The Ringer NBA Show - Say One Nice Thing … About the East’s Tanktastic Bottom Five. Plus, UConn Shocks the World (Again)! | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

Justin is back and joined by Rob and J. Kyle Mann and they start by talking about Justin’s alma mater UConn’s shocking comeback win to clinch a spot in the Final Four. Then they get to the NBA where they say goodbye to the bottom 5 teams in the East by saying one nice thing about them. (00:00) Intro (1:08) UConn's victory over Duke (24:21) Men’s Wearhouse ad break (29:11) Indiana Pacers (38:06) Washington Wizards (46:26) Brooklyn Netsl (1:03:20) Chicago Bulls (1:10:25) Milwaukee Bucks Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and J. Kyle Mann Producers: Victoria Valencia and Isaiah Blakely Production Supervision: Ben Cruz and Conor Nevins Additional Production Support: John Richter and Chris Wohlers When you need your fit to deliver, we’ve got you. Shop Men's Wearhouse. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me the committee for the Dweeb Rock Hall of Fame. Rob Mahoney Jay Kyle, man. Guys, we got a lot to talk about here, but I have to start with your podcast last week. I think

the nadir of this podcast, which has been going for many, many years at this point, was one of you dwebes asking the other dweeb, should we do one collective about Rushmore for the aughts indie rock and the other one being like, no, I think We got to have separate ones.

Look, it's okay if you're jealous, Justin. I understand. You wanted to be a part of it. You couldn't. You begged us to come on that pod during your week off just to debate the indie rock mount rushmore, but I'm sorry, you just weren't invited. It was a tough scene.

Right. Yeah. Okay. There's another one I want to talk about later on, but we have to start at the pinnacle of sports achievement. Because we were just already, You were just already firing. I was like shaking my head laughing.

Like his energy even in the intro, you could just hear it. People that listen to this show, you can just hear it. You get on here. And this effing guy with his hat, go ahead, Justin. Go ahead. I have the energy of a champion. As you could see, written across my hat. Because whenever Yukon does something, I wear the hat baby, the 99 title Final Four hat.

We have it on today. Not because Yukon won a title, as Rob is so used to at this point. FML are the first three letters that come to mind for me, but you continue. Yeah. But we witness, man, I have to say probably one of the greatest sports moments of my life. And also probably one of the biggest shots I've ever witnessed. Like Ray Allen, move the ropes back was up there. That's like in its own separate category considering the stakes, especially with those two teams.

But man, the Braylin Mullen shot yesterday to practically ice Duke. fucking Duke, just my least favorite sports program in history, I am beaming right now. Can we break down the percentages there, J.V.? Because like what percentage of your joy and exuberance is Yukon getting to the final four? What percentage is the sheer probability of that shot?

And what percentage is just that it's Duke on the receiving end? I think it's all of it. Like all of them are at 100. I just put the board all the way off on all of the measures. What's crazy about the shot is that not only was the shot absolutely bonkers, like the shot itself, like deep three with 0.3 seconds left after caravan defers. Like that alone would be one of the biggest moments probably in my sporting life. But all of the events that led up to it were equally crazy. So they come back from 19 down. They got absolutely clobbered in the first half.

Kind of what I expected from that game, because Duke had the size that had caused, problems for Yukon. You can had defense. I thought they might be able to stymies some of the boozer stuff. But overall, that first half, they got completely railroaded. Then they come back, right? So Caraband, who hasn't hit all game, hits a deep three in order to pull it within one. You had, at the end there, the Silas Demery missed free throw on the one-in-one.

And I was ready to complain at length about what a strategy following up three is in college because nobody can hit a goddamn free throw. And I was like, how do you combat that? Like, these guys are just going to keep missing. And so if you follow, it's almost like the game is over at that point. Then the Caden Boozer throwing it up for no goddamn reason. Just if he had even like 5% of the good genes from the boozers. But unfortunately, that guy is just the worst of all the qualities you get past.

All right. I can't. The shot itself, which, I mean, you kind of had shot one for 18. earlier in the game from three. Couldn't make a goddamn thing. Mullins has struggled this entire season, struggled this entire tournament to shoot despite the fact that he is indeed a shooter

or should be at the next level. All of that. And then we've seen the clip today of Dan Hurley, a complete and utter psychopath just rubbing his head on the referee for no reason. Just like he's celebrating, going nuts, just makes a beeline,

kind of turns around, and all of a sudden just decides to, put his head into the referee. It's unbelievable. Everything is crazy. The referee part in particular, honestly, the real hero of this game in this moment is the ref for not teeing up Dan Hurley and ruining and submarining.

What I would have to imagine is like, as you say, Justin, an all-time sports moment, certainly an all-time Yukon moment, how easily it could have all fallen apart with one gentle but aggressive forehead headbut? I don't even know how to describe. I literally never seen anyone do that.

before in that situation. He, Tate and I used to talk about this on OSP where we would say, I always would compare Dan Hurley to, what was Austin Butler's character in Dune 2? What was his name? Fade Ralph. I don't even remember.

Is that right? Fade Ralph? I think that's right. He's like licking the knives before the game. That's why I'm here. He's a dork that needs two Mount Rushmore's for Indy Roths. There you go. No, I mean, just the level of just intensity and craziness,

it's like, you just never know what Dan Hurley's to do. I'm pretty sure that was Roger Ayers, the ref that Dan Hurley did it to. And if you don't follow college, like, Ayers is one of the better officials at the college level. And I think there are a lot of guys. Like, if he had done that to a guy, there's a guy Teddy Valentine who's like notoriously, or Doug Schauss is another. There's these guys who were just kind of hot-headed, like they get in the limelight. Love a replay, you know, those types. But Ayers is like, maybe Dan knew in that moment. And he was just like, Ayers is the guy that, but Ayers is very good at like navigating those things. That was not.

nuts, he's got his coat off. He's like, I just, man, I mean, Yukon during that game, I just think that, like, on the basketball side of it, you said a lot of things, Justin, I think we can unpack quickly here. It's just, like, Duke has crazy perimeter size. And they were very well prepared for the layers of the, like, Yukon run some of those beautiful action in college.

Like, it's very nuanced and layered and stuff like that. But Duke was switching a lot of it because they have, like, five, six, seven, six, eight guys who are fast and rangy. and Yukon couldn't make a three. Carabin couldn't get it going. But I was saying that even the Caraband made three was huge. I thought one of the biggest moments of the game was just the freaking ice water that Caraband had when that ball got deflected. There was no panic in him. He was just like, okay, I'm not in position to shoot this. He pitches it to Mullins. You know you want somebody stepping in, whether or not it's from 40 feet or wherever it is, it's a higher percentage shot. Mullins, yeah, just this is the presence of mind to make that play. And then Mullins having not shot the ball well,

in a long time bangs it. I mean, it's like one of the biggest, I don't know if it's up with like the Latiner shot in terms of like the narrative stakes of it,

but I like, I don't refer you to one of those teams. And I jumped up and down like four times in a ride. I did like high knees jumps while I was making dinner just because I love basketball so much. But man, that was a crazy play. Well,

it was crazy especially because Caraban is the guy. Like he's been there for, I think four plus years. I think he read Trittered his first year. They were asking, in the postgame press conference about him to Hurley. And I think he's now won 16 tournament games, which I think puts him third behind Leitner and Bobby Hurley,

Danny's brother. And so, like, he is the guy. You're right to the point where, like, Mullins, when he first gets the tip off of it, goes to Caraband specifically for that reason, but the bigger, better boozer is right in front of them. And you're right to pass that out. I mean, I guess is the right play.

But considering that Mullins just hadn't hit anything up until that point, it's just, it was kind of a hope and a prayer even then. And so, man, so many different things had to go, right? You even talked about Terrace Reed. I have down here, like, this guy is basically prime Al Jefferson out there, just cooking dudes. And the post, it's such a wild occurrence because, like, you just do not see this in NBA basketball anymore, just dumping it into the post. And this guy just working for 15 seconds in order to get a bucket. He was cooking them despite the fact that, like, Yukon did not have the shooting around him in order to provide any space.

You saw Boozer start to crowd him at the end there. he had a nice block where he just fucking just jammed it in his face. It's just like, this is a completely different sport at this point. And I will say, especially considering what we're experiencing, we're going to get into some of the tanking teams later on in the NBA. Like, this was like a jolt to the system that I haven't had in a couple months here because like this was fucking exciting to watch. Honestly, we can tell.

The good side. Come on over. I've just never seen Justin more alive than on this podcast in particular. You really are like beaming. that may require some self-interrogation on your part as to why it takes, you know, a 20-year-old hitting a shot to make you feel something, but I'm glad you are.

Should we talk about said 20-year-olds? I think he's like probably closer to 19, but like I wanted to watch this game in part because I wanted to force you guys to talk about it because I was planning on watching it anyway. But also like it seemed like a good stage to talk about some of the draft prospects here because Mollins, as I mentioned, hasn't hit anything.

