The Ringer NBA Show - Say One Nice Thing About the West’s Bottom Six | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

No Wos today, so Justin and Rob are here to give their thoughts on the bottom of the Western Conference in their annual exercise of finding one nice thing to say about the worst teams in the West: Suns (8:25) Mavs (18:51) Trail Blazers (32:55) Spurs (50:32) Pelicans (58:56) Jazz (1:08:23) Hosts: Justin Verrier and Rob Mahoney Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Barrier. No big Waz today, but we do have back in action. Brian Winhorse's actual best friend. It's Rob Mahoney. What's up, buddy? If only I were so lucky. Brian Winhorst, intrepid reporter, genuine good guy.

Would love to be his best friend. Brian, if you're out there, get at me. But, you know, that's still aspirational at this point. For now, I think I'm going to have to settle for you being my best friend, Justin. Waz being my co-best friend. This is who we are to each other. I just got to say up top, I don't know how much we want to talk about the Stephen A, LeBron, Clash, because it is everywhere at this point, which I find just perplexing for a variety of reasons.

But we are pro win horse on this podcast. There's not a doubt in the world. Or something, just the show that we stand with Brian when it comes to this, because just a side swipe. And one of the best to do it, the best ever do it, I thought was pretty ridiculous. So, Brian. Yes. Especially under the circumstances. Of all the media people to take aim at at this point in time,

the people who are going around doing multi-platform, multi-channel victory tours based on insulting LeBron's son and then having a confrontation with him, fair game. I think that's on the table. Take your shots. LeBron, by all means, go on Pat McAfee, say your shit. How Brian Wenthorse got looped up in this, I don't really understand. But here we are.

You know, I think it's important that we say it if no one else does, Justin. You know, Brian is legitimately one of the best in this business to, to it. So shout out to him. No shout out to LeBron. Certainly no shout out to Pat McAfee. And no shout out whatsoever to Stephen A. Smith. It really gets me thinking, you know, like should we be attacking the sons, the children of current NBA superstars? You think that's like a good lane for us? Because it seems like a very profitable one. First of all, you've already done this many times. Many times. Am I going crazy? Off the top of my head, I'm remembering you and DeMar de Rosen's daughter and having takes about.

her interfering in NBA games. I remember you having some deuce takes, maybe even some curry children takes at the press conferences. Okay, you're right. There is a pretty long track record. I'm just saying, like you've been out in these streets. If anything, maybe you should be mad at Stephen A for trying to bite your bit. That's right.

I should be. I got to say, I see a deuce video every, like, other day at this point. You need to get the camera away from that child. He's too overexposed at this point. But yeah, no, the whole thing has just been so crazy to me. I think the one takeaway I have from this, not actually about like who's right or or anything like that is like, I never want to hear another nerd say that the reason why the NBA ratings are down, that the NBA is maybe like in a weird spot going forward because, oh, maybe

social media, all this other stuff. I want to hear anything about the product being why people aren't watching because we have now gone through what, a week plus, maybe even two weeks of the Stephen A. brawn clash where that is the only thing anybody cares about. So it's not about the basketball. We watch the basketball. And yes, we want to talk about the improvements, what we could do differently, because we will be investing in it. People don't watch the NBA often, the casual fans, for the actual basketball. They do for the tension for the drama of it all. And so just, just no more like, oh, we need to change too many three pointers, all this other stuff. It's not that.

Just let me tell you. Well, I mean, there's also the LeBron aspect of that who has been an advocate for let's talk about the game. Let's talk about the game. Also, let me go on ESPN and air my grievances, which he is only human, fair enough, but we are trying to have it always all the time. And I'm with you that ultimately, you cannot extricate the game and the tension that you're talking about from the various beaves that are happening all around the league at any given point in time. Like, it is part of the product. It has been part of the blood and the life of the sport for so long. I don't know why we would try to get rid of that. I think there's a way we can talk. around it and incorporate all these things together.

The conversation about LeBron, the conversation about tension, like, obviously you don't want a media member and a player beefing in quite this way all the time. But as far as the tension on the court, I think it's mostly aided by a little animosity in the air. Yeah, it also struck me just like how late age LeBron is. I know we talk all the time about how he's doing things beyond his years. He's 40. We talk about that probably every couple weeks at this point.

But it did really strike me how just personality. body-wise, he's definitely aged into middle-aged because the two things that I think most about when it comes to like getting toward middle age is one is like losing all sense of like when you're around people, like spatial awareness. Like you're just bumping into people and people are just like nudging you when they don't think about it. Maybe because they have kids and so they're just not as aware of like where you are. But I'm constantly with like middle-aged people getting into little tiffs over that. But also just like being crouchy about absolutely everything. And it just seemed like LeBron, for whatever reason, got on to McAfee, decided to do an hour

and just like shit on everything. Like not, it just didn't seem really happy about the product, didn't seem really happy about the way he's being discussed on and on and on. It just, it was like a really weird look for him. But I guess as middle age people, we should be, uh, at least receptive of where he is. Absolutely. I mean, did you find anything deeply recognizable in those kinds of, that kind of grousing? Like it must be comforting on some level to know, Justin, that even if you were

blessed with extraordinary basketball abilities, that you were the best player of your generation and maybe of all time, that you have incredible privilege and wealth and power and have an unimpeachable place in the history of the game, that ultimately you would still be a little grouchy sometimes. I saw

myself in LeBron for the very first time. I'll say that. He did seem more like approachable. Like he was swearing all the time. And I know even on this podcast, whenever like I feel like I'm being most genuine, I swear a lot. And so I don't know.

Just on the one hand, it was very weird and definitely outside of what we've seen LeBron, like very manicured. Like I have all the PR people around me who has completely shaped my image since the Miami debacle. On the other hand, thought he was pretty honest, thought it was pretty interesting. I agree. And I never want to hear anything else about him and Stephen A. But if he wants to be more honest about things, I'm happy for him. I'm cool with that. Yeah, the LeBron dad energy, I think, translated nicely into the dad hanging around other dads and finally saying the thing.

it's actually on their mind. Yeah. We could use a little bit of that. Not just there, but I think across the world right now. Or maybe you in a tank top? I don't know if you want to pivot to that as your bread. Yeah, that's not going to be it for me. I'm sorry.

Okay. Maybe Waz can feel bad. He does have the guns, I think, to fill that out. He busts out a tank sometimes. He might have even podcasted in a tank at some point in the group chat history. He's a tank guy. But we are going to, we do watch the NBA. And so we are going to go through not only just like some of the basketball that's

happening there, we're going to go through some of the worst basketball. that's been happening of late because we are doing the second half of our two-part podcast where we say, or at least try to say, nice things about the worst teams in the NBA, the absolute shit of the NBA. We are going to put a rose, put a bloom on all that. We did the east last week. We're going to do the West this week a little bit more difficult because technically the suns and the Mavs are tied for 10th.

The sons, I believe, get the tiebreakers at this point. But we'll see you going for it. But as we're recording this on Thursday afternoon, they're tides. We're going to do both of them because Waz isn't here. So I feel like we could let our freak flag fly a little bit. Along those lines, in addition to being a tank guy, our guy, Waz, under the weather right now. We hope he gets better soon. Do you think Waz got a little case of the Utah Jazz flu?

Do you think he saw the slate and was like, you know what? I'm not ready for these jazz takes. I think it's not a coincidence that he skipped this pod. Yes. I think he saw what was on the dock and he was like, maybe this is one I could sit out. But look, the NBA season is full of these borderline moments, right? You got a little nagging injury.

You got a little illness. We need Waz for the stretch run, ultimately. And so if he needs to nurse up with whatever he's got going on, I fully saluted and support him. Okay. One of those teams that is certainly nursing. I wouldn't even say necessarily injury-wise, but maybe just pride-wise would be the Phoenix Suns.

We have to start with them at number 10. do you want to go first? I think this is a difficult one, especially considering after getting absolutely lamb-based by the Celtics last night without Jason Tatum. Yeah, I found them to be the most difficult. We've talked all throughout the season about how bad the vibes have been.

They've changed dramatically lately. Proceeding the Celtics game, finally had some rhythm, finally had a little bit going for them. And I think that's in part because of one big positive thing that's been happening lately, which I think that Mike Boonehulzer

has finally found a little bit of life and energy in his rotation, that the Sons have been lacking all season. Colin Gillespie in the starting lineup, Ryan Dunn, Oswe Goddaro, Cody Martin's been a nice boost for this team in that regard. Like they've actually found a little bit of juice. And they have the creation.

