could maybe be here for a couple of years. And also like as we saw last postseason, like it'd be nice to turn to somebody who could hit a shot

when you really need to. And of these guys, Clarkson to me makes the most sense long term. And just somebody to have an offensive juice to maybe like care. you through the regular season by running a second unit, God forbid, running with the first unit. I think he checks a lot of boxes here. But just the description of a guy who can hit a shot when you need him to, and Jordan Clarkson is our nominee? I mean, would you rather Crowder or like a Conley in that game seven against the Celtics?

My name is he's like an on ball guy. That's how he gets all of his shots, right? He's a creator. And, you know, like, it's nice when you could prop up a bench unit with some cute shot creation there, but like he ain't going to be on the ball when they need stuff from from guys when it matters. Like nobody's going to be like, yeah, we have Jordan.

So we're going to let him cook. That's not going to be a thing. And he's, he has, his catch and shoot has gotten better. Like since he got to Utah, he got better with catching shoot stuff. But I don't know. Jordan Clarkson to me seems like he's like a nice thing to have. He never feels like a necessity. in his defense the Utah change as you alluded to was was pretty real like I think it is more sustainable

in a way that you would have not obviously not have said during his his brief time with the calves or previously like he was one of their best players in that series against Dallas it was not really his fault that things went to absolute shit in that series for Utah I just don't know if I'm a team that's competing for what the bucks are competing for that I'm banking on him in that kind of way where I'm giving up maybe our one future first that we can trade right now for that guy So who do you like among that group or maybe outside of that group, right? I mean, the realistic cases, I think Jay Crowder is the guy I would look at. Obviously, if you could get into the Miles Turner discussion, that would be wonderful.

I just don't see a realistic way to do this to meet the asking price for a player of that caliber. I don't know. I just go back to Game 7, man. If they had one guy who could hit a shot, that would have been nice. Anyway. All right. Number two, you're Los Angeles Clippers, a team that I ranked. number one. Here's the question with the clippers. They have the most depth of any team I could

ever remember. I cannot remember a team that was just not only too deep at every position, but three deep at a lot of crucial positions. We talked about some other teams on our list here today about just how many wings that they have stockpiled, the Sixers and the Celtics, but good Lord, the clippers just have an abundance. I think the question becomes, And Rob, you wrote about this over the summer. Is it too many guys? Is it the greatest test, perhaps, of the too many guys theory we've ever had in modern NBA basketball?

It is. But look, as lovers of excess, we absolutely love to see it, right? Like, we want to see this thing stretch to its absolute limit. I think the important caveat to that is too many guys works differently for veterans than it does for young dudes, right? Like the Clippers have a lot of players on their roster who are on their third and fourth deals, really good veterans. who have basically become career role players, that's very different than the reason we are

skeptical of, say, the long-term construction of the Atlanta Hawks a year or two ago. Because those are guys who need to eat. Those are guys who need shots to get new contracts. Those are guys who need shots to get new roles. That's not really the case here. Like, there's going to be players who are left out in the cold in terms of closing games. You're not going to be on the floor. Maybe this month or that, your minutes go down a little bit.

But I get the feeling that, especially given the timing of when some of these guys came into the organization and especially as free agents, they know what they're signing up for. Like, no one is caught off guard here by how deep this team is. And so if you're signing up to be a part of that, I would think you're at least somewhat on board with the process. Yeah, and the part about them being old, a lot of these cats going to need days off.

You know, load management, rest, the typical injuries that come with the long 80 game season, I'm not too concerned about the load management factor. To me, it comes down to your two best guys are always hurt, often hurt, always hurt. Kauai Leonard just straight up can't play 60 games in an NBA's. He won't play 60 games for the rest of his career, right? And you're counting on him to the most grueling of basketball minutes to make it through four rounds of that. Because if he does it, that's it, you're done.

There is no version of this team winning with Kauai Leonard, not just one playing, being excellent. So that's why I'm way more down on the clip. I'm like, why would I think that these guys can be healthy? I guess the counter would be that they did make the West Finals without Kauai. Fluk. I mean, those things happened in the post in a time. Yeah, no, but like when they got to the West Finals, they did not have Kauai. Yeah.

