The Ringer NBA Show - Reassessing the East and West Races, Plus a Live Show Announcement! | Group Chat

Episode Date: January 3, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos begin by announcing that 'Group Chat' will have a live show during All-Star Weekend in Indianapolis! Then they get into the show this week by answering a prompt to reassess each conference. Starting in the West, they are tasked with making sense of the conference without mentioning the Denver Nuggets' title run last season (6:36). In the East, they discuss whether the new-look Knicks have changed the outlook of the conference at all (48:34). Buy tickets for the live show in Indianapolis here! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, media consumers. I'm Brian Curtis. And I'm David Shoemaker. We're the host of The Ringers Press Box podcast. Twice a week, we have a free-flowing conversation. We're two old, old friends talk about media and sports and a little politics. Plus interviews with guests like John Crackauer and Jamel Hill, funny stuff like the overworked Twitter joke of the week. Join us every Monday and Friday on Spotify, wherever you get your podcast.

I think that's right. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am just very very. and joining me. As always, Rob Mahoney, Big Waz. Gentlemen, welcome to the New Year 2024. Waz, how are you doing? Feeling fantastic, man. New Year's is actually a year that, I mean, an occasion in which I always get into my

fields, like, you know, you're around friends and family, and it's just like, happy New Year, we did it again. And this year, one of my close homies actually lost his mom last week. Oh. And so I got to spend the time with him. somebody I've been friends with over 20 years. So I was like extra in my fields. It's like, wow, like the circle of life, the turning of the calendar.

It's like one of those things. And then I go to the bar, but I'm looking at the grays in my chin. It's just just feels all around, man. Just feels all around. You got deep on us for a second. Yeah, this got Dower quickly. No, I wouldn't say Dower. I would say profound.

That is a profound level of friendship and intimacy that Waz is talking about there. I support that. I support the hard. look in the mirror time and again, Justin. You know, I think we all have to do that from time to time. For frown friendship, that is what this podcast is about. But I think we do need to change the mood here because we have off the top a special announcement. And Rob, would you please hit the siren?

It's getting better as you go along. I like how you're perfecting it. Yeah. So we, as we have kind of been alluding to over the past couple of pods, are doing our first live show and we are doing it at All-Star weekend in Indianapolis. We're going to be doing it with our friend, Jay Kyle Mann. 2 p.m. on February 17th, that's All-Star Saturday. It is going to be at the high-fi in downtown Indianapolis. It's very close to the arena. So you can go and check us out, do a live recording, and then you can go and watch the festivities, dunk contests, etc. on Saturday night.

But we're very excited for it. Get your tickets at hi-fiindy.com. Rob, we made it to the big stage. It's about time, Justin. I'm ready to meet some group chat degenerates in the wild. I'm ready to be the opener that the Skills Challenge deserves. And really, that's what we are, is getting everyone psyched for the Skills Challenge.

Is Shooting Stars still a thing? Are we still doing Shooting Stars? I think so. Perfect. Love it. Can the three of us compete? in shooting stars. I honestly think we'd be pretty good at it. It's a good idea.

I would say, you know, some people might listen to this announcement and say, why would I go to indie? Why would I go to a live show when I get this for free? I would tell people live shows tend to be just a little spicier. And I pride myself in our pod on being at least a Serrano level, spice level. Pretty much every episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we get pretty spicy up here. But I think on a live venue, you know, in that format, we might even kick it up to Habanero. So, you know, just be ready for some more spice.

And of course you get to say what up to Justin Bavarrier's beautiful beard. Rob Mahoney's not as good, but better than mine. Damn. I'm a long. Mine is pretty patchy. You get to say how did the guys and gals in person. So, man, yeah, definitely come check us out. Well, Habanero level heat is pretty good for the Midwest, I think.

What I'm hearing from you, Waz, is that you're holding back on us on a weekly basis, that there's more heat you could be bringing and you're choosing not to. I mean, anybody who listens to this pod kind of knows that. There's a level of, you know, curation happening here to protect the innocence. So, yeah, I think in a live show format, we can have a little bit more fun. Listen, Waz is a live show legend. You've got a couple of these things. This is true.

Yeah, I've got a few of them underneath my belt, man. I'm pretty much a veteran at this at this point. And so, yeah, we had a great time in Salt Lake, I thought. Last year, that was dope. KOC, Logan, Syri, Kyle, Michael Pina. We had a great time. But I think, you know, obviously what we do here in a week to week, the chemistry, we've been able to build and build upon.

I think it's going to be a different situation and pretty special, man. And I love that we get to do with our unofficial fourth chair, Kyle Mann, who has subbed in for us many a time, has come in to coach us up on draft prospects. That'll be a blast to do with him. The Midwest's own. He will be able to speak the language. I don't think so. Is the Bluegrass State, the Midwest?

Is that the South? I think he's within driving region. Like, I think he could drive to the show technically. I think that puts them in proximity to the Midwest. I mean, you could drive there from Canada if you want to do. That's not the Midwest. But nevertheless, Kyle will be there. I always think of Kentucky, you know, of the South, you know, rising up and stuff like that.

You're not thinking of Kentucky. We will soon know how Kentuckyans feel about themselves because I'm sure we're going to hear about it just by implying that they might be part of the Midwest or as well as well as well, says, the great. South. There you go. We're working on something special for the live show. Maybe there'll be props. If we can, we can get Ben Cruz to give us a little budget there. We'll figure it out. But again, 2 PM February 17th, that's All-Star Saturday at the high-fi in downtown Indianapolis. Get the tickets now. Right now, I looked at the website, they're right up there. Hi-Fiindy.com. That's h-I-F-I-N-D-Y.com. Very excited for this. All right. Let's get on with the show here, as we mentioned, first part of the new year. We kind of want to reassess, reset things

as we get into 2024. So what we're going to do is we're going to have two wide-ranging conversations about each conference, each big race as we get toward the stretch run. Let's start in the West. I feel like we have to do that, considering that we just witnessed the league past Super Bowl last night with the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Boston Celtics. So I have one question for each conference, and then we'll just kind of go from there. This one, I'm labeling New Year, New Takes. So we're going to talk about how to make sense of the West, but we are not allowed to lean on the fact that the Nuggets won the title last year. So in fact, if you mentioned the Nuggets won the title last year or anything like that, Isaiah Blakely, our beloved producer, is going to hit us with the X from the Family Feud show.

In fact, Isaiah, can you actually play us the sound right now? There you go. Now, why are we doing this? Oh, I know why you're doing it. Yeah, I know why. But here's the other thing. I also find myself because the West is so deep and so good. Honestly, I can't remember a playoff race this good, this late into the season since I've been covering the league.

