The Ringer NBA Show - Redraftapalooza: Reselecting the Top Five Picks of the Past Five Drafts | Group Chat

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

Justin, Rob, and Wos go through the past five years of the NBA draft and reselect the top five picks! 2020 (03:37) 2021 (18:32) 2022 (47:35) 2023 (65:40) 2024 (79:34) Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Eduardo Ocampo Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi everyone, it's Amy Polar, and I'm launching a new podcast called Good Hang. In preparation for that, I asked some of my friends to send in some videos and give me some advice. Just be yourself, and the guests will come. Don't be the celebrity that this is their like sixth thing they're doing. I love true crime and cooking podcasts. Is there any way you could combine the two? Well, everyone has an opinion and a podcast. So, join me for Good Hang. It's rough out there. We're just trying to lighten it up a little. of group chat. I am Justin Verrier

and joining me, as always, Rob Mahoney, Big Was. Guys, I think we had yesterday, on Wednesday, just a cornucopia of banter topics that just popped up over the NBA internets. Here's what I have on a list

that I've prepared for you today. NBA Centell, gone. And quite frankly, good riddance. Paul George quits podcasting to focus on his championship run. The Nets did a letterbox top four, which was premium content.

Love that. Speaking of the Nets, Killian Hayes, a starting point guard in the NBA, yet again. And yet we cannot talk about any of them or we can just very quickly because we have a lot to do today.

We do. And look, I don't want to be the traffic cop here, but somebody's got to keep us on time. And there's simply no room for banter because, Justin, you have proposed for us a massive redrafting project

in which we need to get through many, many picks and many, many draft classes. So, I mean, is there anything you want to say quickly about any of this stuff? Well, I have to say, like, I also grew a proper mustache and nobody recognized it last time on the pod, and I'm sorry,

I've been smarting ever since. The fans, the fans definitely did. Did they? Wads sees me as a fellow moustachioed fella. That's true. I recognized it. I kept getting mildly distracted, but I'm like, wait, just like, like,

It's still facial hair elsewhere, but the stash is prominent. I was kind of analyzing it. That's right. Guys, I was just saying we don't have time for banter. And it includes mustache banter. We got to keep it moving. No Cental, no letterbox, no Killian Hayes, no mustaches. We got to get into it.

All right. You're right. We are doing redraft a paloza. We are going through the past five drafts in the NBA. So 2020, all the way up to last year's draft, 2024. for we are going to re-select the top five picks in each of those drafts. And now you might be thinking, especially if you're Rob,

like, what does that mean? Does that mean that we're all going one by one by one? Rob basically almost had an aneurism. Tough scenes. We proposed this. But we're just going through basically the top five players of these previous drafts, just to recalibrate what we would think about

these crops of players based on current information. Well, at the risk of having another aneurysm, I would push back even on that. Because I don't think we are necessarily ranking the top five players, but the top five prospects, right? It's like, who would you, whose future would you invest in? Not necessarily who is the best right this second. Yeah, I looked at it from this point onward. And obviously, past results, factors into that, but it's all about looking to the future with a lot of these guys. And so let's start with 2020, a draft that frankly might have just a handful of options on the board here, because

What a wild time that was. I remember going into that draft. Prospects couldn't even work out for teams just because of COVID restrictions. Fortunately, I think they got the number one pick right there, Anthony Edwards. I assume all of you guys have him. Locked and loaded. Number one with a bullet.

It's not even a... I didn't even think anybody seriously challenged the notion for me. Nope. I think two and three could get a little spicy depending on how you guys are looking at it. Could they? I would say two, three and four. Wow.

Okay. Why? What do you have at two? I kind of went back and forth with this. But ultimately, I went with the numbers. I went with the sort of most malleable, it feels like, of the three. And I went with Tyrese Halliburton as my number two pick here. I understand he's had his ups and downs.

I understand that, you know, the defense has been a problem. It's probably going to be a problem his entire career. But at the end of the day, if you look at Tyrese Halliburton minutes on the floor, he's just constantly impacting winning. Like, there's no, every single empirical data point that you can pull up, this guy impacts winning when he's on the floor. As much as I may love, the next two guys, guys on my list. Halliburton is my

number two, but it didn't come without any trepidation. Yeah, not a shocker that I also have Tyrese Halliburton number two. But Justin, as the foremost Tyrese Halliburton skeptic, could you bring yourself to put him at number two?

Man, am I am I the biggest hater? The biggest Halliburton? I think generally speaking biggest hater, but certainly of Tyrese Halliburton. That's hurtful. I just have opinions. I did not put him at two. I went lamella ball.

Because here's what I'm thinking. If you had just switched those guys right now, are the Pacers worse? I know that like ball basically plays in a big top over there in Charlotte where he's taking like 12 threes of games at this point. He's doing the whole thing like almost like the laxadaisical lazy man's three where he's not even like moving his feet at this point. But I think he's an incredible playmaker just like Halliburne,

a good shooter, even though the percentages aren't good this year. It's a lot of like, it's pretty similar. sort of offensive engines, I kind of like La Mello Ball is more of like his reeds and just as an athlete. So I would go ball at too. Wow. I mean, this is where you've boxed me in because as you know,

I am a Lamella Ball defender. And so I can't bring it, I can't, I don't have the constitution to really pick apart the playmaking aspects of his game. But I do think Tyrus Halliburton at this stage in his career is just a fundamentally more serious basketball player. And the ups that Waz was describing and the

ups and downs that Halliburon has gone through, are so substantial, right? This is good, productive winning results from what Tyrese Halliburton has done so far. And so honestly, I understand it. Like, I see the vision with Lamello. He's clearly my number three. I don't know where you landed on Lamello was.

But it was very interesting to me, Justin, that we were just in a top 100 meeting the other day debating the finer point specifically of Lamello versus Tyrese Maxi, who that to me is the three-four debate here. I have Tyrese Hallibut number two, Lamello number three. Maxi number four. Was, where did you net at on those?

So I ended up going Maxi 3 and Lamello 4. And again, I can understand Lamello over Halliburts, specifically because they kind of play more similarly in terms of like they both want to get up and down. They both basically only want to shoot threes. Like they're not going to do this like sort of pull up to whatever. Both of them try to get into their floater game. So it's either threes or floater games.

Neither one of them are just getting to the cup and finishing oversized. That's not a thing that either one of those guys tend to do. So there's like a lot of similarities. But like Rob, I just think Halliburton is a more sound decision maker, particularly in the half court. Whereas, and, you know, and I think Lamello, like, physically he's a bigger player. So there's like this potential that he could one day be a more imposing kind of defender. I have a hard time believing this guy's. ever going to become some ace, like, cares about defense for real on a possession-to-possession

basis kind of guy. And that's why I ultimately dinged him and put Maxie ahead of him because, and people could say it's all its recent bias, whatever, but, like, Maxi was a dominant playoff player at times last year. Like, I've seen him against playoff defenses, put in dominant fourth quarter clutch, down-to-stretch performances in a way that I just highly value in terms of having seen him do that, whereas La Mello Ball is like, you know, telling dick jokes after

post-game interviews. Like, I can't I just, to me, I just had to dig him for that, just for the lack of resume. For the dick jokes? No, no, no, no, no, come on. Now, of course not. No, no one of why he's a bigger dick joke promoter than me. Enthusious, yeah. Enthusius.

Yeah. Enthusius. Yeah, aficionado, if you will. I just think the lack of resume in terms of serious basketball. Even when you get down to playing in the goddamn Australian League or New Zealand, wherever the hell he was

before he got to the NBA, right? I just think he's never played in any serious hoop games. And so I just, you know, got a mat four for that. Waz, when you described yourself just now as a dick joke aficionado, it awakened a memory in me. Did you guys happen to see Austin

Reeves on the podium? I believe it was Dave McMeneman posed a question to him, including the word officiantado, Austin Reeves blanched at it and got a little educational lesson in the middle of the press conference as to what an aficionado was. We're out here educating the youth.

I love that. Yeah. So I have Maxi fourth. I think Rob you probably would as well, right? Maxi's an interesting case, and I also think a lot of this is recency bias, where if we had done this maybe going into the season, maybe you would have looked at things a little bit

differently. I just, I love Maxi, he's a bullet. I compared him to moving around the court, almost like an electric car where he just kind of hovers around. He gets from end to end so quickly. And his shooting just keeps getting more diverse. I would say it almost feels like each season

is a challenge to himself to take more of a step back and to take more threes. The percentages are obviously down. I think the question is, is Maxi ultimately the guy you put around your guy rather than being the guy? I think that both Lamele and and Halliburton have proven to be like the go-to offense vengeance for their teams.

I think Maxi has shown this year and it's not like I don't want to ding him because he's still a very good player. It just feels like he needs an MB to play off of in order to be his best version. It does make sense. And that's not like that's not taking anything away from him or his game. And I think it's where the Lamello debate specifically gets so interesting. Because we may get into Lamello's career deep into his prime and say he can kind of only play as the guy with the ball in his hands,

he has some off-ball skill, he certainly can spot up for threes, like he cuts, he rebounds, he does some other things, but ultimately, Lamello is going to be the guy driving a lot of stuff. And if he is that kind of player,

but for teams that never go anywhere, what is that worth relative to Tyrese who could end up as a really high-end number two option, who if we're debating Halliburton versus Lamello versus Maxi, Maxi's probably the best half-court player of those three

because he can play off of other stars so well. And so, like, I really value, that kind of skill set. I really value the guys who have games that are amenable to playing alongside other high-level players. I just think Halliburton is kind of the best-case version of that because he enables

those other high-level players as much as playing off of them. And Lamello's ceiling is so much higher, I think, than Maxis is what concerns me with Maxie is some of what we've seen this year, which is if he doesn't have those stars to playoff of, all of the scoring that he's able to produce, all of that speed,

all of that skill just doesn't lift your team anywhere. And I'm open to that argument for Lamello as well, but for Maxi, I feel like it's kind of front and center with his game right now. Yeah, and Maxie, the team was not built for Maxi to take the reins as a soloist this season, right? He's kind of been thrust into this situation with ill-fitting pieces. I think if a team was like, look, we want to optimize what Maxi does in terms of

the caliber of the type and style of players that we put. around him, I think you'd see a better outcome than what we saw this year, where it's just like, look, we know it was supposed to be Joel and Paul George sort of, you know, easening the burden. But, like, that's not what happened. And I think his efficiency has suffered for that. But for me, again, I think Maxie just with the experience, his ability to just get by anybody. So I don't care if you got to set half-court defense or not.