But like, you know, I think they have enough. Like if it was just, if they lost Paul George, like I could see. a situation where they made it just based Paul George Justin come on you really think the clippers are that good I think we're assuming that like they would be going up against full strength warriors or whoever when that just like it doesn't actually happen like that

yeah like if the warriors are a little messy and the nuggets are a little messy then maybe you don't need a fully operational Paul George if you're the clippers like you have enough here that you can make a full rotation without a guy like that which I think is what makes them appealing to us although it does invite a lot of questions. And yes, Kauai absolutely positively needs to be healthy at the end.

That's true. Because if he's not, this conversation is over. Like the team is very deep, but it's structured in such a way where Kauai does matter to that extent. Yeah. We're assuming decent health, or at least the health we've gotten from these guys with the past couple of years going forward. I think the bigger question is they have all of this death, but would you feel better about them if you knew.

who your number three was with a bullet. Would you feel more comfortable if you knew right off the bat who these guys are going to close with every night? Because on the one hand, you could be like, they have options, they'll just figure it out. They figure it out before.

On the other hand, as we've seen with some of these teams with options, like maybe you don't have the right option, where it's like, yeah, Nicholas Petum can get us through certain situations, but like maybe you can't hang in others. Like maybe John Wall will be the defensive point guard whenever we need him to,

if he could still hang on that end. and Reggie Jackson will be our offensive juice off the bench. But like, why not have both? And like, do we have both? And so I think that would be the concern. I personally don't buy that. I think they just have so many options that they'll figure it out. But I think that would be the devil's advocate.

Yeah, when we start getting into, oh, what's my third option? These are the problems of rich people, right? I don't. And Ty Lou to me is he's an offense first coach. And the idea of like figuring out what their third option. to score is, which is what we're talking about, I don't think that's going to be something that comes up. And two years ago, these guys were producing three,

I think they were the greatest three-point shooting team of all time and something ridiculous like that. So they're going to be an offensive juggernaut when their guys, when Paul George and Kawhi Leonard are right. So I don't even think about third options with these guys. To me, it's all about health, health, health. if you are going to have that definitive third star, I don't think you can have this kind of depth, right?

They're almost antithetical to each other. So I will take the depth plus to me, Norm Powell, is the closest thing to a third guy on this team. That's great. And that's a guy who's putting up 19 a game for other teams, right? Like, can he play defense? And he's a guy who gets scored, no, he doesn't play defense. But he's a guy who's kids scored 20 points in a playoff game.

Absolutely. You know, like reliably against credible defense, you know? So, yeah, I think that offense is just not what I think about with this team. Right. And I guess on that note, are we worried at all that they only have one center on the roster? Who is it that you're worried, like the team that's like wired to mismatch hunt at the five, especially on the bench right now? Like, who is it you're worried about?

I guess, let's assume that the Lakers make a trade and they're putting Anthony Davis at the five. Sure. In the finals, if you get to that point, Yonan. at the five. Yeah. And Bede. I think when you get to the highest levels, you're probably dealing with this at some point.

But I don't think like, like, look, if you think that a replacement level center, if you think Luke Cornett is what's saving you from Janus at the five, I think you're closer to oblivion than you think you are. They need to go and get heart and steam. Right.

I guess they're just hoping that they can impose their role at small ball and just have Covington, who is effectively the backup five, on this team and just do it that way. And listen, it's worked. Like it blew off. It pretty much fell the Utah Jazz era of Rudy Gobert to the point where they're now

trolling for picks in order to get our boy, you're Webb and Yama. So it works. And I don't know why I'm being so negative on them because I had them first on my rankings. And so I believe in all of these things. I'm just like trying to spark a discussion here. I just like, I just think they have so many options that I think it works. I think if anything, I'm probably more worried that marketing. Morris thinks he's the number three option because I've never been sold on that guy.