It's 15, 16 years at this point. but I always lean on the fact and I think we have in recent podcast the fact that the Nuggets have been there before they know how to do this and I must want to remove that crush from the discussion to see where we met out.

I'll accept your terms if we can also play the sound every time you disparage the Nuggets history. Every time you say you don't quite know why but you can't trust those guys. Okay.

I'm with that. So why don't we start from the top. Yeah, go ahead. When we start from the top then? The question is, how do you make sense of the West? Rob, do you want to go take it from there? Okay, so I know we have tiered out the West and the league pretty recently,

but I found myself kind of bonding teams together by their spiritual peers. Like where these teams are right now, who are the teams that are kind of in similar positions to them? So I think if we're going to start anywhere in the West, and we're excluding the championship which shall not be referenced or named, the new wave of the Western Conference to me is the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Oklahoma City Thunder. These are the contenders in plain sight. They're some of the most successful teams in this regular season.

And in particular, the Thunder, they've got wins over the last couple of weeks, over the wolves, over the Nuggets, over the Celtics, and two of those by 23 plus points. Hard to argue with that kind of resume at this point in the season. And hard to argue with the idea that the Thunder could be here even earlier than expected. and by here I mean contending. I mean pushing the nuggets. I mean, getting to the Western Conference Finals. They're kind of on that kind of trajectory right now. Yeah, and, you know, New Year, new takes.

You know, I was a bit, I don't want to say too dismissive, just kind of dismissive of the idea that the Thunder were in, you know, the top tier of the Western Conference as far as, you know, they'd be threatening the conference finals easily in the top three when everything got shaken out. But, you know, it's hard to argue. with these results. They've proven against the best competition in the NBA

that they absolutely belong. And I've had to revise my opinion of this team. It's kind of hard to go against them. Again, every team in the conference has their weaknesses, some more glaring than others, then by no means a perfect or a complete team, especially when you consider the fact that, and we talked about this off mic,

Like, Sam Presti has no reason to fast forward anything going on here. So I don't think he's going to like go out of his way to, you know, quote unquote, sure up some of their weaknesses. So they're going to be happy with their team as is. But even as is, young as they are, precocious as they are, they've shown especially on offense, man, like these guys can score with the best of them, which as much as we need, you need a solid defense to advance in the postseason. and we know the league is an offense-driven league

and that they can be a lead on that end against the best competition. I've kind of changed my mind about these guys and what they might be able to accomplish. It's not even that they're elite on offense to me. It's that the thunder relative to all the teams in the league right now are one of the most consistent in their style of play. They're one of the hardest teams to take out of what they do.

And it's because you may have all these ideas of how you're going to load up, how you're going to batten down the hatches, how you're going to stop all their drive. driving, but then you get out there in the mix and the way they stretch you out and the reliability of their spacing, Justin, it's made them really hard to guard on a nightly basis. And it's unlocked Shea, who was an incredible talent and already a first team NBA guy as a clear-cut candidate for the best player in the league.

I think those are the two things I took away from last night's win against the Celtics. One, Shea was the best player on the court in that game. Maybe not in every game in every series, but certainly is of that caliber where he can be. Better than John the Baptist. That's crazy. Unfortunately. Two was that when his water got shut off, when they finally put Tatum on him and he started to struggle a little bit, J. Dub kind of took over that game to the point where he just gave them the last push. And to me, that is the thing that's booing my confidence now with the thunder. It's that She can get you so far, but those other guys are starting to step up.

Maybe Chet won't have that sort of moment in the playoffs just because he is technically a rookie. and J-dub is also in his second year. But the other guys are kind of coming around along with Shay. So this isn't just the case last year, for instance, where it's just Shea carrying younger guys here. So I'm like you guys. I kind of feel myself turning around to this idea that the Thunder could be in the mix for the finals this year.

Yeah, Jalen Williams quietly taken a pretty important step for them. As a creator, just looks more confident, looks more assertive in his gaps, just like has a better sense of where and when he needs to attack. and in this kind of drive-and-kick system, that's honestly easier said than done. I think a lot of guys fancy themselves as being capable driving-kick players,

and then they get out there and they can't quite feel their way through. They overdrive, they over-commit, or sometimes they overpass, they get a little too deferential. I think J-Dub is really locked in to what his role needs to be on this team. And it's as defined as ever by his highs

and by Josh Giddy's, I would say, largely lows this season, although he had a nice game against the Celtics. a nice game last night. But Jalen Williams has been ascendant. And you can see it not only in our conversations here. You're going to see it in our rankings here at the ringer.com. Like there's a lot of respect for the way he's playing because he's proving that he can

be a quality second option on nights where Chet isn't quite that. And that's what you need when your second best player is a rookie, or at least ostensibly a rookie, a guy in his first actual NBA season. Yeah. And Chet last night, he made a few threes. I think, you know, if the Thunder are going to have. any night they get six, seven, threes between Chet and Josh Giddy, they're going to be very tough to deal with.

But, you know, he had the three ball working last night, not necessarily his best offensive game. And, you know, just because of his age and where he's at in his development, he's going to encounter matchup issues in, you know, some of the later rounds of the playoffs that the thunder are fortunate enough to get there. But still, his positional versatility, just, you know, being able to be the. rim protector and the out on the floor big that he's been all season long while knocking down those threes while showing stuff off the dribble.

It's just incredible to watch in this ecosystem. And again, you know, the spacing is key because without it, a standard big man, like, it's going to be very easy or way easier, I should say. I don't think anything's easy against Shea Gilgis, Alexander, but a lot easier to clog up those driving lanes to pack the paint. to get back out, even if he's, you know, a slightly more marginal shooter, slower release, right? But because he's putting them up there, it just puts the defense in a bind

that the five men is doing that while also still being a plus on the defensive end. So, yeah, they're putting together a beautiful triumvirate, obviously, the complimentary piece. You know, this is as big a case in Wallace pod as there exists on the freaking internet at this point. Oh, my. And so, yeah, it's pretty cool. And yeah, it's nice to even understand that, like, man, this team is also in the mix. Well, stylistically, the sort of counter that they have to a lot of the teams in the West is why I think I would put them firmly in the camp of not doing anything at the trade deadline. Rob, where did you net out again?