Like, this guy's going to get downhill on you. And if you try to go on the screens, this guy will murder you from three. I just, I love the guy. And, yeah, it's just Lamello, I get the tools. I get the production that he's had this season. But like Justin said, if this were October, I don't think Lamello would be number two or three or on any of our lists. It's an interesting comparison between Lamello and Maxi,

because on the one hand, Maxie defensively, can only get to a certain ceiling because he's just so small. like 6-2, maybe 200 pounds at this point. Lamello probably won't get to his defensive ceiling for other reasons, more personal reasons. And so it's like, do you want the guy who's going to probably try his ass off but isn't physically as imposing, or do you want a guy like Lamello who just probably will never get it?

But it's so tantalizing that you probably want to take the pull no matter what. Also, with all due respect to Tyrese Maxie, will he try his ass off defensively? Like, he's not exactly a demon out there. He hasn't been. Yeah, maybe if he isn't playing 40 minutes a game is literally fair. That's a player on the court.

Counterpoint, though, you work for Nick Nurse and you play for Nick Nurse right now. You're going to play a lot of minutes if you're Tyrese so that's his reality, like it or not. He can just hope that Paul George and Joel Embed are healthier going forward in a way that can alleviate some of that pressure. Joel and Bid currently

like scrounging through Europe, looking for doctors to just give him just breakthrough surgeries. That shit is dark. But number five is interesting. I considered five to six players here. I ultimately went Desmond Bain though. Yeah, I did not consider anybody else. Yeah, it's disrespectful to not pencil in Desmond Bain.

I like Desmond Bain. He just leaves me a little cold. I'm going to be honest. Maybe it's more of a me thing. I have on this list, Denny Avdia. Of course. Okay, stop. Just stop.

Janine McDaniels. Anyaka, Congu. Emmanuel quickly, Devin Vesel. It drops off pretty quickly. But I think McDaniels and Obdia are in the mix. No, they are not. I think Daniels... No, they are not.

I can understand somebody saying, look, Daniels, as a huge wing, really good defender, occasional shotmaker, like, that's a valuable thing on a real team in terms of, like, Daniels, like, pick the top four in both conferences. They could both easily use this guy.

They'd be getting 25, 26 minutes on the top 14 in both conferences, right? Like, that's an important kind of player to have. But, like, Bain makes shots, can dribble the rock. It's a good case. Valuable skill set, it turns out. Yeah, I didn't consider those other guys at all. I think it's Bain. Like, I mean, we just talked about it with Maxie, too.

the scores who can play with other scores and who can kind of accommodate that and flex their game in and out both inside and out, in usage, transition half court. Bain is so versatile in terms of the kinds of shots he can create and make

that I think he's the only pick here at five. I think he's really good number three options. And he's willing to start fights with people every other game. I love that. Sure. Yeah. What has Dave?

Did he do Neobdi? He's got big guns. You could put them on just like a calendar if you want to go through every player and give them a month. Fundraising is important. A real beef cake out there. Put them in a fireman helmet.

It's coming up with a million-dollar ideas. Yeah. Did you guys, do you have any short list of guys beyond maybe who I mentioned? I think you went through it. Like Vassell quickly and McDaniels are the three that jump out to me as being sort of the honorable mentions. It's also the kind of draft where you have to at least mention James Wiseman at two, Pat Williams at four. The specters of those picks. are just, they loom so large.

And Desmond Bain, I want to say not only is he a great player, but so many teams blew it on Desmond Bain, who went 30th in this draft. Like, basically everyone had a crack at getting a player that good who every kind of team could use. And shout out to the Grizzlies who have always historically, at least in the recent

history, scouted very, very well, and managed to bring in guys exactly like Bain, develop them well, give them opportunities. It's really worked out for him and them. I'm not telling anyone anything they don't know when I say that James Weisman has been a major disappointment. But that might be the one thing in NBA history over the past, what is it now, five to ten years,

where it's like if that had gone differently, had they had drafted Lamello or Halliburn or somebody else, like it changes the course of NBA history. It's like the pebble and the pond with the ripple effects just go so far beyond. It's wild. Or is it like a butterfly like dying in the woods in the jungle or something? I don't know how one. A butterfly dying. Oh, but like a butterfly effect kind of thing.

Butterfly effect. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Don't kill butterflies. If you're out there, don't step on them. Don't do. What does a butterfly do?

It flats sits wings and we get nuclear war. That's basically it. Yeah. Did you see Robb trying to work around the fact that Deni Abdiah is now a top 100 player in the NBA? I put him on my ballot. You're goddamn right. You did. I put him on my ballot.

Would he be the top five in the 2020 draft? No, he would not. He absolutely would. like 33% from three. Maybe. This is still a good player. All right. Let's flip to 2021 now.

This is where it gets really interesting. Especially considering recent results. Pistons are on fire right now. Kate Cunningham also vaulting up our top 100 list, which you could look at at the ringer.com. Hopefully today had some technical issues, but hopefully you can check that out after you listen to this pot here. We probably redraft the top five of this draft.

every couple months. I'll be on the podcast three times the season already. Am I crazy? I would do it every week at this point. This is the most redraftable draft. Yes. It's just because they're all very good players

in their own right, but they're not so good and so far away. There's no Wemby type of player where there's a clear cut one or even two or even three. There's just like, there's so much depth to this draft class which also gets lost in the mix

because the top is so prominent and good. Like Aaron Wiggins is in the same. trap. That's just like a really good player. Everybody would want to have. Like, Austin Reeves didn't get drafted in this trap. That's a very good player who apparently is learning new things about vocabulary in addition to NBA basketball on the fly. But I think last time we did this, I think I had

Scotty Barnes one. I do not have him number one now. Was, who do you have at the top of your board? Cade Cunningham. It's not even close. Not even close. No. I think it's close. Not even close. It's not even close for me. Because at the end of the day, as much as I love Evan Mobley, you have to have the ball in your hands. And this guy, yes, you do. It's the most important thing.

Like, if, like, put it like this. Evan Mobley could become the greatest version of himself that we envision for this kid. If they don't have something elite on the perimeter, it doesn't matter. It just straight up doesn't matter. And the things that Mobley will become elite at, you can try to put it together piecemeal via other parts of your roster. So to me, creation, playmaking,

efficient one-on-one scoring, all in one package, to me, that's always just going to be more valuable. Yes, even more so than an all-world defender, rim protector, switchable. I get it. It's a beautiful piece to have. But you got the name of the game is freaking who scores the most points, man. And you need, offense is just more valuable than defense.

Like, there's just no two ways about it. I know we want to be, like, all high and mighty. And, oh, we believe in both sides of the ball. And we want to reward the hard workers. I feel it. I have those instincts. But Cade, man, he's showing you. He's a primo dynamite creator.

And to me, I put that over every other. sort of NBA skill set. I agree on the value of that skill set. I think where I disagree a little bit. Look, this is me making the argument. I love Kate Cunningham. He's a really good player. He's number two on my list right behind.

Eight in a row, just smoke the Celtics, okay? Absolutely smoked those guys. The Pistons are an average offense. And he is that average offense. He doesn't have a ton of help. Granted, if you gave him more help, gave him other creators to play alongside him, if Jaden Ivy had been healthy all season,

maybe some of those things look differently. But in his role, which is a high usage role, he's one of the least efficient 20 plus point scorers in the league. And as far as the guy's getting up shots, he does not get to the rim very consistently. He does not draw fouls at the level that the best scorers do. He creates a lot of threes, which helps boost the team's efficiency overall.

But it's like, I think that's where I bump up against the wall a little bit. If this was a Nikola Yokic-level shot creator, Luca Donchich-level shot, let's say top-10 player in the least, level shot creator, then I'm like, okay, that level of that skill set is just about the most valuable thing you can have. Being a pretty good to very good creator on a team that is a league average offense is persuasive to me, but not as persuasive to me as what might be the defensive player of the year in Evan Mowb now that Wembe is out of the race, a game-changing defender under any

circumstances, and a guy who's basically averaging 20 a game while not having the ball, while learning how to kind of bridge the force and finesse in how he plays. So we should be transparent here that I believe Saturday, this most recent Saturday, at like 9 o'clock a.m., Rob sent us a sizzle reel of Evan Mobley's offense. I was just eating my cereal out of the ball, like watching cartoons, and Rob's like, look at this, motherfuckers!

I just wanted you to have some entertainment. I wanted to bring you into my world at 9 a.m. on Saturday morning. I have to be honest, though, it was pretty compelling. Not only just like watching Mobley face up guys and just like get around them like he's a wing score, but also just watching him power through guys this season has been pretty goddamn impressive. He's freezing guys just with like just jolting them back like he's on the offensive line at this point. And so I have Mobley as well at number one for all the reasons you guys laid up. It just made enough progress offensively that like I do wonder if he was on a different team where he was a little bit more prioritized.