They have the scores. Like, we know that. The question has always been around the edges of that. What do the lineups look like? Are those guys doing the role player things? And I think the Sons are finally doing some of that stuff in a way that is certainly more pleasant to watch than it was earlier this year.

How much of that are the new? guys coming in, the Gillespie's, the Duns who have the energy, and how much is it that old guys not playing, namely Bradley Beale? Well, certainly Yusuf Nerkich, getting him up out of there. And frankly, Mason Plumley, who just like was not up to snuff as a regular NBA player. And so getting him out of the rotation, trading Nerkich, those things are big. At this point, I find myself being a bit of a Beal apologist. I think he's been put in a tough spot in a role that doesn't particularly suit him in Phoenix ultimately. But it's been a pretty good player having an okay season.

He just isn't, as you allude to, the kind of player that they need, the kind of role player, the kind of effort defender, the kind of, you know, back cutter and offensive rebounder. Like, they need guys to do the shit that Booker and KD aren't as good at or just not as inclined to do. And Bradley Beale is not that. And so, yeah, changing over the nature of the rotation and getting some fresh blood in there. And I'll even say, to kill one of my darlings in the process, like,

Tyos Jones, I think, was a little bit too measured and too calm and too, like, too overall, like, orderly in his style of play for what this team needs, which is someone who's going to get into people defensively who's going to create a little bit of chaos out there. And Tyos Jones is not a chaos agent. So bring him off the bench, change things up a little bit. And ultimately, you start to see a son's team that finally has a little bit of life in it. They needed the chaotic energy of Colin Gillespie, just the madman out there. I literally never would have predicted it. The fact that Colin Gillespie has stepped in, preceding his son's tenure,

I would say is most known as an NBA player for once looking at Jeff Green on the bench and calling him dad during a mic'd-up moment. Now is not just a starter, but like an actual impact player in a lot of these games for Phoenix. It's completely wild to see. We've got some real good, like, jabs

from the miced-up moments of late. Not only that one, which I love, but also the trend of me. Watford one that you're having a down year, which we talked about on Monday's podcast, but like, that was fucking precise. I'll say that. Because Halliburn was like trying to come back. Well, I was earlier in the season, I guess.

And I guess in totality, he is having a down year in comparison. I think he's like, he's like three months late on his group chat pods turned to Watford. It's like he needs to catch up on the times in which I would say Tyreys Halliburn has not been disappointing for quite some time, nor have the Pacers. it was just like a very specific like cut you know and I think it really got to Halliburton which is why he was so mad and trying to argue with a bench player for the Nets in the same way you'll often find me arguing with people on Twitter just about the dumbest fucking things um well you in this case you are Tyrese Halliburton I think so yeah you know I just wanted

to clear it out I mean you've said a lot of incendiary things about Tyrese Halliburon on this podcast and otherwise I just wanted to clear the air a little bit maybe it's because I see myself in him okay Wow. We're ultimately most frustrated with ourselves. That's very true. The Gillespie fine, though, is so fascinating. Obviously, he was drafted by the Nuggets and he went to the Sons because the Nuggets just didn't have a place to play him. The Sons have been quietly pretty good at getting some of these guys at the deep end of the rotation and finding some gems.

I mean, Dun's another one. I've always really liked his game. The shooting is kind of come and gone. I do think he's going to have to shoot in order to be the type of player that we thought he could be earlier in the season. season, but not only Gillespie, but like Ty Jerome, I believe, started with the Sons, and he's gone on to a couple other teams, sure, but also ultimately found himself to Moni Kamara, guy that we will certainly be talking about later on this podcast. Good Lord, do they need that guy. I think every team needs that guy, but I think the Sons in particular need that exact

player. So unfortunately, the Sons have a good eye for talent. They just don't tend to keep these guys. And if anything, they've been trading these guys in order to bring back worse veteran players who just haven't been as helpful. And some of that's because of the financial constraints they've been in. They kind of have no choice but to search the bargain bins and search the second round and the undrafted ranks and find some good quality rotation players basically out of nowhere. You don't want to put yourself in that position. But if you're going to do it, at least they're turning out some reasonable NBA talent. I think the gap between what is reasonable and what is successful is why we're talking about the Sons now, as opposed to talking about them as like an actual playoff contender,

which they may kind of worm their way in by defaults if, you know, Dallas. for example, drops off a little bit. There's room for them here. But their season is disappointing for a reason. I think we're finding the silver linings in it, but even though silver linings have their limitations. So one of those silver linings, or at least the one that I kind of want to zero in on here,

is just Kevin Durant. Yeah. I was just watching him pull up from mid-range last night. It's just like, how many more years can this guy actually do this? Because obviously, LeBron has gotten to the 40 age plateau here, or benchmark here. I have to wonder if Katie, is on that course and because it seems like he cares most about his own legacy or at least

him maximizing his own individual potential, maybe being so horse blinded to that, that he actually forgets the fact that he needs to have like good teammates and maybe make a little bit better decisions with the guys that he surrounds himself with. But man, third best effective field goal percentage of his career, 27, 6 and 4. He's having another incredible year. We talked about going into the season that the sons need to take more three-pointers, need to be less of a bagman and be a little bit more practical, pragmatic, and efficient. And like, he's done that, 43% from three on the most attempts from three he's had in his entire career. So he's been just as good as he's ever been. And I start to think to myself like, man, is his next contract going to go

into his 40s? I know the over 38 rule will cap him, but like, I think he could play like four or five more years doing this. Yeah, he could play a long time. I mean, he's still, an impact defender if you give him any reason to put in the work on that end and to rotate effectively. If the sun's had anything more going as a team in that regard, I think we'd be talking about him in a different light. He's just an awesome score. And we'll look, we have to take this opportunity to talk positively about Kevin Durant while Woz isn't here because this is how these conversations tend to go. But ultimately, look, zoom out. There are two other guys in the entire league who are scoring as much and as efficiently as Kevin Durant.

And those two guys are driving the MVP conversation. That's the class of score and creator that Kevin Durant is still in, even as the sons have all these problems. Their offense is not really the issue. They still have some fourth quarter troubles. They still have some turnover issues now and again. They're still trying to find how to create some sense of balance and kind of like a natural logistical drive out of what they have, which is not a traditional offense without

traditional point guards for the most part. Yet Kevin Durant is not the reason. those things are stalling out. He's, if anything, the reason those possessions are getting saved and bailed out at the buzzer or bailed out in tough one-on-one situations. And even while doing that, he's putting up this crazy efficiency that you mentioned. He's got to be, what, second team, all-MBA, or at least in line. I haven't really done it, not even like the back of the envelope in a little while here.

One thing is, he is going to come right up against the gameplay mark. He's at 60 right now with nine to play. So he really has nine games in order to play five. And you wonder if things just hit a complete disaster zone. that maybe they'll shut him down toward the end. Seems unlikely. I think he'll get there, but definitely in the mix for,

if not second team, and certainly third, if you could just get past the fact that the sons are complete catastrophe and have been by far the biggest disappointment in the NBA this season. But yeah, no, I just keep thinking about,

like, his legacy and what he can mean there. I do think the one thing that, like, I can't not see at this point is the fact that, like, his legs are so life that I do worry for his health long term

more than I probably should. maybe this is like latent like him not being able to do a one bench press at the rookie combine two decades ago. But you know, this is a guy with major leg injuries, two of them in his career at this point. And just seeing the way his legs kind of like bend almost like chickens, I'm like, man, I really just hope the wrong thing doesn't happen to him because I think he's the type of guy who would want to just stick in the league for like as long as humanly possible. We see these coaches like Alvin Gentry, Doc Rivers, who just stay in the league in part because I think they just like hanging out an NBA arena. as like, I think KD beyond his playing career will probably just be around in a way because he's just, he's a real hooper, you know?

