The Ringer NBA Show - Preseason NBA Power Rankings, Part 6 | Group Chat

Episode Date: October 14, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos return with the final edition of their annual power rankings. This time they rank the top five teams in the NBA. Knicks (03:34) Mavericks (28:38) Nuggets (41:28) Thunder (59:17) Celtics (01:09:39) The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Jessie Lopez Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did you know that scientific studies have found most people lie once every 10 minutes? In my new podcast, Truthless, I'm talking to people about the lies, they tell, from faking illnesses in high-pressure moments to making up stories on national TV. From Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network, I'm Brian Phillips. Listen to Truthless on Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, on O'Corpast. October 15th. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me as always

Rob Mahoney, Big Waz. We have assembled here for the dramatic conclusion of the preseason NBA Power Rankings Part 6 Part 6 of 6. I feel like this is when it gets real though. You know, this is like

the second half of Goodfellas. We had a good time. We committed petty crimes together. We talked about the Spurs. But now we have to turn on friends. So all that bullshit was sewing. Today we reap. Today we reap all of it, including, I'm sure, you know, whatever crimes we may have been guilty of along the way. Yeah, that was the origin story. What half of Goodfellas does Uncle Pauli tell Henry, you got to go home, kid.

You got to go home. We do have to go home. Six pods serving the entire league. It's a lot. I'm not going to lie to you, Justin. It's a lot. That's right. But here's the meat of it all. And I have to say this one was probably the toughest top five that we've ever had to assemble because the NBA just seems like it's more forsome at the top of the league than probably even in recent years where I think last year was a pretty heated debate, as you might recall. But this one, I feel like it's more margins that are separating teams one and three even. Yeah, I feel like most of these teams are pretty freaking close. I think Boston, who quite easily won the NBA championship last season, has to be considered in a tier of their own. But of the teams that are coming after them,

everybody is pretty close together, as far as I'm concerned. If the playoffs started tomorrow, right, and you asked me to pick a series between, say, the Knicks and the Nuggets, I think that would be a tough series for either team to win, right? And same if I said Dallas and Oklahoma, who played a really hard fought series in the playoffs last year. And so, yeah, man, these teams are really close together in terms of what their potential is to win a championship. And I think that's what's going to make this season so much fun to watch and pay attention to. So in Justin Verrier style, Tier 1, Boston Celtics.

Tier 2, no one. Tier 3, the other four teams in the top 5. Well, I don't want to spoil it. But the Celtics aren't even in my top tier, or they're not at my number one. Wait, really? Yeah. Well, I'd actually put them in the top tier, but I wouldn't, they are not my number one. I'm the one holdout on the Boston Celtics.

Yep. Wow. Because we grow. After a year of experience and good times and bad times, we grow as people, and I grow in my takes, you know? I'm flummoxed by this, but I guess we'll get there when we get there. We'll get there. Love it.

But first we got to start with the New York Knickerbockers. Number five, they flip places with the Minnesota Timberwolves who we dressed in last episode in part five at the end of part five. Nicks jump into the number five spot as a result of the Carl Anthony Towns trade. And I have to say first and foremost, as a society, as a basketball community, one of the best things we've ever done is the bodega cat nickname. Not only is it like very specific to New York culture, but it describes Carl Anthony, Towns in a way that it is just absolutely perfect and I've never seen someone crystallize it so well

as his nickname. What are you seeing in that related to cat? What are the attributes of Carl Anthony Towns the man and the basketball player that are cat like to you? Unpredictable. You know, always great when you see them

but you're not sure if it will pop out at any moment, you know? Just maybe in New York feels a little bit more like in the right environment as opposed to different. Like if you're a cat in the cereal aisle, a little different than like a cat

roaming the streets, you know, like in more of the suburbs. He's not a stray cat. He's a cat with a home. Yeah. That's right. That's right. Maybe we all be so lucky.

Yeah. But maybe that's just me. I feel like he is being embraced as much as cat can be embraced by New York at this point. Wise, you're the local on the scene. You tell a lot. So I think that's a funny thing about cat

and his game, like a bodega cat, It's very nice to look at. It's pleasant to observe. But I think the second you try to embrace it, don't pick up the bodega cat, don't you know. Do not pick up and try to caress that bodega cat, y'all. You will get your eye clawed out.

But yeah, I think Nick fans right now are cautiously optimistic. Obviously, everybody can see the talent. But from talking to everybody since I've been. back home here in New York is that Towns's reputation, his temperament, has been so the opposite of the identity that the NICs have cultivated in the Tibbs era of just like scrappy and blue collar and tough as nails

and like mentally tough and like, I guess, gritty, right? And that just hasn't been the descriptors we would associate with Carl Towns in his career so far. That doesn't mean that he can't take on the identity of the team. And that's why I really like the trade for the Knicks because there's a difference. And I talk about this a lot with Tray Young. He can't be somebody else while he's still with the Hawks. It's not going to happen.

Not with that same ownership that's been kissing his ass since they drafted him. Not with this. Like he's been a boy king there. And to get him to do something. else is going to be tough. I think the same could be said for Kat. Like, he was seen as the franchise savior in Minnesota, right?

And so that afforded him a certain level of cachet, and he could kind of do sort of whatever he want. To his credit, when they made the Rudy trade, they drafted aunt, like he embraced Ant becoming the new leader in vocal point. He embraced the Rudy thing and was like

one of the few people that would ever pass to Rudy. Like, he made adjustments in Minnesota, but I think coming into New York, where, like I said, he's probably the seventh most important voice in the building, you know, and he understands, like, it's on him to come in and fit. Like, you have to fit in, bro.

Yeah. You know, that's why I really like this thing for Kat, because I think why can't he be a chameleon and embrace a new, you know, attitude towards the game? I think there's going to be a lot of pressure to playing for the Knicks and playing in New York, but as you're saying was a lot of these guys who are former number one overall picks

who didn't turn out to be complete saviors for their franchises there's a relief in moving on sometimes and having that pressure lifted off of you. We saw it with Andrew Wiggins and Kat is going to be asked to do a lot more than Andrew Wiggins was in Golden State. He's more important structurally to what the Knicks are. But you would hope for a similar kind of release

where he can play a little bit looser where he doesn't have quite so much on his shoulders where he can be a star but it doesn't have to be the star. And I think that suited him well playing with Anthony Edwards, but I think it's going to suit him even better, getting out of that orbit where he grew up, a certain stage of his life,

and getting to start over a little bit. And to do it in a way that honestly, I think his teammates are going to love him, even if he is a very different personality, he is going to enhance what they do so much, and he's going to make their lives a lot easier. If you're Josh Hart and you're looking to crash the boards, playing with a stretch big like Cat is a dream come true.

Yeah, and let's be honest, too, there's a little bit of a honeymoon period going on here, too. It's like buying a used car, and it's like, man, I just bought a used jaguar. This is like the time of my life. But then you don't realize that the jaguar had like transmission issues in the past. Well, it's a jaguar, so yeah. Yeah, exactly. How many used jaguars have you bought? I don't know.

I was just trying to think of the right car. I was thinking of Mad Men. And I was like, oh, yeah, I remember. Yeah, yeah. What car do you think Carl Anthony Towns is? Do you want to go down this past? Honestly, Jaguars? I mean, Jaguars in the cat theme, so we're on point there.

Oh. It is a high-end luxury kind of brand and vehicle by skill set, but as you're alluding to, there's some issues that prop up now and again. I think the only difference there is like Cat, even though he has some quirks in his game, is generally pretty available and pretty good. Like, we'll show up in his way. I'd probably compare him to a G-wagon because he's a big man and it's a big car. Like G-wagon for me is just like, why?

Whenever I see one, I'm like, why did you do that? You know, and you can say that about Katz's horrible fouling in the playoffs, you know? Yes. Right now it's the deep threes and you're like, oh, my God, this large man is just firing away from down there. It looks so good. Let's get into the playoffs where he makes some boneheaded plays and let's take the temperature of New York. But right now, I think it works. I think you guys would agree that the starting five as currently constituted is pretty rock-solid.

