The Ringer NBA Show - Ryen Russillo on the Lakers' and 76ers' Slow Starts | Real Ones

Episode Date: October 24, 2022

Logan and Raja are joined by Ryen Russillo in his ‘Real Ones’ debut to debate Westbrook and the Lakers’ early-season struggles (2:00). Later, they unpack the 76ers’ issues after they also fell to 0-3 on the season (30:10). Things come to a close as they quickly discuss the early success of Kristaps Porzingis, the Jazz, and the Trail Blazers (42:00) Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Ryen Russillo Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Missa Kwanga and I'm Ryan Hunt and we co-host Stadio, a football podcast on the Ring of Podcast Network. Twice a week, Moose and I talk about the goings on in men's and women's football around Europe and sometimes around the world. We like to zoom in, we like to zoom out, we like to make some silly references.

So if you like soccer or football, make sure you search for Stadio, a football podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I think we got it? Yep, that's good. What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bill, there.

For the first time, we got Ryan Rosillo in the building, Real Ones debut. Ryan, what's popping? How you doing, Doc? I'm great, man. Thanks for doing this. Big fan of both of you guys. You know that. So let's do it. Let's do it. So before you came on the Zoom, Ryan, me and Roger had a very, very heated, heated discussion about one Russell Westbrook. Before we get to that, you're in L.A., Ryan, what's the vibe in L.A. around Russ? Is it like full-on anarchy at this point, or are we getting to there?

What's the vibe in L.A. around Russ? They liked him a lot more before he played for him. There's a lot of Russ defenders. There have been for a long time. You know, Oklahoma City, I kind of got it. I was like, you know, he's sort of your dude. Durant left. And then you thought like Russ was like, no, he's staying with us,

even though I think he asked out before Paul George even asked out. So, you know, he shouldn't be on the team, but they're so bad that kind of need somebody to take up the minutes. But like, it's at a point with him. in his career where he's worse being on your team than not being on your team. So I don't know how much further I want to go on this until I hear both of your positions

because I feel like I've already kind of tipped my hand. Like I have a lot to say. I've already said a lot about it. People are like, hey, let it go. I don't know how much more I can say. I'll gladly do it here again with you guys. But, you know, I thought it was Vogel's fault. I was led to believe all summer it was Vogel's fault.

And here we are three games in. And listen, there were, I think Vogel played a role. Russ played a role. and I think just generally speaking, Rob Palinca played a role. Like, it's not a great fit for Russ. I am a Russ defender. I had an argument with these gentlemen pre-pod. I don't understand all of the slander that Russ gets.

I understand it in the context of Lakers land and them winning games and him being part of the problem. I understand all of that. I just don't understand why Russ as an individual has become so damn polarizing. Like all he's out there doing is trying to hoop. and he's struggling to do it right now at a really high level for a team that has championship aspirations. But I think it's a terrible fit.

It was a terrible fit from the beginning. You're asking him to play a role on a team that he's never played and he's not going to be good at doing. And it's just something that you should let go, right? Like let Russ. If there were a way to do it, let's say in this magical world,

like extract him from the equation, he'll go somewhere, he'll do what he's always done. And those who love him can love him, and the Lakers fans don't have to worry about blaming him because there's a lot of fucking blame to go around in Lakerland and I don't fucking understand, excuse me, sorry, Ryan, because now I'm fucking heated again.

I don't understand how Russ, someone who you want to stand in the corner and fucking shoot threes, even though that's not his job, how does all this shit fall on Russ's shoulders? There's a lot of fucking blame to go around in Lakerland. Woo! We're coming in hot, you see, see? Sorry, Ryan, this was, this was, you caught it,

but it was Logan, Kai and Jay and Jay Kerma, they got me gassed up as we sat there, right? And that question I need answer for me. I think, though, my stance on with Russ is he's not playing well. But he's also not doing himself any favors, right? All those times where when he was up against the media in Oklahoma City and Washington and Houston, he would be so defiant in his answers and how he would go about after he was clearly doing a bad job. And you saw that in the aftermath of this game on Sunday against the Blazers, right?

Is Russ contrite about, you know, I'm going to get better. I'm going to do these things. I'm going to play well. I'm going to be. No, he's not. He's absolutely not. And the same people that are covering him are the same people that are putting out this narrative that Raja hates. And, you know, in a lot of ways, it's true.

But he's not doing himself any favors. He's blaming his injuries on, you know, a change in coming off the bench. Cheese and time out, time out, time out, time out, time out. See? Time out. See? I want you, please, just put a pin in your thought because I want to ask you about that. We talked about this.

And I know it was a hot button for a lot of people and everybody's pressing it all over TV and the radio the next morning. But if someone has posed a question as to like what happened, it looked like you may have come out and got tight, how did you get injured? And their genuine answer is, well, I changed my routine. I was doing something that I've never done before. so I didn't prepare, right? And I felt tight. If they give you that answer, which seems plausible and genuine, like, why does it have to be that he's like being an asshole?

I'd ask you, Logan, hold on. You covered a lot of, you covered a lot of Golden State games. Of all those Golden State games, right, when Steph was a healthy participant in the game, not a scratch, he was healthy. How many times would you say of the hundreds of games that you cover, what percentage of time did he not come out at the same time? Uh, like 10. And that's over like five, six, seven years. So I'm always saying that creatures of habit, you learned to warm up a certain way.