This is what he does. Like, he doesn't want to go do anything else. He doesn't want to become a coach. Doesn't want to work in a front office. The dude wants to fucking ball. And to what we were talking about earlier, I think his skill set and his size give him an opportunity and like a runway to do that for a pretty long time. Like he's always going to be a guy you could park on the perimeter and spot up and

space the floor at a really high level and with a really high threat to like, like, opposing defense. What's going to change over time is his ability to manufacture those shots one-on-one, to run pick and roll, to be going downhill in any meaningful way, and of course, kind of what he's going to be defensively. But he's already so big and so long, I think there will be a place for him as long as his body holds up. So yeah, that is the variable. The lower body thing is always a concern with anyone his size, especially when it's not just his size that's so valuable. It's his ability to shift directions and change and pull up with balance. Having all those things as you move it into your 40s is just unprecedented, really, in the NBA, even with someone like LeBron who just

doesn't quite play like Kevin Durant does. Yeah. Well, speaking of guys who can pull up in the mid-range and get whatever shot that they want, I think for the Dallas Mavericks, we need to talk about one Najee Marshall, who put up 38 goddamn points against the New York Knickerbockers. One assists. And I have to say, if you watch the highlight reel that I found on YouTube, the most popular one out there, of his performance that night, the, the sizzle reel starts.

with his one assist, which is literally just him on, uh, beyond the arc passing to another guy at the top of the arc and that guy immediately hitting a shot practically unguarded. And that was his one assist from the night because this guy who I think we all thought might be more of in the three and the prototypical mold, but at least that was what he was to a certain extent with the New Orleans Pelicans isn't hitting shots, isn't hitting three points. If anything, he's dribbling his way into the midrange and shooting over the top. He's actually, like the ball handling skills way more advanced than I ever expected and maybe even the Dallas Maverst expected because they didn't expect him to be taking this many shots in an NBA game.

But I have to say like on the one hand probably needs to get the shot going in order to fit the role alongside some of the creators, the Kyrie's, the ADs that you need. But the fact that he has his other element into his game has been a pretty nice little find here as things that are going to shit in Dallas left and right. They've done a pretty good job as a collective front office of finding guys like Najee Marshall. like Dante Exum, like Derek Jones Jr. They have dug good role players off of other teams and put them in slightly adjacent roles

and all of a sudden you see different parts of their game really, really sing. I did not know Naji Marshall had this mid-range capability. I did not know. He just apparently has one of the best floaters of anybody in the NBA. It's just a thing that he does on a regular basis now. And I think what's such a bummer about the Lucas situation overall and the Kairi injury and the Anthony Davis injury

is that Naji Marshall has been so good. specifically filling the gaps for those stars when one guy has been out of the lineup, usually because of injury. But ideally, in a perfect world, Dallas would have two of those stars, and he would be a guy coming in and off the bench or filling out the starting lineup,

who then while Kyrie sits or AD sits or Lucas sits, is giving you some of that production he's proven himself to be capable of. So it's just like a complete opportunity lost in so many ways for the peak Najee Marshall experience, which is a type of role player Dallas has not really had enough of and desperately needs and the circumstances that would have really allowed him to thrive.

I feel for him, I feel for the team like this is one of those things where some of the things went right and yet you shot yourself in the foot in such a colossal way by trading Luca Donchitz. How sorry for you could I really feel? So he's shooting 28% from three. That's got to get up my guy.

Like there's no way that you could survive on most teams as a role player shooting that percentage. But I just think like, you know, if Kyrie comes back healthy and actually comes back because he's almost certainly going to hit free agency this off season and it's going to be due a pretty healthy payday. If Kyrie's there, if 80's there, like, Nogh's the exact type of guy you want with a little

bit more dribbling juice in order to create, especially if Kyrie's getting blitz and whatnot. I think he slots in very nicely into the future of the Mavs if you do want to entertain the idea of a future of the Mavs at this point. He's also been, to give credit words due. The one assist game, I think, is not exactly representative of what his floor game looks like because he's had a lot of really good facilitating efforts for, Dallas in a way that... He's a willing passer. He wants to play team back.

A willing pastor, not a visionary one, but by the nature of being as aggressive as he is and as good getting into space as he is and playing off of the role and taking passes and doing things with it knows where they need to go. And you've seen a bunch of games where he's wound up with kind of like Draymond Green type stat lines. And that's something that also the Mavericks really need, right? Like if your best players are going to be Kyrie Irving post-return and Anthony Davis going into the future, you need good connecting passers.

And whether the Mavs can afford to keep Naji Marshall, I think is kind of another subplot to tack on to the can they keep Kyrie Irving question. It's also just a dog, you know? An absolute dog. And that dude plays really hard. And you saw the effect that like his energy and just ferocity brought to the Pelicans last year. I do have to say as I'm watching the bones of the Mavericks as they're just like trying and

scraping Kyle Jones minutes together, like two-way guys that they can only hold. on to for a week or so because they have to get rid of them because they can't pay for a second two-way contract, although Kai Jones, hell yeah, got them back in there. Just like this team plays hard. Like there's a lot of professional pride, at least in-house with this team. I keep thinking about, have you ever watched the David Simon series Tramey? Actually, if not. Okay, I think I was the only one to watch it, and I think I did so before I moved to New Orleans. So I'm on another level with just as research? Like, you just wanted to get to know the area better before you touch down?

No, I actually just, like, found being around in the city was nice. I actually thought it was one of the better, more underrated Simon series. But I understand if people didn't want to watch it because it was a lot of atmospheric mumbo-jumbo. Whenever someone was forced, one of the musicians was forced to play on Bourbon Street, there would be a tongue-in-cheek line that they would say to each other, like, there's a lot of pride on Bourbon Street, right? Like, oh, yeah, you got to play. but you know, there's pride there.

It's fine. I think about that a lot while I'm watching the Mavericks because there's a lot of pride with that team going on despite some pretty extenuating circumstances. This is an incredible pull by you. I will say Exhibit A in such pride, Kessler Edwards, who had all of like, I would say six seven in lifts, more realistically probably like a solid six six and wiry at that,

has had to fill in at center more times than any. man his size reasonably should be asked to do. I wouldn't say he crushed it, but for a player of his, of his particulars, of his physical build, did about as well as you could do in those circumstances. And I think definitively kind of proved himself as an NBA player. Another one of these guys we had profiled as a 3-and-D type purely supporting role player. He is that in a sense. But he's also such a good cutter.

He's so natural and kind of finding the pockets around the rim. I think he showed that you don't just want to park a Kessler Edwards in the corner. You want to put him in the dunker spot. You want to put him at that like 45 angle cut. Like you want to give him an opportunity to do some different kinds of things versus just be a static presence on the floor. That's a great turnout for a guy who basically was cast off by the Kings, among other teams, to find some footing in the league

and to prove that in a desperate situation, you can call on a Kessler Edwards. You can fill minutes with a guy like this and ultimately like squeeze out some wins and be competitive in games that you have no business being competitive in. Wasn't someone a player with a podcast, and now they're like 90, bazillion player podcast, so I get them confused at this point, basically suggesting that Kessler

Edwards wasn't even like a two-way NBA player at this point. Someone was like really going hard at Kessler Edwards and I was like, that's a very weird gripe, but you know, I'm here for a guy. I believe the person you're talking about does not have a podcast, but it is former Sixers legend, Nick Stouskas, also former King's legend, Nick Stouskas. That's right. Yes. He did not imply that Kessler Edwards is not an NBA player. He straight up said, this dude is not an NBA player. And Nick Stouskis, you are wrong. I'm sorry. Just just woefully wrong. Yeah. Who do you like in this 10th seed race? We talked about it a little bit on Monday with Pina.

It's going to go down to the wire. Like I said, same record at this point. Do you think the Sons will ultimately pull out the last playing spot or do you like the Mavs? I kind of think the sons will. I mean, getting Anthony Davis is a huge change in this race ultimately. But the Sons have a little bit more to play for right now and the MAVs, if we're all being honest, could really use a little bit of a lottery chance. Just like something, something to shift the luck in the room because having a no-kiry injured Anthony Davis-led Mavs team that's basically a mass unit even now trudged through a single playoff or a single play in loss, I don't think is going to lift the spirits in any meaningful way. And these guys are playing hard and they are fighting for that

opportunity. And so I don't want to deny them that. But if we're talking about what these teams could really neat. I think Dallas needs the lottery odds, even if they're marginal. And Phoenix desperately needs something to go right this season and probably needs to force their way. And then they have the tiebreaker kind of in their back pocket as far as those two teams are concerned. So I see Phoenix getting a little bit of edge based off of the motivations of the team, the ultimate like rhythm and momentum of where they are right now is giant Celtics loss aside, but who expected them to beat the Celtics. And ultimately just kind of like what they are starting to build with some of these role players in the lineup and the juice that they've been able to give them.

So you were boots on the ground in Dallas this week? I mean, not in a professional capacity. Sure, but like boots on the ground. Actually, this is probably more of a war zone, which would be outside of the arena. Yeah, I was boots in a Mexican food restaurant. That was the kind of reporting that I was doing. Okay. How would you describe the vibe going on right now?

