The Ringer NBA Show - Rasheed Wallace on Why the NBA Prioritizes Scoring, Perception vs. Reality With Media Narratives, and Winning a Title With the Pistons | Real Ones

Episode Date: November 16, 2023

Logan and Raja are joined by four-time NBA All-Star Rasheed Wallace to discuss how the league prioritized scoring over defense and how that changed how games were officiated (1:26). Next, the former NBA champion explains what it was like getting traded by the Washington Bullets after his rookie year, adapting to life in Portland and playing for the Trail Blazers, and perception vs. reality with media narratives (7:28). Along the way, Wallace breaks down the differences between his Portland team that lost to the Lakers in Game 7 of the Western Conference Finals and his Detroit Pistons team that won the Finals in 2004 (27:48). Later, he talks about what it’s like to see today’s NBA big men model their game after him and how the style of play has changed (44:17). Finally, the guys close with their Real Ones of the Week (65:13). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout ringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Rasheed Wallace Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from Offguard, and I've got some exciting news. Offguard hosted by me and my guide Pasha Giggi is officially moving to our own podcast feed. We are now dropping two shows every week. Me and Pasha go way back and talk so much hoops already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on these conversations. Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest stories happening around the league. Tap into the show twice a week on our new Offguard feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Roger, we have a great guest on with us. One of my faves. But you, the former NBA player,

go introduce the guests. Go do your thing. Who we got? Who we got in the building. Man, but this is one of Philly's finest, as he just called it, Chapel Thrills, like one of their all-time greats, played on some of the best teams in NBA history, and one of my all-time fans. favorites, man. Rasheed. Wallace. Wallace. Hey, bro, thanks for coming on, bro. Appreciate you, though. Uh, man, no problem, no problem at all, man. Thanks for

having me, good brother. That's what I'm. Been too long. It's so good to have you on, but we do have a question for you to start it off, Sheed. Now, what's that? We have a, we have a, there was a clip circulating around Munderdog Fantasy about you on a, one of, actually

was a very compelling interview. But Raja's name was brought up. We want to get a little bit more context. So Raja's name was brought up in terms of refereeing. And the interview that you did was great interview. I learned a lot about refereeing on that interview. But one of the things that stood out was something you said about Raja and about him, the way he was reft affected his standing in the league.

Let's have a conversation about that before we get to the topics. Rashid, what was the point you were trying to? to convey and I'm ready to get Roger's response. What were you trying to convey on the clip and what it, and I want to get Roger's response after that? Well, the thing was, Raja was good and bad

for the league. You know what I'm saying? Back when we were in the NBA, you know, we have skill sets. You know, guys have multiple skill sets. We played things. And back when we played, Roger was a Halicashid defender. You had your, you had your Sunday afternoon games or like maybe

your Thursday night games or or whenever they televised, like, you know, the key matchup, big games of the week. And this was, actually, it didn't matter what team he the fuck was on. So whenever he played against Kobe, right away, like in the beginning, all right, you know, they was going at it. That's how to leave found out like, damn, like this motherfucker is Dee and Kobe up. Like, oh, he's all up in him.

And night in, night out with every other good two guard and point guard that was in the league. So, and I saw it myself just, you know, viewing basketball and being part of basketball back then. So as Rajah picked up his defensive presence in the league, Cass at the top was like, nah, we got to stop this. We can't have him going out there locking Kobe up or going at Kobe like that because it's going to be bad for ratings.

Everybody want to see Kobe score and come down and dunking up. Roger was like, no, cut that shit out. We ain't doing that shit today. I don't care about the league or what you're trying to do, the ratings or whatever. I'm trying to win this ball. game. So, but right away, you always pick up two quick bullshit fouls.

The same way I did in most instances. Two quick bullshit, Jones, like, come on. So now automatically, you got to sit the rest of the first quarter and the first, like, six or seven minutes of the second quarter. So now you stiff. You're trying to finish out the last six minutes

of the half to salvage whatever you can for that first half. So now you're like, all right, I got the whole second half to play. I got maybe three foul. So I got three more to go the second half. Third quarter start right away. They're going to get some bullshit, yo.

And then, you know, so that way, you know, Kobe and all the other two guards and shit were shooting and scoring. So I was like, man, you know, I saw it back then. You know, and it was like, man, that's a shame that, you know, this league is not like football. See, football, they want to see

the 80-yard passes or the guy runs 70 yards on the run play for a touchdown. it's exciting. But for basketball, yo, a dunk and a three-pointer is going to be part of the game anyway.

So that shouldn't have been emphasized more, especially in Phoenix, when y'all had to go against them shit. It was minimum five times a year because you count the four times during the regular season and then maybe the playoff matchup, you know what I'm saying,

was a little different. But man, y'all, and that shit was crazy, though. It was crazy. I was like, yo, it's a damn shame they taking the offense over defense. But I appreciate that sheet. I do because look, you know, you know, it's only so many, it's only so many balls to go around

in the NBA. It's only so many shots can be shot. And so I kind of figured out early, like, you know, I wasn't a first round pick. I'm scrapping to get in. Like, the way I could eat and potentially feed my family was to do that, right? So it really meant something to me. Now, you know, first of all, never professed to be a Kobe stopper. Like, that was, that's ridiculous.

You, like, that's, like, come on, dog. Like that don't even make sense. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's crazy. Yeah, I got. My memory of the Ruth Patterson. Yeah, yeah. No, but listen, I ain't got to.

Rube wore it like I wore it. Like, this was, this was personal. This was, this was our livelihood. So, like, I'm not going to be afraid to go out there and, and come at you. Like, what I look like hopping out on a court against another grown man having some fear about what's about to happen between these lines. That's crazy.

So what I think happened, honest to God, was we were in a kind of golden era, if you will, of like David Sturr being able to take that league from this defensive 80 to 90 point a game like entity that was consumed. But then he realized, hey, man, if we could get this up to like a hundred and change and the cobies and the and the chucks and the, you know, the stars that were scoring all the balls could be up in the 40s and 50s, you know, and to do that, you got to shoot free throws. This is what I tell people. Like, to average 30 a night in the NBA, it's not just purely a skill set.

There are a lot of brothers that that have the skill set to possibly be able to do that. It's whether or not you get the calls to supplement the nights when you are off. Right? Because if you're not getting the call, the best players are shooting from the perimeter, what? High 40s, low 50s. So that's half the shots you're missing. On the nights when you go cold, if you're not getting free throws, you don't average 30 a game. And that's the separator.

So, like, that's what they were, like, David Stern, we were in a time where, or I was, where, like, the league wanted the scoring. And if you were going to stand in the way of that and they could affect it sometimes, it was, you know, it's not, this is entertainment value at some point, at some level, right? And I had to learn that being in it. I want to ask this to get started with, with Sheed. One of the things that I find fascinated about is you just, is the, is how you were able to, your level of bouncing. fact it in this. And I know that's not a word in theory, but in practice it is definitely a lifestyle. You feel

what I'm saying, right? I'm looking at your career and I'm thinking, you know, what rookie gets traded right after going on the all-MBA rookie team? And me and Rajah always talk about how you have to stay in it as your career progresses. What was the mindset like when you get traded

in that type of way? You know, you have a team that seems to be building with you. And it's not like you sucked your rookie year and they could just say, oh, yeah, we should trade him. What is the mindset that happens when you get traded at such an early age like that? And then you have to go to a place like Portland and you don't, you know, you're an East Coast guy. I'm sure you're not know much about Portland before you get there. But what's the mindset of somebody that has to continue to just try to carve out a career when, you know, it's derailed that early?

