The Ringer NBA Show - Rejuvenated Cavs, New Laker Isaiah Thomas, and a Markelle Fultz Update | Heat Check (Ep. 209)

Episode Date: February 12, 2018

The Ringer’s John Gonzalez brings on Juliet Litman to discuss the revamped Cleveland Cavaliers on display against the Boston Celtics on Paul Pierce day (4:30), Jason Concepcion to explain the bizarre phenomenon of Isaiah Thomas on the Los Angeles Lakers (22:09), and Chris Ryan to scrutinize the Philadelphia 76ers’ mishandling of once-prized rookie Markelle Fultz (40:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's Heat Check, we'll be joined by Juliet Litman, Jason Concepcion, and Chris Ryan to talk about Isaiah Thomas to the Lakers, the Markell Fultz situation, everything that's happening with the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Boston Celtics. That's coming up. But first, a word from our sponsors. Heat Check is brought to you by Seat Geek. Seat Geek is the best app for buying and selling tickets to sporting events, concerts, and more. For $20 off your first Seekkeek purchase on any game or sporting event, all you have to do is use the promo code Ringer NBA. Download the Seatgeek app or go right to Seek. Geek.com. And guess what? Seekkeek has a special NBA offer running through All-Star weekend. First-time purchasers can get $30 off any NBA ticket between now and February 19th. Just use promo code NBA show for $30 off any NBA purchase, not just games between now and February 19th any game. So even if you've been eyeing an April matchup, you can act now to save

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2015, 2016, and 2017. Enjoy a delicious cocktail with Belvedere vodka today. remember, always drink responsibility. Welcome to the heat check pod. I am your host, John Gonzalez, joined as I will be every week on the ones and twos by our producer, Isaac. Hey, I'm good. How are you? I'm excellent. They gave us the keys to the ringer NBA show Heat Check podcast last week, said take it for a spin. I think you and I and everybody at the ringer, very surprised we did not wrap it around a telephone pole. Still an operation. We're excited about that. We're also excited about the new format for the NBA

show on Friday is called. draft class that's hosted by Kevin O'Connor, Jonathan Charks, Danny Chow. Isaac doesn't go home. He just has a cot in the back. Yeah, I just sleep here all the time. He sleeps here all the time. He's very busy. But that shows fun because in the run-up to the NBA draft, when you're looking for news and opinions, stats, all kinds of stuff about international prospects, domestic prospects. You can get that on Fridays for draft class, which is very impressive, by the way, because not only do those guys watch as much NBA as I do and Isaac and probably all of our listeners. They also get into college and international basketball, which, who has the time? I don't. I certainly don't.

Like after Celtics Cavaliers, what I'm supposed to watch Oklahoma, my wife would have the divorce papers to me by halftime. It would be terrible. You had to watch Real Madrid and Barcelona and all those guys. There are many things that have to happen, and they have you all taken care of, so make sure you listen to draft class on Fridays. It's already excellent. We're excited about that. We're also excited about today's show. We think we've got a good one for you, as we like to say here at the Heat Check podcast. Basketball never stops. It certainly did not stop on Thursday at the trade deadline. Kobe Altman went absolutely crazy, traded everybody. I think Dan Gilbert might have got a trade. We're going to have to go back and look at that. But one of the ripple

effects there was that Isaiah Thomas now plays. After 35 seconds in Cleveland, he's in Los Angeles, playing for the Lakers. Very strange. Continued drama there. Who better to talk about that than Jason Concepcion? He just wrote an excellent story on the ringer called the three-act drama for the Cavaliers. He had previously done one for the Lakers. Both are super smart and hilarious. So we'll get into the drama with Jason. On the drama front as well, less fun, Markell Fultz. Things are still happening. None of them good. We're going to bring in the ringers resident and favorite Philadelphia and Chris Ryan to discuss that stuff. We're also probably just going to discuss our favorite tasty cakes and maybe sing the Eagles fight song. There might be basketball.

I can't promise anything. But first, as I mentioned, a lot of stuff happening with the Cleveland Cavaliers. They debuted their new roster in Boston on Sunday night, went much better than I think anybody expected, smacked the Celtics on their own floor. That's a big topic. And for a big topic, you need a big guest. I think you guys are going to be surprised, pleasantly so. Isaac, let's hit it. Boom, Shakalaka. He's heating up. He's on fire. All right, I'm joined in studio. I had a big preamble ready. Instead, I'm just going to introduce her this way. The greatest host in the history of the Heat Check podcast. It's a very low bar to clear. She cleared it anyway. It's Julian

Louis, welcome back. Hi, what's up? So they told us that you were spread thin and we needed to give you a little bit of a break. And so Isaac and I waited exactly one week before we were like, we got to get Juliet back before we had canceled. I'm thrilled to be here. Thank God. You're here to save us. Hey, it's February.

February sweeps. That's a traditional ratings time back in the old TV model. We need the ratings bump from Juliet Letman. But there's so many things happening with the Cleveland Cavaliers and with the Celtics. And I thought, who better than our partner? partner with Juliet to talk about this. What a pooh-poo platter of storylines we got yesterday. I don't even know where to begin.

I guess we'll start with the game. Okay. What? Question mark, exclamation point? I wish the calves were in Toledo because there would be a lot of holy Toledo headlines. Simmons put in our slack that the Celtics have not been playing well for like the last couple of weeks, but it was only because it was a national TV game against the new little cavaliers that everybody went.

Oh, yeah. The Celtics don't look so hot. We knew that from the Lakers game we went to. We did know that. I think I was less surprised by how the Celtics play. than I was by the calves. I did not expect them to look this good that quickly. Yeah.

Well, the first, like, obvious difference was just how much passing there was. Like, it was a real reversal. It was a lot of dribble, dribble, ISO from the Celtics, and the calves were just, like, an assist machine. Yeah. And also, they looked like they had bounce, you know? They looked, like, excited to be playing. And Jordan Clarkson gets a lot of heat, but he's a good scorer.

Like, he just is. As I have said previously, he's a walking heat check. Yeah. He's never seen a shot he doesn't like. He's going to jack him up. He came in, immediately did that exact thing where I think he was trying to figure out. It was one of his first shots. It might have been his first shot where it was a, it looked like it was a pick and roll that didn't happen.

And he just stepped inside the three point line and jacked one up. And I'm like, oh, he's going to be fine. That's Jordan Clarkson. But the new guys combined for 49 points, which was pretty impressive, I thought. That is impressive. Especially because, you know, Larry Nance was fine. He only had five points, but, you know, he was out there for 21 minutes. Larry Nance is just an energy guy.

Like, you know, he's an energy guy. Maybe he can refine some of his skills. Let's send him to Big Man Camp. But he, like, just brings a certain energy that I think, like, someone like LeBron will really like. Yeah, I think they're going to like him running up and down with the second unit. But you got 15 points from Rodney Hood. You got, as you mentioned, Jordan Clarkson put in 17. And then George Hill hit the ground running.

There's a plus 17 for the game. He had 12 points. He moved the ball around nicely. I have a hard time watching George Hill. He's not the most exciting player. That's not my problem with him. It's not even a problem. Does Danny Chow know about this?