I had the exact same warm up. I came out at the same time. I'm talking about seconds on the clock. I shot the same amount of shots. I did the same amount of leg swings. I did the same seconds for stretching. And I did all of that. And I knew I was going to start a game. Right. And so that got me to my optimal to start the game. And so if that gets changed on me, it doesn't have to be like I'm, I'm killing my coach for. changing it. But if you ask me why I was tight when I came up the bench and I just say, hey, my whole routine changed, man, like I've never done that before. I don't understand why that's got to be such a bad thing. So my rebuttal to that, and I do want to get Rissillo's on this as well, my rebuttal to that is back to what I was saying about him not getting the benefit of the doubt because to the people that are supposed to give him the benefit of the

doubt, he's been shitty to over the years. And I believe that he when when the shit hits, the fan and you're not as good as you once were, that's when all this stuff can come in a cascading effect. How do you feel about that, Rosilla? Do you think that that has a part in it? Because for years, he's been defiant. And this is when he was good. And now he's expecting to get the benefit of the doubt now. What do you think about that? I have a lot of thoughts. I have a lot of thoughts. I'm glad you guys went for a bit because I need to explore the space a bit on this one. Russ is an NBA player because he's stubborn. Russ is a bad NBA player now because he's stubborn.

It appears Rajah disagrees on who Russ is as a player now. I would agree, sure, there's plenty of blame to go around with the Lakers, the rest of the roster, the role they're asking him to do. But I look of it almost like an only child in a way where Westbrook was allowed to, because they were so happy in Oklahoma City that he stayed and took the contract after Durant left. I also think that played in the storyline of how the MVP voters went with it that way, where it's like, look at this guy. Like the team wasn't all that good.

There's still a playoff team, but it's like triple double. Like he stayed. He's the anti-Durant. Like, it was all celebrated. And then you started digging in a little bit more and you're like, what's this motherfucker's usage rate? Like, this is like over 40%. Like, oh, this is why he's got the ball more than any other players ever had it in

like the history of the league. And he's controlling who gets the rebounds to what the thermostat is set at. So they let him do everything he ever. wanted them to do. He was in complete control of that franchise. And you start going like, oh, all right. Well, the numbers are awesome. And the effort and the energy that he plays at was awesome. But is he actually good at basketball? Because then they were losing, I thought, to that inferior Utah team with Donovan Mitchell, there's no way Westbrook and Paul George should have lost to that team. So now you're like, wait, does this style of play actually hurt you winning?

And then when you look at, he goes to Houston. They had to get rid of their center to try to salvage the guard lineup. And then that didn't. workout. He goes to Washington and you know, they're a sub-500 team that's not going to scare anybody. And then he's in LA. So we're looking at a guy that at one point, I mean, he's certainly going to be a Hall of Famer because of the numbers. He's an MVP

and then he's on multiple teams every year because when you watch it, when you watch it every night, and I'm telling you, I'm surprised there's more people that aren't on this. But his mistakes are so fucking bad. The gambles defensively. Like there was a Toronto

Wizards game when he was on Washington, where I was watching him, there was like two minutes left. It's a close game. Everything he did was wrong. And it wasn't just a missed shot. And I feel almost like I was tricked into believing that he was a better player than he was. And he can't figure out how to play with anybody else. So Roger, when you're saying it's a wrong system, the only system that exists is if he's

allowed to do whatever he wants and they win 40 games and who gives his shit. And that's what I think of him as a player. Look, I'm not arguing that he's a good player right now. Like I've said, like Russ has not played well in L.A. It's a terrible fit. And I agree with you.

I've also said when it's time to move him that there are not many teams that would take that because he has disturbed him. If the Pacers did that deal, they were going to buy him out. Those type of players don't age well, but he's not the only one that's played like that. And I'm not going to call any names,

but there have been some real high-level MVP, Hall of Fame type of players that could only play one way, give him the ball, let him do their thing. So he ain't the first and he ain't going to be the last to do it like that. He is not a great fit there. And I would say like, while yes, it's super high usage rate and all that stuff, like until you, until you go out there and try to trace triple doubles, I don't give a shit if you are chasing them. You know who else chase triple doubles? Me. You know who else chased

them? Fucking Steve Nash. What was your usage rate? What was your usage rate? What was your usage rate, Roger? No, but, but, but I'm talking about just getting 10 rebounds, just getting 10 assists. Like, that shit is really, really difficult, and I get it. They created, and Russ was created to fit, avoid in Oklahoma City. I'm not saying that you could plug him into any championship team and win. That's not what I'm saying. I'm simply saying, if he is a certain type of player, and it was good in that lane while it was good, and now it's not good anymore, and it certainly doesn't fit in L.A. I don't understand how it all gets rolled up and tied around his neck. I don't get that. I don't understand how every morning it becomes a rough story.

I don't understand how like... Because the shot last night was inexcusable. The shot last night was terrible. It was a defensible. Because when you really watch him, though, and you're like, what are you doing? Why are you leaving the baseline? Why are you doubling out here?

Like, his instincts are so much worse and it all got covered up because he was putting up these huge numbers in Oklahoma City. We were all celebrating it. So like, when you say, hey, there's a lot of Hall of Famers that do this, he can't even be on a bad team, Rajah. He can't be on a bad team that has draft picks from the last couple of years because they're like, what are we going to do, develop our young guys or have this guy coming and fuck it up in ISO for 40 minutes? Well, I think therein lies the problem in general with Russ and the Russ experience is that on a team with LeBron James and Anthony Davis, who is everybody trying to cater their game towards right now?

It's to get Russell Westbrook into the fold. Every single time you hear a story about the Lakers, it's, we got to get Russ involved. LeBron won't even criticize Russ post game because after an egregious shot, 35 seconds left, and they're up one, the Lakers are up one, he shoots a dumb-ass shot and Dame hits a three. That's inexcusable.

Roger, you, I know you would have hated that if that happened. I'm not defending that, and I have never defended Russ in terms of being better than people are saying he is in L.A. I've only said that he, like last year with what he was given, like it's not that far off from what he usually does. Now, if Ryan's going to say like, hey, he's never been anything but a high volume usage guy who gets numbers because that's fine.