The question that I keep thinking of as we get a couple weeks away from the initial trade is just like the depth, man. It's just like these guys are probably going to have to be playing high 30 minutes pretty much the entire season, especially as we got the news the other day that Mitchell Robinson won't be back until early January at the earliest. And so we're going to be riding the lightning for two, three months of the season at the very least. Yeah, the good news on that is you now have 83 game McHale Bridges, right? one of the Iron Men of the league and a guy who will show up and can play big minutes every night can play both ways every night.

The tradeoff is you also have O.G. Ananovi who picks up his bumps and bruises, tends to miss a lot of time, has been absolutely awesome for the Knicks when he's been out there. And you just hope beyond hope that he's going to be able to be out there to the degree that they're going to need

to get through the regular season. Have you heard what they're calling O.G. and McHale Bridges? What's that? Wingstop. I don't mind it. I don't mind it. Not as good, but we're doing good work in New York, I have to say. The creative executives out there are doing their stuff.

For SponCon, that's about as good as it gets. And look, personally, I think a brand that we all respect their work very much, Wingstop, you know, it's unimpeachable. I certainly do. Had a football Sunday two weeks ago where we ordered about a hundred of them things. Oh, my Lord. So good. MSG is the real no-flex zone, as we'll find out.

I hope not. I really hope to never hear that again. This is a really weird pod, but yeah, go ahead. No, but I think. I think overall the wings are the spots to highlight there as far as the depth goes. You would really hope you get something. And I think this is an area where given all the Knicks financial constraints at this point, like they are really up against it, cap and apron-wise.

And they are going to be searching, I think, all year for who their eighth and ninth rotation guys might be. And if Landry Shamick can give you some of that in the regular season, great. If campaign can give you some consistent minutes great. They're also very small. And you're going to need somebody who's at least a little more wing size to get through this. I think the bench depth is definitely why anybody would have been down on the deal, right? Essentially, they traded two big rotational pieces for one in return. And so that makes their lineup, you know, a little bit less agile and versatile because of that fact.

as I look up and down the roster obviously Deuce McBride is going to get a lot of burn and we talked about this when the trade went down but like don't you say a bad word about Deuce McBride no no no no I love Deuce McBride It's everything else everything else I was getting an earful from a Nick fan yesterday

you try to convince me he's a sixth man of the year candidate I think that's true you know you can be playing like 35 minutes a game I could be talked into it yeah but yeah campaign and Landry Shamman Like, that's, so many people have fallen down the Landry Shammit banana in the tailpipe. Like, it's been for so many teams, but here's the Knicks go again, trying it out for the fifth time of a contender thinking Landry Shamit was going to unlock something.

But, like, outside of that, it's like Jacob Topping, Kevin McCuller Jr. Have you ever heard of this dude? I think it's going to be a lot. I don't know if a lot of those guys are making the roster, but they might because the roster spots will be open. Somebody has to make it, though, Justin. Right. It's a lot of a Chua. It's probably going to be a lot of Sims at first.

And oddly enough, there are a lot of big men who are going to be as part of this rotation, probably playing out of True Senator. You're probably be seeing a lot of Atchua at 4, if only because they have to do that. So the margins are incredibly slim, but I think talking about the wings is a really good part here. only because we talked about Cat a lot in previous pods. I think McHill Bridges, all of a sudden, the forgotten guy on this team, I was really excited about what he could do in the mix

with the Nova Nix reassembled. I'm still pretty high on him. I do find myself wondering, Rob, and this gets into our essential question, what's a reasonable expectation for him? Because I thought in the previous iteration, maybe All-Star was a possibility, especially in the East,

where All-Star spots tend to be a little bit easier on the back end there. Now, maybe a little bit more crowded with Cat there. you'd assume maybe he gets the shine there. But I think he could be very good. And if anything, I think this is the perfect blend and perfect situation for the blend. Bridges is now between his Phoenix version and his Nets version.

Yeah, I think he could have an all-star level impact, but not all-star level numbers. And especially if the NICs end up getting two representatives as a team as good as them often does, you would think Kat would probably get that second spot if he plays up to his usual standards. But I think Mikhail could be just like a bigger, lankier, Derek White in terms of what he's bringing to this team.

in terms of the binding agent that he could be for the Nix, the shooting, the defense, the cutting, the facilitation. He really does have that do a little bit of everything skill set in a way that in and of itself, even if the cat trade had never happened, was going to take a lot of pressure off Jalen Brunson and was going to take a lot of pressure off OG Ananobe, who we know can be eager to do some of that stuff,

but can be a little bit robotic with it. Yeah, to me, he's obviously the obvious third score, right? He's the only other guy that you could say credibly has some level of one-on-one on-ball shot creation juice. Obviously, he did that to, you know, a disappointing effect last year in Brooklyn, but he was the number one option, right? Like, facing every team's best wing defender,

which he just proved to be ill-suited for that role. And that's fine. He's not going to be asked to do that with the Knicks. He's going to attack one-on-one, but only in the most, you know, advantageous opportune moments, right? So when it truly suits the lineup that's out there, he'll be asked to do that. And I think what's cool about that is, you know, Derek White is asked to do a lot of, like, point guard work, like actually facilitating and running the offense.

I think Bridges is going to be freed up to just be a complete and utter disruptor on defense, which I think is what's going to be most important because because Carl Anthony Towns is going to spend so much time being your backline defense, the wings are going to have to do the bulk of the defensive heavy lifting. And, you know, God bless the Knicks, they have wings that are capable of shouldering that level of burden in Ogeyana Nob and Mikhail Bridges. And so that's what I'm excited to see, to see what kind of rover he could be when he's not like guarding the primary, like he's not guarding Anthony Edwards. Like, OG's already doing that.

And then Bridges could be just like the sort of. of just free safety kind of guy, if you will. So that's why I'm excited to see what he does. I think that's more in line with what his impact is going to be. I don't think he's going to drop 22 points a game this season. That's not in the cards for him. But the fact that he's able to just embrace his strengths to the fullest extent, right? Like, whereas in Brooklyn, like, not to say he stopped guarding people, but the bottom

line is if you're being asked to prop up an offense, your defense is going to suffer. Your best thing is now diminished. It's still good, but it's not too its highest potential. And now I think he could just be the best version of himself with the way the Knicks are constructed right now. Well, and this is the arc for players like him. Play on a really good team young. Prove yourself.

Go to the bad team. Stretch out a little bit, but find your limits. And then come back to a good one. And you end up somewhere kind of in the middle where he's going to do more than he did in Phoenix, but he's going to do a lot less than he had to do in Brooklyn. I also think it's a boon for Josh Hart. who now all of a sudden is the least essential player offensively for the starting unit.

We expect to be the starting unit. And like there will be times probably in the playoffs where a shooting doesn't come around. You're like, ah, man, the spacing is a little more cramped than it should be. We can't go full blown five out. And so like that might start to creep up. Or we're talking about like for people problems. Let's be honest. And like if you're just giving him an opportunity, just fly around and be like the Tasmanian devil for this team on both ends.

Like he's going to make plays. Like they did it last postseason. they literally ripped the first round series away from the 76ers. He's going to keep doing that again. If he's healthy, because again, he's another guy who's going to be counted on for high minutes. And frankly, he probably loves that shit. He probably wants to play 45 minutes a game. But he just, like, he clicks into place a little bit more here.

If he's just, like, not the, if you're not counting him for, like, the skill and nuance, and you can get that from your center position, quite frankly. Yeah. And, like, not only does that suit his game better because Josh Hart, as we know, is not an on-demand score. in quite that way, even though he has shown in the playoffs, he can do it on occasion. I just think it suits him that the less focal he is, the less you are going to pay attention to him,

and the more he is finding all these creases, finding all these opportunities, digging stuff out of nowhere, because your head is turned, because that's Crown Anthony Towns, and that's Jalen Brunson, and that's O.G. Annanobie, and that's McHill Bridges. And, oh, shit, Josh Hart just, like, worked us over

for four straight possessions because we were paying attention to everything else. So, funny thing about Josh Hart, as it relates to Justin's mortal enemy JJ Reddick when they were last on JJ's pod

JJ was kind of razzed him he was like I love Josh to death he's one of my favorite players but the guy can't shoot right

and he was making front of him and JJ was like bro do not worry I'm going to work with you in the off season on your shooting like he made that promise

to him on the podcast right obviously he didn't because he got eyes by the Lakers but I won't I wonder if Josh Hart made that a priority in the offseason, man.