Because this is kind of the big talking point with the thunder these days. In terms of whether they should make a trade? Yeah, should you make a trade? And if you're going to make a trade, do you make the half measure to maybe just like get a, a big or another like defensive wing in there in case giddy doesn't come through in the playoffs or do you hit the button go for a lottery or someone like that? I don't mind like a moderate trade for a veteran guy, but I don't see any reason to make any sort of big swing at this stage. I have too much faith in this core. I have too much faith in their ability to play together. And as I was alluding to

it, it's difficult to throw someone into this midstream if they're not an experienced player who knows how to operate this way. So yeah, if you want to get someone in who's a marginal upgrade over Kenrich Williams or Vasily Mitchitch, like I'm amenable to that. But as far as replacing the core guys, like the starting five, I really like the balance and how complimentary they are. Also, I think it's important for them to actually be tested in the playoff to make the evaluation of what the actual weaknesses. I don't see how you can, you know, for example, what people would consider the finishing

pieces of the nuggets as Aaron Gordon. and my man Kenny, those guys, the Nuggets went through the playoffs, had failures that were very specific to the Nuggets, and they went out and found guys that could plug up those holes for them. I think that's the approach. Okay, see, she should probably take. It's like, let's go out, play the best people, see if we even have weaknesses that need to be shorn up in that market,

and then proceed that way. So, yeah, in that sense, there's no rush. Because I don't think you would even have known that you needed a KCP over Will Barton before you had certain types of playoff shortcomings at that position, you know, in that specific way, defensively, right? And so, yeah, I think they should go through the playoffs and then figure out what they want to do to upgrade this thing. I do think ultimately they'll have to trade Giddy for the final piece of the puzzle. and like I think it probably should be a big wing like Markinen,

almost like the symbolic like circling of the wagons of the Kendrick Perkins trade, like the Jeff Green for Kendrick Perkins. But I have to say back in the day, because I've been thinking about this a lot, like Jeff Green on OKC if they just kept him, that would have been a fucking sick small ball team back in the day. But I do think that's going to have to happen. But why do it this year when I thought it was a nice reminder from chat when he's like, I played 30 games.

Like I haven't done much. while one thing I do want to point out is as much as this acceptance of the thunder is pretty new, I think, not just us, but just like in the general NBA community, no bad losses this season. Only lost to one sub-500 team this year, and that is the Golden State Warriors on November 3rd. So like, there's something here, and I think eventually they'll need to add to it, but now I think they're probably in a good spot. Was that the world's first comparison of Lowry Markinen to Kendrick Perkins that I just heard. Symbolically, yes.

Isaiah, can we get the X sound just on that alone right now? Nah, he deserved props for being both cross-racial and cross-positioning. It's like these guys don't even play the same positions and he's able to make that comparison. People forget about the ceremonial Kendrick Perkins's first play of the game post up, all right? They need to learn the history of this game. lost in the 2012 finals. Well, him and Harden probably.

I do think the Timberwolves are kind of in a similar position, though, in the sense that they're still identifying where their weaknesses are exactly. They're a little more one-sided, I would say, than the Thunder. The Thunder are a stout team all around. The Wolves, much more of a defense first team. And the nights where their defense isn't there, it can be a little hard for them to keep up offensively. But I think they're still going through the motions of figuring out how they would even want to improve offense.

What kinds of tradeoffs they would be willing to make? How much size would they be willing to give up if they were to make a change? And that's the kind of thing you want to see through in a real series against a team that's not the Nuggets, right? You want to see a different kind of matchup. You want to see if you can get through a couple rounds with this team as constructed before you start doing anything radical with a roster that's been really, really good. Yeah. And then the interesting counterbalance of that is obviously the Timberwolves, the team you brought up, Rob. Was, you've been a big defender.

and now they've been playing well overall. Offensively, it's actually getting worse, not better, even though the defense has been rock solid. I believe they're still first in defense in the league right now. Are you still putting them in the same level as the under the same expectations? Yeah, I think because their defense is so good over and over in the playoffs, we see that games can get just like dirtied up and muddied up. And so I don't know.

I think with the individual brilliance that obviously Ambrings, and even to a certain extent still Carl Anthony Towns, I think in a grinded out type of affair, they have the individual talent to muster, you know, enough free throws and offensive rebounds and mismatches and that type of thing to get the right kind of offense going. It just doesn't look pretty. and when, you know, they're not getting the three-point shooting from Nas Reid

and they're not scoring in transition is tougher. They're not going to be a beautiful offensive half-court set team. Like, they're just not. Their set offense is not going to look incredible this year. I think what they have to hope is that they grind people to a pole on defense and that they just get just enough. I like that ant's free throws have been ticking up. But he's, you know, he still hasn't figured out the balance on his drives to square himself up

and then explode and actually create the right type of content. Excuse me. Contact. Content. But I like the direction that that's going particularly because when you have a guy who can just force his way to the free throw line time after time again. in the half court, that translates, you know, in the playoffs, right? And so, yeah, the offense, not trending in the wrong direction is a bad sign, but the fact that it hasn't imploded the entire situation to me just shows me

how elite that unit is on the defense event. Yeah, it feels like what they're missing, Justin, is maybe just a little bit of offensive explosion. Like a guy who can actually go off who's not Anthony Edwards or Carl Towns. They have a lot of rock solid players, but Jaden McDaniels is not that guy. Nasreed can be in some matchups, but you also want to be playing your other two bigs a lot of minutes.

Kyle Anderson, really useful player, he's not going to put up 25 for you on a given night. And so the nights where Ant's judgment is a little bit off-kilter or he's just being smothered by really good defenders, all of a sudden you're putting a lot of pressure on Carl Towns. And some matchups, he really lives up to it. I think overall he's had a really successful season. But he has tough times too with foul trouble,

with specific opponents with attacking from difficult spaces on the floor. You're asking a lot of him if he's really the only guy who's going to step up in those moments to absorb usage because Mike Conley, Rudy Gobert, Jaden McDaniels,

those guys are not built for that. Yeah, and in a lot of ways, the discussion about the thunder can almost be applied to the Timberwolves because the Timberwolves are in wait and C mode to see if Ant can be a Shea level of player. I think everyone's expecting him to make that leap. I'm not sure he's quite gotten there.

He's kind of on the fringes these days. And so they need that because I was looking back into history teams with an elite defense. And just like an okay to worst offense, the track record over the past 20 years is pretty spoty of getting to the finals. There are only five teams, in fact, that have had a top five defense or a 10th or lower offense. It's the 22 Warriors, which, by the way, I don't remember the Warriors being so good on defense and so bad on offense. That doesn't jive with my memory of a Steph Curry team, but I guess so. 2020, Lakers, the Celtics in both 08 and 11, and then obviously the Pistons in 04, the heat were ninth on defense and 25th on offense.

