The Ringer NBA Show - Rockets Up on Warriors, All-NBA Teams, Doncic Falls, and Porter Rises | The Ringer NBA Show (Ep. 276)

Episode Date: May 25, 2018

The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor and Shea Serrano react to the Houston Rockets defeating the Golden State Warriors to take a lead in the series (0:35), debate how LeBron James’s Cleveland Cavaliers can hold off the Boston Celtics (11:49), and discuss the All-NBA selections (19:39). Then O’Connor is joined by Jonathan Tjarks and Danny Chau to talk about Luka Doncic’s reported fall on draft boards and the potential for Michael Porter Jr. to be taken higher than expected (26:27). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, this is Kevin O'Connor, staff writer at The Ringer. We have a super special two-part episode of The Ringer NBA show for you today. First up, we have Shay Serrano to discuss Game 5 of Rockets Warriors, which was just absolutely thrilling. What a game to watch last night. And after that, we'll bring in Jonathan Charks and Danny Chow for draft class. And we're going to talk about the latest reports involving Luca Donchich and Michael Porter, potentially rising up the rankings. Let's get to it. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show.

My name is Kevin O'Connor. we have a very, very special episode tonight with my very good friend. It's Shea Serrano. Hello. Shea, that game was insane, wasn't it? We got to call a truce. We're going to call a truce, Shay. Come on.

No, how about you? How about how is that for your truce? Come on, Shea. All right. Truth. Truth for 25 minutes. And then we're back at war with one another. Okay, perfect.

25 minutes gives us more than enough time to talk about that insane, thrilling, Rockets win over the Warriors 98 to 94. went down to the final minutes. Chris Paul was unbelievable in that second half, wasn't he? She seemed like a trademark performance for him. Yeah, and he hit those goofy shots like back to back, and then he tried to do it two or three more times, and you're like, all right, chill out.

He did hit that righty leaner driving to the rim that would put the Rockets up six with about four minutes to go left in the game, gave them the cushion that they needed until he got hurt at the end. But it seemed like over the course of the game, this win for Houston happened despite the fact they didn't get a lot of offensive contributions. They shot only 13 for 43, Hardin and Paul did. Hardin was 0 for 11 from 3.

They were a combined 11 for 40. It was a really rough offensive performance, and yet Houston was still a bit of pull that out, Jay. Yeah, I remember that. As soon as he started driving, that floater he hit over Dremont to put him up six, I remember that almost nearly exact same shot because he hit it over my beloved Tim Duncan at Game 7

when he was with the clippers. As soon as he started driving, I was like, oh, this is a good, bucket here. Rockets are going up six. Yeah, Chris was civilly as he was right there. Because at this point, it's less about like, nobody's shooting well, it's fine.

But it's less about, are you missing because you're scared or are you missing because you're missing? And it never one time in that second half felt like if he missed a shot, it was because he was scared. He just felt like he missed it. And I think that's really what Houston has been missing more than anything

else because if you look at the way they played in the playoffs last year, when they didn't have Chris, and it was like James Hardin's turn to go nuts. Like, he just couldn't ever quite do it. You always felt he had a little bit of fear inside of him when you got to those terrible moments. And with Chris, it doesn't feel like that. I think the other guys, Eric Gordon especially is like, we got a fucking dude here.

Let's go. It's really cool to watch. I mean, I don't like the Rockets. I'm very clearly, and on the record as being anti-Rocates, but watching them play the Warriors, it's like this is really great. watching them sort of pull the legs off the Warriors and the way that everybody said couldn't be done. And really, the only

time it seemed like they were, quote unquote, afraid. They weren't afraid, but the only time they weren't clicking, I thought, was after Steph went off in game four and they had the 41 point loss, their defense just kind of melted down in the fourth quarter. But besides that, they are making life hell for Golden State on,

when Golden State has the ball. Look, Darrell-Mory built this team to beat Golden State. They have versatile defenders with PJ Tucker, Trevor Risa. They have a really good big man in Clint Capella. James Harder's trying on defense. Gerald Green somehow has been solid for them. They have made life really difficult for Golden State.

And, Shea, I think that's where the series so far is being won for Houston. It's on the defensive end of the floor, forcing Golden State into shots that they don't want to take ISOs and really have been tough for them cutting off ball as well. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, again, there are points tonight. We're used to watching the Warriors put up 110 without really trying, without their guys playing. for the last seven minutes. I think this water is a little unfamiliar for the rocket.

I mean, excuse me, for the, it's unfamiliar for the Rockets, too. This is the furthest they've been in the playoffs in a long time. As far as we're like in game, five, game six headed toward, it's really cool to watch these guys just sort of punch each other in the nose

over and over again, trying to see who falls down first. It is cool. I mean, like, you know, Houston was the one seat, but they were essentially the underdog on NBA Twitter heading into the series. And it's just really, really cool to see them actually doing it. Yeah, you know what I saw right before you called.