Can he score like 25 and 10 and just be a little bit more than he was? If he had the statistical production that I think is, uh, draws a little bit more attention, like would he be on a bigger stage than he is right now, just kind of doing all the dirty work defensively. And then obviously defensively he's an absolute menace. Um, I disagree slightly with Cade though. I, I hear you when you're saying like, oh, he's not a Luca level creator,

but he's like one of the best guys. Yeah. Like he's, he's, it's 20 and 10 at this point, which is like, yeah, somehow become. diminished at a certain point. But I just think he's been

very good. And we should talk about the Pistons overall. We were talking about the Celtics game and how they blew them out. And I turned that game on in the second quarter and they were winning. And I think the biggest... They did come back, but I think the biggest testament to what the Pistons have done this season

is that I wasn't surprised that the Pistons were up in that game. They've completely changed who they were. This is a team that lost the most games in NBA history last season. They've completely turned things around. I mean, they're fun. They're rock solid. They are a playoff caliber team through and through.

And it is Kate's playmaking that gets them there. I don't want to diminish what he's doing because, again, he is clearly, if not one, then two. For me, it's just like if we're comparing the highest level defensive play against the highest level offensive play. I don't know that he's quite meeting that threshold for the highest level offensive play.

I think he's really good, but there's a reason he's kind of among the lesser all-stars who are making the team and not the first guys on the list with a bullet. Yeah, I think, look, I think Cade, and, you know, I might have been a little bit effusive in his offensive, especially creating his own shot. I don't think he's where he's ultimately going to be. I'm just saying this year, he's shown an ability to attack one-on-one that people kind of questioned whether he even had. And now, again, another thing he's improving upon is just his looking for his shot coming off of the pick and roll.

Like, I think in the past, it was more of looking for that past. But now he's looking for the shot, getting guys, you know, sort of in jail, putting him on his hip. He's just so – and I, again, I do think I'm projecting a bit in terms of – I think he's going to ultimately get to being, like, a really efficient offensive score. He's not there yet in terms of the peak efficiency. I just think, man, going into this season that I did it, this team would be average or above – average on offense. I don't think any of us could have predicted. You know, I mean, granted, they won like 14 games last year. At one point, lost 30 in a row. I think it's, I just think it's been amazing the turnaround. I think it's so obviously driven by this guy having the ball

all the freaking time. And so for me, yeah, like I said, as the teammates get better, as the context get better, as the management has a better feel for what exactly you need around, I was about to say Luca, but Luca's the person that I think of. Yeah. Not just in terms of his style, but like Dallas kind of, like trial and error of the kinds of guys we want to.

Do we want a guy that handles the ball a lot? Or should Luca just be the heliocentric. Does he need the defensive-minded big or should we have a Moxie Kleber type? Like them sort of figuring out how to optimize Luca the best and they coalescing last year and like, look, he has a breaking Kyrie on ball handling, and the rest of it is just defensive craziness.

You know, I wonder if Detroit will figure out how to fully optimize Cade's individual talents and how that might, you know, impact his impact. I think they will. And we're already seeing them try new things, evolve, finally get some real spacing around him. It's not amazing. But Cade has basically turned Malik Beasley into a flamethrer.

I think they are the single most prolific. Yeah, I wanted to talk to you about Malik. League Beasley today. That's all I'm willing to say about him at this time. He's like their second best player right now. It's honestly insane. An incredible turn of events from Malik Beasley, who I have been highly skeptical of over the years.

Cade to Malik Beasley is the most prolific three-point combination in the league. The entire league. This is a tough week for you. You had Rui Hachamura just playing on another level. I don't know. I don't know why you think the Rui thing is new. And you were down on Rui. I was down on the trade when the Lakers made it,

but he's proven since he's been a Laker that he's a real player. Like, that's what happens sometimes. I wish we had to, we could just like go back on the tape like we were doing the Gruden Grinder sort of things. Like, could we show Rob talking about Rory Hachamura and the playoffs in 2020, please?

Yeah. What are you seeing here, Rob? That he's not a Nicola Yokic stopper. That was my contention both then and now. So we need to chat GBT for our previous take. We do not. We don't support that. Gemini.

Absolutely not. One thing to flag on Cade, again, not to discredit anything that he's doing. He has a level of injury risk that Evan Mobley historically to this point is not. This is a lot of games. Basically, the first healthy season of Cade Cunningham's career, and we may look at that as a Steph Curry-like blip at the beginning, and then he takes off once he's finally able to be consistently healthy, or it could be the kind of thing that dogs him for a long time.

I really hope it's more the former. All right. So we both have, or all of us have Mobley or Cunningham, one and two. What was? What do you have at number three? This wasn't really that hard for me, to be honest. I've turned around on this kid.

It's Franz Wagner. He's my number three. I think the shot coming back or coming around or whatever we're calling what's happened to the shot this year that has been very encouraging. It sucked that he had to miss that big chunk with the injuries, but like he looks like a freaking menace. You can't stop this guy from going downhill.

He plays his ass off on defense. I don't think there's any question about that. Not afraid to fly in there to grab some rebs as well. I just think... Rebs? I don't know why, but I love rebs. Why are we calling him rebs all the time? I don't know.

Something used to say when I was way, way, way younger, But it just came to me, the rebs. He's not afraid to get his nose dirty, you know, cleaning the glass. I just think he's an all-around player who doesn't possess, like, some great weakness. Like, you can give him the rock. He can dribble the rock, right? Like, the threes, again, it bears mentioning the magic. We're building a goddamn project, okay?

I'm talking about government housing in the freaking playoffs, all right? It was horrible what these guys were doing. But France, this year, it's respectable. You know, nobody was asking this guy to be freaking Reggie Miller out there. But it's respectable. And you combine that with his relentless, you know, rim attacks. To me, he's my guy. The three has been patchy.

Like, it is respectable sometimes. He's hit some big ones, some big shots over the course of Orlando season. People got to guard them. I think they do. And I think where I, where I, I'm struggling with his shot a little bit, and I love Franz's game. I also have him number three. Admittedly, three to four to me is really splitting hairs.

There's two guys who are here, I think are very, very close. I lean Franz a little bit, in part because, look, one of the times we did this exercise was in the middle of the magic winning a ton of games in, like, December, when Franz was the clear number one guy when Powell Bancaro was out of the lineup. And he looked very comfortable doing exactly that thing. And ultimately, I think he's going to get to the place where he's comfortable. doing that. He's comfortable playing off of Palo and picking his spots. You already see those elements

of his game. He's great in transition. He's great in driving as Waz laid out. The shot is a bit of a wild card, and he's had some down months recently that are discouraging, given the way he started. But ultimately, I still think he is not a bad shooter. And I think it is going to...

I do think it's going to course correct over time. I know the percentages aren't quite there. I know it's clearly there's a confidence thing with him where he's just going through these ruts and having trouble kind of climbing his way out of them. But the playmaking is what it is. The relentlessness to the rim is what it is. That's really hard to get. And he's a player who just has a great feel and understands kind of how he fits into things. Yeah. When we last did this, I think I also had him below Scotty Barnes, who I assume is who

you guys have at number four. And part of that was just because it was so new. And he really, the magic didn't have anything one else to turn to at that point. Paula was out. And so he was having a great moment. I was worried how much of that was going to continue, especially once Apollo was back in there. The fact that he's the one who has acquitted himself, Apollo has just not gotten right. I don't know if there were obliques or like one was just worse than the other, the injuries that they both had. But Franz has been able to rise above the Mosh pit that is the Orlando Magic offense in a way that Paulo has night. And so I got to give him credit for that. He's a big, strong guy who's like shown another level of playmaking this year.

I think if you wanted to lean Barnes though, which in the past I have is because of that playmaking. He's just like an excellent passer. for his size. My thing with Barnes was going into this season, who I have number four, as I mentioned, I was hoping he could be more of a shotmaker. And I don't want to just like completely rest everything. I think he was hoping he could be more of a shopmaker, Justin.

I don't want to rest everything on a three-point shot, but that's just such a huge thing for his development because it's obviously going to filter in to everything else that he does. And also like it really just calibrates like what he can be on offense for your team. Can he be a number one? and if he's going to be your go-to ball handler, like our team's going to respect that, are they not going to just, like,

crash the pay and make things all difficult for all these other guys you're trying to bring in there? So I ultimately went Wagner 3, Barnes 4. Rob, where are you? I'm the same. Was, what are you thinking at 4? Yeah, so I reluctantly put Scotty Barnes there.

And that's because I don't, I think Scotty Barnes is going to be a reluctant to. I think he's somebody who sees himself as an offensive engine, as a give me the ball for the lion's share of the possessions kind of guy. And I don't think his team will ultimately be served by that. And so that's why I'm like, man, like, obviously he's shown more than the next two guys that I had, you know, in the mix for this. I think he's shown more a little bit more than. But then one in particular.

But in terms of who I like and who I'm like, look, this guy is a clear number two and he's going to become an elite level number two. I don't know that Scotty Barnes possesses that. I don't know if that's in his mind frame yet. Maybe one day he'll wake up. Maybe Toronto will one day acquire a guy who's so clearly number one that Scotty Barnes who have to get his, you know, his act in order, right? but as it stands right now,

he can make the argument that he's the best player on the team and so therefore he should be controlling a lion's share of the possessions. Yeah, I mean, he is the best player on the team. And even though they have some diversified playmaking, it's going to get even more complex when they start incorporating Ingram next season.

