The Ringer NBA Show - Progress Reports for Trade Deadline Movers and the Draft Stock of Some NCAA Tournament Stars | Ringer NBA University

Episode Date: April 7, 2021

Kevin O’Connor and J. Kyle Mann start by handing out progress reports for players who got traded at the deadline, including Aaron Gordon (1:00). Then they discuss some observations from Tuesday night's games (29:18). Lastly, they play a game of Stock Up, Stock Down for a few of the stars from March Madness (40:45). Hosts: Kevin O'Connor and J. Kyle Mann Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

They don't have guests. They have contestants. Ten Questions with Kyle Brandt is the perfect game show and talk show hybrid that you need. Check out 10 questions exclusively on Spotify. Basketball is very good. Welcome to Ringer NBA University. I'm Kevin O'Connor. And here today is the Ringer's J. Kyle.

Man, what's going on today, Kyle? Hello, hello. KOC. My man, how you doing, buddy? I'm doing really good today, man. You know, we're without Jonathan Charks, unfortunately. but looking forward to having a good show with you. It's been two weeks since we chatted.

When did we last chat day before the deadline, right? Yeah, you know, way too long. I can't go that long without, you know, having a conversation with KOC. You know, I need to hear your voice. It's been a minute, and I'm looking forward to chatting today because on the you. We focus on the NBA's younger players, usually 25-ish years old or younger, plus the NBA drafts. So we'll be talking about some lessons learned from the NCAA tournament later in the show. But first, we have a lot to get to.

start with our progress reports for players that were moved at the trade deadline. It's been two weeks, like we said. So that's been a lot of time to assess and look ahead towards the postseason. So we're going to give a grade and discuss some players in new situations. And let's start off out west. The Nuggets are undefeated since the trade deadline with a plus 12 net rating. And they have a team leading net rating of plus 24 with Aaron Gordon on the floor. Plus 24 with Aaron Gordon on the floor for the Nuggets. Been a seamless fit with Jamal Murray and Nicole Yokach, by the way, MVP so far. So Kyle, with Aaron Gordon and Denver, what's your grade so far for this?

And what are your initial thoughts on how this fit is working out? Do you think, well, I was going to say, do you think that, are you one of the people that thinks Yokic was MVP even before the Embed injury? Or where did you fall in that? I had them like neck and neck. I had Embed slightly ahead, but it was very, very close between them. I was in the exact same camp. Yeah, you mentioned the net rating thing.

I was kind of looking at in the last, you know, five games, the best line. in the league. Yeah, and that it's pretty wild that that Murray Barton, Gordon, MPJ, Yokic lineup is second in net rating in the league. And I mean, and they're just scratching the surface. I mean, just from the outset, I think that you have to give it an A, whether you want to go, in, in terms of like moves at the deadline, I've done some stuff in the past, like kind of chronicling what you can get done at the deadline, what's possible. And in terms of like historical precedent, I think we'll have to judge it by how this all plays out. But I think the early results are saying strong A.

I mean, I don't know what your all's grading scale was when you were in school, but it was like, I think 90 to 100 was an A for us. I would give it at least a strong 94, 95, willing to go higher after the season if the results pan out. And they could because the lineup versatility that they added with Gordon, a guy who doesn't necessarily need the ball all the time, A guy who can inject some good decision-making in short, you know, touches. I know I was looking at his tracking data.

I was texting you about that last night. I was curious to see how it would change. His touch time is already way down from 2.5 seconds to 1.1. So, you know, when you're playing next to a great decision-maker like Yokic and flipping it the other way, whenever you put, you know, a strong cutter, a guy who can finish, a guy who can, you know, make open threes. it's it's a boon it's it's a home run of a of a trade for them it's working working out great you mentioned the touch time and that brings to mind a play that happened in tuesday's game

against the pistons the ball got imbounded to gordon and then him and yokech had five passes to each other within like a five or second period and it led to a yokech lab and it reminded me of the the blender scene and the post up scene with will feral and semi pro except except it was a smart basketball play, like each of the passes from Yokojin, from Gordon Head, meaning there was intention to get the guy open. They weren't just passing back and forth for no reason at all. But it just kind of outlined, you know, the touch stat that you just mentioned where he is making quick, rapid decisions with the ball. He's just fit in seamlessly. And it shows the, the power of putting a bunch of smart high IQ basketball players on the floor at the same time.

Well, you're adding variability. That's what you add. When you don't have good decision makers, good ball handlers, good creators, your variables, they narrow. You know, you end up in these situations where your productivity is bottlenecked and teams can easily prepare for you. If you look at some of the, you know, the best offensive teams in the league have high variability. And that is just putting players on the floor that can make complex decisions. You're harder to guard in that situation. And I mean, Gordon, something that I really noticed that I like a lot is, my God, what a tandem of MPJ and Gordon. I mean, you can put out there guys, that they support Yokic in some ways.

You know, MPJ, I think is underrated as sort of a weak side, you know, raise up, wall up, volleyball, rim protector. He's really good at that, like one step jumping and being long. He got way better too, like his defensive improvement this season. I feel like, I mean, ESPN just did their 25 under 25 lists, and I don't want to get too much into that. But I thought Michael Porter Jr. I think he was ranked 14th was a bit underrated than there.

Bobby Marks had him third, a little higher than I'd have him, but I respect it because Michael Porter Jr. has turned into a heck of a player. Like this past month averaging 21 points, 9 rebounds, 60% from the field, 54% from 3. I mean, he's been shooting the lights out his whole life. Yeah, the whole month he's been shooting the lights out. He has taken multiple leaps at the beginning of the year.

In midseason, it's happening now. Like I feel like the Ron Paul meme. It's happening. It's happening, you know, with Michael Porter Jr. It's just he's fitting in, man, and he's embracing the role. That's what this team. all of them are embracing a role around Yokich being the center of the solar system. Yeah, when you have a supercomputer like Yokic, I mean, he's arguably one.

I mean, he's in the conversation for best player in the world right now. I mean, I was watching that game last night with Detroit, and it was just like, Yokic is just so at his own pace and you can't rush him out of it. Like those, that's a really tough thing to deal with with a guy who can go get his own offense. And if you look at the pace among those teams that have like the high. offensive rating in terms of lineups in the past five games. You know, Denver isn't playing overly fast and you don't have to when you simplify, you know, and that just tells me that in

the half port, like, I was just noticing that, you know, Aaron Gordon's cutting is like skyrocketed. And I think we're kind of in the early stages of him kind of getting, you know, accustomed to their offense. I mean, it's up to 30.2 percent of his offense right now. The highest that's ever been in the past was a insane amount was eight point was eight point four. But something that I really like that I've noticed is, you know, teams, a really cool wrinkle to offense is if you can get early mismatches, and teams are really clever about doing this in transition or early, you know, secondary break types of things. If you can get those mismatches in your early offense, you can attack them in that like kind of quick hitter fashion where they come down,

maybe they don't even go into their offense, but Yokic sees these things. So if Gordon comes down, and that's the good thing about having two basically fours on the floor at the same time is they can attack those mismatches because you've got to put a big on Yokic. And, you know, I just noticed that he was posting up guys early and getting easy buckets. And that's just another wrinkle for the nuggets. And defensively, it's been great too. And we've talked throughout the show since we started in January, certain ideas about inverted offenses using guys in different positions.

