The Ringer NBA Show - Rookie Standouts: Zion, Herro, Morant, Barrett, and More! Plus: KAT’s Next Step | Group Chat

Episode Date: October 16, 2019

With the regular season right around the corner, we examine the rookies with the most outstanding preseason performances (1:09). Then, we discuss the career trajectory of Minnesota Timberwolves superstar Karl-Anthony Towns (35:41). Host: Justin Verrier Guest: Jonathan Tjarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ringer MBA show is presented by State Farm. The moment we've all been waiting for is about to arrive, the official start to the NBA season. The offseason was filled with a lot of big changes in fresh starts. For the fresh starts in your life, talk to a State Farm agent. So when it comes to insurance, you don't have to go it alone. I am very excited for the fresh start of Zion Williamson. He's been killing it in preseason. We're going to talk about that a little bit with sharks here.

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The Knicks actually need more power forwards. Basketball is very good. Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is the group chat. I am Justin Varyer. Isaac Lee is on the ones and twos this week. And Chris Ryan is not with us for our last show right before the regular season.

A bit of load management in the preseason while we still can. But joining us from Dallas, Jonathan Charks. What's up, buddy? Well, in honor of this NBA season, we're going with a big two today on group chat. That's right. We have Isaac here as our Lou Williams. Lou Williams, are you more of a Trez?

I consider myself more of a trez, but either way, it's a compliment. A lot of activity. I'm going to say you're more of a Landry Shammit. You're a sniper. You come and get your takes in really fast. All right, we're going to talk a little bit about Carl Towns. Charks did a story about that today on the ringer.com.

We're going to get into some rookies in the preseason because those are the players that really are kind of popping off here. I really haven't heard a ton about anyone except for rookies as we've gone through the past few weeks. First, let's talk about China and the, the NBA. There really isn't much more to this story that's happened overnight. I imagine something will happen while we're recording, which will make this entirely moot. But LeBron James talked at Lakers practice yesterday and pretty much tried to chew away the story. He said it was the last

he's going to talk about it. ESPN published a story from David McMinneman later that evening in which I think pretty much crystallized where LeBron probably falls on this whole thing, which is, it seems like he's more upset with the league maybe being in a double standard position where they want the players to kind of be front and center with this and really kind of taking the brunt in terms of just like accounting for it, at least with the media and just in the public. But for the most part, he's still staying away from actually addressing that. So it's a worthwhile re, but I'm not sure there's really much more to it. But we're going to keep track of that as the games go on. Because obviously if things happen with loss of money and BRI and salary cap, that's

going to affect the game and what we're doing this season. But for the most part, I think a lot of people are ready to turn the page on the China's story and talk about the season. Because of that, we're going to talk about some rookies. Charks, have you been paying a lot of attention to the preseason? I mean, not a ton, but enough to talk about them on this podcast. That's all that matters. That's all we need to do.

We just need to make the content. We're going to go through. Charks did a series in August as we were waiting for basketball to come back into our lives called the Rookie. curve. It was the second year. He's done that for us where he kind of looks at some of the more prominent rookies and the battles ahead they have in their first season. We're going to do a version of that just sorry off the top just because a lot of these guys have shown some things that probably they didn't even show in Summer League. And a lot of them actually played John Morant,

Zion Williamson, the two guys that really didn't get to see much in Vegas. But let's talk a little bit about what we've seen over the past couple of weeks. I think the only way place to start here is really Zion. Charks, he has been just crushing. He is shooting 71% from the floor right now. I know it's preseason, but we're going to have a story on the ringer tomorrow about how that's historic, at least from since I think 2005, what it was. What's your biggest takeaway from Zion in his, I believe, four preseason games? Well, I think what stands out when you watch him, I mean, if he's playing at power forward and as the league gets smaller at the four, and like, how are these power forward is going to guard him.

Right? Like, so he played Utah, and they're playing, like, Joe Ingalls and Boyan and Bogdanovich at the four. Zion's got like 60 pounds. Yeah, I think that's the thing that really jumped out to me. We talked a little bit about him last week with Chris, but I knew he was explosive. But I think when you don't see him in a live ball situation, you start to kind of really focus on what an odd just physical specimen he is and just like how he is this bowling ball

and you're not really used to seeing that. But when you see him matched up against guys like Collins, you could just see his athleticism just kind of really take over and really jump off the page. And that's been really exciting for me to see, just that he can be the guy I think we're all expecting him to, right? Do you see him bully Rudy Gobert at one point? That was ridiculous.

The Gobert thing is incredible. I think that's the thing. I worry too much about his size, his lack of shooting, but it does feel like his speed and quickness and just like his overall aggressiveness. is really going to make a difference, even against NBA veterans. Yeah, and the smart thing

that warns were doing in this preseason, what I was kind of worried about when they signed favors and drafted Jackson Hayes number eight, and those are two centers on with shooting range, is if those two guys are playing most of the game, you can kind of clog the landing in Zion. But if they're playing him with Nicola Melli,

the European big men they brought, like a six-nine stretch four, all of a sudden, if the paints open and Zion's one-on-one, it's going to be hard to stop. That's the thing with the Pelicans. It's just they have too many good guys. They've acquired too many assets.