They're just a historical outlier in just like all of history. But I think the one commonality between most of those teams, Hall of Fame level, MVP level guy that can carry them in the right moment, Steph Curry, LeBron James, KG. And so Aunt probably has to get there to overcome the collective issues they have on offense. Yeah, the biggest gap in basketball, and it fuels so much of our conversations and the conversations across NBA media and the fretting among fans everywhere, is the difference between your best guy being a top 15 guy and a top five guy. It doesn't feel like an ocean, but it's an ocean. And if you can get to the Shea level, the Luca level, the Nicole Yokic level, from the Aunt Edwards level, the Minnesota Timberls are going to be.

be golden for a long time. Dude in the playoffs, as the great philosopher once said. I wonder if in the right matchup it can turn into that in an individual series. I don't know that he can be that for four rounds. You know, I have my doubts about that, particularly, you know, this season. The guy's still like 23 years old. We got to, you know, bear that in mind. But, you know, it's going to take that for them to go as far as I think.

I think they can go. And so, yeah, I wouldn't, and again, I think the Warriors are the sort of blueprint for that, right? It's like Steph being, you know, on another level. And then every now and again, Wiggins would come in. Every now and again, Poole are coming. Every now and again, Clay, all of a sudden, Clay's hitting three, three-pointers in a quarter, right? It's got to be by committee outside of that. But I would say that Carl Towns is a better off.

offensive player than anybody outside of Stephona Warriors that year they won a championship, right? And so, you know, like I said, I think in the playoffs, we always tend to forget that these things end up being matchup dependent, you know, who has a wing big enough, strong enough, quick enough to make ants life hell on a regular basis and, you know, can deal with what Carl Towns presents. But, you know, that's the beauty of sports. We'll see this thing play out on the court. And where I think Minnesota is going to be really good in those specific matchups was, is if your team is very reliant on one star to create, the Timberwolves are just going to mash

them. They have so much size, they have so much length inside and out. If you're reliant on Luca as much as the Mavs are, if you're reliant on LeBron, as much as the Lakers are, the wolves are a really tough matchup for you. So what else do we want to talk about here? Do we want to work in Denver? Yeah, can I tell you guys about the most complete contend. in the Western Conference right now.

We already talked about one of them, the Oklahoma City Thunder, one of the only three teams in the West that are top 10 on offense, top 10 on defense. You mentioned the other just in the Denver Nuggets, no surprise there. We can talk about them in depth,

but I really want to talk about this third team, which is the Los Angeles Clippers, top 10 on offense, top 10 on defense, winners of 12 of their last 14 games. Am I crazy? Are they really pulling this thing together in a way that will,

I mean, they've demanded our respect. They demanded our attention, and they look like a really complete team. Well, not just winners of 12 or 14. Every time Kauai plays, they win. And so this is the same old conversation we've been having. They're 10 and 0, I believe, in the last 10 games at Kaui plays. But then he all of a sudden misses, I think it was four games or whatever it was,

under mysterious circumstances. No one knows what's going on. And we're all like, oh, maybe the season's over. Oh, wait, he's back. So as much as I believe again in the, the Clippers, it does not feel good to do so, Was. I think the thing that's sort of changed my mind just a little bit about the Clippers is that James Harden is back to being good in isolation.

That's kind of the ball game for, that's been the ball game for him his whole career. It's that he's been this incredible isolation guy, essentially since he got to the Rockets. and when he's been less effective in, you know, individual playoff series, if, you know, to point out just a specific, it's that he's not been able to crush people, crush switches or crush his primary matchup in isolation. And right now, he's looking pretty damn good, getting downhill, he's getting to the line. This level of James Harden, with Kawhi Leonard, relatively healthy, and the rest of what they got going on, over there is something to behold. But again, it's, you know, it's got a matter against the best teams.

Like, can James Harden be an isolation killer? I have my doubts. But that's what's been happening these past few weeks. And they have not been aces against the best teams in the league. Against the stronger opponents on their schedule have not been as solid as you might want, even at this stage in the season,

given the way things started. But am I seeing things, or is James Harden actually been okay to pretty good defensively? Am I imagining that? Because I'm not going to lie, I expected him to be just a deadweight burden on defense on this group, in a way they would be hard for them to collectively cover for. There's no one signature, Joel and B,

level rim protector behind him to erase mistakes. It has to be more of a group effort for the Clippers. But they've been able to triangulate matchups and coverages. And I think most importantly, hardens effort level has actually been pretty good. And maybe that's ultimately the benefit of having him in this more modulated facilitating role is not only do you get the more efficient ISO opportunities that Waz is talking about where he doesn't have to force the issue as much, but he actually has some energy to try on defense and even more important than that, he's using

it to try on defense. Well, I think you hit the point there, which is that this team is so deep and has been for so many years that they're able to mask some of those deficiencies. They were able to kind of integrate him so seamlessly, in part because Hardin hit another level, and I think is actually trying, which is always helpful. But also, like, you have guys like Norm Powell who would start on half the teams in the league coming off the bench there. And just having him as a guy you could play five minutes or 20 is just such a luxury that being so rich, quite frankly, with Steve Balmer provides. And, like, I'm just marveling at various points of the depth where it's like Mason Plumley comes back last night. Doesn't play because, like, Daniel Tice has been okay.

enough that they don't have to play. Amazing probably a quality backup for a lot of teams in this league. And so there's just like, there's just guys on top of guys. And like when you can have Kauai just miss four games and not miss a beat there, as long as he's coming back to complete the picture, like this team is going to be good. Yeah, it feels like a good sign that the biggest hole you could poke in their rotation right now is that maybe their eighth guy isn't as great as you would like. But in terms of the top seven, they're pretty reliable.

and the eighth guys, at least the eighth guy candidates they're playing right now, and Amir Kofi and Daniel Tice, those are solid, reliable players. They're not going to be absolute disasters out there. And so if you can have a really good starting lineup, if you can have the Russell Westbrook Wildcard in some of these matchups, and then you can plug and play with the veterans you do have in addition to Norm Powell, hard to argue with that kind of platform in terms of making an actual deep playoff run, again, assuming everybody and Kauai most of all is healthy.

Can we talk about the Sons? Only after we talk about the Nuggets. Okay, we can talk about the Nuggets first. Why do you want to talk about the Nuggets? Well, because I would say they're the only other contemporary, like, complete team right now, in terms of offense and defense at a high level. You didn't take the bait. I didn't.

The buzzer stick was, is not working here. We talked about this before the podcast, telling everyone that they were going to get the buzzer if you talked about them is just letting people avoid it. I refuse to be buzzed because here is an incredibly present tense stat for you, Justin. The best lineups in the league. Number one is the Philadelphia 76ers. Their starters have been incredible. Number two, your Denver Nugget starters, injuries, dog bites and all.