I was watching this game, Kyle, and I was about to open this segment being like, I don't really get it with this guy. Like clearly he's athletic, clearly fast, has the Hoover High haircut, like looks straight from the cornfields. I'm just like, you know,

like movement shooter, I guess at the next level. But as I was saying, like, just really hasn't had much success as a go-to shooter throughout his run. I know he was hurt earlier in the season. He's expected to be like a first round guy.

Where are you on him overall? Because I have to be honest, even though I am very much a, Yukon Homer. I'm pretty lukewarm on him overall despite the shot. Yeah, the Yukon system is interesting in what it asks of shooters, because we kind of went through this with McNeely last year, if you remember we were writing about, you know, he was a guy who was very much a stationary, he was just a pure stationary shooter to that point. And Yukon has a lot of flare screen action built into the way that they play. You got a guy like Jordan Hawkins who's in there and he gets drafted higher, arguably.

Maybe it's a thing where we're compressing badly in both directions. I don't know. But he gets in there and can make those shots. Mullins was a guy that I thought would, which fare well, because he's got a quick shot. He's got good size. We were talking about it, like, before we came on air, it's really strange how, or maybe it's not strange at all, I don't know, but like the way you perceive how big players are, like Mullins has good size. He's listed at six six, six, which means he's probably six, four and a half at the

combine if he goes. But his shoulders are so narrow that it just, I feel like that really plays a part in how big a player seems. to me he seems like somebody that's going to have a big decision to make because with the way NIL is, we saw this last year, it is encroaching on almost, that tide is almost up to the lottery in terms of how much it makes guys think. You know, we had Yaxel last year at like 18 or 19, I forget. Not everybody did, but it's these guys who are in the conversation up to that level where the money starts to compete if you're a mid-first rounder. Mullen is a guy who, with this weird year, maybe he'll go test and maybe he'll be a late riser. but I think there's a potential that he ends up being somebody who gets such a good offer

and so much to gain by narrowing his range and maybe like raising it up higher. I think that's in play for him, but, you know, we'll see. Yeah, and Rob, this is a good question for you overall, though, just in terms of the model there, because when I watch what Moulins is doing, like, I think Joe Harris a lot because he's like coming off his screens, like the JJ Reddick model. I'm like, oh, okay, I could kind of see that, but I almost don't know if that player kind of exists overall in the NBA now. Like we almost move past like the go-to, you could shoot and move, but that's all you do.

And Mullins, as we kind of saw in this game and a little in previous games, like when he does put it on the deck, it looks like he maybe eventually can do a little of that, but he did seem immediately shook by the pressure of the defense. And I think the defense also knew once he puts it on the deck, like to crowd him. I don't know. Like, does that player really work, especially in the first round now? There aren't many of them left, especially with that kind of build. that Kyle's talking about.

Even Joe Harris was like a stockier wing who can absorb some body blows, who can, you know, if you bump him coming around a screen, he's going to be able to keep his balance, that kind of thing. You either have to be that sort of physical build or in the like Julian Strother, like wiry has some off the dribble capacity kind of aspect to your game. But if you're purely a movement shooter

and you have that kind of profile physically, I just think you're really, really limited in terms of what you can be as a pro. So you have to show one or the other. And I think, honestly, both also require a little bit of playmaking at this point, too. Kyle, do they measure bowl size at the combine? Because my man's got big bazooka balls. Okay.

Did it take you that long? Rob? It's just unbelievable. You can't measure heart, but you can't measure balls. Okay. Just to just give in physicals out here. Don't even worry about it. Yeah, they have a cough station at the combine, I'm sure.

but yeah, yeah, he wasn't really, go ahead. Well, I was going to say, you know, you think about these movement shooters. I mean, there's another guy that you all should check out named Milan Monkilovich for Iowa State, who I was like, is this just Steve, is this Steve Novak? Like, he's the, he's like the reincarnation of that type player. But you're right. It's harder and harder to find those guys because I think sometimes people will explain, they'll work them, talk themselves into a Duncan Robinson type.

And it'll be, well, that works. But then fail to see exactly. the special, the things that make Duncan Robin special, like the little intrinsic things, which is like you were talking about, his balance is actually pretty good if he takes bumps out there. He's big. He's quicker, I think, than people realize. The shot is really quick. It's a demanding archetype that is increasingly endangered. Mullins, I just think the percentages are just really, I think you'd have to go in there shot by shop. Maybe that's something I can do here in the next couple weeks and kind of parse the types of shots that he missed because that can be mislems.

leading. But he's somebody that I think is going to have a choice to make and that, you know, could it benefit you again, Justin, we'll see next year. Well, on the other side of this, Cam, I think is an interesting one because Duke's run, they've been good question mark. I know the Sienna

game was pretty iffy and then obviously this one was a complete catastrophe. I don't know. I've been probably a little lukewarm on what I've seen from Camboozer in the tournament. I obviously haven't seen a ton. clearly like the know-how efficiency, like I'm just so dialed in aspect of him has really popped in the way that we talked about in the past.

But I don't know. In terms of what I've seen from some of the other guys talking about like Darren Peterson, DeBanza, just feels like Kim probably gets us into a conversation about like player type as well where it's just like he's going to be a four, right? But it does feel like despite being so smart and using his body and, knowing how to take certain steps and not take certain steps, like it just doesn't seem particularly fleet of foot. And so he almost seems like a more older school four doesn't have the same mobility.

When we're seeing now, like, a lot of fours across the NBA are like hyper athletes who are just like extended wings who are just a little bit bigger. Like DeBonce is probably the prime example of that. I don't know. What have you thought about just came overall, Kyle? And just like, has it changed your thinking going to the draft at all this tournament? The spatial differences and the personnel differences from college to the NBA obviously are, you know, that seems like a pretty, like, no-du, kind of a thing to start

with how it's going to be different for him in particular. You know, he has been really smart, and I think this is one of the things that is tricky to parse about him is that he doesn't really accept, you know, like that Sienna game in the first round. Teams, they were daring him to kind of take anything in that, like, 14 to, you know, the mid-mid-range kind of anything. And he just refused to take those shots. So you're coming away seeing a guy who's like strictly spot up or strictly at the rim and he doesn't really do anything in between.

If he does get into the middle of the floor, he's going to, he kind of barkleys, as they say, into the post up from the outside. That part of it is like I think he's going to look a lot different in NBA space, just in my opinion. And I think that he's going to have the potential to add some of this stuff too, because if you look at the shooting touch from the foul line, it's like all that. I trust him to figure out some of those things. I guess the question would be if you look at, like he got bothered in the Virginia Tech or just the Virginia ACC title game by a pretty legit shot blocker.

People are bringing these things up. And I would throw this to Rob is our like, is our native big guy because he likes to play like a big guy, yada, yada, yada, yada. But how much are the little hand grenade over the shoulder, you know, hook shots? Is his kind of around the rim stuff for what he's going to live or die by?

I think he has more to him than that. I think it's just he's such a smart player, in my opinion, that he's going to that because that's what it necessitates. He's not a player that beats himself. I also think he profiles as one of those bigs who does something super important in the modern NBA, which is you can't really switch smaller guards against him because of that quality, because he has so much experience bullying smaller players and getting exactly where he needs to go, that combination plus the playmaking awareness to play out of those situations,

I think gives him an outlet. And also, I mean, you would know better than I would, Kyle, but I don't think him becoming a reasonable stretch option is totally off the table. Like, it feels like he has decent enough touch to at least see that as part of his game. And we live and work around an NBA right now in which a lot of teams are running two bigs

in various capacities. One of them can kind of stretch. Some of them are pure stretch fives or fours. But a lot of teams are trying to get size on the floor. And so long as that size is coming in a package that has good basketball IQ, I think there are a lot of ways you can work through it.

So, Yukon now has Illinois in the Final Four. I've been watching a lot of Wagla, which I say as if I'm at my local Dunkin' Donuts, just like, give me a Wagla. I gotta say... Why are you the way you are?

Why are you like this? I got to say, I'm a fan, though. I've been watching a little bit of Illinois. Yeah. I don't like their prospects against Yukon, but what's crazy about him I've noticed about him is like his handle isn't super tight, but he has all of the escape movements you would want that are like higher levels of that. Like he has the side steps and like the stepbacks

and the decal stuff and like the power through. And it's almost like if he tightens his handle, he would just like completely unlock all of this. But right now he has all the high end stuff, but maybe not like some of the like really like sort of foundational stuff when it comes to drip. I don't know. I kind of love him. We talked about like who might. I go five after the top three guys and then Caleb Wilson. Like he just seems like the type of guy who's going to translate like pretty easily. Yeah, he hit him with the, the like Penny Hardaway reverse pivot stepback thing.