You know, he's like, I have a hard to. And I didn't know this. He's a huge George Hill fan. So I forget what phrasing he used, but while we were doing the trade deadline show on Thursday, Danny gushed about George Hill. And I'm paraphrasing here loosely, he's my favorite player is what Danny said. And I'm like, Danny, what's going on in your life? Well, those Pacers teams had charm.

Did they? Yeah, sure. 13 and 14. 14. Yeah, I think that's what it was. I like them. But George Hill's an avid hunter. And his Instagram for a while was devoted to his husband.

hunting and I don't really have... The slaughtering of animals. I don't actually really have like feelings about that, but it's just so not what I expected. And it's like a really aggressive personality trait for Georgia. I'm actually kind of surprised that, yeah, that you picked on that because you're sort of animal agnostic. I am animal agnostic. That's correct.

But I just couldn't believe that it was such a big passion of his. But anyway, that's like all I can think about when I watch him play. But it's also because he's like without emotion on the floor. But I do think he smiled more than we've seen in the entire season. So that's a positive. And he does bring... He's got to be. thrilled.

Oh, thrilled. Because when I was in Sacramento to do the Deerran Fox piece earlier in the year, and I wrote about this, somebody told me that they had to sit down with him and Zbo and they're like, look, we like having you here. We obviously signed you to do a three-year deal. That's fantastic. Your playing time is

going to get cut into because we've got to play these young guys, which totally makes sense for anybody who knew what was happening to the Sacramento Kings. And as I reported, not happy George Hill about that. So he had to be thrilled to get the hell out of Sacramento. Yeah, and they just have more scoring all of a sudden. Just a lot more of it.

Like, you know, as you pointed out from Hill and Hood and Clarkson, but that just allows LeBron to be the facilitator that he was like last season with Kyrie and everything. And obviously it was really excited. Great cheerleading effort from Mr. Kevin Love last night. You know what? I saw that

and I'm like, do you think he was overdue a little bit or you think he was buying it? I think Kevin Love is really earnest. So I think that was real. I don't think that he like fake stuff. Yeah. And this is another reason why I don't understand why he takes so much heat from people. Like Isaiah, and we're going to get into Isaiah later on with Jason Concepcion, but like Isaiah giving Kevin Love heat, you were on the team for a half a second.

I know. What's wrong with Kevin Love? Why do they give him so much flack? He's probably easy to pick on because he's earnest. He's probably easy to pick on and that makes me feel bad for him. Totally. I think this is a good new lineup for him too. I think when he comes back. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how they incorporate him. For now, though, I really like the mix for this group. We talked about George Hill, but just from, you know, whether you want to go macro micro on this trade and the players that were swapped out. We'll just read them off real quick. Isaiah Thomas, J. Cratter, Dwayne Wade, Derek Rose, Amon Shumper, Channing Fry, and a first round pick gone. Kobe Altman won absolutely crazy in Rodney Hood, George Hill, Jordan Clarkson, Larry Nance, and heavily protected 20-20 for Dwayne Wade.

Big winners on this. Who do you like? Kobe Altman, you didn't mention him, but he's really happy yesterday. There's an undefeated piece today about just like their excitement level. And, you know, a lot of people dad at him, and it's certainly... A lot of people right here. Yeah, I mean, me too, of course. And also it's like really hard to be LeBron's GM, right? Sure. He's LeBron.

But great job by him. At least through one game. I think there was some debate like if they'd be better. And they are a little bit better, at least. They're back to being scary in the East, which they were not before. The Kobe Altman thing is really interesting because there were all those reports about how he hadn't been communicating with LeBron James and that like maybe he had given LeBron kind of a heads up on this, but not really. I think he probably definitely had to clear the Wade component with him. I like the moves if only because for me, it was.

pretty obvious calculus. If you don't make any moves, you're screwed. LeBron's walking. The team's bad. You're in a lot of trouble. Who knows what happens to Kobe Altman. You make some moves. You give yourself a chance,

not only right now and in for the playoffs, but also to possibly retain LeBron who looked like he was at the door. So good for Kobe Alman. The only pause I have here, right now, all things look positive. Sure. Mark Jackson in the broadcast was just gushing about Kobe Alman. Oh, no, kiss of death.

Like, this is not good. This game was such like the embodiment of the little LeBron paradox where he makes everyone look better. And so then, therefore, he also makes himself look better. So for the argument that, like, they're better set up for the future with this team. It's like, are they? If LeBron walks, like, you're still stuck with Jordan Clarkson, Larry Nance, Rodney Hood, and George Hill. And, like, they're all good pieces around a transcendent player.

But without that transcendent player, you're the Lakers. Yeah, LeBron went a long way yesterday and trying to get everybody involved. He had a game high tennisist. Yeah. He'd almost half the cat's assists. He was really trying to get everybody involved and did a great job out of it. And thank God he didn't get hurt. it looked like he got hurt there for a second.

I was worried about the Ross meniscus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, God, how sad would that have been when they were playing great? I know. And LeBron, who's an Iron Man and never misses time. And they make all these moves and then all of a sudden we unplugged LeBron. So we're glad that that didn't happen. What about losers in this trade and these big, massive reorganization of the calves?

Who lost out on this? I mean, biggest loser, Isaiah Thomas, probably lost $100 million. Yeah. So that's rough. I know you guys talk about him later. Continued fall of Isaiah Thomas. I don't know if it's really a huge loss for anyone else, though. Like Dwayne Wade, absolute winner back in Miami.

Oh, absolute winner. I'm so much more interested in the Dwayne Wade storyline than I should be. Like, I'm probably outside of his family, the most interested, like him returning to Miami. But I'm so happy about it. So for the big winners, we did a group post. And I went with Gabrielle Union, who just tweeted out like a bunch of sunshine emojis and was like so excited. Did you see the video of her stepping off the plane? She does like a twirl on the tarmac because she's so happy.

I mean, I get it. Who's happier than Gabrielle Union to leave Cleveland and go to Miami? Are you familiar with their home in Miami? No, but I know that you are. So tell me about it. Oh, man. Oh, it's phenomenal. I don't really know that much about the inside, smart by her. But it's like on the water. Like there's like a pier for their boat. Of course there. And there's a pool overlooking the marina, basically. It's just like looks amazing. It's like this is a house that needs to be lived in. I was upset that people weren't living there. Plus, Wade's kids have been in school in South Beach.

No, they've been in school in Miami since the beginning of the season. Do they have like an au pair or something? I am probably. Who knows? Grandparents. I don't know. Every celebrity has like so many nannies that they just don't talk about. I don't have any kids. I fantasize about one day and be wealthy enough to like pawn off my parenting duties on somebody else.

That sounds like a great life. I don't mean that judgmentally at all, but I'm just like, yeah, your family is there. Like, of course. And like Wade very famously like fought for custody. Like I assume he would like want to be near our sons. So a huge win for them.

I'm excited about it. And also he looked great in the Miami Vice jersey on Friday. The Miami Vice jerseys are so sweet. I'm not a Jersey person. Were I to be a Jersey person? Top of my list. Totally. All right.

So there's a lot to unpack here, though. So, like, you mentioned, are they better? Small sample size, one game. Scoring-wise, they've got some added punch off the bench. I believe younger, faster, better defensively. How could you not be when you unplug, you know, Derek Rose and D. Wade and especially Isaiah Thomas, who was giving them absolutely nothing. Relative to the Celtics, who we now see sort of, like, stumbling a little bit.