Horrendous. Like, absolutely horrendous. shout out to my friend Michael who begs for a shoutout on this podcast a la Waz's various shoutouts to his friends and state farm representatives I was hanging out with him over the weekend if Waz knew him he would be shouted out like nine times

there's no doubt but as I was spending time with him it was like every six hours or so he would remember that the Mavs traded Luca Donchich it was like he was reliving the trauma absolutely over and over and over again and so I think there's the breed of people who like the MAVs who have sworn off the team and are done and have followed

Luca to the Lakers or otherwise or just kind of checked out on this season. There's the version that's just like perpetually angry and have stayed MAVS fans, but the rage is building, the protests are building. I'm very curious to see what the vibe is going to be like in the arena for Luca's return game to say the least. And yeah, then there's just like a deep existential pain that comes with all of the various losses that the MAVs have suffered this season and previously, the way this is kind of tapping into some of the, like, frustrations over the way they lost Jalen Brunson previously,

like the way that some other stars and superstars kind of pass the maves by or escaped out the back door. It's for a team that has some titles under its belt and literally just went to the finals last season, the idea that we are here talking about this team in those terms and Rick Welts is on the broadcast, like begging people to give the organization a chance to prove themselves. Yeah. You did this to yourselves. Like, you chose this outcome.

You didn't have to try to win people back. you could have just been winning games and probably had a nice, yet again, pretty successful playoff run with Luca Donchich on your team. Oftentimes it sounds like when people talk about what's been left over in Dallas, like it's after we vacated Vietnam. You know, it's just like, we just came back from the shit. You wouldn't believe what we saw over there. But this is why the Najee Marshalls are important.

This is why the Kessler Edwards is are important. Like they need something to hold on to. And I want to give all due credit to this, too. like we're talking about the role player into that spectrum. Kyrie Irving was awesome before he got hurt. Really good all year, not just in terms of the shot creation, which Dallas so desperately needed,

all the Kyrie stuff that we've become accustomed to and he's been lauded for, the handle, the finishing, the poise and crunch time situations, just has acclimated himself as a rather remarkable leader and I think has finally, over these last couple years, successfully channeled all of the respect he has around the league. Like, Kyrie is a guy who so many young players have come

and grown up watching and idolizing and looking to him for some little element they could bring into their games and watching his highlights and seeing the huge moments he's been a part of and how he conducts himself and really respecting that a lot. And Kyrie, since he's been a Maverick, I would say,

especially, has taken all that and led the younger parts of the team in really positive directions, has picked guys up in a way that he didn't earlier in his career, has really made himself part of the fabric of this thing. And I think part of the misfortune and I say tragedy that might be a little bit like overwrought for what we're talking about, but what would be unfortunate about the circumstances if Kyrie does leave in free agency,

which he could do, would just be that it would end on such a sour note through no fault of him. Like for him to want to walk out the door at this point, I don't think anybody could blame him. But it would be great to see him back on the court in Dallas with a chance to see this through, with a chance to prove himself again post injury and kind of find that form that's been so instrumental to the Mavs being as good as they've been. do you think that's like a major shift in perception locally with kairi like when he first got there were the reservations like was your friend michael being like i don't know about this guy especially considering like the way that he left brooklyn and kind of left a lot of people high and dry

james hardin in particular do you think it's like a major shift or were they more open and receptive to him because when he got to there he was really kind of like a hired gun almost lebron when he started out in l a style i heard a lot of mixed feelings about it and polarized feeling about it because Kyrie is just that kind of player and especially at that point in time was stirring up so much shit with the nets for all kinds of reasons and the idea of this is the guy we're going to bank the future of this team on and our our chance to build something around Luca on. He is aced basically every test that he could ace since that trade went down. And so whoever didn't believe in him at the time and that's me included,

like I did not think it was the right gamble to make given the stakes of everything involved. he proved me totally wrong. Moved a lot of people totally wrong. And that's why it just sucks to see him go down with an injury this major when he's also playing so well in addition to everything he's doing off the court and in the locker room

and for that organization. He's made himself a part of who the Mavericks are. And for them to miss that at this stage in the season when they're still trying to be competitive, it's just a really tough outcome for everybody. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Basketball fans know that a great assist can change the game and there's no greater assist than one from State Farm.

State Farm is here to help you navigate the right coverage for your home, car, and more. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. State Farm, Bloomington, Illinois, coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. Well, let's go now pivot to a more uplifting tale where my boots are on the ground, where my blundstones are on the ground pretty regularly. Yeah, do you just clear out and you do a solid 30 on all of the Blazer storylines that you've optimistic about? I almost feel like I need to abstain here because I have so much positivity

on record at this point throughout the year about the Blazers. Like, if I add more, am I going over the top? I think you would be living your truth. I don't want, I don't want you to suppress any ounce of who you are, Justin. Okay. I appreciate that. We appreciate that. We appreciate that. important. We got to let the free flag fly, as it were. I have a couple I could really go to here, but I feel like I've talked a little about the Scoot Renaissance. I think we've talked ad nauseum at this point about the Deni Abdiya Renaissance. I think oddly enough, I don't talk enough about Tumani Kamara, who has just been an absolute revelation for this team. Like, it's funny to me, it still feels like he hasn't pierced through into the mainstream, even though I watch this guy every

game. I talk to people in the league. I talk to executives and coaches will say it publicly. Players who have just gotten their ass like, like hounded for 30 plus minutes in a game, talk about it pretty openly after the games. He's one of the best defenders in the league. And it's just kind of remarkable. I know he had that to him. I guess last year was more of like the prelude, the preview to what he's been this year. But like he's guarding Shea. He's guarding Steph Curry. He's guarding every top remitter player. But then if you look at the at like his top matchups in the league. I think Nicola Yokic is in the top 10. Like he spends time on Janus, like, just the combination of the athleticism and like the doggedness and like the smart

read he has in order to anticipate things. It's partly why he's been the league leader in charges taken this year by far. I think he's 10 up on the next player. He just has like the versatility in order to guard practically everyone and to switch on to everyone. And honestly, it's not just the defense at this point. It's also start to filter in the way that he plays offense because I thought he would just be a catch-and-shoe guy and he flows so well and does so many different little things that you're starting to see that part start to round into form.

And so like, I think this guy isn't just like a 3-&D defensive extraordinary. I think he's going to be just a very good basketball player. I think this is what you're starting to see some of the smarter teams do with their role players is give them more opportunities to break out of the 3-&D mold. Whereas, yeah, when push comes to shove, we want to put the ball in the hands of our best players and a Tumani Kamara type player you're going to be somewhere, right?

It's going to be in the corner, it's going to be on the wing, maybe it's on the baseline, whatever makes sense for your skill set. But as you're developing, if you're in a position like where the Blazers are, don't just park him there and make that his destiny. Give him an opportunity to explore

in the way that Denny Avdi has been able to explore, right? I think Denny had more observable ball skill and passing and facilitation coming in to his time as a blazer than Tumani Kamara did. But ultimately, if you don't think Tumani Kumar's shot is ever going to be elite, you're really aided by having him have a handle, have the ability to connect dots, to attack off the dribble, to challenge a closeout and really do something with the ball. And I agree with you.