And to the point where I watched that Hawks game, which I believe is his first game, is preseason debut. And Derek Favors a guy that I am high on this season. I think you are two sharks. Just getting to play center finally after being forced to play in the front court with Rudy Gobert for so many years,

he kind of was ancillary, he kind of was forgettable. And I do wonder if those sorts of intriguing guys ultimately are going to kind of fall into very limited roles because this is really the Zion show. He needs to stay in the corner. Like I hate to say it, but Zion's doing his thing. He's the number one pick. You've got to get out of his way.

So to me, favors Anne Hayes, I'd worry if I were them because Zion's got to get to the rim. And they almost have to play smaller, given what he's doing already. Right, right. Yeah. I do wonder, though, the one thing that I think is kind of just looming there in the background are the shooting issues. The free throw form is pretty ugly. So he's shooting 71% from the field, as I mentioned,

but 25% from 3 and 69% from free throw range. I guess are you concerned at all? Is this the type of thing where we look back in December and we're like, oh, yeah, this is actually a red flag and teams are just going to put him on the line whenever possible? I think he's going to get a lot of free throws, for sure. I think he's going to get to the line a ton,

but I don't know that you necessarily want him to do that because it's going to get the team on the bonus. And if you look at like Ben Simmons, remember Ben Simmons rookie year? No one was like worrying about the jumper really because it didn't matter. Like it'll matter in like a playoffs series, sure. But in a regular season game with his physical ability,

I mean, Simmons was fine until the playoffs, two, three years ago, whenever it was now. Right. So this is really his honeymoon phase. We're going to see the best of Zion. We're going to be wild by the highlights. We're going to see him on Instagram every time we pull up our feeds. But perhaps the nuance and everything won't be there,

which is kind of why I, am not super high on the Pelicans as a playoff team. I just think they have a lot of young guys overall, but if their whole season is dependent on Zion kind of being transformative from the jump, he's going to go through these growing pains, even if he is

this monster. Do you remember Blake Griffin in 2010 when he got Moskov and it was like the biggest story in the NBA for like two months? Right, right, yes. And he was just dunk on everyone. I'm hoping that happens again. It'd be fun to watch. Right, yeah. There's nothing wrong with the honeymoon phase. That was actually

probably Blake Griffin's best year in terms of just like pure enjoyment like not as a basketball Isaac is looking at me with a befuddled look not as like a like actual good basketball I was all down there like he was a top five MVP one season

right no but I think immediately after he got really sullen and like all of his preening and antics really kind of colored how we viewed him I think as a celebrity as a star you know what happened is Chris Paul came to town I've heard that yeah Yes, and that doesn't help when it comes to making other NBA players sullen.

But yeah, it does feel like we're in for that season with Zion. So I'm excited. I think that's definitely the thing that I'm most looking forward to this NBA season. Something that perhaps our boss Bill Simmons is particularly interested in these days are a couple Celtics bros, a couple Celtics draft picks whom before like yesterday hadn't really like popped on my radar. But young Carson Edwards from Purdue, famous mostly in my life from. one of the best memes of all time where he was telling one of his teammates to calm down. Eight three...

I missed this meme. What are you talking about? Yeah, it wasn't last year. It was the year before that. He had a very tall, gingly teammate whose hair he had to slick back. And I guess he had just... Oh, the guy was like 7.3. I know you're talking about.

He's a super tall guy. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. And he was apparently upset about something. And Carson Edwards does the like, okay, calm down. And it's among one of my favorites. Justin, you've got to watch Shenzate Tournament, man.

Carson's jumping like 40 points last year. That should be your top memory of Carson Edwards. Yeah, no, I definitely checked out out of college a little bit more than I cared to admit last year because then I looked up his stats. And apparently he was taking almost 11 threes per game. I was like, oh, that seems significant, especially after last night, where he hit eight made threes in the third quarter alone. That was Tuesday against Cleveland. I believe that he only had nine minutes in that quarter. I was seeing that, like, I think he hit the three a minute.

Yeah, like it was to the point where Brad Stevens was literally astonished after the game. Are we in for Isaiah 2.0 with Carson Edwards is my question for you, Charks. I was thinking more Patty Mills, probably. Okay, that's a good comp. Yeah, he's going to get points this year. I don't know much about Edwards. Do you have much hope for him to be like a significant contributor? I think he can score, get points off the bench.

You can shoot from anywhere. He can shoot off the dribble. He can run around screens and shoot. The reason he wasn't the first round pick is because he didn't play much defense. He didn't really pass all that much. He's like 6'1. He just shot constantly. So, you know, there's a question of the rest of his game.