I forget what that move is even called, the one that I think Penny even admitted he just made it up on the spot, but now he's associated with it. But yeah, man, I mean, Wogler is a great, you want to talk about stones, man. I mean, in that game, he just seemed like the calmest one on that team. I don't, in terms of his. Illinois's chances against Yukon,

they beat them earlier in the year kind of handily. It wasn't like an ass kicking, but I mean, it didn't seem like it was super in doubt, but the key difference here is that Wagler has really ascended and asserted himself since then. So I think in terms of the prospect discussion,

this is going to be, Yukon has a lot of like just speedy backcourt depth that I think is going to be interesting to watch against him. This Illinois team is tougher than you think, though. They've got this kind of balking badass thing going on where Murkovich and, And they're a little, they're pretty tough. I wouldn't, I wouldn't discount them because this is a different game that it was back in the, back in the winter.

Hmm. I think they're going to. None of you have anything to say about that matchup. Yeah. Well, I mean, Yukon's defense is legit. That's not me for taking it towards the game. My bad. Oops.

No, if you're not going to do it, who is. We need you, Kyle. I mean, I think Arizona looks like a buzzsaw. I think the Michigan Arizona matchup looks probably like the title game in and of itself. and then whoever wins that one will probably win the title. Yaxil just out there just paying his mortgages and then like just crushing dudes out there, 24-year-olds should be like a Rion, his second contract in the NBA and it's just like stomping a bunch of 19-year-olds. It's actually kind of fun to watch.

I'll be honest. But I'll say this, just overall, just to bring us home here. I think when Yukon won that second title, I was a little... All right, I'm going to go. Yeah, no. You haven't won in a while there in conditions. Kentucky. So I know this is a new experience for you. I'm writing all this down,

I'm calling it away. And I won't forget. When they won the second one, I was like, oh, my God, they might be the most dominant program in college basketball because they were already starting to do things that they hadn't previously under Calhoun, which is not only like consistent success, as opposed to these like one year runs where they have

this like dominant guard play and they just kind of out of nowhere just win the title. That's what they did with Shabazz. That's what they did with Kemba. But then, like, they started to get all the high-end prospects that, like, a Duke would. Like, Steph Castle is probably the best prospect that they've ever gotten that I can remember. And I was like, man, are they just going to become a pro factory in the way that like Duke has? Yeah. Under Hurley.

Yes. I thought they would just be a different type of program. And, like, part of me was like, oh, this is new and exciting. Like, we're in the mix for the flag types in a way that we haven't previously been. But on the other part of me was like, that's not kind of who they are. and they didn't ultimately become that. Like Mullins is like the 12th rank prospect. I was looking up there.

They get one of those guys per year, but it's a lot of transfers, other guys who have been around. Caraband has been around for a while. And you know what? I fucking love it because then Duke comes into town with their 19, like, five-star prospects and they just get fucking smashed in the biggest games.

I love it. The way this is speeding your superiority complex. You stole it literally at the last second. Well, they just don't have that championship DNA. You know what I mean? When it comes down to it, it's nut crunching time, and they're just throwing the ball around. Like, oh, I won't get followed.

I'll just toss it up ahead when I don't have to. Other boozer who sucks, by the way. Oh, right. I just. Is that other boozer even going to come out? I hope this gets back to him. I don't know. I feel like he's probably like a second rounder personally,

but I don't even thought. a ton about him coming out because I just didn't think he would. The Taylor Griffin of the boozers. It's rude. Incredibly rude. Much better than Taylor Griffin. I don't know.

He might end up in a situation where they can still play together. That's possible. It seems like it. If he's not going to be like in one of those serious value spots, I don't. They have a guy coming in next. They have a kid named Daron Rippey coming in next year. That's pretty good. I'm just kind of like, I guess he could run it back.

I don't know. It's a toss up for him. Do you think the boosers will do the thing like the Morris Twins where they got one contract and they just had to split it up themselves, which the sons just took advantage of them? Do you want to do that you and I with our contracts? I was going to say, why aren't the three of us doing this? I'll let you guys hit each other. Rob's got that max, baby. I'll take whatever portion he wants to give me.

I'm happy to split up our personal title pie amongst ourselves. Okay. All right. Why don't we take a break? I'm just going to take an ambient. We'll come back. We'll talk about the NBA. This episode is brought you by Ben's Warehouse. What you wear depends on the occasion.

Like, are we talking awards, court side seats, or just watching the game at home? At Men's Warehouse, they've got you covered with a huge variety of clothing and styles. From clothing like suits, sport coach, dress shirts, tuxes for more formal events to casual clothing like polo, shirts, shorts, and jeans for everyday wear. The Men's Warehouse experts can help you work out your look while they're on-site Taylor's guarantee your clothes fit you perfectly. Men's Warehouse has over 600 locations nationwide. They are here and nearby when you're ready to love the way you look. All right. I talked about how the nerd rock conversation might have been podcast Nadir for good old group chat here. I think number two in the

running. We got a lot of good feedback about that. Yeah. I don't even want to hear it. Yeah. From a bunch of supermodels, I bet. Yeah. But also I thought you were going to go, that was the nadir, but here is the pinnacle of group chat podcasting. Is that not the direction you? you're going. Well, we will eventually. But I first need to mention how, I think it was minute 10 of the show. You guys decide to do a question about like most improved, I guess next year, like who's playing well in March? And I'm just thinking to myself, there are nine fucking people on this call. Nobody stopped to think like this is literally what we're going to do next week when it comes to same one nice thing. Like Rob is getting into like OMAX Prosper and Mattis Bezellos.

I'm like, brother, just this save it for next week. It's been on the schedule for months. What are you doing? We don't have more than one take about the Grizzlies? I definitely do not. That's a personal problem. Don't play must for that. I have to really dig out some of the takes in order to get to some of these Eastern

Conference teams today. But that was a real sight to behold. Thanks, guys. You're welcome. I appreciate all the... Everyone on Earth was tracking that. Yeah. I mean, I certainly was.

Well, here we are again to talk about some of the players that you already mentioned. But Rob is right. This is one of the best pods of the year. This is say one nice thing, which I believe we've been doing a little like, what, like three to four years, Rob at this point. Something like that, yeah. We take some time at the end of the year to talk about the teams that will no longer be with us as we move on in our lives to the playoffs.

I'll be honest, I had to stop and think whether or not we should do this, just because the five teams we're going to talk about today. Maybe like three of them, certainly, but you could certainly make the case for all five. Like, they don't deserve to be talked about. Like, if anything, I almost feel like we should counter-program and not talk about these teams

because some of the tanking down the stretch has just been horrid. It's been horrid, but they are still working NBA teams full of working NBA players who deserve literally a moment of sunlight. We're not investing that much in them, ultimately. Like, give them their moments.

This is the oscillating fan is coming around for a second and then it's coming back. So you're right, though. I mean, this is, I had a hard time with some of these. We had to get a little creative because it was, it was tough. The bottom, the bottom, it's dark at this bottom. Well, we are picking a good time to talk about these teams because these are really healthy on days for the Indiana Pacers, first and foremost, but also the Brooklyn Nets who, beyond all shadow of a doubt, actually won games on the same day before, we recorded this show.

The Pacers almost like, they couldn't help themselves. The past two games, even, they lost the game down the stretch the other night where Jay Huff gets followed in the last seconds and misses both free throws.

At that point, I was like, the fix is in. Like, they definitely told him to miss those free throws. Kevin Pritchard had a poison dart from the upper level and he shot him.

You can see it in the 4K broadcast, but you couldn't see it if you did. Wait, you think Jay Huff took a dive? I mean, don't deserve the benefit of a doubt at that point because they had lost since the deadline 18 of 19 games up until Sunday. The only win that they had was against the Orlando Magic who just as like a side tangent here, holy shit the Orlando Magic somehow worse than any of these teams right now just giving up, what was it, a 31 and nothing run against the Raptors.

Embarrassing. Some of the worst basketball I've ever seen. And we have suffered through like the Bobcats days, like just absolutely being played right now. Unbelievable. But the Pacers won because they shot the lights out against the heat. And so like, congrats? Or I imagine if you're a Pacer's train,

you're not celebrating this, right? I think they've done their work. I think when you lose 18 of 19, the one, you know, again, it's okay to win an occasional game. You just can't be kingsing it up winning on a shockingly regular basis. So are we starting with the Pacers saying our nice things? Is that what? I think you got to start from the bottom.

Yeah, if only to like give them credit for actually going out and winning a game for once, for the first time in like two months. Well, mine is going to sound insane. Can I start? I would love insane. Because just what you would have to watch them to even begin to think that this would be the case. To read through is that like I still feel like there's this weird shrouded yet bright. titled competitiveness with them that they are like they still do have this competitiveness that

they're so actively trying to sabotage because like like it's it feels different than some of these other teams like the nets can't help themselves the wizards i don't think they're they have that gear if you look i mean yeah they're having to go out of that they started quentin jackson jaylin uh colts lawson and uh ethen thompson the other night i mean it's just jeline slawson by the way totally played quarterback against permian in like Friday night lights, right? Oh, for sure. He definitely was like a low-level prospect

that ended up at like Texas Tech. Oh, I drafted him in NCAA, or I recruited him in NCAA football and took like, you know, Eastern Carolina to a dynasty with Jalen Slosson, no doubt. That's right. But no, to Kyle's point, though,

like all of the main players have to play because the NBA is clearly like putting the screws to a lot of these teams. And so, like, a lot of the rosters, most of the time, look like the team that you're used to seeing. like a mediocre team, but the team that we're used to, nonetheless, definitely took a turn in this heat game.