Are they now the team to be in the east again? Is this a good team? I think I'm still going to go with the Raptors. I think continuity. You're riding with the Raptors. I think continuity means a lot. And the Cavs is the opposite opposite of that. Yeah.

They have what, 30-something games now to get this together and to really look like, you know, they know what they're doing going into the playoffs, which is fine. And I believe supremely in LeBron James and his ability to marshal his troops going into the playoffs. I want to believe in the Raptors. If you're going to just place a bet on continuity, it would be the Raptors. I mean, like, they've been the same. Spurs East.

They're Spurs East, but I hate to say this because, like, we like Toronto and the Toronto fans are rabid. I have a hard time believing that the Raptors are going to go in the East. I'm going to choose to believe. I like, I'm just going to go for it. I just feel like, I don't know, let's mix it up. A few weeks ago when we were still doing this, like, exclusively together, you would advise that I go off and just watch Raptors games for a week. I never got around to that. Right.

Are you willing to commit to them full time for the rest of the season? So there's like 25 games left. I think I can do it. Sure. You're going to do it? Full time? I don't know. But like, will I watch 10? Sure. Maybe. I just think, let's look at the, where are we in the standings right now? They're number one. The Raptors are number one. The Celtics are a half game back as we record this, and the Cavaliers are six out.

The Cavaliers, probably not going to catch those guys. That's a lot to ask as few games as we have remaining. It doesn't matter to the Cavs, though. Seating doesn't matter. Yeah. I think it's asking a lot for them to look as good as they looked against Boston in Boston yesterday. I mean, they were terrible defensively. Terrible. If they can even get into middle of the pack defensively over the remainder of the season, now all of a sudden you're talking about a completely different Cavs team.

It's true. I think my biggest concern defensively is, I don't know how much I believe Jordan Clarkson will really be playing defense. Yeah, he doesn't, which is fine, but you've got Larry Nance and some other guys for that. I mean, you know, it's just like who bets against LeBron. I mean. Yeah, who bets against LeBron? Here's my other question. You know, we had previously been thinking about LeBron and his double McMansion.

here in Brentwood. Is this enough to keep him from walking? No. You think he's gone anyway? Yeah. I don't know. I think he's buying Larry Nant's stock. Seriously?

I don't. All I'm saying is before Thursday, a thousand percent, like sign me up. He's out the door. I don't know if it's L.A. It might be Houston. It's somewhere. It's not Cleveland. Now I got questions.

Who knows? I think it depends a lot on who else they bring in. But I also don't know where he goes unless he and a friend are like, yes, let's go to the Lakers together. Yeah, it has to be him and somebody because they did clear the max contracts, enough for two max contracts to go to L.A., which, by the way, very ironic and interesting that the Cavaliers helped the Lakers do something that might also ultimately pull LeBron James away from Cleveland. Sure. I loved it. But you got to do it. Shout to my man, Rob Polenka. Great job, dude. Yeah, that's right. Was it you that was wearing a Polika shirt? Yeah, there we go. It was excellent.

A shepherd fairy style Rob Polinka shirt. Very nice, always fashionable Juliet. You know who else was fashionable on Sunday? Paul Pierce had a very interesting, you didn't like the jacket. The jacket was fine. It was everything else you did not like for his... Blue underneath? Retirement ceremony. Can we get a white shirt, Paul Pierce? What are you doing with that blue underneath?

I'm sorry, I reject it. I did not like the combination. The jacket itself was fine. I thought the entire ceremony, like... It was pathetic. The whole thing was pathetic. He really, as we had learned previously, really wanted it to be about him.

And man, did they make it about him? Which, by the way, this is karma. Like, you went and ran... your mouth about how it has to be Paul Pierce's day and Isaiah Thomas couldn't be included. And if you had just been a nice normal human, you would have had your day anyway. The universe would have gifted it to you. But instead you had to look like a jackass beforehand. I liked the beforehand.

I was like, yes, as you know, I was like, yeah, this is honest. I don't understand it. It's kind of like the honest trailers version of an NBA player. It's like, yeah, this is what they're like. And I blame the Celtics and knock Paul Pierce. Like, rein that shit in. And also, what's with putting the ceremony after the game? I thought that was curious, too.

Is it so it can be longer? Is that the point? He really wanted an extended, like, Paul Pierce. Do it before, man. You texted me on my way in to do the show with you today. You texted me a quote from Paul Pierce, and it was basically him gushing about other people gushing about him. Would you like me to read it?

Please. He got messages from Kobe Bryant and Mattis Johnson in the tribute. Quote, I didn't expect that at all, especially coming from rivals, and it just helps me realize the impact that I was able to have and the respect that I was given throughout the course of my career. You've heard Kobe say it. You've heard LeBron James say it.

I wasn't a flashy player or had the commercials in top selling shoes. But I was a player that was well respected and people know when I came into the gym that they had to be ready also.

For them to give the praise they gave, that means a lot because Maddo Johnson was my idol and Kobe Bryant was my rival. It means a lot. Wow. This guy just needs tons of praise, I guess. He checked podcast.

This is perfect for us. This is sad. Like Paul Pierce, you are a great player. You won a championship. Also, like, I think his like, swan song through Brooklyn, Washington, and L.A.

It was actually pretty good. Like, I feel like people are like, yeah, he's a good influence to have around. Like, great for the young guys. John Wall talked about how he traveled with his hyperbaric chamber or whatever. Amazing. I look. This is tough. One of the great players for one of the great organizations of all time,

I will forever lament the fact that the Sixers took Larry Hughes instead of Paul Pierce, like major miss on that one. I've always liked watching Paul Pierce. He had an old man game even when he was young. And then when he was an old man, it was perfect for him. You're Paul Pierce. You don't need to feel yourself that much, I guess. Calm down, man.

Yeah, the pump the brakes just a little. Although I guess, like, if you can't be narcissistic on a Jersey retirement day, when are you going to do it? Is it a bigger deal to have your jersey retired or to make the Hall of Fame? Hmm. Because Paul Pierce said... Hall of Fame. Hall of Fame. Paul Pierce said that if he never makes the Hall of Fame, having his jersey retired is enough,

and it's the crowning achievement of his career. The only reason I hummed on that is because it's for the Celtics and they have, like, no, numbers left. Right. All the players that they've retired have all been Hall of Famers and they've all been amazing. But no, it's Hall of Fame. It's definitely Hall of Fame. Now, real quick, though, the people.

the people that he had, so Doc went, Doc, Rondo went, KG went, noticeably absent. Noticably playing golf, right Allen. With George Lopez. Yes. He decided to go golfing with George Lopez instead of going to the ceremony, which I think speaks volumes.

I didn't realize, maybe I didn't realize or maybe I just didn't believe. I was a little disbelieving that they had that much acrimony between those guys. I knew. I think it's real. Yeah. When they started doing Area 21 with KG on TNT last year, there was a whole episode where Big Baby was there too and they just were like talking about how much they hate Ray Allen basically.