But I think they're going to figure it out. And if it doesn't work, they actually can trade draft picks once again. And so like they could probably swing a trade better than a team like the box or some of these other contenders in order to get that last piece if they need so. Yeah, we'll have to see who on their roster is the guy in that Marcus Morris vein in terms of, yeah, they may understand implicitly on some level that they're not going to play a ton of minutes or get a ton of shots, but they really think they're going to be on the floor when it matters. If I'm constructing like closing lineups, Marcus Morse is not really a part of very

many of them. Like what he does is not as valuable when you have Kauai and Paul George out there. So I'm looking at so many of the other guys who give you different kinds of skill sets in those situations personally. And maybe that rubs a Marcus Morse the wrong way ultimately. Okay. So my top three was Clippers, Bucks, Warriors. Laws's was Nuggets Warriors bucks. And Rob, you had Warriors number one, then the Clippers and then the Buck. they average out to be our number one team that is the Golden State Warriors. My first question to you,

are you regretting that at all in light of recent events? I mean, I didn't anticipate anybody getting punched in the face, if that's what you're asking. Yeah. It wasn't off the board. I'll say that. I thought, look, post-championship, I thought that was kind of off the board.

I thought we were going to be rolling into a preseason of good vibes for the Warriors. That's clearly not the case. there's like existential problems for this group now that they have to face. And really the moment that did it for me is when Kavanaugh-Luny came out and said, like, look, we have a long road ahead. And Dremond is going to have to do a lot to earn back the team's trust. I was like, oh, this is, this is serious shit now.

You know, like, this isn't something that they're just moving on. Look, once Kavanaughn-Luny, the least dramatic player in the NBA is laying down that kind of framing, like, this is a real thing for one of the great teams that we've ever seen in terms of, like, eras and dynasties and NBA history, this is a real threat to their long-term construction. Yeah. I didn't expect Kavanaughan Luni to be the moral arbiter of the number one team on our rankings, but here we are. Waz, have you ever punched a friend in the face? No, never, not once. Rob? But you know, I don't work in a field where millions of dollars are at stake on the day to day, and these guys are very obsessed with their status and they're, you know,

where they stand with the team and money is seen as you know the measurement of how important you are to a place and you know whatever like I don't I think everybody's already known that Jemann was a bit of a

maniac and so this follows in that sort of that tradition uh Ethan brought it up the other day where he read an article from 2016 after the KD thing and it was literally word for word they were just like, oh, we're so tired of the, this was six years ago.

We're so tired of the Draymond cycle. Do something ridiculous. Do this ridiculous act and contrition. You know, get forgiven by the team, blah, blah, blah. Like, we know this guy is a bit, you know, office. A bit much. Yeah, he's a lot. And he's been a lot.

However, he is absolutely integral to what they do. He's more valuable to them than he would be on any other team in the league. And so, you know, here we are where he, gets a light. I don't want to say light. He got fine. He's faced public, legitimate public ridicule and shame. And deservedly so. And he's going to come back with his tail between his legs and his hat and his hand. And we'll see how he adapts to it. But I'm at the point with the Warriors where, and I said this on the show already, they're the new Manu, Tim and Tony. You know, I expect them to be heard from every single year. So long as those,

Those three guys are there. And it's going to be exciting and fun to see what Cominga brings to the table. It's going to be exciting to see Jordan Clarkson playing on a contract year if he doesn't get this deal done in season. Is that done? I mean, I always do this with Jordan Poole and Jordan Clarkson just because they're like-skinned guys. Jordan Poole, we'll see what happens with his deal or whatever. But he can take it up another level. And of course, Wiseman, the number two overall pick.

You know, a guy who people saw is like an immensely talented big athleticism that they just don't have at that position. They don't have the vertical threat, both offensively and defensively that this guy brings and speed and quickness and all of that. So it's going to be nice to see them put this stuff together. And Devenzo, like, they're going to be a really good team, man. There's been two ways about it. And, yeah, I think they deserve to be number one, even if I think Denver. I will say the era of James Wiseman easing into a very low pressure season was very shortly lived. You know, now he needs to be the center of the future effectively if we're going to really entertain the long-term ramifications of this Draymond stuff.

Bro, he's eligible for an extension after the year. That's crazy. He's probably going to get it. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, the Warriors have a lot going in their favor. I think the question becomes is, was this punch just the tip of the iceberg of something that's been brewing in the background for a couple months now? And that it seems like a lot of the people as a result of this are treating this as if it was the culmination of Dremont's discontent over his contract situation.