I saw a cool stat that said, you mentioned James was 0 of 11 this game. He's 0 of 20 in his last 23s starting from game 4 to now, but during that 0 of 20 stretch, the rockets have outskirts, which is like how does that happen, you know? It's defense, right? It has to be because of the defensive end of the floor and, you know, like that's the thing with Golden State, right? Like, yeah, they have Steph Curry and yeah they have Kevin Durant and Clay Thompson but the dirty secret with this team is besides those guys who

who scares you you know shooting the ball there's nobody on that team well I think that that's enough though I think Clay Thompson Kevin Durant Steph Curry three of the best things ever right that's 20 yeah you're fine it should be enough though but it seems like watching the games that it's not though

yeah well I don't understand what's going on with Clay especially he was okay tonight he had he was 8 14, 23 points, but he just felt invisible. Like, we saw it in game, even game four when the Warriors ended up losing, but there was a moment where Steph just took over and everything felt like, oh, this is the Warriors we're used to watching. Like, it seems like fewer and fewer of those moments are happening as the series

goes along. And I think that that's just making everybody feel a little nervous. Where's the Clay moment? Where's the, you know, where's the Durant moment? I mean, like, Durant had his moment in game one, but ever since then, he hasn't necessarily I shot the ball that great from the floor? And again, like that again seems like a testament to Houston making things tough on them. I think Kevin Durant, people have been complaining about, oh, they're running more isolations.

Is it because of KD? It's like, yeah, they need KD because when you're facing this Houston defense, when they are locking down all your fancy off ball cuts and your screens off ball, you're forced into isolations. And having KD is obviously doesn't hurt you having Kevin Durant. But you're right, Shrey. haven't had necessarily had enough of those moments. Steph did in the third quarter of game four and then a little bit in game five as well. And Katie did in game one. But other than that, they haven't had that spectacular moment on their end of the floor.

But then again, so hasn't Houston, right? Houston hasn't shot over 40% from three yet this series. And they were 19 and 2 on the season. They had 21 games when they shot above 40%. And they haven't had that game yet. So do you think if Chris Paul's out for game six, and we don't know yet, he was heard at the end of the game, if Chris Paul is out, does the

potential of them having that super hot shooting game still to give them a chance or they're in trouble without CP, potentially? I hope that we get the game where they go nuts from three I'm going to be tonight, but now maybe game sticks works for them. You know what's crazy to think about?

This is very similar to the series they played against San Antonio, except game five was like super tight all the way through the last five minutes and then the overtime it was like they're just sort of pushing each other back and forth to see who's going to fall down. And, you know, the Rockets end up blowing that game when Cardin had a three-pointed

or blocked in San Antonio won by three, I think. Where the rockets now are in that spot, they still game five when they, it looked like they should have lost. And then their guy is out, like San Antonio had Kauai out for game six, and the Spurs still won. Maybe CP3 is out, and then the rockets go nuts, and they win this one. Like, that would be a very, a very cool, like, circle to tie together for the universe. How much of this, Shea, is just Golden State being sloppy?

Like, that last play, I mean, with about, you know, whatever it was, 10 seconds left when they passed the Draymond Green and he looked like a wide receiver turning his head before he caught the ball. How much of it, this is just Golden State being sloppy? It's at least 40% of that. Because you feel like they've had games where they didn't shoot that well, but they still won because they're Golden State. They play good defense, and it's like they usually will mess up maybe one part of the game.

They'll mess up, but they won't score a bunch, or the defense won't be great, or they'll have a bunch of turnovers. But not very often is it two of those three, and especially not very often is it all three of those things? And we've gotten tonight we had the game where all three of those things seem to go wrong for them. It's just, it's weird to watch. It's tough to look ahead, not knowing Chris Paul's status. he was definitely pretty hampered

at the end of that game. What does Golden State need to do to finish the series off to win the last two games? Because it's like you said, they had all three of those things go wrong for them tonight, and it has a couple other times as well. Is it just fixing one of those things, or do they need a lot more to go

right than that? I think you just made one of those. You just don't turn the ball over as much as you did tonight, and you're fine, especially if Chris is out, because as much as we seem to be rooting for James Harden to sort of pull this series toward Houston. He just didn't do it in game four.

He was like, you know, he missed the last two or three shots in the end of the fourth quarter. It would have got the game for them there. He didn't do anything. How many points did he have in the total, like 19 or 18 or something like that? 19 points on 21 shots. So five of 21 from the floor. And fatigue's really been a thing for him

this entire playoff. He's had amazing game ones and had some amazing moments, but he hasn't been able to sustain it at all. Yeah. And what's weird about that is, so tonight, I don't even think he played 40 minutes tonight. I'm not mistaken. 30-9. So that's like low for this point. Yeah. Yeah. But the warrior, I mean, Graham-on played that many. Kevin played that many stuff. Clay, like, all the main guys are playing that many. Trevor, like, don't tell us you're tired. That can't be the reason. You're not LeBron here who is responsible for every single thing on the team. You don't get to be tired when you have Chris Paul running the offense half the time. It's going to be tough

as Chris is out. That's the scary part because, you know, Hardin isn't 100% in terms of energy levels right now. He's definitely fatigued whether he should be or not. He is, it seems. And if Chris Paul is out, you know, we talked earlier about like maybe, maybe Houston has their hot shooting game, but part of the way to get that hot shooting performance is by having one of the best playmaking point cards ever feeding the players the ball. And if you don't know Chris Paul, that's going to be problematic for their hopes in that game. Even if James Hardin is better, having that second guy who can create when Hardin's on the bench is going to make the significant difference. And now you just get one if he's gone. Yeah. The Rockets only had.

Let's move on in the other series continuing tonight, Shea. South Excerop, three, two in the series over LeBron, James, and the Cavaliers. Shea, what does Cleveland need to do to extend this series? They just need for everybody not LeBron. I can't imagine you're LeBron James. You're in the locker room putting on your jersey and you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror and you say to yourself, I'm looking at, if not the greatest basketball player of all time.

One of the two greatest basketball players of all time, that's what I'm looking at right now. And then you turn to the side and it's fucking Jeff Green. And then on the other side is nobody else. Like that fool. Like, what is it? What is happening here? It's terrible.

