The Ringer NBA Show - Ranking the Blue-Chip Assets in the Dame Chase, Plus More Big Post-Free Agency Questions | Group Chat

Episode Date: July 5, 2023

Justin and Wos discuss whether Damian Lillard is truly destined for Miami (5:00), and they also rank the trade packages reportedly available to Portland for Lillard (21:30). Then, they round up some other free agency news, and discuss what teams made signings they liked and disliked (44:24). Hosts: Justin Verrier and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, everyone, it's Ariel Hawani, and I wanted to let you know that each and every week, I'm part of a great program called The Ringer MMA Show. I hosted alongside two absolutely brilliant minds. Their names, Chuck Mindenhall and Pizzie Carroll, and every Thursday, a new episode drops where we preview the weekend in mixed martial arts and react to all the biggest news. Plus, after every UFC pay-per-view, we give you a post-fight show. So this is what you have to do. Just follow the Ringer M-M-M-A show on your Spotify app.

So you don't miss an episode. We'll talk to you then. Below and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Barrier. And joining me, still recovering from Michael Rubin's White Party. Big Wise. What's up, buddy?

I'm good, man. Went straight from Cabo to the Hamptons. And, yeah, I was hobnobbing with industry, elite. You know, me and Beyonce did the double kiss, double cheek. on when we greeted each other. It was just an incredible, incredible, legendary night, Justin. Yeah, we were talking just before we started recording here,

and we were saying how it's so ridiculous, how you see all of these people, free agents, that we're all getting in a lather over, just talking about where are they going, what's going on? It's literally James Harden, just like hanging out with Embed, who were all just like suspicious that they're going to break up and all.

It's just like two different worlds, man. Carefree. Carefree. They're careful. free Twitter is like, oh my God, what's going on? Yeah, I think that should give people perspective about transaction season and its primacy in our industry. Like, at the end of the day, people got hoop somewhere.

And, yeah, I think that's the perspective we should end up taking for like, I would say 98% of the transactions that happen in free agency. Yeah. Well, we'll be in Summer League in the next. couple days. So we'll be going to the league's second biggest white party very soon. So. Shouts to Warren LaGerry. There you go. As you could tell, Rob is not here with us. Still on the mend, we wish him well. He might not be with us for Summer League, which is disappointing

because we don't get a lot of opportunities to see each other in person. But Wazen, I will be there holding it down. I assume we will be having two different experiences, but I am excited to live vicariously if only three years. Listen, I tell everybody the same thing. The best NBA holiday is Summer League. It's not the finals. It's not NBA All-Star Weekend. It's NBA Summer League.

And the reason why, Justin, is because at the finals one, people like you and I actually would, like, we're working for real. And anybody that you're talking to on the team side or if you happen to have an agent, homie, is stressed the hell out, right? All-Star weekend is just, I don't know, it's just a parade of corporate, you know, events, whatever,

like some weird watch company or some tequila brand that's trying to be the next Casamigos, whatever. Summer League, what I love about it is everybody is in a great mood. Hope Springs Eternal. Everybody just signed a great new deal. everybody just had the free agent acquisition that's going to vault their team to the next level. Everybody thinks they're going to be the shit next season

and that attitude permeates the entire event. And that's why I like Summer League so much. And of course, Vegas. Right, just a little bit of it. Yeah, you see a bunch of NBA players just on the craps table, Daniel Orton, you know, playing blackjack, whatever it was on there. But, dude, one time I was walking through, I think it was the Cosmo,

and Sean Marks was walking the GM of the Nets with like three of what I assume his homies from Australia. And these Boston fans started heckling him. And him and his boys started giving it back to the dudes in the freaking, on the casino floor in the Cosmo. I was like, this shit does not happen anywhere else. It's awesome. Yeah.

So we'll bring you the sights of sounds of Summer League and also we'll be recording right after Wemby's debut or supposed a debut on Friday. So we'll be back then. But first, we have to break down some of the free agency action and kind of deal with some of the ripple effects. Surprisingly, things kind of wrapped up pretty quickly over the weekend. I think it was only two days and pretty much everything was done except for some of these restricted free agents that are going on. But we want to take a look at the next questions as a result of all of those signings, starting with our friend Damien Lollard, who finally issued a trade request. But unfortunately, it seems like the remnants of that situation are going to play out pretty slowly over the next couple of weeks.

Here's my question to you, Was, this ends with Dame in Miami, right? Because you're seeing a lot of obfuscation happening at the moment. Oh, could Philly jump in? Could Brooklyn jump in? They might not send him to where he wants to go, but he only wants to go to Miami. me, but it seems like a lot of to do to ultimately get to him with the heat, no? Yeah, I think that's it. It's going to be the heat.

At first, we were hearing this Brooklyn stuff, Brooklyn noise, and now what are we hearing about Brooklyn? They're going to be part of the facilitation of the trade rather than a Dame destination. Same thing with the Spurs, where it was like, oh, Dane might want to play with Victor with Minyama for some reason, even though he just left a race. rebuild and a small market and like ridiculous. And then now you're hearing, no, they might be one of the suitors that helps facilitate it because they would actually like to get a guy like Tyler Hero in their building, right?

As these teams slowly but surely fall by the wayside as far as dame suitors, the inevitable becomes true. And I think it's just on Portland to figure out, all right, how do we get? them as much as we can from this. And I think people at home, because these days, obviously, I'm not as on Twitter as I used to be. And I do watch a blue sky guy now. Exactly.

I watch, you know, some of the ESPN stuff. And I get the chatter that's going on in different corners. And you're hearing this stuff about, oh, Portland, they're not just going to lay down and blah, blah, blah. Take it from me, guys, that's just face-saving nonsense on the Portland side. They're going to make the deal with Miami. And the reason why they have to is because as much as people want to say, oh, Dame has all these years left on this deal.