Like, that's where he's really been pretty effective and I think ultimately much more confident. But all of that hinges on the fact that his defense is so fucking good. And overwhelmingly so. And what he's missing, I think, as you were outlining the lag and perception for a guy like Tumani Kamara, who, just to be clear, should be under all defense consideration this year, even with the Blazers, you know, in relative mediocrity slash fighting for the plan, however you want to define their season. Tumani Kamara is a deserving candidate. Oh, God, that's a little sharp. I mean, that might be generous given what's going to. Hotest team in the league over the past

month or two. I don't know that I would say that. Among the hottest teams in the league over the past two months. They are among some group of teams at some relative hotness. That is indeed a thing that's happening. But Tumani Kamar has been a huge part of it. His defense is a huge reason why their defense overall is quite solvent and pretty solid for a team

that's as young as they are. And I saw a great stat from Owen Phillips who has a substack called the F5 that I love and it does a lot of good data journalism among other things. And one of the stats that he pointed out was the top 50 players this season in defensive stops. That's steals, blocks,

that are recovered by the defense and drawn offensive fouls overall. Number one, Dyson Daniels. Maybe a candidate for a defensive player of the year. Certainly, we'll make an all defensive team has been awesome. We've talked about Dyson Daniels a lot. Number two, Tumani Kamara, ahead of all of these bigs,

all of these, you know, defenders of even greater acclaim, your Ludoort types, your Amen Thompson types, right there with the best in the league as far as actually ending place. And that's what you love to see from a player who can, who can move his feet as well as Tumani can,

who can shuffle, who has the size, to have the position of flexibility you're talking about, Justin, he just looks like a switch monster, a stopper, like a defensive player of note to monitor for the rest of his career. Glad you brought this up, because I do think that is one of the biggest part of his case, because he doesn't do a lot of the flashy things

that typically gets you attention when you're a defender. Dyson Daniels deserves all of the attention he gets. His steal, I think he's up over 200 steals on the season, which is on. unbelievable. I think he's averaging over three a game at this point. Like, so yes, but it is a little flashier than something like Tumani, who basically is just getting stops, which is a little bit tougher to quantify. He's getting a lot of just like offensive fouls drawn, the charges, also flustering guys into turnover and whatnot. And so I think that has to be a big part

of the calculus. Tom Haversstow has done a good job of putting this stuff out on the Blazers broadcast as well, because you do have to do a little bit more work to see it. And also, like, who's watching a lot of these players if they haven't been watchable until the top of this year. So I get it. But I'm glad he brought up all defense because I kind of did like a rough accounting of where we might be here.

Because I think if you are paying attention, Tumani should be in consideration. I think he should make it at the very least second team. But I want to go through some of the names I have down here. First team, I have Mowgli, Daniels with an absolute bullet. I imagine one of them will probably win defensive player of the year. I also have Jaron Jackson, Jr., another guy who I think will get consideration for that award. Agreed.

Lou Ador, best defender on the absolute best team, best defensive team, one of the best defensive teams of our era. And Amen Thompson, who I don't think we need to talk more about. Men Thompson, we do it all the time. The next, like, tier, though, I think that's when I could certainly see him get into the mix. Dremont, Chris Dunn, Rudy Gobert, Walker Kessler. And now I should mention the guys who I presume are not eligible for games played and also maybe even minutes consideration. Alex Crusoe, Chad Holmgren, Jalen Suggs, Porzengis, Anthony Davis, guys like that. So a lot of the guys that could be the next year aren't.

I actually think we might need to do a deeper dig on a guy like Chris Dunn because not only is there a 65 game limit in which you have to cross the threshold to be eligible. You also have to play a minutes restriction. Like you have to cross a minutes threshold within those games. And I want to say that Kevin Pelton of ESPN pointed out earlier this year. that Christone was kind of like underrepresented in terms of those like the qualifying games in a way that may ultimately rule him out of a race like this

but that said award or not all defensive team are not Chris Don fucking rules and I love watching him play defense and I hope that he's eligible because I would love to at least consider him if not put him on a ballot yeah did I miss anybody there I think I'm not I would need to go through

and see again who's like actually eligible for this just given the games missed but I think you hit the biggest ones Janice, maybe. I still think Rudy Gobert is deserving of consideration for this. I think his work for Minnesota is just woefully unremarked upon, given where that team is and the way that they've been able to pull their season together. OKC is interesting just because I think a number of guys could ultimately pull votes.

And I would guess if you are a Shea MVP voter, you may also think highly of Shea's defense, which is very showy in accounting stats kind of way. Not to mention just I think overall quite solid. for a star. And this is always where all defense gets interesting. It's like the guys who get rewarded are often not the career role players who are defensive specialists. We tend to ultimately vote for guys who are like good offensive players, but also play great defense. And so I wonder if someone like Tumani might get boxed out for that reason for the sake of, you know, a star who otherwise is maybe not as good of a defender as him, but relative to their workload, we like to lionize.

I know that I'm not objective. If anything, I think I've crossed the Homer threshold. told a couple pods ago. A couple months ago. But I will just say as someone who watches him, basically every game this season, who sees him live, who just appreciates just his progress and like what he's been able to do. He deserves not only consideration. I think it's like kind of criminal if he did not make at least second team. He's that good. He's good.

One of the more thrilling players to watch on the floor, the fans love him. And I just think he's, he's damn good. you know, so I have other stuff down here, but I want to see the floor at some point to you to dig in the other conversation. Well, I think we're on similar pages. I mean, I think you're right about Scoot. We've already probably talked about him and his improved shooting and his improved play overall enough, but we need to put a bullet on it, put a huge note and highlight next to him based on the way he's been able to turn his season and his career around. Shaden Sharp is a one-on-one score. I'm still incredibly impressed with. The other parts of his game, sometimes leave me wanting, but what he does with the ball is undeniable. And it's such a key component of what you think he can ultimately be, right? Like there are the litmus test elements of his game, otherwise passing defense floor game, all these things.

But what he does as a score is something that not a lot of players in the league can do. And so when you start from that place, you want to believe in everything else. You want to believe that the other elements of his game and ultimately the team can kind of pull together in a coherent way. I just, I remain incredibly impressed and somewhat flabbergasted by the offense. He's able to create out of really, really tough spots. Whatever dog is in Kamara just like does not exist in Shaden Sharp. I don't think so.

If Kamara is a pit bull, then Shaden's like a poodle. Italian Greyhound or something. Like there's, he's a little too cuddly, you know? That's pretty good because he is very sleek and dynamic. For sure. I'll give him this though, despite him being super sleek. leapy and you almost want to like shake him and be like, you're the most talented motherfucker on this court. You could literally float in the air. What are you doing sometimes? I will say that the shot has been

atrocious this year, which is mildly concerning because it looks beautiful. And I think that is going to be his ultimate like path in the league. He has to be just like a knockdown shooter. He has to be just such a weapon offensively because the defense is probably going to wax some way, depending on how much he wants to give a shit. The fact that he has made a considered effort while the shooting has plateaued to drive the ball as much as humanly possible is of credit to him because good things happen to him. We talk about this on press roll all the time. When Shaden is aggressive, Billups loves talking about this. When he gets downhill, good things happen. And I think to that point, like it's the at rib numbers of late. I think I saw it in like March or something like that.

He's shooting like 80% at the rim or something like that. It's like kind of remarkable because he's just a super athlete. He could just make things happens. And that's why when we were doing the drafts a couple weeks ago, like, I want to buy into him still because there's just so much talent overflowing with him. Yep. There's so many elements of the Blazers that I really like. And that's why they're so captivating as a team because it's like, if they just had this or that, maybe it would all pull together in this way.

If their key players just got a little bit older and a little bit more seasoned and started kind of refining their games, maybe this team would really pop. Donovan Klingan is another one of those guys for me where the games where Donovan Klingin hits. And by that, I mean, where he's just dominating the paint and turning everybody. away. You just, you see a coherent defensive future for the Blazers and you see an incredible career for Donovan Klingen. That's not every game though. It's not every matchup. And there are times where he gets in foul trouble. There's just like opponents who are not particularly good, like,

well suited for his style of defense and how slow footed he kind of is. So I would, I am eager to see him kind of like level out and become an every night sort of impact defender. But the nights where it's working are among my favorite nights of defense to watch of anyone. And the league. He's just so massive and has such good facility and like good defensive touch, if that's a thing, and anticipation in terms of just like his ability to get hands on balls in the air. Not something that every big can do. I think he's a really, really good like innate timing that makes me very hopeful for the kind of rim protector he can be. The defense is going to be there. And so I can only see him having a floor of being like a situational shop blocking big. Like I think

he's going to have a long career as long as he stays healthy and also really keeps the weight down of being just a go-to shop locker. I think he's going to be one of the best in the league. He's just a massive human, even in comparison to other very good, very good, very big NBA players. The touch offensively, I think is what really needs to come along because he's not really like a throw it down, just, just like, just bully people around the rim, just even finisher at this time. And the touch is just like not really there. He kind of bobbles some passes here and there. Obviously, the shooting is something that they're hoping will come around. He's taking those threes.

I think that's good for a team at this point in this stage of their development for him to be doing that because if he could knock down one or two, just warps the floor in ways that I think are going to be advantageous. But I think you saw against the calves the other night where he really, like, he was going for it. Maybe he was just pissed off that Yukon got bounced in the NCAA tournament and his run, his legacy got disrupted a little bit there. But like he was going for in a way that he typically doesn't.