When those guys are on the floor, they blow teams out by over 20 points per 100 possessions. And even if you sub in Reggie Jackson for Jamal Murray, those lineups were gangbusters too. So long as that is the case. the nuggets are going to have advantage over pretty much anybody, where things get dicier for me, and I'm curious to hear how you feel about this was. When you go to the bench, where is the guy who's going to go off for 20 plus,

kind of similar to the Timberwolves position where if Reggie Jackson isn't hitting, there isn't a lot of output there. Yeah, I thought we all felt like Christian Brown was going to take a step forward this year. that step hasn't really happened in a major way, although I will say I'm encouraged by what I see from Peyton Watson, honestly. Not in just one, his shot looks good,

but the shots that are generated for him are really nice looks. You know, the defense is coming along. He's got this. He's very toolsy, right? He's very quick, agile. He's very long. But it's not panning. out as of yet.

He's not like a really good defender as of yet, but I like the direction that it's going. And I could see him, you know, sort of turning a couple of playoff games on his head by just making four threes in the game, right? Because he was completely wide open and, you know, transition opportunities and stuff like that. Christian Brown has been a little bit disappointing. But yeah, the bench is where I'm like, and we knew this coming into the season that the bench wasn't going to be sort of a strong point.

I'm still keeping my eye on that situation and monitoring it. But Peyton Watson, I've been encouraged, cautiously optimistic, if you will. I think the question is considering how good the West is and how deep a lot of their competition is, is the bench going to matter more now than it did last year when they can get by with Jeff Green and obviously Bruce Brown had another level in the playoffs. But it's like the Thunder just like creating guys that most casual fans probably haven't heard of and that guy's scoring like 10 out of nowhere. Like Wiggins comes off the bench

and they're not, I'm like, oh yeah, that guy's pretty good. And like, Mietch is someone, I don't think people are really aware. If they just have guys on top of guys on top of guys where they could just shuffle through and get that added jolt that you guys are talking about, the point where like, I ultimately default to the nuggets. And I guess you can give me a buzzer for that just... Yeah, why do you...

For that general insinuation. But it's also like the size kind of... combination without sacrificing offense. I'm looking up and down these teams that they're going to go against. And I don't even know who could even come close to that sort of just combination there. I guess the Lakers, if they swing the right trade in order to add some juice to the offense, but that's obviously a big if. And so for that reason, I default to the nuggets. But there's going to be a lot of slogging going on if they are going to make it back to the finals. Yeah, I think more slogging than we have seen previously in certain playoff series that,

again, will not be mentioned. But you can see in Peyton Watson, in Christian Brown, they may not be the traditional sixth man types, but those are impact players. I would say Christian Brown definitively, Peyton Watson prospectively, but we're starting to see it. You just wish like a Julian Strother or someone like that was more consistent. Strother is the one where I think a lot of people had some high hopes out of Denver land, especially in the preseason, and it just hasn't panned out as if yet. Maybe he'll figure some things out and he'll look better going forward. And, you know, again, we got to watch the buyout market because we got, let's be real, Uncle Jeff Green was not some hotly start after free agent that ended up giving them quality minutes. Maybe they're able to

get, you know, the veteran buyout market or maybe their booth is able to pull a rabbit out the hat. at the deadline to get some level of veteran, you know, reliability in there. And that'll get them right. So we'll see. But Peyton Watson looks like a, a 2024 championship role player to me to put a fine point on it. Let's talk about the Sons who are riding high on a three-game winning streak right now.

Four, I think. Four. I want to sell them short. They played two games recently with the big three in there. The numbers with them all playing together look pretty good. It is a robust 65 minutes of game time. We've gotten with Bradley Beal, Kevin Durant, and Evan Booker. One group chat episode is how long they have played together.

That's right. I got to say, when you see it, you become a believer. because all the issues that you might have with them just dissipate when you're like, oh, those minutes that they're getting by with with Chamezi Metu, like all of a sudden we don't even have to play this guy, although Metu's actually been pretty good this year. And it's like Akogi comes back and it's just like

everything clicks into place. I would stop short of putting them if we were going to tear this out again of like the top title winning tiers. But if we're doling out percentages of teams that could be in the finals mix, I think Wads you have to still put the suns in there. Yeah, I've always have, but it was very health-dependent. And the start of this year, the health start of this year, between Booker and between Bradley Bill, surprisingly, KD, the gray beard of the bunch, has been the most reliable sun as far as being out there on the floor. That's been very discouraging.

But the sort of logic of the team and the construction, specifically offensively, always made perfect sense. to me, that they would be very hard to guard and would be a supernova on offense and, you know, kind of piece together competence on the other end. Like, to me, that's a no-brainer that this thing is going to work when these guys and when the three of these guys are relatively healthy. It's nice to see again that we're getting the minutes of this big three that we were promised finally, kind of a little bit. But, yeah, injury remains the bugaboo Achilles heel of this side.

Yeah, kind of a little bit, I think, is the key part of that because, yes, they've won four straight games. Kevin Durant is now out with some hamstring soreness, and Devin Booker said today that maybe part of the reason is because he had to do so much heavy lifting earlier in the year. So now we are just in the full on cycle of injuries of carrying guys and what that does to you. But I did think that their win over the magic specifically during this streak was really good proof of concept, right? That is a really good defense. and it was just springing leaks everywhere trying to keep these guys under wraps. So the supporting cast isn't going to be great night to night,

but when those three guys are out there, they're going to be really formidable. I think right now it's a little concerning that to win some of these games, Frank Vogel is going into like full-on playoff rotation mode where Eric Gordon is playing starters minutes off the bench, Chamezimette, who as you mentioned, Justin is giving them some good minutes.

And after that, it's basically scraps for someone like a Kogi, maybe, or whoever it is that kind of makes sense with that matchup. that's a little tight for a mid-regular season rotation when you're just trying to get all your guys back, but it's what they have to do to win some of these games. And after the Suns, though, everyone else in this mix to me has to do something. Before the deadline or just like have a couple team meetings,

including with the Pelicans, with Zion Williams, and having the most above-average-ass season that I could have imagined. Like, he's back, he's playing, but he's like pretty good. He's not just gangbusters in the way that I think a lot of, of people had hope, but like the Kings, for instance, just coming off a loss of the Hornets, like I am becoming a believer in Kagan Murray, but I am becoming more and more convinced that just rolling it back with Harrison Barnes, like probably wasn't the move there. And I would love to see them make an upgrade, roll his contract into a Jeremy Grant or some of the other guys

we've mentioned as possible targets there. And then like Dallas, Lakers, wars, all kind of in that same mix for me. I think those three especially, the Kings, Pelicans, and Maxx. those to me are any given night winners and any given night wild cards. And we've seen it in some of their losses. Like, Jesus Christ, the Mavs, they beat the Jazz by 50 points. And then the next week they lost to them by like 40 points. How does that happen? How do you have swings that are that erratic? How if you are the Kings, do you lose to the Hornets without Lamello Ball? And I think the Pelicans are more materially successful than the Mavs or the Kings are in terms of overall record, overall body of work to date, but their injury risks are bigger. And they also got

obliterated in the most important game of their season so far. So it's really hard to know with any of these three who you're going to get on a nightly basis, and it's more than matchups. Like the Kings are a great example of this. They lose to the teams they should beat. And it's a weird thing where maybe it's coming off of such a successful regular season.