You cannot facilitate a trade for a guy who's owed that much money if you don't have buying. It's stupid to do so to just be like, we'll just bring him in here anyway. And if he doesn't like it, then who gives a shit? We got his rights. It doesn't make, like, you're missing out on the whole point of having this caliber of player on your team if there is no buy-in on his part. And so once Dames and his representatives put it out there, it's like, look, Miami is the place, then Miami is going to be the place. And we can get into all the stuff that led us to this point. Because I think there's another sort of narrative

that you're hearing out there where it's just like, why does Portland just have to trade things? No, they don't have to do anything realistically. But if you're doing this rebuild, then what's the point of keeping him? He's going to make you way better than you clearly want to be right now.

Because if you want it to be better than you are right now, you would have gotten rid of those chips, those younger pieces to get done. better right now because let's face it, proven veterans, all NBA kind of players are what it would have taken to get this thing to the next level. They've shown that they don't really have an interest in that. So you should get rid of Dane. But, you know, again, we can get into all of that. Yeah, no, I think the interesting thing that's kind of rippling from this is you have a camp

suggesting that Portland should send Dame to Miami because of his loyalty over the past couple of years. That, like, that is the right thing to do. And now you could look at it from a cold, hard business perspective and say, like, well, if you don't bring him to where he wants to, will affect you down the line with future free agents, I would say that Portland isn't really a destination anyway, so that shouldn't be an issue. But then you have the whole, like, well, he's been a good soldier. There's been a lot of love on both ends, yada, yada, which I'll be honest, I don't buy at all. And if anything, Dame had his choice already. And he signed an extension literally a year ago for gobsing of money. This isn't like his second contract or his

third contract. He has now signed three different extensions for contracts with his team. I feel like the Blazers are within their right to do whatever they want with them at this point. Okay. So let's just take that very management friendly view of the situation. What people need to realize if that if Dame didn't signed that extension, he'd be eligible to be a free agent next summer, i.e., he would have maximum leverage over the trailblazers as to where they should send him. And guess what? Any team that he would have been traded to automatically would assign him to that extension. Nobody's trading for him and being like, we're going to be lame duck with Dame Lillard, the superstar we just brought in. The reason why he signed said

extension is because the new regime, and we can get into the myriad of fuck-ups from the Olshe regime that came in before. He stunk up the joint. He stunk up the joint. We can get into that. It's more mixed, I would say, but no, go ahead. The bottom line is, Dame signed that extension after they said privately and publicly, they were going to try to build a contender around Dane.

And then they've gone out and done what, Justin? the exact opposite. And I don't think they're even wrong for taking that tack. I think they wanted to sort of do the Dane thing and try to get some real players in there. But the way things started working, you know, they luck into this number three pick after, you know, Dane mysteriously sat at the end of the season.

Right. I wonder why that was. Well, see, this is my point, though. Like, it almost seems like it's incumbent on him to see the writing on the wall and not just take management, Managen's word for it, that they're going to just like all of a sudden figure out this magical contender around him when they haven't in years past. And if you looked at the situation going into last season, and especially at the trade deadline, like, what are the pathways to this? Dave's not a dumb guy. He can't see the writing on the wall?

And so can't he see that there isn't a clear route to figuring this, like, magical contender that he's been on? or like searching for it for so long. But you got to think to yourself, Justin, at the same time, like this is a new regime if you want to make it work in Portland and they're telling you, again, it's a clean slate. It's not the old-shaped regime. That guy got fired for a reason, right? So the new guys come in and you want to give Cronin the benefit of the doubt

that it's going to happen and it just hasn't. And again, here's another thing that people need to understand. Of course, the Cronin in them, understand why they wanted to do this sort of thread the needle two-track thing with Dane because he makes their freaking team a viable business. It's a premium product in that city because Dane is there. These are real hard dollars we're talking about, dollars and cents that Dane is earning for the freaking franchise.

When people try to say, oh, he's signed for all this, quote-unquote, gobs of money, Hello, he's earned it for the franchise. Like, again, we could talk about, again, the CBA dictates that the players, which in a given years about 360, 400 guys in the league, share 51% of the revenue. And then you have guys, like, say, I don't know, James Dolan inherited the team.

And he's sharing that pie with who? That 49%, right? So when people try to act like, he's, he, like, you know, he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. No, he's getting his just due for what he's done for the team. Like, they sell out every single damn game because it is due. And that's why they didn't want to move them immediately. Because they're not a viable product as far as selling the stuff to fans

and season tickets and all those kinds of things. And that stuff matters. And so I'm not saying Portland has been a bad actor in this. I think they probably thought, maybe we'll see where it goes and we could probably swing this thing. and then it just didn't happen that way and now these guys are parting ways. Yeah, no, I think on both sides.

I feel fine about it. I don't like the painting of Dame as this innocent victim who didn't know what he was getting into when he signed this extension. Like, yes, if you want the money, then you lose a little bit of leverage on the back end and maybe you go to Philly as opposed to Miami, God forbid.

And so, like... If he didn't sign that deal, if he didn't sign that deal, and he forced his way to a trade, and also, let's be real. He didn't have to sign it at the point that he did. He could have signed it later, like around, say, the trade deadline. Okay, could have signed that same extension.

And then he goes out, Justin, and has the best year of his career. He was going to get that money. He wanted to stay in Portland. Like, people are painting it as if this isn't Bradley Beale. This is the problem. People do this one-to-one. where it's this like, quote unquote, superstar asked for a trade. This ain't Brad Bill, bro.

Brad Bill got overpaid by the Wizards. He wasn't worth that money to anybody else. Okay, he had to be on the Wizards to get that crazy max extension. A lot of logical actors would have been like Brad Bill, were 35 wins with you? We can be 25 wins without you and move on with our lives. A lot of trends would have taken that tag. This is not day.