Well, for me, it was two things. One, with me being drafted by the Washington Bullets, which are now the Wizards, being down there in D.C., that's Chocolate City. You know what I'm saying? You had a lot of prominent black figures that lived down there. I lived in a prominent black neighborhood, which was actually down the street from Landover USA Arena. It was Landover.

Out there in Prince George County, PGC. So I lived down the street from the arena. and so I was living in the neighborhood and a majority of that neighborhood, excuse me, was prominent black figures, lawyers, doctors, you know, those who own their own businesses, right? So I'm like, oh, shit, it's about to be on and cracking out here. You know, I'm playing with Webb. I'm playing with Juwan.

I got two-fifths of the fab five. I'm like, man, it's about to get cracking out here. So went through that whole season. Webb got hurt that put me in the starting lineup for a few games. But I definitely enjoyed myself and I learned a lot of things. And a guy who put me onto a lot, Bill Real Talk, was Joanne Howard and my old head, Bob McCain. They kind of, Joanne Howard showed me and was telling me things on, even at that young age, it was only, I think, like his fourth year in the league, I think, third or fourth year.

Even at that young age, he was still a professional about it. You know what I'm saying? Juan, he came in suits and everything. You know why everybody else, we had sweatsuits and this and that. before they implemented the dress code. So my rookie season was cool. But when they finally traded me, at first, I was mad because I'm like, damn, we got a good team.

We just missed the playoffs by one game. I'm like, man, how could they do this? But I sat back, you know, talking with my old head, Bob McCain. He's like, hey, man, he was like, look at it. He said, do you know who you're playing behind? He said, you're playing behind Chris Weber, who's on a $68 million contract. think, or something of that nature. You're playing behind Joanne Howard, who actually for, get y'all little bar trivia,

Joanne Howard was the first player in the NBA to sign a hundred million dollar contract. He signed a contract for $105 million. And he said, you're playing behind them two cats. He was like, you're a liability. He was like, yeah, he was like, yeah, they're going to trade your ass. And, you know, he was telling me this after, of course, they already traded me. So I go from, I go from Chocolate City out of Portland, which is predominantly, a white city or white state.

So it's a culture shot. But to be honest, I love my time out in Portland. At that time, I was married. I had kids. It's a great family atmosphere. It's a lot of family things that went on out there. So when I got traded, my mindset originally was like, at first, for the first five minutes, it was immature.

It was like, you know, fuck them, man. I hope this and that happen to them and da-da-da-da. But then, but all right, but it is business. It makes sense because in a couple years, in two years, they're going to have to pay me because my rookie contractor be over. So I'm like, all right, it's cool. So I went out to Portland. Ran into two more great veterans with Aaron McKee, who was my teammate in high school.

You played for Portland? Yeah, I played with Blue in high school. I didn't know that. That's my guy, dog. That's my guy. Him and Cliff Robinson was my other vet who was out there at the time. And, you know, they told me a lot about, you know, the business of basketball itself. Before, remember, Roger, we had to have those player meetings where they, quote, unquote, the business of basketball.

And all they wanted to do is get us to invest in fast food shit. Right, right. But, I mean, that's what it was, low key. Right. Wait, wait, wait, what are these meetings? What are these meetings? What's going on? What's the, what are these meetings?

No, these are, like, what was it? Like, three times a year you would have a different type of meeting. It would be like, there would be a financial one, there would be an educational one, and then there might be one about like, about relationships and so on and so forth. And a financial one, they'd always bring you a thousand examples of brothers that had come through the NBA and people who had networked and used their resources to become successful business people after the NBA. And almost all of the most successful ones were franchised or owners of different like fast food

drinks. Pizza huds, Burger Kings, McDonald's. We like, yeah, McDonald's. We like, shit. And that was what they bought tours, though. But it was like, all right, it was definitely a culture shot. And then

just knowing that that's when I started to look at a whole lot of things and notice a whole lot of things that, okay, this, on this level, it ain't about game for real. they well at least at least players is about game

for a majority of the players is about game but for their front office cats man it's all about them dollars you know what I'm saying and so they're going to go with the bigger teams you know that's why like if the NBA is behind you in my opinion if the NBA is behind you they're going to be behind like when we won it that year we won

that next season man we only had like eight TV games just think of other teams who have won it how many TV games they got. They on TV at least, yeah, with the piston. They on TV at least three times a week when you got other teams that wins the NBA championship. You know what y'all were doing, O'Shee. You know what you were doing. You know what that team did. I mean, you played on it. We killed rating. Yeah, y'all were slowing it down. You were beating people up. You were grinding the game down. And that's not what they wanted. At all. Right. Anyone who listens know that I ask everybody about those vets. Because I think that they were so important. Blue was one of my great vets too.

I didn't know y'all were on a team. But I want to ask you about the dynamic going from, you know, Washington where there's probably a cap on what you're going to be able to do just because of personnel ahead of you. And then the dynamic between a young player and his vet, when that young player is like, look, man, I know I'm young, but I'm trying to take this, I'm trying to take this throne right now. Like, I want, I need this. And like that evolution of like the passing of the torch, so to speak, did you have dudes that that ever bristled at that?

Or was everybody pretty cool about understanding the sheet was going to be what sheet is and we can't stand in the way of that? I don't know. I guess if I sit back and look at it, I guess it was more like, all right, we're not going to stand in the way that. Because for me,

it's like I'm the megaphone for what a lot of people want to say. But I just say it. You know, even during my time in the league, it was a lot of things that I was ridiculed for saying, but what happened? End up being true. So I feel like, you know, most cats, the way I looked at it is it was a respect level. Like, you know, I respect a whole lot of dudes that played in the NBA. And one thing, one thing, if you ever noticed, I never had no real beef night in, night out,

weekend, week out, times we played these teams. It was never like, all right, I'm going to see you next game. I'm going to kick your ass. Yeah, it's going to be this. It's going to be. No, it was never that. My beef was more with management, you know what I'm saying? The referees and, you know, more the way that the NBA, in my opinion, they say they were behind this,

but they're the first one to throw us out there and fish fry when some shit happened. But then when, you know, something happened on their end, you know, they're asking us to be hush-hush about it. So, you know, I felt as though I was always the megaphone for most part. And I think that's one of the things that most of the, most of my compadres, uh, respected me for an elite. I want to talk about the basketball side of your side in Portland, but I do want to talk about just even when you talk about the blazers of that era, a lot

of things that gets brought up is, you know, y'all, a lot of weed, a lot of weed. And now that we have gotten to, now that we have gotten to a place as a society, you know, with how we look at weed, how do you feel about that right now, right?

