The Ringer NBA Show - Raja and Logan Expose Their Worst Takes From the Season | Real Ones

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

Logan and Raja open by talking about the rumors swirling around Damian Lillard and his future with the Portland Trail Blazers before parsing through their takes from the start of the season that aged the worst (3:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You may find this hard to believe, but 60 songs that explain the 90s, America's favorite poorly named music podcast is back. With 30 more songs than 120 songs total. I'm your host, Rob Harvilla, here to bring you more shrewd musical analysis, poignant nostalgic reveries, crude personal anecdotes, and rad special guests, all with even less restraint than usual. Join us once more on 60 Saws That Explain the 90s every Wednesday on Spotify. What's popping?

Real one's Logan Murdoch. Raja Bell. Raja, we have officially entered the dog days of the off-season. Only bit of news that we have is from our friend Sam Amick who says that Damian

Lillard will be meeting with Blazers Brass to talk about his future. Miami is in the conversation. I mean, if you want to hear our old albums, go listen to the old albums, okay? We'll just say, give you this preview. Dame, just take your ass to Miami, bro. Just go to Miami or leave or just leave Portland.

That's really all the analysis that I have for this, Roger. That's all I have. Yeah, I mean, we've been here, we've done that. I appreciate Portland as a town, as a fan base, as a fucking organization. Like, all that can be true. And it can also be true that if Dame has any shot at winning a championship, it is not in Portland. And so, like, I think he owes it to himself.

I think, you know, he's done his bid. I think it's mutually beneficial, you know what I mean? Like, flip that. Like, Blazers get young, get a good look at some shit. But Dame certainly, I think, deserves a shot at winning, at the next level of winning, not just making the playoffs, but look, sniffing the championship. And so I've been on record. I'm with you, dog. Like, he needs to ride out.

And they got scoot. The Portland Trailblazers have scoot. Yeah. We're all good. And good for, yeah, good for them. Yeah, yeah. It's about that time. So now that is out of the way, Roger. It's time to do this episode that we've been plotting out for the last few weeks. Kerm has compiled a list of our worst takes.

Oh, never. And we have to have to explain them. I don't even know the time period of these takes. I don't know anything. And this is my full disclosure. This is my first time hearing all these takes being Raj's. They even had a test to see if it will work on the riverside. And I got out of there. I got out of here. And I came back into the chat to see what's going on. So we have never heard these things. Kerm, how you doing, bud?

I'm great, man. Today we got a mixed bag of clips, you know. I think it's more fun when we don't have contacts behind these. Like, we don't have time here. We just hear it. And y'all just got to explain it, bro. Like, why do that? Why say, oh, this is before so-and-so.

got injured. Why do that? That's not fine. Roger, I'm kind of scared. I don't know. I don't know what's going on here. I don't know what I said, because there's a lot of times, full disclosure. We do this early in the morning and we're some episodes, we're just trying to get through. Right, Rod? We're just trying to get through. We're trying to just

get through the episode and we just say shit. So, you know, I'm curious to see how this is completely reckless. This is reckless. I do not co-sign on this. I was blindsided by this for everyone listening. This is I had no way support this, but let's go.

Let's get it. Curve. Let's no further do. What's the clip? Ben Simmons has just been healthy. You know, he's been a guy that's just played year and year out. I know he had the injury around the time when he was drafted and he had the most recent thing.

But like when he's played and when he's been locked in, he's been healthy. He's been playing. You can count on him to play games. Yeah. Wait, wait. Hold on. Excellent stoppage of team.

Hold on. Excellent stop. Okay. All right. Okay. I don't know when I said this, but to be fair, before he started not just outright quitting games, he was pretty healthy. Check the stats, okay? Other than the first year where he had the foot thing, he was playing, you look at the stats, he was a guy that was, he was counted on to play basketball, number one. So in that moment in time, we don't have time of when that came out. But also, I was just curious, this is, you guys are sandbagging motherfuckers because you guys just cut out. Rogers part who agreed with me. Don't recall. The audio, the audio. The clip is the clip, man. That's bullshit.

That is bullshit. That is bullshit. I have my own dumb-ass take about to come up next. I have a question if I should have probably asked this before we started. Kerm, what did you have to do to get all of these horrible takes, bro? Were you back in, you were digging in like, you was in the bins? Yes, me and Kai was really in the bins. Record screen, record all these old takes.

clips just listening to full episodes. I was just like, oh shit, I forgot. We said this one. Oh, I got this one for them. Uh-huh. I mean, listen, man, I get it. But Ben Simmons was healthy at a point in time, okay? And I don't know when this was.

This is, that was wild. Okay, what's the next take? What we got? I got you. It better be for Roger because this is bullshit. It's a joint one. Y'all, y'all both. It was a collab on this one.

I got you both. Here you go. I don't know they're my favorite to necessarily win the West. But I think they're going to be right there. wouldn't be surprised if they did. And I think you're going to have to see the Pels for a minute. Like that's not, I don't think this is, you're going to see the Pelicans. Whoever, whoever faces the Pelicans, no matter what seat it is, it's going to be six, seven games.