And Poole being the recipient, I think probably made sense not only because he is a little bit brash and young, he's the new guy on the block, but he's up for a very pricey extension, who, by the way, probably gets paid that if not more as a result of this. So he might actually be a big winner, if only like his face was not. Um, but if it does. Yeah, right. Uh, it, it, it definitely seems like it could have been indicative of certain tensions beneath the surface and you wonder how much that bruised to the surface over the course of the season. Because as we saw before, like, this happened with the KD situation. and they got through it and they probably would have won the finals that year if they didn't get hurt,

but it made things messier along the way. Well, that's where you go from like the Sons and D'Andre Aiton, right? Like an isolated case of like, is this guy going to get paid to like, like, I'm not saying there's like a finite amount of money here to be split between these players who all want various extensions for the warriors. But there is like some, there is some competition for resources. Like at some point, Golden State is going to say, we are going to extend this guy, but not that guy.

And you don't want to be that guy. You already saw it with Gary Payton over the summer. Who like was a, he changed things for them when he finally came back from his injury in the playoffs. Like he was a legitimate difference maker that they were just like, yo, this guy's going to have to walk because it's going to cost us like $25, $30 million. You know, at a certain point, some of this stuff becomes cost prohibitive. So we've already seen it happening on the margins. And it's only natural that it's going to come for the more. prominent guys at some point because quite frankly you don't need to have clay

Thompson and Jordan pool you don't need to right um you don't need to have draymond green and the theory of uh wiseman you know what I mean like like you don't need to do those things so this is going to come to you know nut crunching time at some point and I think the Draymond thing if anything he's just not going to be on the team passed his deal, his current one. That's what it feels like. I think the combination of his age and how grading the guy has been over the years makes it so that we have your replacement or who we think can be a suitable replacement.

You're going to want way more from us than what your market value is out there. We're tired of your shit, you know, telling Steve Curtis suck your dick and all of the, Just the craziness that this guy has been part of since he's been there. And I just think this has just made it so that it's like, yeah, Jemann, you're not going to be back after your deal is up. To rewind on something you said there was, like, do the warriors need all of these, all of this excess of riches, all of these luxuries? I thought you were going to harken back to the sucker. Bro, they have Kaminga and Wiggins. It's Kaminga and Wiggins.

It's Poole and Clay Thompson. It's Draymond, Loonie, and Wiseman. It's like, bro, they don't need all this. No, but Clay and Jordan Poole, I think, is the one to locate, to really zoom in on because Jordan Poole is feeling like an increasingly important warrior and not just because he was involved in this thing where he got punched in the face and might get a ton of money. Like, personally, I would be surprised if Clay Thompson plays more than 65 games this season. The Warriors are already being really cautious in ramping him up for the regular season.

And the reason that's okay is because you have Jordan Poole who can jump in and give you big time shot creation, big time regular season production, and at least has shown some capacity to do that stuff in the playoffs. That might be more than a luxury at this point. Like, I think Steve Kerr was right to zero in on Poole as by far the most advanced of the young guys on the team right now, on top of the fact that it's just like nice to say nice things about Jordan Poole at this particular point in time. Sure. But he was right. Yeah, I actually have it down here. Would Dremont get a harsher punishment if he had Clay's skill set? Meaning if they already had Poole waiting in the the wings and Dremont played like Clay, would they be more open to cutting bait right now?

For sure. I mean, but that's before he punched a guy in the face. They would have, like, he's not pleasant to deal with. He's just not. He's constantly in it with multiple members of the organization. Steph Curry is Steph, so he's smart enough to know that's the Don. He's Teflon. You can't mess with the Golden Child.

He's smart enough to know that, but everybody else is fair game. And I mean, everybody else. Well, I do wonder then if he still has Steph's buy-in and protection, because it does seem like Steph is kind of like the godfather there. And you can kind of pick and choose there if he still has that. And it seems like he does because their initial reaction, and we're recording this Wednesday morning on the Pacific Coast, it does seem like everyone's going to try to get along here first and foremost

and, like, come back together and pretend like, oh, well, we're going to do the work and then we'll see what happens. And so I assume if Curry wants it to happen, Jemann stays. And until then, like, I don't know what's going to happen. Because like you're saying, it's like it's a practical choice versus like a convenient choice. Like, yeah, it may suck to work with Draymond Green, but he's incredible defensively and he really just like brings them to another level.