Like, bro, you're going to be counted. You're going to get a bunch of open standstill threes. Can you be relied upon to make a few of them, man? Like, that will just blow the top off of what the Knicks could do. If he could just be, like, consistently at 35 and a half percent. Yeah, I think that consistently is the part. Because, Justin, he hit shots. It just kind of ebbs and flows with him.

And nobody expected him that there was a reason he was wide-ass open, Rob. He's going to be wide-hats open again. Yep. For sure. So 31 in the regular season. 37 in the postseason.

I think he's just one of those guys where he is, dare I say, a gamer and you just expect him to reach a different level in the playoffs. And like this team as a whole did that in the playoffs, frankly. Are we gamers? Because I feel like we've been showing up but it's preseason. So I don't feel great about that, but I do feel

good about these pots. You guys aren't even watching preseason basketball, man. I'm out here grinding tape. You're the gamer. of all the gamers. Yeah. I'll take your word for it, brother. Want some early previews of Risha Shay.

Just let me know. I got like five minutes of content for you. Conspicuously, you did not put Risha Shay on your top 100. We just came out of a meeting on that, and I was a little disappointed in you. I want to give them a little carrot, you know, a little incentive to keep grinding like we do. I would say this is Team Dark Horse award season.

Overall, I think Brunson has a very good case for MVP if this team over exceeds expectations. If they're the one seat, all of a sudden, if the Celtics are injured, then we expect. I think McBride, six men of the year, I think definitely going to be in there, going to put up numbers because he's going to get the minutes. And I think Tibbs early coach of the year,

if not frontrunner, definitely going to be in the mix there. So if we're tracking those sorts of things, as we tend to do in preseason, I think they're definitely all going to be in the mix. Plus the all-star berths we talked about. I think there's some all-NBA cases here. I think they could be one of the teams with two all-defense guys,

two first team all defense wings potentially. Yeah. One little wrinkle I will mention, though, is like there is talk of Robinson if he comes back, like maybe doing a too big thing with Kat. I'm kind of in a way and C mode. Don't hate it. Obviously, he has experience doing both now. I'm just a little, I don't know what to make of Mitchell Robinson at this point.

He had two surgeries, I believe, on his ankle. And so I kind of need to see it to believe it at this point. Also, the timing of when he's projecting to come back is close to the trade deadline. So there's like some weird stuff. going on there that I'm like silently tracking but that's another wrinkle they could throw out there maybe spell cat a little bit of the pounding that he's going to get at center. I actually

love that as an idea and I'm not going to lie, the wolves and the Mavericks, what they were able to achieve last postseason got me back into the big man. Hell yeah. I'm into the idea that they would play big and try to, because you think about

towns, Mitchell Robinson, Bridges and OG as a foursome, defensively, that's a huge freaking team right there. Like I love the idea that they would deploy that much size at one time. Like that just gives

teams a difficult look and it's a look that teams are not used to playing against and you could use that to great defensive effect, I believe. So I think that's one of the keys to having that's like that's one of the keys to this team being like

legitimately championship worthy is if they could have that scheme versatility where it's like, you know what, we could do small ball stuff and, you know, five out stuff by playing cat at the five, or we could come out and bash you over the head with, you know, just sheer size and physicality. Like, I would love that for them, you know,

if Mitchell Robinson could stay on the floor. Yeah. And the swing spot for that is Josh Hart. He's probably the guy who gets squeezed out to the bench. If you do end up starting Mitchell Robinson or playing him for big minutes in those kinds of situations. Not a bad option to have. It kind of fits, like, what you're getting from Josh Hart in a lot of ways is what you get from a center.

Yeah. Any other guys or things here? I think on the wing watch, if we're going to say, like, they need to kind of find someone out of thin air. They have brought in T.J. Warren, who hasn't really been able to catch on in his last few auditions. They brought in Chuma O'Kiki, who, okay, like, I think we've liked moments from him in the past, but has not been able to pull it together. They also have Pocom Dadiye, who they just drafted. I guess we'll see if he's ready to contribute right away. He's 19, I doubt it.

I kind of doubt it too. But maybe. These are the kinds of maybes that the back end of the rotation is relying on right now. And if not them, they're going to have to find somebody at some point this season for very, very little money and probably going to have to engineer some kind of trade to make it happen. I don't even know that they're going to have room to outright sign anybody. So last thing I'll say about this team is that I really do think that if Carl Anthony Towns has buying on just the potential of something extremely special

that could be accomplished by actually winning with this team for these fans, I think they could do incredible things. And I say that because Jalen Brunson, who's, man, it's underrated the amount of responsibility that he has because he's kind of managing this whole thing. It's going to be on him to kind of keep everybody happy on the floor in terms of,

and feeling involved and all of that. It's on him. And Jalen Brunson has embraced the truth of, like, what this freaking team means to all the people that support it. And obviously for him, he's gone from relative NBA obscurity to a goddamn megastar icon in a two-year period. And it's because of what he's achieving with this specific team for these specific fans. And I think if that can be important,

impressed upon Carl Anthony Towns, what the mission is, I really do think they could do great things this season and beyond, because these guys are young, too. I want to throw out something that is a little lofty and a little ambitious for Jalen Brunson, but what I'm being reminded of in watching him operate in the way you're alluding to was, not just as a player, but as like a captain,

as a leader of an organization, as a superstar influence, I see a lot of stuff there. It's a little different personality. But the way other guys want to play for him, what he opens up for other people, how low maintenance he himself is, allows other guys to shine. I think it's not a coincidence

that we're seeing the revitalization of an entire franchise as Jalen Brunson has ascended. He and his personality as much as anything, in addition to who he's been as a player, I think are really critical to that. I thought you're going to say Derek Jeter. I would never. Screw that guy, by the day. Fox.

Get him off of the freaking post game Mets have a big winning. Jerich, he just didn't seem pretty happy about it. I could tell his Yankee, hating ass, wasn't happy about what the Mets had just achieved. And I was just like, I'm not feeling this dude. Still never felt that dude. Anyway. I may or may not have known that would wind Waz up.

So I just threw it out there. This NBA season on Fandul, you can make every play, pass, and point mean more on America's number one. sportsbook. And right now, new customers can bet $5 and get $300 in bonus bets if your first bet wins. Fandall has all your favorite bets from who will win the game to how many points a player will score. Plus, check out cool bets like number of dunks or assists or three-pointers in the next three minutes. It doesn't matter if you tap into Fando before the game starts or after it has already tipped off. So I don't know if you've seen the season awards for the NBA. We talked about this as part of our preseason power rankings on group chat. I really like Devin

Booker as a dark horse. I'm talking way off the board MVP candidate. And look at those odds, plus 10,000. I don't hate it, you know, especially if Kevin Durant gets hurt. Bud has an effect on teams in his first year so I could see the Suns winning more games and they should. So give me Devin Booker, MVP, lock it in. And whether you want to ride with my picks or have a hunch on your own, now is the perfect time to get in on the action. Just visit Fandulul com slash ringer MBA for your chance to score $300 in bonus bets. Have a ball, betting ball with Fandul, official sportsbook partner of the NBA. Must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus in present in D.C.