It's like LeBron called Jordan Clarks and Jordan Crawford. Yeah, exactly. He doesn't even know his name. Oh, he knew his name. He did that shit on purpose. 100% he did it. Because he did that in the middle of, like, reciting off four straight plays that had happened. And he's like, oh, I don't remember a guy.

I don't make his name. That's crazy. Poor LeBron. I feel so bad for LeBron. I mean, part of it's his doing, though. I mean, by having the signing the one-year deals and the big contracts for Tristan Thompson and J.R. Smith. I mean, I feel bad, too, but it's also partially his fault, though, like that has led to this. Yeah, it's a little bit. LeBron. He'll be okay.

Yeah, he's LeBron. I'll go to the Lakers this summer and build a new super team. Yikes. But we'll see how long lasts. I mean, Cleveland could still storm back. They have been terrific in games three and four at home, whereas Boston, the entire playoffs has looked like a completely different inferior team on the road. What's, is that going to continue in game six, or is this going to be a different game? Is this going to be close, kind of like the last two Houston Golden State games have been. Game tonight, I think then LeBron just shuts it down

for game six. They're not going to be Golden State and I don't want to go to the finals and then hear everybody talk about how I'm three for eight in the finals. I don't want to do that. But since Houston won, I think LeBron comes out and he's like, you know, there's a chance we could play Houston and I feel like I can beat Houston. So he's

going to come out hard in game six is what I think is going to happen. Is that fair when people knock him for that, the final losses? No, it's ridiculous. It's so dumb. Every time somebody makes that argument, they're like, oh, winning is the only thing that matters or whatever bullshit like that. And then they start like picking up other little things.

Like, you can't argue if winning is the only thing that matters. You can't like not give credit because a guy didn't do this or didn't do that. It's the dumbest thing in the world. It's like with that argument, they knock him from making the finals and losing, but they don't care when he doesn't make the finals. Yeah, exactly. It's like, what are you talking about? I do think with this series, though, look, Boston has not been good at the road the entire playoffs. But it doesn't mean it'll change this game.

Because like you said, Cleveland's supporting cast has not been good at all. They've been really, really bad for the most part, even though they had some moments in games three and four. I don't trust anybody else in that team. Boston has one of, if not the best defense in basketball, and they have made it really tough for Cleveland to run some of their actions for Kevin Love. I mean, they're relying on, like, George Hill to generate offense. I think that says everything you know about Cleveland. If you're Cleveland, you need, I think, possibly an all-time LeBron James performance to beat Boston in game six and seven for that matter.

If you get that, then you certainly have a chance, but I don't know if you can rely on J.R. Smith to heat up. For Kyle Corver to have another great defensive performance, it just seems like it's asking a lot from the rest of that team. You need the LeBron from when they came back to. one in the finals. Like you need 40 plus points, 40 plus points, triple double LeBron. You need that for game six

and game seven if Boston is going to win. Because I think Boston will probably lose game six. It's in Cleveland and all those guys are still so young and nobody really knows what they're walking into just yet. So I think LeBron comes out with the flamethrower

early in that game and just sort of burns everybody to death. And then you get to game seven and then it's it's like to see Houston and Boston in the finals. I think part of the reason I'm rooting for the rocket so much right now is it's just going to be hilarious if the Warriors lose and you have all these people who have been talking about

how they're so terrible for basketball and they've ruined this and they've ruined it. And they haven't ever even won two championships in a row. Like that would just make me so happy. It would be perfect. It absolutely would be. And if Boston's on the other end, it would be quite an interesting story,

like not having Carrey Irving and Gordon Hayward and being led by Al Horford and a 12th. 20-year-old Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown and Terry Rozier in the starting lab and somehow Aaron Baines becoming a really good defensive player all of a sudden, it would be a hell of a story if somehow they were to be able to, they were the team of all teams to take down LeBron James. And you mentioned LeBron earlier needing to have his like 3-1 comeback type of performances. If that were to happen, Boston, I think, needs more from Jason Tatum, who is tremendous

in game five with 24.7 rebounds, four assists, four steals, two blocks, just, an excellent all-around performance for him. But I think there's more. Like, they can get more out of him against this Cleveland team with J.R. Smith defending him and Kyle Corver occasionally. I think if they need to squeeze more out of Tatum, they can get it. Yeah, he's capable. Like, a 32-point game is not a reach for Tatum.

And an efficient 32, like 32 on 18 shots or something crazy like that. You know what's interesting to me when I think when I'm looking at this series, I won't talk about Boston and Cleveland, is how much pressure is on Kyrie, how much pressure is on Gordon if the Celtics do make it to the finals. And let's say they make to the finals and they lose to Houston or Golden State.

Like next year, you have to get back to the finals when you have Gordon. And it can't not be that. And it has to be that forever going forward. Then that's just crazy to think about. I feel like they might be over there hoping that they lose.

Do you ever feel that vibe? I feel like that's happened. If you're Kyrie and Gordon Hayward? Yeah. Like if I went on vacation from the ringer for six weeks, I would want for y'all to fucking just fall apart. That's what I would want. I wouldn't want to see y'all thriving without me.

