The Ringer NBA Show - Recapping the Celtics Beating the Bucks, Denver Winning an Overtime Thriller, and the Sixers' Comeback Win on the Road

Episode Date: December 26, 2022

Wosny Lambre and Michael Pina recap a few of the games from Christmas Day, starting with Boston’s impressive home victory over the Milwaukee Bucks (1:47). Then they discuss Denver’s overtime victory over the Phoenix Suns and what to make of the Suns moving forward (8:26). Last, they discuss the Sixers' comeback victory over the Knicks on the road and the reports of James Harden strongly considering a return to the Houston Rockets in the offseason (16:16). Hosts: Wosny Lambre and Michael Pina Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

An Instagram post gets an unexpected boost. A TikTok catches in the algorithm. Sometimes that's all it takes to launch someone into internet fame. But then what? This Blue Up is a new podcast documentary that reveals how social media stardom is made. It's a different kind of fame. That's not always as glamorous as it looks. From Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network, I'm Alyssa Boresnak.

You can listen to This Blue Up on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm back, ladies and gentlemen, to a holiday edition of the Ringer NBA podcast. I'm your co-host, Big Wazze, aka A. Waziland, I'm joined by my brother, my partner, for real, like the Wains. Michael de Pia, what's going on, brother? How you doing, man? Merry Christmas to you. Merry Christmas. New Year's coming up.

I know you probably got some amazing resolutions that you're going to actually stick to, but not immediately abandoned the way I probably will. Hope you had a good holiday, too. I did. There was, you know, it was my five-month-olds first Christmas, which was wonderful. He enjoyed it. And then we watched 12 hours of NBA basketball together because I'm such a wonderful father. Yeah, I definitely wanted to get into a couple of news and notes coming out of the weekend.

But, yeah, for sure, I wanted to recap a couple of the weekends. games because I think, you know, there was some pretty consequential games, especially the Celtics and Bucks game, which most people would regard as a preview of the two teams that are going to decide the Eastern Conference this year, if not the NBA championship outright. The Celtics were able to pull this one out in pretty easy and dominant fashion. 139 to 118, Jason Tatum dropped the cool 40 on 22 field goal attempts. He was incredible yesterday. Jalen Brown, also a great performance, 29 points on 11 of 19.

Janice was damn good. Obviously, Janice can play better. But even on his down games, it's like, yeah, I dropped 27, you know, on 22 shots. Chris Middleton notably did not play, which I think is going to be important. He missed basically the entire conference semis last year. year and didn't play today. And I think that was a, I mean, yesterday, excuse me. And I think that was a deciding factor. What were your main takeaways from this game, if any? Boston is very difficult to beat when they shoot damn near 50% from behind the three point line and basically don't miss any

shots in the restricted area against one of the best rent protecting defenses in the NBA. I mean, their offense was humming. They played, you know, after the lull that they had where, you know, they're historically great offense and then they're the worst offense in the league for like a five or I don't even know how long the stretch was but it was not insignificant. Had a pretty good win against the Timberwolves a few days before Christmas and then just the floodgates opened from Beyond the Ark for them on Sunday. And I mean, Tatum, I mean, I wrote this in a winner. I wrote a winners and losers column on the ringer.com and Tatum, I mean, he was

I think the presumptive favorite to win. We're very early in the season, but he was a favorite to win MVP, his first MVP. He was a serious contender. And after a performance like this against Janus, against Brooke Lopez, where they threw everything at him, especially in the third quarter, he dropped 20 in the third quarter,

was perfect from the free throw line. And got buckets from the mid-range. He hit pull-ups over the dropping Lopez. They hunted Grace Anato. Allen, he abused Grayson Allen, hit a dagger three right in Janice's face, just eyed him, pulled up, docked it down. He had everything. And the bag was very deep.

And so when Jason Tatum plays like that, he looks like, I'm not going to say he's the best player alive, but he's like in the conversation on Nights Lake, like that one. And so that really stood out to me. And I mean, what's really a bummer about it is just like, I want to see Chris Middleton play for the Milwaukee Bucks because they are inept offensively when he is not on the court

and Janice is you know a tremendous basketball player obviously he was super inefficient yesterday and a lot of that is because he just can't create anything from the perimeter I think he took

eight jump shots and that's just like not gonna that's just not part of his game he took more jump shots than he took layups or dunks which is just like, that's just, if he's doing that, you have succeeded as a defense. And they need Chris Middleton's steady hand. They need him as a pick and roll playmaker. I thought like Joe Ingalls was doing some stuff, which was nice.