First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.Fandle.com. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit R.G. All right, let's flip to Brunson's old team now. Number four, the Dallas Mavericks. We were a little split on. Waz had them fourth. Rob had them sixth. I had them third and second in the Western

Conference. I just believe what happened in the postseason. And oddly enough, this team did change a good bit of the roster over the offseason. So if you compound that with what happened at the deadline, this team has gone through a couple different shades of itself over the past, what, eight months or so, however long that may be. I just believe in a healthy Luca Donchich with Kyrie in the back court. We can get into like obviously Kyrie wasn't great in the finals, but I think in terms of like getting back to a conference finals, I'm pretty bullish on that. And frankly, I like the replacements on the wing. Derek Jones Jr. was a huge part of that team. But I don't know if you guys have already seen the love for Najee Marshall coming out of training camp and from his

teammates. That guy's a goddamn dog. And I just, I feel good about that. I feel good about Quentin Grimes getting a look. And I'm excited, although cautious, about the new clay coming back. I think if they use him in the right ways, he could be very helpful. We could talk about what that role might be. But Rob, I like what they have here on paper at the very least. I do too. I mean, there's no question to me that they got better. They're also a team that was naturally going to get better in terms of season performance based on the moves they made at the deadline, based on the resurgence of their defense late in the year. And obviously, the kind of playoff round they went on. There's a lot to like here. And a lot of reason to think that they are going to be meaningfully improved by their

experience of being in the finals, which I think was very clarifying in terms of what they needed, what they needed to add, what they didn't have. And in particular, the importance of that sort of weak side balance, you know, whatever you may think of Clay, having him in the corner, having him on the wing, having him set screens, it's going to hit a lot different than Derek Jones, Jr. doing those things. And the pressure that that packed, I would say not only on Luca and Kyrie to create one-on-one against an excellent Celtics defense. But the pressure put on guys like Derek lively, who was not ready for that moment and to exert his will and didn't have the same opportunities and openings because of the way the court was

spaced, he's going to breathe easier. PJ Washington's going to breathe easier. I think everything overall from having a guy like Clay is going to be easier, not because he's going to put up 25, but because of the way he's going to demand attention from opposing defenses. I love the continuity of it all, right, with Luca Kau. I read, P.J. Washington, Gafford, and Derek Lively doing that deep playoff run. And the way that they did it, which was just marling people on defense and overwhelming

people with their size to where the paint was just foreclosed upon. Like, nobody was allowed to take real estate in Dallas's paint all playoff long, right? And just the fact that they now are armed with the knowledge of what it's going to take to win at the highest level. I love that for them. I love that Luca made it to the finals, and now he knows that, like, I have to be perfect on a possession-by-possession basis

in order to win this. That was the most striking thing about Boston, where we saw them in the past be such knuckle-headed idiots in terms of their basketball decisions that cost them, like, series that they could have won. And in the playoffs, in this final, specifically, last year, we did not see that. These guys were focused.

They had a healthy respect for each and every possession, right? And I think Dallas is now armed with that knowledge. Like, bro, you have to be perfect. You know, I think the Celtics players even talked about it going up against Golden State. They realized, like, man, this level of execution on a possession by possession basis, like Golden State knew it. They had it. That's why they beat us.

and Boston made that realization and transition. And I'm interested to see Dallas, you know, take that step as well. I just like the versatility they have up and down the roster now because the PJ Washington spot was a concern the deeper they got into the postseason. Just the fact that he wasn't hitting shots and providing the space I think they needed Kyrie in particular. Now it's like, do you have to close with PJ? Maybe not. Like maybe Najee Marshall can size down at the four. He's a dog.

As we mentioned, I could see him closing next to Clems. or next to Quentin Grimes. Grimes, the guy I think we're all pretty high on, but just hasn't been able to do it consistently. He's never shown us anything, but we're still high on him. He's not. I know. He had a couple good Nix minutes, yeah.

I also think there's like an opportunity to maybe play PJ at the five if you need to get into a shootout, right? I don't think it really provides the edge that they would have needed against a Celtics or a team, like, maybe even the Thunder who's like supremely versatile. But like, you could steal some minutes in a smaller look like that. I just like the roster. And ultimately, it's Luca Donchich in the midst of his prime.

And we saw, like, if you just give him enough what he's capable of doing. And that's enough to get them at number four on a list. And for me, I had him even a spot higher. Yeah, I mean, even when you don't give him enough, he does incredible shit all the time. And I think the things for me to watch with this team are obviously the health. Like, Kyrie in particular, is a guy who tends to miss some time over the course of a year. If he's hurt at the wrong time, that really compromises the structure of this team in a way that they cannot compensate for.

They need to figure out what they're going to do with their backup guard spots. Dante X-M is now going to be out for a couple months. Spencer Dinwiddie, not for me. Not good. Not for me. So among the options available, I actually, surprisingly, am finding myself in a position where I'm like, yeah, you should probably play Jaden Hardy a little bit more than even expected.

We're not great minutes last season last we saw him. He had some. He had some really, he had some really good pop in the playoffs in, in, select stretches. Over a long enough timeline, he has not shown it yet, but he's a really young player who's coming along.

And ultimately, I would hope that Exum can give him something to. But you're right, they're going to have to McGiver some of these lineups. They do have the pieces to do it, though. They're a team that has two true bigs

if they want to go that way. They have these sorts of stretch fours they can play five. We should name Maxi Klebba as well, as a guy who can fulfill, like, fill in that capacity time and again. And then, yeah, the fact that Clay at this point is probably more comfortable guarding three fours

and as more of kind of a small ball forward than anything else. So that's the question was I have down here, which is it's game seven, there's two minutes left and the score is tied. Is Clay Thompson on the floor for this team? He certainly doesn't have to be.

And the best part about it is he doesn't have the institutional clout that he's allowed to make us think about it the way he was doing in Golden State at the end there, where he was kind of being a diva about the minutes and, all of this stuff. And he doesn't have the latitude to do that, which I think is the most important part about that. It's like, whether he plays or he doesn't play is one thing. But the fact that

he just doesn't have the credibility with this team to pretend that he's entitled to minutes, I think is what's most important about all of that. And so, yeah, it depends on the matchup to me. It depends on how sorely they're needing shooting. It depends, like, is PJ Washington or Najee Marshall, making it? shots that night and the defense is showing them respect, right? Like, I think it depends on the matchup, you know, which we say all the time, like, some of these guys in matchup specific. But for me, what I'll be looking for the most is that I think there were moments, like

you guys said, that were a little bit too big for Derek lively. He was just only a freaking rookie, a 20-year-old rookie during the playoffs last year. And, you know, there was times where the Celtics were just like, yeah, we have no problem putting Jason Tatum on him. We have no problem putting Jalen Brown on. him. The day he makes that an impossible decision for opposing teams, this team is going to go insane mode. Okay? So like, that's what I'm looking for to see if he becomes a guy who can be stronger with the ball. And not that you, you know, your yoke at you or whatever and just

destroying everybody. But like, hey, man, you make it so that one of these little six foot seven wing types got to foul you when you have the ball on the block. You know what I mean? And so that's what I'm looking for with Lodley because defensively he's going to be there. He's going to be defensive player the year type candidate type of guy. You know, all defense type of guy. He's a star defensively already. It's just can he take the next step on offense like my man, Rui Hachamora? I think we may be closer to that day with Lively than some people might expect.

He's proven to be a really precocious player who has advanced really, really quickly. Can I tell you the clip that I saw recently, which was that someone suggesting that Lively is on a Janus track? Okay, I didn't say that. So there's that out there. Maybe he's Janus. Obviously, big athlete, really good passer for his size. Moves. I will say this, as far as the Janus comp, moves incredibly well for a player his size.