Like, you know, like, even if they lose, it's going to be six, seven games because. You guys want to explain that one? That's, yeah. I mean, look at Zion. I mean, we haven't even, I don't know. We haven't talked about him lately, but look at him. He's a mess. And I couldn't have predicted that.

I just thought, this wound up being a terrible take. But I just thought coming off of the steam and the momentum that had kind of been built up, I think, if I'm remembering correctly, I had just come back from watching a preseason game with them. And, you know,

Griff had kind of gassed me up sitting in a stands with him. And I did see some of what he was saying. And there was some stability and they played hard. And there was all this, like, long, ranging, um,

versatile defensive. talent and I'm a Willie Green believer and if this was a fifth we'd all be drunk but if Zion was there we had a different like team and it just was a terrible take you know if I had to venture to guess rae this was after and correct me if I'm wrong term this was after they played brooklyn to start the season right and they went into Brooklyn and they bawled the fuck out and me and raja were both like oh because raja had just seen griff and I you know you know you know you know what it is? This is what it is. We're just too nice to Gryff, bro.

It's not even like a problem. We just give Gryph the benefit of the doubt. I think that's what it is. It's not even Gryff's fault. We just love them and this is what happens. This is a manifestation of what happens, right? It's so nice in person. And we just want the best for that organization because there's a lot of good people in that organization.

And Zion fucked it all up. There's basically, I think, what happened. Because that's what happened to start the season. They fuck, they, yo, the pelicans are really fucking good to start the season. They were really good. They were especially kind of like, don't don't get mad at that, Rosas. That's not the worst take.

It was a bad, I mean, in retrospect, like now, it was a bad take. It aged well, but it wasn't bad in a moment. Didn't age well, perfect. I don't fully blame y'all for, you know, I guess believing in Zion's health. But I mean, dude hasn't, he hasn't been healthy for a full season yet. So, like, I know there was a one seed.

I know they was bawling out, but we should have known. We should have known it was coming. That falls into, that fall in the, That falls into shame on me bucket, right? Like, fool me one, shame on you. Fool me twice. Yeah, shame on me. You got me.

So, Raj, a question for you, bro. Because I know that, like, this was coming off to the heels that start the season, right? But there were so many whispers, I think, that I just didn't get about Zion, that I just did. Maybe not that I didn't believe, but I was like, he's going to overcome that. He's a good kid. He's going to figure it out. But there were a lot of, like, hold on. Like, I'm like, no.

But they're fucking first in the West. They're fine. No, man. chill, relax. And I'm sure, Roger, you were getting some of those as well. But, like, in the beginning of the season, I guess we just, for some reason, gave him the benefit of the doubt, despite all the stuff we would hear behind the scenes of the shit that was going on.

I don't know. Yeah, well, I was definitely getting some of that, too. But I thought at that, at this point, with some of the stability around him in terms of, like, the CJs and the BIs, even though I didn't know him that well, I thought you had your village set up to kind of raise the, what's the saying? Like, I thought you had your village. All right? So, like, I thought they could raise the young man.

He didn't have to be required to be, like, the backbone of culture. And you could just let his talent be talent and everything would work. And that was just, you know, now it transpired there. Would you have traded him this, like, a week ago, if you could, go into the draft? Yeah, I probably would have. But, like, I'm just saying that because I was the same guy that said I would have hated to have that number one pick. I didn't want to take him with the number one pick. Yeah.

Like, do you know what I mean? I was the guy that said, man, I, that, and I know what he is when he's healthy and all of that. But I had some reservations, I mean, call it a hunch or just whatever. I don't know. I'm rarely right as this episode will show. But the point was I said, hey, I would hate to have that number one pick because you almost, you have to draft him and I'm not sure about him.

You know what I mean? For whatever reason I was unsure. And so for those reasons. And what he's done so far in the league, not just in terms of not being able to be healthy, Logan. Like, you know, you and I both know people that know people that have given us accounts of lack of maturity and lack of professionalism and lack of care in some instances about what it takes to be a good pro. Like when you put all that end of the pot, yeah, man, I don't, I don't know that I can't trust that. You know, the thing about Zion right now is, and I'm curious, they're going to keep them curious. Here's what it's going to be this season.

But he's so good. But the thing that I am struggling to figure out is, if he, like, say he is about to be an all-time great, right? The things you have to go through to be an all-time great, he's kind of behind on, right? Like, he hasn't been able to go to the playoffs yet. He hasn't felt like actual real competition. And he's going to, even if he did get his shit straight and together, he has to go through all that shit already now, right?

