The Ringer NBA Show - Preseason NBA Power Rankings, Part 5 | Group Chat

Episode Date: October 11, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos return for the penultimate edition of the power rankings. This time they take a look at teams ranked 10 though six. Suns: (8:30) Bucks: (22:49) Grizzlies: (36:24) Sixers: (50:06) Timberwolves: (1:06:59) Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey y'all. Sirot Sohi from The Ringer here, and I wanted to let you guys know about a new show that I'm hosting. The Ringer WNBA show. We're going to be talking about all the biggest personalities, breaking down and analyzing the latest happenings that make the W so fascinating, featuring some of the best guests and experts from around the league. Tap in with us on the brand new Ringer WNBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Group chat, I am Justin Barrier, and joining me as always, Rob Mahoney, Big. I think I speak for all of us, or at least for one of us, when I say, let's go Mets. Yes, right. Mets are back in the league championship series for the first time since 2015, where we should have freaking beat the Royals in the World Series.

We were ahead in every single one of those games in our bullpen, let us down. But I'm not still bitter about it if you guys can't tell. Yeah, man, just a magical run. This team was dead in the water. in June and just had an incredible turnaround. I think in July, they won 18 of 21 games, something crazy like that. They completely turned the season around, and now they're, you know, one series away,

four wins away from the World Series is just kind of crazy, man. We're very excited for you, Oz. We're very excited for, honestly, what is a very robust contingent of Mets fans at the ringer. But you also let slip some pretty disturbing news to me, which is that you are anti-grimists. You're pro-nets, but anti-grimists, at least as far as the two are affiliated.

I can't say I understand that. It's just, I don't know, just a professional outfit. I just don't think we should be embracing this level of tomfoolery. But, hey, it's working. It's working, I guess. And, yeah, man, it's just been a fun ride. The team is fun. Like, Lindor, probably my favorite met since Carlos Beltran.

And it's just been so good. So, for it. So I just want to get this straight. Grimmis, the McDonald's mascot, just like friend, whatever you want to call him, is a Mets fan now? Is that what's happening? Yeah, like, it's something to do. He was like part of the streak that started the turnaround of the season. He's responsible for the street.

Yeah, they feel like he's partly responsible for turning this thing around. And so, yeah, he's like mobbing fans on the 7 train on the way to City Field. It's become a thing. It's kind of hilarious. There was this local guy, radio guy, Lakata. He had a whole meltdown about it. It's hilarious. I would encourage people to go look that up.

It's quite hilarious in very New York. I can't wait. I got to find that. Rob, where would Grimmis fall on your power rankings of McDonald's characters? He's behind the burglar? No, no, no, no. Hamburgler is an embarrassment. And I don't know.

Whoa. What's the weird little, like, bird thing? You know what I'm talking about? There's like a big, it's like big bird, but smaller. Am I going crazy? So it's not a big bird. It's just bird. It's a small bird.

It's a very small bird. I don't know about this one. I know there's like one that looks like a hamburger too in addition to the hamburger gler. So I don't know if there's like a turforkler. I've never owned that happy meal toy. So I don't know. So I'm happy to report the name of the weird bird is birdie the early bird. I would say I'm neutral.

I'm neutral on that. I do like the guy who is a burger. That's better than the hamburger as far as I'm concerned. I kind of like the hamburger. Like, you know, he's just been reintroduced into society. He's been reformed and just put back out there just to, you know, make people happy. But he's a recidivist. Like, he's constantly stealing more burgers.

Oh, my God. We are who we are in this world. This is a girl mascot. They needed a girl to round the thing out. So they had a girl up there. Wow. Guys only for us. He will not allow any female mascot.

title nine was enough. Come on, no. Anything else happening out there in the world of sports? You guys been checking in on the starting five yet on Netflix? Have not checked it out. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. LeBron's like rehearsed media routine thing didn't seem like it would be the most compelling content. So I haven't been in a rush for it.

Jason Tatum, great player. not the most interesting personality. Demonis a bonus. Don't even need to explain that one. But Jimmy Butler and Anthony Edwards legitimately compelling, interesting public figures. And so to me, that's the selling point of the show. I think we'll check it out at some point.

We have to. I think we're professionally obligated to at least get a sense of what's going on in there. But I do wonder with these sorts of doc series, like how much of it is an entry point for people who are not living in the trenches in the way that we are. I have a feeling most of the stuff that's discussed in it in terms of the meat of the narratives are things we have lived and experienced for a while. Now the on-court miced-up footage and clips, some of that stuff might be at least a little bit new,

and I'm looking forward to that. But overall, we know who these guys are. We know how their seasons went. The behind-the-scenes will be nice, but I wonder if how additive it'll be for sick of like us, Justin. Yeah, I watched the one episode, and I kind of came away with that takeaway, because I liked the quarterback version of this, which I really wasn't plugged into the last NFL season. The Giants were out pretty quickly, and so I stopped caring about it.

And so, like, all that stuff felt new to me, which I watched the first episode of starting five, and it's like, I kind of know this shit. If anything, it's just like LeBron with the mic'd up to, like, add a little color to the fact that he didn't like the minutes, like cap on him to start the season that went away very quickly, but he did dress up as beetle juice in the first one. So maybe if you're feeling in the spooky season spirit, you know, maybe you could, you could plug into that and get something out of that. That's a lot of makeup.

It's a lot of work in the chair. You don't do that for Halloween? You guys don't. Absolutely not. Wazer, are you a Halloween guy? No, I hate Halloween with a passion. Just the idea that I would just, like, just getting dressed up to look stupid. It just never made sense.

I'm talking about since I was like in kindergarten, the entire idea just never spoke to me. I'm just like, so wait, I'm just getting dressed up to look as stupid and horrible as possible. That's the point of this quote-unquote holiday. I never got with it. And, you know, just to speak to the show, yesterday I watched an episode of my guy Pablo Torres podcast,

and it's about Ezra Edelman who did the OJ doc, which to me is the greatest sports documentary in probably the greatest documentary I've ever seen, right? We spent four and a half years doing a prince doc and the princess they put the kibosh on it because it's too interesting because it doesn't just simply valorize this guy and make him a wooden, you know,

like non-three-dimensional full human being. They put the kibosh on it. And that's what this, you know, star-driven, star-produced content is, like Taylor Swift and Beyonce, like it's just going to be an infomercial. for the star. And that's not interesting. And I'm afraid that this Netflix thing is probably more of that and less of the OJ situation. Well, I have some bad news for you guys about Halloween. Just to circle back on that. Three pods from today or actually three weeks from today. So

double that, six pods from today. It is Halloween. So you better believe we're dressing up for that one. Are we pumpkin carving? We could do that. I was just thinking we just show up in some some cool NBA themed outfits. But you know, we need to workshop it. That goes great for guys like us historically. Well, it goes great for me. I don't know about you.

Yeah. I don't know about that. All right. Let's get to the matter at hand here. Maybe put a timestamp in if anyone wants to just blow past us talking about Halloween for 20 minutes. Power rankings part five second to last one, the penultimate episode of the preseason NBA power rankings.

I got to say this is a good crew. Like the past couple have been like teams where it's like, like, oh, they're kind of like, let's see if they can get back to the version that they were before. This feels like some of the more exciting teams in the NBA, starting with number 10, the Phoenix Sons, who I got to say, I know I shouldn't take much away from preseason basketball, but the offense looks crisp. It actually does. It really does.

There's this one clip that I saw where Kevin Durant is bringing the ball up, Devin Booker screens from him, and then on the short roll hits Bradley Beal in the corner almost. seamlessly, almost like a one touch to the corner and then he makes that three. Rob, I'm kind of feeling the Mike Booneholtzer effect already. Yeah, I think in a best case scenario, the Mike Booneholtzer effect is a lot of that kind of autopilot. It's like create the spacing, create the framework, let these guys cook, let them get to their spots, but also let's remind some of the best shooters in the world where their spots should be. And I think that's going to be one of the biggest differences

is how does one of the most mid-range heavy offenses in the, the league, get behind the arc a little bit more. And that's what's been reassuring about the preseason. It's not even just the volume, but the way that they're looking to set up threes. And the way, like the shots that they are trying to concoct because look, the bucks when Mike Booneholzer took over were 29th in three point rate and in its first season jump to third. This is not going to be that level of transformation, but a transformation is coming.

Yeah. It's just nice that they've been professionalized on offense. I get that Mike Boyd, Bodenholzer, like, his reputation was kind of in the dumps after they blew that Miami series and not even blew it. They got their doors blown off by a team that was clearly, obviously, not as good as them. But you can't take away from the guys coaching Acumen, like when he was in Atlanta, when he was in the Bucks.