That's not the situation with Dane. Whoever he would have went to would have given him the extension. That's what folks got to understand. And this isn't like, oh, Dane, Dane. It's just like, guys, like, this is the way the business works, right? I do think, though, that like, look at the deals that go out and get signed. Dame makes more on the extension because he did it with Portland, the team that he's been with before. Justin, that's not true.

He would have kept his bird rights if he demanded a trade with. without the extension. He would have got the exact same money if he leveraged the non-extension to move him, to get himself here again. So if he's just going to get the same extension, then like, why even sign it? I guess this is my point.

He wanted to see how things would play out in Portland. Like, I think you seem to think that, you seem to think that Dane never wanted to be in Portland for real. No, no, that's not true at all. I just think that if you accept the money, it's literally that that's what the money is for. You just think he's stupid for even for extending his time with Portland because you think Portland is incompetent. No, I think he should do whatever he wants to, but I don't want to, I'm not going to feel bad for him now because he knew what he was getting into when he signed the extra extension.

No, I don't feel bad for him because he's leaving finally. I'm happy for him. Sure. But if he ends up like in a non-M Miami situation, like that was part of the deal. I wouldn't feel bad about that either. I know, no, I'm happy that he's that he's getting out of there. But again, people need to, like, when people think that things have been fantastic in Portland, and to be completely transparent, Cronin didn't do this.

This was under Neil Olshay. The Lamarkech-Aldry situation, completely and utterly mismanaged. He had some sense that Dane was some superst that, like, was trying to usurp him, yada yada yada of course neil o'shay never managed that relationship um never got these guys in a room together so that dame could be like bro i'm just here to hoop blah blah blah he ends up leaving in free agency um 2016 free agency they lose batum they lose west matthews they lose um la marcus aldridge robin lopez these are all legitimate NBA players they bring in some scrubs The 2017 draft, right?

They did a good deal with Denver to bring in Nerkich. They got off a Plumley. They got a first round pick in the process. They ended up with three first round picks. They ended up trading two of them to move up to get Zach, freaking Collins. The second white being, this guy just drafted in the freaking lobby. Meanwhile, the type of guys that you needed around Dame Lillard were all over that draft, a draft in which they had three freaking picks, Bam out of bio, John Collins, Kyle Kuzma,

OG Annanobie, Donovan Mitchell, all of these guys in a draft that these guys had three picks, they get none of them, okay? The CJ McCollum situation held on to him way too freaking long. When everybody knew that wasn't going to work. This is, again, this isn't like Monday morning quarterbacking Justin. You remember everybody was saying this, that the Damon CJ thing wasn't going to work. But Oldshay was like, I drafted CJ. He's great.

Extend them. Keep him. Never swung the fences for a big time player. And it just, you know, like this, these things actually happened. Yeah. I think, I don't disagree with you. I definitely don't think they made the type of team around him that was on the level some of these other teams. I thought, I mean, Collins had his moments, although he got hurt to

the point where he had to just leave and go somewhere else. I agree with you. You could look back on the draft record and say, oh, they should have done this, should have done that. I don't know if the CJ, like the beautiful, like, CJ trade that was going to bring Dame the appropriate running mate was ever there. And so I think there could be a little bit of retrospect. They were like, trying to manufacture the perfect situation in hindsight where I don't necessarily know what it is. I think part of it was also the problem that Dame was great and the Blazers were good but not great. And thus, like, there's only so much you could do in that situation. So you should argue maybe that, like, Dame probably should have asked out sooner and thus both of the parties could have gotten what they wanted.

But I agree with you. Yeah, like, I don't necessarily think that, like, this was the best situation for Dame. And the writing has been on the wall for a while because of that. I think the argument against Dame is that being a good source. for 11 years is somehow worse than doing it for seven. Like, it's like, if you don't,

if you don't just die with the ship, you're an asshole. Like, that's literally the, that's, that's literally the counter argument against Dame is that he didn't die on the, with the ship. That's it. It's not like, yo,

being committed to the organization in the community for a decade, um, and some change, like, that's just, like, that doesn't matter now. You understand what I'm saying? Because you weren't as highly cynical as you could have been earlier. It's almost like you have to do these two extremes. You have to be some completely cynical, savvy operator,

which people are also repulsed by. Or you need to just bury your head in the sand la KG and wait till you're completely damn cooked damn there to finally, mercifully, be like, get me the hell up out of this damn hellhole. Okay? I personally think that. Yeah, I personally think Dame should do whatever he wants.

And if you want to go somewhere else now, that's up to him. If you want to stay longer than some of the counter arguments that are out there. Sure. In the media specifically. Okay. Well, we do find ourselves now on the precipice of a Dame trip. And even though we do think he's going to go to Miami, I do want to kind of talk through some of the other contenders in the mix here.

because typically when a guy says he wants to go somewhere, he ends up getting there, right? But you do see certain situations like Paul George in Oklahoma City, for instance, is a prime example of like sometimes teams are willing to roll the dice and see what happens. And the one team you're kind of like watching out there is Philly. And you keep hearing about Tyrese Maxie. And we've had this conversation, I feel like three times or something, where it's like, how good is Tyrese maxi actually? because if you trust like what is being whispered

and what Daryl Morey and Philly wants out there, he's basically Will Chamberlain in his prime at this point, right? But clearly that's not the case. But like, is he the best asset they can get of the teams that are kind of in the mix for Dame? Is he like, he's better than Hero, I think, but like how much better than Hero at this point? Like, do you have a feel for like where you are on Maxie?

