The Ringer NBA Show - Say One Nice Thing: The East’s Bottom Five | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 31, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos say goodbye to the worst teams in the Eastern Conference by saying one nice thing each about the Nets (8:50), Raptors (19:32), Hornets (28:43), Wizards (39:09), and Pistons (50:38). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Tucker Tashjian Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, humanoids. This is David Shoemaker. The pro wrestling world is currently on fire. And so we've got you covered five days a week on the ringer wrestling show. Every Monday and Thursday, hang out with me and Kaz on The Masked Man Show. And this is Peter Rosenberg, the host of Cheap Heat. Join me and my guys, Stack Guy Greg and Dipperstein on Tuesdays and Fridays. We talk wrestling. We have bagel breakdowns, mage interviews, and so much more. And Ben Cruz here. Come kick it with me, Cal and Brian on Wednesday. Worldwide, where we hit the most interesting headlines and even react to some of mass mans, cheap heats, or even your hottest tics. Don't tap out. Tap in to the Ringer Wrestling Show feed. Now on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

And stay mage, everyone. Worldwide. For group chat, I am Justin Verrier and joining me as always. Rob Mahoney, Big Was. On this Easter Sunday, we are here to praise him. And by that I mean Austin Reeves. Why? Can we get an amen?

Amen. That brother is praiseworthy. He's a godsend to his team. He has come to lift the hopes of an entire city. And yeah, salute. Salute to Austin Reeves. I say this not lightly, but Jesus Christ, guys. What are we doing?

What are we doing with our lives on this show? every episode is about Austin Reeves and somewhere or another I guess Yeah any egg hunts For you out there Rob Not this year You know

Playing it pretty low key I come from a rich family Heritage of not egg hunts But egg fights Where they would save up Empty eggshells all year Fill them with confetti And then it ends in like

An all out assault Of a huge extended family I gotta say I miss those times I'm missing a little Easter Sunday carnage in my life right now That's what I'm feeling the void of. You're saving egg shells all year? Is this like a health hazard? It's a very delicate process. The very, very immaculately cleaned. It's a whole process. You clean the eggshells. You hollow

them. Basically every time you use an egg, you just make a tiny hole at the top and preserve the majority of the shell and then clean it and then use it for Easter Sunday warfare. This is the weirdest shit. This is sickle behavior. Yeah, yeah. I can't argue it. Just trust me, you saw it, you would feel so much worse about it. We're not doing that stuff on the East Coast. I'm happy to say. All right, today's episode, we're going to get to the second half of our say one nice thing in honor and in order to say goodbye to some of the worst teams in the NBA before we flip to the postseason

and the play-in and whatnot. We're going to do the East today. But first, we need to talk about Malik Monk, who unfortunately seems like my be out for the foreseeable here sprained MCL four to six weeks. It's probably going to take him to May at the earliest. The play in, of course, happens two weeks from now, three weeks from now in mid-April. So Rob, what do you think about this one? Obviously disappointing for Monk, who's had kind of probably his best season of his career at this point. He's in an unreal year and just been has been so essential to Sacramento's offense and everything that they try to do, really important structurally to

keep their rotation intact. And so to not only have him out, but Kevin Hurd her out at the same time, you're just putting a lot on Keon Ellis and on Davy on Mitchell at this point. It's a lot of responsibility for two guys who can struggle offensively in particular. And at a time of year where Sacramento ideally would be gunning for that number six spot and trying to lock in playoff positioning, now they're left thinking, okay, I don't even think realistically they can make it to six with those guys out and with the way they've been playing over the last month or so.

But how are they even going to fare in the play in against an up and down Suns team, against the Lakers team that's very hungry, against a Warriors team that may or may not have its shit together on a given night? But all of those teams at this point at least feel a little healthier than the Kings are. Yeah, and obviously what he's bringing on the court in terms of just a score, a pure scoring punch. At times, he's their backup point guard, like in terms of setting up offense and initiating for them. You know, he's stepped up.

by his measures anyway in the playmaking department obviously their emotional leader like he's the guy ramping him up setting a tone like temperamentally for them a lot of times and you know I'm just happy he's done enough

to get himself a nice check this offseason he's going to get paid and he's very well earned it it just sucks that we're not going to get to watch this guy in the postseason because for my money, he is one of the most electric players in the entire NBA right now. What he does in transition, obviously the three-point shooting, the ball handling.

It's incredible to watch on a night-to-night basis. So I think just as fans, we're really robbed of the experience of watching this guy do what he does night-to-night. I hope he makes a speedy recovery, though. Yeah, Wazen, we did the mailbag. We had a listener question about the most fun players to watch in the league. And that listener suggested Malik Mun. as the most watchable player.

It's kind of hard to argue that. So Malik Monk currently is tied for 10th in the NBA in clutch total points. He is 11th in average clutch points. That's one spot below his friend, Dier, and Fox. He just seems to hit another level. Like, he cannot miss when you get into that crunch time, period. And so for that reason, it's going to be really disappointing, just even to see them in kind of a big state's game in the playing and whatnot.

But I do think one of the trickle-down effects of this, Rob, is if the kings aren't whole, if they don't have monk or herder in there, I do wonder if this opens the door for our friends, the Lakers, or maybe even the Warriors, God forbid, to get into the big boy playoffs. Maybe Austin Reeves really is risen. Maybe that is the main takeaway from today after all. There is a door here. I think if you're looking at those playing teams right now, the sons do still have pretty good inside position just by nature, especially if they get two games, two cracks at it to make the

playoffs. I think they're in a pretty good spot. But as far as the Lakers and the Warriors, you have to look at this as unfortunately good news. No one wants to see a player go down injured, but there is an opportunity here for two teams that have not been able to get all the way to where they want to this season, just in terms of their execution. So whatever may be happening on a night to night basis with the Warriors or with the Lakers, it's almost more week to week. Like they have good stretches and some not so good stretches. But they're going to have a chance. They're going to have a real chance to get into the first round

and to try to make hay against what looks like it could be the wolves or the thunder at the top of the bracket instead of the nuggets, which also would be a great break for them. Cut to Adam Silver, just taking a swan dive into his vat of gold de blooms here, just because you get to see perhaps

LeBron James or Steph Curry over four games, at least, in a first round series. So, at the very is it creates a nice contrast between old and new because presumably if they do get into the playoffs lebron or stuff you're facing the thunder the wolves uh maybe the nuggets we'll see here but that'll be interesting but um all right why don't we uh move on to the docket today so the the stick here is we're going to go through the five worst teams in the eastern conference we're going to say one nice thing about each of them this one was particularly hard because i think we've waited a week

in a half maybe since the last one and things have gotten more dire. But then on top of that, we're also going to go through an off-season essential, off-season essential question for each of them, kind of like we do in the preseason power rankings. Any questions before we get in here? Well, it's also harder just because these teams are so much worse. It's hard to find silver linings when the teams are this bad, even relative to the worst teams in the West.