And, like, that's tough to do when you're a young guy. and just to turn it on. And I just don't believe he has that in him and turn it on at this moment. Or maybe I think it's just too late at this point. I think he can be an effective player in this league. But I think it's, there's a lot that seems too late

for him to be the franchise at this point in time, at least for this franchise. And obviously this take could end up being on a future episode. But like, I just don't see it right now, right? Yeah, I feel you. It is what it is, though. I mean, you know, again, so you have at some point when someone is is showing you over and over who they are and what they are, you got to, you got to believe them. Like you know what I mean? Like you can't keep trying to convince yourself there's something other than that until they give you a reason to really. And, and, you know, a consistent reason to. And he just hasn't done that. He's, he is to me who he's, you know, shown to be over the last few years. And that is someone that you, you can't, you can't hang a franchise on that right now. All right, what's next, Kerm?

What we got? That wasn't a bad take. I'd stand on that. The first one was egregious, but the second one. It truly wasn't that bad, but still fun in hindsight. All right, next one. But I think there's also an MVP case for Hardin. I'm sorry.

I just, I think that we can, we could, you're giving me that look. You're giving me that Raja look. You said MVP case for James Hardin? Got his ass. shit's had it crazy in the moment. Roger was like, you sure? What? You sure I'm not?

I don't know. This is the path you want to go down. We're positive. Okay. When was that? That was four years ago. That had to have been in the fall. It was in the fall.

It was in November and some shit. I think, bro, we can check the stats. I think that Hardin had like two straight great games. And I was just, I was like, what was I thinking, bro? Fuck. I might have just been like talking myself into he's motivated now. He got some new tight-ass shoes. He's just about to just be balling this year.

And I think that he has it in him. And this is a contract year. You may have been like capturing this moment in time. Maybe we were talking about the MVP's of like game one and two of the first round playoff matchup. Something like that, right? Like where like he just balled out in a couple of. games against Boston. And you were like, yes, he's the MVP

of the first two years. No, I think this was even weren't. What was it? What was it? I'm going to keep it a beam with you all. I listened to too many episodes of this weekend for me to tell you the context of these. I think this was early season, you know, when, you know, Philly was looking good and Hardin

was doing what he was supposed to be doing for the team. You know, Doc Rivers, he was on Bill Simmons's podcast last week talking about how early in the season I Hardin was, you know, the perfect, you know, distributor and still getting his scoring, but not focused on that as much. And then there was a switch at some point in the season where that changed. So this was before that switch, I think.

So I'll give you that much context, Logan. Jeez. So the thing with Hardin, man, it's just, it's tough, man, because he's so fucking talented, right? And Roger, there are nights where you're like, damn, maybe he's not the MVP of the league. Jeez, Logan. Jesus, Logan. Just come on. But there are times where you're like.

Like, dude, this dude, if he could have had, like, if he could have had the focus level. And just, just the give a fuckedness of, of, of what, just care that, that what, the level of care that match his level of talent, dude could have been the number three guard of all time. I really believe that. He was that. He is that good. But for some reason, Roger, during the postseason, in some reason, like, this continues to happen. and he always gets, if you look, because I'm pretty sure I said this

in the beginning of the season, if you look historically at his beginnings of the seasons, there's some times where you're like, damn, he's going to be cold. He's going to, the rockets are going to be the champions of this league. Or, you know, those are the types of things.

And so I just got Carter in the Raptor, Raja, but like, what do you think when we look back at Hardin's career, what are we going to think about? What are the, some of the things, Like also granted, he could win a title, but I don't think that changes much of how we feel about him as a whole,

too big of a sample size of his career. Yeah, it's a good question. You know, I think I would have him as one of the most gifted, you know, one-on-one guys of all time. Like, he would come into a, he would fall into a category with some other people,

not at the top of that category, but what he could do, given the ball and given just, you know, the 24-second shot clock to get in his bag and do his shit. Like for some length of time, at least it was almost unstoppable, right? Like he was just cooking like that. Now, in terms of who James Hardin is as an overall NBA player

and where he falls into the hierarchy, see, I think it's like stylistically, his style of play lends itself to having these phenomenal numbers and me talking about him as this awesome score. I don't necessarily put him in the awesome player category, if that makes sense. What's the difference? Yeah, I was going to ask you what's the difference? Well, because that doesn't, it doesn't win at a high level. Like it's, you know, it becomes hard to play with him at times for other guys who,

who could be of the type of, you know, level of player that would help him get over the hump. Because you kind of, when he's at his best, you're standing and watching until the last minute until you get the ball. You know what I mean? So, like, it doesn't necessarily produce at the championship level. You know, without the ball, I would then ask, like, what else is, what else is, what else? is he doing for you. You know, it's not like he was ever an elite level defender. Not that, not that, you know, I don't know, some all-time greats were, but he's so

ball dominant and that style is so singular at times, even though he's got all these assists. Not every assist is created equally. Can you dig what I'm saying? Like, their assists that keep us in the flow and keep everybody eating and keep us, you know, locked in a way that we all want to keep defending and working. and their assists that are like that, that might lend themselves more towards winning. And then their assists where, well,

you had to ball at a whole damn shot clock and four people are now on you. Of course you have to throw it to me. And if I make it, you get an assist. So you know what I mean? And so it's weird conversation. But most people who played at a certain level will understand what I'm saying.