Like, is he an All-Star? eventually even? I mean, no, he's not an all-star. And on the Fun Max, as my man Brian Winhurst likes to call it, I don't know that that's a great value. You know, I think he could probably get to that level, the Fun Max level and make it justifiable. But I don't think he's some incredible get either.

He was on the Sixes last year. Like, we, you know, like, he was, he's a good player. Don't get a twisted. I think he's, he can even get, you know, better and even savvier in the pick and roll and stuff like that. But for his size and the defensive challenges that he poses, I don't think, I don't know why people are pretending like this guy is going to swing the odds of any team by just showing up on there. He's on the sixes right now. Nobody thinks there's some great shakes for having him. So that's why I don't understand.

The Maxi talk. I'm not saying he's a completely inconsequential player that, you know, you could just sort of poo-poo his existence. I'm not saying that, but the idea that he is, this is swing a damn deal. Like, I mean, come on. Let's be real. And it's specifically for Portland, who, like,

it's the Simons, Shaden Sharp, Scoot, Triumvirate. What are we doing with, like, what are we doing, guys? What are we doing with this? Portland is destined. to just have a small back court in perpetuity. It's like, it's more generational than like a family with diabetes at this point where it's just like, no matter what they do, they're going to end up with two small guards. And then, Shadisharp is like 6-5, 6-6.

You know what I'm saying? At least he's a legitimate wing size. Simons is kind of, he's not as short as Dane, but he's not, he's not as tall as Shaden Sharp. He's like, you know, he's like a tweener in that way. But yeah, I don't understand why Maxie is some huge, like, oh, this is going to be great when we get Maxi in there in Portland. That makes no sense to me. Yeah, the difference between Maxi and Hero isn't as great as I think people are making it seem. And I think Hero has been so diminished because now at this point people are acting like he's just a bum, but I think he's probably

to the finals without him. I know. And that looks bad, but I think people forget that like this guy at the very least is a 20 points per game shooter who could be valuable in the right situation. I think there's a reason that Brooklyn would like to just acquire him for nothing, just to see what he can be. And so, I think there's, there's less of a difference between those two, but I am curious. I want to go through the blue ship assets that a lot of these teams are offering for game, because this is really what it's going to come down to the derby if there is indeed a derby. So you have the Sixers seat in Brooklyn, the three teams that are most often mentioned in this race. And so I have down for the Sixers Maxie, I have hero, or I guess if you want, you could have their unprojected picks.

They don't have many because of some are encumbered. And you have Brooklyn who essentially has the Sun's picks. Which of those three, if you're Portland, are you like saying that's the one I want? It's tough. Of the three main guys or of the three main teams, probably the Sun's future picks for sure. because they're so pot committed right now. And KD is pretty old. So to me, those are the best chances of cashing in

on something really sweet and delicious. So, yeah, to me, that would be the best one for me. But, you know, again, I don't think any of these packages are really that tantalizing, to be honest. Yeah. I actually am more confused from Brooklyn's side of thing of why they would want Dame in the first place. Obviously, Dame's awesome and like he could make them more relevant next season in a way that they probably wouldn't trying to roll back like the Michael Bridges takes 30 shots a game sort of offense. But like I don't know what Dame plus Bridges and Cam Johnson and then whatever else you could put together really gets you.

Like actually that's a good question for you. Like where are you on Dame in Brooklyn? Does that make like any dent in the East? I mean, if they can keep the wing depth, sure. I think they would need some kind of secondary playmaking of some sort, right? Like, if you get like a big man who's able to facilitate at the elbows or, you know, if, if Mikhail Bridges could continue in the path of on-ball domination that he showed at the end of the season, then sure.

but I think, yeah, they're definitely interesting in that, you know, these are the kind of rangy wings who also shoot that Dane Littleland, as I repeat, never played with in his entire life. It's never happened, right? I still... You're sleeping on Al Farucommenu and Murray's Harkless. Shotsamu Harkless, Queens guy, you know, fan of his, but let's be serious, okay? Again, like, I would love to see how they rounded out.

that roster, but again, they don't, and Brooklyn doesn't have the fortune that the sons did of being like, oh, okay, we have this championship sort of contender vibe to our team now. We can go out and get these nice, you know, cheaper veteran type of guys to fill out the roster because they'll be willing to come here and take less because their role is going to be on a team that's doing, you know, that's trying to achieve something significant. And so I don't know if Brooklyn could round out the roster. But again, like, if you're Brooklyn, why am I getting off of my future stuff to chase this day? Specifically after what happened with Kyrie and KD.

It's just like, do something different, Brooklyn. Try something different after the last four years, man. Right. And I do think, like you said, this is kind of a Portland-esque situation for Dame where it's like, it's almost Portland heavy where you have guys who are good, but not necessarily. great, but they are better than probably what you played for and definitely what you were playing with last season. But that brings us to the other like dark horse contenders, which I think is where this really gets interesting, because if you're throwing in a team like the Timberwolves,

now you're saying, well, maybe it's Carl Anthony Towns. And if you're Boston, for instance, not only do you have unprotected picks, but let's say the Jalen Brown situation, which has not yet been resolved, curiously, he hasn't signed his supermax. extension. Like maybe those fall apart and all of a sudden Boston's in the mix. So here are the list of like the dark horse assets. And I want to know what your favorites are from this list. So the wolves have towns.

Boston has Jalen Brown. The Knicks have Jalen Brunson. Okay. And the Jazz have all the unprotected picks in the world from the calves and the wolves. Are any of those teams now interesting you if you're Portland? Oh, I mean. I think I like Towns if I'm Portland for the fact that it's not going to actually interfere with my rebuilds. I don't think Towns is going to lift the team in such a way that they just start winning.