But on a team like Boston with other good players around him who can kind of facilitate, he can coming off the bench and score. And I think there's a role for him in this team. I could see him playing all year and having games like this where he comes in. The dude can score from anywhere. He's ridiculous. Yeah, Boston does have a knack for finding these guys. I guess the issue is that they are starting to have a type here just a little bit.

I do wonder with Kemba and Carson, like let's say Carson does solidify himself to the point where he is a significant contributor, the guy getting, if not starters, minutes, then maybe six man, seven men, something like that. It's a lot of little guys because also Marcus Smart is going to be a big factor in this team. Jason Tatum, obviously, Gordon Hayward. They don't really have a set center that I think will make a huge impact. they're really hoping on Daniel Dice and Ennis Cantor and our guy Time Lord will really fill... Time Lord. Who I think in like his first preseason game played a minute or just like got pulled immediately. So I'm not really super encouraged by him.

But yeah, I guess we'll see with Edwards. It is an incredible one quarter. But I wonder if he's exhausted all of his magic already. You want to talk about Grant Williams. Well, you were talking about them not really having much of a center option. This guy might be their best center. It's crazy. He's like 6-5-66, but he's built like a tank. He's a really smart player. He's shooting threes. He was more of a mid-range post guy in college, and he's shooting threes now in the preseason.

I could see this is a guy of Brad Stevens is going to love. And he was like a real good analytics guy. They're a question about his size coming out of the draft. But I could see Williams having a big role this season for Boston, given their lack of size at front. So he's 6-7. He's 240. But this is a lot of the season. But this is a big role. is kind of my concern. I mean, it seems like the Celtics, their fate and how well they're going to play this season is going to rest on their ability to play in small ball

situations, no? Yeah, I don't see them having the size to play traditionally. I mean, right? Like, why lose the canter if you can play small? At least you have a chance to win this way if you play smaller. Right. I mean, I wonder if Marcus Smart will be functionally their center at times in small ball lineups.

And I just wonder, given the size in Milwaukee and now especially in Philadelphia, if we're really going to see them at a disadvantage, especially if, like, you know, Jason Tatum's shot doesn't come back. If Gordon Hayward isn't the guy from Utah, he's the guy from last year who just like completely seemed just afraid to get to the rim at time. So I don't know. Do you have any specific feeling on Boston going into the season? You know what's funny? So they were taught, we were talking to Porzingis. and he said, really, it was going up against Marcus Smart that kind of forced him to work on his post game

and scoring over smaller players. Because apparently at some point, Smart just locked him up, like maybe two years ago now. I'd like 6'4 and a 7-3 guy. So, I mean, it's hard to post that Mark is smart. He's a freaking tank. Yeah, and he did have the Team USA experience.

He did show that he can have that impact on the defense event, at least, for a team team that completely, failed us as a country, but that's fine. I also, Charks wanted to bypass this Celtic segment without talking about Taco Fall. But I got to say, I love me some Taco. Just a meme king, Justin. It's all you know about these guys. They're in memes. It's really a great way to connect with our audience, just talking about memes, like a couple of 40-year-olds. But yes, Taco Fall. He's 7'6. It seems like the crowd just loves him. Every time he does something,

he just got a huge ovation from the Celtic crowd. He's going to be in Maine, I guess, for most of the year. But I for one hope that he makes his way back to the big league club. Is there any hope of him actually playing significant minutes in the NBA ever? Maybe. I mean, if you can run a two, three zone out there, maybe he could be like Bobon come in for like five minutes at a time. Kind of change the game a little bit.

New Bobon? It's possible. It's possible. I mean, he's just so freaking big. I mean, at this point, Bobon is really just, both an actor and just specifically an actor in commercials. So I could definitely see Taco filling that role, especially his name just lends itself.

A John Wick villain. Right, right. I can't believe you're slandering the name of my guy Beaumont. He can't play actual minutes. He shoots threes. He's going to play for Dallas to show. He is. He shot like A3 or two threes.

More than Ben Simmons. This is, this is. So maybe Taco Fall can be that guy. I don't know. It's funny. there was practice or pregame footage that came out right before the game. I think it was before this Cleveland game of him attempting to shoot threes. I don't really think it was him working at his range so much as just like messing around.

And for one, the ball comes from his waist, which I'm like, oh no. And then the way, because his arms are so long, it's almost like they work in just different phases where in order to get it like in front of his face is one and then to actually get it extended. Like a trebice or something? Right. Exactly, yes. And so perhaps this is a little bit tougher for him than our guy Bobon, but I want him to succeed.

I want everything good for Taco. Maybe, like, if he extends out all the way out, he's probably like five feet closer, and he can kind of like underhand the ball into the basket. Right. As long as he's at the rim, he could just dunk it. Like, that's literally what they were doing. They were running pick and rolls for him.

He would get to the rim somehow, and they would just loft it, and he would catch it and barely even jump, and he would dunk it. I just love it. I hope it works out for him. There was a guy, I remember a couple years ago, a Mamadu Anjai. He was like 7-7 or something. And he ended up being an Uber for my father-in-law, an Uber driver.