Like there could be a dude who has eight assists and you love to play with him. And then there's a dude who has 14 assists and you're like, man, I'd rather not. Well, you're like this. Yeah, you're like, fuck. I mean, okay. So you just want me to stand here.

Okay. And you know what? Like, I don't, I mean, Luca has to figure out who he wants to be in that regard. Like, do you know what I'm? Like a lot of production, a lot of points, a lot of assists, brilliant with the ball, not taking anything away from an overall skill level,

but you got to figure out what's important to you, the ball or like winning. And it might mean you give up the ball a little bit. to contribute more to winning. So I'm going to play devil's advocate here really quickly. So I don't think we're saying, I don't think we're right saying like one-on-one guys can't win titles because, I mean, people have done that, right?

So what is the difference between, and I'm going to put Luka in this because he has a similar game until proven otherwise? What separates, there's the Luka's of the world, there's the James Hardens of the world, there's the, no disrespect, there's the Tracy McGrady's of the world, world, right? These one-on-one stars are great scores. What separates them, what separates, like,

the Kobe Bryant's and the Dwayne Wade's from the list that I just named for you, right? Where there's these volume scores. I can put Alan Iverson in the other group, too, right? I can put Chuck in there as well into the Luke in the Harding group. What is the difference between those groups of guys that are able to just, they're one-on-one guys at their core, but they're able to go into a team environment and win multiple titles. I mean, there are different things, obviously, that would separate them. But let's just start with like some of those guys could be ball dominant. But like Kobe, for instance, sure.

If Kobe, if you said here, take the ball, dribble it up the court or get it immediately when we cross half court and then just dance on it and get us something, he could for sure do that with the best players on the planet. But they played Kobe in the triangle a lot. So, like, I guarded him. I know he ain't had a ball to whole possession. Do you understand what I'm saying? So, like, even though he might be the one who finishes the last eight to seven seconds

of the possession, that ball has moved through three different people, and there's been some player movement. And so the rest of us kind of feel involved, even if we're not getting the shot, right? Or, you know, if Kobe gets into his for, like, four, five, six seconds and then gets it back to us, we feel involved in a way that it's hard to explain to, like, someone who hasn't been out there when you're just standing and watching and just catching and shooting, like, and the ball's only touched your hand like four times in 25 possessions because you got four shots, like you could fall asleep out there on some of the other things that you're asked

to do to contribute to winning, i.e., like making crisp cuts and as decoys or setting good screens, defending, because you don't feel like you're a part of it. So that's one separation, right? Like some of those guys, DeWay didn't have the ball entire possession. all the time. Of course, they would do it when need be, but that wasn't the structure of the offense all the time in Miami. So that's a major difference, right? Because James Hardin and Luca can have it like the entire shock lot. Do you know? And so now you're standing around, you know, Chuck could be like that sometimes, right? Like Alan Iverson can have the whole, now here's the difference between him and Luca and James Hardin. And this is the other difference would be you never question

what he was willing to do on the other end of the court or sacrificing his body or just his general heart in a way that would have you feeling some kind of way about standing around and watching him. Can you dig what I'm saying? Because he would leave a game and you'd say, Jesus Christ, man, his elbows are all swollen. He just dove for 38 loose balls.

He's, you know, he wasn't like the great on-ball defender, but you didn't question the effort because he was going after steals and he was everywhere. And so, you know, number one would be how much you have the ball for total possession time. But the other part is just generally, what else are you willing to do if you're going to be taking all of the dribbles

and all of the shots? Are you willing to give us something somewhere else? And then maybe we're good. But if you don't, and we question that, then we might not be so good. That's interesting because a great case study of this is actually with one of the greatest player of our generation of LeBron James. I think about him in the 14-15 finals when Kyrie went down and he had to be all the

offense and it just, he's so good that he almost could beat the Warriors in that, in that situation, but you could see like he there, after him, there wasn't much else you could do. There was no other secondary offense, right? Because K. Love was out and Kyrie was out. One thing you said about Chuck, I was watching drink champs when Norie. Shack was on. And he said that Iverson was the only guy in the league that he could not punk because he was just going to keep coming. Every single time I'd block his shit, I'd throw him to the ground.

He's there the next possession. And I think that says a lot about, I think, I mean, you were in the locker room when that happened. But when you used to have a guy like that, it makes everybody want to ride for him. And that's another thing that when we bring it back to Harden, I don't think at the core, there are teammates that are just unabashedly gearing and year out ready to ride for him. You know, like we're about to just, we're, some of them get sometimes there. He has friends around the league, no doubt.

But like, I just don't believe, year and year out. Like, we ride with hard and fuck it. We locked in with him in the way that they were with Chuck and Dwayne Wade, Kobe. Like, there were Kobe, even though. were people that did not fuck with Kobe, but the ones that did rode with him. You know, like the Lamar Ottoms and the Ron Artec and the pals, like, and Shaq, even though that they had their people that rode with him in the way and I don't see that with O'Harton. Well, that's, that's fair.