But overall, you could definitely tell, like, the teams are getting very creative about how they're sucking because they have to, under the guys that, like, all the good guys are playing, it's fine, it's fine, it is not fine. Yeah. Like, the Pacers are still in there is what I'm saying. Like, I look in there and I'm like, there's still something, there's some quiet confidence at the back

where I'm like, they are sabotaging, but the moment that this stops and they get, you know, granted we've talked about there has been some turnover. We're assuming a lot. We're assuming a lot that Hallie is going to come in and be himself. We're assuming that Zubotch is going to do some kind of, you know, at least productivity while. He's not going to replicate what Miles is because they're two different guys.

But I just, I look at them and I'm like, as bad as it is, I still see the Pacers in there, but you have to really watch to see that. Like, yeah. They're still recognizable for sure. And it was just a matter of, like, putting the right guys in the right positions, playing them their fall allotment of minutes, as you're saying, like, making good on some of the competitive equity that's already there. They're going to be a really good team.

Honestly, I think even if Halliburton comes back a full step slow or, like, it really has to ease into the season or needs more time, whatever that looks like, I just think if you let these guys off the leash and say, actually try to win games next season with Avita Zootbots full time, I just think they're going to win a decent number of games, basically, regardless. And some of that is because they've had opportunities during the sort of lost season to poke around the edges. You're seeing growth from Andrew Nemhart as a playmaker. I think one of the little things that I wanted to highlight is, like, Pascal at the five was the thing they were doing out of necessity because they basically had no functional centers for good chunks of this season.

I think they should really continue to do it. Like some of those lineups shockingly sort of worked. And you don't trade for Avita Zubats to not play him or not rely on him. but the idea that the secondary change of pace look that the pacer's could throw at people is this like incredibly uptempo, incredibly dynamic, Pascal at the 5, surrounded by athletes who can really run with him.

I think there's really something there in a way that they weren't relying on him before but could next season. Unfortunately, they had to stumble upon it because Jay Huff just never really came around in the way that we probably would have helped. Maybe he got bonuses in like REI credits from missing those free throws.

but like everything beyond just blocking the shit out of everything at the rim has been pretty suspect. Like not a rebounder. The three point shooting hasn't been there this season the way that I would have hoped. Like if he was just a rim protector and a three point shooter, it would have been like, oh, that's useful. Especially perhaps in like a lineup with Siacom as they go to five. Like you could just stretch out off, put him in the corner and then just rely on his shop blocking. Then you have a pretty credible defense on the other end there. That would be interesting.

And maybe if he's a backup now and playing primarily against basketball. backups like he did with the Grizzlies. Like maybe there's something more to that. But you're right. He didn't come around. And if anything, like Seacom looks like their second best center at this point. But it is one of, I think it's a useful exercise going into all future seasons with any of these guys who it's like,

oh, I really like this bench player for this other team. Could they stretch out into a starting role? Just because you have the requisite skills doesn't mean you can do them over 36 minutes in games that actually matter. And that's to the extent that these Pacers games have actually mattered at all. Like, these are low stakes. affairs and Jay Huff couldn't even just like fill the minutes that they were hoping he'd be able to fill.

So the Seyakum part of it, I do think is real. I do think a huge, like a huge asset of the way he plays the game is like he does this stuff that's like pretty thankless, cross matching against fives, playing center when asked like there aren't a lot of fours in the league who want to do that. And Pascal Seaccom does it and does it well and doesn't complain even when like the Pacers are going to lose these games. I just have a lot of admiration for that stuff. and how he conducts himself,

but also how it transposes when the games actually do matter. Yeah, and there's an interesting thing that goes on, I think, whenever players are out, which we know we've seen that with the Nuggets, where they found out things that you discover wrinkles because of your crises, you know, the crisis becomes, you know, necessity, mother of invention type thing, where the Pacers, though, are at the opposite end of that,

where, or the bad team, some of these bad teams, and I think we're going to talk, this is a recurring thing for me and some of my compliments for some of these bad teams is that in this void that needs to be filled by something, whether it's like, okay, we're trying to find someone who could give us 10 minutes a game on a competitive team. It's like, okay, Jay Huff, you answer that question for us. And I think the scale kind of goes up as we watch some of these younger players. But I guess that's one sort of like silver lining byproduct of this is you do get some info ping back to you, which is useful for the Pacers there. It's regarding

Jay Huff. What did you guys find out about yourselves when I wasn't around? that this podcast can somehow get even nerdier. Honestly, it was fine. It was a seamless process. Like, we just leaned into the truest versions of ourselves, and we found that you were holding us back this whole time. So, you know, it was tough revelations. No impedance whatsoever.

Love it. My favorite part was when Isaiah asked the question about the, in the Iraq, you could just, like, sense the boredom as he was coming out. Well, I called that out. Isaiah did disclose to us before the pod and just, really showing and exposing our age that he didn't even know, like, what Otts was referring to because he's so much younger than us. And it's like, oh, no, we are, we're cooked. That's one of Isaiah's best qualities, though, is that his heart rate never gets it. He's just

a cool, he's a cool guy. He's always, nothing famous. He's always, he's a real wogler out here. Well, Kyle mentioned, like, fringe guys there. I do just as my one thing. Kobe Brown seems like a rotation guy. And that is more important for a team like the Pacers that is so capturing. And one of the operating theories of getting Zubach is that they could fit him into their books because they already have the two maxes with Siacom and Hallibur. And obviously Zubach in like the 20s range fits in there in a way that isn't going to force them to go into luxury tax and pay through the teeth. Kobe Brown just like seems like this type of guy who could easily just like play 15 minutes,

20 minutes a game in the regular season, like a big old beefy boy who we liked with the clippers who have a history at this point of finding some guys late in the first round. Unfortunately, they go on to other teams like Musa Dia. Botte and, like, really find themselves. But, like, big guy, strong guy, like, clearly can defend a couple of positions, shoot a little bit, really, like, kind of crafty getting inside, like surprisingly so. But, like, finding him seems like the type of win late in the season, especially as you're really fucking digging deep to find them with the Pacers. Like, that matters in the long run for a team that's so top head. Yeah, I think their, their wing kind

of forward rotation could look just like a little different overall next season, particularly depending on what happens with this draft pick. If they end up in the top four as it, expected and they land a DeBanza, then yeah, obviously he's going to be a huge part of their plans. But I think Kobe's been good enough to get a real look. I think Jaris Walker has been good enough to get a more consistent look. Ben Shepard, thankfully, has started to hit some shots and kind of redeemed some of his season. So ultimately, like, they're going to have some options and how they choose to like go into free agency knowing all that, that you have some kind of flyers to take within your roster already. I'm eager to see what they do with that opportunity.

All right. Should we talk about the Wizards? who kept the losing going yesterday. They stayed strong. Everyone else was flying high. They did it like, no, no, no. We're just going to fucking suck still. So since losing a back to back to Indy, which ultimately might decide who ends up with,

at least the number one slot in the lottery. We'll see what happens in terms of odds. But since losing a back-to-back to indie have lost 18 of 19. Rob, you want to go first with the Wizard? I would love to. We all know next year's wizards are going to be a dramatically different team in dramatically different circumstances.

Trey Young presumably will play all the time. Anthony Davis will play as much as his body allows. And so they're going to be competing for something. And I think that version of the team, the play-in Wizards, I think there's a real role for Will Riley on that team. And you're starting to see it kind of pop here. Look, there's room on this train for all of us, guys.

Yeah. But to me, it's the single. most interesting thing about Washington's late season has been his emergence, particularly when you think about what that version of the Wizards is going to need. And it's when Tray is on the floor, who are the wings who are going to be able to spot up and hit shots? Riley's been really good at that, especially later in this season. And then when Tray's not on the floor, who are the guys who could have an interesting synergy with AD? And I think Riley is shown a nice playmaking facility for them that could really pay off kind of working the edges for some second unit. So

having another big wing around who can handle and make some plays and hit some shots clearly valuable, I would not be shocked whatsoever if by the time next year's play in tournament comes around and the Wizards are trying to scrap their way in, that Riley has maybe like hurtled Blaw Culele Bally in the rotation or in the pecking order in terms of importance, he just feels like a guy who's so clearly on the come up, it has a lot of what they need. Absolutely. I mean, he was a guy coming in, you know, 21st pick. He was a reclass, so he was a little younger. But we were watching him, and you saw the shooting percentages,

the percentages inside the arc. I'm just remembering back about the conversation for him in Illinois, and you wondered, like, is this a guy who's just never going to really be an efficient score at any level? We know we can kind of handle the ball a little bit, but what does that net out to? You mentioned the shooting and the things like that. Like, yeah, I had it written down here in the past eight games, 16 and a half points, 3.3 assists, and almost 5-3s a game at 38. and a half percent. So he's just, he's had the opportunity, you know, in the, in the void,

like we were saying, it's been filled with a lot of pick and roll reps for him. He looks really smooth. He's big. I mean, he's six, seven, six eight. The fact that it's even a discussion that he leapfrog Kula Bali, wow. I just didn't see, you know, I just, I expected Kulbali to develop a little more. Granted, you know, things will come around, but this was a pretty big steal for them in a way that they've hit on their picks, man. I know we're going to be talking about the Nets, but that is a, that is a huge silver lining for them and just the fact that he can handle the ball so well, I think is really popping for me. And he's so slinky off the dribble too.