It puts them in a weird spot, I'm sure. Just as long as you have a job when you get back from vacation, though, at least. Yeah, yeah. On the brink of, like, bankruptcy. That's what I want. And then I come back and I save it. You would be sending out one of your X amount of weeks without getting fired at the ringer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You can start new ones X amount of weeks since I saved the ringer. Mm-hmm. I do think there has to be a small part of Kyrie and Gordon Hayward that would feel disappointed if the Celtics were to win the title, which isn't going to happen. I mean, they're not beating Golden State or Houston, are they? Or do you think there's actually a chance? No, they're not beating either one of those teams. Whoever comes out of the West is winning the title.

Although, to be fair, it feels like everybody's been saying that about the playoffs started. whoever gets matched up against the Celtics automatically advancing. And it keeps not happening. How many games do you pick Houston in against Boston? Five. And that's if Chris Paul is healthy? That's if Chris Paul is playing, yeah.

Okay. I think five's fair. I think Boston can steal one with their defense. Yeah, they'll get one. Rockets will go up 3-0. They'll get a little late. Also released today was the all-NBA teams. Just briefly go through those.

First team, Hardin, LeBron James, Anthony Davis, Damien Lillard, Kevin Durant, second team, Yonison, Nacin de Kupo, Russell Westbrook, Joel, B, Lamar, Alder's, Demar de Rosen, third team, Stefan Curry, Victor Oladipo, Carl Anthony Towns, Jimmy Butler, Paul George,

Shea, who is the biggest snub or the biggest surprise that actually made it? You know, I'm surprised that LaMarcus made it on their second team. I always feel like he's terrible. Even though I know he's not, it's just, he walks weird and he runs weird. I feel like he just can't be that good at basketball. So for me, I was most surprised to see Lamarca Sonna.

He wasn't the most surprising person to get a vote, but he's the most surprising to make the list. I think he got a lot of love at the end of that season, though. Without Kauai playing, Aldridge really helped carry the Spurs and the playoffs. Alder was fantastic. He was just great. He did all of the things you want for your main guy to do, and he shouldn't even have been the main guy.

And it was cool to see him doing it in kind of an old-school way with a lot of post game, right? I mean, like, so many three-point shooting bigs, it was nice to see the one different type of big man in today's league. Yeah, that's always fun to watch him. What's great is he has a tendency

it felt like before, and every once in a while he was sort of playing back into it, where he would go down low and somehow he would end up getting switched with a, like, a smaller defender, and he'd shoot that goofy 14-foot fade away over them. And this, this season it felt like he got a little bit meaner, and he

decided, you know what, I'm not doing that bullshit anymore. I'm just trying to murder everyone. And that's the guy we want to watch when we're in San Antonio. We want that. We want the bully. We want Lamarcus to bully. There was a lot of talk on Twitter today about Damien Liller making the first team and how that was a little bit

of a surprise. And I thought like, I mean, he carried the team again. Like during the regular season, he helped carry Portland to the three seat. I feel like in a way, we've almost forgotten like that this is a regular season award. And talking with Danny Chalphillard, and talking with Danny Chow earlier today, he mentioned how he thinks it would be great if

All-NBA and all these awards were announced like a day or two after the end of the regular season. And then we had like another set of awards for the playoffs because that way like it would be clear Damia Lohard, first team all-N-B-A, nobody would have been shocked in April. But now it's just a weird feeling coming out when it's almost June already. Is that, would you like to see something like that in the future, Shay? I think we have enough awards, but I do think, yeah, give it to them prior to the playoffs. when, you know, like how they used to do the MVP award, like, during the playoffs,

we shouldn't have to wait six weeks after the season is over to find out this stuff. Maybe you don't need, like, a playoff, you know, all NBA team, but maybe you could, like, have just like a playoff MVP or, you know, best playoff, you know, player or something. I don't know. Maybe just one singular award. Maybe that already is finals MVP. Yeah, that's finals MVP because you don't want to be like,

um, the Warriors won the finals and Damiena. is a playoff MVP. Like, what are you talking about? You lost in the first round. Like, then it doesn't work like that. Final MVP is fine. First, second, third team, all NBA is fine, but just do it a little earlier, so we don't have to forget.

Who takes his spot, though, if it's not, if it's not Damien? You can't put Russ there, right? Their season was just too bad. You can't put Oladipo there, can you? Can't put DeMarzine either? Yeah. There's nobody you would put in that spot. That's why I think it's Dame as well.

I didn't have an issue with it at all. That's who I had on my ballot. Yeah, John Wall missed too many games. Chris Paul missed too many games. I don't know. Did Damian Lillard? I'm just sitting here talking. But I don't know how many Damian missed.

I don't feel like as many as those other guys. I think it was maybe around eight, not a lot. Okay, good. The one guy that surprised me that made it, I don't know if I was surprised, but maybe I was more disappointed. Paul George making the third team. I thought he started off the year wonderfully, you know, for Oklahoma City. But then after Andre Robertson got hurt,

George's defense really fell off in that second half. he didn't score the ball well at all. So for him to make third team forward spot, I was disappointed that it wasn't Ben Simmons who was unbelievable down the stretch for Philadelphia or Al Horford on Boston, who was really the anchor of the best defense in basketball. I thought both of those guys were more deserving

than Paul George, who made it just by a hair over some of those other guys. Yeah, I think that's a, that's a sucky that when Andre went out, the Thunder sort of struggled so much. I love, I'm a big Andre guy. So to see them, this is just what we're talking about a second go. Like, you want to be the guy who you go away and the team sort of struggles without you.

Yeah, it was weird to see Paul, George, Andre went down. I don't know what happened there. And Jay, I have to get your thoughts. What should be done to the voter who gave a vote to Dwight Howard for an all-N-Ba team? I couldn't believe that. I feel like that's a joke by somebody. But I don't know who would do such a terrible joke. Who is that unfunny that they would vote for Dwight Howard?