I love his movement. Natural fluidity, great feet, good hands, and feels like he has an emerging confidence in doing things with the ball, whether it's in space, kind of short row passing, whether it's on the block, hopefully taking advantage of players like Jason Tatum or players size like him in the future, that's a crucible that a lot of bigs in the NBA have to go through. And it's something that is very different than

playing against whatever wings you were playing at in college or at lower levels internationally. Like, Jason Tatum is not one of those guys. That's a tough-ass defender, and you've got to figure out a way to score over him. Incredibly difficult. Overall, as far as the clay piece of this, I agree that you don't have to put him on the,

floor in these sorts of critical late game situations, but also why else did you sign him if you don't intend to? I think his value is in that sort of relief for late game execution. It's not that he's going to be perfect. It's not that he's going to be prime golden state clay in those moments because we know, especially defensively, he's not the player he used to be. And even offensively, he was forcing things there a little bit more than he had historically. But what he gives you, and more importantly, what he opens up for Luca and Kyrie to do is the reason you want him on the floor there. And if it does come down to a pick and chew situation, I think we have to tip our cap to the fact that Jason Kidd has actually proven himself to be

quite good at pulling the right levers and quite good at managing the rotations, especially over a playoff run. Yeah, I worry about the defense event, because I don't see that ever coming back. Like, you don't regain the ability to shuttle with like 26-year-olds, you know? Tell me about it, brother. I'm getting smoked out there playing pickup right now. well at least you're still out there Waz and I retired a long time ago I can see Clay if he's on an absolute heater

which he still can do then you ride that I just get a little concerned if it's Clay plus Kyrie against the team that could throw out five two-way guys and so like especially deeper in the playoffs or even maybe early in the playoffs

I could see turning to guys more like Grimes and Marshall to close it out just because you're going to need that from those positions here's the other piece of this Luca Donchish has to guard the makeup of this lineup and who is going to be on the floor

in most situations, he's going to have to take it seriously and he's going to have to live up to the level of frankly, what we know he can do. And this, if anything, is one of the big differences

between him and Kyrie is, I think Kyrie has shown he shows up and puts in really good defensive effort. He has limitations because of his size. It's not a perfect defender, but he shows up and he does his job in games. And Luca,

that comes and goes. And we've seen he can guard bigs. We've seen he can guard wings. We've seen he can guard wings. We've seen he can stay in front of people. We know his usage, like his workload is ridiculous. And I think we're all very sensitive to that. But there's room for him to try harder and take it more seriously

while still doing all the amazing things he does on offense. No more post-game beer, Luca. You hear that? That's fine. I mean, maybe just make it a light. Yeah. Or an ice at the very least. Yeah.

Actually, maybe he needs the full carbs. Maybe he needs more energy. Maybe that's the issue. Oh, okay. I'm open to it. whatever he needs to do to get up for it, I support him. Anybody else here? Any guys or things we named, I think, the entire roster at this point?

A lot of guys. Olivier Maxins prosper, just because I got to shout him out because he's a Haitian Canadian. He's from Montreal. So shouts to him of Haitian descent. Do you have relations in Canada? I got family in Canada, for sure. In Montreal specifically.

Yeah, it's a big Haitian community, you know, the French connection, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, I'll be watching him and make sure he's making us proud. That's it. All right. All right. Number three, the Denver Nuggets. I thought we'd grown. At least I had.

Unfortunately, some of us on this call, I won't name names, Oz and Rob. So, Voss had them second in the NBA. Sorry, I'm sorry. Rob had them third. Yeah. I had them sixth. Six.

How many West teams are above them for you? I think two. I had the Thunder and the Mavericks. So my three through six is Mavs, Knicks, Sixers, Nuggets. I realize I'm really high off of the preseason fumes for the Sixers. I was about to say, yeah. I get that. I think we did these rankings initially when the concerns over the depth were very prominent in the

discourse. The wolves hadn't traded the big Trump card they had in a series against the Nuggets, but I don't feel bad about it. I'll be honest. That's about what I kind of expect for them going into the season. I think for me, again, how I did my rankings was like if the playoffs started tomorrow, like I would pick Denver over OKC in a series, over Dallas, over the Knicks. I just would. I just trust Nicola Yokic that much in a seven-game series to figure, something out to pull this thing out. And of course, I'm still high off for the fumes of the Olympics, right? For me and watching Yokic, with, again, with a bunch of Serbian mechanics

and just going out there and making shit work. Like, he's just sticking it together with, like, crazy glue. And I'm like, this guy is just special. And in a playoff setting, I still believe, man, that Denver is going to be the toughest out in the Western Conference. OKC, by far on paper has the most top-end talent of any team in the West. I will concede that point. I just don't think it will bear itself out that way this coming season.

There's still a little, you know what I mean, young and experienced, and they still got some growing pains to do. I recognize the enormity of the talent over there. I recognize the enormity of the talent in Dallas. is just for me, man, the championship medal and pedigree, man. Never underestimate the heart of a champion, Justin Verrier. That's right.

You wouldn't, I mean, I went to Yukon, so. No. That has never been an issue for us. Absolutely not. I think if, yeah, there's the overall talent question, which Denver has taken a step back. And some of these young guys are going to need to prove that they're even worthy of consistent rotation minutes

to make that thing work. There's also the match-up question that Waz is talking. about it and that we alluded to with the wolves which I just think Denver matches up better with the wolves today than they did before I think they still match up very well with OKC overall and I think I also think they would have beaten Dallas had they had a chance to play in a series like Waz does so if you believe all those things they still feel like a very reasonable option to make it out of the West they're not infallible they could easily run into problems they are probably more vulnerable to an injury to the the top part of the rotation than any other team in this class. Because even if they lose Christian Brown, they are screwed. They are really screwed. And that's a very delicate place to be.

Yeah. If you want to do best player or best team, I totally respect that. Yokic is just going to make things happen. We've seen it time and time again, including in the Olympics. And so I respect that very much. I just see this one through three

is like picking nits and just like about margin for error. Anything in the nuggets have probably the least. margin for error. Very little. I just think of how many games they won, including in that first round series

against the Lakers. How much of it was Yokic drawing a double, Aaron Gordon cutting off the backside, dunk, game over, right? And I think to myself, okay, so if one of those guys providing the spacing so you can't help on Gordon is Christian Brown,

who can't make a three, does that just gunk up that mix? And then if you want to replace Christian Brown with some of these young guys, it's like, then who's guarding ones and twos on the other, end. And so like the lineup map doesn't make total sense to me at this point. And maybe that's not a huge thing. But I think it will ultimately compound to the point where it's like, oh, maybe

they lose half of those games now. And now we're the fourth and fifth seed. And now we're playing a tougher team in round one. And then what does that mean for round two? What does that mean for round three? Does it mean that we have to play Yokic more than he's used to? I do think one of the big differences last year is opposed to the year before that was that they had in 2020, the time to take off like a month and a half before the postseason, they look fresh. You hear all the quotes coming out over the off season. They're like, man, we were fucking tired in the postseason. The bench is worse now. We're at the very least less reliable. I think if some of the young guys pop and we should talk about that, like, I do think that makes a world of difference. This team

looks incredibly better with like Strother and Peyton Watson as like guys you can bank on in a playoff series. I just don't think they're there yet. And if anything, like, throwing Russell Westbrook into the mix, just like upends. This adds. a chaotic element that, like, I think only makes it worse, not better. And so I don't know. There's just like that surety you feel what the Nuggets is no longer there. And so that's why I have them a little bit lower than you guys. I agree with everything you're saying.

It's hard to look at this roster and feel great about where the supporting cast is. It's hard to look at Christian Brown's career to this point and feel amazing about where his shot is, even though he's had good moments. And frankly, even like a decent regular season. But when it came down to it, he was hard to have on the floor sometimes because teams will not guard him. And in those like prove it situations, he didn't quite live up to it in this last playoff run.

And that's tough for a guy who's going to be really in a prime position with this team and is going to prove to be a really important part of the roster. Overall, the Nuggets have to take more threes. Have to. With worst three-point shooters. With worse three-point shooters. And they have not only is Brown an up-and-down shooter. They have brought in one of the worst three-point shooters in the league in Russell Westbrook.

Nicole Yokej is shot. He switched a couple in that first preseason. though. I saw those highlights. I salute him for it. Nicole Yokoa just shot has kind of abandoned him low-key over the last year or so. And so that's where, yeah, like, we've talked plenty about Peyton Watson on this podcast.