Like if you saw that game against the Warriors the other night, he took Draymond one-on-one and just like worked him. And it's unusual to see a young guard like him pull off that kind of maneuver. Yeah, they haven't listed at 6-9, but like he's a beefy 6-9. And it's crazy watching him out there because it almost feels like he, like Tom Hanks' big style just like doesn't have full control over his entire body. Like he'll do things and it's almost like he's surprised about where he's going. But there's an effortlessness to some of the skill stuff that clearly can't be taught.

Like the shooting touch seems pretty nice and like the passing read seem pretty natural to him. And so you're right. I like I was watching like one, they have a lot of big wings out there that they can throw out there because Kishan's also big, well, he's big and Kulubali's big. But like he already has shown the type of offensive inclination that Kulabali is just never shown. And like he's obviously going into a big year this summer with, um, that draft class already being extension eligible. I'm like, what is Kulabali at this point? He's practically just like a defensive guy. And like, if you keep him in the rotation that has some advantages,

especially on a trade team that's going to be looking to fill out the wings there. But like, I think he already has passed him in the pecking order, if only because like there's just so much more to explore. I think it'll probably depend on how much they feel that urgency on defense next season. And if they want to have not just, you know, Kishan out there to guard people, but also Balal to chase people around and cross-match and hide Trey as much as possible, like I could see them kind of falling into that or talking themselves into it, at least to start the year. But Balaw is shooting better right now. Like I want to give him due credit for that. We haven't really seen it over any sustained stretch. And so long as that's the case, he's always going to be

kind of a funky fit. And if you're trying to have Balal Kulabali and Alex Saar and Anthony Davis on the floor together, I just don't really see that. a viable combination of players. And so this is where Will Riley, all of a sudden, there's a real opportunity for him. And this has kind of been there all year. Like when he has gotten shreds of minutes, like you could see

some of the pop in terms of creation. They just haven't had consistent opportunity for him. And so I think this is more than just like March Mirage kind of stuff. Like there is something real here that has been going on that now he has the opportunity to show. And next season, I think he's really going to get a chance to prove it. Yeah, the feel

and the feel is the thing that really pops and separates for him versus like you were saying like a Kulibali or other, I'm blinking on the, or like a Wipmore, these other guys that they've given an audition to. And I think that once they get all of their guys in place, I think he's probably, he's a pretty good cutter too and pretty athletic finisher, which I think is going to really help once they get everybody back into place. It's a good, good fine for them. It's a good value. Good pick. Also say this about the Tray Young and 80 trades looking back on it. Like I still like, those deals more as rehab waystations in order to flip them later on. Like maybe once some of these other younger guys pop, you can kind of like almost level them up and push those guys out for future assets. That would be probably what I would hope for those transactions. But overall, they're at the point where like they really can't jam any more young guys into this team. Like they have gone this season, I would say, from a team team team teaming with just like draft picks. We'll see what's that. We'll just throw everybody out

there and see what sticks to like now they've almost like settled a lot of the spots with guys who maybe aren't fully formed, but like have really like solidified themselves as the guys who will eventually be there. I just don't know how many more draft picks after the one they're going to get this season in this upcoming draft. Like they have in order to spend on that. And so for looking back on the trade trade and all that other stuff, like it makes more sense because like they can't keep taking like there's nowhere to put these people. There's no G league. There's no like feeder system. Like this is it. Like your team is who it is. Especially if they don't extend Tray Young, you know, and he becomes a part of the team for a short term while you bring

along the point guard of the future behind him. I think there's a lot of ways that this could make sense for them as that kind of transitional stop, JV. I think they might be better than probably we expect next year, if only because like, we'll see which rookie they get, but their team really is kind of carved in a certain path where it makes a certain amount of sense, more sense than I expected for a team that's just like losing every game down the stretch here. Like, it is, it makes sense Sarah next to AD, Trey running pick and roll, wings spread,

like, that's got to be a play-in team next year. Yeah. You can get, like, really wild with some of the expectations of AD pops

in the way that, like, he hasn't in a couple years, but, like, I feel pretty solid about them being, like, their floor as a play-in team.

Yeah, I don't see the best version of the wizards. And granted, they need to prove it. We got to see these guys on the floor together, but I just don't think

it's that far away from what we've seen from the Raptors for a lot of, this season. We were just talking about the magic and how disappointing they've been. Like, yeah, there are the healthy Sixers or the Surgeon, the Hornets. Like, that might be in a different class. What the Hawks have been doing over the last like 20 games. That's a different thing. But Washington is right there in the mix with all these other

teams, the heat included, where I just don't see any daylight between what the wizard should be and what those teams are right now. All right, let's take one more break. We come back to the remaining three teams. All right, the Brooklyn Nets, big winners. on Sunday. So I have it down here. Two losses since February 11th before that. They had gone 20 of 22. It's just like unbelievable. Like I'm saying these things and I think we're pretty numb to it because the tanking down the stretch over the past five to 10 years had just been so brazen and terrible. But like this is historically like just shit. Like I can't remember the last time that teams were just throwing away months and being successful at it. I think that is the distinction that they have

become so good at being bad that it's like it's hard to miss. Like they're experts at being shitty. I mean, they're getting their 10,000 hours. You know, we're really training people to lose in this very particular way. And it's wild to see them lean into it and you just think like the audacity to just continue to be committed to the bit. It's like, well, what's the alternative? It's like if you if you grow a conscience about like what you're being a part of here, the stakes are, you know, one of these,

potentially one of these guys, the DeBanses or the petersons of the boosers. And I don't, you know, in that sense, it's sick. It's crazy, but it's like,

I don't believe them for staying leaned in and committed to it. I almost wonder if as a byproduct to the NBA getting so tough with this talk about like finally leveling penalties because Lord knows it's taking two decades just to get to the point where they're actually considering. actual ideas that flatten odds and whatnot. I almost wonder if a lot of these teams were like, last day, we're just going to start doing as much as possible

because this might be the last time we have to do this. And so maybe that was a reason why teams like the Jazz, like the Pacers got ahead of it early at the deadline. I don't know how early those teams were tipped off to the NBA thinking about this. It reminds me a little bit about the Suns getting Steve Nash back before the Freedom of Movement rules start to click in, all of a sudden, oh, the sons are one of the best teams in the league because they have the

exact player who could thrive in that environment. I'm just wonder if some of these tankers are like, fuck it. Last time, there's only so much they could do for us, let's just like, let it rip and next year we'll go from there. I think it's a very real thing. I think the causality of that, the timing you're right, it's hard to parse kind of when the decisions were made relative to the grand, like the shifting tide as far as a public opinion around this stuff.

But every team wants to be the last team through the. door. Like, that's the ultimate payoff for this kind of system is like, you want to be the one to take advantage of the rules to the maximum possible extent and then fuck everybody else as they have to deal with the flattened dots. That's, I mean, that's competition. You know, I really have no problem with that, but everyone is racing through that door at the moment. And I will say as a byproduct, like teams that stocked up on future picks for trading their superstars, like the Portland Trailblazers, for instance, are really in a bind now because all of a sudden these juicy ass assets that they've acquired like all of a sudden.

It's so tough for the Blazers, you know. It's tough out here, man. We're pouring out. It's really tough. A little Pino off the glass. A little IPA. It's been gorgeous here this week though. Wow.

What a lovely spring. It really just makes your heart. In your mind? I was going to say it. Yeah. No, but I do think like the Blazers or any other team that the rockets, for instance, seeing that I have to use other examples of future picks like, it sucks.

because those assets all of a sudden don't look as as attractive. On the flip side of that, team like the Brooklyn Nets, who we're just going to talk about, don't have their picks next year. And it's like, oh, fuck it. It doesn't matter because that pick doesn't matter anyway. Having said that, though, with the Nets,

still kind of like, what are we got here? I feel like I like a new rookie every month. And for this month, it's Ben Saroff. Who, unfortunately for you guys, I have to make the obvious Deni Obdia comp, because I do think despite the fact that they are countrymen, there is a little obdia in this guy where he gets north-south downhill like a running back

in a way that reminds me a lot of Denny. And then all of the skill stuff seems to pop from that. He's a little smaller, a little bit more dynamic as an athlete too, and is doing some of the ball handling stuff first, whereas Denny became more of a role player and now his backdoored some of the more skill stuff. Like from a jump, the way he's able to get downhill, and then create or, like, he's getting to the line pretty well.