It's legislated out of the game like players can smoke now, you know, and during your area, I remember watching the same interview and you were talking about honestly y'all should go watch the interview on underdog fantasy was hilarious but you talk about a time where you got i think it was from seattle or something like that you guys driving from seattle back to portland and y'all got him done for weed and it got on and i don't even think you guys got charged or anything but that was the narrative of you guys they don't even think about the chapel show when they're talking about this the shepel show the skit where they were they

smoke it and they say rachid wallace What's one of the funniest kids of all time? But even what I'm saying, though, even the perception of that, what was the perception versus reality back then when you guys were smoking versus now and what you see now where it isn't a bit as big of a deal now in our basketball society, sports society at large?

How do you feel about all of those things right now? I mean, back then, I see this step. You know, it steps as it progresses, not only with the league, but just with society. you know, back then it was welcomed by society for us to be smoking around town. You know what I think? The whole town smoked. So it wasn't like, oh shit, my sheep, why is he smoking?

Like, oh, she, what's up? She's like, you know, hey, what's up, bro? You know, so that whole perception of us, you know, being all out of control and, you know, this and that. But think about, I want you all to think about one thing. With that team that you're referring to, they call this the jailblazer. Can y'all tell me who want the jail? Yeah, that's, that's, I mean, that all speaks to the narrative. You know, what you're saying, like, I think what you're,

the narrative that they're trying to create and perpetrate out there to paint, you know, and that, you know, that's kind of shitty. I, I, that, that, not kind of shitty. That's all the way shitty. Do you know what I mean? And while I, you know, just personally, dog, like, I ain't experienced it like that. But I did feel, and I've shared this with Logan before. people tried to create a narrative about me too.

Like the NBA did their best to create a narrative. They would suspend me. They told me one time, no bullshit. They had to suspend me because they couldn't be sure that I didn't try to do something to somebody. The motherfucker told them I didn't do it. I told them I didn't do it. And David Stern and Pontnis came in and said

they had to suspend me because they couldn't be sure. So I can appreciate where you're coming from. I didn't experience it on that level. But that shit fucking sucks. Straight up. Oh, big time. How do you feel when you're doing, like when you have that stigma, right? Specifically, weeding and the jailblazers.

But you guys were really good, right? And I say this as like, I was a Laker fan, so I was on the other side of it. And you guys were like always the biggest, the adversaries for the Lakers run, at least in the early part of the time. But like, what was that like just having that, again, perception versus reality? You guys are a really good basketball team that are trying to build something. But then you guys got this shit on your head. How did you feel in the moment with that? Well, we knew we knew we could play.

we knew we could play like you said we were i think at the time before they put that sacramental team together at the time we were the lakers greatest adversary um but of course shit when you got that big fella in the middle ain't too much shit you could do um you know we it was it was cool like we always stuck together um we always did a lot of things together not only smoke sessions there was always a family atmosphere you know we did the whole hanging out we did the whole barbecues and we I think that's one of the things that always made us such a great team and so close-knit because, you know, most people at the time, they wouldn't go out as a team. But when I got to the Blazers, you know, and I had the veterans, and Roger, you were speaking about the veterans before they're so key in the game.

When I had the veteran, you know, we went, we was, it was like a family, a brotherhood. We all go out, at least four or five guys would go out no matter if it was a restaurant, nightclub, strip club, or the mall, wherever. you had guys going out in groups and that's what made it so close because now I can break down and you can break down me as far as okay like the type of person he is okay so that explains why he plays like this so now and then you further talking like yo like if i play with roja i'm like yo look how you like to how you like for me to set your screen you wanted to be flat you wanted to be on an angle or you wanted to be a full um where my hips is facing the sideline you know i ask all types of questions like that. And that's what makes the team close-knit. And that's how we

was out there in Portland. But you had the media that was given off the perception of us. Like, you know, we were some straight out motherfucking thug. But no, we, a lot of us was married. A lot of us was family men. And that portrayal because a lot of, we're a small town at the time. Portland, they didn't have soccer. Now they got a soccer team, you know, a minor league hockey team and all that stuff. But when we played, they didn't have none of that. It was all eyes on you. It was all eyes on me. Like pop, you have people in the media who want to get to the big cities,

to the L.A., to the Chicago, the Dallas, the New York. So what's the best way for me to get there? What's the best way for a lot of people to see my story? If I write some bullshit, if I'm sitting up here saying some bullshit, then they're going to see my story. Then that way I can get to another big town. So my whole time out in Portland, there was only one dude who really printed what we wrote

and didn't write no negative shit about it. If we went out there and played bad that night and sucked, that's what he wrote about. Oh, the Blazers sucked. They couldn't complete a layup, this and that. We go out there and we play good, no matter if it was against bum dudes or a great playoff team or championship team, oh, they played well tonight.

We fell a little bit short, missed a shot too here or there. But the other reporters, oh, even on a win, even on a good team win, oh, it was lucked up tonight. Yeah, they'd up and hit a few shots and this and that. So it was that whole negativity that that brought that on. And once they tagged us as the jailblazers,

then the nation just took that up. And like, I'm like, yo, everybody's saying that, you know, we was this, we was that, but ain't nobody ever go to jail. Ain't nobody ever get in trouble with police around town. You know, it was normal shit. Right. A speeding ticket.

A speeding ticket or back then, you know, Roger, you probably can know that is a noise ordinance ticket because our music was too loud. That was pretty much the only thing that they was fucking with us with as far as the cops around town. Wasn't nobody getting locked up.

Wasn't nobody spending nice in jail. No probation type shit as far as doing something in Portland. But once they labeled us some jailblazers, it's like, all right, so we still had to go out there and play. No matter what. The media said this and that about us.

We got to go out there and play. That's our job, fella, and that's what we did. What did you think? What did you saw the Shepal show? All right, so check it. So at the time I was married, right? So, you know, this Chappelle was high. This one, he had everybody

running home like, no, I'm going to get with you a little bit later because I got to go check the Chappelle show out. Yes. So, boom, we at home, we're in a bed, watching the joint, so, you know, they're doing their skit. And I think it was something like the skit when keeping the real goals wrong or

No, it was like basically like the skit was when you, like, you know, like when you say, when you shoot a shot, you say Kobe. It was basically like using the player's name in your everyday life. And so they were stuck in here. So they was like, you know, they had your man walking down the street, the cop walking down the street, swinging the baton, do do do do. And he see the car full of smoke. And he tapped on the glass and all that smoke came out. So I'm sitting there laying a bed next to my wife. So I'm blowed already now.

I'm sitting in next to my wife, right? And dude rode the window down and Charlie Murphy was like Rashi Wallace Hey, on everything for the, I didn't even see the rest of that show.

My stomach, my face was hurting so much from laughing and my wife ain't think at the time she didn't think that shit was funny. That's not funny. That's embarrassing. I'm like, man, you're crazy. I'm like, you know what, baby, you're right.

It's not funny. That shit's just fucking. hilarious. I was crying. Like, I couldn't stop laughing. I couldn't wait to get to practice the next day. Be like, yo, please tell me y'all saw the Chappelle show. And it's, oh, man, that shit was funny to me, though. But, I mean, but that also lets you know, like, man, hey, shit, we ain't doing nothing different than what the rest of society doing, man. So obviously media did what they did and people were trying to achieve certain shit, right? but within building, not just the players, like, you know, because I spent a year with the Cavs in their front office.