These guys play extremely disciplined offense. Like, there's no going off script and doing stupid shit. It's like, it's professionalized. Like I said, that's the word that I use for it. And to have, like, dynamic offensive players like Booker and KD and even Brad Bill, even if he is grossly overpaid, he's still a pretty dynamic offensive weapon. And so Booneholes are getting a hold of these guys and making it all make sense in a way that they won't finish last and fourth quarter offense this year like they did last,

which is just one of the most insane. NBA stats of my lifetime that this team somehow had the worst fourth quarter offense in a league that had the Charlotte Hornets in it. It's, you know, so I think this is going to be the opposite of that this year. Yeah, Grace and Allen had a quote at Media Day where he says, if the top six shooters take one more three, they'd be among the league leaders. And now that sounds nice on paper, although I do think that like guys aren't in the flow of the game thinking like, oh, I've taken five threes. I need to take six in order for for this to really work out. I do think a bag man is going to bag or go into his bag or whatever you want to say. But there's just so much to like

here. There's just so much offense. It's hard for me to believe that they will be that bad again. And if Bud can just add some organization to there, some professionalization as was alluded to, I think it works out. Rob, I'm a little bit more concerned about the defensive end. If you're adding a point guard in Titus Jones and even Moni Morris, coming in off the bench, it takes another wing defender off there. Are we closing with K.D., Beal, Booker, and then thus, plus Tyos Jones,

plus Nurkich, then who's going to be defending wings? Is that KD? Is that Booker? So ultimately, I think the question is, I think we all agree that they might be better, and they probably will be better, but how much better can they get into the elite crew in the Western Conference?

I think they might be able to crash it. And especially in the regular season, I think there could be a really good regular season team that will have some of these issues to address in the playoffs. And I think just have a little bit to prove in terms of which of these supporting wings are going to be ready to be the guy at the back end of the rotation when the playoffs come around.

Because we've seen what Josh Akogi's limitations are. We know more or less if you want to stack all of these smaller guards on top of each other, that eventually that's going to be a problem. Like you can't play this many guys of that size in one rotation at once. The defensive issues, I think, well-founded and are a real problem.

That said, they were pretty competent defensively last season. I just think that with the way that things are shaking out, as you alluded to, Justin, with moving more point guards into the lineup, in particular getting a Kogi out of there, and even Royce O'Neill to some extent, like moving into a different kind of role, it's just going to ask a lot of Booker and Beal on defense. Like one of those guys is going to have to be quite good defensively on most nights. And I think they both have it in them. It just depends on how much they want to do it.

And it depends on how much their bodies and Kevin Durant's body and help are going to hold up to that sort of two-way play all the time. Yeah, isn't the point of having KD, Brad Bill, and Devin Booker on a team is so that neither one of them has to shoulder too much of an offensive burden, which theoretically would free them up to be, you know, good defender. Like, I've seen Devin Booker not just be a nice defender, like a good, straight-up, like, ball-hawking type of defense. defender, physical, all of that.

Without a doubt. You know, like, I've seen him do it, and I know he's capable of it. Brad Bill has always had the tools. You know, he's like a, he's got the really long arms and always had some nice, pretty quick feet. He just hasn't always applaud himself because in Washington, he was busy trying to drop 30 every single night with an insane usage. And now that that's not the case, yeah, your energy is freed up to guard somebody, Brad

Bill, Mr. 50 million dollars, do your job. I don't think it's too much to ask us. of a guy who is ostensibly one of the leaders on the team to, like, shoulder that burden of being a great defender if he has the tools, right? Like, we're not talking about, you know, somebody like, say, a Domonas Sabonis at the center who he's trying his best. Like, he's executing. He's in his spots.

But sometimes dudes are just bigger than him. Brad Bill has tools, man, to be a really good wing defender. And so there's no excuse for it. The other side of this, too, is one of the reasons they were so bad offensively in the fourth quarter was they took. turn the ball over all the freaking time. And that's juicing what other teams are putting up in transition. Like they are getting so many easy baskets because of those turnovers.

Not only did they bring in like actual point guards to help deal with some of that stuff. They brought in a very specific type of point guard in Tyos Jones and Monta Monta Morris both, which is like low risk game managers. And when you have this kind of firepower, that's what you need. Yeah. On the one hand, it does set itself up to be a classic big three problem, which who is going to be, the Bosch or who's going to be in the mud doing the hard work. I think there's a world in which Devin Booker does both.

Like, can he take on some sort of role that he had at Team USA where he is maybe even the highest score on the team, but also the guy grinding out on defense, especially in the clutch and late games scenarios and the playoffs when you need that. That seems to be the most likely path forward. But I think you're right, Rob. I think if this team is electric on offense, if this is a top five offense and they could just execute latent games and put that talent to use. better, I think maybe that stuff is mitigated on the defensive end. And so I'm pretty high on them.

I don't have them in the top four in the West, but I had them right there. And I think you're right. If things go well, this team could be very good in the regular season. Yeah, I think when you're talking about what the playoff picture is going to look like in the West, to me, they are a team. I'm basically penciling in for that top six. I don't know where they're going to fall exactly, but they are one of the biggest obstructions to teams like the Lakers. These teams that are going to be in the play and mix that want to get that guaranteed spot. But the sons are going to be out here winning, I imagine, around or more than 50 games. And that's a really high threshold for some of these other also ran teams in the West to measure up to.

Yeah. If they enjoy some average injury luck on this team, yeah, they're going to be way better regular season product. I think they'll probably put out a top five offense. I don't even think that's any doubt to that, right? They weren't that far last year. Exactly. And Bootintholder being able to do this with the team in the Bucks that, like, their offensive talent wasn't crazy dynamic.

Like, Janus is a dominant force. Chris Middleton is, like, he's a really good player. But, like, you didn't look at that roster and be like, oh, yeah, definitely top five offense. Pins and the minute, absolutely not. So the fact that Boodenholzer could get that out of that group. And now he's got guys as gifted as Booker and Durant and Beal. and the stuff around it. Yeah, I think you can pencil these guys in for a top five offense,

which should carry a day to a top six seed for sure. Yeah. I've liked Ryan Dunn in the preseason. Here we go. He's looking pretty good. Yeah. Oh, so Godoro, hype train is just off the rails at this point

because he's finding guys in the corner out of the post. So if they do tack on a couple rotation players from the draft, or even the deep bench, if like you can get more out of Moni Morris and Mason Plumley. There's enough there in order to mix and match there. Rocio-Neill going to the bench. I still have hoped for being a credible wing defender when they need to supplant Tyos Jones with him in order to get more of that on the court there. So there's a lot to like here. My essential question goes back to Booker, though, because as I'm looking at the MVP race,

and we haven't talked about that that much in the series, I wonder how Booker factors in there. So the question I have down, Byersel, Devin Booker, Dark Horse MVP favorite. Do you guys like that at all? I'm seeing no. I think with all due respect, he does not factor in there. Oh, no. So he's 17th in Fandall odds right now. That sounds about right.

Yeah, that sounds about right. Behind Jalen Brown, behind Tyreys Halliburn, which actually that moment makes sense, behind Quai Leonard even. I don't know. I just see a pathway. See, that's disrespectful. Behind Kauai Leonard, who we know is not going to make the freaking games play threshold for this anyway, is nuts. But I just think he would have to demonstrate himself to be like so much better than KD on his own team to get that kind of MVP buzz. And I just don't see that happening.

If they're playing close to the same level in terms of their contribution on offense specifically, he's not going to be in the MVP conversation. And I just can't imagine that he's going to be more productive than Luca Donchage and Shea, who basically played the same position as him. Yeah, we're not even saying that Devin Booker is the 17th best player in the league or anything resembling that. He's top 10 for me. Very much better than that. But between the balance of guys who are, I think, definitively better than him,

your Shay's and your Lukas and your Yokages and your Embedes and that group. And then guys who just have more narrative juice and a bigger. narrative case to make. Like, that's how you get into Tyrese Halliburton, right? Like, that's how you get the Jalen Brunson case. I think all those things combined really box Devin Booker out to where I agree with you. I was like the fact that he needs to be so much better than Kevin Durant to get in the MVP race that there wouldn't be a split decision for voters is kind of what stands in his way.

Yes, I don't disagree with you guys. I think the devil's advocate side of this would be, it feels like Bookers do for one. like just completely game-breaking, season-breaking sort of performance, sort of season. Correct if I'm wrong, this was a first team all-N-B-A guy just a couple seasons ago.