I was like, man. Wait, really? My father-in-law texting a picture. This guy playing in the NBA, because he's 6'7. And this guy's just towering over him after he got out of the Uber. And I was like, yeah, I know who that is. That's really unfortunate. Is this recently?

I think it was last year. Wow. What a fall for our guy. I'm saying. It's tough out there. Right. And his canter was also filming Taco Fall in a car recently. So perhaps this is just like our destiny with these tall guys to just witness them in cars.

All right, let's pivot here to a guy who plays nothing like Taco Fall. He is Tyler Hero of the Miami Heat. I'm disappointed, Sharks, because he was on your initial list for rookie curve targets. We were going to write about him. But we didn't end up getting to him. And now it seems like he's kind of becoming a thing. Yeah. Let me tell you my favorite Tyler Hero story. So he's from Wisconsin. And if you don't really know much about Wisconsin's one of those like Big Ten state schools where the state school is like the biggest thing in the state. And he commits to University of Wisconsin, I think he's a high school junior. And everyone's like, oh, that's great. We're next Sam Decker. He can go to Wisconsin, go to the league. And then Kentucky starts recruiting him. And he decides to break his commitment to Wisconsin and commit to Kentucky. And everyone in Wisconsin just freaking hates him.

Like, you're a traitor, blah, blah, blah. And Hero just tells them, hey, I'm freaking awesome. I can't be going to Wisconsin and throwing playing post-up basketball. I got to go get buckets. I'm just that good to be playing in a national school. So y'all can chill out. I just love the confidence. He's like, I'm just great.

I can't be playing a small school like this. Come on. Yeah, no, it definitely comes through. I think that's partly what turned me off about him to begin with because he does have this air of cockiness. But as we've seen earlier in this preseason, even in Summer League to a certain extent, I think it's paying off

because he looks like he belongs on a court immediately. I think you kind of have to be confident if you're in his shoes because people are going to test you. If you have any kind of lack of confidence, you've got to come in like extra hard, basically, if you're a talent hero.

Let him know you're for real. Right. I mean, so he's shooting 53% from three in three preseason games now, admittedly a very small sample size. But he hit four straight Monday against the Hawks and he scored Miami's first 14 points.

Now, he definitely won't do that going forward. He shot 33% from three at Summer League, and he shot 35, 36% in college. But it does seem like his range is legit. And on a team like Miami, who has a lot of interesting parts, but perhaps no one really liked Tyler Hero, it seems like he could be a significant contributor for this team.

I think so. What stood out to me in that game was against Atlanta. So he's starting on the perimeter next to Jimmy Butler and Justice Winslow. So that's two, what, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7 guys, freaking huge. Atlanta has to put Trey Young on Hero because obviously you can't put Trey Young on J. Butler or Justice Winslow, that's not going to work.

And then Hero can just shoot over Trey Young because it's nothing. And if you look at it, he's one of the rare guys. If he's starting, he gets to hide on defense because he's playing with Jimmy and Justice, right? So whoever the worst offensive player is, Hero gets to hide on him. And then when he's on offense, they're going to put the worst offender on him, most likely. Because you can't put an undersized guard against a 6-6-67 guy like Justice or Jimmy.

So really, he's in the perfect spot to have a good season. I think this could really work well as a synergy effect going on. Yeah, I do wonder how much Miami's just the fact that they could put up so many defensive menaces out there and they have the potential to be a very good defensive team this year, if it allows them to be a little bit more lax with some of their combinations. it would flip the other way as opposed to, you know, because they're such a good defense, they can put a guy like hero out there

and really cover and help themselves out on offensive end. I don't know how you're feeling about Miami, but as this kind of preseason has gone along, as I've seen Jimmy kind of settle in there, I'm a little bit more hopeful that they might be in the mix for a top four seat in the east. Yeah, I think so. I think A, Spolster's a really good coach.

He's going to find the right combinations. B, we saw Jimmy last year in the playoffs. he was amazing. He played like a top 10 player. So you've got an elite player, you've got an elite coach, and you've got a lot of interesting moving parts. I think they'll be able to find the right mix.

I imagine, you know, end of the game, they'll probably go Jimmy at the four. You have Bam, you know, justice. Then you've just got to find

some shooting around those guys. And that's where you get Waiters, Hero, Kelly Illenic, Myers, Leonard, you know, and this team, this team to me,

I think it might make a trade too at some point this season. Yeah, I mean, when you have new Reallel Allen and Tyler Hero. Things really come together for you. Well, at least be the next Luke Knard. You don't have to be Ray Allen just here. Right. Right. Exactly. All right. Let's take a break there. We're going to come back and talk about some other rookies that we've been keeping an eye on this preseason as well as Charks' story on Carl Anthony Towns.