I wonder if they just clicked the wrong button, or are we just being too forgiving, if that's the case? They might have clicked the wrong button, or maybe it was straight up like Dwight Howard is somebody's friend. Maybe there's one person in the world who doesn't think Dwight Howard is terrible. And that person was like, I'm going to give him a vote and see what happened. But then again, someone also gave Trevor Areza a vote, too. Maybe he also has a friend as well that happened to him. That's fair. Trevor is fair.

Trevor is beloved in Houston and he's an integral part of the team. I write about basketball for a living, Kevin O'Connor. That's how I pay my bills. I don't even know who Dwight Howard played for, honestly. I don't know what team he's on.

He should not get in a vote. But Trevor Reza deserved at least three votes. We only got one, so he fell short. Yeah. Shea, I think we're at 25 minutes. You can hate me again now. That's the end of the truce. I'm getting out this phone.

I'm going to send several mean tweets about you. Shay, thank you for joining the Ringar NBA show tonight. All right, Cail. Thanks again to Shea for joining the show. We're going to get the draft class. But first, a word from our sponsor. Today's Ringar NBA show is brought to you by Miller Light. Look, here on the Ringer, we have our disagreements.

But there shouldn't be any debate about this. Miller Light is the greatest tasting light beer with only 96 calories and 3.2 grams of carbs. That's fewer calories and half the carbs of Bud Light. So there's really nothing more to talk about. If you have a real argument, let me hear it. Until then, stick with Miller Lite. Miller Light, hold true. And now, let's bring in the draft class guys.

We're back. It's time for draft class. Calling it from Dallas, Texas. It's the ringer.com staff writer Jonathan Charks. What's up, guys? Sitting across from me. It's a popular writer, Danny Chow. You know, the only reason I still do this podcast

is because I'm positive that my popularity decreases every time I open my mouth. Danny, it's moving up. That's the self-confidence you like out of you, Danny. It's good to hear. And our podcast is produced by the man with the best singing voice at the ringer. It's Isaac Lee. How's it going, Isaac?

I don't know about the best singing voice. We had Chewbacca in to do this video called Hans Plan. And Chewbacca has a really great singing voice. We should plug it. That was a great video. It was hilarious. Go listen to that after you listen to us, talk draft. Let's do it.

Draft Expresses Jonathan Gavoni reported there's no better than a 50-50 chance that Luca Dantritch goes in the top three, which is really surprising because he's really the consensus number one prospect. We all have him ranked first. number one at a lot of different outlets. But it seems like the Sons are going to take Arizona Center, DeAndre 8, with the first pick. And I heard last Thursday that the Kings likely aren't going to take Dandridge with the number two pick, which Gavoni also had in his report today.

So it's starting to seem like Luca might fall out of the top three. Charks, what do we make of this? Okay, I'm going to put this out there right now. There are four elite big men in this drafts. Michael Porra Jr. is a can't miss player. Let's get Luca to Dallas. I'm starting it right now. How is this happening, though, Charks?

How does it happen? I mean, I think a lot of it, Gavoni's article talked about, Lucas is being nitpicked a lot because he's been on the spotlight so long. And I mean, he isn't an elite athlete. He's not in great shape physically. He struggled some of the Euroleague playoffs. Like, I get the concerns, but it kind of feels like he's been evaluated so long.

People are kind of falling out of love with him almost. It could kind of be a case where you're looking at Luca and you're looking at, you know, his kind of subpar athleticism at the NBA level, and you're just like, well, is this guy really going to be my number one option for a team? If you're drafting in the top four, top three, whatever, you're looking for a guy who's going to change the face of your franchise. Is James Harden an elite athlete or Stefan Curry? No, those guys aren't either, though.

They're average athletes, right? Luke is an average NBA athlete, not subpar. From the most recent games that I've watched with him kind of having the kind of extra weight gain, he hasn't really had the same amount of explosive. that he had earlier in the year. And to your point about James Hardin, I would say that he is an elite athlete in certain ways, just like you would.

Decelerating. Yeah, just like you would with Curry or a guy like Nash. And yeah, there are certainly like aspects of that with Donchich. But like I can kind of see where a lot of these higher level decision makers are like, is Donchich really going to be that guy for us?

So the thing is, you know, I understand those questions being asked because of the athleticism aspect of the game, but then you look at the game. then you look at the fact that he is an unbelievable passer for his age level. Unbelievable at navigating the pick and roll and keeping defenders on his back and just creating space for himself or making the passers, his teammates, his ball handling at his age, ability to draw contact, his touch, granted his shot hasn't fallen as much lately. He has really good touch, really good from the free throw line. He plays hard on defense, he rebounds.

So it's like, he does everything. Yeah. He does absolutely everything. And Charks, that's why I read these things. And it's like, I feel like he's just being completely nitpicked for reasons. Sometimes that maybe aren't as much about basketball. Is it the other stuff? Is it the medical?

Is it stuff with him staying overseas? Because it can't be just about basketball. Well, I think that there's also two things worth keeping in mind. Like, number one, I did the numbers from my article I wrote last week. He took 75% of his shots off the dribble this year. If it's more kind of like 50, 50 catch and shoot versus dribble, I think his numbers will go up shooting-wise. And number two, like what you were saying, Kevin, about like Luca working in the weight room. Okay, I'm going to put this in massive air quotes.