And he wasn't like the best practice player. Like you remember the old, like, press conference, right? Where he's talking about practice and stuff. So it wasn't like, as his teammate, you were like, yo, this cat puts in so much. work at his game and he's so committed to his craft that we're going to ride with him. That's that it wasn't like that, but he was just a warrior. So like when you went into that foxhole, when it was game time, you knew that he would give his left arm to get that win.

And so if he was going to, you know, ride like that, you have no choice but to get down like that, right? Because your best player is putting it out there like that. Kobe was very much the same. So whether you liked him, you know, on a personal level or not, like, he would give a finger or an arm to get that win. But what he also had was you couldn't really question his work ethic because he'd be for a long stretch of his career probably until he got older. Like he was outworking everybody. Like his workout regimen and offseason is legendary.

Do you know what I mean? So like when you see that and your best player is that it just sets a tone. That's why it's so important for organizations to have. if they get a guy that's like that to hold on to him because they just drive culture in that way. And so, you know, a talent can be, this isn't specific to James Hardin or anyone. I'm not, this isn't, this isn't meant to be pointed in anyone, but there are a lot of guys that would fall into Uber talented. Everyone knows they're one of the best players in the league, but there may be questions surrounding either a, you know, commitment to like, you know, being in the best shape or, you know, workouts in the offseason. or, you know, being, being places on time and stuff like that.

And then if you couple that with like, yo, would this guy really give up his left arm for the win? Like, if you have a situation like that, then you could be in a situation where you're not really driving culture in a way where guys look like they always want to play with you. Sure. Say a quick break and we have more takes. And we are back.

Kerm, what we got, bud. All right. So now we'll move on to the section of the pot I like to call. You all this gas in the Warriors the fuck up this season. So let's go look at that. Let's go. Let's run the tape back.

One by one. I think Wiseman's going to be really good this season. Explain. I'll run it back for you. I think Wiseman's going to be really good this season. Damn. God damn. That's what I thought I heard.

I'm trying. I'm trying. trying. I got nothing. I have nothing. I have listen. Someone there, someone there, you know, like he, you weren't in the minority, man. A lot of people thought he was, I got grift. I got grift. I got grift, Roger. Like, you know, their whole organization did. Yeah. That's what I mean. Like, people saw, people saw that in him. Like, you ain't the only one. People, but here's a thing,

though, man, in hindsight, like, I don't know, people, it was Joe Lacob who was insisted on making the pick and everybody was trying to make sure. And this is, I can't, I can't say it. Everybody else can't say it. But it was Joe Lekub who made this pick. And everybody was just trying to be like, yeah, man, we're at least publicly. Yeah, he's going to figure it out. He's working really hard in the off season. He's doing really, really good. And all that was happening. But, uh, yeah, he's a piston now. And, um, yeah, he's just trying to figure out. It's tough, man, because there's a lot of talent in Wiseman. A lot of talent, not a lot of games.

And you need games. You need games. That's just what it is. Yeah. He could have, I think he falls into the category. He should have played more college. He should have,

I mean, he got messy there in, in his college stuff, though, right? He had to leave. Yeah. You know what it was, though? I think it's more of the fact that, like, he shouldn't have gotten picked by the Warriors.

Like, if he gets picked by the Rockets or something, right, where he can just figure his shit out. I think he'd be, I don't know if he would be an All-Star, but he would be in a better situation because he could play through his mistakes. Every single one of his mistakes was magnified with the Warriors, man.

Every single one. He had not a chance. All right. What we got? Is this all me or does this, like, damn. Roger had like what? What the fuck? Do we have a Roger B?

It comes back around the Roger, but we're on to the next one. I'm just keeping it into bay. I think Jordan Poole is going to be the six men of a year. because he's a starter coming off the bench and that manager an obelie role. Dog, is Raj's gonna have one? Well, was this before or after the incident?

You got points in the face? I think this was literally like days before the incident. This was our preseason picks. Both of them was like, you was watching preseason games like, yeah, man, wise man, he's that dude, enjoying pool, looking like a title. And they had a drum on punch dude in the face

and changed everything. I can defend. I can defend my Jordan pool take, though. Like, I could definitely be with career highs and points and assists. Like, if he doesn't get punched in the face and it's consistently coming off the bench and they win 50-something games, like, yes, that's pretty good. Like, I'm not going to act like that was a bad pick. Like, he got punched in the face.

Not his fault. Tinto's down on the take. I feel it. I respect it. I respect it. Hold it down on the take, man. You know? I'm not going to say my other takes that I said pre-pot about the man, but, you know, you locked in.

All right. Next one, this one, this one's a Roger one. It was his finals predictions. What's fucking go. I mean, it's going to kind of be, we talk about both teams all the time. So from the Western Conference, I think Golden State is in a sweet spot right now.

I've just seen glimpses of what those two, Cominga and Wiseman are bringing to the table in the preseason. And I'm not getting over, you know, I'm not buying. It's not recency bias here. What I'm saying is if they can give you any of that, like it doesn't even have to be super consistent and add it to what they already had. I think they're my favorite to go on the Western Conference. I like them. I think they're in a sweet spot right now.