Yeah, we're back to the Eastern Conference territory here. Very tough. drags of the Eastern Conference. So, yeah, I echo Rob's sentiments in that regard. All right. Do we want to start from the top, I guess? You can call it that with Brooklyn. The only team of these five that isn't technically officially eliminated from playoff contention.

They did win the other night on Saturday. So there's that. And they're writing a three-game win streak. But Rob, what is your one nice thing you could say about the Nets? I think there's a lot of guys on the Nets who, if they were in more appropriate roles, you would really love on a winning team. And one of those guys who I'm just waiting to find the right situation is Dennis Smith, Jr., who has earned his way to a winner somewhere, to a contender somewhere,

one of the best defensive guards in the league, has played himself into a nice backup point guard type role in game and acumen and responsibility. I want him to play for a team like the Bucks or a team like the Celtics to come in and turn up the heat for a contender. he's going to be a free agent in the off season and he's a guy home just waiting for that kind of opportunity because he's shown that he has that in him and he's finally hitting threes at a respectable rate

which is an important part of that process too. I'm happy Dennis Smith has sort of worked his way back into being a legitimate NBA player. People will remember he was a high lottery pick in Dallas before Luca got in there. I was somebody who was really high on his upside Like the athletic ability just jumped off the page

and you thought he would be able to get it together as far as craft and skill-wise. And I think people who around him would say that, like, he kind of had a bit of an over-inflated sense of self and didn't take it quite as seriously as he should have. He thought he was just going to be able to walk into the NBA and be some important force. And it didn't happen.

And he was on the edges of China. you know, the Spanish League. Like, he was on the edges of that being the case for him. And the fact that he's gone from lottery pick to edge of the league to now fully back to being a respectable rotation kind of guy is a really cool story and I'm happy for that. I mean, and for me, what I would say about the Nets and sorry to all of these guys' families,

but they got so many tradable pieces, so many pieces on this team that could so easily be moved for valuable stuff. And, you know, when I look at the guys on their team, whether it be a McHale Bridges, who obviously would be, if they put a fire sale for him, they could get some beautiful returns for Bridges on his contract. The way that he fits literally every single NBA team in existence,

you know, that's just a valuable chip. If they ever decide to go another route, Doreen Phenny Smith, even a Dennis Schroeder, I think it's a movable guy. Cam Johnson now, since he's gotten paid, it's a little, it's a little trickier. We used to call that guy 3 and D. The D, not very much Ding.

No. Not these days anyway. But like they have pieces, you know, even Alani Walker during, like, these guys can be moved. And I think you're not going to be able to hit the jackpot the way the Thunder did for their rebuild, but they, you know, tear it down,

get rid of Paul George, and get a freaking MVP candidate in return. But they should be trying to do something like that. Take a chance on a young guy, get these old fogies out of here, let them be on contenders and stuff, and start all over, because this thing is over.

I think that probably is a nice segue to one of the essential questions I have down here whether or not they should start fresh, get rid of bridges, and just kind of take their medicine and rebuild this thing, or should they kind of just add, actually trade some of the draft picks they procured from the Sons and other teams? I think they have some Sixers picks. I think they have some Mavs picks and just add something and just be the best version of themselves. I would probably advocate for the teardown. And obviously the Rockets trade that was reported, that getting Jalen Green plus their own picks

would have looked pretty good right about now. But I would expect, Rob, that they're probably going to go the other way because they do have some role players where if they just, for instance, turn Ben Simmons's contract plus picks, maybe a young guy or two into someone,

let's just say, Tray Young, for like the sake of conversation, that's a fine team. And I wonder if they're at the point where they're looking at, like, it's either fine or I'm getting fired if I'm Sean Marks here. I guess in terms of the tear down,

what is the end game of that when you don't own your own draft destiny? What is the benefit of it? And that's why when I think about McHale Bridges, I'm wondering what exactly is the rush to trade someone like him? If there's a chance to move up and get demonstrably better right now,

I'm all for it. And if it's the kind of player who, to borrow your analogy was, the clarity that She helped give the thunder and a group of really good players and kind of gave them all a natural role. If you can get that kind of star on the door for McAil and Ben Simmons contract and picks or some combination

thereof, then great, let's do that. But otherwise, if we're just trading McHale Bridges to get worse, what was unique about that Houston potential offer, reported offer, was that it would give Brooklyn back its own draft destiny. That was the value of it as much as Jalen Green. And absent that, I don't really see any rush to trade a player like Bridges because you can play the long game and the long market with him because there will be contenders who come calling.

And you're just waiting for the right kind of disgruntled star or the right star who doesn't quite fit with another contending team in a way that Bridges might. This kind of brings me to my nice thing, which is, I'll be honest, I really reached for this one. It's the fact that Noah Clowney, the 21st pick in the draft, is actually playing right now, 12.6 minutes over the past five games. He played really well in the G League. I'll be honest, the NBA just resume right now isn't looking to Sterling. He's only played 15 games, averaging three points to rebounds. But I think this is a guy that a lot of people are high on,

we're high on coming into the draft. And now after getting him in house, I think he's the guy that I think could really make sense for a lot of different teams, just like long rangey athlete, 7-2 wingspan also could potentially shoot it. So maybe in like two years, I think this could be someone. And it brings me to my overall point here, which is like, the Nets have actually done really well mining from lower in the first round of the draft. The first version of this team that KD and Kyrie joined was kind of built by the drafting and developmental system, where it's Jared Allen, it's Nick's Clackston, it's Caris Lever. It's all those guys. And so you could say a lot of bad things about the Marx era for Brooklyn, like a lot of bad things at this point. But the one good thing that they actually have done better than other organizations is draft low.

turn these guys into something. And so, like, long term, I think just sticking to what they have makes sense for what Rob mentioned, but also because, like, if they could just add guys on the fly here, it's not that bad. It's not that bad. I do think that's an important point with the Nets, which is they have nailed the small stuff primarily throughout this era. Late first round picks, undrafted guys, developmental projects, if you want to go back a little

further to like the Kenny Atkinson era. And they've whiffed on the biggest existential and philosophical. elements of how you run an organization. And that's how you find yourself here without your own picks, struggling to find a way to get another star in the door, grasping at the clownies as like this is a bright spot in our season at this stage.

There's lots of guys you could look at in this roster and say, I like that player for a specific role. But in what universe in the next two seasons are the Nets going to be able to put them in that kind of role? Let the record show folks that Justin's bright spot for the Nets is that they're playing a guy that they drafted. First round pick is playing. Almost 13 minutes.

Not that he's killing it or looks like he's on the way to something. That he's on the floor at all is a positive sign for the Nets. We're really digging in the crates. Rough times. Incredible. Rough times down there on Atlantic Avenue. That also brings me to like my other tangential question to this is, will Sean Marks finally hire the right coach.