Ultimately, he does feel like he's pressing a little bit. The Raptors are also a team where he should be pressing a little bit and figure out what he can and can't do, find those limitations. I think there's costs for that for a play. like Barnes in terms of the efficiency, like he isn't naturally a shot creator in the way that some of these

other guys are. And Franz has had to learn some of those elements too. Like it's not, he's not the most natural like pound the rock create a step back jumper kind of player. He's had to sort of find that part of his game. The Barnes versus Franz debate though to me is so much about like Scotty has this nebulous

like lump of clay potential. He can do so many different things theoretically. You see flashes of them. And yet when you're practically thinking about where do you actually put this guy on the court? What kinds of players do you surround him with? What kind of role do you want him to play? Those are more complicated questions. And I think there's a clarity with Franz that I lean towards a little bit. That clarity may trade off on potential. Like Scotty Barnes ultimately may have a higher ceiling if you get everything

exactly right. I just don't know how to get everything exactly right with him. And so I lean Franz a little bit while still not so reluctantly putting Scotty at four. I think he's had a pretty good season amid a very weird Raptors campaign overall. I think his defense has been a lot sharper. I'm still very impressed by Scotty Bards. I just lean Franz a little bit. Yeah. Scotty sparks the imagination in a way that a guy like Franz probably doesn't at this point, which honestly is a little bit to his credit because he's clarified who he is as a player right now. Yeah. Five is interesting. I think you could go a lot of different ways here. Rob, who do you have? Alper and Shangoon.

Okay. I wasn't expecting that. No, he's in the mix, for sure. I just, I wasn't expecting that. It's not spicy at all. I actually have Shangoon, but it's technically for me, it's on a technicality.

And to be honest with you guys, what is the technicality? I wanted to put Jalen Johnson above him and Scotty Barnes. Okay. You can. He just does not play. He's missed so. many freaking games the last two years. If this guy would have played, call it 68 games the last two

years, he's my, he's absolutely my number four here, for sure. But because of the injuries, man, and it's just been every single season of his career so far. Like, it's been major injury after major injury. I don't. But like, had this guy been healthy, I'm putting them over Barnes. I'm putting him over Shangoon. I just think for me and my mind's eye, he is that perfect number two. He will protect your paint when needed. He will be a vertical spacing.

Like as much as we love Scotty Barnes, he's not a vertical spacer. He's not a threat for the lobs. The guy has touch. The guy has feel. The guy has, you know, a playmaking ability. He's not afraid to get his driving game going. He has a high motor.

I mean, we've talked about Jalen Johnson in the past on the pod. Like, he's just freaking potential personified. But to be fair to Scotty and Shangoon, these guys have just put it on the floor, man, consistently. Basically, since the day they got put on the court, these guys have, especially rookie seasons, they overachieve, like, hell those two. And to now, you know, both guys, max contract guys and deserving of it, you know, they made

my list, but God, I wanted to put Jalen Johnson in there. so badly. I feel like Shingoon might be a little underrated at this point. I think you're right. Just the track record that he has kind of done it for at least three seasons at this point. And the big thing is just the fact

that he's become credible defensively, maybe even beyond that this season is just a credit to like his progress. I didn't think he added in them. Obviously, I think Adoka just switching up like how they're using him defensively have certainly played to his strengths. I always thought he was going to be the type of guy

who's smart enough and just had like good enough hands that he can contribute enough so that the hounding defenders that they have on the perimeter would do most of the work. I think Shangoon has been pretty good, pretty solid, and that's just like another level that he just unlocked.

I almost wonder like what else does he have? Like, can he get a three ball into the mix into all the other stuff that he's doing? And then does that open up stuff for him more as kind of like a rim pusher and whatnot? Like there could be another level to his game. And so for that reason, I certainly consider him at five. I ultimately went Johnson for

all the reasons was outlined, but Shangoon has been damn good this year. Yeah, I think as far as the Johnson comp, Schengun is 1911 and 5 right now. He is much more the reason that Houston's half-court defense is credible and passable than he is what's holding them back from not being elite and not contending at the highest levels.

Like, he's what's getting their heads above water on a lot of these possessions, and just in terms of the way that offense functions. So I give him a ton of credit for making the most of a pretty functional, team that has some pretty weird spacing and some odd lineups at times because that's what their personnel is. And Shangoon can thrive even in those circumstances. I think the one thing I'm a little worried about with him this year, and it's probably just kind of a fluky down thing for him, is he's been

a little less consistent on the weird drives that he has and the little like in between shots. That's kind of been the bread and butter of his game. And he's just not hitting them as consistently as he has in the past. And so there's there is a dip that comes with that in terms of the efficiency, but he's an important playmaker. He's structurally crucial to the way the Rockets play. And Justin, as you kind of laid out, I put myself in the camp that thinks of him as more than credible defensively.

I think he's really stepped up on that end and has become like an active contributor to one of the better defenses in the league. I think if you were to build a team, though, is where I ultimately lean Johnson, where it's like Shengun, I still have the problem of like, if I'm building around

Shengun, do I have to actually build around him? Can I like use him to augment what I actually have. Whereas, like, if you were to flip the spots, like Jalen Johnson would fit into what Houston is doing, is Shengoon and Trey Young going to really get me very far? I just don't know. And so Johnson is just like

the prototypical power forward with wing level athleticism who, in his own right, is a really good pastor and creator. So that's why I went Johnson. The list is long as hell. Get at him, Houston, Twitter. Because y'all are some of the Savage on Twitter. Get at this guy.

Please. I have Jalen Suggs also in the mix who somehow his value is increasing as he just continues the nurses injury. They need him so bad. Trey Murphy. Josh, Giddy. Have you guys seen Josh Giddy this year? He's not in my mix.

He's not in my mix. He's not in my mix. Jalen Green is in my mix. That now was. Now he's just appealing to the Houston fan base. There you go. He's in my mix. He wasn't going to be my number five, but he's a credible mix guy.

You got to think about it. It's post-all-star. He's playing well yet again. It's true. Justin, I would like to hear this revised Josh Giddy take. What do you have for us? Thank you for saving me. I think if Josh Giddy was drafted 16th as opposed to 6th, we looked at him completely different.

I think all of the reasons people don't like Giddy are the expectations thrust upon him and how much you have to pay him because he was set at a certain amount and thus you don't go down from there, especially after you trade for him if you're the Bulls. I think if he was like an undrafted guy, if he was like a European guy, you're like, oh, this power forward passes like a point guard and now he's actually hitting his threes. He just does so many in between things that I like. But like, you're not going to rely on him for anything. As soon as you're relying on Giddy to do anything, as soon as you're relying on Giddy to do a point guard. And now he's actually hitting his threes. He just does so many things. He just does so many. He's just anything, then it becomes a disappointment. But, like, he's helpful as all hell. This is where your argument falls apart. It's because Alper and Shangoon was the 16th pick, and he's more than helpful as all hell. He's an actual player who you do rely on. So granted, the Eurocom stance,

but guys in the mid-in-the-mid first round of the lottery, late lottery, do sometimes distinguish themselves in that way. I just think Giddy got moved by O'KC, who notoriously is obsessed with their own freaking farts when it comes to draft picks. They moved him because they were like, we do not have, we don't have a use for you. You need to have the ball in your hands. We can't optimize you.

We have two guys who are clearly way better with the ball in their hands. We got to move you. The bowls are like, look, we'll change your context, let you have the ball space big, you know, spacing kind of bigs. And then what happens? He thrived. Has he? In a very bad environment where they are tough to watch right now.

I don't know that anyone in Chicago is necessarily thriving. He's thrived. He's had his moments. But Giddy was not in your mix. He's good. But was he in your mix? In my mix for like the top five? Yeah.

Did you actually think about it? No, no. I think he's more in like the top. Thank Christ. 10 to 15. I'm sure. He's in the top. top 10?

This is a pretty deep draft class, honestly. He's not in the top 10. He might not be in the top 10. Yeah. And not in the top 10. Top 15. Yeah. Because Herb Jones, I, I overlooked.

Herb Jones. You mentioned Austin Reeves up top who went out drafted. Yeah. Austin Reeves. Come on. Aaron Wiggins? I mean, I'd rather giddy than Wiggins. Although Wiggins is obviously a better role player.

You rather Giddy Nicky Naminga? Yeah. Yeah. That's an interesting one. No. Absolutely. not. Absolutely I think they're actually

Remember getting doesn't guard anybody either and he doesn't try to Johnth and Kaminga thinks that he's Kobe Bryant and he's actually Sean Kent. Not great. Look, if he was

Sean Camp that would really be something. So another thing I want to say about this draft, it's super deep. All the guys we just mentioned some other guys, Santi Aldama Sam Houser Deuce McBride

Tray Man Like these are like Jay Huff like these are useful NBA players Alvarado Full Court Fitz-Alump Davion Mitchell What I do want to say about this

draft class is I think that like In fans' minds eye When their team gets a draft pick they think they're going into a draft that's as deep as this. Yeah. That's what they think is going to happen.

When the truth of the matter is, you usually get one-third of this amount of legitimate NBA players in a given first round draft. These guys are all going to be second. These guys are all going to play in the league eight to ten years. There are good actual players

in the 40s and 50s in this draft. Like Aaron Wiggins is a great example, but not just him, but like Nimas Kita, like Jared Butler, Delano Bann. These are not necessarily high-level role players

through and through, but guys who you would not mind having on your roster. Isaiah Jackson is a good player who unfortunately, like James Wiseman, is hurt. Like, Pacers' big men

cannot catch a break, but there's a lot of good stuff here. Quentin Grimes! This is a hell of a draft. That's right. I'm going to be honest, if you told me on my team, I could have either

Josh Giddy or Corey Kispert, I think I might take Corey Kisper. Oh, get out of here. I'm just putting it out there. No. I'm just throwing it out. All right. Well, you were right about how this podcast was going to be two hours long.