And inordinate amount of games, I truly don't believe that. But I think having Scoop play around with what Towns being able to leverage Towns' shooting ability, I think would be incredible. So I like that. Jalen Brown, I find that to be, again, like, you know, positionally, he's a wing, but you go out and you super, you have to supermax him immediately. And again, he is not of the level of Dame Lillard as a player, but you start running into the same dame-ish problems. Right?

But again, the same thing with talents. Like, he's already on a supermax. and, like, I don't, that's what I don't understand about this shit. It's like, do you want to win or not? And then, but that's why teams opt for these future assets because they want to stay on this consistent path of building via young guys. Bringing in the type of star-level, all-star kind of guys disrupts that path. And so with Towns and Jalen Brown, I don't, I don't see how to.

at works. Jalen Brunson, I don't see how, you would have to include him in the dame deal. And like the dude who was literally there when he was born in the fucking hospital is going to ship him out immediately after how great he's played for the Knicks. He's become his beloved Nicky. Yes. Like, he's just going to jettison this dude. Like, as heartless as the businesses, that's not how those CAA guys operate. They kind of operate in this, you know,

La Familia. When you're in the family, you're in. Like, I don't see them doing that. But yeah, and the jazz, yeah, their stuff, the jazz makes the most sense. Because, again, they can offer these future unprotected picks from various teams. And that's what Portland should want, theoretically, for getting Dame up out of here. It just, I think, speaks to what a no-win situation, a team is in trying to, to jettison their superstar because I agree with you. I think the unprotected picks probably make

the most sense because you don't get in the way of whatever young building blocks you have now drafted, which has forced dame out of the team, right? So yeah, that makes sense for them. But I also think like a lot of these unprotected picks are kind of funny money. As we talked about in the past where it's like, do these unprotected picks actually turn into something? Sometimes you'll get lucky. You'll get a guy like Jaylen Brown from a Nets trade because the Nets were just so disastrous to just happen to lock into a couple number three, number one sort of picks. But I don't see that happening for the Cavs or the Wolves anytime as soon as bad as the Wolves trade was. And so you're like, oh, well, they should take the best player. But then we're like, oh, well, towns probably makes

them too good to be terrible in order to draft well and probably puts them into similar Dame situation. So like, where do we end up here? And it's just like, I understand where you, you maybe keep Dame too long because this is a. bad situation to be in. So I'll say this for as bad as it is for teams. It's better than what it was when LeBron

and Bosch and these guys are gut punching their teams or how motherfuckers described it back then as gut punches who left quote unquote for nothing. Now teams get shit for their guys who leave. I think that's a win for the

team. Like unless you want to say, gosh shouldn't be allowed to leave. You know, if guys are going to be allowed to lead, this is the best scenario for Portland that they're actually going to get some level of value for Dame instead of him playing out this, again, playing out the string this year and just leaving in free agency next summer. You know, like, this is a better outcome for them. Yep. So much so, remember, nobody's going to be writing a comic sans letter after they get a bunch of

future first round picks for Dame Lillard, okay? people who are older than 12 years old listening to this will understand that reference. Yes, it will be a very flowery, aerial, faunted, just goodbye letter thanking Dame for all of his years. No comics sans here. But it does bring us to the other side of this, which is the players who want to be traded every six months.

And that's ultimately where our friend James Harden finds himself. This is question number three if you're tracking. The first two questions took a while, but this is number three. we haven't talked about the James Hardin situation. I think I could guess where you stand on it, but I do want to hear it. Like, were you surprised when our friend James opted back in and is now like putting his fate in the hands of one Darrell Morey? Yes and no, because I was absolutely shocked.

I remember I had my man Derek Bodner on, on, like, the podcast, and I remember him saying they're not going to max out James Hardin last summer. Before Free Agency and all of that, I was like, man, it's Mori. Oh, I feel like they're pretty much got gun to their head right now. And he was like, bro, I got it on good authority. They're not maxing this dude out. And they didn't do it, right? And then, of course, how it got spun was James was being, you know, he was being team first,

allowing them to go grab PJ and this and then team friendly deal. and, you know, it's going to kick the can down the road. But then, and I was like, okay, I guess they're just going to pay this guy the next summer. But then, Justin, on Christmas Eve, the previous Christmas Eve, we get this Houston stuff, which we know is coming out of the Hardin camp, because why? Who would it benefit for it to be out there that Houston is a potential suitor for James Hardin? thereby raising the price that it might cost to keep him. Obviously, that's coming out of Hardens camp

because it's to his benefit, right, to have more suitors, aka more leverage. So I'm just like, why does James Harden need to put this out if he's going to get paid, you know? But then, you know, you watch them in the playoffs and he stinks up the joint, but it's like, there's no better alternative to this. So I felt like they kind of had,

he kind of had them over a barrel, but salute to Darrell and them for putting their foot down and be like, nah, fam, we're not paying you like a super duper plus star. No, we're not. And Hardin had a temper tantrum and he opted into his deal. But to me, this just speaks to Hardin doesn't actually have a market for real. If somebody wanted to pay him, you know, maybe there was a Fred Van Vleet deal out there for him somewhere. It wasn't. And I think he's got, he doesn't have the human to just be like, yo, sign me for three years, one hundo, and let's keep it pushing. You know, give me a player's option at the end of the three years. And I don't think he had the humility for that.

And so this is where we're at. Yeah, it's a pretty bad sign when the team that you're hoping to use potentially as leverage, or even as some sort of like beautiful homecoming where you didn't get what you want outside of Houston. You could go back and do what you did before is basically like we would rather Fred And I love Fred Benvli. It's a totally fine culture signing, but yeah, James Hardin has been on another level in this league for a very long time. And it just seems like he is simultaneously at like a Westbrook situation where he sees himself

at a certain value in a certain station, but the rest of the league does not. And is also in this weird spot where he's way better than Russell Westbrook is in the regular season, the point where he was like a fringe all-star triple double guy, even playing a more diminished past first role in Philly. in the postseason, he's a guy you can't rely on. You'd probably rather rely on De Anthony Melon at that point. And so he's just like one of the more confusing careers I can ever remember. And then he tossed on top of this, the fact that he's going to be playing potentially for the fourth team in three years.