I've been pretty impressed. It's like a month, and, like, you know, Yeager's not in there. Dreori is falling off, and all of a sudden, Sir Rof is playing well. But he has had a moment, and those moments are to matter. I do like what we've seen from him. I'm a little concerned, not to poo-poo our nice things as we deliver them, but he has such an unusual cadence to the way he moves. Like, it's very counterintuitive.

And you can even see within these games as defenders get a little more accustomed to guarding him, the things that they're able to take away. Like once he gets on the scouting report, that's the bensaroff I want to see. Like what is his counter to the counter as defenses kind of solve him? Because he's fun to watch exactly because of that unpredictable quality.

But it's not that unpredictable. It's just that nobody has seen him play this year because he's barely had an opportunity. Yeah, you're right, Justin, about the handling and stuff. It's like he has that kind of physicality that reminds you a little bit of Avdia, but yeah, a little bit smaller.

The shot has always been the thing that I just don't trust. at all. And if teams are going to figure him out, like in terms of the downhill stuff, that that's a problem. I just think their draft increasingly looks, you know, I've gone through the cycle of like I liked it. Maybe we'll circle all the way back, but it is wild to look at who they could have taken at every spot at all five of those beautiful picks that they decided to pick. So I wrote down here, for instance, instead of Denny Wolf. Well, yeah, at eight, they could have taken Murray Boyles,

coward. They could have taken Derek Queen. They could have Carter Bryant at 19. And this is just going by the guys around them.

They could have had Yakuchonis, Will Riley, Neat Clifford. And then in those picks at 26 and 27, they could have had Ugo. They could have had

Kalkburner. They could have had Yonik Boom. They could have had Rashir Fleming's who's coming on out in Phoenix. It's just interesting how if they had taken

a different skill set approach, mindset, lens, whatever you want to call it. How will we be looking at this differently? because this is so, you know, they cut Cam Thomas loose. There's really just not much of a direction in terms of the talent that they have. And it could have gone so differently.

You know, it's tough. Well, who do we feel best about among those rookies? Who are we highest on? I mean, Ben Zrop's your answer like right this second, Justin. Do you feel best about him overall relative to these other prospects? It changes every month. And I think that's the problem that they all have played to a certain level where they'll have like two games where it's like, oh, really see it in that game, but then they'll have 10,

where it's like, I don't fucking know on this guy. And also like with Traori and Suraf and with Yeager, they're obviously playing similar styles. I don't know if Serraff is really like a go-to primary ball handle. It seems like he's more of a two wing type, especially if he can get the shooting to go. So like, they could play together, but a lot of times like they're stepping on each other, but now like Yeager's hurt. And so long story short, I almost want to put all three of those guys at like 2A, B, and C, whereas I think Danny Wolf has been the best of them, but ultimately I don't like him long term as, is like for their future. And so I don't know, which is the problem.

I think at a certain point this season, you would expect to at least have like an idea of where the runway is, right? Do you feel like you know that with any of these guys, Rob? No, I don't, I think you're spot on. for a team that has just an ocean of opportunity to throw all of these guys in in various stages. And for us to come out of the season with, at least externally, I would say no greater clarity

as far as who is actually good and not feels like a real missed opportunity and a real problem. Some of that is just the guys they drafted, right? Some of these, I mean, Soroff's a great example. That's just a type of player who's going to need more time, period, even in the best of circumstances. Of them, like, I would say at least we have, good, solid evidence that

Yeager Jomon's jumper is real. And that that's a thing that could potentially carry him for this initial stage of his career as he figures out what his role was going to be. I certainly didn't think it was going to be this. I didn't think he was going to be this much of basically a specialist for the Nets, but they've had a weird season.

And that's kind of baked into any tanking team. There's going to be quirks of the rotation. There's going to be guys who get opportunities you don't expect. I just, they're a harder team than most to find the silver lining, among that rookie class because I think they've all just been so up and down. If they end up getting a superstar like a, like my dog is doing incredible stuff.

I'm sorry. I'm, if I'm, my eyes keep darting over. Sorry, trying to keep an eye on what he's, I don't know what he's doing. Well, you got to narrate for us. What's going on? Well, we've had a lot of just kind of medical issues. He's kind of getting up and twitching and we're,

I think we're good though. Okay, I'm going to talk to me a for a minute. All right, but all right. Yeah, if you, if you look at, um, Yeager just really needs to develop some kind of inside the arc presence because like the shooting you said has been it's been inverted I thought the passing and stuff was the thing would pop and then teams would dare him to shoot he's just been he's not been good inside the arc he's going to have to figure that out I trust that he will I still wolf and and and uh doomen are still my two my two favorites among these they were they that hasn't really changed Powell I don't really know what to make of him Saroff I just kind of second sider if he ends up not being able to shoot that just is kind of like a a younger version of Vassilié Michich, to me personally, we'll see how it goes. But those two guys, I trust that Wolf has been a little more competent defensively and

hung on better than I thought he would. The shooting is the thing that he's going to have to prove that he can hit shots. So those two are my favorite. I don't know if you guys are any different. The advantage, I guess, of the model that they took with the draft, if there is like a consistent theory there, is that these guys are on the younger side of draft picks. And so they're all like on the age 19 season. I think Yeager just turned 20.

Straff is about to turn 20. Treore, super young. And so maybe they thought because they don't have the draft pick next year, we'll just take longer term projects and like slowly start to build them. Obviously teams love to get their hands on these guys earlier as opposed to later. And so like as compared to like a queen, for instance.

Like it didn't surprise me that those guys are a little bit farther behind. Having said that, like even queen when he has kind of faded down the stretch. sure we've seen the moments of him being a potential like All-Star down the road. I don't think we've seen that with the Nets. And so I don't know what their team is, man. Because this draft pick really, it's it. Unless they could do some work finally in free agency, we'll see if they have enough compiled with like future draft picks, maybe plus some of these guys aren't intriguing enough to a team like the Bucks. Obviously, Janice has already always been kind of like rumored to be in the mix

they were wanting to go to a big market. That seems like more of a necessity now, depending on how this draft shakes out, then I would like if I was a Nets fan. Yeah, I think that's entirely fair. Can I give a nice thing that has nothing to do with these young players? Yes. I think, and we haven't seen,

like it's been kind of touch and go because of these guys in particular, MPJ, not always being in the lineup of late. But I think Nick Clackston and Michael Porter, Jr. have real chemistry. And if that's something that's want to lean into, they could and be better sooner than later. They just have to have a roster around them.

that makes sense. But they were the most productive assist combination for the Nets all season. And I say that, Claxton to Michael Porter, Jr. Because it's tapping into two things that they both do really well. Claxton has been like a good dribble handoff guy for a while that's been building year over year

even with these wayward net seasons. And of course, Michael Porter Jr., which is mainlining handoffs with Nicola Yokic. And I think it's a better offball mover than he gets credit for. And the combination with those guys of, yes, the normal like Claxton at the elbow at the three-point line, handing it off to one of the best shooters in the game, that makes

sense. But I think Porter's been really good going backdoor and really good kind of when teams start overplaying that possibility, Claxton's diming him up over the top for layups, where Claxton has more layups or more assists to Porter at the rim than he does for threes. And that to me is like a really productive combination that doesn't just represent these two guys can work together, but they really work together within the context of what Jordy Fernandez wants to do. Do the Nets want to be good and lean

into that? Will Michael Porter Jr. be on the roster next season? I have no earthly idea, but those are two guys who have actually liked watching play together. They need to get Darren Peterson. This team needs to get Darren Peterson. It makes the most sense in a basketball from a basketball standpoint. And

I'm trying to keep him at bay. That is great. He normally stays asleep. He's just... He heard Darren He was summoned. He must get takes off. He's,

just for the audience, everybody has dogs. He started to have a seizure, so I've been keeping an eye on him during group chat. Normally he sleeps the entire time. I might have to let him out to go to the bathroom.

I'm not sure what's going on. Anyway, this team needs to get Darren Peterson, in my opinion, because I think he plugs into exactly what they need. You've got all these guys. They should have,

they should have bundled one or two of these guys together to get, yeah, he did bundle, and they could have probably even still gotten a of the guys that they wanted.