Today's episode of group chat is brought to you by the Google Assistant. The Google Assistant is ready to help you get more done with just your voice in the car, at home, and everywhere you Take your phone. Hey Google, how many three-point shots has JJ Reddick hit in his career? Here's what I have for JJ Reddick, a career total of 1,700 for three-pointers. A little help, hands-free. Just say, hey, Google, to get started. All right, let's pivot just slightly here to a guy who's near and dear to my heart. One John Morant, the future rookie of the year, I've been a Morant stand for going on maybe two weeks now.

It's a really, really get on the bus sort of situation here with me. So he played against the Hornets the other night. And as I was looking to catch up on Young Jah to see what he's been up to this preseason, I found at least five different highlights of him doing things such as going behind his back and then through his legs at one point in order to get by a defender. He missed a dunk where he almost completely obliterated someone at the rim. It looked very Westbrookian in the way that he just kind of just stormed the lane and almost threw it down on someone. He did a 360 in warmups just kind of messing around.

And he was so fast at one point. He was not even at mid-court. And he beat the entire defense to the rim and scored with these. So I'm at the point with Morant where I don't know. I'm starting to feel like he could be a pretty good player in this league. Am I wrong? Yeah, I think it's really set up well for him. So I was in Memphis last week doing some stuff,

during a story. So I got to kind of watch them up close and personal. And it really feels like they're going to maximize him. So when I was there, they had Valanchunis was out. So they were playing Jaron Jackson as a starting center. And then as the backup center, they were playing Bruno Caboclo. So they were going like spread, pick and roll,

five out basketball, game. And that's really where Jaws at his best is getting to the lane and then passing the ball other people. So if they're playing him with four shooters around him and letting him run to the rim constantly, he stood a pretty good year. And yeah, in person, his speed is ridiculous. He just blows by people. He was matched up against R.J. Hampton, who's probably going to be a top 10 pick next year. And he was just blowing by him at Will, basically. And it's just rare you see a guy who's that fast, who's that good a passer.

It really reminded me of the air and Fox. Oh, that's interesting. Because when I watched him, and perhaps this is because an article he wrote earlier this year about him, it definitely saw Westbrook without maybe the bulk or they're kind of just that muscular physique that Westbrook has. There's just something about him

where it's a combination of confidence and speed and just his crafty ball handling skills. It's just like, I could see. that forming, and I could already see myself just engaged in debates about whether or not he is actually worthy of being talked about as much as he is. I don't know. I am very hype on him, and I can't wait to watch my favorite team, the Memphis Christmas is this year. I think my concern with Jha would be if he's getting to the rim so much at his size, right? Because Westbrook is so big he can take hits? And Jaws don't have such a high usage rate.

I just worry, can he hold up for 82 games? I mean, he was going from, he was playing last year. called the Ohio Valley Conference. Right. He was playing in basically high school gyms against like much, much less physically gifted players. So can his body take that punishment night after night? Because he's going to get hit a lot.

If I was a defense against John Morant, I'm making him shoot and I'm hitting him. Right, yeah. So I guess it depends a lot on how much shooting he'll have around him perhaps to clear some of those bodies out of the lane, which means like guys like Jaron Jackson matter. And I do wonder, as I look up and down this roster, even if they do want to play a more modern style,

if they want to get up and down, if they do want to put Jaron Jackson out in the perimeter more, like, where is it going to come outside of him? Yeah, it's tough. So when I was there, like the big debate we were having in the press box was, is a starting two guard Dylan Brooks or Grace and Allen? Like, that's the level of, you know, debate they're having there right now.

That's not great because Anthony Melton is also her, a guy that I think they're high on and I don't know. I don't really know what he would be. in his second year, even if he was kind of healthy here. He has to be able to shoot it if playing with Jock, because Jaws is not a great shooter, and Jah wants to get and pass to other guys. So Jaws got to have shooting around them.

So, yeah, Josh Jackson, save them, wherever you may be, Josh. He's in, uh, well, they're in northern Mississippi, I think they're J-O team. They practice in Memphis, so they practice at the facility and play like 20 minutes away in Mississippi. That sounds terrible. All right, let's kind of pivot here to a guy who went right after

John Morant in the, draft, RJ Barrett. We talked about him a little bit last week, too. So the big thing I think that's happened since then, it seems like David Fitzdale is more open to the idea of playing him as a point guard or at the very least labeling him as a point guard when he is handling the ball. The specific quote from Fisdale was, I'm going to sprinkle that in here and there. So that's nice to see. So a little light flavor on top, you know. Right, right. And I don't really think much of this because when we get into labels with some of these more positionally flexible guys, it becomes basically a question of semantics.

But I do think it's encouraging that they're more willing to give him the ball because they have so many guys on this team who need the ball and will be ball handlers. Yeah, my thought, so I'm looking at their preseason statistics, RJ is averaging 14 field goal attempts per game and two assists per game. So he's number one of field goal attempts and number one, two, three, six and assists. So my thought is perhaps Fisdale is trying to encourage him to pass the ball. So if he's a point guard, what are you going to get out of pass the ball? Right, yes.