He's a prospect who I still like. But Julian Strother is kind of in the crosshairs a little bit. That is the kind of shooter and the kind of, you know, point-a-minute kind of force in limited dosage that could end up being a really important nugget. Yeah, I mean, I basically had

Peyton Watson on a Scotty Pippin track last year, which was probably a mistake. He still could be. But look, I think the playoffs were, you know, a wake-up call for a young guy and just like, look, man, like, every possession is serious. And Mike Malone's like, bro, like,

I watched this win a championship last year. We didn't have, we weren't giving rotation minutes to players that were playing as sloppily as you are, Peyton Watson. So you're out of my rotation. Like, I respect that. Like, I understand because a lot of people in Denver, the fans anyway, were like, man, like, to just completely give up on the kid like that,

a lot of people feel like he should have gotten more of a bit of a rope. But I feel Mike Malone, it's a young guy who you want to invest in in the future. Like, you got to teach him a hard lesson pretty early on here. So I'm not mad at it. I think Peyton Watson is, you know, if Calvin Booth is, like, actually right. in his approach of just telling veterans like, we don't care, we don't need you, we won't pay you, even though you're proven,

and absolutely fit everything we're about and try to do here, it's going to be because a guy like Peyton Watson takes another step and becomes a lot more reliable. And that's in his shooting, cutting, you know, defensive focus, all of that stuff. And I have to say, like, if Calvin Booth is right,

this could be a die. Dynasty, maybe, like, they have a long runway ahead of them if they're just supplementing reserve players with guys that they brought up through the system. I just think it's hard to be right at the rate that he needs to be right at in order to fill the many holes that they have. It's just like, it's a real huge bet. And like, honestly, he has some fucking huge balls in order to go down this path. But it just seems like it's like, you're really risking a lot. You're risking Yokic's like prime years and where you were the top dog in the league just to say that you were right about these draft picks.

We haven't even talked about Jamal Murray. Obviously, that's a huge question mark that just compounds all these issues. And so, I don't know. It's just like, there's something to miss here, and you're just counting on Yokic to be the best, and he might still be, and it might still not matter, frankly. Yeah, I think

he is still the best player of the world. And I agree with you that when it really comes down to it, it may still be out of his hands. If any of these guys get hurt, if any of them don't deliver in the way they're expected, there are a couple mechanisms in the roster to help them get through the year and still win a fuck ton of games.

And I think we probably all still expect this team to be in kind of the mid-50s. Maybe scaling back a little from how aggressively they chased the one seed last regular season, but ultimately still a great regular season team. The questions for me are, how much can Jamal Maria and Russell Westbrook

play together? Can you seal minutes at the two with Westbrook? And also there's been some chatter about them playing Michael Porter more at the four this year, which is a big mechanism that can open up some offense, get more shooting on the floor. You obviously trade off what Aaron Gordon's giving you as a cutter and rebounder and defender and all that.

But, you know, Christian Brown at the three with MPJ at the four is a different look that could make a lot of sense. And I will say, is a vote of confidence in the fact that a guy who has historically had some huge injury issues is coming off a season where he played 81 games. Like Michael Porter was incredibly healthy and available last year. And I think it's shown and proven up to the standard of like, let's give this guy a little more to do. Let's see if he can handle even a little bit more than what we already ask of him. If I have any doubts about this team, honestly, Justin, and putting him like number two in my power ranking,

it's, Jamal Murray was bad against the wolves. He was even worse for Team Canada. He was horrible. That meltdown debacle that they had in the Olympics, a lot of that is at his feet. Like, he was terrible, guys. Like, not even like, oh, he's like,

kind of not playing up to, you know, play off Murray. No, like, this guy was bad. And then, of course, you know, they paid him $200 million, you know, with the extension and all of that. So Denver has given him a vote of confidence. He has to be much, much better for this whole thing to come together. Can I issue two caveats as a Jamal Murray guy? Yeah.

One. Yeah, he wasn't great against the wolves overall. but he was one of the nuggets who really showed up in game 7 who had a great game in a moment where yeah they let go of the rope they should have won that game and didn't but ultimately I thought he played really well in it

was that the one he was supposed to be suspended for or was I have no comment on any of that and to even get to that point he fucking bawled out against the Lakers like he does he does tend to show up in these moments and I think the wolf's matchup was tough for him for a variety of reasons in particular he just didn't really look like

fully healthy Jamal Murray. They were harassing his ass, all of that length and speed and physicality. He was in jail boy. Completely. And the wolves still have that. Yeah. It might not have the size, but they have the dogs in the perimeter. Definitely. And even guys like Dante

DeVincenzo, who's not an ace defender, is a good pressure defender. He's a pest in a way that will be annoying to someone like Jamal Murray. And so, yeah, if Jamal wasn't 100% and got hounded in that series to really limit his effect, and then played internationally in the offseason,

yeah, I don't feel great about where he's coming in here in terms of what he might be physically capable of relative to the Jamal that we know. I 100% agree. Can we go back to the Michael Porter Jr. at the 4th thing? Because I also think if that's

like a bench option, all of a sudden, Russell Westbrook might make a little bit more sense. Like David Adelman was talking in the media the other day about Porter screening and like what he could do off the pick and pop there. I'm like Russell Westbrook, Michael Porter Jr.

Pick and Pop as a bench unit. I'm like, all right, sign me up. On the one hand, Russell Westbrook, fifth worst than true shooting percentage last year. So we're talking to Scoot Henderson levels. On the other hand, like, if he's serviceable, they need bodies, as we mentioned. And so, like, maybe that's a good way to throw them around.

I mean, Russ is a good regular season player. I will say that. He will, at this stage of his career, throw his body around and do enough in order to provide a chaos element into this thing. that tends to work for teams. I don't want him in my playoff rotation even, or at the very least, like, diminished.

But if he could just get them to that point, I think he's helpful. What I like about washed up rush is that he does try way harder on defense than he used to. It's not close. He's gotten it through his head that this is where I can actually have an impact and a contribution. Do you think his problem before

was that he wasn't trying hard enough on defense? Because he would do lots of sports. because he would do lots of stuff. Well, he would just like jump in the complete opposite direction of where the guy with the ball in his hand was going. Like, I'm playing defense. Approach.

There's a lot of that. Yeah, he's just gotten way better at that. And Justin mentioned playing with Jamal Murray. I like it because Russ can guard two guards. He's capable of that. He's got the size and the strength to do that. and he can be on ball. Like, it's not the end of the world if we take Jamal Murray off ball.

Who, by the way, because he's played his whole career there with Yokic is used to being off the ball, is used to doing movement stuff and working off a dribble handoffs and stuff like that. Like, he's a movement guy. And so I think he can play off the ball with Russ because we know when Russ doesn't have the ball, it becomes like a circus out there for the lineups that he. he's a part of. It can. Yeah, I agree with you about guarding twos.

I think he has the size and the physicality to do it. We've even seen him guards and threes to pretty good effect. And I would not be surprised, depending on how the lineup shake out, if you have situations where Christian Brown is guarding an opposing point guard and Russell Westbrook is guarding an opposing three. Like, that could make sense for certain groups. And from what I've heard out of Denver, I got my little birdies out there. He's completely ingratiated himself with the team.

Like, everybody is in love with the guy. And just, like, he's been a positive influence since getting there. Which I'm not surprised to hear, like, you know, guys like us have always kind of, I've, I really started hating Russ's game in 2016 when he blew it against the Golden State Warriors. I was like, okay, like, this guy's not who I thought he was. And that's his game. But in terms of as a guy and a teammate and somebody in your building every day, his reputation is. Stirling. Impeccable.

He has a sterling reputation as a high-quality guy. So I'm not surprised that the people in Denver are loving him already. Are you guys planning to buy Nicola Yokic's new signature shoe on 361 degrees, a brand I didn't know about until just right now? I look into it. I'm not above it. Can you read us some ad copy for it? Like, what are the features? It just looks like a silhouette of a shoe that they haven't revealed yet.

It's called the Joker 1 GT. There's also just a Joker 1 version. I don't know, Rob, are you a GT guy? I can't really tell. I'm not usually a GT guy to the extent I even know what that means. Well, I'm wondering, does it have like a little bit of a heel so it can fit comfortably into a stirrup?

I'm sure it can. There's a version. But yeah, Justin, why are you asking me about this when we have our leading shoe correspondent, Wozni Lambray, right here? He's sitting right here. Listen, I'm not above a non-Nike. non-

Adidas, Reebok. Like, I'm not above trying something new. And because I am a devoted Yokic loyalist, unlike some people on this pod, I will look into it for Shorski. Okay.