NBA, quote unquote, strength and conditioning, we can put 20 pounds of muscle on this guy easy. If he's like 6,8, 240 of muscle, it won't even matter. I don't think that much. Let's put him in some serious weight training for two years because he hasn't been weight trained at all so far. I do kind of wonder about the whole medical side of things. Like, by all accounts, he hasn't had any major injuries. But with the sheer amount of games he's played, so he's played so he's played so many games and Real Madrid actually isn't done yet.

They're actually playing their... Yeah, they got the ACB playoffs. Yeah, they're actually playing their final game of the regular season as we speak right now against Gran Canaria. Right after the Euro League final actually happens. Exactly. Like, Dunchy is sitting out this game, but there's still more games to come. And you wonder where the guy who's played pretty much twice the amount of games

is pretty much any of the guys in college at his age group. You wonder if maybe there might be some certain stress injury concerns? So, Danny, are you thinking like... Japanese pitchers, like that kind of thing. Like they're getting overworked overseas where they come here. And it's like it kind of limits their career. I mean, I don't think it's that big of a concern, but it's definitely something to bring up. And it's definitely something that is probably being brought up with all this nitpicking.

That's certainly part of it too, I think, because he has played so many games and because the fact that you're not getting as much access from him. Gvoni mentioned this in his article today that Donchich would probably take his own physical and provide those medical records rather than the team giving him their actual physical to understand. Okay, I'm going to say something. sacrilegious right now. Do it up. Maybe just don't let him play Summer League. Just shut

them down for like two months. Let him just chill out. Like I know we all love Summer League, but I think Luke has shown enough overseas that it'll be okay if he misses Summer League. Yeah, I think that would be perfectly fine plan for whatever team drafts him. I think, if anything, it would almost be overdoing it by having him play. I mean, what is going to do that for? Yeah, he's got no need for it.

It would be beneficial to, I think, give him that time off. Part of me wonders, Danny, is all of this misdirection, because I've talked to a handful of NBA people that are like, I don't get it. I still think he's a top two guy. Someone said to me earlier today, they think Aiton's the only person who should go ahead of Donchurch. So is this all possibly just misdirection? Really, everybody wants them?

Yeah, I just don't really understand what the kind of incentive is to throw out this specific kind of smoke screen if you're a team at the very top. Is it leverage for a trade? Maybe. There could be a lot of movement, I think. But we all saw last year, like, it's just helpful to keep people in the dark. Because if the Lakers had, like, not been so obvious about Lonzo, possibly that Boston affiliate doesn't even happen.

Like, it's just probably helpful to be more vague, I think. I think there's no benefit for being honest, is what I'm thinking. And I don't think there's any threat of him staying overseas. Look, Charks laid it out in his piece last week,

but he's a EuroLeague champion, EuroLeague MVP, your league final four MVP, a rising star twice and a Eurobasket champion. Keep going, keep going, keep going. There is nothing left for him to prove at this level.

You know, I don't think there's any threat of him staying overseas. I think it's absolutely fascinating that this is actually a story a little bit less than a month away from the drafts. And we're talking about him maybe falling out of the top three.

And I love Donchurch. He's number one on my board. He's number one on all our boards. I can understand the logic, you know, for a team to feel like they want to take a guy like Jaron Jackson, a two-way center who can protect the rim, defend the perimeter,

can shoot threes for you. I can understand the appeal in a Marvin Bagley who's going to be able to get buckets in the NBA, who's going to rebound because there's a sense of certainty with some of these players. Whereas with Donchich,

you do have the, you know, aspect. You do that? Well, see, I would say, like, if he went on nip-pay, we can nipak all these top five guys. Oh, 100%. Like, you know, that's kind of like a little much to me. Well, and that's why we all have him ranked number one.

Yeah. And the one thing that stood out in Gvoni's report from Thursday was that he's kind of getting a little thick. The Donchich diet. Yeah. So Gavoni mentioned that he kind of has this affinity for fast food. And in the fantastic Mina Kimes article on ESPN MAG got into his love of nachos and fajitas at Hard Rock.

So what do you guys make of this? Is this normal for a 19 year old kid? It's certainly normal for me as a 19 year old kid. I think Markell has really hurt everyone's diet takes. Like now every prospect has to be like, thanks Markell. Now if I got a chick-fil-at, everyone's going to hate me. That's what's really going on here. I mean, the hate with faults is more the shoulder thing.

I don't think people forgot about the fast food with him. I hear it all the time. I don't know. KFC, when we talked, You had some pretty significant concerns. Oh, I do. I do with Luca as well. I think diet matters.

It's very important. It's critically important in my opinion. But do you think it's overblown in the sense that, look, when he's in the NBA, there's going to be a complete system built around getting him in complete shape? No doubt. Yeah, I have no concerns if he's willing to adapt. But if he's going to continue trying to eat, you know, fattening food and all that, well, I mean, like, yeah, that's the thing for any, any teenager.

I think most of them we eat pretty poorly would be my assumption. There are very few Michael Porter vegans out there which is a whole different can of worms.

Yeah, so I personally do not have a specific diet but do you guys have diets you guys would recommend for Donchich

at the next level? You're on one now Charks, aren't you? Yeah, I'm on the keto diet like shout out to the keto diet, no carbs, no sugar.

I got a lot of energy. I'm loving it. I did a diet in 2011 similar to the keto diet, no carb diet. It's called

a 17-day diet. Lost a lot of weight. It was very beneficial. But I wouldn't recommend to a professional athlete because Luca, for him, right now he's just gained a little bit of weight. Like you want to turn it into muscle. Yeah, I want to get him yoked up.