And it's been pretty bleak since Kenny Atkinson went away. I almost wonder, Rob, if like, should they just bring Kenny Atkinson back? Because I wonder if this team in particular is an Atkinson team. But someone like him who could like just develop, I think is probably what they need at this point. Yes. There are two teams that Kenny Atkinson will not be working for. The Brooklyn Nets and the Charlotte Hornets, I think you can just cross off the list at this point. The Hornets, another team he would be good for, though.

He would be good for them, but clearly he was not too interested in actually saying in that job in the week or so that he had it. But yes, I agree with your point. Those were the MJ days, though, right? They do have new ownership and there's reason for new optimism. So you, well, I guess you probably could rule it out. But I'm just saying, like, there's reasons to be a little bit more optimistic in Charlotte. Obviously, we'll get to that at some point. But the Nets, this just feels like so rudderless and just kicking around the same tires of just like, oh, let's see if these, let's see if a team of all role players could be a real NBA team.

That experiment, they tried it and it failed miserably. And, you know, I think the idea that they're going to use their quote-unquote assets to bring a star in around. I just don't see what planet that makes any sense. Adding Tray Young to this is like going to be like fire. Like that's, it's going to be. It's a sixth seed. It's a sixth seed. But hopefully like maybe they'll get some fans in the door.

In the, in the east it might be a 60. Okay. So on the broadcast on Saturday, they flash this stat, which I think really puts a bow on this whole conversation. Cam Thomas logged 20 straight games. of at least one assist. And I think they were being complimentary, but I have to say, I laughed.

I guffawed, even. They were trying to say something nice, but even we've been nicer than that. All right, let's move along here. The Toronto Raptor, so I have to say, this was probably the toughest one for me, just because it has been a complete catastrophe since Scotty Barnes has gone down.

They pulled the Band-Aid at the trade deadline. But since Barnes has gone down, it's just been a loss fest. And so the one thing I actually have going nice for this team is that they may have tanked their way so aggressively to keeping their own first round pick in this coming draft. They're on a 12-game losing streak at the time of this recording on Sunday morning, and one in 14 over the past 15. And then on what was it? I think it was Wednesday.

They lost by 44 points to the Knicks and played a guy named Javon Freeman Liberty, which is like if I had called Rob like Texan cowboy. I'm open to it for the record. A name so redundant we have never seen before in the NBA. But that's my nice thing. They might be able to keep this goddamn draft pick. Not to invalidate our premise here, but given that the Raptors are in a position where they're either going to have to convey

that pick this year or probably next year, is it even a good thing to keep it? Considering that the 2024 draft class is, you know, not thought of as very highly at the moment. Yeah. I mean, yeah, unless you think they're going to be demonstratively better next year, which I have a hard time believing, considering the direction that they're going in, right?

And let's face it, the players on the roster, Like, do we think they're going to Kelly Olinick and Gary Trent and junior their way into, like, respectability next year? Obviously, like, I'm being facetious. Scotty Barnes would be, like, would be spearheading, excuse me, any success that they have next year. But I don't look at this current roster and think to myself, oh, yeah, surefire, Easter conference, playoff contenders next year if things break right. I'm not seeing that. So yeah, maybe, I don't know, maybe next year would be the time to go full. Yo, let's let our young guys take the reins and see where we go from there.

Yeah, I don't think there's a lot to look at with this roster and say, oh, they're going to improve by leaps and bounds. It's more just the fact that playoff spots are here for the taking, right? The bar is pretty low to competence in the East right now. And so because the bottom of the conference or really the middle of the conference in that play-in bracket is, so bad and so porous. What's to keep the Raptors from being slightly better, slightly more competent, slightly healthier next season,

and making their way, especially because I will say, Justin, I didn't have a hard time picking a bright spot for this team, even though it's one that at the moment is mired in tragedy, which is like RJ Barrett and his family are going through a lot right now. But when he has played for the Raptors, I think he's been

a revelation. It's just the clarity in his game from moving to a new team and getting to try new things and being in a different kind of basketball circumstance, I feel like has really unlocked him. And so he should take whatever time he needs. He's just kind of getting back to the team right now after his brother's passing. But when he has played for the Toronto Raptors, he has been really, really good. Yeah, both him and quickly have been pretty good since that trade. And so if you're looking as an optimist in terms of the rebuild, like there's definitely things to move forward with where you don't

have to wait because Scotty Barnes' timeline is so advanced here. But I think you're right. I think they're just good enough that they can't just be in the one to six range going forward. And so maybe this is the year to bank a draft pick on the other hand in the past eight games, 18 games. So this is post-Iacom trade pre-Barns injury, six and 12, 24th on offense, 28th on defense, 28th net. So it's really Barnes and we'll see. Yeah. Yeah. To me is my actual nice thing to say about them. And, you know, I've been somebody who's shown some Scotty Barnes skepticism here and there in the past.

But I just saw him just a little bit. But I will say, like, Scotty Barnes is a guy. And that's undeniable at this point. It's not just that he was validated with an all-star selection, which I think was well deserved. It's just he's proven over the course of this year that last year might have seemed like he took a step backwards from his rookie campaign, but he's shown the requisite improvements in his shooting.

He's proven that he is bankable. He's a guy. And that's more than a lot of teams he say, you know, that are in their position anyway. And so to me, that's the brightest spot. It's not, well, you know, because I think about the position that the Knicks fans were with RJ, where like all this time, they're waiting for him to become a guy.

And it never quite materialized that way, especially when you consider his draft pedigree. And so for Scotty Barnes to, you know, ultimately prove himself in that way, I think it's a big deal. And Raptis fans can definitely hang their hat on that pillar right now, you know. And we'll see what the, you know, the best GM in basketball, the wizard, the genius, Masay Yu-Jiri, do with the rest of the team.

I'm just echoing the sentiment to the rest of my media brethren, Rob. That's all I'm doing here. Every week on group chat, Waz out here dispelling myths, tearing down the great man theory, just poking holes, you know,

and everyone's reputation. And I appreciate it. I'm here for the fact check. I just want to have the discussion. That's all. Just ask some questions. Well, this kind of gets us to the essential question we have,

which is how quick of a turnaround are we in for in Toronto. on the one hand Barnes does look legit and they do kind of have what I believe will be the core of the team going forward. Clearly they need an upgrade a little bit more juice there, but their trade deadline would suggest to me, in addition to getting rid of Bar, excuse me, Seacum and OG that like they kind of know who they'll have next year because they brought in Kelly Olinick, O'Shea Abaji, almost got that name right. We'll see. Bruce Brown is on this team option. I assume they'll bring him back, if only to trade him later.

Quickly is a restricted free agent. Gary Trent Jr. is an unrestricted free agent. So it's like they can have cap space on the one hand, but what have we seen cap space do in the NBA? And on the other hand, it seems like they've already kind of filled a lot of the dollary slots, the dollar slots that we would expect them to with some of the guys that they already traded for.

Yeah, it's going to be more or less this with some veteran additions around the edges. And that's where the Bruce Brown contract, track, just such a huge deal for them. He, when he has played, has not looked very good as a Toronto Raptor just has not been the best version of himself. Not a great showing. Hasn't been a great season for Bruce Brown overall, but especially not as a Toronto Raptor.