And might not even stay there because apparently he can't sign an extension with his next team because he only has two years of non bird rights stacked up. And so what's the move for him? Does he go back to Philly? Do you like the fit with the clippers If they could pull something off? So look, in the past, I've tried to defend James Hardin in his game. Have you?

After the, yeah, no, I have. Because it got on my nerves when NBA Twitter dorks would be like, oh, James Hardin is unwatchable because he forces people to follow him. I'm just like, bro, that's the game. Like, it's an efficient shot. He's being good at winning. He's been a winner. That's the thing.

Like he's, yo, he was propping up not very talented Rockets teams and getting them close to or over 50 wins year after year after year, man. Like he has been a very consequential player in this league. However, when you hear the murmurs about his workout habits or routines or just the lack of seriousness about keeping his body at. tip-top shape. Of course, the way he utterly quit on Houston, quit on the nets, and now, obviously, he's probably threatening to do the same to Philly.

I'm just like, why do you want that in your building? I don't see, like, now, like, if you're a team, like, say, Charlotte or something, where you got a lot of low-up side, you know? Like, what are you playing for, realistically. If they was like, yo, we want to bring James Hardin in. It ups our talent level.

And it makes us more interesting. All right, cool. If you're a team that has serious, legitimate aspirations, why are you bringing James Hardin into your building? So you don't like it for the clippers. Wally still thinks he's the shit. Yeah. So you don't like it for the clippers,

even if it was like Norm Powell, some of the guys that they just have for depth. you don't like it as him being the guy next to Kwai and Paul George. Come on, man. Come on, man. I'm trying to sell you on this, all right? We're talking about a place in the Clipperland that doesn't, let's face it, they're not known for having a very strong culture.

Kauai Leonard does a lot of things. He is nobody's culture center. He is nobody's team leader. He's not taking the mantle. He's coming. He's going to do excellent work. Whenever he works, he is not the folk room, the focal point of the team.

Paul George, another guy whose game I've loved forever, ever since I've watched him dual prime LeBron James in the Eastern Conference playoffs. I always had an affinity for Paul George. He's nobody's culture center. He's not going to be telling people

what to do and getting people in line. You're going to bring James Hardin into that? Good luck. In a way, he fits their culture because they have no culture, you know? fair. Okay, that's fair. It's the absence of culture. He won't be disrupting anything. Yeah, exactly. Right in that regard. Yeah, no, I don't know if it's not the clippers who's left then.

Like maybe, let's say Dame gets traded somewhere else. Maybe Miami gets desperate and it's just like, well, we'll take the quick fix upgrade. Harden at the very least is on an expiring contract so you know he'll be motivated in order to try to at least earn a next contract. But I'm looking around the league, like there aren't clear options. I think it speaks to the depth of talent at point guard around the league and also like where James Hardin is at this point where it's just like not every team to the point where like very few teams actually need him. Yeah, I think that's why I think cooler heads are going to prevail and he's just going to end up back in Philly. See, and that might be the worst possible scenario because then you're just rolling back last year

waiting for him to flame out in the postseason yet again, you know? And like maybe the odds are better this time around. You give him another opportunity. He'll be good in the right games as opposed to in this postseason where he was good in the right games, but I don't know, man. It's tough. I think, you know, I think if you want to spend this in a positive light, they should have beat Boston, you know.

They should have been, they were right there in the conference finals. It's not that like they got whooped in that second round series, right? So if you want to look at this in a more. positive light, you could be like, look, man, we were one or two plays from the Eastern Conference finals. We would have loved our matchup against Miami, you know, and the next thing you know, we're in the finals. Look, I don't actually believe that. I think Miami would have beat these guys, too. But you can tell yourself that if you want to view things in a more positive light. And I think, honestly, that's what I think they should do. Darrell, like James

Hardin in a lot of ways made this guy. And so, you know, he, Like, your credibility is very tied to what James Harden did with you out in Houston. Ride it out. Let cooler heads prevail, you know, and be like, yo, James, man. Like, we just couldn't pay you $200-something million to be the person that you were in the playoffs last year. That don't make no damn sense because you're only going to get worse than that. Right. You know, well, this is just reasonable stuff.

I don't know what they're going to do, but I'm sure we'll be hearing. about it every day for the next two months because that's how long Daryl is going to string this out. So strap in, folks. I do want to get your take on the rest of free agency, though. A lot of action. I don't know how much of it really impacts the broader title race. We'll get into that. But of these teams, like, what were, what was like the least favorite thing that you saw?

We'll do least and most favorite. Like, which team now is most confusing to you as a result of everything that happened over the past couple days? Um, confusing. I wouldn't say, but, and I understand why they did it, but the sub bonus deal. I just, I'm not fan of that. Like bringing back Subonis or using their cap space that they opened up and they're just like, it's just why? And just watching what he did, they have been in such a more bound situation for so long. I understand the enthusiasm for finally having something dope to happen to your squad.

Like, I get that enthusiasm, but the subonest thing is a head scratcher. Vucovich, I hear people talking about, oh, Vouchis now to the point where he's underrated. Not here. He is not underrated, y'all. He is not a great player. He's not like, he doesn't do, he doesn't affect winning in a meaningful way at all, dude. Just what he brings to the table is like some nice scoring ability, but he's not a dominant scorer.