But whether it was Geoman or Wolf, because a lot of people think that they drafted Geoman too high. But Peterson would just make a lot of sense for them. I think you would fit with what you're talking about, Claxton and MPJ. And then this thing could start to make sense in a hurry, honestly. Yeah. Well, it's funny you mentioned that about Peterson, because I have been wondering as we go through the rest of the season,

it looks like the trio of death here, the Pacers, wizards, and the Nets might end up with the best odds. we'll see the Kings kind of lurking there, but it almost feels like the Kings will fuck around and win some late season games just because they really got to show the league what they're all about. You said Peterson for the Nets,

for the first two teams, the Wizards and the Pacers, is it like Peterson with a bullet or will it depend on like, if the Wizards get the one, for instance, are they thinking more DeBonsei because of their personnel? Like, what do you think for those two teams? Man, I think with like the personnel

that the Wizards have right now, I think in terms of making them a competent team quickly, I've probably said this on this team a few times. I think Boozer is the answer. because I think you could play Boozer next to Saar, obviously 80 there, not long term. I think Boozer would really support some of the guys that they already have with the Carrington's and the Trey Johnson's. I think that he would produce open shots for those guys. And you could, you think of Boosier is like a high volume score or star like we were talking about earlier.

And we're like taking him to task and like measuring his, his plumb, whatever the, a plum, a plum, a plum, whatever. his acumen as a superstar and you're kind of judging him on that and it's like I think he would probably be a Kevin Lovie type guy with those dudes and I think he makes sense and then you think about I think DeBanza is a clunky fit with Indiana like I think Boozer fits both of those teams probably better

but they probably figure it out but yeah I still I still think that Peterson is the thing that everybody's going to walk way happy I think in this top three is my prediction but who has like the karma going for them at one point i thought the pacer's were so like light years ahead of everybody because of the haliburton injury like they deserve the one gap year in order to reset it seems like they're going to definitely have made it sure that they're going

to like put themselves in position to keep this pick because top five at once it gets into five the nine range it goes to the clippers um now i'm not so sure because they really have like really tested the gods here rob is it still like the Pacers deserve the number one pick more than any other team? Or what do you think? Justin, deserve has never had anything to do with it. There is no deserving in life. Like, we are just, things are foisted upon us beyond what we could ever imagine for ourselves

and whatever we could possibly explain. I think with the Pacers, from the moment they traded that pick with those protections, this was the only option. Like, there is no dignity in winning a couple games and getting the fifth pick and shooting yourself in the foot. So you just have to take the losses. Does that anger the basketball gods? I don't know.

I think we've seen enough times that they don't really give a shit about us or anything or fairness. So who's really to say? Well, the other team on the other end of the spectrum, which we talked about before, about teams who might be fucked by the flattening of odds, which seems to be in the offing here, the Bulls might be the biggest loser of any changes coming down the pike here, because they've seemingly missed the window to outright tank. They're just bad enough to be like the eighth worst team in the NBA. Obviously, haven't been a draw in free agency.

The trades have been perplexing to say it best. But, man, I just don't. The Bulls, it seems like their situation, Rob, got worse with all these new things kind of in the ether there. I didn't think it was possible, but I feel worse about them even since the deadline. Well, what is what has caused that to turn for you? Because they were already not very good. Just doesn't like, where, where's the feeder system in order to flip this around?

I guess to play devil's advocate on myself, I do feel like was zealous, giddy, and something else is at least the foundation of a competent team. Like, that seems more intriguing than I thought I would feel about them going forward. The fact that they haven't gotten anything out of a Sengay this year because he was injured, like definitely is a little bit. bit more mixed. But Bezellis, I think we would all agree is probably the nicest thing we could say about them because he's taking us that for, especially late in the season, as like a real deal guy. I don't know what his ceiling is ultimately, but him and Giddy is also quietly playing even like marginally better than he did last year. Nobody wants to give him the credit, but I will. That's something. But like, where is the next stuff going to come from? Because you're not getting

the top picks, like, you're not forcing your way to getting like a top odds in the draft. they haven't really been a draw in free agency, and we don't trust their front office to make true trades in order to get guys in there. So where does the next generation of good Bulls teams come from? I don't know that this is where the next generation of Bulls teams is coming from, but a part of a potentially good Bulls team, I think, has emerged over the back part of this season.

Like Leonard Miller, I think, might be a real player. And that's a guy who was kind of a throw-in in the Rob Dillingham. Iodosumu four second round picks or whatever mashup of a trade. But it's just turned into a piece that I could actually see as being part of the Bulls, in particular because of that framework that you outlined, Justin, which is if you have Giddy and you have Buzellis and you have Leonard Miller, who's another big, lengthy combo forward wing, that's the kind of like length and savvy that I could see building a team around.

I have no idea which guards are going to be here, which ones they're going to keep and pay. It's just like a glut of who knows what at this point. And Billy Donovan's just like, yeah, Colin Sexton, you can run this team as far as I'm concerned down the stretch of the season, which bless him. It does make the Bulls a little bit more watchable. But I do think Miller, he's one of these guys who within the context of how the Bulls play, which is very ball movement oriented, makes a lot of quick decisions. He's never like an imposition, right? It's always, I'm going to cut, I'm going to pass, I'm going to shoot with purpose.

he's one of these longer, like longer, lengthier forwards who actually does rebound that way. And it's actually like an actual force on the glass and not just like a Jeremy Grant type who's theoretically athletic and theoretically long, but not actually rebounding ever at all. I just see him being a good role player for them. And in that vein, he's the sort of not quite second draft opportunity, but like second chance prospecting that I think the Bulls can do if they scout well, if they trade well, if they mine some of these other rosters where Leonard Miller was on the wolves doing jack shit, like not getting to play, not getting a chance.

When he did get on the floor, it wasn't a good fit. Something about the flow of Chicago's offense, though, I think really does suit him. And defensively, he's kind of an interesting, versatile prospect as well. What did you have, Kyle? Did you have Leonard Miller or somebody else? No, not Leonard Miller. I mean, the Bezellas thing, obviously, is something I just had down that they're not squarely in the middle, which is good.

there's still only the 10th best odds. Don't rule it out, man. I mean, Dallas went from 10 to 1. You know, miracles can happen. You know, that was, you know, you could argue on the other hand, that was like a once-in-a-lifetime miracle. I was saying they should, it really, in these hard times where our country's divided, you know, it is nice to see them have some empathy and just give jobs,

giving sanctuary to some smaller score-first jobs. That's something that I think is a positive. And I was even saying, I think they should probably build a statue out outside of the United Center. Maybe put it right next to MJ, a statue of Archeros, and it could say, you know, bring me your tiny, your scores. We could get a real, like, small guard, scoring guard, Ellis Island thing kind of going here. No, I mean, if they scout well and they play well, there could be something in that nine to 12 range that could help them.

Those contracts, I'm joking about them are, you know, they're going to be off the books next to your. The deals, you know, it's not part of the long-term plan, but I don't know, man. I'm just trying. You're trying. I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying to find something positive. I'm doing our best.

I'll say this is my thing. Giddy would be third in the NBA and assist this year. Look at that. He's diamond him up. Now, would he be fourth in turnovers? God damn right, he would. Which is an important combination. But I don't know.

I just feel like he's the type of guy who he's never going to get credit for the marginal advancements he's had. And yes, a lot of it has tended to come in, like low stakes environments or just later in the season. I would say overall he's been pretty solid. Like the shooting has been fine. Like I think he's like a league average or above shooter at this point, which has always been kind of a knock on him. Great. And I do think like he is a pretty special playmaker. And so he kind of has quietly become like the good version that we'd all hoped he become. Like he's not like a the perfect Shay compliment that I think like he was miscast as to

start his career. But like, this is kind of what I would expect from like a 20 million a year guy. And like, he's that. And so credit to him. God damn it. I mean, at the risk of bringing the dark clouds over yet another nice thing, isn't it kind of sad, though, if he became the version we're all hoping and it means, at least right now, almost nothing? That's more a product of the Bulls not having anything for him to work with, really. Yeah. There's a version of this team with this version of Giddy. that does work and makes sense

and gives him a little bit more cover for the things that we hold against him or as you're saying, JV, like the ways in which we don't give him credit for the marginal advancements, which are real. And I think it's been consistent, not just this season,

but over the last two years, you can see this drumbeat of him getting a little bit better in some critical aspects of his game. All right, should we move on to the bucks? Let's do it. I mean, somehow the saddest of all of these teams, just because, like,

down the stress, it's just gotten in addition to the losing and the whole Janus fiasco has gotten even messier than you'd ever imagine where like the Players Association is coming in and being like he's healthy enough to play and the bucks are like, no, I don't think so. Then Doc Rivers is in the middle of all of it being like, not my fault, no my fault. It's just, hey, guys are healthy. It's just like, fuck off, Doc.

And so, like, one of my nice things that I have down here is basically that Doc is probably going to get fired and we don't have to deal with him again. That's a nice thing. When he shows him on a ringer podcast and is now my manager. No, I've just, I've never been a doc guy. And I just find that he's worse in these type of situations when things are going poorly. He kind of like puts the like preserver on himself before he deals with anybody else. And it kind of seems like that's what we're getting again.