That's what I want. Let's get some muscle head trainers in there. Look, players gain weight over the course of the season. And like Gavoni also said in the report, it's not necessarily the best strength and conditioning program in Europe that they have in the NBA. So I don't worry about it too much with him. From all I've heard of him, he is a hardworking player. He wants to maximize his potential.

I wouldn't read into it too much. But it certainly is a factor. I think this might be good for him. It's fuel for his hashtag motivation, all these hashtag haters. It might be for the best if he's being doubted, honestly. Yep, hashtag they sleep. Sooner enough, they'll have a full sleeve tattoos as well. Oh, man, go full reddick.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. So if Donchurch is moving down, one of the guys moving up is Michael Porter Jr. I reported on Monday that the Clippers possibly have interest in moving up for Porter. Clippers owner, Steve Ballmer, was hovering in the media section at the NBA Combine, and he said to some reporters, wait a minute, wait a minute, I got to go see this. And he walked over to Michael Porter's. media scrum and he just stood there lurking in the back for a couple seconds and balmer had mentioned Porter before in bill simmons podcast he saw him and had a lot of um games and with seattle yeah because he's in

seattle right yes nathan hale makes sense we'll we'll see what happens there but there's also talk to the kings love him and they're number two so i don't really see porter falling any further than six or seven danny what explains michael porter's rise after missing virtually the entire season at missouri You know, I think it's because he's a raw vegan. You know, veganism has kind of taken off. It's a hot trend. Lillard. Perfect for Lillard.

Damien Lillard started the season off, eating vegan, and look where he is now. He's a first team, all-MBA point guard. I think that's it. But no, like, looking back at the draft board, I'm sure a lot of teams are kind of trying to figure out maybe the gaps that they've missed. And you see Michael Porter maybe a little lower than you would have expected. And you're like, well, this guy was a consensus number one. for a while. He was definitely consensus top three. If his medicals are clear, what's stopping him from being that guy again? Sure. And if Michael Porter did end upcoming to LA, I would recommend he go to

Gracius Madre. I went there with my friend who was a big in and it's unbelievable. Crossroads, also good. Fantastic. I think with him, you know, like you said earlier, Danny, he was number one, number two, number three high school prospect before the season. Part of me wonders how much is our evaluation of him tainted from this really a no-show season for him that featured back surgery, which is pretty major. But if you're looking strictly at basketball, if the medical's good, if his back isn't going to be a problem,

if you're looking strictly at basketball, he's 6'10. 6'11, actually. 6'1, yeah, 6'10.7.5. I mean, that's what he's going to be listed out of so sure. He's really built. You know, he's got a pretty close to an NBA body as is. He can stroke threes off the dribble.

He can handle super confident player in today's league. You know, we talk so much about versatility and being able to defend multiple positions, projecting forward, he seems like the type of guy that can do that. So you got to essentially reset your evaluation sometimes at one point. And with Porter, I can understand Charg's like if a team is like, you know what, maybe this guy is actually the guy in the draft and we're just too worried about what happened during the season.

I think it's also worthwhile to remember. We've all watched him a lot at those international tournaments, especially the under 18 in South America last, I guess it was two summers ago now. Like there were legit questions about his game. Forget the back stuff. So, like, he's got the size, a shooting ability, but he wasn't much of a passer as a younger player. He didn't have a great first step as a younger player.

So he's got a lot of talent, but let's not forget that there are question marks. He was not even a sure thing before the injury. I mean, he's got talent for sure, but not a sure thing. The funny thing about that, Charks, is I talked to a couple executives at the NBA Combine of teams that interviewed Porter, and they started talking about his interviews.

And one of them mentioned how Porter was super confident during the interview. Like, they asked him, what are your weaknesses? And he's like, I have no weaknesses. basketball's like I work too hard or something one of those things yeah it was like yeah it was just a you know I care too much yeah he was cocky right he expressed that there's no weaknesses

basketball will take care of itself and the other executive chimed in same thing with us like we got the same exact five and it wasn't necessarily a knock against him because I think you want confidence but it's interesting because he does have weakness you kind of want a player who's cognizant of what he can improve on though ball handling

dude like he really needs to improve his handle and it's tough to read into that from the end of the season when he had a hard time curting off the dribble. But as Trucks just said, that was something that was apparent in high school as well, especially dribbling towards his left. Like, he needs to get better as a ball handler in order to become the scorer that you project him as. Like, he's just not going to happen. And even a guy who can, like, read the floor.

If you can traverse the court a little bit with more ease, the floor opens up. And maybe some of the decision making that he hasn't really shown in the past kind of blossoms once the ball handling comes in. And the other thing, too, to keep in mind, like, you're saying, about his confidence, Kevin. Like, you can see it in the court. I think we talked about us before, but, so he comes back from an injury.

He plays, like, two games. It takes like 17 shots a game. And after the game, he's like, yeah, I wasn't very healthy. It's like, well, then why are you taking 17 shots? Like, you have a good team around. They went to the NCAA tournament. We don't get to every time he touched the ball,

but that's just how he plays, it seems like. In other words, you're saying he has chucker potential. Oh, yeah. I mean, who doesn't? I would, too, if I was him, but it's something to think about. Charks, what's your comp Rushmore for Michael Porter, Jr. All right.