And I don't know how you deal with that in the midst of a title defense when you're, if not the favorite, then you're definitely in the top two or three. Well, the early reporting on that is that Steph has at least, getting those two guys in rooms together to have some pretty constructive conversations, which we'll see if that makes a difference at all. I do think this is like a really interesting case

on steps, Steph's leadership post KD, right? Post-KD. Dremont blow up where I think we saw him play more of like a vibes ambassador role. Like if I remember the timeline correctly, he wasn't even with the team when Stefan, when a Draymond and Katie first got into it and flew

to join the team. But my impression of that whole dynamic was more like him talking to parties individually and trying to like smooth things over that way. If he's playing more like actual negotiator and arbiter in this thing and like actually more of a middleman in terms of kind of like brokering a piece, I think that would show kind of an interesting development and this and maybe just an expression on his part of like, look, this Draymont stuff has reached a different level, right? Like this needs to be dealt with in a much more direct way even though Jordan Poole isn't KD

and the fallout of Jordan Poole being mad or wanting to leave the war. Warriors wouldn't be nearly as dramatic, I think it's still, it's still a suggest something that he's approaching it in a pretty different way. Right. Well, here's a kind of an ancillary question. And it's a little bit more directed toward the basketball here. I think as a result of this, but even before that, I think the Warriors were treating Jordan Pool as if he was the prince that was promised. Waz, are you buying the pool hype? Because I think he got a lot of it last year, but was still kind of ascending. I think this year is probably the prove it you could be on the level of of some of these veterans on the Warriors type of season.

Yeah, I think Jordan Poole is kind of proven that he is a top-tier NBA on-ball kind of guy. Like, he is what he's able to do off of the dribble with his shot, like his spot-up game is incredible, but his off-the-dribble where you can't do your, I'm Rudy Gobert and I'm going to drop defend or any of these other teams that want to sag off of picking roles with that's not an option right um he presents panic to defenses that's that's elite like that skill is an elite skill not to say that he's an elite player but that's an elite skill obviously he's probably their worst defender at this point and you know he's not exactly john stockton when it comes to playmaking but what he does on the ball that he can fire and raise up

off the dribble from so deep. Yeah, he's that, man. And, you know, I know he's looking at Tyler Hero and he's thinking to himself, ooh, buddy, thank you, Miami for setting that market for your boy, because I'm coming for it. And so, yeah, no, I don't, I don't even think it's a question. I personally don't question Jordan Poole at this point.

I think he's, he's shown, he's a problem. His track record overall is really solid. Like, if you want to look at overall playoff body of work from last season. I think where he struggled and maybe like the big question with him is he struggled in the games where the warriors struggled.

Like he wasn't able to step up for them to correct things. It was much more of like a bellwether of how they were already playing. And he can, he can juice that stuff. He can facilitate. He can play off of their flow.

He can obviously create off the dribble. It'll be great if we get some context this season on him pulling the team out of a funk, right? Like him showing some of that star capacity because we know he can do this. We know he can give you 17, 18 in a meaningful game. But the other thing is what separates him from the stuffs of the world.

Yeah, he was a bit more of a live wire last season. And I think Rob hit it right there. I think it's more of a consistency issue. Like everybody in the NBA always says the difference between being good and being great as consistency. And seeing that night in nine out, which will be is the key, but which will be tough on a team with three Hall of Famers and guys like Wiggins and guys like Moody and Wiseman and Kaminga who need all opportunities. And so it's that. And it's also How does he break through while still being so low in the pecking order? Because in an ideal world, you could finish a game with Curry, Clay, him. And is that enough perimeter defense even with a like a fully engaged Dreyman and Wiggins in order to make that viable in an NBA finals game?

It wasn't last year. And if it's not like, is he the one who's going to sit, not Clay? Because that really was what happened in the finals. And I think that would make more of a difference. than any sort of like a elements he has to his game. I think he has, as the kids say, a bag. But how does he display that while still being like connective tissue to whatever else is doing?