Anything else on the Nugs? Shout out to Dario Sarch. New Denver Nugget, Dario Sarch. I don't mind it. He's going to be good. I think he's going to be good. I think the alternative to the sort of either

like big traditional D'Andre Jordan Center or like Alt's Zik Naji option Something in between with a little bad He's, I like moments of Zik Naji But he tries hard He's a motor big man

Motor big guys I have a soft Spot for This is the thing, yeah An NBA player He's definitely he's definitively an NBA player He tries hard, yeah But I think some of the The difference in skill set you get with

Sarich in terms of playmaking and potentially shooting although the shot can be a little come and go too. I don't mind for a Nicola Yokic team. All right. Number two on the list, the Oklahoma City Thunder. They were number one for me. Should we just talk about our one to two

positionings just in general? Rob, did you have the Thunder at 2? I did. I had Celtics Thunder. Okay. I had Thunder Celtics. Rob, Waz had Celtics, Nuggets Thunder. To me, this is just, again, it's more of an injury concern with the Celtics

than it is anything about the Thunder. I mean, we could talk at length about the Thunder and we will. You think the Thunder should be the favorite to win the NBA championship this year? I do. Yeah.

I think that if I could bet on the Celtics being fully healthy, I would bet on... Well, yeah, as a media member or... Vandal isn't taking odds on whether or not the entire team will be healthy,

yeah. But as far as what this means for the Thunder, I know you're saying it's more about the Celtics, Among these contenders, I would say short of the Knicks, they did add more than basically any other team in this range. They had an incredible roster and they just rounded it out to just add whatever they needed. They added Ellis Caruso, one of the best wing defenders in the NBA. They added at Isaiah Hartenstein, who is everybody's favorite player, but at the very least can provide them serviceable center minutes against bigger team so Chet Holmgren doesn't have to do that.

The thing is just like the experience? It's like, is Chech can take a step forward here? It looked like he adjusted his shot, and so I'm like tracking that. Is J-dub after looking a little mixed in the postseason? Nothing to be concerned about, but can you take a step forward? Young guy. Totally young guy stuff. Can he be an all-star level player?

I think it's in them. How much of that are we going to get versus the Celtics, which you know is like one of the most bulletproof starting fives that we've seen in recent history? I just can count on the depth with the thunder. And so for me, that made the difference between one and two. I don't mind it. I do think The Thunder are pretty definitively the favorite of the West. And given how hard it is to repeat right now in the NBA and the rigors of going back to back,

would not surprise me whatsoever if the Thunder end up winning the NBA title right now, which is an insane thing to say about a team that's in their position with as much youth as they have. And for all the additions that they made, the fact that the reasons they could fundamentally be a championship level team and make the sort of jump we're talking about might not even be Alex Caruso questions, or Shet Holmgren questions,

but internal development. Like a huge swing in these guys paying off in the ways that, frankly, I think we can expect them at some point to pay off in. Yeah, I mean, obviously I love the thunder.

That's why I had them number three behind the last two NBA champions. Like, to me, again, the talent sort of speaks for itself. I just think, Chet, in the playoffs we saw, like, he was called upon

to be a scoring punch and he did not answer the bell in the ways that they needed him to and he's like getting Isaiah Hartenstein and Alex Caruso does not change that equation for him. He's still going to need to be a score

an efficient score from both outside and inside in order for this team to take the next step. So, you know, I'm obviously y'all know I'm Chet Pilled. Like, I believe in this kid. But like, you know, it's a lot to ask just in one year, right?

To go from like, all right, marginal scoring ability in the playoffs to like, all right, we're counting upon you to be our rock solid, third most important offensive piece because, you know, you allow us to be stretchy when you're actually stretching, you know what I mean, at the five or even the four. And while also providing us with that, you know, that signature defensive punch. But yeah, for me, it's about Chet and what he's able to do on the offensive. And, like, you know, I've seen a couple of the highlight packages where he's putting it on the floor in preseason and driving and looking like a baby Janus, if you will. A lot of baby Janus is out there right now.

I know. It's crazy. He's birthed so many children. He's like Father Abraham at this point. No, and that's what I'll be looking for in terms of Chet. Like, how aggressive is he going to be hunting his shot this year? Well, and if anything, the additions that they made only accentuate that need. Alex Caruso and Isaiah Hardenstein are great players.

They are not transcendent scores. And if Caruso's shot holds, he's going to be a good spacer for them. If Hartenstein can continue to hit the little push shots, that's going to be nice. But those are, that's icing on top of the cake. That's not what you're relying on. You're really hitting that Stein hard there. That's literally how you say his name. I don't know what to tell you.

So when you run into Mark Stein at a game, you're like, Mark Stein. Steiny Mo! That's a little. It's literally an entirely different name. I honestly don't know what to tell you. You sound like a goldfinger character. This is his name.

That's how he pronounces it. No, but I think it's wild that if we were to draw up the two players that would just add to this team. Like we were just saying like, hey, they need this guy. They went out and got those guys. Which is outrageous. We could talk all about like the beautiful team building they've done. Obviously getting Shay was like a windfall that nobody saw a comment.

and then that was a big part of the Paul George trade. But the fact that they've drafted their way into this position really just shows how they've gotten the good stuff right. This isn't something where they turned a lot of those picks around and got Anthony Davis or Carl Towns, for instance, or McHale Bridges or something like that. They just drafted the right guys when given the opportunity. I keep thinking about this, especially after we talked about the Rock, it's like Jabari Smith could be in the Chet spot and this team could be looked at a little bit different.

But the fact they have Chet, who might take a leap in the... until like a what, top 30 player, it seems reasonable this year. Like, just goes to show, like, Sam Presky has this draft thing down. And, like, I just, I can't think of anybody else who's doing the type of job that he is. When they made these additions without giving up any of the picks that they have, right? Like, oh, yeah, it's all money. Yeah. To pull.

They still have to make a lot of draft picks, too. Isn't that fun? It is extremely fun. We're all looking very much forward to it. Like, Topich, for instance, number 12, pick in last year's draft, just probably, we getting redshirted. Well, I think he's literally, like, injured is probably going to be out for a long time. But to sign Hardenstein outright, to trade Giddy for Caruso, no picks.

Like, no sweetener whatsoever to make that happen after Josh Giddy kind of wet the bed in the playoffs. I don't know how that happens. I don't know how that trade gets completed without that kind of draft compensation attached to it, but it did. And they got a player who they very much needed in Alex Caruso. Yeah, like the minutes that they had to play Isaiah. Joe and Kaysen Wallace

Had to. Got to. Had the pleasure of playing Case and Wollas and Isaiah Joe. I'm just talking about them in the playoffs. Like these guys are nice players but they're a little light in the shorts. Like, we know that. Those guys were attacked and they were seen as targets whenever they hit the floor. So now

you're replacing those minutes with Alex Caruso. The dog's dog? Come on now. Dog's dog. Yeah, he's a dog's dog. Calling case and Wallace a target, it simply would not be me. Couldn't

do it. Wouldn't do it. I worry though that he might get lost in the shuffle. If we're just shuffling between Caruso and Dort, like, are there minutes available or as many minutes as Wallace has earned? Frankly, I hope so. I think they will. But, no, there's just guys on top of guys on this team. That's actually the question we have down

here who's going to make the biggest leap this year. Was, I'd assume it's chet for you, but I personally would go J-Dub, if only because of the father-al- To me, you wouldn't be out of line making the J-dub pick there because even when he was looking bad in the playoffs, it's not like he wasn't getting to his spots.

You know, it was just at times, like, not being aggressive enough. You know, some of the turnovers were, could be a little bit, like, defensive coverages were kind of confusing him at times, but he was still physically like, all right, this is a dude in terms of getting his shot off and getting to the cup. Like, he still looked like a,

guy, it's just he didn't have that refinement. And even said, like, the playoffs were just different, you know. And so, like, I don't think that's crazy at all to say that he could be a big league candidate even more so than Chet. Yeah, I'm a Chet guy, too. And I say that because I would pick J-dub for this. Like, I think Chet is going to improve dramatically. And I think J-Dub is going to have an even bigger leap.