And so his time there is extremely limited. It's just a matter of what team that's trying to make the playoffs or trying to be competitive has something that can interest the Raptors at this point. How can that pot be sweetened? Because there will be suitors. And I think the Raptors can kind of play those against each other. and hopefully get a pretty solid rotation player out of whatever that trade ends up being.

And if they can do that, if they can get one more reliable guy, I don't see a reason why they can't be a play-in team. A lot of ski-mas memes related to Bruce Brown on Raptors' Twitter this season. Just going to say that. Yeah, I could definitely see them in the play-in mix as soon as next year.

I don't know about the next level beyond that. Like long term, two, three years from now, I think it's going to take another Scotty Barnes level of guy in order for them to vault into any thing past just interesting. Well, or Scotty Barnes vaulting into the next tier of star from, you know, fill in All-Star into more of a lock at the top of the league hierarchy. And if he can do that, the thing that, you know, for example,

again, like Shegildjus Alexander has done, the thing that other young stars around the league are doing, if he can make that kind of leap, that puts the Raptors in a very different place where then all of a sudden, okay, RJ as a second score, makes a lot of sense, okay, quickly as a point guard

who doesn't have to do so much individual creation, that really works for us because Scotty has been playing so effectively. So they need that kind of star to offer clarity for the rest of this group. And Barnes has the potential to be that, whether he can be and will be, and especially in a couple of years,

that's a tough ask. Yeah, I want to get into that draft class and where we find Scotty Barnes, in the hierarchy of the 2021 first rounders later, because we're going to talk about Kate, I assume, with Detroit. So why don't we move on to the Charlotte Hornets? My one nice thing is an essential question as well. So I doubled up here, which is,

could the Hornets be this year's rockets next year? And I think a lot of it is contingent upon lamello ball, but I'm feeling pretty good about the core, in air quotes, core of Lamello, Brandon Miller, Miles Bridges. Like, there's so much you could do around there. And I do think that the other pieces you need around there are a little bit more getable. You need a big, like a guy who could play consistent minutes, which they haven't been able to find at this point.

And then in the draft, they're presumably going to get, what, a top four pick? You can find another, like, wing type of guy, it seems like in this draft. If anything, I think this draft is good for a team like this because you don't need superstars, you just need like probably a talented wing guy who's more of a role player to play around your existing stars. Now, La Mello has to be held. Let me say that like five more

times. That is a big key to this. But like I'm feeling pretty bullish. Pretty good about this team. So this is a bold stance. This is a very bold stance. Especially when I would say to some extent, we've already seen what phase two

of Hornets basketball looks like because they already kind of try with Miles and Lamello and Gordon Hayward and Tara Rozier and Mason. Like they've already tried to surround these young guys with veterans strategy. And it's been okay. Let me clarify here. I actually think they did all of their offseason work at the deadline. I think quietly what we've seen is that like, yeah, it was to get off Washington and get some assets in there.

But they filled out their bench with guys with just like solid guys, Grant Williams, Murchitz, etc. We talked about this a million times surprisingly enough. We've talked about the Hornets bench. Yeah. But it's less about them doing a Fredman Bleet style move and more just like taking a leap in the standings. That's more what I'm saying. Any leap they take is predicated on Lamello Ball's ankles.

And that's a dicey bet to make right now. Long string of ankle injuries played 58 games over the last two seasons. If Lamello can stay healthy, this team can be very competent, pretty successful ultimately. especially, like, I would say for me, I don't even want to get too cute with it, the bright spot, the say something nice about the Hornets, like Brandon Miller is a real deal player. He's been really good.

And the way he's been good transcends the junk basketball of late season lottery teams. He looks like a guy who can play off the ball successfully, who has been like ambitious in the right ways and in the right moments and also plays defense, like really gets into guys. He's everything that I want him to be. And so if he is that player and Lamello is healthy, Then I agree with you. Like the hornets can be good.

Will Lamello be healthy? I'm as big a Lamello ball believer as anyone in terms of his game and his potential and his creativity. It's just so hard to know if he's going to be on the court. Yeah, I just want to talk to bright spot. To me, in theory, their core, as Justin just put it, in terms of bridges, Lamello and Miller, what I like most is that they can be complimentary of one another. It's not like this duplicative overlap kind of thing. Like these guys can play 40 minutes a night when it matters together

and they will work well in tandem, you know, with Lamello being able to, his ability to shoot it, which allows those other two guys to be on the ball whenever they can. Bridges being the guy that attacks the paint. You know, like they have complementary skills in terms of like being able to be. able to stretch out a defense in different ways in the most idealized version of themselves. And I think Brandon Miller, my guy, you know, to Rob's point about March basketball, why is it so often so porous? Just a bunch of guys get shut down, sometimes legitimately, sometimes for tanking reasons, you know, you see these wacky rotations. And there's this rule of thumb where, like,

in the NBA, somebody has to score, right? I call it the Michael Carter Williams rule, where that dude once led an NBA team in scoring for a season, which is like the ultimate indicator of somebody has to score, right? But that's not what Brandon Miller's doing. He's not just going out there

and getting junk buckets and chucking up shots and not playing within, you know, a concept of an offense that has a logic to it. Like, this guy is a, a winning player. He plays a winning style. And March basketball has not put him into these nasty habits of chasing empty calories and empty stats. This dude is a hooper. Right. And so that's really exciting. You know, I've been high on Brandon Mill, like I said, since I did a two-game scout and report on him in the SEC tournament last year. And it's just proven, man, his size, his, is just

diversity of skill set. I think he could play up and down position. A lot of people think he's more of a three, two. I think in certain times he can play a four, especially when he gets older and bigger. I think he can place some four for this team, right? Like, I don't, look, the Paul George comparisons, we need to chill a little bit on that, maybe.

But I'm really excited by what he could do. And if he could take elite next year, you know, that would butchers Justin's point about this team being serious. And the Houston Rockets thing to me is that the Rockets are not an easy out. They're not a guaranteed W. Like when you see, you know, let's face it, Charlotte or the Wizards on your schedule these days, it's not like, oh, okay, that's going to be a win for whatever respectable team is playing them. So Charlotte, I think, could be that type of team where it's like, no, this is a real team.

You're going to have to play well to beat them whenever you do every single night next season. that's the level they really need to get to because even when the Hornets have been good in the lamello ball era, I don't think any opponents are going into Charlotte and saying, oh, we hate playing against this team. Like, it was a running guy style. It was an offense first operation.

Lots of teams have and did, and especially have this season. But they need to be a team who executes at a high level, and that can be offensively or defensively, but puts a lot of pressure on you that isn't just playing fast and loose, that isn't just feeding into, the frenzy of transition to play,

but has an order to them, like the Rockets do. The Rockets, if you do not come in and take that team seriously, they will bust your ass. And right now, Jalen Green will bust your ass,

but most importantly, they've been good enough on defense to make all of that happen and all of that work. Can Charlie get to that level? And Brandon Miller can be a good defender. Bridges clearly can be a good defender, but they need backline help.