And it's just, it would be cool to see this team together. Yeah, it's great to see Joe. Looking better than I thought he ever would after that ACL injury. But I just want to see this team whole. I want to see how good their offense can be because right now they just look so far away from being the champion. championship contender that a lot of people believe that they can. The offense just isn't clicking right now. Yeah, and of course this game isn't indicative of the levels that the Bucks can reach

defensively when they are fully locked in and engaged. I think they're, you know, at the top of the league as far as defensive talent and, you know, ability to stop teams yesterday, notwithstanding. But yeah, in the half court especially, and I've said this for years, you know, pretty much ever since Janice got stonewalled against Kauai and the Toronto Raptors, the year that the Raptors won the championship ultimately, Janice isn't best served as a starter of possessions. Like, he's best at transition buckets and he's best as a finisher.

Somebody else should be initiating Buck's offense and Janice should be finishing those places. It's not that there won't be opportunities for him to take certain guys off the dribble or bully guys into the back of underneath the basket. Like there's ways to optimize him on the ball too, but the buck should not be starting offense with Janis dribbling 30 feet from the basket. That's just, that's a recipe for inefficiency and ultimately disaster. So, yeah, I'm with you on that. Middleton is so integral to them opening things up in the half court

because not just that he's a more than capable playmaker, it's like you said, he can do stuff from the mid-range, he can pull up from three, he just opens things up. The defense has to honor him in a way that pretty much nobody else on the team possesses that level of respect. And so, yeah, that was unfortunate,

but I think these two teams, when whole, are the class of the league, you know, and they're going to be there when it's all set and done. And again, it was nice to see Tatum get back to playing like an MVP, Boston. It's funny, man, all these years, especially since Brad Stevens got there, you noticed, Mike, this was a defensive team. Their identity, when they had it rolling, is that they were squeezing people to dust on defense with all their length and athleticism and execution. And now they might as well be the seven seconds of less sons. Like, these guys, when they look right, it's because they're humming on offense, which is, you know, it's been a slight adjustment for me because so many the characters haven't changed when you think about Tatum, Brown, and smart and Big Al.

But it's just different. Like the ecosystem under which these guys thrive is an offensive-based one, and that's cool to see. I want to move on to the last game of the evening, and that's the Nuggets and Sons, where, you know, ho-hum, sorry Justin Verrier, the guy that looks like he's probably, you know, up there for MVP, yo kid, just 40, 15 and 15. Just another day at the office. Casual. Casual.

Casual. Casual. Dude, I tell people this all the time. I really think in the clutch the best offensive player in the NBA is Nicola Yolkich. And I say that because he can give it to you, if you need a three, he can get it. Usually he can just get something at the rim.

Like how many players at the end of games in the half court can guarantee you a shot, a damn good one, within damn near seven feet of the basket, unless they send some crazy hard double, oh yeah, and by the way, I'm the best passer in the league too. So you don't want to do that. Like, to me, like, when you're trying to guard this dude in the highest leverage possessions,

I don't think there's anything scary. And, you know, they went to overtime. He had some clutch baskets. Of course, we can't overlook Aaron Gordon's ridiculous dunk. That was just, that was one of the plays of the season when you consider. Well, you're burying the lead, right? that we were going to start the pod with that dunk. That duck was...

It was crazy. It was totally insane. It was crazy. I've seen it. I've literally seen it about 30 times by now. And it just gets crazy and crazier. Every time I watch it, considering the circumstances, I think we kind of have an understanding of what the Nuggets do and who they are

and their defense is annoying me. But whatever, we still got 60-something-odd games. I know my math is wrong to figure this out. But what do you think about the Sons right now? The Sons. Oh, okay. I mean, Devin Booker obviously couldn't go. He went, what do he play like five minutes? And then the groin was acting up. And that's just a bummer. I love watching Devin Booker play. And he's having a tremendous season. I mean, I just think they're kind of headed in, if they can't get healthy, they're headed in the wrong direction, unfortunately. And from Jay Crowder's trade demand to Camden's. Johnson's injury to Devin Booker not being 100% healthy and he has this nagging groin hamstring injury to Chris Paul. You know, Chris Paul's had moments where he looks like vintage Chris Paul.