The night-to-night focus isn't quite there for them. The night-to-night edge isn't quite there for them. It's not too long. Maybe that's it. But they've been this way basically since the start of this year. It's more season-into-season, right? basically building off of what they did last year. It kind of feels like Sacramento is taking

the fact that they should be a really good regular season team for granted right now. I will just say, and we can put a bow on this conversation with this, the Lakers are gross right now. I know. I don't know what the hell they're doing with the starting lineup change.

I don't know why if you're going to demote DeAngelo Russell. You're playing him with Austin Reeves. I don't know what's going on there. I would just say that Darwin. We know what's going on there, guys. We know what's going on. Do we? Darvin Han's just pulling levers. It feels like.

We know what's going on there. There's certain people are agitating for upgrades, if you will, in the environment. And so they're in that weird in-between phase. I'll never forget the summer before they traded for AD, the season before they traded for AD, where Brandon Ingrams just playing. bad the whole damn year. Like he's just because he knows he's going to be in the AD deal. And then the second February ends, he just started killing people.

Like these guys are human beings. Yes, they're professional, but like, you can't expect for the speculation that's swirling a lot of these guys to not affect the focus and the togetherness of the bunch. Like, you know, I think that's what we're seeing right now with the up and down play of the Lakers right now. So I'm not surprised that they've been so discombobulated. I will say, though, that the answer is so clear. And if anything, I wonder if the OG and Anobitrade, the fact that he went for significantly less than I think was expected for so long almost gives you more confidence that the Lakers can maybe swing something for Zach Lovie. while still retaining.

Austin Reams, the math becomes a little bit more difficult because Rihachamur is now out. And you really are going to have to, like, swallow a lot of shit if you want that far-off Lakers pick is going to be probably DeAndro Russell and Arrui and whatever else. There really isn't going to be a much sweetener coming back. You're just going to have to like stomach it. But if Levine's in there and he's just giving them any sort of boost,

I'm not even talking about all-star levels, Zach Levine. I'm talking about average ass, just like good shooter, good creator, Zach Levine. Like, I'm back in on the Lakers again. Let me tell you something, Justin. Just get Zach Levine back in that Southern California, Sunshine. He will be rejuvenated. He will be redeemed.

He will be ready to dedicate himself to the championship run. But why would the Bulls do that? Like, why would they accept that kind of trade package? I don't think they're going to get anything great for Zach Levine, but they exist for more reasons than just to improve the Lakers. I don't think it's going to be because of that. I think you guys noticed the improved play in Chicago when Zach Levine went out. I don't think it's just management that's like,

yo, this guy's not worth what we're paying him and all of that. I think internally in that locker room, from what I've been hearing anyway, everybody isn't pleased in there with Zach Levine. And so there's more pressure to be like, yo, get this guy out of here so we can have a group of people who actually want to be here and focus on the task at hand. So I think those pressures are going to mount as well. Like, I think a lot of times we forget about the human toll of some of this stuff, right?

Everybody has to show up to that facility and show up to work in that locker room day to day and having this kind of thing hang over it. You know, when we're playing 2K and Madden, like our little avatars, they don't have feelings. But in the real world, like, those feelings, and these, you know, these human sort of frailties, they come into play and they come into play when it comes to these transactions as well. This is a big episode for feelings. We're off to a great start in 2024.

That's right. Was, you talked about that from the Lakers side, too, in the way that kind of constantly being in rumors affects, especially as a role player or someone who could be included in those deals, I think one of the ways that's manifesting for the Lakers, the inconsistency of their offense, just by the way the team is built in its best form, it leaves the defense with no room for error. This is a team that has to be in lockstep defensively. And so when the Lakers can't even live up to their reputation and their identity, which

is to be a defense first team, because the communication is off, because on like the focus, the effort on a nightly basis isn't quite there, that kind of feeds into that feedback loop. Then you're doing a lot of soul searching because your record is tanking because no one is quite where they want to be. and then only facilitates those rumors that are dragging guys down in the first place. I can't wait for Zach Levine to get traded there. Then all of a sudden he's doing like back hand springs in the pregame warmups. It's cartwheels.

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Bonus issued as non-witrable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. see terms at sportsbook.fandul.com. All right, let's flip to the Eastern Conference now. We're kind of hinting at the OG and Inobie trade because I do think the big question in the East right now as we flip the calendar is whether or not the Knicks, as currently constructed, and now that's a big part of this, change the East at all.

And so I want to talk just quickly about the Knicks now that we've had, what, one game of them with OGN there in which he played a godly, ungodly amount of minutes already, but did seem to clarify. While fouling out. He got a captain minutes and he still played a lot. A Tibbs guy by any other name. Clearly seems to fit what they're going for there and did clarify things in a way that I

think is helpful. Julius Randall all of a sudden looks like the Julius Randall on odd years as opposed to one in even years who tends to suck and can't shoot. So I'm starting to think about the Knicks. Clearly, we could talk about them long term and what else they can get. But I don't know. This version of the Knicks. I could see four or five seed, Rob.

What do you think? Well, I want to hear from Waz. Justin, you and I already got some takes off on the next. I want to hear Waz's take. The most important bit of this. And that's clearing up the rumor that was started by one Bill Simmons on this podcast that I was not able to make the most odd because I was hung over and, you know, too groggy to do it. Not true.

I was ready to go. But the three-man show went on without me. So let's just dispel with that rumor. Because, you know, it was one of those Donald Trump people are saying, but it wasn't true, guys. Well, I was ready to go. I was locked and loaded. It's just, you know, we decided to go a different direction with the boss man.