Like, I can agree with that. I'm just saying, like, yeah, that was a poor shot. I'm not defending that. And I'm not defending. I'm begging the question because I'm looking through and I'm watching games too. LeBron fucks up on defense. Now, LeBron's great. I'm not saying anything about LeBron.

Anthony Davis is a shell of what people thought he was going to be. Fucking Pat Bev is grossly overestimated what he means to winning. And none of that shit gets talked about. Well, first of all, LeBron, LeBron fucks up on defense all the time. Like, I mean,

there's been going on for years and it's this dirty little secret, like, no, you know, like his assignment. And I don't blame him. Like,

this is the way to prolong the career. You got a lot of shit. You have a lot of stuff you have to do. Right. But to, I think it's that the Westbrook part of it. Like, Davis's excuse is his injury.

LeBron can get 30 in a way like, I don't know that I've ever seen anybody just get his numbers. And it's like, Like, man, it's still so incredible. Like, you can feel like he's coasting and he's still getting his numbers. When the Westbrook stuff is bad and you're actually like focusing in on it. But this is like something else that if you don't mind me kind of like throwing it back to Raja here.

This is this disconnect, though, that's been going on for a while. Like Reggie Miller is on the broadcast bringing up how like Russ had 187 and 7. And now I call them like the 1877 guys because they just be like, man, he still got you 187 and 7. And you're like that last season was a disaster. I always wonder if it's a disconnect of the players and the non-players, because I'd admit, too, Raja, if I, like you, was on a podcast which you guys had never sniffed any game that anybody cared about, like I'd have a hard time ever taking anything I'm saying seriously. So I don't know if that's why there's so many former players that stick up for Russ.

I also wonder if it's a bit of, no, hold on, I have one last thing. I wonder if it's the former players being like, we want to stick up for one of our own because we're so sick of how nasty this has gotten over the last year. Or if there's another part that I want to bring up, is that those of you that actually ran around on the court with this guy, that it was so damn. I've called them the greatest athlete that I've ever seen playing an NBA game, that at its peak, it was so fucking incredible

that you don't want to hear from any of us trying to go back retroactively and discredit what this guy was, which I've also done here, which I'll admit. Yeah, okay. So all of those... A lot of stuff. It is a lot of stuff, but I'm glad you touched on them all, because every single part of that has some truth, right? Like when you're talking about, like,

I'm not one of those guys that sits here and says because you didn't play ball. You can't understand ball, talk about ball, coach ball. I will say that the appreciation for someone and what someone is doing on a nightly basis can't be what someone who was there in the moment with him doing it is because you see what it takes. Like, again, I know what it's like to say, hey man, I got 12 points, seven rebounds, I never had any assist, but I'm just trying to double double. So let me see if I can run down three rebounds over the course of 12 minutes and not be able to do it. So someone doing that shit night in and night out, of course, Ryan, like there's going to be a part of me that's like, man, it's hard for you guys to understand how hard that actually is, right?

Russ is a player that is not who he was. I'm not arguing that. I'm not saying that he's good. I'm saying there has to be why you kind of touched on that Washington team and they didn't scare anybody. they didn't. Like, they weren't good enough to scare anybody. But there's a will there,

at least there was a couple years ago. Like, he was willing them to that shit. Like him and Bradley Bill, and again, high usage rate, like probably ugly to analytics and all of that, but you can't discredit the fact

that there they sat. Like, after that, it was an absolute shit show. Somehow they figured it out. And he, like, I don't know that it would be a great fucking analogy, but it's like three yards

in a cloud of dust. Nobody likes to watch that shit until there it is in the ACE. sitting there looking at you and it's going to get smacked because there's no you know it's got a low ceiling i mean a high ceiling and a low whatever to fuck that thing is but you know what i mean like i'm just no high floor low ceiling right i know like it's not going to do anything but he wills him to that and so everything that you touched on rings true to me just a little bit it's all a part of the package and i don't understand how big picture laker problem it all gets hung on russ's head now

I'm sure there's some of what Logan's talking about. He hasn't done himself any favors with media. And that's fair, right? I'm new to the media. So this would be something that you guys could educate me about. But yeah, man, you shoot a terrible shot coming down the shot clock. Like you're supposed to get reamed. That's a bad.

That's bad, right? You're blowing assignments doing dumb shit going all cavalier looking for steals. And it's costing us. Absolutely, bro. You're supposed to get called out on that. But the Lakers have big problems. When you pick up your $47 million player option and you videotape yourself in your car, basically singing, you can't tell me.

shit. And then it's like, That's a great song, Ryan. It's a great song, Ryan. It's a great song. Okay. A real positive vibe coming from that. And good for him. He picked up his 47. It's right my soul, Beyonce, Ryan. Right. I'm not rooting against him getting his 47 million. But what I'm saying is when you like it has now become a cycle of L.A. in the city and a fan base that is as passionate as any fan base. I didn't understand it until I moved here. Lakers are right there with any other city, any other baseball team, Northeast, football down south, anything you want to put it up against. It's that real. But when you don't play well and then it's like,

ah, fuck y'all. And then it's like, oh, Vogel was the problem, which was always bullshit. I don't blame Darwin Ham from showing up as the new coach going, hey, we're going to figure this out. The figuring it out is getting him on the bench of that closing group. It has to. The Lakers weren't good enough for it to become the issue that it was going to become. And if the Lakers are going to pretend they're still competitive for a while, they're probably going to have to go with that at some points. It won't be any different. I think now it's caught in this vicious cycle where it's just really nasty. And I actually do feel bad for Westbrook on some of the stuff. Like the guys, he's not from downtown LA, but he's from close by enough that it's this dream come true to

play for this team and his families dealing with all sorts of shit at the games. Like, that's why I think this has gotten so bad in the cycle. I'm the dude who's like, look, man, put him on the bench. Like, bring him off the bench. What at rush should be at a point where if they can help in any capacity, if a coach tells you, like, and articulates that to you and makes sense. then you need to be willing to do that. And if he's not, then I'm not apologizing for him anymore about that. I'm just saying,

you know, I saw the clip of a dude hanging over the side, you know, yelling, hey man, your ass at him. Like,

you know, again, man, family, my family was were subject to harassment in the streets of L.A. Like, you're talking about people's welfare

and safety and mental health and shit like that. And just because somebody chooses to give somebody 47 million and he doesn't hold up his end of the bargain. It's not for a lack of trying. Like,