They're in a window. So I have them going from the Western Conference. And I'm taking the Brooklyn Nets. Oh. Oh. Oh. Hey. Say your peace, Roger.

say your piece. You know, finals predictions are difficult, they're difficult to assess, you know? Where to begin? Clearly, okay, yes, clearly early, very early in the season. And let me just say, if I may defend myself, like I think that you want me to defend myself, I did say, and I did qualify it there with,

if they can give you anything, they didn't give you anything, right? So I said, if they could give you anything to add to what they already had, I liked Golden State. I thought they were in a window. clearly I was wrong. I was on the Logan train with Wiseman. That didn't work out. And Kaminga, like, I still would like to, I would love to privately ask someone there.

Is he just not, like, do you not see it in him? Let me, hey, let me defend Kaminga, if I may, real quick. Yeah, please. By extension, defend your pick. Yeah, it was 14 and 3 when Wiggins was out. And then he got out of the lineup, but it frustrated him because he had to, in the playoffs. They just took him out after he was doing really good. So that was the frustrations.

I didn't understand that, though. Like, I mean, I guess I don't mean to second guess Steve Kerr, but in those playoffs, like you saw a bunch of guys scattered around the NBA, you know, there were young players making real contributions to winning. They would look light at times. They were searching for answers. If he's sitting over there and you think he's able, I don't get that. But, yeah, I was wrong.

Who the hell saw him coming out and being that bad on the road this year? You know, well, I'd like to see if that take was pre or post punch because the punch had a lot of things to do with it. I hate to go back to it, but it was just, it was so detrimental. They're like, it's easier to win on the road, I mean, at home, like, just to get your stuff back. But like, to win on the road is just, it's, it's hard when you don't have, we don't trust nobody. And they didn't trust anyone. That's a great. That's a great point, though, because at home, you got your family, your people.

when you go on the road, it's they are, your team is your people. And if you don't trust them, it could, that could be a very, very real dynamic there. It was definitely pre-punched

because, you know, I was the dudes in here telling you that shit will never be the same. They need to, like, somebody has to go.

You remember when you got punched? I was like, somebody got to go. Yeah, somebody got to go. But it was a terrible take. And Brooklyn, I can't even fucking defend myself.

Like, I don't, I don't have any defense for that. Well, no, hey, I have a defense for you. Before Kyrie got traded. They were one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference.

You know? I mean, yeah, but that was after like my man got fired and or like step down. Like I didn't see I didn't see it like that. And I was just maybe blinded by like my relationship with Steve a little bit. But I really- Friends to people, bro. We're way too good of friends,

dog. Jesus. We'll talk. But like you started you had fucking Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irvin. Like I'm, I'm, what the fuck? Bro, I'm just, I'm saying, dog. Yo, on 2K, they are so fucking good, bro. Like, they're unstoppable.

Unstoppable. Unstoppable. They're fucking unstoppable. I guess before we move on to the final clip I have, I guess you guys want to expand on the conversation of what's good with the Warriors and developing young dudes? Because I feel like this has been a pattern ever since they became a championship team. Have they ever had any, like, young players that they've been able to? able to develop in that period.

I feel like most of the key role players are usually guys they bring in versus drafting them. Logan, Logan, can I take this real quick, Logan? Because you have way more, way more your way more in tune with them than me. But I think you had a fantastic point about, you know,

Wiseman being drafted there. And I think it plays a huge role and why it's hard for them to develop young players. They don't have the type of leash to make mistakes. in a championship now window that they would in other situations. Do you know what I mean? And I think that plays a huge role in allowing young players the space to make mistakes and play through mistakes and learn on the fly. And even if it costs you some games here or there,

we understand that the end goal is winning a championship and you producing and helping us do that. And whether it's like Golden State just doesn't navigate that well or it's just really, really difficult to do that. Either one of the two, I think because it's always, we have a shot to win a championship and we just won one, and now we're up again, I think it's really hard for them to develop

and integrate pieces into that. I think all of those points that you made were great. And I think this is what, and I'm going to bear with me because I'm getting back to Golden State. But what I would like to say is, we need to give flowers to the San Antonio Spurs. because they know how to, one, cultivate a dynasty and also maintain it, which is a really hard thing to do.

And a lot of that has to do with geography and just overall from top to bottom in the front office. But a lot of it does have to do with geography because San Antonio isn't the Bay Area where there are all these expectations. And I'm going to be honest with you, the warriors got a little Hollywood in them where they have to, they get away from themselves

by trying to make the big splashy move to, I think about when they doubled down or they got to Marcus Cousers in the offseason when they didn't really have to do that, right? Like, they didn't have to. And that's one element of it. They have to, they are a team that wants to make the big splash a lot of the times,

and that gets in the way of their development process. Number two, when they were first starting, like, say there's two iterations of this, right? There's the Kevin Durant and pre-Cevon-Durant time where young guys, when you're winning a championship, it's just hard to develop because your eyes are on a championship. Like, we're trying to get this title. And when you're trying to get a title, we, it's all hands-on deck to do that. And if you can't help in your little way, then we don't have time to develop you.