And he had an opportunity late in that overtime to knock down one of his signature pull-ups. I thought it was going to drop it. It didn't. But I don't know. Like it seems to me like the window might be shut or like I just don't. I don't want to say there's like a zero percent chance they can win the title this season, but with this current roster as good as some of the auxiliary pieces, like Landry Shamet has hit like 253s in the last, I mean, since I started that sentence.

He's just been absolutely on fire, and it hasn't really seemed to matter. They've had close losses, but bad losses. They had the loss against the Wizards at home. And it's like, I know who didn't play. I know it was on the second. night of a back-to-back. But like a game like that where Monty Williams is going at it with DeAndreate and Mikhail Bridges going out with DeAndreate.

And I just, I wonder what moves will be made before the trade deadline with this team. I'm going to keep my eye on them. But right now, I just don't, I like can't conceive them winning a championship going through four playoff rounds. That just seems very difficult for how they're, how they're made up and how they play. Yeah. I mean, they're supposed to be a win now championship. level kind of squad, but I don't know, for me personally coming into the season, I just didn't

like the vibes over there. Obviously, they ended up resigning Aiton to a massive deal, but the road by which they got there, they had to, was so, but it was so tortured and treacherous, right? And this is the team dynamics. You know, when you think about his relationship with guys like Paul, the coach, Booker, the comments that were made when their season ended last year. There's all of that going on. And that's before we even talk about the lingering Sarver stuff that was hanging over the team before the season started. Yeah, you look up and down this roster. This is a stud roster talent-wise.

But all of the things, I think there's just something to be said about, you know, just having the right mood in your building. Right? Like, yes, having players is of the utmost importance. But when you just have a coach and a player who is this consequential, is this frayed and it's leaking into the locker room, and then you compound that with all of these injuries, I just don't like Phoenix's situation right now. And it just feels like a morass, you know.

And I don't even think they can trade Aiton. They can't trade this dude for a year. They can't trade this dude until the off season because of how the extension stuff works. So it's like, how do you even rejigger this thing on the fly without moving somebody like Aiton? You're not going to move D. Book or Chris Paul. I think it'd be insane to try to make this better by getting McHale Bridges or Cam Johnson out of it. That's a non-starter to me. So what do they even do, Mike, to make this look better?

Because this just seems untenable. Maybe I'm crazy, but this doesn't feel right. So I think they can move Aiton on January 15th. I think he's eligible. But to your point, very difficult to move your franchise number one overall pick centers on a max contract who may not ever make an all-star team. I mean, he's very talented. And, you know, when he's at the mid-range jumper going,

he's incredibly difficult to guard. Too many fadeaways. Too many fadeaways will have his size, Mike. No, I mean, it's a. It's a fair point. But as the centerpiece of an offense, I just don't see it for him. And very young, but I just don't know what the market is. And then if you even want to tell me that there is a market, what are you getting back for

Aiton that can keep you as a title contender? I don't see that trade. So Jay Crowder is the piece. Jay Crowder and Picks and other contracts that you have in your roster. And I don't know who are you getting back that is incredible that's going to really be the difference maker. And who's even a seller right now in the marketplace? That's another question.

And we have a couple months here before the trade deadline and we'll see how it all shakes out. But Phoenix is super interesting in ways that I think their fan base should be concerned about. And they're definitely not moving on from Booker and CP's trade value. It's just like you're not trading Chris Paul and you're not trading McHale Bridges. So I don't know what they do. It's going to be really interesting to see, though. And right now, yeah, like I said earlier, they're just trending in the wrong direction

on both sides of the ball, it feels like. Also, Aitin and Kyla Murray playing in the same exact city, considering the stuff you hear about them and what they like to do in their spare time, that irony will just continues to crack me to fuck up. I'm sorry. Moving on to what was to me the third most, intriguing game of the day was the Sixers versus the Knicks, right?