I think he tries. can't tell me he's not out there working. He's just not, he's not what he was. And so that's what bothers, that's what gets at me a little bit as a former pro, right? Like, dude, do you think anybody wants to go out there? It's the whole booing shit. Like, dude, this is my livelihood. I've worked my whole life at the opportunity to try to like change my family's fortunes with this. Do you think I would be actively out here trying to be bad, man? I'm, I would never do that. Yeah. I think Russell Westbrook on the Lakers is, it's not even I think. It's a byproduct of something bigger, which is the Lakers' inability to get out of their own way and over since that bubble title.

They've systematically led by Rob Polinka, led by LeBron and however you want to call it, have systematically broken down that team that had a whole bunch of shooting and made into this team that is a great defensive team, but is not necessarily good at anything else but defense. Ryan, at what point do you think that this is going to be a complete shit show? because we, the next three games, I believe, the Lakers have, they have Denver on the road, then they go to Minnesota and they have Denver back at home. This could get really, really ugly. Yeah, I mean, there's some argument that the shooting, as bad as they may be designed,

there's no way, no, NBA, they're not going to shoot this bad, right? They're not going to be this bad. Of course not. I mean, it's been a brutal first week for them. So, I mean, usually the shittiest teams are still slightly over 30%, you know, so that's one part of it. I've always held onto my Anthony Davis stock because I just refused to believe that it's all over. Is he a great long-term bet?

No. The injury stuff sucks. Every time he falls down, we're all doing the same thing. Like he had a fall this week where I was like, oh, man, when he landed on his side and I was like, oh, come on. So I think between the LeBron Davis combo, like, there's certain nights that they still should be competitive and round out the rest of it. But, man, when you start digging into like, there are three through 10. I mean, I told the story, but I had a front office guy text me like the second night they were playing. I'm watching the game.

He's watching the game. He texts me. He's like, who's their third best player? And I just went, shit, do I, like, is it Kendrick? Lottie Walker? Is it Lani Walker? I mean, it's not Pat Bev, even though he thinks he's probably like the best player in the team. So I mean, that's some guy, like the Lani Walker thing, like, okay, this is kind of cool.

But it also speaks to like something Roger always points out, like, there's plenty of talented guys. If you just end up in some group where you get an opportunity, like, you'll find way to get some buckets. He's basically taking the role of how Malik Monk was last year with the Lakers, right? Just like, he's playing really, really well. He needs the ball a little bit more, you know, than Monk did. But more, you're right.

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Just more of one of those guys who's, I don't know what his contract situation is, but, you know, got a chance on the Lakers, but I don't think he's a starter in this league. I think he's somebody that's really, really good. You get him off your bench, you're a good team, but he shouldn't be playing a minute he's playing right now. No, he's like a third option

guy in a closing game. Yeah. Yeah. That's like, you know, you don't expect that. So, you know, but if you bring it all the way back, like, I would be, I went back and forth on like the LeBron window thing because I think he's going to get a little weird. He's super passive, aggressive with this shit. He also finds ways to like, after he does something, he sort of compliments himself. It's an unbelievable magic trick that it'll do like, well, hey, like the other night he basically knocked the roster for not have enough shooting. Totally fair.

Well, here's the biggest thing, though. He's the one that constructed the team, though. That's what I always get with LeBron, right? With LeBron is that he will always go and criticize the roster that he helped create it. And I think that this is what's happening right now. I think that's the bigger issue to their point. Roger, do you think that how much time does LeBron have before he just self-combust about his whole, his own doing? Look, LeBron is MJ late in his career, right?

Like really late in his career, Washington. Still getting buckets, right? LeBron is not winning, but still getting buckets. Like, LeBron is a bigger, more physical body than that. So if you're talking about longevity, how long can he put up 26 points a game? I don't have the answer to that. I think how long can he put up 26, 27 points a game and have his team viable and in the championship conversation,

that's another question, right? Like, that's a better question for me. And I've always maintained, and I'd be interested to hear what you guys think, if LeBron is going to have, and I don't know how much control he has or how much input, I don't like the word control, how much input he has into roster construction, I don't know how much he has, but I think that he misses the point of what he needs in this iteration of LeBron James. In years past, when he was in Cleveland, he was so good at getting his shoulders by and getting downhill that it could be a bunch of shooters, a bunch of snipers because I'll create.

right if this iteration of lebron is shooting nine to ten threes a game and and has changed into more of a jump shooter than he was in the past he needs more creators in my estimation around him and when you're talking about those some of those pieces over there they're not they're not creators you need bona fide creators with you like you know kairi's always that that that guy that's linked to him and i'm not trying to say you go get kairi but you need players like that where if it's going to be a slower pace lebron's going to paw at his defender for a while and shoot the step back and AD gets and hit an ISO bag, then whoever's with them have to be very capable creators themselves.