So I got to see how they moved behind the scenes. What were they doing? Like, what was their attitude towards, you know, the, the slander, so to speak? Like, how did they approach that? Did they talk to y'all about it? Like, hey, fellas, we're aware of what they're trying to do. Like, you know, we don't support that. Where was ownership on that shit?

Like, or were they just leaving y'all out to be painted the way you were painted? As far as with my Portland days? Yeah, when you were in Portland and the now, was kind of trying to be driven. Like, we're, you know, because like behind the scenes, I would think with the calves, we'd be like, hey, guys, listen, man, this shit is not fair to the team. They're trying to drive a wedge and they're trying to paint them like this. What can we do as a staff to try to counter that and change the narrative?

So I'm wondering if they even did that or if they just left y'all out in the cold like that. No, no, they did that. They had our back because, again, we were winning games. No matter what the media said, we were winning games. And that's the main thing that front office needs. lead. Of course, that's on the PR to clean all that other shit up. You know what I'm saying? The way management was, like, look, that's what we hired y'all for. Whatever happened, y'all clean that shit up. Bottom line is we winning games.

You know, we up there in the Western Conference finals or, you know, semifinals and all of that. So they, management and ownership at the time, Paul Allen, Bob Wittsitts, they heard our back. They heard our back. And of course, you know, they set individuals down like, all right, you know, we hearing through word on the street, you know, this and that, hey, downtown a little bit too rowdy or, you know, just a little bit too much weed smoke or this or that, you know, they definitely gave us shots like that. But, I mean, we were winning games. Shit, I mean, that was the bottom line of the organization, right, is to win games.

So I can't sit up here and say that they didn't care because they did because, you know, Paul Allen at the time to me was running a good organization. He was one of the few owners that actually was in touch with his guy. We talk about Portland and like, again, I grew up a Lager fan, so I've seen the other side of this, but I do want to get your opinion on like that 2000 season. What was that like? Because you guys are up, you guys are playing this buzzsaw, and then it just kind of, the tide kind of turned. Like we always, we see this in modern times, but like what is it like during those type of postseason series

where you do got a, like a legendary team on the. ropes and it just doesn't work out for you in that way. What was that like in the moment? And me and Rajah always talk about making sure you take advantage of the moment when you have it and you don't really know what's the future holds. In the moment in that 2000 series

against the Lakers, was the mindset, oh shit, we're a good enough team. We're going to be back next year. I know you guys played them the next year, but it wasn't the same. What was the mindset after that series? FAA! To be honest. I was looking at my damn phone.

He scared the shit out of me, man. I was looking here and trying to look something up. That was my mindset, to be honest, man. We, you know, we had him on the ropes. But as I sit back and look at like when I was playing, then I felt like, you know, of course we were the underdog and here it is. We got a great heavyweight boxing champion. We got him on a rote.

He's just, he's ready to fall. And they was ready to fall. but then the guy wants to call the timeout so he can act like he's the coach of the year and like he's really doing something and that was our downfall. I would say the timeout

and the basketball guys because we missed after that the Lakers came that's when B. Shaw hit the bank three that started it. Then they went on a nice little run and it was capped by the dunk with the alleyute

that Kobe threw the shack. You know, that's when it was like, Oh, shit, like, damn. So it was like, we let it slip through our hands, yo. We let it slip through our hands. We had them on the road. We had them where we won it.

And what made me look at it as the basketball gods, it was the first start of their dynasty. You know, with Lakers winning those, in Kobe's era, winning those, I think, what, five chips? It was the start of that dynasty. You know, who knows how it would have been if we would have won. Me personally,

oh, for sure, we would have beat the shit out of Indiana. Right. I agree. Hey, as great as Jay Rose was, that's my guy. That's thick and sin.

That's my brother right there. And Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, all of them cats. Reggie Miller, that's my big brother right there too, but no, we would have had them right there.

You guys were stacked. You were stacked. You were stacked, bro. But that's, yeah. So listen, let me ask you,

like, you wind up winning championships in, in Detroit with a hellify squad, different for sure, but a hellify squad. Which one of those teams, like, would you say was the better, more talented team? It's a weird question, but like, you could be on a team that wins a championship and say, yeah, but that goddamn Blazers team was loaded. Like, which one do you think was a better team?

Talent-wise, talent-wise. It was the Blazor team. Talent-wise, it was the Blazor team. You know, we had a young kid, that's when Cass is in a prime, athletic. and shit. You know, myself, we had a young Jermaine O'Neill. We had a young Bonzie Well. We had a young JR writer. Even though he was a veteran at that time, we had Pitt, we had Steve Smith, going through the joint. We had a young Walt Williams. You know, we had some good teams and good teammates out there in Portland. And I would have to say Portland because we were younger and,

you know, we were more athletic in our prime. In Detroit, it was more savvy. You know, know, it was more veterans. You know, we already had the shit locked in on, you know, all the guys we had to go against in the league and this and that. So it was a, man, that was some magic shit that happened in Detroit. That was, that was something different. What was the difference, though, in those teams? Because, I mean, the common denominator is obviously L.A., but, like, you had a different Kobe and a different shack in both series, right? What was the difference between, Raja talked about Garden Shack and Kobe obviously comes up?

What was the difference in guarding them in 2000 when Shaq is like this near unanimous MVP versus like when it seemed like they were fractured in 0304? What was it like playing against those two different types of squads? Man, that Laker team in the beginning, I think, I actually think we could have got them if the coach would have listened to it. And if you were to start it, Dale Davis, who wasn't scared to, stick his chin in there and take them elbows and take them shoulders from Shaq. But he had the heart and the strength to play him one-on-one straight up where we didn't have to

help. Then we was like, if you start Dale and bring some bonus in when Shaq comes out of the game, at that time, even in his old age, I lot of y'all not. A bucket. I still say there was no center in the league, no second string center or a majority of first-string centers outside of Shaq that couldn't fuck with Sabona. A dog, even in his old age,

he wasn't athletic, but his savaginess was, he's crassiest shit. Yeah, he hit you up. Going, like, now with him being older, of course, he's going against a young grandma bull. So damn, we got to help. You know what I'm saying? We got to come double and triple team, you know,

and come up with defensive schemes for Shaq. But if he would have started Dell, I think the outcome could have been different. So now you fast forward to Detroit, we're dealing with a young Ben Wallace. Like, strength is in his blood.

Like, the dude ain't even got to lift weights or nothing, and he just just come out of, because it's in his blood. His brothers is like that. You know, nephews is like that. It's in their blood, man. They're some strong dudes. So he has that pride. And, Roger, you know about, as soon or later,

with our era, that pride going step up, man. Yeah, it's going to make you either sink or swim. So he stepped up to that challenge He's like, no, and it made it easier on us When he was like, I got Shaq, don't y'all leave You know, so-and-so and this and that And I believed him

You know, I've seen the brother lift weights Every damn day in the weight room He's naturally strong If he don't lift weight from today And for the next 10 years, guess what? You look at it and you're going to be like, Damn, you're in a weight room every day, dog? It's just natural for him.