We've talked about that in the context of Bruce Brown being used as a screener with the Nets. It's true with a lot of different teams with bigger guys handling the ball like Yokich does for Denver. And that allows them to do so many funky things in the floor that a defense isn't used to seeing. And you mentioned Gordon cutting. They have that play where Jamal Murray sets a back pick for Aaron Gordon, who's usually standing above the brake or near the wing. And then he just slices right to the rim as Yokic has the ball at the other elbow.

And he just flips it to him with perfect accuracy and precision, gets him an easy bucket at the rim. And it's just been cool to see Gordon in this role, because for so many years in Orlando, he was used in different types of roles. as a, you know, a ball handler, as a post player. He's never been in a situation like this. And, you know, you mentioned the tracking stat earlier.

I looked at some last night as well on Second Spectrum. Like in Orlando this season, Gordon average 64 touches a game compared to in Denver, 32 touches a game. So his touches him and cut in half. He's not dribbling as much either. When he does possess the ball, he logged 3.4 dribbles per touch in Orlando to 1.2 dribbles per touch right now. in Denver. And perhaps, like, most importantly is the scoring aspect is 0.9 points per chance in Orlando,

1.2 points per chance in Denver. I mean, it's just the efficiencies up because he's getting easier shots created from Murray, created from Yokochen. You have to give a guy credit for embracing that role. And I know Michael Malone said yesterday how, you know, Gordon came to Denver, not trying to stand out. He came there trying to fit in. And it's 100% the truth.

It's 100% the truth. He went there to fit in. And he's a guy embracing and shining with it. in his role. Yeah, definitely. And the play that you, the play that you pointed out, I was also noticing. And, you know, it's, I really, pick with Murray. Yeah, yeah. I really enjoy these sort of triangle action formation kinds of things because you put the defense in a situation where you have three guys trying to communicate as opposed to. And it's, we talked, we've talked a lot about how big playmakers really, you know, since they can pass over the top and Yokic having the one of the widest, I mean, he might have

the widest passing vocabulary in the world up there with like tray young with like lebron i mean it's way way up there and when you put guys like porter like murray in these situations where they are pulling gravity uphill and then you have a tremendous downhill cutter like erin gordon that's just uh that's a that's a that's a great that's a great piece for them to add and you know like we were talking about i think that this is really tough for the clippers you know i don't know what the i haven't looked at what the seating's going to play out right now, but I think that in terms of like matchups, them adding Gordon is going to be a serious problem for some teams. And, you know, I think it just, it boosted their playoff offensive flexibility.

So they faced the Clippers and Gordon had some great defensive possessions against Kauai Leonard. And we saw him do this before. It's not the first time. He did it when Kauai was in Toronto two seasons ago and Orlando had their little, you know, playoff run to the first round. Gordon played great. He had possessions against KD during that run to the playoffs against James Harden. and against Kauai in the first round. And he made it harder on it. I mean, there's only so much you can do against a future Hall of Famer, you know, of that caliber.

But what did you see from a matchup standpoint in the Denver, L.A. game or when you even just project ahead with these, with those two teams of how Denver might present challenges for whether it's the clippers or any playoff opponent. I'm curious about your thoughts there. I think it's the versatile fours like we were talking about. I think that's the, that to me is the crux of this because you, you know, you knew you had a thing that worked with with with with murray and with yokech and that two-man game is

still going to be they instinctively feed into each other and flow off of each other extremely well so and those two guys pull a lot of gravity they're versatile scores you're going to have to game plan to stop them that in and of itself is a challenge so then you're adding but then you also I really think that that the heart of it to me that is making Denver um you know a really challenging proposition for western conference teams uh on the horizon is the fact that They have this guy who is, you know, a stock that could just go to the moon at any moment in PJ. And, you know, you give extra support to Yokic defensively, too. Like we said, I think that's really important.

I think that's something that they needed to add. And then you get, you know, they're bigger guys that are athletic that can get up and challenge the rim. That can give you that backline support can make out of area plays. I think that's really big. To me, in that three, four spot, the fact that those two guys are versatile and interchangeable, I think that that is the thing that could elevate this and put it over the hump as opposed to last year where you were like, and maybe there still is going to be some of that lingering, what the hell are we going to get from Michael Border Jr. in the playoff series? I don't know, but I agree with you that he's gotten a lot better. But to me, that is a really tough thing to do. You're going to have to put three really big guys on the floor at the same time to account for those guys to go along with the shooting of, you know, because Barton can hit open shots too. We haven't even mentioned him and then Murray. Yeah, for sure. They have a lot of shot makers, a lot of guys who can beat you.

And that's the toughest thing to defend when you have four or five players in the floor who at any point can hit a three for you, attack off the dribble. And Michael Porter Jr. has been better at making the right pass off the dribble. Sometimes that's the next area of his game to develop is the passing ability. But he's gotten better. He's gotten way better. And it's a type of thing where two years ago, I was in Denver to report a feature story. And I talked to Tim Conley, who runs.

their front office. And he had a quote that he said to me about how in deciding whether to take Michael Porter Jr. or not, a friend of his or another scout said to him, well, there's no basketball risk with Michael Porter Jr. You know you're getting a guy who loves basketball, who works hard, who clearly has elite talent at 610 with shot making ability and just to be like a pure shooting stroke. There's just an injury risk. You know, like we talk so much about risk in the draft about, you know, guys might get hurt or some guys don't have a good jump shot. Some guys don't play hard on defense. Every player has their own respective risk. And the point, they, you know, from their perspective, they're like, we'll take a guy, we'll take a guy who's

head injury issues when we know that he could be the guy who's the X factor that elevates us from a nice playoff team to real serious championship contenders. And that's what's happened mid-year. I don't feel like expectations of Denver for the postseason have been recalibrated in the way that they need to. This team is a serious, serious threat. Especially if LA doesn't get healthy, the Lakers. Especially if they don't. But even if they do, even if the Lakers do get 100% healthy, this Nuggets team is a serious threat. Like, they're a matchup problem for everybody.

They really are. You know, it's funny. I've brought this up. I've kind of intentionally gone out of my way. to bolster up this Nuggets video that I never put out. But this is both like Pat myself, but also I had it wrong. I in the video was like looking at sort of the, you know, the medical chart of the Nuggets, looking at what I thought was they, I was like they need support to sort of guard the ball better,

you know, support Yokic defensively. And I was just like, they should trade for Aaron Gordon. That was one of the parts of the video specifically that I said. But I said they should trade Michael Porter Jr. Because at the time, I saw somebody that was so erratic, and I was like, is he going to stay healthy, the fit with Murray? I was like, how long is this going to continue to work? But them together, you know, assuming that MPJ continues to embrace this, continues to get better and improve, I think that it's quite a tandem. And it's worked out really well for Denver in the short returns.