Because it was going to be 20 minutes. Oh, that's going to be so long. All right. 2022, NBA draft. I still feel the same that I did going out of this draft, which is that if you are starting your team, you want Paula Bancaro, if you already have your number one,

you want Chet Holmgren. Do you guys feel any differently? I'm in the same boat. I mean, that's the way. went at the time. I must confess, guys. I've adjusted my top two. I got J-dub as my number two.

Whoa. Just straight up, again. Wait, behind Chet? Or? No, he's, no, he's behind Paolo. And it's again, it's the same principle. It's like Paulo and J-dub carry the rock. They, you know, and J-dub in his case is,

and Paolo, too, these guys are hell of a defenders. You know, hell of a team guys. I just think the offensive shot creation stuff cannot be understated. And, you know, maybe I'm prison in a moment, Chet with the injury stuff again. Yeah, yeah. You know, another year, another major injury being dealt with. Love Chet. He's obviously clearly my number three.

But I think J-Dub has kind of leaped him. And if, like, gun to his head, Sam Presti, if you were like, you have to trade one, J-dub or Chet, who you think he's trading first? J-dub. I think he's trading J-dub. Just because he has Shay in the tuck. Has Shay? I think what Chet represents, while I agree with you,

he's not a guy who's dominating the ball, creating in the way that J-dub does, if Chet hits his potential, and he might, he's already well in his way, he's already an amazing rim protector, he's already a credible threat from three, he can already put the ball on the floor

a little bit and make some things happen. If he becomes what he can be, it is so enormously valuable for the thunder. In a way that J-dub, if J-Dub becomes a really high-level creator, another superstar-level creator, that's super valuable. But you do already have Shay. So there is some built-in redundancy with those things that I think has to be accounted for. I think J-dub, despite being clearly better right now, also a little older,

and it's just not as unique as Chet is. Like, how do you find another seven-foot shot blocker who could step out to three and handle the rock a little bit? Like, there's just like there. even despite the fact that our bigs are coming into league more now with more skills. It's just like, Chet's a one-on-one. So I'm always going to lean to that. I think for me, it's the idea that the Thunder could just go out and get Hartenstein.

You know, not a discount, but like it's not the end of the world that Chet Holmgren doesn't play an entire season. You know, and it's because they were able to go out and just effectively get a replacement center. You know, just go out there and get somebody who could. do enough room protection, clean your glass enough, not just get completely blown off the ball when he's guarding the best post players. And ultimately, I don't think you could do that with what J-dub does.

I don't think you could just go out in the off-season and be like, look, I got a supplement what J-dub does, even around Shea, and I'm just going to go out in the market and get, you know, an all-star wing in his 20s or whatever. the casement. Like, I just, I just think it's way harder to replace. And so,

as much as I love Chet's versatility, again, maybe this is my big man bias, man. You're on an agenda today. You just put the, you can get their shit piecemeal. You can get it from different segments of your lineup in different segments of the league. I don't

disagree. I think the gulf between Ched Holmgren and Isaiah Hartinstein, who I like, quite a bit is more significant than you're laying out here. The Thunder are still amazing, even with Hardinstein out there. They're going to be amazing if they have good bigs out there. Isaiah Hardinstein is not a pick him up off the scrap heap guy. He is a very good, I think in the top 100, we have him around the 60 to 70 range as a player

ranked in the entire league. He's making $30 million a year. They were able to get him because of their unique financial situation. Not because those guys are just out. How many teams could use an Isaiah Hartton's, frankly. And it's the Thunder's great luxury that they have both of those guys and can, yes, slow play Chet's recovery from injury, let him take his time, get him back when he's feeling right, and now play those guys both together and separately. Ultimately, I just think, like,

I love Chet's game. I love his edge. I love what he can be. And if we're betting on potential, I think J-dub is probably a little closer to the best he's going to be than Chet is closer to the best he's going to be. He's done. You're clipping his wings. I literally, He's no longer going to fly. He's no longer going to fly, Thunderfans. I do think, like, you're starting to see signs that J-Dub might be brushing up against how well his efficiency scales. His whole thing was just that, like, he takes very good shots and he makes almost all of them. And now I love the versatility, both offensively and defensively.

We should point out that he was playing center for extended stretches earlier this season. You're not just going to go get that anywhere. but I think this postseason is going to be big for like really kind of calibrating where he is as a player right now because I think the Thunder are going to need him. And last postseason, you could write that off as maybe being like, first postseason, just getting through the jitters. Like him playing at an all-star level in those series, in the second round series against the Lakers, for instance. Like that could be the difference between the Thunder winning a title and not.

And so we should say, just like, let's just stop here. We love both of these guys. These guys are awesome and fun. and the whole like, let's do group interview stuff is very, very cutesy and we love it. You don't. I do think you've railed against it many times on this podcast. I'm not going to lie.

I've come over to the Justin side. The group interview dynamic is just like, it's become sticky to me. It's, it's camp at this point. The one they did. Very theater kid to me at this point. Putting towels on Nick Gallo, who is like just a great sport was, that was a good bit.

See, but that's an actual bit. They're not just hanging out. is not a bit. But anyway, we love these guys. I would just put Holmgren slightly ahead of J-dub. So I think behind these three guys is where it gets like... Well, let's stop there. Let's iron out who are our top three are individually

because I don't think we ever actually lay that out. I am Paolo Chet, J-dub. Was... Paolo J-dub. Okay. And Justin, what do you have? You have? The same is Rob. Paolo, Chet, J-Dub. Okay. And I want to talk about

Paulo a little bit before we move on because he's having a down season. Yes. He's really struggled with the spacing in Orlando, has not been able to get to his spots or effectively settling for a lot of tough mid-range looks. I am still the believer.

It takes a little bit of imagination to get there right now with the way that Orlando is spacing the floor, but I think he can be efficient enough to be a true superstar when he gets the benefit of that spacing. It's not dissimilar in some ways from Cade last year to Cade this year.

Like you put some guys you can actually knock down shots around him, all of a sudden those lanes are clear. All of a sudden, the game makes a lot more sense. He has a good feel. There's so many things that he has in terms of the fundamentals

of his style and skill set that I believe in and that you can't teach. I just think he's not good enough right now to overcome the limitations of the magic offense. Yeah, in some ways he's a victim of his own uniqueness

in that you just want to empower him to be the best version of the ball handler, the kind of like bigger LeBron type that he is not LeBron, but just like certainly in that mold was just like a big playmaker. But you've seen, to Rob's point,

when he doesn't have the requisite shooting around him, when Franz isn't popping in the way that he has the season, just struggles a bit. The turnovers mount up. Inefficiency has been pretty stark at times. Like we talked about it with Cade. Like, Paulo is still struggling to get through that level of scoring.

And so I bet on the talent every single time. Like, if anything, he just looks like he's popping more as an athlete as he's like honing his body in the NBA system. but you're right. He has been disappointing this year, and so that's obviously a factor. But still number one,

at least for me. He is still that kind of talent and that kind of guy. What do you guys have at four? Because I think this is when it gets a little interesting. Yeah, what were you thinking was? It seemed like the four or five was heavy on your mind. It is.

I'm still Keegan Murray. Wow. Still, still holding out hope that Keegan Murray can ultimate, fulfill his destiny as, you know, the sort of movement shooting, occasional ball handling, quick hitter passer, just the ultimate IQ guy. It's just a matter of when the shot is shotting and when it's not. Because when it's not, he just feels kind of useless, right?

Like, it's not like he overwhelms people with athleticism. He needs to be leveraging that shot, you know, in conjunction with, you know, the IQ. But I'm still a believer, man. And more so than I was like Jabari Smith, quite frankly, who are, you know, he's basically the opposite of Keega Murray. It's like a lot of physical stuff, hard work and all of that. But like, not the best field guy, not the highest IQ guy specifically on offense. but I still like Keegan Murray and Dyson Daniels is my number five, man

I put Dyson Daniels. I'm so proud of us. I drop Jabari out. I get it. And I know he still has his major fans. And I'm just like he's kind of positionless. He's, you know, at first it was like last year and two years ago, it was like, oh, is he best suited at the five?

Is it a four? We know he's not a three because he can't dribble for shit. The shot comes and goes. Like, I, you know, Jabari has just never been my favorite. I love the tenacity on defense. I love that this guy cares. I love that he plays with a high motor. It's just he's never really put it together for me.

Whereas Dice and Danes, when I watch this guy harass all of the best perimeter players in the NBA, relentlessly. Guys, some of the best ball handler, shot creators in the league, I'm watching him be like, I'm not dribbling it up the court this time. I'm going to let my other guard dribble it up. I'm going to get a screen, get myself some room. Like, yo, he is insane at what he does. Then the offense, the shot has to, you know,

but he's driving with more confidence, even taking it with more confidence. He's rounding out my top five, y'all. I know I went on a lot, but yeah. Oh, yeah, you're good. I also have Dyson Daniels, but I haven't at four. I have another player at five. Even freakyer to me, okay?

Even freaker than you. another player at five, and then I have four honorable mentions, and none of those players are Keegan Murray. I'm going to be honest with you. I have been, I want Keegan Murray to happen so badly. I want him to be good,

and I reluctantly, over the course of this season, have been putting him more in our dude index, a little bit more as a player than a guy. You know, like he just might not be a guy. He's a perfectly worthy part of your rotation, the shot is going to come and go. The defense, I think overall is pretty solid.

His size is helpful. The ball handling, everything you mentioned was like, I want that to be a cohesive skill set more than it is. And sometimes it's just you get these bits and pieces from him, but not the whole deal. And I'm still kind of waiting for the whole deal. Listen, this ain't the California classic out here. Like, I know he shot it very well at Summer League,

but it just hasn't translated to NBA games for whatever reason. It looks good. You expect it to happen every single season, but it might be like five to ten years into his career where he's still not making these shots. We're still calling him a shot making 3&D type of wing player. And so I get it. And we should mention like 2022 wasn't that long ago.