I think that the contrast of these two situations too, where you look at what's going on with the Bulls. And it's really clearly not Billy Donovan's fault. Like I think he's mostly done a pretty good job. up with a pretty flawed roster to the point that he now, apparently, if you buy into the rumor mill, might have some opportunities to take the exit door if he so chooses versus you look at what's happened with Milwaukee. And I'm not saying this is Doc Rivers' fault, but he has done almost nothing to salvage the situation. Here's the thing. I want to say this. What he said about the bucks getting unlucky with their health over the course of the season is not like fundamentally

untrue. Obviously, if you lean this much on Janus and Janus gets hurt, your team is kind of cooked. And I say that especially because my one nice thing is that the bugs did do the most critical part of building a team without Janus, which they built a roster that can really fucking shoot.

And they just don't have the guy, or at least haven't for large stretches of the season, to anchor the middle and go downhill and take advantage of all that space. But when you look across, like six different bucks rotation players are shooting 40 plus percent from three. that's insane.

That's a crazy outcome. I want to break it down some of those pieces. AJ Green, we all know that guy can just shoot the hell out of it. That's not a new development. Ryan Rollins has made more threes

this season than Kevin Durant at the same percentage in the same number of games. He's made more threes than Desmond Bain at a better percentage. And this is a guy who coming in, a lot of people were skeptical

if he could shoot at all. And it's just turned himself into a really reliable one. Granted a lot of, that stuff is spot up, but even some of the off the dribble attempts have been fruitful. Tori and Prince, I mean, I have my misgivings about him as an all-around player, but one of the most consistent corner shooters in the league. Miles Turner and Bobby Portis somehow are both among the most prolific stretch bigs in the league

right now in terms of the threes made. Usman Jiang can shoot all of a sudden. It's like the reverse Orlando. You go to Milwaukee and all of a sudden your percentage jumps by five points relative to whatever it was. Gary Harris is alive. Gary Trent Jr. just hit nine threes the other night.

Like, this is just a team that bangs in shots and doesn't know what to do with any of it. And from that perspective, I am somewhat sympathetic to the doc perspective of like, if only you had Janus with all this shooting, with everything, if everything had gone right, of course your season would look a lot better. Nothing has gone right for Milwaukee overall,

except for this one thing, which is they can hit these specific shots and it means relatively little. Yeah, they needed to start running the most. offense or something. I don't know how they're going to work around not having it's it could be an interesting yeah, Jing Jing is the guy that I had written down. You know, he's shown little, he's still only 22 years old. I think he's grown since he's been in the NBA because I was watching him. I forget who he was standing next to the other night. I was like he looks like he's 611 now. He's,

he's gigantic. He's a little chaotic, but he just looks smooth with the ball. That was another little silver lining for them. A less serious one I had here is that they're, they're, they're vintage, like they're cartoon deers among the best logos, I think, at the history of the sport, those old colors. I still don't know about Cream City, I was going to tell you guys. Cream City, probably, you know, you could argue the Cream City. Cream City, that's what happened for Justin when that Mullen Shop went down. I had that here. But no, I don't. It's by the comendary bird.

Blanchee, Flashes. Great. Good for him. I guess in Doc's defense, yes, the ceiling was always so low for this team. It was basically give Janus a fighting chance and then we'll figure it out from there. Yeah. And so we're already starting from a place of low expectation. Practically since he walked in the door, this thing has been fucked. And so he came back into a really tough situation.

Having said that, like, if you just didn't do the dame, wave and stretch, this would have been such a much better situation. even this summer, like you could trade a potentially healthy going into next season dame for something, right? You could clear the salary

or you get like some actual player. But the fact that they have his cap hold based off of whatever percentage it is that stretched out over the five years, plus Miles Turner, who's like fine, this is just going to keep getting worse going into the summer.

Like I just don't know how they salvage this, but I will say my one nice thing on the docket here was that one of their owners came out and was like, we're either going to extend Janus or trade him, which was at the very least something more firm than I have seen from this organization in over a year at this point. Now, he can't be extended until October 1st, which means that they have to go through a whole offseason before they get pen to paper.

But at the very least, he's extended with them in the past. And so, like, they can believe him if he is going to extend and he will. we're at the very least going to get something happening here so we could finally move on with our lives. Janus, I would assume, will be traded. But if not, just go ahead and make the best of it and just shut the fuck up because I'm just like kind of tired with this entire thing. Yeah, do you think after the Players Association has had to arbitrate

whether Janus should be playing or not, that it makes it more or less likely that he extends with them? Like, is this relationship not fully cooked? Well, put on my conspiracy theory as I take off my Yukon championship hat. Yeah. Have to wonder how much that was intentional in order to perhaps make it uncomfortable for him in order to ask out this offseason. Because they have been on this weird staring contest for a couple months here. It's like someone has to be the bad guy.

And like they would be better off rebooting rather than like trying to what, trade the 2032 draft pick over this summer for. the equivalent of Kyle Kuzma, that didn't seem unintentional. So you think that's the Bucks trying to nudge Yonis to ask out and not Yon is taking the opportunity to make the Bucks look like the bad guys so that he could...

I guess it's the same outcome either way. Right. I think the Bucks are holding his feet to the fire intentionally. And they need the draft pick. Like that is probably the future of their franchise plus whatever they trade him for. Like that should be the North Star is whatever draft pick they get this year. No.

All right. That's all the nice stuff we could say about them. That wasn't even that nice. It was barely nice. Yeah, you were firing Doc Rivers as one half of your nice thing. A lot of sound bites in that one. Yeah. Can we hear Justin know about, you know, the one rebuild that really matters,

which is what's going on with your bathroom renovation right now? Oh, man. This one might be more. disappointing than what's happening with the bucks, unfortunately. No. Because I sit here today in the same spot where I left you guys, where no progress was made, unfortunately. Because what ended up happening is, you know when like you're constantly thinking about

something, but you finally like sit down, like put everything else aside and you have that level clarity on something that you previously didn't? Well, that was me last week when like work stopped and I looked at the bathroom and I'm like, oh shit, like there's piping here that looks a little older than it should be. I should get a plumber to come out here and take him with it, that walls open. Let's just, the wall has been open for two months. And I finally decided now is the time to do that. Well, it took like until Thursday to get the plumber out here.

Now he's going to come back tomorrow morning. And so no progress was made there, unfortunately. But I did replace my garden beds with some nice metal ones. Okay. I was out there, dig literally hands in the dirt and also compost. started to smell a little bit after the fact, replacing four garden beds, tearing those bitches out,

throw in the wood into a different part of the yard, because just moving it a couple feet, like psychologically meant something to me. And then replacing them with these nice metal ones that I screwed in, screw by screw. There's like 50 screws on these things. My hands are a little raw from them.

But those garden beds are talking about rock bands are they the deer of the show. Just wanted to... This is what the people want, man. It is, it is genuinely what the people want. It is what I want. So, I don't want you to shortchange, Justin. I mean, the clarity in that moment of what you actually need to do with your bathroom,

that's an important step forward. You know, the acceptance that you can't do it all, that you do need a plumber on occasion, the DIY Justin sometimes needs to be sent to the bench so the pros can come in. I think that's an important step for you. That's Justin finding out Jay Huff's not going to be part of the rotation. That's the same that sequel. It's true. I also became a hardcore espresso guy over my break. How were you not already?

It's surprising because- Into coffee already. Didn't we have a long conversation about this? I am, but I've always been like a straight coffee guy. Like, yes, fancy carafe and pour over style sort of dude. But like coffee at this point, like affects me like water does. And I was like, shit, I either need to go all the way forward, become an espresso guy or go all the way backwards and just not drink coffee.

That wasn't an option because I'm a dick. And the best thing is like I instantly got all of the fancy accessories and the nice maker and like I'm I'm like dialed in from the jump. And much like you guys perhaps if you were in your own little indie band just like getting all the fancy moogs and like all the effects pedals. Like I got all so many pedals. Yeah, I got all the little little filters and the little stir shit. So like espresso guy. That's what I did. I became a real man.

Are you just going around town telling people about your pulls, your espresso pulls? Is that what's happening right now? No, I save it for podcast content. I mean, as you must. It's really great stuff. I don't want to burn that valuable stuff. I think that's everything I did.

So you drank, you made coffee, and you called a plumber. I swapped out some garden beds, and I got some roofers. That's true. to take a look at my roof. I need to replace a roof, Rob. Okay, that's not easy. We have some thing going on over here. And in fairness,

you listen to Kyle and I podcast, which we appreciate it. Well, like the first like 15 minutes. Wow. I never listen when I'm not on the show, so, you know, I'm not offended by that. Kyle's legitimately offended. Like, he's trying to play it off,

but I could tell that he's left here. No, you're, I have a nice force-fueled. You're little lasers of, they don't reach me. I know who I am. I'm comfortable. We've come this far. We're good. Justin, I can assure you, you can't hurt you. I used to be in a ska band, Justin Verrier, cannot hurt us with your indie rock takes. It's just we're, we simply can't be harmed in that particular way. That's behind. I'm listening to smooth jazz while getting my hands in the dirt in a

garden. All right, my friend. Man. I love that. All right. Let's wrap it there. We'll be back on Thursday with the second part of this. We'll talk about five shit teams from the West. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Victoria Valencia. We will talk to you next time.