So like it was, or they didn't say that. They're talking about the dynamics of that team. And they very clearly hate Ray Allen. And they were like, well, it seems like they can't be a piece, basically. That's a bummer. Ray Allen wins the pettiness of the day for posting that Instagram. So at least he's won. I mean, he's won a lot.

I'd rather hang out with George Lopez. That was just really something. I don't know. The NBA is excellent at crafting heroes and villains. And they have created another hero in Paul Pierce. It makes me feel a little sad, though. Because I like to think that they get along. And they clearly don't.

And I guess like this is like it's like any other workplace. You've got friends and you also hate people. Friends. Not here. At the ringer, we all get along. Everybody gets along. But in other places I've worked, perhaps, you have relationships that are better than others.

Sure. You know, they're like, you don't choose your family. You also don't choose your coworkers. That's true. It's complicated. Although you chose some co-workers. You were involved in the hiring process. Sure.

I get to choose some. You're very powerful here at the ring. You have a lot of things going on, a Bachelor party. Yes, Monday nights. Jam session. Every other Wednesdays. Sources say. The Wednesdays is when there's not jam session.

But that's this week, right? Yeah, the sources say. So we got a sources say this week. You got up a House of Carbs appearance. You were on the Heechek podcast. I was on Heech. You're the managing editor. I'm managing editor.

Check me out. You have a lot of things going on. Thanks so much for having me. They raised Paul Pierce's jersey to the rafters. We are going to raise Juliet Litman's microphone to the rafters of Heech. And I will not. be golfing with George Lopez that day. I will be there because you're my favorite.

I'll be here anytime you want. Thanks much for having me. She's Julietette. Thanks for coming on. Shackalaka. He's heating up. He's on fire. All right, joining me in studio.

Yes. He was here last week. I had to trick him into coming in again. I was conned. Jason Concepcion is back. He's our resident Polly Math. He wrote an amazing story. Yeah, the first one he did was a three-act play on the Lakers, which was hilarious and

brilliant. He did another one on the Kemp. the synergy there is perfect, but I had to trick you. I asked you to come on and then I told you it was 930 and you just texted me back like a bunch of exclamation points. A vile trick. 930. You were unaware that we even still have 930. You thought that they did away with it. I was not aware that that was an hour that existed. I promised to get you coffee, which I have not yet delivered. But I'm totally going to make good on that promise. You can count on me. But so you came in and just started screaming about the cavaliers,

and you're on board. Listen, small sample size. Literally the smallest possible sample size. Slightly bigger than zero. Right. As small as you could go. The only way you could do it smaller is if at the half,

I boarded the bandwagon. Right. But I feel good about what I'm seeing. Everyone's engaged. Kevin Love was going crazy in his Banana Republic suit. Looks good. The man wears a suit.

LeBron James adopting his new teammates' celebrations for three-pointers. They've got a good mix of young guys and guys who can stretch the floor and guys who can cut. George Hill, pray for his health. I'm with you. I just did this with Julia where I was like, I think I'm back in on the cabs.

This is great. Pray for his health. Yes, all of them. They need to stay healthy. LeBron, thankfully, did not get hurt yesterday. That was scary moments. But they look like, as you mentioned, Kevin Love, having a great time.

They look like they were smiling. Sure. Who wasn't there? Isaiah Thomas. You did Isaiah Thomas, who, and you did. mentioned you think that this is a win for everybody because Isaiah Thomas goes to the Lakers, immediately starts popping shots. After the game, this is my favorite thing.

I could not wait to talk to you about this. So Isaiah Thomas has 22 points and six assists in his debut. In the fourth quarter, he has five fouls, which is more than the points that he scored, which was just four. They lose to the Mavericks. Yes, one of the worst teams in the league. The Mavericks sat their main guys in the fourth quarter. They lose to the Mavericks at the Mavericks.

Tough. Isaiah Thomas says, I feel like I got my powers back with this. Listen. Isaiah, my dude. What's happening? I will say that. Let me, I wanted to defend Isaiah Thomas for a moment, even though I've taken numerous shots in him. I think, like, you know, as a 5-7 guard, scorer, taken dead last in the entire draft.

Yeah. Marginalized in Sacramento. Marginalized in Sacramento, one of 25 guards in Phoenix. At least. At least. entire career as that player with that biography, you just have to have a certain level of irrational confidence in order to be able to get up in the morning and go to a practice facility and play in an NBA game with guys who are like a foot taller, literally a foot taller than

you looking to block your shot at every turn. That said, when it starts to go downhill, that irrational confidence starts looking pretty bad and pretty bad pretty fast. Which is how we found ourselves in this situation. In recent vintage, I think, Isaiah Thomas lore slash quotes. Sure. Where does I got my powers back with this team? In a loss. Right after a loss to the Mavericks on the road where you were like previously the king

of the fourth and now you were most decidedly not. Rank with him talking about diving for loose balls in Cleveland and we don't play defense and also questioning Kevin Love being sick. Where like these are all, it's almost like bizarreo IT. Yeah, it is. I would put it third after those two other statements. I recently in the NBA Slack compared his rise and fall to Bitcoin. Perfect. It's brilliant. Because he was, he was undervalued for pretty much his entire career.

Undervalued. People were like, this guy's bad. He's not good. He doesn't, he had problems with DeMarcus. Now we have too many point guards. You're going to get rid of. You have to get rid of the smaller one when he was really the best one. Yeah. But the thing about guys that size. The market changed on him. The market changed. Danny, Dange, got in, got in early. Got in early and got out quick. Got out quick before the fall. That's right. Before the crash. And the thing about those guys is they lose half a step and now people are closing on their shot. they're getting blocked, they can't get by guys.

Now, he did look good, sort of. Offensively, he did. Defensively, there was a moment where Dennis Smith blew by him. And I would say he blew by him like he was standing still. Forget about standing still. It was almost like he wasn't even on the court. It was crazy. There's another screenshot of the moment when Isaiah got switching a dirk on a pick.

Yeah, and he was trying to defend Dirk. That was really, it was like double Dirk. It was quite sad. Yeah. His hand comes up to like, Dirk sternum. That's generous, I think. You would take sternum.

Yes. That's always been the issue with Isaiah's game is going to be the defensive side. And now it's just exacerbated. So I hope he's able to get back some of the value as he heads into free agency that he lost over the last 15 games that he actually played with the Cavaliers. But, you know, it's an uphill battle. He mentioned backing up to Brinks truck last year. Yeah.

There's not going to be a Brinks truck. There's probably not going to be even an envelope with like, a nice chat. Like maybe they'll direct posit. It's not going to be as much as he anticipates it being. Thinking about where he was at this time last year. And I just keep going over this. I'm going to go out.

He's having his introductory LA press conference today after we do this podcast. I'm going to shoot out there and talk to him. But just thinking about where Isaiah Thomas was last year at this time, where we're talking about him, like potentially getting votes. Yeah. And also being a truly beloved figure in Boston, but in the NBA. writ large. And to where he is now, like cast off by the calves, just basically like shunt. Yeah. They had to give the Lakers a first round pick to take him off their hands. Yeah. And now he's

like sort of like vilified. It's crazy. And it all goes back to how much he talks, you know, Palo Ogetti, one of our great young writers here wrote a pro Palo. Pro Palo. Very pro Palo. Real quick, can we do a Palo Asco blog is my nickname for him? I love that. Yeah. But did you see Palo Esco blogs tweet about Wednesday. He goes, change your calendars. There's a big game coming up on Wednesday, Doris Burke and Bill Walton. I'm like, your girlfriend is going to be thrilled. Also Valentine's Day, big plans at the O'Geddy House.