I almost wonder if he's the type of kid because he was such a low-level prospect because he kind of like hit those massive gross bursts and all of a sudden he's the big man on campus at Yukon like has a little imposter syndrome that which a lot of people do you know podcasters and NBA players alike certainly uh I think he really needs to like get up and when you see that click in when he does play with ferocity like he's a completely different player he just needs to do that half a season I want to see half the season I want to see every single game out there but it's there he's a big old boy you know you can only be so bad I mean it just sounds like Portland needs some dog transplants.

You know, they need a, they need a little bit of a different bite and a different energy in some of these guys. Or in Klingin's case, maybe he's in more of like a dog share where he's, he's splitting it with a former partner or something. And he doesn't have the dog in him all the time. But when it's there, you really respect it. Last thing I'll say here, because we're going on probably 20 minutes. This is literally the last one because we've talked too much about the blazers. Just like, we got to keep it moving. No, this one's good, though.

Jeremy Grant hasn't had a very good season by any measure. also just not playing of late and I do wonder about the future of him with the team. I don't know if you've ever been to Jeremy Grant's Instagram which is just... I could tell of it, but I can't say I've spent a lot of time there. The legends are true, my friend. Because he might be the most Portland person

I've ever encountered and at one point I was in an Uber and there was just like a cat in there. So there's like some wild things going on in Portland. Here are some recent things that he's done. which he has Instagramed with great glee and excitement. He cooked meat on an outside grill. Like, it's just like one of these like cool hip real videos of him doing a bunch of different things.

Okay. He's like, he's just like in a cast iron pan in the dark making some sort of meat. And I was like, okay, that's cool. He really is one of us. I don't know what to tell you.

It's true. He was shopping for fabrics. He was sitting pensively on a log by the coast. He was in a pottery class. He was plenty of. a game boy while eating fah. And then he was also either playing or watching

someone with like some sort of sitar sort of instrument. Okay, yeah. But it almost looked like a harp but made of wood. Well, aren't harps made of wood? No, but like more like like beachwood, not necessarily like some handcrafted thing

by an expert, yeah. You think this was maybe a homemade instrument of some kind? I don't know what was going on, but this guy lives the type of life important that I wish I'd had. I would like to alert people that if you're not following him at this point, you should. It sounds incredible. I need to get on that. I mean, I respect literally every part of what you just described. I have one follow-up question, which is you mentioned he's playing

Game Boy while eating Fah. Are we talking OG gray brick Game Boy, sleek Game Boy Pocket? Are we talking like the horizontal situation? What orientation of Game Boy was he playing? I think it was OG, but I think it might be one of those like new versions where it's actually a digital screen. Oh, like one of the emulators that it's like bootlegging all this shit. Not to, not to blow up Jeremy Grant's spot. Like, we're not officially saying that he's emulating anything, but hypothetically. Yeah. I mean, you know, you want the old school vibes with the comforts of modern technology,

which I think we could all appreciate. It seems like that's what he was doing. All right. Let's keep it going. We got to get to the spurs. Okay. We have three more teams. were 15 minutes

this from my cast. Jesus Christ. Next up, San Antonio Spurs. What are you got? I want to talk about Victor Webminyama as a rebounder.

We talk all the time about his defense. We talk all the time about what he should or shouldn't be doing offensively and the stretch and kind of his place in the modern game.

Victor Wehameyama is 7-3. I don't need to tell you that. You would think that a player of his size of course is going to pull down all sorts of rebounds. And there is a degree

of his game that is like a dude plucking fruit off of a shrub, right? Like, that is a part of the experience of being 7-3. That said, historically speaking, players of Victor's size and larger are almost always crazy lanky, have super high bases, get boxed out of rebounds pretty often. Your Manute Bull, Rick Smith, Sean Bradley, even Yao, to be honest with you, not like an

awesome all-time level rebounder. Victor Weimiyama right now is basically having or was having before his season ended, one of the best rebounding seasons ever for a player his size. with one notable exception, who we should also say is active in the league right now and Zach Edie. Another long boy,

the long boys are back, Justin. They're rebounding like never before. They're having a huge impact on the game in multiple ways. And I just think this part of Victor is so crucial in terms of how the Spurs are going to go

about building their team. Because you want all of these counterpoints to the things he can do. I think if he's a good rebounder, one of the avenues it opens up is the kinds of players you can have at the four are not just stretch four types,

which you could have if you want space and you want Victor kind of going more and more to the rim, which fair enough, you could also have kind of power, like a traditional power forward type next to him, who may be a little undersized, but is good at scoring inside and isn't gobbling up rebounds

in a way that Webbenyama might be, but ultimately there's like a symbiosis that can happen there between everything that he brings to the table and everything that like, we talk about these guys all the time. You know, you're Duwan Blair, Ike Diogu, like these are relatively low bars to clear as far as like who you want playing

next to Victor Webb and Yama, but a burly inside player who could actually make a lot of sense working alongside him whether he's a good rebounder or not. What I'm hearing from you is a backdoor case that the Spurs should trade for Jonathan Cominga.

I don't hate it. Oh, okay. I don't hate it. But this is what opens up, right? Like guys like Jonathan Kumiga, guys like Jonathan Isaac even, right? Like guys who have really high specific value. that is not rebounding. And if you have him there

and you have enough guys in the back court who are competitive, like Jeremy Sohan's another kind of like positionally weird player who could fit this mold potentially as he continues to grow. But I just think this is one part of his game that we don't talk about enough.

He's a sleek and clever passer. He's obviously a good and threatening shooter. He does things because of his size that no one else can do and is one of the best room protectors in basketball would have been an all NBA player this season in part. Because among all those other things,

he's also a really high-level rebounder which is something that guys his eyes just do not do historically. Yeah. It's a bummer we haven't gotten the second half of Wembe because he was just so ready to take off here. And obviously Damien Lillard, we should mention, is also going through something similar. He probably won't see him for the rest of the season. So just a really tough time for some of our favorite players in the NBA right now. But I do think it's probably little telling that you didn't pick any of the current players playing for the San Antonio Spurs right now.

I can do that. Do you want to talk about some of those? Well, I do. But I don't want to go with one of the young guys. I actually want to talk about Chris Paul, who somehow under the radar has played every single game in the NBA this year. He is up to, I believe, 71 games played. He is on track to play 82 games at 39 years of age. I can't believe it.

Like, not only that, but he's been just so helpful. I don't know if, like, on a high-level competitive team, he'd be playing 28 minutes a game. but he's just so good at organizing and making sense out of all the disparate talents that they have on this team. I just like, God damn, we talked about LeBron going for like trying to play every single game. Paul is actually doing that.

Yes. And significantly smaller. And so therefore, it's much more difficult when you're that age and that small to carve out advantages, to stay healthy. Like, it's an impossible thing. And I have to say,

I think the way that the spurs have managed Chris Paul's season and the way that he's managed his season have just been A plus across the board. he's had an incredible impact on that team. This is, despite everything that's been going for and against the Spurs this season, a pretty solid, middle-of-the-road kind of offense. That's crazy, given who hasn't been playing and when? And yeah, defensively without Wimby,

they've just fallen off a cliff. They have no means to be competitive defensively without Victor Webenyama. But Chris Paul is a huge part of the reason why, despite everything else, no Fox, no Webbenyamba, these guys out of the lineup, these misfitting, like these ill-fitting parts, all of a sudden they're just kind of hanging in some of these games

and they're ultimately able to run coherent NBA offense. And so as usual, we salute Chris Paul in this podcast for all of the work that he does. The Rockets traded Chris Paul in 2019, in large part because it seemed like him and James Harden just butted heads a lot, happens a lot to Chris Paul, frankly. But part of that was also, I think, the fear that his body was breaking down.

The thunder, in fact, had a very like complicated process for him in order to like manage his minutes and all this other stuff and he was kind of like, I kind of want to play a lot of games. And since then, maybe it's the vegan diet. Maybe he's doing something else. Maybe he's just like sucking down bone marrow before games. I don't know what this guy is doing. But like that's been six years now. And he's been a steady presence in the lineup. And he's still awesome. He's going to be 40 in May. Like, God damn. That guy can play three more years. And I have no idea what is what his future is going to be. in kind of the refreshed full season of Deere and Fox era of the San Antonio Spurs.

There's a lot of different permutations that could work for him there or elsewhere, but I kind of hope he sticks around. I think he works with Fox. Clearly, we've seen some early indications of that. Also is such a great backup and kind of a steady hand for a group of young players that I like on balance, but need some guidance and need some orientation to understand what they're supposed to be doing on the floor at a given moment. And as far as players that you want in Stefan Castle's ear for a certain,

indefinite period of time, a great one to have. Maybe not so long that he grates on Stefan Castle in the way that he grates on a lot of other people, but we're still in the window. We're still in the honeymoon stage, ultimately, of Chris Paul. And I just think he's been so good at exactly what the Spurs wanted him to be. He's fine with the Youngs. It's the old that he has a tendency to grade on. I don't know that that's entirely true.