The Knicks were on an eight-game winning street. They had a snap at the buzzer by DeMar de Rosen, the game before this. The Sixers, after having beaten the Knicks, have righted the ship and have won their eighth straight. I thought Hardin yesterday is basically, this is the top of what you can expect from James Harden these days. If he's getting to the line 11 times and he's playmaking to the degree that he did yesterday with 13 assists, this is the peak of it, right?

Like, this is hard in operating at his very best. They still don't have Maxie back, but I thought Embed was pretty freaking dominant yesterday. And they got a great win. And I think Christmas Day being what a lot of people call the unofficial, quote-unquote, start of the NBA. season. It's a benchmark. Right.

And I think the Sixers, they started off really shaky and it looked, whoa. But out of nowhere, man, these guys are 20 and 12. They're right there at the top of the east. Some people come, I'm not one of those people, but some people coming into the season felt like their offseason put them in a position to be on a playing field with the top teams in the league. I don't know. Like, I'm still not convinced of the Sixers.

I just hate the personalities involved. I refuse to believe that the disdain that clearly existed for Doc last season has just completely dissipated magically. I have no reason to believe that. But I'll be damned if they're not playing better. And, you know, shouts to Rob Mahoney, he said on group chat that Joe L&B. should be considered as an MVP candidate. God knows he's playing like one.

They beat the Knicks in a pretty nice wind yesterday. Where are you at with the Sixers at this point in the season? They're good. They have the second best defense in the league. They have the fourth highest net rating in the league. Obviously, the stars are really clicking right now. Joel, yeah, he looks like an MVP candidate. He's totally unstoppable.

When engaged on defense, he looks like a defensive player of the year. candidate as well. Hardin, this is like the best case scenario right now, this stretch of basketball that he's on, 13 assists, 29 points. The stepback threes are dropping. I think defensively he's like veering back into when clips of him would just go viral where it's just like he was glitching and a basketball game was happening around him, but he was not moving. That's what happened like 25 times in yesterday's game. But that's not the greatest concern, I suppose, for the Sixers at this point, just because of the other pieces who are around him on the defensive end to support him.

You have Shake Milton's playing great. Melton's playing great. George Nying's hitting shots. So I think that they, yesterday was a quality win against the Knicks, a Knicks team that was on, not a win streak, but had just come off a win streak, playing at MSG. I, you know, some of the, I think the Sixers are currently on an eight-game win streak themselves, and some of those wins, if not all of them, besides the next one, have not been super impressive. They're taking care of business, which is terrific.

But I guess like at the end of the day, when you look at some of the pieces, the main characters on this roster, like I can't get too up or two down about the Philadelphia 76ers until the playoffs begin. I want to see what Hardin looks like. I want to see what Embed looks like. I want to see them like really compete in a second round series and not fall on their face. That's so it's like I can't get too, two up or two down for them right now. I know that's not a sexy answer, but like they're playing great basketball right now.

So you've got to give it to them. All right. Yeah, look, I'm on, I'm showing me state with the Sixers. I'm not doing this. I'm not doing this with Joelle, constantly disappointing me in the postseason. The Doc Rivers part of all it is just bothers me. Hardens long, well-documented postseason shortcomings. Like, this guy's only older now.

Yeah. And then, you know, we did enough nuts and bolts, real basketball stuff. we got to get messy. Of course, reports surface yesterday. I think ESPN's Wolgenowski is the first to report this. James Hardin,

who is on a two-year deal, but has a player option. So essentially, he'll be a free agent this summer. He's quote-unquote strongly considering a return to Houston in free agency, Mike.

besides this being just juicy NBA gossip for 20 million reasons, but first and foremost of which being, bro, you forced yourself out of there less than two years ago. I know all of the things that have happened. You're on your third team since that trade request, but so many things have happened around the Harding thing. It's felt like 10 years, close to 10 years than 2. But, man, I read that report.

court, rumor, whatever you want to call it. And I just laugh to myself because I think it says everything you kind of need to know about James Hardin as a basketball player. Like his mindset about his profession and his job, all you need to know is that he wants to go back to the team that's tracking to be get the number one pick this year. They're awful. They're dog shit. And Hardin's talking about, yeah, yeah, I'm strongly considering going back there.