That's where a Jordan Bell slips through the cracks. A Pat McCaw slips through the cracks. And it's because you're just not giving, you don't have enough time to get you. attention to these people. And we're going to take Kavana Looney, who is not going to do make any mistakes and is going to do what he is told for the betterment of this team and is not going to go through the growing pains of a young person. And then on the other side of that, they have developed, they developed Jordan Poole, which is the face of the development. And this goes to the larger issue of the warriors. And the reason why I don't think that

they're, again, might go on to the takes, but why I don't think that they're going to be able to make that next step is because whenever they're in a jam, they cater to that big three of Draymond, Steph, and Clay, and the desires that they won, right? Whereas you think about the San Antonio Spurs, we're trying to build around Tim Duncan, but Tim Duncan, by and large, doesn't really have any say on this. We're going to build around here. We're going to draft these guys, and these guys are going to be great for the system. Whereas, I mean, for the reason, and Draymond will tell you, there's the reason why Draymond's been here for. the years that he's been here is because Steph said, no, we're not trading, Ramon. He's staying. No,

we're going to keep clay in the building. The reason why this Chris Paul trade happens is because they get the okay from the big three, like, okay, we're going to go older. We're going to double down on this big three. And as a consequence, they trade away their crown jewel of development for the big three who is aging. And let's be honest, Steph played well, but he played best. bad in spurts last postseason. Clay Thompson played well in spurts during the regular season, but was pretty bad during that postseason. Draymond Green, we asked Steve Kerr last year why fucking Sandbag and Rajah couldn't get us to

answer, but we asked him why he got pulled during the finals, right? But for real, right? We asked why did Traymond get pulled during the finals? Because he was not playing well during the finals. And these are the guys you are doubling down on when there are young guys that can actually help you win a title. But they're very stubborn in their ways. Anytime we're in a jam,

we're going to go to these pillars or we're going to go to them, even when their games are eroding and they're getting older. So it's a lot of nuance, but they don't. And the way that the Spurs make an environment for young guys to be a part of their group, the warriors have not figured out how to successfully do that. Yeah, that's interesting. The other team that I would throw on the mix there would be the heat.

and they do a really good job too. But again, I don't know that you would necessarily outside of the heat building and maybe Miami have the pressures of like we're winning a championship this year like Golden State has had. You know what I mean? So like the development of some of that, you know, the heat weren't great all year. You know, like they weren't. And one other thing I wanted to say about that real quick, because you brought up the heat as a great point. And also they go with the Spurs, right? Like, you see every, you see, like, with the Spurs and the Heat, you see their guys,

you see Peter Holt, you see Greg Popovich, and you see, like, you see the Miami Mafia. But what you, like, with the Warriors, though, every, it's all centered around their ownership and Joe Lakeb, who was like, just grinds on people all the time, man. When you talk about even in games just hitting up people, what the fuck's going on right here. What's going on right here? Why isn't this working? Why isn't this happening? And that grinds on people. You see why Bob Myers, who in theory should just be taken care of and just be in what the Warriors for decades. But just the grind of the game. And this is not similar to the Bulls of the 90s and all these other dynasties, right? But it's just a difference because it's a difference in the

case study of if you want to be long term for 20 years or you want to have this lightning in a bottle and you went four out of ten, right? Like, so it's just, it's just different ways of skin the cat. But the Warriors as a difference is their ownership is just so hell-benton winning and just, like, just grinding every single day. And that takes a lot out of an organization. All right. So for this last clip, uh, I brought this one up because I wanted a apology from one of

our podcast hosts because I was, you know, I was really traumatized, you know, really the reaction I got for this take. So let's play that clip. I'm just saying it might not be a championship this year, but shit, dog, if they get in the playing, something could happen. Don't roll your eyes and be, Logan. Something could happen. Thank you, Kerm. Thank you, Kerm.

Thank you, Kerm. Thank you, Kerm. I was just, you know, just talking about my squad, the Lakers. I thought, you know, a good playoff run was possible, you know? A team that started two and ten. You know, I thought it was, you know, going to be a story of victory. and triumph. And what do I get?

Eyes rolled in me by Logan just for, you know, stating my take. And then what happens? Lakers go to as far as the conference finals this year, starting as a play in team, insanity. You know, I just, I want my apology, Logan. That's all. That's all.

That we can go home. With all due respect, I'm not apologizing for shit. Oh, the reason why I'm not apologizing for shit. It's because you are a Los Angeles Laker fan, Kerm. Let me say, let me just. talk real quick, man. The goal is not to start 2 and 10 and say, oh,

if we're going to get it to the plan, we might make some noise and go to the conference finals. No, fuck that. This is the Los Angeles Lakers. You want to put a fucking banner for the conference championship at crypto? Is that what you bleed?

Is that what you want? Because I'm not on that shit. So, fuck that. I'm rolling all eyes and they're getting stuck being rolled. I'm not apologizing for shit. This is the Los Angeles Lakers. All right. They're supposed to be one C. This is title town, all right?