So that is his primary motivation. It's more about like setting him on a course rather than maybe just defining who he is in the NBA right now. I think he's better when he passes. So, like, RJ gets tendency at college was to start just jacking shots and rushing, forcing his own office. offense, but really he's much better when he can pass first, make the defense kind of rotate, then take shots against a rotating defense. RJ can't just shoot every time, which is what he wants to do. The thing with RJ is he's actually a pretty good passer. He just has to want to do it. Right. And the Knicks need to want him to be, like his development to be at the top of their

list, which I'm not too sure. I mean, there's been talk about Alfred Payton starting alongside Barrett, and that's a guy who plays similarly to a certain extent just because he needs to be pass first to have really any effect on the court. And Julius Randall, another guy who I think is best when he's attacking downhill. Yeah, I'm looking at their preseason stats. Like their top six guys in minutes, R.J. Barrett, Bobby Portis, Kevin Knox, Julius Randall, Alfred Payton, Marcus Morris. They all need the ball.

This would be a fun thing to watch see if they don't kill each other. This is going to be a lot of guys going to be unhappy in New York, I feel like. I could definitely see the hype train like happening, though, amongst Nick's fans. I think they've gotten to the point in the season, in the preseason, where they realize there isn't a lot of hope. So they're just clinging on to any good RJ moments. I don't know if they're going to be a lot of them this season, but I guess, you know, that's really the only thing that they have in this team because I am not a big Knox believer. I'm not a big Smith believer. And they're really just a bunch of veterans after that.

But here's the beauty of it, Justin. If you shoot enough times, eventually it will go in, right? So you'll have some moments. Yes, that's how I live my entire life. High volume. You miss every take you don't drop, right? You know, got to get a mouth. This is true.

All right, well, we're going to wrap it here with Michael Porter Jr. I watched some more of him. I saw him on an ESPN game where he played limited minutes. He played the other day a little bit more. I think he had 11 points and a couple of blocks. To me, he looks incredibly stiff, which is probably something. I saw that, yeah. I mean, you can expect it from a guy who's had so many back problems,

but at the same time, I'm watching him and I'm kind of wincing as he's making his moves. I get where you're coming from. He's not as used to be athletic-wise. He definitely seems like he's kind of become like, it's very monsters, where someone like zap the athletic ability out of him a little bit. Right. And there were a couple plays where, like, Yokic set him up, and he was completely just alone in the paint, just looking for the ball.

And they have so many good players on this team that, if he is like just doing things off of activity for a couple minutes a game, if he is just another long body that you could throw out there and get some playing time, that's something. But I don't know. At a certain point, I called him just a guy who could swing the NBA season if he is pretty good,

simply because the Nuggets will have a lot of assets and thus would be able to do things in the trade market. But I don't know. I'm starting to think that that might be a little bit farther away than I had hoped. But I will say, if you're a six foot 10, six foot 11 perimeter player, you don't have to be crazy athletic. You're already so huge.

And you're a good shooter. That's what I was watching. And I was like, oh yeah, this guy's almost seven feet tall playing at three. So that alone, if you can do that, there's value there,

even if you're not dunk on fools, right? Just being so big. Yeah, totally. And I do wonder, though, like if Jeremy Grant is in there, like, and Paul Millsap is obviously going to get minutes.

Yokic, obviously, like, where the minutes for him come from. I mean, if they're going to still be invested in Plumley, who's probably going to be a better defender than Porter will ever be in his career. It is crazy. They're a freaking stack with talent this team. They're so deep.

Yeah, they have too many guys, I think. And that's why I think they make the most sense if Bradley Beale is going to leave Washington. And I would assume that would happen sooner rather than later. I do wonder if they're just a natural fit for that. It does seem to line up a Beale. To me, the question is, if you're trading for Beale, do you want to trade Jamal Murray or Gary Harris? Because one of those two has to go back

of the trade, right? Yeah, I think on that team, let's say that Beal is there, I think it makes the most sense to pair him with Murray just because you have more ball handling there. Really? See, I worry about defense if it's Murray and Beal.

Yeah, that's a good point, but who's initiating the offense? Do you just rely on Yokic? Yeah, I mean, if you trade Murray, you have Beal and Yokic, and they're both initiators, then you play defensive guys around them. Then I wonder like, because, so if you trade Beal and you have Beal Murray Yokic, do you think,

is Beal the third option there? Is he cool with that? I guess that is. Because you know Jamal Murray is going to get his shots up. That's going to. Right. As we saw in the playoffs and it could go one way or the other pretty quickly. Yeah.