I think there are some Youngs historically that have not necessarily appreciated his guidance. There's a point, as with all of us, where a certain amount of that's a certain amount of chiding hits the wall. Okay. So maybe we won't bring Jonathan Camingo back into his life then. Yeah, maybe not. Yeah. I will say also Spurs, their own pick looking pretty valuable right now. And as we've seen in years past, the Spurs are probably going to luck into base Bailey or something and they won't even have to trade for anybody else.

But speaking of lottery luck, a team that has completely devoted the back end of their season to that. Hold on. I don't want to move on from the Spurs so quickly. I think there's at least two things we need to hit before we move. move on. One, Sandra Mamu Kellechvili just scored 34 points in 19 minutes,

something that has never been done before in the history of the league. Does it mean anything? No, but it was not mentioned on this podcast and simply must so long

as I am sitting in this chair. So shout out to Sandro for an incredible historic accomplishment as a member of the San Antonio Spurs. Also, I want to give a quick shout out

to Harrison Barnes. Corner Mark Marksman, rock solid pro, was left for dead by the Sacramento King. Straight up salary dumped because they

did not think it seemed that he was a useful NBA player anymore. He is second on the team in total minutes. Amazing season for Harrison Barnes, really cashing in on yet again, doing the exact kind of veteran shit this team needed. I believe the Spurs got a future pick or maybe a pick swap from the Kings. Yeah, they got the trade.

Which is insane. And he's just a totally like, awesome adult in the room for a team that needs exactly what he brings. It's crazy. Very high in the Spurs future. Not as high on the future of the New Orleans Pelicans, although I do think you're seeing a little bit of things as they go down the stretch that have shown that glimmer of light

that we all kind of fool ourselves into year after year after year. We can talk about a lot of things here. I think we've got to talk about healthy, jacked as hell, Zion with what looks like the goatee from Shep from above the rim. I don't know if that reference is dated for our listenership these days. It doesn't even mean anything to me. I'm going to be honest with you. Oh, come on.

How about evil abed from community? Yeah, yeah. We're getting a little closer. There was some like symbolic nature to him having the go to because he means business. And good Lord, has he just played out of his mind now? He's missed the last three games with, I believe, a back issue, which isn't great. And is the story of Zion that he is so fantastic that he just isn't available all the time in order to display those feats. But going back to our friend, Owen Phillips, who I believe is a ringer contributor back in the day,

he has this stat that Zion is the most double-teamed player in the tracking history. So dating back to 2013, 2014. So over a decade at this point, Zion has been doubled more than any single player in that span. Not only that, the second most double-team player, the gap between first and second is the same between second and 100. So maybe that speaks to the quality of teammates he's playing around or their inability to like put the right team around him. But it also means Zion's pretty fucking good when he's playing.

I don't even know that it's like the quality of the team around him because Zion has played with good players. They're just often not players that make a lot of sense together. And often they're players who can't space the floor in the ways that you need. So yeah, if you have the option of standing on the tracks when the train's coming through or forcing the ball to Jose Alvarado to chuck a three. I know which way I would go personally. All of that said, what's underlining all of those facts

and the decision making therein is that Zion is basically unguardable one-on-one at this moment in time. And he's doing it in all sorts of ways. He is just one of the most aggressive drivers in the league. One of the most aggressive players are getting all the way to the rim and finishing with force and finesse, a combination that I honestly just don't really see among the elite young players today.

Like there's a lot of guys who finish well, dunking but don't necessarily have the touch on layup. Zion has a little bit of everything in terms of his actual skill set once he gets close to the hoop. He's been awesome. And he's been awesome, even in some ways that are a little surprising to me to kind of like smuggle

another pick in here as far as, you know, nice things to say about the Pelicans. Kelly Olenick has had a really nice impact on the team since coming over in the Brandon Ingram trade. This is a team that desperately needed any live front court body. Anyone who can play power forward and center minutes

the Pelicans needed you. And they brought in somebody who not only can do that, and I think has been sort of a bright spot for almost every team he's played for in a limited role. Like just come off the bench, fill in the starting lineup. Kelly Olenick makes some things happen that are usually quite positive.

There's been some lineups with Zion at the three and Kelly Olenick at the four and then plug in your big of choice. And look, there are very varied results, depending on who that big is and who the pelicans are playing against. But even the idea that you would play Zion at the three and that you now have a mechanism to do it

in a way that makes any sense whatsoever. And some of those groups have been quite effective, very tantalizing to me. I don't know how realistic that is when you have Trey Murphy and Herb Jones and all these guys back, but throw it at the wall, see what works.

Let's get a sense of kind of the types of mismatches that Zion can attack and excel against and what it can open up for the rest of your team. I don't mind it as sort of like a look within the look. Well, Herb Jones is the center. I don't know if you've heard. That's true. But also a point out.

Also a point could, yeah, I feel like every new season, we're going to go in and Zion is being sold as a new position. Like next year it's going to be like, he's our shooting guard guys. Didn't think it could happen, but he could do it because he's just that talented. I'm glad you highlighted Olinic because I do like the bench players they got from Toronto in that trade for Ingram, not only Bruce Brown, who's just like versatile in the way that you want and like fills gaps in the way you want around a talent like Zion because Zion does something

so well, but so specifically, you also want all the other guys around him to maybe chip in in different areas in order to come for some of the things he doesn't do, for instance, like, Brown is going to be a physical defender, but also like get on the boards and do like a little bit of playmaking, a little bit of shooting. Like, he's exactly the type of guy you want around him. The same way, like he served that role for Yokish. He will just do enough of the little things. But Olinick is at this point been the career guy you turn to when you can't get an actual stretch big, like the one you want in order to put next to your precious front court score. And he's so good at that.

Because, yeah, like the irony is he's actually, as far as shooting, one of the few, like, actually good and reliable stretch bigs in recent NBA history. But maybe he doesn't give you enough of the other things that you want. Yes. Although I will say, playmaking the other day, I know it's worth the depths of March. But yeah, he had like seven assists the other night, which was pretty incredible. Just so skilled. Yeah. And I also think he might like convince teams that he's more of a big than he actually is because he's so much bigger.

He's like wider. He's a little girthier than like another. like four or like a wing masquerading as a four he's like a four a five who should be a four and sometimes maybe even a three because defensively he just doesn't bring the wood but he's like this perfect situational big you want in a rotation specifically around zion because if you want that option yeah let's put more juice on the on the floor and he's going to be able to knock down shots so i really like what he's been able to do i do too i think ultimately here's one of the things i like about New Orleans. I love that Willie Green is

willing to let guys try stuff. And we saw that with Herb Jones last season expanding his playmaking, bringing the ball up. We've seen him play some center at times, as you mentioned. We've also seen it through Trey Murphy, whose development has just been probably the single best story coming out of New Orleans this season and turning into the kind of guy who I don't think Trey Murphy's vision and playmaking is ever going to be at a super high star level per se. But going from stretch option and good kind of like

compliment to someone who now can be a legit 20 a game score running pick and roll. A dramatic change in everything that's happening in New Orleans and sneakily, part of the reason why trading Brandon Ingram and kind of moving on from that experiment is not such a bad idea and it's totally manageable under these circumstances.

There's still all these pieces that the pelicans have to fit together. But now one of them can play a variety of roles from the wing. He's a natural kind of floating between two, three, four. He can be on and off the ball. He's a plus defender. He's a good spacer if you need him to be just like purely a spot up guy while Zion cooks or

whatever else you want to do. I just don't know what Trey Murphy can't do. And that's a great place to if we're ever going to talk about what coalesce this year that actually bodes well for the pelicans. That's got to be the one. Trey Murphy is definitely the new favorite pelican among the bloggerati. You know, like everyone at the ringer fucking loves Trey Murphy. And if you follow our top 100 rankings, you could see him slowly climb those charts past Joelle and B, the former MVP because everybody loves what train Murphy does. And I also think people really respect how much time he puts into his game. Like the self creation that he was flashing post-inggram trade, he had a couple 30, 40-point nights. Just because he typically in years past was more of a catch-and-shoot guy, but like he was making things happening off the dribble, stepbacks, little side steps, little hesitation moves in order to get more to the rim.