And he took that pride. I got Shaq. That's what he said in the meetings. You know, we're having a team meeting and everything. Once we got to the finals, I got Shaq. Y'all stay home. Shit, that makes my job easier. Right.

You know what I'm saying? And that was the key difference, you know. In Portland, we were more talented. But in Detroit, we were more veteran. We were more crafty. What did you know we y'all got their ass? He was like, we got their ass. It's over.

We got them. It's over. Because it was five games. pretty much a sweep. Game one. Game one. They thought we were going to come in there and because of course, you know, most of that Laker team outside

of Malone, GP, and probably like one or two other dudes, most of that Laker team was already in the championships before. So, you know, I guess they were thinking like we would have stage fright. Like, oh shit, now and now it's the final game. Yeah, it ain't

never been here before. No, we in there. That first game, we shocked a world. I know we fuck Vegas up. We fuck every gambling house up in the country, except in Detroit. Except in Michigan. I know it was,

dog, because nobody had us, first of all, nobody had us winning game one, let alone a series. You know, you look at all the vetting lines. They had,

oh, Lakers plus 12 and a half. And, you know, all the commentators, oh, well, you don't know, this and that,

the piss thing, they're too small. All right. That first game fucked everybody up, man, and I loved it. I loved it so much. And that's when we knew we had them,

dog. And Kobe, as great as he is, you know, rest in peace, crazy eight, he had a great shot. He had a great shot for that game,

too, for descending into overtime, and, you know, they ended up getting a win. And, um, but yeah, I feel you, Roger,

we call that shit a sweep too, for the most part from, just from the whole way that we played that whole series. And then, because we knew. So we lost game two. Like, all right, you know, we still feel good because we did our job. We got one.

Roger, you know, when you go to that visiting team and a playoffs, all we got to do is get one. That's right. And that would change the tie to that series. So we's like, we got our one now. So I lie to y'all not on everything. I put it on my dead brother. We on a plane. So I sat across from a car table.

And so it was, it was. Ben, Chauncey, Rick, Tashon was sitting right there. They were playing cards. And it was me and Lindsay Hunter. We're sitting on a couch across on a car table. And, you know, everybody, we're in a good move. We're not mad. We lost.

We're not sad. We're in a good mood. And I swear to goodness, man, somehow, some way, at one time, we all said together, for the most part, you know we can't go back to L.A., right? And then we all started laughing and chuckling like, yeah. because we know what's going to happen. And so, when we came out game three at the palace,

who, I think that felt like my, my rookie season. I was so excited. Oh, man. We's like, no, we're not letting this shit

get back to L.A. no matter what, we don't give a fuck about them getting the referees, getting the emails from the top bosses and to say this and that because it was David Stern.

He was promoting that team so heavy because you had great players on there. I mean, he was doing his job. I can't be mad. Sure. You know, you had Gary Payton, one of the greatest defensive guards to ever play in our league. You had Carl Malone, who was one of the greatest scoring power forward.

And if not, arguably, the best power forward that played in the league. Of course, you know, Kobe, Shack, so they had their whole Hall of Fame team. Rob Borey, all of them cats, you know, all them dudes is out there. A famed team. And that's what David Stern was promoting it at. my team of Hoffs. Wow. We got something for y'all.

Random motherfuckers out to gym. And real talk, so many years the Lakers put me out the playoffs when I was in Portland and we had good teams. Who couldn't we get by in a playoff to Lakers? Yeah, we could beat them in the regular season, but when it came money time and they went the big fella, like, man, there's nothing we could do about it.

So that felt like, I don't know. like I guess it feels that weight that was on my back with that man and beating them the way we did in that fashion. So, so let me, man, you just triggered, I'm going to ask you another question. I do want to just say what I was going to say before, which was if you haven't been to a basketball game, I mean, I don't know what it's like now, but damn, playing in Detroit back when these jokers were on the court, that was a tough fucking building to play. And boy, that shit was crazy, man.

That was one of my least favorite places to be, bro. I swear to God. It's all the way out the way and shit. Bro, you stay out in Birmingham. Like, you was out in Birmingham, like, chilling as cold as shit. You're driving out to the palace, and they get it in. It's crazy out there. And to boot, like, you touched on the sheet.

The physicality of that fucking team was she, body, Taishon, like, fucking rip, chasing his ass over these dudes, like over 30 screens the whole game. It was just a beat down on you physically. But this is my. my question, Shee, because you touched on, like, you felt vindicated. And it flashed me back because your story is kind of very similar to your coaches in regards to, like, you know, Larry Brown had been to the finals against the Lakers and one game one in LA, lost game two.

And we fumbled a bag, you know, coming home and the Lakers ran away with it. What do you remember about LB in that run? Like, you know, how integral was he into the, like, architect of the defense? Was he more, was that more on y'all? You talk to me about LB. No, he's like a mad scientist, man. That's what he is to me. I loved his nature.

I loved his nature when it came down to crunch time, because I'm going to change shit up. So it was like, okay, so what I was playing the Lakers? So let's say one of our favorite plays is called Two Chess. Oh, I know Two Chess. Oh, I know that. Oh, Rep starts at the top. He's coming off of either one or two.

Now he's in floppy. key. I'm on one elbow. Ben is on the other elbow and Tayshan is under the basket. So whichever side Tatea RIP goes to, we sat in the screen and Tashon goes opposite. So, you know, we was like, that was one of our bread and butter players, Rip coming off with a mid-range. Boom. So he's like, all right, so two chests, that's going to be for Tay Sean. Because they're going to be so focused on a RIT that once TAY comes off the bottom on that back side, Chauncey, fake that ball coming off a rip because everybody's paying attention because we sat a screen hit Tay Sean, switch it up.

You know, any play that was like, you know, it could have been a play for me a post-up play. All right, we're going to call it Turn 4. So everybody knew Turn 4 was to Sheed, but the play wasn't for me. You know, I'm doing everything. that I need to sell the play, to sell a ticket to the show, setting the screen,

going to crawl, oh, no, give me the ball. But it was for RIP coming out top, elbow, boom. I mean, top of the key, boom. So Larry Brown, during the season, all right, yeah, we're running those plays.

So it's like now, you know we're running it, but you got to stop it. But during the playoff, you still got to stop it, but we just go and put a little, put a little sprinkle on it. So when we say it's one play

and y'all know during the regular season was focused on this player, but now it's going to be for somebody else. And then the other thing I like about LB, he paid homage and show respect to Ben. If y'all go back and look at a majority of our games when we played, when we made it to those finals with LB,

every game we started at least the first two plays off for Ben. Like, yo, you're going to start us all, go get your bucket. You know what I'm saying? Because, you know, all right, Ben wasn't a high score in the NBA. We all know that. You know, his velocity was on defense with rebounding, with just straight up guarding, you know what I'm saying,

and block shot. You know, yeah, he could dunk that bitch in your face. He'll hit a jumper every now and then. But, yeah, motherfuckers left him wide open and this and that. So that was our whole key. Like, come on. It was starting on you, big fella. We start with you.