He's like a cool score, right? And so Vooch and what they're doing in Chicago, I'm just like, man, you know, I'm not crazy about that. And I think the Rockets thing, a lot of people are just like, you bring in Fred Van Vleet to be an adult and, like, culture, and you want to have the right guys around your team, which Fred Van Vleet, one of my favorite players in the league,

his story to get to this deal, it's incredible. I truly think his story is one that every Hooper in the world should know personally, right? Because it's just such a cool. story that he's gotten himself to this point. It's incredible. And so, yeah, I'm like, yeah, Fred Van Vlitt to me, he applies to any team's needs. Just what he does on the court, his ability to sort of play on ball or off ball. And he'll fight the hell out of people on screens.

He can't even guard up sometimes because he's so damn strong and, you know, like high motor, high intensity. Like, he is everything for every team. So even in a young rebuilding squad, I'm like, oh, yeah. Yeah, break for Van Vleeton. And as much as I told people, Dylan Brooks was going to get paid. Nobody wanted to believe me.

I'm like, this guy's the second team all-N-B-A defense. Like, he's literally one of the five best defensive players at his position, at a premium defensive position. He's the one you got to put up against Braun and Kauai Leonard and Paul George and Jimmy Butler and Jason Tatum and all. Like, it's him, right? But God damn.

$80 million to do it. So, and the thing about it, too, it's like, I don't think 20 million a year is unfair for a starter level wing, right? I don't think it's unfair. I just think, like, some of the stuff that got out of hand in Memphis was that he was there so early on the ground floor that the young guys, the more important guys, didn't feel like they had the standing to rein him in. And so Houston is so young, like, who's raining this guy in?

Maybe it is email doca. Maybe he is that big of a hard ass, and he's going to MF him to death and get that guy in line. Maybe that's the thing, but that's the one where I was just like, I thought this guy was going to get paid, but sheesh. Yeah. I liked him as an underrated free agent who you could potentially steal around the mid-level, right?

Like maybe whatever like shenanigans over the postseason just diminished his value to the point where people didn't see the good in Brooks, that like, yeah, like he didn't shoot too well, but he's still, like you mentioned, one of the best offenders at his position. This was not a bargain price. And so not only to get $20 million a year, but to get for four years. So now you're potentially encumbering like your future when guys like Jaylon Green and Smith and whomever need to get extended.

And so that's going to be pretty difficult. I don't know what they were thinking. I guess in the best case scenario, these guys won't overlap with a lot of the other guys. they're more complimentary to a green and a Smith and potentially Eman, Amin Thompson, but I don't know. It just seemed like they were trying to buy class and it cost them a lot of money to do so. I would put Struz in the same scenario where it's like, I really like Struz. I think like he could be good for a lot of different teams.

Four for 63. It's a ton of money. And as we've talked about before with the Cavs, like they need to fill that three and D roll. And so now they find themselves over. reaching a little bit, which is like, okay, we'll see how it works. But on the back end, this could be pretty detrimental because this is probably your big swing to fill that fifth spot. So the reason I'm less down on that is that if Max Struz comes in and fulfills his role, he's worth that money to that specific team, right? He's not worth that money to a team going

nowhere. But a team that has sort of contention, aspirations, and this gaping hole in your starting lineup was hindering you from actually, from actualizing that potential, I kind of see the logic in it. You know, if he's able to shoot it at 37%, you know, decent volume and give them the three-point shooting stuff, I think that's cool. Like, don't expect him to do anything with the ball in his hand, y'all. That's, that's... ain't going to happen, but if he's able to sort of take the top off of the defense in certain ways and open things up for these other guys, I could strain and see. But I think in a more just world, Justin, Dylan Brooks would have signed for like three years, 48, and Struz would

have got the mid-level, right? He would have got basically the same deal that Gabe Vincent got. but because he plays at a more premium position, he got more. But, you know, for whatever reason, these guys, they were like, yo, we need it. We need it right now. And just to say that again, again, I know people are like, yeah, you got a hard off of Game Vinson because I do. But like, I think Gabe Vinson was better than him in the playoffs.

He was more reliable than Max Trues, especially on offense in the playoffs. So that's why. Yeah, he doesn't have the same track record shooting the ball, but like he was nails in the playoffs and a guy you could definitely rely on. I definitely think it's interesting. I have, I don't know, like seven or eight teams on my list of least favorite moves, and they're all happened to be like small markets. It's just a nice reminder.

It's like, oh, yeah, like the Cavs can trade for Donovan Mitchell and all these other small markets can get in on the big trade derby. But when it comes to free agency, like guys want to play in L.A. in the coast. And it costs you a lot to get the kind of average level upgrade that I think you need. for that. And so one of these teams I want to talk about, which is Indy, who overpaid ostensibly for your boy, Brucey B, two years 45 million. Good Lord, guys getting star money for basically playing just like, just cutting and Nicola Yucut's just feeding the ball. So shouts to him, but I have to say like in totality, I kind of loved Indy's offseason. This is

amongst my favorites and the teams I'm most encouraged by because Brown is overpaid, yes, but he plays an awesome role. And if he could do he did for Halliburn, what he did for Yokic, I could definitely see that marriage working. And then getting Obie Toppin for basically nothing, like, I don't think Obie Toppin's a future star because Tibbs hates his freaking guts. That's it. Right, exactly. And it's not just that. It's because he wanted to play Julius Randall ahead of him.

So you're compounding the issue in that, like, you have a player you don't necessarily want to be wedded to for too long, who is now blocking the progress of your young, I believe, number eight draft pick. And now we have to dump him just because we can't fit in all these salaries. And we want to sign like the ninth Villanova Wildcat for our team because apparently this is a whole reunion happening in New York for some reason. So yeah, I like it for Indy. I don't get it for New York. I love the indie. I love indie stuff just like you. I love them last year before guys, they started losing guys to injury and stuff like that.