Jamal knows what he's paid to do out there. Jamal got paid, what, $170 million? Yeah, yeah. He's now on a max extension, which... He's not changing his game now after that kind of cash. Yeah, that's the thing with Murray. He's just so talented. and I think the ceiling is way higher,

but who knows if he'll ever reach what he could be, whereas with Harris, I think there's some cost certainty, now? Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. I hear everyone saying Harris for Beal, but I just wonder, well, that can, well, if it's Murray Beal Yokic, I just wonder,

because then you're really going to say Yokic not get his shots. Because you know Bill wants his shots, too. Beal played, what, eight years of John Wall as a second option, then Wall gets hurt, he gets the number one option, he runs point, and had his best year of his career.

And now he's supposed to go to Denver and be the third option. Like, I just wonder about the chemistry with that. Yeah. I would assume that after being in Washington for so long, he'd maybe like just relish the idea of winning, you know, of a change of scenery and perhaps playing some relevant basketball

because it doesn't seem like he's in line for that. He went to a game seven in the second round. I know. What, two years ago? Yeah. Those wizard series, they all blend together to me. They were pretty brutal, for sure. Like the whole wearing black to a funeral thing,

it's honestly one of the saddest playoff chapters of recent history. It's just like, who cares? Yeah, it was tough. I mean, Kelly Olinick knocked them out one year. Like, come on. But yeah, I do think it would be interesting if he ended up on that team.

I think they are probably going to finish. All right, I'm just going to lean into the take. I think they're going to finish at the top of the West simply because of their consistency because they already have something that works, whereas a lot of these teams in the West are still figuring themselves out. and I could see

Beal just taking them over the top. And the thing that's not to me with Denver, if you look at their roster, other than Yokic, if anybody else goes down, they can plug someone else

in pretty comfortably. So they're pretty injury-proof compared to most other teams. And over a long season, like if Murray goes down, they can just plug in some guards, run some more stuff through Yokic. If Milsaq goes down,

they have Jeremy Grant. If Gary Harris was down, they have Malik Beasley. They just got guys at every position if somebody gets hurt. And I feel like that's what the best record season team is going to have to have is that kind of depth. Yeah, I mean, in garbage time when Porter was playing big minutes, I remember Wancho,

Hernan Gomez was out there. I'm like, man, we thought this guy was going to be a star. It's like a 12th man. Yeah. Remember when he was going to be like the sixth man for this team at a certain point? He had a good run in Spain for the World Cup team. There's no minutes for him here. Yeah. RIP, Wancho's reign in Denver. All right, that's enough rookie talk for now. we're going to pivot to the story Charks wrote for The Ringer today. It was a feature on Carl Anthony Towns, basically outlining why Towns could be in for a pretty significant year this year. I think he's a guy that everybody has had high hopes for. And although he's had good individual numbers, he's been in All-Star Games, he's been on an all-MBA team.

He really hasn't really solidified himself as kind of a top-10 guy. But Charks, you spent some time up in Minnesota talking to him and guys around him. I guess first let's talk about the keys for Towns. What will make this his year? I think the main thing is the way he's going to be used. There was an interesting line. So I was talking to Ryan Saunders, and he said something. He goes, you have to make sure that you're respecting this guy's talent.

And that really stuck with me because if you look at what's happened before, pretty clearly, Tom Tibido does not respect Carl Towns' talent. Tom Tibido was like, you're getting in my way. I got Jenny Butler, go post up, stop bothering me. Right? And they just never really, he never really believe in this guy as a featured player. Now that Jimmy's gone, now that Tibbs is gone. It seems like this new management in Minnesota, how do we maximize Carl Towns?

That was their first question. Whereas the old management, that was going to be question number eight or nine. And I think now they're like, okay, how do we make the best out of Carl Towns? Well, this guy is arguably the best streaming men of all time. he has the highest career 3. Percentage 70-footer. Let's use this. Let's make most this kind of ability.

Yeah, it's crazy to think that you have perhaps one of the most talented guys in the NBA, a guy whose game is just completely unique in the scope of recent history. And you're like, actually, we're going to just follow Tom Tibido and just like

grind out basketball and Jimmy Butler has all this other stuff. Yeah, it's like we had this Lamborghini, but we're going to get into a freaking, what's it called? with those two cars to each other a lot and a little fire pit

like something like that's crazy you had this like sports monster trucks? That's the one yeah Monster trucks okay like you're turning a lambo into a monster truck

it's just it doesn't make any sense yeah and I was talking to towns and I asked him this question I was like how are you going to be used differently this year

and the way you responded I just like felt his pain he's like bro you don't even know man I'm going to be used at all it's crazy that's what basically told me yeah

and we saw that toward the end of last season where Saunders takes over and all of a sudden it's the town show and his numbers are insane. I do wonder though, as I look at this roster, even though they did make some good moves, getting guys like Jordan Bell in there, guys who will potentially fit with Towns and help him reach his potential, guys like Jared Culver and the draft who are switchable and could help on the defensive end where they've been really porous since Towns has been there pretty much, if there's enough there to make enough of a leap as a team.