And so, like, I think he has it in him. Can he score 30 points, 32 points, especially if KD gets injured and all of a sudden he's getting more reps there? And then I just look at the bud blueprint where it's like he comes in, they play over their skis like the bucks did before when he got in there.

And all of a sudden, like, maybe they're second in the West and like, what a breakthrough, what a story. Like, that's the narrative he can ride to maybe getting onto the ballot. He does have a lot of competition. There are a lot of guys. There are a lot of good teams in the West in order to vault. But, like, I think the bones are there for it to happen.

But I would agree. It's probably unlikely at this point. So to me, the Sons would have to win something like 60 games for him to seriously get in there. And if KB's getting hurt at any point to bolster the numbers, they're not winning 60 games, right? So, like, I just, I don't know. I don't see his. pathway to that award. But, you know, I'm here for a breakout

Devin Booker season because he's one of my favorite guys in the lead to watch. He has everything he needs to do that. I just don't know that these are the circumstances that would allow it. And frankly, while we're talking about the, you know, the injury situation and like Katie popping out of the lineup and what that would do for Devin Booker's MVP case,

potentially, the layered injury risk here still makes me very nervous. And I think is ultimately one of the biggest, like, potential roadblocks to them having an actually successful season and certainly an actual successful postseason. Like they could be a great regular season team. One of their core guys gets hurt at the wrong time

and they are all kind of prone to do that in their ways. And then all of a sudden everything goes off the rails. No matter how much great progress you made in your shot diet. Yep. Anything else? Any other guys or things we need to hit here? Well, along those lines, I don't want to overstate the importance of Mason Plumley,

but he's better than Drew Eubanks and when your team has a starting center that gets hurt a lot that is a not insignificant thing Drew Eubanks

I thought he was fine last year I thought he was solid he was not fine last year now the jazz went out of their way day one a free agency

to sign Drew Eubanks you don't just do that for any other player you know he's a he's a Jasmine through and through we know that that's true

all right number nine on the list the Milwaukee Bucks a team I feel like I flip flop on practically every hour. I was very down on them, especially as we start to hear the buzz about Chris Milton,

maybe being her. Carrie Trent Jr. gets hit by a hard screen in the first preseason game. He goes down for a short-term injury. It's just like, it's not what you want to see, especially when you have so much concerns about their depth. But then I'm like getting into the weeds of it. I'm like, God damn, there's still a lot on this team.

And so I don't know, Rob, do you follow one way or another? Because I find myself still very much like on the fence. with the bucks. I have very clear reservations about this team, but I want to anchor the conversation in the right place, which is a banged-up

compromised version of this team just won nearly 50 games. And so we hold them to a high standard because Janus is fucking unbelievable all the time. And he dragged them to a lot of those wins. But they win a ton. And they will win a ton again.

And honestly, for as much as we talk about Dame as a player who either is into, or had a bad season or however you want to portray it, I thought he was fine for the most part last year. Some better moments than others clearly had a lot going on that contributed to a sort of spiral as far as just him being like a stable every night, all NBA level player.

I just think the bucks are going to be really good. And they're going to be really good in a way that is still kind of fundamentally flawed at the end of the day. Yeah, last year, it's funny because you mentioned they won 50 games. I don't think this was a 50-win caliber. team in terms of how they played overall last year. They got off to that really great start with Adrian Griffin. They were like 29 and 7 or something crazy like that. But if you looked at their point differential, they were just barely eking out a bunch of close wins. Like, they didn't

have the profile of that kind of team. And then, you know, a bunch of people get hurt. They make a coaching change. And the whole thing just gets thrown into disarray. And so, So, like, a part of me is, like, just having a normal flow to the season will do wonders for this team. When I saw Dame, I think he was talking to Jeff Teague and them on their podcast. Like, Dane, like, looked like he was in incredible shape, right? Like, so he's coming in, like, more refreshed, you know, it's not like a surprise trade to Milwaukee like it was last year. I think that stuff is going to be good. But I think him and Janus, if they don't figure.

out how to be great for and with one another, I don't think the bucks are going to be as threatening as their potential would indicate that they should be. Right. And then Chris Middleton, man, this injury stuff, it's just is getting to be kind of depressing at this point. So like, what, what can they even reasonably expect out of this guy this year? Yeah. So with Janus, I'm of two minds here because I think like he's kind of setting himself up for what might be the all-time revenge season and Janice is all already like going to go balls to the walls

and give it his all and everything. And so if we're talking about MVP candidates, he has to be very high in that list for that reason. On the flip side, him not being able to really finish the past two post seasons is concerning. I am starting to worry that like because he goes so hard in the regular season,

does that have a diminishing effect later on? in the season, is that like piling up injuries at a time you don't need them? Like the fact that he wasn't available and that baser series made the difference. And so I'm starting to wonder if the recipe that they've kind of gone with for so long, like Janus playing his ass off and the structure of Middleton and Lopez, obviously Dame adds a new wrinkle to that. I wonder if the actual blueprint is to be worse in the regular season to be better in the postseason because I'm a little worried if they're going to go so hard in the regular season, you might keep falling into the same trap there.

I think the difficulty with that is this is a team that does still have a lot to figure out. They have things they really need to iron out in how they play even still. And they also need to build confidence and they need to build camaraderie and they need to figure out this kind of revamped supporting cast and where everyone fits in.

And so there's a lot that needs to be sussed out at full game speed in the regular season. And I think that's where the bucks get into some trouble because you're right. They do need Janus to go super. all the time to be a highly competitive team. They are not the same team. If his minutes are being rained in or if his effort level is being controlled,

which also good luck trying to get that guy to play that way, frankly. Also, they're so reliant on him for their defense at this point. And I think this is a big part of why he had to overexert himself so much last year was they were just bleeding points, especially in transition early in the season. And after they hired Doc, it got a little better, but I wouldn't say it sewed everything up. It was still Janus having to bail this team out. And if there is a path to letting Janus have an easier season,

it's somehow improving the defense beyond basically like a middle of the road team, which is what they were by the end of last season. And I think that in itself was a solid kind of tick upward. But I don't know where the radical transformation is in terms of this collection of players all of a sudden being a higher level defense than that. Yeah, Doc Rivers got to earn his check this year, honestly, because he does have to establish, you know, what their rules are on defense. so that guys, like, can be held accountable

when they're not doing their job. And I think more importantly, man, the offense has to have a logic to it. You can't just have guys breaking off plays in the middle of it to do their own thing, feeling like they're empowered to do so. Like, you have Dame Lillard, you have Janice Santo Ticcoumpo,

you should be able to generate high-quality looks on a regular basis with that combination of plays. if you have just average shooting around it, you should be able to generate just incredible offense. And so Doc, to me, the defense here, like not getting back in transition, they were just getting smoked with that last year. And then they couldn't decide if they were a switch team,

if they were a drop team, if they were a hedge team, if they were, like, you know, like they could not decide what their identity was on defense either. But I think the offense is really where Doc has to make his hey, man. Like, they have to, they have to be. an elite offense for this to work. They can't be middling. They can be okay.

Their defense is not going to save them. They have to be a great offensive team. And Doc has to put that structure in for them to be that. Yeah, some of that is on just Dame and Janus kind of ironing out whatever wrinkles still exists between their chemistry. But I also think this is a pretty good opportunity to talk about Chris Middleton, who I have down as the essential question. Did he have the worst offseason of anybody in the entire.

NBA because just to run this back. So apparently he had off-season surgery on both ankles. And just to be clear, you only have two of those. He may play in the preseason, but frankly, it kind of sounds like Doc bullshit. So we'll keep an eye on that. Then we had the clip a couple days ago, in which Bradley Beale professed that they tried to trade. The Bucs did Milton for Beal before he went to the Suns. Not a great situation. Probably not what you want to hear as you're kind of dying on your shield for this team. He also apparently took a couple of his teammates to SpaceX, which, you know, not great these days. I don't know if you really want to be associated with Elon Musk, but that's up to you. I just, you know, in the postseason, and I thought, I think it was like

42 he had in that OT game against the Pacers. It was like, God damn, Chris Milton. I can still get it after it after all these years. It was great to see that version of him step back up, but then you see the injuries start to pile up. He's just not the same player. And this is a team that is top heavy and relies on its top four to do a lot for them. So if you already lose that, if Brick Lopez is starting to show signs of aging, he's 36, I believe, this year. So it would be expected. So that's the stuff that really worries me, Rob. Yeah, I would worry less if they had the depth to actually ease Middleton in. And the way we're also talking about Janus, right? There are multiple players on this team at this point.

that need to be eased through this season. And the options to do that, in Chris Middleton's case, Torian Prince, who I think was a good get for the bucks under the circumstances, but let me tell you, he will not save you. That is not the way this works. He's playing the four now, man. I congratulate him and I look forward to seeing it. Pat Conantin is not the player he was a couple years ago.