We'll see how teams adjust to them, but it's good. So for years, Aaron Gordon was in Orlando. You know, last we saw him cutting and using interior patterns. was when he was in college at Arizona. Michael Porter, Jr. fell into a great situation to not be a guy who's like, I'm going to shoot 20 shots per game. He's becoming a guy that plays hard on defense and rebounds his ass off

and takes the right shots on offense. Another player who's dealt with some situation issues over the years is Zach Levine. He's in Minnesota. Now he's in Chicago. He's in the best spot of his career right now. So let's discuss how the Bulls acquisition of Nikola Vucovich is impacting Zach Levine. they haven't won a heck of a lot of games. They've won two in a row.

But I really like the way they're playing through Levine and Vooch. It's really cool. And then Thaddeus Young as well, they have two bigs who can play make for you. And Levine's getting some help here. I love the upside with this fit here. And I mean, I didn't give a grade for the last one.

I'd give that an A2. Here I'd give this. So far, in B plus and A minus so far with potential to be even way higher than that. Yeah, I was just, thinking about Vooch and Levine, it really sounds like a drive-time radio show, and that you're listening to Vooch and Levine in the morning. I don't know. W-F-A-N.

Vooch and Levine. Anyway, so. How do you like the LaVooch nickname? LaVooch. Are you a family? LaVooch. It sounds going to dirty. I don't know.

I would say, I think that's, I don't know. I call him. Dirty and what way, Kyle? We're just going to leave it alone, I think. I think we'll just leave it alone. No, I would say that, you know, early returns, like we said, are, I think that there is some growth plate on this,

on this trade that is good. It started out good, and I think it could get significantly better. One of the main things that I've, starting from the, from the, we'll trickle down from there, I think that this is an obvious, great addition for them, because what you're adding is you're adding solidified, production at volume, whereas in the past they had sort of unsolidified guys who were sort of trying

to find their footing still in the NBA. But they had two of them next to each other that were trying to do that at the same time. And that was a little bit tough for the Bulls who were near the bottom of the league in offensive braiding last year. So you're adding a guy who's versatile like Vucevich, who is it Voochovich or Vucevich? Vich. Vich. Vich. I always say Vusovich. I made the switch. I made the switch recently. and I'm feeling good about it. You feel good? Yeah, also, by the way, you're the king of pronunciation with Luca Donchich.

Luca Donchich. And I listen to your Luca video when recording my Luca video this week to get that pronunciation right. The Slovenian people appreciate it. That's what I'll say. They really do. Lublian Slovene. So, yeah, Vucievich, I think you're adding a guy who has, you know, he's fairly efficient, not much of a he's not like a high level creator i'd say at the elbow but he's a guy that can create

at the elbow he can hit shots faces up extremely well he shoots and hits threes at a higher volume than than window carter junior did uh and he and he's a little older he's 30 years old something that i've noticed is you know he's in the pick and roll obviously the levin the levin pick and roll we've talked a lot about how levin has improved we know he's a downhill score we know he can go get his shot basically whenever he wants um and he's gotten a lot more efficient at that. But, you know, in the past, Bucciovich has shot, see, I did that there, his, you know, his field goal percentage has been around 35 to 37% in the past,

or actually much higher than that, 48.9 prior to coming to the Bulls, it's like a full 10% down. He's missing a lot of shots right now in the pick and roll. So once, you know, once he gets into his comfort level and he starts shooting the ball like he can, I think that that's going to affect the way defense react to him. I think that that's going to be a good thing for the bulls across the board and continue this thing, allowed to continue to grow. And Levine's sort of in the middle of a little bit of a cold stretch here as well, shooting the ball last week or so. So as he picks it up and as Vooch starts picking it up, I think that has a real potent potential to be, you know, as a pick and roll duo.

And I noticed in the tracking data, they ran 27 pick and rolls and their win against the Pacers. And that's core in the second spectrum. And that's more in one game than Levine's had any game. this year with Vooch is 27. The previous I believe was with Thad Young. So they're averaging 18 pick and rolls per game. And that's a lot. It would rank sixth in the NBA.

And just for a reference, Chris Paul and DeAndre Aten lead with 21 per game. So they're way up there with what they're doing and what they want to do. And what I really like about it is this, we have seen Levine improve as a playmaker, but I still don't think he's going to be your guy averaging eight assists for game, seven assists per game. He's more like the type of guy who thrives in an offensive. where multiple guys are doing it. So you have Vooch doing it.

You know, hopefully White can develop over the course of time or you bring in another guy in the back court, Alonzo-esque type of guy who's a low-maintenance ball handler, but still makes place for teammates. Patrick Williams, I still think he's the key to this whole thing. Definitely. Yeah, the key in the sense that if they are to become a championship team this decade, it'll be because Patrick Williams develops into a star-level talent

or a guy that's a near-level star talent. So he can even pass a little bit off the dribble for you, too. He's not a primary guy, but he can make the right decisions. They brought in Troy Brown. Another guy, big jumbo guard who can play, you know, playing the pick and roll for you, make quick passes, quick decision-maker. They have a lot of talent.

A lot of guys who can make the right play. And the pieces feel like they're starting to fall in place in Chicago. They went from a team where a lot of nice young players that didn't fit to a team that makes some sense on paper. Yeah, I mean, the sanity that is visible in their sort of transaction, their recent transactional history as opposed to the things that Bulls had, Bulls fans had to put up with in the past. Car packs. Yeah, it's been, it's been very noticeable. And I think that, you know, I think that the Pat Williams pick was, I was a little softer on him than a lot of people, but I've come around

to that. I think that his upside, I think that his playmaking upside, I don't know that he's ever going be like a heavy volume type guy, but I don't know that he necessarily needs to be a superstar for them to hit their potential in the way that they in the way that they could. So yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I think that he is sort of the lingering X factor. And I kind of like that's that young is around too to support because I feel like he's a pretty good mentor for the type of player that Pat could grow into, sort of a guy that's going to provide you a lot of playmaking, efficient scoring and can be a really versatile defensive type piece. Yeah, I like that. Got Daniel Tice, too.

Older guy who's starting for Boston. I didn't love Daniel Tice as a starting center. I love Daniel Tice as a backup center. Perfect for him. It's weird to see him in that Bulls uniform, isn't it? I was really thrown off by that. I was like, no, no, you wear green, my man. Like, you just, I don't know.

But the Bulls occasionally wear green, which is weird when the Bulls wear green. Super weird. It's very weird. One other thought on the Bulls. What do you think about Larry Mark and in getting experimented with playing the three? I wanted to say something really quick about uniform. I think that would be among my least favorite alternate color, like, you know, really weird off the ball, oddball color.

The orange looks good for the magic. You've seen that one, right? I mean, the orange looks good, it looks good, but it's kind of weird. I don't know. It's weird, but it looks good. And I really don't like the pacer heat thing. I don't like the pacer color thing that the heat we're doing. I mean, I just don't.

Why are we doing that? I don't know. Go with the Miami Floridian's colors. Miami Heat. Anyway, so yeah, with Lowry, Yeah, I mean, moving him, I think that the returns are going to have to show me a little bit more in that sense. I think that he is a guy that, do you still think that he's long for Chicago? Is he a guy that you could see?