You don't need shooters. You need creators. Well, no. No, no. How much? Don't get me wrong. They have to be able to shoot the ball. But, you know, you don't need just purely 3&D dudes because if you're not, okay,

I was a 3&D guy, right? I didn't create at all. Could you just not dribble? Yeah, I just, I did when I was. college, man. I had the ball in my hands, Ryan. Isn't it crazy what happens to perimeter guys in the NBA, though, where it's like, now I'm just not a dribble guy. It's fucking crazy.

My whole routine changed, Ryan. Like when I got my first, second, third year in the league, when I was still trying to figure out who I was, I trained to, quote-unquote, play basketball. I worked on my handles. I worked on my pick and roll. I worked on everything. And then when I got to Phoenix, my entire

summer routine was running to corners and running to wings and shooting. All ball handling gone. Like, this is what I become now. And then it goes, right? And then it's gone, and you don't create anymore. And your confidence in a game, like, in game, you're like, I don't know if I want to have this. I don't do this anymore, so I shouldn't do this. It's crazy.

Point is, though, like, if Steve Nash and Amari and Boris Diao and those guys aren't collapsing that defense, then or Mike DeAntoony isn't running me off of the occasional screen here and there to create for me, I stand out there and I can't help you, right? And so when I talk about LeBron in years past, when he's pummeling a defense downhill, collapsing it, you can kick it out to James Jones and Mike Miller and Shane Badiere and who else. I mean, Delova Dova and let him cash out. But when your guy can stay in front of you, like it doesn't create for anyone else. So I then think you need more creators around you.

Riscilla, how long before Indiana picks up the phone is like, you know what, man, let's just take Russ off your hands? know, is it going to take the two first round picks? When do you think that this is going to take a fever pitch in January? Or is it, are we, are we going to, is this going to like, this is it going to come to a fever pitch in the next few weeks? How long before, because I don't see Russ on the team past the trade deadline. There's no way.

There's no way that they can happen under these circumstances. I would not trade either of those picks. I made that decision before the season started. I've thought about it way too much. I brought up both arguments where you go, how do you mess with LeBron's window here by not bringing in, you know, Turner, who'd be a serviceable guy to probably protect AD longer term

and then heal to provide some of that shooting, even though I think Roger makes a great point on if LeBron's out there just chucking him all the time now too, then what are you going to play five out and take turns going around the world here? But in back to the Pacers thing, I'm not giving you an unprotected 25 and an unprotected 27 for Miles Turner and Buddy He

field. AD is not a good long-term bet. LeBron's going to be out of the league, and it doesn't make any sense. You can say, well, the Lakers will find somebody. They went six years without being in the playoffs. That pick could one of those picks could be disastrous. So I would wait this out. If it, I would tell Russ, hey, look, play with the second unit. You could go back to your OKC days.

You could do whatever you want. Like, this is the best thing for you. I think that's why the agent was trying to talk him into that stuff, which is a really weird story that the agent had to go public saying that basically his client with a list. That's a very weird thing that happened and a rare thing that happened. And it didn't feel like it was some sort of hit piece or let me get the message out there. It felt more of like my guy's really frustrating, which isn't a total shock to all of us. And that's as long-term agents as he got drafted.

Yeah, right. For that, yeah. And that's a guy who has a lot of clients, too. So I don't know. I'm just not, I'm not moving those picks. I'm not going to let this situation. I've already screwed it up. I don't want to pay another tax on this.

and move those picks. One year's a very short amount of time in the grand scheme of sports. And you never know what could be coming your way February. So I'd be more likely to tell him, hey, just bounce. If the second unit thing isn't going to work for him, if none of this is going to work for him, be like, you know what, I think it's a, you know, addition by subtraction deal, stay at home, checks will be showing up. We'll see if we can find some sort of weird maneuver before the deadline for a team that wants to dump some stuff off. The markets can change very quickly. There could be a super mad star in 30 days that we don't even fucking think about right now. You mean in Brooklyn? I think Kyrie wanted to get out to L.A. as much to play with LeBron.

I think that had as much to do with him thinking the Lakers were easily going to give them the four-year extension. Like just, yeah, no problem. Done and done. Yeah. So that's an educated guess. But how does this end, Roger? It's ugly now. It's going to end ugly. When you're up at that press conference and everything that you're asked in your estimation is is is geared towards a Russ comment that they can catch you in and use it against you. That in and of itself is toxic, right? Like if I'm at the podium and I'm fielding questions and every question that's posed to me, I'm like, oh, I know what you guys are trying to do. You're trying to give me to say some shit against Russ. Like that you have to understand that is toxic. The environment is toxic. It's telling

you what you need to know. They're in fear of like answering a question the wrong way and having it, you know, blow up in the locker room. So I'm not there. I don't have anyone in the building that I've asked. It's, it's toxic. And those don't end well unless some miraculous thing happens, you know, like Ryan was talking around the deadline or something like that. I imagine it ends ugly because it's ugly. Let's take a quick break. I want to go back east. And we are back. We'll talk about the 76ers a little bit. Now, is the podcast always this negative? Not always. It's just,

well, I am. Roger's always negative. I'm over here, you know, I'm positive out here in these streets. I've got to counteract Rogers' Raj's shit. But as, as Roger knows and Ryan will find out,

I am really not a proponent of teams sticking their whole chest out. And the offseason talk about how they're going to do all these things and how their championship or busts and, you know, players saying, you know, I've worked out and I've gotten to

the best shape of my life. And then the season rolls around and they just don't follow their wraps. And I think the Sixers are the poster child this year for those types of teams. They're O and three. I don't really know where to put the Sixers at this point. I still think that it's really too early in this season to make a pressing judgment either way. But I'm having some concerns, Ryan. What do you think in your eyes is just not clicking with the Sixers? And is it going to be a long-term thing or do the sixers going to figure it out? There's no way the defense is going to be this bad. I wouldn't think.