I'm going to start out hating real hard. I'd say his floor is Jeff Green. I think there's some of that there. He's not careful. Jeffrey. I would say like if he feels himself too much comp, it's Rudy Gay. If he just starts jacking all the time

and never really develops the rest of his game. But I would say this is not just an injury comp, but there's definitely some Nill Golanari in his game in terms of like just being a bigger point forward shooting wing guy. And then I'll say his ceiling is the great Joe Johnson, who gets very underrated nationally. If you're stealing as Joe Johnson, that's awesome because Joe Johnson was great.

That's a great comp. I am a big, big Joe Johnson fan, and it makes a lot of sense, too. Joe Johnson wasn't, he was a very big wing, but it wasn't like his wingspan was spectacular. It was actually pretty much the same as his height, actually. Like a Puerto. With the wingspan.

That's the KD comp, to me, is not even comparable. KD has got like a 7-5-7-6 wings. It's 7-5, I think. Like, it's a whole different ball game for KD. comp is just forget it. He's not Kevin Durant. I mean, let's not forget that when Thonmaker first arose onto the scene, he was compared as a cross between K.D. and Chris Paul.

And now he can't even run a pick and roll correctly half the time. You know what's funny is looking in the YouTube comments at like high school film. Yeah. Especially for Thonmaker. There's a lot of gems in there, I'm sure. Like he's like, cross between KD and KG. It's like, no. Sorry. Not at all.

Yeah, I'm going to hit, I'm hit show with the Earl Benson. Like I knew Kevin Durant. I watched him at college. I went to all his games of Texas. Michael Porter is not Kevin Durant. Just not. Charks, what does Porter need to do to become like the supersized version of a Joe Johnson? I mean, I just think he needs to work on polish his game.

He's a raw player right now. He's got to polish. He said polish the ball handling. Get a little thicker. Polish the jumper. Polished decision making. Like the tools are there, but he's got to work to do. He's not by any means of finished product.

It's funny because you mentioned Jeff Green and Joe Johnson. and those two guys, you know, coming into the league were kind of lauded as guys who made very good decisions with the ball could make the right pass, the right reads. Which is crazy to me. I can't believe Jeff Green machine. Right. That blows my mind. Yeah, I mean, it was partially the function of playing in Georgetown systems

and playing alongside Roy Hibbert. But, you know, with Joe Johnson, he was basically the backup point guard for the 0405 sons when Nash was out of the game, mainly because they didn't have any other options, but he was still, you know, relied upon to do that. And that's kind of where, like, I don't really see it for Porter. And even in Atlanta, Johnson was really one of the primary playmakers of a couple on the team. You know, not necessarily the quote-unquote point guard, but he was a playmaker.

And that's where Porter, yeah, you would like to see a little bit more passing vision from him. I think there's a little bit of his blinders on sometimes. But he's certainly an intriguing prospect that, look, if you're a team drafting two, three, and you're thinking Porter's the guy, you feel he is, maybe you trade down, or you know what, Maybe you just say, screw it. We're taking them right here at 2-3. If you need that go-to-scoring guy more so than a big, more so than the passing guy like Luca Dantritch.

I get it. I can understand it even though I don't necessarily subscribe to that same school of thought. Yeah, I mean, I don't think you can trade down too far with a guy like Porter's tool set. Like, I feel like the Mavs at 5 might be his floor. Like, I could see the Mavs taking him real quickly. I think so, too. I think Porter, that probably is his floor at 5, maybe 6 if they pass. Oh yeah, absolutely.

I think the magic pick them up immediately. Unless they fall in love with Tray Young. There's a long way to go. It's going to be super intriguing to see where a lot of these guys land. But we don't have any time for anymore today. Isaac, we need grades. Yeah, I'm going to start with Danny today. In true Danny Chow fashion, you pointed out Lucas diet, true to your brand as a foodie.

You know, we had a lot of diet talk in general, which is really, really fun. And so popular writer Danny Chow, you get an F for food. Oh, I thought it was going to be. Dude space. But all right, that's cool. That's cool. Either way, it's not a passing grade. Sorry, Mom.

Kevin O'Connor, you reported that my beloved Los Angeles Clippers could move up to get Michael Porter, Jr. I'm kind of ambivalent on Porter himself, but we did just extend Doc Rivers as our coach, who has never developed any young player ever. So it's not really the best environment for a raw guy like Porter Jr. Therefore, Kevin, you get a C for Clippers going clip. I'm cool with it. I like it. Thank you, Isaac. Jonathan Charks, you made a Japanese pitcher comp for Luca, saying that maybe the concern is that he's been playing a lot overseas.

And, you know, the latest Japanese import to the MLB is Shohei Otani, and he looks freaking great. He looks like a Hall of Famer. So I don't know about that comparison there. So you get a B for baseball. Hey, cross sport. So I've got cross sport talk here. Well, that's fun, guys.

Jonathan, thank you for calling in from Dallas. As always, Danny, thank you for joining the show. A pleasure. Isaac, thank you as well, man. Thank you. And thank you, Shay, for joining the show earlier, even though he hates me. Next week, it's the first Friday of the month. That means it's mailbag week.

So please submit questions for the mailbag by using Ringer NBA. Hashtag Ringer NBA on Twitter, Instagram, wherever we'll find it. Thank you so much for listening to the Ringer NBA show. Please rate the show five stars on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast for extra credit. please check out the ringer's 2018 NBA draft guide at nbaidraft.com. Special shout out to my friend and the biggest NBA fan I know, Elon Musk. I appreciate him for reading my article about the Rockets and the Warriors, despite blasting the media and journalism as a whole.

Appreciate it, Elon. Anyway, we'll talk to you next Friday. Thank you so much for listening. Have fun. Peace out.