You know, to get into the trade, obviously, I think the Knicks upgraded their roster. It was always kind of clunky to have RJ playing the three. He was undersized there. He was underserved there. IQ, Emmanuel quickly could never sort of reach his full potential being the backup to Jalen Brunson, right? It's almost like a Kirkland brand version of the Halliburton situation in Sacramento. Like, to pay him market value would have never made sense if he was never going to be a 38-minute-a-game guy next to Jalen Brunson. So it made sense to move on from these guys and to bring in an OG again,

legitimate, bona fide small forward, elite level defense, way more consistent shooter than R.J. Barrett has ever been. Now, you know, O.G.'s not a perfect player. The handle leaves a lot to be desired. Anything besides bully ball in the shot creation realm becomes, you know, sort of wayward in their attempts and all of that. And then there's the injury history and all of that. But to me, they've clearly upgraded the right.

roster now, are the Knicks as good as the Krem della crem? I don't believe so. I still think they're an elite shot creator away. Julius Randall is a lot of things. That man is not an elite shot creator in the NBA playoffs. He's proven himself to be that playoff after playoff after playoff. We don't need to beat a dead horse with that. But I do think it's a great deal. Another thing that we need to dispel with this idea that the Knicks need to sell OG and Nobie on staying. They did not. swing this deal because they don't know if OG Ananobe is staying in New York this summer. Newsflash, y'all, these deals don't happen.

Darry, without people having an agreement in place, okay? There's the Habanero. There's the spice coming out. We know OG is going to be on the Knicks after next summer. Okay. They don't make this deal without having that sort of agreement in place with his representatives. Right? And so going forward, it just makes you think,

what is it going to take for the Knicks to take the next step? I've heard people reignite this idea that, oh, now that you got OG, you got Mitchell, maybe it makes sense to bring Donovan Mitchell into this situation because you can sure up what the deficiencies on defense with what you got on that backline when Mitch comes back and OG is in there. I don't know if I agree with that. I think, I don't know, I think him in Brunson's, can be complimentary, but damn, I don't know. I don't know. I think they should try to go in a

different direction than that. But then the question again becomes, what is that direction? Who is that direction? And I don't have a great answer for Nick fans to be quite honest with you. Yeah, I think we think of foundational players typically is just face of the franchise type of players, all stars, you know, all NBA guys. OG to me is a foundational player because he provides you what in the NBA they would say optionality. It's actually just options, but in the NBA jargon, it would say optionality. He makes it

so much easier to do anything because you have him in place to soak up all of the things that a lot of superstars do not want to do. I would say, like, even though he has become a little overrated, as we talk about the nine draft picks that he could have gone for last year and whatnot, like his ability

to just cover virtually any player in the league is just like a primatic. Did you see him against Aunt Edwards in his debut just swalled him alive. And now we should mention that. Edman in hell. That was the afternoon after New Year's. And so those games typically aren't like the highest of caliber competition. But OG just provides them so many different pathways to do so many different things now. And to the point where it's like, yeah, maybe Mitchell can work just because you have OG in there. And it's like in a broad sense, it was almost like a challenge trade to where the raptors are

challenging the Knicks that they can get more out of Barrett and certainly quickly than the Knicks could have considering who they have. And the Knicks are just paying for the right to show that OG is a max caliber player just because of all the different things that he could do. And honestly, I would much rather the OG side of that than what the Raptors ended up with, Rob. Yeah, but it is a platform, right? It is a starting point to eventually finish this version of the team because I'm with you, as currently constructed, it's hard to say that there is good. as the Celtics and the Bucks and the Sixers. I think there may be still a little bit removed from that,

but most importantly, what they've done is they've made themselves a bigger threat to those teams. And this is something that they lost when Mitchell Robinson got hurt, is that like nobody wants to see us in the playoffs factor that kind of grind it out. The idea that playing the Knicks over seven games was going to wear you down and was not going to be any fun, and you might just lose it against a team that's really capable

and is really going to work the offensive glass and defend hard, whatever it is you think about OGNan and Obie's limitations or his reputation, that's not a guy anyone wants to try to score on for seven games. It's not a guy Aunt Edwards wanted to score on for one game. And so to get some of that back with the optionality that you're describing, Justin, not only in terms of how you build the roster going forward, but how you manage it night to night, that one to five versatility in terms of who he can actually guard.

Like an all-NBA defender who guards multiple positions is always going to be more valuable than an all-N-Ba point guard, or an all-defense-level point guard who can only really lock into that one spot and pressure the ball. It's the reason why Avery Bradley's impact on the game was always kind of very narrowed and limited. OG can guard on ball, he can guard off-ball,

and that's why when you think about how does this team match up with Boston, for example? Well, you can put him on Tatum or you can put him on Chris Stas for Zingis. You know, if they're playing indie, you can put him on Tyrese Halliburton as he has, or you can put him on Miles Turner and he can switch into anything.

So I love that part of what this does for the Knicks defense. Jason Tatum still having nightmares from 2020 where OG did to him. Add that man in a straight jacket, stonewalling that guy on an island, isolation after isolation, just bodying up that dude, okay?

This is OG Ananobie's pedigree. His reputation is history in actual meaningful games against the best wings this league has to offer. Like, I understand why there's been so much ink spilt on a potential OG Ananoby deal for the last, like, three freaking years. Like, it's warranted.

He's been that level of wing for a while now, right? And so, yeah, that's when it gets interesting. But again, the Knicks don't become next level interesting until they add another all-star level guy, whether that be. in the big man situation. You know, I've heard the Carl Towns whispers just like the rest of you guys. Of course, Donovan Mitchell has been linked to New York

for like, basically since the second he signed his extension in Utah. And so, you know, there's these guys that have been associated with New York for a minute. But yeah, it's going to take another perennial all-star type to really get this ball rolling. It really changed the complexion of the Eastern Conference.

conference contender ship. Yeah, I think we're all probably in agreement that the top three is lock solid right now with the Celtics, the bucks, and the Sixers. I would presume in that order for you guys as well. Are we allowed to talk about the reigning Eastern Conference champion heat or am I going to get buzzed for that? Well, no, that's a no, please. That is kind of where I was headed there because I maybe I'm just riding high off of the fumes of one good Julius Reno performance. but I do wonder if they're now in the mix there with the heat for that four spot. And now the regular season conversation about the heat is a fool's errand.

Because I swear to God, I look up and there's players that I've never even heard of that are starting. Like you got Niles Crane in there one game. You got R.J. Hampton, who I didn't even realize was back on the heat or on the heat to begin with. But he's starting games and looks like the athletic prospect that we all thought he was. like it's just such a like if they're able to rehab r j hampton bro like just never make a heat culture joke ever again and they're doing all of this this like kind of like like weird lineup combination stuff but they're also winning too and they're they're in fourth and so i'm like are the heat just like secretly going to do this same thing again because i think they might

even be a more complete better team especially if hemi haka's can like apply what he's doing to a playoff series. Listen, I am praying if there is an Allah or Yahweh up in heaven, please give us the one-four second-round matchup of Heat in Boston. Oh, Lordy, Lord, have mercy. Please, if there is one in heaven, that will be the series that I can die after. you publish your own book now i can die in peace that the heat have beaten the Celtics yet again and man the Celtics are such a i have to touch the stove team and that was never more clear than it was

last night against the thunder where it's like oh when we have to get Derek white uh shot at the last second like leaning into the stands or into the the seats there for a go-to three-pointer like yeah that's when they get up and and show what they could be but it's just just like they need some sort of like trauma in order to get the best version of themselves at this point. Are we really just going to waltz through this pot and pretend that Justin didn't just throw in like Frasier characters into the heat starting lineup? Who is it actually, it's Jamal Kane? Jamal Kane, yeah. You know, close by.