He just seems really poised for it. And so to say that those two guys, two critical members of this team, could both be ascending at the same time. along with, you know, like, say Shea is literally any better than he already was, which is an MVP candidate. This team is going places really, really fast. And honestly, they were already pretty close. It was kind of a hair here and there in that series against the Mavs,

and things could have gone dramatically differently for the entire Western Conference. So I think Chet is going to do very well this season. I think Jalen Williams could be poised for something really, really special. Shea is 26 years old. And we're already saying, like, he's completely fully formed, He can change nothing about him and he'd still be probably the MVP favorite this year, which is wild. I assume he'll take steady incremental progress with his three-pointer. He was already taking more of them.

Obviously, doesn't need to do that because there are so many shooters sprayed out around there. But obviously, that would be a boon to his game and the entire offensive does that. This is why I had them won. It's just like they're kind of foolproof. They can only be so bad. They're the highest floor team in the league at this point. And their floor is probably like Western Conference Finals at this point, I would say personally. so there's a lot to like here.

Any other guys or things? We named a lot of guys. He's drinking that Oklahoma City Kool-Aid or Moonshine, whatever they drink in the prairie. Justin is drinking it, boy. How about this for naming some guys? There are so many teams,

including ones we have talked about today, that would be tripping over themselves to get Aaron Wiggins, and he might not even play. Yeah. Yeah. Usman Jang. Same thing.

Like, picked ahead of Jalen Williams, It just does not matter because they nailed all those other guys. All right. Number one on our list, the Boston Celtics. Again, this all comes down to the fact is I've been racking my brain because I've said this a bunch in preseason. I do think it is the only question that matters with this team because they are fucking lights out on both ends.

I can't remember a player who missed half of a season, which Christops will likely miss, and just went on to have a normal season. like even Jamal Murray two years ago he played most of the season he was like steadily brought back they kind of paced him out but he was available for I think he played 60 plus games that year Christop's probably going to play close to like 40 I would assume is probably the over under at this point

and if he's not there then I start to get worried because then it's Al who I believe is 38 this year and then it might be a little more Luke Cornett Oh it's gonna be it's gonna be a lot more Luke Corny a lot more Xavier Tillman. Regular season, totally fine with. But in the postseason, we saw when Al is there, he gets a little picked down at this

point in his career, which is no shame. He's still providing them a lot. When he's able to shoot, he's still giving him enough. I just, I think the strength of this team isn't Jason Tatum, as we talked about before, being the best player in the league. This is the rock solid, five out.

You can't pick apart any individual player on this team. And so, if Porzingis isn't there, that's like the slight edge I don't think they'll have. And the East is way more top-heavy. I think, for instance, they played the Cavs in the second round last year. Do they see the Cavs in the first round? And then the Sixers and then the Knicks. And like, so this is just going to be harder. It's not anything to ding the Celtics. I just think repeating is impossible in today's NBA, frankly. It's really hard. And I want to get ahead of the January podcast we are about to have where

we wonder, like, are the Celtics really as good as they were last season? I think there are. I'm not. I'm not entertaining that. There is a half, there are a half dozen reasons. for this team to take things a little bit more slowly in the regular season, including the ones you laid out, Justin. You don't want to stress wharf her too much. You don't want to rush Porzingis back before he's ready. I think overall,

they can just take their foot off the gas a little bit. They don't need to win 64 games. They don't need to be the number one seat in the conference by a mile. They can just be really good and content so long as Porzingas comes back in something resembling decent shape. And that's a huge question. I don't think there's any way around it,

because otherwise, yeah, They're kind of unimpeachable where they are. Yeah, to me, the Celtics, as long as they get to the playoffs with poor Zingason, a reasonable facsimile of health, they're going to be hard to beat. And I think the only thing they could take them down is if Jason Tatum learns the wrong lessons from last summer, being that with the strength of this team is the whole. Okay. It's the fact that they have no weaknesses on either side of the ball,

and they put extreme pressure on defenses and offenses all over the league. And it's because they don't have the one guy that's dominating every single aspect of the offense. It's a more egalitarian sort of. We attack the defense's biggest weaknesses, and we keep poking and prodding and killing them by doing that. If he learns the lesson of Jason Tatum doesn't get enough individual respect, that could tank a team. Okay? Like, that's just the wrong lesson to take from what happened last summer.

Take the championship lesson to heart, what y'all did to achieve that championship and not what happened with Team USA and your own individual ego and, you know, why you're so important and you need more minutes than LeBron James and Kevin Durant, okay? Having said that, I do think this is shaping up to be one of the biggest fuck you revenge tours for both Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown that we've ever seen.

It'd be amazing if it was, yeah. A reigning champion with so much nobody believes in us powder that like I could see them just going off. And so for that reason, I actually think they'll be fine in the regular season. I think these guys are going to be motivated in the way that a team coming off a championship tends to have a little bit of a hangover effect. Like I can see these guys like wanting to shove it down everybody's throat

and score 30 every night just to get to them to that point. And so for that reason, I think they're going to be a pretty good regular season deal. Well, when they're getting juice from the no-one believes in us energy, Justin, I just want you to know they're talking about you. Wow. Waz and I put them number one in our power rankings. They are talking to you.

I am the fan club president, man. Well, not anymore. Seated my button, I guess. Guess what? You didn't pay your dues. You're out. Damn. Anything else on the Celtics front?

I think it's a lot of asked and answered, right? A lot of these guys have lived up, they have measured up, they've been incredible, they've shown how they can work together. Even the people at the back end of the supporting cast, like Sam Houser being a real deal NBA player who doesn't, who I was going to say doesn't get picked on defensively, teams will try to do it and he answers the call. He's a gamer.

He's a gamer for sure. Lonnie Walker, I think, is an underrated, nice bench addition. That's going to be fun with this group. Peyton Pritchard, get it together, make a shot. Well, a shot that's not at the end of a quarter. Yeah, facts. Which is valuable in its own right. It certainly is.

On the Lonnie Walker front, I would love, I'm with you, I was like, when I saw that name, when I saw that they pulled him in, that's a great get, especially at the stage in the summer. He's barely been getting into even these preseason games. What do you think that's about? Is he injured? He is an exhibit 10 guy. I just hope he gets a crack to do something for them.

Not because even they necessarily need it, but I just think Lonnie Walker is a pretty decent NBA player. And even a team like the Celtics could use him. Well, if he doesn't, and they give some minutes to Baylor Shireman, maybe they will be better off for him. He is a first round draft pick, number 30 overall. He's 25 years old. He is a rookie.

You thought Dalton Connect was old. Let me show you Baylor Shireman. But he falls into the Samhouser mold. and I think he's actually more of a wing. There's actually stuff out there about him bulking up over the summer, so maybe he could play a little wing. And we know he's going to be a fan favorite. Oh, 100%.

First round rookie to play since 2021. Aaron Neesmith, Peyton Pritchard in that draft class. This is also, I believe, the first, first round rookie that Brad Stevens has held on to after trading everybody else to get the team that he had. So I'm feeling pretty good about him. I think he could be a contributor. We'll see. But we'll see.

One name we have not mentioned that we absolutely should. Joe Mazula has done an incredible job with this team. And is also saying patently unhinged things every second, even now. It's got to be on purpose, man. At this point, I'm like, he's trolling us. It's got to be one of those things where, like, because he's the type of guy to be like, yo, let's have all the attention on me. So, like, the media's not, like, bothering the guys and let the guys just be the team.

And, like, let them throw the arrows at me. so that everybody else can just concentrate on being great players. I hate to break it to him. I don't think that's the way it works. But if that's what he's doing, it's a noble effort. Yeah, I can't wait to see his encore in particular. Not only just because he's going to say some wild shit, but now he has the freedom of being a championship winning coach.

So I'm excited to see what he's going to draw up, especially if they are a little bit deeper than they were in years past. That's the preseason power rankings. That's six parts. Hell yeah. Multiple hours, at least six hours at this point. So if you missed your team in a previous episode, go back and find that in the archives. I'm sure we'll put them on a playlist for everybody to check out.

We'll be back in the regular rotation talking about NBA basketball leading up to opening night on Thursday. So thank you to Jesse Lopez. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll see you next time. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present in D.C. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com.

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