Yeah. It seems like, yeah, that's kind of where I am. I was just like, yeah, I mean, it's nice to keep his shooting on the floor, maybe give him, like we said, you're adding a little bit more experience and gravity that he could feed off of with the Levine Vooch thing. and then adding Williams. It's just something's not sitting right in the pit of my stomach with the Lowry thing. I'm with you there. It's nice to see the experimentation putting him at the three, but he's got it shredded on the defensive end of the floor,

and he's unable to take advantage of his size advantage that he has on some smaller guys because he's not an interior player. He's not a rebounder. I mean, he plays like he's a foot shorter than he actually is a lot of the time. You can't do that. Yeah. And it's he just gets picked on. drop cut like he really is slow moving north south backwards and he doesn't get off his feet quickly

and then you know you got to add a lot on the other end to overcome those types of things you know i still think there's a role for him in the NBA i just don't think it's in chicago and and similar for the guy that they traded to orlando wendell carter junior who's been pretty solid so far with the magic he's still not shooting the ball well but he's averaging 15 points per game nine rebounds two assists two blocks looking pretty good with orlando what's of your early takeaways for Wendell Carter and his new situation down in Orlando? Orlando is very in flux right now, which is good. That's fine. Be bad. Go ahead and just be bad. Tank, baby. Just be bad. Do it. There's wisdom in being bad sometimes. You know, I've always liked

Wendell. He has those types of skills that are just alluring to my philosophy for basketball. I really think that he has good face-up touch. He gives you a little more room protection than you would maybe get with a player who has that kind of touch. I've always seen him as a guy who, and we've seen some glimpses of some, you know, primary kind of, when I say primary, I don't mean like massive load. I just mean, you know, he's a guy that could give you a solid amount of playmaking for the offense that he provides. You know, he's had, he's been 65.7 true shooting. And Orlando's three and two. I mean, they got absolutely demolished the night by Utah, which was pretty rough. But I think that it's another thing where it's, it's an income.

complete puzzle. But I don't know. At what point are we going to stop looking at Wendell and being like, he just seems like one of those like I'm going to hold on to his stock for like 10 years type players, just because I just believe in ball skills and he's shown me that since he was in high school. I famously had him, not famously, maybe notoriously in my world, had him ahead of Jaron Jackson coming into the draft. So maybe I have a little vested interest in him panning out. But I've always kind of believed in Wendell. What about you? Yeah, I've always believed. I had him ahead of Bagley and their draft class together. And I mean, we'll see how that works out.

Bagley still has some on top potential. Wendell Carter does too. So with Orlando now, I think he's going to get the responsibility and the touches and the opportunity that he may not have consistently received moving forward in Chicago, which, you know, he didn't do well with it. The past coaches, past systems. But with Orlando, I like what I'm seeing so far early on. It's, you know, a long way to go.

here guys are in and out of that lineup. But the magic in some ways, they traded Aaron Gordon, they traded Nicola Vuccivic, they've had some quality, they traded Evan Fournier, they've had good individual players that just didn't fit together. It feels like they're in that situation

still just with younger guys where it's like there's clearly a lot of talent on this team, including some of the guys that are injured, Jonathan Isaac, Markell Foltz. They have Col Anthony on that team. They have Chuma O'Kiki. I mean, Chuma, you wanted to talk about him.

Chuma. Chuma. Great. Oh, my goodness. Chuma. Last seven games, 16 points per game, six rebounds, three assists, 47% of three, doing it all on the floor, playing hard on defense. What is there not to love about Chuma, O'Keekeke, Kyle?

Very little not to love about Chuma. Also, one of the better first names in the league, I would say, I looked it up, actually, in some places, Chuma means prosperity. Oh. Anyway, so Chuma, Chuma is a guy. I mean, he was like, towards ACL. like we said. So we've had a delayed start with him. He tore his ACL in the 2019 tournament. So we're just now, you know, and his minutes have really ramped up in these past seven games,

and he's taking the responsibility. He and Wendell have kind of, you know, cut their teeth a little bit together. They've had, they've had plenty of pick and roll that I've seen from them in the early goings here. You know, he's shooting, I had 47 percent from three on four point three attempts. You know, he's a guy that can hit open shots. I think for him to, he is great size. That's something that really jumped out to me. I was watching the Magic play the Nuggets the other night, and he attacked a closeout against Michael Green, and I was just like, they're like the same size.

Like Chuma is a big dude. Rebounds his position really well. I think for him to, he seems like he's in the early stages of still, you know, upping his comfort level in traffic. For a lot of rookies, you'll see that from rookie bigs. We'll see that from a hawks big guy that we're going to talk about, briefly, I think, here in a minute. Yeah, he's a guy that I

could see. He has a lot of, to use that word again, growth plate in his game, where he's already a solid, semi-dependable spot-up guy who could grow into sort of like a secondary tertiary creator for you, if things work out well for the magic. Before we move on to talk about the draft, let's just hit a couple

of things that happened on Tuesday night's game. The Hawks have now won four in a row after beating the pelicans. They beat the spurs, warriors, pelicans twice. They get the grizzlies up on Wednesday. You know, Trey Young and Bogdan Bogdanovich are finding a nice balance together. I love the way Bogdanovich is being utilized and off that bench, really running the offense when Trey's not on the floor.

It's nice to see that. And also, Kyle, we're seeing their rookie big man get some consistent minutes now. On Yek A. Okongru out of USC. How have you viewed his game? How did you view his game prior to the draft and how have you seen him perform midway through his rookie year after missing some time earlier with that injury? Yeah, I mean, it was it was funny for me to sort of, observe. I didn't really weigh in a ton on Kongwu going up to the draft. I try to,

I try to keep some of that stuff. I wait to see everything together before I go way too in unless I really, really believe in a guy. But a Kongwu, you know, people were going really hard on the BAM comparisons. I was not on that train at all. I think I was, I was a little lower on him than some people, but I did like him. You know, he's a guy that when I was watching some of his tape before, you know, in his time kind of trying to get acclimated with the hawk. Now, Collins being out has kind of provided an opportunity for O'Conwo to get in and get some time. You know, things that are translating, his hands, he is fantastic hands. I know you make fun of me for the hand thing.

I don't know if it's necessarily a hand size thing is he just has terrific accuracy and strength in his hands. And that has really, you know, if he goes into traffic and there's a ball up or grabs, defensive situations, he's really strong in that sense. he is he seems a little spatially um like he's getting comfortable still in the in the NBA game to me maybe moving a little bit fast like in traffic he he gets he gets in trouble easily uh but and like nola's length the other night new Orleans is uh the pelicans length uh seem to be giving him some trouble here and there he got to going against their their second unit but um i like a congou i just don't uh i think i've maybe come down from him being like uh

I don't know if he's necessarily on the level of an anchor. I kind of had him more as sort of like in the range of like good Tristan Thompson. That's where I had him. What do you think? Physically he moves like Tristan to me. That's what he reminds me of. When you say good Tristan Thompson, I mean, Tristan Thompson is solid, you know, one of finals, you know, played some high level playoff basketball. So it's no knock on him.