They need a sturdier backline and rotation to make all that work. Because Lamello, if we're all being honest, is going to gamble pretty, pretty inveterately out there. So you're going to need some support and rotation. Invederately?

Is that the SAT word for the day? You're just embarrassing yourself. This is not even a tough word. But look, go off if you have to. Listen, we didn't all go to fancy colleges in Texas, the hotbed of liberal education. Okay? Yeah, the Texas public school system,

notorious for its high full. education. We only breed champions out here on the East Coast. Let me tell you. All right. All right. Well, maybe you should have gone to some kind of boarding school up there. Hey, man. Listen, Rob talks about Texas not being that serious at public school. They struck down affirmative action based on some chick not being able to get into y'all's school. So, I mean, clearly people want to go. I don't want to be grouped on that one. Don't put me in that. Well, speaking of maybe looking at the March Madness tournament

and just basing everything off of two games, I have to say, I don't know if you guys have seen Donovan Klingin, our guy at Yukon, just dominating like young shack out there. The Yukon propaganda. We couldn't go an episode without it. It's a, man, it's unbelievable. They are just mowing teams down. It is crazy.

These days in a way that I've literally never seen before. But I do think, like, Klingin, he's being talked about as a top five pick. That probably speaks more to the lack of a top end talent in this year's draft class. But like, you look mighty fine if like just catching lobs from a lamell. He moves really well on the perimeter for a guy his size. So he's going to be better than Walker Kessler?

He might be. Okay. Well, there's something to get excited about them. Fandals putting the ball in your court for the rest of the NBA season because right now new customers get $200 in bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. That's $200 if your bet wins. So on Sunday, I'm looking at this game at home for the Spurs.

They're hosting the Warriors. And they're getting eight and a half points. I don't know if the bookmakers have seen Vector Webanyama at this point, the 40-20 game against the Knicks. It's making a really strong push for defensive player of the year. And even if they don't have him in this game, he does tend to sit surprisingly a little bit. I have seen the Spurs play really well without him. So give me eight and a half, give me the spurs at home, and bet on the NBA with a wide range of bet types, including quick bets, live same game parlays, player props, and more. And the weight is over, North Carolina. Fandul is officially live in the Tar Heel State.

So visit fandul.com slash ringer NBA and make your first bet a layup. Fandul, official sportsbook partner of the NBA. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1,800 gambler, or visit the ringer.com slash RG, first online real. money wager only $10 first deposit required bonus issued as non-letrable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt see terms at sportsbook.fandual.com. All right. Let's move along. Washington Wizards here.

Who wants to raise their hand to go first for this one? I will go first because I think I and maybe we owe Denny Avdia a bit of an apology. He's at a really solid season for that. I would say the most like, unflinchingly unblemished, solid thing that has happened in Wizard's basketball this season. For a team that does not have much of a natural order to it, he's made himself a good NBA role player. And given where he started going into this season, I think that's a pretty meaningful and a pretty big development for his career. I also had him. How do you not? Denny Obtia is a real guy. He's proven himself this season. He's an NBA rotational guy.

They were points in his career where that was in question where I was like, yo, is this another Jan Vesley situation in Washington happening? So it's dope that he's proven himself in that way. He's clearly a useful guy. And, you know, I know it feels like we're damning with faith praise, but this is the worst team in the NBA with a freaking bullet. I'm sorry, this is not a lot of things to recommend.

I would just say, it's nice that they own their draft picks. That's nice. They own their draft future. because Lord knows they're going to need it. And that's all I got for the Wizards because it's just tough, man. It's nice that they're staying in D.C. You know, it's annoying that they got public money to do so,

that we're using tax dollars to fund the endeavors of these rich bastards. That's quite annoying. But, you know, it's nice that the team will stay in D.C. They're going to renovate the, what does it call these days? It's not the MCI Senate. anymore. What is it these days? The Verizon, yeah. The Verizon Center. Shout to Verizon.

Yeah, that's all I got for the Wizards, y'all. New stadium. While we're entering into some... Traffic equity. Actually, correction, it's the Capital One Arena currently. Okay. Our mistake. There we go.

I'm a Capital One customer. That's right. Sabre card, baby. All day. Sure. While we're entering into some potentially baseless speculation on the Wizards Arena deal, Do you think all that was just a negotiation tactic to extort a little more public funds? I couldn't decide whether it was a good faith effort to move the team to Virginia or if it was just like, we really might, we really might do it. Rob, how do you extort the public for a team that sucked for literally 50 years?

Wow. 50 years. I don't know what to tell you. How is that like, man, Lord have mercy. Yeah. I can't tell. It definitely worked out that way, but I feel like all of these owners

would secretly love to move to the suburbs. So probably closer to their, like, Virginia mansions in this case. So it wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to. I will say, as someone who once had the Patriots just ripped from us because the crafts used Hartford to leverage Massachusetts in order to get Foxborough built, I don't take these things lightly. And so for the good people of Virginia, I stand with you, my brothers and my sisters.

Yeah, that sounds really hard for you, Justin. It was tough upbringing. We lost the whalers. We didn't get the Patriots. This is why I'm here talking to you, like, about all the Donovan clinging tape that I'm crying. Yeah. Yeah. I also had Dennyabia here.

He got some shine from Zach Lowe in his recent column. So I think the secret is out. He's always been a tough guy. Always been a very good defender. the shot has just been falling these days. Like his ability to create off the dribble is really good. And like, I'll be honest, I think he might be their best player.

I know we say Kuzma and like Kuzma obviously gets a lot of added attention, but it just feels like even in these late season games, Obdi is just making the right plays in the way that Kuzma just doesn't seem to be bothered to. It just isn't plugged in at all and hasn't been for about a month. And it's nice to see a guy like Obd. I think Obdia could fit in a lot of good winning situations. Like you put him as like a big, next to Anthony Davis, for instance.

And if that shot is falling, I think he'd look good. I think you look good. And like the Kings, for instance, if we're looking for a four to replace Harrison Barnes eventually. So I really like him. Yeah, there's a differentiation between who is the best NBA player on the Wizards roster, which I would say is Kyle Kuzma and who has actually played the best for the Wizards this season. And I think that is Denny Obdia. And it is, yes, the shot is falling, although it's abandoned him a bit lately.

But overall for the season, still shooting a strong percentage. the defense, as you said, has largely been there throughout his career. And he has like a nice floor game where he can help distribute. He can help facilitate. He can fit into a nice supporting role in a lot of different styles of offense. And if anything, I think he's a great case study on why if you have a 21, 22 year old player who hasn't been super impressive yet, but has good feel, you don't give up on those players. You hope that they can break in the one or two skills, the swing skills they need to really be successful.

But you bet on the feel. You bet on the intelligence. You bet on their ability to read the floor. And Avdia can do that. So that brings me to the complete opposite player in that regard, which is Jordan Poole. And my question here... Can't read the floor. Can't read the damn thing, Jordan Poole. Can't read a clip forward with the play breakdown there.