Close by. close by in the name department. Jaime Hakez, by the way, the hipsters, man, they've let go with Shangoon. because Shangoon has blasted him into an actual player. And now, Jaime Hakez, he is the darling of NBA hipsterdom. And rightfully so, honestly. Yeah, you don't have to tell people about Shangoon anymore. We're on to Jaime Hockes.

We're on to Trace Jackson Davis. We're moving on down the line, Waz. We got a lot of people to get the word out about it. Let me Google Trace Jackson. Oh, no. Duaz, come on. I do think Miami's worth bringing up, though, because, you know, when we saw the Knicks play against them in the playoffs,

one of the things that jumped out from that series was that RJ was one of the most consistent scores in that series for New York. And whatever you may think of OG, he's never had that kind of output in a playoff series before. His most successful was about 17 points a game against Philly in 2022. So you're trading off some of that. You're trading off some of the offensive potency against really good defensive teams. And that's where I start to look up and down this Knicks roster.

And at its best, like we saw against the Woolsey. This is a team with some world-class cutting. You know, you got OG, you got Devenchenzo. You got even Hardenstein feeding these guys. There's a nice ecosystem of off-ball movement happening. But then when it comes time for someone to dribble who's not named Jalen Brunson or Julius Randall, it's slim. They really do have two or three guys who can actually take more than one or two dribbles at a time.

So I would love to see them, even if they don't take the big swing for, you know, an all-star level shooting guard to plug into the lineup when clearly there is a shooting guard-sized hole here, I would like to see them bring in somebody who can absorb a little bit of ball handling, just to take some of the pressure off of guys like Randall and Hartensene from having to create so much. By the way, Quentin Grimes, going from untradable,

remember Quentin Grimes could not be in a single Nick's deal? Remember that part of the Quentin Grimes experience to picking splinters out his ass, essentially the entire season to now, he's back, baby. He's back. He's playing better than ever was. He's back for now.

He's the lone prospect. I think that is attractive on that team. So he better pack his bags just in case. We should probably talk to magic, too, in this conversation. Yeah. Coming off a loss last night against the Warriors, which I think probably hinted at a lot of the concerns you would have from. They've had an awesome season.

Like, the defense is incredible. But like, good Lord. I keep calling. coming back to the sludge factory on offense and like just seeing Clay Thompson take out Alaw Man Carroll for large stretches of that game. It's like you got to get through that before we can take you seriously in this mix here. I think so. Especially we're talking about how they match up with some of these other teams who are gritty who can execute at such a high level offensively. And this is a, you know, Orlando shares a similar problem to the Knicks in some ways to even

Miami in certain matchups where the teams that are at the top of the east, right? now are such juggernauts offensively. We've all been talking about kind of the out of control offensive production across the NBA right now. But when you look at it, Sacramento set the all-time offensive rating record last season, as is kind of customary these days, there's kind of one or two teams that break through every year. This year, there's a ton of teams that are breaking that record. In particular, five of them are in the Eastern Conference. And so if you're just a good defensive team that's gritting out games in the regular season, I worry that in a seven game, you know, we're all playing our best players context.

You might just get run off the floor a little bit. You might just get blown out by the potency of some of what these top teams, especially the Bucks and the Celtics are able to muster. Actually, Philly as well, I don't want to rule them out. They're right up there as well. Anybody else we need to talk about in this mix? Cavs, the Mighty Bowls. Caves.

I don't think the Caves are quite a bit. Caves are cooked, although Indy shouts to them for beating the Bucks again, which, you know, they really hate each other, which I'm really into this beef. It's pretty fantastic. But, yeah, I don't think any... Indies just... Their big man rotation is so just horrible. Just the idea that that would hold up in a series in any meaningful way just seems highly unlikely.

So, you know, as much as... Again, I love watching indie play. I think on a given night in the regular season, they can go toe to toe just over the course of a long series. I don't know how they withstand, you know, playoff level size. But I'm going to continue to be entertained by what they do. I think that's a reason why so many people wanted them to trade for someone like OG, where you've seen the Knicks kind of transform immediately

from this team of undersized drivers, you know, Josh Hart streaking in for offensive rebounds, but knowing that you're giving up so much size. and then you see OG out there against the timber wolves and he's smothering people, he's dunking at every opportunity. It's the exact kind of size that teams like the Knicks and the Pacers were missing.

And so there's only so much of that to go around, those guys who are kind of combo three-fours, who can flex up to five, who are agile enough to guard twos. I mean, OG seems like a real land, a real get for the Knicks. Him going to the Knicks too and wanting to go to the Knicks,

it was reported after the fact was a real like coming to Jesus moment about how the NBA actually works where it's like, oh, we're trade machine Pascal and OG to Indy and OJ used to play for the Hoosiers and like, oh, maybe he'll want to go back there and it's like, no, I'll just go to New York, please send me there. It's just like, that is the obstacle, those small market teams still have to overcome. But it's also just the idea that, you know,

even if the Raptors didn't trade him, this guy had a market, a very strong one in free agency. So this guy was going to get paid. So the fact that he exercised his sort of pre-agency to be like, no, I'm going to get myself to New York, still get paid, and everything's going to be fine. That's what we're talking about here. That's all. All right. Why don't we wrap it there? A reminder, yet again, live show, J. Kyle Mann, All-Star Saturday, 2 p.m.

Get tickets at hi-fiindy.com. H-I-F-I-N-D.com. You could also buy tickets from a link that's going to be in the description of this episode. I'm sure we'll tweet it out. Waz, we'll put it on his Instagram. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, of course.

That's going on the gram. That's going on everything. But also, I'm actually going to Nick's Bulls tonight. So if you see me out there, man, holler at you, boy. I'm actually going to the garden. James Dolan, hopefully don't got me on the facial recognition, but we good.

make sure you come with $5 bills was doesn't take anything less than ones for autographs but yeah thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production I'm sorry we didn't get as many Xs in as we probably should have but I probably should have anticipated that to begin with thank you to Ben Cruz we'll be back on Sunday we're back on Sundays this week so we will see you

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