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$5 pregame money line wager required. First online real money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. See terms and sportsbook.bendul.com. One of the things that I've seen in the NBA when I see the modern NBA big, I see a lot of you in them, right? I even think about a yokech who can shoot, pass, can do all of these things.

how, it's a two-fold question. How were you able to, what was the reasoning for you be able to get your game in the time that you were getting it when usually it was, yo, if you were big, get your ass in the paint and just post up, right? And how did you get to a point

where you would just have your game to be multifaceted? And what is it like to see this generation where that's kind of what you need to have to be a great big. You talk about Carl Anthony Towns, you talk about Yokit, you talk about a lot of these guys now.

How did you get from where, how did you get your, game and curate your game in the area that you were in? And what is it like to see the now modern big kind of take after you? Well, first of all, I didn't start it. A lot of people like to say that it was me that started it and or me or dirt, you know, as far as like the power force, shooting all the threes and that. But it wasn't me.

It was Unc actually. Uncle Clissy. He was the one, him and, and to me, Derek Coleman, was the ones who started the threes. Now, you got to think of it back then during our era, to shoot a lot of threes, it wasn't it. So, you know, for them, with them being shooting bigs, you know, it wouldn't look out of the ordinary for them to take four or five threes a game. You know what I'm saying? Because they had other facets of a game that they could do, put it on the floor. You know what I'm saying?

Mid-range, John Schild post up, this and that. So the reason I started shooting threes was because one year I had to play the three. and out in Portland. So Dunleet has started Sabonis at the 5, Brian Grant at the 4, because he was a rebounded machine. Yeah. And started me at the 3. So, you know,

with me, I'm more of an end of the quarter, end of the quarter three point shooter. You know what I'm saying? But then he was like, because I wasn't taking no threes, you know, I was trying to shoot mid-range or get myself in there for the post or whatever. He was like, well, no. He was like, we're going to need you to, you know, shoot

a couple threes and stuff, just to widen the floor out that'll make it better for subonis and miss and that. I'm like, all right. So, you know, I started shooting in threes, but, you know, I regretted it every time we did play my nemesis, the Lakers, because who did I have to guard at the three?

Fucking Glenn Rice. Hey, I never in my career, he against everybody I played against, if you look at the career average against me, Glenn Rice has the most. He was averaging like about, damn there, 30 a game.

because, I'm, and Roger, you know, like running off of the screens and, you know, you're running deep to the corner and then you got to chase the man back. Hey, yo, hey, man, I'm a four or five. I ain't for all that running around these screens and all that shit. I'm running through them, Jones, getting fouls and all that. I'm like, yo, it was a tough season. But that's why I started shooting the threes at. So a lot of the younger generation, you know, they see that.

But I would say the difference now, that wasn't a fall in love shot back then. You know, when I was shooting a majority of them joined, shit, I'm already a veteran. I'm already at least in my 12th year, 11th, 12th year or so, no, my bounce ain't the same and all that. So I got to come with some equalizing. So yeah, I did shoot a little bit more than what I wanted to. But when you look at it now, now it's just automatic. You know, you got guys coming down, just pulling 40 feet from. the back just pulling taking nonsensable shots like they're not valuing that possession they're

not valuing the ball and the way that most of these bigs now shoot it it definitely you know adds to their game because okay now it stretches the floor and we can have our guards you know penetrating to the basket or cutting into the basket so for some but when you got a lot of these cats out here that shooting these motherfucking threes that shouldn't be shooting them you got you know like see ickham up in Toronto and you know you got a couple of other cats who shouldn't be shooting these threes yo back then when we played it's facts and I feel I they call me washed because I'm 47 my my co-host here she so but but let me ask you guys somebody that's in the wheelhouse basically about today's game right like the skill level is incredible um across the board right but

to your point, like what, you know, what people do with that skill level at sometimes can, for a player of our generation, you could look at it and be like, damn, doll, you just wasted the whole skill level by just by just coming down. Like, how do you feel about today's game the way it's being played and generally the league, the league as a viewer now as a fan? It's entertainment. It's all for entertainment. You know, you got guys coming down.

no pass putting up a 40-foot shot. You guys coming down and dribbled a life out the ball and then give it to you for a 9-1-1 for you to put up a shot. And it's like to me it's no continuity. Like, I guarantee you, if you ask some of these cats out here, like, yo, let's run this Hawk Cup. Let's run this Princeton play.

They're going to be like, what is that? Right. Like, they don't run them plays on live. That's what it looks like to me nowadays with more than a handful of these teams in the league. It just looks like I'm watching a video game. Because they're just coming down. Jacking, you know, like, y'all, I'm, oh, man, I'm pretty sure both of you all

you are playing basketball games or football games with your sons or nephews or something like that, right? And, you know, you might just like, all, yeah, you let them play, you let them win or whatever. But all he want to do is come down and do what? Jack up three. Jack up three. Jack up three.

And you're like, the dude was wide open under the basket for the dunk. No, I got it. And they, so you like, so that's, that's what it has come to now. The three-point shot is more of the favorable shot, opposing to a higher percentage shot, which is a layup or a dunk. So the game has definitely changed. It's more, to me, it's more for entertainment because they want to see the entertaining things, the donks and the threes.

That's why they took away a lot of the defense. We can't give a man a forearm shiver no more coming across that line. You know what I'm saying? Hey, and Katz always asked me, she, who you think when between y'all in Golden State or y'all in Denver? And I said, well,

I said, the truth be told. I said, you want the truth or you want to lie. I said, the truth is we kick ass either way. Because think about it. We could play in today's rules because we have skill set. Like, you had guys, Chauncey could do more than just shoot

to three. trancy was a good point guard good facilitator he's seen the mismatchez he read the play before other cats see it they can't do that today like just think about it the only way if rocha if you're playing a day and you're killing the only way they're going to keep giving you the ball is if the coach stays up

that that point guard is not going to see like damn russia got so-and-so on him and not he can't guard him hey turn two twist or you know whatever the play may be for you like we're going to kill him like that but they don't do that now. They don't see a lot of the mismatchers.

They can't make those reeds. Now, you have guys who are just as athletic as we were, but it's only one facet of the game. They only concentrate on that one skill set. Either you're a dribbler, either I can shoot, either I can dunk, either I can block shots, or I can rebound. You never have that one complete player.

Like, how many? guys in the league a handful. That's minus the veterans. That's minus the KDs. That's minus the West Brooks and LeBron. Go with more to, you know, the younger generations who, let's even say seven, eight, nine, ten years in the league. They, it's a difference in the ball game, man.

They don't run plays or they run high picking role plays to try to get open. It's five wide. Ain't nobody down low. Like, shit. And now I guarantee you, the big man, we're about to come back, baby. What is back. Now, everything ain't going to want a big man. Hey, yo, that's post up right there.

What did Aaron Gordon do? I've never seen Aaron Goran post up so much in his career than he did in the finals. Like, man, hey, man, get this little motherfuck off me. Hey, yo, give me up a lot. Oh, shit. Yeah. I got it. Okay, so I'm from the Bay, Rashid.