We're still banking on potential for a lot of these guys. Of course. And like what they could ultimately be. And that's why I had Jaden Ivy number four on my list. Unfortunate injury. I'll be honest, I was in a big Ivy guy coming into this season. It just struck me as a lot of an older type of drive the ball.

guard off the bounce and might struggle to play with, especially a guy like Kate who needs the ball in his hands, but like the shooting is for real and he's been able to work that athleticism and kind of meld into what Kate and what they're doing as a team.

So being able to thrive in a team context has me looking at him a little differently. And so I would bet on him as a talent in the same way that the Pistons did when they're drafting him to begin with. Then it gets pretty interesting pretty quickly. I had two guys in the mix here. I had Dyson Daniels,

who I will agree is the better player right now. The steals are absolutely incredible defensively. He might be on the short list for defensive player of the year. I haven't looked at it, but he's certainly going to get some looks on that. And definitely all defense, I would think. Even on a positionless ballot, he's going to be an all defense lock. It's got to be all defense.

But unfortunately, if we're drafting from this point forward, I have to mention just because of where I am, I do think Shaden Sharp is a talent unlike anything you've seen. He had 38, 8 and 5 last night against the wizard. So this is a lot of recency bias. He also had the dunk of the year, which he's pretty much does once a month. That was really something. I got to say, look,

I love when guys successfully land the dismount, but I also love when they dunk so hard and so aggressively, they cannot land on their feet. And Shaden Sharp occasionally does that, and it's spectacular. Listen, he's not good.

Like, right now, he is not playing particularly well. He's coming off the bench because he won't guard, and he's just kind of been a mess where he's just so, just wishy-washy by nature.

It's tough to really spur him to really give a shit. And I do think that's the difference, though, between him being like an all-star caliber player and being what he has been thus far, which is just like a disappointing athlete project type. Because he leaps better than probably most players in the NBA, and he has a shot. Two things that, like, if you're to draw up, like a perfect scoring wing, you would want both of those things.

And so I get it not right now, but I bet on that all the time. Because if you could just, like, speak to him. If someone could just, like, get in his face and yell at him about, sandwiches and stuff, like something good could happen. So I'm betting on. Well, perhaps trade him to Los Angeles. Maybe that or kick his butt into gear.

Yeah. And get him to start taking things more seriously. What I do like about Justin's... And what I do like about Justin's picks is that outside of our top three, in terms of the rest of the people that I was considering, Shaden Sharp and Jaden Ivy are the only two guys who have ever seen overwhelmed NBA defenses with their talent.

You know, like sometimes like Jaden Ivy's talent just pops off the screen where he has the ball at the three point line, one dribble, he's at the rim and he left the dude that was in front of him in the dust. That is like, you know, that's the kind of stuff that makes you into NBA, that just vaults you to NBA superstardom when you can harness it on a consistent basis.

And the same with Shaden Sharp, where it's like he's combining athleticism with this deep-ass range every now and again in a way that just, you know, it just looks like something made in the lab. It's just, you know, especially for Sharp, it's just so inconsistent, man. This guy is just so up and down.

And watching Dyson Daniels' guard for a whole year has kind of made me into a bit of a cult member. Well, welcome. The Kool-Aid is being poured for all Dyson Daniels' cult members, returning and perspective. We're here for you. I really like Jaden Ivy. I think that is an inspired pick,

and especially, as we're saying, relative to this stage of the redraft, could be an out-and-out star by the time all is said and done. Does have that burst, does have that talent. And I think gets it in a way that Shaden Sharp has not yet gotten it. And I worry about that with Shaden, to be honest with you. I worry about how narrow his game can be. I clearly worry about the defense.

I just see a guy who has not established a firm understanding of what he's supposed to be doing in an NBA context yet. And maybe he'll either get that or he'll become so talented, he doesn't have to get that, like so productive and so undeniable, he doesn't have to get it. I would love either of those results, but I just don't see either of them being super likely right now.

And so I'm not betting against Shaden Sharp, but I'm betting on someone who's a little more stable and a little more reliable. And so at five, I have Walker Kessler, who was the 22nd pick in the draft, who I think is going to be the anchor of a top 10 defense sooner than later. Basically, as soon as the Jazz

decide they want to compete for something, and he is their starting center, they will be a credible defense. And I do put a lot of stock in that. I do put into sort of like, choose your destiny situation between either Ivy or Shaden Sharp, or I would say the rest of the players

you're looking at as far as honorable mentions are mostly other bigs. It's mostly like Jalen Duren, Mark Williams, who we've talked about the caveats with him a lot over the course of the last few months. You can throw Christian Brown in there. Tari Isan, I think, is deserving of a look, but his, even as someone

who is a huge East, Eason booster, his injuries. Peyton, Benedict Mathurin. A lot of great players in this draft. Got a sniff, for sure. Andrew Nemhard, maybe Max Christie breaks through this group at some point if his career really takes off. But

I like what Kessler gives you as a rim protector where he's not a Chet-level guy as far as defending the basket, but as far as prospects go, maybe one of the next in line. Yep. Those are the names I head down for Honorable mentions too. Let's slip to 2023 now. Number one, this is a tough one.

Amen Thompson. Number one, Victor Webbenyama next. Number two, Amen Thompson next. Is anybody going to make an argument to the contrary? Look, look. I think it's closer than you think. I was a Brandon Miller fiend, as you guys know. watched one

NCC tournament game and declared myself an expert and you know he hasn't disabused me of that since coming into the league like I love his game I just think Amen Thompson with the athleticism

plus the feel and the IQ plus the motor just he's got to be my number two just got to be for Miller I know exactly what he is probably going to be

in the NBA like the Paul George comps, which were played for laughs, ad nauseum, were obviously true. Like, he just has that sort of of ease about him moving around the court. He has good vision, we hope, down the road, and the shooting translated immediately. Right now, I think you're at a down for him just because he's playing in these fun house mirror offenses with Charlotte, where he's taking 11-3s a game, which is just stretches efficient to the point where, like, no one's going to shoot particularly well when you're just basically changing your game at that point. I just, I think he's, I think he's

going to be a two-way guy who is going to be a good score. And frankly, like, I could see Charlotte Piving to him being their number one and trading Lamello down the road. But unfortunately, did you pick him over a men Thompson? You know, I was considering it. And then I turned down the Rockets game last night. I was like, God damn. That's fucking good.

Thank you, Waz. It's just, I mean, we should go on like. I feel you. Yeah. A men is at, like, peak first. Everyone's frothing at the mouth right now. How can you not? But this is a pro-brandin-Miller podcast.

And it has been such a bummer that he's been out with that wrist injury. I think it sees anything, if I'm not mistaken. I think he had surgery on it. So very tough to not have him get these developmental opportunities when he's shown so much already. I think the thing you said, Justin, that sticks out to me is the two-way nature of his play where when we talk about the Paul George comp, it's all about the fluidity, the jumper. But he has some young Paul George defensive chops, too. Like a really good instinct for how to pressure.

actually puts in work and plays up into guys, which is not something that everyone on the Hornets does. And so I love where Brandon Miller could go from here. I just can't even imagine where Ahmed Thompson can go from here. That is very, that's a thrill. Well, I think that is the debate, though. Like, are we going to get to the point where we, what is a men offensively?

Right now, it's thrilling because he could be absolutely anything. But, like, let's say they trade for Katie next year. Is it disappointing when, like, we need a man to hit a three and he's not doing it. Or like, hey, a man, like, create some offense. And it's like, he can, but like maybe not into the level that you need him to. That's the case. I still go a man over Miller.

But like, you really need to find out who he is offensively because obviously defensively is just an absolute menace. Hold on. I'm getting some data from Amen Thompson Propaganda Central. Are you aware, Justin Barrier, that this month, the month of February, Amman Thompson, shooting 35% from three? 35%. Of course. Look, that is the highest of all high water marks for a Thompson brother.

Dude. Sure. This is just the beginning, man. I'm telling y'all, I think ultimately he's going to be one of these guys who gets to the basket, a Jimmy Butler type. That's what I think he can be ultimately. A more athletic, explosive Jimmy Bucket. That's what I think.

No, he's never going to be, you know, some world-beating shooter, you know, 48% from the corners and all of that stuff. But in terms of having a ball in his hand, being a forceful downhill type of player, forcing the issue down there and overwhelming defenders, absolutely think he could be a Jimmy Butler type. JV., when we did the mailbag the week you were out, someone asks us to predict the 2030 first team all NBA and I put Amen on my list

do you think that's crazy that he could be a first team guy by 2030? I mean if this podcast is now one of the more prominent media entities out there yeah I can certainly see it. But you're going to ask me how our influence you mean. Yes, that's right. I thought you guys were going to ask me how many chicken nuggets I could eat in one.

That's already been asking to answer. We know that one. Okay, so our top three, we all have the same top three. Yes. Yeah. Victor, on then, Brandon Miller. I think four is pretty chalky too, but you guys may feel different. Four was chalky for me.

I'm Derek lively. Derek lively at four? Yeah, that's easy for me. Done. That was just easy for me. Don't love the injuries, but no. Don't love the injuries, but, you know, well, what I'd, do love just we're in protection, playing space out on the floor, rebounds,

vertically spaces, has good hands, decent touch around the basket, just literally needs to get stronger. Like, he gets some strength to him, man. This guy is going to be so freaking good. I end up going with Scoot at number five. Let's go. Whoa. I wanted to take Asar Thompson, who's been emergent, I feel like, in the past month or so.