Yeah, it's hard to say. They have so many things that have to go right to be a playoff team in the West. I think it starts this year with how can we maximize towns? And once we've maximized them, how has everybody else fit around him? I get the feeling there's going to be

a lot of trades happening over the next year or two. I mean, John, when you have a new GM takeover, this is not anything I've heard. This is me speculating. But my guess would be in three years, the only guys left on this roster are Carl Towns and Jared Culver. I bet everybody else is out of here. Yeah, I believe Jeff Teague is on an expiring contract. Yeah, last year for Teague.

I mean, Andrew Wiggins, like, even when we were talking about towns, like, earlier this week, he's just like, he's just a non-factor. He's just the guy that's there. He's basically a cap hold at this point. What I think is interesting is, do they try to look at this as a one-to-two-year process to show to town? that, you know, we're ready to win, we want to invest in you, let's go. Or do they think of the big picture, they have towns on this extension, is this going to be a multi-year process? I think they're trying to think big.

They know we have them for five years, so we don't have to rush it right away. Because the last thing you want to do is box yourself in again by like making a lot of win now moves. And that was something that I talked to Roses, the new GM. And he basically, he said, we don't want to be. selfish or short-sighted with the moves we make to try to win now, which seems to me, you know, a little bit of a sub-tweet there. Like, we're not going to rush things. I mean, I'm watching the Bulls and Zach Levine is scoring at will. Like, can you mind if they had Levine

in towns? That'd be amazing. Yeah. I mean, the comp that I always bring up, because I am a one-note former Pelicans beatwriter, but also I think it's relevant considering their games and where they were at this point in their career is just Anthony Davis. And I was one who would say when you sign Davis to the extension, you should have started thinking four years down the road, not next year. Instead, they played season to season and it ended up with Davis

ultimately wanting out. I think the wrinkle, now that we look at the landscape of the league, that probably wasn't there when Davis was going through the same thing, is just guys won out sooner. And I do wonder, and this is something that is at the top of my list

in terms of things this season, if the next wave of guys, if the Simmons, if the towns, if the DeAngelo Russell's, if they don't get what they want immediately, if that's going to become an issue sooner. Maybe, but if I'm the wolves, I don't care. You're here for five years.

Yeah. Like, I'm not starting over again. Yeah. What are you going to do about it? That's definitely how management should take that. Like, that's the perspective they should take because, like, ultimately towns can't do anything. But at the same time, he really is their team

and they're out there saying he is their team. And if he just doesn't want to get there, Guys have really found a way to get where they want. I do think what they're hoping, their best chance to surprise people is like the power of a center shooting threes. So they're going to be a lot smaller this year. They used to start. It used to be towns, Taj Gibson.

This year it'll be towns Robert Covington. And that team is going to be, they're going to hurt inside with kind of a smaller front line. But if your center is taking like seven or eight threes a game and your power forward's taking like seven or eight threes a game, you're going to have a lot of. a room to attack the rim. It's going to be really hard to guard you. And I think the idea is, remember how Brooke Lopez opened up the offense from Milwaukee? Imagine if Brooke Lopez could shoot off the dribble and score 35 points a night. And if that's happening, does the defense attract so much attention to Carl Towns that he makes Jeff Teague better, even Wiggins. Yeah. Because now the lane is

wide open. If Wiggins is like the fifth guy out there and is just scoring off of activity, like that would be helpful. Yeah, I had some clips on my article of Towns hitting Wiggins cutting. That's one thing Wiggins can do is shoot layups. So let's simplify the game for you. What a low bar there. Just take a bunch of layups. That's what we need you to do. The max player on our roster is good at layups. Hey, let's start somewhere. Okay? We're starting over. It's a new day. Yeah, there really isn't much more you could do there. I don't know if he has any trade value there. I personally would love to see a situation where the thunder just get really ballsy and they'd pull a Wiggins for Chris Paul sort of situation just because they have such a long pathway.

I don't think Minnesota is doing that, though. They don't need Chris Paul getting Carl Towns's year, souring him. That's true. As we mentioned, he did not do a good job with that with Blake Griffin. Here's my take with Wiggins. I feel like Andrew Wiggins, Phoenix Sun. He feels a very Phoenix Sun player to me. Yeah, I mean, Phoenix is going to get desperate at some point this season.

we know what's going to happen. Yeah, maybe you could sell Wiggins and Booker. I don't know. You could sell that. Booker is going to want a friend eventually. I mean, I'm hopeful that Aiton is a little bit more mobile this year. He seems to be doing better on the defense event and preseason for what it's worth. But, God, yeah, they expect to be competitive in the West, and the West is just stacked.

I can't see them finishing. I mean, they sign Rubio. They got in Sarich. Yeah, they're running like Aaron Baines. They're trying to win. So we'll see how that plays out. Let's wrap it right there. We will be back next week.

Chris will probably be back with us. And we'll be able to talk about some regular season NBA basketball. Believe it or not. Yeah, here we go. We made it. So until next time for Charks for Isaac, I'm Justin. We will see you next time. Basketball is very good.

Basketball is very good.