When you said good Tristan Thompson, yeah, you mean that as a compliment. Right? Like an even better version of a Tristan Thompson. Yeah, there's an aftertaste, I think, for people when you say some names. I'm talking about the iter—there have been some iterations of Tristan Thompson that have been fantastic. If you get compared to—I went through the same thing with Darius Garland. I compared him and I was like, this guy could be a Jason Terry type, and people got outraged. He's like, no, I just—I don't know that his impact could be as wide-spanning as BAM because I just don't see him as the same type of twitchy athlete. But, you know, we're in the early goings.

And he's a great guy to a switchable, you know, three, four, five type guy that could, to support Trey. Did you see BAMB switch onto Stefan Curry the other night? He did that when he was a rookie. Yeah, he did it when he was a rookie. And like, he's gotten even better over the years. I mean, Bam's versatility is truly remarkable to watch. And like, I believe I had Bam as a comp to O'Kongru in the draft guide last year.

And like, it didn't sit great with me. It was just, it's hard to find some. for him because he does have some versatility. It's just, it's more shades of, like maybe like a BAM light. And there's nothing wrong with that. If that's what you turn out to be, BAM is a sensational player. We can argue about comps. Kof, CEC.

I'm not afraid. We should, we should totally embrace the comp arguments. You get the comp cloud. Time drop days. We'll pull a comp flat out for sure. One other quick thing on the other side of that matchup last night, Pelicans have lost three in a row now. Zion dominating.

He's scored 20 plus points. on 50% shooting or better for the 25th straight game that ties shack for the longest streak since 1954, 55. He's 6.6. I feel like we do this every other episode. Zion's baseline for normalcy is like warm bathwater. You know how you sit? You're just like, man, it's not really. It's you've changed. It's like the hot water that is his efficiency is like, like the other night he was 12 or 18 on 75.9. true shooting. He does that all the time. That's what's amazing. Like he he's just an insanely efficient player. He gets easy buckets, doesn't miss layups, it's super explosive. Zion's a special player. And sort of a new mold, honestly. I mean, that goes without saying, I mean, Zion is an aberration in terms of the things that we've seen in the past in the NBA. And, you know, hope they keep building around him. I hope so as well. We saw Isaiah Thomas signed a 10-day contract

with the Pelicans. He made his debut last night, 10 points on 4 of 13 shooting. He had 8 straight in the first half. I'm not worried about the 4 for 13. It's his first NBA game in quite some time now. Isaiah. He got 13 shots. Wow. I'm very happy to see Isaiah back in the court. I did want to talk real quick about Jackson Hayes. Did you see his game earlier this week? Some of the stuff he was doing off the dribble with the ball in his hands. Which one? I believe the game against the Rockets. I don't know if I saw the specific plays that you're talking about. I mean, which which one's what jumped out to you.

Handling the ball on the open floor, hitting a quarter three, he just like the athletic is, the raw athleticism that people have talked about since he was at Texas. Yeah. Is manifesting a little bit in an NBA setting. And like,

you know, you just talk about outliers, how Zion is his own player. Isaiah Thomas at 5.9 and a half has managed to be, he was a top five NBA candidate at one point. He was an outlier. Jackson Hayes in his own way is an outlier. He's a very funky player in that mix for the New Orleans

Pelicans where they have a handful of those guys. They burn an ingram even. Tall, lean and skinny, you know, very lean frame. They have a lot of, like, that's what makes basketball cool. Just all these dramatically different players of different shapes and sizes. And Jackson Hayes being the elite athlete that he is, used to play wide receiver in high school. I mean, in another world, maybe he's a six foot 10 wide receiver. Can you imagine him taking a serious hit from a serious player? Yeah, I was just thinking all kinds of cons. I forget what country son that is. But, you know, I actually, I drove an Uber one time for the guy who used to train Jackson Hayes. Yeah, little story.

There's really not much else to it. He had had a great time that night. And we were just talking about Jackson Hayes. But, you know, he's always a guy who just, you're right. He's, he's funky. And he's coming along slowly. He's a type that I think he's just kind of lying in the weeds a little bit in terms of the attention that he gets. And it's a good asset for New Orleans to have sitting there.

And I think that he could, I always thought that he could become a Jared Allen type guy, like a guy who could really fly around, you know, as his positional, I mean, in terms of like quality rim protection. And like you said, if he's going to start adding spot up threes, I don't know about creation, you know, I think his opportunities, it's not going to be necessary. It's just not going to be necessary, I don't think. But, you know, vertical space are really springy, really long, good athlete. It's a nice, it's a nice asset for New Orleans to have.

You said you drove Uber before? Oh, yeah, man. I drove, I was like I should have written a book about it. Do you want to hear one story? Yeah. Well, yes, yes, because I love just chatting with Uber drivers. I chat with every single one of them. Every single one of them.

I love it. I've had some pretty really good ones and some really bad ones. My very first Uber trip that I did was on the Kentucky Derby. And so I drove out like really the edge of town pull up to this house. obviously like kids in early college. I call them kids. And they were like wearing like, you know, vineyard vine stuff sitting around,

standing around drinking Bud Light. It's 10 in the morning. They get in the car. We're probably to you. It's Derby. They get in the car and I look in the back and, you know, they start talking to me. They're obviously already drunk.

We get like a minute into the drive and there's this, I hear this voice from the back. There's four people in my backseat. And this guy goes, you turn the air on and roll the windows down. Oh, no. I see this guy in the rear of you mirror. he's wide as a ghost he's sweating he's like six four just sweating and uh so we're sitting in

traffic and i i just hear him projectile vomit out the side of my window this is your your first ride first trip your first trip you kidding me i almost made him i was started to just boot them out right then because we were like on an overpass i couldn't have but i it was like it was pretty pretty rough but i ended up coming out ahead got my car detailed and i got back out and back at it but yeah that's uber is always interesting you know it's uh it's a what's that just first trip you had that experience yeah i had a guy unbelievable i had a guy try to he i've had somebody try to get me to help him pull his like passed out wife out of the car there's you just end up with a lot of different funny stories it's it's it's a funny job it really is shout out to uber

great deep life conversations with uber drivers just about whatever comes to mind however the station goes. It's great, man. You know how we did the thing like shout us out if you were doing the snow shoveling thing? Shout us out if you're a new driver and you listen to the pod. I want to hear from you. Tell us the story. Yes, we do. One other quick thing on last night's game, the Grizzles beat the heat. Dylan Brooks had a 23 point quarter. I wanted to just quickly mention we saw a lineup last night, Kyle, where we saw Desmond Bain, Xavier Tillman and Killian Tilly on the floor at the same it was a thing of beauty for anybody who's like a draft geek

or just a basketball geek period it was wonderful. It was the it's it was the Thanos meme where he adds the last stone and he's infinitely powerful. That was NBA draft. I was saying that like that was draft Twitter seeing that line up on the floor. I was going to say too that like the grizzlies drafting it just seems like it doesn't matter where they pick.