Has not been that guy for a while now. Gary Trent Jr., I like, is streaky as all hell. and he will have awful, awful games where he cannot hit anything. And those are your best options. Those are the most experienced options. Can I ask you, Beasley or Trent Jr.? Oh, Trent?

Okay. It's not even close. It's not even close. Just checking. The fact y'all managed to loop Beasley into every single podcast is hilarious. It's just weird because we all have our things. Rob just picks like the fringiest guys

to really like stick in his craw. And I respect that about you. people just kept telling me he's like a really crucial important player who's going to mean something to these playoff teams and it's just not going to happen. I'm sorry. It hasn't proven itself to be the case. Gary Trent could be. I think he could be a guy who has like a huge playoff series who has some big moments. He can he can put a team over the top if it's the time of the year where he's hitting.

It's just a little bit less reliable than you might like. Yeah, I mean, he's, but he's a guy like teams know they have to guard at least, right? which again, like you put that around Dame and Janice. And, you know, again, your defense is going to be compromised. But like, if you are playing up to your very best potential on offense, like, that puts defenses in a bind. Like, teams have to account for that, right? And so, you know, I like the Trent thing.

I think Tori and Prince is like, you know, he's a nice guy to be playing like 14 minutes a game. You know, the idea that he would be crucial what you're trying to come. accomplish seems insane to me. And I, like, I hope that Doc gives these young guys like a Bochamp, you know, a chance to prove their medal, man. Come on, Doc. Yeah, it's not going to happen. Give them a chance, coach. I would love it. Honestly, like, if, look, if Doc is not going to play your young players, I thought that the books had a pretty novel draft strategy, which is draft guys who are so young, they will outlast Doc's buck's tenure. So, you know, at some point,

AJ Johnson will play basketball for the Milwaukee Bucks. I don't know when it was. be. And frankly, we're with this team as competitively right now. He probably should not be playing minutes. Yeah, I think those guys, though, are going to be so crucial to this team because I was looking at the guys that went out from this team last season. And it's a lot of guys that aren't playing basketball anymore, or if they are, it's overseas. Like Jay Crowder, Patrick Beverly, Danilo Gallinari, all played minutes for this team down the stretch and probably for Doc Rivers. They are no longer in the NBA as of right now. Malik Beasley obviously went to the Pistons, campaign also with the Knicks, not a crucial bench guy, I would say, unless they get really

dire there given their reserve situation. So if Trent, Prince, Dilan Wright even can give them something, that's going to matter more for a team like the Bucks. But again, this might be the classic case of like names on paper. What are they actually going to get from those spot? I think Trent is the one guy you would have hope for because he probably should have gotten a better deal elsewhere. This seems like a one year make good and maybe he can go somewhere else. After the fact, he's still pretty young, but I agree, Rob, he's, he's streaky, he's not reliable. Is that the type of guy you need from a lock solid fit spot on this team? Because they need consistency, more than anything, especially with these injuries and these older players. I think what we're narrowing down with

this team is they are quite good. They're not so good that you would consider them to be one of the definitive, like, favorites to win the East. Frankly, they're staring down a Celtics team that is just probably too versatile for where the Bucks are right now. A Knicks team that could be really awesome, a Sixers team that could be very overwhelming, even given the size that the Bucks have. Those are the facts on the ground this season. This is a team that is built to compete this season. This is not a team that has a bunch of young players

coming up the pipeline who have already proven themselves to be impressive prospects. It's hard to look at Milwaukee and think, oh, they're building towards something significant. The significant time is now, and they have to be good right now. Anything else on the Bucks? Any other players we missed here?

basically right off the roster. Yeah. I mean, shout out to Dillon Wright. I actually do think he's going to be a nice fit there. Wait, who's their backup center right now? Is it and just Pesitniks? I guess it's Janus or Portis. Yeah.

Would fall in that category. I assume they'll play more small with Janus at the center if they're talking about Prince playing the four, but I don't know. Yeah. I would hope so. I mean, Portis at the five is a huge problem defensively, and they just couldn't stop anybody. Did not work.

And even with that said, they still don't play Janus at the Five that much as like the true only big in lineups, or at least they have not historically. I think there's reasons for that, including ones we've kind of illuminated. It's a lot of pressure to put on him to have to cover up all of those gaps,

but that could be a really cool look for them in spots, in like a death lineup kind of capacity. Can you put Janus at the Five with some good spacing and let everyone cook? All right. Let's move along to, number eight, the Memphis Grizzlies, a team with a lot of guys. They do not have a problem like the Bucks do. They have so many guys. I think that the hype train is pretty much out of

control at this point about this team. And I am very high on them. Like you see John Morant back out there in the court. You're like, God damn, this guy's electric. Like, there's no way that this team could be so bad. Also, Zach Eady instantly, like Jha has the muscle memory playing with the road graders like Stephen Adams. It's like, oh, here's that. Plus he has vertical spacing without ever having to jump. Like, I don't know if it's called vertical spacing if you just have to reach up as opposed to actually go vertical in the air.

I'm pretty high on what he could be in that lineup. Unfortunately, starting to already get the injuries. Yeah. It's already here. I can't believe we're doing this again. John Moran, sprained his ankle for what seemed like getting hit with a pass by the ball on his ankle, and he sprained it that way. Jared Jackson Jr. Hamstring, strain.

Both of those guys expected to be back by the season opener, but Vince Williams out at least four weeks with the stress reaction in his tibia, Gigi Jackson, out three months with a broken right foot. Those are the depth pieces where I was finding a lot of my confidence in addition to the starting five where it's like, this team is super deep.

They have a lot of options. Like they could play through injuries. Brandon Clark, we should mention, got a little bit of burn toward the end of last season, but coming back from his own pretty serious injury. And so I'm starting to worry a little bit more that maybe this is going to be a good team, but maybe not so much the electric top four

competing for the top seat in the West sort of team. Let me put you in the spin zone. Oh, okay. What if all of these early season injuries, significant though they are, are less important than getting John Morant back up and running as the full speed organizer and driving force of an offense.

And so, yeah, some of the pieces are out to start the year potentially. certainly some of them guaranteed Gigi Jackson's going to be out for a bit but if Jock can get there and get off running and get this team going from the start there's even like a little less to sort through

as far as the depth of this team and how everything needs to be to be collated and triage he can just be the best possible version of himself and incorporating back into the remnants of a team that he remembers more so than the version of the team that the Grizzlies ultimately kind of became

over the course of the last year. If John's back to playing like an MVP candidate, which like before all of this crazy stuff started happening, that's what he was. He was an MVP candidate level of player. If he's back to doing that, I'm not worried about G.G. Jackson's foot injury. That's just how it goes. I'm always worried about G.G. Jackson's foot injury, but I take your point. When he comes back, it'll be great. But Jod just elevates everything Bain is doing and everything.

Certainly, Jaron Jackson, the third is doing on offense. Or is he junior? He's junior. You're always throwing in extra Jaron Jackson. Yeah. You know these guys, man, Marcus Moore is the senior, the junior. I don't know who these dudes are anymore.

He just elevates what the other guys do so much, man, by his presence and his relentlessness. And so if Jaws out there, you know, healthy, And he's giving it a go. And then it's not just what he does, you know, on the core in terms of the gravity and his freaking playmaking and court vision, which is just the most still continues to be the most underrated part of his game. It's just the attitude that these guys, like,

it's tough being that arrogant bunch of shitheads that these guys are to their core. When Jaws not out there, like, Desmond Bain doing his whole, I'm a tough guy, flexing on people act. It's just not the same when Jaws not out there. Yeah, so they're getting smart back. He's actually going to play this year after only showing up for a couple early season games. Bain seems like he's ready to take off like probably the leaping pad that everyone expected last year when Morant wasn't out there. I think he's going to settle back into a better role. Like this is a good goddamn team and they were good before last season fell apart for them. And if

anything, like they've added a couple additional guys on top of that. Like, yes, Gigi Jackson, Vince Williams, not being there. A little concerned because they are pretty thin at the wing spots. It gets to Luke Conard very quickly and we've seen how that's gone. But, you know, like Luke Conard, though. Like, as far as reserve options go, I don't mind that. He's always the guy that you think is going to be more important than he is. You know, like you can't rely on him in a playoff series type of guy, but I like him. And if we're comparing like, nine, Men, sure. Like, he's, he's definitely going to be at the front of the pack there. Your guy, Santiago Al-Dama, also around there. So there's a lot to like about this team.