Apparently, I don't know if you've seen that clip where he was confused by a play drawn up. My question here was, is what do you do with Jordan Poole? And I have four options for you. and if you have more options, please throw them in here. Option A is keep starting him next season. B would be to bring him off the bench. C would be to pay somebody else to just take him. You'd probably have to give up assets in that regard.

And D would be Nancy Kerrigan him with a crowbar reap the insurance money. I don't think our lawyers will allow us to talk about hypothetically, Nancy Kerrigating somebody with a crowbar. Allegedly, potentially. Theoretically. just whack them in the possibilities out here. Are you talking about for the rest of the year

or just generally speaking? Next season, because he has three years left on his deal. And $96 million. I feel like you just have to bank on the personal and professional pride of the guy that got him to be an NBA player in the first place kicking in and all of this embarrassment

and how like just completely cooked his reputation is. And like, hopefully, like I said, that personal professional pride kicks in and he's just better next year. Like, you just have to hope that this guy isn't a complete and total washout. I have to believe that he's not. It just seems insane that he's actually this bad forever and ever. Like, to me, I think you keep some optimism about it.

And, you know, depends on who you draft, what position. Obviously, you don't want to have toxicity. around your team and all of these losing habits and stuff like that. But man, we're talking about a guy who helped a team when the freaking finals not too long ago. I feel like you should be optimistic that he can be better than what he's shown, which is just absolutely garbage so far. I do think he can be better than what he's shown. Yes.

We're clear in the garbage in the best case scenario here. I still think the best option is option B bringing him off the bench. I think Jordan Poole is the kind of player where if you do not control his minutes and his role, he will fill the space he is given. And he will get shots up and he will take over your offense. If you let him roll for 30 to 35 minutes a night, I think at that point you're tipping from, you know, trying to resuscitate his trade value into being actively destructive of the developmental process for everybody else.

And so the more you can kind of put him into a sort of box and contains space of, this is Jordan pool time and this is not Jordan pool time, I think the better off you're going to be for the Bullaw Cula Bollies, for whoever Washington brings in through the draft this season, you want to make space for those guys. And Jordan Poole is kind of antithetical to that sort of space. Yeah, I agree B is probably the best route here, especially if you draft a guy who needs on-ball reps

is more of like a guy like pool that you just want to see the floor to. I also think like one, you up his trade value, so you could get to see eventually. if you're just letting him score against second units. That's it that always helps. And also it just seems like he's seen the most comfortable. So if you're thinking about the best usage of pool, I do think this is probably his career path.

And while the value is dirt low, like there's probably, it hasn't been a worse time to get into the Jordan pool business. Like his arc, at the very least has, it's reminiscent of guys we've seen in the past before where it's kind of like bonehead score first guy, just empty calories points.

It's like people made something of Jordan Clarkson, for instance. Now, Jordan Clarkson having one of the worst seasons of his career, probably one of the worst shooters in basketball this season statistically. So it does kind of come and go here. But like, if he ends up rehabbing his value and becoming that type of player, I don't think that's completely out of the realm of possibility at this point. I think it's telling, though, that we talk about Jordan Clarkson all the time, this season, last season, seemingly every season, around the trade deadline,

as a guy who could potentially be in, oh, wouldn't this be a great score off the bench for these teams that are trying to win this season? And no one ever really swings for it and no one ever pulls the trigger on it. Just this style of player, they have such defined limitations. And even George Bullitt is absolute best

was helping to lift up a team that was already wildly successful. A system and a superstar and a whole structure that already worked and had proven chemistry. And he was kind of the accessory on the side of it who went off and could play off of those things. but if you're a team that's trying to build something,

Dornpool is just such a tough sell right now. Yeah. No one needs a Cam Thomas, though, until you need to win like three more games in the middle of March. So people do reach for these type of players all the time. I guess. Pool is definitely a different class where like some of the decisions he makes are just unique unto themselves.

Also, fifth worst effective field goal percentage. fourth worst field goal percentage. So I'm shocked at that high. Yeah, I was expecting him to be the worst, but unfortunately, Jordan Clarkson, beating him out this season. But I do think you talked about, you know, who they're going to bring in through the draft

and whether that player needs on-ball reps to be successful or to develop effectively. That could be the kind of option that gives you the political cover to move Jordan Poole to the bench full-time. He's been starting lately again. So in order to displace him, you might need to bring someone in

who you're saying, This guy is the future of our team. You know, look at this exciting young prospect. Like, we want to give him a chance with the starting lineup. And Jordan Poole, proven score off the bench. I'm going to say proven in heavy air quotes. You can be that guy for us. Like you can help be a, again, heavy air quotes, good veteran on this team and hope for the best.

But you might need that kind of excuse. I think it's tough if you're just plugging in somebody you bring in for the minimum or for, you know, for very little money or with very little reputation in the off season to unseat a player like Jordan Poole. that can be a tougher sell. All right. Let's finish up here with the Detroit Pistons, who I have to say, I agree with Waz when I don't think they're the worst team in the league. I think by net rating, it's actually the Hornets, surprisingly enough, just because some of these games, they just completely topple over and lose by 40.

But I have down as my one nice thing that this Godforsaken season is almost over. and the worst way you should think your one nice thing is the sweet merciful release of death that's what it is exactly all right so another nice thing is that at this point since they have I believe 13 wins they could finish no worse than tied for ninth

in the worst winning percentage of all time that's something it's not as bad as it seems like it might have been in December congrats I will say the counter to that is so among their things 13 wins. Most of them have come against the teams on this list. So it's three against Charlotte, two against Toronto, two against Washington, one against Brooklyn. So back of the envelope,

math says that's eight of 13 wins have come against these teams. Two more against the Chicago Bulls. While we're coming off the Jordan Pool conversation, by the way, we're just days removed from Jordan Pool going three for 15 with five turnovers against these Detroit Pistons. World beaters that they are. Yeah. But we're almost near the end. And I have to say long term, as we talked about in the no power rankings, I think they have a better future than the Wizards. Damning with faint praise, but there's something. Yeah. Well, they have Cade Cunningham. Yes. Exactly. They've got a young piece who, look, man, in the early stretches in November and December,

where they're losing all of these games and Cade, you know, he can't make a shot. And the turnover is appalling up. And, you know, it's people calling him a big old bus and group chats that I'm in. It was looking dark. And then, you know, these last two months, two and a half months even, he's been playing phenomenally. And I think he's shown, even with this awful context

that he's been saddled with by his GM, even with some of the questionable rotation decisions of his coach who has a weird vendetta against New York City that I can't understand. He's dissing the Knicks and everything, whatever chance he can get. Cade has emerged from the ashes of this Godforsaken season and shown that he is a legitimate number one pick guy. he's a legitimate franchise cornerstone or can be one of the cornerstones plural. And that is a beautiful thing to see in the ways, and by the way, in the ways that we thought that he could, you know, shouldering a heavy burden of usage, basically doing all the offensive curation because he's the only guy to pass the ball on this team.

and the shot has come around. He's just getting better and better and better. And that's been just a beautiful revelation. I never let go on my cage stock. I always believe that in like an actual modern NBA offensive context, this guy would be money. And even like just marginally improving the spacing around him, marginally improving, you know, the shooting has lifted his game up.