They just seem to have you ever heard of task bot it's like this video game algorithm thing. it's this thing that it's an algorithm that knows how to it figures out video games and plays them really efficiently you can go look it up on youtube they have mario card task bot that's what the grizzlies me of it's like okay they got a pick in the 20s here ah surely there's not much value here they got a pick in the second round they pick up killie and tilly which i liked at the time i mean tilly tilly's a guy that i think could eventually play um in some capacity so yeah i mean that's hilarious and desmond bane long time desmond bain hive obviously it was their third

game playing together at once. They have a 146 offensive rating and an 84 defensive rating. Oh my God. 18 minutes of play, not a small sample size at all, but I'm excited to see a lot more of that in the coming weeks towards the end of the season. We'll be back after the break talking about the NBA draft. So we just talked a little bit about Killian Tilly, Gonzaga, the team he played for in college lost the national championship against Baylor 86 to 70.

We watched that game on Monday night, Kyle. So we're going to look at that game through the NBA draft lens with a little game of stock up, stock down, or maybe no change in some cases about some of the players that were in that NCAA men's tournament national championship game. Let's start off with Davian Mitchell, six foot two guard from Baylor. Been some talk about him with a tournament he had that he could be a lottery pick. is his stock up that far in your eyes, Kyle, with Davion Mitchell? I mean, he definitely solidified himself, in my view, as somebody.

I really, I was really encouraged by what I saw. I really enjoyed his. Baylor kind of had this in spades across their roster and the fact that they just had this really, this sort of self-assuredness and confidence in the way that they attack. You know, and I think that Davion is a really versatile player. I think he projects as somebody he guards his ass off. I think that he's somebody that could give you rotation, scoring, creation, shot making. I mean, he was torching Drew Timmy.

He was opening some gaps when Drew Timmy was trying to guard him on the ball. I mean, that Suez Canal ship could have, like, turned around in. They were that wide. It was like, did you not follow that story at all? Did that reference not land with you, KOC? the Suez Canal? The ship? I'm disappointed in your

current affairs knowledge there. Anyway, a big ship, big holes. I am, I am, oh, wow, I see it now this morning. Wow. No, no, that's an old story. Ship got stuck. Oh.

That's the headline. Wait, what? No, did you not see when the ship and the Suez Canal got stuck sideways and it couldn't turn around? No. Oh, my God, whatever. That was just such a digression.

Davy on Mitchell I definitely I only consume basketball Kyle I know I don't know how you do it I watch a lot and I don't know that's Kevin's superpower

folks he literally has a superpower I watch all the time and I still don't know how Kevin does it so Davy on Mitchell yes I mean I think you're absolutely justified

and in your right mind to draft him you know at least late lottery and I know that like I was kind of looking at some of the big boards for him and you know I saw Dan Devine

and our Slack was talking about how he hopes that he falls to the to the nicks in the mid or late first round late first round it just ain't happen i just don't see i don't see him lasting that long because he is a modern NBA player now in terms of size i mean you know he's not um he's not super big you know at six with two but he's a guy who i think that he could be an on ball pressure type guy somebody that could definitely add punch to your rotation on both sides of the ball and and and create shots and playmaking and score i'm playing devil's advocate here.

He shot 66% from the free throw line in three years in college, 45% from 3% from 3% this season, way up from 32% as a sophomore, and 29% as a freshman. Are we to believe that he's going to continue to be a high 30% or a low 40% 3-point shooter when his free throw percentage is still sub 70%? Or are there any indicators in what he did this season in terms of shooting form or anything like that or is there anything that gives you confidence that a six foot two guard can continue to ascend upward, trend upward with his shooting? Forty-five is insanely high. I mean, in terms of we would have to go in and kind of look at the sample in terms of where he's shooting from when he's

shooting on the move, how much of that was on the, you know, off the catch, things like that. I think, you know, he creates a lot for himself, at least he did in the tournament really well, really capably. I think that, you know, maybe not 45. You know, like as that line, a lot of guys kind of have an adjustment period, especially guys in the lower six foot range who are going to have to generate a little more power and it's not maybe not necessarily going to be as easy. And that's something that I would have to.

I am so confident of him as it's not going to drop to the point that's going to concern me into like not wanting him if I'm picking that range. because if you give me a guy that really is interested in guarding the ball, that's the thing about Baylor is like, and Charks said this too, is that they had a collection of guys who were on their second stop and didn't really have any disillusions about who they were. They were guys that came in and bought in to team defending. If you watch that game, I mean, they were just terrifying how well they defended as a team.

So that's the thing that's not going to be foreign to him. In terms of the shooting, it could come down some. I don't know. I don't expect it to plummet, though. I think that he's a good enough shooter that I think it'll be, good enough. But we're both stock up for sure with him, right? Yep.

How about Jaylen Suggs had the moment of the tournament, of course, top five pick before the year, still a top five pick now, or is there any chance that he pushes top two? I saw somebody saying he wasn't, he was fringe top 10 coming into the league or into the year. I was just like, what the hell are you talking about my guy? I believe almost everywhere had him top five in terms of the internet. I believe everybody I've talked to in the NBA had him. Yeah, he's a top five guy. I think that was just an erroneous comment.

I think my question for you, I was going in and kind of looking at big boards, and I saw that you had, you keep turning this on me, I'm turning this on you. So you have Jalen Green ahead of Jalen Suggs in your ringer draft guide. I mean, I think that's the interesting question for me. Where do you, do you think that that dynamic changed at all? Because I'll just tell you, there's no, go ahead, go ahead. I'll let you answer. I mean, we'll see how it pans out.

I don't, when I do my rankings, they're very fluid early on. Okay. And three, four, five, like, that's going to be shaken up at any moment. Um, because so much of it. And I think, let's just tie this to last year. I had Killian Hayes rank number one. Mistake.

Mistake. I still think anybody who's talking about Killian Hayes, what he did after seven games is silly and short-sighted. I haven't responded to a single message to me about killing and Hayes for that reason. By the way, his last two games of Detroit looks great as a passer. Really good as a passer. There's a big asterist. He isn't played.

But the, of course, but the, I think, I think where I missed with Lamello and not having him number one. And a lot of people didn't have him number one, but was the character aspect. Talked about in the void video and we brought on Mirren Fader to talk about his character and who he is as a person. And to me, I'm still learning about who these players are as people and what matters to them and how they work, what they prioritize. And that information can be hard to find. Sometimes there's a lot of misinformation out there. with Jalen Suggs, one of the encouraging thing is, is everything that's out there is A plus, A plus in terms of character.

You can see it yourself on the court, just observing the way he plays with the attitude and the intensity. I mean, I thought his quote after the game, he's like, I always want to jump up on the table like, do you wait? He is somebody who everything I've heard about him, he like eats, you know, wakes up, thinks about basketball, everything's basketball, and he wants to be the best player that he can be. and he works smart and he works hard.

So, like, there's some guys to just get in the gym and put up hundreds of shots, but they're not working smart. I think Jayling Suggs is the type of guy who works smart. So it wouldn't shock me if I do move him ahead of Jalen Green at some point. With Jalen Green, I do just like the progress that we saw over the course of the season with the Ignite. I thought he made subtle improvements with his passing, subtle improvements with his decision-making. And, you know, he fared well on a tough league. You know, the G-League is no joke.