But MB, regular season defense isn't always super locked in. Hardin, you know, he gets his one post stop a game and the announcers get all excited about it as if anybody's running anything to the post anymore. That's a pet peeve of mine. He'll have like one nice post up defensive possession. You're like, you know, he's really, really good in the post. We're like, yeah, because guys are posting constantly. Everybody's fucking bunch of Al Jefferson camp guys out there.

So I watched this. Shut out out. Right. Yeah, Ruffel's fitting right in, by the way. He's sitting right into the fives. They're too talented to be bad. They're just not going to be bad.

I do think Hardin looks better physically, like the first time in a long time. But then when I looked at some of the dribble numbers, he had more dribbles than the rest of the team combined after game one. And I was like, uh-oh. They had 29 points to the fourth quarter against Boston, but I still felt it kind of just defaults. and anybody that's, you know, I hate to say anybody that ever play, but Roger's sitting here,

but you default back to what you were comfortable with as a basketball player. And Hardin's been doing this way too long, one way, to probably play anywhere different. Like, he's going to play the way he's going to play. And even though they had a good point total, I thought they got real stagnant in that Boston game. I was like, hell, what is this? Which is just hilarious because it's to your point, Logan,

where all summer you're talking about all this stuff. We had Doc and Harden miced up. and it's like when you do this and when you do that. And then you got a lot of guys who play with Hardin would tell me, be like, oh, no, he's like way more locked in than you think. And he's like brilliant. He sees the game and all the stuff. It's like, does healthier version of him just mean he's going to dribble a shit ton more,

just like we used to see with Houston? Because they have more options. His team is not built like the Houston teams, where it's the only thing you're doing on the interior is the pick and roll read with Capella off those drives, which Hardin was magic with. The Spurs game, I actually thought it was a positive because they couldn't have played with less effort. The Spurs were so much more energized late in that game. The Sixers were almost like, I guess we're just, yeah, we're not going to play that hard. The Spurs on the road, by the way,

and with no, they're not even on the Sixers level. It was very, that was a hard finish to watch. That was very hard. But they were outworking them so bad that my biggest observation was, at least on film, you can go, did you guys not give a shit about boxing out or getting any rebounds here for 12 straight minutes? So that part of it's fixable. Look, I thought they'd have a really nice regular season, but there's still a very dangerous playoff buy-in just because of Hardin. Not so much.

I really like Embeddead a lot. I feel like Maxi's having a harder time figuring out where he fits in with this when Hardin is so ball dominant. Even though, again, Hardin looks better physically. If you're going to do, if you're going to try to run Houston-type shit with Embed, and maybe, you know, this is another thing I'm just rambling here, but maybe this future NBA is tough with a big that kind of takes away your driving lanes even if that big is an MVP and MB.

What do you think about the Sixers problems, Rob? You know, I kind of get into the psychology of basketball players, of athletes, of a Tyrese maxi, let's say, who clearly like everyone watching, you hear it across the broadcasts that the Sixers are on. Like he has to have the ball more, right? Like, you can see it. It's eventual, right? It's coming. He's still getting his shots, you know?

You're right. It feels weird, right? Yeah, it's, it's weird. Well, yeah, because he's, he's going to make them go in a way that James Hardin doesn't make them go. And I mean, in terms of, of ball movement, quicker decisions, like, you're talking about subtracting three dribbles per possession from James Hardin, you know, take that and add those numbers up.

And how many dribble, how many less dribbles are you taking during a game? That's all time where that ball can be moving around touching different sets of hands, right? And I think Maxie gets you into that more. And four touches a game more for me. were huge as a guy who didn't have the ball a lot, right? It got me in a better rhythm. When I was in a better rhythm, I became a better shooter. When I was a better shooter, I felt like I was a better defender. I was a better defender. I had better energy. So, like, just the touches on the ball creates so much that means something to a team. So if you take it out of James's hands a little bit,

three dribbles, four dribbles per possession, over the course of an entire game, that's a lot of, so I think Maxie brings that to the table, right? But back to his mind, like he probably revered James Hardin, man. He grew up watching him. Like, you're, you know, and he's still, viable. You can still see him in practice getting his shit off a little bit. He's still getting 20 odd points a game and he's doing his thing. So it's not that easy to just say, hey, yo, fellow, like move out the way. Let me get a little taste of that. Like, it's time for you to play second fiddle to me. That doesn't just happen like that. And I think Doc has to be, and his staff, they have to figure out a way to kind of start transitioning that a little bit. Like James,

and it's hard, to your point. Westbrook is another example. Like, you're not going to change the stripes. He plays the way he plays. He's incapable of playing any other way. James Harden to some degree, except he's a, you know, in theory, a better spot-up dude. You don't have to take him all the way out of the equation, but the ball has to be out of his hands more than it is currently. And here's the other thing, because I know how Ryan feels about the post. I actually, I'm not advocating for them to be a old school post-up, drop-it-in type of team, but I've said this on this pod many a time, and I'll say it again. When Joel gets that mismatch, when they switch or there's a stretch of three minutes

that someone undersized a la Dremont or somebody like that is trying to guard him, I would bury their ass. I would get him some easy bucket, some foul trouble. I would try to go into that just a little bit more. Not as a game plan for the full game. But when you get the opportunity and there's the advantage, he settles way too much. He settles for mid-range. The problem with that, though, is the reason why he's set up.

Reddling, Ra, and B's out of shape, man. And this is a recurring thing that we continue to see year in and year out. This year offseason, it was the planter fasciitis. And other years, this has been injuries. And he, if the Sixers are going to do what you tell, what you want them to do, Ra, he's going to have to get back in shape. There's a lot of times, yeah, he's getting his 36, but he's, I mean, you've seen this, Ryan, he's logging down the floor.