And I was listening, and I was listening to 40, E-40 the other day and the Hall of Hall of Game record and the first record on that thing is I forget the song but it's the first

what's it called record hater yes record hater get that in post it is the first song that I've ever heard a rapper go at an NBA player

it's honestly revolutionary I know 40 spoke on it but it's hilarious and how did you what was your reaction when you heard that it was different when you are you aware of this story

Roger? No. Okay, so E-40 dissed Rashid Wiles to start one of his, the best albums of his career. He just talked, he just eviscerated Rashid. And it's in a record called record haters. Exactly. What was your reaction? And did you guys ever, like, piece up and have a resolution?

Clearly, like, you're cool with it. But, like, how did that, what was that like? That was like 95, 96, 97. What was your reaction to that? 95. How did it start? Yeah, what's the genesis of that? All right, so this how I came out, you know,

me being in my younger days, yeah, I'm heavy East Coast, and I was listening to nothing but East Coast rap for the most part, no down south. You know, you East Coast just be hating on us. Y'all be hating on us. No, it wasn't matter. I did listen to West Coast music, but I was heavy East Coast in my rotation.

So, you know, I did listen to Short. You know, I fucked with Short from day one. I fuck with NWA. I fuck with Ice Tea. I'm cute. You know what I'm saying? So when I'm on rap city with Big Tigger, you know, and reason being, because I'm playing in Washington at the time.

And then, you know, I'm the highest rookie and this and that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But so I'm on there. So TIG asked me, he's like, yeah, man, he's like, you know, what's in your CD changes? For most of y'all who don't know, we had 20K CD changers in our cars back there. In the back, in the back, in the truck. Yeah, in the back. And in the back. So he was like, you know, which thing is your rotation right now. CDs you're listening to.

So, you know, I named a lot of East Coast artists and stuff. And I was like, yeah, you know, I don't listen to the E40s and a good E-Mod's and this and that. So with that, and I found this out through my man, J.R. writer who run a Yeh. And he know 40. And he was like, yeah, man, because he bought it up too. He was like, yeah, man, 40 thought that was so disrespectful and this and that. And I was like, I said, you know what? I said, he is right.

I said, in my younger days, I said, that could have been taken as a disrespectful way, you know what I'm saying, because I could have just said who I listened to without having to mention other rap artists. So when he came out with the song, right, you know, funny as shit, though, it was funny and shit, though, right? What's that man's name, Rashid Wallace?

The way it comes off, it come off, you know, he comes with the whole East Coast slang like, yo, B, what's up? Oh, then this and that, like, God. So, and then, you know, you hear the music playing, and then the 40 feds where he was like, what's that knicker's name? Like, yo, I cried. You hear me, I cried.

I was like, all right. And then, you know, but see, of course, I ain't a rapper, so I ain't never try to come back or come ask somebody to ghost write for a disc track or no shit like that. Like, God, that's that man. You know what I'm saying? That's his lane. So fast forward.

I'm in Portland in 97, 98, and I'm on a radio. That's when I had a radio show out there on jamming 955. And we did the first actual like summer jam of radio show in Portland. So who was one of the guests? 40. So who is one of the main host? Short, right? So, you know, I'm out there, you know, doing the,

hey, next up, this and that. I'm going to, yeah, thank you all. You know, I'm hosting because it's our shit. So, you know, we short come out. He's singing his songs. Life is too short. Boom, boom, being. And so, you know, the crowd jamming and everything.

And then, you know, 40 come up, the crowd jamming. So then short, before 40 gets there, short, be like, yeah, man, I just want to do one thing real quick, man. And then, man, get my nigga 40 border out here, man. And so 40 came out. And then he was like, yeah. man, let me get that Nick to shoot you Wallace out here, man. Where are you at, man?

So I came out and then he was like, man, we need to squash this shit, man. This rap thing. It's about rap, man. They want to see his beef and this and that. We need to squash it and what's in that. So I was like, you know, I told him short backstage, I never had a beef with the brother. You know what I'm saying? I just didn't listen to his music.

But, you know, like I said, I can see where that was coming from a disrespectful way, especially after my man Jay Ryder told him. So you're like, all right, so short boarded together, you know, we shook on it, boom, bang. Fast forward some more. They're playing dollars. I'm in the bay before they moved over to Frisco. And I'm doing some shit with ESPN and all this other thing at the final. So I'm like, all right, I got to go to the bathroom.

So as I'm going to the bathroom, as I'm walking in, who coming out? 40 water. I'm like, ah, ha, ha. I'm like, what's good, good, bro. you know, it's cool that. No, it's all good love right now with us, you know. But that was just me, you know, when I was in my younger days, I was ignorant, you know, just ignorant to the fact that man was getting money over

on the West Coast just because his music wasn't being played on the East Coast don't mean that he wasn't getting money. But that was just me being ignorant younger back then, though. But that track was funniest shit, though, Rod. I'm going to go listen to that. I'm going to listen to that right now. We got a lot of pride in the base, Steve. We just like Phillyo.

Like we got a lot of pride, bro. We like that. Let me just, can I, let me just say this real quick, though, because y'all just brought him up and it kind of ties into the bay.

J.R. writer, okay? I spent a training camp with this brother. I was fresh out. It was with the Atlanta Hawks. He had just got traded there with Jimmy Jackson.

That's my guy. Yeah. And JJ and, and Isaiah, bro, one of my favorite teammates. J.R. is one of my favorite teammates of all time.

I played with this man for a preseason, bro. he is like real talk like that's the impression he made on me man some of the shit that i saw rashy i was like yo this this dude is really like he is really he is real yeah and all and everything that means the dog he is real jr r r ral and it's crazy right i just talked to him the other day oh that's what i ran into that brother at a a u we were up at uh in orlando i guess his son plays on a phoenix he's in phoenix right yeah he's tough his son's tough his son's tough my son and them were playing and his sons he could go crazy small world how we all intertwined right now with each other through our kids man no doubt before uh we get to ruin it and we can get

you out of here or she i got a question about air force ones and you playing i know you get this question all the time but did you have any idea would have the cultural impact because i know that you you got it you you wore the air force ones but basically based off necessity because you're ankles um did you kind of know that like because you kind of were a throwback player in that way, like, where you were a guy that looked like the OG at the park at all times, but did you have any idea of the cultural significance you would have

with that shoe and just playing with it? Or was it just, oh, I'm just full necessity. I need to protect my ankles. A little bit of both. A little bit. I definitely needed to protect my ankles, because to me, as a big man, you got to protect three things. You got to protect your ankles slash feet. You got to protect your knees and you got to protect your back. You know,

everything from waist on up, like you can recover from that. But anything weighs down, like shit, that shit makes it harder. So playing in them, I definitely had to protect my ankles and either had ankle braces on or I taped. But for me, I didn't know that it was going to be the culture wave like it is now in different places. Because for me, like, all right, we all wore ones in the hood when I was growing up. But, you know, like I said, I only started wearing them for real, for real, because it was the only true high-topped shoe that protected my ankle. And so I didn't play them join straight out the box.

I had orthotics in there to let everybody know, all right? So orthotics, you know what I'm saying? That's the insult that's molded to your foot to make it just as comfortable as Dr. Shoals and shit. So you cannot, you know, them, dumb, dumb, insoles in a one. they like, you might well be playing in some converse. Yeah. This is the same same.