They can only be so bad. I think, Rob, I think the question is, like, just where does it stop when it comes to how good they can be? For the record, Luke Canard is one of the best shooters in the league and has done very well in the playoffs. I just want to put that, I want to put that down. He's not done well in the playoffs. He cannot play defense. Well, that is a, that is a slight issue. But for the Grizzlies, less of an issue. And I think, ultimately that's one of the reasons I came out of last season, insane as it was for all sorts of reasons, ultimately pretty bullish on this group. And it's like, the Grizzlies had no reason to take last year as seriously as they did and to take games as seriously as they did. And they turned out an above average defense despite all of that, despite all of the injuries, despite everything

that was happening in their orbit, they almost like cannot help but be a good defensive team. And that gives a little bit of cover to guys like Luke Canard. Or, you know, Santiago Dom is a little bit better than Luke Conard on defense, but me not that much better. Even John Morant, who was no stopper himself. Let's remember this dude was getting put in the rim by Patrick Beverly. Like, they need help and they need backup. And that's where Jaron Jackson is clearly one of the most important members of the team. But I think overall the structure and the energy and the ethos that they play with is to guard and to guard aggressively.

And if they have all that going for them with this depth, I just think they're going to win a lot. lot of games. I was looking up some stats on Jaron Jackson Jr. before. He apparently had the 13th highest usage rate in the entire NBA last year. Not what you want. But if he can translate some more of that ball handling into being able to like attack a closeout every now and then like that's obviously going to help exponentially. So like if they grow in incremental ways in addition to getting job back, I agree. This could be pretty good because by the way, just to remind you, they play 33 different guys last season in what was an absolute mess.

Yeah, threatened for the record, I believe, if not won the record for how many players they played in the season. It was up there, for sure. As far as the Jaron Jackson usage goes, like, in fairness to him, a matter of necessity, more so than like him having delusions of grandeur.

Yeah. We should talk about at Zach Edy, though, because I have to say, going into the draft, I was skeptical about where this guy would end up, up. I kind of saw him more as like a sixth man change it up sort of post score. And he just seemed to fall in the exact perfect situation to leverage what he is, which is just a giant human who is fairly mobile for his size. I don't think he's going to be winning any track meets, but you know, he can get up and

down the court quickly enough in order to play next to a John Morant. Just the early returns, I thought like he fits immediately. And I have to wonder, like, not only is he going to be good for this team, like do we have to start considering him more for like the rookie of the year conversation because the field is going to be pretty depleted you know we can talk about some other guys but oh you're not you're not juice for the risha shay like you were in our text last night yeah oh i don't know if you want to talk about that but like hell yeah i am like you look to be pretty good are yeah are you are you ready to go on record as being pro rhesash yes pro risha shay i don't know if he'll be rookie of the year because the reason i like him is he seems like he fits that in between

It's a role. Yeah. Like, it just seems like he plays the right way. And the shooting is coming around there. And so, like, I can see it. Um, Rook of the Year. I think it's Eady or, I mean, if you want to talk about Reed Shepard, like, that guy's fucking electric also has a mustache now.

So it might be my favorite player in the league. I would say, Jim, not see what's going on above my lip right now. Oh. And solidarity with Reed. Yeah, of course, man. You getting ready for the cowboy outfit when the spurs make the plane? You just grow your own? Did you all see that Bruce Brown gave all of the Raptors cowboy boots?

Love that. Great teammate. That's great. Incredible. I mean, one of the few players in the league with, I believe, still an active Stinson sponsorship. So he's hooking it up. Bruce Brown knows how to live.

But what do you guys think about rookie of the year? Zach Edy. I will say this. I think he could be in the mix, if only because there aren't a lot of obvious candidates. I worry he won't have the counting stats, but I could see him being a rookie contributor at the high levels. I bet you he shoots it at like 60% field goal shooting this year, just like a bunch of cleanup, a bunch of dirty work buckets. What I'm interested to see is the Grizzlies when they were at their best a few years ago, they were mauling guys on the offensive rebound on the

offensive glass. I wonder if Edy is going to be able to insinuate himself in that way. Like actually play like he's bigger than everybody else in the NBA. And if he's doing that, that just makes him such a more dynamic and play. Because it's like, all right, we're losing the sort of foot speed that you kind of need in the modern NBA, even at the center position. But this guy is going to destroy any freaking switch that you try to put on him. Like, don't think you're going to put some 6'6 guy on Zach Edy, and he's not going to just put an elbow in that guy's grill.

And he's also going to mall these guys on defense. I mean, excuse me, on the offensive glass. And so that's what I'm interested to see if he can actually play big in the NBA. I think the grizzlies are set up, especially when Jackson is healthy, to do that, to hunt offensive rebounds, to send Edie to the glass. Because one of the things that Jackson does really well is the blocks that he gets come in very, like, non-traditional circumstances. He can be the sort of hang out in the lane rim protector if you want him to do that,

but he's going to get chase downs. He's going to be an open court menace, challenging. and altering and chasing down shots. And so when you have one of your bigs going on the offensive glass, the other one, one of the best shot blockers in the league, booking it back from the three-point line to protect the basket, that's a formula that makes a lot of sense to me and a formula that I think is part of the reason why E.D. to me,

is not just in the mix for rookie of the year. He would be my pick for rookie of the year. I think between him is sort of a known quantity. Like, we know how he fits with this team and what he's going to do. And most importantly, the fact that he's going to play. Reed Shepard has a lot of competition for minutes by comparison. And there's going to be nights where he probably gets squeezed out a little bit. But Zach Edy is a huge part of what Memphis is doing.

And supposing he can be healthy and hang through the season, I think the counting stats are actually going to be pretty respectable. And as Wazzo, do, the efficiency is going to be off the charts. The West is getting bigger. And it feels like the Grizzlies are huge, you know, even by comparison to some of those other teams. Maybe not as big as Denver, for instance, but also maybe a little bit more mobile in the fact that, like,

if Edie can move a little bit more, you know, I could definitely see it. It reminds me a little bit of what the Thunder have going with, with Hartenstein and, and Chet Holmgren. Right. That's exactly. And if Brandon Clark is right, man, and I really do hope he is because he's one of the more fun and exciting guys to

watch, like his energy and motor are just second to none. I love watching him who? Like, that's a really dope big man rotation, right? Jaron Jackson, Clark, and it's versatile. Like, if you need, you need to handle a big bruising. I know I get it. There's way less of those guys in the NBA today than they used to be.

But sometimes you need that and you need to throw a different pitch. Like the fact that they got those three guys, you know, if they want to get in a track meet with people in terms of, you know, being more switchable or, you know, being more aggressive in terms of attacking the pick and roll and attacking the ball handle on a pick and roll. They have options for that. They can be a drop team against worse shooting teams. Like, I love the sort of the diversity of options that they have at the big man position.

And they're going to need that. I think they are a big team in the front court. One of the things we haven't really talked through is they're going to have to figure out a way to play Bain and Jha and Marcus Smart together a bunch. And even if you want to put Vince Williams in that group, Vince Williams is long, but he's six-four-ish. Gigi Jackson has legit size and is kind of in a different category, but those guys, Luke Kinnard, Scotty Pippin Jr., who should get real minutes this season,

I thought he was one of the bright spots last year. Good NBA player. That's a lot of guards. And I think we're going to see a lot of three-guard lineups out of the grizzlies. So they're going to need the four-five size. Let's keep it moving. Number seven, the Philadelphia 76ers, appropriately at seven.

I feel like I need a cold shower before we talk about this team. Yeah? Because I find it really hard. not to get super excited about what they have. Like, I just can't think of a team where the big three aligns so perfectly, not only in terms of positions, but also where the players are at the right stage of their careers in order to make sure that everyone is getting what they need. Like, Paul George, I feel like the Clippers did him a great service by telling him to go away because he ended up in the exact perfect situation for his point of his career where it's like, yeah, you could still. be one of the superstars on the marquee, but if Maxie is actually our second best player, and you kind of work the in-between game, like, we'll pace you along. And then you'll still get

your moments and whatnot. We'll still use you in all the great wing play that you can give, particularly on the defensive end. Like, that is incredible. And then if Embedde is healthy, which is obviously a big if, which we're probably going to talk about it, nauseam. It's just like, everything falls in line so well. I thought like the work they did on the fringes was very good, even like Gersanya Besseli coming off the Olympics like let's go with this team but then it's just like I'm in I don't know like the injuries first and foremost but also teams that come together like this don't usually have great success in the first season and so like I'm I'm trying to balance like my enthusiasm with like what history has taught us about big three teams

this is the frothiest I've ever seen Justin about a team that is not the Boston Celtics that should tell you something about the six years. prospects this year? I think what they've built is pretty impressive when you look at it on paper in terms of the logic of what they're going to do. Like the not so subtle secret is that Maxie's actually going to be steering the ship here. He's their main like, all right, I can get down the hill. I can get by guys like, Paul George can't really get by people the way that he used to.