Like, that guy seems like he's a real baghead. Like he really takes the time to work on his craft. And so I could see him being even better than he was this year. Like I could see him being clearly like a number two guy on this team, like the next running mate that you want next to Zion, like a top 30 sort of talent. Like that guy's good. And in fact, that's like the entire Pelicans roster. Like I have to go till like the 10th and 11th spot before I just don't like a guy on their team.

Yeah. Unfortunately, they'll end up winning 30 games next year and nobody will. Well, nothing will change. But like they have the talent to do something different. This is why we have to have a rule on a group chat that we never. trust the Pelicans. Because on paper, there are always so many reasons

that we want to believe in them. And frankly, even this year, they've been bad, just consistently bad. They have a weird roster that had zero continuity, given all the changes

that they've made and how injured guys have been in the past. They could not afford major injuries and basically everyone got hurt. Dejante Murray out. Brandon Ingram,

before he got traded, was obviously out. Trey Murphy, now out. Herb Jones has been out for a long time. Everyone but Zion, coincidentally,

has had like a significant and long-term injury on this team. There's still a part of me that wants to think if you get some of the guys who are left, healthy and back. All of a sudden, it's looking more like a playing, at least play an adjacent kind of group, if not right there in the thick of things. And so why not the Pelicans is our perpetual mantra to which someone else on the podcast has to say, no, we do not do that here.

I'm sure as we're recording this, we're just not looking at our phone. Zion has requested a trade and that's why he hasn't been playing for the past thing. Entire entirely possible. Because let me tell you, that's going to percolate over the summer as well. But maybe they'll luck into Dylan Harper because they're going to have one of the best lottery odds. And that will just help them give it to the next era where they'll ultimately disappoint despite being very, very talented. Yeah. Last team on the board.

Utah Jazz. I have one and I think it's the same one that you likely have, which is Walker Kessler. Got to be being an absolute monster on the boards. We put them back into our top 100. Speaking of our rankings, which have been refreshed and are up on the ringer.com right now. You can check those out. Danny Chow had a stat in there about Walker Kessler. who jumped back in in the back end of our rankings.

8.4 block percentage career-wise for Walker Kessler. The only players to do that with at least 3,000 minutes in their career, Kessler, Wembenyama, Manubal, not Bowl, not Bowl, and Jim McElvane. He's a goddamn monster. This is why, I'm not going to say Walker Kessler is untradable, but he is the closest thing that Utah has to a real building block, a solid foundational player who you could see being a part of the jazz

for years and years to come. And there was a swell of conversation around like December, January, where fans of so many teams are in the league were like wish casting their way into Walker Kessler trade machine ideas. Guys, this guy is not available

for like your late first round pick. That's not, like, he's way, way too good. To the point that I know we're not in the habit of just like raving about the defense of players who play for some of the worst defensive teams in the league, which the jazz are. Walker Kessler, as we alluded to earlier,

is a legitimate all-defense candidate. He's one of the best rim protectors in basketball. He would be our go-to, this is the best young shot blocker in the league, if not for the existence of Victor Webbenyama, and he's sort of overshadowed by just the proportions of Victor down there. But overall, Walker Kessler's an awesome presence in the paint to have. And I think most importantly,

to kind of pivot from the Donovan Klingin conversation we were having, he's looking so much more comfortable around the basket, trying to exert his force on offense. This is something where he had such a weird year last year, kind of up and down. It seemed like he was really in his head about the role he was supposed to play

and kind of like what his touches were and how to make an impact on that side of the floor. It's wildly efficient. I think more confident than he's ever been. It's also now doing this weird shit where he just shoots like six threes a game sometimes because the jazz are in the position that they're in.

We're going to talk about that. Yeah, if you consider that a success, I think depends on what you judge their goals to be. I would say it's been quite successful for what the jazz are trying to do, which is let him try it out and who cares what happens to the bottom line of this game, which that's what Utah should be doing. You've been hearing a lot of consternation about tinking.

You might say to yourself, dear fan listening at home, what? Like all my favorite players, they're suiting up. Like, what's the issue? Like, they're not just sitting out games anymore. There's no more load management going on here. Oftentimes, that's because those players are starting and not necessarily finishing. So if you look at the slow deterioration of the minutes for teams like, oh, let's say the Washington wizard, it's like Chris Middleton, huh,

not playing as much these days. That's part of it. And also Walker Kessler, I appreciate the development and the time he's getting in order to flash this part of his game, which he never will again in the NBA. But it is reaching Mark Madsen level of what the fuck are they letting this guy doing because he has taken 55 three-pointers in his career to date. 27 of them have come in the past six games. Not six weeks.

Six games. He was one for eight, I believe, the other night. He is jacking. And it's fun to watch if you do fingers of watching a jazz game. But like,

good Lord, the jazz are pulling out no stops in order to get flag. I think as far as overall silver linings and nice things we could say about the jazz, Walker Kessler is a huge one. Overall, though,

this is just a team that through those sorts of tanking enterprises, like the performance art of Walker Kessler taking a bunch of threes. The lineup decisions of Will Hardy overall, which I would say are not optimized to like win tonight. They're optimized for development, which is totally fair given where this team is. The stash of draft capital that this team has at its disposal and is not like pushing in right now, and I'm not saying that they should. Lowry Markinen, who, and I'll say the veterans across the board, like we, you know, there's news today that Jordan Clarkson is kind of shutting down for a while with some planter fasciitis.

Plancharditis is a real thing. It's also a thing that players play through all the time, depending on its severity. I think there's a lot of like conservative timetables with the jazz right now, like not rushing guys back, letting the veterans take their time on, you know, on the IR. All of that is well and good

and is within the rules of what you're allowed to do if you're a team in the jazz's position. What I'm trying to say is this is a team that could be a lot better if they had an interest in being a lot better. What I'm wondering, depending, and this may depend on the way that the lot, like the ping pong balls bounce in the lottery

for the jazz and who they end up getting. I'm a little worried that no matter what happens, Cooper Flag or otherwise, they may be staring down another season of this. They may be staring down another season of slow burn development and that might be healthy for the franchise overall, but might lead us next March

to be having the same kind of conversation about the relative bright spots of the Utah Jazz. And I am eager and ready for the next phase of their development. I know no one wants to rush anything, but I would like to live in a world where Lowry Markening can play competitive basketball again. Yeah, I think he would as well. Although it seems like he's just hanging out,

counting his money most of the time. I mean, it's a good life. Good work. On the weekends. I know. It sounds fucking sick. I will say if they do luck into flag,

which they presumably will have some of the top odds in order to do so. I almost wonder if he's such a maniac. And the more and more you hear about, like some of his work ethic stuff, he is absolutely like Kobe-brained and some of his approach to doing stuff like this, just like an unbelievable competitor. I don't think that they could be so bad, especially because like you mentioned, they have like four guys who are just like helpful NBA, NBA players, like marking in all these other guys. They might be too good in order to bottom out for what

would it be like the third time at this point. You only get two tanks is what I'm saying. If you get flag, you don't get another one. Even though AJ DeBonsa is coming and I know he's a Utah guy. He's a BYU guy coming up here. You got to be careful. You know, they might be too good next year for this exercise. They might be. be, I think ultimately with them, they could trade almost anybody. Like, Larry Markening included, like, if you, if you were to tell me and ask me, like, who, who are the members of this team who will definitively be a part of the Utah Jazz Renaissance? I would say Walker Castle is the closest to an answer you're going to get.

Other than that, I don't think there's anybody who's kind of really planted there. And that, so the idea of like, oh, you're doing these many consecutive tanks, yes, in a way, but you're also kind of starting fresh with whoever they get. Like it's it sucks for a fan base. It sucks for people who are invested in watching Utah Jazz basketball grow. But it's just going to be a longer process, I think, for this team. Because they have the job security and they have the flexibility to see out the process. And I just hope on the other side of it, that stuff all pays off.

Yeah. Speaking of which, we should plug Kyle Mann's home and away where he went to Utah and explored some of these same issues. So give that a check out on YouTube.com slash ringer MBA, I believe. That's the one. ring your NBA. Ring your NBA. There we go. Why don't we wrap it there?

Because we've talked over an hour about really bad teams. With no was. Like, what are we doing? We really, like, pop the cap here and just, like, had our best time. All right. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz.

We'll be back next week. Have something special in store for one of the episodes next week. So stay tuned for that. But we will talk to you.