And so that's what I will say is a very nice thing. Now, Troy Weaver, do I think he'll take enough time off from offering smoke the fans to put a team that makes sense together? Time will tell. Monty Williams, you know what I'll say about his outbursts? late in the season, at least he's still invested, which is like, I know, I get it. He's getting paid $80 freaking million to be invested.

He should be. But he's still invested, and I think he's still a good coach. And so those are positive things. Yeah, I think it's fair to look at the overall shape of the team. And the acquisitions they've made, some of the draft picks that they've made, it's like, does this work? Does this fit? Does this make sense?

We do it all the time in talking about the Piston Struggles. But if you want to zoom all the way in, considering all of those weird moves and the weird chain of moves sometimes, trading for Simonee Fontecchio at the deadline, I think has been definitely a good thing for them. And it's coincided with the spacing you're talking about. Well, it's like the pairing of Cade with literally one guy who can shoot. And in this case, it's Fontechio, but honestly, it could be just another guy who can shoot, has really paid dividends. And so whether that's you're going to pay money and restricted for agency to keep Fontechio around, which honestly, I think they should. should do. But even if you want to look at other shooters, other types of shooters, just people who can move and relocate and play dynamically, those are the kinds of guys that have allowed Cade.

I don't think Cade has evolved really in his game in any way. He's just delivered because he's had the space to deliver. And so the more guys you can get around him that allow him to do that, the better off you're going to be. And Simone Fontechio, improbably, big tech is one step in that direction. Let's go, baby. He's good. I would like to remind you guys at the trade deadline that nobody was standing up for your Detroit Pistons. It's true. There was a voice in the forest just calling out saying big tech could be good.

Three-point shooting around King Cunningham. The dream of Joe Harris lives in Simone Fontechio clearly. Yes. But I think you're right. Now, did the Detroit Pistons? play him too much as a starter, and now they actually have to pay him more in the offseason, which they probably could have avoided, yes.

But we hear our pro-labor. Strictly-free agency, like, they can artificially depress his market, please. But I agree. You have seen the difference. And just, God forbid, getting a shooter in that situation just makes a world of difference to a guy like Kate, as we talked about time and time again. He's going to be the setup guy.

He is manning the orchestra. He is not the guy playing the best. soon. And so I'm not surprised there and actually kind of brings us to our question, which is, would you give Cade full max extension this off season? Because here we are again and already having to pay these guys that just got drafted before the season starts in 2020 for 2025. On the one, it actually becomes more of like a political, just like personal decision. Because on the one hand, he probably doesn't deserve this. But we see time and time again, guys getting these contracts.

Did Le Mello Ball deserve it? That's the prime example. Exactly. But he had made an all-star team at the very least. Anthony Edwards on a different trajectory. Why would we bring our hands over this? Yes, give him the money. Next question. It's not even close.

It's not even close. Here's the thing. He's not going to make all NBA or win MVP or win defensive player of the year. So we're talking about the 25% max. Are we really fretting over giving Kate Cunningham like Desmond? Bain money? Oh, yes, because you're a small market when you pay Desmond Bain, it makes a difference. I think the problem, I think, so here's the, here's the split here. It's like, on the one hand,

has he shown that he's deserving of Max? I think he's had like a couple good months. I would like to see a full season of this because as was was saying, like even Lamelle had made the all-star team, some of the other guys you've mentioned have actually proven more than Cade has. On the other hand, if you don't give him a max, you're probably pissing him off. So then we get to this point next or maybe another team throws a four-year deal at him, then you have one fewer year with him. And then it just becomes more of an issue there. So, like, I agree from like a business standpoint, yes.

On the other hand, has he earned it? No. But see, I don't see how those things are connected. Because it's not about, quote, unquote, earning it. It's what a team, if they thought Cade Cunningham would be available in restrictive free agent, make sure they were in position to sign him for the four-year max. Absolutely.

This is a no-brainer when you consider his age, his skill set, the position he plays, 100 percent teams would be like, yeah, I'll sign up for that. Bring him in. Absolutely. And even beyond that, what else is Detroit banking on? Like, and look, let me just make a confession here, full confession. Even though there's some of the first games that come on, I'm not super. locked into the Pistons at this point in the season.

Do you guys think Jaden Ivy? Do you guys think Jaden Ivy? Because you guys might be, I don't know. Do you think Jaden Ivy and Thompson have shown this like skill set that like, no, they can be the franchise players and cornerstone of the Pistons? And then Cade could just walk or we could just sign and trade him. Like what is the logic of not paying him? because we know other people will.

Yeah, yeah. I think you're dancing around the heart of the question, which really is, has he earned that level? Is he that caliber of player versus, like, he will get it because of just all of the business aspects that you're mentioned. DeAndre Aitin, got a freaking offer.

Yeah. Well, here's the thing, though. Well, here's the thing with restricted free agents. Like, you typically have to wait a ton. Like, teams don't line up to give restricted free agents. he offers because it ties them up in order to do other things because the teams are just going to match them. So there is like a very deep cut business like conversation to have here. But I think the bigger thing is whether or not he is that guy. I just don't think Earn has anything

to do with it. You're good enough. You're promising enough. You have incredible talent. You, you as a franchise are the Detroit Pistons. You're focusing more on the is Kade that guy is the question. Yes. I think he's close. I think he's close enough to that guy and has that talent where me, it's not much of a question. And the other thing we're kind of dancing around here and not really acknowledging is if you're a young team and if you're at near the bottom of the league and payroll, a couple extra million dollars a year for Cade Cunningham is just not a meaningful difference. And so if you risk alienating a very talented player over pennies by NBA standards, I think that's a fool's errand. I think that's a bad way to do business, even if you don't think

Cade is worth the quote-unquote max. I'm fine with the 25% of the cap for a player like Cade Cunningham. If you're a team with nothing else going on, I don't know why you would balk at that. Well, that kind of brings me to the second part of this question, which is now that Jalen Green looks pretty enticing, looking back on the 2021 draft, I got to say, a lot of interesting guys. And interesting in a way that you don't typically see in most drafts where it's like you have the one guy. And there's like a couple guys that kind of come up underneath them. Like Edwards being the number one pick of that draft and Halliburton coming up. is kind of typical what you see. You see another guy popping out of nowhere,

but like Lamele Ball, obviously, would be in that conversation. It just seems like they're very deep in what could be, like, number one or number two options. So these are just the first round guys that got drafted in 2021. Cade Cunningham, Jalen Green,

Evan Mobley, Scotty Barnes, Franz Wagner, Jonathan Cominga, Alpern-Shengung, Jalen Johnson, Jalen Suggs. I didn't hear a damn good draft. Nights' name in that list, Justin. He was not in there. One of the very few Yukon products that didn't make it, unfortunately. And yet the Hornets, here they are, new rocket.