He just doesn't turn the corner on guys anymore. Whatever, he's 34 years old. But when you think about when they do go to him for shot creation or they do go to him just make a wide open shot, which will be generated around what Maxie and Joella doing on the two men, and you think that Tobias Harris was employed to do these jobs last year, I understand why Justin gets excited. Like, it makes sense.

And then, you know, having Caleb Martin and Kelly Ubrey and even KJ. Martin, who I've always been pretty high on, Like, I think having those guys running around and doing a lot of the dirty work as wing defenders and just like go sit in a corner and be happy doing it and just make a wide open corner three. Like the logic is there. Like this team makes perfect sense. I just think it's just a health thing is like, come on now. Yeah.

Come on now. I think they're on paper championship would be. challenged just by the fact that it is stacking variable on variable on variable and the health thing is the top line. Variable or variable? These are just regular variables. You can't use the word variable anymore.

We're going to have to strike it from group chat. Next week, baby. Yeah. Joel's health is the clear one. Paul George's health cannot be taken for graded. More than half of this rotation has changed from last

season. I think largely in very good and positive ways, but there's no continuity whatsoever. And frankly, I'm not sure there's ever been like a normal Joel and Bede Sixers offseason during his entire career. This is just the way things go over there. On top of that, you got a lot of players who can get very streaky, not just in shooting

but in total performance. Caleb Martin has proven to be a very up and down guy. Kyle Lowry at this stage in his career, quite an up and down player. They have some of that strewn throughout the team in a way that I would say a lot needs to break right for the Sixers to make, say, an Eastern

Conference finals run or better, but they have literally everything they need for those breaks to happen. It's just going to be a roll of the dice. I think this might sound hyperbolic, but I do believe this. If Maxi takes the leap to be a superstar from an all-star, I think it might swing the entire title race this year. And I don't think the step is so much of a leap as it is just like a half measure at this point. If he made one more bucket last season, he would have been in the top five in scores in the entire NBA. That's insane. he somehow made the jump from 16.9% to 26.7 assist percentage while lowering his turnover percentage. Yeah. Which is like exactly what you want. And now he's moving a lot off the ball. And that's probably going to be to great use, especially with Paul George getting in there. How much of that was just feeding the ball to dwell and Bede as opposed to James Hardin being that one. I have a stat for that as well. 66 assists to Embed the previous season, 108.

the next season. But you could definitely tell this guy is making higher level reads when he has the ball on his hands. He feels like he's playing with more confidence and just command of the court again, preseason basketball, et cetera, et cetera. But like, he just seems like he has it. Also had a really good quote about how he's now putting his hair back. And so now he has an unobstructed view of the court. So all these things combined. The Alfred Payton. I think so. Yeah. And you know what? I'm here for it. I believe it. And so, like, Like, this can very clearly be like a 28 per game score, like an eight assist guy. And all of a sudden, we're talking about Maxi being like a guy in this league.

And if that happens, the Paul George part falls in line, then maybe you could pace out and bead a little bit more, which is what they're talking about doing, which they probably should have done five years ago, but that's fine. Like, it just, it all makes sense to me. And so I like, I don't know. I just have a lot of faith in what this team can be. Can it be that in the first year? I'm not sure.

But there's a lot to like here. I'll be watching Paul George, man, and the approach that he takes because I think he wants to be more hands-off with this team from what we've heard him saying than he was, then he had to be with the clippers, right? He just had to be their freaking best distributor, ball handler, all of that, like one-on-one score. He had to be there everything. And again, like, if you look up the lineup data, none of those lineups and, like, you know, Hardin and Kauai with no Paul George or Kauai. Like, no, Paul George was the turnkey to everything. He was holding that shit together.

But on defense too. And, you know, like, Paul George has a lot of fans amongst his peers. And, you know, everybody laughed at the kid in Charlotte for saying Paul George was his goat. And I think rightfully so because that's just preposterous. But there's a reason for that. And it's like on offense, obviously he's just hyper-skilled in terms of his footwork, his ball handling, the jump shooting, the flight. Just everything he does is so clean and technically sound. But on defense, he applies that same attention to detail, man.

This guy is in every single spot that he needs to be. His anticipation, his instincts, you know, for when to jump a passing lane or something like that is crazy. And then even at his advanced age, the different players that Paul George can credibly guard on a court, I just think it's going to bring so many things together, you know, to make this thing beautiful. Now that he's freed up to not be the fulcrum of everything, he just has to stay on the court, which just has not been the case for years now. Yeah, I think as far as stars go, Paul George is just one of the most reliable defenders in that cohort in the league. He's not exceptional in like a defensive player of the year,

Janice or Embed kind of capacity, but uniformly very, very good and uniformly tries and invest in that stuff. And that, I think that speaks to the balance of what you're talking about, Justin. You have Maxie who is ready to explode and is already shown a lot and is just such a great blow-by option. You have Paul George as this mediating intermediate player who can play off the ball, on the ball, guard all kinds of players.

And then you have Joel Embed, who we probably have not said enough about, probably the single most overwhelming scoring force in the league right now. And there is just nothing you can do with him when he is healthy and going. And I think that's part of the reason why he gets the criticism that he does is he has every reason and ability to dominate all the time. And how he paces that out over the course of the season is something we're all looking forward to watching because we want like peak Joelle Embed in the playoffs wrecking people.

We all want it. We're all waiting for it. I think the reason people get a little curmudgeony about it is because we've waited a long time and we've had very few chances to actually see it. This is the season. You know, it's setting itself up so that Embed is the ultimate Trump card, at least in the East, where it's like, if you have Porzingis, if you have Carl Anthony Towns, so I'll guard this mother, this giant motherfucker in the post and see what you can do there.

You know, I get why people are upset with Embed, you know, the postseason track record is what it is. I thought last year I was a little surprised he got dinged so much because like he was clearly injured. It reminded me a lot of like when we go into a season saying a team should tank. And then when we watch them tanks, you're like, this is a disaster. How can they be taking so badly? And it's just like he was clearly hurt. He wasn't right. He was playing through a bunch of stuff, including like his face like melting in real time. And so like I kind of give him a pass for that one. I think this is the make good season. If like he doesn't make something out of this, especially as they're pacing him, especially as he has Andre Drummond, the best

rebounder in the world apparently back there in order to spell him when he needs to be spelled. Then I'm ready to bury him. But like, this is shaping up to be like the perfect season for him to have the season we've always wanted from it. And Maxie is his best teammate ever. I think the only person that comes close to this is that lone Jimmy Butler season, which Jimmy was excellent. But Maxie's the greatest teammate this guy has ever had.

We don't even need to bring up the light skin guy from Australia. Like, this is easily. This is easily his greatest teammate, man. And the fact that it's being buttressed by a guy like Paul George, again, like you have to be excited if you're a Sixers fan for what they can potentially accomplish this season. I have this down as the essential question. Who's the most intriguing non-Paul George Summer? addition. Just to give you the list of new guys on this team, we got Caleb Martin, we got Andre Drummond, we got Gershon Yibiselli, you got Reggie Jackson, you got Jared McCain, there's

probably seven more than I'm missing. Which one jumps out to you, Was? Easily Yabusele. Hell yeah. And it's because he damn there ruined my goddamn summer in that first half against Team USA. I was like, is this really, is this seriously happening? This guy's going to make every single jump shot and one physical play. I was like, yo, this guy is something. The fact that he got signed directly after that, you know, I think spoke to that performance, man. I just love the physicality and toughness that he brings.

I love that idea, man, that, like, he could bring that mentality to this 60s group who, you know, like, nobody who's thought of these guys is, like, the toughest team in the NBA, right? And so I just like that component, man. Call me old school, man. I like the Charles Oakley, Anthony Mason, Davis, boys. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think he could bring that element with, like, legitimate skill to the lineup, man.