Don't worry. We're going to talk about him some more coming up. I think Scoot has finally looked like an NBA guard, finally. And in both his shot selection, his shot accuracy, is just coming along slowly. but surely. And so he earned my number one. Because this, again, his role is being defined in a way that Assar's isn't yet. And that's why I went with Scoot.

I think Scoot has recalibrated his ceiling to where, if you had asked me this earlier in the season, it might say, like, maybe a bench guy to, I think he could be a pretty good starter at this point. If anything, I think that's the most likely outcome at this point. This guy works hard. Like, I think he's a good kid who is about the right stuff, who wants to be very good. And in times, like, I think he hasn't lived up to his reputation in part because he's so hard on him. And I think things kind of spiral pretty quickly. But you're right.

I think once he got the shot down, you've seen things kind of filter from there. And so, like, I think scoring at the basket is still going to be a pretty big hurdle for him. But he's even, like, learning new angles and finding crafty ways to get around that. It's almost like he realized that he's not going to be an above the rim sort of guy, the type of athlete that I think a lot of us expected him to be, but he's already gotten that, and if anything, his fall from Grace is almost like hammered that home to the point

where he's now solving some of those things maybe a little bit more quickly than you expect, and so I see a lot of this is the ceiling, but like a Mike Conley type of like kind of trajectory for him. If you look at Mike Conley coming into the league, 19 year old speed demon who really took a while, his second contract to figure everything out,

I could see that as being maybe like the mold for scoot down the road where he's like cerebral fringe All-Star on a good year but ultimately it's just like a good solid guard you want to orchestrate your offense. I love the sound of that. I think to the extent that he's shown any of that

capacity so far it's been in fits and starts with the floater. He is learning how to navigate when he isn't getting all the way to the room what he can do? What are his options? What kind of point guard can he realistically be? I love the way you laid that out, Justin, because you have seen a transformation in his

game and overall a great couple months from him now where he he is stacking good week on good week on good week that's really reassuring the turnaround with the shot which is i would say one of the most dramatic of any we've seen in the NBA this season in terms of his building confidence as a three-point shooter that's starting to feel real that's starting to feel concrete that's starting to feel like the kind of thing he can use as an anchor for the rest of his game the reeds are kind of what i have my eye on and that's that's where you know you like mike connolly doesn't probably get enough credit for just his ability to cleanly facilitate professional

level offense. And Scoot Henderson is figuring out how to do that. And I've loved what we've seen from Scoot this year. It's just that the bar coming off of last season was so low that I don't think I would take him in the top five if we're going to redraft this group. Yeah, I agree. And so

I think there's a couple of different guys you could look at here. I ultimately went with a SAR just in the hopes that he could be something close to a men. The same. Yeah. And like, I I mean, him just like jolting Jason Tatum and having them like just doing dance moves out there last game is certainly a compelling case. And this has been, you know, not only as Scoot having a great time in 2025, this is probably the best offensive month of Assar Thompson's career so far. He's looked really good and really active as the pistons have been figuring things out offensively.

His ability to work off of Cade is what always catches my eye. Like he's such a smart cutter. He knows how to leverage the fact that teams aren't guarding him against them. He's getting that kind of first step before he even gets the ball from Cade on the cut. And so he's just catching everybody by surprise every single time. The one that hurt me was not being able to select Cason Wallace in this spot. I love Cason Wallace. But if you're thinking about these great defensive guards and wings,

Assar Thompson is a potentially pretty special defender and maybe already a pretty special defender. And Cason Wallace is a very good, very tenacious one, but isn't bringing you the size and the flexibility and the mystery. box kind of potential that Asar Thompson does. He's not above Bilal, Kulibali for me. No? Jason Wallace. No. That's disrespectful. I like the talent with Kulabali. Yes. I love the talent

with Kulabali. He's certainly an honorable mention. Asar, though, I've been trying to parse the difference between him and Amen a lot this season, like figure out what it is that separates these guys. And what I have landed on is that Assar Thompson plays more like a wing than Amman does. And Amman plays somehow simultaneously, both like a point guard and a center. And that's what makes his game so strange.

And Asar, by contrast, can feel a little more conventional defense first wing who can't quite shoot yet. Like, we've seen that prospect before. But the similarly out of this world athleticism just applied in slightly different ways still is a really intriguing prospect. A man just has way more juice with the rock in his hands. It just feels like more dynamic. No Grady Dick Love? Just kidding. just wanted to say

Grady Dick He's on my short list Anthony Black You're an aficionado of a dick joke I feel like he had a moment I feel like Grady Dick being on a short list

get it I feel like Anthony Black had a moment eight months ago where you know Orlando felt ascendant Orlando

Yeah, you know three months ago all these young guys and and yeah, it's fizzled. Are you still excited about Anthony Black? I'm a little wait and see. I like some of what he brings to the table, but he's

another one of these guys who's a little hard to judge within Orlando's overall struggles and overall systemic concerns and overall lack of spacing. On another team, I think a lot of what he does would be a lot clean. He is such a flow open court kind of player, and they do not have a lot of flow or open court

right now. That's right. Yeah, I think he would be the type of player that every team would love to have. Unfortunately, the magic are not going to give him up. If anything, they're going to sign him to an extension that actually decreases and has a team option on the end of it. It's very possible. In the very near future. And so if anything, like, he's going to be trapped in sort of the boxes that we see him now, where I think he's going to be a terror defensively.

But, like, what is he offensively? Probably just a good playmaker who's shooting will probably always kind of frustrate you because it's not on the level where it needs to be. he's on my short list Brandon Prasemski playing inspired next to Jimmy Butler so he's had a good one to two months at this point Grady Dick I had

Taylor Hendricks we should mention didn't play this year because of the gruesome injury but I think he was on the verge of turning the page there Kaysan Wallace Kolaaleh DeMani Kamara

I was best I was waiting for it He's good advocate I was waiting for Jarris Walker Yeah but the Taylor Hendrix Jarris Walker 8, 9 picks

in this draft, they do loom large as these guys who could have something to their games, but just have not had a ton of opportunity yet. One, because Taylor Hendricks is injured, as you said, Justin. Two, because Jarrett Walker plays for Rick Carlisle. And that's sometimes the way it goes when you're a young player. So who knows what those guys will be? I honestly couldn't tell you. Rob, I noticed you haven't mentioned your favorite, you know, that nice red, Keante George.

Look, I never claimed ownership of Keante George's prospects. I never did that. That's a million-dollar idea, by the way. Kianti is Kianti. There you go. We're just throwing them out today. I'm like, this is, if you're a VC out there, you're getting a lot of good stuff from group chat.

So the last one we have on the board, 2024, you can convince me of any five players who had drafted in the first or second round. Yeah. So, Stefan Castle is going to be the rookie of the year? Is this better or worse than Malcolm Brogden when he won an overall? when Embed was hurt that year. I looked at the statistical cases.

They're actually pretty similar, but Brogden made his three in Castle. If anything, he's heading right on to the rookie wall at this point. He was pretty old when he came out, though, right? He was. Yeah. So I guess that's the only freaking difference. Because, like, realistically, on a potential,

I didn't, I, nobody ever saw Brogden as like, oh, this guy is going to just get exponentially better as his career. Even as a rookie, it felt like, all right, He's like a nice, sensible player who kind of plays above his head for his age in the NBA because rookie point guards usually just get destroyed and cooked and he didn't. And so, you know, we gave him rookie at a year in a week draft class. I feel like Castle, you know, people feel like he has a very high upside, which is exciting, you know, to have Brogden production as a rookie with all that upside.

But like, as somebody told me they would still take SAR number one overall, like he's shown flashing. of being like a defensive yes you know star keyword defensive yes defense defense defense only dick all on off the shot he does not he does a decent little touch from my side

who will probably be a ketch and shoot three-point shooter maybe from the corners maybe a little bit more that this guy can I like that I'm worried about the stretch as like the fulcrum of his game right if that's what you are on offense you've got to be a pretty damn good shooter

and I don't know that he's ever going to get to that point So I'm, he's still going to be in the mix here because he, look, he is a project, clearly. He was drafted with that intention. Saar is still so, so young. I do think Castle is probably going to win rookie of the year. I also have him just straight up number one in my redraft. Because of that potential, I know it's an unconventional case a la Malcolm Brogden, but I know a motherfucker when I see one and this guy is a motherfucker.

Like, I love the energy and the edge and the way he plays the game. I love how much veterans seem to appreciate. appreciate playing with him. And if you're going to chart the course for a player like that who has this great feel, who comes on the court and immediately makes an impact, I just kind of trust that the thornier parts of Castle's skillset are going to round out a little bit. The shot is not there, 28% from three this season. I think he's going to get a little better.

I don't think it's ever going to be the centerpiece of what he's doing, but he's such a good, he's already a good driver. He's already a good cutter. He's already an in-your-face defender. I think he's going to have a better career than a Malcolm Broughton-type will. And so when we're looking back on rookie of the year winners, it's going to stand out a little bit less because I ultimately think he's just going to be a really good pro.

Yeah, the shot is something that we're going to have to keep track of. Also, not really an explosive athlete in the way that I was expecting. I don't know. He wants to dunk on everybody. Yeah, but he doesn't have that like just absolute, like step on the pedal, quick first step. The J. Nivey acceleration. He doesn't quite have.

that. He's just a little bit more crafty and cerebral than I was expecting, but that's not necessarily a knock on him. I think he's actually quite good there. And for that reason, I would have him one, too. He just has, like, really good feel and being able to play off of veterans. And you're right, Rob, I think getting the Chris Paul seal of approval. Like, I think that means something. And so... Definitely. I think he has the most potential. And if anything, like, probably the most productive, I guess we should say, of these players. And he was playing good on a good team for whatever stretched that was. I mean, the spurs were in the plane mix up until more recently.