When in the pick and roll, he's just getting lost, he's doing the old shack thing where he just dips into the paint and just giving up. open shots. I just don't, I don't like what I'm seeing from Embed, even though his stats suggests that he's doing well. One other thing, though, and I want to, I want to get your take on this, Ryan. When I see the Sixers, I see a lot of guys in their positions that have always put, that have a ceiling on what they do, right? Mori has been a winner in this league, but only to a point. Same with Hardin, same with Embeddead, and same with Doc. What little clues or anything that suggests to you that they can turn the corner this season? Because I just don't see it just based

on the infrastructure. The infrastructure doesn't tell me that this is a team that's going to win a title. Just based on the players that I just put out there, do you see any clues to say, oh, they can turn the corner here. They can actually be a player long term. And BD, I'd have faith in Harden. I just think something happens with him in the playoffs. It just has been so bad. The history backs all of it up. I know some of the overall numbers you can point to be terrific, but I also think that this is the biggest separation we've ever seen between regular season basketball and playoff basketball.

I think the three-point shot can carry you through months. It's almost like back before everybody read spread offenses in college football where you'd be like, man, Texas Tech has got 10 wins again. You know, they got two and three-star guys, but they're just, they get their splits out. They've got these guys all over the fucking place. Like, you know, all my five-star linebackers, I got to chase these guys all over the place. And then everybody started running the same shit.

So it's not like, we're going to run the stuff with really good stuff. I think the three-point shot for a little while was kind of this neutralizer at times. And so I wouldn't go like, oh, Mori has a cap because history has told us he can only go this far. You know, there are Chris Paul hamstring maybe away from winning a title in 2018, you know, and even though I wouldn't buy it to harden every year as a great option. So I don't necessarily believe that. You know, Doc's resume. I like Doc.

it's tough to defend the Atlanta blown lead man for that Philly team. That's another one you add on there where you're like, well, how did that fucking happen? Again, I'm more, I like to blame the players way more than I do the coaches because I just think it's kind of stupid sometimes because then you're going to bring in somebody else that's going to be completely different. And if they brought Dan Tony back, then what are they going to do, run everything they did, but then have Embed, like Embeddeed set screens and then Harden deciding whether or not

he wants to floater or handoff. Like, that seems to be a waste of Embed, like, I wouldn't want to do. do that to him. I don't think you could do that to him realistically. So I still feel like with their talent, they're one through seven, they're one through eight. I'm not that. I think they're going to have a really nice regular season. So I'm

I'd be shocked if we're sitting here and they're below 500, 30, 40 games in the season. I really would be. I just think they're too talented. Do you see there, do you see championship, like the same summer championship aspirations, though? Uh, I almost felt like Hardin was due

for a nice playoff run because it's been so bad. that I, you know, it was almost like to be just so dismissive. I don't like being dismissive about, I don't like looking at a player going, he is, when you say someone can't win, you are saying they are incapable of ever winning. Like, think about that. That's like a pretty damning assessment and a summary of a guy that has years to go on his career. But there's a few I would put into that category. And I don't even really like doing it.

I mean, look, it Harden have won a title somewhere along the way. You know, I actually thought the Miami OKC series was a pretty close series, despite it only going five games. You know, we already mentioned 18. But I don't think it's, you know, let's just put it this way. There's better bets. There's better bets for guys to be backing

as your decision maker throughout a playoff series. I look, I think, I think Ryan's right. I think they wind up being fine. It's three games in. I told you there are some teams in three games. Man, it's like, holy shit. Go ahead.

Yeah, yeah. They're going to be right. But I think, yeah, they're going to be, there'll be what, they've been in the last few years. Like, they're going to be a really good story. I don't see them beating those upper echelon Eastern Conference teams. I mean, could they?

Sure. But I ultimately, I think that they wind up kind of where they've been. Like, you're going to see a really good team that winds up being in the finals and they beat you. Let's get some quick hitters and we'll get Ryan up out of here. I want to talk about, you know, let's just go two minutes on each guy, on each subject. So, Wizards are two and one. I'm going to go with Roger first. Are you buying into Wizards start right now?

Stop it. Stop it. No. Stop it. What do you mean? Am I buying it? I mean, am I buying it? I'm buying it in like a great way to start to see him in.

But like am I buying them as a viable threat in the Eastern Conference? That's negative. Ryan, I know you, I know you were, you were buying some KP stock. Are you, are you locking in with the Wizards at this point? I just think he looks good. You know, like, Prasengis has had an incredible swing. I loved him before the draft, felt justified with the Knicks. Then it's like, what the hell's going on?

Then he can't stay healthy. And be like, that's all that New York got for him. And then you're like, oh, he's actually healthy again. It provides some kind of spacing defensive assignment stuff with Dallas. So, like, actually, no, he's totally in Donchich's way. Although I think everybody's in Donchurch's way because he's a very hardened-esque, like, heliocentric. I have to, we can only do it this way type of thing. They get him out of there.

And everybody just hates him. When he's healthy, he's a really good player. I don't know that he's a really good player on a good team, you know, but I think he's a hell of, like, I think he looks healthy. I think he's moving really well. He's looked pretty active, but I'm not sure Beal is a one. I mean, Prisinkis is still, he just turned 27. I actually like some of the potential depth there, but they beat the Pacers. They beat the bulls and the Pacers. Yeah. Bulls are the Pacers lost to Cleveland last night. Yeah, we'll see. That was overtime, though, right? Mitchell went crazy. Mitchell went crazy in overtime. Yeah,

it was on the road. I mean, the Wizards are better than I thought they were going to be this season, to be honest with you. I did not expect this start. Maybe like, maybe a one and two start. Wait a minute. Maybe a one and two start. But that's, that like me, you didn't think the Wizards at some point we're going to go two and one out of three games out of 80s? Not to start the season. Maybe that's how it starts, right? Maybe. Maybe. All right. I'm going to go back to a shout out Walter. I'm going to Utah. Start with Ryder on this one. Do the Jazz know how to tank? And are they going to eventually do it? Because they are 3 in O at this point. And an offseason where they get bit of Mitchell, they get rid of Gobert, and it just seems like Wembe is there for the