Between your like good to great difference being consistency and getting into the bag, that was the oldest you have ever sounded on this podcast. I know, I know, which is tough. It's a high bar. I have these young guys that you're believing in in addition to pool, Rob, like, are you a Kaminga guy? Are you a Moody guy? Are you a Dante DeVincenzo on his third team guy?

I'm kind of all of the above, I guess, to varying degrees. I wouldn't say I'm totally sold on any of them. We just need to see more dynamism from Moses Moody, for example. We need to see the exact opposite of that from Jonathan Cumminga. We need to see literally anything from James Wiseman. But I want to see all those things. And I'm not ruling out that any of them could be that in time. I think the toughest sell for me might be the idea of Kuminga as

more than an X factor. I don't know that I really see that for him. It's super early. Maybe he has it. Maybe he doesn't. I want to see more context for that. But ultimately, I think a lot of these guys are slotted pretty well to be meaningful parts of really good teams. They absolutely have that capacity.

If I had to pick one, maybe I'm picking Moses Moody as like, that's a guy you can see being on a finals team and playing really significant minutes at some point, if not this season. So maybe I'm higher on him within the context of his role. But I think all these guys have a real shot. Yeah, Moody plays a clear-cut role. Wiseman, if he's healthy and actually an actual basketball player, like, fit the clear-cut number two center role. Kaminga, oddly enough, seems like the guy that they move things around for the most. Like, he started and plays at Draymond the other night in the preseason game,

and now it's a pre-season game, so who knows. But it, like, it will take the most effort in order to really embrace him and get him the minutes he needs, but at the same time, it seems like they're more actively engaged in that. So who knows? I do want to bring up, like, one small thing that has interesting ripple effects with this stuff,

which is last season in the NBA finals, especially, or maybe it was in the conference finals, I guess, that it started. Andrew Wiggins became aware of the fact that he is allowed to rebound. And if that is a thing, like if he is that level of rebounder, at least in meaningful games,

that changes what you need out of Jonathan Cumminga. That changes, like, you know, can you play him basically as a full-time four alongside James Wiseman or alongside, you know, obviously we've seen it with Draymond, but like if he is that level of rebounder and has that kind of physicality to his game, I think it forgives some of what you're giving up with, you know, playing smaller in the back court, playing a lot of guards at the same time, trying to get so much offense on the floor, that feels like a pretty big development to me. I believe that was the first reference to Wiggins in this entire warrior segment.

He's pretty good. Somehow he has become the most sure thing, perhaps, outside of, of like staffing Klan, some of these other guys. Just what a turnaround for him. Yeah. And another guy who, uh, money. It's like this is crazy, dude. Like this is, it's, it's, it's, it's, the more you think about it,

the more you understand like, Jemar reading the writings on the walls, like, yo, these guys ain't going to pay me. There's too much mouths to feed. You know, like with Wiggins is like he, he was, again, like super important. to what they did last year, both defensively and just as an on-ball kind of, you know, play finisher outside of Steph when they needed it in the biggest spots. And, like, it's just crazy to think. NBA All-Star starter.

Andrew Wiggins. Yeah. So, was, does this change your outlook on the Warriors at all? No. No. Rob, you were the same, right? No, I mean, I feel maybe there's a little more of a caveat post. Draymond blow up, but I still feel like just in terms of the roster and how they're built and how everything is arranged here.

They're so stacked. And then Jordan Poole comes out because you're like, you're worried like, oh, is his confidence going to be shaking? He comes out the next preseason game and he's doing behind the bag, crazy, razzle, like, I think it'll be fine, guys. He just got an award that Steph presented him at a game for being the best free throw shooter in the NBA last year. I didn't know that was an award, but... What does it look like? Like every NBA trophy that they show up. It's like it was translucent and it was like a sphere.

Yeah, basically the equivalent of like salesman of the year. You should have to receive that award in the Hoosier state. You got to wait for that Pacers road trip for that one. Yeah. All right. That is it. That is the conclusion of our preseason power rankings. Thank you to everyone who followed us along on this journey.

Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. on production. We'll be back next week when we will have actual basketball from the 2022-23 season to discuss. Enjoy my friends. We'll see you.