It is struggling right now. I do think he's hitting a little bit of a rookie wall. As Minas had kind of gone up and down as a result of that, but I still believe in him. So I still have him won. I have Sart 2, though. I just I also like, like, in addition to, I think the shot,

mechanics looks sound ultimately. I agree that, like, maybe if he isn't shooting well, then what is he doing for you offensively? I do like that his athleticism is proportional to his size. I love this with Biggs where they just, like, they look and move more like a wing than like a Bigman

than for instance, like a Zach Edie. And so maybe I'm just caught up in that, the fact that he could be a 3-and-D center. I do think it's funny that we, like, bag on Miles Turner for being this exact player. But like, Al-Xar going number two in our 2024 redraft, but this is where the 24 classes at this point. I think Miles Turner gets bagged on

because the three-in-D never met on the axis. They were ships in the night. I don't know what happened there, but they really didn't meet. Never fucking met. By the time he became reliable, scoring and shooting threes and stuff, like the defense was just fucking gone. And it's sad. So yeah, Sarn Castle, everybody's top two.

Reed Shepard still, my number three. I do not have Sarr in the top two. Oh, you don't have, wow. Rob hates Sart. I don't hate him. Look, there's just some. guys who you see, especially big. God just hates creps.

On the contrary, I have Zachary Reza Shea at number two. So I'm all about it. I'm just going for a different region. I'm going for a different variety. I'm going for that beef porcignon, you know? Like, I'm out here in a different way. Speaking of, can't make their threes. On Zach.

He has been making his threes lately, which is, I think, part of the case, right? A little bit of... So, like, for two weeks, he's been, he's been making threes. Yeah, look, it's a meaningful improvement. If we're talking about rookies, there are always going to be small sample sizes. This month, he's shooting 45% from three. He's really coming on stronger that it's going to, look, he's not a 45% three-point shooter yet. What I believe in was Zachary Reza-Shea in a way that I don't with Alex Tsar is the tools in the floor game, the feel. Like, he's a guy who understands how to play in space, who understands

how to work opposite, not just people like Trey Young, but people like Jalen Johnson. The overall, with that he fits into a team context makes sense to me and feels like something that you can build out from when you're talking about putting lineups together. Alex Saar could be a very high-level

defender at some point. He's already like a pretty good shot challenger and Evan Mobley type if I dare say so. That's honestly the trajectory that he needs but he is even softer inside right now than Evan Mobley was coming into the league and to be that soft in terms of finishing

when you are that athletic plus have pretty lacking feel in terms of how to play the game. He is a 19-year-old. I don't expect him to be terribly sophisticated. I just think with Saar, I don't see a lot from him in terms of what he can be offensively.

And if you're big, and that's who you are, I see a guy who can get played off the floor. I see a guy who can be a potential liability if he doesn't start putting those things together. So he's still in my five. I just don't have him in the top two. I see it with Risha Shea.

I think what's funny is that I assume, he had this crazy wingspan. I was like, oh, it must be like 7, 2, 7, 3, but the truth is he's just lanky. And so it looks like he's actually like 6-8 with a 610 wingspan, if that. He just plays hard.

I think defensively, yeah. He's a giant wing who will in the future hopefully be guarding your second best player while Dyson takes the first guy. Yeah. I think he's going to shoot well. If you could put Risha Shays'i's approach in Shaden Sharps

body and skill set you'd have a guy. I would take your approach at this point with Schiaemann. It becomes more I have the beholder from there. I have Klingin at 3

who needs to get in better shape. I know. Well, unfortunately, the Blazers have drafted highly in the best three draft. It's basically their all-star moment here. The block person percentage is absolutely incredible.

He's basically Mark Keaton at this point. And I also think, unlike Eadie, who I think, I assume Rob has, I do not. Oh, really? Interesting. I do not. I just like the way Klingin can play more within the free-flowing nature of an offense. Like, I do think the handoff stuff we were talking about before with Hartenstein. Like, I think that could be his future. And I also like him as a locker room guy.

Like, there could have been an issue with him and A.N. Robert Williams all fighting for minutes, but I think he's just like a fun-loving good guy to be around. And so I think the size plus the feel plus that has me at number three. I like clinging. I don't mind this at all. I think he is among the big prospects, I like, I do like him better than Zach Eadie.

I do like what he can ultimately be. And the reason Edy isn't on my list is I just when I watch him play, have the distinct feeling that this is never a guy you're going to want to play more than 20 to 25 minutes a game on a good team. And so if that's the case, am I taking you with a top five pick with everything that we know now?

He's never going to have the stamina, dude. The stamina, the fouls, the defensive, like defending in space, all those things are problems for him. Yeah, he got a problem. I think the space stuff is just,

he's winded. Yeah. When he runs up and down, like as hard as he can, two times in a row, or three times in a row, it's just like, bro, he's sucking wind.

out there. To be fair, Klingan has that issue as well. For sure. He does. Put on a lot of weight. And so especially with like, you see him out there with that big, bulky knee brace, you're like getting a little worried. But I think long term, just, he's also like two years younger.

So there's theoretical upside there. I just, I don't know. It's like I'm in a team concept more than I do like. You're right, Rob. It just seems like E.D. You have to be a little bit more intentional about how you use him. He feels like a specialist. And that's okay.

And a perfectly valid part of the Grizzlies rotation. But that's because they're a team that has. options. And if I'm drafting at this stage in the draft, I want players who are going to make my life as a coach or a general manager easier who are going to open things up for me. And I don't think Zach Edy does that. Yeah. From there,

I have Jared McCain, who obviously is out for the year, but has an elite tool, which separates him from basically everybody else in this draft class. I think the defensive issues are going to be a thing there, but yeah, I have McCain four, and then I have Rishishet at 5. Okay.

So I win... Richie Sheet 5. McCain F4 for me. Reed Shepherd still holding on to my Reed Shepherd stock. I'm not abandoning it like y'all. Wait, where are you putting... Where are you putting Reed Shepherd? He's my number three.

Ritchhepard still at three. Still, still at number three. He can't get off the bench in Houston, but I still believe Castle Sarr. I want to ask this about Reed Shepard, which is, didn't Jared McCain just come in and be the player we thought Reed Shepard was going to be? And if so, why wouldn't you just take Jared McCain?

That's fair. That's fair. You know what? You're right. Switch them. Switch them up. There we go. There we go. Three, Reed Shepherd four. You're right about that. I am also not closing the book on Reed Shepard's career,

but knowing how easily he can be targeted. And it was like the second he stepped on the floor for the rockets in any minutes, even garbage time. People are going to write at him every time, and he can't hold up to that right now. That concerns me. His inability to find his shot, I'm not super worried about. I think he's going to get there offensive. I think he's going to be a good player.

But I'm not taking him in the top five. I do have Jared McCain as well. I also have Jalen Wells, who it is a risk averse pick. I thought about him. But in a draft like this, maybe you should avert some risk. Like, maybe you should steer around these projects and these guys who need so much to make their games work. Jailen Wells just comes in. He has a lower ceiling, admittedly.

And for a top five pick, that's not necessarily what you want to be doing. But I know for certain that he is a winning player. And I know for certain that he's going to come in and basically give me, good rock solid wing minutes and not make any mistakes at all. That's useful to me. So we're 100, one hour and 30 minutes into this podcast. Yeah. And just let it rip.

Rob as before we started, he was like, should we start with the 2024? You don't think this would have gotten the people going? Jalen Wells, yeah. That would have been a mistake, bro. Should we do a whole segment on Jalen Wells versus Jalen Wilson? I don't mind it. I like both those guys. have been getting a lot of play on this potter recently.

I also want to say, upset of the century that over the last two weeks, I have mentioned Santi Aldama the least of anyone on this podcast. I just, I'm so happy for where we are right now. Yeah, I've been converted. The church of Santee. I will also mention, I kind of like Mattis Bezellas.

Yep. He's like 610, 611. He's just a giant, weird, goofy human who might be like super-tools. I don't know what he is, but yeah. He is the Josh Giddy case you were talking about, which is if he had been drafted in the top five, I would be worried about the weight of that expectation. But as an

11th pick, he just gets to come in and be goofy and be like exploratory with his game. I think he's going to be good. Yeah. Khalil Ware, I thought about just a giant athlete who I think is going to be something if Miami can sink their teeth into him and have him do a bunch of

just dumbbell lifts or whatever they do there. Eve Missy, obviously. And Reed Shepard, I will know, I feel the same as Rob does. where, like, I still like the talent, but I'm a little bit more iffy on him. I don't think he's done any... He doesn't get the benefit of doubt

because Odoca just bases things entirely off of defense. So because of defense being an issue, he's never going to play. And so, like, if he was on the Sixers, for instance, he would be their starting two guards. Well, there's just a universe where he got drafted by a lottery team and came in and was just given the keys right out of the gate.

They did not give a shit about his ability to hold up defensively. And he put up Rookie of the Year numbers and just won it because he, I think he does have that potential if you gave him room to establish himself and gain some confidence. That's in short supply for the Rockets these days.

And this is the struggle when you have a team that's that deep with not just good players but good young players. All right. Do you guys have anything else you want to say on the past five NBA drafts that you did not say in the past 90 minutes? I wish

Tejohn Salon was good. And maybe he will be, but he is the most like I watch. watch him and I just don't, I don't see whatever it is that the Hornets saw. So I hope to see that one day. I hope his career really takes off. I'm kind of waiting. You can convince me that like he's been a Terminator this entire time,

that like the T3 just sent him back to see if they can infiltrate the NBA system. To sabotage the Hornets? You don't need a Terminator to do that. That's true. All right. On that note, thank you, Eddie Ocampo on production. We'll be back with hopefully a more just totally normal NBA podcast on Monday. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino

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