Action-packed Valentine's Day for Paulo Esco Blas. So you wrote a piece about how Isaiah basically talked his way out of Cleveland. And that's true. Listen, I think, you know, like that irrational confidence does not serve him well at this point in his career. You do wonder a guy who likes to talk meets. a guy who likes to talk in LaVar Ball, whose son is the rookie point guard of the Lakers,

not playing right now out with the MCL sprain, but looks to be coming back at some point in the future. Isaiah is looking for that money. Yeah. Lanzo needs to start. What happens? Okay, this is a great hypothetical. I'm fascinated by this.

Is Lovar still in Lithuania? He'll be on the first flight back the minute Lanzo has to play because you're right. What happens with those two dudes? Because both of them are like, Not to say that Lonzo is still a rookie. So to say that he's at a critical juncture in his career is probably overstating it. Most certainly, Isaiah Thomas is at a critical spot in his career.

And how those two overlap and where they overlap, not just on the court but off, is fascinating narrative. Fascinating. One, can they play side by side? I think yes. That's bad defensively. It's very bad. Lonzo can play with Isaiah. Isaiah, does Isaiah want to play with Lonzo?

I think is kind of the question. Isaiah needs to dominate the ball. Lonzo does a lot with quick offense and quick passes. I think there's going to be friction there. And yes, defensively, it's going to be a disaster. An absolute disaster. Yeah, defensively, that's not good because, I mean, I've been to a lot of Lakers games this season,

and multiple times I've seen them hide Lanzo in the corner on, you know, lesser players. That's Isaiah's role. Yeah. You need to hide Isaiah on like ballboy. Yeah, there's no hiding with that one. So I'm with you, though, offensively that Lanzo can absolutely play with Isaiah because Lonzo, I mean, one of the things that I've knocked Lonzo for is being too deferential to his teammates offensively, where he like, he wants to get them involved almost to a fault. And I'd like to see him be more aggressive offensively. That's not Isaiah's problem. Isaiah would be more than happy to take over offensively. But forget about the LeVar component, because you can never predict what LeVar ball is going to do. I think if I were counseling Isaiah, be yourself. Yes. You're excited to be somewhere where you're wanted to get good.

fine, let's see that, Isaiah. Don't get into it with LeVar. You can't win. It will only hurt you. Yeah, I mean, like, listen, you're on job interview time now. Yeah, yeah. Teams are not just looking to see if you can be the player you were. They're looking to see if you're going to cause problems in this locker room.

Yeah, like, are you going to cause problems in the locker room that you're looking to join? So I, like I said, I'm going to go out and talk to Isaiah, and I made some calls for a piece. I'm going to write tomorrow for the ringer.com. And people in Boston were shocked about how things went for Isaiah in Cleveland. It was shocking. Like I thought, okay, you know what, maybe we got the narrative wrong. Maybe like all this, everybody loved Isaiah stuff was like overblown in Boston. It wasn't, man.

Everybody was like he was the greatest dude. Fans loved him, media loved him, teammates loved him, the front office loved him. Just weird. So maybe he can get back to it. What percentage chance would you give of him writing his career either on or off the court? Like, like what chance do we get of? seeing an approximation of Boston, Isaiah again? Last season, when I talked about Isaiah,

I said that he'll never reach the heights that he was reaching that season, 28 points a game. As a small player, I just couldn't see it. And I feel like with the injury, I believe that even more strongly. I don't want to put a number on a percentage on what he's going to do, what level of his previous career he's going to get back. But I just, I don't. I think it's going to be really tough again.

like a player who's probably 5-8, 5-7, 5-8. Yeah, in that neighborhood. Who is now struggling to come back from injury, I think it's going to be really tough. I'm rooting for him. I'm rooting for him, too. I just think it's going to be really tough. I've always been an Isaiah fan.

I think it's interesting that he ended up in L.A. I wonder what the Lakers do with him moving forward, because he will be a free agent with all these trades, and I want to get into these, too. They cleared enough space for two max contracts in the off-season. And Charks wrote about this last week, and this was a really good piece. I highly recommend everybody go and read it on the ringer.com.

So the Lakers are doing their Lakers thing, right? Where they clear the space. They're classic Lakers thing. We're going to try to bring in LeBron and somebody else and let's do that, right? And Charks' piece was, hey, man, you've got some really nice young pieces. Just worry about that and stop tilting at windmills. Is Charks right? I think Charks might be right.

I think to an extent, yeah, he's right. I mean, this is the same thing I complain about with the Knicks all the time, which is chasing free agents to the detriment of developing young players and concentrating on the way teams by and large win in the NBA, which is you get in the draft, you get some great young talent at a discount in that early part of their career and you develop them.

This is how everybody wins. This is how people win. You look at the Golden State Warriors, drafted Curry, drafted Clay, drafted Draymond. Yeah. Right? Cleveland drafted LeBron doesn't count. They got them back.

Let's put that aside. That's not a thing that really happened. The Spurs, right? Drafted Tim Duncan, drafted, Tony Parker drafted Monagin, Genobli. This is how you create sustained greatness. The Lakers, if you want to look at the early part of their history when they were really great. Drafted Magic, drafted James Worthy, right?

Got cream as another piece to bring in. You've drafted Kobe. Got to find your own guys. You got to find your own guys. Now, the Lakers have that nice young talent, but they're using it as a selling point, really, with these other free engines. Here, come join these young guys who are all so good. I think if they strike out this offseason, the danger with the Lakers is that they will if they strike out on LeBron and Paul George,

that they then go shopping at the B&C level, bargain bin, and still pay that premium. That's the danger with free agency. And I think if that reality looms, call it off. Yeah, that would be terrible. I would be horrible. I like, though, their young core. I like Kuzma.

I like Brandon Ingram. Kuzma still needs to learn how to play defense. He's been pretty atrocious at that end of the floor. Brendan Ingram is long. Lanz a ball. I'm like hit or miss on him. Josh Hart has been a pleasant surprise, but he's mostly just a piece.

Where are you on Lonzo? I think Lonzo's going to be good. I think, listen, when you look at the history of guys who have multiple triple doubles in a short span of time, none of them are really bad. The floor for him is like starting level NBA point card. That's pretty good. Yeah. I don't think he'll be any worse than that.

Which is fine. Which is fine. All-Star? Will he be an all-star? I don't know. That's a tough call because point guard is so deep. Very deep. So for him to be one of the best, I think would be a lot, especially when like,

you've got Damian Lillard having to like bag on to an all-star team. I don't think he'll be that. But I think starting level guard in the NBA is good. Yeah. I need to ask you, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you a little Nick stuff while you're here before you go. You had me on NBA desktop. Yes.

I got to ask you a question. You were right. Philadelphians are feeling themselves right now. They are. And it does, Shodden Floyd is a big component in our lives. Sure. Like anytime I could like look at the Knicks and see them floundering, that makes me feel better about myself.