There's some solid talent down there. grown men down there as well in their late 20s and even in their 30s. So I was very impressed with Jalen Green's performance. And those guys to me are neck and neck. It's in many ways it's about your team fit. And that's the challenge with big boards. You know, in general, like we do public big boards and they're general big boards. But the truth is is that just like we talked about earlier in the conversation with Aaron Gordon or

with Zach Levine, there's certain guys that I would have ranked higher for certain teams than I would for others, you know, depending on the situation that they're going into. So for them, it's close to answer your question. I wouldn't read too much into three or four between them, but Suggs, to me, he is in the same place he was before. This is the guy he always was and probably always will be. He's going to be a success. It's just a matter of what heights he reaches. Yeah. I think, you know, sort of range of range of applicability in terms of like the player, where do they fit at the highest level the most? Who fits at a high level, the most? Who fits at a high level, the most consistently. And for me, I mean, I may live to regret this, but I can't imagine a scenario

where I wouldn't take Suggs over Green. I just think that he had a chance to submit, really, he didn't really show me anything that I didn't already know. There were some situations where he could have assert asserted himself offensively earlier on, but Gonzaga was humming offensively so well that it didn't necessarily matter. And you saw his minutes and his touches and his attempts and things and his sort of primacy go up as the tournament went along. I mean, we were talking about, I mean, I've seen the Drew Holiday comp really become ubiquitous. Like, it's everywhere. Early on, it was like, you saw it here and there, but it's like pretty consistently people are like, this is a Drew Holiday type player. But I do see some sort of

Genesecois in his game that could separate him and give him some plus plus, as I always say, you know, possibility in his game. And I think that he's definitely a guy who has a lot of interest in on-ball defense. I think he takes big tasks. I think that he sees big moments and seizes them. He's unfazed by them. We saw that in the UCLA game where he basically manned up and made the big plays to end that game. I mean, can you think of another sequence from a prospect that was more impressive than him switching and guarding that ball? I mean, he had to get into area to block that.

That wasn't his man initially. I mean, he rotated and made the play without missing a beat. He turns around, pushes in transition. and makes like an Isaiah Thomas 50 foot bounce pass for a dunk. I can't remember a prospect making a play like that on a stage like that in the past 10 years. Nothing comes to mind. For me neither. I don't have a great memory, so not the best person to ask.

You didn't even know about the Suez Canal. I was thinking like Anthony, you know, bringing back to Kentucky as I'm apt to do, you know, Anthony Davis in the final four in 2012 had some pretty amazing sequences. where he, you know, was protecting the rim, making wild out of area blocks, and then coming down. And I remember there's a clip where he made, like, a fallaway lefty baby hook over Gorgie Zhang. And Steve Kerr was like, oh, my, like, he started laughing because it was so ridiculous. But, yeah, Suggs, the question for him for me is, like, where does he go?

Does he go ahead of Cunningham? I really like him a lot. I think you could come away from the draft feeling pretty damn good about yourself if you end up with Jaylon Suggs, because I think he's a special talent. And he showed his it factor, which is you love to see. For sure. And I would say for him, stock up, even if that doesn't actually mean he gets drafted higher. The view of him has increased because of the production level in that tournament and the whole season for that matter.

His teammate, Corey Kisper, not so sure that we can say the same thing about him. He looked overmash athletically at times to not shoot the ball, even was hesitant in certain moments shooting the ball. I had him right as a mid-lottery pick. I'm not sure where you had him, Kyle, but how has your perspective evolved about Corey Kisperd? I think the play where he went to shoot the ball and just sort of ejected mid shot, mid shot,

I thought that was the emblematic play of the game. I think that he's, the thing about Kisper to me is you got to kind of project what his role is going to be like. I think that, you know, Baylor was able to load up on Gonzaga in some ways that he probably won't be facing in the NBA. I think, you know, Kisbert is, Kisprin definitely had some, I'm sure that was an eye-opening experience for him in terms of the pressure because the closeouts, the speed, how quickly you have to shoot the ball and accurately to stay on the floor if you're not going to be a plus, if you can't keep your head above the water, you know, defensively.

Is he going to be like a Doug McDermott type, somebody who can, you can pepper in these actions and somebody that can shoot cold? That's another thing for players like him because his usage rate isn't going to be high, but we've seen him shoot fast and at vault. volume efficiently and that's good and that's a that's a role in the NBA that just gets more and more useful. So yeah, I think I think it came down, but also I think that the sample here is a little misleading because if you're expecting him to come in and be like a high usage guy in the NBA, just not going to happen. How much do you value clutchness from what you see in March madness in terms of when you're evaluating ahead with a player? I think that you put it in the pot. I think that you, I would be careful not to overanalyze it because just clutch for clutch

sake doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot. You know, like I know that, you know, like Aaron Harrison made big shot after big shot. He couldn't stick in the NBA at all. It's really just a thing that I think that you tack on to guys that you're already considering. I think it's a differentiating variable that you tack on to guys who are close. You know, how is this guy a fearless guy? Does he shrink from the moment? Things like that. I think it's important. I, but I think that you have to be extremely careful about it. You know, he made big plays. If Suggs had disappeared and gotten super nervous,

I think that that is something that you take into account. I don't, but I would say the fact that he showed it to me is more valuable than if he had maybe not done it, you know, like I wouldn't read too much into it if he didn't make the big plays. But the fact that he did, does that make sense?

Like, I think the omission of it isn't as big a deal as the commission. Yeah. Sure. That makes sense today. Because even the most clutch players, in league history miss sometimes. And it's such a small sample in March madness

that if you happen to see a guy miss two times, he might hit the next eight chances that he gets in those clutch moments. You can't overvalue it necessarily. And also this year is a little bit different. They didn't play with the big crowds, the craziness, the fans in the stands, the pressure of having like your whole family

and all your friends there, everything that comes with it. I don't think this year matters even quite as much if you're throwing in the pot, like you said, there's not as many ingredients to throw in. You don't have it as much this year. Whereas past years, you know, I had a great conversation with an executive a couple years ago

and he's like, people, his perspective is that college basketball, scouting college basketball is important because of these pressure aspects that he likes to see guys and like playing at Duke on the road with the Cameron crazy's there and dealing with that attention and dealing with that pressure

because that's what it doesn't exactly replicate the NBA live environment, but it can in some ways show how a guy deals with pressure, period. And there's different types of pressure in the NBA when you're making so much money and you have so many people in your life and all that. That's sort of his perspective there in terms of on court, off court. So I did miss that personally in college basketball this year, not having that, especially missing in the tournament. I don't weigh it a lot, but I do think it's nice to see.

guy and how with how he deals with pressure in those moments. So I don't value it a lot, just like you said, Kyle, throw it in the pot. It's part of the, part of the evaluation, but it's not going to necessarily change everything. And I would tack on there, too, that you Suggs has shown us this in the past. He's a killer. Like, you know, in high school, at mini, he, he regularly, repeatedly, you put him on the big stage. The NBA, we've said this a million times. The NBA is, if you're going to interface with the NBA and be successful, you need to be an active and attentive thinker in real time. There's no place.