But they played with incredible pace. You slot Obie topping into that. It's just a picture. perfect match made in heaven. I think, and to Tibbs, like, to Tibbs credit, I will say he's had, like, the bet, like, he's most optimized as some sort of a small ball five kind of player. And just defensively, he just never got it done. And we know how Tibbs, he's a maniac about that kind of thing.

And so I understand the Tibbs part of it. I just think in Indy, he slots in with the temperament and the style of the team. And that's why God should be excited and Indy will be a team that's appointment viewing for me on League Pass next season for that reason. I love the horses that they got. And then when they, you know, inevitably get my man Aiton up in there for Miles Turner.

It's going to be they're going to be cooking with gas. Right. What did you think about the Lakers offseason? Because I have them as another winner for me. Love it, love it, love it. Obviously, I mentioned my love of Gay Vincent Tori and Prince is somebody who I've always been enamored with because he's kind of a junkyard dog kind of guy

but will make an open shot, which is kind of rare for those type of players. And so just a perfect type of guy that you typically can slot around what LeBron and AD are doing on pick and roll. I think some people winced at the Rui Hachamora number. I think it's, I think that number is indicative of a guy that is not quite as strong.

supernova as he was in the playoffs, but also not as ridiculously inconsistent as he was in Washington. I think that guy is what that number is indicative of. Because I think the play that he was in the playoffs is it's Miles Bridges territory. You know what I mean? Miles Bridges on Phoenix, I mean. Like, it's that, we're going towards that territory in payment. So he didn't get that.

He didn't get $100 million. But, you know, people who watched him. for years with the Wizards would be like, if that's all you're going off of, it's a completely ridiculously insane contract. But I think he found something last season. And of course, Austin Reeves are our savior. Lord and Savior.

Our Lord and Savior. Austin Reeves, obviously, I'm happy he's back and they got him at a reasonable number, legitimately their third best player last year. DeAngelo Russell, I mean, whatever. I guess. You know. You retain the asset.

Yeah, it's fine. And I think the number is what it is. And, you know, now you get repackage, repurposed and some other deal if they so choose to down the line. Yeah. They have options now. They could just roll back what they did last season or the back end of last season in the playoffs and just be that quality team. If they find like they want to and need like a. major upgrade. They now have some contracts that seem movable and you can put them together,

that they're not long and they're also not bad players like with Hachamura and even Russell's on a two-year deal. And so like they have flexibility in a way that they haven't had in a long time. And like, worst case, LeBron just plays 50 games and AD plays 50 games and you just paste them out through the regular season. So I expect them to be right back in the thick of the West race and probably the title race depending on how things shake out with Dame and whatnot. And so that brings us to our ultimate question, which I think I could forecast for you, but I'm going to ask it to you anyway. Are the nuggets still the favorites based on everything we've seen thus far? I think they would have to be. And it's not just because of their best players are still on the team, right?

Their top four is still on the team. Losing Bruce Brown sucks. Losing Jeff Green sucks. losing Thomas Brian doesn't suck that much. But I think we've just seen that, like, Yokic is going to figure out how to maximize what you can bring to the table in the biggest moments. And I think most importantly, like, the sons are now very top-heavy and talent, and they are quite talented. However, when the going gets tough in the playoffs,

do you, Justin, think they will have built enough continuity and trust within what their shit will be eventually and ultimately to beat the best teams in the biggest moments. I personally don't think that's going to happen. I think between the injuries that KD is probably going to sustain and, you know, what you have to do to build this continuity, I don't see it happening. But, you know, I could be wrong about that too. You know, but I just think the nuggets, they still have their best players and they have,

have championship equity continuity biggest moments they can trust one another and lean on each other in a way that these cats in the west man uh i just don't see it for them yeah i feel like the sons are an eight and trade away from being at the same level as the nuggets i think this is helped by the fact that the nuggets had probably a pretty bad summer thus far and the fact that they brought back dandre jordan like within seconds is a little curious to me and like getting Reggie Jackson. He played real minutes in the fun. He played real minutes in the, like, consequences.

Should he have? Should he have? It is the question. He got a block shot. It was like, what in the hell is going on out there? I know. I am a little, like, kind of waiting to see with Calvin Booth making some of these decisions for the Nuggets because, like, you could look back even on the Bruce Brown contract

and be like, oh, did he really, like, foresee him having this major breakthrough? Or was this, like, an undervalued contract on the market that he just kind of gave a flyer too. But so like, I don't know. I don't love what they did, but they have had the success drafting and Christian Brown and Peyton Watson. People are high on him. Like, we'll see what that. And so that's why I would say the nuggets are probably still there. But the sons for me are like, they're right there. And I think either Ait needs to have a breakthrough under Frank Vogel that he didn't have under our friend Monty Williams. And maybe that's just like having a new voice or or whatever. or maybe just like turning the page there

or actually trading him for two quality rotation players. Like I love the Miles Turner trade. I think that makes sense for both parties. But like you need someone to actually try to box out Nicola Yokic and until I am sure of that, I'm not ready to put them on the same page. But like I think they're right there. And then probably the Lakers would be right there underneath them.

So it's going to be interesting. But any talk about like the sun's being like not being able to figure it out because Beal's too duplicative of a Booker? Like, I think that's all bullshit. I think, like, I think they're going to be good. Yeah, I'm not buying that their talent, quote, unquote, doesn't fix. I think it's all that is this sort of ancillary stuff, right? Continuity stuff, injury luck, that kind of thing, I think, is what could hold them back,

potentially going forward. But they have a team that is capable of winning the championship. There's just no doubt in my mind about that. Yeah. All right. let's wrap it there we'll be back on friday coming to you live after the debut hopefully of our friend victor webin yama uh thank you to isaiah blakley on production uh we'll see you next time