Go ahead, Mike. Just, I mean, the timing, I'll just start there. The timing was just very, very interesting to me. I didn't really understand why that report came out right before a Christmas Day game when... Just one thing I can say this about the timing. And I think people who listen to the show are kind of smart enough to understand this. Newsflash, listeners, NBA Free Agency does not start at midnight, okay? They don't, at midnight on July 1st, whenever the free agency starts,

agents and GMs and presidents of basketball ops don't start negotiating these deals when free agency, quote unquote, opens. That's not what happens, right? And so there's a dialogue happening throughout the year with other teams, with your own team. There is dialogue happening. I don't think we're breaking any news by saying that. I know the league allegedly has tampering rules. We know, but we're adults here.

We can acknowledge that there's a constant stream of dialogue happening. Go ahead, Mike. So that all said, I do believe that Hardin, first of all, I want to say, I think it's a very fluid situation, which has been reported. A lot can happen in the next however many months. That's how the NBA goes. I do think that if the Sixers lose in the first round, if the Sixers losing the second round, I think he's probably going to leave. Like, that's just, I don't think that there's any. First of all, Hardin is the master of the non-denial denial.

So he's asked about the report in the locker room before the game. And his first words are, you didn't even say Merry Christmas to me to the Philadelphia Inquirer, Ski, Pompeii. And he just, I didn't hear about the report. I don't know where you're talking about it. It's like, okay, but I'm telling you now what it is. So can you address it? He doesn't address it. We're playing great basketball now.

That's where my focus is on. So I don't, he's just a, the Tom Brady of the non-denial denial. I got to respect it. He's been doing it his entire career. So I do believe this report. I do believe he has interest in going back to the Uson Rockets. What is fascinating to me is the level of interest that the Rockets would have in this. And like you said, they are terrible.

They play a style of basketball that isn't really trying to win basketball games. If you watch the Rockets play, they just bum rush the offensive glass. Their number one in offensive rebounding rate, they are so bad in transition defense. It is like, I don't want to say like their strategy is designed, perfectly designed to tank, but it kind of is. And they have a chance as well as any other team at the end of the day to get Victor Wimbunyama in the lottery. They have all these picks from the Brooklyn Nets. They have enough cap space to sign Hardin to sign whoever they really want. They have a max slot this summer.

So it's just, it's really interesting to me. Like, would they, if Hardin has communicated to them that he wants to go back, would they sign Hardin, take some of their picks, some of their contracts? and go get another all-star. And maybe you keep a Jabari Smith, Jr., and you have Hardin, and you have whoever the pick is that you've already, that you're getting in this year's draft,

and you trade for Cat, or you trade for Pascal Seacum, or you trade for any other star who's going to spring free or want out, Jimmy Butler, any star who is just, in a situation that is tempestuous that could erupt over the next few months. Like, I could see that happening. It's not inconceivable.

But I just don't know if that's, like, the smartest route for. It would be the dumbest thing. It'd be the dumbest thing they could possibly. Like, bringing James Hardin back with Kevin Porter, with Jailing Green, as the two guys that they have pegged, allegedly, is the future of their backcourt, makes absolutely zero sense. Those guys would not be on the team. Both of them at least would not be on the team.

It can't happen. That's a one. Two, you know, if this was 2016 where, yeah, James Hardin and basically anybody is a playoff team, you give him any level of professional basketball rate level of shooting. You know, 34% threes.

You put three or four of those guys around him, guys who want to guard, people, that's going to the playoffs, right? James Hardin's that good in 2016. 2022, 2023, that is not the case. James Harden does not make you good in and of himself. He just doesn't. He's not that kind of player anymore.

I think it's been borne out the last two post seasons. He's not that guy. It's just not. So I don't even see what the point of this. He's not going to make you good. He's going to cramp the style of your young perimeter guys. What is the point of doing this if you're a huge, Can I play devil's advocate for a second?