It's very difficult to be a great defender if you're not, if you're not one, that type of player. And I think that Suggs is. And he shows me that I think that he's a guy who is going to pick things up quickly. I think that he's, like we said, he's focused,

he's active, he's competitive, you know. I like guys that give a shit. I really do. I'm sorry to curse there, but I do. I just like,

I like that. So, yeah. So I'm encouraged by what I, And just real quick, Jared Butler on Baylor, we talked about him on our show two weeks ago as a guy to watch. I would say no stock change for him. Solid guard can be a spark plug for you. I like the way he plays.

Drew Timmy with Gonzaga making their run to the tournament final. He did get some more attention as a draft prospect. Where are you at with Timmy, Kyle? I guess this is kind of a question of where you were before. He hasn't really moved much. I mean, it kind of sunk in more. It sunk me more into where I. was. You know, defensively, he was picked on. I mean, clearly Baylor came into that game,

knowing that they could put him in a variety, like, it didn't really matter what kind of ball screen coverage they put him in. He was too, we talked about Lowry's North South Speed. I mean, Timmy just got absolutely frozen a few times. Like Mitchell picked on him. It was unbelievable. Now, he was probably a little overwhelmed. He's, you know, he's going to have to become acclimated to. I've called Timmy Swag-Kaminski all year. That's kind of, But I was talking with a mutual friend about this that, you know, I think that even even Kaminsky, I think, was a little more prepared. I think that I haven't really moved, I would say. You know, I was I was kind of already kind of skeptical about what he would be going forward.

Good college player, really good college player. But I haven't really moved on him. I'm lower on him. I'm with you. I'm with you, Kyle. No change for me. And when you say no change, you mean. second round pick. Oh, yeah. I mean, if that, yeah. If that, yes. He's a liability.

You can't put him in a serious basketball game right now in that sense, because what we saw Baylor do is what NBA playoff teams do times two, three. Exactly. And he's the type of guy with some of the talent level that's there worth an opportunity, you know, get him an opportunity in G-League or overseas and maybe down the line that athleticism improves and he can turn into something but as of now without a knockdown perimeter shot like you mentioned frank kiminski earlier like he could shoot it yeah he could shoot it and without that without the reliable defense it's really hard to carve out a role in the NBA any other thoughts about baler or about gonzaga or about anything that we saw in the tournament call oh man I think the other one was

Johnny juzang we were talking about him has he moved ahead I mean I think I don't know how you in your right mind could well I could see how I could see how I just think that juizang showed us a lot of things that we didn't see in the past, you know, as a Kentucky van, I've lamented that a whole lot online and elsewhere late at night. He just showed a lot of, a lot more wiggle off the dribble. He showed a lot more competence attack in the rim, you know, pull-up shot ability, shot creation. They couldn't stop him, you know, and he ramped that up as the year. He got, it could be a case of in an especially good tournament, but I think he showed things that weren't aberrational. I think Zhu Zhang is an NBA player.

think he's moved into that conversation where I was skeptical about that in the past. And one other quick thought here with Mitchell, Kisperts, Suggs, Butler 2, they feel like the types of guys that could fit anywhere for the most part. They're the types of players where like we could have a conversation about, well, which team does this guy fit on the most? But they seem like the type of players, at least in my opinion, where they can fit into anywhere, you know? Do you feel the same there, Kyle?

Well, I think they feel that way because they are not in the echelon of, did you include Suggs? You were saying Kispert. Suggs, Mitchell, Kispert, Baller, those four. Well, yeah, I mean, they can fit anywhere. They add things that you need everywhere. I mean, that's, that's kind of the question. And it's like, they're not going to be pieces that, like, are going to clash necessarily with, you know, they're not heavily compartmentalized. Like, I think that you could play Suggs easily with another big guard.

You could easily play him with Shea Gildes, Gildes Alexander. or you could play them with Fox and Halbert and things like that. Like maybe those two would be a little tougher. But, and yeah, I think that's why they're not, they're not as necessarily going to run into like on-court dissonance the way other prospects might. We'll be back in two weeks, Kyle. Two weeks goes by quickly in some ways,

but it feels like forever in others, doesn't it? That's sort of the whole past year. It feels like forever for me to wait to smell your digital musk on this call. It's hard for me. It's a lot of time. sitting around just pining for the chance to see KOC. The legend of star. He's a star, folks.

I always miss your hats, Kyle. You got a Florida Marlins hat on right now. Yeah. 97 World Series. It does. It pops. I dig it, man. Marlins seem to win a World Series every, what, five, ten years?

This is probably around the time I stopped watching baseball. So I don't know. I couldn't tell you. Yeah, I mean, they're the Miami Marlins now for that mile. right. Their gears is not as cool. I'm a Florida. Florida Marlins.

So this is how much I pay attention to baseball these days. They last one in World Series in 03. That's like my 09 brain talking. They won a 97. They won an 03. Haven't even been to the playoffs. Got 09 brain, boy. I sure do, man.

They lost in the NLDS in 2020. It's been a long time for the Miami Marlins. Too bad. Yep. sure has. Why did you stop watching baseball, Kyle? Any reason? Did you just fall in love

basketball deeper or any reason? Because baseball was my first sport that I really loved. Me too. When I was really little, baseball was my thing. And then I always say my Big Bang basketball moment

was the 92 Olympics. That's how old I am. But I think it was probably around, you know, whenever it was like the Sox, Yankees rivalry when it hit the big fever pitch to quote the movie.

I think when it hit its apex there, in like 0405, 0607. I just, I don't know. I got disinterested in it and wasn't really watching it as much and just fell away from it. I can't really give you an answer. I don't know. Yeah, it's weird how that happens. It happened with Dragon Ball Z for me.

Happened with baseball. All around the same time, really. I used to love baseball so much. It seems like baseball's in a great spot right now, though. I saw June Lee at ESPN had a great article about how, you know, the culture has changed, a lot more excitement, players, booing who they are, bat flips. you know, more emotion in the game. That's what baseball needs.

Yeah. Like basketball. Baseball is like this old, like among the sports, it feels like the conservative sport where they just hold the line. They're like, we will not evolve. Hold the line. You know, there's all these old kind of coded like rules and traditions and respect the game and stuff like that.

And it's nice to see them like a more modern mindset, you know, infuse those fun things into the game and let it grow. And it seems like they have some promising young stars. Innovation is fun. And that's what makes basketball, such a, the NBA, especially, such a great sport to follow with different styles, different types of players. And I look forward to talking more about those players with you again in two weeks, Kyle. It'll be too long, but I will wait. I'll take the punishment of waiting to hear from you again, Kevin.

And it was good. Thanks. And a special thanks to Isaiah Blakely for producing today's episode of Ringer NBA University. If you liked the pod, please give us a rating and review on iTunes or give it follow us on Spotify or wherever else you get your podcast. We always appreciate the feedback. Thank you again for listening. I hope you have a fun day.