Fuck that shit. They know, oh, if we get into the plane, no, fuck that. LeBron ain't trying to hear that shit. AD ain't trying to hear that shit. The Ghost of George Miking ain't trying to hear that shit. All right?

That's fucking, fuck out of here, bro. I ain't giving you nothing, man. Fuck that. That was, fuck that. If it's not a championship in Los Angeles, a fucking failure, bro. We ain't talking about that. You know what I'm going to say, put it up.

Go put it a playing banner, Kerr? Go put it a playing banner? No. No, you got me there. I tried it, bro. Damn, bro. Cur, you're about to have something for that. All right.

We're putting buses down Thigaroa for a fucking conference finals appearance. It is. Fuck out of here. Doing that. Yeah, boy. Damn, Logan. Curm, don't. Hey, listen, Kerm, don't.

Hey, Kerm, listen. Hey, Kerm, listen. Hey, hey, Kerm, look at me. I'm looking at me. I'm looking at. Hey, don't come back on here again with something like that. and you ain't got nothing for Logan. Okay, now that man just went at you in a way that was very aggressive, dog,

and I'm just going to keep it a buck like I tell my boy. It's like, you can't let that man talk to you like that. You're right. Hey, I didn't love the tone, but the sentiment's correct, though. As a Lakers fan, we can't celebrate a conference finals victory. I was celebrating the fact that I did, you know, I got my takeoff. And I was shitting on. And they went farther than expected.

That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. But you got me there. You got me there. We can't celebrate no conference finals. I'm just saying, we can't celebrate these clipper-ass storylines, all right? We can't do that out here. Sorry.

We can't do that. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And he slides it in. All right then. Hey, man. I love you, Kerr, but we can't be, we a out here like that, dog.

It's, it's, it's, come on, come on. You got me there. In Los Angeles. Kerm, can I defend you for a second, Kerm? Can I defend Kerm? You're more than welcome. Dude, the dysfunction that was the Los Angeles Lakers at that point. Okay?

The dysfunction that was. was the Lakers at that point, to be in a conference finals after reshuffling the deck and all of that shit, while it's not a championship. And I do agree that the standard is set really high in Los Angeles. I'm talking to you, Logan. Okay, allow me to defend my man, Kern. I'm talking to you right now. Look at me. Wrote it down for me.

All right. That was a long way to come. And the man had just said they could wind up if they get it together, making a nice playoff run. And all that came to fruition, dog. So don't back down, Kerm. This man sat here two times during the- He sat here two different times during the pod telling you he wasn't apologizing for shit.

You ain't got to apologize for that. That was exactly what you said. Guess what, Roger? Guess what, Roger? You brought dysfunction? Guess what? I don't give a fuck about the dysfunction. You know why?

Clearly. When I was growing up, when I was growing up, Roger, I grew up in the Shaq and Kobe age, all right? You remember that shit where they were talking all that big shit in the media about how I don't fuck with him. I don't fuck with him. I'm not fucking with him.

He did this to me. He did this to me. You know what resulted in that? You know what how it resulted in that? Three straight NBA titles. Hey, for all the shit that happened this season, LeBron didn't slap the shit out of AD in the way that Shaq slapped the shit out of Kobe back in the day

and they still went on and run off three straight titles. So I'm not hearing that shit about dysfunction. Disfunction runs LA. But largely, but largely during that run, there was continuity within the roster. There were pieces in place year after year that knew. Everyone knew they could play with Shaq and Kobe

and play their role. So while there was dysfunction behind the scenes and those two couldn't get right, you weren't worried about it on the court. This iteration of the Lakers was a shit show. Like you were out here defending millennials, Raj. I am shocked. I am shocked.

I am shocked. at this millennial age of just instant gratification, you were defending this shit? We have a show to put on, okay? And so if you're going to take that stance and my man Kermm, I feel you, bro, like Logan got like you, but I got you. All right?

You just said what you said and that was factually correct. And Logan, Logan can be right too, but you weren't wrong. I love everyone on this pot. I don't want that shit to get fucking misconstrued and shit. I'm not accepting

plans and fucking in fucking conference championships in Los Angeles bro. Back in my day, that shit was a fucking failure. Come on now. Let's do it.

It's still a failure. I mean, ultimately. Hey, Raja. Roger. Let's be real. On real ones, we ain't fucking competing

for Western Conference championships. You're feeding for titles in this motherfucker, Roger. That's what we're doing. We're here. Let's fucking do it. Thanks.

All right. That's been our Monday Dog Day's edition. of real ones. Oh, man. Let's see. We might do this next year. This was very fun, man. Shout out to all the real ones out there.

Shout out to Rai. Shout out to all the affiliates. Tap in all the shit. Yeah, shout out to Kerm and Kai for going back in the damn crates, bro. And finding, like, that's a lot of digging, bro. Good for real. And they got to hear our voice for all that one for a whole fucking weekend. Geez.

They are the real MVP's. We will see you guys on Thursday. in all the shits ah bye