I want nice things for you though, because you're nice and you come on the show and you've always been very kind to me. I want nice things. as a result for Frankie Smokes. Is this good for Frankie Smokes bringing in Mutey? Well, listen, it's only one game again, small sample size. They looked good. Mutiye looked good.

He looked good. They looked good together. They played, I think, 24 and 23 minutes. So essentially the same amount of time played together. Moudier more on the ball and they'll keen him more off the ball. They looked good. I hope it continues. And again, like there are stories reported today that the Knicks are looking to bring in

Paolo Pugioni, one of the... I saw you laughing about it. Listen. How excited are you about power? Bring him in as a developmental guy, which is one of the classic Nick's problems over the decade has been developing young guys. They've let go of Riza, Channing Fry, like again, again, young guys that they've let go who other teams have turned into good players, Nenei.

I hope that happens. I love Pablo Prijioni. He's a guy that I wish had come to the NBA at age 28 and not age 34 or whatever it was. I hope that happens. And I hope they develop these young guys into. something because if they do, if they hit on Moodye and develop smokes, okay, you've set up, you've set up your back court for the next, you know, five, eight years. Before yesterday's game, you and I had talked and I was freaking out. I was like, I don't understand Jarrett Jack. What are you

doing with Jared Jack? What are you doing with Trey Burke? They started Jarrett Jack, and then he only played eight minutes. Great. Trey Burke only got eight minutes. It was like they listened to us. Yeah. 29 minutes for Muti A, 31 for Frankie Snokes. Let him play. Let him play. I mean, you're good at him play. Look, the Knicks are literally playing for the long. lottery. That's it. Just run them out there. That's it. Let's just see incremental improvements in our young players and let's get into that lottery and get a good pick. I want to be clear here as a Philadelphia. I don't want to see too much improvement. Right. Not too, just enough that I could be interested on your behalf. Listen, I want to see improvement on the individual team level for players and I

want to see L's and Ls and Ls. I want to see those Ls stack up. I want to get into that lottery. I want I want to get a good pick. Tank for Donkich. Tank for Donkich. I'm rooting for you, if not so much, for the Knicks. Thank you. You've got, what, binge mode? That's right.

You've got NBA desktop. Here we go. You're now in the mix on Heechek. Heat check is great. You're writing all kinds of stuff for ringer.com. Read the three-act play. It's bananas, funny. Very smart.

Listen, I don't know how you pull this stuff off. A lot of counting on my fingers to make sure it stayed within Iambic pentameter for the most part. Even Shakespeare didn't always have the I-Eachian. cheated now and then, but I mostly kept it with the Iambic pantowner, please read it, and read all our great content. Go read it. He's very smart. He's Jason Concepcion.

I still owe you coffee. Ah, don't worry about it. He'll be back. Thank you, Gons. All right, we're going to bring in Chris Ryan. We're going to talk about Markell Foltz. But first, before we do that, a word from our sponsor. He Check is brought to you by Upstart.

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All right, joining me in the studio. I do a big watch-esque introduction, but I can't pull that off. I don't have the loan capacity. It's Chris Ryan. Just give me an Edward Norton reference. Chris Ryan is here. Frankly, the only reason I'm here is because of Chris Ryan, who pucks me out of freelancing obscurity. The obscurity of Philadelphia sports media.

Yeah, that. That uncovered. Nobody's done anything there. So I guess what I'm saying is send all your complaints to chris. dot Ryan at the ringer.com. He's responsible for all this. But I brought you in because it's very sad. Things are very sad in Philadelphia right now,

and I needed another Philadelphian to commiserate with. We don't have anybody else here from Philadelphia, so I had to get you. What's going on with faults? Are you worried? Okay, let me start by saying. Start by saying. I am much less worried

than I was before we won the Super Bowl. Oh, sure, yeah. So just on like a flat out, like, how is my tension? Like, I was Jerry Tarkanian with a towel in my mouth. I love Tark. Like last Saturday. Right. And now I'm like, sports is weird, man.

Lots of stuff can happen. It's a long, long life. You can't get too stressed out about these things. Bowman mentioned this exact thing in our Slack where he was like, of course, this had happened with faults because we got something nice that we've been waiting for our entire lives in the Super Bowl. And it can't just go completely smoothly. Jennifer Lawrence is on planes doing Eagles' chance on the public address system on airplanes.

I don't know if you saw that. That's true. That happens. So while I am living in this golden moment, we've got to take a hit. We have to take a hit. But I also think that that's the thing that winning a championship, which I up until this point, did not know how it felt like. No.

Because I just didn't consider myself of like a true Villanovin, I guess. There was Phillies. Yeah. You know, there was a Phillies, but that took two days. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't the same thing. We didn't even get it like the way that most people go to a World Series. Yeah.

So it doesn't cut as deep, but speaking of cutting, Markell's shoulder surgery that he apparently had or this procedure that he had obviously has not fixed the other parts of this. Let's just say injury with a capital I and say we don't know what really it is. Like obviously, because of the mixed messaging that's going on, and this is what I really wanted to talk to you about. Is Markell Anthony Bennett? I really hope not.

I don't think so. I don't think that every single person who watched him play at Washington, and even watched him play in the Summer League, like, I watched him in person. I was like, that guy's just good. And then he rolled his ankle. And I was like, I had a heart attack, but he seems like he's going to be okay. Can't wait to see him in training camp. And obviously, we never saw him, really.

You know what I mean? Like we never really saw him at any kind of full capacity. And now we see him on iPhone videos shooting in the background of Sixers practice videos. Which is something that we've talked about at length. Like the packaging, how they presented this whole thing. thing because so on Friday we have Brian Colangelo who they brought in to handle the media. Yes. And to have relationships with people and to be the guy that Sam couldn't do.

He knew agents. He knows how to work the room. He knows how to make the media get on your side. Right. All the things that they said Sam couldn't do but did behind the scenes that Calangelo is now doing in front of the scenes and doing much worse. So on Friday he has this press conference and he just talks himself in circles the entire time.

And he says, despite the fact that Mark Howell Fultz has been medical. cleared. He basically did the shrug emoji of press conferences. It's like, I don't know. He might be back this year and he might not. And I just am at a loss for how they've handled this thing. And frankly, I'm at the point now where I'm wondering if they even should bring him back because they're trying to challenge for a playoff spot. And if you try to, if this circus continues, you've got to reincorporate Markle Fultz at a time where you're trying to play. You would do it. You would bring him back? No. Here's the thing. And I speak as somebody who has at least one bet with somebody that he will play this year. And I,

said that he will. But the cracks are starting to show. J.J. Reddick, a great ringer podcaster. One of the best. Coming out and saying, I think he was criticizing the media for their obsession, whatever he wants to call it with Markell's shooting stroke and him, like, filming him practice. And JJ said, like, he's 19. Like, you guys, this is getting a little bit obsessive. This is ridiculous. Personally, I think that that was more of a shot at the Sixers organization than it was at the media. And I think that the difference between what Brian saying and what Brett is saying and the fact that they can't get on the same

page of we're both going to walk out there they're all going to ask us the same questions if I go first they're going to come to you and say this is what he said what do you think they're going to try and trip us up and the fact that these two guys can't just say look what's important is the next 10 years of Markell's future

career not these next three weeks there's no pressure on Markell to do anything but be Markell all they have to do is say that there is no fan base in professional sports more prepared for their prized rookie to not play than Philadelphia 76ers fans. This is what I wrote. I said, I don't understand considering how they handled these guys previously, why don't

they just do that again? Keep them out of sight, out of mind, let them go and work through whatever. He heard of a shoulder. He'll be back next year. Fine. Did you know anything about broken feet before Ben Simmons broke his foot? Did you know whether or not Ben Simmons should or shouldn't be back? This is the exact point.