So that's who's most intriguing to me. And as I mentioned, I've been a KJ Martin fan since the Rocket's days. Like, I just like his pep as well. The same stuff. Like, he's really athletic and he brings some skill to it. And I think if he can just be deployed in terms of, like, Like, there's a suit, like with the Rockets, he didn't have a super defined role because like the nature of a team

that's like got all these young guys and you want to see what they can do. Like there wasn't a lot of discipline. There, I think if he can be like, if, if the coach can be like, listen, this is all we're asking you to do. And he can be deployed that way. I'm excited to see what he can do. Yeah, KJ fits into this mold with this team where there's a really interesting balance of guys who play slow and guys who play fast,

guys who play in order and guys who create chaos. in a way that I think is healthy. If you lean too much in one direction, you can just go off the rails or become very kind of stayed too quickly. And so the Sixers, because of guys like KJ Martin, because of some of the athletes

that they have on their roster, are in a position to be interesting all the time and be kind of a live wire, unpredictable team. Yabu Saley has to be the guy here, though. I think the combination of him not being in the league for five years and changing his game and his body in the meantime.

And so you have the dual interest of, can he, like, what kind of NBA player is, now and then everything we just saw him do in the Olympics that was talked about. I can't wait to see how he fits with this group. I'm concerned, though, because the track record of guys overseas that popped in the Olympics or in Fiba basketball coming over and never really matches what you'd hope for, like the last one I could really think that actually did.

It was probably Rubio, but even he was a muted version of like the electric, you know, Jason Kidd future of the point card position sort of guy that ultimately became. But I think Yabaseli is falling into a very nice role for himself, where if he could just be the pop off the bench to use his physicality and his ability to get downhill, surprisingly enough, against second units. Like, I think he fits a role. And if he could do that, I think he'll instantly become a helpful member of this team and also a fan favorite. Yeah, he's not being asked to be who he was for Team France.

It's to play a role. It's to be, you know, like, to your point about, like, the international players, it's much more like later career Louis Scola or something. Like he doesn't have to be the star of the international team. He has to be the guy who gives the Sixers good minutes. And they've been looking, especially for good backup minutes. I think I do want to give a little bit more of a shout to, as you said, self-proclaimed best rebounder in the world, Andre Drummond.

Back for another tour. Yeah, back for another tour with the Sixers. Good for him. This is a team that even though they have a dominant center was a shit defensive rebounding team last season. and so if Drummond can help shore that up at all for the second unit, that's a boon. If he can make the non-Juel minutes sing at all or survivable at all, as all Sixers fans know, that is a huge, huge deal. So I hope he can do that this time around.

He actually, I thought was pretty damn good for the Bulls last year relative to what that team was and what he was asked to do, but gave them some really good minutes. Very good backup who could spot start whenever you need him to. I should mention Caleb Martin here, if only because he's going to play the role of like Shane Batier for the big three heat where it's like LeBron's playing the four. It's like no, Caleb Martin is actually going to be doing the dirty work on the defensive end. And then maybe Paul George picks up the guy late in the game, but like if that guy is

the scrapper that he was for the heat, if he could give them a little bit of feciness on the defensive end while still being able to stretch. Like I think he fits perfectly in what they're looking to do there. Just the fact that they were able to go out and get him at his dollar amount I thought was a pretty big boon. And frankly, like as the Clippers deal with this PJ Tucker situation and it turns out that he might only play 28 games in total for them all of last years and then get let go this year.

It's like just goes to show you that like the hardened deal still paying dividends for the Sixers where it's like if they had that $11.6 million on the books like they never would have been able to do a lot of what they're doing including getting Caleb Martin in there. All right. Anything else for the Sixers? Did we mention that they got Eric Gordon? We did not. No, I forgot him.

He's in the mix. I think he is also in this category of guys who are a little streakier than you would like. And of course, at his age, you know, there's some defensive limitations just in terms of mobility. But there are worse veterans to roll into the lineup for spacing. And certainly a guy who has to be guarded, which is something that the Sixers have not had enough of historically. And if things are going right, we won't see a single minute of Reggie Jackson this season. All right. number six last team on the docket for today who fell into the six spot late in the process

as a result of the Carl Anthony Towns trade. I've been going over and over on this trade since we even talked about it, which was a couple of days removed from the actual trade. And I have to say, I still think the Knicks did a good job of getting towns. But here's where I fall on this. And this is our essential question is I don't know if the wolves got better as a result of this trade. Justin, you know the wolves did not get better. Yeah, okay, I know that they did not get better. But I also don't know that they didn't get worse. And so are we sure that like the wolves are worse without towns and they didn't build towns in the aggregate, shouts to Billy Bean with like a Nazreid, the shooting from Dante DiVincenzo, the flexibility with Julius Randall.

I'm like, I don't think that much differently about the wolves now than I did a couple days ago when they had towns. That's where I'm kind of netting out. you don't know that they got better, but you don't know that they didn't get worse? They didn't get better, but I don't know. Can we just cut a couple negatives out of here? But they didn't get worse.

You're saying they didn't get better, but they didn't get worse. So you think they are kind of more or less standing in place from the team they were last season? Yeah, we probably should have just said that. That's the bit. I think if they are the team they were last year,

it's going to take more work to get there. that's kind of what worries me about them is Kat is not a perfect player but he is a more streamlined fit and I say more because more is relative than Julius Randall is and the spacing that Kat provides is easier to deploy in a lineup

than what Julius Randall is going to be asked to do and so if you have two guys who admittedly both of their decision making can be spotty both of their ability to judge the moment and know when to jump in can be spotty but one of them can shoot much much better than the other And I think also important, towns gave them a piece of their identity in terms of how big they were playing and the options that they had.

And if they're going to find that with Julius Randall, they're going to have to reinvent it. I don't, I think the wolves got meaningfully worse. Like, I don't even think this is a question to me. I'm not saying that Julius Randall individually isn't still a high quality NBA player. I think specific to the fit on this team, like he's a. supposed to be doing all these jab steps and fadeaways as Rudy Gobert hangs out in the paint. And I get it. He played a bunch of minutes with Hartenstein and Mitchell Robinson, who aren't stretch bigs by any means whatsoever, right? I just don't know why I'm letting this

guy handle the rock when I got Aunt Edwards. And so if he's playing mostly off of the ball and not being allowed to do, you know, to dribble, dribble, shot creation stuff, what is he actually doing? We know it's not shooting. Well, it's shooting, but not making. And so, like, I just, and then the playoffs, forget about it.

Like, these lineups are not, there's no logic to what Rudy, you know, and Julius Randall lineup. Like, that doesn't make any sense in the postseason. And, you know, I think. in the regular season, they can still be, I think they will still be one of the league's best

defenses in the regular season, but I just don't see how they make up the difference on offense when it comes to the playoffs. Let me be your phone of friend, Justin. Let me get back in your corner for a little counterpoint to say that in the regular season last year,

the wolves were much better overall with Ant and Kat together than when Ant played without him. In the playoffs, that completely flipped. And and working without Cat was one of Minnesota's best looks. And I think what's hard for me is like a lot of that is Nas Reid

being a very good player and fit for them. And Julius Randall complicates that picture. Yeah. I almost wonder if we negate the Randall part of this. So Randall doesn't exist on this team? Negate the all, all star, all NBA guy who is going to play 20 minutes a game.

He's going to play more than that, I would guess. That is what complex. complicates things, but I do wonder if they're best set, if they close games with Reed in that spot, does everything click into place? We're still not sure what role Randall plays for this team. I will point out just briefly that this is an odd season. So this is 2025, which means that Randall will probably be able to hit threes because for some reason he can only hit threes in odd seasons. Like go look that up. It's one of the weirdest little statistical wrinkles in the league. So maybe he comes around and plays bully ball, but like, I wouldn't be mad if he would.

was like a sixth man for this team and Reed was the guy who is playing the four most of the time and you're working DeFincenzo and like that to me is a pretty good team. I also think this is a conversation that really depends on where you start with the wolves. If you saw them like I did is like maybe the fourth best team in the West going into the season like then I'm not going to change them all that much. If you thought they were going to be two or three, maybe it's a different conversation for you. But like I think they could be still pretty good if not elite in the West this year. Julius Randall is not playing a six-man role on this team.

This guy is trying to get paid. I think logically, you know, it would make sense that like, yo, man, like, we're going to de-emphasize this guy, but like, he's an all-star player for whatever that means. You know, he's made third team all. Like, the coach can't come in and say, yo, we're completely de-emphasizing you. And by the way, hopefully you get a mid-level exception on your next deal. Like, that's not going to play.

Like, it's just not. Like, he's going to have to get minutes. That's what, like, if we lived in a different kind of world, like not the NBA world where egos and stuff like that come into play where they could just de-emphasize this dude and be like, look, Nas read makes more sense for what we're trying to do here. We're going to let you, you know, cook against bench units and all of that and let you be happy and eat those kind of scraps.