Here they are. But outside of that, pretty damn good draft class. Yeah. Is it? I think so. Hell yeah. It's very, there's a lot of talent there. But are any, like all the players you mentioned, like we're a couple years in now.

Are you eyeing any of those guys and saying like, that's a Hall of Fame track that that player is on. Like, are there like future legends in this? I think when we think about highly touted draft classes, you know, you think about 2003, for example. Like, you think about 1984. Like, there's these huge moments with all-time prospects coming into the draft. This doesn't have that, but in terms of the next level down of talent is super deep in guys who could either be pretty good first options on their teams or, you know, reliable ones for playoff teams, or damn good second options.

And it may be deeper in that group than a lot of the other recent draft classes are. So here's how I think about it. You can be one of two rookie extension guys, or three rookie extension guys. You can be no-brainer, signing this on the first day, obviously going to give you as much as you can type of guy. you can be R.J. Barrett, where there's a negotiation as to how much money you're going to get on your rookie extension. Or you could be James Wiseman where people like, are we picking up this before for your?

I'm sure this is like $15 million. Okay. And I look at this list and I'm like, Cade's going to get paid. No brainer. Mobley, no brainer. Scotty Barnes, no brainer. Franz Wagner, no brainer.

Shengu, no brainer. Jalen Johnson. probably no brainer like damn you know like RJ was the third pick in the draft and he was a negotiation guy yeah you know like all of these no brainer guys like goddamn that's a pretty good draft right there yeah I agree probably doesn't have the absolute high end but at that point it comes down to a player versus a class like they don't have an anthony davis in this class but it's deep and just like all-star level guys I could see all of these guys maybe not Suggs. And we'll see about Shen Gung now that green has kind of come about. But like,

I can see all these guys making an All Star at a certain point. Yes. And in that way, it is very talented. Very good. And I think Cade is just impressive enough to be a great prospect in all the ways that we've explained, but also just leaving the door open enough as a number one overall pick for us to have debates about who the best player is in this draft class for years and years to come. And the one thing about Cade that we haven't mentioned, if you're talking about his future, if you're talking about his contract, his extension, another guy who just has not been able to stay healthy. And if you're going to invest tons of money in a Mac style extension for him, that's one area where I would not be surprised if the Pistons try to negotiate is some conditional aspects of it,

some insurance in case of injury. I could see there being a negotiation as far as you get max money, but there are these certain protections based on games played or something like that. Well, since you brought up the conversation, who goes one? I think it's still Cade. I think I'm still a Cade guy. I was just about to say that. I'm still Cade. I don't even.

And here's why. Because Cade is, he's got a combination of size, skill, the shooting has finally come around and play, like all of that, nobody else on this list possesses.

And I think the person that comes even closest is kind of shangoon. Yeah. Like, this one-on-one-on-one-one- and passing combined. It's like, who else has that? You know, like, who would be your second pick? Or are you even the Cade guy number one?

Very, you're like, because you sounded disrespectful on Cade, all podcasts. I take money out of his pocket. I know. Sorry to the Cunningham estate. I think that there's no guy really that could clear-cut vault over him. it's all kind of on the same

level here. And so, like, I might put Barnes, too. But, man, Jalen Green's looking really good right now. So, it's funny what a month in March can do for you. Another guy I never gave up on. Or, that's a lie. I kind of slightly gave up on, but I still

held out hope. I don't have I don't have Shangoon near this tier. I know that, like, it might be recency bias, but I do wonder if Green is starting to rise almost as a result of Shangun not being in there. I wonder like where else could Shen Gung go and still have the same sort of effect? There's probably be teams lined enough for him.

But like I think there would be more teams lining up for Green at this point. No, like just being a guy who can dominate his individual matchup on a night to night base, like that's kind of freaking crazy, you know, that he can score efficiently against a one-on-one coverage on a night-to-night basis at that position. and has shown that he's not a complete sieve on defense, which is beautiful to see, combined with his basketball IQ, I'm like, damn, man, I don't know. Like, you know, Franz Wagner, again,

there's no question that he's going to get paid, but I think there's kind of one note to what he's doing on offense. He's going to attack, and I love his mentality of attacking, but, like, you're not going to ask him to run several picking rolls and run offense through him and, you know, build an ecosystem around what, Rons Wagner's doing.

You know, Evan Mowgli, we know what his limitations are on offense. Even if he is still all-world, all-N-B-A-level defender, you know, Jalen Johnson has shown some flashes. I noticed some people that would be like, fuck that. Jalen Johnson might be my number two, just based off the potential alone, you know. But man, Schengu might have to be my number two pick. Like, goddamn. Wow.

In terms of the guys on this list who can be the centerpiece, as you're saying, of an offense, the focus and the structure of an offense that could be a playoff level team. Shangoon is one of a very select group who could do that. Maybe Cade under best case circumstances right now, like surrounded by veterans, maybe he could be that guy right now. But Mobley, Jalen Green has done a good job of taking that and running with it. And I think over a longer sample, maybe we'll get a sense of whether he can be that guy too. But look, ideally Houston doesn't have to pick and choose.

If they can counterbalance Shangun and Green with each other and against each other in terms of their styles of play in some ways. That could be a really great formula for them long term. We're not ready for this conversation because, like you said, we haven't seen Green at this level playing with Shengoon, but I do wonder if part of the reason Green is starting to thrive. And even to a certain extent, Jabari Smith and whatnot, is these guys are playing with more space than they've ever had before.

And so I'm not necessarily saying that Shengoon is bad, per se. He's proven that he is an all-star level type of player or maybe on the fringes of that. But I wonder if like if shangoon's your best player, do we top out, does green in space with all these other guys maximize to their potential take you to another level? Is your ceiling all of a sudden higher? Did you say who your number two would be, Rob? I honestly don't know right now. I like I think I'd be, I would probably go Scotty Barnes at two. Yeah.

Just because I think that leaves kind of the most, the widest range of possibilities for your team. Like his versatility I value in ways that. you're right. Like, Shangoon kind of locks you into a certain style. It locks you into a certain fate. Barnes doesn't really do any of that in a way that I think is really exciting for the Raptor's future. All right.

Why don't we wrap it there then? Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Tucker Tash June. We'll be back on Wednesday. We'll see you then. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fanduel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star

Casino LLC. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit Fanduel.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and Vermont. Call 1-800 next step or text next step to 53342 in Arizona. 1-888-889-7-7-7 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. 1-800-9 with it in Indiana, 1-800-522-470 or visit KSgamblinghelp.com in Kansas, 18777-7-70 stop in Louisiana.

Visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Visit 1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia or call 1-800-5224-7-0 in Wyoming. Hope is here. Visit Gamblinghelpline, MA.org, or call 800-327-50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1878-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope NY in New York.