And I think like you picking up on Redick being frustrated with that whole thing, I think is absolutely right because the reason why we're, why we are so obsessed with it and the reason why we're focusing on it is because it's being dangled in front of us every single time. How could you not be? And Kyle Newbeck wrote a piece in the Philly voiced it today. I did a long piece, reported piece about this whole process. And one of the things that he talks about in there is the role that JJ has sort of taken with Markell in terms of being a little bit like a mentor, which is a good mentor to have. Great. It's exactly why you paid JJ Reddick 20 plus millions. Not only to hit shots, but the reason Amir and JJ were brought in

the first place were to be culture guys, we're to set the tone in the locker room so that these kids knew what it would take to play 82 and hopefully 100 game seasons. You would say that you still, like, I think you were on with Simmons, and Simmons gave you like a half a game over under on whether or not. And I took the over. And you took the over. I'm asking you again. Do you still think he plays?

Yeah, I think he comes back sometime in the last like 10 games. Look, we're the eighth seed. Should he, though, is my thing. Should he for two reasons? One, as I mentioned, you're trying to get into the playoffs for the first time in a long time and bringing in a new guy, let alone a new guy who's got all these issues around him. Like, I don't know how that affects the dynamic. I'm going to guess it's going to be difficult.

It's going to be difficult for the kid. But that's the thing is that you recall speech, you talk to people, like, it sounds like everybody likes him. It's not like this kid is like, he's not pulling his weight or it's something. You know, there is like unspoken stuff about Markell, right? There is like the idea that this is psychosomatic. There is the idea that this is in his head. But everybody seems to be on this kid's team.

You know, and then you've got like stuff about the agent. The agent's setting up Karam Butler at the kid. Karan Butler interview to kind of put Markell out there and that that wasn't Sixers sanctioned or that he had differing reports on whether he was injected or had stuff removed from his shoulder.

Right. Like this is a mess. But through it all, no one has come out and been like, he's a head case or he's a bad kid or he doesn't know what it takes to be a pro and he's too young and he shouldn't be in the NBA yet. Nobody said that.

Everybody's like, this kid just wants to play basketball. Yeah. And I think that that's part of his, I mean, with the agent setting up that T&T interview that was like super quick. with Quran Bonler. It was very strange.

I was watching that game and all of a sudden he materialized and I was like, oh, wow, where did this come from? Because this clearly couldn't have been from the Sixers. They haven't put him in front of anybody since they shut him down. Then he goes out there. So I think part of that was his own frustration bubbling to the surface and going, I want to tell you that I want to be out there too.

This sucks for me. Yes. You think it sucks for you. It sucks for me worse. But again, I don't know if that's necessarily a great idea in... It's not, but you know, it's crazy. It's interesting to think about how, you know, NBA is a players league. And there are some organizations, like, say, the Spurs,

where there is at least the illusion to a uniformity and how they do things in a uniformity of how they communicate with people. Popovich is the voice of the team. They've got a bunch of guys who don't really aren't known for being storytellers on that team. But ultimately, you know, you've got a lot of cooks in the kitchen. You do have agents. You do have family.

You do have guys have crews, guys have people around them. They have coaches. They have coaches who have agendas like Brett is trying to keep his job. Yeah. You've got Brian who just saw. his number one draft pick is apparently useless, while Donovan Mitchell and all these other guys are tearing up the league.

So it's an interesting modern day NBA story to watch because I think that there are a lot of interested parties making things clear to people at different times. Whereas in football, and Belichick, he's just like, you're not playing Malcolm, brother. And you will never really know why. And that's like, we just take that. We allow that to be that you got benched in the Super Bowl

and no one's clear on why. Yeah. And in the NBA, it's like, no, man. The agent would have Malcolm Butler on a halftime show with Aaron Andrews if like if it was the NBA. Well, that's why we tried to connect the dots today on the ringer in the piece that I wrote about, like, what's going on with Brian Colangelo and what we think about Brian Colangelo. And I think like whatever we believe to be true about why Markell is in this situation, whether it's health or psychosomatic or some combination of the two, I think we can all agree that this is not a great look for Brian Colangelo. It's not a great look for a number of reasons. one, as we mentioned, the PR packaging and the spin behind this,

mishandled, they're dangling in front of everybody. They're basically begging everybody to ask questions. That doesn't make much sense to us. But then just from him as a general manager standpoint, this is the Andrea Barney guy. And this is way worse. Like, this is a deal that he made with Danny Aange, with a rival to move up for a kid who had to be can't miss.

You said it, you hope that he's not, and you don't think that he's Anthony Bennett. I don't either. But whatever this is, it better. It better get right real quick because this will be the darkest mark against Brian Colangelo's stewardship of an organization, period. Yeah. So let's throw a couple scenarios against the law. Sixers missed the playoffs.

Does Brett Brown? I think Brett's fine. You think Brett's fine if we come in ninth or ten. Yes. I think this is right now a net win for the way the season is going. Joel is healthy. He's playing back to backs. Ben Simmons has looked really good.

Yes. They brought in Reddick. It looks like a real team. Sarge is getting better. They're going to try to add more people. pieces in the off season. Like, they still have their pick. Yeah, I think Brett Brown, like, for whatever's going on with this team, I don't think

any of it gets late at the feet of Brett. Okay. You do? I am not wild about the schism between what Brian says and what Brett says. If you're a Brett Brown fan, I am a Brett Brown fan. I think that he has shown that with talent, he can get talent to play well. I know that some people, like, don't love some of his rotational stuff. They don't love his end of game coaching.

But all in all, I think Brett Brown, especially in terms of, like, the tactical strategy, that the Sixers play with, which is fast, which is like, we play modern basketball. I don't want to go backwards. That being said, Brian is clearly trying to position this as, I think, as something that is not his fault. Yeah. That something happened after I drafted this kid that is making it so that, you know,

he, by all accounts physically should be able to be contributing to the Sixers and is not. But he keeps... And Brett is saying, I think Brett is a much more compassionate speech. obviously sometimes to his detriment because he turns everything into a halftime speech

but he is sort of do you see what I'm saying I do but how can you look Brian Colangelo can try to spin this however Brian Colangelo wants and he can say that it was post fact

but again he was fine in July but how it's been handled either on the medical front or on the public on the PR front those both trace

back to Brian Colangelo he still runs the organization you are still in charge you pick the player you're the guy overseeing the medical staff. You're the guy figuring out the PR strategy on this front.