You know what I mean? And it ain't no real cushion in them, John. But it helps protect. Yo, Nike account must have been lit though, right? Because like, like, they're just sending you random pairs of forces or were you just, like, getting them, like, the forces that came out general release? Like, how did they, like, what was the thing that? Because no other Nike athlete is getting shipments of forces to hoop in. Like, what was that relationship like?

It was cool, man. It was cool. because I had my guy back then was Torres and my rep with Nico who happened to be the GM the Mavericks right now. So, I mean, they was cool with it, man. They gave me different flavors. They kept them live and popping.

So it was like once I added my logo onto an existing shoe, that just made it, you know what I'm saying? Better threw it over the hill. And I guess it gave Nike a little bit more street crab a little bit more hoodwrepped to know that my old ass has been hooping into my whole career. How many do you have? Left? Like, are they in storage or something?

Like, do you have, like, boxes and shit, or do you just give them away? No. Okay. I give a lot of them shits away. Like, right now, I used to keep all them shit in storage. I had the little each individual box and all that shit. But, no, that shit gets too expensive. So I was like, man, you know what?

Let me get these shits away, dog. You know who does that? that damn rip. I worked with Rip for a few years in CB. That damn rip has storage lockers full of James. But I hit him up today. I'm like, yo, Rip, you got a slime. A, bro.

I need a 15 in X, Y, and Z, bro. He got it. He got it. He got it. He got it. He's going to hit you with a. Let me check. Let me check.

I know you was vindicated when that St. Lunatic's Air Force Ones came out. I know that was the joint for you because that was like all of your whole life. when the Nelly joint came out. I already know you was going crazy. So growing up, you know, all we had was my, uh, dude, standing north of two, six, three.

You know, that was the only rap song about me. So forever, everybody was saying that. But then when they came out with this stumping in my Air Force, so I was like, hey! Hey! I was like, okay, Nellie,

hit that shit right there. And then, you know, they were talking about the difficult. I got the red ones. with the red stripes and all of those. Okay. Like, yeah, we finally got somebody to talk about them ones. They're a little classic everywhere, though.

Philly, this is Philly-Centery. Best cheese steak in the city. For you, for you. The three spots I go to. I go to Maxis. I go to Pagano's. And my young fella who went to my old high school, he had just opened up a cheese steak spot.

in South Philly, my man Marv. I forgot the name of it. But it's a young John right there. I'm the only three spots I go to in Philly for a Chief State. For authentic, authentic. Got you. This was a treat. This is one of the best episodes.

I'm standing on in the real ones that we had of all time, one of the best interviews. But let's get to Real One of the Week, which is a segment that we do on Thursdays, where we point out a person, entity, an organization at one in a week. I'll go first, probably take one of Rajas. and then Roger will go and then Sheed will go.

I have two this week. I have one. No, my fucker, you go first. You can't take two because then you're doubling. Then, motherfucker, you go then. How do you go? I'm going to take two. All right, you go.

I'm going to have two. You go first in. You go first. You go first. You go first. I go second. Allow me then. Allow me.

Let's go. My real one in a week, this brother was traded. He's going on two weeks in a row now. He was trying to, traded by the Cardinals to make room for Kyle Murray coming back. He went to Minnesota, barely had any time to get into that playbook, figure out what was going on. I mean, he's brilliant anyway, and he showed it coming out with two wins in a row

and just playing great for the Vikings and Kirk Cousins stead. Joshua Dobbs, young brother, just doing his thing. He's 2-0, just figuring out ways to win. I heard that they were in his headset at the line of scrimmage coming out of the huddle with 20 seconds and verbally just taking him through what he was supposed to be looking at on the play. having a Sunday play's quarterback, that's a wild shit. Like to be unprepared like that and have the mental aptitude to pick that up seconds before the play snaps, that's crazy. And for another reason, though, I have a young son.

My young boy, Zen has alopecia. And Josh is a great role model for Zen. And I just respect everything that he's doing in all of those fastest. So real one of the week. That's what I said. That's a good real one. That was not my real one, right? Okay.

Well, shit. All right, so I got two. One is Tony, Tony, Tony. One today's show. They had a show in Oakland over the, over the week in Oakland at the Paramount Theater with Raphael Sadie. You see me rapping right now. One of the best shows I've ever been to in my life. I don't know if they're ever going to be in your city with again.

But if they were in your shitty, all three of them go, it's a whole thing. They had Elaine Brown doing eulogies for the Black Panther to start this motherfucker off. It was some Oakland shit. It was great. It was great. It was, and they took your cell phones off. Like, so you was really in the moment with it, like, like, like, A La Chappelle, they took your phones from me during the show.

So it was great. It was a great atmosphere. And you know, an Oakland crowd is an Oakland crowd. It's one of the best you can ever have. And so that's my first one, Tony, Tony, Tony. My second one is friend of the show, Rogers Fave, Megan Rapino, who tour Achilles to end her career. It's tough.

You know, we got love for you. come on anytime. You know what it is from the real one. So Megan Rapino on a great career and Tony, Tony, Tony for being Tony, Tony, because damn. I definitely want to try to check that show. I heard that he's doing a little,

that they're doing a little tour. I'm for sure going to check that out. Man, yeah, you're right. Highly recommended. So I guess my segment would be, first I got two too. My first is, I got to say, tip my hat to the young fellow, C.J. Stroud. Yo, he has been killing.

He has been defying all the eyes, defying all the naysairs who was talking shit. Number one, about a black quarterback. But number two, just about him, period, you know, a lot of naysayers, period. And I love the fact that I ain't got to say shit to y'all. I'm going to prove y'all wrong on the field. And man, week after week, one way or another, young fella has been finding a way to win. So I'm like, man, keep defying those odds,

keep doing what you're doing. So I tip my hat to you. And then my second, I'm going to have to say somebody I know personally and love as well, my dad. You know, my pop, he's a funny old head, you know, but he just actually was, he made it through open heart surgery. He had a patient. He got a pacemaker putting his heart.

So he's still here with us today. And, you know, I know that takes a lot of inner strength because we have some of our elders who just think that's the end of their life and wants to give up or whatever. But no, my dad kept fighting, kept telling his jokes and all that shit. So, like, man, that's my guy right there. That's my hero who I look up to right there, bro. Damn right. Shout out with Mr. Wallace. Real ones, man.

Rashid, come back anytime. This was a treat. We had a blast with you, bro. Yeah, whenever y'all read. Yes, sir. We're going to hold you to that. Thanks so much for coming on. That has been Thursday, Real Ones.

I am going to relish in the fact that my Raiders have won two in a row, and then we're about to get our ass kick the next two weeks, including to Sheed's Chiefs. I wouldn't say that too loud being a Raiders fan, though. I mean, it's been my whole life as a child, bro. It's tough. It's really tough. Y'all in Miami this week, right?

We got Miami at Miami. At KC. It's pretty tough. It's pretty tough. It's O and two. That's O and two, bro. Exactly. Talk to y'all soon. See y'all Monday for motherfucking buddies with Howard Beck. Talk to y'all soon. Bye.

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