Okay, cool. But we know that's not going to happen. He's going to play, like Rob said, 30 plus minutes a game. And it's going to be clunky in terms of fit. And that's where Randall's contractual reality is kind of a double whammy because he does have every reason financially as was laid out to want to play more and want to do his thing and show off what he can do to potential suitors. he also, because he only has one year under contract

and then a player option, like the vehicle to financial flexibility for the wolves here depends on him not being a part of the team. And so one of the big returns of Carl Anthony Towns, a player who admittedly is... He might not be on the team next year. He might not be on the team. And so I really like Dante DiVincenzo.

I think he's a good fit for the wolves. Randall's a very complicated one who may be gone very quickly. And yeah, Towns is hard to trade. But even with that understood, I'm still like underwhelmed by this being the package. Yeah, I don't disagree with that. That was pretty surprising until this day. It's like, oh, man, Towns only went for that. Randall's just, the situation is messy.

But like, if you find a way to mitigate his impact both on the court and then also like in the mix, like in the chemistry mix, I think it makes sense. Like, can we trade Julius Randall somewhere? Who wants Julius Randall? Nobody. That's the point. I like Justin's explanation. If you find a way to mitigate all the stuff, everything else looks great.

You pretend this guy doesn't exist. You'll be fine. If we're going to talk about it in this way, I think we should. Like the most have a lot to figure out. What it is is a vote of confidence. I think in two guys in particular, Nas Reid, who we've talked about, being a meaningful part of the team,

being able to replicate some of what Kat gave you at the very least. And Anthony Edwards, If you're going to trade away a meaningful part of the core from a team that just went to the conference finals, you're saying, one, Ant is so clearly the guy that we have time and space to remodel this team around him a little bit, and he can still carry us pretty far.

And two, that he is not so reliant on Carl and Anthony Towns for spacing or a player like that for spacing, that he can make do with less than ideal circumstances. And both, as far as I'm concerned, are pretty fair bets for Ant as a prospect, and who he is right now as a player. Like, that guy is proven and electric and very impressive. Yeah, I mean, this is shaping up this season as a whole, a referendum on towns.

And now I think he's going to be pretty good with the Knicks. I think they could leverage what he does very well. But I also think like the wolves just have enough to replicate most of what he brings. I think defensively, they have enough dogs on that team where it's like if Gobert can just lock down the paint. We have Edwards and McDaniels in order to send people out there. But Randall will be good at that when he's like into it. Like he'll be a good defender. Yeah. He's a big guy. Um, but and then like with the spacing, like I think Reed did such,

such a good job of that last year. It's like, again, they could rebuild him in the aggregate. And so I, I get the logic behind it. We'll see how it met's out this year. I do think it's going to be bumpy if they do indeed figure it out. And plus you throw in the fact that this seems like they're going to be playing two rookies in the mix here. Rob Dillinghan, number a pick. They traded a big pick for him in order to get him in there. I also think that's actually pretty nice way to integrate a guy like Dillingham who's incredibly small and is definitely going to have to play through entire season to get his feet wet, like having Divencenzhenzo in there to kind of almost like usher him into that role is nice. You don't have to force him there. Then like Taryn

Shannon Jr. had a really good summer league. In fact, I remember Isaiah Blakely, our producer, first night of Summer League was like, hey, Taryn Shannon had this big game. Like we should talk about it. I was like, I don't know. And then we kind of ignored it, but he has looked pretty good thus far. So shouts to Isaiah who flagged that in advance. Yeah, I think there's a decent chance he's going to be in the rotation, despite the fact that the wolves have a lot of good wing players. But I think there's going to be a Terran Shannon month where somebody's out and he comes in

and gives them like really, really solid, like respectable play in production from a rookie, which he just looks more NBA ready than a lot of these other guys, including Rob Dillingham. So, yeah, I like, as far as like tangential benefits, the trade go. Easing the backup point guard problem and responsibilities through Devenzo, through Julius Randall as a playmaker, those things are nice for them. I think ultimately I'm wondering, like, what is the best version of this Wolf's team look like?

Is it more or less the projected starting five with Randall stepping in for towns? Is it small ball with McDaniels at the four? Something that they historic, like, didn't do that much of because they were trying to play bigs together a lot of the time? Is it Nas and Gobert together in the front court? There's a lot of reasonable options. I'm just not sure which one is ultimately going to be the best one for them. I just hate the politics of the team. The politics are a mess. Dudes, you know, with powerful agents and like, you know, solid, like to decent reputations in terms of what they've accomplished. Like, they could mess this up quite easily. Like, it's not one of these things where, you know,

there's guys who you could just banish, just be like, all right, go sulk and go cry somewhere. We don't care. Like, I just don't know that they could do that with Julius Randall. So the politics become so tricky for me, which is why I have apprehensions about the trade, what they received back in the trade. But, you know, at the end of the day, like Carl Towns is owed $220 million over four years. They had to get off of that freaking deal. They're the Minnesota Timberwolves.

Right? Like, this is not the Yankees, okay? In the Steinburning years. Like, they got, they had to do it. And so if this is the price to, like, have this uneasy, sort of clunky thing for one year with Julius, I think it's fine. And last year, they made a bet that Aunt Edwards was a superstar. And I think they kind of were proven right about that in terms of being like, yeah, we have a win now program. We got a kid, even if he's 22, he's a freaking bona fide. star and I think they're doubling down on that bet in terms of what they believe and can do and accomplish. I think that's the key there. We could twist ourselves into knots about Julius Randall and Devenchenzo and whatnot.

If Aunt takes a step forward. If he's an MVP candidate, none of this shit matters. It probably doesn't matter. If he's taking even like a half step leap in terms of his playmaking, then it opens up all sorts of opportunities. Like could you close a playoff game with him and Devenzo in the back court? and so like maybe Randall or Reed gets in there. That could be super compelling.

Obviously it gets a little clunky though. If it can't be that driving force, if he's not making those right reads, if he doesn't have Conley there as a safety valve to take that over. I think that is just going to be the most important thing for this team. I was reluctant to think that he would do that this year in a single season. That's why I was, I had the wolves around this kind of vicinity before the cat trade, but I think it's going to happen just a matter of wet at this point.

Yeah. Can I name a couple guys? Of course. Joe Ingalls reunited with Mike Conley and Rudy Gobert, and it feels so good. That said, I kind of think they're going to miss Kyle Anderson's defense a little bit. Low key, like the second unit,

mucked things up, like so long he will unexpectedly block you or disrupt a pass from the middle of things kind of impact. Joe Ingalls can play the facilitator, sort of role for those second units and can give them some size if they want like a different look at the three four but ultimately is a very different kind of defensive player and i thought kyle anderson for as as complex a fit as he is in his own way was actually a pretty nice timberwolf

do you remember when joe ingles effectively retired like three years ago he had like a big old injury in utah they gave him a nice little send off i think they had to wave them in order to make some transaction work they brought him on to the broadcast and i remember watching that game it's like, oh, Ingalls, man, love Ingalls. Oh, it's so sad that he ended up like that. This is now his third team since that. He's going into his age 37 season, and he is going to be a rotation player in the NBA for a good team.

Like, that's insane. Shout to Joe Ingalls. Yeah. All right. Anything else on this team? Did we talk about, did we talk about Dante DiVincenzo enough? He's good. One of the best shooters in the world can pop off in a way that other kind of like

pure spot up guys can't, like has enough juice off the dribble, has enough creativity to his game, is not a complete sieve on defense. Going to be a good rotation player. Justin, you spotlit the, like, possibility of maybe he and aunt finishing games or finishing some matchups together as kind of a closing backcourt.

I think that's incredibly realistic for some of the opponents that could be on the wolf's docket. 40% from three on 8.7 attempts last year. Now, you'd expect some regression because that's insane to shoot that percentage on that sort of volume. Genuinely.

He now has two straight years. of hitting threes at around that rate. And so I think he had a little bit of a down year, I believe when he had that half season with the Kings. I think he's rounded into the player. Everyone kind of hoped he would be coming out of college. And he's really good on an awesome contract. So I get if he was the key to moving cat,

like getting him in addition to the draft pick and Randall seems like the biggest part of that. He's also now Wolverine on the bed staring at the picture of the Nova Nix that spurned him. You know, tough look for him. There's just a GQ article today about the Nova Nix, including Dante Divencenzo. Oh, no. Yeah, I started that on Instagram.

I can't wait to see the creative editing where it's like, Dante Divencenzzo would have thought this or may have been this right before it went to print. All right. So that's it for everyone except for the top five in the NBA. We made it. So check that episode out on Monday. still working on a holiday because that's what we do here. But check that out. We'll be back then.

Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll see you next time.