tanking if they just not care anymore. Are they going to eventually tank rush him? I mean, I think eventually they'll fall into the landscape where they should fall into it. I don't think it's in their DNA to tank in Utah. I mean, I obviously was there. The two times I was there, it was a different regime. So I can't really speak for this one, but there would have never been a tank. Jerry Sloan and Greg Miller and Gail Miller and we were playing to win. I played on a team with Carlos Oroyo and was Matt Harper and Andre Carolinko. We had Deshaun-Stevenson, Raoul Lopez, Curtis Bortchert. It was the year after Malone or Stockton and Malone left and people wrote us off as a tanking team and we missed the playoffs by one game. We just didn't know how to do it. We played hard. We

scrapped. It meant too much to the fans for us to come into the building in Salt Lake and just lay an egg. So I don't see them doing that, but I don't know, you know, that they're an upper Western conference team. They're three and O. I watched them last night. It's a good game. They got a bunch of scrappers. Like, people have pride in what they do. Unless you go sit them boys down and say, hey, Mike Conley, hey, you guys, Kelly Olenick, you're not playing anymore. Like, I don't, no, I don't see them, I don't see them tanking at any point. What do you think, Ryan? Utah's not going to be good. Okay. Like, this is a crazy, weird start. They're doing a bad job of the tanking thing. But if you look at who they're running out there,

You know, marketing's been on fire. Sex hasn't even really gotten it going. Simone Fontenetio. There you go. I'm sorry. There you go. Who was he again? Simone, what?

Fontaveccio. Yeah, yeah. Italian cat, 26. Starting his NBA career. I don't know, man. Unless Will Hardy's like coach of the year or something. But I just, I have a hard time believing they're going to have a, like, it's a weird start to the story.

That's not a good basketball team. I mean, come on. Yes, they're not going to be. But no, absolutely right. 1,000% right. But if your objective is to be the worst team in the league, I think some of those dudes might play you out of that position. Like, and the pride that Utah has as a fan base,

I think you might play yourself out of that position, but not a good Western conference playoff team for sure. Not at all. Last one. I'm kind of buying into the dame trailblazers propaganda. Ryan, am I, am I, am I, am I out of bounds or are the Blazers is going to be a good team this year? I like their starters.

I mean, I really like their starters. And I thought when you watch the Phoenix game, too, like Paul and Simons, like the way they were just kind of viving with each other, I thought that was really cool, man. Because Simons, I think we've all kind of liked and he gets that huge contract. You're like, man, Portland didn't. They traded CJ for him. Right. Well, I mean, they traded him out to pay him, is what you're saying, right?

Exactly, exactly. Right, right. Yeah. Nurkich has always been this, oh, if he stays healthy stuff, and then the Grant thing helped him in a small forward position they'd had. But I'll say this. I talked to somebody that was in Portland during this whole Dame thing. I go, what's going on?

But, like, dude, the injury was real, like the shooting numbers or whatever, and I know the small guards or whatever. But, like, did people think Dame Lillard all of a sudden was going to suck? And the Portland guys told me they were like, do not turn the page on this guy. Like, I'm not telling you the extensions. And sometimes, you know, again, I like the contract stuff a lot. I'm sure Raja hates it. But then when he gets an extension that felt like it was a little like Ezekiel Ellie getting a Cowboys extension where it was like, why did you need to do this?

Then you're like, what the fuck is Portland doing? But don't let that get in the way of Dane coming back fully healthy and still being a motherfucker in this league. And the Portland guys are telling me like, I don't know what's going to happen with the team. And this is, again, a previous regime. So like this guy's going to come back and be fucking trying to absolutely take back what he thinks is his. And that's the guy that I've seen at the start of the season. So it's been awesome because it's just I don't like go, okay, he hasn't played. He heard.

He's missed a year. Okay, he's north of 30. Okay, fine. Like, he's just going to suck now? That didn't make any sense to me. What do you think, Roy? Yeah. I mean, again, another team, Damien Lillard is fucking great.

I mean, he's a handful of people that, like, you just, you can't guard them. and, you know, with a better starting five, I see them as being fine. You know, they fall into that weird category of, like, I don't think they're winning a championship, but they're going to be all right. They're going to be, you know what I mean?

Josh Hart's a nice player too, you know? Like, Josh Hart's out there battling his ass off. I mean, Dave turned 32 this summer, you know? It's not old. That's not, that's, no, I know. And Jeremy Grants played really well this, this start of the season as well. They've been really good.

I like what I've seen out of the blazer. I'm sorry, Rosh. What were you saying? No, no, no, you're good. I mean, they fall into that weird place of like, yo, they're going to be fine. I, like, they'll be good. I don't think they're bad, but I don't think they're winning a championship, right? If they're all healthy, they could crack 40 plus wins, you know?

I mean, Dame, back to Dame at 32. Like, that guy carried some not great teams. And honestly, I mean, Simons has put up the scoring, but he's not hitting any shots. So we'll see. We'll see, man. Ryan, thanks so much for coming on, man. Come back anytime, dog. It was really good to see you, brother.

Yeah. Good to see you, man. That was another edition of Monday, Real Ones, we will see you Mondays and Thursdays, and you will see Ryan Mondays and Thursdays as well on Ryan Rissillo's show, right? Monday, Wednesday, Friday during football. Monday, Wednesday, Friday during NFL season,

excuse me, catch him on the Ryan Rissillo feed. Come back anytime, bro. Thanks, man.