So let's say they get Victor with Minyama. Would you want a sturdy veteran elite pick and roll playmaker to be on your team like James Hardin with Victor in the first few years of his career? Or would you want Victor to just plop into this, like I said, it's just not even really a functioning basketball team with Jalen Green and Kevin Porter. and it just being a total mess. Because I think, honestly, if you had Hardin, Wembenyama, and this is so high in the sky, like, it's technically possible, but just a lot of things. That's the point of this exercise.

Let's do it. Yeah. Let's go with it. If you get Wembenyama, Hardin, and you trade for All-Star X, any of the guys that I previously mentioned, that's a playoff team. Is it not? I don't know if that team can ever win the title.

And I shouldn't say ever, because Victor Wemianama just might be, like, the best player. alive in two years. We don't know. But that's like a really interesting, I don't know, not a foundation. It's just a, it's a trio. It's a really interesting trio. I'll say that. See, I disagree. And I think the counterpoint that I would make is what Golden State has experienced trying to do that very thing with their young guys. And I think we all assume that when Binyam is a much better player than James Wiseman. But I don't know why people,

people think next year he's going to be ready to be a net positive NBA big man on both ends of the floor like that's I don't know why we would expect that right so that's a one I think the difficulty of doing this win now and development thing I think it's foolhardy I don't think team should try it that's a one and two sorry bro if I draft victor Wimbunyama I don't need James Harden monopolizing all my damn possessions. I don't want that to be the first kind of NBA basketball that that dude learns how to play, specifically on offenses, watching James Harden dribble the goddamn air out of the basketball.

I don't see the point of that. And I get it. Jalen Green and Kevin Porter, Jr. already do that. But they're young. They're still a way for them to become different versions of themselves as Hoopers. That's not going to happen. with James Harden. He is who he is, and he's going to be that no matter what.

And by the way, the point of him going back to Houston, which we can get to why this is appealing to Hardin now, the point of him going back to Houston to my mind is so that he could just be who he wants, do what he wants, have no expectations, have nobody hold him accountable, as the Gen Ziers and Zoomers and some of my millennial cohorts would say so that he could live a soft life, Mike. James Harden wants to live that soft life.

He doesn't want pressure. He doesn't want expectation. He wants to be paid to show up and be whoever he wants to be and be left alone. And obviously, he's a goddamn deity in the city of Houston in that community. And so that's all he wants to go back and do. He don't want to have the sort of burdens that come with playing in the market like Philadelphia and having that media and that fan base expecting competence on the highest level from you day in and day out. He clearly doesn't want that.

And so, yeah, going back to Houston makes all the sense for that reason. Like, he could just go back and basically retire. You know, it's like, you know, old folks from New York moving down to Florida. That's basically what he's doing. And then on the other side of this, this is just great negotiation. tactics by him and his representation against the sixes. It's like, y'all know I got no problem

going back to Houston and basically having no expectations. Like, y'all know I'm that type of person. Y'all, y'all know I'll be good with just going back to Houston, making a ton of money and not having to lift a goddamn finger to do so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this makes all the sense for Hard. So leveraging, using that as leverage to get a

max contract from Philly, hey, guys, I'm super lazy. Pay me now, everything. or I will leave him be super lazy in Houston. Yeah, no, that's an interesting one. Look, I don't know. He could just, I will say, when he was in Brooklyn, he complained constantly about the weather. And I don't know if you saw his outfit at MSG yesterday,

but that man just like is not built for the cold. So it could just be very, very simple like that. I don't know. I have a lot of conspiracy theories about it. But it's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out. But I would just be really fascinated to see. One thing I'll say, keep your eye on. If the Houston Rockets keep Eric Gordon at the trade deadline, then something's cooking.

Something's cooking if they keep Eric Gordon. I'll just say that right there. We'll end right there. I love it. You heard of here first. Free agency has already started, guys. It is December 26. But that is our show for today.

I want to give a big shout out to Isaiah Blakely. My man, Ben Cruz, they produce this thing. They kill it for us. Week in and week out. My man, Michael Pina, man, taking a break from his family. This guy is dedicated to the craft. Taking time away from his family during the holidays to provide a pod for you all.

Shout to you, Mike. Thank you for coming on today. And make sure you keep it locked with the ring of feet throughout the holiday. Wish you guys all the best. Happy New Year. All that good stuff. We'll see you guys next time.

Thank you.