All roads lead back to Brian Clayton. There's no way for him to unplug himself from this situation, no matter how many times he talks himself in circles. That's all I'm saying. And I don't know how he gets out from under it. I mean, I guess you could try to lay it at the feet of Brett Brown, but Brett Brown... No, I don't think you laid it at the feet of Brett. I think that... Look, I think that for as much as everybody writes

about it, you've written about it multiple times, we've written about it multiple times, we've had fun with it. We've also commiserated about it. Yes. It is a pretty sad story. It is extremely sad. And it's specifically sad because you were watching someone who used to be able to do something and is not even in the prime of their athletic life and seemingly unable to do that very thing anymore. Now, he was never like, this kid is going to be Dale Ellis. You know what I mean? But his shot was part of his game. He was going to stretch the floor. He

was going to make plays. He was going to make plays for others. He was exactly what you wanted to pair with someone like Simmons who could dominate the ball. But Markell could shoot a little bit. He could get to the hoop, he could collapse defenses. It was going to be a perfect match. But it is sad to watch this happen. And I think that the major thing that's different about this specific story is that we are watching it happen, is that we are watching him in the background of practices with a hitch on a shot that's two feet away. Yeah. And that's where I go. Like, I know that you think that he will play and you're optimistic. You are far more optimistic than I am. I don't know if he plays this year. I don't know if he should play this year.

And then when he does eventually play, and he will, I'm worried. You're not worried. Bless your heart. I needed that right of sunshine. I didn't say, it's important to recognize that I am like Brett. You know what I mean? Like, I'm basically hearing what Brett says. When Brett says there's a lot of things you can do on the basketball court other than shoot,

that to me makes me think he wouldn't mind taking a shot at running him out there and having him drivel. I mean, like, I don't know how you can't really have two of your starting five not be able to shoot. No. And like one of them, I mean, Ben Simmons can shoot. Yes. In that he can physically shoot.

The other kid can't actually physically shoot right now. When you have Brian Colangelo to say his range is, quote, in the paint basically, that makes me really worried and really concerned. And going forward, like a lot of people, especially in Boston, are going, see, dealer Danny knew. And he gets all the credit. Look, I think probably when that trade went down, all the things that we heard about Danny actually wanting Tatum and making the move and getting the extra pick. I'll give him credit for that. He didn't know that this was going to happen.

Nobody did it. I don't think that was going to happen, but something happened in the time between him meeting with Markell Fultz and taking that picture where he's like looking at the picture of Bob Cousie on the wall and it looks like it's a done deal. And then Bill's pointed this out to me

and on podcast multiple times. Two days later, he traded the pick. Yeah. So whatever happened, Danny, it's not like Danny didn't do his due diligence on Markell Fultz. And two days later, he got Brian Colangelo to trade the third.

three and the Lakers pick to get Markell. Yeah. He won that trade, but what I'm saying is that he didn't, like all the people who said C, Danny knew, he knew that he had a guy, he knew that he could get a good deal out of it. Yeah. He didn't know that this, what has happened to Markelle was going to happen to Markelle. We heard that Danny Hange was thinking about Tatum at one anyway. Yeah.

Yeah. Which I give him credit for. About that deal. And I run through this hypothetical in my head all the time. Let's just say like the pick is gone. The pick is gone and you've got the player. You've got Markell Fultz. If you could trade Markel Fultz right now for, and I'm going to run through some players,

and we'll just take it step by step, would you trade Markel Fultz right now for Lorry Markening? No. Dennis Smith, Jr. No. That would be real close for me. Kyle Kuzma. No. Lanzo.

No. Tatum. No. You wouldn't trade him for Tatum right now. No. I would take him for Tatum in a heartbeat. I would have to reset. I mean, Tatum's been so good and it's a known quantity.

I think this is about as good as Tatum's going to get. I think with some variants, with some variance, with some. I'm like, yeah, I'm sure he'll add some stuff to his game, but I think Tatum is what he is. What about Donovan Mitchell? He's very good. I don't know how you wouldn't. He's so good. The reason why I am reticent to say, let's do this, is because if they had just said he's got a torn labrum,

he's out for the season or something. I don't know how long you usually are out for torn labrums. But let's just say he had like a massive shoulder problem. We just, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. You know what I mean? This is all new territory of this. idea that we're just like watching this guy not be able to make a two-foot jumper. But that's not nothing, right? It just makes me really, really fucking nervous about what's

happening. The whole point of this whole six, seven years that we've gone through is to put the best players together, right? To draft the best guys is to not take Jolio Lulokafour again and to not draft Jason Tatum because he can-Nodon Mitchell is no Jaloka-Four. Right. And I, and I don't know, and lots of other teams missed on Donovan Mitchell. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, so that's not only on us. And I just think that I have to stick to the things that I have learned from going through the process, which is still happening, which is that you bet big on big players. And if they think like every other goddamn draft expert was just like, Markell is the number one pick. This kid could be Lillard or Hardin if he hits his potential. Then that's like a no-brainer

to take him. And if he just needs this year to figure it out, forget Ola Dippo. going to a third team and being an all-star. Like, I don't want to sell on a kid who has the potential to be a two-way dynamo in the back court to pair with Ben Simmons. Yes, it would it be nice to have Donovan Mitchell? Sure. Yes, of course. I don't care about Jason Tatum's 15 points a game right now.

What I care about is having an awesome scoring point guard who can pair with Ben Simmons for the next 10 years. I hope that happens. I really do. That was the pep talk I needed. I just think that the process, like, you go through this, you watch the sum of the picks worked out, Some of the picks didn't.

You watch guys get hurt for a year. We sat around being like, will Embed ever play in the NBA? All these guys who are like, Fultz is done. Fultz is never going to be good. We're also saying like seven foot guys with lower body problems really don't work out. I felt differently about Embed though. I really did. I felt like if he could get back at all, he would be really good.

With Fultz, I feel like if he can get back, now I got to see it. I don't know. Did you see him dunk the other day? It was pretty good. This is why we have Chris Ryan. on the Heat Check podcast to remind me of dunks. The Eagles won a Super Bowl. Why would I come out here and say

Markell Fultz is Anthony Bennett? Well, just, I'm really glad that you did that. I feel much better than I did 20 minutes ago before you came on the podcast. You are right. The Eagles did win a Super Bowl. Everything else is gravy. Chris Ryan, you came on the pod.

I really appreciate you. You've got sources say on Wednesday. Yeah. You've got The Watch tomorrow, Tuesday. The Watch is today and Thursday. Today and Thursday. Yes. Ringer FC on Wednesday.

You're everywhere. It's very hard to keep track of you. We'll also be releasing the other five hours of the Miami Vice Pod that we didn't release. He did the rewatchables. You can find his content all over the ringer.com. We've got a lot of great stuff. We do heat check on Mondays. On Tuesdays, we've got Kevin O'Connor and Chris Vernon.

We've got sources to say on Wednesdays, on Thursdays. It is. You're also on group chat. I forgot about group chat. And then on Friday, as we said, the revamped Friday podcast. That's the draft class podcast. You get all of your incoming player news. Make sure to check out all of your ringer content for Julie.

Letman, Jason Concepcion, Chris Ryan, our producer, Isaac Lee. Isaac, it's another week. Can I call you ice now? Ice! We'll give it a couple more weeks. Isaac, what if we call you ice, but we do it like Tom Tibido screaming ice from the sideline? Ice, ice, ice. That's the only possible way that I'll accept it. We'll check back in with Isaac next week.

Thanks for listening, everybody. Bye.